God Damned Fundies!
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Most Read Book
|Date: 02 Feb 97 23:03:44
EID:bb7e 2242b860
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f3b464
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f563a0
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to Dan Ceppa about Most Read Book:
pa> And if you do your homework, you will discover most of
pa> the foundign father of the USA, were Christians..
ML> Fleeing from Christian tyranny.
ky> Nope, but nice try.. Rather, they were escaping from
ky> religious tyranny.
DC> And the perptrators of the religious tyranny where....
DC>
DC> Xians!
DC> How about that, Ken.
ky> Keep on trying.. Maybe you'll get it eventually..
ky> (Though, I kinda doubt it.)
You shouldn't . . . he got it right the first time, as did
Marty . . .
ky> They were religious,
. . . like Xtians . . .
ky> going by some Judeo Christian beliefs,
. . . like Xtians . . .
ky> but were not necessarily Christians.
LOL . . . just because you say so? Ergo, they WERE Xtians.
They may not have been GOOD Xtians, but they WERE Xtians.
ky> If it was to flee CHRISTIAN tyranny, then how come
ky> many of those fleeing were in fact, Christians?
Different sects.
... Deuteronomy 13:1-5: Kill those who speak of other religions.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 02 Feb 97 23:10:46
EID:a479 2242b940
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f3b520
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f56546
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to Martin Goldberg about Exemplifying examples:
MG> Perfect? Why does he starve people to death?
ky> I wasn't aware God did that.. People do that all on
ky> their own.
Those awful people, starving themselves to death and making
us worried, huh Ken?
What a stunning example of Xtian love you are.
Btw, WHICH God?
MG> Do they now? What is it that they do to make weather
MG> conditions so bad as to dry the land and prevent crops
MG> from growing?
ky> This is Holy Smoke, not the Conspiracy echo.. :)
That you have no real answer to Martin's question is duly
noted.
ky> But God still lets it happen.. Maybe if we came
ky> back to God, crops would do better..
But some of the people your Deity (who you still haven't
named, btw) is starving ARE Xtians! And in the Bible there
are several instances of famines, etc., either caused by or
augmented by YHVH. So why should anyone trust It now?
ky> I doubt very much if he is specifically keeping
ky> food from people..
MG> Sure sounds like he is to me.
ky> Nope..
Oh, but it does sound like that to Martin. Me too, as a
matter of fact.
ky> Except for maybe manna, I can't think of a use God has
ky> for food..
Which God? And if your Deity has no use for food, then why
doesn't It provide the food It doesn't need? Selfishness?
MG> Btw, don't you have a middle name? I'm too busy
MG> laughing at your initials to post too much to you.
ky> YEah, Charles.. But, what could you possibly be
ky> getting out of my initials?
Just that, aside from Butter-Flavored Crisco, you're the
lube of choice . . .
... So YHVH only gives food to Jews?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Mormonism IS Christianit
|Date: 02 Feb 97 23:33:48
EID:b615 2242bc20
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f3b906
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f56aac
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to Fredric Rice about Mormonism IS Christianity:
FR> And you're a willing part of the hate and bigotry that
FR> Christianity is. The KKK, Aryan Nations, Promise
FR> Keepers, the Sword and the Cross, and every lunatic
FR> self-professed "militia" in the United States are _all_
FR> Christian organizations, run and populated by Christians
FR> just like you.
ky> Gee, just when I figure you people can't be any more
ky> wrong, you go one better..
Well, you lead the way . . .
ky> First, militias are not for the Christians, alone. Many
ky> Jews, Pagans, Atheists, etc. are in militias. People from
ky> all walks of life are in them. Are there any militias run
ky> by CHristians, and more for them? SUre.. But there are
ky> those, for all, as well..
Really? Name three. And name your source for this info; is
it Militia Weekly or some other theme magazine? Or just
your imaginatiion?
ky> ANd how anyone can put the word hate and Promise Keepers
ky> in the same sentence, is beyond me..
It's remarkably easy, as it is with other Fundy Xtian
organizations. Consider:
"I want to be invisible. I do guerilla warfare. I
paint my face and travel at night. You don't know
it's over until you're in a body bag. You don't know
until election night." -- Ralph Reed, Xtian Coalition
ky> They go too far the other way, actually..
Oh yeah? Evidence?
ky> And seeing as the groups Hitler was in, were of the
ky> Occult, it sure looks like he probably was too..
What groups were those? And you're willing to give him
guilt of one kind by association only, yet ignore guilt of
his of another kind that is based on his own admissions?
Spin doctoring, I see.
ky> He worshipped Satan, not God.
Evidence of this? And which God? I have evidence of the
obverse:
"During World War II, while I was serving with the
Third Army in Germany, I removed a belt buckle from
the uniform of a dead German soldier. The lettering
on the buckle read: Gott Mit Uns (God Is With Us)."
-- Kurt Vonnegut
So, got anything in writing from Hitler or his soldiers that
he was worshipping Satan?
... Creative Bible use #4: Reformed Church (S. Africa) endorses Apartheid.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: ...
|Date: 02 Feb 97 23:36:50
EID:c6bd 2242bc80
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f3ebc8
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f56b62
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to Lynda Bustilloz about ...:
RH> No.
as> Whipping with a Roman scourge and being tortured on
as> the cross for hours isn't sacrifice?..
LB> No more of a sacrifice than the thieves on either side
LB> of him made. And less,
LB> since he only put up with death for three days.
ky> The main difference is that they were criminals..
ky> Christ wasn't guilty of anything..
Then why was he tried and sentenced? And, btw, if he HADN'T
been crucified, Xtianity wouldn't exist today would it? In
essence, you and every Xtian are dependent on the torture
and death of (by your own words) a blameless individual.
Real, true, Xtian love there . . .
... 1Samuel 15:3: Saul kills Amalekites, including women & suckling babes.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be sa
|Date: 02 Feb 97 23:43:52
EID:119a 2242bd60
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f41132
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f56d08
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to Martin Goldberg about Why do you NEED to be sav:
SS> Why does ANYONE need to be saved? Please be specific. I
SS> have yet to have a christian answer this simple question.
sh> Much the same answer as you would get to the question "Why
sh> does anyone need a liver?"
MG> Why do we need to be saved?
ky> Okay, you want to know why you need to be saved? Really, I
ky> think the answer is simple, but I will go on anyway..
So it should not be a problem for you to explain, eh?
ky> Simply put, you need
ky> to be saved so you will have everlasting life in Heaven.
Why would I want to go to Heaven? Why can't I have
everlasting life here? And how can I have life if I can
only get to Heaven by dying?
ky> To be saved is to be saved from your sins, which doom
ky> you to Hell.
Then I don't have to go. I don't have any sins. To have
sins, they would have to be real things, rather than
actions. And since we understand (from Jimson Staalin,
among others) that sin was not created by YHVH, (though
supposedly YHVH created all things) but were rather actions
by others, I'm free of this need. I have done no sins.
Looks like you're trying to create a need for a nonexistent
condition.
... The churches've spilled enough blood to float all the ships of Europe.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Naked Pagan Rituals
|Date: 02 Feb 97 23:47:54
EID:8bce 2242bde0
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f41852
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f56dfa
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ken Young said to Ronald Vass about Naked Pagan Rituals:
RV> * SLMR 2.1a * Dead Babies go to Hell. -- Psalms 58:3 --
ky> May be just a tagline, but I had to respond.. In my Bible
ky> it says: The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go
ky> astray as soon as they are born, speaking lies.
Then they're not guilty of sin while in the womb, and are
essentially sinless?
ky> Nowhere does it say babies will go to Hell.. Rather it is
ky> reemphasizing that we are born with a wicked nature.. But,
ky> babies do not go to Hell, simply because they are not at
ky> the age of accountability yet.
Great! Then abortion is a good idea for those babies! They
never sin, and they go to Heaven. What could be better for
them? Thanx for admitting this to us.
... Blessed shall he be that dasheth the little ones against rocks...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: unThinking not Al ?
|Date: 02 Feb 97 23:55:56
EID:11e4 2242bee0
REPLY: 1:221/1503 32F25585
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f56fdc
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ronald Vass said to Al Schroeder about unThinking not Al ?:
Jd> Duh. Your god gives man the power of reason and a
Jd> natural curiosity, and then forbids him to use it,
Jd> i.e. don't eat the fruit of the tree of
Jd> knowledge. Talk about crushing the human spirit!
as> "Be thou as wise as serpents and as gentle as doves..."
RV> It may help your cause if you did a bit of study on 'doves'.
RV> All that statement does, is show what you have been lead
RV> to believe or what you wish to believe.
RV> Seems to me Sue also showed you or someone,that doves are
RV> NOT NICE birds. Or are these Al S. doves from the Al S.
RV> 'sample space' ie: not of this reality ?????????????
Maybe those doves were geese in their former lives . . .
... AL ADDENDUM: `If you say so' to replace as of now.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: False analogy#4
|Date: 02 Feb 97 23:58:58
EID:bdab 2242bf40
REPLY: 1:221/1503 32F2558D
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f57092
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ronald Vass said to Al Schroeder about False analogy#4:
as> And when an atheist engages in hyperbole and
as> deceptive characterizations to refute any
as> analogies, that is...?
RV> Being Christian.
Aw, you've been peeking . . .
... Never turn down an opportunity to piss. -- General George Patton
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Boredom
|Date: 03 Feb 97 00:00:00
EID:5230 22430000
REPLY: 1:221/1503 32F25590
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f570d0
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Ronald Vass said to Jan Deboer about Boredom:
JD> On 27 Jan 97 19:00:30 Al Schroeder wrote to Jan deBoer...
