God Damned Fundies!

---

11 Years of HolySmoke


|From: David Ragland
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  ...
|Date: 29 Jan 97  13:15:00
EID:183b 223d69e0
MSGID: 1:3800/49 000ffbbd
LB AS> OTOH, it is clear that God does NOT heed the prayers of the wicked.
LB AS> John 9:31. "Now we know that God heareth not sinners;"

LB MK> By their paradoxes shall ye know them.  You've just made it impossible
LB MK> for sinners to pray for salvation, Al. :-)

LBLOL!!!

LBBeautiful, Hector, simply beautiful...

And just what is "beautiful" about unfounded and caustic derision pray tell?

LB MK> Admit it -- the whole idea of "answered prayer" is silly, and you
LB MK> can't justify it.

LBCertainly not after he's put so much time into 'explaining' why it isn't
LBanswered when it matters.

A sinner praying for salvation is someone trying to change and become a
new creation.  You two are taking what Al said out of context.  What's more,
I think you both know that.  A sinner "sincerely" praying for salvation
will
no longer be a sinner. 2 Corinthians 5:17: Therefore if any man be in Christ,
he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are
become new.  (also reference the sinner's prayer in Romans!)  A sinner
assaying to enter the doorway to salvation is a prayer which can be heard
at
any time because of the shedding of the blood of the Lamb of God.  A sinner
praying for a new car with no intention of changing his or her life,
however....   You savvy? Of course you do. ;)

By their paradoxes ye know them... indeed. 

David Ragland
Cogito Ergo I am not politically correct!
---
SLMR 2.1a   If you agree with them, what more can they say?
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|From: Ken Young
|To:   Sally Springett
|Sub:  Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 25 Jan 97  14:11:30
EID:d679 22397160
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32ea5ae2
REPLY: 1:2613/313@ 0a21f0d8
P> Besides, it isn't as if Christians are the only ones against
P> homosexuality..

DW> Yeah, and it isn't as if Nazis are the only ones against Jews,
DW> either, right?

Pa> Well, I must say, you must have a pretty good imagination to
Pa> come up with an analogy like that..  There is a bit of a
Pa> difference between Christians and Nazis, as well as between
Pa> gays and Jews.

SS> I don't think you thought that through before posting your
SS> response. Hatred for those who are "not like us" is still hatred no
SS> matter who is using it as an excuse for his behavior. It seems like
SS> a very good analogy to me.

Actually, it is a horrible analogy.  WHy?  Because Christianity has nothing
to do with hatred, and if one is filled with hatred, I might question his
Christianity..
I hate no one.  Just because I disagree with someone strongly, or even disapprove
of their actions or the way they think, does not mean I hate them.



--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To:   Marilyn Burge
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 25 Jan 97  14:13:46
EID:9b69 223971a0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32ea5b6a
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 e81f2a5b
MB> It's not an oxymoron at all. I think that in a truly free
MB> society, people have the right to be wrong. Without the
MB> freedom to be wrong, there is no freedom at all.

P > I would agree, generally, but when life is concerned, I don't
P > think we can afford to be wrong.

MB> Nonsense! Each of us is wrong about something nearly every day of
MB> our lives. If we are smart, we then learn from the experience.
MB> Being denied the right to make bad decisions does nothing but
MB> deprive us of the chance to learn from life.

YEs, we are human, so we are going to be wrong, from time to time, but when
you are speaking of a life or death situation, you just better be VERY sure
of yourself..

Having the right to be wrong is a great thin, but should we allow that,
if it means another's life is ended?



--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Direct Dialling
|Date: 25 Jan 97  14:16:26
EID:51f0 22397200
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32ea5c0a
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e91df4
KY> A true Christian should be talking with God every day..  Trouble is,
KY> true Christians appear to me a minority more and more.. 

DC> Leaving only you, of course, as the "one true xian".  

Not at all.. There are still several, but seeing how we are in end times,
there obviously would be less true CHristians than there used to be..





--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Idiot postings
|Date: 25 Jan 97  14:18:54
EID:f9ae 22397240
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32ea5c9e
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e92040
-> On 22 Jan 97  20:47:14, Patriot got back to David Worrell 

DC> I see you figured out how to use your alias again, Ken.  

Not really..  That message I posted before the ones where I used my real
name..

DW> little of Christ in it, anyway. If you all were honest, 
DW> you'd change your name to Paulians.

Pa> FIrst, not all Christians think like Paul..  That is why you may see

DC> Of course they do.  All of xianity depends on the teachings of Saul.

DC> Without him, you'd have no dogma to believe.  

Funny, and here, I always thought we were to obey CHrist.. 

And it isn't like he was the only man of God in the Bible..

Pa> Anyway, even if that abbreviation was coined by a Christian, does
Pa> everyone have the same meaning for the abbreviation, as it originally
Pa> was meant? 

DC> There you go again, ignoring the facts and worried about the 
DC> little things.  As to the meaning, they should, as it was 
DC> widespread in the days of the early xian religion.  

Well, "gay" used to mean happy, now it doesn't..  Words do change in their
meaning, as time goes on.



--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To:   Don Martin
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 28 Jan 97  18:53:20
EID:602b 223c96a0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32ee9170
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32e8fb6e
MB> wrong, there is no freedom at all.

Pa> I would agree, generally, but when life is 
Pa> concerned, I don't think we
Pa> can afford to be wrong.

DM>     Right you are! With a global population approaching 6
DM> billion, we had better abort ALL of the little bastards!
DM> We'll have a great deal more latitude for right/wrong
DM> considerations when we get the numbers below 1 billion.

I know most would disagree, but I do not believe there is any population
problem at all.. More like a distribution problem, than one having to do
with over population.



--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To:   Sally Springett
|Sub:  Most Read Book
|Date: 28 Jan 97  18:55:12
EID:24e8 223c96e0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32ee91e0
REPLY: 1:2613/313@ 2ca4509f
SS> Can you point to _anything_ in the Constitution that suggests that
SS> it was meant to found "a Christian government"? No aspect of the
SS> Christian God is mentioned even once in the US Constitution. This
SS> lack is not an oversight but the result of careful thought on the
SS> part of the framers most of whom had quite strong feelings about
SS> keeping religion out of government and government out of religion.

Nope.. I do not claim that the Constitution specifically mentions Christianity.
Though, I will say, I think the Constitution was to a large degree taken
from Christian beliefs.

No, it was no an oversight, but it doesn;t mean Christianity didn't play
a part either.  The forefathers of America wanted it to be a Christian nation,
but at the same time, a nation where one could believe differently, if they
wanted to.

They didn't necessarily want religion and politics to stay completely seperate,but
just didn't want the govt. to be able to force or discourage any religious
beliefs..

SS> As you cast about among the founding documents for something
SS> (anything) to support your thesis do also remember that the
SS> Declaration of Independence was written as a propaganda document
SS> designed to encourage citizens to join the cause of revolution and
SS> was never intended to have force of law.

SO, they never meant what it said in the so called Declaration of Independence?
If they didn't mean it, I doubt it they would have said it.  


Ken

"Either we are one nation under God, or we are one nation under."



--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 28 Jan 97  19:01:54
EID:3529 223c9820
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32ee9372
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org be8f4985
P> DW> Yeah, and it isn't as if Nazis are the only ones 
P> DW> against Jews, either, right?

P>Well, I must say, you must have a pretty good 
P>imagination to come up with an
P>analogy like that..  There is a bit of a difference 
P>between Christians and
P>Nazis, as well as between gays and Jews.

KW> Doesn't take much imagination to see something right there in front
of
KW> you, 'Patriot'.  Why do you spend so much time and energy thinking about
KW> homosexuality, anyway?

No, but it takes a great deal of imagination when it is a fairy tale.. 
WHile I might be able to think of some I have heard of with Judeo Christian
beliefs that one could argue are Nazis, I have never known any personally..
And again,if they are Nazis they cannot be true Christians, as they would
be against the love Christianity is about.

Why think abnout homosexuality?  Maybe because I was replying to what someone
else said..
Also, because I realize it is an unnatural lifestle, that was never meant
to be.


Ken

"I'm not religious, I just love the Lord."



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|From: Ken Young
|To:   Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub:  Andy's on the ropes.
|Date: 28 Jan 97  19:07:06
EID:01c7 223c98e0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32ee94aa
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 97aebb90
P> SQ> assume] killing while, uh, "under the influence."

P> Jd> I thought drinking blood was a christian ritual 
P> Jd> called 'communion'??

P>Nope..  That is all symbolism..

KW> WEll, so much for your bible. . .

My Bible never says that we are eating the flesh or drinking the blood,
when taking part in communion.  It is pretty clear ion the Bible, that that
is purely symbolic.


Ken

"Salvation is what God gives a sinner who knows he cannot justify himself."



--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To:   Joseph Keenan
|Sub:  Celsus
|Date: 28 Jan 97  19:10:38
EID:b0a5 223c9940
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32ee957e
REPLY: 1:273/416.0 2190a56b
P>>Not lying, more like trying..  We are only human, 
P>>and are far from perfect.
>>Yes, Christians should be different from the rest, 
>>at least spiritually.  Bu
>>unfortunately, now and then, CHristians may let 
>>their carnality take over.



JK>         At least in a x-ian mentality was not a body given to them by
JK> their god? Why would a person need a body if not to pleasure the body?
JK>         It seems that x-ians "let their carnality" take over a lot of
JK> the times. Jim Baker even robbed his own church. Jimmy Swagart didn;t
JK> even know what to do with a prostitue. He just sat there and played
with
JK> himself in front of one.

Sure, our bodies are to be used for pleasure, but at the right place and
the right time..  Oh yes, and in the right way.

Of course Christians let their carnality take over, they are human.  Especially
well known ministers, as they are under a lot of pressure, and sometimes
think they can handle it all.

That was, I believe, because Swaggart could not bring himself to cross a
line.  He could only go so far.

As far as Baker goes, I do not know if he was a Christian or not, but how
did he rob the church?  Not like he forced anyone to give him money.


--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 28 Jan 97  19:15:18
EID:9757 223c99e0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32ee9696
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32eb0e18
Jd> It's similar to the difficulty you have in announcing 'I'm a White
Jd> Supremicist" on your arrival here!

P> ANd what makes you think I am a white supremicist?  Because I'm a
P> Christian?

Jd> 'Patriots' anti-immigrant and homo-hatred postings on several BBS's
Jd> leave no doubt. Have you recanted?

Several BBS's?  Do I know you from somewhere else?

I am against homosexuality, but that does not mean I hate gays.  Far from
it.
You mean you hate everyone that might do something or believe something,
that you might disagree with?

Anti-immigrant?  Again, far from it.. ANyone can come to America that wants
to.  What I specifically would be against are ILLEGAL immigrants.

P> Actually, that would be going against the Christian faith.

Jd> Oh?...Christian belief is a prerequisite for membership in the KKK.

Wrong.  They may have some beliefs they got from the Bible, (usually so
they can use it to excuse their actions) but they are not Christian.  I
do believe their violent actions would kind of be against the teachings
of Christ.



--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 28 Jan 97  19:22:00
EID:de0b 223c9ac0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32ee9828
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32eb0e1a
Jd> Well why don't you? Next time, just put the keys in the ignition, and
Jd> slide over to the passenger side, and leave the driving to god.
Jd> Let us know how far you get, idiot.

KY> The body must be ours, but perhaps if we let God guide our
KY> thinking a little more, this would be a better place.

Jd> That's been tried already - the period known as "THE DARK AGES".

Well, what are we in now, the "age of enlightenment?"  

No, actually there was no time when society in general went according to
God's will completely..  Nor will there be, on this earth, anyway..


Ken

"If you don't believe there is a god, just look around you."


--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  Flesh and Blood
|Date: 28 Jan 97  19:25:04
EID:31ab 223c9b20
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32ee98e0
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32eb0e22
-> On 22 Jan 97  17:28:28, Patriot got back to Jan deBoer

Jd> I thought drinking blood was a christian ritual called 'communion'??

Pa> Nope..  That is all symbolism..

Jd> Symbolic of christian cannibilism?


No, but thanks for playing, anyway..
It is symbolic for the sacrifice CHrist made on the cross, so we could be
saved from sin.



--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To:   Rod Swift
|Sub:  2 Corinthians 5:17  (NKJ
|Date: 28 Jan 97  19:40:14
EID:4107 223c9d00
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32ee9c6e
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32e4b882
RS> called to a newness of
ML>  BJ> life.   Our walk as Christians is to conform, 
ML>  BJ> by God's grace and mercy,
ML>  BJ> to this  calling.

ML>      "Called to conform"? Well, so much for that "free will" thing.

RS> Touche... That was a zinger! :)

We are called to "conform," yes, but we still have the free will to do that
or not..


ML>      I've never died; so by your curious brand of "logic", death must
ML>      be meaningless and I can't study it's effects.

RS> He also assumed I'm hostile to Christianity.  I'm not.  I'm a
RS> critic.  There *is a difference* :)  I am actively hostile to the
RS> hostile parts of Christi(ins)anity. :)

You sure seem it to me..  SO then, am I just a critic when it comes to the
things I disagree with?

Hostile?  I keep hearing this, yet no one can gives me examples..  


Ken

"In case of rapture, this line will be free."


--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
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|From: Ken Young
|To:   Rod Swift
|Sub:  Cheese Whiz
|Date: 28 Jan 97  23:45:00
EID:b019 223cbda0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32eed5cc
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32e5d6d8
RS>  * On 27-12-96 at 09:34, NATE COOKSON wrote to SALLY SPRINGETT,
RS>    on the topic of "Cheese Whiz" in echo Holysmoke:

NC>     ""Abortion stops a beating Heart""

RS> ... so does the death penalty.

AH, but that is ending the life of the guilty..  Abortion is killing the
innocent.  A bit of a difference there..

RS> ... so does killing a {gay person/witch/heretic/atheist/doctor}
RS> for your god...

I would agree with you there..  Fortunately, I do not know anyone that would
kill any of those people, just because of the labels you gave them above.




--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   All
|Sub:  Quote
|Date: 30 Jan 97  11:12:29
EID:7d91 223e598e
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0f0b10e0
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32eddd1e
PID: FM 2.02
I wasn't lying - I just didn't have the stats right there next
to me, okay? - Jonathan Fingas

  When caught lying for his gods about the death cult's membership,
what's his "defense?"  No, he wasn't lying, he was just mouthing off his
master's preprogramming.

~*~  God never intended for there to be sex with the same race. - Steve
Lew

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890


|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Don Martin
|Sub:  Hypocritical fundy death cultists
|Date: 30 Jan 97  11:18:11
EID:fd12 223e5a45
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0f0b10e1
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32eddd1f
PID: FM 2.02
JF> It's just that fanatics use those teachings (usually in
JF> selective, ignorant snippings) as a facilitator.

dm> Nobody says that fanatics are logical thinkers. I _do_ say that
dm> fanatics are a danger to civil society, and that their antisocial
dm> behaviors are rooted in their delusional belief systems.

Ask the fuck if he wears mixed fibres, cuts his hair, has ever had a female
teacher, or eats pork.  Talk about selecting what fundies will and won't
obey.

dm> Those who attempt to stuff their fallacious leaps from "ANY" to
dm> "ALL" into the mouths of others are, in my humble opinion, lying
dm> sacks of shit.

This guy could almost be Staal using another alias.

~*~  "assassinating his character"? Goat, man, his
character has committed SUICIDE. [snicker] - Preston Simpson

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890


|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Uh, um not a Fundy, I just talk like one
|Date: 30 Jan 97  16:21:31
EID:15dc 223e82af
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0f101f7d
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32eeb6b2
PID: FM 2.02
JF> In my own home, there are even more examples that I'm not
JF> fundamentalist.  I wouldn't play games like Diablo (which has
JF> pentagrams and demons aplenty); I wouldn't watch some of the TV shows
JF> I do, like The X-Files; I wouldn't listen to some rock music. You're
JF> proving just how little you know or understand.

  For some reason he elected not to include the fact that he's
a lying bastard incapable of understanding even the simplest of science.

He's a fundy.  His need to forget little details and his inability to learn
what his paper idol actually says is obvious.

dc> Pentagrams and demons must be evil!  He can't control them.
dc> Let's all hide from the next computer game that comes out!
dc> Quickly, or they'll see your shadow and follow!

Pretty sick, yes.  Freud got it right when he considered deity oriented
occultism a mental condition requireing therapy to overcome.

JF> How do you know what happens in my home?  You're either a
jf> stalker, or you're just trying to pad your ego.

dc> Can Jonathan understand the word, 'paranoid'?

It wouldn't surprise me if he's just a 14-year-old whos mommy doesn't know
he's on the computer and whos daddy just doesn't care.

~*~  "The residential apartment complex's first floor was leveled in the
earthquake...crushing many penises in the process." - Steve Rose

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  Critial thinking did it, Al
|Date: 30 Jan 97  16:36:09
EID:5ad6 223e8484
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0f101f7e
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32ef919d
PID: FM 2.02
AS> I know the dark ages well, Jan.

jd> Obviously - mentally, you're still in them!

He and his fellow death cultists are working hard to bring about the next
one.

AS> I also knew who led us out of them. And why.

jd> Oh, DO tell us, Al.....

It was critical thinking which brought about the end to the last Dark Age.

~*~  The wheels of scientific inquiry and discovery
are greased by caffeine. - Marty Leipzig

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890


|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   David Ragland
|Sub:  ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 30 Jan 97  16:40:30
EID:ca78 223e850f
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0f101f7f
REPLY: 1:3800/49 000ffbb6
PID: FM 2.02
dr> I agree.  Becke is also overlooking the issue of the sovereignty of
dr> God here, Al.  I mean, if someone is to question His right to make
dr> someone pregnant, then you must also question His right to create us
dr> as He did.

My guess is you know zero about biology and molecular biology.  But then
were you to learn you wouldn't be able to continue being as Christanic death
cultist.

Do you have _any_ idea what "atrophied evolutionary coden sequences" means?

~*~  Besides, I was an atheist infidel; what could I
possibly know about "God"? - Marty Leipzig
Show them the one you carved out of wood. . . . - David Rice

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890


|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Ken Young
|Sub:  Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 30 Jan 97  16:42:33
EID:cc4a 223e8550
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0f101f80
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32ea5ae2
PID: FM 2.02
SS> I don't think you thought that through before posting your
SS> response. Hatred for those who are "not like us" is still hatred no
SS> matter who is using it as an excuse for his behavior. It seems like
SS> a very good analogy to me.

ky> Actually, it is a horrible analogy.  WHy?  Because Christianity has
ky> nothing to do with hatred, and if one is filled with hatred, I might
ky> question his Christianity..

Nearly every race hate organization in the United States is a Christian
organization which meets in Christanic churches.  The KKK, Aryan Nations,
Church of Jesus Christ Christian, all the Identity brand names, the Sword
and the Cross, Mormons, Baptists, Focus on the Family...  they're all hate
organizations, Ken, and every one of them Christian.

Pretending your death cult is anything other than hate is to deny all of
the death cult's history.  That's silly and stupid.

~*~  it's that the power you worship is an inept, defeated, dog.
- Don Geser (A Christian fundy pretending atheists worship the
Christian "Satan" deity construct.)

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Ken Young
|Sub:  Direct Dialling
|Date: 30 Jan 97  16:44:02
EID:4bad 223e8581
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0f101f81
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32ea5c0a
PID: FM 2.02
KY> A true Christian should be talking with God every day..  Trouble is,
KY> true Christians appear to me a minority more and more..

DC> Leaving only you, of course, as the "one true xian".

ky> Not at all.. There are still several, but seeing how we are in end
ky> times, there obviously would be less true CHristians than there used
to
ky> be..

Ah, yes...  The latest "end times..."  about the 7,000th since Paul/Saul
created the death cult.

Perhaps you should actually crack open your paper idol and read what it
says, Ken.  The so-called "Jesus" mythos was made to claim that it would
return within the lifetimes of its followers.

Guess what?  They're all dead.

Every death cultist thought their generation was the "end times," Ken. 
It's ego which makes death cultists want to pretend that the world won't
continue after they themselves die.

Pretty sick, actualy, but then we're talking Christianity here.

~*~  To have an understanding of the universe one doesn't need
scientific technology. - Andrew Conner (A New Age Creationist)

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Why do you NEED to be sav
|Date: 30 Jan 97  00:31:34
EID:c993 223e03e0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 747d5abe
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32eec5fa
On Jan 29 03:37 97, Dan Ceppa of 1:123/67.5 wrote:

DC> Your god has big tits?

More importantly: Do they drag on the floor?



Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  AL'S GOD OF LOVE
|Date: 28 Jan 97  16:59:00
EID:f3bd 223c8760
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-

AS> Y'know, sometimes I think atheists, quite frankly, would PREFER the
AS> OT God, who appears as a pillar of fire at night, who parts the Red
AS> Sea, who hits people with leprosy for questioning their leader. They
AS> would prefer a
AS> powerful but rather heavy-handed God to one who sits back, and hands
AS> us the key to Paradise, points out the door, and waits for us to use
AS> the key ourselves.

I know I would. If there just HAS to be such a thing, I want Him
out in the open, not -maybe- hiding in the shadows waiting to bite
me when I die.




... "Taglines: Your last chance to really piss off the other guy!"
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO  (303) 421-7186  V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  ASK AND YE SHALL RECE
|Date: 28 Jan 97  17:02:00
EID:beef 223c8840
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-

AS> Nope. I've had prayers which I THINK were answered...but I'm saying
AS> the sort of miraculous stuff that some here are demanding. And also
AS> trying to reason from what the NT says...

Al, that's called rationalisation. You're looking for -any- way
to make sense out of nonsense.

Next you'll be joining the ICR....



... I tried to drown my problems but they can swim.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO  (303) 421-7186  V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  BABY IN CRITICAL COND
|Date: 28 Jan 97  17:07:00
EID:9103 223c88e0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-

AS> But since we know nothing of the afterlife except few hints, we
AS> don't know if there is any sort of preperation needed for the
AS> afterlife. We might mess up things by doing it too soon...

Not even YHVH could blame the children for your actions.

AS> And the ones we kill might have a purpose that God intended them to
AS> complete, which we might foil by killing them...

Giving you the power to thwart God? I doubt it.

AS> And killing corrupts the KILLER, makes them callous...

Beside the point. You're gonna burn for it anyway. This is to
benefit the kids, by assuring them Heaven.

AS> And finally, I'm not killing my kids, and that's that!

Tsk, tsk. Selfish, Al.




... Drop your carrier ... we have you surrounded!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO  (303) 421-7186  V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  BACTERIA AND EVOLUTIO
|Date: 28 Jan 97  17:09:00
EID:5722 223c8920
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-

AS> Because I think the whole reason of existence is for us to learn how
AS> to make moral decisions without being forced to.

RH> Foolish, Al, as long as Hell looms in the background. It only
RH> makes sense under reincarnation.

AS> You may be right.

Ah, another chink in the armor? There's hope for you yet.
The scales over your eyes are softening!



... Fun, fun, fun, 'til her daddy takes her Blue Wave away!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO  (303) 421-7186  V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  MORE GRIST FROM THE W
|Date: 28 Jan 97  17:10:00
EID:03a5 223c8940
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-

AS> What if there is an imprint on the soul that allows the brain to
AS> impress the "mind" on it?

What if your mind was copied into a computer? Would it be YOU
or would it just think it was you?



... Don't worry - Cthulhu LIKES your sense of humor.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO  (303) 421-7186  V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  MORE GRIST FROM THE W
|Date: 28 Jan 97  17:14:00
EID:03a5 223c89c0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-

AS> Odd. I didnt' think we helped sociopaths, but rather, locked them up.
AS> And in some cases execute them.

Did you lose the thread? The idea was that you saw evidence for God in
human actions which have no genetic advantage, such as altruism.

My point was that sociopathy has no genetic advantage either and
thus is evidence for God.

And you showed WHY it has no genetic advantage.

Thanks! Are you convinced then?




... Me.. a skeptic?  I trust you have evidence.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO  (303) 421-7186  V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  MORMONISM IS CHRISTIA
|Date: 28 Jan 97  17:15:00
EID:e5d3 223c89e0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-

RH> I remember seeing it, so it can't have been TOO long ago....

AS> Within the last two weeks?

I don't remember....



___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO  (303) 421-7186  V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  'BIBLE PROPHESY'
|Date: 28 Jan 97  17:53:00
EID:e53f 223c8ea0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Jan Deboer <=-

AS> No, Jan. You can't split it up. You have to read it all together. The
AS> death of say, Joan of Arc, or the Christians killed in the Crusasdes
AS> or the Holy Wars proves nothing. (Or those who died in jihads or any
AS> other religious persausion, as long as they don't claim to have
AS> PERSONALLY witnessed the miracles that started their religion.) But
AS> those who claimed
AS> to have seen such, and were willing to die for it? Or be tortured or
AS> executed? And others, of the same time, who might be able to verify
AS> some details with those in Jerusalem? Yes, I do think it significant.

This confuses me, Al. Why is is any different?

Someone dies for their belief, a belief without evidence.

Someone else dies for their belief in something they claim
to have seen.

What's the difference? The first even had greater faith.

They're both dead.
... If it wasn't for C, we would be using BASI, PASAL and OBOL!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO  (303) 421-7186  V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  BACTERIA AND EVOLUTIO
|Date: 28 Jan 97  18:49:00
EID:5722 223c9620
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Marilyn Burge <=-

MB> Be ye perfect, even as your Father which is in Heaven is perfect.

AS> If we say we are without sin we decieve ourselves, and the truth
AS> is not in us.

Oboy! Dueling quotes! Who has the banjo?

Uh...Al, you just pointed out another biblical contradiction. 




... Reality-ometer:  [\........]  Hmmph!  Thought so...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO  (303) 421-7186  V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  GOD: PSYCHOPATHIC LIA
|Date: 28 Jan 97  19:20:00
EID:a9e7 223c9a80
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Jan Deboer <=-

Jd> Youv'e created your god in your owm image, Al, someone who tries to
Jd> 'put one over' with every conceivable fallacy, false analogy and
AS> verbal trickery.

AS> Then why does the idea of hell still bother me?

Because you still have a shred of human decency left in you?
Because religion has not -totally- rotted your brain yet?

Build on that foundation, Al.



... He's got Blue Wave fever and it's spreading through the message bases!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO  (303) 421-7186  V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To:   Don Martin
|Sub:  NATIVE AMERICANS
|Date: 28 Jan 97  19:50:00
EID:6aab 223c9e40
-=> Quoting Don Martin to Dan Ceppa <=-

RH> the travois will not move backwards.

DM> On the Great Plaines of the U.S., before the Coming of the White
DM> Man, U-turns were permitted.

Pay attention, Don. We were discussing the advantages of the travois.
Not rolling backwards, as a cart will do, is an advantage on rolling
ground.

DC> Such a device does have it's points. (Did I say that?)  But, 
DC> that's why brakes were invented.  

See? HE understood the point.

DM> To help the travois move backward?

But you didn't.




... Pardon Me, But Would You Have Any Blue Poupon?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO  (303) 421-7186  V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To:   Mark Kimes
|Sub:  OF THREATS OF HELL...
|Date: 28 Jan 97  19:54:00
EID:4e44 223c9ec0
-=> Quoting Mark Kimes to Al Schroeder <=-

AS> enough of such instances, even in non-Christian cultures...that the
AS> accumulated evidence for an afterlife experience might be considered
AS> worth investigating.

MK> ROFL!  I guess you aren't aware that they can reproduce NDEs with a
MK> centrifuge, Al?

Really? Reference, please. Seriously, I'm interested.



... I can't believe that out of 100,000 sperm, you were the quickest.  -
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO  (303) 421-7186  V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  OMNI-SADISTIC
|Date: 28 Jan 97  19:57:00
EID:bb88 223c9f20
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Robert Curry <=-

AS> You know, it's odd how some people will castigate simplistic
AS> fallacies in others and not notice it in themselves. Presence doesn't
AS> mean identity. Jesus specifically identifies Himself with the
AS> downtrodden, not the oppressor.

But Al, you started it, by claiming God was experiencing the rape
because of it. Are you retracting omnipresent then?



... Do what you will with this tagline, just don't bother me about it!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO  (303) 421-7186  V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  PROPHESY THIS!
|Date: 28 Jan 97  20:01:00
EID:12c6 223ca020
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Judith Bandsma <=-

AS> Judith, I'm sorry, I can't answer questions about freewill, God, and
AS> the existence of the universe in two sentences. People write books and
AS> books and books about this stuff. It's easy to go...well..."Is not!"
AS> It's harder
AS> to actually answer the question, and not have a simplification which
AS> makes little sense, without expanding it.

Oh hell, Al, I can do it in one sentence.

The first two do not exist and we're still debating the third.

How's that?




... Fun, fun, fun, 'til her daddy takes her Blue Wave away!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO  (303) 421-7186  V.32bis (1:104/251)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Tag that line!
|Date: 27 Jan 97  16:34:00
EID:b315 223b8440
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 32efd83d
TID: GE 1.11+
Making a good die roll, Fredric Rice cast Tag that line! at Jason Harmon
.. and all hell broke loose.

DC> ... "Your weapon of love is making me feel all fuzzy inside."  J
DC> Harmon ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

jh> I've been taglined by God Dan! I finally have a status symbol!

FR> That's step #1.  Next comes getting in the FAQ.  _Then_ you need to
FR> get a curse laid upon you by a fundamentalist -- to "save" you, of
FR> course.  }:-} 
FR> When you get all three tokens, you win an award.  }:-}

You forgot about getting "Mistered" by Staal.

--Wolfie


"HEY!  No step on flowers, stupid ape!"

-Moonspinner
lupus Fianna Galliard
Keeper of the Land, High Park Sept, Toronto


... "I brake for animals; I floor it for Fundies!"
--- GEcho 1.11+
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 246/1002 1 3615/50 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Richard Smith
|To:   ALL
|Sub:  IIIIIIII'mmmmmmmmm bbbbaaaacccckkkk!!!
|Date: 29 Jan 97  21:35:27
EID:4e00 223dac60
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2f0094c0
And just when you thought it was safe to post again.  I've
got a HUGE mail packet ready, since all I have of HS for the
last month was old packets, which I've now scoured clean.
Watch for it in a day or so.

It's nice to be back, btw.  I can't tell you how much I've
missed this place . . .

Quid, Me Anxius Sum?

Richard
Smith

--- timEd 1.01
* Origin: Syr Undry BBS  ):>  Bendigaid  };>  (916) 481-1301 (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Ed Mills
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  Personal jabs
|Date: 29 Jan 97  21:19:00
EID:17e9 223daa60
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 2309e8da
26 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Marty Leipzig to Jan deBoer:

ML> 8.73289174129: the cube root of the Beast
ML> 89.9139703657: the arctangent of the Beast
ML> 999...the Number of the Beast in Australia.

Don't forget-

666F: oven temperature for Roast Beast.
25 or 666 to 4: Chicago tune of the Beast.
Phillips 666: gas station of the Beast.

edweird


... Herbie the sperm turned & shouted, "Go back! It's just a blowjob!"

--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
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SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Ed Mills
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  al debunks apple sauc
|Date: 29 Jan 97  21:30:14
EID:c3b5 223dabc0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 cf17fc52
26 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Marty Leipzig to Don Martin:

DM> "Euripides?"
DM> "No, they just tore by themselves."

LOL!          LOL!LOL!LOL!LOL!  LOL!            LOL!           
LOL!          LOL!LOL!LOL!LOL!  LOL!            LOL!           
LOL!          LOL!        LOL!  LOL!            LOL!           
LOL!          LOL!        LOL!  LOL!            LOL!           
LOL!          LOL!        LOL!  LOL!            LOL!           
LOL!          LOL!        LOL!  LOL!            LOL!           
LOL!          LOL!        LOL!  LOL!            LOL!           
LOL!          LOL!        LOL!  LOL!                           
LOL!LOL!LOL!  LOL!LOL!LOL!LOL!  LOL!LOL!LOL!    LOL!           
LOL!LOL!LOL!  LOL!LOL!LOL!LOL!  LOL!LOL!LOL!    LOL!           

ML>       "This is the story of Oedipus Rex.
ML>       You may have heard of his odd complex.
ML>       His name appears in Freud's index.
ML>       Because he loved his mother."

ML>       "So be kind to your mother,
ML>       take her to lunch, have a chat.
ML>       Or maybe buy her a brand new hat.
ML>       Perhaps you'd better leave it at that.
ML>       Or you'll end up with a rather complex complex,
ML>       Like old Oedipus,
ML>       [I'd rather marry a duckbilled platypus],
ML>       Than be like old Oedipus Rex!"

A young man named Oedipus Rex
Found a babe who exuded pure sex
They ravished each other
'Til they both did discover
The wench was his mother
Now they're total pathological wrecks.

edweird


--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Ed Mills
|To:   DAVID RICE
|Sub:  MAYBE A Change In Plans
|Date: 29 Jan 97  21:41:51
EID:cdf5 223dad20
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 1ac4a881
21 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from DAVID RICE to ALL:

DR> California. That person would pay her ot his expenses
DR> (I cannot afford the fare to send her or him back).

DR> Conversely, if the power boat owner's spouse does not
DR> let him take his boat to Florida, I will be shoving
DR> off to the Marquesas on time, the first or second
DR> week of April 1997.

Since you are obviously doing this just to see how many shades
of green you can turn me, I suppose I should try to get a photo
scanned so I can file attach it and maybe you'll consider the job
finished and stop doing this to me. It freaks people out when I
show up at work the color of guacamole.   :)

edweird


--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Ed Mills
|To:   Quentin Fai
|Sub:  Orion?
|Date: 29 Jan 97  21:50:38
EID:b0db 223dae40
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 d4ac7a66
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 14350133
27 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Marilyn Burge to Quentin Fai:

MB> On (25 Jan 97) Quentin Fai babbled to Judith Bandsma...

QF> I need to glue his leg back on, though. My brother put a box of donuts
QF> on top of my computer, and accidentally knocked him over. I have to
QF> find a more secure place to put him, but he just looks so damned neat
QF> on top of my
QF> computer.

MB> Maybe if you invested in a small package of Play-Doh you could
MB> use four small dollops of it on his feet to get them to "stick"
MB> to the top of your computer.  I'm not positive it would work,
MB> but it seems like it might.

Myself, I'm a heavy consumer of that double-sticky-sided foam tape
for mounting (huh huh) pictures. Keeps the klutz of a cat, Buttwink,
from knocking things all over whenever he has one of his schizoid
spells and suddenly bolts for no fucking reason whatsoever, usually
from whatever place has the most knick-knacks.

edweird


--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To:   Judith Bandsma
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 29 Jan 97  22:09:06
EID:d7fd 223db120
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 ff7444bd
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A7FE162
27 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Judith Bandsma to Jonathan Fingas:

-=> Jonathan Fingas spoke thusly to Don Martin <=-

JF> It shows that you're not intelligent enough to come up with real words
JF> or more useful and valid insults.

JB> May a syphillitic camel give birth to twins in your living room and
JB> mistake you for the afterbirth.

Thanks a pantload. Your aim was just a little off.

Now I've got a bloody mess in my Maytag.

edweird


--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To:   Martin Goldberg
|Sub:  FAQ!
|Date: 29 Jan 97  22:12:04
EID:d130 223db180
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 e9f8cee6
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 745322dd
26 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Martin Goldberg to Ed Mills:

MG> No, you said "stockard" but I layed carol on you just for fun.

EM> The "Stockard" got edited out, for some reason. Not
EM> Carol. Now I have to go puke again.

EM> Did you see "Kingpin?" There's a funny scene where
EM> Harrelson hugs porcelain after screwing his hideous landlady for

MG> I almost never go to movies.

I hardly do, either. VCR.

edweird


--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Ed Mills
|To:   Martin Goldberg
|Sub:  The Fickle Finger
|Date: 29 Jan 97  22:14:54
EID:1785 223db1c0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 82e5672f
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 745332c0
26 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Martin Goldberg to Ed Mills:

EM>          George, I've accepted the Lord as my personal saviour.


MG> I've always wondered what this "personal savior" bullshit was about.

MG> Is it something like a deoderant?

No, it's more like a really humongous Fleet enema.

edweird


--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
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PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Ed Mills
|To:   Mimi Milstein
|Sub:  Hi Ed
|Date: 29 Jan 97  22:19:14
EID:aeee 223db260
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 49d42169
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 2ecc3ed1
27 Jan 97: another heap o' yappin' from Mimi Milstein to Ed Mills:

GM> Hang in there and persevere - there *is* a reward ahead for
GM> all of us who believe in the shed blood of Jesus.

MM> Congratulation Edweird - it worked :-)))

Not quite in time for the last installment of Esquire's "Dubious
Achievement Awards," alas.

I was told to watch out what I prayed for, or I might just get
it. Not me, no sir, uh uh.    :)

edweird


--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: St. Vitus's Dance Studio (1:105/24.12)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 105/24 302 330 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Ken Young
|To:   Damien Wellman
|Sub:  Black lipstick
|Date: 29 Jan 97  17:24:22
EID:e4cb 223d8b00
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32efce16
Pa> to say, sure..  But not like it blasphemes His name or anything..

DW>  Actually, "fuck" has never been much of a vulgarism. The word originated
DW>  on naval vessels. When a sailor was caught unlawfully
DW>  fooling around in port, the reason for punishment was entered in the
log
DW>  as "For Unlawful Carnal Knowledge", or the acronym F.U.C.K. for short.
DW>  Most other words of this sort (piss and shit, for example) have a long
DW>  history as well, going as far back as Chaucer. In fact, the labeling
of
DW>  them as "profanities" is a relatively recent, and mainly American,
DW>  phenomenon.

