God Damned Fundies!
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Look what I found!
|Date: 29 Jan 97 00:30:20
EID:3fc2 223d03c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ee299c
* On 04-01-97 at 08:26, AL SCHROEDER wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Look what I found! " in echo Holysmoke:
AS> RS> That's http://www.theonion.com/
AS> RS> Where you can find the best in satire every week. Like why the
AS> RS> Fearful Parents Association want to make the world kiddie-safe.
AS> RS> Or read about the Amish -- "Fuck this dark-ages shit", says one
of
AS> RS> their leaders!
AS> RS> It's all at The Onion :) http://www.theonion.com/
AS> I especially liked the one which had "AMISH GIVE IT ALL UP! buy computers,
AS> convertibles, etc." And one Amish Elder going, "I wish someone had
told us
AS> how stupid we look in these black suits and strange beards without
AS> mustaches a long time ago..." I've laughed at the Onion often.
AS> Do you, by any chance, contribute?
I don't admit to it, no.
Rod "...I'm being evasive" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Diplomacy: The patriotic art of lying for one's country
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Masturbation
|Date: 29 Jan 97 00:31:22
EID:1ca9 223d03e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ee29da
* On 04-01-97 at 08:28, AL SCHROEDER wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Masturbation" in echo Holysmoke:
AS> AS> The only thing wrong with masturbation is loneliness. And the
Bible
AS> AS> doesn't say a thing about it.
AS> RS> You've never tried it in a group? :) I thought that's what the
AS> RS> death cult was all about! :)
AS> No, that's the Republican Party. Some of my right wing Christian
AS> "brethren" tried a takeover of that, but they didn't quite succeed....
You have not read the platform of the Republican Party, say, in
Texas?
Rod "...it's nice to know they support genocide of a certain
minority" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Any closet is a walk-in closet if you try hard enough
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: the other shoe
|Date: 29 Jan 97 00:37:24
EID:188d 223d04a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ee2b44
* On 04-01-97 at 08:54, AL SCHROEDER wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "the other shoe" in echo Holysmoke:
AS> Ron.
AS> Do you ONLY have access to things from four to five months ago??
It's not my fault if your news feed is faulty :) *smirk*
AS> Mike no longer backs that position, but is questioning it. So why dredge
AS> up things and castigate HIM for a position he no longer holds??
At the time, he did hold them :) I had not got to a point of
reading the echo where he did not hold those views.
Find another strawman, Al, this one won't work.
AS> It's a legitimate question to ME, but you weren't asking me, you
were
AS> blaming MIKE...
Well, why don't you answer the question of the apparent lack of
you God?
AS> Why bring up things from months ago, unless you're only out to
AS> stir...up...trouble...
No. I have been absent from the echo for about 3 months from
August to November due to personal reasons. I'd like to share them,
but I don't trust you...
...you'd probably want to breach my privacy and tell my family.
AS> Oh. Just answered my own question, didn't I?
You should ask less rhetorical questions, saves you from getting
answers that are rhetoric and bear no semblance to the truth.
Oh, that's right, you're Christian. You peddle in self-delusion,
right? :) :)
AS> Hmmmm. If you DID believe in a God, I bet it would be Loki...shall
we
AS> dub you the "Merry Prankster" of the echo?
For one who professes to hold a moral highground that causes you
to be condemnatory of someone naturally progressing through older
packets in chronological order and making posts therefrom that
may be in reply to *positions that no longer apply* of certain
people -- you sure are quick to make judgements of the positions
of others that have *never* applied to people :)
Rod "...or did your clear mischaracterisation not fall in the
pot-kettle-black department? Which fallacial argument *does* it
fall into Al?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * That was Zen... This is Tao!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Re: AIDS
|Date: 29 Jan 97 00:38:26
EID:701b 223d04c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ee2b82
* On 05-01-97 at 14:06, MARTIN GOLDBERG wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Re: AIDS" in echo Holysmoke:
MG> MM>>That's what I am going to do. We're looking to do it in
MG> MM>>October in Austin, Texas.
MG> RS> I cannot believe that Michael Martinez is willing to follow his
MG> RS> iconic hero Peter Duesberg who also has claimed to have injected
MG> RS> himself with HIV+ blood.
MG> He will not do it. His pal hasn't and he won't.
:( What a shame. Good riddance to two pieces of human garbage
if they ever actually (and verifiably) did :)
MG> RS> Will Martinez come back here and say he was wrong when he
MG> RS> develops symptoms?
MG> No. This was declared off topic by the moderator and then
MG> he was banned when he failed to comply.
What a shame. Makes me wish I was a fly on the wall. Hey, maybe
the next time I'm in Austin, I can visit Terry :) :)
Rod "...hmmm..." Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Do not adjust your mind, the fault is with reality.
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Satan
|Sub:
|Date: 29 Jan 97 10:14:28
EID:a8cb 223d51c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eeb284
* On 04-01-97 at 12:00, SATAN wrote to ARTHUR BARNES,
on the topic of "" in echo Holysmoke:
SA> AB> You know, Christians really get to me sometimes. This
SA> AB> morning, some preacher guy was on and he decided that
SA> AB> Christians needed to relook at what holiness means. He was
SA> AB> way off... I forgot where the word came from, but it
SA> AB> originally meant (well Holy did anyway) "other". It had
SA> AB> nothing to do with morals and how good someone was. I laughed
SA> AB> the whole time he talked!
SA> Christians are one of our greatest sources of comedy ;-)
Yes. Like how the anti-contraceptive Pope-baby likes wearing the
equivalent of an ecumenical diaphragm on his head -- to stop
thoughts getting in and fertilising ideas in his brain :) :)
Rod "...yarmukle it ain't!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Save the whales. Collect the whole set!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ric Carter
|Sub: Islam Unbound & Uncovere
|Date: 29 Jan 97 10:24:30
EID:d20d 223d5300
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eeb4de
* On 06-01-97 at 02:33, RIC CARTER wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Islam Unbound & Uncovered" in echo Holysmoke:
RC> From: elazar
Ric, I cannot believe that you are posting material from famous
Jewish holocaust revisionist Kevin E Abrams (author of "The Pink
Swastika")...
Rod "...he's an intellectually-bankrupt individual nearly akin to
Martinez or Liberty-Parker" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * God is a Vorlon
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Kelsey Bjarnason
|Sub: "Atheists who do no good
|Date: 29 Jan 97 10:30:32
EID:60bf 223d53c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eeb648
* On 02-01-97 at 02:45, KELSEY BJARNASON wrote to LEE WOOFENDEN,
on the topic of ""Atheists who do no good"" in echo Holysmoke:
KB> Perhaps because, in the case of Christianity... the adherents seem
to
KB> ignore the best parts and concentrate on who they can hurt and
KB> discriminate against, and other such loving pursuits?
KB> Disagree? Okay, fine. Show me a Christian who has absolutely no
KB> qualms with gays, abortions, assisted suicides, sex outside of
KB> marriage, and the host of other "sins" they're so often telling
KB> us of.
The Ewe-ewes, but they are considered "false Christer scum" by
most Christians :)
Rod "... Unitarian Universalists are so touchy-feely :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Today's topic: Name alternatives to eternal nothingness
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Ask And Ye Shall Receive
|Date: 29 Jan 97 10:46:34
EID:f259 223d55c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eeba0a
* On 05-01-97 at 15:10, STEVE QUARRELLA wrote to SUE ARMSTRONG,
on the topic of "Ask And Ye Shall Receive" in echo Holysmoke:
SQ> Veneris dies January 03 1997, Dixit Sue Armstrong ad Fredric Rice:
SQ> SA> Now, normally Immigration doesn't have much to do with incoming
SQ> SA> American holiday-goers, but if a Customs officer is stumped after
SQ> SA> questioning, visitors will be directed over to the Immigration
SQ> SA> building.
SQ> My mother got the third-degree this December from a grouchy
customs
SQ> official who couldn't understand why she was driving all
SQ> the way from the Detroit suburbs to get me a CD that could
SQ> "easily be obtained" (which is untrue) in the US.
The Detroit-area border checkpoints are notoriously bad for
grilling all border crossers -- INCLUDING US citizens into the US
:)
Rod "...go fig, eh?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * 1-900-666-0666: Live beasts, one-on-one-pacts, call now!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 29 Jan 97 10:55:36
EID:bd82 223d56e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eebc28
* On 05-01-97 at 10:03, J.J. HITT wrote to KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT,
on the topic of "MY SUMMER WEEKEND" in echo Holysmoke:
JH> On Dec 26 18:06 96, Katherine Wintersnight of 1:381/123@fidonet.org
wrote:
JH> KW> Many pagans have chosen to comply with the local laws
JH> KW> in so far as a civil marriage to get the legal status,
JH> KW> then taken care of the religious end in at another
JH> KW> ritual if they don't have access to someone who is able
JH> KW> to sign the legal paperwork at a handfasting.
JH> I've signed a marriage licence as the "official" before.
JH> But it was at a mexican restaurant.
Let me guess.... A Pancho's Mexican Buffet? :) Taco Bell?
JH> The qualifications (as printed on the back of the licence) are
JH> broad enough that ULC membership qualifies.
Universal Life Church is fun, isn't it?
Rod "...praise the ULC, and pass the popehood" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't just stand there!!! Kneel!!!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 29 Jan 97 11:37:38
EID:0844 223d5ca0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eec602
* On 06-01-97 at 21:15, JONATHAN FINGAS wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Hypocritical people" in echo Holysmoke:
JF> Since I'm kind of new to this debate, let me introduce myself...
JF> I'm a proud (relatively speaking) Lutheran who goes to
JF> church every Sunday (not always voluntarily, but still).
JF> Anyhow, the brunt of my message...
JF> Something that disturbs me are the people who stand outside the courtroom
JF> at OJ's civil trial or abortion clinics. These people
JF> claim to be tolerant, loving Christians, but cry
JF> "murderer!" and would gladly kill the target of their
JF> wrath. Can't these people see what they're doing? Can't
JF> anyone?
What are the *real* Christians doing to stop the wave of hatred
that is spreading across the US by such wonderful oracles
speaking in the "name of Jesus" like Pat Robertson, Ralph Reed,
Gary Bauer, Lou Sheldon, Jerry Falwell, etc.
What are good Christians doing about the abuse of human rights by
religious fringegroups. Will the "good Christians" one day
realise that after all the religious right-wing targets have been
eliminated -- but their "family values" not restored -- they will
only have one target left... other Christians?
Rod "...speak out before it's too late Jonathan" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Rap is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: Science or evolution?
|Date: 29 Jan 97 11:58:40
EID:01d6 223d5f40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eecaf0
* On 04-01-97 at 11:14, JOHN MUSSELWHITE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Science or evolution?" in echo Holysmoke:
JM> My Beer Bible reviews Canadian Foster's (brewed in Toronto)
JM> like this:
JM> "Foster's Lager: Expectedly fresh and crisp on contact; full
JM> palate and smoothness around the sides of the mouth; generally
JM> even-tempered and predictable throughout; head is very white
JM> with clearly distinguishable bubbles; nicely patterned Brussels
JM> lace adds to the soft feel; is quite pleasing, flavorful lager
JM> with backbone; Australian version is essentially identical,
JM> except for definitely lighter carbonation. (rated 3.4 out of
JM> 5)" (from The Beer Lover's Rating Guide - Bob Klein)
Ah, what would this buffoon know :)
JM> RS> well-behaved boys, I may send each of you a bottle of Redback
JM> RS> when I get back to the US next.
JM> Continuing from the same guide:
JM> "Red Back Malted Wheat Beer (Fremantle, Western Australia):
JM> Baked-bread aroma on first sniff - enough yeast to make it
JM> almost taste warm and just out of the oven - but the enjoyment
JM> stops there; tangy citrus accent; highly malty so there's
JM> little hop bitterness to deal with the yeast; flavour and
JM> ambience are too unfocused; soft texture, almost mushy. (rated
JM> 2.2)"
Yep, this Klein is obviously an amateur :) :) *wink*
You really should try Red Back though :)
Rod "...I am pulling your chain, you realise :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Today's topic: Name alternatives to eternal nothingness
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Patrick Humphrey
|Sub: I'm BAAAAAAACK!
|Date: 29 Jan 97 12:09:42
EID:ad94 223d6120
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eecd86
* On 08-01-97 at 18:27, PATRICK HUMPHREY wrote to PAUL BOYER,
on the topic of "I'm BAAAAAAACK! " in echo Holysmoke:
PH> PB> Hiya, Styx.
PH> PB> (Hi, everyone!)
PH> PB> Just thought I'd let you know that I'm back after a nearly-three-year
PH> PB> hiatus.
PH> PB>
PH> Damn. I log in here for the first time in three weeks and this happens.
PH> (At least it's you showing back up, though -- it could have been a lot
PH> worse. It could have been RevRon. :-)
Yes, couldn't it :)
PH> --PLH, wondering if Joanna Amren was that young lady behind us screaming
PH> "HOUSTON SUCKS!" while the Aeros were stomping the SA Dragons at Freeman
PH> Coliseum on December 14...
No. I was possessing her :) :) :) :) :) You know about me and
Aeros games :) :) :) :) :) :)
Rod "...this message has been smiley-captioned for the humour
impaired" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Hey fundie! Why can't your mind be as open as your mouth?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Reading Incomprehension
|Date: 29 Jan 97 12:33:44
EID:0dfd 223d6420
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eed328
* On 07-01-97 at 12:52, JUDITH BANDSMA wrote to KELSEY BJARNASON,
on the topic of "Reading Incomprehension" in echo Holysmoke:
JB> -=> Kelsey Bjarnason spoke thusly to Nate Cookson <=-
JB> KB> Why? Just because something is old doesn't mean it is worthy
JB> KB> of respect.
JB> Strom Thurmond being a wonderful example.
Robert C Byrd and Jesse Helms being other examples :)
Ronald Reagan too, I suppose.
Rod "...in fact, they are suffering from advanced stupidity --
all of them" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The best prophet of the future is the past
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be sa
|Date: 29 Jan 97 12:36:46
EID:1579 223d6480
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eed3de
* On 07-01-97 at 20:43, MARTIN GOLDBERG wrote to GWENNY THE POOH,
on the topic of "Why do you NEED to be sav" in echo Holysmoke:
MG> GtP> It also tells us to kill unmarried pregnant women. Oh, wait they
MG> GtP> try to do that at the clinics, don't they.
MG> The married ones too....whether they are there for an abortion or not.
MG> I just wish Johnny Salvi had strung himself up before
MG> giving the clinics that Post Office Treatment.
Amen!
Rod "...can't say any more but that he was an abortion poster
child" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Borg Express -- don't be assimilated without it!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Kenneth Mcabee
|Date: 29 Jan 97 12:44:48
EID:e17d 223d6580
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eed5c0
* On 08-01-97 at 13:59, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Kenneth Mcabee" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> KM> NO, sorry, bzzzztt! I will not be judged and sent to heaven.
FR> rs> So you ARE going to hell?
FR> He will be going to prison:
FR> And again David if God asked me to kill my son, I would see
FR> it as a sacrifice. Whether that is what is meant by you in
FR> the question or not. I would see it as such. - Kenneth Mcabee
Praise Stargoat for that enlightening quotative blast-from-the-past,
Brother Fredric :)
Maybe he'll meet a nice guy there and play wife to him :)
Rod "...what an attractive notion :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * I wanted to be born again but my mother said: "No!"
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Holysmoke.
|Date: 29 Jan 97 12:46:50
EID:2618 223d65c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eed63a
* On 08-01-97 at 14:05, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Holysmoke." in echo Holysmoke:
[...about Luiz Constantino]
FR> LC> Ok people, you can stop replying to my mail. I'm going
back
FR> LC> to university. If you still have any beef you can e-mail me at
FR> LC> lconstan@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca.
FR> "Bravely ran away away..."
Didn't he just :)
FR> LC> Nice chatting with you all, nice discovering this little
FR> LC> secluded escape from reality.
FR> "Help help! The light's too bright in here!"
That's what happens to Christians who come here with their chest
bravely raised in pride. It attracts swords :)
FR> rs> Can I *please* turn this guy into
FR> rs> a hand-puppet next summer? Pleaaase???
FR> He's already got a wind-up key sticking out of his back.
You should ponder where I was going to stick my hand before you
advocate the wind-up key approach...
Rod "...I want to give the kids of Christians a fist-f*ck-me-Elmo
doll, just for fun" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Commit the oldest sins the newest kind of ways
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 29 Jan 97 12:46:52
EID:bef4 223d65c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eed63c
* On 08-01-97 at 14:09, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> DW>> You frequented a whorehouse, Jimbob?
FR> JS> No.
FR> DW> A crackhouse?
FR> rs> A bath-house? :P
FR> Most likely the drunk tank.
Or the psych ward :)
Rod "...he's really quite a loon, Fredric" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Do not adjust your mind, the fault is with reality.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 29 Jan 97 12:48:54
EID:ed89 223d6600
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eed6b6
* On 03-01-97 at 14:48, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> Thank you. Basically, it consists of visiting a discusting place
JS> JS> (the police station), getting a form, researching the court dockets
JS> JS> of 1978
JS> KS> Ah. The police station is a disgusting place.
JS> KS> But you hang out in biker bars.
JS> KS> Figures.
JS> JS> Well, the biker bar has nice, helpful people in it, who, if you
needed
JS> JS> them, would protect and serve.
JS> RS> Do they send you flowers on the anniversary?
JS> The police? The bikers? Who?
The bikers of course, Jim? Aren't you one of their little
bitchling wives? :)
JS> And the anniversary of what? My visit to the bar?
Exactly. Your first "roll in the hay" dear boy! :)
JS> ... Put on the whole armour of God... - Ephesians 6:11
Too bad there are major links missing in the chain mail --
you'd have more protection wearing a coke-bottle cap :)
Rod "...praise Jesus, and pass the, uh, evidence :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Death: to stop sinning suddenly
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Educational Experience
|Date: 29 Jan 97 12:51:56
EID:33f6 223d6660
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eed76c
* On 03-01-97 at 14:48, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Educational Experience" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> But slandering an entire group of human beings just because of their
JS> JS> ideology or beliefs is OK, isn't it Ceppa...
JS> RS> You make the assumption that Christians are deserving of being
JS> RS> recognised as human.
JS> RS> How silly of you, Jim.
JS> I see. If not, then what?
I believe that the quotation is from one of the US's greatest
men:
Those who deny the rights of others deserve them not for
themselves.
I'm sure you can correct the quotation. I don't have a relevant
quotation guide to check the exact wording of, Jefferson's (I
believe) quote.
JS> Why are you so bigoted against one segment of society, Rod?
No, not a segment of society. Only certain Christians. The ones
who would deprive me of life, liberty, property, freedom, or rights.
Those people deserve a similar and equally damning opposition to
their agenda of hatred.
You are a person that holds such an agenda of hatred, Jim.
...you really should give up your Jesus-inspired hatred
Rod "...I also note my best friend is Christian" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * ...Pro-life? Then GET ONE and STAY THE FUCK OUT OF MINE!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: the promise keepers
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:02:58
EID:7339 223d6840
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eeda02
* On 03-01-97 at 14:50, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "the promise keepers" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> On (29 Dec 96) Rod Swift wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> JS> I don't see that at all. Having attended two promise keeper programs,
it
JS> JS> is obvious to me the motive is to build up the family and the nation.
JS> RS> Ah, bull crap, Jim. It's in it for the money. Tens of thousands
JS> RS> of people paying at least $50 is MILLIONS of dollars of income.
JS> RS> And the cost of the events are really small in comparison to the
JS> RS> income generated.
JS> Evidence of this alleged 'profit'?
The dozens of critical reports into the financing of such scams
as the Promisekeepers. Stadiums don't cost millions of dollars
to hire for a day. Probably, conservatively, maybe $50,000.
Care to give your local stadium a call and ask how much they
charged the Promisefilth last time they were there?
Yet they rake in 75,000 participants, at $50 each -- about $3.75
million. Plus, of course, the overpriced and heavily marketed
Promisefilth merchandise.
So, let's say that a stadium was $750,000 to hire for a day
(that's about 15 times my conservative estimate), I'd like to
know where the other $3million goes to.
They hold about 12 of these events a year, and are trying to hold
more. They are raking in upwards of $40-50 million a year before
paying for the miniscule costs of stadium charges.
JS> JS> rs> how can you ignore [and take part in] such a scam?
JS> JS> I do not see the enrichment of the human soul to be a scam.
JS> RS> We were discussing the part about ripping people off blindly for
JS> RS> such "enrichment", Jim. What's your take on that?
JS> Where does the 'ripping people off blindly' part come in? People who
go
JS> into and 'enrichment seminar', knowing in advance who is going to be
JS> the speakers, musical ministers and entertainment, and the cost are
not
JS> getting ripped off, blindly or sightedly. What's your beef?
The fact that enrichment seminars may include a catered meal, and
expensive speakers. Oh, and the fact they are organised by
companies that obviously have a for-profit nature.
I thought the Promisefilth were a non-profit Christian group?
My point, however, still stands. If these people are concerned
about the salvation of men, they'd be doing it at break-even
costs, not at hugely profitable costs.
JS> RS> If these people were doing it out of the goodness of their heart,
JS> RS> they'd not be making tens of millions of dollars of profit a year
JS> Evidence of this alleged 'profit'?
Has been provided. Can you please provide the justification for
such profit-taking in an organisation which claims its focus is
to save people?
JS> RS> -- but would be offering ministry on a cost-recovery-basis only...
JS> Plus administration: (1 Cor 9:14 NIV) In the same way, the Lord has
JS> commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living
JS> from the gospel.
Given the highly inflated estimate I gave of $750,000 being used
out of the generated $3.75 million per event (based on 75,000
people at $50 ticket), their expenses would be about 22%.
Why would an organisation need 78% for administration?
And they should receive their *living* from the gospel. I'm sure
that's a basic provision (food, water, shelter, basic ministry
administration and employees), not lavish homes, holidays,
travel, women, and cars :)
JS> RS> ... or even for free!
JS> Mine was free. A kind brother covered the cost as well as lodging.
But someone paid. If the Promisekeepers are so *honest*, they'd
be fair, and just, and make the cost of attending such
conferences be based SOLELY upon cost-recovery for the operation
of the conference.
Not with the 78% profit-taking by the religious scammers running
the show.
JS> RS> Rod "and besides, the promisefilth are hateful bigots anyway!"
Swift
JS> RS> :)
JS> I don't know about this 'promise filth', but Rod Swift sure is, as
JS> evidence by his previous post.
Do you know how much money from the Promisekeepers was rerouted
into supporting the push for Colorado Amendment 2?
Rod "...maybe you should search for an answer, and see how evil
the people you so dearly love really are..." Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * ...Pro-life? Then GET ONE and STAY THE FUCK OUT OF MINE!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Crash goes your bullshit
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:11:00
EID:10f1 223d6960
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eedbe4
* On 03-01-97 at 14:59, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Crash goes your bullshit" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RC> The order to kill and destroy innocent lives at Waco came from David
JS> RC> Koresh. The head-shots, the fires, were perpetrated by his followers
JS> RC> upon their fellows [and children]. You are disconnected from reality.
JS> RS> Thank you, o thank you, for pointing this out to Jim.
JS> Ric has absolutely no evidence to confirm his claim, whereas Janet Reno
JS> has already admitted that the buck stopped at her desk concerning the
JS> order that resulted in the deaths of the victims at Waco.
I never knew Janet Reno could give orders to David Koresh to kill
his "minions". You're a deluded fool, Jimbozo.
JS> RS> He'll now claim that Janet Reno made and supplied the bullets and
JS> RS> guns to his followers, and she really went in after him when he
JS> RS> refused to pay up for the guns -- or something as equally lunatic.
JS> No.
Why not Jimbozo? Your conspiracy theory will sound so much
*more* believable if you do! *guffaw*
Rod "...I wish you were at Mt Carmel, Jim, and had your head
blown away by your bretheren. I mean that sincerely." Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Mud thrown is ground lost
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Educational Experienc
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:12:02
EID:f601 223d6980
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eedc22
* On 03-01-97 at 15:01, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Educational Experienc" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> KS> Leather and Lace, eh? I would bet my eye teeth that's a gay biker
JS> KS> bar.
JS> RS> It's probably the Blue Oyster. "Proctooooooooooor!" :)
JS> No, actually, the bar in Ludington was Arthur's and Leather and Lace
is
JS> anything but a gay biker bar. It is a rough and ready biker bar that
JS> caters to the country music crowd (biker-wise).
And probably that rough-n-ready sex you like, being a biker's
little bitch :)
JS> KS> Might be fun.
JS> RS> Very!
JS> Well, pop your gay little *ss in there, announce your preference and
see
JS> what happens. :)
I'll be able to have you as my own little "bitch" to lerv?
Rod "...bend over, Staaalin" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The foolish and dead alone never change their opinion
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:16:04
EID:991d 223d6a00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eedd14
* On 04-01-97 at 12:30, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> GM> IMPOSSIBLE TO CHANGE?
GM> RS>Yep, there's a word for that. Immutability.
GM> You seem to have not noticed the question mark. But that's how you
GM> folks twist things isn't it?
You can't spell "rhetorical question"?
GM> GM> Liars have wept in my presence, saying they can't stop lying.
GM> GM> Alcohol abusers say they aren't to blame for their addiction.
A
GM> GM> spokesman says that telling a homosexual to repent is "like
GM> GM> telling a person to change the color of his skin."
GM> RS>That's right. You can't change something that's immutable and
GM> RS>innate.
GM> But, it's not immutable - again remember the question mark?
How does a question mark bolster your mere *statement* that
sexuality is *not innate*? But since you seek the truth:
From: "Psychology and You: Answers to Your Questions About
Sexual Orientation and Homosexuality"
By: The American Psychological Association
Q: Is sexual orientation a choice?
A: No. Sexual orientation emerges for most people in early
adolescence without any prior sexual experience. And some
people report trying very hard over many years to change
their sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual with
no success. For these reasons, psychologists do not consider
sexual orientation to be a conscious choice that can be
voluntarily changed.
Q: Is homosexuality a mental illness or emotional problem?
A: No. Psychologists, psychiatrists and other mental health
professionals agree that homosexuality is not an illness,
mental disorder or emotional problem. Much objective
scientific research over the past 35 years shows us that
homosexual orientation, in and of itself, is not associated
with emotional or social problems.
Homosexuality was thought to be a mental illness in the past
because mental health professionals and society had biased
information about homosexuality since most studies only
involved lesbians and gay men in therapy. When researchers
examined data about gay people who were not in therapy, the
idea that homosexuality was a mental illness was found to be
untrue.
In 1973 the American Psychiatric Association confirmed the
importance of the new research by removing the term
"homosexuality" from the official manual that lists all
mental and emotional disorders. In 1975 the American
Psychological Association passed a resolution supporting
this action. Both associations urge all mental health
professionals to help dispel the stigma of mental illness
that some people still associate with homosexual orientation.
Since the original declassification of homosexuality as a
mental disorder, this decision has subsequently been
reaffirmed by additional research findings and both
associations.
Q: Can therapy change sexual orientation?
A: No. Even though homosexual orientation is not a mental
illness and there is no scientific reason to attempt
conversion of lesbians or gays to heterosexual orientation,
some individuals may seek to change their own sexual
orientation or that of another individual (for example,
parents seeking therapy for their child). Some therapists
who undertake this kind of therapy report that they have
changed their clients' sexual orientation (from homosexual to
heterosexual) in treatment. Close scrutiny of their reports
indicates several factors that cast doubt: many of the claims
come from organisations with an ideological perspective on
sexual orientation, rather than from mental health
researchers; the treatments and their outcomes are poorly
documented; and the length of time that clients are followed
up after the treatment is too short.
In 1990 the American Psychological Association stated that
scientific evidence does not show that conversion therapy
works and that it can do more harm than good. Changing one's
sexual orientation is not simply a matter of changing one's
sexual behaviour. It would require altering one's emotional,
romantic and sexual feelings and restructuring one's
self-concept and social identity. Although some mental health
providers do attempt sexual orientation conversion, others
question the ethics of trying to alter through therapy a trait
that is not a disorder and that is extremely important to an
individual's identity.
Not all gays and lesbians who seek therapy want to change
their sexual orientation. Gays and lesbians may seek
counselling for any of the same reasons as anyone else. In
addition, they may seek psychological help to "come out" or
to deal with prejudice, discrimination and violence.
GM> GM> TO BREAK SIN'S GRIP,
GM> GM> PUT YOURSELF IN GOD'S HANDS.
GM> RS>Why not read facts, and realise that sin is stupid?
GM> That's my question to you- why not read the facts and see that sin is
GM> stupid? I'm sure you don't want to act stupid on purpose.
I don't have sin, George.
Why don't you stop and realise that the concept of sin is stupid?
Rod "...so much for you claiming that I bastardised your
question... you then bastardised mine :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Why fantasize when there are hamsters and duct tape?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:22:06
EID:991d 223d6ac0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eede7e
* On 04-01-97 at 12:33, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> GM> THE ONLY WAY TO BE RIGHT
GM> GM> IS TO AGREE WITH GOD WHEN HE SAYS WE'RE WRONG.
GM> RS>Isn't that mental enslavery, Moothy?
GM> We are all in mental salavery.
No we are not. But it's nice to know that you now admit that
being a Jeezoid is mental slavery. Further, that slavery
eliminates free-will.
GM> You just have to choose who you want to be the slave of.
You want to be my slave? Oh, how thoughtful :)
GM> You choose Satan
Evidence of this choice? Is your explanation going to be as
evidentiary of your claim that sexuality is a choice?
Is your evidence: "Because George Mooth say so..."?
GM> ... and all the sick immoral posts you put in here.
Sick and immoral? I never knew my standard was slipping from
mind-altering blasphemy... :)
Then again, I know they are affecting you. You responded. It
proves that I am indeed removing your shackles of slavery.
GM> Satan uses you every day in this conference.
Yeah, right, whatever Mr "Satan uses you, Rod, because your posts
threaten my feeble religion" Mooth.
GM> Talk about mental slavery - He's got you!
No no no. I've got you! :) :)
I've got you right where I want you. You actually believe that
Satan is controlling me. This proves the heightened stupidity of
Christianity.
We'll get you, George, and make you understand the truth...
Rod "...because I've got control of everything I do. Doesn't it
scare you that mere mortals can affect your religion -- not just
your mythical construct Satan?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Hey, Rocky, watch me pull a saviour out of this virgin!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:24:08
EID:991d 223d6b00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eedef8
* On 04-01-97 at 12:34, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> GM> AS THE TWIG IS BENT, SO GROWS THE TREE.
GM> RS>I'm bent, and my "tree" grows when I see your cute ass, Mooth! :)
:)
GM> There you go again - being a mental slave to Satan. When will you
GM> choose to be free and not a slave?
You've failed to prove the first part of your statement -- that
is, my mental pact with the Christian nemesis. When will you
choose to provide concrete evidence thereof, rather than hide
behind your whining that "Satan controls Rod".
You're just scared that I am free, and still destructive of your
religion.
Admit it, George, your memes for being buttfucked are being
aroused again, which is why you dream for Satan to plug you good!
Rod "... I love you, George" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Yahweh (n): not *my* way
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Ejaculation
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:26:10
EID:6370 223d6b40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eedf72
* On 04-01-97 at 12:35, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Our Daily Ejaculation" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> GM> WE ARE SAVED NOT BY WHAT WE DO
GM> GM> BUT BY WHAT CHRIST HAS DONE.
GM> RS>So you're saying Jerkers For Jesus should disband?
GM> You seem to have a fixation on masterbation.
No. I'm fixated on your butt. It's all those pheromones you're
giving off because you're really gay, and just suppressing
yourself :)
And why not make up stories about you, eh? You make up stories
about me and your good widdle imaginary superenemy Satan :)
GM> But then I don't suppose many women want to get to close to you, eh?
There you go again with that Christian idea that multiple sex
partners of the female kind is a good thing...
You hetero Christians are sick. Try monogamy, loser :)
Rod "...I'm happily married to my husbear, who says that he'd
like to see you on a stick like your saviour, Mooth" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Diplomacy: Saying "nice doggy" until you can find a rock
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ask And Ye Shall Receive
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:27:12
EID:c4b5 223d6b60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eedfb0
* On 10-01-97 at 17:21, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ask And Ye Shall Receive" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> He does have his plan. God is a god of order.
JS> RS> Would he like super-sized fries with that order?
JS> (Jim Staal at the take-out order thingey) 'Did I _say_ I wanted fries
JS> with that!?'
I just love it when you show your feminine machismo, Jim :)
Rod "...praise Jesus, and pass the lesbian terrorist's handbook" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The foolish and dead alone never change their opinion
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Claim Him, He'S Yours
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:28:14
EID:564e 223d6b80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eedfee
* On 10-01-97 at 17:22, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Claim Him, He'S Yours" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> ML> Aye, laddie. But now's a great time; what with a free
market
JS> JS> ML> economy, booming reconstruction of infrastructure and
yet
JS> JS> ML> another place on earth that knows what a xenophobic Xtian
boob
JS> JS> ML> exists as one MISTER Staal.
JS> JS> Nah...just another commie hell-hole.
JS> RS> COMMIE HELL-HOLE (n): Anywhere not like Jim Staal's warped view
JS> RS> of his own neighbourhood.
JS> Tsk.
You didn't answer the allegation, so we will assume that it is
true until you say otherwise.
Rod "...do you deny that everywhere else is a commie-hell-hole if
it's not like your own home town, Jimby?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * I ain't broke, but I'm badly bent
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: word replace
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:29:16
EID:60dd 223d6ba0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee02c
* On 10-01-97 at 17:22, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "word replace" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> SM> Kindly please show us a reliable way for non-
JS> JS> SM> believers to contact this
JS> JS> SM> "Holy Spirit".
JS> JS> There is no way for non-believers to 'contact' God in any way:
JS> RS> Who'd've thought God used Southwestern Bell! :)
JS> Bzzzt! Inappropriate answer. The correct answer is:
JS> (Heb 11:6 NIV) And without faith it is impossible to please God,
JS> because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that
he
JS> rewards those who earnestly seek him.
How convenient. A God that hides from a potential audience of
billions, because he just "wants to". How ironic that God is
only seen in the delusionally-warped minds of village idiots like
you, Jim :)
Rod "...only the deluded see Jesus (HEB 11:6)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Velcronomicon: A magick book that sticks with you
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ask And Ye Shan'T Receiv
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:31:18
EID:bd99 223d6be0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee0a6
* On 10-01-97 at 17:26, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ask And Ye Shan'T Receiv" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> DR> Did you take "Arrogant insufferal fool" pills this morning?