AS> Jan, a believer in an afterlife thinks we all live eternally.
JD> So tell us, Al - what is the purpose of eternal life?
RV> So Al can bore his gods with spin doctoring of the Al's truth.
RV> ......talk about getting it in the ass or what......
LOL . . .
Maybe it's not really eternity . . . maybe it just SEEMS
like eternity . . .
... Yes, to some people, I AM patronizing. I have REASON to be.A.Schroeder
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 03 Feb 97 00:06:02
EID:a257 224300c0
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32f29d90
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 32f5723a
RIP Verna Mae Russell 1911-96
Dan Ceppa said to Ken Young about Exemplifying examples:
KY> We were made in God's image.. Man came before woman..
KY> Does not take too much too figure out the rest.
DC> Think quick: Which came first, the chicken or the egg?
Depends . . . who was on top?
DC> And, just what two gods screwed each other to make your god?
Uh, God Dan, I thought that Gods only screwed mankind, not
other Gods . . .
... 1Samuel 5:6-9: YHVH afflicts Philistines w/tumors in "secret parts".
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Richard Smith
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Shroud Crapola
|Date: 03 Feb 97 08:49:16
EID:7124 22434620
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 2f5eceb0
REPLY: 1:121/45.0 32f4040e
-=> Quoting Jonathan Fingas to Robert Curry <=-
JF> It's called THE BIBLE. You certainly don't have any proof
JF> that Jesus DIDN'T turn water into wine, feed 5000 with a lone
JF> basket of food, or walk on water.
RC> No "proof" required to doubt such obvious fairy tales.
RC> Have you any evidence that these things could have occurred?
RC> If so, kindly cough it up.
JF> Oh? And can you prove it yourself?
Small reading problem, Jon? Didn't you see Robert say that
there was no proof required to doubt such obvious fairy
tales?
JF> Guess not, huh? You don't
JF> have any basis for your claims, so I'd just step aside and let
JF> people with intelligence discuss things in this forum.
Who died and made you king, you grotesque pile of shit? If
you can't back up your claims, just say so . . .
jf> What about
JF> the shroud of Turin? Scientists once thought it was a fake, but
JF> it turned out (guess what?) that they were wrong and they can't
JF> explain its origins.
Guess what? It IS a fake. Not ONLY has it been radiocarbon
dated to about the 14th century or later, but we have
reports of the person who faked it! The following was first
posted here by Don Martin this past July . . .
... By 1357 the Lirey cloth, proclaimed to be Christ's
... burial shroud, was being exhibited frequently for fees
... to large crowds of pilgrims from all over, when a
... skeptical French bishop named Henri de Poitiers
... launched an investigation into its provenance. As
... reported by Henri's successor, Bishop Pierre d'Arcis,
... the result was that the exhibitions were stopped. But
... three decades later they started again, prompting
... Pierre to write a lengthy letter to Clement VII, the
... Avignon Pope, to counter "the contempt brought upon the
... Church" and "the danger to souls." The famous
... letter--the earliest known reference to the
... shroud--begins (in translation):
...
... The case, Holy Father, stands thus. Some time since
... in this diocese of Troyes the Dean of a certain
... collegiate church, to wit, that of Lirey, falsely
... and deceitfully, being consumed with the passion of
... avarice, and not from any motive of devotion but
... only of gain, procured for his church a certain
... cloth cunningly painted . . .
...
... Pierre then describes the image on the cloth, which we
... today call the Shroud of Turin, along with the
... circumstances of the exhibitions and continues:
...
... Eventually, after diligent inquiry and examination,
... he [Henri de Poitiers] discovered the fraud and how
... the said cloth had been cunningly painted, the
... truth being attested by the artist who painted it,
... to with, that it was a work of human skill and not
... miraculously wrought or bestowed.
...
... Later in his letter, Pierre states:
...
... I offer myself here as ready to supply all
... information sufficient to remove any doubt
... concerning the facts alledged.
...
... Clement considered the matter and issued a Bull,
... which, although allowing exhibition of the cloth,
... ordered that it be advertised only as a "copy or
... representation." However, this directive was gradually
... forgotten, and the proclaimed shroud came to be the
... most venerated relic in Christendom.
...
... Mueller MM, The shroud of Turin: A critical
... appraisal. The skeptical Enquirer
... 1982:7(3):15-34.
So, got any more LIES to share with us? What a stunning
example of Xtianity you are! Is Jesus proud of you for your
lying?
... You are a stench in the nostrils of honest men! -- Henry Fonda ___
Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Cry-baby, cry-baby . . . (1:203/9046)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: Rewriting the truth
|Date: 03 Feb 97 15:48:21
EID:7c06 22437e00
MSGID: 1:3652/1 32F6A31E
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Al Schroeder <=-
AS> You think everyone needs to use the King James, perhaps? How fundy
of
AS> you.
KY> Well, it is the most accurate version, after all.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You misspelled "One True".
... Have I found God? What, did you lose him AGAIN?
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
* Origin: [The Dark Corner] Still Spitting 'Fire' (1:3652/1)
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|From: Jason Harmon
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: Why do you NEED to be saved?
|Date: 03 Feb 97 15:48:21
EID:9f8a 22437e00
MSGID: 1:3652/1 32F6A31F
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Martin Goldberg <=-
KY> Okay, you want to know why you need to be saved? Really, I think the
KY> answer is simple, but I will go on anyway.. Simply put, you need to
be
KY> saved so you will have everlasting life in Heaven. To be saved is to
KY> be saved from your sins, which doom you to Hell.
Any evidence for these places called Heaven and Hell?
... The Vogon ship hung in the air in precisely the same way bricks don't.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
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|From: David Ragland
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: J.J. needs to be Hitt
|Date: 02 Feb 97 22:56:00
EID:0d17 2242b700
MSGID: 1:3800/49 00101b37
DC>What the fuck are you quoting?
Something Al said...
DC>Try setting your OLR into doing something that is quotable.
Yessir....
DC>I leave it for you _AS_ what was sent above or your lack of
DC>writing skills in using 'as' and capitalizing all of them.
But I didn't write that. Lighten up. You're behaving like a simpleton
which I don't think you are. So, what's "really" bugging you? Jesus can
fix
that little problem ya know? The acrimonious response you just blasted
away
with would not even occur to you if you had the peace in your heart that
the
Holy Spirit can provide. "Charity", my friend. Try it. You will feel
much
better. You will not feel the need to come in here and speak this way to
people that have done nothing to deliberately offend you. This unmitigated
indignation that you express is unhealthy. I realize that you may "think"
that speaking in such impertinent and impious terms from behind a keyboard
to
people that cannot or will not touch you is a good stress reliever. Not
so.
In the long run it only does harm. You are going to give yourself a stroke,
man. Chill out.
I Corinthians:
13:4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not;
charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
13:5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not
easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
Peace,
David Ragland
---
SLMR 2.1a The trick in overcoming temptation, is to play dead.
* Origin: Tequilla Sunrise BBS (504)756-0383, Baton Rouge, LA (1:3800/49)
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|From: David Ragland
|To: Darryl Gonzalez
|Sub: Re: J.J. needs to be Hitt
|Date: 02 Feb 97 23:13:00
EID:3171 2242b9a0
MSGID: 1:3800/49 00101b3b
DG>A loud, shouted "AMEN!"
and a similarly resounding thanks! :)
DG>David Worrell, if you are reading this too, I urge you to repent.
He will read it. What's more, he will listen one day too. Hopefully
that day will not be, "Judgement Day," when he hears it from one that will
ask him, "why didn't you listen?" When it will be... too late. I have
something for you, Brother. Send me your address in email to: Tequila
Sunrise BBS @ 1-504-756-0383. I don't think they have internet e-mail.
Anyway, I think you will like my little weekly newsletter. I would be
interested in hearing your suggestions for improvements. If you like, I
can
put you on the mailing list to get it every week. My Church is working
on
buying new property at present as we have outgrown our building. Any ideas
for fund raising? My puny tithes just aren't getting it. :) Can't wait
'til
my computer business get's off the ground. :) Then my Wife and I can get
into some serious stuff, ie; funding missionaries, building Churches,
distributing my writing etc.
Peace,
David Ragland
---
SLMR 2.1a The ultimate Turn on. When they shoot at you.. and miss!
* Origin: Tequilla Sunrise BBS (504)756-0383, Baton Rouge, LA (1:3800/49)
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|From: David Ragland
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: hypocritical people
|Date: 02 Feb 97 23:30:00
EID:fa22 2242bbc0
MSGID: 1:3800/49 00101b3e
DC>So, Jonathan, why didn't your godling, with all the powers
DC>of his father, save himself?
John:
3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that
whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that
the world through him might be saved.
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not
is
condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only
begotten Son of God.
You savvy?
Peace,
David Ragland
---
SLMR 2.1a The universe is laughing behind your back
* Origin: Tequilla Sunrise BBS (504)756-0383, Baton Rouge, LA (1:3800/49)
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|From: David Ragland
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: hypocritical people
|Date: 02 Feb 97 23:39:00
EID:fa22 2242bce0
MSGID: 1:3800/49 00101b41
DC>You are talking about a revolution occurring in which there are
DC>only 2 swords to handle at least a legion of Roman soldiers.
DC>Your godling was an idiot, at best.