Pity American society had to go and cheapen a natural act like that..  Does
this mean American society is more obsessed with sex and bodily functions
than other societies?



--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
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PATH: 270/420 415 101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Ken Young
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  Most Read Book
|Date: 29 Jan 97  17:26:10
EID:a7e2 223d8b40
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32efce82
Pa> And if you do your homework, you will discover most of the foundign
Pa> father of the USA, were Christians.. 

ML>      Fleeing from Christian tyranny.

Nope, but nice try..  Rather, they were escaping from religious tyranny.



--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
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PATH: 270/420 415 101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Ken Young
|To:   Becke Boyer
|Sub:  RE: MOST READ BOOK
|Date: 29 Jan 97  17:28:10
EID:a103 223d8b80
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32efcefa
BB>> Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions,
BB>> set up to terrify and
BB>> enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit..." (1)

KY> That is not the church, but rather, manmade churches..  I am speaking
KY> more of Christianity itself..

BB> There is a big difference between a single Christian and a church. At
any
BB> rate, the same quote would apply to Christianity in 
BB> general. Even organized
BB> religion in general. Diety constucts are human inventions, no more or
no
BB> less. Behind the bunnies and white light theology, there are far more
BB> mistanthropic ulterior motives.

Not Christianity in general, but rather, manmade Christianity. In other
words, religious dogma.  True Christianity is another thing entirely..

How do you know that every single diety that has been thought of, has just
been thought of?  Isn't it at least possible that a supernatural being created
all of this?

KY> Actually, I tend to agree..  Many churches could 
KY> be good, but sometimes
KY> when a denomination is involved, they get too big 
KY> for their britches..

BB> What, in particular, is good about churches?? Give me some examples.

Well, seeing as you won't believe so more will get saved, I will give you
other examples..
CHurches often help those in need, whether it be those without food, shelter,
whatever..  Many churches feed the homeless, when there is a disaster, they
will send people to help, and they help the less fortunate around the world,
as well.
ALso, there have been churches to have very successful programs to help
people get out of drugs and alchohol..  One of the most succesful programs
is Teen Challenge, which comes from the Assmeblies Of God,  a Pentecostal
denomination..

Besides all that, even if you don't believe, worship does do a lot of good
for many peoples' spirits..    It uplifts them.

Now, if I may ask, what in particular, is bad about churches?



--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
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PATH: 270/420 415 101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Ken Young
|To:   Becke Boyer
|Sub:  RE: READING INCOMPREHENSI
|Date: 29 Jan 97  17:41:38
EID:55c0 223d8d20
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32efd222
BB> 
BB>> disturb the fundamentalists, who claim to follow the

KY> Actually, of the churches I have been in, it seems that men and women
KY> speak in tounges in church, pretty equally..

BB> Not in any of the tongue speaking churches *I* have been to (mostly
BB> pentecostal and  assemblies of god). I've found, in my 
BB> own observation, that
BB> women did the speaking in tongues 90% percent of the time, and the men
did
BB> the interpretation nearly 100%.

That much?  Was it usually the same women?  
Well, all I can say, is I usually have seen it fairly equally, with women
maybe slightly more, but not by much..
Now, I will say that some are likely just trying to show off, but with many,
it is a very real experience..
Hmm..  Oh well.. The churches I have been in, is seemed men did do the majority
of interpretations, but I would say maybe by 75%.

KY> How is it not following biblical directives?  Paul says women are not
KY> to speak in church.. Well, one could argue that it is not the woman
KY> that is speaking, but God.

BB> Any evidence of this?? Concrete evidence, m'dear.

I said, "one could argue.."   The general belief is that the authors of
the Bible were just tools of God, and they were not the ones that came up
with the stuff..  The same way, one when speaking in church should be really
saying whatever God lies on their heart.

BB>> the woman not to teach or to exercise authority over men...."

KY> What is meant there is that women should be 
KY> careful that they don't let
KY> pride and vanity get the better of them..

BB> And men are not subject to the same standards?? My, my...how misogynistic.

As I said already, though you apparently think is a crock, men and women
are very different.  We may be equal, but with different traits, generally
given to   each of the two sexes..

KY> Men and women obviously were made differently, so doesn't it stand to
KY> reason that they might have different roles in life?

BB> No, it doesn't. The only thing that really sets us apart are genitals.
BB> Feeling threatened because women are moving in on your 
BB> precious "territory"?

SO, men are no more masculine than women?  Women are no more feminine than
men?  Generally, one in each sex, has certain roles to play.

Territory?  I am not exactly the typical guy, so I would actually love to
be the one raising the kids at home, and all of that stuff.  But I know
that usually, that is just not how it is meant to be.

And actually if a woman can do a job usually thought of as a man's job,
better than a man, she is welcome to it, in my book..  However, that is
a very rare situation.

KY> Maybe because it isn't a religion of suppression, 
KY> but rather, a belief
KY> system of freedom.

BB> A system of freedom? What a fucking joke. Where's the freedom in it?

More than anything else, because you have the free will to believe or not..

KY> adults.. That is because they are not fully 
KY> developed, and need time to
KY> find out what type of person they are.  That being the case, someone
KY> needs to make sure they are doing what is right, and to a point,
KY> control them..  AFter all, you wouldn't let a kid do whatever he
KY> wanted, would you?

BB> How the hell are they supposed to find out what type of 
BB> person they are when
BB> someone such as yourself would spend all your time shoving your religious
BB> dogma down their throats?? It wasn't until I was *far* 
BB> away from my parents

Actually, I do not think I would shove my religious beliefs down my kids'
throats, though that would depend upon your definition of "shoving beliefs
down one's throat."  I have found, that often when religion is forced, the
kids turn against it..  
I will tell them how I feel, and what I believe, but the decision will still
be theirs.

There must be an in between.. You need to let your kids be kids and grow
up, but at the same time be there to give them the proper discipline.


BB> that I began to find out who I really am, what I want 
BB> out of life. And who is
BB> to determine what is "right"? "Right" is a very subjective term. What
I
BB> consider right may be something you consider abhorent. 

Keeping that in mind, then you cannot really say that Christianity is definitely
"wrong."

BB> A parent's job is one
BB> more of guidance than of control. You can let your 
BB> child know your thoughts
BB> on something, but in the end, it will be the child 
BB> making the decision, and
BB> the child suffering the consequences of whatever 
BB> decisions they make. That's
BB> how they learn, m'dear. What you are proposing is downright child abuse.

Child abuse?  So, do you believe we shouldn't discipline our children at
all?

It is of control somewhat, I believe..  You just need to know when to let
go of how much control.  Shouldn't a parent have some "control" over her
2-year-old?

BB>> do.

KY> Not all forms of Christianity are as dogmatic as some..  And just
KY> because your step-father greatly abused the Bible 
BB> for his own purposes,
KY> does not mean all Christians are like this.

BB> Yet, my step-father was held up as a shining example of Christianity
while
BB> for his own purposes,

May I ask what type of church, denomination wise this was in?

Well, just because one is accepted, doesn't mean anything about his character.
They may have thought highly of him, but I pretty sure they didn't know
what he was doing, either.





--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
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PATH: 270/420 415 101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Ken Young
|To:   Dave Hamilton
|Sub:  Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 29 Jan 97  18:16:08
EID:a29e 223d9200
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32efda38
REPLY: 1:229/622 32ebf201
KY> Accept it or not, Christianity is about love..  Not quite a Nazi
KY> belief..  

DH> You poor, pathetic, ignorant bastard. You condemn people for grouping
DH> violent xtians in with nonviolent ones. Do you not know enough 
DH> history to realize that in pre-war Germany, Nazi was equivalent
DH> to Republican? 

I never said anything in favor of Republicans, either.

DH> Any decent family, common-sense-oriented voter in Germany that
DH> helped bring Hitler to power would have simply said that as events
DH> unfolded, Hitler and the SS were Not-True-Nazi's. Just like you
DH> with your Not-True-Christian, you sheltered moron.

I would agree that he wasn't a true Christian.  Hitler was an Occultist.



--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
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SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
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PATH: 270/420 415 101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Ken Young
|To:   Martin Goldberg
|Sub:  Exemplifying examples
|Date: 29 Jan 97  18:19:34
EID:6294 223d9260
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32efdb06
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 74534c6e
KY> But God is not human.. He is perfect, and just the fact that many 
KY> of us don't see that, shows how very imperfect the human 
KY> race is.

MG> Perfect?  Why does he starve people to death?

I wasn't aware God did that..  People do that all on their own.

I doubt very much if he is specifically keeping food from people..



--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 270/420 415 101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  So Long
|Date: 23 Jan 97  19:24:00
EID:441d 22379b00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e74a50
* On 27-12-96 at 13:37, AL SCHROEDER wrote to MARTIN GOLDBERG,
on the topic of "So Long" in echo Holysmoke:

AS>  MG> No one need call my wife about his, as she is about to die from
AS>  MG> picking all the almonds out of the mixed nuts again.

AS>  Well, that does it.
AS>  No way a merciful God could allow an abomination like that song.
AS>  I guess I'm going to have to become an atheist...

I wish you would get a wriggle on and denounce your faith and
make a pact with us atheists and agnostics today :) :)

Rod "...you can be just like Michael Hardy, Al" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * A Magick Book that sticks with you: The VELCRONOMICON

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Judith Bandsma
|Sub:  The steve winter faq [
|Date: 23 Jan 97  19:28:02
EID:1413 22379b80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e74b42
* On 21-12-96 at 19:52, JUDITH BANDSMA wrote to DON MARTIN,
on the topic of "The steve winter faq [2/2" in echo Holysmoke:

JB> And Concentric has him by the balls with their counter-suit because
all
JB> they need is just what they have...copies of his posts from about 40
JB> different sources, and his own agreement to their terms of service.
The
JB> reason they aren't caving in and paying him off is because they know
JB> they are right and it will essentially bankrupt him when it goes to
court.

JB> When that happens, Stevie's going to be too broke to afford the stamps
for
JB> snail mail and I doubt if ANY ISP in the country would take a chance
on
JB> him. It will be justice to see him get himself thrown out of the computer
JB> community from his own actions.

I have one fear...

He'll then scream "martyr" and his bleating sheep followers will
bankroll him further :(

Maybe we can get a court order to enforce a cancelbot against any
Steve Winter posts :)

Rod "...the moron deserves to be removed from the net for a
loooong time" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * C programmer run, C programmer crash, C programmer quit.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  the other shoe
|Date: 23 Jan 97  19:47:06
EID:188d 22379de0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e74fba
* On 29-12-96 at 11:47, AL SCHROEDER wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "the other shoe" in echo Holysmoke:

AS>  August 13th? I wondered about you complimenting me for something months
AS>  ago. Now you are castigating me for it, too?

I never complimented you :)

AS>  I notice you are also doing
AS>  similar things to Marilyn and others. And people thought _I_ must have
a
AS>  lot of time...you are going back and reading Holy Smoke for MONTHS
back?

Actually, no.  I've been too busy to get back to the packets :)

AS>  RS> This melodramatic clap-trap still does not validate the fact that
AS>  RS> you deprived David of his LIBERTIES of choice and control over
AS>  RS> his own affairs.

AS>  RS> Your interference meant you played god with another person's
AS>  RS> life, and now the lives of a number of people.  You have lost all
AS>  RS> respect earned in the views of others because of your unethical
AS>  RS> behaviour.

AS>  RS> If you had done this same thing to me, I would be castigating you
AS>  RS> further than I am now.

AS>  RS> What right did you have to play God?  What right did you have for
AS>  RS> YOUR choices to override David's choices?  What right did you
AS>  RS> have to usurp David's decisions and choices and institute your
AS>  RS> own?

AS>  RS> What right did you have in telling others about David, rather
AS>  RS> than David doing it on his own time, and in his own way -- if
AS>  RS> necessary at all?

AS>  RS> Now, after answering all those questions, reanswer them
AS>  RS> substituting "RESPONSIBILITY" for "RIGHT"

AS>  RS> You will find you are NOT responsible for David's life,
AS>  RS> happiness, or choices.  Ergo, you should not override them.

AS>  RS> Your actions are an insult to all other humans who value their
AS>  RS> freedom, Al.

AS>  RS> Rod "... if you'd abused my freedoms and choices the way you have
AS>  RS> done with David, I'd not be wanting to commit suicide anymore,
AS>  RS> but retribution..." Swift :(

AS>  Rod. While you're looking through old posts, look for one that ends
with
AS>  me saying, "As far as I'm concerned, the 'Other Shoe' is DROPPED."
AS>    I could comment about a lot of things. But the key to it was two
AS>  misunderstandings or misassumptions...I assumed an individual knew
more
AS>  about the matter than they did, and a different individual assumed
I knew
AS>  more about another matter than I did.

I see it as a plain case of you being a nosey person :)  I find
this an outrageous thing.  I also tried to stay away from the
Rice issue, and move towards a pre-emptive warning -- don't mess
with my private life.

AS>    Neither will be explicitedly laid out to you. The matter is dropped.

Too bad.  You could have learned from it.

AS>  No other posts concerning the matter will EVER be responded to by me.
You
AS>  have not the information to understand, and I by no means am going
to give
AS>  it.

What else could we expect from fundies...  No disproof of our
lack-of-beliefs :)  Spoiled brat, take the ball, bat and
homeplate... Go on... bye!

Take a powder already!

AS>  I am only responding to you NOW because it was before your time here,
AS>  and you may not have come across that post yet. Nor will I respond
to it
AS>  from anyone else.

Don't make silly assumptions.  I was reading for months before I
posted :)

AS>    I notice in another post you accused me of "sucking up" to you.

You were all over me, delving for personal information, no doubt
for your dossier on me :)

AS>    Now, if you will excuse me, I will go back to reading the article
about
AS>  TIME's man of the year.

I love you, Al.  Honestly.  All you have to do is give up your
delusional religion :)

Rod "...we do, honestly" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Database administrators do it with their relations.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Ha!
|Date: 23 Jan 97  19:49:08
EID:ed89 22379e20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e75034
* On 29-12-96 at 02:40, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:

JS> On (21 Dec 96) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...

JS>  RS> On 11-08-96 at 20:14, JIM STAAL wrote to RICHARD SMITH:

JS>  RS> Bullshit.  Many ex-Davidians had reported the acts perpetrated
JS>  RS> inside the cult's ranks.  There'd even been quite indepth
JS>  RS> journalist reports into the cult's activities, the division and
JS>  RS> rift that formed that led Vernon Howell to the leadership of the
JS>  RS> cult and the ousting of previous cult leaders, etc, etc.

JS> But there was no proof.

You say that so boldly.  Wasn't there a congressional
investigation?

Rod "...oh, that's not evidence.  It's not in your bible (which
alternates, probably, between the Holy Bible, and the guidebook
issued by the Michigan Militia, no?)" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Nuke a godless homeless commie gay baby whale for Christ!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  My Summer Weekend
|Date: 23 Jan 97  19:50:10
EID:3b03 22379e40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e75072
* On 29-12-96 at 02:42, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:

JS> JS> They have the right, but I do agree that the government cannot legislate
JS> JS> morality, and that, inasmuch as it does no harm to someone else,
the
JS> JS> country wouldl be better off financially if the drug laws were relaxed
JS> JS> in regards to use and possession.

JS>  RS> So you believe that all laws against criminalising the sexual
JS>  RS> acts of gay people practiced in private settings should be also
JS>  RS> removed?

JS> Are there still any enforced? Either way, yes, it is their business.

Yes, it is on the books in about 2 dozen states :)  Didn't you
know this, Jimson?

JS>  RS> How about the removal of bans against recognising same-gender
JS>  RS> marriages as legally binding unions in civil law?  Or will gay
JS>  RS> people of religion (and irreligion, who wish civil marriage) be
JS>  RS> still denied their religious and/or civil freedoms?

JS>  Nope. Please post a duly recognized definition of marriage.

So you believe in sexual freedom, but not relationship freedom,
for gay and lesbian people?  How do you explain this
contradiction?

Rod "...isn't it 'their business'?" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Rotisserie: A ferris wheel for chickens!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Goodbye  /1           02
|Date: 23 Jan 97  19:51:12
EID:79d6 22379e60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e750b0
* On 29-12-96 at 02:45, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Goodbye  /1" in echo Holysmoke:

JS> JS> I must say you must live on a pink cloud to have let yourself been
delud
JS> JS> by these women. Their general purpose here has been clear to me
from the
JS> JS> beginning: they hate men in general, and Christian men in particular.

JS>  RS> They're FEMINAZIS huh?

JS> AMEN! Preach on, my brother. (tic)

This is what I like about you Jim.  You're so vacuous.  If you
don't know what it means, look it up in the dictionary, Mr
Erudite :)

Rod "...praise Jesus, himbo" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Death: to stop sinning suddenly.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Your Daily Brother Jim
|Date: 23 Jan 97  19:52:14
EID:3d55 22379e80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e750ee
* On 29-12-96 at 02:45, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Your Daily Brother Jim" in echo Holysmoke:

JS>  RS> Isn't fire a defoliant?  Use that :)

JS>  RS> Are you willing to admit that Agent Orange was used for more
JS>  RS> destructive purposes such as enemy anti-personnel attacks?

JS>  RS> Then again, this is exactly the sort of stuff that makes me think
JS>  RS> you're head isn't filled with brain cells.  In fact...

JS> Whatever...my question is where do you dig up these ancient jposts?

But you didn't answer the question, Jim, about defoliants :)
And they were from packets I didn't have a chance to get to until
November/December :)

Rod "...saving is erstwhile :)" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Person+delusion=psychosis.  People+delusion=religion.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Goodbye  /1
|Date: 23 Jan 97  19:54:16
EID:a831 22379ec0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e75168
* On 29-12-96 at 02:46, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Goodbye  /1" in echo Holysmoke:

JS> JS>...Mom said carrots are good for my eyes, but it hurts when I insert
'em.

JS>  RS> Didn't your mother tell you they were good for haemorrhoids?
JS>  RS> Start shoving away... Trust me, it doesn't hurt at all :) :)

JS> Ahhh  you are correct!
JS> ... I want to take the Crash Course In Brain Surgery...

You're a silly one, Jim :) :)

Your degree from Calvin College that you never achieved was a
major in English and proctology, right?

Rod "...'nuff said" Swift ;)

* OLX 2.1 TD * If it doesn't work, it's physics.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Educational Experienc
|Date: 23 Jan 97  19:58:18
EID:f601 22379f40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e7525a
* On 29-12-96 at 02:48, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Educational Experienc" in echo Holysmoke:

JS> JS> JS> JS> You were in Vietnam?
JS> JS> JS> DC> If he was, it was _Viet Nam_, "English Major".
JS> JS>  KS> JS>So what has that to do with speaking/spelling Gook, eh?
JS> JS>  KS> You really are an asshole.
JS> JS>  JS> You really get to be at a loss for words, don't you?
JS> JS>  rs> he's right, you racist asshole.

JS> JS> Racist? In what manner?

In the fact it is perjorative.

JS>  RS> Can you please explain the context and meaning of the word "gook"
JS>  RS> as you have used it above?

JS> No problem: Vietnamese language. That should be obvious.

Actually, it is not obvious.  However, given this "admission" of
yours, do you still admit that it is a perjorative term against
an ethnics group's language, and hence the ethnic group?

Isn't saying "gook" in the context you claim the same as saying:
"Those people speak 'nigger'"?  That is, still perjorative?

JS>  RS> Did you use it as a perjorative against people of Asian ethnicity?

JS> Not by any means.

Did you realise it is implied, and that you really should
apologise and use proper English?

Hey, and aren't you an English language major?  You should know
better.

JS>  RS> If you did, you're a racist asshole :)
JS>  RS> If you did NOT, please do tell us how you did mean to use it! :)

JS> See above...

We've still deduced whether it was describing a Vietnamese
person, or a Vietnamese person's language, it is perjorative!

Rod "...squirm if you must, Jim, but you really should apologise"
Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * "Bones!  That, feels, wonderful, yes!"  "It's head, Jim!"

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  wisdom
|Date: 23 Jan 97  19:59:20
EID:7cd0 22379f60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e75298
* On 29-12-96 at 03:08, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "wisdom" in echo Holysmoke:

JS>  RS> I'm the mortal enemy of alt.org.promisekeepers.  The PromiseFilth
JS>  RS> in that newsgroup don't like dissenting opinion -- to the point
JS>  RS> of cancelling my posts...

JS> Poor baby. Maybe if your arguments dealt with fact instead of some Fred
JS> Rice preconcieved bull shit, it might be different.

Oh, I'm in league with Fred Rice now?  For the record, I was
posting such wonderful things as news reports about the
Promisefilth, and their abusive and violent attendees :)

Rod "...*bwahahahah*  I take that as a compliment, by the way!" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Beam me up Scotty.  There's no intelligent life here!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Ha!
|Date: 23 Jan 97  20:01:22
EID:ed89 2237a020
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e75312
* On 29-12-96 at 03:09, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:

JS> On (21 Dec 96) Rod Swift wrote to Karl Schneider...
JS> RS> On 16-08-96 at 07:58, KARL SCHNEIDER wrote to JIM STAAL:

JS> JS>Thank you. Basically, it consists of visiting a discusting place
(the
JS> JS>police station), getting a form, researching the court dockets of
1978

JS> KS> Ah.  The police station is a disgusting place.
JS> KS> But you hang out in biker bars.
JS> KS> Figures.

JS> RS> You have a better chance of getting some rough 'n' ready sex from
JS> RS> the Blue Oyster bar than the local cop shop :) :)

JS> Yeah, like I go there with my wife (on vacation) to find rough n ready
JS> sex.  get real, will ya?

Jim, you should try it once in a while.  It's better than Wilbur,
the branding irons, and you being Mr Ed :)

Rod "...yeeeowch!  Better make that the Hellfire Club!" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Paranoia is *total* awareness!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Richard Smith
|Sub:  Educational Experienc
|Date: 23 Jan 97  20:02:24
EID:4e20 2237a040
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e75350
* On 30-12-96 at 15:29, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Educational Experienc" in echo Holysmoke:

RS>   js> Racist? In what manner?

RS>  Duh!

He is that dumb... :)

RS>  RS> Can you please explain the context and meaning of the word "gook"
RS>  RS> as you have used it above?
RS>   js> No problem: Vietnamese language. That should be obvious.

RS>  Has anyone pointed out to Jimson that the word `gook' is not
RS>  part of the Vietnamese language?

Yes.

RS>  He's a fucking bigot, period.

Perjorative to the maximum, Richard.

Rod "...he should apologise and recant" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * I'm not dead.  I am metabolically challenged.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  My Summer Weekend
|Date: 23 Jan 97  20:03:26
EID:9887 2237a060
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e7538e
* On 25-12-96 at 00:03, LYNDA BUSTILLOZ wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:

LB>  DC>  JS> S'matter, Danny-boy? Wake up on the wrong side of the cot?

LB>  DC> No, dickhead.  I'm tired your fucking whining.

LB>  RS> He needs some nice gouda to go with his w(h)ine, Dan.  :) :)
LB>  RS> And I'm sure you're the type of man who is willing to take that
LB>  RS> gouda and feed it to Jimmy....

LB> But...I thought atheist didn't DO any gouda things!

Praise Cheeses, Sister Lynda :)

Rod "... and pass the communion salsa and chips!" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Psychoceramics - the study of crackpots!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  My Summer Weekend
|Date: 24 Jan 97  15:24:28
EID:3b03 22387b00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e863ac
* On 30-12-96 at 22:51, JIM STAAL wrote to STEVE QUARRELLA,
on the topic of "My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:

JS>  SQ> Staal is so cute when he's showing his machismo.  I bet he wears
his
JS>  SQ> wife's underwear.

JS> Tried a bit of that back in the late 70's. The cups were too big and
the
JS> underwire cut into my pecks. :) The little stretch girddle thingey
JS> (fashionable in the early 70') however, with a proper crotch cutout,
was
JS> kinda fun.

You know, you and Steingrobe would make an excellent au pair :)
After all, he's the one bemoaning that if there is anyone that
likes to "wear dresses" and the rest of feminine attire in the
#holysmoke chat channel, or here, it'd be me.

Rod "...I'm surprised he didn't pick, say, one of the females :)" Swift
:)

* OLX 2.1 TD * The real world is a special case.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  [2/2] oh wells
|Date: 24 Jan 97  15:26:30
EID:0bff 22387b40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e86426
* On 29-12-96 at 16:25, LYNDA BUSTILLOZ wrote to CURTIS JOHNSON,
on the topic of "[2/2] oh wells" in echo Holysmoke:

LB>  CJ> Meanwhile, he constitutionally *cannot* let the Curry
LB>  CJ> e-mail thing die (has Al ever let a thread die a natural death?)

LB> Nope.

LB>  CJ> and Rod Swift has just revived his Rice Brothers fiasco.

LB> hehe...which will only get him all righteously offended at Kat, Judith
and I
LB> again.  Sprinkle sprinkle sprinkle..

I told you that I was working on my harpy nomination :)

Or maybe we need a new category for the fairer gender (namely
males :) called hellions :)

Rod "...I'd like to be one of the two :)" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * I ain't broke, but I'm badly bent.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Richard Smith
|Sub:  I KNEW it!
|Date: 24 Jan 97  15:27:32
EID:4323 22387b60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e86464
* On 30-12-96 at 15:26, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "I KNEW it!" in echo Holysmoke:

RS>   };> Jimson Staalin wrote in a message to Rod Swift <:(

RS>  js> ... Mom said carrots are good for my eyes, but
RS>  js>     it hurts when I insert 'em.

RS>   RS> Didn't your mother tell you they were good
RS>   RS> for haemorrhoids?  Start shoving away... Trust
RS>   RS> me, it doesn't hurt at all :) :)

RS>  js> Ahhh  you are correct!

RS>  LOL . . . the truth is finally out, as is Jimson . . .

BINGO! :)

Rod "...now, to enter him into the pride parade with his
'carrots' :)" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Let's support Less Characters sent in Echoes Year 1997!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Richard Smith
|Sub:  Tagline!
|Date: 24 Jan 97  15:29:34
EID:6ce0 22387ba0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e864de
* On 30-12-96 at 15:36, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Tagline!" in echo Holysmoke:

RS>   };> Jimson Staalin wrote in a message to Rod Swift <:(

RS>  js> Yeah, like I go there with my wife (on vacation) to find
RS>  js> rough n ready sex.  get real, will ya?

RS>  I swear, there's a tagline there someplace . . . 

RS>  ... I go there with my wife to find rough n ready sex.  -J. Staalin

I wanna know where he goes when they are not on vacation, for
that rough n ready sex :)

Rod "...either way, it's definitely FAQ material :)" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Any closet is a walk-in closet if you try hard enough.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Richard Smith
|Sub:  Smegma Staalin
|Date: 25 Jan 97  18:00:36
EID:208a 22399000
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9d9c4
* On 30-12-96 at 15:38, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Smegma Staalin" in echo Holysmoke:

RS>   RS> Have you heard the rumor that the Mormons, aided by the
RS>   RS> Promise Keepers, are planning on organizing another million
RS>   RS> man march on Washington?

RS>  js> No. That _fact_ is, that Promise Keepers is organizing the
RS>  js> first million man march on Washington.
RS>      ^^^^^

RS>  ROFLMGDAO . . . gads, I don't have the heart to tell the lil'
RS>  feller . . .  . . .

Well, in Jimson's world, black people probably don't exist :)  Neither
do gay people probably.  Both those groups have had marches of more
than 500,000 in Washington :)

RS>  You know, you just can't buy entertainment like this.

That's why it should be in the FAQ :)

Rod "...praise Jesus, and pass us the laughbarrel :)" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * The best prophet of the future is the past.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Carl Pollock
|Sub:  Re: Pray Contest
|Date: 24 Jan 97  15:32:38
EID:8cd5 22387c00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e86596
* On 30-12-96 at 18:18, CARL POLLOCK wrote to RICHARD SMITH,
on the topic of "Re: Pray Contest" in echo Holysmoke:

CP>  RS@> Which God would that be?

CP> The God which BILLIONS around the world love and trust.

Oh, Buddha? :) :)  Gotta love all those Asian worshippers :)

CP>  RS@> Don't worry . . . we'll use brand new shiny prayers.

CP> That's not funny

Yes it is.  Burn an incense stick, boy-o!

CP>  RS@> Why does your Deity want children to starve or burn to death?

CP> "And we know that ALL things work togeather for the good of
CP> those who love him,
CP> who have been called accrding to his purpose." Romans 8:28, NIV

So killing kids or starving them (either of the options offered
to you) is a *good work* for the Lord!?

My, that's nearly as good as a "BIG WIN!" for the scientologists!  :)

CP> Sencerly,
CP>     Carl Pollock

Rod "...if only you had some sence (sic)" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Clean mind, clean body.  Take your pick.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   David Rice
|Sub:  Gawd was wrong?
|Date: 24 Jan 97  15:35:40
EID:2d89 22387c60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e8664c
* On 28-12-96 at 21:32, DAVID RICE wrote to ALAN HESS,
on the topic of "Gawd was wrong?" in echo Holysmoke:

DR> AH> Let me get this straight - God is supposed to
DR> AH> be perfect. This perfect god gives a set of
DR> AH> laws to man. 2,000 years ago, this perfect god
DR> AH> allegedly sent a man to tell his people, "I was
DR> AH> wrong - you don't have to obey my original
DR> AH> perfect laws any more.  Here's a new set from
DR> AH> me that supercede the perfect laws I originally
DR> AH> gave you. My son is here to tell you the new
DR> AH> laws, as well as which of the old laws you should
DR> AH> still follow. His followers will clarify everything
DR> AH> in their books."

DR> In the Bible Jesus said he was not come to change the
DR> law (convenant with the chief Hebrew god Yahweh). But
DR> then, of course, he is said to do so---- the Bible
DR> has it both ways.

But that was God's plan.... So his hypocritical followers could
point to OT laws and condemn others.  Then when they suffer from
the ol' "do not judge others, lest they judge you" crap, they
hide behind lies like "Jesus came to save us from the OT laws".

What a bunch of hypocritical nasties they are.

Rod "...you're right on the money, David.  Don't ever let the
Jeezoids get away with it" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Brain over.  Insert coin.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   George Mooth
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 24 Jan 97  15:42:42
EID:991d 22387d40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e867f2
* On 22-12-96 at 12:40, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:

GM>                        PEACE ON EARTH

... will be achieved when we eliminate all hostile, xenophobic,
conquering religions.  Islam and Christianity should be the first
to go, along with the Scientologists!

GM>                      NO GOD, NO PEACE;
GM>                    KNOW GOD, KNOW PEACE.

And our motto will be:
NO GOD, KNOW PEACE
KNOW GOD, NO PEACE

Rod "...ours also has equal line lengths, so *nyah* :)" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * He's your God, they're your rules, YOU burn in hell!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   George Mooth
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 24 Jan 97  15:44:44
EID:991d 22387d80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e8686c
* On 23-12-96 at 11:33, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:

GM>                    WHILE THE WORLD SLEEPS

... there are probably hundreds of paedophilic clergy doing the
ol' horizontal tap-dance with some kids.

GM>                  THE BEST GIFT IN THE WORLD
GM>                   WAS WRAPPED IN A MANGER.

I thought the best gifts in the worlds came wrapped in condoms?  :)

Rod "...I dunno.  Maybe you should ask those sicko priests if
they are using protection..." Swift :(

* OLX 2.1 TD * Did you expect mere proof to sway my opinion?

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   George Mooth
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 24 Jan 97  15:45:46
EID:991d 22387da0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e868aa
* On 24-12-96 at 11:39, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:

GM>                          EARTH WALK

... actually, it orbits, but what else could you expect from
someone who believes in a book which states pi = 3.0 and the
world is flat with four corners, and the sun goes around the
Earth... *guffaw*

GM>                  GOD MADE HIS HOME WITH US
GM>            THAT WE MIGHT MAKE OUR HOME WITH GOD.

Isn't that nice...  What if I don't want to live with this
sycophantic, didactic moron?

Rod "...huh, what then?" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * If Jesus loves me, why does he never send flowers?

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   George Mooth
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 24 Jan 97  15:46:48
EID:991d 22387dc0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e868e8
* On 25-12-96 at 11:29, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:

GM>                    BETTER THAN HAPPINESS

GM>               HAPPINESS DEPENDS ON HAPPENINGS;
GM>                    JOY DEPENDS ON JESUS.

I thought joy would depend on joy.

It is truly sad that religious types can't feel joyous in their
lives without an external imaginary being.

Rod "...sad... truly sad." Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't believe in miracles, expect them.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   George Mooth
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 24 Jan 97  15:48:50
EID:991d 22387e00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e86962
* On 26-12-96 at 11:23, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:

GM>                          "I FORGOT"

... a common excuse when religiods are asked to provide evidence
for what they say.

Other excuses include "the dog ate my evidence", "I left my
evidence at home, miss", and "the cat used my evidence as toilet
training paper".

GM>         DAILY BLESSINGS ARE DAILY REMINDERS OF GOD.

I have a daily blessing, just after I wake up in the morning.  It
reminds me of God too as I flush.

Rod "...*splooosh* *glug glug* another high-quality
crap-for-Jesus :)" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Rap is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   George Mooth
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 24 Jan 97  15:49:52
EID:991d 22387e20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e869a0
* On 27-12-96 at 11:41, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:

GM>                      SIN'S DEADLY WAGES

Sin should get a new job at a workplace that doesn't endanger
his/her health.

GM>                      TO GET TO HEAVEN,
GM>                IT'S WHO YOU KNOW THAT COUNTS!

Pat Robertson?  Ralph Reed?  Jerry Falwell?  Lou Sheldon?  James
Kennedy?  They all sell "Get into heaven free cards" as part of
your *lovegift* to their ministries :)

Rod "... I know those morons.  Do I get into heaven free now?" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Diplomacy: The patriotic art of lying for one's country.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   George Mooth
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 24 Jan 97  15:50:54
EID:991d 22387e40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e869de
* On 28-12-96 at 11:29, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:

GM>                       CONFIDENT PEOPLE

... don't have Jesus.

GM>            WORRY ENDS WHERE FAITH IN GOD BEGINS.

... no, dear boy.  THINKING ends where FAITH IN GOD begins.

Rod "...silly Christian" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves.  Not on my salary he doesn't.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  jesus needed...
|Date: 25 Jan 97  17:37:56
EID:ff08 22398ca0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9d474
* On 27-12-96 at 22:24, JIM STAAL wrote to CURTIS JOHNSON,
on the topic of "jesus needed..." in echo Holysmoke:

JS> CJ>>     Aha.  I think we've arrived at your real reason for
JS> CJ>>  believing he had to have a penis.
JS> CJ>>     Also interesting is your phrasing, which seems to indicate
JS> CJ>>  that you think the penis is the man, hang the rest.

JS> JS> Not by any means. I was never the dude who was led around by his
dick.
JS> JS> I'm rather bashful in the shower room, as a matter of fact. To even
JS> JS> think such a thing would be as bad as judging a chick by the size
of her
JS> JS> hooters.

JS> CJ>  Mr. English Major from Calvin College, you wrote "being a
JS> CJ>   _man_ a penis is . . . "

JS> Necessary for gender indentification, as in: It's a boy!

Can you spell hermaphrodite?  Gender dysphoria?

JS>  CJ>  We've established that Jesus did not need a penis to piss.

JS>  What was He supposed to do? Spit out the urine?

So women don't urinate?

JS>  CJ>  And just who do you shower with that you're bashful?

JS>  I was referring to 'public' shower rooms, like the gym, dude...

So not only you go to leather biker bars, you're now cruising the
gym.  You're a 100% A-Grade gay slut, Jim :)

Rod "...admit it, Jimbozo" Swift

* OLX 2.1 TD * Yogi Bear was a nudist buddhist.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 25 Jan 97  17:38:58
EID:c45c 22398cc0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9d4b2
* On 29-12-96 at 02:52, JIM STAAL wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "Oops, Caught Again" in echo Holysmoke:

JS> iJS> No, I believe the doctor was saying very clearly that 'Gwenny
JS> iJS> beating' is OK if the Gwenny (and she does) have a 'smart A** mouth.
JS> iJS> Nothing to do with wives in general. Gwenny in particular.

JS>  FR> You Promise Keeper cultists are truely sickening, you know that,
Jim?

JS> Nope.

Please elucidate your policy on women who are insolent with
verbal attacks, dear boy :)

JS>  FR> Your Christian evil disgusts me.

JS> And your refusal to recognize the truth of God is disgusting to me.

Cry us a river, little bitchling :)

Rod "....wahhh!" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Participate in Throw a Christian to the Lions Year 1997!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  execute her ?
|Date: 25 Jan 97  17:43:00
EID:ec48 22398d60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9d5a4
* On 29-12-96 at 02:54, JIM STAAL wrote to GWENNY THE POOH,
on the topic of "execute her ?" in echo Holysmoke:

JS>  Do not confuse Mormonism with Christianity.

They're both pointless...

JS>  I see. What Bible do you read?

None.  I don't have a need for superstition.

JS>  Adultery, as you know, is a sin.

