God Damned Fundies!
|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Coincidence seven
|Date: 18 Feb 96 23:33:33
EID:4244 2052bc20
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 3127fda2
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Kevin D. Mckenzie mumbled "Coincidence seven"
PS> Dunno. Don't look at me anyway--I'm not an engineering type.
KDM> But I will be, someday. With work, luck, and the Grace of Goat
KDM> I'll be designing these things in ten years or less.
If you can get a budget. If you can find a patron. If anybody cares. That's
the problem with space travel--not enough people want it for it to go
anywhere at the moment.
KDM> I'm currently reading a book you may be interested in: _Prospects
for
KDM> Interstellar Travel_, by J.H. Mauldin. Your library should have a
KDM> copy.
I doubt it, but I'll look as soon as I have the chance. Thanks.
... The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.-H.P. Lovecraft
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Home page (you care, I know you do).
|Date: 18 Feb 96 23:33:33
EID:3e1d 2052bc20
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 3127fda3
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, David Worrell mumbled "Home page (you care,
I know you do)."
PS> Sure thing. It should be there by 14 February.
DW> Great. My whole *page* is fucked, now. The background image (a modest
DW> one) appears fine when the html is viewed locally. As soon as I upload
DW> the page and image to the server though, the background is suddenly
DW> invisible.
I hadn't noticed. It looked fine when I connected to it a couple of days
ago.
... Federal Employment Principle: Confusion creates jobs.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Homocrystal sextants.
|Date: 18 Feb 96 23:33:33
EID:5113 2052bc20
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 3127fda4
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Katherine Wintersnight mumbled "Homocrystal
sextants."
KW> in the tenth decade) made me mad. But, then, I was rather precocious
KW> (hell, I was a down right poisonous child).
PS>Kerosene is also too good for him.
KW> Now, now, Preston. We don't want to immolate him, we just want him
to
KW> pull his head out and look around.
No, no. *You* don't want to immolate him. Me, I like hot dogs roasted
over an open fire.
... AD&D Quote: "What's a `pantheon', and why is it mad at me?"
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: ONE LAST COMMENT 01/
|Date: 18 Feb 96 23:33:33
EID:64cf 2052bc20
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 3127fda5
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Katherine Wintersnight mumbled "ONE LAST COMMENT
01/"
PS>It's worse than sad, it's downright detestable.
KW> It's an ongoing problem here, esp. around holidays like Valentines
KW> Day, and Mother's Day.
More evidence that society isn't what it used to be.
PS>You know why manhole covers are round, don't you?
KW> Because if they were square some idiot child would find a way to drop
KW> them through the whole.
Yup. And we still have an occasional problem here in Memphis with some
nut taking the lids off to do work under the street and forgetting to
put the damned thing back on, to the consternation of traffic.
... DM Advice: Never let a monster die without doing some damage.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Re: Abortion
|Date: 18 Feb 96 23:33:34
EID:06f6 2052bc20
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 3127fda6
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Katherine Wintersnight mumbled "Re: Abortion"
KW> Well, are you going to tell us who they are?
Dinstuhl's. They're mostly local to Memphis, though.
PS>I rank their stuff as slightly below Godiva, or perhaps equal to on a
good
PS>day.
KW> Preston, It's not safe to tease a chocolaholic. There are several of
KW> us on this echo. Now, who are these paragons, and do they do mail
KW> order?
I know not.
... I saved the life of the virgin sacrifice by disqualifying her.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: THE 10 COMMANDMENTS
|Date: 18 Feb 96 23:33:34
EID:742d 2052bc20
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 3127fda7
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Katherine Wintersnight mumbled "THE 10 COMMANDMENTS"
PS>And me just having taken an oath of celibacy. Pity.
KW> Do we get to hold you to that?
Who knows? The spirit can move one in interesting ways.
PS> KW> They wondered what became of the Neanderthal.
PS>If they wonder at all.
KW> Dim little buggers, eh? Ever notice that cast of features
KW> shows up with permanently hunched shoulders and a nice rounded spine.
KW> Trashy folk.
Small, beady little eyes with no spark of intelligence. It makes me wonder
about why I care about the species.
... God is irrelevant (Borg 7:13)
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Pink?
|Date: 18 Feb 96 23:33:34
EID:5f59 2052bc20
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 3127fda8
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Katherine Wintersnight mumbled "Pink?"
KW> I do remember wondering, at about the age of 6 or 7 (this would be mid
KW> 60's), what all the fuss about communism was if they had to lock their
KW> people in to keep them. But, then, at that age I thought Radio Free
KW> Europe meant that the Europeans didn't have any radios.
Someone should have realized that Communism is great--for utopian societies.
Anywhere else, Communism sucks because of people's innate tendency to be
people.
... Error #666: Hard Drive Possessed. Load EXOR.SYS (Y/n)?
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
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|From: Boni Hitch
|To: Pam Gray
|Sub: Re: 325
|Date: 17 Feb 96 20:59:09
EID:ff9d 2051a760
GMD: 1:396/1
MSGID: 1:250/1004 1904011b
PG>I don't know... you have to ask him yourself... anyway I was going to
write
PG>the base for you to agree to disagree and not bother writing to him because
PG>his views will not change and of course you are very strong in yours...
I backed him into a corner already. I haven't seen the reply yet, but
I'm sure it is a doozy...:-)
PG>I won't of course take sides but suffice it to say I think you should
take
PG>first step if you know what I mean! :)
I don't mind *discussing* Christianity with people who understand their
faith and why they believe it but as you can tell, I have little
patience with the "thumpers" out there. I'm pretty much finished with
him as he as nothing I haven't debated to death around here to
contribute to a discussion...
PG>Ahhhh... I know... I sent a few replies out to some people and of course
I
PG>haven't gotten them.
We *were* getting it for a while but we aren't
anymore!...:-(
---
þ SLMR 2.1a þ ...Few women admit their age. Few men act theirs...
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: Boni Hitch
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Christian Jobs
|Date: 17 Feb 96 20:59:10
EID:0a11 2051a760
GMD: 1:396/1
MSGID: 1:250/1004 1904011c
SA>And Brave Sir Boni ran away, screaming "Christian Jobs"!
SA> BH>Can you imagine the bloody uproar that would ensue if I was to
SA> BH>advertise:
SA> BH> "Wanted: Must be Native and untainted by
SA> BH> Christianity. No Jews, Moslems or Hindus
ne
SA> BH> apply. Skilled leather craftsperson."
SA> BH>
SA> BH>THINK ABOUT IT, PEOPLE!!!
SA>It happens already, more or less. Witness the proposed BHP-Canada
SA>diamond mine in the NorthWest Territories - they've vowed to give
SA>a certain percentage of jobs to local Indians/Inuit. IOW, for
SA>those positions, only "native" (gads, how I HATE that word when
SA>used to exclude OTHERS born here as well) need apply. While local
SA>people in general should have first shot at jobs opening up
SA>anywhere, I see no sense in limiting jobs to people based on race,
SA>religion, etc - that is just as wrong as an employer demanding a
SA>"Christian" truck driver.
More than 60% of the population there is Native/Inuit. 75% of them are
unemployed. If the Euro-Canadians were not *already* holding up much of
the job market--this situation could not exist. So how fair is the
situation as it sits? The Native/Inuit ARE the local population in that
area...
Since 50% of the Native populace is unemployed *all* over Canada--how do
you find it unfair that BHP are forced to hire a percentage of the
*local* populace which happens to BE mostly Native?
SA>As I hope you'll agree, fairness works both ways.
Fairness has *not* worked *both* ways for over 300 years--obviously!
---
þ SLMR 2.1a þ Psychic meeting cancelled due to unforseen problems.
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: Pam Gray
|To: Boni Hitch
|Sub: Re: 325
|Date: 18 Feb 96 10:43:31
EID:0705 20525560
MSGID: 1:250/1004 190cfc08
Boni,
You won't see a reply from him for a little while... he had to give back
the
modem he's borrowed - you should see a reply within a week.
BH> I don't mind *discussing* Christianity with people who understand their
BH> faith and why they believe it but as you can tell, I have little
BH> patience with the "thumpers" out there. I'm pretty much finished with
BH> him as he as nothing I haven't debated to death around here to
BH> contribute to a discussion...
HEHEHEHEHE... oh well I am sure you will find plenty of others to debate
christianity and/or religion in general. :)
BH> We *were* getting it for a while but we aren't
BH> anymore!...:-(
I know... I see all these messages coming to the board but none are for
us...
Oh well...
Take care,
Pam
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: George Rudzinski
|Sub: Children
|Date: 14 Feb 96 07:45:26
EID:1144 204e3da0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 621ec84c
REPLY: 1:228/500.0 311e1a44
GR> Look into the eyes of nc1011, and tell me that you don't
GR> want her to be found.
It said she was from Alaska.
Better check Prewett's crawlspace.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Former Soviet Union
|Date: 14 Feb 96 07:49:10
EID:db50 204e3e20
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 621ed4b9
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 311fd566
JJ>> I suppose you left it in your other jacket -- along with
JJ>> Joe McCarthy's list of communists working for the State
JJ>> Department.
SA> ! Are you trying to suggest that the McCarthyite witch
SA> hunts never happened, Jesse?
It's rather obvious that is NOT what he is saying.
What he is saying is that McCarthy's evidence didn't exist.
Not the same thing at all.
Once you become a member of the Better Educated you will
understand things like this.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: TWO DAYS TO DOOM - TAKE C
|Date: 15 Feb 96 00:40:08
EID:2f84 204f0500
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 62284197
JH>> "magick" (on or before February 14th) in order to fulfill
JH>> the conditions of Curse Number Three.
JB> Happy Valentine's Day, JJ. I know I'm a day early, but I
JB> figure if I post it now, you may get it before St. Paddy's
JB> day.
Thank you. Thank you very much...
It got to me on time... sort of... I got it on the 14th, but
unfortunately I was already dead.
You probably won't get this message until after I resurrect.
FidoNet is EVEN SLOWER on this side. (But on the plus side,
I now know where all the missing mail goes to.)
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: FOF update
|Date: 15 Feb 96 01:26:10
EID:2f7a 204f0b40
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 62289535
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012 12137ca0
JP> Hey,... be nice to Exxon,..
JP> Exxon provided Alaskans a lot of JOBS that summer !
That's the basic problem with you. You're more than ready (you're
fucking eager) to sell out the future for some pocket change today.
Who gives a damn if the next generation has to live in a lifeless
wasteland poisoned with the residues of your idea of "prosperity".
And all the generations after them...
Do you really think that throwing environmental concerns to the wind
and kissing the ass of Big Business will give you a higher standard
of living? Take a look at Louisiana. Or New Jersey.
But you don't think there is going to be a future, do you? Jesus is
going to come down and make all the waste dumps disappear with a
twitch of his cute little nose.
Enjoy your mess of pottage, you crazyass motherfucker.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: The fire
|Date: 15 Feb 96 01:42:14
EID:df8f 204f0d40
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6228a5ba
AS> I also lost most of my paperbacks, which were in bookshelves in
AS> my room...so JJ, I no longer have a complete, or even a partial,
AS> collection of the Fu Manchu stories. I lost my Niven, (except
AS> for Mote in God's Eye), my Farmer, my Clarke, my Heinlein, my
AS> complete Doc Savage collection, many of the Shadow paperbacks
AS> with Steranko covers, etc. Sue Armstrong, I lost my copy of
AS> SCIENCE FICTION TODAY AND TOMORROW. I lost practically all my
AS> Poul Anderson.
[Moment of silence]
You can buy a new computer, but you have to BUILD a library.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Styx Allum
|Sub: Jim Staal
|Date: 15 Feb 96 02:32:50
EID:78d9 204f1400
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 62291c3f
REPLY: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 159285e1
>> I have seen Gramm speak out against abortion.
SA> I haven't. I find that to be quite odd, given the number
SA> of his speeches that I've watched & listened to. He must
SA> not be very outspoken, to have concealed such an important
SA> issue.
Date : 05/08/95
GRAMM COURTS RELIGIOUS SUPPORT
Candidate Pledges to "Restrict" Abortion, Oppose Gays in Military
by Conrad F. Goeringer
Hoping to gain support from religious evangelicals, Senator Phil
Gramm said Saturday, May 6, that he would restrict abortions and
overturn the Clinton administration's "destructive and unworkable
policy on gays in the military" if elected president. Gramm made
his remarks during commencement ceremonies at Liberty University
in Virginia, founded by Rev. Jerry Falwell, before a crowd
of 8,000 people.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Steve Rose
|Sub: Alien autopsy
|Date: 15 Feb 96 12:08:32
EID:d9ae 204f6100
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 622e7be6
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 11804281
SR> What would it gain? We have supposed footage of an alien body
SR> being carved up like yesterday's turkey...and no one with any
SR> sense will give that team any credit for validity. Sure it is a
SR> hoax...but I must acknowledge that it took testicular fortitude
SR> to attempt to pull that one off in this day and age.
We don't know that it was done "in this day and age". While it is
a genuine hoax, the exact how and why will remain a topic of
controversy until someone steps forward and says "I did it, and
here's how...".
The claim made for the film is that it made in 1947, this is
patently false as the microphone seen in the film is a Shure
Brothers model that wasn't marketed until 1954. But there is
really nothing about the film to indicate it is of recent
manufacture. It could have been made anytime in the last 40
years.
There are some indications that the shooting may have been done
on video and then later transfered to film, but the evidence is
less than convincing.
But one thing is certain: the film has already attained legend
status. No matter how much evidence is collected indicating it
is a fraud (and there is a lot of such evidence), there will still
be Flaming True Believers ten and twenty years from now who will
present it as "evidence" of alien invasion.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: DETROIT
|Date: 16 Feb 96 01:38:30
EID:a9c8 20500cc0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6235cd28
AS> I think the question of your gender has just been answered,
AS> JJ. How many females look at HUSTLER?
I only read it for the cartoons.
They're disgusting, immoral and totally lacking in taste.
I love 'em.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: DETROIT
|Date: 16 Feb 96 01:46:06
EID:a9c8 20500dc0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6235e267
AS> BTW, today is Valentine's Day. How you doing? Has
AS> Asmodiddly had any effect? (Yeah, RIGHT!)
I left your earthly plane at 05:34 on February 14th.
Which means I have been dead for almost two days now.
The record is three. And I plan on doing it at least one
better.