JS> JS> No prob: there is no life on other planets. If there were, the Bible
JS> JS> would have mentioned it.
JS> RS> Computers don't exist. If they did, the bible would have
JS> RS> mentioned them.
JS> Non applicable. We are talking about apples and oranges here. Computers
JS> are a man-made item. Life on other planets would have been an item made
JS> by the Creator.
Nebulae do not exist. If they did, they would have been
mentioned in the bible.
Then again, the Earth is not round. If it was, it'd have been
mentioned in the bible (instead of being mentioned as flat, with
four corners, and winds that come from those corners)
If the universe, galaxies, stars, and cosmological features
existed, they'd be in the bible, rather than "holes in
firmament".
Rod "...you're a moron, Jim" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Bigots: those who confuse personal tastes with morality
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Legislating Morality
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:33:20
EID:9f41 223d6c20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee120
* On 10-01-97 at 20:36, DAVE HAMILTON wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Legislating Morality" in echo Holysmoke:
DH> RS> On 10-10-96 at 22:11, DAVE HAMILTON wrote to KEN WIENS:
DH> ^^^^^^^^
DH> Geez - I know there's a time difference, but 3 months?
Yep. I took leave from *replying* to posts for a few months, but
I didn't want to miss any of the buttslammin' action with
Jimbozo, so I kept downloading packets ;)
DH> DH>> Do you ever go outside your house other than to go to church?
DH> RS> He probably goes outside from time to time to get the mail...
DH> RS> possibly.
DH> Or he answers the door when the little ICR truck brings
DH> him his food and books. I miss Ken, he was a lot of fun.
He was. And you know, if we mention his name often enough, and
deride him, he'll probably come back.
You see, he's probably still reading... :) :)
Rod "...they can't resist the 'Smoke, once they've been flamed
once for their precious deity construct" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Rap is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Domino
|Sub: Black lipstick
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:41:24
EID:0c41 223d6d20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee304
* On 09-01-97 at 17:43, DOMINO wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "Black lipstick" in echo Holysmoke:
DO> I wear my black outfit once in a while, and I'll even paint my
DO> nails black once in a while. It has yet to cause a major
DO> "disturbance". Of course, there was the odd redneck or two that
DO> made comments about my sexuality, but that can hardly be called
DO> disruptive, as it doesnt affect the operation of the school or
DO> its students.
BTW, for your reference, if you do suffer discrimination or
violence at the hands of your fellow students due to your sexual
orientation, you do have the right to have it stopped. There is
now court precendence that states that school systems *must*
protect students from sexual-orientation-harrassment and violence.
DO> And yeah, the public education system is a huge mess. I'm
DO> rather ashamed to say I'm from a country that thinks
DO> they've got it good.
Yeah, well, blame the Christers for destroying public
education... and their Republican't colleagues :)
Rod "...blame Jesus, and pass the condemnation" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Smoke me a kipper skipper, I'll be back for breakfast
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Domino
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:42:26
EID:3d73 223d6d40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee342
* On 10-01-97 at 18:02, DOMINO wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "Oops, Caught Again" in echo Holysmoke:
DO> Jim, having seen Dan during his little streak, remarked:
DO> JS> What evidence do you have to make such an accusation?
DO> What evidence do you have to say that Jesus was male and the Bible is
DO> an accurate reference for anything besides the beleifs and practices
DO> of Christianity?
Domino... Let's make a pact to destroy Staalin here :) :) I'm
sure that having two "sexually-challenged" individuals chasing
after him would be a riotous laugh :)
Rod "...gays Jeezus, and pass the lubricant" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Commit the oldest sins the newest kind of ways
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: reinfestation
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:43:28
EID:1d65 223d6d60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee380
* On 09-01-97 at 22:51, ED MILLS wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "reinfestation" in echo Holysmoke:
EM> The fungus has returned.
EM> Hide your sheep.
EM> Did I miss any good ass-beatings while I was down?
Mooth talked :)
Rod "...praise Jesus, and spank George Mooth" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Famous graffitti: Please don't write on the -- oops!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:45:30
EID:991d 223d6da0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee3fa
* On 29-12-96 at 12:38, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> PREPARE TO CELEBRATE
We are. You're going to be the centrepiece of some wicked gay orgy :)
GM> ACCEPT GOD'S INVITATION
GM> IF YOU WANT TO JOIN GOD'S CELEBRATION.
Accept our invitation, if your into subjugation... :)
Rod "...George the slave, how fun!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * As Piglet psychosexually said, "Bounce on me too Tigger!"
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:46:32
EID:991d 223d6dc0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee438
* On 30-12-96 at 10:39, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> THE BRIGHTEST HOPE
... was you actually responding to my messages, proving you may
actually have a few neurons still free to fight back against your
Godly delusions...
GM> EVEN IN THE BLEAKEST TIMES,
GM> CHRISTIANS HAVE THE BRIGHTEST HOPE.
You've just got that big grin because we're going to subjugate
you, George :)
Rod "...bleat now, or forever hold your slavery" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Hey fundie! Why can't your mind be as open as your mouth?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:47:34
EID:991d 223d6de0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee476
* On 31-12-96 at 11:35, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> FOOD FOR THE YEAR
You can have my meal every day, boy! :)
GM> THE BIBLE IS BREAD FOR DAILY USE,
GM> NOT CAKE FOR SPECIAL OCCASIONS.
...But you're a cakeboy, George :)
Rod "...praise Queersus" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Without fools there would be no wisdom
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Slave
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:48:36
EID:4368 223d6e00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee4b4
* On 01-01-97 at 17:27, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> THE FOREST AND THE TREE
A story about a Forest of Christians, and how they persecute
Innocent Trees...
GM> THE WAY YOU RESPOND TO TEMPTATION
GM> WILL MAKE YOU OR BREAK YOU.
You responded to my temptations, George. It broke you :)
Rod "...you just have to give your mind up to me, rather than
God, now..." Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Do not adjust your mind, the fault is with reality.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
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SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Whipping
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:49:38
EID:dfdd 223d6e20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee4f2
* On 02-01-97 at 11:33, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> WHY WE'RE HERE
You're here to serve me, George, and never forget your place at
*my* feet. You can call me master now :)
GM> OPPORTUNITIES TO BE KIND
GM> ARE NEVER HARD TO FIND.
But you prefer me to treat you bad, don't you George. It gets
you all excited :)
Rod "...you're mine, George :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't just stand there!!! Kneel!!!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:51:40
EID:991d 223d6e60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee56c
* On 03-01-97 at 11:51, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> WORSHIP SERVICE
That is exactly what I expect from you. To worship me, and
service my needs, George. That's what good slaves do.
GM> WHEN WE WORSHIP GOD, WE'RE PART OF A FELLOWSHIP
GM> AS WIDE AS THE WORLD AND AS HIGH AS HEAVEN.
But when you worship me, you'll be treated good. If you don't...
I'll treat you even better :) :)
Rod "...eh, slave George?" Swift
* OLX 2.1 TD * I'm not dead, I'm metabolically-challenged
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:53:44
EID:991d 223d6ea0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee5e8
* On 05-01-97 at 12:18, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> HELPING GOD
If God is so powerful, why does he need the help of mere mortals?
GM> FACING AN IMPOSSIBILITY
GM> GIVES US THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRUST GOD.
...and then be completely damning of the deity-construct when his
intervention in our lives is not forthcoming -- leading to
disillusionment with the said deity-construct.
Rod "...God better start performing some average prayer requests,
or his followers will no longer be that" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Do unto others, often.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:54:46
EID:991d 223d6ec0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee626
* On 06-01-97 at 12:04, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> TERMS OF OBEDIENCE
Yes, I will provide you with some, new slave of mine.
GM> TRUE OBEDIENCE IS ON GOD'S TERMS, NOT OURS.
Yes, I will be your God. You will do what I say. If you do not,
I will severely punish you. Do you want to know more about your
service to me, slave?
Rod "...I love you, slave George. And you're mine!!!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't believe in miracles, expect them
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:55:48
EID:991d 223d6ee0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee664
* On 07-01-97 at 11:04, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> "OUT OF WORK"
You won't need to work when you're my chattel, George slave. I
will keep you.
GM> WHOEVER GUARDS HIS MOUTH AND TONGUE
GM> KEEPS HIS SOUL FROM TROUBLES.
Sound advice, slave of mine. You should heed it, before Master
Rod has to mete out some punishment.
Rod "...naughty slaves will learn to be good" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Necrotelecomnicon: Book of dead phone numbers
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:56:50
EID:991d 223d6f00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee6a2
* On 08-01-97 at 10:59, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> I'M IN DEBT
You are, yes, George. You're indebted to me from saving you from
your sorry existence and adding your toil to my resources, slave.
GM> HOW CAN WE GIVE ONLY A LITTLE
GM> WHEN CHRIST GAVE US HIS ALL?
I agree. I expect you to give yourself over to me, George. Now!
Rod "...you have no choice, slave of mine" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Laugh and the world thinks you're an idiot
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:57:52
EID:991d 223d6f20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee6e0
* On 09-01-97 at 12:16, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> CHILDREN MAY NOT INHERIT THEIR PARENTS' TALENTS,
GM> BUT THEY WILL ABSORB THEIR VALUES.
I never knew that you came from a home filled with mental-abuse,
George... :)
Rod "...because you've been mentally abused" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Bugger me with a fish fork!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: the other shoe
|Date: 29 Jan 97 14:01:54
EID:188d 223d7020
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee7d2
* On 09-01-97 at 10:27, AL SCHROEDER wrote to RONALD VASS,
on the topic of "the other shoe" in echo Holysmoke:
AS> AS> Ron.
AS> RV>
AS> RV> You were addressing a post to the Swift Rod of truth.
AS> Typo. But my apologies both to you and Rod.
Apology not accepted.
AS> RV> Controlling the freewill of Mike ? You Nasty Christian, you. In
AS> RV> case it slip by you , Mike is a well educated
lad
AS> RV> and very capable of defending himself.
AS> Never doubted it for a minute. And certainly nothing would keep him
from
AS> doing so. But after looking at, say, six posts from Ron all responding
to
AS> points raised in AUGUST, it seems pretty silly. ---
See the underlined text above as to why your apology is not
accepted by me, because it was never sincere by you, Al.
AS> RV> You claimed, you Don't do that, and You just did. Beauty Al, a
real
AS> RV> beauty. Toss out a Al gem, not even related to the material
in
AS> RV> the post Al was replying to.
AS> It seems quite appropriate at the time. Since Loki loves mischief.
But highly erroneous, and merely speculative. Of course, any
such expectation of an apology on my behalf contains a caveat
that will state that it was never sincere in the first place.
AS> RV> To address Rod as Ron was cute enought, but that pearl, was even
AS> Don't confuse Machiavellian scheming for a simple typo, Ron.
A simple typo you *again* repeat in this reply to Ron.
AS> RV> If i were to believe in a god, it would be Lucifer, since going
by the
AS> RV> book of lies, Lucifer at least tells the truth. Brings the light
of
AS> RV> day upon the evil of the christian belief/god and shows of its
rot.
AS> Which is no doubt why Jesus refers to him as "the father of lies..."
But
AS> many people know that the cleverest way to tell a lie is to tell a
half
AS> truth.
So you now admit to being under Satan's control with the litany
of lies in both your first post in this thread to me, and your
blatant dishonesty in this latest reply?
Rod "...I expect you to do nothing less than fall on a sword over
this issue, and admit you are actually wrong, Al. No half-baked
explanations, just admission." Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * First rule of intelligent tinkering: Save all the parts
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Quote
|Date: 29 Jan 97 14:02:56
EID:6c40 223d7040
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee810
* On 08-01-97 at 13:55, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Quote" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> Faith and belief are usually based on something. - Mark English
FR> Yes. Myth. Faith and belief come out of lack of knowledge. - Rod
Swift
I am indeed honoured, Fredric. Thank you.
Rod "...you using my quotation is another case of a good
public-service-announcement to this echo... That's another
atheist 'good work' to piss Jesse off with :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * If Jesus is Jewish, why does he have a Spanish name?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 213/213 218/890 907 270/101
SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
SEEN-BY: 2401/0 2424/10 2442/0 2608/2 2803/1 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Al S.; Warring Christani
|Date: 29 Jan 97 14:03:58
EID:57d4 223d7060
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee84e
* On 08-01-97 at 18:47, FREDRIC RICE wrote to GWENNY THE POOH,
on the topic of "Al S.; Warring Christanic" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> FR> Because you disagree with David about bone structure
FR> fr> doesn't mean that everything he says is subject to opinion.
FR> gtp> Everything everyone says is subject to opinion. I
FR> gtp> figure David's just mad cuz I wouldn't come and show him
FR> gtp> my tits.
FR> Hey! Come to think of it, _I'VE_ never been allowed to
FR> fondle your teats! Now _I'm_ angry! }:-}
FR> ~*~ The only thing wrong with masturbation is loneliness. - Al Schroeder
FR> You've never tried it in a group? :) I thought that's what the
FR> death cult was all about! :) - Rod Swift
Thanks for this quotation being put into your illustrious
collection. I consider it an honour. I hope that I can provide
many more posts and quotes to your collection of online debunking
material.
Rod "...it's all part of the new post-Christian America that we
so dream about" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Found God? What, have you lost him *again*?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Educational Experienc
|Date: 29 Jan 97 14:04:00
EID:f601 223d7080
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee850
* On 31-12-96 at 11:12, JIM STAAL wrote to RICHARD SMITH,
on the topic of "Educational Experienc" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> On (30 Dec 96) Richard Smith wrote to Rod Swift...
JS> RS> He's a fucking bigot, period.
JS> And you sir, are an obvious ignorant gnome.
... and all that Christian love just washes over me. Praise
Jesus! I've been converted...
Rod "...not fucking likely" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * I wanted to be born again but my mother said: "No!"
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Believer
|Date: 29 Jan 97 14:05:02
EID:40c3 223d70a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee88e
* On 08-01-97 at 14:10, FREDRIC RICE wrote to MARK ENGLISH,
on the topic of "Believer" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> ME> My worst nightmare is a world full of faggots, is that you?
FR> I'll bet you're a Christian.
You are 100% right, Fred :)
Rod "... he was :) He's also left now. Might be that untenable
belief system crumbling that made him leave :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Politics: Poly=many, Ticks=blood-sucking parasites
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: You're a Christian. I k
|Date: 29 Jan 97 14:06:04
EID:265a 223d70c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee8cc
* On 08-01-97 at 14:11, FREDRIC RICE wrote to MARK ENGLISH,
on the topic of "You're a Christian. I kn" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> ME> **** YOU, YOU HAIRLESS LITTLE FAGGOT!
FR> Ah, I see that you _are_ a Christian. Gee. Imagine how I knew that.
All faggots are hareless. We all know that gerbils fit better.
Rod "...ROFL!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Can I put my Sharp in your mainframe on the desktop?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Domino
|Sub: Thanks
|Date: 29 Jan 97 14:07:06
EID:2da8 223d70e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eee90a
* On 08-01-97 at 22:45, DOMINO wrote to GWENNY THE POOH,
on the topic of "Thanks" in echo Holysmoke:
DO> Snort.. Snicker.. As far as I've seen, he has yet to comment in Thump_it!
DO> about when I let good 'ol Trent (resident fundy) in on my little secret:
I'm
DO> bi and it wasn't a choice.. Trent has this affinity for
DO> ignoring first hand facts.. (He's claimed a multitude of
DO> times that bi/homosexuality is a choice.. Odd.. Wasn't a
DO> choice for me..)
DO> David? What *were*(are) your thoughts on it?
I'd love to hear the thoughts of some of the fundies around here
;) :)
Rod "...praise the Stargoat, and pass the nitrous oxide" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Easter is cancelled this year. They've found the body.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Christian Dating Service
|Date: 29 Jan 97 14:15:08
EID:b713 223d71e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eeeaec
* On 08-01-97 at 18:04, FREDRIC RICE wrote to DAN CEPPA,
on the topic of "Christian Dating Service" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> dc> The diocese later admitted that McGreal was aslo allegedly a
FR> dc> pedophile. He had been twice to the church's treatment center
FR> dc> for pedophiles in Jemez Springs, NM
FR> It has become cliche', huh? Sickening. A Christian dating
FR> service for pedophiles. They ship them off for
FR> "psychological counciling" and, a month later, pretend he's
FR> "cured" and ship him off to his next set of victims.
Sick, isn't it. These bastards should be given the death
penalty, or term-of-natural-life jail terms. :( And the church
should have to pay compensation. Let's start at $1 million per
count of sex act.
Rod "...sick bastards" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't just do something!!! Stand there!!!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Leonard Bernier
|Sub: Hello
|Date: 29 Jan 97 14:26:10
EID:e14b 223d7340
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eeed82
* On 08-01-97 at 13:55, LEONARD BERNIER wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "Hello" in echo Holysmoke:
LB> PRAISE GOD !
LB> Dear Fredric:
LB> "For God so loved the world that He gave His only
LB> begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but
LB> have everlasting life."
For God so loved the world, he gave us HIV
For God so loved the world, he gave us Ebola
For God so loved the world, he gave us third-world famine
For God so loved the world, he gave us the ability to hate and war
For God so loved the world, he gave us damnation
PRAISE GOD, THE SPOILED CHILD-GOD!
* OLX 2.1 TD * Close your mind quick! Something blasphemous may get in!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Tiger Eyes
|Sub: Native Americans
|Date: 29 Jan 97 14:30:12
EID:5de7 223d73c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eeee74
* On 09-01-97 at 15:06, TIGER EYES wrote to J.J. HITT,
on the topic of "Native Americans" in echo Holysmoke:
TE> While scapling J.J. Hitt, for his stupidy, Tiger Eyes told him.....
TE> TE>> Listen to the voices of the Indian nations
TE> JJH> You mean those ignorant shits who never invented the wheel?
TE> JJH> Or a written language?
TE> Look you ignorant Nazi, skin-head motherfucker!
TE> If it weren't for us Native Americans, your ancestor's fucking
TE> white ass would have starved to death.
Dear TigerEyes, it's LoveCub. :) :) Please understand that some
people *are* pulling your chain to elicit such responses.
Flippancy is the best policy around here.
Rod "...you can be better than them, if you so choose :)" Swift :) :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The universe's most common elements: Hydrogen & Stupidity
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: So Long
|Date: 29 Jan 97 14:32:14
EID:063d 223d7400
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eeeeee
* On 09-01-97 at 00:56, DAN CEPPA wrote to MARTIN GOLDBERG,
on the topic of "So Long" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> ... "Bother," said Pooh, as he quietly paid Kanga's abortion bill.
Nate will be onto you. He'll be protesting and picketing
veterinary clinics soon! :)
Rod "...save the gay whales from abortion doctors!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves? Not on my salary he doesn't.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Bible
|Date: 29 Jan 97 14:38:16
EID:fc59 223d74c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eef058
* On 08-01-97 at 16:12, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Bible" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> How about getting a stack of Beavis and Butt-head bookmarks
FR> and inserting them into Christanic bibles at the HolySmoke
FR> convention's hotels? I saw the suggestion in a "Cracked"
FR> magazine.
Oh boy. We could interleave bible pages with gay porn :)
Rod "...watch that Gideon Spin(tm)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * God is watching me? What is he, a pervert?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Blast from the past
|Date: 29 Jan 97 14:39:18
EID:34ce 223d74e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eef096
* On 08-01-97 at 16:25, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Blast from the past" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> But the fact that the disciples all saw and ate and
FR> touched Jesus is important. - Al Schroeder
FR> Christanic cannibalism. Disgusting!
... after the obligatory homophilic advances of wanting to "touch
Jesus", Fred :) :)
Rod "...but we all know Jesus was gay" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Christians wanted, apply at Perth Zoo's lion cage
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Ski Canada -- In the sum
|Date: 29 Jan 97 14:43:20
EID:6b59 223d7560
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eef188
* On 08-01-97 at 17:18, FREDRIC RICE wrote to SUE ARMSTRONG,
on the topic of "Ski Canada -- In the summ" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> It sounds like geography is a very poor subject in the
FR> United States. And math. And science. And English. I
FR> suspect that what you ran into was someone who learned
FR> everything he knew about Canada from watching television
FR> documentaries.
Or from that lovely news "feature" at http://www.theonion.com/
(it's in the ARCHIVES section of that web site).
FR> I'm often embarrassed by American exhibitions of stupidity
FR> and ignorance. When I was in France I disliked muchly the
FR> loud-mouthed Americans who uttered demands and wanted to be
FR> treated like royalty.
Americans are like that everywhere they go in the world. It is
because they don't have the humility to realise they aren't the
best country in the world.
Rod "...'But America is the best nation in the world, you have
McDonald's in Australia!'... 'Australia is the best nation in the
world, you have kangaroos and koalas and emus in your zoos!' :)"
Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * First rule of intelligent tinkering: Save all the parts
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Warring Christanic Facti
|Date: 29 Jan 97 14:48:22
EID:5fb1 223d7600
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eef2b6
* On 10-01-97 at 10:16, J.J. HITT wrote to DAVID WORRELL,
on the topic of "Warring Christanic Factio" in echo Holysmoke:
JH> Oh, yeah? Well, I'm a "ignorant Nazi skinhead motherfucker".
JH> That's the HolySmoke equivalent to a full house.
Ayup! BTW, this should be FAQ'ed
JH> Pair Being called an athiest fundy.
JH> Two Pair Song lyrics, Rush Limbaugh, the Bible,
JH> Readers Digest or Laurie Appleton used
JH> as an authoritative reference.
JH> Three of a Kind Getting yet another reply from someone who
JH> has "twitted" you.
JH> Strait "You didn't quote my entire booklength
JH> message that I worked so hard on!"
JH> Flush Any paragraph over 2000 words.
JH> Full House Any comparison to Hitler or the Nazis.
JH> Strait Flush Threats and curses. Includes the ever
JH> popular "I'll pray for you."
JH> Royal Flush "My hard drive crashed."
JH> Five of a Kind I'm not at all sure, but we'll see one before
JH> too much more time passes.
I propose Five-of-a-Kind is making a spammer speak :) :)
Rod "...Moothy, talkytalky to your master!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * As Piglet psychosexually said, "Bounce on me too Tigger!"
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: All
|Sub: New THE ONION Icon!
|Date: 29 Jan 97 14:50:24
EID:556f 223d7640
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32eef330
There's a new ICON at the onion! (http://www.theonion.com/)
It's "Christianity celebrates it's billionth prayer unanswered".
Thought you might all like it for your webpages :) :)
Rod "...it's on one of the subpages for one of the January
editions" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Martyrdom: The only way someone becomes famous -- Shaw
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Pasta, my ass! It's
|Date: 29 Jan 97 15:48:02
EID:f829 223d7e00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef00b2
* On 10-01-97 at 22:06, ED MILLS wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Pasta, my ass! It's" in echo Holysmoke:
EM> Bilabial Fricatives on 05 Jan 97, of Rod Swift/J.J. Hitt, thus:
EM> RS> Actually, JJ, there's at least 200 basic rights of marriage
EM> RS> denied to gay people. There are a plethora more that are not
EM> RS> even given out by the state, but by other institutions.
EM> Do you think that being afflicted with supernatural belief is a
EM> main cause of this oppression, or a parallel, independent disease?
I think it is causally linked. Christian homophobia is different
to other homophobia. Many people have violent homophobic
reactions due to experiences past. Christians rarely do, and are
carrying out their bible's social agenda.
Christians are the only type of homophobes that actively seek
political office to put their oppression into law. Christian
homophobes are the only type that try to pass referenda against
gays :)
EM> Now that I think about it, I've met just as many non-religious
EM> homophobes as otherwise...
The majority of the non-religious types, however, are not out to
destroy (by legislation) the rights of gay people. Their fear is
somewhat legitimised as it is a personal expression of their own
revulsion at possibly being gay.
They also state "I don't care what they do in private, as long as
they don't hit on me". An expression of their own interests.
Rod "...the religious ones want to actively destroy oppositions" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Never attribute to malice that which stupidity explains
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Double Standard Ken!
|Date: 29 Jan 97 16:02:04
EID:a2a8 223d8040
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef03fc
* On 10-01-97 at 12:12, JUDITH BANDSMA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Double Standard Ken!" in echo Holysmoke:
JB> RS> Christian who stands up for denying disease-control information
JB> RS> to the public? Are they murderers by denying the information
JB> Today's stupidity from South Carolina. (It's really getting to be a
JB> bad habit.)
JB> Governor David Beasley (stealth RR candidate until he won the election)
JB> today cut off funds to the state health departments that distribute
JB> condoms. The condoms go or they close their doors. He says it doesn't
fit
JB> with his 'family oriented' policy.
Reminds me of the Dallas County Commissioners, and their federal
funding. I believe they lost their HIV-combat funding?
JB> State health departments provide immunizations for children whose parents
JB> can't afford them, mental health facilities, hearing and speech clinics...
JB> in addition to the traditional STD clinics. In this state they also
JB> provide pregnancy testing and referral (NOT abortion) and many other
health
JB> services such as the rabies vaccine my friend Cheryl just had to have
due
JB> to a bite from a stray dog.
JB> But, because they also provide condoms for those who cannot afford them,
JB> they are persona non grata...unless they cease and desist with this
service.
JB> HOW FUCKING STUPID IS THIS STATE GOING TO GET?
Until the legislators' own family members start falling off the
perch, I don't know, Judith.
Sensible governments have always approached HIV as a disease
control issue. Condom education is better than dead teens in
every country, it seems, but the US.
JB> (that's a rhetorical question and nobody need even try to answer it.)
Because the answer is too hard to bear.
Rod "...true political statesmen and stateswomen no longer exist
in the US, Judith, because being a statesperson means making and
taking the politically difficult decisions that reap LONG-TERM,
not short-term, rewards" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Laugh and the world thinks you're an idiot
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: World wide flood! [1/
|Date: 29 Jan 97 16:03:06
EID:46c0 223d8060
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef043a
* On 10-01-97 at 12:08, JUDITH BANDSMA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "World wide flood! [1/" in echo Holysmoke:
JB> -=> Rod Swift spoke thusly to Doug Schwandt <=-
JB> RS> also find, further, that marsupials are not exclusive to
JB> RS> Australia :) Looked in South America recently?
JB> Hell, he hasn't even looked in his own back yard. Does the word 'possum
JB> ring a bell?
BOC :)
Rod "...thanks Judith" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Commit the oldest sins the newest kind of ways
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: Promisekeepers Article
|Date: 29 Jan 97 16:03:08
EID:a784 223d8060
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef043c
* On 10-01-97 at 15:53, KAREN DAVIS wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Promisekeepers Article" in echo Holysmoke:
KD> On (02 Jan 97) Rod Swift wrote to Karen Davis...
KD> RS> It's also a kill fag club. And John can't deny that promisefilth
KD> RS> have physically assaulted protesters outside "conferences"
KD> RS> either -- can he?
KD> have they?
I'll hunt the net for the relevant articles. There are some
hateful examples out there.
Rod "...I know, I used to use the articles to get the
promisefilth all upset in their USENET newsgroup" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Politics: Poly=many, Ticks=blood-sucking parasites
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: Legislating Morality
|Date: 29 Jan 97 16:06:10
EID:7e42 223d80c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef04f2
* On 10-01-97 at 15:54, KAREN DAVIS wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Legislating Morality" in echo Holysmoke:
KD> On (07 Jan 97) Rod Swift wrote to Karen Davis...
KD> RS> No. It doesn't. And here's the real joke. Rep Bob Barr (R-GA)
KD> RS> was the person who introduced this bill. He's onto his THIRD
KD> RS> WIFE.
KD> Typical.
Isn't it, though. It'd be like Newt Gingrich writing tomes on
ethical behaviour :)
KD> RS> If he was surely supporting defending marriage, he'd do something
KD> RS> like outlaw no-fault divorce.
KD> Agreed!
Or he'd keep Newtie accountable for divorcing his first wife on
the hospital bed!
KD> RS> Congratulations, Karen.
KD> Thank you.
You're welcome, and due adulatory congratulations :)
KD> RS> Christopher and I are starting our FIFTH year in our
KD> RS> relationship. We live 12,000km apart. Of course, Ken's probably
KD> RS> one of those whiners who says: "But homosexuals have equal rights
KD> RS> already. They have the right to live their lives together".
KD> A long distance gay relationship? That's unusual.
Not really. There are at least 4,000 binational couples on the
mailing list of the Lesbian and Gay Immigration and Asylum Rights
Task Force in New York. We expect that there are probably
40,000-50,000 binational gay couples in the US.
Rod "...I know one couple who have been living apart 24 years :(
and this injustice must end soon" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Dyslexic agnostics don't know whether there is a dog!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Pasta, my ass! It's
|Date: 29 Jan 97 16:07:12
EID:4077 223d80e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef0530
* On 11-01-97 at 09:48, J.J. HITT wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Pasta, my ass! It's" in echo Holysmoke:
JH> On Jan 05 13:41 97, Rod Swift of 3:690/660 wrote:
JH> JH>> The issue (as I see it) with homosexual marriages isn't so
JH> JH>> much with the government, but the insurance companies. If
JH> JH>> we had universal health care coverage under a single payer
JH> JH>> system, then 99 percent of the fuss over gay marriages
JH> JH>> would disappear overnight.
JH> RS> Actually, it's not really.
JH> Excelent points.
Thanks JJ. I didn't mean to sound like I was flaming you. There
are many reasons that same-gender couples want to marry. The
most important one is freedom.
Rod "...thanks for your support, JJ" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Was that my hard drive, or are you torturing a cat?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Cure
|Date: 29 Jan 97 16:07:14
EID:b46c 223d80e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef0532
* On 11-01-97 at 11:58, GLEN TODD wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Cure" in echo Holysmoke:
GT> While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Rod
Swift
GT> whisper furtively to Dave Ewen something about Cure:
GT> RS> Why are you making the assumption that -- in sexual orientation
GT> RS> -- there is only one "correct" sexuality?
GT> 'Cus his babble done tole him so. {disgusted grimace}
Science tells us different, though, eh? :)
Rod "...another case of the bible colliding with science, and
science winning, yet again" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Atheist: a person with no invisible means of support
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Luke 10:17-20 (NKJV)
|Date: 29 Jan 97 16:08:16
EID:b9ae 223d8100
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef0570
* On 11-01-97 at 12:00, GLEN TODD wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Luke 10:17-20 (NKJV)" in echo Holysmoke:
GT> Heilsa, Rod Swift!
GT> While idly toying with a yellow silk scarf, Glen Todd overheard Rod
Swift
GT> whisper furtively to Katherine Wintersnight something about
GT> Luke 10:17-20 (NKJV):
GT> RS> The INHELL 666MHz Pentagram-Inside(tm) Pentagram Pro Processor.
GT> RS> It's from the Joke Wallpaper Site on the Internet. I'll share it
GT> What's the URL?
http://www.jokewallpaper.com/
The pentagram pro processor is on Judith's page, from memory...
Or is it Katherine's?
Rod "...I saw it on someone's page :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Martyrdom: The only way someone becomes famous -- Shaw
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Glen Todd
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 16:09:18
EID:68cc 223d8120
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef05ae
* On 11-01-97 at 13:31, GLEN TODD wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GT> GM>> TO GAIN SELF-CONTROL,
GT> GM>> GIVE CHRIST CONTROL.
GT> RS> Normally I get a lot of mirth by telling George how silly his
GT> RS> little cans of spam are each day.
GT> I don't even bother anymore, because I've seen no evidence
GT> that he reads anything in here.
He did post four replies to me.
Claimed I was under Satan's control *yawn*....
GT> RS> However, this one takes the cake. It's self-contradictory.
GT> That _is_ even more brainless than usual for him.
You gotta love it. Maybe all my enturbulation of him is starting
to take effect....
GT> It also says something for the sorry state of his alleged
GT> higher intellectual functions that _he_ didn't notice the
GT> inherent internal contradiction.
They get that way after they've been brainwashed with the Josh
McDowell Stuff....
Rod "...That McDowell stuff really wrecks the mind :) :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Satanic: Anything a fundie Christian doesn't like
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Execute Her ?
|Date: 29 Jan 97 16:23:20
EID:b0af 223d82e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef08f8
* On 12-01-97 at 14:38, ROD SWIFT wrote to GWENNY THE POOH,
on the topic of "Execute Her ?" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> On 01-11-96 at 20:47, GWENNY THE POOH wrote to ROGER HUNTER:
RS> Oh my, I think I died and went to comedic heaven. BTW, that new
RS> movie with Cleese, Palin and Curtis in it looks good. :)
This movie, BTW, was Fierce Creatures :) Just for your info,
Gwenny!
"....hmmm... where does the third one go?"
Rod "...hehehe" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Anti-women, anti-gay -- born again bigot, go away!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: do you know this gay?
|Date: 29 Jan 97 16:26:22
EID:a2ee 223d8340
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef09ae
* On 09-01-97 at 20:53, FREDRIC RICE wrote to MARTIN GOLDBERG,
on the topic of "do you know this gay?" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> "Diddled?" Is that anything like masturbating
FR> while looking at my web page with my photograph on it?
Diddled is normally a sexual congress thing, in Zone 2 :)
Rod "...for your info" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * If Jesus is Jewish, why does he have a Spanish name?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Miracle on Jan 4
|Date: 29 Jan 97 16:28:24
EID:5d47 223d8380
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef0a28
* On 11-01-97 at 14:43, MIMI MILSTEIN wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Miracle on Jan 4" in echo Holysmoke:
MM> Hello All!
Hello Mimi!
MM> Did you all see it: On Jan-04-97 George the Mooth actually
MM> replied to 4 msgs from Rod Swift, and they sat right inside
MM> a run of his usual unsolicited rubbish, so it was not a fake.
Yes, I made Mooth Talk. I suspect it is because he thinks I'm
controlled by Say-tan, and he wants to have a battle with Say-tan.
MM> Now how come he only wants to speak to Australians and the
MM> rest of us get ignored? I am also in the Southern hemisphere
MM> but I am obviously not good enough
You should see my latest batch of *FILTH FILTH FILTH* :)
Rod "...he's my slaveboy now :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Commit the oldest sins the newest kind of ways
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 16:29:26
EID:13d0 223d83a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef0a66
* On 11-01-97 at 11:36, J.J. HITT wrote to GEORGE MOOTH,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
JH> On Jan 04 12:33 97, George Mooth of 1:2285/100 wrote:
JH> GM> We are all in mental salavery.