How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners
delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? Turn you at my reproof:
behold, I will pour out my spirit unto you, I will make known my words unto
you. Because I have called, and ye refused; I have stretched out my hand,
and
no man regarded; But ye have set at nought all my counsel, and would none
of
my reproof: I also will laugh at your calamity; I will mock when your fear
cometh; When your fear cometh as desolation, and your destruction cometh
as a
whirlwind; when distress and anguish cometh upon you. Then shall they call
upon me, but I will not answer; they shall seek me early, but they shall
not
find me: For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the
LORD: They would none of my counsel: they despised all my reproof.
Peace,
David Ragland
---
SLMR 2.1a The worst thing about censorship is __________.
* Origin: Tequilla Sunrise BBS (504)756-0383, Baton Rouge, LA (1:3800/49)
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|From: David Ragland
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: hypocritical people
|Date: 02 Feb 97 23:59:00
EID:fa22 2242bf60
MSGID: 1:3800/49 00101b44
DC>Don't you have a clue as to why the ' "s ' are there, fundy?
DC>And, do have a clue as to what 'hypocrisy' actually means?
I think he does. Also consider this:
Job 20:5 That the triumphing of the wicked is short, and the joy of the
hypocrite but for a moment
Peace,
David Ragland
---
SLMR 2.1a Their are trhee things wrong here.
* Origin: Tequilla Sunrise BBS (504)756-0383, Baton Rouge, LA (1:3800/49)
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|From: David Ragland
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 03 Feb 97 00:06:00
EID:fa22 224300c0
MSGID: 1:3800/49 00101b47
DC>That would be a start. At least at that point you will start
DC>to realize that you have been played hook, line and sinker
DC>as a fool.
Matthew 5:22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother
without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and
whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger
of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be
in danger of hell fire.
Good thing for you he is not your brother, huh? :I
Peace,
David Ragland
---
SLMR 2.1a There is one God, but which one is He?
* Origin: Tequilla Sunrise BBS (504)756-0383, Baton Rouge, LA (1:3800/49)
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|From: David Ragland
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 03 Feb 97 00:44:00
EID:fa22 22430580
MSGID: 1:3800/49 00101b4a
DC>"Poor taste"? Seems like this fundy needs a bit of seasoning.
DC>From what I've read from him, the only thing small around
DC>here is his mind.
Don,
If you are actually his intellectual superior, why not impart wisdom to
him
instead of only showing vain contempt?
Proverbs 26:12 Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? there is more
hope of a fool than of him.
In fact, why don't you show _all_ of us fundies a thing or three?
I Corinthians 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth
to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he
may be wise.
Show for once, without profanity and meritless scorn how we _should_ think.
Proverbs 1:5 A wise man will hear, and will increase learning; and
a
man of understanding shall attain unto wise counsels:
Reveal this great life philosophy of yours that is suppose to be superior
to
God's own counsel.
Proverbs 13:20 He that walketh with wise men shall be wise: but a
companion of fools shall be destroyed.
The ball is in your court, Don. If you are so intelligent, we will know
it
by the fruit of your intellect. We will seek your counsel if you can teach
us instead of incessantly reviling us.
Ecclesiastes 2:16 For there is no remembrance of the wise more than of
the
fool for ever; seeing that which now is in the days to
come shall all be forgotten. And how dieth the wise man?
as the fool.
Solomon is remembered for his wisdom. How do you want to be remembered,
Don?
As it stands now, you will be remembered in here only as the man that cussed
out the Christians every chance he got.
Ecclesiastes 8:1 Who is as the wise man? and who knoweth the
interpretation of a thing? a man's wisdom maketh his face
to shine, and the boldness of his face shall be changed.
Let us see your face, Don. Not the one that hides behind acrimonious
diatribes that are conducive to nothing. The one that wants to really get
to
the matter of a serious intelligent exchange of thoughts and ideals.
Peace,
David Ragland
---
SLMR 2.1a There once was a [ ] from [ ] whose [ ] was
* Origin: Tequilla Sunrise BBS (504)756-0383, Baton Rouge, LA (1:3800/49)
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|From: David Ragland
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Around the World in 80 P
|Date: 03 Feb 97 00:57:00
EID:5202 22430720
MSGID: 1:3800/49 00101b4d
DC>All that it means is that god let's you die on this world and
DC>takes you to a life in heaven that _doesn't_ last forever.
The _present_ Heaven won't last. That is _really_ what this scripture
means. If you want to learn how to interpret scripture instead of attack
it
out of fear, I can refer you to some good lesson sources. In the meantime,
you are not showing yourself to be more intelligent that us fundies with
these thinly veiled attempts to discredit that which you know so little
of.
Why are you doing this?
Revelation 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first
heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there
was no more sea.
Peace,
David Ragland
---
SLMR 2.1a These things on my nose aren't just for show.
* Origin: Tequilla Sunrise BBS (504)756-0383, Baton Rouge, LA (1:3800/49)
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|From: Leonard Bernier
|To: Dan Cappa
|Sub: hello
|Date: 03 Feb 97 13:18:00
EID:ead9 22436a40
PID: PDQMail v2.60 RE0333
PRAISE GOD !
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that
whoever believes in Him should not perish but have but everlasting life."
Our light affliction, which is but for for a moment, is working for us a
far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory. (2 Cor. 4:17)
* Origin: 1:225/364
Jesus Saves North Bay, ONT.
--- DLG Pro v1.0/PDQMail v2.60
* Origin: Far Point Station (1:225/364)
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|From: Leonard Bernier
|To: All
|Sub: Psalm 38:11 / Luke 23:49
|Date: 03 Feb 97 13:53:00
EID:45ef 22436ea0
PID: PDQMail v2.60 RE0333
PRAISE GOD !
PROPHECY: - The Messiah's friend will stand afar off.
"My loved ones and my friends stand aloof from my plague, and my relatives
stand afar off."
FULFILLMENT: "And all his acquaintance and the women who accompanied Him
from Galilee, were standing at a distance [from the events of Jesus
death], seeing these things."
Our light affliction, which is but for a moment, is working for us a far
more exceeding and eternal weight of glory.
Jesus Saves North Bay, ONT.
--- DLG Pro v1.0/PDQMail v2.60
* Origin: Far Point Station (1:225/364)
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|From: Jonathan Fingas
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 03 Feb 97 21:57:28
EID:c78a 2243af20
MSGID: 1:163/215.0 32f6a598
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 32eb6ebd
JF> another 1/3rd is what I'd call semi-Christian,
JF> that is they believe in
JF> God, Jesus and the whole thing, but do little to actually adhere to
JF> the principles or show their faith in some way.
DW> That's nice. Got any more evidence to support this
DW> claim than you do the claim that God exists?
What do you want? I've already given a chunk right here.
DW> Your say-so doesn't cut it little man. Give references.
So of course, when I actually DO give evidence, he refutes it. A little
hypocritical!
And in case you need to know, all those were from a long TV special on real-life
miracles on TLC. A little syrupy, but also a little hard to deny, since
they show before/after pictures (in the case of that swollen leg thing),
and talk to the doctors and scientists who couldn't explain the given miracle.
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: BitByters BBS, Rockland ON, Can. (613)446-7773 v34, (1:163/215)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: ...
|Date: 02 Feb 97 17:00:00
EID:a05e 22428800
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Lynda Bustilloz <=-
LB> So, were my half a decade's worth of prayers unanswered
LB> because God thought
LB> I'd get bored with not having to watch every second for the next
KY> blow?
KY> ALl prayers are answered, just maybe not as we might prefer or expect.
Ken, you're really gonna be sorry you said that. Trust me on this
one.
... He who dies with the most TAGLINES wins!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: BABY IN CRITICAL COND
|Date: 02 Feb 97 17:19:00
EID:c975 22428a60
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Lynda Bustilloz <=-
MB> The truly interesting thing is the local fundy who told us that
MB> killing all the newborns at S&G was an act of mercy. Since they
MB> died before they were old enough to understand what evil was,
MB> they were immediately and automatically sent to Heaven.
That is the position of many Protestant denominations, including
Al's.
MB> I pointed out to him that he had just given the most compelling
MB> argument imaginable for MANDATORY ABORTION!
Absolutely. Also for my suggestion to kill children before
they reach the age of accountability.
MB> Al is truly losing it. I have told him several times that he
MB> totally lacks compassion. Now it is here for everybody to see
MB> for themselves.
But killing them IS the compassionate thing. It's hard to get into
Heaven (according to the bible), so chances are anyone reaching
adulthood will end up in Hell.
... If we believe absurdities, then we shall commit atrocities...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: IT'S A BOY!
|Date: 02 Feb 97 17:57:00
EID:8875 22428f20
-=> Quoting Lee Woofenden to All <=-
LW> My wife and I have a new baby boy, born Thursday, January 30. Mother
LW> and baby
LW> are fine. (We also have a 7 year old daughter and an 18 month old
LW> son).
Congratulations! But is he real, or do you only imagine he's real?
... VD: Never practice license without a medicine.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: J.J. NEEDS TO BE HITT
|Date: 02 Feb 97 18:01:00
EID:edd9 22429020
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to David Ragland <=-
DR> AS Well, Dave, here is an answer where I might lose your friendship,
DR> but I AS have to answer honestly. I don't think so. I more or less
DC> hold
DR> the Garden AS of Eden story to be a metaphor, and I don't think
DR> humanity and the AS dinosaurs ever coexisted. I pretty much believe
DC> in
DC> What the fuck are you quoting?
DC> Try setting your OLR into doing something that is quotable.