Actually I'm tempted to stay dead long enough for Asmodiddly
to start crowing about his "great success". I noticed he
stuck his head out of his hole yesterday.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: a miracle in the making
|Date: 16 Feb 96 01:52:58
EID:9ed8 20500e80
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 62363ebe
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 312251ab
GtP> Are you having a bad week or something?
I'm dead, stupid.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: talking critters
|Date: 16 Feb 96 01:53:36
EID:298d 20500ea0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 62360a91
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 312255eb
Let us start by re-examining your original claim:
>> ACTUALLY, the matriarchal goddess (earth) worshipping folk of
>> the Middle East were living in cities with paved streets, knew
>> how to work metal and had writing when the progenitors of
>> patriarchal monotheism were still nomads. Not only that, but
>> they were enlightened enough that women ruled and sex was
>> not evil. SO THERE!!
Here we have the following elements: Middle Eastern, urban, paved
streets, metal working, writing and a matriarchal social structure.
Now let us see how well your evidence supports this claim.
GtP> "By about 5500 BC houses had been built with groups of
GtP> rooms around a central courtyard, a style used by may
GtP> architects even today. These were found in sites along
GtP> the nothern reaches of the Tigris River, in communities
GtP> that represent what is known as the Hassuna period.
GtP> There, as in other Neolithic communities, archaleologists
GtP> found agricultrual toos such as the hoe and sickle,
GtP> storage jars for corn and clay ovens. And once again,
GtP> Professor Saggs [author of _The Greatness that was
GtP> Babylon_. New York, Mentor, 1968] reports, 'The religious
GtP> ideas of the Hassuna period are reflected in clay
GtP> figurines of the mother goddess.'
[*] Middle East
[ ] urban
[ ] paving
[ ] metal working
[ ] literate
[?] matriarchal
No bingo. I'm almost tempted to make 'matriarchal' a Free Square
out of sympathy, but evidence of godess worship does not
indicate a matriarchal social structure. Rome had shitloads of
godesses, but was not what any sane person would call a
matriarchy.
GtP> "One of the most sophisticated prehistoric cultures of the
GtP> ancient Near and Middle East was situated along the banks
GtP> of the northern Tigris and westward as far as the Habur
GtP> River. It is known as the Halaf culture and appeared in
GtP> various places by 5000 BC. At these Halaf sites, small
GtP> towns with cobbled streets have been discovered. Metal
GtP> was in use, which would place the Halaf cultures into a
GtP> period labeled by archaelogists as Chalcolithic.
[*] Middle East
[*] urban
[*] paving
[*] metal working
[ ] literate
[ ] matriarchal
Closer, but still no bingo. (Hint: anytime the culture is refered
to as "pre-historic" they do NOT have writing.)
GtP> "Saggs writes that, judging from a picture on a ceramic
GtP> vase, 'It is prbably from the Halaf period that the
GtP> invention of wheeled vehicles date.' Goddess figurines
GtP> have been found at all Halaf sites..." (_When God was a
GtP> Woman_ by Merlin Stone
[ ] Middle East
[ ] urban
[ ] paving
[ ] metal working
[ ] literate
[?] matriarchal
GtP> There's more.
I haven't seen ANY yet.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Why
|Date: 16 Feb 96 02:34:24
EID:1d0d 20501440
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 62364fb1
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 312238f5
DC>> On idiot went to far as to propose that people on
DC>> unemployment be used to keep the elk off of his Private
DC>> property....
DM> Sounds like a conservative who pisses and moans about
DM> the misuse of his tax money by the poor.
As well as an idiot who thinks that unemployement INSURANCE is
a "hand out". It aint.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: J.J. Hitt
|Date: 16 Feb 96 02:36:58
EID:4ca2 20501480
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 623652bb
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 312238f9
DM> Today is Valentine's Day, and I see nothing in this
DM> mailbag from J.J. Hitt. You don't suppose that
DM> Assholmodeus' curse finally kicked in, do you?
Oh fuck... I've become a topic.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Preston Simpson
|Sub: The Unofficial Holysmoke Pick Yer Poison List
|Date: 16 Feb 96 02:40:10
EID:e675 20501500
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 62365c7a
REPLY: 1:123/318.0 311eaf0c
RS>> Cola Marilyn Burge Freethinker Sutter Homes' White
RS>> Zinfandel Ryan Shaw atheist draught Guinness
PS> You need to fix this--my quoter munged your beautifully
PS> spaced list.
Ahhh... that explains why I can't find a six-pack of Marilyn
anywhere.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: guess what?
|Date: 16 Feb 96 04:35:06
EID:fd7b 20502460
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 62376ada
JB> JJ, do you remember that lesbian rugby team that we agreed
JB> was probably a BIT much even for I_UFO?
JB> You need to check http://www.frsa.com/faithzon.shtml
JB> and add Afro-American body builder to the above
JB> description.
Sigh... I don't have Internet access at work.
And I'll not pay for it at home.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: The Unofficial Holysmoke Pick Yer Poison List
|Date: 16 Feb 96 04:42:50
EID:352d 20502540
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 62377e4e
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 3121efbd
JH>> Cola Marilyn Burge?
JH>> What's next?
JH>> Jesse Jones Kool-Aide?
JH>> Al Schroeder Schnopps?
JH>> Rice Beer?
DM> We can call that last "Saki" for short.
Nah... that would be Rice Wine. Rice beers (as in those imports from
Japan) are tasteless things.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: One God not three
|Date: 16 Feb 96 11:46:14
EID:0bf1 20505dc0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 623b5b86
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 312195d5
KR>> The Bible doesn't even get pi right - I doubt it has
KR>> information on how to run Win95.
DW> Sure it does... doesn't the Bible mention praying a lot? :)
PSALMS 9:13 Have mercy upon me, O LORD; consider my trouble
[which I suffer] of them that hate me, thou that liftest me
up from the Gates of death:
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Re: more dan a. post
|Date: 16 Feb 96 17:33:08
EID:bb45 20508c20
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 623e8887
REPLY: 1:157/200 50020d97
KDM> I'd love to help you, but some moron snuck into Central
KDM> Command at Brussels and painted the Beast pink.
Oh NO!
Not the Hot Neon Pink that messes up the nano-transmitters!
That will ruin EVERYTHING!
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: FOF
|Date: 16 Feb 96 17:52:46
EID:1ca2 20508e80
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 623eb5b8
REPLY: 1:246/15 311C149A
SW> The Lord rebuke you.
I'll see your Rebuke and raise you a FuckYou.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: Jim Staal
|Date: 17 Feb 96 00:17:36
EID:2bd9 20510220
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 62424738
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012 1208825a
JP> Granted, this is bad news for nature worshippers and
JP> bureaucrats accustomed to having a kingdom based on
JP> enslaving people on a taxpayer funded welfare plantation.
John....
If you are so opposed to "welfare enslavement" why don't you
stop cashing your very own disability checks?
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: AN INTERESTING SITUATION.
|Date: 17 Feb 96 06:49:28
EID:3dee 20513620
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6245d365
AS> [...] and one of the elders of my church, a college professor,
AS> specializes in studying both history and cults, a Dr. Bill
AS> Gorree.
I'd be interested in knowing how he distinguishes between the two.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Re: countdown: one day le
|Date: 17 Feb 96 18:17:54
EID:0ad7 20519220
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 624c2840
REPLY: 1:157/200 501204bf
KDM> ASMODEUS spoke thusly to J.J. HITT:
A>> as for the curse, you have already witnessed its birth. Soon
A>> it will grow, like a plague. Your anxiety and apprehension
A>> will only make it all the more powerful.
KDM> Thanks. Money can't buy entertainment like
KDM> this.
Oh, dear! This anxiety and apprehension is just killing me...
Waitaminit... I'm already dead. (Four days and counting. I've
already broken the 2000 year old standing record. Everything
from here on in is for the record books.)
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: An interesting situation
|Date: 17 Feb 96 18:31:36
EID:03cf 205193e0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 624c40e0
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 46b593e6
JH>> Unfortunately, they don't make oven cleaner in tiny purse
JH>> and pocket sized cans.
KW> Cologne works great. And if you are real lucky, you can
KW> blind the bastard. The cheaper the scent the better--the
KW> higher the ratio of Isopropyl alcohol to volatile oils.
You can use IPA if you want to, I'm partial to sodium hydroxide.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: REDEORHCS LA
|Date: 17 Feb 96 18:38:30
EID:32eb 205194c0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 624c5a64
AS> Staal couldn't receive any messages from me, etc. What a AS> He doesn't
know what a pimply-faced follower of Anton Levay I
AS> hold him.
He still has no real idea of where he is.
Don't forget that Asmodeus was the character who with his very
first message in the echo called Larry Sites a Christian.
Prewett and Giggle-Scot are intellectual giants compared to him.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: A VISIT 4/4
|Date: 17 Feb 96 23:03:52
EID:80df 2051b860
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 624ebffa
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 02d81854
JB>> KW> Excuse my naive ignorance, but what did he consider a
JB>> KW> S&M theme? China whips? Stoneware ball gags?
JB>>I was afraid to ask. But he did want figurines, or
JB>>'anything' along that line, 'as long as it has an S&M theme'.
KW> Bound slave girl salt and pepper shakers, I'd guess.
That WOULD sell!
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: haggis vs. food
|Date: 17 Feb 96 23:08:32
EID:74f5 2051b900
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 624ecd3f
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org b6474380
KW> Although to do stoved potatoes right, you need clean sea
KW> water.
Sounds like a contradiction in terms to me. Might as well require
clean sewage.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: all
|Sub: Boylan's Appeal - End of Story
|Date: 18 Feb 96 00:44:05
EID:8acb 20520580
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 624fa8bb
* Original To : All, 1:30873/2
* Original From: Ed Stewart, 88:4602/17
* Original Area: I_UFO
* Original Date: Feb 16 16:29
* Forwarded on by J.J. Hitt of 1:106/9788.2
THE SUPERIOR AND MUNICIPAL COURT OF CALIFORNIA
IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SACRAMENTO
-------------------
RICHARD J. BOYLAN, PH.D. ENDORSED
Petitioner FEB -8 1996
By R. ROUSE, Deputy
MEDICAL BOARD OF CA, -------------------
BBSE, DCA AND THE STATE
OF CALIFORNIA
Respondents
DECISION ON SUBMITTED MATTER
Case No. 95CS02187
This Petition for Writ of Mandate came on regularly for hearing on
January 19, 1996, in Department 7 of the Sacramento Superior Court, the
Honorable Thomas M. Cecil presiding. Petitioner was present and represented
by counsel, Mr. Richard S. Linkert. Repondents were represented by counsel,
Mr. Arthur D. Taggart. The matter was argued and deemed submitted.
For reasons set forth below, as well as those stated during the
hearing of January 19, 1996, the Petition for Writ of Mandate is denied.
This Petition was filed under the authority of section 1094.5 of the
Code of Civil Procedure. It is undisputed that vested rights of petitioner
are at stake. Accordingly, this court has reviewed the administrative record
and exercised its independent judgment. With the exception of one of
respondents' findings, the court has determined that the findings are
supported by the weight of the evidence. Specifically, the court finds the
evidence relative to Determination of issue II insufficient.
With regard to each of the other Determinations found true by the
ALJ (Nos. 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, and 10), the court finds the evidence in support
overwhelming. Further, separate from the issue of whether evidence in support
of the acts comprising the Determination of issues was presented, the court
specifically notes that in each instance, expert testimony was presented
in
support of these determinations. Petitioner's contrary assertion is not
supported by the record.
1
Petitioner accurately asserts that basic concepts of due process
requires certainty and clarity of the accusations being filed as well as
the
need for fundamental fairness in the hearing process. Contrary to
petitioner's assertions, however, the court finds no prejudice occasioned
by
the amendments to the accusation. Petitioner was afforded ample opportunity
to address the amendments with the presentation of his evidence and in cross
examining respondents' witnesses.
In his moving papers as well as during oral arguments on January 19,
petitioner referred to the "thrust" or "focus" of respondents case,
asserting that the resulting "moving target" was constitutionally defective
and required reversal of the administrative decision. As already noted,
the
record demonstrates that petitioner was afforded substantial leeway in terms
of responding to changes made to the accusation. Moreover, the mere fact
that
petitioner misconstrued the "focus" or "thrust" of respondent's case, does
not diminish or negate the end product. It is commonplace for arguments
originally envisioned to be "winners" to be tossed aside during the course
of trial. Concepts or tactics first deemed unwise often blossom before the
eyes of the litigants.
In no respect does this court find any violation of the due process
rights of petitioner nor has petitioner been able to demonstrate any
prejudice stemming from the amendments to the accusation.
Petitioner takes issue with the "delay" in pursuing the complaint
originally lodged with BOP by KG. It should be noted that KG advised the
board of her inability to go forward - alone. It appears that the BOP
acceded to her wish until such time as additional complaints were filed
against the petitioner. Moreover, petitioner is unable to demonstrate any
prejudice resulting from the delay.
Lastly, petitioner has challenged the level of discipline ordered
by the boards. It is well-established that a penalty determination will
not be disturbed by a reviewing court absent a finding of a manifest abuse
of discretion. The fact that reasonable minds could differ as to the
propriety and necessity of a given sanction is insufficient justification
to overturn a penalty decision.
The court concurs with the analysis of respondents, both legally
and factually as set out in respondents' Points & Authorities in Opposition.
Moreover, notwithstanding petitioner's efforts to demonstrate that he poses
no risk to the public, his own "Responsive Brief" forcefully reinforces
the
position of _respondents_. Petitioner consistently references the notion
that his patients "misconstrued" his intent, or that it was "misunderstood",
or that the risk was "minimal."
2
Obviously, petitioner holds licenses that confer upon him substantial
obligations. His chosen professions require that he exercise good judgment,
respect his patients' feelings and their needs. Contrary to the position
of
petitioner, this court finds almost no evidence of insight into the
inappropriateness of his conduct. To the extent that it exists, it appears
to relate solely to the potential ramifications on his licenses rather than
an acknowledgement of misconduct or grossly inappropriate behavior.
Petitioner does not comprehend what all of the experts clearly
understood. Petitioner continues to assert that this case is about his
beliefs in alien encounters. It is not. Petitioner fails to grasp the
significance of the expert testimony and the findings as to matters
completely unrelated to aliens. Petitioner's conduct was outrageous,
especially in the light of the underlying reasons for treating these
particular patients. His conduct fell well below the standard of care
expected of his professions and constituted gross negligence. Revocations
are appropriate.