JH> Brain spit?
That's exactly what it did when he saw my messages. I've been
sending telepathic messages containing pictures of Rush Limbaugh
and Marie Osmond having sex into his mind, just so he will be
outraged enough to post a reply :) :)
Rod "...next week, it'll be Rush and Donnie" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The Christian Right is neither
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Our Daily Jesus Penis Si
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:08:28
EID:f1ce 223d8900
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef138c
* On 11-01-97 at 11:21, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Our Daily Jesus Penis Siz" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> rs> A "size of jesus" post of mine made it all the way into Federal
FR> rs> Court in New York, in a Communications Decency Act legal
FR> rs> challenge :)
FR> Hopefully it was brought up as an example of the
FR> entertainment value of Internet. }:-}
No, actually. It was brought up as a posting that a litigant
named Fred Cherry claims he "cannot post" because the CDA does
not allow him to use such language as I did.
Journalists reviewing the case posted on the net that the
satirical post of mine would have been better used as a case of
advocacy for the CDA to be unlawful on the detriment that it
stopped clearly humorous, satirical speech as mine was :)
Rod "...I can dig out some ol' posts for you. If you want to
find more about how I'm an 'Australian homonazi', do a search of
http://www.altavista.digital.com/ for the name 'Fred Cherry'" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Never attribute to malice that which stupidity explains
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Atheist eh!
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:08:30
EID:9e60 223d8900
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef138e
* On 11-01-97 at 11:55, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Atheist eh!" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> JP> Agreed. You're exactly right.
FR> JP> Most atheist HAVE been through the religious phase and outgrew
it.
FR> rs> I have never been exposed to the
FR> rs> indoctrination of the Christian religion.
FR> [...major cuts...]
FR> That's a very damn good summation, Rod. I'm going to turn
FR> it into a web page and make it generally available. I'll
FR> post a copy in this forum.
Thanks. I'm planning on writing more such essays and discourse on
religious thought in the future :)
Rod "...praise Jesus, and pass the flamethrower :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Psychic convention cancelled due to unforeseen problems
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Ask And Ye Shall Receive
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:10:32
EID:819a 223d8940
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef1408
* On 11-01-97 at 12:18, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ask And Ye Shall Receive" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> JS> He does have his plan. God is a god of order.
FR> rs> Would he like super-sized fries with that order?
FR> "Sorry, not my table." His death cult sells his gods door
FR> to door like a crazed mob of Fuller Brush salesmen.
Ah, but you don't know how I get rid of the door-to-door fundies,
do you? :)
Rod "...has the Morons and JayWubbleYars running" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Atheism: A non-prophet organisation
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: christolaters
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:11:34
EID:1b50 223d8960
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef1446
* On 11-01-97 at 12:33, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "christolaters" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> rs> It was always the Jay-Dubs or the Mor(m)ons. Nice young men --
FR> rs> but the worst thing about them was that I view them as
FR> rs> invasionary missionaries into this nation.
FR> It's an embarrassment (at least to me) that the United
FR> States exports its lunacy around the world. England
FR> refused to allow a group of American terrorists into their
FR> country which sparked some debates while I was in Holland last.
And to think the Scienos were recently outlawed in Greece :) :)
Rod "...hahahah :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Fundamentalist: (n) Ape-like creature with a Bible
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: christolaters
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:12:36
EID:1b50 223d8980
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef1484
* On 11-01-97 at 12:37, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "christolaters" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> rs> Rod "... come back, Mormon-heads! I want to hug you
FR> rs> and squeeze you and put you in cages!" Elmira Swift :)
FR>
You know, Fredric, I suspect we have similar desires to torture
people's mental synapses with religious debunkery :) We really
should get together and tag-team debunk some Kwisters :)
Maybe when I'm passing through Los Angeles next, we can get
together and have a fundy-ol'-time :)
Rod "...hehehe :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Anti-women, anti-gay -- born again bigot, go away!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Url Update
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:12:38
EID:2376 223d8980
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef1486
* On 11-01-97 at 12:42, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Url Update" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> rs> The freethought archives have been moved
FR> rs> from Texas A&M to www.infidels.org
FR> Thanks for the heads-up. I have two links and have updated them.
Remember, in the most part, Atheists do no good things... So
remember I was being hateful and hurtful to you by advising you.
It'll certainly make Jesse spin :) :)
Rod "...*waves* to Jesse" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Diplomacy: The patriotic art of lying for one's country
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Where do they do it?
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:14:40
EID:4702 223d89c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef1500
* On 11-01-97 at 12:49, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Where do they do it?" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> JH> It's part of a Catholic church. It's latin for "back room".
FR> rs> That's where they rape the little kiddies, right?
FR> In my archives is a review of a Christian master who would
FR> take children up to the roof of his rectory to rape them.
Rectory... sounds a lot like rectum! :)
FR> His explanation? He told the kids that there wasn't
FR> anything wrong with being raped; "Here! I'll prove it and
FR> rape you on the roof where god can watch."
Oh yeah. That sounds like those sicko Christian fuckers to me!
Rod "...Christian padophile priests are sickos" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * At least I never misplaced the Deltivid asteroid belt - Q
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Your Legal Problems
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:15:42
EID:372a 223d89e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef153e
* On 11-01-97 at 12:53, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Your Legal Problems" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> DR> Just say "Clarence Thomas" and run.
FR> rs> Some days, I wonder if dear ol' Clarence sits on Scalia's knee
FR> rs> and Scalia's hand is, well, ummm, manipulating the poor dummy. :)
FR> Thomas was subjected to public inquiry as to his unwanted
FR> sexual advances toward his staff (pun _certainly_
FR> intended.) He appears to be another Oreo Cookie womanizer.
FR> In itself that's not illegal.
However, it is undeniable that Clarence is clearly being led
along by Scalia :) :)
Rod "...he nearly always votes the same way as mistuh Scalia :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * If this is reality I want a refund!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Praise Jesus! Masten
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:18:44
EID:86c0 223d8a40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef15f4
* On 11-01-97 at 13:01, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Praise Jesus! Masten" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> #include ANDREW MASTEN
FR> AM> My daughter has a transposed gene.. as a result she was born with
a
FR> AM> critical heart condition known as tetralogy of fellot ( a hole in
FR> AM> her heart and other pathology). She is missing a kidney. She is
FR> AM> profoundly deaf. She had her first surgery at 4 days old. She
had
FR> AM> open heart surgery at 1 1/2 years old. Twice her heart stopped
FR> AM> requiring resusitation. She now wears a pacemaker. [...]
FR> rs> Have you forgiven your God for the cruel and sick and twisted and
FR> rs> sadistic and barbarous thing he has done to your child, Andrew?
FR> We now know the reason why Andy clings to his occultism.
There are two possibilities... Dispense with God because of his
cruelty and run away from the abuser, or (like women who keep
going back to abusive spouses) cling on harder to the abuse. I
suspect he holds his faith in Jeeezus and grasps even harder is
out of some faint hope that God will save his child.
FR> rs> Why? Why does that sick fuck deserve your loyalty?
FR> Because if he doesn't, his gods will take their revenge on
FR> him and he'll end up like his daughter, entertaining the
FR> fruits of his becoming a free man.
Sounds tantalising :)
FR> Hard luck stories seem to be a part of the most rabid
FR> fundamentalist mindset.
I think some trigger is part of the fundie mindset.
Tragic family lives have them screaming about how God loves their
family and their family can be "healed".
Tragic cases of familial homosexual experiences have them
screaming how gays can be "cured".
Tragic cases of having small penises have them screaming about
how they had a bout of "infidelity".
You work it out :)
Rod "...not that hard, really? The scream loudest about the sins
closest to home." Swift
* OLX 2.1 TD * The real world is a special case
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Occam
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:19:46
EID:8dff 223d8a60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef1632
* On 11-01-97 at 05:50, ROBERT CURRY wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Occam" in echo Holysmoke:
RC> with: CURTIS JOHNSON
RC> CJ> No doubt Ken Wiens would call him a logical positivist.
RC> RC> ROFL!
RC> RC> For this, you win a coupon book redeemable at:
RC> RC> John Brawley's Nonlocal House of Cheese
RC> RS> Do you get vouchers for pre-packaged and wrapped gift-whine?
RC> You must be _way_ behind in your mail if you are just now responding
RC> to a post from September, 1996!
I have been catching up :)
RC> Would it be evil of me, I wonder, to answer the question?
No.... Please do :)
Rod "...please please do :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Gun Control: The ability to drop a fundie at 500 yards
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: A Serious Question
|Date: 29 Jan 97 19:10:48
EID:a78b 223d9940
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef3038
* On 11-01-97 at 10:41, AL SCHROEDER wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "A Serious Question" in echo Holysmoke:
AS> Well, at least you've worked your way to September. You might actual
work
AS> your way to the present, if you try REAL hard...
As we say in Australia, Al, "go fuck yourself..." :)
AS> And...when incarnated as Jesus...spent the vast majority of His miracles
AS> healing the lame, the cripped, the blind, the sick...
AS> Exactly WHERE does He call random misery "good"?
AS> RS> What a spoiled and mean deity! Why do you still believe in him,
AS> RS> Al, after all his barbarism and torture?
AS> Because I don't believe He shows either.
Then I need not go further with your self-delusional state. If
you cannot see the misery of humanity all around you, I suggest
you travel to the third world or a hospital.
Your god is a god of cruelty, Al.
* OLX 2.1 TD * Here fundie, fundie, fundie... Nice fundie... *whomp!*
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Ask And Ye Shall Rece
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:22:50
EID:ec05 223d8ac0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef16ea
* On 11-01-97 at 10:55, AL SCHROEDER wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ask And Ye Shall Rece" in echo Holysmoke:
AS> RS> Why not? Your god's a damn VORLON!
AS> Better than being from Centauri-Prime, I guess....
So sure of that?
Rod "...eaten any good books lately, Worf?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The only rational solution to your problem is suicide
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Baby In Critical Conditi
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:23:52
EID:e4af 223d8ae0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef1728
* On 11-01-97 at 11:01, AL SCHROEDER wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Baby In Critical Conditi" in echo Holysmoke:
AS> Still in September, I see. Let me know when you come out of the time
AS> warp...
"...let me know when you actually answer one of those really hard
questions, Al" :)
AS>JB> Oh? You never said that Gwenny was the 'delightful' person we know
today
AS>JB> due in large part to what she survived as a child? You may not have
used
AS>JB> the exact word 'better' but it sure as hell came down to the same
thing.
AS> I'm not going to respond to the rest of this, Rod, as I told you I
AS> wouldn't on that subject. But I will mention...as you will see if you
keep
AS> reading...that I responded that I did NOT say that Gwenny was the
AS> "delightful" person BECAUSE of what she survived as a child. I said
she
AS> was a "delightful" person DESPITE of what she survived as a child.
See the
AS> difference?
No. Your God had the ability to stop it.
Your God is a sick bastard, Al. And you're to blame! :)
Rod "...the good thing about omniscience is that you can blame
everything on the omniscient! :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Anti-women, anti-gay -- born again bigot, go away!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Hitt is full of shit!!
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:41:54
EID:e27f 223d8d20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef1b62
* On 11-01-97 at 18:41, AL SCHROEDER wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Hitt is full of shit!!" in echo Holysmoke:
AS> Yes? It was an obviously bobus attempt at "suicide", doubtless only
AS> posted to make us feel guilty. You yourself agreed to that, in this
AS> same packet. But of course, if you got back and read THOUSANDS of posts
AS> over a YEAR'S time, of course you're going to lose the thread of things...
Now I know why I was told not to trust you. You lie, and lie so
that you can disparage others.
I have not been reading "thousands of posts over a year's time".
The post of mine was posted on 01-OCT-96, not 10-JAN-96. Maybe
you should get a clue about DD-MMM-YY date formats, loser, before
you shoot off your mouth that I'm quoting posts from January 1996
that really were from October.
Rod "... maybe I should have listened, rather than given you an
opportunity to prove the hearsay wrong" Swift
* OLX 2.1 TD * Mud thrown is ground lost
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Matter of faith 3of3
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:42:56
EID:0ab4 223d8d40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef1ba0
* On 11-01-97 at 18:55, AL SCHROEDER wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Matter of faith 3of3" in echo Holysmoke:
AS> AS> Well, I would MUCH rather be in my friend's shoes, when and
if that
AS> AS> happens, than in that minister's. I think he did a
AS> AS> damnable thing, by any standard.
AS> RS> Exposing such minister is the best thing in the public interest.
AS> RS> How many more gay people have they hurt/contributed to the
AS> RS> suicide of/beaten/killed?
AS> Trust me. I am quick to add the name of the minister, who works in
AS> Nashville, to any Nashvillian interested. If he branches out, I will
make
AS> it more public.
I hazard to say that I don't care how friendly you are, Al, you
are now my enemy.
Rod "...and I will do everything to protect myself from your evil
and hateful agenda, Al" Swift
* OLX 2.1 TD * That was Zen... This is Tao!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:43:58
EID:bf4a 223d8d60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef1bde
* On 11-01-97 at 19:30, AL SCHROEDER wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
AS> RS> ... You see, such a child is living proof that God is a sick,
AS> RS> cruel, and sadistic being. Why would he suffer such a child to
AS> RS> live? And as each person who ever thinks about the purpose of
AS> RS> such a disability as a "gift from God", and their observation of
AS> RS> the ever so plastic-smile spindoctoring of religious types, the
AS> RS> overwhelming majority lose faith in such a sick and twisted deity
AS> RS> structure quickly, and with passion to tell others.
AS> Oddly enough, Rod, my church has a special Sunday School class for
kids
AS> with mental disabilities. And has welcomed many other with other
AS> disabilities.
AS> Some of our deacons have disabilities.
AS> Jesus came not to heal the well, but the sick, to help those in need,
AS> not those not in need of a physician.
Tell that to the person that had her faith shattered because some
religious loons told her that her disability was "God's
punishment" on her.
Rod "...then again, you say such insensitive things. Why the
hell would you care, Al?" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Accept Jesus as my Saviour? Why, that'd be selfish!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Praise Jesus!
|Date: 29 Jan 97 19:12:00
EID:2cc1 223d9980
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef3080
* On 11-01-97 at 22:02, AL SCHROEDER wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Praise Jesus!" in echo Holysmoke:
AS> RS> Have you forgiven your God for the cruel and sick and twisted and
AS> RS> sadistic and barbarous thing he has done to your child, Andrew?
AS> Um. Despite your habit of replying to posts that are given six months
to a
AS> year ago, I had formed a good opinion of you, Rod, especially on #irc.
AS> That's why the cruelty of the above seems so out-of-character.
Shove your holier-than-thou judgement squarely up your ass, Al.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt. That benefit was just
revoked.
If you ever care to apologise for your atrociously judgemental,
bigoted, and hateful behaviour, call 1-800-GO-RICKI.
Rod "...because, honestly, I couldn't really give a shit about
you, Al. You've really disappointed me." Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Live sex in a Toyota nixes evil
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Holysmoke.
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:47:02
EID:f784 223d8de0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef1c96
* On 11-01-97 at 06:52, GWENNY THE POOH wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Holysmoke." in echo Holysmoke:
GTP> LC>> Ok people, you can stop replying to my mail. I'm going back
GTP> LC>> to university. If you still have any beef you can e-mail me at
GTP> LC>> lconstan@undergrad.math.uwaterloo.ca.
GTP> LC>> Nice chatting with you all, nice discovering this little
GTP> LC>> secluded escape from reality.
GTP> RS> Can I *please* turn this guy into a hand-puppet next summer?
GTP> RS> Pleaaase???
GTP> You mean, like Lambchops?
Screw it. I feel like ripping Al Schroeder a new asshole right
now. How dare he do what he has done.
Rod "...bearing false witness is a sin. Someone should remind
him of this." Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Diplomacy: Saying "nice doggy" until you can find a rock
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: 'Cargo Cult' Reply
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:49:04
EID:bfee 223d8e20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef1d10
* On 12-01-97 at 15:40, STEVE QUARRELLA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "'Cargo Cult' Reply" in echo Holysmoke:
SQ> RS> On 17-09-96 at 18:32, STEVE QUARRELLA wrote to DAVID RICE:
SQ> SEPTEMBER?
SQ> Holy shit, Rod, where's this stuff been hiding?
In the packets I downloaded while I took a hiatus from posting
from August-November.
SQ> SQ>> Shit, I wouldn't have known who W.V. Grant was unless I had
SQ> SQ>> read "The Faith Healers." That fuck just went to jail. :)
SQ> RS> But PrimeTime Live did him in *reeeal* good :)
SQ> Prime Time Live did an expose on W.V. Grant too? They hit Robert Tilton
SQ> REALLY hard, and I think he learned a few things from his
SQ> mistakes: He just survived a lawsuit against his ex-wife
SQ> where she claimed he was using monies from the "Word of
SQ> Faith" ministry for personal stuff (how SHOCKING). Guess
SQ> Bob learned to have a second set of books onhand, eh? :-/
Prime Time Live did Grant in in May/June 1996, from memory. I
saw it while I was in Dallas.
Rod "...praise Jesus, and burn an Al effigy" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Train stations are where trains stop, so workstations...
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Warring Christanic Facti
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:49:06
EID:323c 223d8e20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef1d12
* On 11-01-97 at 21:42, ED MILLS wrote to J.J. HITT,
on the topic of "Warring Christanic Factio" in echo Holysmoke:
EM> Bilabial Fricatives on 10 Jan 97, of J.J. Hitt/David Worrell, thus:
EM> JH> Full House Any comparison to Hitler or the Nazis.
EM> JH> Strait Flush Threats and curses. Includes the ever
EM> JH> popular "I'll pray for you."
EM> JH> Royal Flush "My hard drive crashed."
EM> JH> Five of a Kind I'm not at all sure, but we'll see one before
EM> JH> too much more time passes.
EM> Did you see where Rod "witty signoff quotes" Swift got some
EM> responses from the Mooth-O-Matic? I'd call that five of a kind.
Thanks :)
EM> Or Yahtzee, perhaps.
Oh, no... I landed on Free Parking :)
Rod "...wahhoooo!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Never attribute to malice that which stupidity explains
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Warring Christanic Facti
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:51:08
EID:5fb1 223d8e60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef1d8c
* On 12-01-97 at 15:17, J.J. HITT wrote to ED MILLS,
on the topic of "Warring Christanic Factio" in echo Holysmoke:
JH> On Jan 11 21:42 97, Ed Mills of 1:105/24.12 wrote:
JH> EM> Did you see where Rod "witty signoff quotes" Swift got some
JH> EM> responses from the Mooth-O-Matic? I'd call that five of a
JH> EM> kind.
JH> Yeah. I damned near shit my pants.
JH> And then in the same packet Leonard Bernier also replied to
JH> someone.
JH> The robots have started talking... it's gotta be the End Times.
Yep. Al's also getting nasty. That means we are truly waiting
for one more horseman of the apocalypse...
We've got
War: Leonard Bernier
Pestilence: Al Schroeder
Famine: George Mooth
We just need one more.
Rod "...any harpies here can help out, if they wish:)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Dyslexic agnostics don't know whether there is a dog!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Educational Experience
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:54:10
EID:0d03 223d8ec0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef1e42
* On 11-01-97 at 22:01, AL SCHROEDER wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "Educational Experience" in echo Holysmoke:
AS> RS> You make the assumption that Christians are deserving of being
AS> RS> recognised as human.
AS> RS> How silly of you, Jim.
AS> JS> I see. If not, then what? Why are you so bigoted against one segment
AS> JS> of society, Rod?
AS> Ahhhh, but you can't call it "bigotry," Jim. Despite the fact that
he
AS> often complains about bigoted treatment towards gays, Rod would doubtless
AS> be incensed to know he is doing THE EXACT SAME THING to another
AS> group...and just as mindlessly, just as prejudicially.
Sorry, but I have a legitimate concern that is quite logically
emulated into action.
It's nice to know you don't support equality, Al.
Rod "...so shove it right up your ass, Al" Swift
* OLX 2.1 TD * Save the whales. Collect the whole set!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 17:56:12
EID:0d59 223d8f00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef1ebc
* On 12-01-97 at 12:11, BECKE BOYER wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "OUR DAILY BREAD" in echo Holysmoke:
BB> Are my eyes deceiving me or did Mooth actually post something other
than
BB> canned spam? (Fresh spam, perhaps?)
Yes, he did. I've moved Mooth to speak.
My next target is for Al to leave.
I consider them as equally challenging.
Rod "...now working on target number 2" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Bugger me with a fish fork!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: My 5 Russian Weekends
|Date: 29 Jan 97 18:12:00
EID:ad23 223d9180
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef2270
* On 13-01-97 at 05:08, DAVID WORRELL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "My 5 Russian Weekends" in echo Holysmoke:
DW> 11 Jan 97 14:35, Katherine Wintersnight wrote to Rod Swift:
DW> RS>> This is just typical of the NORTH-SOUTH cultural divide of the
DW> RS>> world.
DW> The One, True South is the are bounded by the Mason-Dixon
DW> line on the north, the Mississippi River on the west, the
DW> Atlantic Ocean on the east, and the Gulf of Mexico on the
DW> south. All other "southern" areas are False South Scum. :)
But of course.
Rod "... thanks, you've cheered up my day after having Al
completely destroy it :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Found God? What, have you lost him *again*?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: John Musselwhite
|Sub: Smart ACLU Lawyers! 2/
|Date: 29 Jan 97 18:12:02
EID:8adc 223d9180
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef2272
* On 11-01-97 at 14:09, JOHN MUSSELWHITE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Smart ACLU Lawyers!" in echo Holysmoke:
JM> Hi Rod...
JM> On 06 Jan 97 22:52:44, Rod Swift penned the following to Laurie Appleton
JM> re: Smart ACLU Lawyers! 2/
JM> RS> You've just been debunked, many times...
JM> Thank you, Rod. That information has been filed away to bring
JM> out again next week in some other echo Laurie contaminates. I
JM> will be sure to include your credit.
I can provide the whole source files to you by email if you like.
Rod "...pleased to help you make Laurie spin!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Bigots: those who confuse personal tastes with morality
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Occam
|Date: 29 Jan 97 18:13:04
EID:5a65 223d91a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef22b0
* On 13-01-97 at 12:51, JOHN BRAWLEY wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Occam" in echo Holysmoke:
JB> RC> CJ> No doubt Ken Wiens would call him a logical positivist.
JB> RC> ROFL!
JB> RC> For this, you win a coupon book redeemable at:
JB> RC> John Brawley's Nonlocal House of Cheese
JB> RS> Do you get vouchers for pre-packaged and wrapped gift-whine?
JB> Even without comment from me for _weeks_, you guys keep this up.
JB> Y'all must be _really_ bored....
It's ok, John. You've got a reprieve as I go off to hunt a few
Al msgs down.
Rod "...*bang*" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Physicist: An atom's way of knowing about atoms!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Brawley's Bait Shop
|Date: 29 Jan 97 18:14:06
EID:34d6 223d91c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef22ee
* On 13-01-97 at 12:53, JOHN BRAWLEY wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Brawley's Bait Shop" in echo Holysmoke:
JB> RS> John Brawley's Quantum BSE-infected Butcher Shop :)
JB> Define "BSE," please?
Bovine S. Encephalitis, right? :) Mad-cow disease :)
Rod "... Mooo!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Windows isn't crippleware. It's functionally-challenged.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 18:15:08
EID:ec9a 223d91e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef232c
* On 14-01-97 at 08:46, GWENNY THE POOH wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GTP> GM>> You seem to have not noticed the question mark. But that's how
you
GTP> GM>> folks twist things isn't it?
GTP> RS> Arrrrgh! George Mooth SPEAKS! I made him speak! Woooowooowoooo!
GTP> RS> What prize do I win, fellow HolySmokers?
GTP> The usual prize I would offer seems a little inappropriate in your
case. GTP>> And it shows how ridiculous men can be. We women don't
GTP> GTP>> make such a fuss about lesbians. Maybe it's because
GTP> GTP>> 'normal' heteros know they can't be trusted, so they assume
GTP> GTP>> gay men can't. I can tell you that I'd trust a gay man to
GTP> GTP>> babysit my sons LOOOOONG before I'd trust a straight man to
GTP> GTP>> babysit my daughters.
GTP> RS> Thank you for that kind thought, dear Gwenny!
GTP> RS> [LoveCub shares the hunnypot *oog!* :)]
GTP> I mean it, Rod. My sons were molested by a hetero-Baptist
GTP> pedophile. They would have been much safer with a gay.
Well, I'll be happy to babysit if you ever need me and wish to
fly me 12,000km to be over there :) Thanks.
GTP> RS> Now, to the serious part. I wish to declare that I *have* slept
GTP> RS> with Scott Baird, but don't worry, I faked every orgasm...
GTP> RS> ... and he couldn't tell any different when I splattered warm
GTP> RS> gooey yoghurt on his back :) :) :)
GTP> You must have awesome equipment to have reached
GTP> all the way to the US.
Not really. I go to the US from time to time, remember?
GTP> RS> ... then again, neither did Maliethorn :) :) :) :)
GTP> Whatever happened to Maliethorn?
He self-exploded. Sorta like I wish someone else would, right
about now :)
Rod "...hehehehe" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Windows isn't crippleware. It's functionally-challenged.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 29 Jan 97 18:17:12
EID:9df5 223d9220
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef23a8
* On 14-01-97 at 08:58, GWENNY THE POOH wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
GTP> RS> They like to debase healthy pride and self-image because if they
can
GTP> RS> break you, that's the first step towards hopeless despair. Once
you
GTP> RS> have nothing but hopeless despair -- the give you the falseness
of
GTP> RS> Jesus. :(
GTP> True. I was holding out okay before the Mormons got their hands on
me.
GTP> Sunday after Sunday of being lectured about sin (and the
GTP> shame of not admitting I'd been molested because their
GTP> stand is that people are born into families they deserved
GTP> based on prelife behavior) drove me to suicide.
The good thing is that non-religious people care about your, not
your religious, health.
GTP> RS> I think that's why, Gwenny. Trojan-horse-esque isn't it?
GTP> Very.
It's such a shame. I wish for a world where religion is no
longer.
Rod "...and I hope that it comes soon" Swift.
* OLX 2.1 TD * Fundamentalist: (n) Ape-like creature with a Bible
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Gwenny: Truth or bear?
|Date: 29 Jan 97 18:18:14
EID:db7a 223d9240
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef23e6
* On 14-01-97 at 09:01, GWENNY THE POOH wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Gwenny: Truth or bear?" in echo Holysmoke:
GTP> RS> It was the conical bra, and the penguin in your movie "Gwenny:
GTP> RS> Truth or Bear" wasn't it? :)
GTP> I wonder how she wears that thing. It looks so uncomfortable.
Dunno. Maybe they really are shaped like that. Pity poor little
Lourdes :)
Rod "...ouch... Mom you poked my eye out!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't buy furs. It takes trees to make protest signs.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Execute Her ?
|Date: 29 Jan 97 18:19:16
EID:b0af 223d9260
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef2424
* On 14-01-97 at 09:02, GWENNY THE POOH wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Execute Her ?" in echo Holysmoke:
GTP> GTP>> If ya like Monte Python, we do about twelve hours of Monte Python
GTP> GTP>> movies every Yule. And there's only about fifty days until Yule.
GTP> RS> Oh my, I think I died and went to comedic heaven. BTW, that new
GTP> RS> movie with Cleese, Palin and Curtis in it looks good. :)
GTP> What's the title?? I'll check it out.
Fierce Creatures.
GTP> RS> So, when are Chris and I going to be travelling to Colorado for
GTP> RS> this fun-fest?
GTP> Every Yule. But if you were to show up some other time, we
GTP> could hold an impromptu party for ya.
Oh, ok. Can we burn effigies of a certain Christian who hangs
around and writes tomes?
Rod "...you work it out :(" Swift
* OLX 2.1 TD * Does killing time damage eternity?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: God: Biggest Abortionist
|Date: 29 Jan 97 18:20:18
EID:bf9b 223d9280
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef2462
* On 13-01-97 at 20:47, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "God: Biggest Abortionist" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> (Psa 139:13 NIV) For you created my inmost being; you knit me together
JS> JS> in my mother's womb.
JS> JS> The implication is clear.
JS> RS> Yes, isn't it. Every fertilised egg that does not gain uterine
JS> RS> wall implantation, and hence is aborted, is the fault of your
JS> RS> God.
JS> Fault of sinful man and his 'science'.
Strange. People who have never heard of science -- indigines --
suffer from similar failures in embryonic uterine implantation.
Why?
Rod "...your God is an abortionist, Jim" Swift
* OLX 2.1 TD * Only those who attempt the absurd achieve the impossible
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ask And Ye Shall Receive
|Date: 29 Jan 97 18:21:20
EID:c4b5 223d92a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef24a0
* On 13-01-97 at 20:48, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ask And Ye Shall Receive" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> Excuse me? Where do you get off that I, Brother Jimmy, am a
JS> JS> trouser-pilot?
JS> RS> The fact you hang out at biker bars, eh? :)
JS> Hey, big boy...if you believe that, then stride into your local Hell's
JS> Angels hangout and scream out in your high pitched lispy voice, 'You
JS> bunch of flaming faggots', and see what happens.
At least I have a tactical advantage should I ever want to come
up behind you and slowly garotte you. Namely that you don't know
the sound of my voice :)
JS> Breeder bitch.
I'm a breeder bitch?
hahahhaha :)
Rod "...you're a maroon, Jim" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Always Downward!
|Date: 29 Jan 97 18:28:22
EID:1383 223d9380
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef2646
* On 13-01-97 at 20:49, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Always Downward!" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> On 31-10-96 at 19:15, JIM STAAL wrote to MARTY LEIPZIG:
JS> JS> ML> Because, Kommerode Ivanova, you so richly deserve it.
JS> JS> Perhaps, but the Lovely Wilbur [tm] has done nothing to deserve
such
JS> JS> abuse.
JS> RS> She's involved with you. That's abuse enough!
JS> Evidence!?
It's self-evidentiary?
It says so in the bible?
And, of course, because you just are :)
Rod "...we love you Jim" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Found God? What, have you lost him *again*?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 29 Jan 97 18:38:26
EID:3b03 223d94c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef28a2
* On 13-01-97 at 20:59, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> GTP>JS> In any event, the greater the 'head knowledge', the great
the
JS> RS> threat of GTP>JS> pride over and and being puffed up. Check out
the
JS> RS> resident big shot, GTP>JS> Herr Leipzig if you do not wish to
take my
JS> RS> word for it.
JS> GTP> Why do people like you repeatedly mistake a healthy self-
JS> GTP> image for "pride" in it's destructive sense. Having pride
JS> GTP> is not evil. Acknowledging one's abilities is not a crime.
JS> GTP> . .except to those who have to acknowledge.
JS> RS> They like to debase healthy pride and self-image because if they
JS> RS> can break you, that's the first step towards hopeless despair.
JS> Describe this alleged 'healthy pride'?
Positive self-image, self-esteem, self-value, self-worth.
Rod "...don't you have any self-worth, Jim?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Bugger me with a fish fork!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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/10 3612/41
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 18:55:32
EID:c951 223d96e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef2ca4
* On 13-01-97 at 13:14, DAN CEPPA wrote to BECKE BOYER,
on the topic of "OUR DAILY BREAD" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> -> On 12 Jan 97 07:11:09, Becke Boyer got back to All
DC> BB> Are my eyes deceiving me or did Mooth actually post something other
DC> BB> than canned spam? (Fresh spam, perhaps?)
DC> It appears that he only responds to messages based on spammings
DC> that are more than 3 months old and the responder lives in
DC> Australia.
DC> In any event, Rod Swift has earned the honor(?) of being the second
DC> person Mooth has sent a direct message to.
Damn, I thought I was the first. I am now so upset I am not
George's first. I was so looking to popping his
sentient-post-cherry :)
Rod "...hehehee" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The best prophet of the future is the past
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 29 Jan 97 19:04:34
EID:c45c 223d9880
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef2ec2
* On 13-01-97 at 19:03, JIM STAAL wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "Oops, Caught Again" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> On (11 Jan 97) Fredric Rice wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> Gt> Remember how you were recently saying that Wild is a wife abuser?
JS> JS> Never said it.
JS> DC> Bull-fucking shit you didn't, you misogynistic bastard.
JS> js> Evidence???
JS> FR> See? You _are_ a Promisekeeper.
JS> Evidence?
You claimed you have attended two Promisekeepers' conferences.
You are a Promisekeeper, as far as I'm concerned. If you were
not, you would not return to their events.
Rod "...or are you admitting you're a born-again wife-basher?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Laugh and the world thinks you're an idiot
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Well, women?
|Date: 29 Jan 97 19:05:36
EID:b4fa 223d98a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef2f00
* On 13-01-97 at 19:05, JIM STAAL wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "Well, women?" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> FR> You are a Promisekeeper, mouthing off in hate.
JS> Hmmmm...wherein do you find hate in the 7 promises of the Promise
JS> Keepers [tm]?
In the same place that you can read:
"...to keep our families strong"
can you read the hate in":
"...to keep our race strong"
It is the Promisekeeper's "our way, or no way" xenophobic
supremacism that is hateful.
Rod "...of course, you don't see that, Jim" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Land rights for gay whales!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 19:18:40
EID:c951 223d9a40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef3210
* On 15-01-97 at 00:44, DAN CEPPA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> -> On 12 Jan 97 13:23:08, Rod Swift got back to George Mooth
DC> GM> You seem to have not noticed the question mark. But that's how
you
DC> RS> Arrrrgh! George Mooth SPEAKS! I made him speak! Woooowooowoooo!
DC> RS> What prize do I win, fellow HolySmokers?
DC> Probably one in the FAQ. However, you may just earn another
DC> if you get up to something looking like responding to a
DC> current message!
Ahh, shaddup, Dan. :) :) :)
I took a three-month absence from the echo for personal reasons.
I did, however, keep downloading packets, which I have been
working through. I am now about 7 days behind the date of this
download packet.