DC> I leave it for you _AS_ what was sent above or your lack of
DC> writing skills in using 'as' and capitalizing all of them.
He's quoting Al Schroeder. And this is the same David Ragland who
was just telling us how intelligent he is.
And yet he can't get an OLR to work correctly...
ROTFL!
... My hard disk is full! Maybe I'll try this message section thing.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: NAKED PAGAN RITUALS
|Date: 02 Feb 97 18:07:00
EID:d821 224290e0
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Ronald Vass <=-
KY> May be just a tagline, but I had to respond.. In my Bible it says:
KY> The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray as soon as they
KY> are born, speaking lies.
KY> Nowhere does it say babies will go to Hell.. Rather it is
KY> reemphasizing that we are born with a wicked nature.. But, babies do
KY> not go to Hell, simply because they are not at the age of
KY> accountability yet.
Oh? Where does it say that, exactly? Chapter and verse, please.
Because otherwise, it's just tradition, not Gospel. And the verse
above would lead to dead (wicked) babies going to Hell.
Your next action will be to demonstrate the fundy shuffle for us.
... I know a good tagline when I steal one.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: OMNI-SADISTIC
|Date: 02 Feb 97 18:21:00
EID:4be2 224292a0
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> But Al, you started it, by claiming God was experiencing the rape
RH> because of it. Are you retracting omnipresent then?
MB> See! There he goes again. I really don't see how you can see
MB> you have a real clue to what he believes.
Ah, he's in damage control mode, that's all. I do know
what he's SUPPOSED to believe, and picking at the differences
is very helpful in breaking off chunks of the Armor.
MB> And, notice also how he chops off enough of the context so you
MB> don't readily realize that he has backpedaled to the extent that
MB> he has.
He can't fool me that way. I have my eye on him.
Al's quandary is in trying to start from "The Truth" and make
science fit it. It can't be done; the Universe is far stranger
than ignorant sheepherders could ever have imagined.
My hope is that he's honest enough to realize it eventually.
... A beautiful theory, killed by a nasty, ugly, little fact.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: REWRITING THE TRUTH
|Date: 02 Feb 97 18:26:00
EID:a93d 22429340
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Al Schroeder <=-
AS> You think everyone needs to use the King James, perhaps? How fundy
AS> of you.
KY> Well, it is the most accurate version, after all..
Bwahhhhahahahahahahahaha!
What makes you think so? Do you realize the English language has
changed so much that a perfect translation (then) is wrong NOW?
... Logic 101: Do not endeavor to prove negatives. Unless you're an idiot.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: O'god
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Brain Dead Believer
|Date: 01 Feb 97 12:26:10
EID:952e 22416340
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32F37DE2
DR> AS mine is 6700 Cabot Dr. Apt. J3, Nashville, TN 37209.
DR> Talk about your little miracles! I was just going to ask you for your
All the kids, rape & killed today, is a God miracle.
DR> address. I want to send you a copy of my newsletter so as to get
DR> some good,objective criticism. You will in turn have mine when you
You preach to a believer for Objective Criticism, cute. What your
really hopeing for is a pat on the back.
DR> get the letter.BTW, pretty brave of you to post this on here. :)
For a GOD BELIEVER who controls the mind of his God. It's no
big deal. Hell, if you can control how a god believes and acts,
whats a simple protoplasm body going to do to such a powerful
person ?
** The Trouble with liveing sacrifices **
** is they keep crawing off the altar. **
* SFEMB 0.41 [?] | Greetings from Rev. Satan. Live long & prosper.
* BBS TCode: -Devil-
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Al S. *-* Fine tuneing & dead God Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: ?
|Date: 01 Feb 97 11:50:00
EID:7d7f 22415e40
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32F55543
From: ROBERT CURRY
To: MIMI MILSTEIN
Subj: ?
-
RC> RC> You used the phrase "naked cruelty," as a matter of fact.
RC> MM> You just proved my point - you DID forget the beginning
RC> MM> of the thread.
While i was out beating the bushs looking for a Harry Truman
walking around mountain tops with a local creation fundy. I can across
a Mini van that was slipping down the side of another mountain
being assisted by a Harpy and an abacus.
Additional comments are prefaced by RFV.
****
Date: 12-30-96 (21:49)
From: MIMI MILSTEIN
To: RONALD VASS
Subj: enochban.rit
-
Hello Ronald!
Ronald Vass wrote about Michael Hardy:
RV> As far as any in the modem land knows, his wife, may have
....RFV....snip all my great pose..RFV.....
You really are a vicious jerk, aren't your?
-RFV-
**** - Mini van jumps out - ****
**** - Covered in war paint - ****
-RFV-
Date: 01-02-97 (18:36)
From: RONALD VASS
To: MIMI MILSTEIN
Subj: ?
>RV> together. What Mike 'The Pea Brain' believes and what
>RV> happens to 'pea brain', in the long run, only time will
>RV> tell.
MM>You really are a vicious jerk, aren't your?
Can't appear to be sucking up to Mike, now can I?
****
Date: 01-06-97 (09:28)
From: MIMI MILSTEIN
To: RONALD VASS
Subj: ?
-
[replying to your incredible tactless guesswork concerning
Michael's sick wife]
MM> You really are a vicious jerk, aren't your?
RV> Can't appear to be sucking up to Mike, now can I?
.RFV.........RFV...
RV> It will also be { his }-Right- to do so.
What 'grabbed my chain' was your naked cruelty - but then you
actually (unwillingly?) gave your motive away in another msg:
RV> I will await with baited breath, for the evidence of a soul.
RFV---I forgot about Mini dragging in a comment from another
- message with a totally different human. I was right,
- dealing with this topic it was the Mini van that
- fired a 'SOUL' shot first---RFV
- Feb 2 1997 -RFV-
This is only too true. BAIT is your prime mover, and SOUL seems
to be an alien commodity to you... regardless of how much you
hurt your correspondents. I will bet 'Empathy' and/or 'Draw the
Line' is not embroidered on any of your shirt pockets.
RFV--- So we got a Mini van, tossing out "BAIT", "SOUL" , "alien
commodity" and haveing strange writeings embroidered on shirt
pockets-----RFV- Feb 2 1997
****
Date: 01-09-97 (23:11)
From: RONALD VASS
To: MIMI MILSTEIN
Subj: ? S O U L ?
-RFV-
Change the topic again, picking up on the Mini van
topic of "SOUL" which she brought in.
-RFV- Feb 2 1997
****
* SLMR 2.1a * +Origin: Little Pricks! Brawley's Quantum Condoms.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Al S. *-* Fine tuneing & dead God Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Harpy correcting Mini van
|Date: 01 Feb 97 12:03:00
EID:4617 22416060
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32F55545
LB> MM> Lynda Bustilloz wrote in a message to Mimi Milstein:
> LB> Ron wasn't on target with his comment to Michael, so it
> LB> qualifies as a misfire, but not as a comment that was not
> LB> allowable or beyond the standards of Holysmoke as a whole.
LB>For clarification: The above is a statement of opinion on my part,
LB>not an assumption. Have you anything specific to dispute about it?
Hell, she step on a hornets nest and now she's crying because
she got stung.
* SLMR 2.1a * ... < Women's virtue is man's greatest invention.> ...
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Al S. *-* Fine tuneing & dead God Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Harpy Math ?
|Date: 02 Feb 97 16:21:00
EID:05bc 224282a0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32F55546
LB> AS> Make your bids NOW...
LB> AS> Being earthbound, I used "size" and "mass" more or less
LB> AS> interchangeably.
LB>hehe, so a pound of feathers and a pound of gold carry the same mass????
You did mean size or volume ? yes ?
LB>I think you used to work for some of the moving companies we've had try
to
LB>pack our things.
One must never pack books in a sea chest. Movers will hate you
for it.
* SLMR 2.1a * ... Keyboard Not Found. Press F1 to Continue ...
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Al S. *-* Fine tuneing & dead God Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 02 Feb 97 21:26:00
EID:e737 2242ab40
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32F55547
DC>-> On 27 Jan 97 05:33:47, Al Schroeder got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> AS> little girl, no matter what it depended on.
DC> DC> Such as the pro-life(???) xians can bomb abortion clinics because
DC> DC> their religion says that it's "evil"?
DC> AS> There I would blame the bomber.
DC> AS> So, I think, also does God.
DC>Why doesn't your god better and prevent the acts from ever
DC>happening?
You got a good one there Dan. Al's God could let the bomber, make
and plant his bomb. Then when the bomber set it up, all the
'fineing tuneing god' needs to do is stop a simple chemical reaction.
No mind rape of bomber. No mind rape of victum. No damage done.
Kind of shows where Al's God really rides on this love and careing
jag that Al talks about.
{ God of Love And Respect } ---- Not a chance ----
[1] Numbers 31:17-18
"Now therefore kill every male among the little
ones, and kill every woman who hath known man by
lying with him. But all the women children, that
have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive
for yourselves."
No careing for the weak nor rapeing of the young.
* SLMR 2.1a * ....I'm Not Born Again! Mon Got It Right The First Time!
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Al S. *-* Fine tuneing & dead God Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 02 Feb 97 21:38:00
EID:729d 2242acc0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32F55548
JF> DC> The bit about the 2 swords slowing down the legionaires has
JF> DC> to be the icing on the cake!
JF> So what is a non-fundy supposed to do? Say the Bible (or parts of
it) are
JF>lie?
If it looks like a lie, reads like a lie, it could be a lie.
JF> You have the most screwed up definition of what a fundy is.