Respondent is directed to prepare an appropriate order in accord
with this decision, obtain approval as to form from petitioner's counsel
and submit it to this Court.
Dated: 2-8-96 [handwritten]
By: [signature]
---------------------------
Thomas M. Cecil
Judge of the Superior Court
[Superior Court
County of Sacramento, California] seal
3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
--- Arf! ---
* Origin: Gates of Delirium (916)339-9043: (88:4602/17)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: SATANIST
|Date: 18 Feb 96 01:32:26
EID:7b85 20520c00
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 62501c69
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012 121c84a7
JP> I've been waiting a week for a response from Asomdeus.
He strained his mojo putting a curse on me.
He'll be out for a while.
JP> ----- HEED JESUS or GO TO HELL --- Your choice ! -----
----- FRUIT SALAD or BAKED PATATO --- Your choice ! ----
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Condemned by Prewett - can't be all bad
|Date: 18 Feb 96 01:35:28
EID:2d09 20520c60
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6250262d
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012 121c84b0
On Jan 27 13:14 96, John Prewett of 1:355/2.1012 wrote:
JP> "Church of Christ" is a religious group that teaches it is
JP> the "one true Church", and teaches one must be "C.of C."
JP> water baptized to be saved.
JP> "C.of C." denies that Jesus can or will currently baptize
JP> anyone in His Holy Spirit [as per Acts], and "C.of C."
JP> denies the Holy Spirit can inspire anyone to be an apostle
JP> or prophet today.
tsk, tsk... and all this time we thought you were a True Christian.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Steve Rose
|Sub: Al Schroeder
|Date: 18 Feb 96 01:45:58
EID:8e87 20520da0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 625040f3
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 118042a6
A>> Anyway, in this instance I employed summoning to damage
A>> J.J. (take another) Hitt. It only requires utmost
A>> concentration, and knowledge to employ the correct means for
A>> the job
SR> Useful knowledge is something which ignorant babble fundies
SR> truly lack. It's no wonder you failed in all your attempts
SR> to curse J.J.
It's that line about his "utmost concentration" that cracks me up.
This is the guy who accused David Worrell, Larry Sites and several
other outspoken atheists of being Christians.
(Though I'm not at all sure you're not making the same mistake by
calling Asmodiddly a "babble fundy". Can Buttpimple Satanists
be babble fundies?)
As for the curse, I'll probably resurrect in the next 24 hours or
so. I've got shit I gotta do back on Earth.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Styx on women and the ballot
|Date: 18 Feb 96 01:55:24
EID:4201 20520ee0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 62505839
SA>> whether someone gets elected or not. It's merely a matter
SA>> of who the majority votes for.
JB> It is also a matter of who the voters have to choose from.
JB> Women do not have the choice in most places and times of
JB> choosing a female representative.
Anyone who has ever attended a party convention (even on the
state or county level) should know that "democracy" has very
little to do with what names end up on the ballot.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: Christian Jobs
|Date: 18 Feb 96 02:00:18
EID:18cc 20521000
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 62505d4b
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012 12321ee0
JP> Far as I'm concerned, the business owner should be able to
JP> hire or fire for any reason, or no reason at all.
JP> Nobody owes anybody a job.
Everyone is due fair treatment.
Firing someone for "no reason at all" is not fair treatment.
But I don't expect a Christian to grasp such concepts...
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Aaron Boyden
|Sub: information
|Date: 18 Feb 96 03:16:58
EID:afd6 20521a00
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 62512750
REPLY: 1:206/2720 1800c271
AB> Out of curiosity, why shouldn't children be allowed to
AB> watch porn?
Because their hysterical laughter and comments like "Oooo GROSS!"
will disturb the adults trying to enjoy the film.
Seems to me that when I was in third and fourth grade I was shown
dozens of "History" films that included newsreel footage from WWII.
I must have witnessed at least a 100 people die very violent and
unpleasant deaths. No one was trying to protect me from this
very real form of obscenity.
At the time I (like most of my classmates) thought the films were
"kinda neat". Kids just don't view adult material with an adult
outlook.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: OPINION POLL
|Date: 18 Feb 96 03:30:44
EID:8b24 20521bc0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 625136b6
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 89260E3E
SA>> "Wiggle its arms around! Make it look like it's killing
SA>> you!" -
DC> ROLF! BTW, who's Ed Wood?
You're joking, I hope.
Ed Wood was the producer/director of some of the worst
schlock-horror films ever released.
His work has been enjoying a cult following over the last
decade or so. A case of being sooooo damn bad you're good.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: RE: SILLY FUNDY CLAIMS
|Date: 18 Feb 96 03:36:30
EID:396c 20521c80
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 62514424
AS> True, IF YOU BELIEVE THAT THE NT DOCUMENTS (for the most
AS> part) REPRESENT ACTUAL HISTORY. Not necessarily the
AS> miracles, but the disciples dying or being whipped for their
AS> assertions.
Can you provide Biblical references for this claim?
I know that Paul and Peter were beaten and whipped,
but as best I can recall the stoning of Stephan is
the only martrdom detailed in the New Testiment.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Rob Burcham
|Sub: Religious Experience
|Date: 18 Feb 96 05:55:12
EID:c089 20522ee0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6253bca9
REPLY: 1:280/9 188e4b27
RB> Maybe Pro-life should change it's name to
RB> Pro-overpopulation.
Don't forget pro-poverty, pro-illiteracy and pro-abuse.
Amd pro-infant mortality due to inadequate pre- and post-natal care
(it's not a concern of theirs if the child dies outside the womb).
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: ABORT THEM ALL! (Then eat Staal's remains.)
|Date: 18 Feb 96 09:09:48
EID:5b7f 20524920
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 62544e0a
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 31226b40
SA> (As an aside, I'd laugh like a hyaena if it were found
SA> Swaggart contracted AIDS from his little plaything. It
SA> would just be such poetic justice ..)
Unfortunately there was no danger of that.
He used a condom even when he was only masturbating.
(No, I have no idea WHY.)
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Asmodeus
|Sub: Buttpimple Satanist FAILS again.
|Date: 18 Feb 96 14:53:00
EID:c73a 205276a0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 62578041
L>> "Wrong Way Asmodeus" huh?
Fitting, don't you think?
A> Anyway, in this instance I employed summoning to damage J.J.
A> (take another) Hitt.
Oh! Oh! I'm damaged!
A> BTW, if this Al is a friend of JJ please give him my
A> apology. It is very likely he caught some slack of the whip
A> as J.J. got lashed, so to speak.
Next time you "lash" someone, use something more substantial than
shoestring licorice.
A> The devils accomplish their work in many ways, not choosing only
A> one path to accomplishing the will of the summoner. It is likely
A> that they also sought out to damage some of JJ's friends, in
A> order to damage him emotionally, as well as performing that
A> which I had wished done.
OH WOE! I am emotionally damaged! OH WOE!
A> I believe this may be the case, as I had invoked Satan a second
A> time in the closing, to help ensure the cooperation of those I
A> summoned, and to add a little strength.
Ah... not only do you actually admit to throwing a "Real Curse",
but it was a Sooper Dooper Extra-Potency Curse.
Guess what....
NOTHING HAPPENED.
A> It is quite possible that His Infernal Majesty was tired of it
A> all, and just struck the first opportunity he saw, to ensure some
A> measure of success.
Maybe he should have called a last minute time out. Or a specialist.
This Infernal Majesty guy just aint got what it takes.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Brad Jackson
|Sub: Many Gods
|Date: 18 Feb 96 15:08:54
EID:8172 20527900
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 625795c5
BJ> How can you say that I am superstitious? I am not afraid to
BJ> walk under a later or cross the path of a black cat.
Just don't walk under any Ladder Day Saints.
And avoid black cats named "Fly" or "Leroy", especially if they
are trying to sell you a gold chain.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Rob Burcham
|Sub: Kenny is back into his de
|Date: 18 Feb 96 15:13:18
EID:0f43 205279a0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6257a07c
REPLY: 1:280/9 17131bcf
On Feb 10 17:50 96, Rob Burcham of 1:280/9 wrote:
AS>> I used to hail from Hampton VA.
RB> I used to rain over Dayton, OH.
I used to shine in Washington, DC.
(There's an oral sex opportunity in this series if anyone wants it.)
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: The Constellation
|Date: 18 Feb 96 15:18:58
EID:af50 20527a40
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6257b0dd
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 31207eae
DM> I had a job here back in '83, and it was here then--with
DM> rigging, yet. If you're ever in Bawlmer again, let me know.
Actually, I'll be in the Baltimore area later this spring. I'll only
be there one night, though. After visiting the B&O museum and the
Block (I assume it's still there), I'll be heading off for DC and
points further south.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
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SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
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SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: Josh McDowell
|Date: 18 Feb 96 16:53:38
EID:7542 205286a0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 62588dcd
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012 126a1cb5
JP> You have any reason to be sure he wasn't trained to be a lawyer ?
JP> His argument and reasoning is lawyer-like.
His arguments are deceptive and intentionally misleading, which
is certainly lawyer-like.
He's also a slimy bastard... (hmm, you may be on to something here)
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Satanista, no! Pindeho, s
|Date: 18 Feb 96 17:04:40
EID:45b0 20528880
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6258a4f1
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 94f0cc82
KW> Or do you think that it is something that Gardener added?
JH>> Beyond a reasonable doubt.
KW> Now the question becomes: Was it Gardener or Vallente? :)
KW> She wrote most of his ritual.
There I draw a complete blank. I'm admittedly not as well read
on Gardener as I would like.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
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SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Satanista, no! Pindeho, s
|Date: 18 Feb 96 17:07:52
EID:45b0 205288e0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6258b613
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 94f0cc82
JH> dozen uses of "whereas", "parties of x part" and "it be
JH> resolved that".
JH> If that doesn't bring Crowley back from the dead, it'll
JH> certainly make him spin a few times.
KW> ROTFLMASSTC! Can you just see some HP all done up in his
KW> robes and artifacts reading that off by flickering
KW> candlelight.
I cant even see how judges and lawyers can communicate in that
manner. It never ceases to amaze me that the legal system insists
on holding to language, protocols and customs TOTALY ALIEN to the
society they are trying to regulate. It would be one thing if such
hi-jinx were being carried on at some lodge meeting somewhere, but
unfortunately people's freedom and even their lives depend upon
this totally incomprehesible shit.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
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SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Re: Why
|Date: 18 Feb 96 17:15:22
EID:2b2c 205289e0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6258da26
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org f756c039
JH>> Just how the rituals were performed is left to the
JH>> imagination, but I suspect it was a case of > nudge, nudge> "Tits? Tits? What tits? I don't see no tits.
JH>> Do you see any tits?"
KW> J.J., or they mutually agreed that the baring of the left
KW> breast was not necessary, as there was no dispute that the
KW> person being initiated had tits.
But that would interfere with poking the blindfolded candidate
in the chest with the pointy end of the compass (a very important
part of the ritual).
One has to remember that from the 16th to the 18th century the great
majority of lodges met in taverns. The rituals (in my opinion, of
course) are simply the evolutionary end result of elaborate
practical jokes played in bars. Concider especially the third degree
ritual where the blindfolded candidate is knocked down and rolled
up in a rug, which they then pick up and run around the room with.
That isn't anything but poorly coreographed slapstick.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
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SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: hi
|Date: 18 Feb 96 17:38:40
EID:1cf5 20528cc0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6258f9e9
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 601b0541
KW> Because many of them insist on shoving Christ down our
KW> throats.
And those that don't still think their beliefs are due our
"respect". Though Xians are not alone in this insistance. They
think that because their silly shit is called a religion it should
be treated differently from other forms of silly shit.
Sorry, but if the Emperor is walking down the street buckass
naked, I reserve the right to giggle.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Alien
|Date: 18 Feb 96 18:51:46
EID:6a41 20529660
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 62599fa9
I have the good fortune to know someone from Arcturus, who
is living on the Earth plane. She is one of the most spiritually
gifted people I know. My connection with her and her work has
greatly enhanced my own life and spiritual path.
The Arcturians teach that the most fundamental ingredient for
living in the fifth dimension is love. Negativity, fear and guilt
must be overcome and exchanged for love and light.
The Arcturians work in close connection with the ascended masters
whom they call the Brotherhood of the All. They also work closely
with what they refer to as the Galactic Command. The Arcturians
travel the universe in their starships, which are some of the most
advanced in the entire universe.
One of the reasons Earth has not been attacked by warlike negative
extraterrestrials has been those civilizations' fear of the advanced
starships of the Arcturians. Their ships are state-of-the-art
technology, far beyond anything I have mentioned so far. One of the
starships circling the Earth is called the Starship Athena, after
the Greek goddess.
Arcturian society is governed by the elders, who are revered
by the people of Arcturus for their advanced knowledge, wisdom,
and extremely high vibrational frequencies. The higher the
vibrational frequency, the closer one is to Light, or spirit, or
God.
The Arcturians are short in physical statue, about three or four
feet tall, and slender. They look very much alike, which they
are happy about because it erases the pettiness of comparing looks
which is so predominant to Earth society. The Arcturians are the
most loving and nonjudgemental beings you can possibly imagine.
Their skin is a greenish color. They have very large, almond-
shaped eyes. They have only three fingers. They have the ability
to move objects with their minds and are totally telepathic.
Their source of nourishment is an effervescent liquid that is
highly vitalizing to their entire being.
Their eyes are dark brown or black. Their main oran of seeing
is actually their telepathic nature, not their physical eyes.
Their sense of hearing transcends even their telepathic nature.
They also have an ability to sense with the backs of their heads.
The average life span is from three hundred fifty to four
hundred years. Their highly developed spiritual nature has
allowed them to avoid aging, since they have the ability to
transcend time and space. They terminate life when the contract
that has been arranged for their existence is finished. There
is no sickness in Arcturus; it was eliminated centuries ago.
In the Arcturian system there are no extreme temperatures. Their
civilization is one that has transcended duality and lives in
oneness. Professions on Arcturus are determined by a person's
vibrational frequency and the colors in his or her aura. For
example, those who are in charge of taking care of the children must
have violet as the predominant color in their auras, for only the
wisest souls are allowed to associate with the young.