Actually, I don't know this.  I don't have a concept of sin,
because I don't believe in your spookbook.  However, I believe
adultery is immoral if it is done by one to harm the fidelic
relationship with their spouse -- however I didn't need a book to
tell me that is just respect for a person.

JS>  GT>> Or maybe she enjoys abuse.
JS> JS>  What abuse?
JS>  Gt> Living with you.

JS>  Evidence???

It is self-evident, Jim.

JS>  Fly your butt out here and see for yourself. 4285 41st St. Grandville,
JS>  MI

Oh boy.  I might take you up on the offer.  Any chance of you
getting in your leathers for the occasion?

JS>  Again, just an apostate Mormon speaking. Meaningless...

Again, you're an apostate Christian speaking.  Meaningless too!

Rod "...you're a moron, Jim, but we still love you and want to
liberate your soul!" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * When in trouble or in doubt, run around, scream & shout!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Around the World in 80 P
|Date: 25 Jan 97  17:50:02
EID:e4af 22398e40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9d74a
* On 29-12-96 at 02:59, JIM STAAL wrote to MICHAEL HARDY,
on the topic of "Around the World in 80 Pr" in echo Holysmoke:

JS> I disagree. The Bible is for all time and is not trapped in culture:

JS> (2 Tim 3:16 NIV)  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for
JS> teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,

It's undeniable that the bible is becoming more and more of an
outdated document with less and less relevance for today's
society.  I foresee the day when it will no longer be used as a
guide book to life, more as a mythbook to be laughed at.

One day, Jim, people will laugh and wonder why people ever
believed the Christian superstition book.

Here's some areas where the bible is no longer relevant:
* Where the bible says something that is contradicted by
science...
* Where the bible says something is bad for humanity and
is proven wrong by human practice...
* Where the bible has silly ceremonial lore that is no
longer relevant to today's lifestyle...
* Where the bible has customary practice in areas like
cleanliness and holiness that are irrelevant to today's
life...
* Where the bible contains illogical admonitions against
foods, fibres, farming, clothing, herding, etc, mainly
in Leviticus.

This aside the whole argument can be summarised very easily -- the
areas of research in the sciences and the humanities are an
ever-expanding area of knowledge.  The bible is not an expanding
base of knowledge.  One is dynamic, one is not.  One has the
capacity to grow knowledge, one has the capacity only to limit
it.  Hence, given all this, the bible will become more and more
irrelevant as time passes.

Rod "...hence leading to my conclusion -- one day the bible will
no longer matter to anyone." Swift :)


* OLX 2.1 TD * Accept Jesus as my Saviour?  Why, that'd be selfish!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Literally Seaking
|Date: 25 Jan 97  17:52:04
EID:20b4 22398e80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9d7c4
* On 29-12-96 at 03:01, JIM STAAL wrote to DAVID RICE,
on the topic of "Literally Seaking" in echo Holysmoke:

JS>  DR> #1) "Belief" in evolution is irrelivent: it is an
JS>  DR> observed fact, not subject to "belief."

JS> Show me the 'observation' where man appeared.

Man's 'appearance' <> 'evolution'.
You should know this by now, Jimbozo.

JS>  DR> #3) If you would like a short primer on mammal gender,
JS>  DR> please bellow and I'll send a few hundred thousand bytes
JS>  DR> on the subject your way. Give an e-mail address if you
JS>  DR> want said data.

JS>  Appreciate the effort, but it would be wasted. None-the-less, the
JS>  address is: brojimmy@pipeline.com

So, at first you ask for information about evolution as observed
in mammals, and that scream that the onus of proof is on David -- then
when he offers to provide such evidence to you, you claim that
"it'd be a waste of time".

You can't have it both ways, Jimbozo.

Rod "...you're being disingenuous." Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * DEVICE=EXXON.SYS may mess up your environment!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  jesus needed...
|Date: 25 Jan 97  17:53:06
EID:ff08 22398ea0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9d802
* On 29-12-96 at 03:03, JIM STAAL wrote to KAREN DAVIS,
on the topic of "jesus needed..." in echo Holysmoke:

JS>  JS> No. As Christ had to be fully human as well as fully God, He had
to
JS>  JS> have a gender.

JS>  KD> True, but the savior could as easily have been female.

JS>  yes, but the jjpoint is, He wasn't. He was a man.

He was also gay, Jim.  He was also a liberal, Jim.

Rod "... I offer you the chance to disprove the supporting
evidence to Jesus's sexual orientation" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Dance is thought mad by those who can't hear the music.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Leviticus
|Date: 25 Jan 97  17:54:08
EID:0a20 22398ec0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9d840
* On 29-12-96 at 03:05, JIM STAAL wrote to KAREN DAVIS,
on the topic of "Leviticus" in echo Holysmoke:

JS> ... A feminazi was injured...call a witch doctor!

Jimbozo's been injured.  Call a vet :)

Rod "...*neigh* hello Wilbur!" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * The universe's most common elements: Hydrogen & Stupidity

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  execute her ?
|Date: 25 Jan 97  17:56:10
EID:ec48 22398f00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9d8ba
* On 29-12-96 at 03:18, JIM STAAL wrote to GWENNY THE POOH,
on the topic of "execute her ?" in echo Holysmoke:

JS> JS>  Her name is Diane and her number is (616) 532-2455.

JS>  Gt> I only believe what I can see.  It's very easy to fake voices.

JS> Well, Wilbur is really pissed now, and you if have any balls at all,
you
JS> would call her at the above number. It really isn't that hard at all
to
JS> affirm that that is indeed my phone number for the last 30 years. Ask
JS> for Wilbur or Diane if you choose.

I'll remember this for later shenanigans... ehhehehehe :)

Rod "...eeevil grin" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * The only rational solution to your problem is suicide.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 25 Jan 97  17:58:12
EID:c45c 22398f40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9d934
* On 29-12-96 at 17:13, JIM STAAL wrote to RICHARD SMITH,
on the topic of "Oops, Caught Again" in echo Holysmoke:

JS>  RS>  Have you heard the rumor that the Mormons, aided by the
JS>  RS>  Promise Keepers, are planning on organizing another million
JS>  RS>  man march on Washington?

JS> No. That _fact_ is, that Promise Keepers is organizing the first million
JS> man march on Washington.

Third, actually.

You follow a:
* March on Washington for gay rights.
* Million Man March for African American rights.

But then, since the Promisefilth have reservations to both the
abovementioned groups, they've conveeeeniently forgotten them :)

Rod "...eh Jimbozo?" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * An unbreakable toy is useful for breaking other toys.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Leviticus
|Date: 25 Jan 97  17:59:14
EID:0a20 22398f60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9d972
* On 30-12-96 at 22:39, JIM STAAL wrote to SUE ALEXANDER,
on the topic of "Leviticus" in echo Holysmoke:

JS>  Two weeks ago Mad TV had a skit called 'Terminator in Bethlehem'.

You remind me of their skit "Gump Fiction" :)

Rod "...you go figure it out" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Dance is thought mad by those who can't hear the music.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Karen Davis
|Sub:  Cheese Whiz
|Date: 25 Jan 97  18:03:16
EID:437e 22399060
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9da64
* On 28-12-96 at 19:22, KAREN DAVIS wrote to NATE COOKSON,
on the topic of "Cheese Whiz" in echo Holysmoke:

KD>  NC>     ""If it isn't a baby, then she's not Pregnant""

KD> If it *is* a baby, then she isn't pregnant any more.

Zing!!! :)   Good one Karen... :) :)

Rod "...and Shelby asked him to learn a bit about biology :)" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Any milk can make cheese.  Here, have some gerbil cheese.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Nate Cookson
|Sub:  Cheese Whiz
|Date: 25 Jan 97  18:12:18
EID:04df 22399180
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9dc82
* On 30-12-96 at 10:43, NATE COOKSON wrote to GWENNY THE POOH,
on the topic of "Cheese Whiz" in echo Holysmoke:

NC>  GtP> BTW, I have FOUR children and a grandchild.  Your point?

NC>      i've never been able to understand someone who has seen the miracle
NC>   of life first hand, and still accept abortian.

I've never been able to understand someone who has seen the
tragic pain of life first hand (in the form of torturous and
unending insufferable pain), and still accept pro-life or
anti-euthanasia...

Rod "...remember, your God created Kevorkian :)" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * A fool and his money are soon befriended.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Nate Cookson
|Sub:  cheese whiz
|Date: 25 Jan 97  18:15:20
EID:04df 223991e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9dd38
* On 30-12-96 at 11:00, NATE COOKSON wrote to DAN CEPPA,
on the topic of "cheese whiz" in echo Holysmoke:

NC>       I wonder if there are any other reasons for pregnancies not going
NC>        full term other than a "mean" God playing tricks on us?

I don't think so.

NC>       Maybe environment? How about mankind that is pouring toxic waste
NC>       into the ground and our water supplies? How about mankind that
NC>        is pouring toxic waste into the air we breath??

No.  I don't think so.  In fact, science allows us to save babies
that would most likely have been stillborn half-a-century ago.

God wants them dead, and we save them! :)

NC>   Maybe it's not God at all??

Afraid that it is your God?

Rod "...he's probably killed at least a few trillion by now,
Nate.  Does that make you insecure that he has done such a
precedent?" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * I'd give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Nate Cookson
|Sub:  Cheese Whiz
|Date: 25 Jan 97  18:17:22
EID:04df 22399220
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9ddb2
* On 30-12-96 at 12:09, NATE COOKSON wrote to GWENNY THE POOH,
on the topic of "Cheese Whiz" in echo Holysmoke:

NC> NC>     ""Abortion stops a beating Heart""

NC>  GtP> Steak stops a beating heart.

NC>   I've seen lot's of folks walk away after eating a good
NC> steak... I havn't seen any babies live after the vacum gets
NC> done tearing their arms
NC> and legs off...

I've seen lots of Christian protesters walk away from an abortion
clinic after a good protest...

I've not seen any Christian protesters live after the rottweilers
get done tearing their arms and legs off though...

Rod "...maybe abortion clinics should hire vicious attack dogs,
to get rid of the Christian filth" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Diplomacy: The patriotic art of lying for one's country.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Nate Cookson
|Sub:  Re: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 25 Jan 97  18:19:24
EID:04df 22399260
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9de2c
* On 30-12-96 at 12:13, NATE COOKSON wrote to QUENTIN FAI,
on the topic of "Re: Cheese Whiz" in echo Holysmoke:

NC>  NC>     ""Abortion stops a beating Heart""

NC>  QF> But, so does a hamburger.

NC>      Maybe so... Just not as fast...

Then come back after you fucking outlaw McDonalds, you penis!

In fact, life causes death.  Come back after your pro-life stance
has outlawed life :)

NC> The other difference
NC> may also be that the person eating the hamburger can decide
NC> for them selves.. the Baby doesn't have much say in it.

Of course, you'd rather compel the mother to have a baby -- even
if that is risky to *her* life, moron.

Rod "...you're the reason for {yourage/4+3} trimester abortions,
Nate" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Physicist: An atom's way of knowing about atoms!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Nate Cookson
|Sub:  Cheese Whiz
|Date: 25 Jan 97  18:20:26
EID:04df 22399280
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9de6a
* On 30-12-96 at 12:18, NATE COOKSON wrote to DAN CEPPA,
on the topic of "Cheese Whiz" in echo Holysmoke:

NC>  DC> You are a fucking idiot.  ES&D

NC>     Nasty stuff, tell me did your mommy drop you on your
NC> head when you were little?

Ironic.  You're pro-life, yet don't respect it.

For your life, abortion shouldn't only be legal, but mandatory.

Rod "... you are a poster-child for abortions" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * ...Pro-life?  Then what are you doing about TOBACCO?

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Nate Cookson
|Sub:  Re: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 25 Jan 97  18:21:28
EID:04df 223992a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9dea8
* On 31-12-96 at 08:09, NATE COOKSON wrote to JASON HARMON,
on the topic of "Re: Cheese Whiz" in echo Holysmoke:

NC> NC> ""Abortion stops a beating Heart""

NC>  JH>     So does killing steer. Do you eat meat? Can you do anything
except
NC>  JH>     mindlessly parrot propaganda?

NC>        It's amazing... How when someone like myself stands up against
NC>        the killing of unborn childern..

... I note you're probably pro-death-penalty, and hence a
hypocrite.  Do you also support the killing of people who are
gay, for example?

NC>        all the blood suckers of the
NC>        world throw their mindless little phrases out....

You were the one throwing out the one-liners, child.

Rod "...see above, moron" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Physicist: An atom's way of knowing about atoms!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Nate Cookson
|Sub:  Literally Seaking
|Date: 25 Jan 97  18:24:30
EID:879b 22399300
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9df5e
* On 31-12-96 at 08:17, NATE COOKSON wrote to DAVID RICE,
on the topic of "Literally Seaking" in echo Holysmoke:

NC>  DR> Have you any evidence that "Jesus 'Christ'" even existed,
NC>  DR> let alone that he was a god? If so, please share it with
NC>  DR> the audience. Thanks.

NC>       Depends on what you mean by "evidence" my closed minded friend.
NC>      There are historians outside of the Christian Church the wrote
NC>      about Jesus and His death... None of them stated "He was the Christ"
NC>      but they do give credance that Jesus did actually exist.

My diary says I exist.
My diary says I'm a god.
Historians can verify that I exist.
They do not verify if I'm a god.
They do give credence that I exist.

Therefore, I am god.

Your argument is missing a few vital steps to verify that Jesus
Christ actually was the Son of God and able to do the
supernatural things that the Bible claims.

You failed to prove that the mythical deity structure called
"God" exists, also.

There is much evidence from your own bible to *disprove* the
existence of God as a supernatural being.

Rod "...read the bit about God answering prayers, for example" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * As Piglet psychosexually said, "Bounce on me too Tigger!"

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Nate Cookson
|Sub:  Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 25 Jan 97  18:25:32
EID:ff10 22399320
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9df9c
* On 31-12-96 at 08:27, NATE COOKSON wrote to GWENNY THE POOH,
on the topic of "Reading Incomprehension" in echo Holysmoke:

NC>      And it's great isn't it! Spreading the Word for few $'s. I've
NC>      been in several used Bookstores, Bibles and Christian "stuff"
NC>     don't stay on the shelf very long. In fact Bible Bookstores in our
NC>     area are doing a good business.

We're buying the books and burning them at our Satanic Witch
Pacts with Beelzebub! (tm)

NC>  GtP>                    My skin, my bones, my heretic
NC>  GtP> heart are my authority,
NC>  GtP>                                                             Gwenny
NC>          This is really to bad.... since you skin will someday rot away
NC>          your bones fosilize, and your heart stop beating.... It's a
sad
NC>          thing to base your whole life on....

And your concern is *so* believable.  Not!

Rod "...come and join our book burning, Nate!" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Yogi Bear was a nudist buddhist.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Nate Cookson
|Sub:  execute her ?
|Date: 25 Jan 97  18:27:34
EID:767e 22399360
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9e016
* On 31-12-96 at 08:36, NATE COOKSON wrote to GWENNY THE POOH,
on the topic of "execute her ?" in echo Holysmoke:

NC>  GtP> I only believe what I can see.  It's very easy to fake voices.

NC>      Gee... you can't see the air... but yet you are still breathing?

Actually, you can see O2, with assistance.

You can't see Australia *directly* without assistance.  Yet you still
know it exists.

God, claiming to be a supernatural being, could make himself
visible.  Why he does not is contradictory to his benevolent
nature *AND* concern for humanity.

Rod "...you work it out, bozo" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't believe in miracles, expect them.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Nate Cookson
|Sub:  Bible
|Date: 25 Jan 97  18:30:36
EID:b417 223993c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9e0cc
* On 31-12-96 at 09:21, NATE COOKSON wrote to MARTIN GOLDBERG,
on the topic of "Bible" in echo Holysmoke:

NC>  NC>    Well my friend  it was really penned by 40 authors under the
NC>  NC> direction
NC>  NC>    of God, it's purpose was to speak to mankind about a better

NC>  MG> Direction of god?
NC>  MG> Evidence for this wild assed claim, Fundy.

NC>       Maybe you could first tell me what you would consider as "evidence"

Get a dictionary.  We will accept a standard scientific
definition of "evidence", and probably an investigative
definition (i.e. eyewitness accounts) :)

The argument you make must be completely supported by evidence.
The argument you make cannot contain fallacious logic, like
circular logic.

"The bible says that the Bible is the Word of God" is not
evidence and would be an example of an argument.  The argument is
also circular in logic.

Rod "...got any ol' biblical writers' brains in jars there so
that we can reanimate them?" Swift :)


* OLX 2.1 TD * Pumpkin: What people in Tasmania do.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Nate Cookson
|Sub:  atheistic bombast
|Date: 25 Jan 97  18:40:38
EID:dec0 22399500
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9e326
* On 31-12-96 at 09:24, NATE COOKSON wrote to MARTIN GOLDBERG,
on the topic of "atheistic bombast" in echo Holysmoke:

NC> Why must we "prove" God exists?

Because the onus is on the presenter of an theory to provide the
evidence which supports the theory.

NC> There are many things in life that "exist" but we don't have the
NC> expertise yet to discern them?

Yes, but people will make evidentiary discoveries of the
remaining mysteries of the environment, and formulate theories,
and develop knowledge.

NC> Many years ago, no one could prove that a atom existed... but
NC> today we know they do, as will the future unfold many things that
NC> "exist" today...

Yes, this is an example of scientific advancement -- the
discovery of evidence, and the refining of a theory based on this
and other evidence found.

NC> but we aren't aware of them... It doesn't mean it doesn't exist...

Actually, we are aware of the underlying foundation evidence of
atoms.  It *does* mean they exist.

NC> Maybe it isn't that God doesn't exist... Maybe it's just that you
NC> can't at this time discern (for what ever reason)

I've yet to see any evidence to purport a God theory.

However, in the pursuit of the advancement of knowledge, we do
have the obverse of evidence leading to a tenable theory.  We can
use evidence to *disprove* theories due to the theory's
contradiction to the evidence.

We can disprove a theory either completely or partly, by a
theory's fallibility.

The theory of the Christian God existing contains a number of
fallible argument points.  If we consider the Christian God
exists, we are also allowed the given statement that the
Christian God answers prayer.  This is clearly stated in the
scriptural book of this God structure.

This point is also a fallibility point that is absolute.  The
Christian God, should it exist, states clearly that it will
answer ALL prayer given to it.

This is a *point of evidence* that is testable of the theory.
Since the Christian God, if it exists, claims to be omnipotent it
should be able to provide a response in a very expedient amount
of time.

The consistent failure of Christian prayer to this "God"
disproves the God's existence, given this alleged God claims to
answer prayers absolutely and quickly.

NC> You can't see the air.. but that doesn't stop you from breathing
NC> now does it?

We can't see air *right now* maybe.  However, we *can* see it if
we choose to reproduce the experiments that produce the evidence
of it.  Also, seeing is not the only method of gaining evidence.

NC> I doubt anything said on this echo would prove his existence
NC> to you.....

Is that because you are unable to find any evidence to support
the existence of a God?

Rod "...I can disprove your God, however, based on the paradigms
of the theory you have presented, and that makes me feel good" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * A closed mouth gathers no feet.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Quentin Fai
|Sub:  Re: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 25 Jan 97  18:41:40
EID:7781 22399520
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9e364
* On 28-12-96 at 02:32, QUENTIN FAI wrote to DAVID RICE,
on the topic of "Re: Cheese Whiz" in echo Holysmoke:

QF> While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt David utter:

QF>  DR> "Dead fetuses" are put in red plastic bags with black
QF>  DR> biohazzard blossoms printed on them, and sent to one
QF>  DR> of hundreds of hazzardous waste furnaces in the country.

QF> What a waste of perfectly good protein. :)

Babies.
Fun to make.
Fun to eat.

Rod "...I have a picture, too :)" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * A Magick Book that sticks with you: The VELCRONOMICON

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Andrew Masten
|Sub:  Heat [1/2]
|Date: 25 Jan 97  19:04:42
EID:b2e1 22399880
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32e9e8ca
* On 28-12-96 at 00:43, ANDREW MASTEN wrote to RICK MCFARLANE,
on the topic of "Heat [1/2]" in echo Holysmoke:

AM> Without belaboring the point, I concede that Laurie, in what is evidently
AM> misguided enthusiasm, has gone over the line. Its too bad, because I
AM> think creationism can stand on its own merits without out resorting
AM> to unsavory tactics in its defense.

Oh really?  Care to provide some of the evidence that supports
that theory?

In fact, we've never had a Christian provide a point-by-point
summary of the theory with a list of major evidentiary points,
yet.  Care to do that for us?

Rod "...enquiring minds want to know" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Train stations are where trains stop, so workstations...

--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Sue Armstrong
|Sub:  A God
|Date: 26 Jan 97  18:23:02
EID:91ad 223a92e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eb3086
* On 29-12-96 at 12:08, SUE ARMSTRONG wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "A God" in echo Holysmoke:

SA>  SA> ... Baldrick, how did you get so much custard out of such a small
cat?

SA>  RS> I have this as a .wav file....!
SA>  RS> Want it, Sue???
SA>  RS> Rod "... let's trade on IRC! :)" Swift

SA> :)  I'd love it - if I had a sound card ...

Damn, you don't have one?  Some of the cheaper 16 bit ones are
about $40 here.

Rod "...maybe I should get you one next Yule :)" Swift

* OLX 2.1 TD * Death is life's answer to the question "Why?"

--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 26 Jan 97  18:54:10
EID:d18f 223a96c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eb37d2
* On 02-01-97 at 15:17, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:

FR> rs> I remember to boycott Cracker Barrel at *every* possibility due
FR> rs> to their chain-wide policy of terminating the employment of
FR> rs> people whose sexual orientation *is* or *perceived* to be
FR> rs> non-straight.

FR> I'm going to see if I can find anything on this.  I don't
FR> recall this particular boycott.

I'll try and find anything I can.  An Altavista Search may find
you something.

FR> One of the most disgusting things I do is buy pizza from Domino's Pizza
FR> House. They have a habbit of sending a percentage of their
FR> revenues to support domestic terrorist organizations like
FR> "Operation Rescue."

Domino's is fundie-owned.  Have you seen who they give their
annual "humanitarian" awards to?

They are filthy morons.  I'd rather eat at Pizza Hut or Cici's :)

Rod "...praise Jesus, and pass the pan-pepperoni-pizza" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Participate in Throw a Christian to the Lions Year 1997!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  What are you claiming no
|Date: 26 Jan 97  18:56:12
EID:0fbf 223a9700
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eb384c
* On 02-01-97 at 15:31, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "What are you claiming now" in echo Holysmoke:

FR> iJS> No, I wasn't aware that 'having sex with children, polygamy,
FR> iJS> rape, and brainwashing are now considered "Not hurting
FR> iJS> anyone".'

FR> Are you claiming that "David Koresh" was having sex with children?

*boing*.  Please restate a single question :)

There are documented reports of Vernon having his wicked way with
teenagers, from memory.  I'll see what I can dig up from the
archives around here.

Rod "...he liked the young ones :)" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Nuke a gay Jesus for the baby whales

--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Clergy Buggering
|Date: 26 Jan 97  18:58:14
EID:fbbb 223a9740
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eb38c6
* On 02-01-97 at 15:38, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Clergy Buggering" in echo Holysmoke:

FR> DC> From:  Peninsula Daily News 8/12/96
FR> DC> Church Wants Gag Order in Molest Case

FR> Of course they do.  They want a return to the silence which
FR> has protected them for hundreds of years.

Naturally.  They wish to have immunity from government and judicial
reviews of their acts, and to administer their own "justice"
against their own.

FR> DC> The diocese later admitted that McGreal was aslo allegedly a
FR> DC> pedophile.  He had been twice to the church's treatment center
FR> DC> for pedophiles in Jemez Springs, NM

FR> rs> Dan, don't you find it a sad indictment that the church has a
FR> rs> centre set up to deal with pedophiles?  Sounds like they have an
FR> rs> awful lot of them...

FR> I opine that it's window dressing; something they can point
FR> to and demand that they're actually doing something about
FR> the problem.

Window dressing aside, it's still a pretty sick idea that
pedophilia is so endemic in some churches that churches have to
set up specialised centres to solve the problem.

FR> If they were serious about fixing the
FR> problem, they would close their churches and derive
FR> measures to make certain that no Christian master is ever
FR> left alone with a child.

Amen, brother Fred!

Rod "...I think that is an excellent policy.  Don't trust the
adult clergy!" Swift :)


* OLX 2.1 TD * Person+delusion=psychosis.  People+delusion=religion.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  Controlled robot
|Date: 26 Jan 97  18:59:16
EID:468a 223a9760
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eb3904
* On 02-01-97 at 15:42, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Controlled robot" in echo Holysmoke:

FR> #include J.J. HITT
FR> #include AL SCHROEDER

FR> AS> Neither shall _I_ be pushed arond, bullied, or controlled.
FR> AS> Or silenced, either.

FR> As if we _wanted_ fundies to refrain from exposing themselves.

:) :)  But of course :).  How would we amuse ourselves if the
village idiots shut up :)

FR> rs> I find it ironic that Al protests so much when we even make
FR> rs> suggestions on how to act ethically -- note *suggest*.
FR> rs> But when he bombastically interferes in the privacy and life of
FR> rs> David R, he claims that he's acting justly and ethically.

FR> I find it the greater irony that someone who (presumption)
FR> goes to a church demands he's not going to let anyone
FR> control him.

ROFL!  Thanks for that perspective.  Just look at this
bumpersticker phrase below that reminds me of a similar irony.

Rod "... Jesus sets you free!" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Bugger me with a fish fork!

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Glen Todd
|Sub:  The Other Shoe
|Date: 26 Jan 97  19:02:18
EID:2420 223a9840
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eb39ba
* On 03-01-97 at 16:36, GLEN TODD wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "The Other Shoe" in echo Holysmoke:

GT> Heilsa, Rod Swift!

Bendigwhatever, Glen :)

GT> While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Rod
Swift
GT> whisper furtively to Al Schroeder something about The Other Shoe:

Oh boy... Scarves :)  *kinky*

GT> RS> If we didn't have the Christian Dogma, we'd be burning yule logs
GT> RS> and have a lot more caring, understanding, tolerant world :)

GT> And I hope you had a very merry Yule as well.   Skaal!

I celebrated the first festive season apart from my partner,
Christopher, and his family -- this is the first time in four
years that this has happened.

Although the fact that I do not place any significance in the
time of the year having any greater effect on my emotional
disdain at this situation, December has always been the time in
which I return to the US to be with my partner.  This December
just gone is an indicator that normally I'd be there.

It's very distressing that I'm waiting here for a final decision
in Hawaii.  You see, if I travel there at this time, it may affect
our greater plans.

But thank you for the wishes for the yule season.

Rod "...we return you to our regularly scheduled village idiots" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * Hey fundie! Why can't your mind be as open as your mouth?

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To:   Steve Quarrella
|Sub:  Masturbation
|Date: 26 Jan 97  19:05:22
EID:f456 223a98a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eb3a72
* On 05-01-97 at 01:13, STEVE QUARRELLA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Masturbation" in echo Holysmoke:

SQ> Salue, Rod!

SQ> Dies solis December 29 1996, Dixit Rod Swift ad Joe Palas:

SQ>  RS> The mormons have some really strange views on jerkin' the
SQ>  RS> gherkin', I'm afraid.  I have a really excellent post sitting
SQ>  RS> around somewhere which satirises their "commandments" against it,
SQ>  RS> if anyone wants a chuckle *and* if I can find it.

SQ> My in-laws are afflicted with that particular brand of Christianity,
and my
SQ> youngest brother-in-law has a -great- book on
SQ> proselytization, which also includes some "pointers" on how
SQ> to refrain from autoeroticism.  I'll have to copy the thing
SQ> the next time we're in Salt Lake, as it's a riot.

Please do.  The only online version on the web I can find is from
a badly tattered document.  An original for me to transcribe for
the net would be a goodthing(tm).

If this is the same document I'm thinking about, it has such
wisdom as "If you can't stop thinking about it, go and make a
sandwich", and to "keep a little calendar, and colour in days
black if you succumb, the idea being to get 3 months without
black marks", and "imagine you're bathing in worms, and eating
some, if you get the temptation"

Rod "...i.e. really sicko stuff :)" Swift :)

* OLX 2.1 TD * The Christian Right is neither

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Karl Schneider
|Sub:  Ask And Ye Shall Rece
|Date: 19 Jan 97  18:20:00
EID:976e 22339280
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e2ac20
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Karl Schneider said to Jimson Staalin about ASK AND YE SHALL RECE:

js> wrong party. I believe that many mothers who murder
js> their children via abortion are doing so in ignorance
js> (and imediately their consciences convict them
js> afterwards), having been filled with lies from the
js> pro-choice group. I believe that the heinous, murdering,
js> Satan/dollar driven doktor should be put on trial for
js> being a serial killer and be punished in whatever manner
js> the state allows/mandates for that crime.
KS> It isn't a crime, moron.

What should be a crime is receiving a diploma from Calvin
U., as Jimson did.

At the very least, he should take them to court to try to
get his money back . . .

... 'cognative'? Isn't that...liqueur consumed by...Leipzig? -- J. Staalin
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Karl Schneider
|Sub:  I do hope you are all ta
|Date: 19 Jan 97  18:24:02
EID:6e9c 22339300
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e2ad12
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Karl Schneider said to Jimson Staalin about I do hope you are all ta:

js> I have guns...and show them to my friends.
KS> Lots of guys with little bitty dicks do that.

So, you're assuming that he actually has one?

Must be why he constantly harps about size and milk crates .
. . . 

... (The Jews in the camps) got what they deserved.  -- Jimson Staalin 

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Shelby Sherman
|Sub:  World wide flood! [1/ 1/
|Date: 19 Jan 97  18:35:04
EID:1c02 22339460
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e2afa8
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Shelby Sherman said to Dougie Schwandt about World wide flood! [1/ 1/2:

SS> Such as?  For example?  What evolution are you talking about,
SS> the evolution that is observed in nature by science, or the
SS> wildly-distorted and ignorant caricature that is purported by
SS> creationists? 
JM> What kept the canopy up... magic? Invisible superfriends?
ds> How about lack of gravity?
SS> ROFL!  What kept this mysterious canopy from floating off
SS> into outer space, you ignoramus?

A lack of a lack of gravity?  

ds> What we now consider a miracle we may later be able to
ds> find a demonstratable , repeatable and ovservable
ds> mechanism for.  When the White Man first used thei r
ds> fire sticks, the Indians thought they were gods.  After
ds> they knew how  the firesticks worked, gods became men.
SS> ROFL!  Hector's Law again, little fundie.

Does Doug actually believe that firesticks even exist?  Most
of the early settlers used either flint and steel or
friction to start fires with.  Matches came much later.


... 55.5 dozens: Number of doughnuts of the Beast.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  Ask And Ye Shant Receive
|Date: 19 Jan 97  19:16:06
EID:6819 22339a00
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e2b946
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Marty Leipzig said to All about ASK AND YE SHANT RECEIVE:

js> Pay me like your commie pal, Leipzig and maybe I'll
js> consider it.

Now that would be unskilled labor at it's worst!

ML> Let's see...I worked in Russia so Stallin labels me
ML> a commie.

I guess his son, working in Korea, must be a commie as well,
eh?

ML> Now, a few posts back, Ivanbozo was chortling about warbling in
ML> a state prison.
ML> Draw you own conclusions.

Was he singing: "Oh, sweet mystery of life at last I've
found you . . . ?"


... Be swift to shout IS NOT, slow to reason, impossible to talk to.-JS1:9
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Ken Whines
|Sub:  Ask And Ye Shall Receive
|Date: 19 Jan 97  22:20:08
EID:daac 2233b280
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e2e468
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Whines said to Robert Curry about Ask And Ye Shall Receive:

KW> I might
KW> also remind you that before very recent history those
KW> who belonged to Evangelical Protestant and/or Roman
KW> Catholic Churches were not known as "religious 
KW> extremists." Unfortunately today the term is applied
KW> to anyone with religious convictions. Those who 
KW> disagree with those with religious convictions
KW> think it is ok to impose their own values (or
KW> lack thereof) on this Country. But it is wrong
KW> for those with opposing values to impose their
KW> values. What hypocricy!

So, in essence, you say it's okay for a group to impose
their values on another group, as long as it's the right set
of values?  Uber alles, Ken.


... Hitler was perfectly legal in his extermination of millions of Jews.KW
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Ken Whines
|Sub:  judging actions
|Date: 19 Jan 97  22:24:10
EID:7541 2233b300
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e2e55a
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Whines said to Robert Curry about judging actions:

kw> I do not judge men, I do make judgments about their actions.
kw> For me to do nothing and to say nothing while millions of
kw> the unborn are being murdered would be a sin of the highest
kw> order.
RC> So how many of the "unborn" (i.e., zygotes, embryos, and fetuses)
RC> can your god kill in, say, a worldwide flood before you make a
RC> judgement about *that* supposed action?
kw> I accept His judgment that all are sinners, period and worthy
kw> of death.

So, though they all deserve death, you have a hissy fit if
they get it?  How can a person be a sinner in your faith if
they give death to someone that you Deity has decided
deserves death?


... "All humans according to my God deserve death. . . ."  -- Ken Wiens
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Ken Whines
|Sub:  execute her ?
|Date: 19 Jan 97  22:38:12
EID:dad9 2233b4c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e2e8a4
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Whines said to Robert Curry about execute her ?:

kw> Point: Life begins at conception.
RC>Is an egg not alive? Are sperm not alive?
kw> Ok. It is education time. Pay attention:
kw> conception (ken-sOp+shen) noun
kw> 1.a. Formation of a viable zygote by the union of the male
kw> sperm and the female ovum; fertilization. b. The entity formed
kw> by the union of the male sperm and the female ovum;
kw> an embryo or a zygote.
kw> The American Heritage< Dictionary of the English
kw> Language, Third Edition copyright + 1992 by Houghton
kw> Mifflin Company. Electronic version licensed from INSO
kw> Corporation. All rights reserved.

Looks like you fudged your source, Kenster.  I have the
American Heritage Dictionary, and this is the exact
definition given in it:

conception (kuhn-sep'shuhn)

--noun
1. The fusing of a sperm and egg to form a zygote capable
of developing into a new organism.
2. A beginning; start.
3. The ability to form or understand mental concepts.
4. A concept, plan, design, or thought.

[< Lat. concipere, to conceive]

--concep'tional adjective

Now, I wonder why you altered the quote to add the word
`viable' as well as definition `b'?  Also, why didn't you
answer the question?  Is not an egg alive?  Is not a sperm
alive?

RC> You haven't really thought this through very well. That's
RC> one of many pitfalls associated with dogmatism: because
RC> you believe that you know the "One, True Answer," you
RC> neglect the duty to *think*.
kw> Sure I have. I not only have thought it thru I also realize
kw> that the opposing view on this matter is also dogmatism:
kw> the insistence that the mother and the mother alone has
kw> the right to decide. That, my friend, is dogmatism of the
kw> highest order. It is you who neglect the duty to think.

How is it dogmatism, Kenster?  You DO know what dogmatism
is, don't you?


... (Wiens on fairy beliefs):  Sure.  Do you have any reason to doubt him?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Ken Whines
|Sub:  execute her ?
|Date: 19 Jan 97  22:43:14
EID:dad9 2233b560
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e2e9d2
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Whines said to Karen Davis about execute her ?:

kw> It does qualify very much for abortions. The unborn child is a
kw> human being in process. To abort this process God has begun is
kw> to murder. The reference very much qualifies and answers the
kw> question.
KD> Nope, it isn't murder. Because it isn't illegal.
kw> By the same token it was not illegal in Nazi
kw> Germany to exterminate Jews. Therefore it
kw> wasn't murder.

Thank you for admitting that Karen spoke truly here.  It
takes quite a guy to admit his mistake.

... By all means, let's not confuse ourselves by the facts.  -- Ken Wiens

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Ken Whines
|Sub:  execute her ?
|Date: 19 Jan 97  22:47:16
EID:dad9 2233b5e0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e2eac4
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Whines said to Shelby Sherman about execute her ?:

kw> I said that everyone has within himself or
kw> herself knowledge that there is a God, a Creator.

And your evidence for this is?

... Evidence that ACTUALLY exists.-Leipzig     Hardly the best kind.-Wiens
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Ken Whines
|Sub:  Ask And Ye Shall Receive
|Date: 19 Jan 97  22:49:18
EID:daac 2233b620
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e2eb3e
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Whines said to Shelby Sherman about Ask And Ye Shall Receive:

SS> Do the lives of all children have value?
KW> All of them.

Even those killed by Xtian fundies throughout history, or
killed by the Jews in the Bible (as in, for instance, the
Midianites, or the Babylonian children dashed against
rocks)?


... Ken Wiens advocates murdering 12-year old rape victims who abort.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Ken Whines
|Sub:  Ask And Ye Shall Receive
|Date: 19 Jan 97  22:59:20
EID:daac 2233b760
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e2ed98
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Whines said to Dan Ceppa about Ask And Ye Shall Receive:

kw> No. I vote to pass into law what I consider morally right.
DC> We have seen your "moral right".
kw> And I have seen yours. Yours involves the indiscriminate
kw> killing of the unborn child whenever a woman wants
kw> to do so.

Please show me where Dan said this.  Feel free to quote his
text that said this.