So brainless thinking isn't a sign of a fundy ?
JF> What's supposed to be so funny about the swords? You wouldn't continue
to
JF>charge after someone who's brandishing a gun, would you? Don't think
so.
A person who doesn't know of the difference between what humans call
a Gun and a Sword, usually it's a good sign of, Fundy lack of thinking.
So you have any Evidence that the god group had guns ? Fuck the guns.
How about gun powder.
* SLMR 2.1a * ...The Popemobile: proof prayer doesn't work.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Al S. *-* Fine tuneing & dead God Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: hypocritical people
|Date: 02 Feb 97 21:45:00
EID:729d 2242ada0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32F55549
JF> DW> Jesus had to be *protected* from mere mortals? Is that
JF> DW> what you're really trying to say?
JF> So what would a peaceful deity gain from smiting enemies with lightning
bo
JF>or otherwise protecting himself? Nothing. Therefore, he gave way.
So your God can't even travel through time to safety ? Not much of a
God. Hell, even a human baby can do time travel.
* SLMR 2.1a * ...and this chalk line is the guy who broke in one night
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Al S. *-* Fine tuneing & dead God Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 02 Feb 97 21:47:00
EID:729d 2242ade0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32F5554A
JF> JF> The Bible is the only thing we have for proof,
JF> JF> and I'm content to
JF> JF> believe it.
JF> DW> The Bible is no more proof than the Koran, the Rig
JF> DW> Vedas, or any other holy book. It does not suffice.
JF> Neither does most of what you say.
Show him wrong or is it a case, You Can't.
* SLMR 2.1a * ...file not found.Backup Is Zap.Sure U Don't Want A Drink
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Al S. *-* Fine tuneing & dead God Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 02 Feb 97 21:48:00
EID:729d 2242ae00
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32F5554B
JF> Who the heck is Mr. Pot? Do you mean marijuana?
That's the only Pot I know.
So you can't cook, either ?
* SLMR 2.1a * .666 caliber of the beast
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: *-* Al S. *-* Fine tuneing & dead God Site *-* (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 02 Feb 97 21:54:00
EID:729d 2242aec0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32F5554C
Date: 01-30-97 (21:30) From: JONATHAN FINGAS To: JUDITH BANDSMA
JF>-=> Jonathan Fingas spoke thusly to Dan Ceppa <=-
JF> JF> read that previous message about swearing, and quite frankly you
seem
JF> JF> to be the worst excuse for a human being there is.
JF> JB> You seem to yell at
JF> JB> You think Dan is bad? (Why do these yahoos bring out the worst in
me?)
JF> JB> I've been needing someone to scream at for about a week now. You'll
do.
JF> Whereas I have only wanted to scream at people like you, who automatically
JF>brand people and jump into arguments for no other reason than to work
out th
JF>anger.
JF> JB> It's YOU who needs to go back and read the bible, little boy.
JF> JB> Now...FUCK OFF, ASSHOLE.
JF> JB> There, that's better.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
JF> Not really. Swearing shows a small vocabulary and poor taste.
^^^^^^^^^^
Perhaps not for you. Why do you make a claim that swearing, indicates
a "small Vocabulary and poor taste."? You don't even know Judith, yet.
Did your god tell you that?
* SLMR 2.1a * 2 HOURS to bury a dog?? Well, it wasn't dead
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: O_jesus_fucking_christ
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: F U N D Y A L E R T
|Date: 03 Feb 97 01:24:47
EID:22cd 22430b00
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32F58CE7
JF> By the way, personal attacks can get you kicked out of this forum,
JF> so I'dsuggest you come up with something other than lame name-calling.
R I G H T. Another F U N D Y stunt. Asshole -- Fuck up
piece of shit --
There you go. Now bitch to the moderator about name calling.
* SFEMB 0.41 [?] | Killing / War / Rape / Murder =>see Reglion<=
* BBS TCode: -Devil-
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Unicorns and Dragons aren't mythical.Virgins are. (1:221/1503)
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|From: O_jesus_fucking_christ
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: F U N D Y A L E R T
|Date: 03 Feb 97 01:45:37
EID:6666 22430da0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32F58CE8
JF> DH> Now, where is your evidence? Was the universe created in
JF> DH> six twenty-four hour days?
JF>
JF> Was it created over 20 billion years? No one can prove that, and
JF> I'mcontent with my belief. You can stick to whatever you want.
Does the Holy Book of Lies indicate 20 billion
years. If not, why did you pull up that value ?
Another F U N D Y S T U N T ... is stupid statements ...
like prove it. Very few things are 100% , try E V I D E N C E
to back up your statements.
The sun may appear to rise in the eastern skys tomorrow
but i have NO Proof, that it will. There is evidence to
show that the sun likely will perform as usual though.
* SFEMB 0.41 [?] | Hitler was a Christian
* BBS TCode: -Devil-
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Unicorns and Dragons aren't mythical.Virgins are. (1:221/1503)
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|From: God_and_brain_dead_fundy
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Re: Hypocritical people
|Date: 03 Feb 97 01:57:45
EID:2bb1 22430f20
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32F58CE9
JF> DC> Nope, it looks like you don't want to look at what your dongma
JF> DC> has become, let alone know about where it came from.
JF>
JF> I didn't say I liked what it had become (or rather, parts of it).
JF> But Iknow where it came from - Israel. Any person on their soapbox
JF> (even on one asflimsy as yours) can see that.
Another fundy stunt, is the fucking nut cases think their
reglion, started in - "Israel" -
With god followers like this, it's no wonder they had to kill
to get the myth off the ground.
JF> * Origin: BitByters BBS, Rockland ON, Can. (613)446-7773 v34,
What a SHAME that Canada has assholes like this.
* SFEMB 0.41 [?] | Devil's Advocate <519>
* BBS TCode: -Devil-
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Unicorns and Dragons aren't mythical.Virgins are. (1:221/1503)
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Educational Experience
|Date: 03 Feb 97 12:49:50
EID:a83a 22436620
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 6c9a71c8
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32eed76c
On (29 Jan 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> JS> But slandering an entire group of human beings just because of their
JS> JS> ideology or beliefs is OK, isn't it Ceppa...
JS> RS> You make the assumption that Christians are deserving of being
JS> RS> recognised as human.
JS> RS> How silly of you, Jim.
JS> I see. If not, then what?
RS> I believe that the quotation is from one of the US's greatest
RS> men:
RS> Those who deny the rights of others deserve them not for
RS> themselves.
RS> I'm sure you can correct the quotation. I don't have a relevant
RS> quotation guide to check the exact wording of, Jefferson's (I
RS> believe) quote.
I have no problem with the quote. I just want an answer to my question
JS> Why are you so bigoted against one segment of society, Rod?
RS> No, not a segment of society. Only certain Christians. The ones
RS> who would deprive me of life, liberty, property, freedom, or rights.
RS> Those people deserve a similar and equally damning opposition to
RS> their agenda of hatred.
What has any of this to do with not recognizing Christians as human?
RS> You are a person that holds such an agenda of hatred, Jim.
RS> ...you really should give up your Jesus-inspired hatred
And you, sir, are an ignorant liar! You know nothing of me, and
certainly from your post, you know nothing of the inspiration of Jesus.
... and pulling back on the stick makes the cow smaller...
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: the promise keepers
|Date: 03 Feb 97 12:53:16
EID:de1e 224366a0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 9cf05f1f
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32eeda02
On (29 Jan 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> RS> Ah, bull crap, Jim. It's in it for the money. Tens of thousands
JS> RS> of people paying at least $50 is MILLIONS of dollars of income.
JS> RS> And the cost of the events are really small in comparison to the
JS> RS> income generated.
JS> Evidence of this alleged 'profit'?
RS> The dozens of critical reports into the financing of such scams
RS> as the Promisekeepers. Stadiums don't cost millions of dollars
RS> to hire for a day. Probably, conservatively, maybe $50,000.
RS> Care to give your local stadium a call and ask how much they
RS> charged the Promisefilth last time they were there?
Can't answer my question above, can you.
JS> Evidence of this alleged 'profit'?
RS> Has been provided.
You are merely a blatant liar evidencing only his own ignorance and
penchant for shooting of his mouth with nothing to back it up with,
fact-wise.
JS> Plus administration: (1 Cor 9:14 NIV) In the same way, the Lord has
JS> commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living
JS> from the gospel.
RS> Given the highly inflated estimate I gave of $750,000 being used
RS> out of the generated $3.75 million per event (based on 75,000
RS> people at $50 ticket), their expenses would be about 22%.
RS> Why would an organisation need 78% for administration?
Evidence other than mere assumption on your part? BTW, my scripture
quote above makes no mention on what standard that living is to be
based.
RS> And they should receive their *living* from the gospel. I'm sure
RS> that's a basic provision (food, water, shelter, basic ministry
RS> administration and employees), not lavish homes, holidays,
RS> travel, women, and cars :)
Evidence?
JS> Mine was free. A kind brother covered the cost as well as lodging.
RS> But someone paid. If the Promisekeepers are so *honest*, they'd
RS> be fair, and just, and make the cost of attending such
RS> conferences be based SOLELY upon cost-recovery for the operation
RS> of the conference.
Sounds to me like they do.
RS> Not with the 78% profit-taking by the religious scammers running
RS> the show.
Evidence?
JS> RS> Rod "and besides, the promisefilth are hateful bigots anyway!"
Swift
JS> RS> :)
JS> I don't know about this 'promise filth', but Rod Swift sure is, as
JS> evidence by his previous post.