The same is true for those who are allowed to give birth. They
are screened and tested in terms of their auric and vibrational
frequencies, and when chosen by the elders to give birth to an
Arcturian child, people go through an amazing process. The
vibrations of both individuals involved are raised to a seventh-
dimensional frequency for the birthing process to insure bringing in
the most highly evolved souls. (The seventh-dimensional frequency is
that of an ascended master.) Reproduction is an honor on Arcturus
and one of the most highly regarded professions. The actual
reproductive act is not performed in a physical sense as it is
understood on Earth. On Arcturus it is done through a kind of mind
link in which the male and female energies are perfectly balanced.
Through this procreation process, some kind of electron force flows
through the two beings, and it creates another being that is a
replica of the link.
The new life form is then taken to a special room that emanates
the proer vibrational frequencies until the being is ready for
integration into a family unit on Arcturus. Many beings from
Arcturus are seeded onto other planets because the high council
has ordered this as a great act.
On Arcturus there is not competition. Every thought, word, deed,
and product is judged by its ability to raise the vibration closer
to God. If it does not, it does not exist on Arcturus. A person's
frequency of vibration is directly related to the mastery he has over
his body, emotions, thoughts, actions, and creations. Arcturians
have total mastery over these aspects of self. They have developed
the ability to transcend the ego, the separative, lower, fear-based
self. Success is judged only in terms of the measure of Light
frequency. There are machines that constantly check the vibrational
frequencies each individual on the planet is manifesting. If one
particular Arcturian receives feedback that he is not meeting his own
goals for evolution, then immediately the elders send teachers to
help that individual.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
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SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: THE 10 COMMANDMENTS
|Date: 18 Feb 96 21:23:22
EID:1b85 2052aae0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 625b0dee
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 3526cc0f
KW> Sheer defiance, as far as I can tell. Five years ago I was
KW> hoping that the popularization of Rap would kill it. No
KW> such luck . I don't even turn on the radio anymore.
Ugh... tell me about it. It may come as a suprise to some on this
echo, but I am a bit of a fan of "Gospel" music (NOT whitebread
"church" music, but the good times foot stomping stuff that Rock
and Roll and the Blues evolved from).
Unfortunately, Rap (like the creeping cancer that it is) has invaded
that medium as well. Seems like I can't listen for more than 20
minutes before a Gospel-Rap (just replace "motherfucker" with
"Jesus") song comes on.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: All
|Sub: 50 messages in one packet?!
|Date: 18 Feb 96 21:30:27
EID:3cac 2052abc0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 625b1779
Holy Shit!
I just pulled a Fred Rice!
Oh, well... It's time I rejoined the living.
I've been dead for 4 days, 15 hours: A new record!
I've out-Jesused Jesus.
Memento Mori.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: From Beyond The Grave. (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Masochistic Maiden
|Sub: Headless Subjects
|Date: 19 Feb 96 00:42:20
EID:0a71 20530540
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 625cdd82
REPLY: 1:352/266 31267CFF
MM> Hi, I'm new here and trying to find a place to fit in.
OK... you can be the person who whines about trivialities like
message headers.
MM> Could it be that hard to shift the subject header when
MM> the conversation drifts?
Hard? No, it aint hard. It's fucking scientifically impossible.
The Uncertainty Principle is quite clear on this matter. It's
possible to know where a message IS or where it is GOING TO,
but never both.
Otherwise the Science Demons would gobble you up.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: JIM STAAL
|Date: 19 Feb 96 00:49:40
EID:04fe 20530620
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 625ced85
JB> I wouldn't be surprised, either, but would prefer to see
JB> some evidence. If Buchanan becomes the Republican
JB> nominee...surely, even they aren't that stupid. Are they?
I'm loving every minute of this. Now the Republicans know how I felt
as a Democrat durring the 80's. Even with a rather lackluster
president in office their party can't scrape together a single
candidate worth half a damn. And they KNOW it.
(Of course, we really didn't NEED to control the White House,
because we controlled the Congress, just like we have
controlled the entire planet for the last 6000 years.)
It's going to be a fun election year.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Styx Allum
|Sub: JIM STAAL
|Date: 19 Feb 96 02:13:08
EID:889d 205311a0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 625dad4e
REPLY: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 1880299b
SA> I'm familiar with the evils of sexism, Judith. I merely
SA> believe that the claims made by radical "feminists" are
SA> largely exaggerated.
I've heard that argument before.
It was when Matt Giver and Whatsisname-Scot were
talking about the Holocaust.
"OK... so maybe it did happen, BUT JUST A LITTLE."
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Dan Oglesby
|Sub: One God not three
|Date: 18 Feb 96 10:11:55
EID:4b72 20525160
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 ce222e42
On (14 Feb 96) Dan Oglesby wrote to Karen Davis...
DO> For God to remove all of the evil in the world, He would have
DO> to remove a large amount of the population of the human race.
DO> Zappo!
That's bullshit! If god had not put evil in the world, there would
not be any people who were evildoers, as evil would not be an
option. Zappo! There goes your argument. Instead of thinking in
terms of removing those who participate in the possible, think in
terms of evil being an impossibility, just as flying without wings
in an impossibility.
So, the rest of your argument just went bye-bye. Zappo!
... I see that your lobotomy was a success.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: holysmoke.faq.ah
|Date: 18 Feb 96 10:10:28
EID:babb 20525140
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 72da168b
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 89270E21
On (17 Feb 96) Dan Ceppa wrote to Masochistic Maiden...
-> On 02-15-96 21:43, Masochistic Maiden got back to Fsns Goliath Bbs
FB> 4.15 ARGUMENTUM AD NOVITAM
MM> etc. How can I obtain all of these argumentation fomats. They are
by
MM> the way GREAT!
DC> You seem to be new here.. Goliath is the automatated FAQ mailer.
DC> I didn't save the last copy, but it looks like I should have...
DC> Any how, Coridon Henshaw may have the complete list, or any number
DC> of the regulars may have it stored away for future reference.
DC> BTW, nice to see I'm not alone in this Echo in this corner of
DC> the country. Was getting lonely here... }:-)
Am I no longer deemed to be in your corner?
... Reality is totally unaffected by your strongest belief!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Keith Pachulski
|To: The Raven
|Sub: THE BIBLE AND THE BIBLE A
|Date: 18 Feb 96 08:12:33
EID:06c0 20524180
MSGID: 1:272/72.0 8927AFDD
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0455
-> My evidence? Simple: I hold this view of Wicca myself. Sure,
Learn what the word evidence means.....
-> probably inaccurate, but that is how I view it. Most of the people I
-> practicing it are women who are "looking to escape the patriarchal
-> dictatorship of standard religions and tap into the secret, hidden po
-> the female being". (Quote, unquote from Kathryn Hurdt, proud member
-> Wiccan faith.)
->
-> Jack Butler
LOL....ignorance is bliss
...uhh...look we forgot a nail...would you mind crossing your feet ?
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
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|From: Brian Kolacy
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: hi
|Date: 18 Feb 96 14:15:00
EID:ea8a 205271e0
MSGID: 1:272/99 00123b76
(On 02-13-96 Andrew Masten replied to Brian Kolacy)
A M>-=> Quoting Brian Kolacy to Andrew Masten <=-
AM> AM> AM> No. I'm under the new covenent, not the old. The N.T. also
AM> AM> AM> forbids witch craft ect. ect.
AM> BK> Wait a minute...Did Christ say "Ok, forget all the old stuff,
AM> BK> this is what your supposed to do now", or was he just appending
AM> BK> what your god said? If your under a "new covenent" [sic], why
AM> BK> does your Bible contain the Old Testament?
AM> The new testament is a fulfilment of the old testament, not an
AM> annulment. Christ said to love your neighbor as yourself, and you
AM> would be living by the law and the prophets.
So, do you wear clothing of mixed fibers?
AM> Just out of curiosity, if you think Christ is no more that a
AM> fictitional character,
It's entirely possible that Christ was fictional. But i didn't say
anything like that. I *will* say that the the story of Christ has
ficitonal aspects.
AM> why the concern with what Christians
AM> believe??
I find it amusing that people follow a mythology. What I find
concerning is when people who follow a mythology try to force their
ideas on others, and kill people because of their myths.
Cheers!
Brian C. Kolacy
brian.kolacy@leading.org
http://ny.frontiercomm.net/~mephisto/
... Worship 3 gods for the price of 1... Christianity
þ CMPQwk 1.42 9044 þ
--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/10
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|From: Brian Kolacy
|To: Aaron Boyden
|Sub: legend
|Date: 18 Feb 96 14:15:00
EID:af67 205271e0
MSGID: 1:272/99 00123b81
(On 02-15-96 Aaron Boyden replied to Brian Kolacy)
AB>It is generally believed that the Gospels were based on an earlier
AB>tradition.
But which do you study? The early traditions, or the books themselves?
AB> Modern scholars don't even believe they were the first
AB>bits of the New Testament to be written; the authentic writings of
AB>Paul, whichever they were, were probably earlier.
That's a nice story, but do you have any documentation for this?
*Which* modern scholars. The earliest date I've found with regard to
Paul's writing is 50 C.E. Seems like plenty of time to come up with
some stories about Jesus...
Now, why do you worship books written by men?
Cheers!
Brian C. Kolacy
brian.kolacy@leading.org
http://ny.frontiercomm.net/~mephisto/
... Never eat a hedgehog without peeling it first.
þ CMPQwk 1.42 9044 þ
--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/10
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|From: Brian Kolacy
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Thumb-sucking Fundy
|Date: 18 Feb 96 14:15:00
EID:bcfe 205271e0
MSGID: 1:272/99 00123b8d
(On 02-14-96 Andrew Masten replied to Brian Kolacy)
AM> BK> As do the ones I list that contradict yours. I could find some
AM> BK> more, but, since you haven't even read your Bible completely,
AM> BK> it would be a waste of time.
AM>
AM> Brian, its nice to see you read the bible, its a shame you don't
AM> know what it means.
You're saying that the words mean something other than what they say?
AM> You quoted instances when God was either
AM> smitting the enemies of Israel, or chastising His own people. Have
AM> your parents ever corrected you?
Hey, my parents never claimed to be omnibenevolent...or omniscient, for
that matter. Seems this god of yours knew full well what the people
being killed were going to do, and could have issued them some sort of
warning. Or, he could have truly given us free will, which Christians
are always saying their god gives them, and left the people on earth the
fuck alone. Either your gods taking too personal an interest, or not
enough....
AM> Did it mean they didn't love. I
AM> let you know a little secret, if they didn't correct you, it was
AM> because they didn't love you.
Hmmm...my parents wouldn't kill me, and call it "correction". And then
have the audacity to say they killed me because of love. *This* is wht
Christianity is scary! You seem to be on your way to becoming another
Paul Hill!
Cheers!
Brian C. Kolacy
brian.kolacy@leading.org
http://ny.frontiercomm.net/~mephisto/
... Worship 3 gods for the price of 1... Christianity
þ CMPQwk 1.42 9044 þ
--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/10
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|From: Ross Catto
|To: Eric Hendrix
|Sub: Christianity
|Date: 18 Feb 96 21:45:00
EID:e66e 2052ada0
MSGID: 1:229/15@fidonet.org 839e2285
Seems like we agree on a lot of things. Except, perhaps, your
comment "Perhaps not truth, but definitely faith" in reply to my
comment that we can't base our beliefs on how we feel. (specifically,
'I don't think how you feel when you're talking to someone is a good
guide to faith'.)
If this was so, you'd worship god only when you felt good. Also,
who is to say they which god is true if you have only your feelings
and your faith to rely on? People have had faith in all sorts of
crazy things, and crazy people.
You are an exception if you own no credit cards. Yet the command
not to owe anything doesn't make distinctions between needs and wants.
By taking any kind of loan out, a Christian is disobeying a direct
command from god not to.
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0348
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|From: Don Ward
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: CPu parts
|Date: 18 Feb 96 06:08:57
EID:1ee1 20523100
MSGID: 1:388/14.0 312716d9
PID: BWRA 3.02 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
While listening in I heard
David Worrell speaking about CPu partsDW>12 Feb 96 06:16, Don Ward wrote
to :
DW> I have a Intel 386dx 25MHZ motherboard with math co-proccesser. I"
DW> take $30.00 dollars for it...
DW>
DW>Not only do you steal shareware, you apparently also try to rob people.
Is it that you cannot afford it? Or are you just hooked on that 8088,
hoping that someday it will evolve into a 286? Or did you just get off of
that short yellow bus?
Replace Bill Clinton with a republican.
* Wave Rider 1.33 # 761 *
---
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|From: Don Ward
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Are you a LACKEY?
|Date: 18 Feb 96 06:08:58
EID:ccb6 20523100
MSGID: 1:388/14.0 312716da
PID: BWRA 3.02 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
While listening in I heard
Dan Ceppa speaking about wrong board-> On 02-15-96 09:18, Don Ward got
back to J.j. Hitt
DW> Grow up little boy!
DC>It must be spring planting time. Looks like you are back to
DC>provide the fertilizer for the fields. Good thing too, as
DC>Staal has taken a powder. We can use your effluence.
Look little Styx "lackey" I don't asssociate with your trival little bunch
of agnostics anymore.. So find something to believe in even if it's
yourself...
Replace Bill Clinton with a republican.
* Wave Rider 1.33 # 761 *
---
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|From: Sue Alexander
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Whooping Crane tastes
|Date: 18 Feb 96 01:10:52
EID:7407 20520940
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 3127cc6e
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 89260E32
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Sue Alexander <=-
HP> Now, Sue, everyone knows that human skin is suitable only for book
DC> Just how long did it take for you to forget the example that
DC> Staal provided us with? He wrapped shit with his.
SA> However, not very efficiently. It kept oozing through the skin
SA> at his fingertips and into the messages he wrote. I would not suggest
SA> it for a long term solution.
DC> That's just because he's one big bile sac.
Of course! What else would explain his jaunticed view of life?
Sue
... If you think you are confused, wait until I explain it.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: The Sacred Scribe, 1-608-238-3837, USR DS V.34 (1:121/45)
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|From: Sue Alexander
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 18 Feb 96 01:37:35
EID:ad7a 20520ca0
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 3127cc6f
ON PRAYER
Mal-2 was once asked by one of his Disciples if he often prayed to Eris.