... All humans according to my God deserve death . . .  -- Ken Wiens  
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Ken Whines
|Sub:  Ask And Ye Shall Rece
|Date: 19 Jan 97  22:59:22
EID:3acd 2233b760
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e2ed9a
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Whines said to Dan Ceppa about Ask And Ye Shall Rece:

KS> Unless performed or ordered by your god?
kw> If God kills it is not murder.
G> Murder is murder, regardless of the perpetrator.
kw> I agree.
DC>Ergo, Kenny, your god is a murderer.
kw> Nope. You didn't read the above, did you?

Now THAT'S dogmatism at it's worst.  You've already agreed
that regardless of who it is (even your Deity) that murders,
it is still murder.  Yet you then recant yourself.

You failed Elementary Logic 101, right?


... What you forget is that no one has a right to live.  -- Ken Wiens
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Ken Whines
|Sub:  Re: Bible MYTHOLOGY
|Date: 20 Jan 97  10:14:24
EID:64fb 223451c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e38bd0
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Whines said to Dan Ceppa about Re: Bible MYTHOLOGY:

JH> Question is, is there any evidence OUTSIDE the gospels?
kw> Question is, is there any source outside the gospels that
kw> even deals with the issue? Why would there be?

So your answer is no.  Thanx for admitting it.  There IS no
source outside of the gospels.

DC>Answer his question, Kenny,

He won't.  He's a weinie.

kw> I did answer his question, Danny. Pay more attention.

Actually, you didn't.  You waffled.

kw> Your rebuttals are profoundly boring and unfounded.
DC> Of course it's boring to you, fundy.  You can't
DC> wow the crowd with your bible verse.
kw> You've just proven you have not been paying attention.

How did he do that?

kw> "wow the crowd with your bible verse." What a lame
kw> reply. Now, you answer the question I ask above.

It may be lame to you, but I note how much you avoid it and
run away from it . . . it MUST have hit a nerve.  Why can't
you deal with it?

kw> Why would anyone else care enough to write an
kw> account in 1st century Palestine or in the
kw> Roman Empire? That is the question to ask and
kw> the question to answer in this context.

If they cared enough to get Roman involvement with the
execution, which is what your mythos claims, then the Romans
would have kept records.  Yet they do not.  As a person who
collects ancient Roman numismatics, I know that they pretty
much kept records on everything they could, being a very
over-laded beauracracy.  That the didn't indicates one of
three things: they didn't keep records of this miraculous
event (unlikely), the records of this miraculous event
didn't survive (again, unlikely, since it would have been
greatly copied, etc.), or the miraculous event itself didn't
happen.  Occram's razor, Kenster.

DC>Now, answer the question.
kw> I did.

Liar, liar, pants on fire . . .

kw> Now you answer mine? And stop playing the
kw> "stupid heathen" role.

Well, Dan only plays the stupid heathen role when he has to
chat with a stupid heathen such as yourself.  It's necessary
for communication.  We all do it, finding it necessary to
talk down to you to get any kind of cognisant reaction.


... This tagline is invisible to non-Xtians who don't buttfuck.  Hi Ken!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Ken Whines
|Sub:  execute her ?
|Date: 20 Jan 97  10:22:26
EID:dad9 223452c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e38db2
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Wiens said to Dan Ceppa about execute her ?:

DH> So he claimed.You also claim to know and understand
DH> the word of Go

Problem with the quote engine of your replies, Kenster.  If
you'd adjust your margins, we wouldn't have to believe that
you talk to an entity named Go.

kw> Very true.
DC> I talked to your god today.
kw> You are lying thru your teeth.

How do you know this?

DC> Bullshit, Kenny.  Your god told me you were a liar.  He
DC> stated "Kenny Wiens is a fucking liar."
kw> If my God had talked to you you would have characterized
kw> Him accurately with a big "G" instead of with a small
kw> "g". This alone makes it obvious the god you have in
kw> mind is not my God and is no god at all.

No, Dan is right . . . your god came and talked to me after
he talked to Dan.  He specifically stated that he wanted Dan
and I to use the lower-case `g' as his name was either YHVH
or Jehovah, but that god was a job description.  (AAMOF, he
was quite testy about the whole thing, talking about the
"fucking illiterates that continue to miscall him" etc.)

God also said that not only were you a fucking liar, but
that you were also a sissy-boy pedophile.  I told him that
that seemed a little harsh, and he said to see him in court
if you didn't like it.

DC> Care to argue with what your god said?
kw> I don't have a god.

Ah, so you are an atheist at last?  


... According to Ken Wiens, Jesus Christ is a moron.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Ken Whines
|Sub:  Re: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 20 Jan 97  10:50:28
EID:c9cf 22345640
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e39444
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Whines said to Dan Ceppa about Re: My Summer Weekend:

kw> I have a major problem with abortion.
ML> Then don't have one.
kw> I wish it were that easy.
DC>What's the matter, Kenny?
DC>Get yourself pregnant again?  
kw> Where were you when you were supposed to be
kw> taking High School Biology?

What's the matter, Kenster?  Don't know who the father is?


... Christianity based on the writings of Saul?  HAHAHAHAHHA  -- Ken Wiens
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Ken Whines
|Sub:  Staal Won'T Drink It
|Date: 20 Jan 97  10:36:30
EID:e8b4 22345480
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e390fe
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Whines said to Dan Ceppa about Staal Won'T Drink It:

kw> you when the sun has gone down. God is quite
kw> capable of creating a state of darkness. He
kw> does not and did not create sin. Sin is by
DC> IOW, Kenny, your god did not create everything.
kw> IOW, Danny, God did create everything. Sin is
kw> not a thing.

According to the American Heritage Dictionary, you're a
liar.  Please note the first definition for thing:

sin (sin)       --noun
1. A transgression of a religious or moral law.
2. A serious offense or fault.
--verb: sinned, sinning
To commit a sin.
[< OE synn]
--sin'less adjective
--sin'ner noun
sin (sEEn, sin) --noun
The 21st letter of the Hebrew alphabet.
[Heb]

thing (thing)   --noun
1. Something that exists; entity.
2. A tangible object.
3. An inanimate object.
4. A creature.
5. things.
5.a. Possessions; belongings.
5.b. The general state of affairs; conditions.
6. An article of clothing.
7. An act, deed, or work.
8. A thought or notion.
9. A piece of information.
10. A matter to be dealt with.
11. A turn of events.
12. Slang. A uniquely suitable or satisfying activity:
doing his own thing.
[< OE]

Ergo, the only way that sin could not be a thing is if it
doesn't exist.  In which case, no one sins and there are no
sins.  Thanx for admitting that for us, Kenster.


... This kind of scientific analysis is frightening, indeed!  -- Ken Wiens
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Ken Whines
|Sub:  My Summer Weekend
|Date: 20 Jan 97  10:40:32
EID:c9cf 22345500
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e391f0
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Whines said to Karen Davis about My Summer Weekend:

kw> Whatever you say, oh Omnipotent One.

Is Karen aware that you worship her?  Oh, wait . . . she
must be aware of it, if she's omnipotent!  So now you
worship both Karen Davis AND Moron?

... Which God? - Richard Smith    The God of the Bible, moron. - Ken Wiens
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Karen Davis
|Sub:  My Summer Weekend
|Date: 20 Jan 97  10:42:34
EID:6d72 22345540
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e3926a
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Whines said to Karen Davis about My Summer Weekend:

kw> Whatever you say, oh Omnipotent One.

Gee, can't you get higher-quality worshipers than Ken
Whines?  Aren't you embarrassed?  

... "Dr. Scott!"      "Janet!"      "Brad!"     "Rocky!"     "Bullwinkle!"
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Karl Schneider
|Sub:  Loud Brick Cravenweed
|Date: 20 Jan 97  11:41:36
EID:b8ff 22345d20
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e3a040
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Karl Schneider said to John Harvath about Loud Brick Cravenweed:

jh> Just go back to playing with yourself Worrell it's what
jh> you do best anyway.  Don't bother me anymore I'm sick of
jh> you faggs & all your bullshit.
jh>                                   Lord Candleblack
KS> Are you sure your candle isn't brown?

Aren't you assuming that he has a candle?


... My God has a bigger dick than your God.                  George Carlin
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Curtis Johnson
|Sub:  false christian scum
|Date: 20 Jan 97  12:00:38
EID:dcbc 22346000
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e3a4b6
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jimson Staalin said to Curtis Johnson about false christian scum:

DC> No, Jimbo, you are assuming that a god exists.  Provide
DC> the evidence of its existance before you use his alledged
DC> writings.
js> DUH! If He didn't exist, His writings wouldn't exist!
CJ> If Flashman didn't exist, then his memoirs wouldn't exist,
CJ> would they?  If Watson didn't exist, then his accounts of
CJ> Sherlock Holmes wouldn't exist, would they?  Etc.
js> LOL! I love the way you guys jump and dance when I pull
js> the strings. 
CJ> I love the way you don't even realize your head just got
CJ> handed to you.
js> Just can't take it, can you....
js> XXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXX     XXX XXX XXX
js> XXXXXXX XXXXXXX  XXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXX     XXX XXX XXX
js> XXXXXXX XXX XXX    XXX    XXXXX   XXX     XXX XXX XXX
js> XXXXXXX XXX XXX    XXX    XXXXX   XXX      XX  XX  XX
js> XXX XXX XXXXXXX    XXX    XXX     XXXXXXX XXX XXX XXX
js> XX  XX  XXXXXX     XX     XX      XXXXXX  XX  XX  XX

You're right . . . it IS a new level in cluelessness.  And I
thought Jimson had already reached bedrock . . .

js> ... It is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. - Acts 9:5

Nice of Jimson to share his homoeroticism with us . . .


... According to Jimson Staalin:degree of stupidity=degree of spirituality
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   David Rice
|Sub:  Sidebar masking . . .
|Date: 20 Jan 97  12:13:40
EID:c87b 223461a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e3a7c4
- Area: Holysmoke ---------------------------------------------
Msg#: 3219-31                    Date: 11-04-96  17:15-17:17
From: David Rice                 Read: Yes    Replied: No
To: Various Folks . . .        Mark:
Subj: False Christian SCUM!   R
Subj: YE SHAN'T RECEIVE       E
Subj: apologies               B
Subj: EXECUTE HER             A
Subj: EXECUTE HER
Subj: sadist god              M
Subj: Forwarded Message       c
Subj: Natural Selection       E
Subj: Fundamentalist!         N
Subj: Ken Wiens kill Homos!   T
Subj: Pussy little satanist!  I
Subj: Contradictions          R
Subj: Feeble human cattle     E
---------------------------------------------------------------

Is this an ivocation of Ms. McEntire or just a hidden
Satanic Message?  

Amazing what boredom will prompt you to find when you
haven't been in HolySmoke for weeks, isn't it?

... This tagline may contain an encrypted satanic message.    
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Time Keeper
|Sub:  P.E.
|Date: 20 Jan 97  18:01:42
EID:189a 22349020
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e3f956
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Time Keeper said to Shelby Sherman about P.E.:

tk> Well, I hate to show off my intellect

Mostly because you lack one.

tk> but since you asked:  PE is
tk> simply an abbreviation for the words
tk> Phisical

Ahem.  "Physical"

tk> Education which is
tk> commonly used in schools
tk> to describe gym class.
tk> Sheeez......that was an easy one....
tk> Next!

Before you count this coup (look it up), you might get some
adult ed classes, son . . .


... I may be synthetic, but I'm not stupid.                      -- Bishop
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Ronald Vass
|Sub:  The End.
|Date: 20 Jan 97  18:11:44
EID:ad3c 22349160
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e3fbb0
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ronald Vass said to Al Schroeder about The End.:

as> No; I have no love for this whole charade. I just wish
as> you would STOP it.  Stop saying the "Als of this world"
as> would do such-and-such, which is the exact opposite of
as> what I espouse.
RV> But you love this guy------

. . . some errant snippage . . .

RV> 70,000 victims (more round numbers?) die of a pestilence 
RV> sent by God because David took a census. 11 Sam 24:15
RV> -      <  much, much, much mode snip  >     -
RV> Your right Al. Sticking a single child underwater, 
RV> leading to that child dieing, is no big deal. Happy now, 
RV> I'm agree with You and Your loveing God.
RV> It's isn't tantamount, to God's bloodlust of old.
RV> As you say, so shall it be.
RV> The End.

Most excellent post.  Precise, concise, and to the point.
Kudos!


... Rape/Murder/Etc., is preferable to loss of Free Will.  -- Al Schroeder
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  Ask And Ye Shan'T Receiv
|Date: 20 Jan 97  18:23:46
EID:db3e 223492e0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e3fe82
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jimson Staalin said to Marty Leipzig about ASK AND YE SHAN'T RECEIVE:

ML> South Korea, 'eh? He couldn't find anywhere further away from
ML> you or won't any other country have him?
js> None of the above. Are you just jealous because you have no
js> offspring?

One might ask him the same thing.  Of course, I bet Wilbur
hasn't mentioned this to him yet . . .

js> teaching the little critters to speak
js> functional Engleesh.

Such lovely racial bigotry.  If nothing else, Jimson
provides an excellent bad example.  I have shoes more
intelligent than him . . .

ML> I'll wager he packed a raft of Bibles
ML> to teach those Asian heathens, right Ivanova?
js> No, he hasn't attended church since he left Grandville and
js> has taken only the NIV his grandmother gave him for his HS
js> graduation.

Sounds like an intelligent boy after all . . .


... ? "Get real, get a crate & reconcile to me, your speculum superior."
?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  Sadism in the name of Go
|Date: 20 Jan 97  18:35:48
EID:8492 22349460
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e40154
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jimson Staalin said to Marty Leipzig about Sadism in the name of God:

js>     a. do you kiss your poor wife with that mouth?
js> Just answer the question, oh ye of Red ideologies...

I see Jimson has finally been reduced to arguing with
himself . . .

js> In my previous career as an auto refinsh technician, I mastered

. . . baited . . .

js> the art and contributed much in the line GNP.

At last, an automobile painter less intelligent than Earl
Schibe!

ML> Your delight in posting in an international forum the
ML> sordid, scrubby and sorry details of your dysfunctional marital
ML> relationship is merely another manifestation of your myriad
ML> misfires.
js> At least I have the decency to use language that is 
js> acceptable in all quarters.

Another delusional response.  It isn't acceptible in ALL
quarters.  Jimson's grunts and `idunno's are only okay in
the trailor park . . .

js> b. it is interesting that an alleged 'ignorant so and so' can,
js> with so little effort push all yours buttons and pull those
js> little strings and make you dance like this. 
ML> Sure, Jimbozo.  We regard you as nothing more than a verbal
ML> speed-bag. If you want to continue to live that paranoid
ML> xenophobic fantasy you call a life, please ooze right along.
js> Talk on, big man, but the evidence is clear: I speak, you spout
js> (jump)...and I direct the band as you dance yourself in a frenzy of
js> rage, filth and self-condemnation. Live with it! LOL!

Gee, he IS a legend in his own mind . . .

ML> We appreciate the fact that like the circus geek you are, you
ML> provide us an outlet for verbal calisthenics and leave us copious
js> 'copious'?

I knew he didn't know what it meant.  You just can't go over
two syllables with Jimson and have him grok anything . . .

ML> time to wrestle with the real intellectual heavyweights around
ML> here, like Appletoon and Whiens.
ML>  sentence.>
js> I'm sure that with nothing more than their little finger they can
js> handle one such pinko pig as yourself.

Nope, he didn't get it at all.  BTW, I'd pay good money to
see you go up against Appletoon, you with your fists, him
with just his little finger.  Maybe Jimson can arrange it.

js> I recall we were talking about the first four years, not
js> graduate school.
ML> Same for both. That's the beauty of university-system schools
ML> (of course, explaining that to you is like explaining "blue" to
ML> a person blind from birth).
js> Oh, you attended some local 'junior' college? How appropriate.
js> XXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXX     XXX XXX XXX
js> XXXXXXX XXXXXXX  XXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXX     XXX XXX XXX
js> XXXXXXX XXX XXX    XXX    XXXXX   XXX     XXX XXX XXX
js> XXXXXXX XXX XXX    XXX    XXXXX   XXX      XX  XX  XX
js> XXX XXX XXXXXXX    XXX    XXX     XXXXXXX XXX XXX XXX
js> XX  XX  XXXXXX     XX     XX      XXXXXX  XX  XX  XX

This coming from a drop-out of Calvin U?  LOL . . .


... Hasn't happened yet, Dave. (the head part, that is)  -- Jimson Staalin
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Glen Todd
|Sub:  Sadism in the name of Go
|Date: 20 Jan 97  18:41:50
EID:da4b 22349520
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e402be
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jimson Staalin said to Glen Todd about Sadism in the name of God:

-=> Quoting Glen Todd to Jim Staal <=-
js> there is still a chance for your children to make the
js> correct decision)
GT> Ours already have.   You lose.    (Their talents for describing the
GT> Church and 'faith' that sanctioned and frequently instigated their
GT> abuse as well as their mother's is amazing.)
js> You and Gwenny actually have offspring together?

What, is Jim writing a book or something?  What a fucking
loon!  I hope you gave him a big NOYB . . .


... -- Jimson Staalin, LoveSlave of the Secret Fire --  
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Curtis Johnson
|Sub:  sadism in the name of
|Date: 21 Jan 97  10:05:52
EID:73b5 223550a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e4db50
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jimson Staalin said to Curtis Johnson about sadism in the name of:

-=> Quoting Curtis Johnson to Jim Staal <=-
GT>   ! Origin: American Thuggee Militia -- Knot a Problem (FidoNet
GT> 1:128/203)
js>  BTW, what the sam hill the 'thuggee militia'?
CJ> One cure for what ails you.
js> Mines bigger.

Uh oh, Curtis . . . looks like you turned Jimson on . . .


... ? "Get real, get a crate & reconcile to me, your Lake Superior." ?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  bible god vs. Al's god
|Date: 20 Jan 97  23:37:54
EID:4190 2234bca0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e44822
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Lynda Bustilloz said to Al Schroeder about bible god vs. Al's god:

RS> . . . but it specifically says that God hardens Pharoah's
RS> heart . . . waffle.waffle.waffle.waffle.waffle. . . .
as> (Pssssst.) And the Wiccan God/dess and Cernunnos don't
as> act to prevent evil because...?
LB> I could be wrong, but I don't believe the Wiccan Lord and Lady are
LB> claimed to be either omnipotent or omnibenevolent.

Hell, Al can't even get the lineup correct . . .

RS> admirably . . . after a fashion: I don't read his stuff
RS> anymore, though I get to see enough of it in other people's
RS> posts to be able to be sure that I get the highlights.
as> LOL!!! And people respond to one's STRONG points? Or go for
as> their weakest?
LB> *chuckle* HOW many messages a day did you say you were 
LB> getting before you took your vacation? That's a LOT of
LB> weak points, Al!

And increasing by the minute . . .


... Yes, to some people, I AM patronizing. I have REASON to be.A.Schroeder
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Martin Goldberg
|Sub:  Free Will
|Date: 21 Jan 97  09:08:56
EID:8d22 22354900
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e4cdf8
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Martin Goldberg said to Al Schroeder about FREE WILL:

as>    What it seems to indicate to me is that whoever set the
as> constants...and  through that, determined what the universe
as> was like...cares about there  being living, intelligent
as> observers.
MG> There you go again.  "Whoever set the constants"?  You are
MG> still assuming that they were "set" and that they are not
MG> simply the product of the interaction of matter.

You mean you don't buy into this rationalization after the
fact in order to get certain conditions to fit reality?  


... Faith is not rational.  -- Michael Hardy
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Martin Goldberg
|Sub:  FUNDY SHUFFLE: Step 8
|Date: 21 Jan 97  09:17:58
EID:be9c 22354a20
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e4d016
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Martin Goldberg said to Ken Whines about FUNDY SHUFFLE: Step 8:

kw> (HINT for Richard: the whole world was NOT smitten down
kw>  by the Deluge. Try reading the account in Genesis
kw>  sometime. There were survivors).
MG> Chapter and verse please.  The bible says that the entire
MG> earth was covered in water.

Ah, Ken is so amusing sometimes.  Of course, according to
the bable, there were survivors ONLY because the separated
themselves from the world overwhelmed by the deluge by
riding in a boat.

I think Ken needs Hooked on Phonics . . . anyone want to
chip in to get it for him and Staalin so that they can
get some remedial reading?


... It shows you observed a few details I had forgotten.  -- Ken Wiens
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Martin Goldberg
|Sub:  Legislating Morality
|Date: 21 Jan 97  09:24:00
EID:4599 22354b00
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e4d180
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Martin Goldberg said to Ken Whines about Legislating Morality:

kw> Yet our Government is prohibiting the free exercise
kw> thereof in this very day and age when it prevents
kw> children from praying among themselves on a school
kw> campus. If a Congressman or Congressmen make laws
MG> Name one child who has been prevented from giving
MG> prayer in school.
MG> Just one.

Me, and I'd already beheaded the chicken.  And they wouldn't
let me sacrifice the virgin, either.




... I saved the life of the virgin sacrifice by disqualifying her.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  I do hope you are all ta
|Date: 21 Jan 97  09:40:02
EID:a4ae 22354d00
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e4d542
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Marty Leipzig said to Jimson Staalin about I do hope you are all ta:

-=> Quoting Richard Smith to Marty Leipzig <=-
ML> My close friend and long-time pal, Lady McBeast, a 127
ML> kilo Neopolitan Mastiff passed away,  patented 'sobbing while typing' here>
RS> Copious Jimmy Swaggart Tears . . .
js> yeah, like it takes a real man to mock a person for
js> having normal human emotions.

Where did Jimson ever see a real man?

ML>  I GOT CAUGHT  - Jimmy "I
ML> hate porn...it's so expensive" Swaggart.

LOL . . .


... ARGH!  Arf... -Jim Staal
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  Ask And Ye Shan'T Receiv
|Date: 21 Jan 97  10:06:04
EID:db3e 223550c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e4db5c
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Marty Leipzig said to Jimson Staalin about ASK AND YE SHAN'T RECEIVE:

js> None of the above. Are you just jealous because you have no
js> offspring?
ML> Hardly. I have two particularly erudite daughters who at even
ML> their young ages would run intellectual circles around you and
ML> your fulminating ilk.

Not to belittle your fine daughters, but a shoetree could
run intellectual circles around the Staalin clan . . .

js> teaching the little critters to speak
js> functional Engleesh.^^^^^^^^

What a lovely bit of bigoted bile this is . . .

ML> Too bad he didn't start at home with you. Then again, he's
ML> probably not trained to deal with the PMR.
js> PMR? Besides, _I_ was the English major. He majored in
js> accounting.
ML> Profoundly mentally retarded. A bean-counter teaching English?
ML> My, but they must be *really* hard-up for instructors.

Need you ask?  

js> He is one your 'better educated'.
ML> Nope, he's one of yours.

I trust you when you say he isn't yours, Marty . . . I don't
think you've ever met Wilbur, have you?  

... I gotta get my sysop to realize it yet. He's Dutch, ya know.-J.Staalin

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  Sadism in the name of Go
|Date: 21 Jan 97  09:51:06
EID:8492 22354e60
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e4d7da
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Marty Leipzig said to Jimson Staalin about Sadism in the name of God:

js>     a. do you kiss your poor wife with that mouth?
js>     a. do you kiss your poor wife with that mouth?
js> Just answer the question: do you kiss your poor wife
js> with that mouth?
ML> I already did, Herr Idiotsan. Tell me, do you fondle Wilbur
ML> with the same hands that you use to accept your free government
ML> cheese?

Considering how Jimson is questioning you and Glen about
intimacies, I wonder if Wilbur hasn't cut him off lately.
He should just go out and get a dirty video, but I guess he
emulates Swaggart too much for that . . . and doesn't have a
job, so he can't afford a hooker.


... Can't you just talk to the old lady across the kitchen table? - Jimson
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Dougie Schwandt
|Sub:  bible god vs. Al's go
|Date: 21 Jan 97  12:14:08
EID:6e10 223561c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e4f960
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dougie Schwandt said to Glen Todd about bible god vs. Al's go:

gp> Not so.  The resurrection of Jesus is quite well attested
gp> historically, perhaps the single most attested historical
gp> event!
GT> {chortle}
DC> Provide evidence outside you bible that the "resurrection"
DC> has been confirmed.
DC> Meanwhile, get a book about Mithraism and learn where your
DC> "resurrection" originated.
GT> And I'm sure I could scrape up half a dozen other similar 
GT> myths that the author(s) of that bit might well have
GT> encountered.
ds> By all means, enlighten us!

You seriously need it . . .

ds> Unless, of course, you are content to spout  empty
ds> rhetoric.

You mean, as you do?

ds> If so, then what you say has no substance.

It would then resemble your own posts, that is correct.


... I have found no Platystrophia in my area.--Doug `I TNT T-Rex' Schwandt

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Dougie Schwandt
|Sub:  John 3:3
|Date: 21 Jan 97  12:15:10
EID:e53c 223561e0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e4f99e
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dougie Schwandt said to Glen Todd about John 3:3:

mm> John 3:3
GT> Please flush.
mm> Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, Verily, I say
mm> unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see
mm> the kingdom of God.
GT> Which god, spammer.
ds> The God of Genesis 1:1.

Which god would that be?  Got a name handy?  You know, like
YHVH, Jehovah, Thor, Hastor, Baal, etc.?


... . . . the Son is God . . .   -- Athanasian Creed
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Dougie Schwandt
|Sub:  My Summer Weekend
|Date: 21 Jan 97  12:14:12
EID:40fe 223561c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e4f964
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dougie Schwandt said to Jim Staal about My Summer Weekend:

ds> Methinks there is something between the lines here.  I
ds> would vote for adultery as being the number one cause
ds> for pagan divorces.

Impossible.  Adultery is not a Pagan crime.  It doesn't
exist in any established Pagan groups/faiths that I know of.

Thereby making me absolutely correct in asserting: more
Xtians engage in adultery than Pagans do.


... Hester Prynne got an A for adultery. I barely made a C-minus.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  I do hope you are all ta
|Date: 21 Jan 97  12:19:14
EID:a4ae 22356260
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e4fa92
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jimson Staalin said to J.j. Hitt about I do hope you are all ta:

RS> Copious Jimmy Swaggart Tears . . .
js> yeah, like it takes a real man to mock a person
js> for having normal human emotions.
JH>  Boo hoo hoo! I GOT CAUGHT! Boo hoo hoo!
js> Actually, the warm and kind Richard was mocking
js> my grief for my father.

Wouldn't this presume that Jimson knew who his father was?


... My ignorance is *just* *as* *good* as your education. - Jimson Staalin
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  I do hope you are all ta
|Date: 21 Jan 97  12:25:16
EID:a4ae 22356320
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e4fbfc
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jimson Staalin said to Marty Leipzig about I do hope you are all ta:

-=> Quoting Richard Smith to Marty Leipzig <=-
ML> My close friend and long-time pal, Lady McBeast, a 127
ML> kilo Neopolitan Mastiff passed away,  patented 'sobbing while typing' here>
RS> Copious Jimmy Swaggart Tears . . .
js> yeah, like it takes a real man to mock a person for
js> having normal human emotions.
ML>  I GOT CAUGHT  - Jimmy "I
ML> hate porn...it's so expensive" Swaggart.
js> Excuse me? MISTER Smith (is that your real name?) was
js> mocking my grief over my father's death. Nothing to do
js> with Swaggart.

I see.  That must be why I didn't mention Jimmy Swaggart,
eh?


... Sex ed classes in our public schools are promoting incest.-J. Swaggart
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  Ask And Ye Shant Receive
|Date: 21 Jan 97  13:43:18
EID:6819 22356d60
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e50e46
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jimson Staalin said to Marty Leipzig about ASK AND YE SHANT RECEIVE:

ML> Let's see...I worked in Russia so Stallin labels me a
ML> commie.
js> Oh, it isn't the working _in_ Russia that branded you a
js> commie-pink boy-fink. It was the working to give them our
js> blessed superiour technology and other secrets...just out
js> of dollar lust.

*gasp*

Does he mean you told them how to prevent retards like Jimson?

For shame, Marty.  


... Jimson Staalin: as they don't exist, grasshoppers shouldn't be eaten.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Sandy Hooper
|Sub:  Ask and ye shall receive
|Date: 21 Jan 97  14:03:20
EID:a326 22357060
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e512f8
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Sandy Hooper said to Sean Mccullough about Ask and ye shall receive:

JB> If that's the case, then at what age do they become
JB> human enough to be recognized by the christian god?
RV> I have to admit, Ken seems to be right. I can't find
RV> an area where you can, with a sprinking of water, 
RV> save a kids soul. Other then clas
RV> a child as a nothing, it is lost to hell.
>  Not true.  The Bible says God will judge righteously.
SM> Just one more Bible LIE.
SH> Logic would dictate that two opposite statements
SH> cannot *both* be true.

You mean like:

Jesus Christ died for your sins.

Jesus Christ lives.





... Among the paradoxes of Chaos is that in essentials, it stays constant.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Robert Curry
|Sub:  Darkness
|Date: 21 Jan 97  18:20:22
EID:2efc 22359280
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e54f36
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Robert Curry said to Robert Burke about Darkness:

RB> I fear not Satan for he is a fool. 
RC> Indeed.
RC> Satan once tried to convince me to sell my soul, but when I mentioned
RC> the asking price -- namely, for him either to provide a proof of 
RC> Goldbach's Conjecture, or else to supply a counterexample -- that 
RC> foolish red tailed fraud came back with some nonsense that only 
RC> signified he lacked the first clue about what Goldbach's Conjecture

RC> is...let alone how to prove it or to find a counterexample! 

Personally, I hate it when that happens.


...   -- Jimson Staalin
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  False Christian Scum
|Date: 21 Jan 97  18:44:24
EID:60fe 22359580
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e554d8
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Marty Leipzig said to Jimson Staalin about False Christian Scum:

js> No, I just wandered over when I heard 'mirror'...
ML> Isn't vanity one of your seven deadlies?

No, I think that was china closet that was one of his seven
deadlies . . . 


... I have no desire.  -- Jimson Staalin
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Deaths Angel
|Sub:  Re: Other religion
|Date: 21 Jan 97  19:03:26
EID:2e8c 22359860
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e5594e
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Deaths Angel said to Don Martin about Re: Other religion:

tt> anybody out there practice witchcraft?
tt> if so write me!
DM> It would seem to me that if they _really_ practiced witchcraft,
DM> they would not have to communicate by such mundane means.
da> Not true. Witchcraft is not sending thoughts or reading 
da> minds, but the practice of magic through the use of 
da> spirits and other worldy creatures. That  and the occasinal 
da> witch gets lonely for technology, don't you think??? TTYL
da> D~A

More importantly, don't you?

da> ! Origin: The only good christian is a DEAD christian! (1:340/14)

Ah, I see not . . .


... Genocide means never having to say you're sorry.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Don Martin
|Sub:  The nine satanic stateme
|Date: 21 Jan 97  19:19:28
EID:c440 22359a60
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e55d10
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Don Martin said to Robert Burke about The nine satanic stateme:

RS> Again, wrong.  You're just lucky that there are educated
RS> people here who can see the source for something that you
RS> appeared to be taking credit for yourself.
rb> Yea I'm trying to pass myself off as Milton. All my posts
rb> are in Old English.
rb> Please.

Whatta maroon . . .

DM> In the last post, you tell Richard that he is "really showing
DM> his ignorance." Then you smug off with the suggestion that Milton
DM> spoke and wrote in Old English, a language not spoken in England for
DM> some three centuries before John's birth. Milton employed a formal
DM> English, with a heavily Latinate vocabulary, but it was a Modern
DM> English.



DM> It helps to know what you are talking about before you berate
DM> others about their ignorance, but then we have come to expect
DM> this sort of thing from thumpers. It is, in fact, another 
DM> behavior characteristic of fundies.
DM> That's two.

I forget, what was one?


... No.  I have hope though.  You give me hope for hell.  -- Robert Burke
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Don Martin
|Sub:  False christian scum
|Date: 21 Jan 97  19:22:30
EID:6f62 22359ac0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e55dc6
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Don Martin said to Robert Burke about False christian scum:

RS> Around here, that's considered running away.  After all, it
RS> would not be any effort at all for you to capture your post
RS> and reupload it when you respond.  However, avoiding
RS> answering the question by saying you already have (falsely or
RS> otherwise) will garner you no respect.
RB> I cannot upload. My modem sucks. I can download fine but it freezes
RB> when I try to upload. You are so blinded by your hatred that your
RB> perception of reality is extremely skewed.



DM> You need to get a modem that blows as well as sucks.

Much like it's owner . . .

DM> Incidentally, another characteric of fundies around here is that
DM> they, rather than addressing the issue, attempt to explore the
DM> motives or psychology of the person raising the issue. You do this
DM> quite a lot, I see.

And with very little trolling or efficiency . . .

DM> I also see that what Richard is trying to tell you is nothing
DM> but the truth about the way people (not just you) are treated on
DM> Holysmoke. What is it about the comment of his you quote that you
DM> find so "blinded by your hatred that your perception of reality is
DM> extremely skewed." Do you claim that he is offering a false
DM> assessment of what goes on in this echo? Do you claim that he does
DM> this out of hatred and that the hatred shows? Please be so good as
DM> to point to the precise point where Richard's hatred shows in the
DM> above.

I must have answered him.

DM> And you claim you are not a fundy. That's three.

Ah, now I remember what the counting was for . . . 


... Extreme good-naturedness borders on weakness of character.  Avoid it.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Dougie Schwandt
|Sub:  absolutely sick       1/
|Date: 22 Jan 97  14:04:32
EID:527e 22367080
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e664c0
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dougie Schwandt said to Judith Bandsma about absolutely sick 1/2:

JB> Regardless of your breed, this effects you.  If you feel
JB> strongly that this is an absolute attrocity which will only 
JB> contribute to the endless supply of unwanted companion animals.
ds> No, what contributes to the endless supply of unwanted
ds> companion animals is when these animals escape from
ds> their homes (for whatever reason) and begin
ds> "uncontrolled" breeding.  In many cases, if the escapee
ds> returns (or is returned) home, the owner won't know
ds> what damage has been done until 45-75 days after the
ds> escape.

I see that you have omnipotent powers of observation, to be
able to KNOW this as applying to ALL unwanted dogs, etc.
How nice for you.

ds> Since there are OTHER organizations which engage in
ds> animal breeding for profit,

Wrong turn, Dougie.  Every breeder I knows does NOT make
money at it, they do it because they love and respect the
breed.  How many dogs do YOU breed that you know it is
otherwise?

ds> why the big stink because a CHURCH is doing it?

Maybe because it's someone doing it JUST for profit?

ds> Oh... I get it now!

I don't think you can remember your middle name, let alone
understand the written word . . .

ds> If successful, the church would be in competition with
ds> the groups you have listed at the end of this message!
ds> I'll wager that I could also think of other reasons just
ds> as ludicrous.

Thank you for admitting that your reasoning is ludicrous.
We knew it ahead of time anyway, but it's nice to get
confirmation.

ds> Why don't you go after the "know-nothing"
ds> owner who allows their animal to be bred and then sells
ds> the offspring at below-market rates?

Names, please.  You DO have some facts to back up this
horseshit with, don't you?

ds> You're just upset that it's a church doing this and it has the
ds> potential to drive prices down in your area.

How long have you had these mind-reading abilities, Dougie,
and how many fingers am I holding up to you at this moment?

JB> My personal concerns with this situation are: 1) The
JB> individuals involved are *clearly* and *unmistakable*
JB> wanting only to make money with the breeding endeavor.
JB> 2) They have no experience/expertise in this area or
JB> with the breeds which they are looking to prostitute for
JB> their own purposes.
JB> 3) What will happen to the animals
JB> they can't sell?  What criteria will they use to
JB> determine if a home is suitable - or is it "you got
JB> money, you get a puppy"? Will they take a dog they breed
JB> back three years from now because the family who
JB> purchased it on impulse no long wishes to "fool" with
JB> the dog? Are they aware of required record keeping
JB> practices? Do they know breeding dogs isn't always "fool
JB> proof"? What about emergency care in the event of
JB> whelping problems?  If they are doing this to raise
JB> funds, do they have adequate money to ensure the
JB> necessary regular health care for the animals in the
JB> "breeding program"? I could go on forever.
ds> I'm sure you could.  Just be sure to ask those questions of
ds> EVERY PERSON you have knowledge of that would be thinking 
ds> about breeding their animal or having it bred.

Or what, little man?

ds> You have no right to rouse the rabble to a cause that isn't.

Who you calling rabble, fuck-face?  BTW, your quoting
margins are STILL fucked up.




... Duh, Dougie?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Dougie Schwandt
|Sub:  P.E.
|Date: 22 Jan 97  09:47:34
EID:f345 22364de0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e62886
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dougie Schwandt said to Chris Green about P.E.:

CG>Wotcha Shelby,

SS>here have very little knowledge of evolutionary theory or PE.  Tell
SS>me _exactly_ what you think PE is.
CG> Plastic Explosive waiting for something 'noisy' to detonate it,
CG> by any chance.
DS> Before I proceed with this reply, I insist on three rules:
CG>1.  Sit on top of PE.
CG>2.  Place head between knees.
CG>3.  Kiss ass 'Goodbye!'
DS> I'm glad to see my original post is still making the rounds.  It would
DS> be nice to see it in its ertirety.  Unless, of course, you lack the
DS> intellectual fortitude.

You mean be like you?