Rod "...so, now I have two FAQ mentions, Dan :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Hey fundie! Why can't your mind be as open as your mouth?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Get with it!
|Date: 29 Jan 97 19:22:42
EID:efe7 223d9ac0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef3302
* On 14-01-97 at 10:11, AL SCHROEDER wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Get with it!" in echo Holysmoke:
AS> MM> We love God becuase He has loved us first!
AS> RS> If He loves me, why does he never send flowers?
AS> RS> Rod "...answer that one!" Swift :)
AS> He did. He CREATED flowers. (Or rather, the laws and constants, the
AS> initial conditions that allowed flowers to evolve.)
Bull crap. Evidence, please.
Rod "...we want data, Al, damnit! :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Hey, Rocky, watch me pull a saviour out of this virgin!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 19:22:44
EID:d531 223d9ac0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef3304
* On 14-01-97 at 12:41, AL SCHROEDER wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
AS> RS> Arrrrgh! George Mooth SPEAKS! I made him speak! Woooowooowoooo!
AS> RS> What prize do I win, fellow HolySmokers?
AS> You have my awed respect.
No I don't. You've never had any respect for me, Al.
Rod "... and I have evidence of that fact" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * The Christian Right is neither
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Occam
|Date: 29 Jan 97 19:41:48
EID:7772 223d9d20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef377c
* On 14-01-97 at 14:01, DAVID WORRELL wrote to JOHN BRAWLEY,
on the topic of "Occam" in echo Holysmoke:
DW> 13 Jan 97 12:51, John Brawley wrote to Rod Swift:
DW> JB> On 04 Jan 97, Rod Swift wrote:
DW> RS>> On 30-09-96 at 23:29, ROBERT CURRY wrote to CURTIS JOHNSON:
DW> JB> Even without comment from me for _weeks_, you guys keep this up.
DW> JB> Y'all must be _really_ bored....
DW> Look at the date of the message he was replying to,
DW> shitferbrains. Rod lives in some kind of weird timewarp.
:) :) I was behind in my packets for three months. :)
Anyway, it's always good to have someone behind in an echo, just
to make sure the fun things don't get forgotten :) :)
DW> Stop whining, bait boy.
Amen!
Rod "...hehehee :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Diplomacy: The patriotic art of lying for one's country
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: Re: Baby In Critical Con
|Date: 29 Jan 97 19:42:50
EID:c552 223d9d40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef37ba
* On 12-01-97 at 12:00, JAN DEBOER wrote to AL SCHROEDER,
on the topic of "Re: Baby In Critical Cond" in echo Holysmoke:
JD> On 11 Jan 97 21:17:08 Al Schroeder wrote to Rod Swift...
JD> RS> On 02-10-96 at 00:04, AL SCHROEDER wrote to RONALD VASS:
JD> AS>
JD> AS> I think He did save the kid...eternally.
JD> SAVED...by drowning! Hey, Al, let's SAVE ALL the kids! we could
JD> have mass baptismal drownings at municipal and school swimming pools,
JD> and, HALELUJE, we'll save ALL THE KIDS!
JD> Praise Jeezuz!
Thank GOODNESS someone saw the same thing I criticised about Al's
jumping to the defense of his deity-construct.
Rod "...because, honestly, it didn't make sense" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Velcronomicon: A magick book that sticks with you
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: For your quote file :)
|Date: 29 Jan 97 19:42:52
EID:62d2 223d9d40
GMD: 1:396/1
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef37bc
This message was from JAN DEBOER to AL SCHROEDER,
and was forwarded to you by ROD SWIFT.
-------------------------
On 11 Jan 97 21:17:08 Al Schroeder wrote to Rod Swift...
RS> On 02-10-96 at 00:04, AL SCHROEDER wrote to RONALD VASS:
AS>
AS> I think He did save the kid...eternally.
SAVED...by drowning! Hey, Al, let's SAVE ALL the kids! we could
have mass baptismal drownings at municipal and school swimming pools,
and, HALELUJE, we'll save ALL THE KIDS!
Praise Jeezuz!
-=JDB=-
___ wsOMR v1.20b [UNREG]
* Origin: Aurora Exploratoria, Newcastle ON Canada (1:229/622)
* OLX 2.1 TD * At least I never misplaced the Deltivid asteroid belt - Q
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Rob Burcham
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 19:43:54
EID:7d5b 223d9d60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef37fa
* On 13-01-97 at 21:15, ROB BURCHAM wrote to GEORGE MOOTH,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
RB> GM> GM> IMPOSSIBLE TO CHANGE?
RB> GM>
RB> GM> RS>Yep, there's a word for that. Immutability.
RB> GM>
RB> GM> You seem to have not noticed the question mark. But that's how
you
RB> GM> folks twist things isn't it?
RB> Mooth speaks!!! All hail Mr Swift as the man who moved Mooth!
Thanks, Rob. My aim is to please :) :)
Rod "...and my aim is very good :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Diplomacy: Saying "nice doggy" until you can find a rock
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: Re: Our Daily Ejaculatio
|Date: 29 Jan 97 19:44:56
EID:5b43 223d9d80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef3838
* On 12-01-97 at 12:30, QUENTIN FAI wrote to GEORGE MOOTH,
on the topic of "Re: Our Daily Ejaculation" in echo Holysmoke:
QF> While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt George utter:
QF> RS>>So you're saying Jerkers For Jesus should disband?
QF> GM> You seem to have a fixation on masterbation. But then I dont't
QF> GM> suppose many women want to get to close to you, eh?
QF> No... But that's because he's gay.
Shhhhh! Let him continue to be deluded, Quentybabe! :)
Rod "...it'll be so much more fun!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * When in trouble or in doubt, run around, scream & shout!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: Cracker Barrel Boycot
|Date: 29 Jan 97 19:48:58
EID:a3d6 223d9e00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef392a
* On 14-01-97 at 17:45, JAN DEBOER wrote to BECKE BOYER,
on the topic of "CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT" in echo Holysmoke:
JD> bb> Reminds me of a used car dealership called "Car Circus" that
JD> bb> we have here in Harrisburg. The sign changes weekly--I believe
JD> bb> last weeks was "Jesus is Lord". ;)
JD> Lord who?
JD> Do they give a free 'Gawd is my co-pilot' bumper sticker with a car
JD> purchase?
Rod "God is my co-pilot. The pilot's brain-dead" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Does killing time damage eternity?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Our Daily Ejaculation
|Date: 29 Jan 97 19:49:00
EID:6b5e 223d9e20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef392c
* On 15-01-97 at 01:10, KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT wrote to GEORGE MOOTH,
on the topic of "Our Daily Ejaculation" in echo Holysmoke:
KW> GM>GM> WE ARE SAVED NOT BY WHAT WE DO
KW> GM>GM> BUT BY WHAT CHRIST HAS DONE.
KW> GM>RS>So you're saying Jerkers For Jesus should disband?
KW> GM>You seem to have a fixation on masterbation. But then I dont't
KW> GM>suppose many women want to get to close to you, eh?
KW> Are you really this dense?
He probably wants to date me, Katherine :) :)
Rod "...bwahahah!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Laugh and the world thinks you're an idiot
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Styx Allum
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 19:54:02
EID:209c 223d9ec0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef3a5a
* On 14-01-97 at 20:03, STYX ALLUM wrote to GEORGE MOOTH,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
SA> > gmooth@sprynet.com
SA> > * 1st 2.00 #1855 + God's baud rate is ..
SA> Zero. UART to know that it would first have to exist.
:) :) Nice to know he gave us his direct e-mail :)
SA> The traditional quote is that your God's baud rate is infinity.
SA> That would follow; bearing in mind that people could wait for
SA> an eternity without ever seeing a BIT of viable data which would
SA> indicate that there is any other message being transmitted...
SA> than that s/he/it isn't there.
ROFL! :) I wonder if he will reply to your conjecture, Styx?
SA> BTW - I have always considered your daily posts here to be nothing
SA> more than propagandic litter being cast upon the grounds of our holy
SA> forum. It's reassuring to know that we can now laugh at the litterbug
SA> instead of just the litter.
DOUBLE ROFL AND DOWN THE STAIRS! :)
Rod "...we can all appreciate the mindless litterbug now :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * And God said: E = +mv} - Ze}/r... and there *was* light!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 19:55:04
EID:e54f 223d9ee0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef3a98
* On 16-01-97 at 00:59, STEVE QUARRELLA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
SQ> Salue, Rod!
SQ> GM>> You seem to have not noticed the question mark. But that's how
you
SQ> RS>> Arrrrgh! George Mooth SPEAKS! I made him speak! Woooowooowoooo!
SQ> RS>> What prize do I win, fellow HolySmokers?
SQ> I thought that we'd have to send someone out to defecate on
SQ> his car's windscreen to get him to open his yap. :)
No no no! I thought that we'd have to send someone to defecate
in his yap to open his car's windscreen! :) :)
Oh, on second thoughts, you probably do have it right.
Rod "...ROFL!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * I wanted to be born again but my mother said: "No!"
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Barry Griefer
|Sub: Gay Marriage?
|Date: 29 Jan 97 20:04:06
EID:af6f 223da080
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef3cb6
* On 16-01-97 at 18:22, BARRY GRIEFER wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Gay Marriage?" in echo Holysmoke:
BG> Hello Rod!
BG> On (11 Jan 97) Rod Swift wrote to Barry Griefer...
BG> RS> On 22-10-96 at 21:55, BARRY GRIEFER wrote to ALL:
BG> BG> The laws are obviously on Christian belief. So what does
BG> BG> the state have to get into it for? Hetero marriage, that
BG> BG> is.
BG> RS> Marriage is a secular institution under the law, not a religious
one.
BG> Legally, you are absolutely correct. But, do you just wipe
BG> the religious origins of the law and the reasons and
BG> justifications for the state meddling in the private
BG> relationship between two people.
The religious origins of the law are not under threat from the
legal amendment of the law to broaden it's application and expand
religious freedoms.
BG> Better all laws relating to marriage be wiped off the books.
No, in fact, it is not. It is much better to understand that
marriage laws are dynamic, and always *have* been. Only 30 years
ago, some people in the US couldn't marry each other due to their
racial differences.
BG> RS> We don't want "roughly the same". We want "the same".
BG> And, I would say to you that a longterm monogamous gay
BG> relationship is only "roughly the same" as marriage.
Were you making an argument in support of my four-year-long
bi-national monogamous relationship, or one to state that the
marriage laws should be amended to annul a marriage on the case
of proven adultery *automatically*.
BG> BG> Benefits, inheritance, insurance, tax deductions?
BG> RS> Survivorship, legal-next-of-kin, immigration.
BG> All but immigration can be dealt with, without benefit of
BG> government meddling.
Actually, immigration can also be granted with "government
meddling".
However, given that marriage is determined by 52 different
legislative bodies (50 states, a district, and the federal
government) and because marriage rights cover hundreds of
statutes, it would take tens of thousands of legislative hours to
amend every act of government to accord equality to same-gender
relationships on an individual statute-by-statute basis.
Further, the status is not portable across all the states -- any
rights granted would be invalidated by crossing a state boundary.
Surely, if the intent of you is to grant all rights of married
couples derived from marriage status to gay people, why not just
allow gay people to marry?
It would also be more portable, and not be invalidated by state
boundaries. It solves the problem of inequality before the law,
and sex-discrimination.
Also, it's been ruled that it's the law, unless Hawaii can prove
otherwise -- there will be no barrier to same-gender marriages in
that state.
The states of WASHINGTON, NEBRASKA and OREGON have bills before
them to legalise same-gender marriages, at this point...
BG> I'm not sure there is any compelling
BG> reason for government to accord relatives of immigrants any
BG> special treatment, humanitarian reasons excepted. Nobody is
BG> compelled to come to this country. There's probably plenty
BG> of single potential immigrants to meet our needs.
I cannot live with my partner. We have been in a relationship
for four years. We live 12,000km apart. What is your solution
to the problem that we have. If we were heterosexual, we could
marry, and be afforded conditional US immigration rights.
Rod "...well?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Can I put my Sharp in your mainframe on the desktop?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Pussy little satanist
|Date: 29 Jan 97 20:04:08
EID:8b14 223da080
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef3cb8
* On 16-01-97 at 17:54, KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Pussy little satanist" in echo Holysmoke:
KW> RS>KW> NR>Like I said, I HATE FAGGOTS!! If one ever "advanced" on
KW> RS>KW> NR>me he would be beaten
KW> RS>KW> NR>into oblivion, mercilessly.
KW> RS>KW> NR>Maliethorn
KW> RS>KW> In other words, you got turned down at the glory hole.
KW> RS>I want to know how innocent, sweet, dear, and innocent
KW> RS>heterosexuals find out about such things :) :)
KW> Find one and ask hir.
But of course >:)
Rod "...*snugs*!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Easter is cancelled this year. They've found the body.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 29 Jan 97 20:05:10
EID:ffc1 223da0a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32ef3cf6
* On 17-01-97 at 16:16, SUE ALEXANDER wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
SA> GM> You seem to have not noticed the question mark. But that's how
you
SA> GM> folks twist things isn't it?
SA> RS> Arrrrgh! George Mooth SPEAKS! I made him speak! Woooowooowoooo!
SA> RS> What prize do I win, fellow HolySmokers?
SA> Congratulations on the achievement, but I must tell you that it
has
SA> happened before. Right here, in fact. I think he just wanted to let
us
SA> all wait in antici...pation of this very rare sighting. Me, I'd rather
SA> be burning (ah, make that baking) cookies. ;)
Who got his scalp last time?
Rod "...praise Jesus, and pass the tomahawk!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Save the whales. Collect the whole set!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: Return
|Date: 31 Jan 97 09:07:00
EID:709d 223f48e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f145b4
* On 15-01-97 at 03:29, CURTIS JOHNSON wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Return" in echo Holysmoke:
CJ> Anyhow, the BBS did finally get in the 2800 messages that
CJ> had been in HOLYSMOKE since the problem with its lines. I skimmed
CJ> through them, and will be trickling in my replies. But it looks
CJ> like some things never change: one purely personal flame war has
CJ> been replaced by another one, Rod Swift still hasn't worked his
CJ> way through backlog of messages, Al Schroeder is *still* whining
CJ> about the Robert Curry's supposed e-mail "abuse," and we're still
CJ> getting spammed by Leonard Bernier and Geor--
CJ> GEORGE SMOOTH REPLIED TO A MESSAGE?!?!
Yes, wasn't it great. And may I ask *what* backlog? :)
At least we're still getting Al's tomes :)
CJ> Could this be the miracle that would make the unbelievers
CJ> believe?
No.... :) :) But I am attempting to elicit more responses from
him :) :)
CJ> Hmmmmm. . . Clarke did say that January 12, 1997, was when
CJ> HAL first spoke . . .
I love it. Mooth gets a real voice only one week prior to HAL :)
Rod "...maybe this is the proof we need that Mooth is an AI
program :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Rutabaga: Lord of the vegies
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Warring Christanic Facti
|Date: 31 Jan 97 09:09:02
EID:323c 223f4920
GMD: 1:396/1
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f1462e
* On 14-01-97 at 22:44, ED MILLS wrote to AL SCHROEDER,
on the topic of "Warring Christanic Factio" in echo Holysmoke:
EM> Bilabial Fricatives on 13 Jan 97, of Al Schroeder/Ed Mills, thus:
EM> JH> Five of a Kind I'm not at all sure, but we'll see one before
EM> JH> too much more time passes.
EM> EM> Did you see where Rod "witty signoff quotes" Swift got some
EM> EM> responses from the Mooth-O-Matic? I'd call that five of a
EM> EM> kind.
EM> EM> Or Yahtzee, perhaps.
EM> AS> Yep. You could have knocked me over with a feather when Mooth
EM> AS> responded. With his email address, yet! After all the spamming
he's
EM> AS> done us...hmmmm. No, such thoughts are unChristian.
EM> AS> Sic 'em, guys.
EM> AS> (Pay attention, Leipzig and Goldberg...this IS the start of
a
EM> AS> Schroederian conspiracy.)
EM> An e-mail address? I missed that, and deleted old mail already.
EM> Drat!
EM> edweird
It's gmooth@sprynet.com
===========================================================================
* On 04-01-97 at 12:30, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> TO BREAK SIN'S GRIP,
GM> PUT YOURSELF IN GOD'S HANDS.
RS>Why not read facts, and realise that sin is stupid?
That's my question to you- why not read the facts and see that sin is
stupid? I'm sure you don't want to act stupid on purpose.
= Geo =
gmooth@sprynet.com
* 1st 2.00 #1855 + God's baud rate is ..
___ PCBoard (R) v15.21/10
* Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
===========================================================================
* OLX 2.1 TD * When in trouble or in doubt, run around, scream & shout!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Our Daily Modest Proposa
|Date: 31 Jan 97 09:10:04
EID:07be 223f4940
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f1466c
* On 15-01-97 at 06:04, J.J. HITT wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Modest Proposal" in echo Holysmoke:
JH> ALSO: the original Live Mooth message contained an email address.
JH> If anyone still has that message PLEASE POST THAT ADDRESS!
JH> I propose that from this time forward every user who feels so
JH> inclined should return each and every Daily Bread posting to that
JH> address.
Go for it...
gmooth@sprynet.com
* OLX 2.1 TD * Today's topic: Life is good if you're happy. Refute.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa/Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Re: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 31 Jan 97 09:12:06
EID:9f29 223f4980
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f146e6
* On 17-01-97 at 03:54, DAN CEPPA wrote to BECKE BOYER,
on the topic of "RE: OUR DAILY BREAD" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> -> On 16 Jan 97 09:37:13, Becke Boyer got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> DC> In any event, Rod Swift has earned the honor(?) of being the second
DC> DC> person Mooth has sent a direct message to.
DC> BB> Who was the first?
DC> Not quite sure, but I think it may have been to Judith Bandsma.
Judith, eh? I'm sure Judith would remember if she has elicited a
response from Mooseboy! :)
Rod "...what ye say, Judith?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't buy furs. It takes trees to make protest signs.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Stupid Staal Fiascoes
|Date: 31 Jan 97 09:16:08
EID:bc61 223f4a00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f147d8
* On 15-01-97 at 17:58, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Stupid Staal Fiascoes" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> dc> Any and all Stupid Staal Fiasco Messages will be saved. Comments
FR> dc> on them will we tallied and the the one with the most votes
FR> dc> will be declared the winner.
FR> Oh! Oh! Pick me! Pick me! I got some!
FR> I am condemning no one. The homosexual who sexually practices
FR> his homosexuality condemns himself." - Jim Staal
...but he's not anti-gay.... :)
FR> "I have less tolerance for pagan women because they seem
FR> to particularly lack respect for men and thereby depart
FR> from God even further than do pagan men." - Jim Staal
...but he's not anti-pagan.... :)
FR> I must say you must live on a pink cloud to have let yourself been
FR> deluded by these women. Their general purpose here has been clear
to
FR> me from the beginning: they hate men in general, and Christian
men
FR> in particular. - Jim Staal (Promise Keeper) HolySmoke, December
1996
...but he's not anti-women.... :)
FR> ...there is no life on other planets. If there were, the Bible
FR> would have mentioned it. - Jim Staal (he's serious, by the way)
...but he's not anti-alien.... :)
FR> Bathroom Staal continues to be one of the most evil and
FR> filthy participants ever to grace us with his lunacy.
Bathroom Staal. Is that like 'Toilet Duck'? :)
Rod "...we should work it out, I think" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Death: to stop sinning suddenly
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 31 Jan 97 09:18:10
EID:b6b2 223f4a40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f14852
* On 15-01-97 at 21:00, FREDRIC RICE wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "Oops, Caught Again" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> ijs> Sir, for one who knows not the difference between 'insist'
FR> ijs> and 'demand' you are really one to talk. How could two
FR> ijs> brothers be so frigging different? David is a cool dude
FR> ijs> and you...you are a pompous ass.
FR> You are a woman-hating homophobic bigot who never had a chance.
... oh, I think he could have had a chance, Fredric. I get great
pleasure of offering to boink a few of my Christian enemies just
to prove that I'm an Equal Opportunity Boinker(tm). :)
FR> Life didn't hand you the intelligence needed to
FR> escape Christianity and I can understand and pity you that.
I pity him for the ignorance that blinds him.
FR> I won't pity you for your hatred of homosexuals, women
FR> Jews and blacks, however. You don't deserve pity for that.
I believe the words 'condemnation' and 'debunk' come to mind.
Rod "...praise Jesus, and pass the flamethrower" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves! Krishna invests! Cthulhu forcloses!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution
|Date: 31 Jan 97 09:23:12
EID:c543 223f4ae0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f14980
* On 17-01-97 at 09:42, DAVID RICE wrote to AL SCHROEDER,
on the topic of "Bacteria and Evolution" in echo Holysmoke:
DR> -=> Quoting Al Schroeder <=-
DR> AS> I find it more comforting to have a God[sic] who
DR> AS> doesn't CARE if you did good or bad...if you ask
DR> AS> for forgiveness.
DR> That's very evil of you.
But that's how Hitler is up there with Jesus, remember?
Christianity harbours and encourages evil behaviour among its
inherents. Evil behaviour that the adherents believe they will
be forgiven for *PRIOR* to their acts.
If it were an honest religion, it would offer no salvation for
pre-meditated evil acts.
Rod "...don't you agree, David?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Easter is cancelled this year. They've found the body.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution
|Date: 31 Jan 97 10:30:14
EID:c543 223f53c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f15936
* On 17-01-97 at 09:42, DAVID RICE wrote to AL SCHROEDER,
on the topic of "Bacteria and Evolution" in echo Holysmoke:
DR> -=> Quoting Al Schroeder <=-
DR> AS> I find it more comforting to have a God[sic] who
DR> AS> doesn't CARE if you did good or bad...if you ask
DR> AS> for forgiveness.
DR> That's very evil of you.
Of course, someone should point out Exodus 34:7...
Or Exodus 20:5, Numbers 14:18, or Deuteronomy 5:9...
:) :) God certainly *does* care NOT ONLY if you do good or bad,
but whether your direct ascendants in your family to three or four
generations were ever good or bad...
Al probably would prefer us not to consider this in his "love
love love" God.
Exodus 34:7 -- I keep my promise for thousands of generations
and forgive evil and sin; BUT I WILL NOT FAIL TO
PUNISH CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN TO THE THIRD AND
FOURTH GENERATION FOR THE SINS OF THEIR PARENTS.
Exodus 20:5 -- Do not bow down to any idol or worship it,
because I am the Lord your God and I tolerate no
rivals. I BRING PUNISHMENT ON THOSE WHO HATE ME
AND ON THEIR DESCENDANTS DOWN TO THE THIRD AND
FOURTH GENERATIONS.
Numbers 14:18 -- I, the Lord, am not easily angered, and I
show great love and faithfulness and forgive sin
and rebellion. YET I WILL NOT FAIL TO PUNISH
CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN TO THE THIRD AND
FOURTH GENERATION FOR THE SINS OF THEIR PARENTS.
Deuteronomy 5:9 -- Do not bow down to any idol or worship it,
for I am the Lord your God and I tolerate no
rivals. I BRING PUNISHMENT ON THOSE WHO HATE ME
AND ON THEIR DESCENDANTS DOWN TO THE THIRD AND
FOURTH GENERATIONS.
I could be as so cruel to suggest that he should start looking at
his God critically over his God's punishment of his children, but
I'm sure a WOA would love to do so for me.
Rod "...praise Jesus, and pass the condemnation" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Easter is cancelled this year. They've found the body.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Free Willy
|Date: 31 Jan 97 11:28:16
EID:d654 223f5b80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f166d0
* On 15-01-97 at 11:44, DOMINO wrote to JAN DEBOER,
on the topic of "Free Willy" in echo Holysmoke:
DO> Jan, having seen Domino during his little streak, remarked:
DO> D> Dan and I were speaking of the Bible; it says the Christian God
DO> D> *does* know everything, including what youre going to do next. But
DO> D> , it doesnt say he's going to stop you from anything.
DO> Jd> Logically, there can be no such thing as free will under an
DO> Jd> all-knowing creator. Better and more eloquent minds than
DO> Jd> mine explained why long ago, yet the religious continue to
DO> Jd> foist this duplicity on those they perceive as gullible
DO> Jd> enough to accept it.
DO> That's *IF* the Christian god exists. As of yet, no form of deity has
been
DO> evidenced outside the human mind.
I agree, Domino. BTW, Fred, I think this one's worthy of your
quote file...
Rod "...aye, it be" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Why fantasize when there are hamsters and duct tape?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Why do you NEED to be ig
|Date: 31 Jan 97 11:43:18
EID:851c 223f5d60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f16a56
* On 15-01-97 at 19:08, FREDRIC RICE wrote to STEVE HAYES,
on the topic of "Why do you NEED to be ign" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> ~*~ Die and fry! You and your scum sucking in-bred brother, furd.
FR> - Jim Staal (Defending his homophobia in HolySmoke)
Oh, Fred, but he's not an anti-gay bigot... Oh no! :)
Rod "... he even says I have a fairy ass and listhsp" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Accept Jesus as my Saviour? Why, that'd be selfish!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Al's deliberate delusion
|Date: 31 Jan 97 11:44:20
EID:8b19 223f5d80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f16a94
* On 15-01-97 at 19:22, FREDRIC RICE wrote to AL SCHROEDER,
on the topic of "Al's deliberate delusions" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> The quotes are pseudo-randomly selected, you ignorant death cult fundy.
The
FR> source code is available here as QUOTES.ZIP -- there is no
FR> facility for selecting quotes for particular messages.
I hope that it is available from the webpage on a
regularly-updated (say, monthly) basis :)
Rod "...thanks Fredric" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Commit the oldest sins the newest kind of ways
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Al's sick religion
|Date: 31 Jan 97 11:48:22
EID:cbe6 223f5e00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f16b86
* On 15-01-97 at 19:48, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROBERT CURRY,
on the topic of "Al's sick religion" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> rc> BTW, where is Jesus when little children are raped
FR> rc> right before his allegedly all-seeing eyes?
FR> Well, see, it's the fault of the children. They shouldn't
FR> allow Christian priests to rape them.
Soon, Christians will be claiming children ask for it, and
deliberately lead clergy astray as a justification for their
padophilia.
Rod "...they are *sick*" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves, passes to Moses. He shoots. He scores!!!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Christ-Like / Contradict
|Date: 31 Jan 97 12:01:24
EID:0102 223f6020
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f16e94
* On 15-01-97 at 20:18, FREDRIC RICE wrote to DOMINO,
on the topic of "Christ-Like / Contradicti" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> dom> I'm not a Christian, but the Bible *does* say we have free will.
FR> And contradicts that claim repeatedly.
Agreed 100%, Fredric.
Free will has always been, and will always be, contradictory to
the intent of the Christian faith -- mental enslavery to
a non-existent deity construct.
Rod "...that's the real truth :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Borg Express -- don't be assimilated without it!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Blast from the past
|Date: 31 Jan 97 12:05:26
EID:34ce 223f60a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f16f86
* On 15-01-97 at 21:24, FREDRIC RICE wrote to QUENTIN FAI,
on the topic of "Blast from the past" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> FR> But the fact that the disciples all saw and ate and
FR> FR> touched Jesus is important. - Al Schroeder
FR> FR> Christanic cannibalism. Disgusting!
FR> qf> Sounds like a homoerotic act to me.
FR> I seriously doubt whether any homo would want someone like Al.
I agree 100000000000000000000000000000000000000%
Rod "...and that's no exaggeration" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Today's topic: The impact of pig's wings on lingustics
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Christian Hedemark
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 31 Jan 97 12:08:28
EID:2df3 223f6100
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f1703c
* On 14-01-97 at 06:43, CHRISTIAN HEDEMARK wrote to DAN CEPPA,
on the topic of "Hypocritical people" in echo Holysmoke:
CH> Dan,
CH> God loves you.
Evidence?
Rod "...you work it out" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Only those who attempt the absurd achieve the impossible
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Curtis Johnson
|Sub: bold-faced liar
|Date: 31 Jan 97 12:11:30
EID:b57b 223f6160
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f170f2
* On 15-01-97 at 07:20, CURTIS JOHNSON wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "bold-faced liar" in echo Holysmoke:
CJ> Jim Staal, who just said that executing a Christian for
CJ> disagreement over the Trinity is "a good indication that one is
CJ> currently totally in touch with the will of God."
CJ> Incredible.
Indeed. I wonder what he wants to do to homo-faggots and
femo-nartzees :)
Rod "...ahahahaha" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Death: to stop sinning suddenly
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Just say NO!
|Date: 31 Jan 97 12:14:32
EID:8b2d 223f61c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f171a8
* On 16-01-97 at 09:47, GWENNY THE POOH wrote to AL SCHROEDER,
on the topic of "Just say NO!" in echo Holysmoke:
GTP> And I am Freya's earthly representative for my hearth.
GTP> I expect to see some good "sucking" up. ROFL
... and if he doesn't you'll slay him??? ahahahaha
Rod "...not worth your time, dear!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * If Jesus is Jewish, why does he have a Spanish name?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Gwenny The Pooh
|Sub: Am I getting through?
|Date: 31 Jan 97 12:15:34
EID:9ae7 223f61e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f171e6
* On 17-01-97 at 09:21, GWENNY THE POOH wrote to JIM STEINGROBE,
on the topic of "Am I getting through?" in echo Holysmoke:
GP> JS> WEll, I was able to log onto this bbs via the internet. Now
I just
GP> JS> have to see if this works and all. I hope to be a blessing to all
of you
GP> JS> out there since I know many of you could use a blessing. :) See
ya all
GP> JS> around hopefully.
GTP> STEINY!!!!!!!! Welcome to Hell, dear.
Oi! Hands off my love slave :)
Rod "...now...Steiny, worship me!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Windows isn't crippleware. It's functionally-challenged.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Holiday Books
|Date: 31 Jan 97 12:16:36
EID:419a 223f6200
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f17224
* On 15-01-97 at 05:55, J.J. HITT wrote to JAN DEBOER,
on the topic of "HOLIDAY BOOKS" in echo Holysmoke:
JH> On Jan 14 18:14 97, Jan deBoer of 1:229/622 wrote:
JH> Jd> You take that machine, and sell it. Send the twenty to Oral
JH> Jd> Roberts. In no time, you'll be rewarded with a thousand
JH> Jd> Pentiums.
JH> Ha! Anyone who sees 900 foot tall Jesuses has to be a Mac user.
I'm tempted to post my message about Mr Roberts, now.
Rod "...digging through archives" Swift
* OLX 2.1 TD * Atheism: A non-prophet organisation
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Holysmoke convention
|Date: 31 Jan 97 12:19:38
EID:75c2 223f6260
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f172da
* On 15-01-97 at 18:27, KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "Holysmoke convention" in echo Holysmoke:
KW> FR>We're going to find out just how many naked pagans can fit in a Las
Vegas
KW> FR>hotel room. Cool.
KW> We'll admit naked atheists, too. ;)
I don't get naked, m'dear :)
Rod "...but that's for the benefit of *OTHERS*, not I :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Dyslexic agnostics don't know whether there is a dog!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: more babbling email
|Date: 31 Jan 97 12:30:40
EID:d3d2 223f63c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f17570
* On 15-01-97 at 11:33, ROBERT CURRY wrote to AL SCHROEDER,
on the topic of "more babbling email" in echo Holysmoke:
RC> AS> Or "I do defend Worrell's right to do whatever he wants with
RC> AS> private email sent to him." Either would be fine.
RC> Certainly either would suit your purpose of sticking your nose into
RC> other people's shit and rubbing it around for your mere pleasure.
But of course. Does Al have any other purpose in his life?
Come to think of it, does Al have any other purpose in another
person's life? :)
RC> AS> The two are not comparable, because of course there is no
RC> AS> (nor do I expect) apology from you.
RC> It takes someone of your particular brand of unmitigated gall to
RC> suggest an apology is needed for doing what was appropriate.
I'm 100% agreed with you, Robert.
RC> You have no choice but to deal with it.
...or whine interminably. Guess which one will be more likely?
Rod "...*wahhhhhhhhhhhhh*" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The real world is a special case
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: whining Al
|Date: 31 Jan 97 12:32:42
EID:19fe 223f6400
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f175ea
* On 15-01-97 at 11:33, ROBERT CURRY wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "whining Al" in echo Holysmoke:
RC> RC> Those who send long, boring rehashes of their public posts,
RC> RC> as you did, Al, have no cause to complain if their rehashes
RC> RC> are returned to the echo whence they originated to begin with.
RC> AS> Keep justifying it to yourself, Robert. Maybe you will eventually
RC> AS> believe it.
RC> Behold the hurt puppydog!
Behold, it's the same act when the poor puppy shat on the carpet
in the Rice household :)
Rod "...someone smacked his nose for doing is dirty business
then, and someone should do it now, so puppy learns" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Necrotelecomnicon: Book of dead phone numbers
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: He Come de Judge
|Date: 31 Jan 97 12:36:44
EID:c835 223f6480
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f176dc
* On 16-01-97 at 11:31, ROBERT CURRY wrote to LYNDA BUSTILLOZ,
on the topic of "He Come de Judge" in echo Holysmoke:
RC> with: Al Schroeder
RC> AS> The Dark Ages would have happened, with or without Christianity.
RC> LB> And by what crystal ball are you divining THAT assertion?
RC> Because he says so. Isn't that enough?
Of course it is. Let me reapply that principle to some other
areas and examples:
"The Crusades would have happened, with or without Christianity".
Yep, Al's unevidenced argument is delusional.
Rod "The Rapture WILL NOT happen, with or without Christianity" :) Swift
:)
* OLX 2.1 TD * A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: cost
|Date: 31 Jan 97 12:39:46
EID:a2ae 223f64e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f17792
* On 16-01-97 at 16:03, ROBERT CURRY wrote to AL SCHROEDER,
on the topic of "cost" in echo Holysmoke:
RC> AS> how often do you replace yours?
RC> Do you mean a teddy bear or a god? The last time I saw the former
RC> was when I had my tonsils removed (about age six or seven). The latter
RC> I collect by the dozens as an amusing hobby.
Ooog. Another Convention Event... Teddy displays :)
Rod "...I'll bring mine!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus Christ Super Fraud. The Musical!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Starfire
|Sub: Hello
|Date: 31 Jan 97 12:43:48
EID:bad4 223f6560
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f17884
* On 14-01-97 at 17:57, STARFIRE wrote to DAN CEPPA,
on the topic of "Hello" in echo Holysmoke:
ST> DC> So, will the real Starfire and/or Gwenny the Pooh figure out what
ST> DC> you/they are doing and get back to us and stop talking to yourself
or
ST> DC> selves.