He replied with these words:
No, we Erisians seldom pray, it is much too dangerous. Charles Fort has
listed many factual incidences of ignorant people confronted with, say,
a
drought, and then praying fervently -- and then getting the entire
village wiped out in a torrential flood.
Quoted from the holy book Principia Discordia
... Don't blame me, I didn't start this thread.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: The Sacred Scribe, 1-608-238-3837, USR DS V.34 (1:121/45)
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|From: Sue Alexander
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 18 Feb 96 01:43:46
EID:ad7a 20520d60
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 3127cc70
THE MYTH OF THE APPLE OF DISCORD
It seems that Zeus was preparing a wedding banquet for Peleus and
Thetis and did not want to invite Eris because of Her reputation as a
trouble maker.*
This made Eris angry, and so She fashioned an apple of pure gold**
and inscribed upon it KALLISTI ("To The Prettiest One") and on the day of
the fete She rolled it into the banquet hall and then left to be alone
and joyously partake of a hot dog.
Now, three of the invited goddesses,*** Athena, Hera, and Aphrodite,
each immediately claimed it to belong to herself because of the
inscription. And they started fighting, and they started throwing punch
all over the place and everything.
Finally Zeus calmed things down and declared that an arbitrator must
be selected, which was a reasonable suggestion, and all agreed. He sent
them to a shepherd of Troy, whose name was Paris because his mother had
had a lot of gaul and had married a Frenchman; but each of the sneaky
goddesses tried to outwit the others by going early and offering a bribe
to Paris.
Athena offered him Heroic War Victories, Hera offered him Great
Wealth, and Aphrodite offered him the Most Beautiful Woman on Earth.
Being a healthy young Trojan lad, Paris promptly accepted Aphrodite's
bribe and she got the apple and he got screwed.
As she had promised, she maneuvered earthly happenings so that Paris
could have Helen (The Helen) then living with her husband Menelaus,King
of Sparta. Anyway, everyone knows that the Trojan War followed when
Sparta demanded their Queen back and that the Trojan War is said to be
The First War among men.
And so we suffer because of the Original Snub. And so a Discordian
is to partake of No Hot Dog Buns.
Do you believe that?
-------------------------------------
* This is called THE DOCTRINE OF THE ORIGINAL SNUB
** There is historic disagreement concerning whether this apple was of
metalic gold or acapulco.
*** Actually there were five goddesses, but the Greeks did not know the
Law
of Fives.
Taken from the holy book Principia Discordia...have you gotten the point
YET??
... God so loved the world that He made up His mind to damn most of it.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Brad Jackson
|Sub: 1 god
|Date: 17 Feb 96 14:36:00
EID:8e3f 20517480
MSGID: 1:280/9 1980f45c
TID: GE 1.11+
BJ> For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth;
BJ> and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
If you haveth any evidenceth, pleaseth provideth.
___
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Aardvark: Strenuous labor
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.3H1e
* Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: REDACTED STORIES
|Date: 17 Feb 96 14:39:00
EID:0903 205174e0
MSGID: 1:280/9 1980f45d
TID: GE 1.11+
KW> You sound like Bear. He gets these little thingies that he slips over
KW> the barrel of his pens to improve his grip.
Oh, you said 'pens'. Never mind.
___
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Astronomer: A night watchman
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.3H1e
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: names
|Date: 17 Feb 96 15:25:00
EID:bbab 20517b20
MSGID: 1:280/9 1980f45e
TID: GE 1.11+
MH> JS> Hmmm...what's a 'nigger'?
MH>
MH> RB> It's commonly used as a derogatory term for a minority. Not
MH> RB> that different from 'heathen' really.
MH>
MH> Or "fundy," or "jeezoid" or "christer" or "christaniac" or "death
MH> cultist?"
MH>
MH> Looks like the atheists have us 5 to 1 in the derogatory names
MH> department ...
But minorities (heathens) have little power when they
sling "words" at the majority. However, the majority
(theists) has considerable power in the usage of it's
language. Which has a more damaging effect?... "Nigger"
or "honky"? When you (theists) become a minority, THEN
you can worry about being called names.
___
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Aardvark: Strenuous labor
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.3H1e
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Hector Plasmic
|Sub: EVIDENCE
|Date: 17 Feb 96 15:46:00
EID:e031 20517dc0
MSGID: 1:280/9 1980f45f
TID: GE 1.11+
HP> RB> If God is behind this 'life sustaining' universe, why is
HP> RB> 99.9999 (and on and on) of it, devoid of life? That's like
HP> RB> a terrestial god deciding to plant a garden and he puts
HP> RB> ONE carrot in the middle of North America.
HP>
HP> Now Al is jumping up and down, pointing at a lone wild carrot in a field
HP> and shouting "SEE! THERE IS A GOD!" :-)
Story #2: An Earth-sized planet in a distant solar system
is "almost" a frozen wasteland. It's a little too far from
it's sun for life to abound but it's close enough not to be
totally barren. A small patch of algae has tenaciously taken
hold at the equator. This happens to be a rare strain of
'sentient' algae and it naturally thinks "Conditions were
JUST RIGHT for life on our world. There MUST be a God!"
___
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Anarchy: Such a good idea, it should be the law
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.3H1e
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Hector Plasmic
|Sub: Jim Staal
|Date: 17 Feb 96 16:06:00
EID:a280 205180c0
MSGID: 1:280/9 1980f460
TID: GE 1.11+
HP> SA>> Wanna know something really shocking?
HP> SA>> I think lesser of liberals than I do of fundies.
HP> RB> Oh Gawd! I'm beneath a FUNDI!
HP>
HP> Scream "RAPE!"
Rob: "In Jesus", you idiot! Not "In Rob"!
Fundi: "Oh, sorry. It must have been the long hair and sandals."
HP> RB> I've often wondered something similar. Which is more distasteful?
HP> RB> Reactionary conservatives or brain-dead fundies? Since the two
HP> RB> are often the same, I'm usually spared from trying to solve that
HP> RB> quandary.
HP>
HP> Ooooooh. You're a nasty bastard when you want to be, aren't you? :-)
I've been taking notes.
___
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Cabbage: The age of a taxi
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.3H1e
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: THE 10 COMMANDMENTS
|Date: 17 Feb 96 16:16:00
EID:5775 20518200
MSGID: 1:280/9 1980f461
TID: GE 1.11+
DW> RB> I'm a member of Humans 3.11, myself. (Humans for Workgroups)
DW>
DW> Hell, I'm a member of Humans 1.0. I don't multitask very well and I
don't g
DW> ong well with more than one other human at a time.
I hate to inform you of this, but numerous bugs have been
found in your version and you've been ordered to return to
the manufacturer.
___
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Aspirin: Having great ambitions
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.3H1e
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: A TALE OF 2 CITIES...
|Date: 17 Feb 96 16:22:00
EID:1b63 205182c0
MSGID: 1:280/9 1980f462
TID: GE 1.11+
DC> RB> The knowledge revealed in the bible is limited to what the
DC> RB> Hebrews knew at the time. And their erroneous assumptions
DC> RB> were not divinely corrected. It's almost as if God is just
DC> RB> some old Hebrew guy.
DC>
DC> Strange.... I wonder if Yahweh was really spelled "Methusala"...
Nah. Surely someone 900 years old would have known more
about the world than this Yahweh character.
___
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Aardvark: Strenuous labor
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.3H1e
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|From: Rob Burcham
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: flood
|Date: 17 Feb 96 16:51:00
EID:53d1 20518660
MSGID: 1:280/9 1980f463
TID: GE 1.11+
AM> RB> But human willingness to die for causes or
AM> RB> beliefs does not make the cause righteous or the belief true.
AM>
AM> But its strong evidence that they believed there own claims that
Chris
AM> rose from the dead. Would they suffer execution all for a story
they
AM> made up?
You are correct. It is evidence that they 'believed'. Some
people 'believe' they've been abducted by aliens. Are you willing
to accept THEIR beliefs?
___
þ NFX v1.3 [000] Anarchy: Such a good idea, it should be the law
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.3H1e
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|From: Aaron Boyden
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: information
|Date: 19 Feb 96 01:28:00
EID:10ce aa015c30
MSGID: 1:206/2720 19014e4b
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012 12714638
PID: FM 2.2c.mL OC0000B3
> Aaron Boyden> I was awarded a master's degree in
> philosophy by UC Santa Barbara in 1995, 28 years after
> Wald got his Nobel prize. I'm also at present a
> doctoral candidate in philosophy at that same
> institution. [--------------------]
> I encountered the above facts in a class on the
> philosophy of science at the University of Minnesota
> (the Twin Cities campus; that's where I spent my
> undergraduate days, so I have a B.A. in philosophy
> from there if you want to count all my credentials),
> [--------------------------------------------]
>
> MG> Children, should not be allowed to watch porn. [---------]
> AB> Out of curiosity, why shouldn't children be allowed to watch porn?
> AB>[--------------------------------------------------------------------]
> So much for "higher" "education."
The Meese commission was unable to find any discernable link between pornography
and any kind of anti-social behavior. Considering how much they would have
liked to find such a link, I'm inclined to conclude that the only thing
which could have caused them to fail would be the absence of any such link,
combined with a little more honesty from Meese than I would really have
expected. I can see keeping guns, cars, even drugs away from kids, as they
present clear dangers when irresponsibly used, and of course kids can't
be trusted to be particularly responsible. However, the Meese commission
didn't fail to find a link between responsible use of pornography and anti-social
behavior; it failed to find a link between any use of pornography and anti-social
behavior. Thus, the issue of responsibility doesn't seem to arise, so I
don't see the need for making kids an exception in this area.
--- TosScan(q) 1.00
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|From: Aaron Boyden
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: OPINION POLL
|Date: 19 Feb 96 01:31:01
EID:10ce aa015c31
MSGID: 1:206/2720 19014e4c
REPLY: 1:124/9005 31277e29
PID: FM 2.2c.mL OC0000B3
> JB> Worst director ever to hit Hollywood. Ever see Plan 9...? Yup, an
Ed
> JB> Wood classic.
> Which was made all-the-funnier after a viewing of "Ed
> Wood." Great flick, Martin Landau should have won an
> Oscar.
He didn't win one? I'm sure he won some best supporting actor type award.
Utterly deserved, obviously.
--- TosScan(q) 1.00
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|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Richard Morrison
|Sub: Better educated
|Date: 24 Feb 96 10:07:14
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af85
REPLY: 1:280/26 510b8fb4
PID: FM 2.02
FR> You asked what constitutes a better education, cultist. Your
FR> self is pretty much equal to a typical Creationist's.
rm> Why not quit being a child and carry on a
rm> conversation without all the name calling...?
"...name calling..." Why not accept the fact that you're a cultist? It
seems that a great many cultists object to the label "cultist" because they,
themselves, have tried successfully to make it a derisive term which applys
to _other_ cultists, never themselves.
Perhaps you should take your intellectual superiors' suggestions for once
and take to looking up usage of words in a dictionary rather than open your
yap and complain when someone correctly describes you.
FR> Something you don't have. You believe in
FR> deity constructs without evidence
rm> Only evidence that *you* are willing to accept Fred.
Why is it that cutlists are always unwilling to present this evidence they
continually demand they have? Is one of the aspects of joining the Christanic
death cult the master-given dictate to claim evidence but selfishly keep
it all to yourselves? Is it extortion? Do you expect your intellectual
superiors to fork-over money before you present this evidence you claim
to have?
Sombody alert Bunko.
FR> simply because you were indoctrinated into a cult when young
rm> I was? Hum... That's interesting. Do I know you?...
I know you by your inability to reason, inability to question, and your
inability to answer even the simplest of questions. You can't even reasonably
state where your deity constructs came from. Your pasters program you to
glibly demand, "why, they were always here!" without ever a thought about
the dishonesty and self-deception, the illogic, the logical absurdity, or
the fact that a _thinking_ human being really should know better.
FR> For that you need a better education than the one you
FR> think you had.
mh> Maybe more like yours eh?
Let's not start you out quite that high.
mh> Nah, no thanks.
Yes, you're fully willing to remain an unthinking robotic slave to _men_,
without the desire to actually sit down and think through their dictates.
No, it's far too easy to hand over the burdon of thought over to your masters
and allow them to hand you what thoughts they demand you think.
rm> I don't think I would dig sitting in front of a professor and
rm> just letting them pour in their philosophical opinions without
rm> being challenged...
No one is suggesting you should, cultist. I'm suggestion you acquire an
education, not further indoctrination by "authority" which is what put you
in your sorry condition in the first place.
No, what you did was fail to make it in the real world due to your inability
to make a living among those who are capable of thinking for themselves.
So you finally decided that the only way to survive was to sign-up with
the government and continue to allow them to do all your thinking for you.
No growth. No furthering of education. No effort. Only blind survival
and reproduction of further robotic slaves o men who will end up just like
you.
rm> You can lap it up if you want but that's not being a critical
rm> thinker... (that's whether you agree or disagree, you should
rm> still consider it.)
Your self-deception is the belief that your intellectual superiors are so
easilly debunking your occultism because we're reading from and typeing
in what we read from books. (Your ignorance was spelled-out well in #holysmoke,
after all, for all to see.)
Your self-deception is the belief that since you follow men, everyone must.
You don't want to admit that YOU have a problem that others don't suffer
from.
rm> (btw: you told me to capitalize "greek" I guess with the letter
FR> And look at your unwillingness to do so yet again
rm> Are you saying then when I quote something I should
rm> change the quote so I then render a false quotation?
Let's stick to what is written and not continue to try to interpret it to
meet your agenda as is your wont for having to do it so often with the classical
Christanic mythologies.
Why not just go to your masters and _ask_ them permission to capitalize
"Greek" and be done with it?
rm> Maybe it was all of the above... believe what you will... <
FR> Oh I'm sure it was at least one of the above. No one seems to beco
FR> death cultist fundy without _some_ hard-luck story to drive them to
FR> lows.
rm> Not everyone who has done drugs has a 'hard luck story' Fred.
rm> Go figure. You are the one who is so compartmentalized in your
rm> thinking.
Once again the death cultist tries to interpret what is written to fit his
agenda. The men who created the Christanic mythologies would be so proud
to see you keeping the tradition alive.
I figured it was drugs, alcohol, or some criminal past that forced you into
running for the government to survive. Only with the government can the
effort of thinking for yourself be handed over.
FR> Hopefully you realize that we're all here to _help_ you escape from
rm> Well, I'll wait till you grow up and see if you feel the same way.