RS> Do you know how much money from the Promisekeepers was rerouted
RS> into supporting the push for Colorado Amendment 2?
No. Do you? Do I care? What is this 'amendment 2'? How does it affect
you in any way?
... Why buy shampoo when real poo is still free?
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 03 Feb 97 12:59:31
EID:688a 22436760
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 88b5f95f
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32ef28a2
On (29 Jan 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> Describe this alleged 'healthy pride'?
RS> Positive self-image, self-esteem, self-value, self-worth.
You have done well. Now which of the above do you lack (and why) that
makes you so hateful towards Christians? Everything above comes from
within. It is called 'self-affirmation'. Do you have the opinion that
by putting your lies on me that you are building yourself up?
... Passed my urine test! Hit the bulls-eye 4 out of 5 times!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Well, women?
|Date: 03 Feb 97 13:03:01
EID:3242 22436860
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 70c77264
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32ef2f00
On (29 Jan 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
RS> * On 13-01-97 at 19:05, JIM STAAL wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
RS> on the topic of "Well, women?" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> FR> You are a Promisekeeper, mouthing off in hate.
JS> Hmmmm...wherein do you find hate in the 7 promises of the Promise
JS> Keepers [tm]?
RS> In the same place that you can read:
RS> "...to keep our families strong"
RS> can you read the hate in":
RS> "...to keep our race strong"
Where do you find this?
RS> It is the Promisekeeper's "our way, or no way" xenophobic
RS> supremacism that is hateful.
Where do you find this?
... I will sing a dirge in your honor and wear your skin with pride.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Stupid Staal Fiascoes
|Date: 03 Feb 97 13:03:47
EID:64ff 22436860
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 712ad2e9
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32f186aa
On (31 Jan 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
RS> * On 19-01-97 at 12:32, JIM STAAL wrote to DAN CEPPA,
RS> on the topic of "Stupid Staal Fiascoes" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> FR> I am condemning no one. The homosexual who sexually practices
JS> FR> his homosexuality condemns himself." - Jim Staal
JS> DC> Shit, that blows a current message he just sent right out
JS> DC> of the water.
JS> Which current message might that be?
RS> The one in which you challenge Fredric to provide some posts of
RS> yours that show your homohatred.
Which current message might that be?
... * Yip Yip Yap Yip Yip Yap Yip Yip Y...BANG! NO TERRIER
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Buttfuck Staal
|Date: 03 Feb 97 13:04:20
EID:58ee 22436880
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 22196a97
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32f18d18
On (31 Jan 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
RS> * On 18-01-97 at 09:10, JIM STAAL wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
RS> on the topic of "Buttfuck Staal" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> FR> By the way: Have any evidence for this "Christ" construct of yours,
JS> FR> buttfuck? Any at all?
JS> Have any evidence to support your judgements of me in regard to being
a
JS> 'buttf**k'?
RS> Oh yes, we are mistaken. He's the product of Mary's body trying
RS> to spontaneously abort.
Wow! I guess you really answered my question, alright...
... House? The computer room is attached to a house?
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Educational Experience
|Date: 03 Feb 97 13:04:49
EID:a83a 22436880
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 8f149c29
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32f18d56
On (31 Jan 97) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
RS> * On 18-01-97 at 09:30, JIM STAAL wrote to AL SCHROEDER,
RS> on the topic of "Educational Experience" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> yeah, and Jim Staal not only recognizes gays as human, but even
JS> JS> befriends them. Go figure...
JS> AS> Good to know.
JS> Good to have someone besides me recognize it. :)
RS> Jeez, with all your lovey-dovey behaviour, you'd be thinking you
RS> were in a sexual relationship with Al.
Which part of the message did you get that from, and why did you ignore
my statement above?
... It's better to be wanted for murder than not to be wanted at all...
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 03 Feb 97 13:06:20
EID:82ee 224368c0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 980effb4
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 32f3b6b4
On (01 Feb 97) Ken Young wrote to Jim Staal...
JK> Just like fundies say that Jim Jones and David Koresh aren't
JK> of thier ilk? A true fundie seems to think that no
JS> matter how vile and
JK> evil thier own actions they are 'saved' and thus forgiven.
JS> I know nothing of these 'fundies' of which you speak. I do know,
JS> however, that individuals who make claims of being the returned Messiah
JS> are no Christians.
KY> Oh, I agree completely.. However, at least with Koresh, he never
KY> claimed to be the Messiah.
I was under the impression (from reading much about the man and his
claims - he attracted my attention by being a musician and songwriter)
that he claimed to be God incarnate.
... Let them learn first to shew piety at home. - 1 Timothy 5:4
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Pedophile Christian cooks / NAMBLA
|Date: 03 Feb 97 13:07:33
EID:84b7 224368e0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 2a265de8
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 74961069
On (31 Jan 97) Martin Goldberg wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> (just to assist in getting your personal goat)
MG> Is a personal goat anything like a personal savior?
No.
... He that denieth the faith, and is worse than an infidel. - 1 Tim. 5:8
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Planned freewill
|Date: 03 Feb 97 13:07:46
EID:80ce 224368e0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 84e1ccba
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 74961347
On (31 Jan 97) Martin Goldberg wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> 'walking Bible') but when I discovered him making his
JS> 'astounding predictions' based on scripture taken out of
JS> context, I dropped it.
MG> Is he related to Appleton.
No, I'm not aware of it...
... Abstain from all appearence of evil. (1 The 5:22)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Pedophile Christian cooks / NAMBLA
|Date: 03 Feb 97 13:09:11
EID:02b0 22436920
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 a624f43e
REPLY: 1:229/622 32f29a60
On (01 Feb 97) Dave Hamilton wrote to Jim Staal...
DH> About a message of Jim Staal to Dave Hamilton:
DH> FR>> "Mabon" is actually Jim Staal- it's one of his racist
DH> personalities.
DH> DH>> I wonder if he realizes that his comedy doesn't get through.
JS> Wasn't intended for comedy, jsut getting Freddie's goat.
DH> Gee, I read every post here, having lots of time. Perhaps you
DH> should give this some thought. I can't see any difference whatsoever
DH> between this Mabon character and the CRC. None.
For one, I don't think Mabon is a Calvinist. :) Also, articles appearing
in the official publication of the church (The Banner) take just the
opposite approach of mister Mabon concerning gay issues.
DH> DH>>The conscriptions and indoctrinations go fine. It's the
DH> percentage of DH>> the subject's life thereafter which is almost
DH> completely fucked up DH>> that ensues that needs to be considered.
JS> What is the percentage and what evidence do you have to support this
JS> claim?
DH> I have no idea.
Precisely my point.
DH> What I did to determine the validity of the CRC
DH> high schools was to call the university where I teach and ask them
DH> how many students had ever in 30 years been accepted from CRC high
DH> schools. This isn't scientific, but it is the university one of my
DH> kids wants to attend. Answer: zero.
And that university is...? Relevance?
DH> What evidence do you have that parochial schools can, even on average,
DH> graduate students equally prepared as public school students for real
DH> universities? I don't mean CRC seminaries, I mean accredited
DH> universities who offer degrees sufficient to enter graduate school.
That can be obtained. The evidence that I have seen suggests that in
West Michigan, the education receive in our schools consistantly
surpasses that of the local public schools.
... Be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath. - James 1:19
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 03 Feb 97 13:13:16
EID:73e2 224369a0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 3b5b9e0a
REPLY: 1:229/622 32f29c26
On (01 Feb 97) Dave Hamilton wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> What people do behind closed doors is, in my opinion, their biz.
DH> So then, do you actively support their right to do that under law,
DH> or actively stop them from doing it by law? Which?
Yes. I currently oppose the drug laws in my state. As far as sexual
issues, they are not an issue here.
JS> But
JS> to take what is declared wrong and say openly that it is right, I
JS> can't agree with.
DH> Yes, well, we're not talking philosophical games here, we're talking
DH> laws that have an effect on people's lives. Which?
I'm not talking philosophy here, either. My statement above is perfectly
clear.
DH> Do the laws of the bible equal the laws of the land?
Obviously not or we wouldn't be murdering helpless infants by the
millions annually...
DH> Should they?
As a Christian, I say definitly. As an American, I have to say no. I
would rather have God bring about a moral revival in the hearts of the
people than have Congress legislate our personal lives.
DH> Do
DH> you have the balls to state your position?
Obviously.
... Many false prophets shall rise, and shall decieve many. (Matt 24:11)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Apostasy
|Date: 03 Feb 97 13:19:13
EID:43af 22436a60
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 62782d5e
REPLY: 1:372/62.0 8A825B35
On (29 Jan 97) Judith Bandsma wrote to Al Schroeder...
-=> Al Schroeder spoke thusly to Michael Hardy <=-
AS> BTW, everybody reading this, go to Lynda's web page...there are two
AS> midi files WRITTEN by Mike, one for the main page, and one for the HS
AS> page. Good stuff.
JB> Wouldn't it be absolutely lovely if you could allow people to take
JB> credit for their own accomplishments?
JB> Besides the fact that this had nothing to do with the topic at hand,
JB> I know for a fact that you were NOT asked to be the herald of this
JB> achievement.
JB> Trying to take credit for others' works again, Al?
And they call Lynda 'cattybtch'. ;) It would be interesting to know if
Judy would even think you could fart right.