ST> We aren't real we are pigments of your imagination.
Oh, and I thought God Dan had a vision problem -- apparently he's
been colour mind all along.
Rod "...one good mistake deserves a-punner" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Teeth : Array [1..32] of Byte;
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Native Americans
|Date: 31 Jan 97 13:28:50
EID:4a35 223f6b80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f18312
* On 16-01-97 at 03:40, DAVID WORRELL wrote to STEVE QUARRELLA,
on the topic of "Native Americans" in echo Holysmoke:
DW> 15 Jan 97 18:23, Steve Quarrella wrote to Tiger Eyes:
DW> SQ> PPS: I am not ignorant, affiliated with the Nazi party, bald,
or
DW> SQ> interested in relations with my mother.
DW> But you've got a small dick, right? :)
I thought the only thing we could deduce from Steve's post was
that he was disqualified from Christian Right-Wing Militia
membership :)
Rod
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't believe in miracles, expect them
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Darkness
|Date: 31 Jan 97 13:30:52
EID:8413 223f6bc0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f1838c
* On 17-01-97 at 14:02, DAVID WORRELL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Darkness" in echo Holysmoke:
DW> 13 Jan 97 22:32, Rod Swift wrote to David Worrell:
DW> DW>> Did you ever see _Pulp Fiction_?
DW> RS> I saw it once. The scene with the leather sex reminds me of what
DW> RS> may happen to our milkcrated one at the leather biker bar :) :)
DW> Exactly.
:) :) But he'd probably enjoy it :)
Rod "...eh?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Diplomacy: The patriotic art of lying for one's country
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Feeble human cattle
|Date: 31 Jan 97 13:30:54
EID:81db 223f6bc0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f1838e
* On 15-01-97 at 17:30, MARTIN GOLDBERG wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Feeble human cattle" in echo Holysmoke:
MG> RS> My partner and I have just got to get together with the famous
MG> RS> Glodbreg and all three of us can meet John Harvath together :)
MG> Havrath is long gone (the message youquoted is MONTHS old).
MG> I find that when push comes to shove, the boys that want
MG> to get overly feisty don't want to do it in person. I
MG> never had one meet me down at DFW airport yet.
I'm sure you will receive an invite to my next arrival there, but
for peaceful purposes ;)
Rod "...because allies should never be violent :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves, passes to Moses. He shoots. He scores!!!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Legislating Morality
|Date: 31 Jan 97 13:31:56
EID:def9 223f6be0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f183cc
* On 19-01-97 at 07:25, MARILYN BURGE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Legislating Morality" in echo Holysmoke:
MB> RS> The bill the Republicans passed, and Clinton signed, breaches
MB> RS> that constitutionally-enforced full-faith-and-credit requirement
MB> RS> upon the states.
MB> And, is clearly unconstitutional because it attempts to nullify
MB> a portion of the U.S. Constitution.
... but that is all Congress does -- pass new laws to keep the
lawyers employed :)
Rod "... a lot of them are ex-lawyers :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't believe in miracles, expect them
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: All
|Sub: creation
|Date: 31 Jan 97 13:39:00
EID:edc4 223f6ce0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f18574
* On 19-01-97 at 09:18, LAURIE APPLETON wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "creation" in echo C_Vs_E:
LA> Hi Rod,
LA> RS> past). If creationism is based upon verifiable scientific
LA> RS> evidence, why do creationists consistently lose court battles?
LA> Wouldn't it be a safe bet that all the judges would be
LA> EVOLUTIONISTS?
Well, the only safe bet is that they are judges, Laurie. If
there was any miscarriage of justice, the affected parties had
both an appeals process and the *ability* to make the charge of
judicial bias to the next higher court (happens *all the time*).
Further, if the losing parties here feel so unjustly treated,
they could fight it in court in another futile attempt to force
their religion onto the masses of non-religious or
differently-religious people.
Do you support the teaching of the scientific facts that may
support the belief of the Amataresu-oomi-kami creation that is
indigenous to Japanese Culture, Laurie, in Queensland schools?
After all, the Japanese own a lot of Queensland :) :)
Rod "...or is their creationist intent against yours? And what
does this mean for your screams for 'equal treatment'?? :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The universe's most common elements: Hydrogen & Stupidity
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: All
|Sub: Where is your record?
|Date: 31 Jan 97 13:40:04
EID:f97e 223f6d00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f185b4
* On 19-01-97 at 09:23, LAURIE APPLETON wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Where is your record?" in echo C_Vs_E:
LA> RS> Why do you expect to be able to claim that lay people should
LA> RS> adjudicate science? Especially when it's been proven that the
LA> Where did I say that I expected ANY such thing?
You are the one claiming that lay audiences are the right sort of
judges of scientific debates...
I like that, the unlearned judging an area they know nothing
about.
I note you claim to be able to question the judicial independence
of judges. Why can't I question the credibility of village
idiot audiences presiding over scientific "debates" that
never deal with scientific investigation!
Rod "...or did you forget that, Laurie?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Bugger me with a fish fork!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: Re: Am I Getting Through
|Date: 31 Jan 97 13:41:06
EID:0b94 223f6d20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f185f2
* On 18-01-97 at 10:22, BECKE BOYER wrote to JIM STEINGROBE,
on the topic of "RE: AM I GETTING THROUGH?" in echo Holysmoke:
BB> On 15 Jan 97 01:04pm, JIM STEINGROBE wrote to ALL:
BB> JS> WEll, I was able to log onto this bbs via the internet. Now
I just
BB> JS> have to see if this works and all. I hope to be a blessing
to all
BB> JS> of you out there since I know many of you could use a blessing.
:)
BB> JS> See ya all around hopefully.
BB> Oh, Christ--Steiny on Fido??
BB> FRESH MEAT!!
I'm already drooling in anticipation of turning him into mince
meat :)
Rod "...drool drool..." Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Any milk can make cheese. Here, have some gerbil cheese.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Stupid Staal Fiascoes
|Date: 31 Jan 97 13:43:08
EID:3eab 223f6d60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f1866c
* On 18-01-97 at 04:48, DAN CEPPA wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "Stupid Staal Fiascoes" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> FR> I am condemning no one. The homosexual who sexually practices
DC> FR> his homosexuality condemns himself." - Jim Staal
DC> Shit, that blows a current message he just sent right out
DC> of the water.
The one asking me to show where he's anti-gay? :) *ROFL*
DC> FR> Bathroom Staal continues to be one of the most evil and filthy
DC> FR> participants ever to grace us with his lunacy.
DC> He's gone off of the deep end and has tied lead weights
DC> around his neck. Thing is, there's more lead in his head
DC> than there is in the keel of your boat.
Rod "...praise Jesus, and pass the lead poisoning" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Rap is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Stupid Staal Fiascoes
|Date: 31 Jan 97 13:44:10
EID:2925 223f6d80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f186aa
* On 19-01-97 at 12:32, JIM STAAL wrote to DAN CEPPA,
on the topic of "Stupid Staal Fiascoes" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> FR> I am condemning no one. The homosexual who sexually practices
JS> FR> his homosexuality condemns himself." - Jim Staal
JS> DC> Shit, that blows a current message he just sent right out
JS> DC> of the water.
JS> Which current message might that be?
The one in which you challenge Fredric to provide some posts of
yours that show your homohatred.
Rod "...homophobia is not as good a word as homohatred, Jimbozo" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * I'm not dead, I'm metabolically-challenged
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Warring Christanic Facti
|Date: 31 Jan 97 13:50:12
EID:323c 223f6e40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f18814
* On 17-01-97 at 22:32, ED MILLS wrote to DAN CEPPA,
on the topic of "Warring Christanic Factio" in echo Holysmoke:
EM> DC> I'm setting up an emergency Holysmoke feed network. It will
EM> DC> work for other Echoes, of course, but it's damned hard to
EM> DC> keep up in this Echo, for sure!
EM> I can pull a cord and a hydrogen sulfide mask will drop
EM> from the overhead compartment?
I hear that is installing NO2 masks so that way you can at least
die laughing.
Rod "...boom tish!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Necrotelecomnicon: Book of dead phone numbers
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 31 Jan 97 13:52:14
EID:991d 223f6e80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f1888e
* On 10-01-97 at 11:18, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> LIVING SACRIFICES
A synonym for George Mooth. Look, he's probably a virgin too :)
GM> TO LIVE FOR CHRIST, WE MUST DIE TO SELF.
You are advocating, of course, some sort of braindeath, so you
can be that "mental slave" that you so freely admitted earlier
this month, eh George?
Rod "...praise Jesus, and pass the drill!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Smoke me a kipper skipper, I'll be back for breakfast
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 283/120 284/29 290/14 310/666 322/739
SEEN-BY: 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32 377/86 380/64
SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 31 Jan 97 13:53:16
EID:991d 223f6ea0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f188cc
* On 11-01-97 at 11:22, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> HUMAN LIKE US
...no, you're not, actually :)
GM> THE SON OF GOD BECAME ONE OF US
GM> THAT WE MIGHT BECOME ONE WITH HIM.
So God doesn't believe in monogamy?
Rod "...sluts for Jesus!" Swift!
* OLX 2.1 TD * The only rational solution to your problem is suicide
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 31 Jan 97 13:54:18
EID:991d 223f6ec0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f1890a
* On 12-01-97 at 11:42, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> RANDOM ACTS
...something that you will never sexually experience :)
GM> +---------------------------------+
GM> | COMMIT RANDOM ACTS OF KINDNESS |
GM> | AND SENSELESS ACTS OF BEAUTY. |
GM> +---------------------------------+
GM> It sounds a bit reckless to engage in "random" and
GM> "senseless" acts. But as I mentally dismantled that
GM> strange combination of words, I realized that its
GM> various parts are surprisingly compatible with the
GM> apostle Paul's admonition in Galatians 6:10.
He doesn't get the pagan origin, does he?
GM> A LITTLE KINDNESS CAN MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE.
Christianity has provided very little kindness in human history
and existence, George.
Rod "...be at peace, lose God!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't buy furs. It takes trees to make protest signs.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 31 Jan 97 13:56:20
EID:991d 223f6f00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f18984
* On 13-01-97 at 11:34, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> TRY OUT MY TIGER
Can I 'put my tiger in your tank' now, George? Bend over ... :)
GM> TO EXPERIENCE GOD'S POWER,
GM> WE MUST FIRST ADMIT THAT WE ARE WEAK.
No. To experience God's power you must be mentally weak.
Be strong, George. Depart from your elusion! In the name of
science I *slay* thee with the word of Darwin!
Rod "...he's healed! Praise Galileo!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Lead me not into temptation. I can find it myself.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Becke the Slave
|Date: 31 Jan 97 13:57:22
EID:39f2 223f6f20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f189c2
* On 14-01-97 at 11:53, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to BECKE BOYER,
on the topic of "Becke the Slave" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> BB>George, the slavery is completely voluntary. You can escape your
mythical
GM> BB>beliefs at any point--no one is holding a gun to your
GM> BB>head. There are some o
GM> BB>us who choose to be a slave to none.
GM> Hahahahahahahaha, that's a good one. A slave to none! Hahahahaha You
GM> are so apparently a slave to Satan that even a casual observer can see
GM> it. You push his agenda at every opportunity.
What is this thing about slaves? You're always talking about
slaves, MOO-th. Is it a secret desire to be dominated by a woman
and tied up?
Or is it maybe a man that you desire to be a slave to?
GM> There is none so blind as he who will not see.
He replied again, Becke. We're getting through to him.... WAHOO!
Rod "... you're a mindless slave, George. Get a life!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * God is watching me? What is he, a pervert?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Becke, slave to satan
|Date: 31 Jan 97 13:59:24
EID:e8aa 223f6f60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f18a3c
* On 14-01-97 at 11:55, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to BECKE BOYER,
on the topic of "Becke, slave to satan" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> BB>You said in a prior message that you were a slave to God. Now you
GM> BB>speak of freedom. Which is it, Moothy?
GM> You'd have to show me the message that you are twisting to make me
GM> believe I said I was a slave.
Done...
In this post below, you claim that we are all mentally enslaved
to a higher being, and that I am enslaved allegedly to Satan.
This implies you are enslaved to God.
===========================================================================
* On 04-01-97 at 12:33, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> THE ONLY WAY TO BE RIGHT
GM> IS TO AGREE WITH GOD WHEN HE SAYS WE'RE WRONG.
RS>Isn't that mental enslavery, Moothy?
We are all in mental salavery. You just have to choose who you want
to be the slave of. You choose Satan and all the sick immoral posts
you put in here. Satan uses you every day in this conference. Talk
about mental slavery - He's got you!
= Geo =
gmooth@sprynet.com
* 1st 2.00 #1855 + God's baud rate is ..
___ PCBoard (R) v15.21/10
* Origin: After Five; BBS Elkhart In. 219-262-1370 10 gig (1:2285/100)
===========================================================================
* OLX 2.1 TD * Found God? What, have you lost him *again*?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 31 Jan 97 14:00:26
EID:991d 223f7000
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f18a7a
* On 14-01-97 at 11:58, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> PARADOX
... your existence, perhaps, George?
GM> WE ARE SAVED BY GOD'S MERCY, NOT BY OUR MERIT.
Bull shit. Read Exodus 34 :) How about Exodus 20 :)
Rod "...liar. God kills the third and fourth generation of a
sinner, regardless of whether that third or fourth generation is
a believer in your pathetic God!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * "It's 50-50! Better odds than at the Dabo table" - Quark
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Slave
|Date: 31 Jan 97 14:05:28
EID:4368 223f70a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f18ba8
* On 15-01-97 at 11:20, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ROBERT CURRY,
on the topic of "Our Daily Slave" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> ALL!! Are under mental slavery.
Even though in your previous sentient post you claimed that you
weren't mentally enslaved to Jesus.
BTW, do you have any proof that Robert is enslaved? Or I?
GM> Your master is satan.
Let me guess... Because you say so? Where does this leave your
concept of "free will"?
GM> Only satan wants Christianity to be attacked
Some humans want to also, just for fun! :) Just because you are
so deluded and get so worked up about being attacked :) You guys
respond so well to our enturbulation :)
GM> - and you are doing just what he wants you to do.
I suspect you just eliminated humanity having free will :) Of
course if you really did subscribe to the doctrine of free will,
you'd realise Robert is attacking your faith out of personal
choice. :) :) You can't have it both ways, buttfuck.
GM> If you weren't a slave to satan you wouldn't care
GM> one way or the other.
Oh, and the reason why this is a true statement is because you've
said so, right?
GM> GM> You just have to choose who you want to be the slave of.
GM> RC>Not likely.
GM> Another lie. Satan is full of lies.
Another piece of shit. Christians are full of shit. Jesus is
shit. Your God is shit.
This is biblically-correct and God-inspired, because God created
humans with the ability to shit.
Your God is a god of shit!
Rod "...praise Jesus, and take a dump, boy!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * That tagline is *true* ---> <--- That tagline is *false*
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 31 Jan 97 14:06:30
EID:991d 223f70c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f18be6
* On 15-01-97 at 11:20, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> HE'LL MAKE IT WORK
Oh, shouldn't that be HE'AVEN MAKE IT WORK?
GM> GOD'S RESOURCES ARE ALWAYS EQUAL TO
GM> HIS REQUIREMENTS.
No they're not. God is sorely lacking in resources. He clearly
doesn't have the ability to be omniscient at the moment.
Rod "...how else could one justify the cruelty of the Christian
deity construct?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Found God? What, have you lost him *again*?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 31 Jan 97 14:07:32
EID:991d 223f70e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f18c24
* On 16-01-97 at 11:48, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> WILLING TO CHANGE
So you *are* gay, really?
GM> RELIGIOUS ACTIVITY IS NO SUBSTITUTE
GM> FOR AN OBEDIENT HEART.
So why are you here, George?
Rod "...aren't you deluding yourself that your religious activity
here will make up for your disobedience to your God?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * First rule of intelligent tinkering: Save all the parts
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 31 Jan 97 14:08:34
EID:991d 223f7100
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f18c62
* On 18-01-97 at 11:31, GEORGE MOOTH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Our Daily Bread" in echo Holysmoke:
GM> HOW HEALTHY IS YOUR HEART?
GM> A HEALTHY HEART BEATS WITH LOVE FOR JESUS.
You need a coronary bypass, to remove the Jesus deity-construct
which is OBVIOUSLY affecting circulation to your very few
synapses that make up your puny mind, Christian filth!
P.S. I love you. After all, this is how Christians end their
condemnatory and hate-filled posts to me about my sexuality, so
that it makes them sound sincere...
Rod "...you silly buttfuck, George" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Do not adjust your mind, the fault is with reality.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 381/900 382/92 388/1 395/100 396/1 2 690/660 730/2 732/10 733/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Buttfuck Staal
|Date: 31 Jan 97 14:11:36
EID:fa1d 223f7160
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f18d18
* On 18-01-97 at 09:10, JIM STAAL wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "Buttfuck Staal" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> FR> By the way: Have any evidence for this "Christ" construct of yours,
JS> FR> buttfuck? Any at all?
JS> Have any evidence to support your judgements of me in regard to being
a
JS> 'buttf**k'?
Oh yes, we are mistaken. He's the product of Mary's body trying
to spontaneously abort.
Rod "...praise Jesus, and pass the abortion" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Necrotelecomnicon: Book of dead phone numbers
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/5050 140/3 143/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Educational Experience
|Date: 31 Jan 97 14:12:38
EID:33f6 223f7180
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f18d56
* On 18-01-97 at 09:30, JIM STAAL wrote to AL SCHROEDER,
on the topic of "Educational Experience" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> yeah, and Jim Staal not only recognizes gays as human, but even
JS> JS> befriends them. Go figure...
JS> AS> Good to know.
JS> Good to have someone besides me recognize it. :)
Jeez, with all your lovey-dovey behaviour, you'd be thinking you
were in a sexual relationship with Al.
Rod "...be like your saviour, and come already" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Today's topic: The impact of pig's wings on lingustics
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Bored
|Date: 31 Jan 97 14:17:40
EID:0133 223f7220
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f18e84
* On 19-01-97 at 07:27, MARILYN BURGE wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Bored" in echo Holysmoke:
MB> Is anybody else as bored with Quantum Deities and the "constants"
MB> as I am?
MB> We definitely need a new batch of fundies. Maybe we can talk
MB> Edweird into another month haitus and a return as a saved
MB> Christer.
It would seem we have Mooth to play with and probe his mind.
I've never dissect... er.. understood such minds :)
Rod "...it could be fun, Marilyn" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * As Piglet psychosexually said, "Bounce on me too Tigger!"
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Norman Solomon
|Sub: Hi I'm new
|Date: 31 Jan 97 14:20:42
EID:f8e8 223f7280
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f18f3a
* On 14-01-97 at 18:59, NORMAN SOLOMON wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Hi I'm new" in echo Holysmoke:
NS> I would call myself a Christian, but most fundies prob would'nt
NS> agree.
Oh my fucking non-God! Another fucking Al :(
Head for the hills, kids. Imminent death of the echo due to
traffic overload predicted. Shit, he had a 3 page intro!
Rod "...arrrgh, it's an Al B Clone!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Save the whales. Collect the whole set!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Patriot
|Sub: Cracker Barrel Boycot
|Date: 31 Jan 97 14:21:44
EID:3d11 223f72a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f18f78
* On 18-01-97 at 17:28, PATRIOT wrote to JAN DEBOER,
on the topic of "CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT" in echo Holysmoke:
PA> Jd> Lord who?
PA> Jd> Do they give a free 'Gawd is my co-pilot' bumper sticker with a
car
PA> Jd> purchase?
PA> Actually, God should not be anyone's co-pilot.. He should
PA> actually be the pilot. We should let Him take over, and
PA> just enjoy the ride.
Ecstacy does a better job...
Rod "...but I'm not into drugs" Swift
* OLX 2.1 TD * Today's topic: Life is good if you're happy. Refute.
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Joe Martin
|Sub: Your Soul....
|Date: 31 Jan 97 14:25:46
EID:e3ae 223f7320
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f1906a
* On 19-01-97 at 10:14, JOE MARTIN wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "YOUR SOUL...." in echo Holysmoke:
JM> RS> We get to live sane, useful, worthwhile lives not worrying about
JM> RS> the next existence -- while you folk are pissing your finite time
JM> RS> up against a wall worrying about the next emanation....
JM> One cult even considers THESE body functions a sin and is teaching
JM> their kids to "hold it"... forever!
Really? Pee-less Jeeee-ses?
Rod "...praise Jesus, and take a slash" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Blessed are the fundies, for they shall INHIBIT the Earth
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: Re: another one
|Date: 31 Jan 97 14:26:48
EID:37ae 223f7340
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f190a8
* On 18-01-97 at 12:38, QUENTIN FAI wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Re: another one" in echo Holysmoke:
QF> While puffing on a 'Fropstick, I felt Rod utter:
QF> RS> Didn't the bible also say that parents should execute their
QF> RS> annoying and rebellious children? And wouldn't this make the
QF> RS> above quote a contradiction?
QF> Yeah. So what? There's lots. :)
:) But of course. But I'd like the abovementioned to be used as
a reason against "Christian" family values.
Movies like "The Sum of Us" should be used to demonstrate real
family values.
Rod "...everyone who doesn't know about that movie, should hire
it... it's one that will piss the Kwisters off" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Paranoia is *total* awareness!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Answer the Question!
|Date: 31 Jan 97 14:45:50
EID:6f1c 223f75a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f1951e
* On 21-01-97 at 09:09, LAURIE APPLETON wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Answer the Question!" in echo Holysmoke:
LA> RS> Are you admitting that creationism is not part of the
LA> RS> sciences now?
LA> Just the opposite. It is more likely the ONLY scientific
LA> journal
I didn't ask journals. I asked sciences.
Please re-attempt to answer the question asked.
Rod "...or can't you?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Famous graffitti: I used to be indecisive; am I sure?
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Descended from Monkeys.
|Date: 31 Jan 97 14:28:52
EID:52c2 223f7380
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f19124
* On 21-01-97 at 09:10, LAURIE APPLETON wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Descended from Monkeys." in echo Holysmoke:
LA> RS> On 11-10-96, LAURIE APPLETON wrote to SNARL KCHNEIDER:
LA> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
LA> RS> There's something in the bible about mockery, Laurie.
LA> RS> And I thought you knew your bible.
LA> Where did you get that idea? I usually refer to scientific
LA> evidence and evolutionary claims?
Oh, how delusionary Christians get when their bible is used
against them to point out their sins.
Rod "...Laurie, you are a sinner, and should immediately
apologise to Karl" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Black hole: where God divided by zero during creation
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: 15 Judge Appeal Court.
|Date: 31 Jan 97 14:30:54
EID:aa67 223f73c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f1919e
* On 21-01-97 at 09:10, LAURIE APPLETON wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "15 Judge Appeal Court." in echo Holysmoke:
LA> [much long and irrelevant stuff was here]
The stuff you deleted wasn't *irrelevant*, but *contradictory*
to your claim that a fifteen judge panel existed.
LA> RS> As I have quoted before,
LA> RS> the 8/7 decision to DENY a rehearing at the Appeals Court level
LA> RS> was a decision en banc, and the 7 dissenters dissented because
LA> RS> they wanted to send it BACK to the appeals court to investigate
LA> RS> the bill's construction, and NOT because of what you say above:
LA> RS> Rehearing en banc was denied by an 8-7 vote, the
LA> RS> dissenters expressing their disagreement with the panel
LA> RS> decision. The disagreement, however, was over the
LA> RS> construction of the Louisiana statute, particularly the
LA> RS> assessment of its purpose...
LA> RS> -- Quoted from Edwards v Aguillard, US Supreme
LA> RS> Court case 85-1513, Concurring Opinion by Powell)
LA> RS> As for the rest of your quote, it's not present in the Supreme
LA> RS> Court's ruling or opinions. So I will make no comment at this
LA> RS> time.
LA> I am indebted to you for putting to rest the load of lies
LA> and falsehood that I have had to put up with from a number
LA> of people who claimed that there was no such thing as an
LA> Appeal court of 15 judges and that therefore Wendell Bird was
LA> mistaken and otherwise incompetent. The incompetent ones are
LA> therefore my opponents.
There isn't any such thing as a "fifteen judge appeal court"
It was an en banc decision. Do you know what that means?
Wendell Bird is still mistaken and still incompetent.
Your opponents are clearly competent. The fifth circuit of
appeals courts do not have sessions involving 15 justices sitting
on court cases.
You are wrong.
Rod "...they were given the equivalent of a circular motion" Swift.
* OLX 2.1 TD * I'm not dead, I'm metabolically-challenged
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Creationist Lawyers.
|Date: 31 Jan 97 14:34:56
EID:5388 223f7440
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f19290
* On 21-01-97 at 09:11, LAURIE APPLETON wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Creationist Lawyers." in echo Holysmoke:
LA> RS> From memory, hasn't the creationists lost each and every
LA> RS> case during the 1970-1997 period in the courts?
LA> How could then, since they were NOT the defendants in
LA> any, that I know of, which had to do with balanced treatment
LA> cases?
They attempted to and were denied the right to enjoin themselves
in the case against a state-passed law. The reason? They were
not part of the direct legislative function of that state.
Of course, they wanted to defend the law as passed as they were
an INDIRECT functionary of the lawmaking process -- having
written draft bills for political allies to introduce.
In exchange for denials to attach themselves to the case as
defendants, they have always offered to provide counsel to the
defending state -- Wendell Bird -- who invariably fucks up the
defense :)
LA> RS> Surely if the creationists "had any intelligence at all"
LA> RS> they "should have been able to winn all that decade of"
LA> RS> court "debates instead of having to constantly make silly
LA> RS> excuses for" their "hopeless efforts".
LA> Unless you can show that some of the judges in question
LA> were NOT already evolutionists then your comment is
LA> meaningless humbug.
Judicial independence, or lack thereof, should have been
challenged in the next higher court if there was a problem.
If a judge in any of the cases had acted inappropriately or had
not administered justice lawfully, a lower decision could have
been set aside and the case reheard.
Have creationists tried this? Maybe they have, and have been
rejected due to the fact that all their screams of unfairness are
actually bunkum?
Rod "...the onus is on you to prove judicial interference or
bias, not I" Swift.
* OLX 2.1 TD * Give Christians Prozac, not Government Office!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Dumb Lawyers.
|Date: 31 Jan 97 14:38:58
EID:ffa5 223f74c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f19382
* On 21-01-97 at 09:11, LAURIE APPLETON wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Dumb Lawyers." in echo Holysmoke:
LA> LA> So instead of achieving your desired goals on the basis of
LA> LA> good science and democratic processes, you have to do it by
LA> LA> "snowing" the probably already biased judges, using a team
LA> LA> of smart lawyers...
LA> RS> It's wonderful how you keep inferring that the lawyers
LA> RS> for the Creationists are dumb.
LA> You won't find any message from me that claims any such
LA> thing.
You've failed to prove the judges being biased or miscarrying
justice. Hence I can only concur that creationists use dumb
lawyers. Your constant scream that we have very good lawyers on
the side of rationality infers that your side can't get any good
lawyers.
The fact is, also, that I've proven Wendell Bird is incompetent
in his book-writing. He's probably incompetent in front of the
judge too :)
LA> What you might find is a message or messages with
LA> regard to the Arkansas, Judge Overton case, where I did
LA> suggest that the State Attorney, who conducted the case for
LA> the State was probably an EVOLUTIONIST himself.
No. I clearly stated that Wendell Bird has lost numerous cases
as representatives of the States in these cases. He is a
creationist, and he loses. You claim that when creationists lose
it is because they are unfairly treated before the judiciary.
Has Bird ever complained about this alleged judicial injustice?
Or is it another one of your fantasy constructs that fails to
have any evidence provided with it?
Rod "...did you know the majority of the US Supreme Court hold
religious beliefs, Laurie? They voted against creationism 7-2"
Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * God is watching me? What is he, a pervert?
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Paul Davis
|Sub: Religious comments
|Date: 31 Jan 97 14:41:00
EID:04c1 223f7520
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f193fc
* On 18-01-97 at 18:48, PAUL DAVIS wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Religious comments" in echo Holysmoke:
PD> KW>> Ok. The world and universe around us tells us very loudly
PD> KW>> there is an Intelligent Source for the complexity and
PD> KW>> Design we see.
PD> RS> Ok. The world and universe around us tells us very loudly that
the
PD> RS> world is flat. Do you agree?
PD> Nope. It appears to disappear from view after about ten or so miles
and no
PD> matter how far I walk I can never get to the edge, and woah! Look! I'm
back
PD> where I started even though I didn't change direction! I
It was an analogy that those with a lack-of-knowledge, and those
who do NOT want to expand the available data, are destined to
think the world is flat, because that is how it appears.
PD> Our inability to interpret the evidence properly used to
PD> tell us that the earth was flat.
My point was those who do not seek expanded data sets are
destined to make erroneous conclusions based on a small pool of
data :)
PD> RS> Or does our knowledge (as it expanded) eliminated flat-earthism?
If it
PD> RS> does, our knowledge will eliminate your deity!
PD> Not true.
You just claimed yourself that myths are lost when science
replaces myth with fact.
Why should your false-deity-construct be any different. We're
already disproving his existence in an observable way :)
Rod "...free will is a problem for you guys, so too
prayer-answer, and of course, origins and speciation, and
miracles, etc, etc, etc" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Diplomacy: Saying "nice doggy" until you can find a rock
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Reich-to-lifers
|Date: 31 Jan 97 14:43:02
EID:ed4f 223f7560
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 32f19476
* On 13-01-97 at 12:25, JUDITH BANDSMA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Reich-to-lifers" in echo Holysmoke:
JB> -=> Rod Swift spoke thusly to Karl Schneider <=-
JB> RS> point onward the reich-to-lifers want to do everything to
JB> RS> exterminate any human that's *NOT LIKE THEM*.
JB> That isn't the whole point. Weins, in one of his anti-abortion rants,
JB> managed to say that 'all are BORN [emphasis mine] in sin and worthy
of
JB> death'. Innocent until you're born, dog chow after.
Exactly. Religious-Reich-To-Lifers believe in the sanctity of
human life until the point of birth, when they take all
measurable steps to eliminate every human life not *exactly* like
theirs :)
JB> One of the reasons the fundies make no sense at all on this point.
But of course. If they're pro-life, why are most of them
pro-death-penalty-for-murder, yet anti-euthanasia, yet advocates
for more deathly religious punishments for what they define as
sin...yet...?
Rod "...I'm sure there are hundreds more contradictions" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * That was Zen... This is Tao!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 31 Jan 97 19:07:49
EID:a5b7 223f98e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8608
IF David = Worrell THEN Damien Wellman ELSE Oops, Caught Again
[Damien Wellman]
DW> The other thing about Pascal's Wager that is flawed is even if one
DW> only regards Jehovah, Jehovah will be pissed himself if you are only
DW> worshipping him to "be on the safe side." After all, he'll know you
DW> don't really give a shit about him...
[David Worrell]
DW> Yeah, I know. I have yet to see any fundy able to get his two neurons
DW> around the concept I mentioned above, though. I like to save the
DW> advanced concepts until the student has mastered the basics.
True, but it is good reserve ammo when they bleat that "but Jehovah is the
only god because the Babble says so". You can only beat them up the head
with "quit the circular logic" so many times, after all.
---
þ TLX v4.00 þ As inevitable as death, taxes, and America Online disks.
Email: damienw@juno.com
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
---
* Origin: The Stargate BBS - (304) 453-6625 - Kenova, WV - (1:262/20)
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 31 Jan 97 19:07:50
EID:a21d 223f98e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8608
IF David = Worrell THEN Damien Wellman ELSE Hypocritical people
[David]
DW>> No, Dan's not "rich." I doubt any of us here (Brawley's
DW>> protestations notwithstanding) qualify for the "rich" label.
[Damien]
DW> Hell, I qualify for borderline poverty.
[David again]
DW> Of course you do. You're a West Virginian, and that is a requirement
DW> for residence in your fine state.
Not actually... it just helps. There ARE rich people in WV... they just
didn't get rich _here_.
---
þ TLX v4.00 þ Actually, we *DO* have an Oligopoly on this echo.
Email: damienw@juno.com
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
---
* Origin: The Stargate BBS - (304) 453-6625 - Kenova, WV - (1:262/20)
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|From: Damien Wellman
|To: Ben Budts
|Sub: wiet
|Date: 31 Jan 97 19:07:51
EID:ff42 223f98e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8608
IF Ben = Budts THEN All¢úú ELSE wiet
BB> How's the opium here ?
Ask Samuel Coleridge.
... It's interesting that Eve was not surprised to hear a snake speak.
---
* TLX v4.00 *Email: damienw@juno.com
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
---
* Origin: The Stargate BBS - (304) 453-6625 - Kenova, WV - (1:262/20)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Paul Davis
|Sub: God came to stay
|Date: 30 Jan 97 14:42:54
EID:33bb 223e7540
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32f0b36e
-> On 25 Jan 97 23:22:08, Paul Davis got back to Dan Ceppa
PD>> If someone told you God was staying at his house, would you want to
PD>> have a look?
DC> No, I would prefer that he stayed in his house.
PD> Why?
At that point, we could burn the house down and see if it
was really a god. Even if we didn't go to that extreme,
we would be safe in knowing that that god wasn't out and
about causing trouble for "his" creations.
Care to buy a snapshot of invisible alien spacecraft?
There's only a few left.
... I am Ernest Angley of Borg. Prepare to be HHHEEEEAAAALLLEEEDDDD!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Most Read Book
|Date: 30 Jan 97 15:13:54
EID:2ca3 223e79a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32f0bab2
-> On 29 Jan 97 12:26:10, Ken Young got back to Marty Leipzig
Pa> And if you do your homework, you will discover most of the foundign
Pa> father of the USA, were Christians..
ML> Fleeing from Christian tyranny.
KY> Nope, but nice try.. Rather, they were escaping from religious
KY> tyranny.
And the perptrators of the religious tyranny where....
Xians!
How about that, Ken.
... You've been debunked so often that you make your bed on the floor.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Alan Hess
|Sub: who does god like?
|Date: 30 Jan 97 20:53:48
EID:bbe1 223ea6a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32f10a5c
-> On 28 Jan 97 13:06:11, Alan Hess got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> It didn't look so in the first half. One of the better Stupor
DC> Bowls in some time.