... Verbal vomit:SchwandtDougie SchwandtDougie SchwandtDougie SchwandtDoug

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Dougie Schwandt
|Sub:  Mars
|Date: 22 Jan 97  14:05:36
EID:53bc 223670a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e66500
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dougie Schwandt said to Chris Green about Mars:

cg> Though if there are micro-fossils in there, it begs
cg> the question, how much more is waiting to be found?
ds> IF there are microfossils in there, it also begs another,
ds> greater question:  Are these microfossils necessarily
ds> Martian?
ds> It is a well-known fact that rock is porous,

SOME rock is porous, porous meaning:

porous (por'uhs, pOHr'-)
--adjective
1. Having or full of pores.
2. Admitting the passage of gas or liquid through
pores or interstices.
--poros'ity (puh-rahs'i-tEE) noun
--po'rously adverb

Not ALL rock is porous.  Chowderhead.

ds> although some rocks are densier than others.

But none are as dense as you.

ds> Those "microfossils" could easily have leached
ds> in there over the time the rock was buried on earth.

XXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXX     XXX XXX XXX
XXXXXXX XXXXXXX  XXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXX     XXX XXX XXX
XXXXXXX XXX XXX    XXX    XXXXX   XXX     XXX XXX XXX
XXXXXXX XXX XXX    XXX    XXXXX   XXX      XX  XX  XX
XXX XXX XXXXXXX    XXX    XXX     XXXXXXX XXX XXX XXX
XX  XX  XXXXXX     XX     XX      XXXXXX  XX  XX  XX

Gads, but you are an ignorant buttfuck, aren't you?  Let me
give you a little lesson.

Though they are tiny, those microfossils are still complex
structures.  They can only leach into material in the same
manner as you can disolve a Buick in your glass of milk by
stirring it three or four times: in other words, IT IS
IMPOSSIBLE!  (So give up on the idea of a Buick shake!)  But
say you did have some of your magick pixie dust, given to
you by your Imaginary Superfriend (real big spender!) and
you used it to make sure that you could dissolve solid
structures in a liquid which could be then absorbed by an
absorbent substance.  Now you go get some of your ABSORBANT
rocks (that really don't exist in nature, but you do have
your Imaginary Superfriend to help you out, don't you!) and
sprinkle the pixie dust on some lovely diatoms and liquify
them and put the absorbant rocks on them to soak them up.
Then you cut open the rock and look.  Do you see them?  Not
without a microscope, chowderhead, but say you do have a
microscope on them, what then?  What do you find?  NOTHING.
If they could be dissolved, what would reassemble them into
what they were once they were inside the rock, you stupid
asswipe?  Your Imaginary Superfriend?

Fossils that are in a matrix are most usually there because
at one point that matrix WASN'T stone, but was sediment.
Either a sea floor, or volcanic ash, sometimes even molten
lava.  I.e., they were not inside a SOLID as of yet.  Over
time, the sediment cements or cools enough to hold the
fossils in the matrix.

You're so ignorant you make me puke with laughter.

ds> But, of course, this flies in the face of accepted
ds> evolutionary thought, doesn't it?

Everything you say flies in the face of thought, Dougie.

ds> After all, this rock would have HAD to solidified
ds> around something that would have had to be
ds> alive...wouldn't it?

The matrix could have formed around something that was dead,
you idiot.  However, if this is what happened, then the
matrix came from Mars to Earth in a non-solid form of some
sort.  Perhaps one of those rare Martian Interstellar Dust
Storms?

You are too laughable for words.

ds> As I recall, these microfossils measured a whopping .00001
ds> micron, or thereabouts.

That's right, about twice the size of your brain.

ds> What would the pores in this rock look like?

Well, DUH, they would look like pores.

ds> After all, if water can infiltrate a geode, it is HIGHLY
ds> LIKELY that these supposed microfossils could also
ds> infiltrate this rock.

LOL . . . you're so fucking stupid, I just love this!
Reread above . . .

cg> Fundamentally speaking this should not change anything,
cg> since they do not accept current scientific thought anyway,
cg> anything new will simply end up in file 13 - indeed I am
cg> minded of 2 old ladies who watched one of the Apollo
cg> missions to the moon; they never did believe that men had
cg> walked on the moon, after all they would have had to have
cg> gone through heaven to get there!
ds> Just because you have the opinion of two old ladies with a
ds> limited understanding of the cosmos

Kind of like you, eh Dougie?

ds> is no valid reason to believe that all fundamentalists believe
ds> as they do.  In fact, that is the most CLASSIC case of
ds> stereotyping I have EVER seen!

Live with it, lumox.  You ARE the stereotype, after all.

cg> An odd thought has struck me, what if Mars is the Garden of
cg> Eden? :-)
ds> An even odder thought struck me.  Suppose that the Garden of
ds> Eden is buried beneath MILES of Flood rubble...

That either of you claimed to have a thought struck me as
odd.


... A heap is a heap is a heap.  -- Dougie Schwandt
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Dougie Schwandt
|Sub:  Stalin would approve you
|Date: 22 Jan 97  14:06:38
EID:d60c 223670c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e6653e
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dougie Schwandt said to Chris Green about Stalin would approve you.:

cg> Though I rather fancy that had you been alive at the time of
cg> Copernicus or Galileo, then you would have been one of the
cg> fanatics baying for their heads, or for the pleasures of the
cg> torture chamber.
ds> I don't think

I know, but let us continue anyway . . .

ds> The fanatics baying the MOST for the heads of Copernicus and
ds> Galileo were the scientists of the day who were trying to
ds> protect their theories.

First, nobody asked for either of their heads.  Secondly,
their biggest foes at the time were the Xtian authorities.
Live with it.

cg> Have you read, 'Open Heart, Open Mind - The Contemplative
cg> Dimension of the Gospel' by Thomas Keating. ISBN:
cg> 1-85230-221-6. Published by Element?
ds> No, I haven't.  There is enough commentary (almost ALWAYS
ds> WRONG) on here about the Gospel that I do not feel the need
ds> to subject myself to any more at this time.

Sure, no reason to put actual thoughts into your head.  Why
destroy it's pristine emptiness.?


... I have found no Platystrophia in my area.--Doug `I TNT T-Rex' Schwandt
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Fredric Rice
|Sub:  This is your soul on NOO
|Date: 22 Jan 97  14:19:40
EID:e220 22367260
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e6684c
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Fredric Rice said to Sean Mccullough about This is your soul on NOOD:

> Shit... here I was hoping that there might be some lesson to be
> learned from the human experience... And now I know what _It's_
> _All_ _About_ ... it's about a fucking grape.
> [I was planing to stuff my Thanksgluttony turkey with baby onions
> and jalepenos... now it's going to be onions, peppers and GRAPES.]
sm> No NOODLES??
FR> Somewhere in the United States there's a landfill that's
FR> probably about bursting with tons and tons of growing, 
FR> qwivering NOODLES by now.

Shit, I just saw a story the other day about endless NOODLES
. . . remind me in a week or two when the books are all
unpacked, and perhaps I can upload it for everyone's
enjoyment . . .


... "PENNEcostal school, where God _is_ NOODLES!":         Lynda Bustilloz
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Andrew Masten
|Sub:  "Flat Earth" Town
|Date: 22 Jan 97  16:24:42
EID:7508 22368300
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e6859a
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Andrew Masten said to Sue Armstrong about "Flat Earth" Town:

JS> Imagine a town where women can be arrested for wearing
JS> shorts in  public, where people caught smoking or
JS> whistling on the streets can be thrown  in jail, where
JS> cigarettes, lipstick, life insurance, high heels,
JS> alcohol, and  certain foods such as bacon, ham, and
JS> oysters are strictly forbidden.  Imagine a place where
JS> there are no doctor's offices, drugstores,  theaters,
JS> places to dance-a community of born-again
JS> fundamentalists presided  over by a Bible-wielding
JS> dictator who believed the world was flat as a pancake
JS> and going to hell in a handbasket.  Long-time callers to
JS> Blue Moon may remember that I
SA> Hmm. 
am> Imagine a world where all voluntarily lived by the golden rule,
am> treat others as they would be treated. No wars, no armies to
am> support.

Obviously not a religious world, since all the major wars
have had some religious connotation.

am> No need for police or courts.

Just like the former Soviet Union?

am> No locks on houses stores or cars.

Why not?  Locks can be used for more than preventing theft.

am> No poverty or starvation.

Again, sounds like the religion has been cut out of this
society, since every religious country that I've seen or
heard of has has both poverty AND starvation.

am> Booming economies.

Based on what?

am> No rape, murder or mayhem.

Definitely doesn't sound like any Xtian country I've ever
heard of . . .

am> Children could roam freely without fear of wierdo's.

Wierdo being an elastic term . . .

am> If your car broke down, you would wave down the first
am> motorist and they would give you a ride.

I've had that happen to me today.

am> Unprecedented wealth and plenty for all.

If there's wealth and plenty, why would there be a need for
an economy?  Ever read Keyes, Andrew?

am> Its difficult to imagine a world where people willfully
am> lived by the golden rule which Christ said summed up the
am> law and the prophets.

Wonder where Christ got it from, since it predates his
supposed existence?

am> You just think that God is some miserable tyrant who
am> wants all to be miserable.

Too bad the Bible contradicts you.

am> Thats just a lie, God wants prosperity, peace and joy
am> for all.

That's why he's so into torture and suffering?


... Wal-Mart, the American Taliburn of Free Speech.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   David Rice
|Sub:  False Christian Staal
|Date: 22 Jan 97  16:46:44
EID:7ef4 223685c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e68ac4
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Jimson Staalin said to David Rice about False Christian Staal:

DR> Naw. [It] means he is the one who selects which books
DR> to burn every Sunday.
js> BZZZZZT! Wrong! DING-DING-DING-DING-DING-DING-DING! It
js> means he is the one who welcomes the church to the house
js> of God on Sunday morning, selects and leads the
js> congregation in the singing of songs of praise, (usually
js> _very_ upbeat numbers), whipping them into a frenzy and
js> then bringing their hearts and minds into a calm state
js> as we go into our morning prayer, followed by another
js> song after which I welcome the pastor/teacher into the
js> room.
DR> Fancy that. Joseph (Paul) Goebbels has nearly the same
DR> job!
js> Hmmm...I believe the correct tense is _was_.

XXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXX     XXX XXX XXX
XXXXXXX XXXXXXX  XXXXXXXX XXXXXXX XXX     XXX XXX XXX
XXXXXXX XXX XXX    XXX    XXXXX   XXX     XXX XXX XXX
XXXXXXX XXX XXX    XXX    XXXXX   XXX      XX  XX  XX
XXX XXX XXXXXXX    XXX    XXX     XXXXXXX XXX XXX XXX
XX  XX  XXXXXX     XX     XX      XXXXXX  XX  XX  XX

"Joseph Goebbels was nearly the same job!"?  Our failed
English Major strikes again . . . LOL . . .

js> No - repeat - no books are burned.
DR> Records smashed?
js> Nope. Broken, perhaps (how a 49 year old man can produce
js> such energy so early on a Sunday morning)

Obviously a vibrating butt-plug has its uses . . .


... Oh, like _you've_ never had a shitcream cone.  -- Jimson Staalin
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Sue Armstrong
|Sub:  Apocalypse Now
|Date: 22 Jan 97  20:17:46
EID:cfdd 2236a220
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e6bc3a
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Sue Armstrong said to Richard Smith about Apocalypse Now:

SA> Making a good die roll, Richard Smith cast Apocalypse Now 
SA> at David Rice .. and all hell broke loose.
SA> Good cast, but I got left out again. :(

I didn't have you in as Fundy Handler?  I should have . . .
sorry about that . . . how about:

Sue Armstrong . . . . . . . . . . . . . Fundy Wrangler
(No Fundies were harmed during the production, but some of
them should have been.)


... At least Pee Wee Herman wasn't *talking* during the movie.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Shelby Sherman
|Sub:  Hey babe!
|Date: 23 Jan 97  21:53:48
EID:76a0 2237aea0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e8243c
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Shelby Sherman said to Richard Smith about Hey babe!:

RS>  Oh yeah?  Prove it.  Consider: the only source we have for
RS>  Laurie's gender is Laurie hirself.  And you KNOW how honest
RS>  Laurie is, don'tcha? 
SS> I don't think that a female could be as stubbornly stupid as
SS> Laurie.

Well, you got me there . . . 


... Laurie Appleton: Blacks and Caucasians are separate species.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Dave Hamilton
|Sub:  Goodbye /3 (2)
|Date: 23 Jan 97  21:55:50
EID:f1d8 2237aee0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e824b6
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dave Hamilton said to Richard Smith about Goodbye /3 (2):

RS> Lupus, then, would be an autoimmune disease, right?
DH> Sure is.
RS> Is it still invariably fatal?
DH> In theory, yes, always, however it can sometimes be slowed and
DH> contained such that one is likely to die of natural causes first.

I have a friend that has it AND Adrenal Cancer.  He's about
thirty-five, and claims that he thinks he's got about ten
years or less left . . .


... At birth we woke to dream in this world between.  -- Kan'ami Kiyotsugu
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Glen Todd
|Sub:  I do hope you are all ta
|Date: 23 Jan 97  21:56:52
EID:fa77 2237af00
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e824f4
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Glen Todd said to Richard Smith about I do hope you are all ta:

GT> Heilsa, Richard Smith!

Bendigaid Glen!

GT> While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard
GT> Richard Smith whisper furtively to John Musselwhite something about
I
GT> do  hope you are all ta:
JM> Me too... I'm a Labrador retriever kinda guy, but I have a
JM> soft   spot for Newfies.
RS> I'd like a couple of Great Danes, or maybe some of the
RS> Scottish Elkhounds . . .
GT> A Lab, a Lab/Tervuren cross, a Tervuren, and a
GT> wolf/Akita/Husky hybrid here at Casa High Reaches.   You
GT> should see our feed bill, though.

Well, I've got two boys approaching puberty . . . so I can
imagine.  Wanna trade?  


... All life is a conjugation of the verb "to eat".
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Glen Todd
|Sub:  execute 'em!
|Date: 23 Jan 97  21:58:54
EID:510b 2237af40
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e8256e
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Glen Todd said to Richard Smith about execute 'em!:

GT> Heilsa, Richard Smith!

Bendigaid Glen!

RS> He believes in executing them.  However, abortion is not
RS> illegal, so any such `execution' _would_ be illegal, and
RS> would therefore be murder.  But watch him waffle on this
RS> anyway . . . it can be amusing .
GT> Weiner-dawg long ago ceased to be amusing.    In fact, he's
GT> working hard on a  reserved seat in my Memorial Twit File 
GT> for the Hopelessly Moronic.

And I thought he'd never amount to anything . . .


... Above the stratosphere the temperatue becomes quite warm. -- Ken Wiens
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Windy
|Sub:  HIV and Micheal
|Date: 23 Jan 97  22:00:56
EID:e014 2237b000
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e825e8
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Windy said to Richard Smith about HIV and Micheal:

Wi> Well, since the latest news about how it is now suspected 
Wi> that a virus probably causes Karposi's sarcoma, I haven't 
Wi> heard much from Micheal in the other echos.  If you 
Wi> remember, his prime suspected cause for lowered immune 
Wi> systems getting Karposi's sarcoma(sp) was poppers - Amyl 
Wi> Nitrate(sp).  If the virus option is proved, that blows his 
Wi> prime causal force for Karposi's sarcoma right out of the 
Wi> water.  
RS> Fascinating . . . where did you hear about this at?  I want
RS> to go grab files . . . 
Wi> Not sure... I read too many sources.  I think it made the
Wi> news briefly, but I can't tell you where.  Perhaps doing a 
Wi> search on @Times in the Science News might get you 
Wi> something.  I am sure that the results of the story will be 
Wi> checked into.  As I recall, it was a hospital based study, 
Wi> but I can't tell you where.  The news came out in the last 
Wi> month.

Well, I'll just have to go search a periodical index
sometime soon . . .


... . . . immortal T-cell lines producing HIV are never killed.-M.Martinez
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
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PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Curtis Johnson
|Sub:  Re: Free Will
|Date: 23 Jan 97  22:05:58
EID:7d5a 2237b0a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e82716
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Curtis Johnson said to Richard Smith about RE: FREE WILL:

RS> a good, configurable, editor.  When I use mailpackets
RS> instead, I use Bluewave, again with QEdit and List.  In both
RS> systems I use ShareSpell, when I bother to do spell checking,
RS> anyway . . . 
CJ> I told Don there were people who swore by Qedit!
RS> All in all, it's not a bad editor.  What is really
RS> problematic about it, though, is trying to unlearn it's
RS> commands when I go back to WordPerfect . . . 
CJ> True for any system!  A major irritation of mine with WP is
CJ> that F1 does *not* mean Help, for instance.

LOL . . . yeah, I've been there.  What I find odd is that
there are actually configuration packets available that make
it mimic major WPs, like WP, Wordstar, etc.  That would be
too odd for me.

CJ> Yeah, I'm going to have to make that decision.  Time. . . .
CJ> It's going to get worse when I get off my ass and get that new
CJ> computer.  I already bought 30 or so CD-ROMs for the thing, and
CJ> over a dozen are collections of programs!
RS> Better hurry before memory goes back up . . .
CJ> Or before I forget what was supposed to be the fascination
CJ> with the "Lace and Lingerie" CD.

And you're such a young man . . . 

CJ> Offhand, I can think of two Edens.  One is a town in
CJ> Wyoming that's supposed to be good hunting for jade, but is
CJ> otherwise a ghost town in a truly godforsaken desert.
RS> That's the one I'd be interested in . . .
CJ> You'd have to be a true-blue desert rat.  I am, but only if
CJ> there's interesting scenery visible, say within 10 miles.  Eden,
CJ> Wyoming doesn't qualify.

Ah!  I love collecting minerals, especially fossils.  I
loved Barstow California, and I understand that nobody likes
Barstow . . .

CJ> There's also an Eden Literary Agency in Colorado.
CJ> From the experience of people who've been involved with them,
CJ> they ask upfront fees, do nothing for the year's contract, and
CJ> then send you a contract with a "publisher" (Commonwealth, in
CJ> Canada) who will publish you for only 4 thousand dollars... the
CJ> agent getting their cut of that fee.
RS> Screw that . . . vanity publishers . . . pah!
CJ> Read Umberto Eco's *Foucalt's Pendulum* for a great account
CJ> of the predatory psychology of vanity publishers--and the clients
CJ> who give them their name.

I'll make a note of it.

CJ> OTOH, there are worse things than getting naked, calling
CJ> animals names, munching fruit, and having a woman talk to my
CJ> snake.
RS> Oh yes.
CJ> Long as I can adjust to solar exposure. . . .

And can get over the pain in the ribs . . .


... Absence of evidence means . . . uh . . . no evidence.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Curtis Johnson
|Sub:  Re: Terminology
|Date: 23 Jan 97  22:14:00
EID:258f 2237b1c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e828f8
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Curtis Johnson said to Richard Smith about RE: TERMINOLOGY:

CJ> fundies).  Once, when I ran across an old,
CJ> out-of-copyright translation of Enoch in a library I had a
CJ> dream of making a reasonable income from distributing it
CJ> as shareware.  But the  effort of doing a decent job
CJ> (hypertexting it, commentary) dissuaded me.  Not to
CJ> mention the initial investment of photocopying the page
CJ> (c. 125 bucks in photocopying) and time.
RS> Couldn't check it out and have it xeroxed elsewhere?  Around
RS> here, I can get copies for four cents per.  Get a decent
RS> xeros, and scan in the text, then all you'd have to do would
RS> be to do the proofing (a mind-numbing task, true, but not
RS> awful for anyone who's a REAL English Major . . . Jimson
RS> Staalin take note: your eyes would burn outta your head) and
RS> then putting in the links . . .
CJ> Nope, it was in the reference section.  The library charges
CJ> 25/c page.
RS> Man, I HATE that attitude at libraries . . . well, it WOULD
RS> be a business expense, I suppose . . .
CJ> Yeah, but it would sure eat into likely profits.
CJ> Copyright's pretty strange.  The reference one I'm talking
CJ> about is clearly out of copyright by anybody's standards.
CJ> However, the standard translation is by RH Charles, which would be
CJ> a Brit translation, and they just passed a law extending the
CJ> translation, which throws int'l copyright law into a tizzy.

That's too odd for me . . .

CJ> Scanning of xeroxes, I understand, is quite productive of
CJ> errors.  At some point, if you're a fast and accurate typist, it's
CJ> equally productive to type it in yourself.
CJ> As far as proofing, again it depends on time--but what I've
CJ> thought might be a good strategy is a file compare between two
CJ> different typists, especially if perfect accuracy is a criterion.
RS> That would work too . . .
CJ> Yow, now I have to compare file compare programs!
CJ> I know there's at least a magnitude of difference between
CJ> them, DOS's almost always sucking the bottom.

Doesn't it in everything?

CJ> I have about 5 different hypertext programs that I never
CJ> got around to evaluating, none HTML.  Not necessarily a bad thing,
CJ> if I were to be distributing, since they do include their run-time
CJ> engines and the incompatability would preclude their piracy
CJ> without especially inconveniencing the legitimate customers.
CJ> Putting in the links for anything besides footnotes is
CJ> where the judgement calls and writing commentary comes in. . .
CJ> IOW, making my bread besides the scut effort.
CJ> Another big problem, besides a translation already being
CJ> available on web sites (although not hypertexted) is that the
CJ> authoritative translation/commentary (by RH Charles) is itself
CJ> only a couple of years from being out-of-copyright here in the US.
CJ> (Although Great Britain has passed some bizarre legislation
CJ> extending copyright within the UK *only*.  Pity.  If I could hire
CJ> keyboarders, I had dreams of doing the full-blown *Golden Bough.*)
RS> That would be hot.  
CJ> With my luck, it would be just over the 660 Mb limit for
CJ> CD-ROMS. Particularly if one added into the corrections, etc. for
CJ> the variant spellings, much less a few lines just about who were
CJ> the folks names.

Just put the index and appendixes on another CD.  I'd buy
and use such a two-CD set!  Especially now that they have
multiple CD changers for computers.

CJ> Anyhoo, if you can get into a search engine (I can't--I
CJ> can't even put in a URL!) try "Todeth Jesu."  It's a hoot.
CJ> Judas  as hero--he manages to "defile" Jesus in mid-air.
CJ> Jesus worked  miracles because he stole the secret name of
CJ> G-D (guarded in the  Temple by amnesia-working lion
CJ> statues; Jesus gets around this by  writing the Name down
CJ> in a slip of papyrus he inserts into a cut  in his flesh);
CJ> and much other stuff I'm too lazy to even mention.
RS> LOL . . . I'll look for it . . .
CJ> I sorta liked near the beginning, when the rabbis saw
CJ> that Jesus was wearing his head uncovered in shul, and the rabbis
CJ> said, "Uh-oh, we got a bad one here."
RS> When I first looked at this, I thought you'd typed `rabbits'
RS> . . . and was even MORE amused . . .
CJ> Silly Richard, tricks are for Smiths!

LOL . . . no, that would be the OLDEST profession.  Smithing
is third or second eldest . . .

CJ> And the ending:  because the followers of Jesus are such
CJ> a big pain, Peter/Paul are commissioned specifically by Jews to
CJ> lead them out of Judaism!
RS> Run away, run away . . . !
CJ> Usually dated to 6th century--great entertainment/polemic,
CJ> at any rate.

And esoteric enough to confound others . . .

CJ>         Shit, when I get my full I-net connection and can
CJ> d/l these  weird text files....
RS> Keep us informed.  At the least, it'll piss off the fundies.
CJ> Most of whom remain unaware that there's loads of other
CJ> texts about Jesus besides the Big 4 Gossips.
RS> It's fun to confound them with those sorts of things,
RS> though.
CJ> Payprys Egerton 2--dated (c. 110-130) to the big 4 Gs, but
CJ> has some stuff not in the 4Gs!  That's the same, if not earlier,
CJ> for the first ms evidence for the Big 4 Gs!

I'm currently looking for material on some religious group
that came around the other day trying to sell/give away
their magazine.  It's title was AWAKE . . . would they be
Morons or Jehovah's Witlesses?  They didn't stick around
long enough for me to find out.  (I've been very cranky in
my unpacking lately . . .)


... Smile big and wide.  It will confound your enemies.            Bageard
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Curtis Johnson
|Sub:  Re: Religious Comments
|Date: 23 Jan 97  22:22:02
EID:1032 2237b2c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e82ada
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Curtis Johnson said to Richard Smith about RE: RELIGIOUS COMMENTS:

RS> BTW, nice hard drive crash.  Going to use that excuse
RS> again sometime?  
kw> Another computer illiterate! Anyone who thinks hard drives
kw> never crash is a total computer illiterate. I'll bet you
kw> have someone else going online for you and running your
kw> programs. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!
RS> Ever notice how, when in a tight spot and caught in an
RS> obvious lie, Ken trots out the hyperbole and makes a
RS> grandstand production of it?  Methinks he doth protest too
RS> much . . .
CJ> Next he'll be telling us that assumptions that he didn't
CJ> have a HD crash are all wrong because he knows Hebrew.
RS> Well, that works only for the consonants of the textfiles on
RS> that drive . . .
CJ> I wonder if he've noticed that Hebrew consonants look like
CJ> a flame.  And if he lives in flames...isn't he in hell?

Either that, or he's lighting his farts again.  Is he still
around?

CJ>         Could you please explain to this computer illiterate
CJ> why,  if took only 4 days to "get back to normal," as you
CJ> said in your post  to Shelby Sherman in this packet, your
CJ> absence from here was so  much longer?
RS> Easy.  We'd asked questions he COULDN'T answer.  For
RS> instance, I bet a beer that he's not going to get back to us
RS> at all about Cassandra in Troy predicting the fall of Troy.
CJ> Or that he'll last the round on whoever it was that
CJ> wanted to go over Genesis with him verse by verse?
CJ> "Oops!  I got a virus!"
RS> LOL.
CJ> I'll take you up on that bet if you buy the next round!
RS>  How about if whoever wins it buys the next round?
CJ> Well, the first verse has been advanced to him.
CJ> I've been drinking my 2nd malt, so I've forget who already
CJ> who was supposed to be advanced to who.
CJ> OTOH, I've read ahead in Genesis and forgot whose wife was
CJ> being swapped with whose.  Maybe that cute bartrendess is
CJ> suffering from the same amnesia?

Well, I'll buy the next round, then.  Maybe we can get the
bartendress to lapdance . . .

RS> A hard drive crash is most convenient, since it allows him to
RS> cut out those posts he didn't want to answer.  His idea that
RS> his backup only partially worked doesn't wash well either.
RS> No, he's just a liar, and not a particularly bright one at
RS> that.
CJ> *Some* knowledge, but no idea of how to work the data.
RS> Worse than that . . . he didn't have a `hard drive crash'
RS> until someone wondered out loud here if he'd had one, and if
RS> that could be the reason we haven't heard from him.  I think
RS> he got scared and just stopped posting, having no real
RS> arguments . . . and fumed about it . . . then when given a
RS> chance to come back and save face  he jumped at it.
RS> He, of course, was dead wrong . . . and if he could hear how
RS> hard people are laughing at him, he'd quail even more . . .
CJ> I especially enjoy the way he's been lecturing to
CJ> everybody, as if a hard drive crash explains why he's been able
CJ> to post to RIME instead of FIDO.
CJ> The dolt should've been able to remember that I'd posted to
CJ> him here about his post in RIME calling somebody's opinion
CJ> 'horseshit'--he'd been picking up bad and verboten habits from us
CJ> "heathens"....

He has a consistent problem with short term memory.  And his
brain is missing.  OR he thinks we are all as stupid as he
is.

CJ>         And this computer illiterate is most curious as to
CJ> how a  hard disk crash can affect only one network, since
CJ> you continued  to post in RIME-RELIGION during the interim
RS> Easy.  He's lying.  Apply O's Razor yourself . . . 
CJ> Shucks, I was trying to be polite to the man!
RS> Sure, but he'll never answer this . . . 
CJ> Yeah, but we're *unbelieving* computer illiterates, so we'll
CJ> never be able to understand why he chose to post on R-RELGION for
CJ> weeks before returning here as a consequence of his hard disk
CJ> crash.

I just suspect that he's a lying sack of shit.  I'm a simple
man when it comes to such things . . .

RS> Ken Wiens advocates murdering 12-year old rape victims
RS> who abort. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
kw> More heathen misinformation. ken Wiens advocates executing
kw> anyone who is responsible for murdering the unborn child.
CJ>         Uh, Ken, weren't you just a couple of messages
CJ> raking folks  over the coals for saying that if a killing
CJ> was legal, then it  wasn't murder?  Weren't you saying that
CJ> it would be murder anyway?
RS> Yep.  How is it that fundies have selective memory?  Is
RS> something wrong inside their head?  Or are they intentional
RS> liars?
CJ> It's a short-circuit.  If it's for God it's good, and hang
CJ> the logic--and anybody who disagrees.
RS> How childish.
CJ> Yep--you've already seen his message that because he said
CJ> it wasn't murder, it can't be murder, because those 12-year-old
CJ> bitch whore sluts had a rebellious heart in them.

Yeah, I saw it.  Imagine even suggesting that a rape victim
deserved it . . .

CJ> Robin Lane Fox's PAGANS  AND CHRISTIANS, p. 351:
CJ>         "Abortion was a more complex matter.  The Mosaic law
CJ> had  punished it, if it harmed the mother:  when Exodous was
CJ> translated  into Greek, the translators introduced a
CJ> concern...varying with its  status as a formed or unformed
CJ> embryo.  Most of the early Christian  texts attack abortion
CJ> simply as 'murder of the creation of God'  [[CJ--N.B.:  not
CJ> as simply murder]], but some do stop to wonder  when exactly
CJ> the embryo is a living thing.  In essence, they then  follow
CJ> this Greek distinction of two stages in its existence."
CJ>         I would think that you would find Exodus 21:22-23
CJ> most  enlightening.  Compare the penalties for
CJ> "embryoslaughter" (my  neologism from manslaughter") to
CJ> something like cussing out your  old man (a couple of verses
CJ> above).
RS> Expect more fume and holler . . . 
CJ> What, make them *read* their Bible?
RS> It would seem to be the only *fair* thing to do . . . after
RS> all, WE had to read it . . .
CJ> You've already read the reply--OK to kill everybody in
CJ> sight.  

Yep.  And he suggests that my posts about Xtian atrocities
are in error . . .

RS> ... Ken Wiens believes that the Deluge happened during the time of
RS> Moses. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
CJ> I read that message.  And this is from the dude who feels
CJ> that because he knows Hebrew, we can't argue with him about the
CJ> OT?  

Might as well just make it an IV drip.  I sometimes think
that Jimson's more intelligent than Whines is, in some ways.


... Murder/rape/etc., are better than being controlled/lobotomized.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Curtis Johnson
|Sub:  Re: Goodbye
|Date: 23 Jan 97  22:27:04
EID:ebbb 2237b360
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e82c08
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Curtis Johnson said to Richard Smith about RE: GOODBYE:

CJ>    Also, you were up and posting again without any change in
CJ> character.
CJ>        Psychologically?  Well, Nick, you don't exactly have a
CJ> clean record in being honest about yourself with us.  In fact, it
CJ> would be quite in character.
CJ>     It would also be quite in character that you would think it
CJ> funny, or several other motives.
CJ>        That this was the wrong audience for your "note" is
CJ> obvious.  Not only because it failed to provoke an outpouring of
CJ> "Gee, maybe we were too hard on him," but if your purported
CJ> reason was correct, you would have been writing the note to your
CJ> ex-girlfriend.
SdC> Well, listen up...despite your words and research the
SdC> event did happen, and no the dosage was not fatal, but
SdC> it did screw my hearing up and made me feel like hell
SdC> itself.  The "b" was just a mistake I think, it
SdC> doesn't matter.  I went to the hospital and spent the
SdC> night there until they were sure I was ok.  I had to
SdC> drink a charcoal liquid which from what they said,
SdC> would neutralize the medication.  I was hooked up to
SdC> an intraveinous line until 6:00 the next morning and
SdC> was released just after.
CJ> I'm glad you've adopted a reasonable tone.
CJ> Your account was *almost* plausible, but:
CJ> 1) Charcoal doesn't "neutralize," it adsorbs.
RS> Exactly.  Thusly, hardly plausible in this scenario.
CJ> Yep.  A supposed Astronomy major would know that.

But a poser wannabee wouldn't . . .

CJ> 2) Your original note did not speak of a single medicine,
CJ> but of a mix of medicines.  I also note that you've been
CJ> remarkably non-specific about what you supposedly ingested.
RS> Ex-Lax and Tums.  Oh, yeah, and Stutters had a Mountain Dew
RS> [tm] too . . .
CJ> Antihistimines and aspirins--yep, a recipe from somebody
CJ> who say they know what they're doing!!

I ruled him/her out for this long ago . . .

CJ> 3) Attempted suicides don't usually get released that
CJ> quickly and easily.
RS> Out here, they have to remain in the hospital for three or
RS> more days for observation.  No way he'd be released before
RS> nine or ten the following morning, either . . .
RS> He's pretty pathetic.
CJ> Whether he was sincere or trying to BS us--yep, either way
CJ> he is pathetic.

I think he should be the poster child for pathetic,
personally.  Maybe Mabon will relinquish the position.

RS> ... Y'all are wannabees, frightened of any criticism.
RS>       -- Clayton Davis
CJ> Eyow!  Scary that applies to anyone, even if that anyone is
CJ> Nick R.!

LOL . . . yeah, ol' Clayton is in the Writing echo at the
moment, or he was a month ago, annoying a whole new crowd of
folks . . .


... Freedom of speech allows the freedom to screech!  -- Clayton Davis
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 252/140
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666
SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
SEEN-BY: 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10
SEEN-BY: 733/1 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Curtis Johnson
|Sub:  Re: Hard Disk Crash
|Date: 23 Jan 97  22:32:06
EID:e0cc 2237b400
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e82d36
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Curtis Johnson said to Richard Smith about RE: HARD DISK CRASH:

kw> I have just recently went thru a Hard Disk Crash. I lost
kw> all data Drive. I had quite a few messages from the good
kw> folk on this Conf that were lost. Thus I have to pretty
kw> much start from scratch. I only one packet I was able to
kw> save from a limited tape backup. An from that packet are
kw> being sent with this message. We'll pretty m have to
kw> start over from here.
kw> Why one packet was successfully restored and others not
kw> from the I do not know. I just bought the Tape Backup
kw> Drive a few weeks ag Even some of my regular programs
kw> were not successfully restored while others were.
CJ> Odd.  This didn't seem to stop you from posting in
CJ> R-RELIGION at all in the interim.
kw> I don't find it odd at all. It was very unpleasant. The
kw> two programs I restored first were my Pro Com Plus
kw> Communications Suite and my Offline Reader. At least
kw> with those two I could resume BBS activity right away. I
kw> just could not recover certain Qwk packets I mention
kw> above. I still do not know why one packet recovered
kw> nicely and the other did not. Both were backed up on the
kw> same tape. This even happened with several of my regular
kw> programs: One recovered nicely from the tape and the
kw> other did not. I had to go back to the original CD's and
kw> floppies to recover certain programs.
RS> I believe that the Kenster is using the old `Act of God'
RS> defense here . . . and badly, too . . .
CJ> Maybe God didn't wan't him to continue post his
CJ> self-serving misinterpretations? Maybe God after all thinks
CJ> there's something scummy about advocating the killing of
CJ> raped 12-year-olds in His name?

I wish God would be a bit more direct, then . . .

kw> I have very
kw> limited experience with tape backups. I bought this one
kw> on Sept. 9 at Comp USA. At any rate, once I recovered my
RS> September 9th?  Consider that in his message to David
RS> Worrell he wrote:
>kw> There was no lie and I don't know why anyone would think there
>kw> was. I bought the tape backup (a Pertec brand "My Tape Backup"
RS>      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>kw> holding 800 megs compressed on Sept. 8 at 1:25 P.M. at the
RS>                             ^^^^^^^^^^
>kw> Comp USA in Mission Viejo, Calif.). I got weary of having to
>kw> always restore everything from floppies. The Tape Backup was
>kw> a good deal because it sold for 89.99 and had a 40 dollar
>kw> mail in rebate with it.
RS>  Interesting, eh?
CJ> Whazzamaatter, you don't think Ken's God has the power to
CJ> plop him a day back just so he can confound you heathen with his
CJ> time-traveling software?

I don't think Whines's Deity has the power to pull apart
Velcro . . .

CJ> But if you've been checking out my SX lines, you'll see who
CJ> has the *real* time-traveling software.
CJ> And who, I would suppose, therefore has God on their side.

I just assume those were quantum SX lines . . .

kw> communications package and my offline reader I
kw> immediately got right back on Rime Religion, my favorite
kw> Conference since around 1990 or so.
kw> Your comments above caused that heathen "goof" Worrell
kw> to state I was lying about the hard disk crash and
kw> the recovery I went thru. It did take me four full
kw> days to reinstall all of my programs and get everything
kw> set up and back to normal. That was no fun and I would
kw> gain nothing by lying about that.
RS> Except time, and an excuse to not answer questions too tough
RS> for him . . .
CJ> So, Ken--why did you come back here with the excuse of a
CJ> hard crash, after you've been posting in another conference for
CJ> two weeks or so?

Uhm, he didn't realize what a tired old excuse it was?  