... * Yip Yip Yap Yip Yip Yap Yip Yip Y...BANG! NO TERRIER
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 03 Feb 97 13:20:39
EID:62ce 22436a80
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 bca9fdad
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32eee342
On (29 Jan 97) Rod Swift wrote to Domino...
RS> * On 10-01-97 at 18:02, DOMINO wrote to JIM STAAL,
RS> on the topic of "Oops, Caught Again" in echo Holysmoke:
DO> Jim, having seen Dan during his little streak, remarked:
DO> JS> What evidence do you have to make such an accusation?
DO> What evidence do you have to say that Jesus was male and the Bible is
DO> an accurate reference for anything besides the beleifs and practices
DO> of Christianity?
RS> Domino... Let's make a pact to destroy Staalin here :) :) I'm
RS> sure that having two "sexually-challenged" individuals chasing
RS> after him would be a riotous laugh :)
Trust me, you wouldn't be able to keep up.
RS> I'm
RS> sure that having two "sexually-challenged" individuals chasing
Why do you refer to yourself as such? Some sort of 'self-esteem'
problem? I have a song just for you. It is called 'Love yourself/Love
your neighbor' (c 1995 James N. Staal) It is very biblical and applies
righteously to your personality.
... For in Him we live, and move, and have our being. - Acts 17:28
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Educational Experience
|Date: 03 Feb 97 13:23:25
EID:a83a 22436ae0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 1f9d49dd
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 32ef1e42
On (29 Jan 97) Rod Swift wrote to Al Schroeder...
RS> * On 11-01-97 at 22:01, AL SCHROEDER wrote to JIM STAAL,
RS> on the topic of "Educational Experience" in echo Holysmoke:
AS> RS> You make the assumption that Christians are deserving of being
AS> RS> recognised as human.
AS> RS> How silly of you, Jim.
AS> JS> I see. If not, then what? Why are you so bigoted against one segment
AS> JS> of society, Rod?
AS> Ahhhh, but you can't call it "bigotry," Jim. Despite the fact that
he
AS> often complains about bigoted treatment towards gays, Rod would doubtless
AS> be incensed to know he is doing THE EXACT SAME THING to another
AS> group...and just as mindlessly, just as prejudicially.
RS> Sorry, but I have a legitimate concern that is quite logically
RS> emulated into action.
I'm sure there are many anti-gays out there that believe they have the
exact motivation as you.
... "Mommy, mommy! Where's Fluffy?" "Shut up and finish your casserole."
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: FREE WILL
|Date: 03 Feb 97 08:36:00
EID:7211 22434480
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Lynda Bustilloz <=-
JB> consciousness in some way --to "prevent his permanent eradication from
JB> the universe".... That alone would make it worthwhile (if the God
JB> actually existed), even if It was essentially powerless in all other
JB> respects, eh?
I don't see why. From a strictly utilitarian standpoint, what good
is a powerless intellect? What difference would it make if He died?
You seem to be saying "He exists and He's really, really big, so we
must worship Him".
Non sequiter, John.
... Do what you will with this tagline, just don't bother me about it!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: MILLENNIUM LUNACY
|Date: 03 Feb 97 08:54:00
EID:eec2 224346c0
-=> Quoting John Brawley to Dan Ceppa <=-
JB> labelling system. So: which is it? All I can get out of most people
JB> is that they agree there was NO "YEAR called the ZEROeth year," which
JB> does NOT answer the question....
God'll get you for lying, John. I told you that a) there is no zero
year and b) the first year is year 1, of necessity.
And that's why you can't easily calculate the interval between
AD and BC years. You NEED the zero year.
... Welcome to Hell! Here's your copy of Windows.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: OF THREATS OF HELL...
|Date: 03 Feb 97 10:59:00
EID:fa04 22435760
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32F67CA2
From: ROGER HUNTER Refer#: NONE
To: MARILYN BURGE Recvd: NO
RH> -=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> MB> Al just LOVES to play both sides of the street on nearly every
RH> MB> issue in which he becomes enbroiled. I don't have a clue what
RH> MB> he really thinks about anything, because he doesn't have the
RH> MB> moral fortitude to admit to himself what his position is on
RH> MB> major issues, nor does he have the moral fortitude to state
RH> MB> clearly and unambiguously what those positions are -- even to
RH> MB> himself -- and honestly admit at what point those positions
RH> MB> break down under the light of pure reason.
RH>He doesn't seem that way to me. He's conceded several points
RH>lately, which is not the typical fundy behavior. And he has
RH>admitted that Hell troubles him.
Did Al ever answer your 'split brain' and how the 'soul' ties into
it. After all he is back to telling readers that the soul is
impress by the brain after death.
To you he may concede a point but by his actions, it would appear
that he's back to his old Al patterns of thought/bullshit. Same pattern
of behaviour as he's now, appearing to be heading down the road that
abuse has no effects on the victum mind again. It didn't stick or is
that doesn't stick, when the teacher has hir back turned.
* SLMR 2.1a * 2 most common elements in the universe.hydrogen\stupidity
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Unicorns and Dragons aren't mythical.Virgins are. (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 03 Feb 97 11:07:00
EID:8aa0 224358e0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32F67CA3
MG> KY> I doubt very much if he is specifically keeping food from
MG> KY> people..
MG>Sure sounds like he is to me.
MG>Btw, don't you have a middle name? I'm too busy laughing at your initials
t
MG>post too much to you.
How very slick, O_ slippery one.
* SLMR 2.1a * 2nd law of Thermodynamics: Fundies continue to get dumber
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Unicorns and Dragons aren't mythical.Virgins are. (1:221/1503)
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|From: Ronald Vass
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: the other shoe
|Date: 03 Feb 97 18:14:00
EID:9257 224391c0
MSGID: 1:221/1503 32F67CA4
RS> * On 09-01-97 at 10:27, AL SCHROEDER wrote to RONALD VASS,
RS> on the topic of "the other shoe" in echo Holysmoke:
RS>AS> AS> Ron.
RS>AS> RV>
RS>AS> RV> You were addressing a post to the Swift Rod of truth.
RS>AS> Typo. But my apologies both to you and Rod.
RS>Apology not accepted.
I ignore his statement also.
RS>AS> Never doubted it for a minute. And certainly nothing would keep
him fro
RS>AS> doing so. But after looking at, say, six posts from Ron all responding
RS>AS> points raised in AUGUST, it seems pretty silly. ---
RS>See the underlined text above as to why your apology is not
RS>accepted by me, because it was never sincere by you, Al.
You notice that slight mistake also. Once the lies start, he can't
seem to quit.
RS>AS> It seems quite appropriate at the time. Since Loki loves mischief.
RS>But highly erroneous, and merely speculative. Of course, any
RS>such expectation of an apology on my behalf contains a caveat
RS>that will state that it was never sincere in the first place.
He will wait till your back is turn, and bless your apology anyhow.
RS>AS> RV> To address Rod as Ron was cute enought, but that pearl, was
even
RS>AS> Don't confuse Machiavellian scheming for a simple typo, Ron.
RS>A simple typo you *again* repeat in this reply to Ron.
Boy your a sharp wippersnapper.
RS>AS> RV> If i were to believe in a god, it would be Lucifer, since going
by
RS>AS> RV> book of lies, Lucifer at least tells the truth. Brings the light
of
RS>AS> RV> day upon the evil of the christian belief/god and shows of its
rot.
RS>AS> Which is no doubt why Jesus refers to him as "the father of lies..."
Bu
RS>AS> many people know that the cleverest way to tell a lie is to tell
a half
RS>AS> truth.
RS>So you now admit to being under Satan's control with the litany
RS>of lies in both your first post in this thread to me, and your
RS>blatant dishonesty in this latest reply?
Al doesn't appear to follow Satan, Al bullshits and lies to often.
RS>Rod "...I expect you to do nothing less than fall on a sword over
RS>this issue, and admit you are actually wrong, Al. No half-baked
RS>explanations, just admission." Swift :(
Lots of luck. Thats a myth too.
* SLMR 2.1a * 665...The Neighbor of the beast...Devil's Advocate...
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Unicorns and Dragons aren't mythical.Virgins are. (1:221/1503)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: 'Bible Prophesy'
|Date: 03 Feb 97 07:23:39
EID:dc22 22433ae0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f6c6f7
AS> As far as I know, neither had people giving up their lives for a
AS> claim of miracles within the lifetime of those who could
AS> debunk same...
MG> Al, I have ten minutes to tell you this before COPS comes on....
I'm that way about X-Files or Babylon Five...
MG> Are you really trying to say that no one that believed in Naziism gave
MG> their life for it? Are you saying that some of those clowns that have
Of course not. You gotta read the whole thing above. Millions have died
for belief in religion, in causes, in whatever. But that is abstract
faith. But giving your life for what you claim you have witnessed...and
realize is a lie? THAT's what is extraordinary.
MG> devoted their entire lives to Elvis, Scientology, Appleton style
MG> Creationism or any of the million other horse shit causes you could
MG> think of haven't given their life? do they need to die to have wasted
MG> an entire life on nonsense?
It's certainly the best earnest that they believe in what they are saying.
Now, Joan of Arc gave her life for her "voices". And I doubt if anyone
really doubts she heard voices, most would just assume she was hearing
auditory hallucinations. I incline that way myself. But I doubt if too
many people think she gave up her life and was burned for the stake for
something she DIDN'T believe, correct?
But a SHARED hallucination? What is the mechanism that causes the
hallucination to be shared? You have just replaced one miracle or
paranormal incident for another.