AH> I prefer the commercials. However, since the lord personally chats
They did have a lot of strange ones, that's for sure. What was the
going rate for a minute this year?
DC> Now, whether if his god made it happen is up for grabs. I'm certain
that
DC> at least a few of those on the other team prayed at least as hard for
their
DC> team to win.
AH> But they had no minister playing for them, thus no direct connection.
Perhaps, but that doesn't explain why George Forman didn't win all
of his fights.
... "The Lord is telling me to stay awhile." - Jesse Jones, 11/28/93
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: "flat earth" town
|Date: 31 Jan 97 01:15:06
EID:2453 223f09e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32f1479a
-> On 28 Jan 97 10:26:52, Don Martin got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Unfortunately, as you note above, that teacher is still there,
DC> due to tenure. But, my daughter will never ever have another
DM> Make me God of your school district, let me administer one of my
OK, you're god!
DM> no. One merely threatens to publish the paper where the students
DM> and their parents can see it and await the lynch mob. He'll leave
DM> voluntarily.
I like that idea. Now to see if I can get to a school board
meeting. They get together on a night I'm stuck at work.
Looks like I'll have to do some massive message writing and
phone calling to accomplish what you suggest.
... 46% of Chicago teachers send their children to private schools. Why?
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: (PIDO) AIDS Education Pa
|Date: 31 Jan 97 01:18:50
EID:557f 223f0a40
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32f1487a
-> On 23 Jan 97 18:11:32, Richard Smith got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> I was lucky. I joined GDI when I was in school.
RS> GDI?
Gamma Delta Iota, one of the fastest growing fraternities on
campus the years I was there.
Oh yeah, AKA God Damned Indepenent!
... Mythos has a purpose. Religion has an agenda.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Bifurcated gentle farts
|Date: 31 Jan 97 01:22:28
EID:1ec0 223f0ac0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32f14954
-> On 28 Jan 97 04:11:01, Al Schroeder got back to Jan deBoer
Jd> Well there ya go, Al - even YOU told us recently that WE'RE _ALL_
Jd> SINNERS, (including yourself). So, Al, if god don't heed the prayers
Jd> of sinners, then he doesn't heed anyone's prayers, does he!
AS> Um.
AS> Urgh.
AS> Hey, when you're stuck you're stuck.
AS> Good point.
A very good point.
AS> Actually, it says if we say we are "without sin" the truth is not in
AS> us. I think the Bible here is talking about habitual sinners...i.e.,
Ergo, those with sin cann have truth. Thus, again by your definition,
none of what your masters are telling you can be equated with
truthfulness.
AS> I'll give you that one. Good one, Jan. LOL!
At least you are starting to notice the illogic of your religion.
That's a beginning.
... "Fish to Gish" is one example of a complex-to-simple transition.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Brett Johnson; jealous
|Date: 31 Jan 97 01:25:32
EID:1c8a 223f0b20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32f14a0c
-> On 27 Jan 97 03:55:00, DAVID RICE got back to DAN CEPPA
>BJ> refer to a judge.
DR> Strong's Concordanance got it wrong.
And so does Brett.
DC> Wrong. "Elohim" is the plural of "Eloh". "Eloh"
DC> is the Hebraic for god. "Elohim" therefore is _gods_.
DR> These gods were both female and male. Hell, even after
DR> Moses was said to lived, the Hebrews were worshiping
DR> goddesses and gods.
That's something that the xians don't seem to remember. They
through away all those godesses and most of the gods, keeping
only the 3 schizophrenic ones.
... This country doesn't need a 5 cent cigar, it needs an education.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Dander raising
|Date: 31 Jan 97 01:28:53
EID:25bd 223f0b80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32f14ad5
-> On 28 Jan 97 08:47:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> DC> RC> If Onan were the Moderator, would he withdraw?
DC> DC> JJH> (oh fuck... I've started another list...)
DC> DC> RC> Pull out while you still can.
DC> DC>I take it that this may or may not be a pregnant pause in the thread.
DC> KW> So celebrate with fireworks on the lawn.
DC>Far more fun to set them off in the bush.
KW> Just watch out for the spark of life.
Don't worry, I'll be wearing my asbestos covered rubber rain suit.
... Theological is not. Political correctness isn't.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 31 Jan 97 01:34:22
EID:469d 223f0c40
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32f14c1e
-> On 27 Jan 97 07:32:34, Don Martin got back to Dan Ceppa
DM> Dan Ceppa said "Hypocritical people" to Jonathan Fingas,
DW> The burden of proof lies upon the maker of the positive claim, moron.
JF> Yes, but can you prove that you do have an IOU? Guess not, hmm.
DC> He does have that IOU you signed. I've seen it.
DM> You, too? Worrell has been waving that thing to
DM> _everybody_, even though I told him that it wasn't worth the
Seems like nearly everyone knows that David has it but Fingas.
With testimonial evidence like that, Jonathan just has to pay it!
DC> Now, pay up or shut up. Better yet, get a clue.
DM> I've got one he could have for a mere $50,000.
Not a bad deal. It saves him the other $50 G's. And, if you
can sell one of those clues a year, you can retire.
DM> Kine is an archaic collective for cows, bulls, etc.:
DM> "cattle" is the modern equivalent.
Thanks! It didn't scan in my o/l or show up in the small
dictionary I have. I think I'll have to invest in a OED.
... "Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something." PBr
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Liar Appleton
|Date: 31 Jan 97 01:40:58
EID:eb55 223f0d00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32f14daa
-> On 29 Jan 97 04:32:00, DAVID RICE got back to DAN CEPPA
>>DR> ==PAY ATTENTION LYING SHIT:==
>LA> Consider yourself ineligible for further correspondence
>LA> unless you make an appropriate retraction.
DR> ROTFL! Did Liar really say that? (Steve's BBS went "Mail Only"
Absolutely. I'll have fun twisting things with a pun thread, but I do
not go around editing posts.
DR> informed him that his mother "last night" disagreed with him
DR> about me "not being nice?"
I may have missed it. Appletoon is very close to being the
first resident of my twit filter. As it is, most all of his
posts get at best a quick scan.
DC> Too bad that Lard-head couldn't answer your very hurtful
DC> message that shows that he's a lying sack of shit.
DR> Nearly as too bad that he refuses to understand that mountains
DR> take millions of years to form, and that a great many mountain
He has to, as you noted that it's not in conjuction with
what he has been spoonfed by the ICR.
... ICR receptionist == non-sequitary...
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
* Origin: North West Corner of Nowhere (1:123/67.5)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Mustard Bath!
|Date: 31 Jan 97 01:45:07
EID:b5a8 223f0da0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32f14ea3
-> On 27 Jan 97 01:59:00, DAVID RICE got back to DAN CEPPA
DC> Avoid the gell-cell types. There's a new Optima deep
DR> I wanted two 6-volt "golf cart" batteries, but they are
DR> too tall (by one inch) to fit in my battery bay.
They aren't very cheap, either. The Optima is nice in
that you never have to worry about a spill. They go
for around $150 or so each. I'm not sure about what
their AH rating is, though.
DR> I afford the solar panel I wanted. Nor can I afford to
DR> buy food. This is very anoying. :-)
Well, you can always take the boat out and fish or crab!
I enjoy going down to the bay to crab and clam. Get some
oysters too, if it's a good low tide.
... I have heard of getting the crabs, but never the barnacles!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 31 Jan 97 01:47:19
EID:ebac 223f0de0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32f14f27
-> On 27 Jan 97 03:50:00, DAVID RICE got back to DAN CEPPA
DR> scientology.org in the SMTP HELO domain command. Nor have
DR> I written a program to do this automatically every morning.
VERY BIG GRIN!
... Mein Fuehrer! I can WALK! -- Dr. Strangelove
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Well, women?
|Date: 31 Jan 97 01:57:04
EID:e4ce 223f0f20
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 32f15170
-> On 28 Jan 97 10:06:00, DAVID RICE got back to JIM STAAL
DR> DEPART SEATTLE -- MID APRIL
Floating on in, or flying over? And, just how are you
going to get through the Straights? (I work with an
ex-Navy man that has connection at the sub base in Bangor!)
DR> to the Marquesas three weeks later.
Let's see if I have the right tagline to go along with that.
And, speaking of taglines:
DR> ... Gee, there must be hundreds of em! -- Carl Sagan, age 8.
I now can only wonder about thinking that Sagan knew about
that one. I would loved to have seen him and asked him
about that scenario. Of course, I would have been able
to use " . . . hunnndrrreds and HUNNNDRRREDS of em! . . ."
... "She's got 80' on the waterline, nicely making way" CS&N
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Domino
|To: Uri Tidhar
|Sub:
|Date: 31 Jan 97 15:08:12
EID:123c 223f7900
MSGID: 1:123/531.0 2f251320
REPLY: 2:407/10 32efed39
PID: timEd-B11
Uri, having seen All during his little streak, remarked:
UT> What is god's religion?
Which god?
Abreq ad Hƒbra
Domino
---
* Origin: Clockwork BBS, Covington TN, (901)475-1195 (1:123/531)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Paul Davis
|Sub: 2 CORINTHIANS 9:13
|Date: 30 Jan 97 16:31:00
EID:2b29 223e83e0
-=> Quoting Paul Davis to Roger Hunter <=-
RH>> ... Belief without evidence is no more than self delusion. ___ Blue
RH>> Wave/QWK v2.12
PD>> Belief with evidence is no longer belief.
RH> Uh....it's a tag line, Paul.
PD> I thought it was a comment to do with the post it came from actually.
PD> Does that
PD> make it any more true then being a tagline? ;)
No. The interesting thing is that taglines are chosen at random, yet
they are frequently relevant to the discussion.
PD>> Are you an anti-theist or an atheist?
RH> Weak atheist. I'm willing to be convinced, but it will take
RH> extraordinary evidence to do so. Why, do you have some?
PD> Not in the least. :) Couldn't you be called an agnostic then?
Not quite. The strong atheist says "I'm sure there is no God".
The weak atheist says "I don't -think- there's a God".
The agnostic says "I don't know whether there is a God or not".
... DOS never says "EXCELLENT command or filename"...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO (303) 421-7186 V.32bis (1:104/251)
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: NATIVE AMERICANS
|Date: 30 Jan 97 16:32:00
EID:83e8 223e8400
-=> Quoting David Worrell to Roger Hunter <=-
DW> Never fear, though. As long as I'm around, they probably won't even
DW> notice your light attempts at misogyny.
Yeah, you have rather drawn their fire lately. But not without cause.
... Ok, I pulled the pin. Now what? Where are you going?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Jan Deboer
|Sub: WHY DON'T WE SEE GOD
|Date: 30 Jan 97 16:36:00
EID:be56 223e8480
-=> Quoting Jan Deboer to Roger Hunter <=-
JD> And I thought YOU were the fundy. This ruins everything!
JD> Can't we just go back to our former roles, and carry on?
That sounds like the best idea. SIC 'EM!
... Don't hit me, Mr. Moderator... I'll go back on topic... I swear!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: OF THREATS OF HELL...
|Date: 30 Jan 97 16:41:00
EID:bc3b 223e8520
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Roger Hunter <=-
MB> I really don't understand why Al added the parenthetical phrase.
MB> "Open" marriages make a mockery of the word "vow" or "promise."
That depends on the wording of the vow. The conventional Xtian vow,
yes. The pagans have very different vows, it seems.
MB> Al just LOVES to play both sides of the street on nearly every
MB> issue in which he becomes enbroiled. I don't have a clue what
MB> he really thinks about anything, because he doesn't have the
MB> moral fortitude to admit to himself what his position is on
MB> major issues, nor does he have the moral fortitude to state
MB> clearly and unambiguously what those positions are -- even to
MB> himself -- and honestly admit at what point those positions
MB> break down under the light of pure reason.
He doesn't seem that way to me. He's conceded several points
lately, which is not the typical fundy behavior. And he has
admitted that Hell troubles him.
... Those who believe without reason cannot be convinced by reason.- Randi
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: ...
|Date: 30 Jan 97 17:03:00
EID:5992 223e8860
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Al Schroeder <=-
LB> Just what is the point in declaring him to be omniscient or omnipotent
LB> if he dare not use either?
A question from the '60s; who is better armed, a National Guardsman
with an M-16 or a grandmother with a brick in her purse?
A weapon is useless if you are unable (or unwilling) to use it.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: AL'S DELIBERATE DELUS
|Date: 30 Jan 97 17:13:00
EID:845f 223e89a0
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Al Schroeder <=-
MB> Your whole diatribe above simply sounds like somebody who is
MB> railing against the obvious because he cannot face it: your
MB> existence has a very short shelf-life, compared to the existence
MB> of the universe itself. We are no more significant to anybody
MB> but ourselves than the existence of a gnat. So what? So long
MB> as WE care, life still have abundant quality.
Lends support to my thesis that the driving force behind religion
is cowardice.
... "One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." -- Heinlein
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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|From: Christopher Baker
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Re: I can't take this any more!
|Date: 31 Jan 97 01:47:06
EID:4d37 223f0de0
> I've been living a lie. I can't continue to lie any longer.
> I AM A CHRISTIAN AND I'M PROUD OF IT!
it's not April 1st.
QOFM.
Chris
--- DB B2300sl/001027
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Ceppa - Holographic
|Date: 31 Jan 97 22:10:12
EID:8099 223fb140
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223fb146
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
HP>> The fact that reality appears to be non-local doesn't conjure gods,
HP>> John. You're doing that all by yourself.
JB> I demonstrate that the Universe as-a-whole HAS TO BE "intelligent"
JB> merely by showing that we are; we (brains) are made of the stuff that
JB> exhibits nonlocal properties
Pseudoscientific mumbo-jumbo, John. Rocks aren't "intelligent," yet they
"are
made of the stuff that exhibits nonlocal properties."
You make the claim that the universe "HAS TO BE 'intelligent'". Sorry,
don't
believe you. No reason to do so. Because you are only making baseless
assertions, not providing any evidence to back up your claim. Just like
the
other fundies.
"It is a capital mistake to theorize before one has data. Insensibly one
begins
to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts."
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
--- DBSMail V2.10c [6926C58E]
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 31 Jan 97 22:10:16
EID:263a 223fb140
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223fb148
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
JB> Cantor demonstrated (I've read one about him, too), many ways of
JB> being meddled with, but even Cantor could not at last escape the
JB> conclusion there had to be a sort of top-level infinity.
Did he add one to it? :-)
Tsk, tsk. You can't talk the talk, can't walk the walk -- but you can sure
quack like a duck.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: ??
|Date: 31 Jan 97 22:10:20
EID:7245 223fb140
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223fb14a
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
RV>> I sometimes wonder how many of Al's post are placed with
RV>> a smirk on his face.
RC> It would be more interesting to see if there's any higher level
RC> brainwave activity when he posts.
Al called the Psychic Hotline but couldn't get a reading. His Real, True
Psychic could detect no mental activity whatsoever.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: A Serious Question
|Date: 31 Jan 97 22:10:24
EID:4c5f 223fb140
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223fb14c
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
HP>> Why are you bothering either to compare fantasy to reality, or to mess
HP>> up a good joke, Judith? :-)
JB> Sorry, thought I was talking to Al.
Ooooh -- better go unplug your dryer. :-)
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 31 Jan 97 22:10:28
EID:5d4c 223fb140
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223fb14e
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
AS>> I see. Then if a eccentric billionaire deposits a million dollars in
AS>> your bank account, and you really need the money, he is instead not
AS>> doing you a favor, but a disservice?
JB> Yep. Because I don't know where the money came from or why.
"It is morally as bad not to care whether a thing is true or not, so long
as it
makes you feel good, as it is not to care how you got your money as long
as you
have got it." -- Edmund Way Teale
Congratulations, Judith. You've just demonstrated that Al's ethics are
bankrupt
in more ways than one.
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: bacteria and evolutio
|Date: 31 Jan 97 22:10:33
EID:864a 223fb140
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223fb150
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
AS>> Being earthbound, I used "size" and "mass" more or less
AS>> interchangeably.
LB> hehe, so a pound of feathers and a pound of gold carry the same mass????
Al's mistake can be better described by "a cubic foot of feathers and a
cubic
foot of gold." Al used "size" (which is grossly incorrect), you're using
"weight."
mass n. The measure of the quantity of matter that a body or an object
contains. The mass of the body is not dependent on gravity and therefore
is
different from but proportional to its weight.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Causality Al
|Date: 31 Jan 97 22:10:36
EID:f687 223fb140
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223fb152
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
JB> Jesus comes off as a real brat who consigns his playmates to hell...while
JB> still alive...for not wanting to play with him in *his* manner. You
know,
JB> typical kid stuff...'ah yer mother wears Roman sandals. Go to hell penis
JB> breath (POOF)' And I guess Joseph had to take him out back to the
JB> woodshed for it. (And probably only sternly told him 'you're making
us
JB> look bad to the neighbors'.)
Every time I think of this, I hear Twilight Zone music.
"That's good, Jesus. That's real good. Now wish it into the cornfield!"
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Ceppa - Holographic
|Date: 31 Jan 97 22:10:40
EID:a288 223fb140
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223fb154
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
JB>>> me a god and I'll believe in It." Hell, y'all believe in electrons,
JB>>> but you've never seen one, and y'all believe in your own
DC>> There's plenty of evidence for electrons, John. Just how to
DC>> you think that I read your message?
JB> You're ignoring my point:
That's because your "point" doesn't support your Quantum Windbag Pseudoscience
Claims (QWPCs), John.
JB> to believe that electrons exist "as described," you have to take
JB> _circumstantial_ and _secondary_evidence_.
Regardless, one may propose tests for electrons "as described," perform
it, and
see that, indeed, the theory is borne out by the experiments performed.
Repeatedly.
You, however, are totally unable to provide tests for your QWPCs, John.
You
have _no_ evidence whatsoever, only your loony claims.
And before you say "Yes, I do!" please write down the tests that can detect
your
QWPC universal intelligence, John. Hint: tests that simply indicate that
humans are intelligent don't get it -- such tests merely show that (some,
at
least) humans are intelligent.
___
* MR/2 2.26 NR *
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Christianity
|Date: 31 Jan 97 22:10:44
EID:4cfa 223fb140
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223fb156
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
JF>>> Even today, I hear it's true - buy a Bible from the Catholic church
(not
JF>>> some local church, THE church) and you're supposed to get something
a lot
JF>>> like an indulgence. Of course, this time it's in English, not Latin.
DH>> Now, this you could check for yourself before spreading lies.
DF> Guess what? I did.
Did you? Your heard something was true, and you checked it out? Are you
sure?
Let's see:
DF> A teacher of mine told me about how HE GOT A BIBLE WITH AN INDULGENCE,
DF> and being Italian, he got it from the Catholic church.
So, to check out something you heard was true, you went and heard it was
true?
Let me guess: You're a Christian, right?
DF> This is one of the few things I agree with. While the basic teachings
DF> (i.e. the Bible) are true
We would be happy for you to show us that, say, the Resurrection actually
happened as detailed in the bible, of course. :-) But on to the rest of
your
statement:
DF> too many people have been "sucked in" by people who were trying
DF> to exercise personal control and gain. Witness David Koresh.
Or Saul of Tarsus.
DH>> If you and others like you are today's flagships of
DH>> Christianity, don't be surprised to find yourself attacked by
DH>> your moral and ethical superiors.
DF> How would I be attacked?
True; for such as you, it's sufficient to sit back and watch you fulfill
Hector's Law, as you did above. :-)
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: dropping of names
|Date: 31 Jan 97 22:10:48
EID:b87a 223fb140
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223fb158
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
ML>> Where's the "three Martins"?
RC> What the fuck is it with trinities around here?
Even Holysmoke has its superstitions.
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: final exam
|Date: 31 Jan 97 22:10:52
EID:a735 223fb140
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223fb15a
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
MB>>> Don't try to imbue me with your fucked-up standards.
MB>>> It won't work.
AS>> As you wish.
RC> 7 points for Marilyn.
ROFL!
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: freedom and life
|Date: 31 Jan 97 22:10:56
EID:2440 223fb140
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223fb15c
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
JB> Thank you sir.
Don't be so formal. Call me Hec.
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: RE: FREEDOM TO BLAME
|Date: 31 Jan 97 22:11:01
EID:102f 223fb160
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223fb160
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
BB> And if said god is omni*, why doesn't he intervene rather than just
watch?
It's obvious: Al's gods are omniimpotent.
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Jonathan Fingas
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 31 Jan 97 22:11:05
EID:7854 223fb160
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223fb162
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
DM>> I did not say you _were_ a fundy, but rather made a
DM>> generalized statement about typical fundy behavior. You are
DM>> the one who made the identification between the behavior and
DM>> yourself. If you do not wish to appear to be a fundy, stop
DM>> acting like one.
JF> "Typical behaviour" is the same thing racists apply to minority groups
JF> of every kind.
You are confused. Fundies are not a racial, political or even religious
group.
They are defined here solely by their behavior, in fact.
DM> I asked you for evidence of the existence of a spook,
DM> _not_ for evidence that there are people around who believe
DM> that the spook exists. Learn the difference.
JF> At least by the Bible's definition, the existence of Satan is all around
JF> you.
Sorry, we don't buy that definition.
JF> Also, events such as the Amityville Horror are a little TOO real to
deny
JF> his existence.
Before you can use "the Amityville Horror" as evidence (ROFL!) of spooks,
please
provide some evidence that there were spooks involved. One cannot use a
claim
to support another claim, Jonathan. Trying to do so is typically fundy
behavior, you know.
JF> But those cults certainly don't hurt my case.
ROFL! More typically fundy behavior, Jonathan.
DW>> The burden of proof lies upon the maker of the positive claim, moron.
JF> Then if you reject my ideas, I should reject yours.
Still more typically fundy behavior -- tsk, tsk. No, Jonathan. One should
require evidence for extraordinary claims, and such claims should not be
accepted without evidence. That's all. Simple stuff, really.
JF> Why don't we just call it even...
Because it would be lying?
___
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|From: Mark Kimes
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: INTO MY PARLOR
|Date: 31 Jan 97 22:11:37
EID:0563 223fb160
MSGID: 1:102/735.0 223fb172
TID: DBSMail 2.10c
AS>> Please do. Also send it to professors of mathematical physics, such
AS>> as Tipler, Wheeler, and Ellis.
LB> They have figured out a way to do a workable experiment to determine
LB> whether prayer works??
LB> OH, nevermind, just more name dropping....
:-)
Sagan proposed such an experiment, but it hasn't been carried out. No real
reason to do so, as Sagan pointed out that the leading advocates of the
efficacy
of prayer admit that, despite thousands of years of praying and millions
of
prayers being offered up, there's still no concrete evidence available that
prayer works.
IOW, a grand experiment vaster than any that could be staged in a single
human
lifetime has already been performed, and it failed.
___
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 31 Jan 97 17:12:28
EID:9e76 223f8980
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 7d42b3ff
REPLY: 1:3603/210 288142dc
On (27 Jan 97) ROBERT CURRY babbled to AL SCHROEDER...
MB> What you need is a GOOD suggestion to begin with, and there
MB> is none.
RC> AS>> Would you care to make one?
RC> You dunce.
AS> You know, some might think name calling is the sign of an
AS> immature mind...
RC> Sometimes, you've just gotta call a pile of shit a pile of shit.
RC> Can't your read what she already wrote?
AS> Sure.
RC> So *knowing* that she already gave it plenty of thought, and reached
RC> the conclusion that it can't be done, you ask her to do it. You dunce!
I gave him an algorithm and have gotten silence in return.
I suspec that if he answers it, he'll say that I'm requiring
his god to come up with a miracle. That's quite all right;
he claims his god does it fairly regularly (in the past), so
it should be no challenge now, what with a whole committe
pulling for him.
Besides, if he can't perform a miracle for the sake of his
reputation, and demands that we pray for ordinary things,
what's the point? Ordinary things come without any prayer,
if I recall correctly.
... That's the problem with the gene pool...No lifeguards
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Joseph Keenan
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 31 Jan 97 02:11:08
EID:332f 223f1160
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32f19b0c
REPLY: 1:273/416.0 2190a56d
>>As it stands, I think I know of only one proselytizing Wiccan
>>and none from any of the other pagan groups.
JK> It always amazed me to hear an x-ian say that you must come
to
JK> their Christ (which is a title and not a name) of your own free will.
JK> But at the same time that god says that if you don't believe in him
JK> you'll suffer for eternitity!
Why is it so difficult to understand? We have the free will to decide to
go to Heaven or Hell.. To follow God or Satan.. There is a choice involved,
just not as much as you might prefer.
JK> Also, to me, it seems that most well meaning x-ians seem to
pray
JK> on teh weak and those who think that they have hit rock bottom. When
JK> someone has hit rock bottom there is only one to go. Up. When those
out
JK> of luck people start to (think that they are starting to) heal the x-ian
JK> says that it is their god.
Actually, I was talking to a Pagan friend of mins about this not to long
ago. I will witness to people, but I try not to if I know they are vulnerable.
Seems to me, if one becomes a Christian when they are their weakest, their
new faith won't be that strong anyway, and they would likely just turn from
God, anyway. Besides, if my faith is for real, people should be able to
see the truth of it even when their faith is at its strongest.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Joseph Keenan
|Sub: Think about it
|Date: 31 Jan 97 02:16:34
EID:ba8f 223f1200
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32f19c52
REPLY: 1:273/416.0 2190a570
JK> asked himself so simple
JK> I seriously doubt that a twelve year old child can comprehend
JK> ANY religion!
WHy is that? It is just an age.. I think all kids are different, and it
would be an individual thing. Some are highly mature for their age.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Joseph Keenan
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 31 Jan 97 02:19:04
EID:e17e 223f1260
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32f19ce8
REPLY: 1:273/416.0 2190a574
GT>>I know lots of Pagans, but only a couple that would
GT>>qualify as Pagan scum.
>>find that the percentages are a lot higher over on your side.
GT>> Ves thu heil,
JK> According to most of them anyone who does not beilieve in their
JK> god is scum. I wonder if they ever read the bit in their book about
JK> loving your neighbors.
I sure have, and as I know some Pagans real well, I could never say that
they are all scum. Religious disagreement doesn't have to mean one of the
two has flaws in his/her character.
By the same token, the stereotype that all Christians are dogmatic morons
isn't quite fair or accurate either..
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 31 Jan 97 08:19:00
EID:9b69 223f4260
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32f1f144
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 30197766
MB> deprive us of the chance to learn from life.
KY> YEs, we are human, so we are going to be wrong, from time to
KY> time, but when you are speaking of a life or death situation,
KY> you just better be VERY sure of yourself..
KY> Having the right to be wrong is a great thin, but should we
KY> allow that, if it means another's life is ended?
MB> There is no consensus on whether or not it is the life of another
MB> human being. And THAT is the real issue when debating abortion.
MB> Since I don't know the answer to that question to the extent that
MB> I'm willing to foist my views off on the rest of society, I choose
MB> to decide for myself and let others do the same.
MB> I see some very serious pitfalls in the absolutist position that
MB> it is a human being from the moment of conception. I see that as a
MB> VERY extreme viewpoint with nothing but theology to back it up.
MB> Since we do not live in a theocracy, and I have no desire to live
MB> in one, I see the freedom to choose as the right one for society
MB> as a whole.
It is no more an extreme view than it is to believe that we are human beings.
Nothing to back it up? I guess movement, brainwaves, heartbeats, etc. don't
count?
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 31 Jan 97 08:21:42
EID:2395 223f42a0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32f1f1e6
REPLY: 1:229/622 32f0f1c9
KY> I know most would disagree, but I do not believe there is any
KY> population problem at all.. More like a distribution problem, than
KY> one having to do with over population.
DH> You appear to be proud of your utter lack of education.
More like my knowledge.. Really, the problem is that everything hasn't
been properly distributed. I think if it was, you would find that the world
would have a long ways to go before it would be too too populated.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 31 Jan 97 08:23:46
EID:a29e 223f42e0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32f1f262
REPLY: 1:229/622 32f0f3a5
KY> Christian.
DH> What appears to be completely escaping your weak grasp of
DH> reality is that *they* say they are Christians. From here,
DH> I see them claiming it, and I see you claiming it.
DH> I don't really give a damn if either one (or both) of you
DH> is right so long as you keep your beliefs to yourself. The
DH> KKK boyos have exactly the same right to claim Christianity
DH> as you do.
y6@eY{+0+0+0+00000000[(f
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 31 Jan 97 08:33:04
EID:9728 223f4420
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32f1f490
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0f101f80
ky> Actually, it is a horrible analogy. WHy? Because Christianity has
ky> nothing to do with hatred, and if one is filled with hatred, I might
ky> question his Christianity..
FR> Nearly every race hate organization in the United
FR> States is a Christian organization which meets in
FR> Christanic churches. The KKK, Aryan Nations, Church of
FR> Jesus Christ Christian, all the Identity brand names,
FR> the Sword and the Cross, Mormons, Baptists, Focus on
FR> the Family... they're all hate organizations, Ken, and
FR> every one of them Christian.
All hate organizations? Even Focus On the Family?!? Would you care to
elaborate? WHile I am not exactly the biggest supporter of the ministry,
I cannot recall anything of hatred coming from them.
Of course I do not see it with the Mormons, Baptists, Sword and the Cross,
etc., either..
The Christian Identity churches are a problem.. I will not say every one
of them are full of hate, just as I cannot say that every single one is
Christian. It depends on the individual church, but unfortunately some
who apparently like to revise history give Christians in general a bad name.
FR> Pretending your death cult is anything other than hate
FR> is to deny all of the death cult's history. That's
FR> silly and stupid.
I can say I am a Wiccan, that does not mean I am one. Saying that one is
a Christian(what the hate groups do) and actually being a Christian are
two different things.
And, oh yes, a "hate group" is one of hatred towards other groups, not necessarily
just a group that disagrees with your beliefs.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Direct Dialling
|Date: 31 Jan 97 08:41:44
EID:71ba 223f4520
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32f1f698
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 0f101f81
ky> Not at all.. There are still several, but seeing how we are in end
ky> times, there obviously would be less true
ky> CHristians than there used to
ky> be..
FR> Ah, yes... The latest "end times..." about the
FR> 7,000th since Paul/Saul created the death cult.
FR> Perhaps you should actually crack open your paper idol
FR> and read what it says, Ken. The so-called "Jesus"
FR> mythos was made to claim that it would return within
FR> the lifetimes of its followers.
FR> Guess what? They're all dead.
The Bible never says that it was to happen within their time. And seeing
how this is the first time with our technology that it could happen, and
I see prophecy being fulfilled all over the place, what with current events
and all,
we must be living in end times.
FR> Every death cultist thought their generation was the
FR> "end times," Ken. It's ego which makes death cultists
FR> want to pretend that the world won't continue after
FR> they themselves die.
FR> Pretty sick, actualy, but then we're talking Christianity here.
I do personally feel very strongly that it will happen during my life time,
but I am specifically talking about the rapture, the end for the Christians
on Earth. Even when that happens some Christians will still be around,
as some will newly get saved.
Difference is many of those groups give a date or say it will happen in
their life time for a fact, I just think it will, and realize that no date
was set, as we don't know the time, but only the "season."
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 31 Jan 97 19:51:36
EID:c690 223f9e60
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32f29398
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 32eb0b04
JF> vile behaviour, but (as Hitler found out) Christianity doesn't like
JF> them.
DC> Tough luck, bucko, but Hitler _was_ an xian.
Nice try, but no, he was an Occultist. Look at his beliefs, rather than
the propaganda you have been fed.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Bacteria and Slime
|Date: 31 Jan 97 22:39:28
EID:e281 223fb4e0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32f2baf0
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32e8b0f6
AS> Yep. Do you have a better suggestion for how to test whether prayer
AS> actually works or not?
Jd> Cancel your health insurance, and see Beny Hinn.
WHy Benny Hinn? He has nothing to do with it.. It is the power of God,
not the power of Hinn..
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 31 Jan 97 23:35:50
EID:4d70 223fbc60
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32f2c826
REPLY: 1:3603/210 2933357d
KY> Accept it or not, Christianity is about love..
RC> So keep the good parts, but dispose of the silly superstitions!
You must know of a Bible I don't, because I cannot think of any..
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 31 Jan 97 23:37:02
EID:9757 223fbca0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32f2c86e
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f15c2d
Jd> On 28 Jan 97 19:01:54 Ken Young wrote to Katherine Wintersnight...
KY> Why think abnout homosexuality? Maybe because I was replying to
KY> what someone else said..
KY> Also, because I realize it is an unnatural lifestle, that was
KY> never meant to be.
Jd> I presume then, that you live the 'natural' lifestyle, Ken!
Jd> Must be tough going nude this time of year!
Seeing how clothes are biblical, I see no problem with it.
But one cannot say the same for homosexuality.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Direct Dialling
|Date: 31 Jan 97 23:39:28
EID:c28f 223fbce0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32f2c900
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f15c2e
DC> Leaving only you, of course, as the "one true xian".
KY> Not at all.. There are still several, but seeing how we are in
KY> end times, there obviously would be less true CHristians than
KY> there used to be..
Jd> We've been in 'end times' for two thousand years now, Ken.
Jd> And, duh, how have you determined the decline in real true blue
Jd> christians - has attendance in your church gone down? Maybe they sold
Jd> their homes and are waiting on a mountain top for the end?
By looking around me, and seeing how society's morals have gone south, so
to speak.. Our society is decaying because of lack of Christian beliefs.
No, my church's numbers keep going up.. Of course, part of that may because
it just started about 3 months ago..
Jd> Number of Jehoover's Witlessness 'end of the world' predictions since
Jd> 1900 = 4. Unfortunately, they're still here.
Yes, but I am not a Jevovah's Witness. I would never set a specific date..
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 31 Jan 97 23:43:04
EID:de0b 223fbd60
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32f2c9d8
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f15c2f
Jd> That's been tried already - the period known as "THE DARK AGES".
KY> Well, what are we in now, the "age of enlightenment?"
KY> No, actually there was no time when society in general went
KY> according to God's will completely.. Nor will there be, on this
KY> earth, anyway..
Jd> Gee,Ken, I thought the universe was created according to god's plan?
We go against God, but yes, ultimately, the end results will be God's plan..
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: Rabbit Hutch (1:270/420)
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: A toast to dracula
|Date: 31 Jan 97 23:44:26
EID:2335 223fbd80
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32f2ca2a
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f15c31
Jd> Symbolic of christian cannibilism?