That would require the sizeable loss of brain tissue on my part.
FR> By the way: Please come back to #holysmoke. We discussed your cas
FR> that you don't pose any threat to our organization and can possibly
rm> yea right...
We're only trying to help you, cultist. You can escape by yourself but
I know that taking the first hard step is _VERY_ difficult. We can help
you WANT to escape.
FR> Yet you must come back to #holysmoke and participate a
FR>little more in this forum before we can truely help you.
rm> Is that "truely" or truly?
Why not invest in a dictionary and find out?
rm> Your theatrics are nice Fred... I enjoy the humor and
rm> can use the smiles it produces... thanks...
Well, I understand why you must say that at this time. Eventually you'll
come to realize why you're here and why you stay.
rm> in the service for HIS Service
Because you didn't want to have to think for yourself out in the real world.
You joined the Christanic death cult for the same reason you joined the
government.
~*~ I wonder if Jesse would do jury duty, or does being a lawyer
disqualify one for a position that requires honest and unbiased
judgement of evidence? - jonny vee
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Richard Morrison
|Sub: CHURCHES
|Date: 24 Feb 96 10:10:44
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af86
REPLY: 1:280/26 510b8fc5
PID: FM 2.02
RM> I don't think you answered the question Dan.
DC> You have never gotten around to my question.
rm> ????
Here's one YOU can't ask YOUR masters and get an honest answer:
Where did your deity constructs come from?
~*~ All the gut-wrenching irony of America's low prioritization
of education is present in your origin line. - Fredric Rice
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Rob Burcham
|Sub: Millions of Gods not three
|Date: 24 Feb 96 10:17:03
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af87
REPLY: 1:280/9 188e4b23
PID: FM 2.02
KD> I prayed to god that he'd take me out of an abusive
kd> home when I still believed. He didn't.
rb> And the typical replies:
rb> (1) You didn't believe enough
rb> (2) A little suffering in THIS world doesn't really matter,
rb> since you'll have ETERNITY in heaven
rb> (3) God works in mysterious ways
You left out some of the biggies:
(4) She deserved it for being bad
(5) She was possessed by "Satan" and they were "driving it out"
~*~ Get thee behind me Satan. - Kenneth Mcabee
Bend over. - Satan
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Rob Burcham
|Sub: One Staal
|Date: 24 Feb 96 10:17:30
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af88
REPLY: 1:280/9 188e4b24
PID: FM 2.02
BK> Another good point. How many days of the week are named after
BK> *Christian* gods?:)
rb> April Fool's Day?
Quote material!
~*~ IT'S A COOKBOOK! IT'S A COOKBOOK! - Marty Leipzig
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Tithe = extortion
|Date: 24 Feb 96 10:26:13
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af8a
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 0143774b
PID: FM 2.02
RM>I think it's the TV that's Evil.... *grin*.
kw> The church (under whatever name) has been enriching itself
kw> all along. Take a look at the cathedrals of Europe. At the local
kw> churches rearing their beautiful rooflines proud against the sky.
Monuments to human greed. Symbols of the evil and ignorance of humanity.
More: they don't pat their fair share of the public tax burdon.
~*~ I saw God and the Devil several times during the '70s. - jonny vee
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Thumb-sucking Fundy
|Date: 24 Feb 96 10:29:11
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af8b
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 124b015a
PID: FM 2.02
AM> Brian, its nice to see you read the bible, its a shame you don't know
what
AM> it means. You quoted instances when God was either smitting the enemies
AM> of Israel, or chastising His own people. Have your parents ever corrected
AM> you? Did it mean they didn't love. I let you know a little secret, if
they
AM> didn't correct you, it was because they didn't love you.
That justification for rape, torture, and murder is why the Christanic death
cult has the history that it does, Andy.
It's a pity that you agreed to become part of it.
~*~ Are you just naked, or are you naked for Jesus?
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Christopher Baker
|Sub: American Atheists
|Date: 24 Feb 96 10:31:46
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af8c
REPLY: 1:374/14 31265A91
PID: FM 2.02
BK> No prob. I got an "official" letter today, forwarded from my
BK> previous address. 'Tis not much more informative, but I'd be happy
BK> to type it at you, if you would like;).
cb> please do. i have received no communication of any kind.
If you get a copy, let us know what's going on, okay?
~*~ Faith fills the fundy head...where facts and knowledge fear to tread.
- Steve Rose
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: Very much alive!
|Date: 24 Feb 96 10:39:19
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af8e
REPLY: 1:207/212 530d6a30
PID: FM 2.02
kd> ... Ecky Ecky Ecky pTANG Bing whing prrn zhrrn-wup
"Argh! I said it again!"
~*~ COME ON!!!!!! LET'S SEE SOME SWEAT!!!!! PRRRRRRRRRRAY HARRRRRRDER!!!
- Quentin Fai
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Crassless society
|Date: 24 Feb 96 10:44:20
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af8f
REPLY: 1:105/40.666 41d197e4
PID: FM 2.02
DP> Do you not understand the signifigance of the 'dot' in the centre of
DP> the forehead? My understanding is that this mark is placed there
DP> following the procedure, and these women had this mark. All you have
DP> to do is walk down the street of any major city in North America
DP> (except maybe in the southern US), and you will likely see someone
DP> with this mark in less than half an hour. I already explained this,
DP> are you saying that this isn't the case?
DW> I thought his answer would amuse some of you.
LB> Amuse?! I'm busy scraping my jaw off the floor!
mb> Should we tell him it's the Hindus that have the little dot, and
mb> the Muslims that have the clitorectomies, or should we let him
mb> continue to make a complete ass of himself.
Please, let him continue.
This one was an interesting one. A gross collection of pretty mundane ignorance
about the social attributes of other cultures combined to "verify" the "prophecy"
of his own culture's myths.
Well _I_ was impressed.
~*~ Is it true that 25% of your gender is gay? - George Boyles
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Death cult dictionary
|Date: 24 Feb 96 10:50:02
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af90
REPLY: 1:105/40.666 3a2bed4c
PID: FM 2.02
mb> law, the other in Jungian psychology. He wrote a wonderful book
mb> called _The Mind of the Bible Believer_ in which he explains the
I need to get that book. I ordered it from Prometheus more than a year
ago but they must not have recieved my order.
mb> book is a scathing descrption of the processes involved. One step
mb> (number four or five, maybe) he calls "logocide." When this step
mb> is complete, a person is convinced that many everyday words have
mb> two meanings, one employed by the great unwashed, the other
mb> employed by we insiders. And never the twain shall meet. So once
mb> the dastardly deed has been done satisfactorily, "love" becomes
mb> "contempt for what you are," "day" becomes "any period of time we
mb> want it to be," and so forth.
Yes and science, education, intelligence, and reason become "pride." Murder
becomes "correcting children."
~*~ If it's truth that you want, we can help you to eliminate what is not.
Process of elimination is better than elimination of process.
-Styx Allum
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: Adolph Hitler
|Date: 24 Feb 96 10:55:19
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af91
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012 126a1cc6
PID: FM 2.02
DR> To all Christians: he's one of yours.
jp> Nah, Hitler was one of Satan's. Like you presently are.
The "Satan" god is a Christian god, John. Hitler was a Christian. Get
over it.
~*~ The wheels of scientific inquiry and discovery
are greased by caffeine. - Marty Leipzig
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: double standard alert
|Date: 24 Feb 96 11:01:12
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af92
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 892644F9
PID: FM 2.02
SA> (As an aside, I'd laugh like a hyaena if it were found Swaggart
SA> contracted AIDS from his little plaything. It would just be such
SA> poetic justice ..)
mh> If a Christian expressed glee over the prospect of
mh> someone contracting AIDS, the response would be .... what?
Typical.
~*~ It only gets better for us when we die... - Scott Brubaker
It gets better for us, too - we no longer have to listen
to fundy morons. - David Worrell
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Dave Oosterman
|Sub: Gramm
|Date: 24 Feb 96 11:02:48
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af93
REPLY: 1:228/45.2 31250146
PID: FM 2.02
MH> Makes me want to move to Toronto or Grandville
mh> or some other foreign place.
do> Ahem!
You two cultists would probably be happy in Iran -- you know, "ojne nation
under god."
~*~ Mind you the devil works in mysterious ways (did I get that right?).
- Simon Ewins
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: JW's at the door
|Date: 24 Feb 96 11:27:01
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af94
PID: FM 2.02
While I was posting a minute ago, some JW's came to the door.
Christopher (Abacus, RoboCop, et al.) told me that two Jesus
Freaks were walking around outside so I stopped reading HolySmoke,
put on a nice shirt, and combed my hair, then shaved to get ready.
Then I sat down to continue to read HolySmoke in the hopes that
they would knock on the door. (Cultists selling deities so rarely
come to my door any more that I was looking forward to something
a little special this morning.)
I was handed a JW magazine which said nothing about them being
JW's. The artwork, however, the pulp paper, and the outline and
format showed they were JW's. (I suspect that they don't want to
frighten away people by showing up front that they're JW's.)
I looked through it for a date of publication and found it was
dated 1992. I asked if he had anything which was a little more
current. (Eventually I handed the publication back.)
I asked the kid he brought if he realized that the JW cult is
willing to let him die if he gets sick, and I got a look of confusion
-- but he didn't say anything. I told the kid that by his expression
I could see that no one had told him and got continued silence and
an angry glare from the man.
The JW told me they weren't a cult and I asked him if I should go
get the dictionary and he said no. I told him that's because he
knew he was lying. He turned a little red but proceeded to search
through his bag -- I presume to find something to shut me up with.
I was _very_ careful watching his hands inside his bag... any cult
willing to murder its own children is far and away capable of
murdering adults they don't know.
I did ask if they had anything which justifys the murder of
innocent children -- a publication of Watchtower if they had one. I
had thought of asking whether he had anything on the recient court
case which found against four JW's for the "wrongful death" of a
child yet I was getting angry at the guy for his trying to justify
the murder of children with mythology and I just couldn't get the
words out. I told him that I had the January 15'th issue of
Watchtower but that it only talked about transfusions.
I suggested that they go peddle their deities and their death cult
to other people who are willing to murder their own children. I
told him that we're far too well educated here to murder our own
kids and be death cultists.
As they were walking away, I told the kid that if I were he, I would
leave that cult for my own health and safety.
Christopher and his mother had left before the JW's came to the door
but my two younger sons watched the whole thing. I closed the door
and said, "That was fun" and both of them laughed -- they were
nervious because their mother usually hides in fear without opening
the door when cultists come selling deity constructs and I get the
impression they consider door-to-door deity sellers to be dangerous
and evil. I then asked my sons if they finished cleaning-up the
back yard, found they did, and now they're watching television.
The two cultists became animated as I watched them through the window.
They stopped in the middle of the street and the kid opened his jacket,
took it off, and started getting animated.
Hopefully the kid will start asking some potentially life-saving
questions.
~*~ People bitch about "how bad our kids are today." Bullshit! Look at
the PARENTS! The parents are failing their kids as well, not just
the kids failing their parents. - David Rice
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Brad Jackson
|Sub: One Million Gods
|Date: 24 Feb 96 11:34:13
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af95
REPLY: 1:207/212 ef4ef215
PID: FM 2.02
BJ> Look God has given you a chance to repent of your sins.
You should probably provide evidence that she has "sins" and then present
evidence for these deities of yours before you accuse her of "sinning,"
Brad. If you don't, you're making unfounded accusations and being a liar.
~*~ They simply wallow in their fantasies and hope it will
all come true before April 15th. :) - Steve Rose
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: The Unofficial Holysmoke
|Date: 24 Feb 96 11:35:07
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af96
REPLY: 1:207/212 40ece535
PID: FM 2.02
KW> Katherine Wintersnight Witch good coffee w\c&s
kd> Karen Davis Agnostic diet cola, Mai Tai
Sister, have you considered the Light and Truth that Diet Coke has to offer?
~*~ Indeed, if there were no God, I would _have_ to be selfish, I
believe, because there would be no one else watching out for me,
and no reason to put anyone or anything ahead of me. - Jesse C. Jones
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Rose
|Sub: WinCrap 95
|Date: 24 Feb 96 11:43:06
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af97
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 118042bb
PID: FM 2.02
DM> Sadly, this is probably true. I am faced by the dismal
DM> prospect of having to install windows if I can ever
dm> afford a CD-ROM
sr> I installed it the second day 95 Final was
sr> released on CD-ROM...and never looked back. :)
Windows 95 is utter crap. Just try creating a desktop folder, installing
LAN software, and just _driving_ the fucking thing. Eventually I'm going
to have to learn to use the crap but I'm not going to like it.
~*~ None of the people who claim to have found God have given us
any reason to accept that they have, indeed, found anything
but their own delusions. - Kelsey Bjarnason
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: One Million God asses
|Date: 24 Feb 96 11:44:35
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af98
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 118042bf
PID: FM 2.02
I pray the beast will not deceive you any longer.
- Brad Jackson
Neat! Science, education, logic, reason... it's all "deception"
from this clown's "beast."
~*~ God doesn't believe in atheists - Johnny Mckinney
Good, perhaps he'll leave us alone, now. - Dan Ceppa
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: FUNDAMENTALIST ARE IN
|Date: 24 Feb 96 11:45:46
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af99
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012 12714636
PID: FM 2.02
AS> Where IS His Church? You put down the Catholics, certainly. The
AS> Protestants, for cowtowing to them. Where IS the Church, John?
jp> Sprinkled out all over the world.
Welcome to the reason why the world has the bloody history it does.
~*~ DON'T write without thinking about what you're saying.
I made a complete idiot of myself. - Joanna Amren
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Masochistic Maiden
|Sub: Subject Headers
|Date: 24 Feb 96 11:48:25
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af9a
REPLY: 1:352/266 31267CFF
PID: FM 2.02
mm> Hi, I'm new here and trying to find a place to fit in. I browse the
echo
mm> for subjects of interest, then find that the post has absolutely noting
mm> to do with the subject line. Could it be that hard to shift the
mm> subject header when the conversation drifts?
Yes, indeed, it's too difficult. The change of a subject header requires
HUGE amounts of ergs and BTUs, not to mention using new electrons which
are difficult to move around and resequence into new and exciting shapes.
No, it's best just to leave them alone. We're far too busy trying to make
deity believers answer embarrassing questions than to put forth all the
effort needed to change the subject header.