MG> Whether they die or not int heir cause is not the question. Teh
MG> question is, did they waste a signifigantportion of their mortal span
MG> dealing with it. In this way, Elvis worship is just like the religion
MG> of the christian god.
Hmmm. And Michael Jackson is the antiElvis?
... Die smiling, life is too important to take seriously.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: ...
|Date: 03 Feb 97 07:51:23
EID:3767 22433e60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f6c6f8
RH> Yes Al, that's a perfectly valid explanation for many self-serving
RH> prayers being refused.
Good.
RH> Now tell us how it extends to the desperate prayer of a tortured child
RH> seeking relief or protection.
RH> Your free will argument sounds pretty weak here.
Well...if you were God, what would you do in such a case? I have no doubt
what you would do as an INDIVIDUAL...that you would act to save and
protect the child, correct? But try to imagine an omnipotence that would
allow you to do that to all crimes everywhere, at once, and forever.
Imagine how the rest of humanity would react...at being herded.
... Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: ...
|Date: 03 Feb 97 07:59:57
EID:9daf 22433f60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f6c6f9
AS> Yeah? You ever read Augustine's experience? Just a tad different
AS> from Einstein's insights...and doubtless, Einstein's were more
AS> useful. Despite the fact, to his horror, they birthed the
AS> atom bomb.
RC> Yet Augustine's religious heirs have killed more people than atom
RC> bombs ever did.
Granted. The most powerful things are as powerful in their misuse as in
their use. Freedom is a powerful concept, and it has been used and
misused. Religion is even more powerful, both in its use and misuse.
It might be balanced against the female infants who were exposed to
infanticide in the classical pagan world....and who were instead allowed
to live under the Christian worldview. Over centuries, for over a thousand
and a half years.
... Dijon Vu: The feeling that you've tasted this mustard before.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: ...
|Date: 03 Feb 97 08:42:48
EID:9daf 22434540
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f6c6fa
AS> Charge me as a negligent parent.
RC> And the appropriate response to a god that does the exact same thing
RC> which you consider a chargeable offense?
Wonder if there is a reason He is not acting. And then with a little
thought, come up with an answer.
RC> You would _worship_ such a monster?
One who refuses to take away volition and impose His will on another,
which is exactly what the rapist is doing to another? Indeed. To do
otherwise is to emulate the rapist.
RC> To watch and do nothing? Would you be excused from being charged as
RC> a negligent parent if only you refused to watch?
If I uniformly imposed my will on everyone, I would be charged as a
tyrant. A benevolent one, perhaps. But a tyrant nevertheless.
RC> Is it just that you reserve being an accessory before the fact
RC> "justifiable" for your god? Or do you think that your child,
RC> after being tortured as you stand by and watch, should love you
RC> all the more for your tender consideration of the torturer's
RC> "free will?"
I think if I could uniformly police the world and prevent every crime, I
would think my child would hate me all the more, for keeping him from
making mistakes, and lettting HIM make decisions.
RC> Ah, yes -- "special circumstances" -- meaning that negligent abuse
RC> of one's child is just wonderful and OK because....
RC> Because....
It is neither "wonderful" or "OK". But one doesn't kill to prevent
killing, without being the same as what you are trying to eradicate. One
doesn't control to stop control without becoming a worse controller
yourself.
AS> We are dealing with an omniscient and omnipotent being,
RC> Because a god is not held to ethical standards?
No; because He sets those selfsame standards.
AS> who if He changes the way He reacts to us will have enourmous
AS> repurcussions for all of us.
RC> Because a god cannot save a child from being raped, due to some
RC> unspecified "enormous repercussions."
I've specified them over and over again, Robert. Loss of initiative. A
feeling of being trapped, of living in a divine police state, a
supernatural theocracy which can never be overthrown. Loss of true freedom
of thought and action, for fear that it would go against a Big Brother who
you can never escape and never thwart.
RC> Bullshit, and you know it, Al.
No; enormously true. Would you trade the freedom we enjoy in America for
a
well-run police state, where every room is observed by cameras, and any
infraction will be dealt with immediately? Say, Orwell's 1984? I imagine,
with the big TV/screen/cameras, that child abuse was at a minimum in
Orwell's society. I wouldn't.
RC> The real reason you have such a double standard is because (1) you
RC> are committed to defending religious dogmas while (2) you are unable
RC> to deny the fact that *IF* a god existed outside imagination, it
RC> would be chargeable with child abuse by your own ethical standards.
Then we must charge the goverment for not installing cameras and
punishment devices into every home which would prevent 99% of child abuse?
In your own words...
RC> Bullshit, and you know it,
Robert. Will you charge the entire Congress, the Presidency, and the
Judicial Branch, for not allowing such?
RC> So you have to weasel your way out by appealing to supposed "enormous
RC> repercussions" that are too big for an omnipotent god to handle.
Oh, He can HANDLE them well enough...while robbing us of everything that
would make us human.
... Better to understand a little than to misunderstand a lot.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: a reason
|Date: 03 Feb 97 09:00:22
EID:06c4 22434800
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f6c6fb
RC> Divine sadism.
AS> It's a possibility.
RC> "Ask and ye shall receive." "Help!" "Sorry, you're on your own."
"I want to make my OWN decisions!" "Fine, do so." "How DARE you let that
happen to me."
RC> The evidence clearly points to Jesus WANTING those little
RC> children to be raped (supposing you assume the existence
RC> of a god to begin with).
AS> Then why isn't every child raped?
RC> Because humans are better than the monstrous god you imagine,
RC> and generally take steps to protect their children from such
RC> horrors. Even you wouldn't stand idly by -- that takes a monster.
As if parents could stop an omnipotent god from doing ANYTHING.
... And, pray tell, whose imagination are you a figment of?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: A Serious Question
|Date: 03 Feb 97 09:22:14
EID:75bf 22434ac0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f6c6fc
RC> The particular class of possible biologies is dependent upon the
RC> particular constants; other constants would imply a different class
RC> of possible biologies.
AS> Interesting assertion.
RC> It's self-evident, Al. Biology operates according to physical
RC> constraints; and thus if you change those constraints, you thereby
RC> change that particular biology in question.
That's presupposing a biology can arise at ALL. That's the interesting
assertion. You are in effect saying that no matter which constants arise,
there is a class of possible biologies under that different class of
constants. It's that assertion I question, as unevidenced and unsupported.
AS> Please delineate such a change in constants, and then devise a
AS> biology that will work, in theory.
RC> Any change would have some effect. We can only speculate on the
RC> details.
We can make an informed speculation, though.
AS> You first.
RC> ROFL! I'm not the one who's making the outrageous claim to know all
RC> about the possibilities for infinitely many "alternate universes," Al.
RC> That would be, let's see, YOU.
No, YOU are the one CLAIMING to know that in alternative
constants-cosmoses biologies are possible. By what criteria are you making
that assertion?
RC> What I am saying is:
RC> (1) You are full of shit, as you have no actual data.
We have reasonable extrapolation from known data. At least 700 pages of
it
in the ANTHROPIC COSMOLOGICAL PRINCIPLE. Among others.
RC> (2) Naturally, changes in physical constants would change any possible
RC> biological systems, perhaps even allowing for some to exist that
RC> are quite unlike anything we know. To claim you know intelligent
RC> life any any kind whatsoever would be impossible is ridiculous.
In a universe that recollapsed in a month's time, for instance? It is you
who are clinging fundy-like to a belief in invisible pink hippos in
alternative constant-comoses which MAY exist...and unable to provide a
plausible mechanism for same.
... Infinity is just time on an ego trip.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Al decides what Jesus knows!
|Date: 03 Feb 97 09:33:22
EID:b06e 22434c20
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f6c6fd
AS> Hector's quick judgements strike again, rather. Obviously an
AS> infinite mind cannot be downloaded into a finite brain.
Jd> Well, well, well....so your god _isn't_ all-powerful after all!
He doesn't do logical impossibilities, no. Nonsense is still nonsense,
even if humans put "God can" in front of it.
AS> Common sense. Try it some time. Was there any point during Jesus'
AS> stay on Earth that He needed to know the depth of the snowfall on
AS> Pluto?
Jd> Well, Al, since your god 'probe' was in the neighbourhood anyway,
Jd> perhaps your god stored such data locally, in the probe, for more
Jd> efficient networking and faster access. tm
Why bother? Even if He was bound by such constraints, putting it somewhere
else closer to Pluto would be even more efficient.
AS> Jesus is like a seperated probe
AS> seperated from the mother ship, who will download what is
AS> experienced back into the main database.
Jd> See Al, - you get the idea.
I wish I could say the same for you.
... Grace and peace to you from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Al knows what god experiences!
|Date: 03 Feb 97 09:42:45
EID:2ae9 22434d40
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f6c6fe
AS> Because He can taste anything BUT finiteness that way. The way we
AS> do NOT know everything all at once, and the frustration we have.
AS> Oh, He can read OUR frustrations at such, but it's not the same
AS> thing.
Jd> ROTFLMAO!!
Jd> So Al Schroeder KNOWS what god experiences! AND, Al Schroeder puts
Jd> LIMITS on what god can do!!
Logical ones? Certainly. I don't think God can make valleys without
mountains,either. Certainly the above is just an extrapolation.
Jd> The ALL-POWERFUL, ALL-KNOWING, omnipotent, omnicscient, omnivorous
Jd> god!
Does He subscribe to Omni? Jan, the idea that God can do everything but
the logically impossible is an old Christian position, as old as Aquinas
at least.
Jd> Strange, Al, that if you know god so well, you can only describe him
Jd>