... According to Ken Wiens, Jesus Christ is a moron.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Curtis Johnson
|Sub:  Re: Holysmoke.
|Date: 23 Jan 97  22:39:08
EID:f171 2237b4e0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e82edc
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Curtis Johnson said to Richard Smith about RE: HOLYSMOKE.:

CJ>         He'll learn if he actually does go through the
CJ> public  self-injection of HIV.  Pity that it'll take him a
RS> Agreed, though my feeling is that he has no intention of
RS> getting exposed at all to HIV.  Recently he was screaming
RS> again about the new home HIV tests.  Talk about not wanting
RS> people to be informed . . .
CJ>        I wonder if maybe he's already tested positive and
CJ> is  in really acute denial.
RS> From things he's said, his sisters have been involved in
RS> shady dealings and drugs, etc., so I assume that this may
RS> extend to a family member that acquired it as well.  Who
RS> knows.  It could be that he just wants to kill off a lot of
RS> excess people so he and other survivalists like Terry
RS> Liberty-Parker will have a looser, more relaxed society.
RS> Scarey to think about, itsn't it?  
CJ> Although the "Mexican mafia" angle might just be his way of
CJ> dealing with those who disagree with him, a threat he's used
CJ> before.
RS> Granted.  And a singularly ineffective one at that . . .
CJ> Somehow I get the impression that the "Mexican mafia"
CJ> is much more willing to die over profits, etc. than
CJ> the M Martinez virological theory. . . .

I thought that perhaps the cholo boys had gotten waylaid by
a blinking red light or something . . .

"Hey, mon, now it says go . . . no wait, now stop . . . now
go, mon . . . no, wait . . . what is with this puta anyway!"

RS> That and an anti-authority attitude.  I think it may also be
RS> sour grapes.
CJ> It is a topic that attract those with thin
CJ> rationalizations, though.
RS>  And thinner brains . . .
CJ> Dare you introduce him to Velikovsky?

That last thing I want to do is to make him another Laurie .
. . . . 


... Martinez on AIDS:    you can have all the sex you want, you won't die.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Don Martin
|Sub:  Believer
|Date: 23 Jan 97  22:40:10
EID:de22 2237b500
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e82f1a
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Don Martin said to Richard Smith about BELIEVER:

CJ> the eunuchs had fun with the harem and removed only the testicles
CJ> so that no children would be fathered; the other did care, and
CJ> those eunuchs had underwent a complete amputation.
KS> Yow.  The old peckerectomy, eh?
DM>     Let's not talk chop.
RS> My, that was a cutting remark . . .
DM> Apparently, you had not yet seen Hitt's "Black and Decker Pecker
DM> Wrecker" when you wrote that. Cringe City.

No, but I have heard a joke with a similar punchline . . .


... J. Dahlmer on the Bobbits:  Hmmm, a bun and some mustard, please.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Shelby Sherman
|Sub:  lawsuit
|Date: 23 Jan 97  22:42:12
EID:dc3b 2237b540
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e82f94
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Shelby Sherman said to Richard Smith about lawsuit:

SS> 18 Oct 96 22:50, quoting Richard Smith to My Friend Flicka:
MFF> I'm shocked.
RS> So, is that a nay vote?
SS> Please stop.  I've threatened to kill Leipzig for less.

Hay, I'm just feeling my oats.  


... FACT: There are more horse's asses than there are horses.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Karl Schneider
|Sub:  The Fundy Fade?
|Date: 23 Jan 97  22:45:14
EID:a0e8 2237b5a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e8304a
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Karl Schneider said to Richard Smith about The Fundy Fade?:

DS>obviously paid to type it.
KS> Hey, fundy, wake up!  Marty (to whom you replied), didn't
KS> write that.
KS> I did.
KS> What's a 'thir-grader'?
RS> A lisping person (probably a Bottom) who grades Tops,
RS> obviously.  Get with the program, Karl . . . 
KS> Well, that'th dithguthting!

Some people like it, I hear . . . 

DS>The only problem with this is that ink stains.  The blood of Jesus
DS>removes the stain of sin.
KS> You mean it'll remove cum spots from the walls?
RS> Haven't you ever been asked to cum to Jesus to find out?
KS> Actually, I have, I'm just not sure I want a beard tickling my gonads.

Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewwwwwwwwwwwww . . .

RS> Of course, one doesn't really need such a certificate.  One
RS> can tell just by reading him.
KS> Like a dime novel.

With the last page missing . . .


... I don't suffer from insanity.  I enjoy every minute of it.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Karl Schneider
|Sub:  I do hope you are all ta
|Date: 23 Jan 97  22:48:16
EID:6e9c 2237b600
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e83100
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Karl Schneider said to Richard Smith about I do hope you are all ta:

DC> Unless I have my information wrong, sweatbreads have by far
^^^^^^^^^^
DC> the  least amount of cholesterol.  (Damn, that word is as
DC> hard for  me to type as it is to say!)  Seriously, I got
KS> York.  I just now noticed:  Dan said 'sweatbreads'!!!!  Now
KS> there's a delicacy I plan to forego...
RS> I don't blame you.  While I do like some organ meats
RS> (kidneys, gizzards, heart, tongue) there are others that I
RS> either know from experience (pancreas) or just by considering
RS> them (brains, rocky mountain oysters) that I will probably
RS> not like.
KS> I would be willing to bet you would like mountain oysters.  We
KS> just had the annual bull-ball festival here.  (True.  In the
KS> town of Vinita just north of here).

Well, I might try them . . . though I understand that it
takes a lot of balls to go to that festival . . . 

KS> Actually, I like 'turkey fries' even more.  They really are delicious.

????  Uhm, if I ask what they are, is it going to repulse
me?  

RS> I've got a really decent Transylvanian cookbook.  It's Paul
RS> Kovi's Transylvanian Cuisine, ISBN 0-517-55698-7, put out by
RS> Crown Books.  Mr. Kovi believes (as apparently do some
RS> others) that the Transylvanians are descended from Moses'
RS> Disciples , alternatively called the Sekler people.
RS> Here's a recipe from it . . . :
RS>        Lamb Head Soup From Szilagysag (Ibid p. 94)
RS>        (Szilagysagi Baranyfejleves)
KS> I almost have an actual photograph of this.  But it's a goat's
KS> head.  You know, from the Stones album...?

I don't like soup that watches me, personally.

RS>        Stuffed Bear's Foot, Ibid p. 61
KS> Oh, gross...

I wonder where one get's bear's feet nowadays . . .


... ORGANIST TO GIVE ST. JOHN'S RECTAL. -- real headline (Richard Lederer)
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Marilyn Burge
|Sub:  Legislating Morality
|Date: 23 Jan 97  22:53:18
EID:1fd7 2237b6a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e8322e
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Marilyn Burge said to Richard Smith about Legislating Morality:

MB> On (17 Oct 96) Richard Smith wrote to Ken Wiens...
RS>  O dan blangroen Duw
RS>  nid oes Ken, Dave, na Legislating Morality . . .
DH> And how effective has it been? How many fewer
DH> gays are there? How many fewer gay relationships?
kw> It has been very effective. If any gay couples attempt to get
kw> married they are do so illegaly. If a minister attempts to
kw> marry them it is also illegal.
RS> I happen to be a priest, FYI, and I would gladly marry any
RS> couple that requested it that were not already married.
RS> FYI.  Now scorn me, bigot.
MB> Being as all those gays came out of heterosexual marriages to
MB> begin with, maybe we ought to ban het marriages in order to get
MB> them to quit making all those homos.

I saw a book a few years ago that was a collection of the
best grafitti from all over the world and throughout
history.  (True, they had some funny Roman grafitti in it.)

One of my favorites was the following:

On a men's room stall wall:

My mother made me a homosexual.

Underneath that:

If I got her the wool, would she make one for me?


... Birefringence is caused by homoaxial sectors, not homosexual actors.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Stutters The Clown
|Sub:  Pussy little satanist
|Date: 23 Jan 97  22:57:20
EID:1a67 2237b720
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e83320
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Stutters the Clown said to Richard Smith about Pussy little satanist:

StC> No, it gives brain-dead, incompetent little faggots like
StC> David Worrel
RS> You know, David, it sounds like Stutters has got a major
RS> crush on you, doesn't it?    I mean, this is clearly wish
RS> fulfillment going on here . . .
StC> something to point his finger at when it's not
StC> up his nose or in his ass.
RS> How Freudian.  Yep, he's clearly got the hots for you.  I
RS> think it's because you talk to him tough.  He's clearly a
RS> bottom . . . };)
StC> And you Dick, are clearly deluded.  Keep your fudge packing
StC> comments to yourself.  We don't wish to know what you do in
StC> your spare time.

Ah, you know what they say about fags, er, people who
protest too much, Ma Lady . . . 

StC> Maliethorn

Maggothead


... You are cattle to me feeble one, begone! - Malady|Ooga Booga - Richard
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Stutters The Clown
|Sub:  Stutters' PseudoSuicide
|Date: 23 Jan 97  23:00:22
EID:a8b8 2237b800
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e833d6
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Stutters the Clown said to Richard Smith about Stutters' PseudoSuicide:

StC> I do not live in Tampa, there was no police involved.
RS> Since doctors are mandated by law to report all suicide
RS> attempts, and since suicide is still illegal, a policeman
RS> would have to be involved.  I believe our fair-hair boychick
RS> has conveniently shot himself in the foot.  I do believe,
RS> also, that one must be kept for at least three days before
RS> one can be released, just for observation, after a suicide
RS> attempt.
StC> It doesn't matter what Dick here thinks, my family was
StC> aware of it, my family doctor was aware of it and several
StC> friends are aware of what happened.

Hell, everyone's aware of it, Ma Lady.  Is there some poor
schmuck you DIDN'T buttonhole and try to get sympathy from
with that old pathetic story?

StC> I guess the emergency room doctors were kept in the dark,

They would have to be, to treat you, Ma Lady.

StC> since my parents talked
StC> to them and not me.  You really have absolutely no idea
StC> what you are talking about, dick.

Don't be mad at me because your parents can't stand you, Ma
Lady.

StC> Maliethorn

Mallomar . . .


... I not insecure about ANYTHING!-NickR.     Not even your grammer?- AlS.
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Ed Mills
|Sub:  Yahweh sent me some m
|Date: 23 Jan 97  23:03:24
EID:d198 2237b860
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e8348c
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ed Mills said to Richard Smith about Yahweh sent me some m:

EM> And I can't tell the difference between Scotch and Bourbon.
RS>  Uh, oh . . . I smell a jihaad coming on . . . time to duck
RS>  and cover, Ed . . . 
EM>          Or perhaps just a fatwah, in which case nobody else
EM> has to worry,     thank goodness.     :)
RS>  Fatwah?
EM> Highly intelligent Islamic practice of sentencing someone to
EM> death in absentia. The famous one was Dumbfuck Assholeatollah
EM> Khomeini's contract on Salman Rushdie's head. Poetically, Khomeini
EM> croaked without realizing his dream, thereby disproving the
EM> theorem  that "no news is good news."    :)

Ah, yes . . . I remember them dancing with his body at his
funeral.  Where did he ever end up at, and was he mostly
intact when tossed in the dirt?  


... "Bother," said Pooh, as he helped Crowley crib from Rousseau . . .
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Marilyn Burge
|Sub:  We Got A Live One, Peopl
|Date: 23 Jan 97  23:05:26
EID:7bcd 2237b8a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e83506
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Marilyn Burge said to Richard Smith about We Got A Live One, Peopl:

js> Unwelcome to you?  Or do you speak for all?
RS> OH my, he's a bright one, isn't he?
JB> Ten to one J. Shaughnessy is another 'Joanna'.
RS>  Could be.  At this point, it might almost be a sucker bet.
MB> It seems to me we had a J.B. Shaughnessy in here a few
MB> years back.  I suspect this is the same "guy."

Well, I guess we have to go buy more henbane, then . . .


... How DARE you take advantage of MY blithering idiot!  -- Ren
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Marilyn Burge
|Sub:  Abuse Of Imagined Power
|Date: 23 Jan 97  23:06:28
EID:3ce1 2237b8c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e83544
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Marilyn Burge said to Richard Smith about Abuse Of Imagined Power:

RS>  ... (gentile smile) = Al Schroeder condescending to a Jew.
RB> ...  = Al Schroeder condescending to a penis.
RS>  LOL . . . stolen!  And it made me think of THIS one:
RS>  ...  = Al Schroeder born that way.
MB>  = Al Schroeder in a Thousand and One Knights.

And I'll take that one as well . . . thanx!


... Yes, to some people, I AM patronizing. I have REASON to be.A.Schroeder
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Marilyn Burge
|Sub:  word of whom?
|Date: 23 Jan 97  23:09:30
EID:9650 2237b920
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e835fa
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Marilyn Burge said to Richard Smith about word of whom?:

MB> On (18 Oct 96) Richard Smith wrote to Alan Hess...
RS>  O dan blangroen Duw
RS>  nid oes Alan, Shelby, na word of whom? . . .
ah> Whilst masticating on , Shelby Sherman (1:123/67)
ah> wrote to Jim Staal:
SS> GE 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
ah> Supposedly, the Bible is the word of God.  If you are
ah> writing a story about your actions, or dictating such a
ah> story for transcription, wouldn't you say, "In the
ah> beginning I created....."  "And I saw that it was good."
ah> Etc., etc.?  Why would a supreme being not talk about
ah> itself in the first person?
RS>  Alan, the above is not first person.  First person would
RS>  read:
RS>  "GE 1:1  In the beginning I created the heavens and the
RS>           earth."
RS>  See the difference?
MB> That's exactly what he said.  Read it again.

Yep, I had a brainfart.  I was flashing on it as it was
actually in the Bible (Third Person) AND what Shelby had
said . . . I hate it when that happens.


... Hmmm...Hastur, He who must not be named --oops$%*&# NO CARRIER
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  (PIDO) AIDS Education Pa
|Date: 23 Jan 97  23:11:32
EID:5a53 2237b960
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e83674
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dan Ceppa said to Richard Smith about (PIDO) AIDS Education Pa:

RS> Nairobi, August 31, 1996
RS> AIDS EDUCATION PAMPHLETS BURNED
DC> Was the rallying cry, "Let's kill them all and let god sort
DC> them out"?
RS> If not, perhaps it should have been.  I can't get over the
RS> chutzpah this demonstrates . . . almost as though Cardinal
RS> Otunga (who probably didn't deserve the rank and should have
RS> been demoted to a Wren) somehow thought himself and other
RS> priests/etc., immune from the virus.
DC> They are...  They have god on their side.

Well, I wish them good luck with the virus then . . .

RS> Sigh.  It still boggles my mind.  How can people be so
RS> monumentally stupid, time after time after time after bloody
RS> time . . . ?
DC> Faith does that to you.  You no longer have to think for yourself.
DC> In the Cardinal's case, he _has_ to ignore what the priests and 
DC> bishops below him are doing on the side.  It's like the code of 
DC> honor you take when you are initiated to any fraternity.  

It still doesn't translate to me.  It's incomprehensible . . .

DC> I was lucky.  I joined GDI when I was in school.  

GDI?


... Anything that kills you makes you . . . well, dead.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005

|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  I do hope you are all ta
|Date: 23 Jan 97  23:13:34
EID:d848 2237b9a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e836ee
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dan Ceppa said to Richard Smith about I do hope you are all ta:

DC> Unless I have my information wrong, sweatbreads have by far
DC> the  least amount of cholesterol.  (Damn, that word is as
RS> Brains . . . sweetbreads on the package . . . are high in
DC> You get them packaged?  With all the info?  I'll have to check
DC> at the grocery the next time I'm there.  

Just the average butcher label with the breakdown of fats,
carbos, etc . . .

RS> certain types of Cholesterol according to my wife, who just
RS> finished a brain physiology course in college.  FYI.
DC> Perhaps she was studying fundy brains.  I'm sure the fat content
DC> of them would go off of the scale.  

No, she didn't mention any microscopes . . .


... Caution:  Blown Brain At Work!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Ken Whines
|Sub:  Re: Hard Disk Crash
|Date: 23 Jan 97  23:14:36
EID:32e6 2237b9c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e8372c
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Whines said to Richard Smith about Re: Hard Disk Crash:

CJ> knew he had to be good.  That was the same message in
CJ> which you talked about a change in orbital period
CJ> lengthening a day and in which you asked about a book
CJ> about the "vapor canopy."
RS> Is this true, do you honestly think that changing the
RS> orbital period of the Earth would affect the length of days
RS> here?  Man, how stupid can you BE?
kw> If you are going to respond to something I have said
kw> get it first hand from me. Otherwise refrain from
kw> responding.

Bite me, you cheap montebank.


... What you forget is that no one has a right to live.  -- Ken Wiens
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Ken Whines
|Sub:  execute her ?
|Date: 23 Jan 97  23:18:38
EID:dad9 2237ba40
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e8381e
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Whines said to Richard Smith about execute her ?:

G>-Light and Sweet Water
G> -Grayhawk
kw>So, which heathen Indian tribe did you come from and which
kw>teepee did you crawl out from under? Being in the Sun too
kw>much has evidenlty cooked your brains.
RS>You know Ken, I'm about to do something that I rarely have
RS>to do: admit to having made a mistake.  And it was a big
RS>one.  I know that, as a Xtian, you'll forgive me for doing
RS>it too . . . or rather, you'll forgive my ancestors, for
RS>they were the ones that did it.  At least you can see that
RS>I'm man enough to admit to a mistake:
RS>We should never have fed you people that first Winter.
RS>Instead we should have burnt every ship to the water line
RS>that appeared on the horizon.
RS>I'm very sorry.
kw> I should not have said the above.

Why not, you're an ignorant bigoted bottomfeeder.  Everyone
knows that by now.

kw> I said it in a moment
kw> of frustration and anger. I was wrong.

Exactly, you were.  As you continue to be.

kw> However, I find
kw> it odd you would say what you do. Your last name being
kw> Smith you are condemning some of your own ancestors.

None of my forefathers came over on those early ships.
Either we were already here (Mississippi Chocktaw), or we
came over from Ireland, etc., in the early 1800s.  Not all
Smiths are related.


... (Wiens on fairy beliefs):  Sure.  Do you have any reason to doubt him?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Ken Whines
|Sub:  Legislating Morality
|Date: 23 Jan 97  23:22:40
EID:993c 2237bac0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e83910
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Whines said to Richard Smith about Legislating Morality:

DH> And how effective has it been? How many fewer
DH> gays are there? How many fewer gay relationships?
kw> It has been very effective. If any gay couples attempt to get
kw> married they are do so illegaly. If a minister attempts to
kw> marry them it is also illegal.
RS> I happen to be a priest, FYI, and I would gladly marry any
RS> couple that requested it that were not already married.
RS> FYI.  Now scorn me, bigot.
kw> Two things: You would be doing so illegally were you to
kw> marry a gay couple.

Tough nuggies.  Civil disobedience is a good life lesson to
practice.

kw> As such the marriage would not be legally binding or
kw> recognized.

Doesn't matter.  Nobody get's married to be recognized by
the State, people get married to commit their love for one
another.

kw> Second, I am not going
kw> to scorn you. I may believe what you are doing is
kw> morally wrong. But I am not going to scorn you.

LOL . . . oh, SURE . . .


... Evidence that ACTUALLY exists.-Leipzig     Hardly the best kind.-Wiens
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Damien Wellman
|Sub:  Goodbye
|Date: 23 Jan 97  23:24:42
EID:479e 2237bb00
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e8398a
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Damien Wellman said to Richard Smith about Goodbye:

DW> Well, there is that. Admittedly, I've skipped over his recent
DW> posts, tho... laughing that much hurts.
RS> Especially if you have angina, a weak bladder, or tend
RS> towards projectile vomiting . . . 
DW> Good thing I have none of the above, then.

True.  They're especially bad if you have all three . . .


RS> ... Beware of Quantum ducks (Quark!Quark!Quark!)
DW> X TLX v4.00 X + Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Skidmarks, Inc.

I love it.


... QRN:    1. Quantum Religious Nutball.  2. Static (Pointed out by K.S.)
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Quentin Fai
|Sub:  Re: Anti-Abortion Mania
|Date: 24 Jan 97  07:45:44
EID:6e28 22383da0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e8aef8
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Quentin Fai said to Richard Smith about Re: Anti-Abortion Mania:

QF> But, you didn't have to be there.
RS> LOL.  Oh, Quentin, wait until you get married . . . you'll
RS> find out stuff you never knew before . . . 
QF> Not all pregnancies happen within a marriage. (From the scientific
QF> journal, "Duh!", Spring 1992 issue).

No, but you were talking about me, and I WAS married.  
Trust me, I HAD to be there . . .

QF> If you had been a wandering
QF> milkman instead of her husband, you wouldn't have had to be there.

Ah, yes . . . the old story, famed in song and legend . . .

QF> (Me? Married? I think I'll have to meet someone who would
QF> actually be twisted enough to go out with me, first.)

Richard's First Rule of Skewed: There's always at least ONE
person more fucked up than yourself.

QF> While a fetus is gestating, it is, technically, a parasite.
QF> It's only because of the mother's generosity (or religious
QF> programming) that it fully develops.
RS>  Not always, I think.
QF> And, what does the fetus do, besides siphon off nourishment from the
QF> mother, get really big, and then leave in a most painful manner? If
it
QF> wasn't for the fact that it eventually turns into a baby, nobody would
QF> argue against the fetus being a parasite.

Well, first you get this great excuse to eat more than you
usually do.  You also get presents and showers.  And we
haven't even touched on the wonderful hormones that being
pregnant gives you.  Plus, there is that creativity buzz . . .


... Cat Woman Pregnant?!  Holy Bat Kittens, Batman!!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   J. Shaughnessy
|Sub:  Power of god...
|Date: 24 Jan 97  16:10:46
EID:73bd 22388140
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e92556
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
J. Shaughnessy said to David Rice about Power of god...:

Dear fucking ignorant coward:

Below find evidence for your alteration of other people's
posts.  That is not allowed here, and you are courteously
invited to desist, shit-for-brains.

DR> Your one big stupid, ignorant ****. What compelled 
DR> you to come back here and get yet another grubbing?
js> I am?
DR> ... "Your god's an ******* and you are created in his
DR> image." -- Dan
js> My God can beat your god's

Your Deity can't even beat his own meat.


... This tagline is invisible to non-Xtians who don't buttfuck.  Hi J.!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   J. Shaughnessy
|Sub:  Power of God...
|Date: 24 Jan 97  16:14:48
EID:73bd 223881c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e92648
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
J. Shaughnessy said to Shelby Sherman about Power of God...:

js> Ah the perfect lead in question ...  But I will say this...
js> Do not mistake Gods love.  When your heart gives out you
js> will suddenly wish with all your heart you were saved.

Which Gods?

js> The hounds of hell will not be so forgiving as Jesus.

Yeah, but I bet they're paper trained better . . .

js> Here is something for you to ponder... The spirit realm is
js> as real as this temporal realm.

Prove it, Manteca Man . . .

js> Jesus Loves you all!

My awl?  What about my hammer?


... I tried thinking & I fell into the same mess YOU'RE now in. -- J.Amren
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Mike Melia
|Sub:  Re: Baptizing Babies
|Date: 24 Jan 97  16:47:50
EID:37f5 223885e0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e92e06
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Mike Melia said to Shelby Sherman about Re: Baptizing Babies:

SS> 17 Oct 96 17:10, quoting Ken Wiens to Shelby Sherman:
SS> AC 2:38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you,
SS> in name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you
SS> will rec the gift of the Holy Spirit.
SS> It doesn't say, "except for preemies", fundie.
SS> Belly up to the Salad
SS> Bar, Xtian.
KW> Two things: You did not note the context of the passage. Had you
KW> done so you would realize Peter was addressing a crowd of people
KW> whom he counted on to understand what he was saying.
SS> Baloney.  This verse is the cornerstone of some of the largest
SS> sects of the christian cult.
KW> A newborn
KW> baby is not capable of repenting. Peter told the people he was
KW> addressing to repent. Put two and two together. This passage
KW> does not in any way, shape, or form support the practice of
KW> infant baptism.
SS> The passage is very clear.  Blue Cheese or Thousand Island, which
SS> for you?
MM> Shelby, I can't believe you don't see that what Ken has told 
MM> you is true.

Why do you insist that it doesn't mean baptism, when baptism
is very clearly mentioned?  Are you THIS stupid?


... God doesn't cause death, sin does!  -- Mike `Loophole' Melia
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Mike Melia
|Sub:  Re: Kill a Kid for Chris
|Date: 24 Jan 97  16:51:52
EID:a3c4 22388660
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e92ef8
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Mike Melia said to Satan's Son about Re: Kill a Kid for Christ:

MM> examples?  IT CAN"T) so the question is to you Satans 
MM> Bastard, Have you read and understand  the Holy Book?
MM> How about you Dick Smith?  Dan Crapa?  CURTIS TIOLETSON?

Thank you, Mikey, for this excellent example of Xtian love.
This is what, the second time you've done something like
this, ranting at me?  Go away, you ignorant cocksucker.


>~ TLX v4.10 ~ If it isn't love, it isn't Christian!

Oh, this is very telling, even though it comes from another
of your posts.  Hypocrite, huh?


... God doesn't cause death, sin does!  -- Mike `Loophole' Melia
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Stutters The Clown
|Sub:  Maladip's back
|Date: 24 Jan 97  16:54:54
EID:cd41 223886c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e92fae
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Stutters the Clown said to Shelby Sherman about Maladip's back:

StC> I have already stated that I belong to no such organized groups, as
StC> the need is not there.  As for me coming to Memphis, I have no need
StC> for it is clear that your competence would most likely be no greater
StC> in person.  Besides, I despise long trips.
SS> So I assume you prefer to call him a "little faggot" behind the
SS> sanctity of your computer monitor?
StC> Why not?  The arguments at hand are definitely NOT worth my
StC> going to Memphis.  Arguments are just that, arguments.
StC> Evidently David is a hot-head who tries to make up for with
StC> brawn what he lacks in brains. Physical violence is a last
StC> resort for the incompetent.

Cluck, cluck, cluck . . .

StC> Maliethorn

Maggotbreath


... May all your desires be granted at once.  -Ancient Chinese curse
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Don Martin
|Sub:  What webs we weave.
|Date: 24 Jan 97  17:02:56
EID:02d0 22388840
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e93190
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Don Martin said to Ronald Vass about What webs we weave.:

DM> Ronald Vass said "What webs we weave." to Richard Smith, adding: 
RS> It keeps us from crying, sometimes.  Who was it said: life is
RS> a comedy to those who think, a tragedy to those who feel?
DM> Horace Walpole, Fourth Earl of Oxford, in a letter to the
DM> Countess of Upper Ossory, 16 August, 1776, said that. Had he written
DM> it to the Countess of _Lower_ Ossory, probably nobody would remember
DM> it today.

I guess we were fortunate then, eh?  


... A Life?  Where can I download THAT from?!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Firefly
|Sub:  execute her ?
|Date: 24 Jan 97  18:22:58
EID:1406 223892c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32e94452
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Firefly said to Karen Davis about execute her ?:

>G>Point:  The so-called child ain't one yet.
>KW>   Point: Life begins at conception.
> Point: whatever it is, it's inside of someone else
> and thus not entitled to rights.
Fi> Just a couple of quick questions to whomever may care to
Fi> respond..I'm in agreement that Life begins at conception.

Then you'd be wrong.  Since both parts are alive before
conception, life begins before conception.

Fi> Question one...If it is not a child what exactly would you
Fi> call it??

Which part?  The sperm, or the ovum?

Fi> Question two...Just because "it" (for lack of better term) 
Fi> resides inside the  woman for development how does that 
Fi> entitle "it to NO RIGHTS???

Rights are dependent in this country on personhood.  The
zygote is not a person yet, ergo, it has no rights.  Nature
is severe.


... Creationists (aka Cretinists) put the `Duh?' in Fun-duh-mentalism.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Martin Goldberg
|Sub:  Pussy little satanist
|Date: 25 Jan 97  09:59:00
EID:4cf8 22394f60
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32ea1fb4
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Martin Goldberg said to Stutters the Clown about Pussy little satanist:

nr> Obviously you and Richard have about the same childish deduction
nr> in believing that any message from "Sherwood Forest" MUST be
nr> mine, let me tell you, this BBS has over 600 users and I am not
nr> the only one who is capable of posting in here, so pipe it!
MG> Check the times of posting, Junior.  The post inquestion
MG> lines up perfectly with the others you made that day.  I
MG> checked when I saw it, thinking it was a fake, but found
MG> that it wasn't.

Uh oh, Martin . . . refuting the stupid shit with facts
again!  

MG> So you're a faggot.  Who cares?

About what?


... It wasn't my God.  It was the God I worship.  -- Ken `Bipolar' Wiens
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Stutters The Clown
|Sub:  Pussy little satanist
|Date: 25 Jan 97  10:06:02
EID:1a67 223950c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32ea215a
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Stutters the Clown said to Robert Curry about Pussy little satanist:

nr> Shelby, lets get one thing straight, I absolutely
nr> despise homosexuals.
SS> Why is this?  What have homosexuals ever done to you? 
RC> Turned down his advances?
StC> Like I said, I HATE FAGGOTS!! If one ever "advanced" on me
StC> he would be beaten into oblivion, mercilessly.

So you would bitch-slap him, you little swisher?  How
homophobic.  But you're just the type of person to engage in
gay bashing, aren't you?

Or are you talking about beating off . . . ?  He might like
that.  

StC> Maliethorn

Maalox Moment


... My current state of being is of noconsequence . . .  -- Nick Ravenwood
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Curtis Johnson
|Sub:  Re: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 25 Jan 97  13:22:04
EID:f450 22396ac0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32ea4f4c
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Wiens said to Curtis Johnson about Re: My Summer Weekend:

KW>Biola became a University while I was attending
KW>the seminary (between 1980-85). I never attended
KW>the college. My wife graduated from the college
KW>in 1972 (before I met her).

I just noticed this when cleaning up some old mail packets,
and am wondering if I was missing something.  Isn't a
college and a university just about the same thing?  What is
the difference?  It looks here to me that Ken is saying that
Biola as a college came into existence as a college in
1980-85, though his wife graduated from there in 1972.  Huh?



... Our universe can't exist with a Higher Intelligence creating it.KWiens
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Ken Whines
|Sub:  Staal Won'T Drink It
|Date: 25 Jan 97  15:38:06
EID:e8b4 22397cc0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32ea6f2e
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Whines said to Shelby Sherman about Staal Won'T Drink It:

kw> Correct. The "Maker of all things." Sin is not a thing.

Then it can't be inherited or applied to anything, thereby
refuting the Doctrine of Original Sin.


... It wasn't my God.  It was the God I worship.  -- Ken `Bipolar' Wiens
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Ken Whines
|Sub:  My Summer Weekend
|Date: 25 Jan 97  15:57:08
EID:c9cf 22397f20
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32ea73a4
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Whines said to Alan Hess about My Summer Weekend:

SS> Who created sin, Jim?
kw> Read the following and think about it:
kw> SIN
kw> Mankind was created without sin, morally upright and inclined to
kw> do good . But sin entered into human experience when
kw> Adam and Eve violated the direct command of God by eating the
kw> forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden . Because Adam
kw> was the head and representative of the whole human race, his sin
kw> affected all future generations
AH> You've just demonstrated that the Bible shows that God
AH> created sin.
kw> Wrong. i just demonstrated that the Bible shows sin was
kw> created when Adam and Eve violated the direct command
kw> of God.

So, let me see if I have this straight.  Your Deity created
EVERYTHING, but did not create Sin as Sin is not a thing and
cannot be created, though it (Sin) WAS created when Adam and
Eve disobeyed your Deity?

Is that correct?

Man, your head is TOTALLY fucked . . .


... Do the lives of little ones have value?-DW  I will not answer that.-KW
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Curtis Johnson
|Sub:  Re: Kill A Kid For Chris
|Date: 25 Jan 97  22:49:10
EID:2cee 2239b620
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32ead436
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Curtis Johnson said to Mike Smellia about RE: KILL A KID FOR CHRIST:

SS> Have you read and understood your Holy Book ?
mm> Obviously you haven't read or don't understand the Holy Book.

Which Holy Book would that be?

mm> If the examples given to us from God in the bible

Rape, murder, incest, betrayal, adultery, genocide, torture,
etc.

mm> are followed there would be no baby baptisms.

Nor babies to baptise . . . 

mm> Any examples given in the Bible of baptizm are of people
mm> who are able to understand and believe in Christ, after
mm> being saved they baptized, not before...

Not every example in the Babble fits this . . . Christ
certainly did not become saved to become baptized, did he?
And look what happened to HIM . . .

mm> (How can a baby fit these examples?  IT CAN"T)

Not even in a shoebox?

mm> so the question is to you Satans Bastard,

WHO?

mm> Have you read and understand the Holy Book?

WHICH Holy Book?

mm> How about you Dick Smith?  Dan Crapa?  CURTIS TIOLETSON?

Isn't it sad when fundies think they're being clever but
instead they're just droll?  I imagine Mike would have to
look up at least one of those words . . .

CJ> AAMOF, Mike Melanoma (see, I can play with names too!),
CJ> I've probably read more gospels than you have.

And yours haven't been The Golden Book edition, either, like
Mikey's looked at the pictures of . . .


... Does any of this prove devine authorship?  No  -- Mikey Melia
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Shelby Sherman
|Sub:  Pussy little satanist
|Date: 25 Jan 97  23:01:12
EID:6ab3 2239b820
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32ead708
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Shelby Sherman said to Stutters the Clown about Pussy little satanist:

StC> And you Dick, are clearly deluded.  Keep your fudge
StC> packing comments to yourself.  We don't wish to know
StC> what you do in your spare time.
SS> The only same sex love letters that I have seen 
SS> have been to/from you, suicide boy.

Yeah, but they are merely just his masturbatorial aids,
along with that magnifying glass and tweezers . . .


... My current state of being is of noconsequence . . .  -- Nick Ravenwood
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   Martin Goldberg
|Sub:  Scortched scotch.
|Date: 25 Jan 97  23:04:14
EID:5ece 2239b880
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32ead7be
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Martin Goldberg said to Marty Leipzig about Scortched scotch.:

MG> Bourbon:The drink of the Nouveau Riche,
ML> Yes?
MG> I said "riche".
MG> and Fundy sneak drinkers.
ML> Nahhhh...they don't even sup scotch. They're probably Miller
ML> Lite sneaks.
MG> I wonder how you get that much beer into a church picnic.

Inside a deacon . . . 


... 24 hours in a day/24 beers in a case: Coincidence???
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Richard Smith
|To:   All
|Sub:  Well, that's it.
|Date: 29 Jan 97  23:28:26
EID:0c52 223dbb80
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f0236a
Well, that was the mail packet.  Only about a hundred posts, as it turns
out.  Nowhere near a Schroeder in measurement.  

I have to go now.  The television needs to be shut off . . . they're playing
another one of those damn AmWay commercials.  Hope everyone has a Happy
New Year, etc.

--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Quentin Fai
|To:   Ed Mills
|Sub:  Re: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 28 Jan 97  15:54:06
EID:74c3 223c7ec0
PID: SX 4.4P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 410feaea
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 c203b252
TID: GE/32 1.2
EM> Bob Dobbs?
EM> I keep seeing that face popping up here & there.
EM> What is that all about?

He's the High Epopt of the Church of the Subgenius. If you have Internet
access, check out http://sunsite.unc.edu/subgenius .

... He shoots!  He scores!  He decapitates the linesman!
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin:  The TERMINAL BBS  (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
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|From: Quentin Fai
|To:   Jan Deboer
|Sub:  Re: Liars fer Jesus
|Date: 29 Jan 97  17:38:12
EID:6d27 223d8cc0
PID: SX 4.4P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 3e0467bc
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32eb0e28
TID: GE/32 1.2
LA>> So chemistry, as we know it does NOT cause life to arise
LA>> from  non-life, but just the opposite.

Jd> And how did "former President Harry Truman" arise from non-life
Jd> a decade after his death to stroll around Mt. St. Helens with you?

But, he's not dead!

He's hiding in Prewett's crawlspace with JFK, Elvis and Kissinger.

... Not now . . . I have to go mow the laundry.
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
* Origin:  The TERMINAL BBS  (403)327-9731 Lethbridge,AB,Canada (1:358/1)
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|From: Lee Woofenden
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  NOT why don't we see God.
|Date: 29 Jan 97  08:54:00
EID:e8a3 223d46c0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:101/525.0 32ef5b44
Here's what Marty Leipzig said to Lee Woofenden about NOT why don't we see
God.:

DR> Don't "usually?!" Since when has anyone seen gods,
DR> "non-usually" or otherwise?

LW> You reject all the eye-witness accounts, so there's not much point in
LW> discussing it.

ML> Quick. Without looking again, what is the topic of this message?

Quick, without thinking again, what was the point of your message?

--Lee

... After all is said and done, usually more is said than done.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: Synthesis: where people and ideas meet. 617-784-2773. (1:101/525)


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|From: Lee Woofenden
|To:   Jan Deboer
|Sub:  Why don't we see God[sic]
|Date: 29 Jan 97  09:12:00
EID:b9c2 223d4980
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:101/525.0 32ef5b46
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32e8b0f4
Here's what Jan Deboer said to Dan Ceppa about Why don't we see God[sic]:

LW> describing people's encounters with God. The question is not whether
LW> these eyewitness accounts exist; there are thousands of them--perhaps
LW> millions. The question is whether you or I accept these accounts as
LW> valid, or reject them as lies and hallucinations.