KY> No, but thanks for playing, anyway..
KY> It is symbolic for the sacrifice CHrist made on the cross, so we
KY> could be saved from sin.
Jd> Lemme get this straight - a sip of grape juice, over which the priest
Jd> has uttered some magik words, from a germ-laden communal cup, in a toast
Jd> to a dead man on a stick, will ease the guilt burden of your having
been
Jd> born guilty of the hideous crime that your forebears Adam and Lucy
Jd> ate an apple in god's orchard, which the dead man on the stick died
for
Jd> so that you needn't feel guilty any more. And, you need to do this on
a
Jd> regular basis.
Jd> I wonder why people have trouble seeing the sense and logic in that?
Maybe because you don't understand it..
It is simply symbols to remember what Christ did for us.
WHat's so ddifficult? We are all sinners, so to save us from sin, Jesus
bought us a chance for eternal freedom. And Christians remember this, during
communion.
ANd it doesn't have to be on a regular basis. ALl up to the indiviudals..
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 31 Jan 97 23:48:36
EID:2c6e 223fbe00
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32f2cb24
REPLY: 1:229/622 32f229dd
P> Yes, I think so.. He is a God that actually forgives when His
P> children do wrong..
Jd> Then what does he need HELL for?
Because, if people won't accept God's gift, they have made their choice.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Jan deBoer
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 31 Jan 97 23:49:40
EID:169f 223fbe20
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 32f2cb64
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 32f24259
Jd> your three-headed 'pilot'.
P> Nope.. Maybe your ride has been bumpy, in which case I recommend
P> you change flights.. But mine as been smooth as silk.
Jd> Really - no chcken pox, acne, bill collectors, frustrations, staled
Jd> cars, burnt pots, blown fuses, dirty diapers, squalling kids, traffic
Jd> jams, stalled car,....etc., etc.
Jd> You must live at Lourdes and work-at-home!
Oh, sure.. Everyone has their troubles, but with God, anything can be done..
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Sue Alexander
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: God: Biggest Abortionist
|Date: 29 Jan 97 14:05:47
EID:e6d3 223d70a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 32f2d135
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Ed Mills <=-
RS> Yes, isn't it. Every fertilised egg that does not gain uterine
RS> wall implantation, and hence is aborted, is the fault of your
RS> God.
JS> Fault of sinful man and his 'science'.
EM> I was unaware that human reproduction was designed and implemented
EM> by human science.
JS> It wasn't. It was designed by God. The method you mention above,
JS> however, was designed by man.
EM> I didn't mention any "method." I was referring to reproduction in
EM> general. So what you're saying is that spontaneous abortion only
EM> occurs where there is artificial intervention? Given totally
EM> "natural" gestation, that never happens?
JS> No, there are natural miscarriages...
Yo, Jim...check the dictionary. A miscarriage IS a spontaneous
abortion. Even a "natural" one.
Sue
... Politically Correct: Euphemism for censorship
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
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|From: Sue Alexander
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: execute her ?
|Date: 31 Jan 97 01:39:46
EID:d09e 223f0ce0
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 32f2d136
-=> Quoting Mimi Milstein to Jim Staal <=-
JS> Here's my confession: If indeed Gwenny had not been
JS> divorced, then it stood to reason that Glenn was the first
JS> husband. I knew better, hence my quotes above end in
JS> question marks, and not periods. Call it trolling if you
JS> like, but I intended it to merely drive home my point that
JS> he was BS-ing about his lack of knowledge of pagan divorces.
MM> But Jim, you just MADE Glenn's point about pagan divorces
MM> (that they are scarce, hardly in existence, or whatever,
MM> and certainly not sitting on his doorstep).
MM> Gwenny was no pagan when she got divorced from her first
MM> husband. She was a Mormon. Ergo, NO PAGAN DIVORCE.
T'was pretty easy to understand, wasn't it?? I think that Jim was
just looking at it through the mist of what he WANTED to see, and jumped
on the point when he saw a chance. He tried to deny that he even said
it at all, but I wouldn't let him get away with it....
Sue
... Hit him over the head with a clue x 4.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: "might"
|Date: 29 Jan 97 07:35:43
EID:da6a 223d3c60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c48f
RC> Give it up, Al. You know I don't blame Jesus for anything, period.
Glad for that clarification, Robert. After all, when you make a flat
statement about Jesus doing it to the little chldren...it DOES tend to
leave a bad taste in one's mouth. If you had preceded it by
"mythical"---and yes, I did understand what you meant--I wouldn't have
taken you so to task. But when you make flat silly statements like that,
expect to be slapped down for it.
AS> I'm glad to see you backpedal on that.
RC> The only one doing the backpedal is you with the "well, he's not
RC> _entirely_ omniscient because he's not present in the rapist"
RC> addendum.
Omniscient? Just putting to one side the misrepresentation above, don't
you mean OmniPRESENT?
AS>> Do let me know what the REAL Robert Curry thinks...if there
AS>> is one.
RC> He thinks you're an idiot. And he's not alone in that assessment.
AS> Tsk, tsk. And yet Lynda castigates me for citing others who
AS> agree with me. Will she do so for you?
RC> ROFL! Who did I cite?
The nameless others who make you not "alone", obviously. Comprehension
problems?
RC> Thanks for providing yet more evidence that you are an idiot, Al.
Thanks for supplying us with high humor, Robert. You've made my day.
... Famous last words #11: No, it's NOT loaded.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: 'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 29 Jan 97 08:18:41
EID:8351 223d4240
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c490
AS> It argues for some sort of selection, process, though. The argument
AS> is, which is the more likely selection process? Ensemble, Design, etc.
RH> No, it does not, unless you agree that Natural Selection is an
RH> acceptable selection process. You must show that the constants could
RH> have other values. Tell you what, start with a similar idea; show how
RH> PI could have a different value.
Uh! Well, I might as well say it now and get it over with.
"B-b-but THAT's different!"
Okay, remember those long talks I had with Marty Goldberg where I argued
God's omnipotence does not cover the logically impossible? And one of the
cases I specifically mentioned that I didn't think even GOD could do was
a
world where one plus one equals three. So I think basic mathematics falls
under the class of simple logic (which nevertheless can take volumes to
fill) and it would be making a world which was logically inconsistent.
(I'm going to make a seperate answer to this and send it to Robert. See
if we can get him to join in without any of the stupid bickering back and
forth we do.)
Whereas, with the constants, there seems no particular reason that, say,
Planck's constant HAS to be that value. Or the mass of the electron
compared to the mass of the proton has to be that particular fraction. We
can easily imagine other values, which seem quite workable as
hypotheticals. Now there MAY be things constraining it. It may be that
there really IS only one set of logically self-consistent laws. But at
present, it is an unproven hypothesis. I would contend that the two
classes of values---the random values, seemingly unrelated to any logical
constraints, such as Plank's constant, or the mass of the electron
contrasted to the mass of the proton--and the classes of values derived
in
mathematics, unrelated to any physical values whatsoever...are very
different. That the first class of values are not necessarily restrained
to one answer by anything we can see, and the other are constrained by
logic to certain values, and other answers would be logically
inconsistent.
RH> Unevidenced. There are good reasons for "altruism" which you just
RH> keep ignoring.
AS> Not ignore. I just think they are incomplete,and do not address the
AS> more puzzling cases.
RH> The "more puzzling" cases are abberations.
Which nevertheless, form some of the highest aspirations of our species.
The gentle, nonviolent, altruistic being, whether called Jesus, or Buddha,
or Prometheus, is generally admired, even though rarely emulated.
... No sense in being pessimistic--- it won't work anyway.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: 'FIRST CAUSE' CRAP
|Date: 29 Jan 97 08:40:12
EID:7f33 223d4500
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c491
RH> No, it does not, unless you agree that Natural Selection is an
RH> acceptable selection process. You must show that the constants could
RH> have other values. Tell you what, start with a similar idea; show how
RH> PI could have a different value.
Robert, could we time out a minute on the stupid bickering we do back and
forth? I have a question to ask you. I could ask Rick, but I'm
specifically asking YOU, because this is something which I WOULD like to
draw your expertise on, and further would like to get away from the
snideness contest we both do for serious discussion for a change.
I have always felt (following Aquinas' lead) that there are some things
that God cannot do, whether we call Him "omnipotent" or not...the
logically inconsistent. I use a couple of examples, like valleys without
mountains, etc. And one of them is a world where one plus one equals
three, or five, or whatever. I would class these logically-consistent
truths as one of the basic framework for mathematics. I would feel that
God would have to work within such logically-consistent frameworks to make
anything...or, if you prefer, any class of universe should fall within
this framework, otherwise, its logical contradictions would render it
nonsensical, and nonexistent. For instance, a world where one can spot one
object...and then another object of the same class...and yet have three
objects...strikes me as totally against basic logic. (No cute evasions
like one of the objects being pregnant. Totally alike objects.)
So I class basic mathematical values as in a different class from the
other values discussed concerning the constants, where there seems no
logical foundation that a priori places them in that range.
That can and will be discussed with Roger, and you need not comment on
that if you don't want to. My question for you is: is that right? Are
there mathematical systems where such basic mathematical truths can be
changed? I know there are non-Euclidean systems of geometry, of course.
Are there mathematical systems where such can be circumvented that you
know of? Honestly curious and interested.
... Fly Heisenberg Air! Dunno where we are, but we're making good time.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: ...
|Date: 31 Jan 97 20:01:48
EID:3767 223fa020
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c492
RH> Because it IS! Kill your kids, Al, it's for their own good. Learn
RH> what self-sacrifice REALLY means.
AS> That far into self-sacrifice I'm not.
RH> I've never found any Christian who was. But why not? It's a noble
RH> ideal, self-sacrifice, so I'm told. And you DO want the best
RH> for your children, surely? So, if you would sacrifice your life,
RH> why NOT your soul?
DISCLAIMER: Anyone reading this, whether religious or not, do NOT kill
your kids, okay?
Sorry, but there are a lot of nuts out there...as we were.
In two of my kids' cases, it doesn't matter, Roger. Much as I love them,
I don't know if I will ever get them to the point where they will ever be
able to make an abstract decision to the point where I think they really
understand what a God is, what Jesus may have done for them, to the point
where they can make a conscious decision to accept or reject it. They very
much LIKE going to church...Jamie loves the music, Eric the puzzles used
in his Sunday School class, both love the elaborate playground that is
there. Oftentimes pretty girls volunteer to be an aide for Jamie, and he
likes THAT too. The other night on #irc Becke asked me what I would do if
my nonspeaking kids indicated they didn't go to church, if I would hire
a
babysitter or what. In such a case I would actually stay home myself and
let Barb and Brian go, since babysitters for autistic kids are rather
scarce who know what they're doing, and many of ours also go to church.
In
any case, although they LOVE going to church, I'm not sure how much they
abstract about what is going on. When they get more of a writing
capability, perhaps we'll see. But at this stage, I think they are covered
by the "innocence" that I think also earns young children salvation, in
cases of accidental death, etc. Remember, the CofC believes in adult
baptism. They haven't had that, and probably won't. We'll see.
Brian's case is a little different. He also loves going to
church...partly helped by having a girlfriend there...but I expect he will
as he gets older, question more and more and may reject Christianity
altogether. It wouldn't suprise me. We all go through rebellious stages,
and certainly I did with my father. He has an active imagination and a
fairly broad base of knowledge for a ten-year-old. (He got straight As on
his last report card, and usually he gets mostly As.) And yes, there's a
risk that he will reject it forever and ever, and further, even by my
admittedly elastic standards (hey, I won't deny I milk that statement in
Romans for all its worth), may someday do something damnable. Literally.
He might turn out to be the next Ted Bundy or Jeff Dalmer or Torquemada.
Obviously I don't THINK so, but I don't guess Jeff Dahlmer's father did
either when he was a child.
But by the same token, if he were killed...I'm sorry, I can't write, if
I kill him without a shudder and an instinctive revulsion...any possibility
of what Brian MIGHT be would be extinguished also. Some people DO help
others. Jonas Salk. Albert Schweitzer, my friend in Nigeria who runs a
missionary hospital and treats people without cost and without them having
to accept Christianity....things like that. There are many people who make
this world a little better, and help fight back the dispair that chokes
so
many people.
Further, I think people are here for a purpose, to give each other
someone to lean on. I think the idea that Brian might someday help people
and do some good in the world...not necessarily in a showy way, but help
at least one other person...is perfectly feasible. I am willing to take
the risk of Brian doing something damnable...to allow him to do something
very not damnable. Otherwise, if I weren't willing to take such a chance,
I wouldn't have had kids at all. I am glad they got a chance for
life...all of them...and think the world is a little better for their
presence. THIS world. They will reach the next one soon enough.
But then, I'm prejudiced.
Any similarity to God allowing to us exist is probably coincidental, but
not necesarily...
... Confuse people: start making sense.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: ...
|Date: 31 Jan 97 20:03:20
EID:3767 223fa060
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c493
AS> Whipping with a Roman scourge and being tortured on the cross for
AS> hours isn't sacrifice?..
RH> To an immortal God? No.
Roger, to a believer in an afterlife, we are ALL immortal. Yes, we will
die. Do did Jesus.
AS> Oh. Even when it's Himself on the cross?
RH> Yes.
Oh.
Okay, got a question. What could an immortal God do that WOULD be a
sacrifice.
AS> It is indeed. As the legislature sets the consequences of arson; and
AS> someone commits arson...they go to an assigned punishment. (But it
AS> still remains the arsonist's choice to do the arson.)
RH> Even if it's a psychological compulsion?
Some arson is compulsive; and some is not (like for insurance fraud). And
even when it is compulsive, the arsonists knows he runs the risk of being
caught...and dosn't blame the legislature for outlawing the act.
... System Halted. Press any key you like. It woln't help.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: ...
|Date: 29 Jan 97 10:37:00
EID:383e 223d54a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c494
AS> another might pray for a male harem, a third might pray for
AS> unlimited power. What will be really interesting if some of
AS> their prayers are contradictory. (Look at any war, for
AS> instance.)
MG> Saddling your almightly with humanity again? Tsk, Al...you'll be sent
MG> to the little room in hell reserved for non believers.
Wouldn't surprise me, corrupted by my friends....
But we're back at the God who cannot do logical inconsistencies thing
again. Which the above is a prime example.
... "Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate" - Ockham
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: ...
|Date: 29 Jan 97 10:47:15
EID:6808 223d55e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c495
AS> My problem is, Dan, as horrible as I think the rape is to God
AS> (and certainly is to me) I can't think of a good alternative
AS> which would not either crush the human spirit (put us in a
AS> divine dictatorship) or encourage sadism and cruelty (by
AS> negating the consequences of cruel deeds) which would warp
AS> the human spirit into something crueler and wilder. I will
AS> not deny it is troubling to me, as it is to any thinking
AS> person. I think it troubles God, as well.
MB> I gave you several alternatives that didn't involve negating
MB> anybody's freewill, and all you could do was find hypothetical
MB> "reasons" why they "wouldn't work," without a shred of evidence
MB> to support any of them.
Sorry, not being there at the time, and not being omniscient, you asked,
and I gave you some possible reasons. And made it clear they were only
POSSIBLE.
MB> You'd do anything to back up your god's indifference, it seems.
I'd certainly deny He is indifferent, yes. I sometimes believes He
withholds actions, for various reasons.
... This echo just gets weirder and weirder. Oh wait. That's me. Sorry.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: ...
|Date: 29 Jan 97 11:00:43
EID:54c1 223d5800
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c496
AS> Yeah?
MK> "Yeah?" ROFL! Yeah, Al.
You ROFL! over a simple "yeah"? Ahhh, well, they say little things amuse
little minds...
AS> You ever read Augustine's experience? Just a tad different from
AS> Einstein's insights...
MK> Wow. Two different humans had two different insights. One's were of
MK> magical beings that can't be shown to exist. Some insight. :-)
Hey, you're the one who invited a comparison between Einstein and
Augustine, not me.
AS> and doubtless, Einstein's were more useful.
MK> Yeah, they were, weren't they?
Glad you agree with me.
AS> Despite the fact, to his horror, they birthed the atom bomb.
MK> "Despite the fact, to Augustine's horror, they birthed the
MK> Inquisition."
Ummm. (A) The Inquisition was not founded on Augustinian principles
particularly and (B) Augustine didn't witness the Inquisition during his
lifetime, a trifling matter of roughly a thousand years being between
them, so he didn't have any horror of it, not having seen it.
MK> You got some kinda point you thought you were making, Al? Or you just
MK> avoiding the fact that you're spouting meaningless rubbish, and your
MK> "good example" was no example at all?
See above. And notice you are looking in the mirror.
... Ask every question. Question every answer.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: ...
|Date: 29 Jan 97 12:29:27
EID:54c1 223d63a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c497
AS> Hector's quick judgements strike again, rather.
MK> Hector's corrolary is confirmed. You debunk yourself, and you don't
MK> notice.
Yes, Hector. Since you didn't do it, I certainly didn't notice. The same
old Hector. Claiming victory before the answer was given.
AS>>> Obviously an infinite mind cannot be downloaded into a finite brain.
MK> Obviously an infinite mind cannot exist, else it would be quite
MK> apparent right here where I'm sitting. Hint: it's not. You're simply
MK> playing "let's pretend" again, Al, and making no sense. As usual.
LOL!!! By that logic, a larger thing we're a part of...like the
metagalactic cluster we're a part of...would be apparant right from where
you're sitting.
AS> ROFL!!! Coming from one who says to "fundies, no sense makes sense,
AS> right" all I can say is, you are being paid in your own coin.
MK>
'Tis an ill wind...do you LIKE giving me straight lines, Hec?
MK> As condescending bullshit goes, I give it a three. As
MK> a valid point, it still gets a zero.
"IS NOT!" is more succinct.
AS> But you will be quick to call anyone religious who disagrees with YOU
AS> a fundy, Hec/Mark.
MK> No, Al. You're aren't being called a fundy because you disagree with
MK> me. You're being called a fundy because you're acting like one.
Amazing. You used to call Mike a fundy. And he disagreed with you. You
used to call anyone I ever saw religious who disagreed with you a fundy,
who disagreed with you. Was Mike a fundy then, Mark/Hec?
AS> It's all right to believe in a God as long as one never dares think
there
AS> might be some physical consequences thereof.
MK> It's all right to believe anything you like about gods, Al. But when
MK> you tell us about it, don't expect us to believe you unless you've got
MK> some evidence. This has been explained to you many times, remember?
Yes. And I always answer back, the fact that the constants, in instance
after instance, fall only in the narrow range that will allow intelligent
life to develop, to start with.
HP>> I don't think you're intelligent enough.
AS> Ahhhh, yes. The same old Hector. If someone disagrees with you, they
AS> aren't intelligent.
MK> I don't think you're not intelligent because you disagree with me.
I
MK> think you're not intelligent because you behave in a stupid manner.
MK> Thanks for bearing me out.
Typo. It should be thanks for bearing with YOUR argument ad hominems...and
your "ill winds".
... Send $20 and I will double your IQ or no money back
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: ...
|Date: 31 Jan 97 20:05:31
EID:54c1 223fa0a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c498
AS> That He had to go through it.
MK>
I would advise eating at a slightly more expensive soup kitchen, Hec/Mark.
MK> No, Al, that you think [sic] there was both without a
MK> scrap of evidence or a logical reason.
Tactitus' mentioning that Jesus died under Pontius Pilate isn't evidence
for Jesus' dying under Pontius Pilate? (Please note, Hector, that I said
evidence, but not conclusive evidence.)
HP>> "I dreamed I was an ant!"
HP>> "Oh, you poor dear!"
MK> Some sacrifice, huh, Al?
MK> You're still making no sense, Al B.
Neither are you. And REPEATING it. Remarkable.
... If he was a car, all of his idiot lights would be now be flashing.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: ...
|Date: 29 Jan 97 12:51:37
EID:54c1 223d6660
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c499
MK>
Possibly you might consider a different diet...your current one will not
endear you to any co-workers or neighbors...
MK> Indeed.
A friend in need is a friend...
AS> Odd. I was under the impression that He showed Thomas the wounds,
AS> even afterwards.
MK> Gee, you mean the wounds that didn't harm him because he was a god?
MK> ROFL! Hector's Law strikes again.
???Hector mine, if you think even in folklore gods don't get harmed, I
suggest you consult Balder, Odin impaled by Gungir (his spear),
Hapheasteus, thrown from Mt. Olympus by Zeus and rendered crippled, etc.,
etc.
HP>> No you've just repeated the unevidenced claim that
HP>> people touched him.
AS> ROFL!!! Do you have an evidenced claim that people touched Caesar?
MK> ROFL! Al, you're tripping. Try "do you have an evidenced claim that
MK> people touched Caesar's ghost?" There you'd have a comparable claim.
MK> Don't try to hide the ludicrousness of the claims you make, Al. Just
MK> back 'em up.
Eyewitness testimony (John). Backed by several other second accounts of
the time, but obviously drawing on a different tradition (the Synoptics,
unless Matthew is first person), a slew of letters (Paul, James, Peter),
etc.
AS> Interesting mass dream, then.
MK>
We see what you think with...
MK> We've no evidence that there were masses dreaming of
MK> it, Al, or that masses saw it. Or that _anyone_ saw it (though
MK> certainly someone wrote down a pipedream story that caught on -- that's
MK> clear :-).
And convinced quite a few through different accounts of the same
event....within twenty to thirty years...in a world empire where commerce,
though not as brisk as ours, but still was nothing to sneeze at--of the
original event, if it happened.
AS> I still hold positions that haven't been debunked...
MK> You just never talk about them here, right? Only in church? ROFL!
Nope, Hector mine. I'm talking about the anthropic coincidences, altruism
above and beyond societal and genetic necessity, and the inexplicability
of what the disciples did...without a diety to explain it.
You may remember?
... You think time heals everything? Try waiting in a doctor's office.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: ...
|Date: 29 Jan 97 12:54:12
EID:54c1 223d66c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c49a
AS> That far into self-sacrifice I'm not.
MK> Well, give one of your kids a knife and let him kill the others. That
MK> far into self-sacrifice you claim your gods are, after all.
No thank you, Mark.
... He's so cheap: He took out fire insurance on his cigars.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: ...
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:01:29
EID:54c1 223d6820
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c49b
AS> That far into self-sacrifice I'm not.
MK> So let one of your kids get a knife kill the others, Al. Your gods
do
MK> it all the time, according to you...
Some jokes are not very funny,Mark.
MK> It _was_ a stupid thing to say, you know. Now, decide that killing
MK> infidels is okay and you, too, can get that old time religion.
Jihads'r'us?
... I walk the fine line between fantasy and science fiction.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: ...
|Date: 31 Jan 97 20:09:14
EID:54c1 223fa120
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c49c
AS> OTOH, it is clear that God does NOT heed the prayers of the wicked.
AS> John 9:31. "Now we know that God heareth not sinners;"
MK> By their paradoxes shall ye know them. You've just made it impossible
MK> for sinners to pray for salvation, Al. :-)
Perhaps you have heard the verse, "I came not to call the righteous, but
sinners to repentence..."?? Mark 2:17. Or James 4:8. "Draw nigh to God,
and He will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners, and purify
your hearts, ye doubleminded." Or 1 John 1:19. "If we confess our sins,
He
is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all
unrighteousness." The point is that you recognize you did wrong, and ask
for forgiveness for it.
... I think. Therefore I am DANGEROUS.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: ...
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:15:08
EID:3f42 223d69e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c49d
DR> Yeah, what's with that blanket term anyway? :) I see it as an
DR> expression of ignorance myself. Most people who lavish this term about
DR> the cybersphere wouldn't know a "true" fundy from a Rabbi. LOL
It's a quick epithet to give when they don't want to treat someone as a
thinking individual. Like other bigoted terms.
... I have become comfortably numb.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: ...
|Date: 31 Jan 97 20:15:15
EID:3f42 223fa1e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c49e
DR> Man!,
DR> Such language from that young lady (lady?) and referring to the
DR> Holy Resurrection as a myth. This is truly a colorful, lively, and
DR> salty group in here. :) I wonder if people like this realize that they
DR> distinguish Christianity as being all the "more" truthful when they
DR> compare it to veritable myths?
Actually, Dave, this is a clever, intelligent group in the main that is
sometimes a pleasure to disagree with. They are challenging and
interesting in the main, and leave nothing unspared, which makes them
quite refreshing in some ways. This is like a religious food fight, and
it's a good place to examine one's faith, or lack of it.
... This echo just gets weirder and weirder. Oh wait. That's me. Sorry.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: A Serious Question
|Date: 29 Jan 97 13:27:53
EID:9098 223d6b60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c49f
AS> Interesting assertion. Please delineate such a change in constants,
and
AS> then devise a biology that will work, in theory.
MK> Magic works. We get matter held together by manna, and dragons.
Hmmm. I suppose you think that has some relation to the preceding. But it
seems hallucinatory.
MK> Face it, Al, your narrow idea of constant changing is ludicrous. If
MK> all you can do is spout the same old, tired bullshit, I'll just have
to
MK> find someone else to play with and let you make an idiot of yourself
MK> _by_ yourself.
MK> Oh, do I have to ask your permission not to post to you anymore?
If you did, it is granted. And PLEASE change your diet.
MK>
See?
MK> Tough. Bye.
Don't let the door hit your behind on the way out. It seems explosive.
... I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: absence of belief
|Date: 29 Jan 97 14:12:18
EID:e77f 223d7180
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4a0
AS> Inquiry is dependent on our presupposition that the orderly laws
AS> are out there to find.
RC> Can't you see beyond your nose? Are you truly so ignorant of all the
RC> everyday orderly things that inspired our ancestors to categorize
RC> (some) things in a more methodical manner?
Sure. To the point that they categorized such things in what both you and
I would agree are truly superstitious....like walking under a ladder, They
certainly saw patterns. And took no account of whether there were any real
consequences. They didn't test it by presupposing there were deeper laws.
They just accepted it.
But those who thought there were deep LAWS to the universe...that the
apparent chaos of (some) things couldn't be real, but there must be
something more to it...that they started investigating.
RC> No guesswork or "belief" is required when these things are observed
RC> regularly to begin with. Observation and evidence were the beginning
Yes. When.
RC> of science, not supernaturalism and superstition.
I agree it was not with superstition. Supernaturalism? Only in the sense
that they thought regular laws were ordained by God.
RC> Please get a decent secular education, Al, before embarrassing
RC> yourself even further.
I never ever went to anything BUT a secular school, Robert. Yourself?
AS> No; but we don't look for explanations for apparant orderliness.
RC> So you're saying that no one among our ancient ancestors looked for
RC> explanations regarding, for example, the orderly path that the sun
RC> appears to follow in the sky? Are you being serious, Al?
Only if I said that, which I didn't. They certainly looked for such order
in regular things...and then often attributed it to disorderly dieties,
giving each natural force its own diety. But when they attributed all
nature to one force, then they started looking for underlying order in
other things. Not all. Certainly there were scientists and pre-scientists
who thought that way. But many distinguished historians of the history of
science, like Whitehead, think that belief in a Lawgiver, combined with
Greek philosophy, was the foundation of the scientific revolution.
RC> Certainly I do, because it does. Do you deny that, too?
AS> No.
RC> Gee, I thought you'd've gone for broke.
No doubt.
AS> Then why don't we accept the chaotic part as being that, and not
AS> bother to investigate further?
RC> How will we know it's really chaotic _unless_ we investigate further?
Exactly. But oddly enough the impulse to investigate further than the
surface was most done when one combined a belief in a single Lawgive with
the logic of Greek philosophy.
AS> Even chaos theory is an attmpt to bring some semblence of
AS> predictability to some parts of what appears on the surface
AS> to be disorder.
RC> ROFL! Please do lecture me about chaos theory, Al. That should be
RC> almost as amusing as your previous lectures about pi. (Hint: when
RC> you are merely bullshitting, you won't get away with it in front
RC> of someone who is far more familiar with the subject than you even
RC> *pretend* to be.)
No lecture. Simple question. Does not chaos theory not make SOME parts of
existence, previously unpredictable, at least slightly more so?
Yes?
Or no?
... Certainty is for those who can't handle reality.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: absence of science
|Date: 29 Jan 97 14:40:58
EID:b6db 223d7500
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4a1
AS> Suppose you try to eliminate variables. If some of the variables
AS> are disorderly, and obey no natural law, you CAN'T. You are
AS> doomed before you begin.
RC> As far as we know, some ARE disorderly, Al.
Very few, per se.
RC> Not only is *belief* in an absolutely orderly universe not required
RC> for the practice of a scientific methodology, Al, but an absolutely
RC> orderly universe isn't necessary, either.
But a belief in a MOSTLY orderly universe seems to be...
AS> No result could be trusted, especially if it was negative.
RC> Because you say so.
Because of basic scientific methodology.
RC> Sure, Al. Your dogma has to come first, no matter that there are
RC> scientists who _do_ perform science without your supposedly required
RC> belief in an absolutely ordered universe. Heh. Pull the other one!
After you.
AS> You couldn't eliminate the variables.
RC> ROFLMFAO! You're really not at all familiar with how physisicts,
RC> for instance, actually perform their work, are you? Because
RC> if you were, you'd never have said something so outrageously, so
RC> preposterously funny.
Please elucidate. Are you saying in an experiment, you do NOT try to
eliminate any outside variables that are not being tested for? If you
are...then doubtless...the physicists you know are of kind that develop
perpetual motion machines.
And if that is NOT what you are saying...how do you eliminate outside
variables when you cannot predict how they will react?
RC> Why have you failed to account for the scientist who has
RC> neither belief, or even zero beliefs?
AS> I don't have to; it's in their mindset, whether they realize
AS> it or not;
RC> Al is omniscient! He knows all! LOL!
As you know better than the cosmologists?
AS> but it is at heart a belief, in that it is not evidenced
AS> and unprovable.
RC> So you asert that people who have no beliefs "DO TOO" have beliefs.
RC> Very fundy of you.
Certainly there are implications fostered by culture that are accepted
without question, Robert. I doubt if many of us reason out WHY we aren't
cannibals, for instance. We just accept the mindset without question.
... The floggings will continue until morale improves.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: absence of sense
|Date: 31 Jan 97 20:20:55
EID:1d65 223fa280
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4a2
RC> Al, you hopeless idiot -- he did agree with my statement that
RC> belief is not required for scientists to perform science.
RC> Read on:
AS>> "Although it is PURELY AN ACT OF FAITH that the universe
AS>> should be this way, almost all scientists BELIEVE it."
RC> Notice the "almost?"
RC> I.e., whatever his opinion may be, he KNOWS that it isn't required.
(Giggle) Let's read the whole statement out again, shall we? When you
parse it out like that, you miss something important.
(Quoting Davis again.)
Science is predicated on the assumption that nature is both ordered and
rational. Scientists believe we can come to understand the world, at least
in part, through the exercise of reasoning. Although it is purely an act
of faith that the universe should be this way, almost all scientists believe
it.
(End quote)
Do we see any sort of qualification in front of "science is predicated"?
And if you make a big deal out of "almost" does that not still imply that
the majority of scientists feel that way? Why is that, I wonder, Robert?
AS> LOL!!! Yes, I did. Did you notice the "it is PURELY AN ACT
AS> OF FAITH that the universe should be that way".
RC> When someone takes it as an act of faith, as he does, then OF COURSE
RC> it is an act of faith.
RC> I have no argument with the fact that some people do take things
RC> on mere unevidenced faith. I don't encourage it or recommend it,
RC> but I do recognize that it happens. Why can't you recognize in turn
RC> that there are those who do _not_ operate on such "faith?"
See below, Robert, where I say "certainly".
RC> He recognizes that there are scientists do -NOT- believe as
RC> he does.
AS> Certainly; instead they rely on a worldview that takes it
AS> on...implicitedly.
RC> And of course you are licensed to speak for them, and tell them what
RC> they "believe" or "accept implicitly in their worldview" even better
RC> than they themselves. Your arrogance apparantly knows no bounds.
Robert, PLEASE think this through. Suppose you do a minor experiment for
a
fifth grade science class. Suppose, you try to show that solids are
usually smaller and denser than liquids. And you find one
exception...water, which expands and floats in its liquid medium. You will
certainly repeat the experiment, to make sure that water is the only
substance among those you tested that expands when frozen.
Now, after repeated testing, you have satisfied yourself of this very
basic fact (which nevertheless all life on Earth depends on, otherwise we
would get frozen rivers, lakes, etc.). Do you say to yourself, "Well,
it's good for now...but it MIGHT be a series of coincidences, and might
change at any time"?
Or do you believe in the order of the universe that you have
demonstrated several times? Don't say we have established that. We have
only established that the experiment works that way for x number of times.
If such laws were random, that still does not mean there is any guarentee
that it will fall out that way X +1 number of times.
RC> No; why can't you recognize, as Paul Davies does, that there are
RC> scientists who perform science without any supposedly required
RC> belief in absolute orderliness?
See above, to what I'm responding "certainly" to. But it still is implicit
in the scientific endeavour, Robert, that the universe DOES act in an
orderly fashion.
RC> You love it so much that you evaded the question. Some love, that.
Hardly. Answered it rather.
AS> You have to rely on the assumption that the universe is both
AS> ordered and rational, Robert.
RC> Ah, not content to speak for every scientist without exception, you
RC> now presume to speak for me as well. As a matter of fact, however,
RC> I do not have to "believe" any such thing: I _observe_ orderliness.
RC> That makes mere belief quite superfluous indeed.
In all cases? In all ways? You always observe orderliness?
RC> Now if you mean to assert I have to believe in absolute orderliness,
RC> then please continue. I haven't laughed this much in years!
May I return the compliment.
RC> You are even outdoing Brawley's "zero is not a number" trick.
By observing that science presupposes order? Whatta marroon.
... And now, fresh from the sack of Europe, Ghengis Khan & the Hordelets
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: ABSENSE OF BELIEF
|Date: 29 Jan 97 15:02:32
EID:bbef 223d7840
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4a3
RH> Oh, that's right, you don't accept the bible as the inspired
RH> Word of God. Sorry, I forgot...
Well...let's just say I think that Word includes parables...from the
Garden of Eden, to Jonah, to the Prodigal Son.
RH> Weak argument at best, Al.
AS> Inapproiate analogy, Roger.
RH> Not for a real True Christian (tm)
RH> Heretic.
Who was it that said every great truth begins as a heresy...?