~*~ 9) You small not bear false wilness against your neighbor - Leonard
Bernier
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: REDACTED STORIES
|Date: 24 Feb 96 11:50:48
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af9b
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 89270E20
PID: FM 2.02
KW> Yes. Ah, well. He's since replaced it, with a Pelikan. That
KW> one will stay in my desk, and the Purse Goddess isn't going to get a
dc> Sort like my jacket pocket. Amazing the stuff
dc> that I find in there that I forgot I had...
Perhaps the Christian pantheon is cowering in fear in your pocket. Dig
a little deeper, if you would, and if you find them, drag them out to stand
trial for crimes against humanity.
~*~ You can believe that cheese sandwiches hold political
convictions for all anyone cares. - Simon Ewins
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: The "why not kill yourself" argument again
|Date: 24 Feb 96 11:58:14
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af9c
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 118042a4
PID: FM 2.02
Steve Rose
Al Schrodinger's Cat
AS> it really doesn't matter whether you die tomorrow, or
as> fifty years from now. The same oblivion awaits.
Ah, yes. The "why not kill yourself now" argument. It's ironic that cultists
are the ones who think that "something better" waits for them after they
die and it's logical for _them_ to kill themselves to get to it. Instead
they have a history of murdering _OTHERS_ for their own beliefs in "something
better."
Christianity, thy name is hypocricy. And ignorance. And greed. And absurdity.
AS> Why try to prolong it? For the good you can do?
sr> I haven't yet tried 'Frosted Lucky Charms.'
sr> Hence, something to live for.
~*~ Call me a thief and I'll behave like one... - Jim Staal
You're gay. (This should be interesting.) - Karl Schneider
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Your Daily Death Cult
|Date: 24 Feb 96 12:04:59
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af9d
PID: FM 2.02
> SIGNS OF LOVE
> Read: John 14:15-24
> If you love Me, keep my commandments.
> -John 14:15
SIGNS OF HATE
Read: Luke 14:26
"Whoever comes to me and does not hate father and
mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes,
and even life itself, cannot be my disciple."
~*~ McGod's - Have it my way or go to Hell. - Sue Armstrong
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Your Daily Death Cult
|Date: 24 Feb 96 12:07:23
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af9e
PID: FM 2.02
> ONE DAY IS NOT ENOUGH
> Read: Genesis 2:18-25
> He who loves his wife loves himself.
> For no one ever hated his own flesh,
> but nourishes and cherishes it.
> -Ephesians 5:28-29
HATRED OF WIFE IS ENOUGH
Read: Matt. 19:29.
... Married life presupposes the power of the
husband over the wife and children, and subjection
and obediance of the wife to the husband. - Pope
Pius XI, _Casti Connubii_
~*~ I'm NOT giving up. - Joanna Amren (Commenting about HolySmoke)
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Styx Allum
|Sub: Jim Staal
|Date: 24 Feb 96 12:10:56
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89af9f
REPLY: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 16947475
PID: FM 2.02
>>> After seeing what just happened, I wonder what Styx will
>>> say to the following 2 words?
>>>
>>> PAT BUCHANAN
sa> It would please me immensely to see him drop dead of "natural causes".
Lead poisoning?
sa> That dickweed is dangerous, and does not
sa> belong in the republican party (IMO).
I would opine that the Repukelican Party has been utterly hijacked and taken
over by fundies and that they have successfully replaced it with their evil.
I would vote the Repukelican Party line were the Party healthy and not sufferng
from a fatal dose of cultism.
~*~ Running DOS on a system with 16 megs is like using the Bible as a
guide for day to day life. - C. J. Henshaw
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: childish ignorance
|Date: 24 Feb 96 12:13:13
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b89afa0
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 892248AB
PID: FM 2.02
FL> This is an example of your bad understanding of the bible. Look dude,
FL> Adam and Eve DID NOT know enough about good and evil before they ate
FL> the fruit, did they? Yet your god held them responsible! Your logic
mh> ... is fine, in contrast to your understanding of the story.
mh> A&E had a direct order to not eat the fruit.
Ignore the truth all you wish, Mike, and deny logic as is your
wont to remain a cultist. But that won't remove the undeniable fact that
the classical Christanic mythologies you're trying to pretend are real have
once again been debunked by reason.
~*~ "And you have no proof that the Mutant Cosmic Star Goat (Braise His
Mane!!) didn't eat Yahweh, have Jesus for dessert, get really bad
gas, and now you worship a smelly methane cloud." -- Quentin Fai
---
* Origin: Storm the halls of Pinkness take back your Slack! (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: atheist hypocrisy
|Date: 24 Feb 96 12:15:54
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3fe7
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 892248AD
PID: FM 2.02
mh> Several atheists have taken it upon themselves to berate
mh> Christians for using shareware offline readers for more
mh> than 30 days without registering.
mh>
mh> Unless those atheists are hypocrites, they will come down
mh> equally hard on Frederick Leff.
FL> ... This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 37 days.
mh> Of course, those atheists almost certainly *are* hypocrites.
mh> ... We have our standards here on Holy Smoke ... at least two.
The Christanic death cultist fell for it, hook, line, sinker,
reel, and rod!
~*~ I'LL PRAY FOR YOU, BUT NOT IN PUBLIC OF COURSE. - Clint Micheau
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: atheist hypocrisy
|Date: 24 Feb 96 12:18:47
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3fe8
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 892248AD
PID: FM 2.02
Hardly said:
mh> Several atheists have taken it upon themselves to
mh> berate Christians for using shareware offline readers
mh> for more than 30 days without registering.
mh> Unless those atheists are hypocrites, they will
mh> come down equally hard on Frederick Leff.
FL> ... This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 37 days.
mh> Of course, those atheists almost certainly *are* hypocrites.
mh> ... We have our standards here on Holy Smoke ... at least two.
Once again Frederick L. charts new fundy-destroying paths for us to follow.
I wonder if everyone were to change their tags and origins to the same,
we might trick another fundy into a childish lament about how atheists are
hypocrits.
It's even better coming from a Salad Bar Christian.
~*~ Once more: your question is stupid, and I will not answer it.
- Jesse C. Jones
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Lack of any Evidence whatsoever
|Date: 24 Feb 96 12:22:22
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3fe9
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 892248B0
PID: FM 2.02
mh> You might as well not have bothered. First I, then Al Schroeder, tried
mh> this exact tack. You could show that the odds of a life-sustaining
mh> universe existing by pure luck are 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
mh> 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
The actual odds for the life-sustaining universe existing by "pure luck"
is exactly 1:1, Hardly. It happened. Try to concoct deity constructs to
explain away _your_ ignorance doesn't detract from the fact that other people
aren't.
~*~ Their gawds are not worth the paper they are printed on! - Steve Rose
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Luke didn't write the mythologies
|Date: 24 Feb 96 12:24:11
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3fea
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 892248B1
PID: FM 2.02
AM> eyewitness testimony is an excepted practice. Too bad they didn't
AM> have camcorders back then.
mh> The evidence that Luke wrote the gospel which bears his
mh> name is that it has always been thought he did, and there
mh> is absolutely no evidence that anyone else did, or even
mh> claimed to.
That's pretty silly inasmuch as Luke is the third surviving revision of
the mythologies that were made to carry the name "Luke." The illogic of
proclaiming, "prove it isn't!" has been rubbed in your face enough times,
of course, that it's amazing a death cultist is still capable of bleating
it.
~*~ Really, I want the wife to pull the fucking trigger
on me if I do that. - Steve Quarrella
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: software
|Date: 24 Feb 96 12:24:59
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3feb
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 892248B2
PID: FM 2.02
LW> I have a better idea. If you're so worried about it why don't you
LW> send me the 50 bucks and I'll register the thang.
DM> Another splendid demonstration of your integrity. And we
DM> keep getting accused of making up this sort of shit about
DM> Christians to make them look bad.
mh> See my post to ALL on a similar subject. We'll find out if
mh> you're an honest man or a double-standard supporting hypocrite. :)
And we'll all find out what an ignorant, uneducated fuck you are.
~*~ S.G.A. BBS in Batesville, Arkansas is not carrying this echo.
We look forward to some very interesting discussions. - Gary Isaac
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Hit list
|Date: 24 Feb 96 12:26:28
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3fec
REPLY: 1:228/45.0 31216398
PID: FM 2.02
RTP> I go to worship the Lord, and to hopefully learn
TP> something that will make me a better person in the process.
GR> Try a library.
js> It hasn't worked for you. Why do you recommend it to someone else?
So much for your lie about fleeing this forum.
He acquired a quality education. He doesn't believe in logical, scientific
absurdities. His suggestion for you to get yourself to a library and acquire
an education is a good one, Staal. I would suggest you take it except that
your masters will never give you authorization.
~*~ In other words, Ken, Christianity is tailor-made for oppressing people,
installing a rigid hierarchy amongst the populace, and then quelling
any rebellion that might arise. It does this through the use of fear,
misdirection, and outright lying in not a few instances. It is the
perfect control mechanism against people who are denied intellectual
freedom--and it does quite a good job of that. - Preston Simpson
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: HEY, I'M NEW, STAAL
|Date: 24 Feb 96 12:28:51
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3fed
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Why don't you and Al just do what every other Christanic
fr> cultist does and kill each other, allowing your intellectual
fr> superiors to talk rationally among themselves?
as> "Every" other Christanic cultist? Tsk, tsk.
You might want to actually learn a little bit about the history of the Christanic
death cult, Al, rather than glibly discount its history as either unsupportable
factually or, even worse, "not true Christianity." That level of dishonesty
is why the cult you pretend to have willingly joined has the history it
does.
~*~ ... "Dave, my mind. It's going. Hey! Let me tell you about Jesus."
"Hello, Dr Chandra. Have you heard the word of god today?" - unknowns
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: Kill yourself. Leave your intellectual superiors alone.
|Date: 24 Feb 96 12:36:26
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3fee
PID: FM 2.02
as> PS. Do you really think it is "rational" to wish others to
as> kill each other? Do tell us, oh "intellectual superior".
Without a doubt the world would have been a much safer and happy place if
Christanics would just kill themselves rather than murder millions of innocent
people who are otherwise unaffected by the Christanic cult.
Yet no, the cultist would rather rape, torture, and murder innocent people
rather than themselves. The history of the death cult you pretend to have
willingly joined is clear for anyone to see... but cultists elect not to:
"The Christian glories in the death of a pagan, because
thereby Christ himself is glorified." -- Saint Bernard
of Clairvaux
Lovely death cult you joined. Why not kill yourselves and leave the pagan
alone?
"But a short time elapsed after the death of the great
reformer of the Jewish religion, before his principles
were departed from by those who professed to be his
special servants, and perverted into an engine for
enslaving mankind, and aggrandizing their oppressors
in Church and State." - Thomas Jefferson, to S.
Kercheval, 1810
Now there's an understatement. Why not kill yourselves and leave mankind
alone?
"Creeds have been the bane of the Christian church ...
made of Christendom a slaughter-house." -Thomas
Jefferson, to Benjamin Waterhouse, Jun. 26, 1822
There's an undeniable truth. Why not kill yourselves and do humanity a
favor?
Just stop dragging innocent people into your rampages, ignorance, and cultism,
Al. Don't join the death cult which is all these things and pretend that
you're not responsible, that they're not "true Christians," that the mythologies
don't support Christianity's history, and that you can't be held responsible...
not if you claim you willingly joined the death cult.
_LEARN_ a little bit about the history of the Christanic death cult. Then
stop pretending to defend it OR deny it.
~*~ A phone call to fido headquarters seems to be in demand.
- Brian La Plante
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: ALL THE GODS WORDS...
|Date: 24 Feb 96 12:39:48
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3fef
PID: FM 2.02
FR> His hatred of woman is typical of what Christianity has historically
FR> taught ideologically as well as what the Christanic cult teaches
FR> today.
as> Is that why nontheist historian Robin Lane Fox said
as> the Romans considered Christianity a "women's religion"
as> and pointed out that the Christian discouragement of
as> infanticide resulted in a more equal split between the
as> sexes?
Amazing. The death cultist tries to concoct an argument to defend the hatred
of women by trying to work in what a "nontheist" historian said about Paul/
Saul's cult from which the Christanic death cult arose.
No, let's not ignore the history of the Christanic death cult just yet,
Al, and pretend that the basis for the Christanic death cult survived and
is something like the contemporary cult which spawned its own bloody history.
~*~ Besides being wrong, he's probably a chicken shit too. - Kirby Nixon
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/
890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: BOOK HIM, DANNO
|Date: 24 Feb 96 12:52:26
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3ff0
PID: FM 2.02
FR> "Prometheus was not sentenced unjustly."
as> Oh. It's allright to have a vulture rip out your
as> entrails for creating men and teaching them how to use fire?
FR> As usual the Christanic death cultist decides not
fr> to understand the reasons why myths are created.
as> No, Fred.
Denial is pointless, Al, when you quote the very words I typed and your
very own attempt to interpret them to fit your agenda. Next time don't
quote the test so you have at least a small chance of getting away with
your denials.
as> You simply had the bare statement. It is not my fault that
as> you chose to make it obscure, nor is there any "decision"
as> involved in trying to decipher your imprecision.
"...obscure..." There is nothing "obscure" in the statement of fact that
Prometheus wasn't sentenced unjustly. It _might_ prompt a lack of undersrtandig
from those who don't understand the basis of the "Adam/Eve/Pandora" myth
but it wasn't "obscure" at all.
No, you simply elected to interpret it to fit whatever agenda your masters
have told you to.
FR> The Prometheus myth is the same myth as the "Adam, Lilith, and Eve"
FR> myth as well as the same as the "Pandora" myth and the "Lucipher"
FR> myth. All of them attempt to explain the same thing; specifically why
FR> the gods and goddesses punish humanity for no apparent reason. The
FR> fact that humanity's hard lot in life doesn't _have_ a reason wasn't
FR> good enough for people so they invented myths.
FR> And they concocted deities like yours.
as> Well, at least it's an explanation for your statement, thanks.
Why pretend ignorance when you have enough of it as it is?
as> You seem to be quoting someone, but don't recognize it offhand.
FR> Yep. I'm quoting myself. Learn from your intellectual superiors.
as> Oh, I AM.
And yet you remain a believer in the occult.
as> I've read a fascinating book by Martin Gardner--perhaps you
as> remember him, the person who used to do the "Mathematical Games"
as> section in Scientific American?