Jd> Don't you READ your bible?????

Jd> John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time.

DC> Little facts, like those in his bible, are meaningless to him,
DC> as they don't support his base statement.

JD> Yes, there's that 'no amount of facts and reason is gonna sway my
JD> beliefs!' mentality.

I see you've responded to everyone _else's_ response to your message. Are
you
going to respond to mine? Did you receive it?

--Lee

... A steal at only $5.95 + $19.00 S&H.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
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|From: Lee Woofenden
|To:   David Rice
|Sub:  Why don't we see God[sic]
|Date: 29 Jan 97  09:15:00
EID:1be8 223d49e0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:101/525.0 32ef68df
Here's what David Rice said to Lee Woofenden about Why don't we see God[sic]:

>>>DR> Don't "usually?!" Since when has anyone seen gods,
>>>DR> "non-usually" or otherwise?

>>LW> You reject all the eye-witness accounts,

>DR> One cannot "reject" what does not exist, nor "reject"
>DR> evidence that has never ever ever been presented. By
>DR> all means, do produce your "eye-witness" if you have
>DR> one.

LW> It would be absurd for you to claim that no one has
LW> ever given written or verbal accounts of having seen
LW> God[sic].

DR> It would be absurd for you to believe written or verbal
DR> accounts from people claiming to have seen gods.

Why?

Must all accounts of having seen God be rejected simply because they are
about
having seen God? Or is there some other reason that these accounts must
be
rejected? Be specific, please.

LW> They are in the sacred books of almost every culture.

DR> That's nice. Why are you evading the question? You falsly
DR> asserted that I was "rejecting" evidence for gods. Why
DR> don't you produce this evidence and THEN see if I "reject"
DR> it?

Here is a direct quote from you, demonstrating that you reject evidence
for
God:

DR> It would be absurd for you to believe written or verbal
DR> accounts from people claiming to have seen gods.

Repeated from above, you will notice.

Accounts of having seen various things _are_ evidence. However, you believe
these particular accounts are worthless evidence. Q.E.D.

LW> In the Bible alone there are perhaps a dozen detailed
LW> accounts of encounters with God[sic], and many more
LW> passing references.

DR> In The Weekly World News there are perhaps a dozen detailed
DR> accounts of encounters with Bat Boys, Space Aliens, and
DR> Gilled Women, and many more passing references.

Do you reject all those accounts? Yes? Q.E.D.

DR> You are again changing the subject and evading the question:
DR> Where is there evidence of these "gods" of yours?

LW> The question is not whether eye-witness accounts exist.

DR> They don't, as far as anyone can tell. By all means do
DR> produce these eyewitnesses if you have them. Thank you.

I reproduced for Robert Curry several such accounts from the Bible. Should
I
re-send the message to you so you can read it?

As I said, the question is not whether eyewitness accounts exist. The question
is whether you or I believe they are genuine. Or, if you want me to state
that
from a more skeptical viewpoint, the question is not whether accounts of
having
seen God exist; the question is whether the accounts are genuine. If you
have
problems with the use of the word "eyewitness" when you don't believe the
person actually saw that, fine. Just take the word out, and the basic argument
remains the same.

LW> The question is whether you or I believe that they are
LW> genuine or that they represent lies, hallucinations, or
LW> some other form of error.

DR> You are changing the subject. I asked you how it was
DR> possible for me to "reject" evidence of gods since there
DR> hasn't been any such evidence presented anywhere, ever, as
DR> far as I know. Instead you spew ad hoc claims and baseless
DR> assertions. Where is the =EVIDENCE= for these gods?

In a court of law, verbal accounts of a crime scene are accepted as evidence.
They are considered eyewitness accounts. The question in the courtroom is
not
whether the accounts exist. They _do_ exist, just as accounts of having
seen
God exist. As such, those accounts constitute evidence.

The court doesn't waste its time debating whether the people _gave an account_
of having seen various things at the crime scene. That would be ridiculous
because those present in the courtroom heard the person giving the account.

What the court _does_ do is evaluate whether the accounts represent the
truth
of what happened. _That_ is subject to debate. But it is not subject to
debate
whether there are accounts of having seen God, because there are hundreds
and
thousands of them in our world's literature. You may not consider it _good_
evidence--in fact, I am arguing that you reject this evidence. But it is
a
tough argument for you to make that it is not evidence at all. Judges will
accept just about any witness called by either the prosecution or the defense,
and it will be considered evidence--even if it turns out to be worthless
evidence.

DR> I know of no eyewitness accounts of people seeing gods:
DR> therefore it is impossible to "reject" this "evidence,"
DR> since it has never been presented.

If your definition of eyewitness is that the person actually, in fact, saw
exactly what s/he described _and_ that is what actually, in fact, happened,
then why don't we get rid of the word "eyewitness" and continue the discussion.
Okay?

DR> If a eyewitness tells you that she had sex with Napoleon
DR> Bonaparte two days ago, would you call that "evidence"
DR> that Napoleon Bonaparte is still alive?

I would call it evidence; but I would consider it worthless evidence.

>DR> If my translation is wrong, you need only produce
>DR> some evidence for those gods you assert exist. I
>DR> will happily retract my skepticism in that arena.

LW> When did I "assert" that "gods" exist?

DR> see above.

Please quote the words. David. All I get from you fundy atheists is vague
assertions that _somewhere_ I made various assertions. Rarely do I get any
evidence from you to back up your claims. Only more evasions.

Quote the words. Produce the evidence or stop making the claim.

--Lee

... Always use tasteful words. You may have to eat them.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: Synthesis: where people and ideas meet. 617-784-2773. (1:101/525)

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|From: Lee Woofenden
|To:   Jan Deboer
|Sub:  Xtians who do EVIL
|Date: 29 Jan 97  09:35:00
EID:856d 223d4c60
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:101/525.0 32ef68e0
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32e015f5
Here's what Jan Deboer said to Lee Woofenden about Xtians who do EVIL:

LW> Many churches recognize the sins of their past and are actively
LW> working to improve themselves--as well as to make amends for past
LW> wrongs that are still affecting people. I recall reading that at
LW> one time the mainline churches in Canada issued a public apology
LW> for the way they had treated the native peoples of Canada in the
LW> past, and made a commitment to work toward respecting them and
LW> their ways.

JD> I give the churches involved absolutely NO credit for that whatsoever!
JD> First of all, much more than a mere _apology_ was overdue, and
JD> secondly, I rather doubt the sincerity of that apology, since it did
JD> not come spontaneously, but only as a result of government pressure
on
JD> the churches.

But it's better than not making an apology at all. The churches _could_
have
said, "We don't apologize. In fact, what we did was right and in the same
situation, we would do it again."

Perhaps the apology wasn't as genuine as it could have been. But it at least
puts the church on record as having admitted to making a mistake. That is
something that can be built on.

Would you prefer that the churches _not_ apologize?

JD> In one case - the Anglicans, I believe - there was dissent among the
JD> church leaders, with some insisting there was nothing to apologize
JD> for!

Dissent is a normal part of human society. The point is that despite internal
dissent, the church _did_ officially apologize. That means the preponderance
of
opinion in the church was that it should admit to making a mistake.

JD> The Anglicans were particularly involved in the cultural genocide and
JD> child abuse of the 'boarding school' conspiracy, where speaking your
JD> own language was crime!
JD> From the lips of these vermin we should BELIEVE an uttered apology??
JD> Would an -"Ooops - Sorry!" from Hitler be good enough?

I would look to see whether the actions matched the words. If Hitler apologized
and continued to believe and do the same things he did before, the apology
would be worthless hypocrisy. But if Hitler apologized and devoted the rest
of
his life to caring for those he had ravaged and speaking out against what
he
had done, trying to convince people not to follow in his former footsteps,
then
however inadequate his redress was to the actual crimes committed, I would
consider the possibility that his apology was genuine. Of course, if he
had
lived, he would have had to do his speaking out from prison. Personally,
I
doubt he would ever have changed his mind.

LW> I can tell you that this sort of soul searching happens in my own
LW> denomination--and yes, even from the pulpit of my church. Just
LW> this past Sunday the sermon included references to mistaken
LW> practices in the church's past.

JD> I don't see any 'soul searching' from the religious right. All I see
JD> is more deception and arrogance.

I'm not from the religious right, so I neither speak for them nor defend
them.
IMO, the religious right is badly mistaken in many ways.

LW> Even the Catholic church--one of the worst offenders
LW> historically--has "repented" of many of its past sins. Vatican II
LW> was a major break with past tradition.

JD> Has it really? Are they still hiding the Cardinal who perpetrated the
JD> "Vatican Bank" scandal from justice?
JD> The response to parents of children molested by priests hardly
JD> indicates repentance - accusing the PARENTS of 'negligence' for not
JD> detecting the molestations!!

I didn't say the Catholic Church had become sin-free. But I do believe it
has
taken some initial steps in the right direction. It's hard enough for an
_individual_ to bring about genuine personal change. For a huge institution
like the Catholic Church, it is going to be a long, slow process.

LW> Of course, there are still reactionaries in the church who do not
LW> want to look at past wrongs. But I think that if you talked to
LW> various denominational leaders, you would be surprised at how
LW> much awareness there is that the church has erred badly at
LW> various times in its history.

JD> When those who claim to following the infallible, and acting as
JD> moral role models start having to apologize for their crimes and
JD> misdeeds, they lose ALL credibility. That includes their apologies.

JD> When the man who loudly proclaims himself the most truthful and honest
JD> man in town, gets caught lying and stealing, are you going to continue
JD> believing him?

Of course I'm not going to continue to believe him. But we are talking about
the opposite process. When someone who has formerly been caught lying and
stealing resolves to live differently--and actually _does_ live differently--is
there any point at which you would be willing to forgive that person for
past
crimes?

A blanket rejection of all apologies and efforts at redress from the church
is
not a very useful stance. It is a reactionary approach that tends to harden
people and organizations in their old ways rather than bringing about change.

A more useful approach is to listen to the apologies, encourage the person
or
organization to live up to the apology, and then, over time, evaluate whether
any change in behavior has taken place.

Seldom are apologies from _anyone_ 100% sincere. We are all a mixture of
motives. When we say "I'm sorry," there are very few times when we aren't
doing
it at least partly to get off the hook for what we have done.

The same is true for the various Christian churches. They have mixed motives
for making apologies. But an apology is something to work with. It is a
foot in
the door. If you slam the door right back in a person's (or church's) face,
what good does that do? The door is still closed--and the person has a sore
foot and is going to be wary of you in the future. You would have squandered
any pull you might have had with that person or organization.

But if you use the little bit of openness demonstrated by the apology to
angle
for more, then you might accomplish something constructive.

--Lee

... AGAIN? I'm ALWAYS in trouble!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: Synthesis: where people and ideas meet. 617-784-2773. (1:101/525)

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|From: Glen Todd
|To:   Patriot
|Sub:  Idiot postings
|Date: 29 Jan 97  18:12:07
EID:7620 223d9180
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32ef9577
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32e41990
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Patriot!

While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Patriot
whisper furtively to Glen Todd something about Idiot postings:

P>> BTW, a fundy is not necessarily a Christian.  One of
P>> just about any faith
P>> could be a fundy.

GT>> True, but the ones in here almost all seem to be xtian.
GT>> (We have had a few fundy atheists show up recently,
GT>> but they're about as worthless as the xtian ones.)

P> Well, never said they weren't the most common of so called fundies. 
But
P> there could be a reason..  At least in America, which probably is where
P> most of the posters here come from, more people consider themselves
P> fandamentalist CHristians, than any other group.

I suspect that Catholics, Mormons, mainstream Protestants, and etc., not
to mention the census bureau, would disagree.   Even adding up the inflated
membership statistics of the various fundamentalist organizations and churches,
and discounting the fact that the same people are probably represented several
times, you don't come anywhere _near_ a majority of the population of the
US, to say nothing of the rest of the world.   Or are you saying that fundie
Christians are a majority of "Real True Christians", and in your opinion
nobody else counts?    In that case I would concede the point, as it is
utterly meaningless.

P> There are even Pagan fundies, which can be quite interesting indeed..

I've met a few, true, although not as many, even in percentages, as I have
Christian.

P> Now, on to "Xtian."  WHy use this?  ISn't this just trying to take
P> Christ out of Christianity?

Why not?   Saul started doing just that a dozen and a half centuries ago,
and Nicea pretty pretty well finished his job by the fifth century CE. Luther,
Wesley, and their successors buried what was left.

Ves thu heil,

Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia

KALI WANTS YOU!

... "Oh, joy.  Yet another round of dueling dictionaries"  Robert Curry
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Remember -- Rome was Christian when it fell. (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To:   Patriot
|Sub:  Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 29 Jan 97  18:23:19
EID:d31a 223d92e0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32ef95c7
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32e41da0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Patriot!

While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Patriot
whisper furtively to Glen Todd something about Oops, Caught Again:

JS>> Only in the eyes of Pagan scum.

GT>> I know lots of Pagans, but only a couple that would qualify as Pagan
GT>> scum.   I find that the percentages are a lot higher over on your
GT>> side.

P> WHy compare how much scum either group has in it?  We are all people,
after
P> all..

P> I always have respected all belief systems, even though I'd be strongly
P> against them, but I still would not get too close to those of alternative

Tell Jimbo, then.    It was his phrase.

Ves thu heil,

Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia

KALI WANTS YOU!

... If it screams, it's not food... yet!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Listen, warriors of the Old Gods (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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SEEN-BY: 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86
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|From: Glen Todd
|To:   Marilyn Burge
|Sub:  Exemplifying examples
|Date: 29 Jan 97  18:24:33
EID:144a 223d9300
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32ef9602
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 53c08c40
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Marilyn Burge!

While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Marilyn
Burge
whisper furtively to Dan Ceppa something about Exemplifying examples:

DC>> No, it's all based on the fact that Swaggart is a lying sack
DC>> of shit that uses his religion as an exuse to continue to be
DC>> a lying sack of shit.

DC>> What's your excuse?

MB> How ANYBODY can defend a man who has propositioned a prostitute
MB> for the services of her 9-year-old daughter is beyond my
MB> comprehension. Sick, sick puppies we get in here, I'd say.

MB> Who in the hell would even WANT to agree with slime like THAT?

"Good Christians".


Ves thu heil,

Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia

KALI WANTS YOU!

... To discover one knows nothing is the beginning of wisdom.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Avalon is rising, to fall no more (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To:   Rod Swift
|Sub:  Ask And Ye Shant Receive
|Date: 29 Jan 97  18:27:49
EID:d381 223d9360
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32ef9768
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32ded446
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Rod Swift!

Friday January 17 1997 09:22, Rod Swift wrote to David Rice:

DR>> I have never sinned. *POOF!* goes your sillyassed claim.

RS> I've never sinned either, David.  Sin only comes if you believe
RS> in the concept, which I'm sure you and I do not. :)

As I've pointed out to the thumpers in here on a number of occasions.  
"Sin" is an Abrahamic concept entirely; one who is not of an Abrahamic path
cannot sin.   A logical (and theological) impossibility.

Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd

From Angle-land to far Vinland the raven banners fly!

... AWESOME, COSMIC POWERS ... itty-bitty living space.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: One Book to bring them all and in the Darkness bind them (1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To:   Rod Swift
|Sub:  Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97  18:31:50
EID:1dfc 223d93e0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32ef97e1
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32dedd3e
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Rod Swift!

Friday January 17 1997 10:00, Rod Swift wrote to George Mooth:

GM>> FOR THE CHRISTIAN, THANKSGIVING IS NOT JUST A DAY
GM>> BUT A WAY OF LIFE.

RS> Yes, a way-of-life that is self-delusional.

'Thanksgiving' is observed in our household as a day of mourning.   I doubt
that Mr. Mouth would care to know why.

Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd

From Angle-land to far Vinland the raven banners fly!

... The Borg Are Back An' There's Gonna Be Trouble Hey Na Hey Na
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Faith is wishing not to know what is true. (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To:   Rod Swift
|Sub:  Houston Shit
|Date: 29 Jan 97  18:38:22
EID:138e 223d94c0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32ef9977
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32e1c472
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Rod Swift!

While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Rod Swift
whisper furtively to J.J. Hitt something about Houston Shit:

JH>> The one that used to be a "petting zoo" (lasted until the baby
JH>> elephant escaped onto the freeway), then was a water slide, then
JH>> a putt-putt golf kiddie park, then a Country Western open air
JH>> theatre?

JH>> It has had yet another incarnation....
JH>> It is now "Prayer Mountain".
JH>> (I've no idea just what they do there yet, or who runs it.)

RS> Woooo..  Now Houston is looking better as a Holy Smoke Convention
RS> City :)  Just imagine how much fun we could have there! :)

Pass the Darwin fish and the Necronomicons!

Ves thu heil,

Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia

KALI WANTS YOU!

... Ta-Sardar-Gor
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: One Book to bring them all and in the Darkness bind them (1:128/203)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Glen Todd
|To:   Patriot
|Sub:  Most Read Book
|Date: 29 Jan 97  19:18:03
EID:a201 223d9a40
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32efa3b7
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32e53794
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Patriot!

While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Patriot
whisper furtively to Marilyn Burge something about Most Read Book:

P> SOME were deists, most were not.  From Washington to Adams, America's
P> history is full of great Christian leaders.

MB>> Some of them were blatant unbelievers, and MOST of them were opposed
MB>> to organized churches.

P> Nope..  Against governmental control of the church, sure..  But not against
P> the church itself..

AND against control of the government by the church -- ANY CHURCH!   THAT
is the issue -- not what religios path, if any, any of them personally followed,
but the fact that they had the intelligence and the wisdom to realize that
NO church may safely be allowed to enforce it's theology on others by secular
law, and thus that no church may be allowed to control the government. Furthermore,
having realized that, they had the honour and the ethical courage to say
so, and to write the same into our nation's Constitition.


Ves thu heil,

Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia

KALI WANTS YOU!

... A moderator for the ANARCHY Echo?  But -- why?
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: The call of the Horn is ringing from the hill (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To:   Patriot
|Sub:  reading incomprehensi
|Date: 29 Jan 97  19:23:58
EID:5abe 223d9ae0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32efa4a8
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32e541b2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Patriot!

Tuesday January 21 1997 17:22, Patriot wrote to Gwenny the Pooh:

GtP>> Yes.  That is why I loathe Christianity.   And everything it
GtP>> stands for. I loathe that woman are property, the children belong
to
GtP>> parents, that the church authority considers it has the right to
GtP>> control other's live and then charge them (tithe) for it, and that
GtP>> some god thinks he has any right to judge me. But you don't see me
GtP>> blowing up churches or shooting ministers.

P> EVERYTHING it stands for?  To me, CHristanity stands for love, peace,
P> justice, and freedom..  Not exactly horrible concepts..

Yet you sanction and support the above behaviours, which are completely
contrary to what you _allege_ that the church stands for.

P> Christianity does not teach women are to be property..  One could,

Listened to any PKs lately?   Or Focus on the Wallet?

P> On the church authority, I will agree with you partially.  The manmade
P> church itself has no right to control others, but if that church is going
P> according to God's wishes, then they are doing nothing wrong.

And since they are the sole interpreter of their god's wishes, then what
they are doing is _always_ correct -- according to them.

P> If CHristians are right about God, then doesn't it make sense that the
P> creator should have every right in the world to judge who He created?

But there is no evidence that they _are_ right.

Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd

From Angle-land to far Vinland the raven banners fly!

... If life were a fruitcake, fundies would be the nuts.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: Viking raiders on the cyber sea. (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Sister Syph
|Date: 29 Jan 97  19:28:09
EID:c0fc 223d9b80
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32efa4f3
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32e54038
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Dan Ceppa!

Tuesday January 21 1997 22:16, Dan Ceppa wrote to Marilyn Burge:

MB>> There's a little book about her called _The Missionary Position._
MB>> It tears her to shreds.

DC> Is there a nude picture in or at least one in a bikini?

DC> Also, is the title a pun or just relating to her views?

It means that she's been screwing people for Jaysus, probably.

Ves thu heil,
Glen Todd

From Angle-land to far Vinland the raven banners fly!

... (A)bort, (R)etry, (S)mack the @#$%* thing!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: A horn we raise in welcome to the God of ecstasy (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Glen Todd
|To:   Patriot
|Sub:  Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 29 Jan 97  19:29:52
EID:2119 223d9ba0
MSGID: 1:128/203@fidonet.org 32efa56b
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32e5ba8a
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8271
Heilsa, Patriot!

While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Patriot
whisper furtively to David Worrell something about Cracker Barrel boycott:

P> Well, I must say, you must have a pretty good imagination to come up
with
P> an analogy like that..  There is a bit of a difference between Christians
P> and Nazis, as well as between gays and Jews.

I'll grant you the latter, but for the former example, the second group
is a proper subset of the first.

Ves thu heil,

Glen Todd
American Thuggee Militia

KALI WANTS YOU!

... I not dyslexic am.      Confused just.
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
* Origin: American Thuggee Militia -- Knot a Problem (FidoNet 1:128/203)
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|From: Sam Ferguson
|To:   David Ragland
|Sub:  Christianity and Scie
|Date: 29 Jan 97  09:37:00
EID:8bf2 223d4ca0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32ef6e9c
I think you misunderstand the conflict between science & theism. Science
is not anti-religion, rather anti-theism. Your example of the
astronomers actually demonstrated the origin of the myths from which
evolved the various "bibles."

I am of the opinion that scientific discoveries prove our religious
connections with God, while destroying the historical dogma of the
fundamentalist. Actually politics is the enemy of both.

___
X SLMR 2.1a X A coward is a hero with a wife, kids and a mortgage.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Sam Ferguson
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  library book
|Date: 29 Jan 97  09:42:02
EID:768a 223d4d40
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32ef6fca
Al I am returning the "Warfare of Science with Theology" today at the
main library. I suggest you call so they will continue to hold, if you
still want it. The epilogue by Bruce Mazlich is also very interesting.

___
X SLMR 2.1a X A good pun is its own reword.

--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Skeeter Haven  "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To:   Marty Leipzig
|Sub:  Sex at Dragon festival (d
|Date: 29 Jan 97  15:17:00
EID:8c1d 223d7a20
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 384b663f
ML> DW>On several occasions she has done the "fawn eyes" bit to guys that
ML>interest DW>her while we are out together. She doesn't understand when
I tell
ML>her that KW> any DW>guy she gets while in the company of another male
is very
ML>likely to be a DW>complete shithead. I try to get her to go out alone,
and she
ML>says, "But then DW>all the guys will be hitting on me!" By this point
in this
ML>recurrent DW>conversation, I start looking for a brick wall to bash my
head
ML>against. 
ML> DW>Women are fucking *odd*.

ML> KW> Safety in numbers, David.  She doesn't want to be staked out like
a
ML> KW> goat in a tiger trap.

ML>     Or in (shades of Michael Crichton) the Tyrannosaur Paddock.

Ah, yes, the Airport Inn bar during a baptist convention...
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * ... Fundy Logic: Lie 1 + Lie 2 + Lie 3 = "God's Truth"

--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 * 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To:   Styx Allum
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 29 Jan 97  15:17:00
EID:0999 223d7a20
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 2535551c
JF> DC>> Let me state:  You are a fundy fool and revel in the shit you
JF> DC>> strew.

JF> JF>   By the way, you know how you said changing peoples' words can
get
JF> JF> you kicked out of this forum?  Well excessive (and very pointless)
JF> JF> profanity is another.

JF> DW> The fuck it is.

JF> DW> The moderator's name is Styx Allum. I'm sure he'll give 
JF> DW> you a copy of the echo rules if you ask nicely.

JF>  By the way, if you asked him the way you do, you'd get kicked out.
He might
JF>tolerate profanity, but he won't tolerate a pain in the butt.

Gee, Styx, I didn't know that you had hired a social arbiter to help
you co-moderate the echo. . .
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * ... Go grow some pubic hair.  Ryan Shaw


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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  Sex at Dragon festival (d
|Date: 29 Jan 97  15:17:00
EID:adeb 223d7a20
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 96787c55
DW>25 Jan 97 16:50, Katherine Wintersnight wrote to David Worrell:

DW> DW> KW>> Safety in numbers, David.  She doesn't want to be staked out
DW> DW> KW>> like a goat in a tiger trap.

DW> DW>> If it looks like a goat, and acts like a goat... :)

DW> KW> See yourself as a tiger, do you?

DW>Who, me? Nah, I'm just a li'l mouse. :)

Getting pushed around and having your buttons clicked. . .

---
* OLXWin 1.00a * ... If cats bought catfood it would wiggle.


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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To:   Marilyn Burge
|Sub:  . [3/3]
|Date: 29 Jan 97  15:17:00
EID:6605 223d7a20
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org d904ccdb
MB>On (25 Jan 97) Katherine Wintersnight babbled to Chris Green...

MB> KW> I think you have a pretty good idea just what it is that you
MB> KW> can do with that mealy mouthed british superiority and that
MB> KW> whip.

MB>As the "brits" would say, SPOT ON!!!

MB>(You forgot to mention how gaw-gaw we were all supposed to be
MB>about his IQ score.)

Oh, were we supposed to be gaw-gaw over his IQ score?  I'm afraid that
he's as under whelming in the gaw-gaw arena as he is in the pity point
parade.  I'll save both the gaw-gaw and the pity points for people I
actually respect.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * ... Pro-life? Then GET ONE and STAY THE FUCK OUT OF MINE.


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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  THE ALIGNMENT LIST
|Date: 29 Jan 97  15:17:00
EID:0e62 223d7a20
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org c6280d6d
DC>-> On 25 Jan 97  11:50:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Becke Boyer

DC> BB>Are the harpies trying to monopolize the chocolate now? ;)

DC> KW> If we can! 

DC>Rememer, I live where the One True Frango comes from!  

And you think that will keep you safe?
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * ... Support Pro-Life or I'll kill you!

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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To:   Judith Bandsma
|Sub:  Spam me big boy!
|Date: 29 Jan 97  15:17:00
EID:ecc4 223d7a20
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org a60de15f
JB>-=> Katherine Wintersnight spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-

JB> KW> I've seen the new page, and that bear ain't bald.  Well, mostly
not
JB> KW> bald.

JB>It's head is bald and that's all that counts.  (For fitting with the
JB>verse, at any rate.)

Ah, so now we have False and True Bald Bear Scum ?    All it
takes is showing a little skin. . .
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * ...A cat is, above all things, a dramatist.


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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To:   Denyse Heard
|Sub:  Re: MILLENNIUM LUNACY
|Date: 29 Jan 97  22:58:00
EID:85d4 223db740
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 1b87d835
DH>--- Telegard v3.02/mL
DH> * Origin: the other side / 915-590-3817 / break on through (1:381/95)
DH>SEEN-BY: 353/250 381/95 123 396/1 3615/50 51

I just noticed this.   Welcome to Holysmoke, Denyse.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * ...A Pagan family is a loving family.



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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To:   Sue Alexander
|Sub:  One of yours?
|Date: 29 Jan 97  22:58:00
EID:17b6 223db740
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 24770020
SA> KW> I want to know why no one's informed "A Current Affair" or such
SA> KW> about the orgy going on in her front yard.  I would think that
SA> KW> such footage would be worth a good bit.

SA>     Hey, I am sure even the Globe or the Weekly World News would gladly
SA>fake...errrr take pictures for headline coverage of such a momentous
SA>sight.  The story would probably would sell a few papers too, especially
SA>if the orgy is pretty graphic.

They just must not have noticed all the 'fun' going on in this lady's
grass.  I guess the neighbors must be having too much fun watching to
want to share.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * ...An elegant weapon, from a more civilized age.--OWK


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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  might
|Date: 29 Jan 97  22:58:00
EID:2cf3 223db740
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 8e321728
LB>ROBERT and Al were killing time yakking about "might":

LB> AS> Do let me know what the REAL Robert Curry thinks...if there
LB> AS> is one.

LB> RC> He thinks you're an idiot. And he's not alone in that assessment.

LB> AS> Tsk, tsk. And yet Lynda castigates me for citing others who agree
LB> AS> with me. Will she do so for you?


LB>Whattaya think? 5 points?

Now, give him at least 7--that whine was piercing.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * ...And God smote Egypt with a plague of zucchini.


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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  Apostasy
|Date: 29 Jan 97  22:58:00
EID:f3ad 223db740
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 29423378
LB> AS> In the words of distinguished theologian Karl Barth...
LB> AS> (page 1) Jesus
LB> AS> (page 2) loves
LB> AS> (page 3) me
LB> AS> (page 4) this
LB> AS> (page 5) I
LB> AS> (page 6) know,
LB> AS> (page 7) because
LB> AS> (page 8) The Bible
LB> AS> (page 9) tells
LB> AS> (page 10) me so.
LB> AS> Communication; the Bible; think about it.

LB> LB> Jaw dropping....

LB> AS> I know, you were expecting a ten page sermon...

LB>Maybe. I sure wasn't expecting a kiddy song.

That's it!  Al is really Barney!
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * ...And the Dead shall rise up and quest for BRAINS!

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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To:   Marilyn Burge
|Sub:  Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 29 Jan 97  22:58:00
EID:5ea4 223db740
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 55b80984
MB>SA>     No fucking way.  ;)  Besides, I don't know if I could even get
to
MB> KW> SA>85lb if I starved to death...

MB> KW> You aren't the only one.    I think the last time I weighed that
MB> KW> little I was fourteen.

MB>You'd have to go back a lot further than that for me.  When I was
MB>14, I was 5'10" tall.  I think I remember weighing about 150 then,
MB>and wearing a size 12 shoe.  

  At fourteen I was all of five feet tall (I don't quite reach five
four even today).

MB>Making rules of thumb regarding a "proper" weight for somebody
MB>you've never seen in person is the height of stupidity.

That can work both ways.  I don't look like I weigh as much as I do, in
part because I have rather dense bones, and in part because thanks to
being a gymnast when I hit puberty my hips never spread.  Most people
guess my weight at a good 30 lbs less than it really is. 
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * ...Christian: a throughly unhappy man who sees only evil


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|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  BABY IN CRITICAL COND
|Date: 01 Feb 97  18:48:10
EID:ad59 22419605
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1012bf43
PID: FM 2.02
AS> But since we know nothing of the afterlife except few hints, we
AS> don't know if there is any sort of preperation needed for the
AS> afterlife. We might mess up things by doing it too soon...

Once again you do the traditional death cultist evil by including your intellectual
and moral superiors in with _your_ delusions.

You, Al, and your death cult are utterly evil.  History proves it as do
you.

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890


|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Roger Hunter
|Sub:  BABY IN CRITICAL COND
|Date: 01 Feb 97  18:50:28
EID:4a8d 2241964e
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1012bf44
PID: FM 2.02
AS> And the ones we kill might have a purpose that God intended
as> them to complete, which we might foil by killing them...

rh> Giving you the power to thwart God? I doubt it.

It's one of the classic blasphemies of the Christanic death cult.  Their
first blasphemy was to give their "Satan" god control over the "good god's"
creation.  Then they give it to mere mortals to thwart the will of the gods.

If there were gods, they would probably be very angry with the Christanic
death cultists.

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890


|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Al Schroeder
|Sub:  BACTERIA AND EVOLUTIO
|Date: 01 Feb 97  18:57:59
EID:6b78 2241973d
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1012bf45
PID: FM 2.02
AS> If we say we are without sin we decieve ourselves, and the truth
AS> is not in us.

Another one of your death cult's greater evils.

Only believers in the fictional disease death cultists call "sin" are capable
of "sinning."  Your intellectual and moral superiors are in no way capable
of "sin."

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890


|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Roger Hunter
|Sub:  BACTERIA AND EVOLUTIO
|Date: 01 Feb 97  19:00:02
EID:8cac 22419801
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1012bf46
PID: FM 2.02
AS> If we say we are without sin we decieve ourselves, and the truth
AS> is not in us.

rh> Uh...Al, you just pointed out another biblical contradiction. 

Not to mention uttered the single mose deadly ideology the Christanic cult
uses as a weapon to use against the innocent.  Pretend 4 out of 5 people
on the Earth have this fictional "sin" while not "doing anything about it"
and it historically has been so very easy to inflict inhuman tyrannies upon
them.

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890


|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Roger Hunter
|Sub:  GOD: PSYCHOPATHIC LIAR
|Date: 01 Feb 97  19:02:19
EID:d333 22419849
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1012bf47
PID: FM 2.02
Jd> Youv'e created your god in your owm image, Al, someone who tries to
Jd> 'put one over' with every conceivable fallacy, false analogy and
??> verbal trickery.
AS> Then why does the idea of hell still bother me?

rh> Because you still have a shred of human decency left in you?
rh> Because religion has not -totally- rotted your brain yet?

I would tend to doubt both suggestions.  He fears the myth of "hell" because
of indoctrination by his cult masters.  While it's true he's managed to
tailor his pet gods according to his own pet wishes, he still suffers from
a great many abusive ideologies programmed into him by his masters.

I don't see this one ever overcoming his problems.

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890


|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Roger Hunter
|Sub:  NDE's and ignorant idiot Al's religious occultism
|Date: 01 Feb 97  19:13:11
EID:1c65 224199a5
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1012bf48
PID: FM 2.02
AS> enough of such instances, even in non-Christian cultures...that the
AS> accumulated evidence for an afterlife experience might be considered
AS> worth investigating.

MK> ROFL!  I guess you aren't aware that they
mk> can reproduce NDEs with a centrifuge, Al?

rh> Really? Reference, please. Seriously, I'm interested.

Look for anything written by Susan Blackmore concerning the dying brain.
Her and her colleagues perform experimentation as well as clinical studies
into the physiological attributes of the dying, awaking, and falling-asleep
brain.

She described the reasons behind the so-called "Old Hag Syndrome" -- a phenomena
a great many people experience upon waking from a sound sleep.  It accounts
for a great many of the alien abduction beliefs held by so many as well
as the Satanic ritual abuse beliefs held by still more.  (Called hypnopompic
and hypnagogic hallucinations, by the way.)

One of her books deals entirely with NDE phenomena and she covers the experimentation
as well as the physiological aspects of the brain.

Another work she and her colleagues compiled was, "Sex, brains and hands"
where left or right handedness is related to sections of the brain which
itself contains some differences between females and males.

A great many people think they get confirmation of an "after life" by experiencing
moments of the brain's shutting down or electrical noise existing within
the optic nerves or other brain pathways.  They brain seeks to create reason
out of the noise (which dying and sleep both create) and it always constructs
the preconcieved notions of the individual.  Thus believers in aliens-among-us
perceive alien abductions and believers in an "after life" perceive an "after
life."

It's very important to note that cultures which lack these two myths do
not experience them.  Believers will demand that NDE phenomena exists in
all cultures everywhere (thus they can pretend they have proof of both alien
abductions and "after lives") yet cultures which lack either experience
hallucinations in keeping with aspects of their cultures.

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Plastic Forks and Grapes shop (1:218/890)
SEEN-BY: 124/9005 218/890
PATH: 218/890


|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Roger Hunter
|Sub:  OMNI-SADISTIC
|Date: 01 Feb 97  19:17:59
EID:559a 22419a3d
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1012bf49
PID: FM 2.02
AS> Jesus specifically identifies Himself with the
AS> downtrodden, not the oppressor.

The Jesus mythos was created _specificaly_ to be a champion of the occupied,
not the occupational rule of Rome.  This Al lunatic would like to overlook
the fact that the Jesus myth is a political contrivance.

rh> But Al, you started it, by claiming God was experiencing the
rh> rape because of it. Are you retracting omnipresent then?

It seems fair.  His gods raped the Mary mythos, after all.

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|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Sue Armstrong
|Sub:  Tag that line!
|Date: 01 Feb 97  19:21:16
EID:0a88 22419aa8
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1012bf4a
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 32efd83d
PID: FM 2.02
FR> That's step #1.  Next comes getting in the FAQ.  _Then_ you need to
FR> get a curse laid upon you by a fundamentalist -- to "save" you, of
FR> course.  }:-}
FR> When you get all three tokens, you win an award.  }:-}

sa> You forgot about getting "Mistered" by Staal.

Stall dispenses his hatred without thought, though.  He doesn't reserve
his petty hates for the special among us.  No, every woman with the audacity
to think for herself gets on his list.

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|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Richard Smith
|Sub:  IIIIIIII'mmmmmmmmm bbbbaaaacccckkkk!!!
|Date: 01 Feb 97  19:21:55
EID:549e 22419abb
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1012bf4b
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 2f0094c0
PID: FM 2.02
rs> And just when you thought it was safe to post again.

It's like some kind of nightmare!   }:-}

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|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Ed Mills
|Sub:  Personal jabs
|Date: 01 Feb 97  19:22:54
EID:ed32 22419adb
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1012bf4c
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 2309e8da
PID: FM 2.02
ML> 8.73289174129: the cube root of the Beast
ML> 89.9139703657: the arctangent of the Beast
ML> 999...the Number of the Beast in Australia.

em> 666F: oven temperature for Roast Beast.
em> 25 or 666 to 4: Chicago tune of the Beast.
em> Phillips 666: gas station of the Beast.

I get my kicks on Route 666 -- the Road of the Beast

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|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Ed Mills
|Sub:  Personal jabs
|Date: 01 Feb 97  19:23:47
EID:ed32 22419af7
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1012bf4d
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 2309e8da
PID: FM 2.02
em>... Herbie the sperm turned & shouted, "Go back! It's just a blowjob!"