... "Let's get out of here Mulder, as fast as we can!" - Dana Scully
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: Afraid of mortality?
|Date: 29 Jan 97 15:08:16
EID:c3bc 223d7900
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4a4
AS>>> The reality where a universe can appear in a Big Bang, with literally
AS>>> nothing before it...perhaps not even time or space?
MK> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
HP>> As has been pointed out to you many times before, Al, "before time"
is
HP>> meaningless. The universe doesn't seem to have "appeared." It seems
AS> ...and where above did I say there was anything before time?
MK> Underlined it for you. You're a bit of a thicko, aren't you?
"Nothing" is "anything"? Welcome to the Village, Number Six...
AS> Fine. "BEHAVE" like a wave or a particle. A difference that makes no
AS> difference is no difference.
MK> It's a difference that makes quite a large difference, Al. Neither
MK> waves nor particles, in the classical sense, engage in atemporal
MK> handshaking, for example. Don't confuse, yet again, the finger with
MK> the moon toward which it is pointing, Al.
Let's not forget the original point, Hector, which was how odd "ordinary"
reality is. The fact that any entities engage in atemporal handshaking is
another point in my favor, or can "behave" like waves or a particle...the
same entity.
AS> Love of truth.
MK>
Love of beans, however, in your case.
MK> So now you define "imaginary" as "truth?" How
MK> typically Orwellian of you, my dear fundy.
Ah, but whether it is imaginary or not...IS the question, Hec.
... A man of courage is also full of faith. - Cicero
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: Al B.
|Date: 31 Jan 97 20:25:53
EID:a14a 223fa320
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4a5
HP> But far more boring. Would you like some infinite, tasteless cheese
HP> with your incessant, inane whining, Al?
AS> No thanks, Mark.
MK> What's wrong, Al? You simply _must_ have some cheese with that
MK> whining of yours. I insist.
And as I said following it...
AS> With your (gentle fart)s
You cut the cheese enough.
MK>
I don't wish to be crude, but did you ever think of renting yourself out
as a source of methane gas?
MK> Don't you like them as well as your s?
MK> Should I notify your family?
You might. They would enjoy the laugh. But no, I'm enjoying your gentle
flatulance (save in an olafactory sense). They give me an interesting
array of straight lines to choose punchlines for.
Or hadn't you noticed?
... Cattle in orbit - the herd shot round the world.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: assertion by Al
|Date: 31 Jan 97 20:26:22
EID:3206 223fa340
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4a6
AS> Well, an atheist doesn't believe in gods.
RC> You should realize now that I don't believe in anything (let alone
RC> gods) on purpose. I do, however, KNOW that gods exist. As mental
RC> constructs and figments of imagination at least.
Good. Then you agree with me above. As an atheist, you don't believe in
God.
AS> You were not addressing a member of the English peerage.
AS> So...which Good Lord were you calling on?
RC> The good lord of the rising suns (will you next call "sunrise"
RC> some sort of "contradiction," too, Al?).
Odd. You asserted it was the Great Desilliated One below.
RC> Have you been snorting pepper? The Good Lord, none other than
RC> the Great Dodecaheaded One, Herself, has commanded against
RC> the use of pepper. It's blasphemous -- you are placing your
RC> soul in peril.
AS> Ah. Does that mean you are the "salt of the earth"?
RC> I'm far spicier than that! Perhaps that makes me a very naughty
RC> Dodecaheadist.
The picante sauce of the Earth, perhaps?
AS> But of course, if that were truly the case, you SHOULD have
AS> said, "Great LADY!" GDO's a she.
RC> In some of Her incarnations, but not all.
Ahhh...I'm a Pepper, you're a Pepper, wouldn't you like to be a Pepper
too?
AS> In what sense is she your "Lord"?
RC> In the same sense that She is *yours*, Al. Think about it.
In a negative sense?
AS> BTW, if you're an atheist, she can't be your god.
RC> Oh, no -- you wouldn't allow that, would you? LOL!
She IS your god?
AS> Would she be your owner? Your keeper, perhaps?
RC> Yours, rather, though you don't know it yet.
Welcome to stream of consciousness theatre...
RC> As one of Her avatars said: "You do not understand. But you *will*."
She was my second grade teacher?
... Penny for your thoughts.. Hey! You owe me some change!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: BACTERIA AND EVOLUTIO
|Date: 30 Jan 97 07:17:58
EID:b535 223e3a20
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4a7
AS> But oddly enough, science went along quite well under theists who
AS> assumed a Creator...like the list of scientists I sent to others. Why
AS> is that, if assuming a god-explanation is so limiting?
RH> It's because they did not let their religion interfere with their
RH> science, Al. They did not say "God did it and I need look no further",
RH> they said "God did it and I want to find out HOW ..."
EXACTLY!!! It is a mindset entirely consistent with keeping theism AND
science. If anything, it adds an impetus to finding out, making
discovering the wonders of God's creation almost a religious duty. It IS
religion's fault if they go for the first one. But many early, and some
later scientists, saw it the second way. I do myself.
... Don't ask me. The cats are in charge around here.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 31 Jan 97 20:27:45
EID:c3aa 223fa360
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4a8
AS> You know, some might think name calling is the sign of an
AS> immature mind...
RC> Sometimes, you've just gotta call a pile of shit a pile of shit.
Well, Robert, you will forgive me if I answers your posts slowly or not
at
all. I got about twenty posts into this reply packet, and then I realized
something. (Out of some eighty responses.)
You're BORING. When your invective was at least inventive, you were
amusing. But I was answering your every post (and I still may) and then
realized to no purpose. You are never going to read any books recommended
to find out whether there is any truth in what I am saying. It is an
exercise in futility, and is boring me to tears.
So, you will excuse me if I attend to other responses first, and not
necessarily to all of THOSE either. I will answer you back at my
discretion and leisure.
... Confuse people: start making sense.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: BARBARIC CHRISTIAN RI
|Date: 30 Jan 97 07:51:39
EID:1fee 223e3e60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4a9
AS> Yep. Also wrote WHEN WORLDS COLLIDE with--Bulmer? and AFTER WORLDS
RH> DamnedifIknow. Not one (two) of his better works IMHO. I prefer his
RH> non-fiction anyway.
I have a love in my heart for GLADIATOR, though, despite the deus ex
machina ending. Of course, given my liking of comic books, that's almost
required.
AS> COLLIDE. The comic book hero Superman is in some ways Hugo Danner (of
AS> GLADIATOR) with a WHEN WORLDS COLLIDE type origin.
RH> What was the one where the sexes vanished to one another?
Don't think I read that one. Was that one of his last novels?
... I was not CREATING a disturbance, I was improving one already there.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: BOOTSTRAPPING UP, UP
|Date: 30 Jan 97 07:53:17
EID:39b0 223e3ea0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4aa
AS> And "the night sky is beautiful tonight...it's full of
AS> stars"...doesn't mean that the stars are within the atmosphere. Or
to
AS> say "the moon in the
AS> sky" doesn't mean the moon is within the atmosphere either.
AS> "Sky" can mean everything above one, out to infinity, or it CAN, as
AS> you rightly note, mean just the atmosphere. Either's possible.
RH> But when those phrases got started, That's EXACTLY what they thought.
"The communications satellite is in the sky", then. We used to look at
Telestar and Sputnik, back when such things were new and different, and
talk about it that way.
... And now for something completely different.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Christianity and Scie 1/2
|Date: 30 Jan 97 08:07:17
EID:b148 223e40e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4ab
-=> Quoting David Ragland to Al Schroeder <=-
DR> AS But oddly enough, science went along quite well under theists who
DR> assumed AS a Creator...like the list of scientists I sent to others.
DR> Why is that, if AS assuming a god-explanation is so limiting?
DR> You are right! Accepting a Creator is not limiting at all.
DR> Scientists who accept a creator compile scientific data just as any
DR> other would. It's such an absurd assertion to say that belief in God
DR> limits science.
(snip)
DR> The things that I have learned of science have not taken me from
DR> my belief in design but have rather taken me closer. Just look at the
DR> parameters of our existence. Scientists have identified over two
DR> dozen parameters of the universe that must be carefully fixed in value
DR> for any kind of conceivable life (not just life as we know it) to exist
DR> at any time in the history of the universe.
You're preaching to the choir, here, Dave. In fact, I have my own listing
of some of the anthropic coincidences off my web page (at
http://www.nashville.com/~Al.Schroeder/anthcoi.html">. I believe Andrew
Masten produced the same list you are using, or a very similar one.
A few are aware of this. The vast majority refuse to even look. on this
echo.
Three excellent books on this are COSMIC COINCIDENCES by Gribbin and
Rees, the more technical THE ANTHROPIC COSMOLOGICAL PRINCIPLE by Tipler
and Barrow, both of which make no theistic assumptions and can be read
with pleasure by a nontheist. A third if BEFORE THE BEGINNING by George
(also known as "G.F.R.") Ellis, who carries it further and reaches a
theistic conclusion. All of them are cosmologists of good statue in the
scientific community. Also of interest is Davies' GOD AND THE NEW PHYSICS
and THE MIND OF GOD.
... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Satan
|Sub: COMEDY
|Date: 30 Jan 97 08:11:55
EID:3e8b 223e4160
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4ac
AS> I've ALWAYS suspected that the true Satan regards Satanists as
AS> clowns...thanks for the confirmation, your Infernal Majesty.
Sa> You are most welcome >:-}>
AS> Besides, it always helps to have friends in low places...
Sa> Friends, Al?
Sa> Hmmmm.....
Well...acquaintances, perhaps.
... Just say "NOOOOOooooooooooo!" to Cthulhu.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: assertion by Al
|Date: 30 Jan 97 08:18:50
EID:fabd 223e4240
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4ad
HP>> You must be in stiches from all the "Goat Griefs!" from the atheists,
HP>> then, not to mention the "Holy Shit!" from the churchgoers. Bet you
HP>> bust a gut when someone besides a Hindu says "Holy Cow!" Odds are
HP>> you are unable to suppress chuckles when atheists say "Gosh!" right?
AS> Not particularly.
MK> Gee, Al,
Dave Barry will doubtless do a column about you next, as he did about the
cows' flatulance and the danger it was to the ozone layer.
MK> you have a double standard.
Rather, different taste in what is funny and what is not.
HP>>
AS> You can't get a much more downright stupid inanity than that.
MK> Gee, Al, it's my impression of you. Glad you liked it.
I do indeed. It gives me an endless supply of straight lines to do
scatalogical humor with.
MK> Hope you
MK> don't mind having proven Hector's Law correct yet again. :-)
You have changed the law? The poster with the greatest flatulance wins?
Then you do indeed, win, hands down.
... I'm not evil, I'm "morally challenged".
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: final exam
|Date: 30 Jan 97 08:32:54
EID:236d 223e4400
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4ae
AS> I daresay my ethics will outlast whatever you base yours on.
MK> Hector's Law strikes again.
MK> I base my ethics on _everything_, Al. As an atheist, I'm free to
On everything??? You are aware that some ethics contradict the others,
aren't you?
MK> choose among the best of what's been done in the past and what's being
MK> done in the present, including my own thinking. I daresay that
MK> procedure will outlast your holy coloring book, Al, as long as people
MK> continue to think for themselves.
SURE it will, Hec.
MK>
I feel sorry for the poor gerbil...
MK> Next you'll be telling me how not following your ethics
MK> will "damage my reputation." ROFL!
It can be damaged FURTHER?????
... If I want your opinion, I'll read it in your entrails.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: FREEDOM AND LIFE
|Date: 31 Jan 97 20:29:57
EID:a9ba 223fa3a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4af
AS> Could be. But if so, then I am a pawn of what went before...
RH> That's right. You are. Quit worrying about free will and choice
RH> and sin and get on with living a good life.
Who's living the good life? Is there an "I" here, or just the sum of what
went before?
AS> But purely for behavior modification, without crediting them with any
AS> integrity to their being.
RH> Yes. So? Was there a point in there somewhere?
Individual responsibility.
AS> It's one of those things where I cheerfully admit I would rather grab
AS> the illusion than accept the reality, if THAT is the reality.
RH> That way lies madness, Al.
Could be. But your way seems to me to negate individual responsibility.
AS> Maybe not. Sometimes things are more than just the sum of their
AS> parts.
RH> Quite commonly. A running car is more than the sum of it's parts
RH> but we don't think of it as having a soul. You are no different.
RH> You live so long as your body is capable of functioning.
RH> When it quits, you die.
It could be, Roger. Many people live comfortably with that (as do you
yourself) and some live comfortably with it and yet maintain a religion.
The Sadduccees did, for instance. In fact it is such an obvious thought,
that I find it remarkable that so many people do NOT have that
view....that there is no afterlife. You can't just say its fear of dying.
According to some hell and damnation preachers, we might have much more
to
lose upon death than we can possibly lose in life. It's an odd conviction
to hold onto. So odd...and so widespred...that one might even wonder if
there is a kernel of truth to it.
... Honest Officer! That cat was on fire when I got here.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: freedom and life
|Date: 30 Jan 97 09:16:14
EID:4ab7 223e4a00
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4b0
AS> You're myself?
Followed by...horrible thought.
MK> In your dreams, perhaps. But you are, IMHO, arguing with yourself.
MK> Sure, things may be predetermined. But it's irrelevant.
Um. Maybe to you.
HP>> Since the two are inextricably combined, you have just
HP>> admitted to having no answer to either.
AS> No, the two are quite distinct.
MK> No, the two are inextricably combined. Evil causes pain. Simple,
MK> huh?
Um. Childbirth. Shots to avoid disease. Setting the bone when broken.
Holding down a child, too young for anesthetic to be administered safely,
which stitching up a wound.
Or even when it is not done for altruistic reasons, there are
earthquakes, brush fires caused by lightning, etc. No evil done.
Next?
AS> You, on the other hand, are a constant delight and surprise
...by your illogic and misconceptions, let us not forget...
MK> Of course. While you are simply dull, plodding, whiney and
MK> condescending. ___
Not dull enough to assert that evil causes pain.
... And now, for something completely different.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: freedom from dogma
|Date: 30 Jan 97 09:59:36
EID:f951 223e4f60
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4b1
AS> It certainly "seems" to, Hec/Mark. But, of course, without the unified
AS> field theory, any theorizing on it is just...ummm..."metaphysical
AS>speculation"?
MK>
Overusing the enemas?
MK> You really don't understand science at all, do you, Al?
MK> That is what it seems to be using what we know today, without a fully
MK> unified theory. It is scientific extrapolation rather than
MK> metaphysical speculation. I'm not at all surprised that you don't know
MK> the difference.
I would certainly agree that it is matter of scientific extrapolation (by
Lemaitre, a Roman Catholic priest, who first came up with the idea of the
Big Bang). And there's nothing wrong with saying that the constants have
been selected for...either by ensemble, or deliberate selection.
MK> Al, Al, we're well aware that, if we grant that other universes are
MK> possible, the best explanation for the universe we find ourselves in
is
MK> anthropic selection. Not totally unevidenced gods. You're being
MK> pedantically boring again.
Yes. IF. And of course, which would Occam's razor be more likely to knock
off....a large enough ensemble of universes to make these specific ranges
of constants likely, or a single Designer? But you're being
deliberately obtuse again.
AS> I would say, instead, a reasonable extrapolation of known data.
MK> We don't know if other universes are possible, Al. Hence, you are
MK> metaphysically speculating when you start talking about "other
MK> universes." Quite simple, really. Pay attention.
I am...especially the fact to discuss hypothetical alternative universes
from known data is not metaphysically speculating...but a reasonable
extrapolation from known data. No more metaphysical than discussing what
the earth would be like if the ice caps melted.
... The easiest way to solve a problem is to deny that it exists.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: FUCKED UP PRIORITIES
|Date: 30 Jan 97 10:25:37
EID:ff5d 223e5320
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4b2
AS> Which mental illnesses are those? That religiosity encourages?
RH> Codependence, lack of self-worth, loss of willpower, to name
RH> a few.
AS> Hmmm. And the studies that back up this assertion?
RH> Just read your bible, Al. All of the above is demanded by YHVH
RH> and slobberingly endorsed by the believers. Do you need examples?
Please. Because I want to set them against David, warrior-king, or against
Paul, who went the bredth of the empire and endured shipwrecks,
imprisonment, etc. for his cause.
RH> Do you accuse me of spreading ignorance? In what way, then?
None at all. I got called away from the computer for a longish period and
came back, and addressed you as I would Robert. That is my fault, and one
reason I am curtailing many of my responses. I'm getting too many posts,
and there is no way I can answer all of them. And I need to answer people
who are willing to dialog, like you, rather than the stuff Robert and I
have been sniping at each other.
... When Cthulhu speaks, EVERYONE listens.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: FUNDY LOST LIBRARY BO
|Date: 30 Jan 97 10:29:14
EID:e1d8 223e53a0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4b3
AS> I don't THINK he's into that. He's more into the force of will, and
AS> that all mortals can achieve what Jesus did.
RH> If he's a Rosicrucian, he has to be into it. It's central to the
RH> philosophy, along with reincarnation.
Okay. I know some of Sam's beliefs as far as Jesus is concerned, but I
don't ever RECALL him discussing astrology per se. He has discussed
reincarnation, though.
... Is it live, or is it Memorex?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: HUMOR THE FUNDY FOOLS
|Date: 30 Jan 97 11:02:54
EID:d3cb 223e5840
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4b4
AS> I'm working it from the other end. Look, my belief that things which
AS> are equal to the same thing are equal to one another is not based on
AS> my experience---of never having "caught" them as anything else. It is
AS> an inference based on logic, and has little to do with experience. We
AS> feel that is a "truth". But if we realize that with what we are
AS> reasoning with might be FAULTY...then the whole fabric of supposition
AS> is thrown into suspicion. And once you doubt the process...how can you
AS> ever get out? Any test you propose is done by possibly equally faulty
AS> mechanisms...our brains.
RH> Still not that big a problem. You just have to make more tests.
RH> You don't say "There might be an error so it's ALL wrong".
How would you ever tell the test was true...when what you are judging it
with might be flawed? When what DEVISED the test may be flawed? See the
problem?
RH> Hey, can I apply that criteria to the Bible?
LOL!!
RH> The theist is living in a dream world, if the above is any indication.
RH> There isn't a rational statement in the whole paragraph. Total BS
RH> and wishful thinking.
It simply says that the universe is rational (ordered, for the most part)
because of the Reason that created it. That it is a reflection of that.
And thus, OUR rational minds reflect our Creator's bias to a limited
extent.
RH> So, you followed someone else down the wrong path.
AS> Wouldn't be the first time.
RH> Bet it won't be the last, eh?
Doubtless. I'm married, after all...
... Let me know right away if you don't get this message.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: humor the fundy fools
|Date: 30 Jan 97 11:07:14
EID:96d1 223e58e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4b5
HP>> And how often do you have these dreams that you cannot distinguish
HP>> from reality, Al? :-)
AS> All the time, Hec...
Let's finish it...WHEN you are dreaming.
MK>
I wish that were a dream...
MK> That can be treated with medication these days, Al.
MK> Doesn't it make you wonder how much of your memories are composed of
MK> dreams you think are real, little fundy? :-)
Or in your case...nightmares.
... I hit my CTRL key, but I'm still not in control.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: MORE GRIST FROM THE W
|Date: 30 Jan 97 11:23:49
EID:e1b2 223e5ae0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4b6
AS> What, for getting ready for church?
RH> Yes. The kids didn't want to go and were dragging their feet. She was
RH> ranting and raving at them, making everyone mad and I said "That's it"
RH> and nobody went.
Don't blame you a bit. Usually my problem is the other way...my kids like
to go, but the wife might be sick and want to stay home, and they
complain.
RH> Actually, he was/is all you would have wanted in an elder until
RH> then. But once the gonads took over, everything changed.
That's true of a lot of males.
AS> I'm with, but not every church would I be pleased at. And Jesus also
AS> shared your distaste for religious hypocrites.
RH> Yep. Me and Jesus; what a pair!
You may have more in common than you believe.
... Copenhagenists don't do it unless somebody's watching.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: OF THREATS OF HELL...
|Date: 30 Jan 97 11:31:59
EID:065a 223e5be0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4b7
AS> Yes, sins like murder, thievery, adultery, cruelty. I submit
AS> indluging in such seem to have real consequences in THIS world, and
AS> have for many cultures. (By adultery I mean the deliberate deception
AS> of one's spouse while sleeping with another. I'm not addressing open
AS> marriages, where the spouse is fully aware and perhaps even approves.)
RH> Uh...Al, adultery is still a sin in the eyes of your God, consent
RH> or not.
I know, Roger, I was keeping in mind the echo as a whole that I am
addressing, and those who might feel fooling around (with their spouses'
consent) IS okay. I was trying to find a common ground which we might be
able to agree on. I was trying to find moral offenses that can be agreed
on, and pointing out that such (which many Christians class as sins) can
be regarded as an impartial observer as generally detrimental.
... I have lived here for 400 years and I have never seen a ghost.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Of threats of Hell...
|Date: 30 Jan 97 13:16:59
EID:7aad 223e6a00
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4b8
MK>> exist (outside the human imagination). Ergo, you don't seem
MK>> to be warning
AS> Do tell me the experiments that determine that. Absence of
AS> evidence is not evidence of absence. In fact...although
MG> Do you need to look at every corner of the universe to see if there
MG> ian existant pink hippo?
No; but if one categorically says that on no planet of the universe there
aren't pink hippos, one can at least inquire what makes them so sure.
... It is illogical to expect a universe to exist.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: SUPERSTION
|Date: 30 Jan 97 13:25:49
EID:92f9 223e6b20
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4b9
AS> with Herod having the ear of Claudius? (Didja know they were buddies
AS> before Claudius became Emperor?)
RH> Are you sure it was Claudius?
According to Robert Graves it was. But Graves might have been wrong.
AS> Could be. No doubt that JEsus' execution was a policitical hot
AS> potato. Which Pilate tried to foist off on Herod. But once it was his
AS> responsibility, it would not be a pleasant report to HIS superior
AS> that he would not do it...especially with Herod and the Sanhedrin both
AS> interested.
RH> Why would Rome give a shit about some Jewish fanatic?
Because Palestine was under the control of a potentially rebellious area
of the Empire, and if rebellion erupted, official displeasure would
certainly hit him. (It appears that Pilate DID overstep his authority in
a
way that brought him the censure of his superiors. He may even have
committed suicide Roman-fashion, but that's just speculation.)
RH> I'll buy the latter. They KNEW Jesus was not dead. He probably died
RH> soon after they got him out and was buried secretly elsewhere.
AS> Wouldn't the disciples notice He looked like death warmed over?
AS> Instead of wanting to be resurrected like Him, they would
AS> probably wnat to call Luke, the physician...
AS> And that means it was definitely not him on the road to Emmaneus. Ten
AS> miles with pierced feet?
RH>
RH> No, probably not. Especially since they did not recognise him at the
RH> time.
So we either have two guys--the real Jesus making appearances, and another
guy whom others are not initially recognizing as Jesus but then later
identified as Him--or the other tales were later additions. Either is
possible.
AS> Possible. But they would realize they were using courage and
AS> conviction to, nonetheless, HOAX the entire Jesus movement, perhaps
AS> even the entire coutnry. In other words, no matter their courage,
AS> their conviction would be to be as phoney as a three-dollar bill.
RH> Al, when you're serving God, anything is permissable.
If so, I imagine they were disappointed at the results, a schism within
Judaism which later embraced Gentiles.
... Frisbyterian: When you die, your soul goes up on the roof.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Well, Willy? Huh??
|Date: 30 Jan 97 13:36:05
EID:e819 223e6c80
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4ba
DR> Hello Al,
DR> I am putting the below piece in my Church newletter this Sunday. Let
DR> me know what you think.
DR> Laterness...
DR> Mr. President? Are You Really A Christian?
DR> After prevailing in a contest which many observers consider a
DR> high-mark in the use of religious appeals and rhetoric, William
DR> Jefferson Clinton was sworn in for his second term as President of the
DR> United States. The festive round of inaugural events included three
DR> church choirs, prayer breakfasts and other religion-linked events.
On
DR> Sunday, Clinton handlers made sure that the news media was given
DR> abundant news-photo opportunities as the President and first lady
DR> traipsed to two different church services, one at the Columbia Baptist
DR> Church and the second at the Foundry United Methodist Church "for a
DR> second dose of moral uplift" as wire services described the event. At
DR> the swearing-in ceremony, Clinton took the oath of presidential office
DR> with his hand resting on a family Bible.
DR> In light of facts forthcoming in this article, a question comes
DR> to mind. Is the President "really" a Christian? Let the Trumpet's
DR> readers discern for themselves based on the following facts. As many
DR> are aware, the Clintons regularly schmooze at "new age" festivities.
DR> "Spiritual Life In A Secular Society" was just one of the workshop
DR> topics in a Renaissance Weekend attended by President Clinton, wife
DR> Hillary, and nearly 1500 other "super achievers who aren't too
DR> sophisticated to walk around sporting oversized name tags," according
DR> to CNN. The Clintons spent a recent weekend at the invitation-only
DR> mystical retreat , making it their 13th such event. What is
DR> "Renaissance Weekend"? Conservative and fundamentalist critics see
DR> the tightly-controlled, exclusive shindig as epitomizing everything
DR> from an evil French Enlightenment agenda to something smacking of false
DR> religion and the Anti Christ. But is that giving the Renaissance
DR> Weekend a rap it does not deserve? Religious-right direct mail King
DR> Richard Vigueri is "right at home" as a participant, and so are a
DR> handful of other fundamentalist types. However, Viqueri's presence at
DR> this event doesn't mean there isn't anything unsavory about it either.
Well, Dave, you asked...
I think you would be better advised to address matters of the Spirit and
how we can work better in this world for the next rather than devote a
Church newsletter to an article solely devoted to criticizing the
Clintons. Compared to say, the Reagens...who consulted astrologers...I
think we could do a lot worse. The early Christians lived through times
which made ANY scandal of our day look very tame indeed (such as Nero and
his mother) and didn't devote a lot of time to critizing the rulers but
instead concerned themselves with how to live a good Christian life.
... Error, no Keyboard - Press F1 to Continue.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: whining Al
|Date: 30 Jan 97 13:37:18
EID:f827 223e6ca0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4bb
AS>>> Behold the braying ass...
MK> We see you, already.
Better braying than one from which (gentle farts) are coming...
... No, Taco Bell is NOT the Mexican telephone company!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: wishes and assertions
|Date: 31 Jan 97 20:35:19
EID:7926 223fa460
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4bc
MK>
You're from Louisiana, right? Too much Cajun cooking?
MK> You simply pointed out that it is _a_ better answer
MK> than theism. Tsk, tsk.
No; I simply repeated YOUR ungrounded assertion of such.
RC>>> If you seriously believe that such an assertion is the only alternative
RC>>> to theism, then you are even more stupid than I thought
AS> Not at all, Robert. And of course, nowhere in the above did I say
AS> it was the ONLY alternative
AS> Done.
MK> All you did was illustrate that it is a better answer than theism, not
MK> that anyone besides you had given the impression that it was the only
MK> answer besides theism, and not that anyone besides you had even
See the above assertion beginning with "RC". Observe that my initials are
"AS". Notice the words beginning with "AS" explicitedly deny me asserting
it was the only alternative. Notice your foot in your mouth...
MK> asserted such a thing, Al. Tsk, tsk, you've been caught in shoddy
MK> argument yet again. It's known as a strawman -- pretending someone
MK> said something they didn't say.
Again, look above.
MK> As can plainly be seen, the above does _not_ assert that "they just
MK> are that way" is the only alternative to theism. It does correctly
MK> point out that it is a better answer than theism's non-answer, however.
Correctly? Theism's "non-answer" nevertheless was the framework from
which a great many great scientists worked.
MK>
Ever read Abbott's Flatland? You're turning Louisiana into
FlatulanceLand....
MK> I realize your method of argument relies on hiding what
MK> was really said over time, burying it under tons of meaningless
MK> verbiage from your keyboard until the original point which you lost
is
MK> forgotten. Too bad it doesn't work well all the time, eh?
Better than saying, you've debunked yourself again every time someone says
something.
BTW...you debunked yourself again. And didn't even notice.
... "I drank WHAT!?" - Socrates
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Bacteria and Evolution.
|Date: 31 Jan 97 20:36:20
EID:c3aa 223fa480
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4bd
RC> Can't your read what she already wrote?
AS> Sure.
RC> So *knowing* that she already gave it plenty of thought, and reached
RC> the conclusion that it can't be done, you ask her to do it. You dunce!
And...interestingly enough...in a reply to Marty Goldberg...she did.
For I know that Marilyn, whatever our differences, is an intelligent and
resourceful woman, and if she put her mind to it, she might think of a
feasible way around it.
Don't take any jobs as prophet, Robert.
As I have said before...you substitute invective...such as "you dunce!"
for intelligence.
Marilyn, though she uses invective, uses BOTH. Much better than you.
Sad.
... Coincidence? No. Cthulhu.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: childhood superstitions
|Date: 30 Jan 97 14:49:43
EID:2c1c 223e7620
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4be
AS>> If religion is so damaging to the psyche and brings on mental
AS>> illness, it seems odd in ALMOST every culture (didn't say it,
AS>S> Marty Leipzig!) that religion crops up.
RC> Why does it seem odd to you?
AS> Because it would put us at a disadvantage concerning more
AS> skeptical societies.
RC> Oh? Such as?
You don't consider mental illness and damage to the psyche as
disadvantages?
That explains so MUCH, Robert...
AS> No; but I don't expect the "illness" to dominate the society
AS> in many cases;
RC> That's a very naive attitude. It is the nature of disease to spread.
MENTAL illness? Is there a plague of schizophrenia in your neighborhood?
Is there a maniac-depressive flu in Florida?
RC> It seems quite natural to me that the world contains errors,
RC> myths, and superstitions. Religion and religiosity are part
RC> of the childhood of humankind.
AS> And we're SO grown up now...
RC> Are we? Perhaps a little bit. You might say that we're reaching the
RC> adolescence of humankind. There are a lot of changes taking place
RC> which have never before been encountered -- and we are thinking of
RC> putting away at least some childish things in the process.
I wish I could make a bet with you and have it sealed in a Time Capsule
for our distant descendents (if any) to collect on. But I would be willing
to bet, in the year 5000 (always assuming we LAST that long) religion will
still be around then.
AS> lovely little chronal chauvinism there.
RC> Lovely little leap to a mistaken conclusion you made there.
No, I don't think so. There's still an assumption that we are advancing
in
that regard.
... Certainty is for those who can't handle reality.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Mark Kimes
|Sub: disgusted
|Date: 30 Jan 97 14:57:33
EID:3a7c 223e7720
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4bf
AS> Obviously, if I am stuck here with you.
MK>
Someone turn the air conditioning up...
MK> You are free to run away again, Al. Should I notify
MK> your family? ___
If you wish. They could use the laugh.
... A man of courage is also full of faith. - Cicero
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Skeeter Haven "Nashville, TN" (615) 872-8609 (1:116/17)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: disgusted
|Date: 31 Jan 97 20:38:01
EID:a4a8 223fa4c0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4c0
AS> Then he shouldn't post to me.
RC> Pardon me again for pointing out the fact that you are a dunce, Al,
Pardon me for pointing out that you are a boring pedant, Robert.
RC> but directing a post to your attention is not posting "to you."
Oh??? Than you are not posting to me?
Well, that's a relief...
AS> You might notice I almost ALWAYS answer posts sent to me.
RC> Do you expect a condolance prize of some sort?
Yes. From my "Christanic Cult Masters".
... You may now log into life. Password:
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: don't know
|Date: 30 Jan 97 15:03:13
EID:4f1a 223e7860
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4c1
AS> Just like Bill Clinton, Cindy Crawford, or Bill Gates.
AS> Or any old real person you might know.
RC> Except that Yahweh has far more in common with Santa Claus than
RC> with real people.
Saint Nicholas wasn't a real person?
... I haven't killed anyone in... what time is it, anyway?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: freedom to blame
|Date: 31 Jan 97 20:39:01
EID:d499 223fa4e0
MSGID: 1:116/17.0 32f2c4c2
AS> Some things definitely disturb me...Hell, for instance...but
AS> Jesus raping little girls is not noe of them, because He
AS> doesn't do it.
RC> So you have fully retracted your earlier claim to believe in his
RC> omnipresence, I take it. Care to confirm or deny that now?
???? No, I do not retract it...because I don't think identity and presence
are the same thing. Perhaps you do?
AS> (Please note, everyone, Curry will doubtless cut off the fist
AS> part of that statement to make it say, "Jesus raping little
AS> girls it not one of them" so he can accuse me of callousness
AS> and condoning the raping of little girls, which is something
AS> I very much do NOT condone... )
RC> As I've never done anything remotely like that to any of your
RC> statements, Al, you seem to be tossing off slimy accusations as
RC> some sort of defensive mechanism. Pitiful.
Never??
RC> You are the one who called your god omnipresent. Even in
RC> rapists.
AS> Ahhh, then since the rapist is breathing air in his lungs,
AS> and the air is all around him, the air is guilty of rape?
RC> Is that the way Jesus is "in the victim?" Like _air_? Does air
RC> feel any pain? Does air cry out to someone for help and find only
RC> silence in reponse to those terrified pleas?
Very nice, very emotional. Very not to the point. That's not the way He's
identified with the victim, by His own words, arguing within the context
of Christian thought. It IS similar to the way he is "present" with the
ABUSER. As one might say we are embedded in space and time, and thus
space and time are "present" in us.
RC> You claimed omnipresence put Jesus in the rape victim. Then you
I claimed God is omnipresent (again arguing within the context of
Christian thought). I also produced a verse from Jesus that says anything
down to the downtrodden is done to HIM. Do you recognize the difference?
Presence is not identity. For instance, there are intestinal fungi within
you which have different DNA patterns from you...that coexist with you as
symbiotes. Now, everything these fungi encounter is within you. One might
even say IN A SENSE they are a part of you, in that they are within the
space and body which we label Robert Curry. But they are not a part of you
in the same sense that, say, your brain cells are, which have the same
DNA as you. And even though everything that fungi will ever experience in
its life will be within you...i.e., you are omnipresent to that fungi.
That fungi is NOT you. (There is a temptation to make a quick crack there,
but it's too obvious.)
Are we clear now, that identity and presence are not the same?
RC> very strenuously objected when it was suggested that he would
RC> be likewise present in the rapist. Now if you are going to compare
RC> Jesus to air (hot air?), then how does air feel the pain