Sick!

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|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Ed Mills
|Sub:  MAYBE A Change In Plans
|Date: 01 Feb 97  19:25:14
EID:4acb 22419b27
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1012bf4e
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 1ac4a881
PID: FM 2.02
em> Since you are obviously doing this just to see how many shades
em> of green you can turn me, I suppose I should try to get a photo
em> scanned so I can file attach it and maybe you'll consider the job
em> finished and stop doing this to me. It freaks people out when I
em> show up at work the color of guacamole.   :)

Didn't you ever learn the redoubtable ZipLock Principle?

When it turns green, quit already!

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|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Ed Mills
|Sub:  Orion?
|Date: 01 Feb 97  19:27:01
EID:71f4 22419b60
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1012bf4f
REPLY: 1:105/24.12 d4ac7a66
PID: FM 2.02
em> from knocking things all over whenever he has one of his schizoid
em> spells and suddenly bolts for no fucking reason whatsoever, usually
em> from whatever place has the most knick-knacks.

Are you _sure_ there's no reason why your cat is crazy?  

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|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Ken Young
|Sub:  Most Read Book
|Date: 01 Feb 97  19:29:38
EID:05c8 22419bb3
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1012bf50
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32efce82
PID: FM 2.02
Pa> And if you do your homework, you will discover most of the foundign
Pa> father of the USA, were Christians..

ML> Fleeing from Christian tyranny.

ky> Nope, but nice try..  Rather, they were escaping from religious tyranny.

I would suggest you learn a little bit about the origins of the country,
Ken. Might I suggest some history books for you which might help you escape
that willful ignorance?

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|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Rod Swift
|Sub:  The Davidian Christians
|Date: 01 Feb 97  19:37:35
EID:e165 22419cb1
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1012bf51
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32e75034
PID: FM 2.02
RS> Bullshit.  Many ex-Davidians had reported the acts perpetrated
RS> inside the cult's ranks.  There'd even been quite indepth
RS> journalist reports into the cult's activities, the division and
RS> rift that formed that led Vernon Howell to the leadership of the
RS> cult and the ousting of previous cult leaders, etc, etc.

JS> But there was no proof.

But there was a great deal of evidence.

rs> You say that so boldly.  Wasn't there a congressional investigation?

Only of investigations into the slaughter of these Christians.  The cult
themselves had been investigated a number of times for child abuse and sexual
molestation by Child Protective Services and had been pronounced clean all
times.

The rift stemmed from the grave extraction of someone somewhat reciently
dead which the "rightful heir" to Mt. Carmel would bring back to life. 
While the cult leaders were being charged with grave robbing the other leader
got arrested and imprisoned on unrelated charges allowing Vernon total control.

Immediately after he gained control he announced that all of the females
from age 10 on up were his wives.  In the State of Texass this is permitted
so long as a parent grants concent for a minor (I don't know how he got
around the monagamy laws, if any.)

Come to think of it, the other leader was running a drug lab at Mt. Carmel
and Vernon turned him in.  The investigation after the slaughter turned
up many allegations yet no criminal actions could been proven.

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|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Rod Swift
|Sub:  Educational Experienc
|Date: 01 Feb 97  19:40:26
EID:6c20 22419d0d
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1012bf52
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32e7525a
PID: FM 2.02
> JS> JS> JS> JS> You were in Vietnam?
> JS> JS> JS> DC> If he was, it was _Viet Nam_, "English Major".
> JS> JS>  KS> JS>So what has that to do with speaking/spelling Gook, eh?
> JS> JS>  KS> You really are an asshole.
> JS> JS>  JS> You really get to be at a loss for words, don't you?
> JS> JS>  rs> he's right, you racist asshole.

> JS> JS> Racist? In what manner?
rs> In the fact it is perjorative.

Bathroom Staal is also Lon S. Mabon -- an alternate personality which posts
from time to time extreme anti Jewish hatred.

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|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Rod Swift
|Sub:  Promisefilth
|Date: 01 Feb 97  19:44:32
EID:1f3f 22419d90
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1012bf53
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32e75298
PID: FM 2.02
RS> I'm the mortal enemy of alt.org.promisekeepers.  The PromiseFilth
RS> in that newsgroup don't like dissenting opinion -- to the point
RS> of cancelling my posts...

JS> Poor baby. Maybe if your arguments dealt with fact instead of
js> some Fred Rice preconcieved bull shit, it might be different.

  And let's just forget everything the cult leaders have been
recorded saying and what the cult actually stands for.

rs> Oh, I'm in league with Fred Rice now?

Welcome to the club!  }:-}  Here's your acordian.

rs> For the record, I was posting such wonderful things as news
rs> reports about the Promisefilth, and their abusive and violent
rs> attendees :)

A great many people -- Christanics and normals alike -- understand fully
what the Promise Keeper cult is all about and most people don't like it.
The only reason why any woman would think the cult has virtue is because
she doesn't know what they're about or she's been beaten into submission
(often literally) and isn't allowed to form her own opinion of the cult.

rs> Rod "...*bwahahahah*  I take that as a compliment, by the way!" Swift
:)

It is.  }:-}

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|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  jesus needed...
|Date: 01 Feb 97  19:49:05
EID:ef6a 22419e22
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1012bf54
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32e9d474
PID: FM 2.02
CJ>  We've established that Jesus did not need a penis to piss.

JS>  What was He supposed to do? Spit out the urine?

Is that what your masters tell you women do, pig?

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|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Rod Swift
|Sub:  Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 01 Feb 97  20:23:03
EID:fa40 2241a2e1
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1012bf55
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32eb37d2
PID: FM 2.02
FR> One of the most disgusting things I do is buy pizza from Domino's
fr> Pizza House. They have a habbit of sending a percentage of their
FR> revenues to support domestic terrorist organizations like
FR> "Operation Rescue."

rs> Domino's is fundie-owned.

I know; that's why I dislike doing business with them.  The local Pizza
Hut will deliver yet I like to use checks so that I can easilly track where
my money goes.

rs> Have you seen who they give their annual "humanitarian" awards to?

Let me guess...  People like Randall Terry?

rs> They are filthy morons.  I'd rather eat at Pizza Hut or Cici's :)

I'm going to stop doing business with them.

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|From: Fredric Rice
|To:   Rod Swift
|Sub:  What are you claiming no
|Date: 01 Feb 97  20:24:31
EID:e0aa 2241a30f
MSGID: 1:218/890@FidoNet 1012bf56
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32eb384c
PID: FM 2.02
iJS> No, I wasn't aware that 'having sex with children, polygamy,
iJS> rape, and brainwashing are now considered "Not hurting
iJS> anyone".'

FR> Are you claiming that "David Koresh" was having sex with children?

rs> *boing*.  Please restate a single question :)
rs> There are documented reports of Vernon having his wicked way with
rs> teenagers, from memory.  I'll see what I can dig up from the
rs> archives around here.

Vernon was supposedly married to all the females ages 10 on up.

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Richard Smith
|Sub:  Free Will
|Date: 30 Jan 97  23:09:25
EID:bd13 223eb920
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7489cace
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 32e4cdf8
RS>  You mean you don't buy into this rationalization after the
RS>  fact in order to get certain conditions to fit reality?  

One of my professors who was a world famous rheumatologist had a philosophy
about science.  He said that if something was signifigant, it would jump
up and hit you in the face.  Rationalization is not needed.  Rationalization
is needed for those with no facts.

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Richard Smith
|Sub:  FUNDY SHUFFLE: Step 8
|Date: 30 Jan 97  23:11:14
EID:3dde 223eb960
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7489cdba
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 32e4d016
RS>  I think Ken needs Hooked on Phonics . . . anyone want to
RS>  chip in to get it for him and Staalin so that they can
RS>  get some remedial reading?

Well, Ken Wino hasn't shown his fundy ass in here for months.  I guess he
had to go to someother echo and tell them how he "kicked their asses in
Holysmoke".

The lad needs some self resepct, after all.

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Richard Smith
|Sub:  Sadism in the name of Go
|Date: 30 Jan 97  23:13:27
EID:ee0e 223eb9a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7489d250
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 32e4d7da
RS>  emulates Swaggart too much for that . . . and doesn't have a
RS>  job, so he can't afford a hooker.

Hookers will do anything for money, but let Bro Jimmy sing to them and you're
likely to have one recalcitrant whore.

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Richard Smith
|Sub:  Goodbye /3 (2)
|Date: 31 Jan 97  11:09:51
EID:f180 223f5920
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 749060e2
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 32e824b6
RS>  I have a friend that has it AND Adrenal Cancer.  He's about
RS>  thirty-five, and claims that he thinks he's got about ten
RS>  years or less left . . .

Is he certain it's lupus?  SLE is very rare in men.

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Another molesting xian
|Date: 31 Jan 97  20:18:32
EID:f774 223fa240
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7495676e
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32efd253
DC> However, it's rather telling that the plaintiff's attorneys 
DC> took on the second client in the matter.  If I read the report 
DC> accurately, it's on a pro bono basis.  Seems they think that 
DC> not only do they think they have a valid target but a good case.  

Well, there's definitly soemthing going on here.  I always said that there
was basically something wrong with someone that went out of his way to eat
tripe.

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Darrow Nonsense!
|Date: 31 Jan 97  20:21:04
EID:a7b6 223fa2a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 74956ff0
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32efe48c
DC> Besides, the thowing darts at him is like hitting the 
DC> side of the dart board and scoring a bull's-eye 
DC> every time!  

I don't mind discussing anything.  No one is really going to change their
stripes, no matter what Mike Hardy has said.

Appleton, like Hitler is a fruitcake and no amount of "preaching" will do
anything for him.

However, if you flush enough, like any good grogan he'll disappear.

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  Al knows what god experiences!
|Date: 31 Jan 97  20:30:32
EID:0c94 223fa3c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7495846f
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f11337
Jd> ROTFLMAO!!
Jd> So Al Schroeder KNOWS what god experiences! AND, Al Schroeder 
Jd> puts LIMITS on what god can do!!

I'm glad you've seen this.  I've been telling Al this for months.  The fact
that he limits his all powerful god with his own human weaknesses does not
provide him with brownie points.

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  Marygoround.
|Date: 31 Jan 97  20:32:34
EID:9b2e 223fa400
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 74958b09
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f1133a
PD>> That was
PD>> an event sure, but where did the event come from? Where is 
PD>> the cause of the Big Bang?
Jd> No one knows that yet...perhaps we may never know.

The eternal hope of the fundy is "god may be around the next corner".  It
makews no difference to them that we have successfully removed god from
almost every natural event that we know of.  Lightening, thunder, earthquakes
and all the rest are given siomple natural expalnations.  but these guys
still want to attribute it to a god.

Some people never learn.

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Don Martin
|Sub:  Personal jabs
|Date: 31 Jan 97  20:40:39
EID:feda 223fa500
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 74959c52
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 32efb753
DM> minutes from my house: lately, I prefer approaching foreign
DM> languages via the palate. A patissier is about to join the
DM> practice--watch this waistline for a growth spurt!

Good.  Hopefully they will open one of the Paris style horse butchers for
your introduction to the degustatory ways of the Franocphile.

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Jonathan Fingas
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 31 Jan 97  20:44:36
EID:eba5 223fa580
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7495a5ac
REPLY: 1:163/215.0 32f1536a
JF>   So what is a non-fundy supposed to do?  Say the Bible (or parts 
JF> of it) are a lie?  You have the most screwed up definition of 

Yes.  The story of the flood is so completely without any basis in fact
that it is a lie.  It is an allegorical story made up to prove a point.
Why not admit it?

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Jonathan Fingas
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 31 Jan 97  20:47:47
EID:eba5 223fa5e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7495acc8
REPLY: 1:163/215.0 32f15942
JF>   Whereas I have only wanted to scream at people like you, who 
JF> automatically brand people and jump into arguments for no other 
JF> reason than to work out their anger.

Just once, I'd like to see anyone that believes in a god of some sort to
provide evidence for that god.  I have been here for years and haven't seen
it done yet.

So where is your evidence?

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Jonathan Fingas
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 31 Jan 97  20:50:14
EID:eba5 223fa640
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7495b160
REPLY: 1:163/215.0 32f15d48
JF>   1/3rd - but that's a heckuva lot larger than the atheist 
JF> population.  Go get a Top 10 of Everything 1996 book and see for 
JF> yourself.

Pointless.  At one time, most of the people in the world believed the earth
to be flat.

Was it?

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Ken Young
|Sub:  Exemplifying examples
|Date: 31 Jan 97  20:56:43
EID:967d 223fa700
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7495c126
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f17672
KY> What does gender have to do with death?  I dare say, when I die 
KY> and am in Heaven, I will still be just as male as I am now.. 


There's a claim.  Got any evidence for it?

While you're at it, do you have any evidence for heaven.....or your god?

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Ken Young
|Sub:  READING INCOMPREHENSI                                    [1]
|Date: 31 Jan 97  20:57:38
EID:252e 223fa720
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7495c3c5
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f17818
KY> It might be..  Good thing we are living in the time of the grace 
KY> of Christ.

There's still people starving in Africa.  Tell yur precious jess to do something
about them.

"Grace of christ"?  Give me a fucking break here.

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   John Musselwhite
|Sub:  Cheese Whiz
|Date: 31 Jan 97  21:24:00
EID:95b3 223fab00
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7496001c
REPLY: 1:134/67.0 32f0cecb
JM>   My apologies, Marty... it must have been the cold. It was 40
JM>   below when I wrote that... aren't you glad you aren't here?

Not half as much as you're glad that he's not there.

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Satan
|Sub:  Our Daily Slave
|Date: 31 Jan 97  21:24:33
EID:2cd2 223fab00
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 7496059c
REPLY: 1:134/67.666 90f2daa5
MG>> Are you still gay or did you get help?
S> He is still a coward...
S> Likely he cannot find help for that.  His diabolical laughter 
S> sounds more like pitiful whining ;-)

Being gay is only a curse because he thinks it is.  His juvenile belief
in naked virgins held over alters eagerly giving him their maidenheads is
hwat got him in trouble here.

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Uri Tidhar
|Sub:  
|Date: 31 Jan 97  21:27:46
EID:273e 223fab60
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 749608e0
REPLY: 2:407/10 32efed39
UT> What is god's religion?


Dunno, but his favorite game is Hide and Seek.

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Darryl Gonzalez
|Sub:  Re: You forgot to answer this...
|Date: 31 Jan 97  21:28:57
EID:058f 223fab80
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 74960db1
REPLY: 1:383/6293 32E98F3E
DG> 1.  God created humanity, and desires to have fellowship with us 

Here is where you lose.  Right here on point one.

Problem is, you forgot to offer your evidence that god exists.  Do you have
any.  Even the smallest scrap of non biblical evidence would be appreciated.

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Pedophile Christian cooks / NAMBLA
|Date: 31 Jan 97  21:30:58
EID:6156 223fabc0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 74961069
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 d2c16aee
JS> (just to assist in getting your personal goat)

Is a personal goat anything like a personal savior?

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Jim Staal
|Sub:  Planned freewill
|Date: 31 Jan 97  21:32:16
EID:4b5e 223fac00
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 74961347
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 1f409f13
JS> 'walking Bible') but when I discovered him making his 
JS> 'astounding predictions' based on scripture taken out of 
JS> context, I dropped it.

Is he related to Appleton.

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  Another molesting xian
|Date: 31 Jan 97  21:35:58
EID:6afc 223fac60
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 74961dd2
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f15c28
Jd>  Whatta world - some people have to pay to get a blow job, and 


Kerist.  Can you tell me if ANYBODY ever gets a free blow job?

Goldberg's First Law is:

Nothing is free.

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Jan deBoer
|Sub:  Call Jim NOW!
|Date: 31 Jan 97  21:38:09
EID:5087 223facc0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 749623c0
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f15c32
Jd> from a TV antenna on a Simcoe street north building a couple 
Jd> of years ago. He reeked of consecrated grape juice, and 
Jd> identified himself as Jesus Christ. Never did hear what 
Jd> became of him, probably raptured out of the police car.

Would you believe it.  Jesus drove about 80 mph down a local street here
and took about about 6 cars.  Then he ran from the scene, screaming his
name to passers by and was run over at the next intersection.

He sure gets around, doesn't he?

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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To:   Judith Bandsma
|Sub:  books
|Date: 31 Jan 97  21:44:46
EID:7def 223fad80
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 749630d4
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A80F22D
JB> Our library has 3 copies. All in the downtown branch. All in 
JB> FRENCH. Tonight I start searching online.

Surely, they will get another one tomorrow.

--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Jonathan Fingas
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 31 Jan 97  16:05:00
EID:04c8 223f80a0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A833D54
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0703
-=> Jonathan Fingas spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-

JF> Bible (both Jewish and Christian) is wrong.  There aren't very many
JF> visions in the Bible, now are there?

About 5 per chapter of the OT. Ten or 12 for the NT. And just WHAT would
you call the entire book of Revelation?

Nope not a vision in sight. I would suggest maybe you have a reading
problem.


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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Jonathan Fingas
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 31 Jan 97  15:11:00
EID:04c8 223f7960
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A833D55
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0703
-=> Jonathan Fingas spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-

JF> And apparently, neither do you.  While I know now that profanity
JF> (however pointless) is accepted, an echo is for DEBATE, not one-sided
JF> speeches. 

You STILL don't understand that your definition is just that...yours.
Just because your sysop has this labeled as a 'debate' echo, doesn't make
it one. 

A lot of sysops have it labeled 'Religious Food Fight'. This is one area
where religions can be discussed in light of their inconsistencies, 
illogic, and just plain lies and not get thrown out.

It is an area where you only get the respect you earn...and expecting every
one else to respect you because you believe in imaginary beings is not going
to cut it.

Maybe it would be best if you just got it through your head that what YOU
want to see here isn't what you're gonna see. And we don't care how much
you stomp your feet and try to pretend that you can tell the rest of us
how to conduct ourselves.


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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Jan Deboer
|Sub:  Baby In Critical Conditi
|Date: 31 Jan 97  15:24:00
EID:99b6 223f7b00
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A833D56
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0703
-=> Jan Deboer spoke thusly to Al Schroeder <=-

JD> Which one...the 9 a.m. crucifiction, or the 12 noon crucifiction?

The one that goes from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning...you know,
the 3 day one.


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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   John Musselwhite
|Sub:  Cheese Whiz
|Date: 31 Jan 97  15:27:00
EID:645a 223f7b60
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A833D57
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0703
-=> John Musselwhite spoke thusly to Marty Leipzig <=-

JM> That reminds me of an interesting story out of New Brunswick a
JM> few weeks back. Apparently as a cost saving measure any road
JM> kill that was salvageable was dressed and "donated" to women's
JM> and homeless shelters. When this information was released,
JM> certain human rights organizations laid official complaints and
JM> the practice was withdrawn.

Probably got the idea from Pennslyvania. Only PA is serving roadkill in
the prisons and county jails.


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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 31 Jan 97  15:31:00
EID:257e 223f7be0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A833D58
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0703
-=> Jonathan Fingas spoke thusly to David Worrell <=-

DW> Who shall you call black next, Mr. Pot?

JF> Who the heck is Mr. Pot?  Do you mean marijuana?  That's the only
JF> Pot I know.

13 if he's a day. Shall we put aside all animosities for the time being
and collaborate? I'll send you a batch of the pie filling if you'll stuff
it in some Twinkies and send them along to Jonny boy.


... Beware! This is a dangerous product, manuals required.
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Jonathan Fingas
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 31 Jan 97  15:35:00
EID:04c8 223f7c60
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A833D59
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0703
-=> Jonathan Fingas spoke thusly to Dave Hamilton <=-

JF> yourself, by forgetting all the good things of Christianity's history

Name 1 good thing for every 100 atrocities. Go ahead and try. You can't
do
it.



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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  free will
|Date: 31 Jan 97  15:42:00
EID:2ff5 223f7d40
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A833D5A
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0703
-=> Lynda Bustilloz spoke thusly to Al Schroeder <=-

LB> Ah, pretty much like it was WITHOUT any word from god. Only difference
LB> being, if I'd been locked in an asylum, JOE COULDN'T GET TO ME ANYMORE.

But if he was anything like Jack, it made a good threat, didn't it? 
Especially since he could tell you that you weren't competent to commit
yourself and therefore he could order ECT or anything else for you. Including
straight jackets and solitary confinement. And nobody would ever, ever
believe another word you said because you were a fucking loon and he had
the papers to prove it.

The thought of being locked up in that way with no one to listen to me
at all almost did drive me nuts. For a while I hallucinated quite regularly,
long before I ever even heard of LSD.




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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  Becke, slave to satan
|Date: 31 Jan 97  15:50:00
EID:e856 223f7e40
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A833D5B
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0703
-=> Lynda Bustilloz spoke thusly to Nick Ravenwood <=-

LB> Oh, look. You're back. Done killing yourself?

Didn't someone last week ask if we had anyone posting after their death?
Ask and ye shall receive.


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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Martin Goldberg
|Sub:  Traditional Christian wea
|Date: 31 Jan 97  16:07:00
EID:71b9 223f80e0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A833D5C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0703
-=> Martin Goldberg spoke thusly to Ed Mills <=-

MG> Everyone knows that mabela is prune juice, frozen and carved in the

... Prune juice. A warrior's drink.    Worf
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub:  Bootstrapping up, up and
|Date: 31 Jan 97  18:57:00
EID:2e74 223f9720
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A833D5D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0703
-=> Lynda Bustilloz spoke thusly to Mimi Milstein <=-

MM> the avatar of an abacus. Not bad for an agnostic, and in
MM> such a short time.

LB> Don't take it hard, I'm sure your access provider FORCED you to do it.

That little rant from Mimi never made it to my BBS. Damn FIDO.

Too bad we aren't hosting personal pages at 3HarpiesLtd. I'd be willing
to make Mimi a special deal for space for HER web page.

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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Damien Wellman
|Sub:  native americans
|Date: 31 Jan 97  18:31:00
EID:a330 223f93e0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A84BB1F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0703
-=> Damien Wellman spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-

DW> True, but how many German Shepherds were available to the Amerinds?

Generic dogs are about the size of GSD's. One dog pulling 1800 lbs...
smaller dogs could still pull loads that would seem very outsized 
proportionally.


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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Mark Kimes
|Sub:  BACTERIA AND EVOLUTIO
|Date: 01 Feb 97  05:43:00
EID:9470 22412d60
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A84BB20
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0703
-=> Mark Kimes spoke thusly to Dan Ceppa <=-

MK> and "mass" more or less interchangeably, but not "size" and "mass?"

MK> Has he never noticed the rather obvious difference between feathers
and
MK> lead? ___

Is this where he falls back on the 'but everybody knows what I'm talking
about' justification?


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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Robert Curry
|Sub:  dropping of names
|Date: 01 Feb 97  05:47:00
EID:50e4 22412de0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A84BB21
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0703
-=> Robert Curry spoke thusly to Judith Bandsma <=-

JB> HEY, you left out Marilyn. And the 3 Harpies. And....

RC>  How shall I ever make up for the oversight?

Chocolate works. In this case, nothing less than Godiva. 


... >>> Why is it that the best taglines are just a little too lo
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Robert Curry
|Sub:  native americans
|Date: 01 Feb 97  05:55:00
EID:81b1 22412ee0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A84BB22
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0703
-=> Robert Curry spoke thusly to Dan Ceppa <=-

RC> Do you need to be able to harness fire in order to use a spear?

Maybe not. But a fire-hardened point to that spear is much more effective.


... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
* Origin: The Big Dog's BBS-Charleston, SC *803-769-6131*  (1:372/62.0)
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  God came to stay
|Date: 01 Feb 97  07:13:00
EID:aaf4 224139a0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A84BB23
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0703
-=> Dan Ceppa spoke thusly to Paul Davis <=-

DC> Care to buy a snapshot of invisible alien spacecraft?  
DC> There's only a few left.  

can you send me a scan of it? For the web page. 


... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Dan Ceppa
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 01 Feb 97  07:16:00
EID:9ee7 22413a00
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A84BB24
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0703
-=> Dan Ceppa spoke thusly to Don Martin <=-

DC> Thanks!  It didn't scan in my o/l or show up in the small 
DC> dictionary I have.  I think I'll have to invest in a OED.  

Another case for net access. 

http://www.onelook.com/index.html

DICTIONARY...actually dictionaries. Several of them.


... Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Dave Hamilton
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 01 Feb 97  08:07:00
EID:440f 224140e0
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A84BB25
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0703
-=> Dave Hamilton spoke thusly to Jonathan Fingas <=-

JF> that tells its children that black people are inferior - 

DH> Really. What league would that be, and what evidence do you
DH> have that would indicate that I am a member?

Don't I remember the bible being used to justify the above by Jonathon?

DH> I'll just bet you know better than I do how I should raise
DH> my children. I'll bet you even have a couple of changes in

Of course he does. Gets the instructions right from the bible. Keep 'em
quiet, beat them when they get out of line or have an original thought
and stone them to death if they question anything you have to say.

DH> And just what, in your opinion, have been the good things
DH> of Christianity?

Inquisition, Crusades, witch hunts, book burnings, people burnings,
criminalization of victimless actions. All that good stuff.


... I don't want him to turn the other cheek, it's just as ugly!
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Dave Hamilton
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 01 Feb 97  07:28:00
EID:440f 22413b80
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A84BB26
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0703
-=> Dave Hamilton spoke thusly to Jonathan Fingas <=-

JF> When was the last time?  Never.  Because non-religious people DON'T
JF> HAVE ethics or morals, and so could care less.

DH> Who told you that?

That's another one that missed my mailbox. I don't understand how he
can believe that shit. He obviously does, but I sure don't understand why.
Simple observation ought to be enough to show him how wrong he is.


... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   David Worrell
|Sub:  Bored
|Date: 01 Feb 97  07:32:00
EID:88b3 22413c00
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A84BB27
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0703
-=> David Worrell spoke thusly to Norman Solomon <=-

NS> Still Bored?

DW> Indeed.

Well, I've put up Quentin and Hector on the web page. I'd say those would
be good for at least a minute of non-boredom and 2 good giggles.


... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Jan Deboer
|Sub:  escape clauses
|Date: 01 Feb 97  07:35:00
EID:c11c 22413c60
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A84BB28
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0703
-=> Jan Deboer spoke thusly to Rod Swift <=-

JD> sinners, {through the miracle of 'original sin'} , the prayers can be
JD> legally ignored! [God has a good lawyer.]

Yeah, Robert Curry.


... If Satan ever loses his hair, there'll be hell toupee.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Jan Deboer
|Sub:  CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 01 Feb 97  07:49:00
EID:cc14 22413e20
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A84BB29
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0703
-=> Jan Deboer spoke thusly to Patriot <=-

P> Nope..  Maybe your ride has been bumpy, in which case I recommend
P> you change flights..  But mine as been smooth as silk.

JD> You must live at Lourdes and work-at-home!

Wait...isn't he that guy in the bubble? The one that can never leave a
germ free environment.

I never realized that also included the germ of an idea.


... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To:   Paul Boyer
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 01 Feb 97  08:01:00
EID:d75b 22414020
MSGID: 1:372/62.0 8A84BB2A
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0703
-=> Paul Boyer spoke thusly to Jonathan Fingas <=-

PB> Note that this is taken directly from the Presbyterian Church of
PB> America's "Fundamentals of the Christian Faith" published in 1919. 
I'm

But, but, but...he's not Presbyterian. He's LUTHERAN and that's totally
different. 

JF> Also, events such as the Amityville Horror are a little TOO real to

PB> The Amityville Horror was FICTION.  Just like your Bible, god-boy.

Good grief. How much mail HAVE I missed? He sounds like my grandmother
with the National Enquirer..."if it wasn't true, they wouldn't be allowed
to print it".




... What do bunnies do at a Pagan Festival?  Take notes.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4W1b

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 
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|From: David W. Worrell
|To:   Marilyn Burge
|Sub:  For your rude behavior?
|Date: 01 Feb 97  16:01:00
EID:3a28 22418020
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32f3691e
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 ab7b9d7b
PID: GED3 2.5
30 Jan 97 17:56, Marilyn Burge wrote to Fredric Rice:

MB> I would never have posted them in a million years, were it not for
MB> the fact that he was using my silence as a opportunity to slander
MB> my good name and lie about me.

Which of the things I said were lies, Marilyn? Bear in mind that everyone
has now seen the entire exchange.

You are the one with only a passing acquantiance with the truth here.

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To:   Jonathan Fingas
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 01 Feb 97  16:02:54
EID:23c0 22418040
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32f36a47
REPLY: 1:163/215.0 32f14ea2
PID: GED3 2.5
30 Jan 97 20:45, Jonathan Fingas wrote to Don Martin:

DM>> When fundies encounter a piece of behavior that
DM>> resembles their own, they scream "IS NOT!" very loudly. They
DM>> are also deficient in reading skills: please note that above
DM>> I did not say you _were_ a fundy, but rather made a
DM>> generalized statement about typical fundy behavior. You are
DM>> the one who made the identification between the behavior and
DM>> yourself. If you do not wish to appear to be a fundy, stop
DM>> acting like one.

JF>   "Typical behaviour" is the same thing racists apply to minority
JF> groups of every kind.  While you're probably not a racist, they DO do
JF> the exact same thing, so please stop labeling people.

There is one important difference that you are overlooking. The minority
groups "labelled" by racists have no choice - they didn't choose to be born
black, hispanic, or whatever else.

You did choose to be Christian. No one forced you into it.
JF> and that's supposed to be what Mr. Evil does best. Also, events such
JF> as the Amityville Horror are a little TOO real



Are you *serious*? Can you not tell the difference between a movie and reality?

Are you really this stupid?

JF> If you recall, the family that was living there had to LEAVE because
JF> the house was quite literally going nuts.

I retract the above question - you are this stupid.

JF>   True, at least not direct evidence.  But those cults certainly don't
JF> hurt my case.

Those "cults", at least the type you're describing, only exist in your mind.

DM>> Hanging or Bowel Busting? Which for You?

JF>> He betrayed the Son of God - fairly easy to pick up on in the
JF>> Bible. I pick bowel busting.  :-)  That's the death of Judas I
JF>> remember.

DM>> You need to develop those reading skills. He also died
DM>> by hanging, if the word of God is anything to go by.

JF>   Well, one of them is true, I know that.

Which one? The Bible gives two different endings to the Judas story. Which
one is the true ending?

DW>> The burden of proof lies upon the maker of the positive claim,
DW>> moron.

JF>> Yes, but can you prove that you do have an IOU? Guess
JF>> not, hmm.

DM>> That is precisely the point: your first statement above
DM>> ("You certainly don't have any proof that Jesus", etc.) is
DM>> exactly parallel to Worrell's "You don't have any proof that
DM>> I do not have an IOU". If we let your demand to "prove a
DM>> negative" pass, you must similarly allow Worrell's and pay
DM>> him his money.

JF>   Then if you reject my ideas, I should reject yours.

You still don't understand, do you?

Were you homeschooled?

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To:   Dave Hamilton
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 01 Feb 97  16:15:23
EID:b011 224181e0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32f36c44
REPLY: 1:229/622 32f0f1c9
PID: GED3 2.5
30 Jan 97 19:07, Dave Hamilton wrote to Ken Young:

KY>> I know most would disagree, but I do not believe there is any
KY>> population problem at all.. More like a distribution problem,
KY>> than one having to do with over population.

DH> You appear to be proud of your utter lack of education.

I note that Mr. Young failed to invite all the Indians and Chinese over
to use some of this space that we have.

---
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|From: David Worrell
|To:   Ken Young
|Sub:  Exemplifying examples
|Date: 01 Feb 97  16:16:51
EID:bd3d 22418200
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32f36c9f
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f17672
PID: GED3 2.5
30 Jan 97 23:34, Ken Young wrote to Ed Mills:

KY> We were made in God's image..  Man came before woman..  Does not take
KY> too much too figure out the rest.

Really? Does God have a navel? Does he have a penis? If he does, what does
he use it for?

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To:   Jonathan Fingas
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 01 Feb 97  16:18:32
EID:23c0 22418240
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32f36d1d
REPLY: 1:163/215.0 32f15214
PID: GED3 2.5
30 Jan 97 20:59, Jonathan Fingas wrote to Dan Ceppa:

JF>   You're labeling me with a stereotype,

And then you do your best to live up to that stereotype. I guess it's too
bad you weren't stereotyped as intelligent when you first stumbled in here
- it might have done you some good.

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|From: David Worrell
|To:   Jonathan Fingas
|Sub:  hypocritical people
|Date: 01 Feb 97  16:19:45
EID:23c0 22418260
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32f36d9a
REPLY: 1:163/215.0 32f152ae
PID: GED3 2.5
30 Jan 97 21:02, Jonathan Fingas wrote to Dan Ceppa:

DC>> "Hey, guys.  There's 20 of us, with armor, swords and shields.
DC>> They got 2 rusty old swords and they are holding them by the
DC>> wrong end.  Let's not be hasty.  One of us could get a hangnail!"
DC>>

JF>   Now talk about hypocrisy!  You claim I make things up, but here you
JF> go saying that Jesus' disciples were incompetent and got bad
JF> equipment.  A sword is a sword is a sword, and besides, a rusty sword
JF> can still stab. Most people also have a somewhat higher instinct for
JF> self-preservation, too! I know I do.

On the one hand, you have a sword weilded by a fisherman.

On the other, you've got a sword weilded by a professional soldier.

Ignoring, for the moment, the fact that Jesus' followers would have been
seriously outnumbered, which of the abovementioned swords do you think would
do the most damage?

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|From: David Worrell
|To:   Jonathan Fingas
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 01 Feb 97  16:28:02
EID:23c0 22418380
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32f36f2f
REPLY: 1:163/215.0 32f15c2e
PID: GED3 2.5
30 Jan 97 21:42, Jonathan Fingas wrote to Judith Bandsma:

JF>   And apparently, neither do you.  While I know now that profanity
JF> (however pointless) is accepted, an echo is for DEBATE, not one-sided
JF> speeches.

Who the fuck died and made you moderator, boy?

---
* Origin: John Brawley's Quantum Bait Shop, No. 7 (1:123/67.7)
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|From: David Worrell
|To:   Jonathan Fingas
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 01 Feb 97  16:30:17
EID:23c0 224183c0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32f36fcf
REPLY: 1:163/215.0 32f15e4c
PID: GED3 2.5
30 Jan 97 21:51, Jonathan Fingas wrote to Dave Hamilton:

JF>> Oh?  If that was the case, then I wouldn't be doing things like
JF>> tolerating the woman's right to choose abortion!

DH>> Tolerating? And who are you to "tolerate" women's rights?

JF>   Who are you to brand me as ignorant?

He didn't. You brand yourself as ignorant with each post.

Now answer his question.

---
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|From: David Worrell
|To:   Jonathan Fingas
|Sub:  Hypocritical people
|Date: 01 Feb 97  16:31:02
EID:23c0 224183e0
MSGID: 1:123/67.7 32f3704f
REPLY: 1:163/215.0 32f15ec0
PID: GED3 2.5
30 Jan 97 21:53, Jonathan Fingas wrote to Dave Hamilton:

JF>   Therefore, you can't either prove, or disprove, my opinion.  So get
JF> on to some more productive debate.

I am going to use the smallest words possible - hopefully you will understand
it this time.

You are the one making the positive claim here. Thus, the burden of proof
lies squarely upon your shoulders. It is up to you to show that your claim
is true. It is not our responsibility to show that your claim is false -
as you are unable to show your claim to be true, it is automatically assumed
to be false.

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|From: Sue Alexander
|To:   Jonathan Fingas
|Sub:  No fairy tales
|Date: 01 Feb 97  18:51:10
EID:b8b9 22419660
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 32f4040e
-=> Quoting Jonathan Fingas to Robert Curry <=-

JF> It's called THE BIBLE.  You certainly don't have any proof
JF> that Jesus DIDN'T turn water into wine, feed 5000 with a lone
JF> basket of food, or walk on water.

RC> No "proof" required to doubt such obvious fairy tales.

RC> Have you any evidence that these things could have occurred?
RC> If so, kindly cough it up.

JF> Oh?  And can you prove it yourself?  Guess not, huh?  You don't
JF> have any basis for your claims, so I'd just step aside and let
JF> people with intelligence discuss things in this forum. What about

People with intelligence provide evidence for claims of unusual
happenings.  You claim that Jesus turned water into wine and fed 5000
people with a lone basket of food.  These are, as far as physical
evidence has shown, impossible claims.  If you wish us to take you
seriously as an intelligent conversationalist, you will provide evidence
that Jesus could have done these things even though they are physically
impossible.  Unfortunately, with all the discrepancies and translational
problems that have been documented with the bible, the bible is not an
accurate source of information.  Please document your claim with
alternative materials, and we may take you seriously.

JF> the shroud of Turin?  Scientists once thought it was a fake, but
JF> it turned out (guess what?) that they were wrong and they can't
JF> explain its origins. There have been reports in the news of
JF> paintings of Mary crying.  One recently in Toronto, in fact.

Oh really?  I haven't heard about these things.  Could you please
cite the research that you are basing these statements on?

JF> And you so selectively ignore "peace, good will toward men?"  And
JF> "for God so loved the WORLD that He gave His one and only Son?" Nice
JF> to find a hypocrite