I know Mr. Gardner. He's a Hume class skeptic who has written several of
the books which are in my library.
as> I'm learning quite a lot from my intellectual superiors.
You interpret what your intellectual superiors say in the light of your
own superstitions, Al. You don't learn from your intellectual superiors,
you interpret what they say to fit your preconcieved notions.
as> YOU, on the other hand, seem to have the anal-retentive
as> feature of putting your own statements in quotes.
Amazing. Claim ignorance and then pretend that what you claim to not understand
is easilly discounted simply because it's in quotes. Amazing.
as> Which is one reason I don't class you as an intellectual superior
Nonsense. You don't recognize intellectual superiority (or moral superiority)
because you're a cultist who has had his critically thinking facilities
damaged by constantly trying to make harsh reality for your preconcieved
notions. It comes from having to interpret the mythologies you want to believe
into a perfectly rational basis to form deity constructs from. It's made
you intellectually lazy.
as> but rather, as a trolling, snide, arrogant anti-Christianic bigot.
The undeniable truth has turned you into an angry, resentful clod.
as> But of course, you told us not to take you seriously.
as> And BELIEVE me, I'm not.(Gentle smile.)
Your own denials of the embarrassing truths I force you to look at evidences
that you do, in fact, take the embarrassing truths VERY seriously. Seriously
enough to the point that you try in desperation to deny them.
as> And it seems---rather irrelevant. Any explanation?
FR> Try learning from your very inability to discern the message.
as> Try learning from your inability to make your message CLEAR, Frederico.
Pretend ignorance again. Sadly you have all you can handle already.
as> And don't blame your poor writing style on the reader.
Don't blame your intellectual superiors for _your_ lack of understanding.
~*~ I am free to think any way I please. I Corinthians 6:12. - Jim Staal
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: Christian pedophiles
|Date: 24 Feb 96 12:59:50
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3ff1
PID: FM 2.02
FR> If you're a Christian then that means there's a 33% chance of you
FR> being a pedophile. Statistically speaking, that is. Christanic death
FR> cult clergy is the single highest profession of child rapists in the
FR> United States.
as> Sources, please? For you are saying a good third of
as> Christian clergy are pedophiles. I would like to see
as> some backup of the above.
Once again the Christanic death cultist pretends never to have seen the
dozens of postings he denies. And, yet again, the death cultist can be
counted upon to ignore the references again:
Don't review "Don't Call me Brother" by Austin Miles -- a
fundy just like yourself. No doubt you'll just call Miles
a "not TUE Christian" and ignore his revelations. You're
going to ignore his _conservative_ diary logs' finding over
33% homosexual child molestors among Christanic clergy as
just "not TRUE Christian bigotry."
Also don't review PBS's "Sins of the Fathers" -- a documentary
on the Christanic death cult's lack of desire to do anything
about the epidemic pedophilia that Christianity harbors.
Ignore the percentages of Christanic clergy that are caught
as well as the percentage of Christanic clergy which have had
claims of child molestation filed against them.
Don't educate yourself, Al. That way brings about an end of faith.
~*~ If he were a lawyer, he'd work for the Enquirer. - Hector Plasmic
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: MESSIAH GATE 5
|Date: 24 Feb 96 13:01:25
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3ff2
PID: FM 2.02
as> Ahhh, now THAT sounds more like the real Fred Rice talking,
as> the rational individual that I knew must be behind the "better
as> educated" facade.
FR> There's no longer even an attempt to debate rationally coming from
FR> you. Here you are talking about mythologies written by anonymous
FR> frauds as if they were real. That's irrational and silly, equal to
FR> believing that everything you read in a Wonder Woman comic book is
FR> real.
as> You seem to have a Wonder Woman fetish. Ah, well...
You seem to think that the classical Christanic mythologies are scientifically
more valid than Wonder Woman comics. You're also trying to demand that
the mythologies have evidence of deities in them.
That's as silly as claiming Wonder Woman lives aftr reading a comic book.
~*~ Johnny, you really must realize that without any evidence to support
your claims, what you say is indistinguishable from the ramblings of a
madman, save that your mental illness is socially acceptable.
- Tyler A. Wunder
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: SATANIST LAYS AN EGG.
|Date: 24 Feb 96 13:02:35
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3ff3
PID: FM 2.02
FR> You know, as a self-professed "Satanist" you sure do give the religion
FR> a bad reputation. Was that your intention? Are you really a fundy
FR> Christian?
as> AAAAAHHHHH!!!! WHAT A HORRIBLE THOUGHT!!!!
FR> The thought that Satanists could eventually match Christianity
fr> is terms of body count and inhuman tyrannies?
as> He.
as> Hehehaha.
as> Hahahahahahahahhaahah!!!!!!!
as> BWAHAHAHAHAAHAHAAHAAHAHAAHAHAHAAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Perhaps you find the history of Christianity amusing. I don't.
~*~ Ok, you win. You proved that your god it the best there ever was at
hid n' seek. Now, trot him out here so that we can give him his reward.
- Dan Ceppa
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: ABORT ALL THEM Promise Keepers! (Then eat Staal's remains.)
|Date: 24 Feb 96 13:34:56
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3ff4
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 31226b40
PID: FM 2.02
sa> And Brave Sir Fredric ran away, screaming
sa> "ABORT THEM ALL! (Then eat Staal's remains.)"!
Charming. }:-}
sa> Oh, I think Miller's for real, even
sa> taking his sex areas into account.
FR> That would mean that he's even a worse hypocrit
fr> than even Staal, Hardy, and Jones.
sa> No shit. Well, I'd tie him with Staal
sa> and his alter-egos, but hey.
Not to mention the fact that Stall continued to post after his "I'm Leaving!"
whine. In all seriousness I can't help but think that some of these guys
have been told my their masters to stick it out here in HolySmoke to try
to "save" the hurtful heathens. He _might_ have told his masters that he
left and was then told to get right back in here and "save" us.
sa> After all, look at those televangelists caught fooling
sa> around with hookers, and all the priests and whatnot
sa> into little boys (literally).
FR> I'd rather not. I've got no problem with hookers;
fr> they fill an economic nitch and a social nitch. The rape
fr> of children is deserving of life inprisonment without the
fr> possibility of parole.
sa> I personally think the only niche prostitutes (male and female)
sa> fulfill is that of "disease vector", but folks utilising them risk
sa> a hell of a lot more than jail anyway. Child molestation is still
sa> worse, though.
Yes, disease is the problem. But guys and gals who give it away for free
are also factoring in greatly into the equation.
sa> (As an aside, I'd laugh like a hyaena if it were found Swaggart
sa> contracted AIDS from his little plaything. It would just be such
sa> poetic justice ..)
And most every other Christian would pretend it's "god's curse." I would
be mildly amused as well yet I would wait for the millions who would try
to pray-away his HIV infection and _then_ laugh when they concoct justification
for why Swaggart died anyway.
sa> Just because he's a Christian doesn't mean he can't be a pervert.
FR> Hell, I should have _expected_ it! }:-}
sa> :)
Seriously, though. I should constantly hold in mind the hypocricy.
sa> But I requested that my access be _cut_ so that I can't see the
sa> areas any more. I bet not many sysops get requests for access
sa> LOWERING. I simply have no use for such areas, and I've no
sa> interest whatsoever in seeing them or their contents. So I'm a
sa> heathenish prude. Sue me.)
FR> I don't think so. I just don't see the fascination. Prior to my
FR> marriage I would fuck _any_ girl old enough to know better. }:-}
FR> Reading about and bragging about fantasies, though, which few of the
FR> participants will ever try is just kinda pathetic.
sa> To say the least ...
I got about a dozen GIF files from several people on Internet. I still
kept one called "KOAN1.GIF." I quite like it. }:-} I got rid of the rest
but this one I'll keep. I showed it to the JW consultant at work and he
liked it too. I gave him a copy. }:-}
sa> 3 or moresomes? Married, will cheat? Sex in public places?
sa> Yeeesh. Sounds like he hasn't had a .. partner .. in quite a
sa> while. And I doubt he'll ever get one, either.
FR> Oh there's some woman who'll be desperate enough to link up
fr> with him, I'll bet. Hell, women were calling into KFI to
fr> _defend_ the Promise Keeper that was on some months ago.
FR> I need to find Doctor Laura's book, "Ten stupid things
fr> women to do mess up their lives." }:-}
sa> Why spend the money? Just keep reading Maria Russell's posts.
Hey, that's "empty." Yet undeniably true.
sa> Cripes, I thought I was badly cowed, back in the late 80s and
sa> early 90s; but at the very least, I wasn't bound by rigid
sa> theological beliefs - just a very low self-image. Thus, I was
sa> able to get out of it before I got killed ... would Maria be able
sa> to?
I doubt it. Hundreds of millions of people saw O. J. Simpson beat
his wife. Putting it into the perspective of one's own husband's beatings,
I guess, just doesn't happen.
I must opine that women don't leave abusive men for the primary reason that
they have nowhere to go, no skills to market, and have their children's
health and safety in mind (and thus continue to play herself and her children
in danger.)
Is it really low self-esteem that keeps women inside rather than financial
bondage to the male?
~*~ You -NEED- this echo! It has become your crack cocain. - David Rice
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: If we're not being punished for something then life isn't being fair
|Date: 24 Feb 96 13:45:14
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3ff5
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 31226b41
PID: FM 2.02
FR> In previous versions of the "Satan" myth, Satan was the one who
FR> weighed people's "souls" in a scale against a white feather. If the
FR> "soul" weighed more than the white feather, it was "Satan's" job to
FR> escort the individual into a level of the "Hell" myth.
sa> ? If true, it looks like the Christians hijacked yet another
sa> people's mythos. In Egyptian mythology, it was Anubis' job to
sa> weigh the heart against a white Feather of Truth to determine what
sa> fate the soul (or ba or ka or whichever piece of it happened to be
sa> relevant in this case) deserved. If the heart was heavier than
sa> the feather, the soul (or whatever) was consumed by a creature
sa> that looked like a cross between a croc and a hippo.
FR> Lovely. It seems there's _nothing_ that Christians haven't
FR> taken from second-or-more generation variations of religions which
FR> predate theirs.
sa> Apparently not.
I doubt if there's anything unique to the Christian religion. I'm reading
"Gods & Myths" (note the bifurcation?) and came across yet another "global
flood" myth which predates the Babylonian/Sumerian myth.
sa> I was quite surprised to see your paragraph about "Satan" -
sa> I hadn't realised that such a view of him existed ...
sa> and I'm quite disgusted at the idea of Anubis being made
sa> equivalent to "the devil" in this case.
ShyDavid had posted the links which, as I recall, didn't include the "Lucipher"
link. As it stands, most Christians can't distinguish Dante's writings
from their own myths nor contemporary entertainment shows like "The Exorcist"
from their beliefs.
sa> It's bad enough they took the visage of Pan (who, of course,
sa> was never "evil", except perhaps to hunters he scared the shit
sa> out of in certain tales about him after he was moved from the
sa> shepherd's fields into the woods).
Yes, they reworked Pan, damn them, into their own dark beliefs. Pan _did_
kidnap a woman he wanted and turned her into a panpipe to play, though.
}:-}
sa> Anubis was never an "evil" god, either, though he was
sa> associated with death.
Christian black-and-white mentality. "Death gods == bad, all others ==
good."
~*~ It does not take a complex to know that I am persecuted
in this conference. - Jesse C. Jones
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Gwenny the Pooh
|Sub: woe to the sinners
|Date: 24 Feb 96 13:47:50
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3ff6
REPLY: 1:128/203.2@fidonet.org 31225d24
PID: FM 2.02
> Just wanted to let you all know that Wild Hunter got a job. Yeppers,
> and at five dollars more an hour than he was making a MCI....which was
> already considerable. He got it within a day of the deadline I gave
> whichever fundy asked me what I needed to believe in god, but since
> Rachel is still missing, I can't give Jehovah credit. I figure it was
> either just Wild's hard work or all those green candles I burned in
> December.
>
> Anyway, adding that to the raise I get as being a new manager trainee,
> and we are back among the financially solvent.
Too cool! Good for you! Perhaps you guys can afford to keep a Goat now!
> Valhalla or Niflhel -- Which for you?
Um, I'll take Neflhel -- I hear the Goddess Hel is tight and sassy in leather.
~*~ 2 Kings
6:28 And the king said unto her, What aileth thee? And she
answered, This woman said unto me, Give thy son, that we may
eat him to day, and we will eat my son to morrow.
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Asmodeus times out! (And strikes out)
|Date: 24 Feb 96 13:53:18
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3ff7
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 621d97dc
PID: FM 2.02
jjh> Today is THE DAY.
jjh>
jjh> As many of you know (from repeated reminders I have posted if for
jjh> no other reason) that TODAY is the last day in which Asmodeus (AKA
jjh> Buttpimple Satanist) has to effect my death.
Are you at least feeling a little heachey or have slight tummy upset? Any
sniffles, tired feet, ringing in the ears, or major blood loss or anything?
jjh> I need only survive today and Buttpimple will have failed yet again.
Much as he failed with life.
> And whether I live or d e, this will be the last of the up ates.
> Their humor value has been thoughly exhauste an I've grown
> somewhat tire of the whole or eal. It's time to move on to new
> material. By ommorow Asmo e s wi be n thing m re than a min r f
> tn te in the FAQ if he even rate that high y.
> B t in the rare event that I act a y ho ie, I've p rchace
> thi rea y ifty b ack q i hro with a y ow ight i g bo
> t acro th fro t. A p r th i tr cti i my wi my b y i
> g i g t b vi p i t ma p c , packag p a br w
> wrapp r w th t a r t r a r by w y f h
> P rv c r m y c
> - x r r h c ry. My f r g p c
> w b h r ff c .
You're now a fundy!
~*~ Ah, yes. The Bible: the Christian's Mein Kampf. - David Rice
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Rob Burcham
|Sub: Our Daily Powetry
|Date: 24 Feb 96 13:58:14
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3ff8
REPLY: 1:280/9 17131bcd
PID: FM 2.02
GM> Your words of pure, eternal truth
GM> Shall yet unshaken stay,
GM> When all that man has thought or planned,
GM> Like chaff shall pass away. -Anon
rb> Your words of myth, eternal lies
rb> Shall pass away some day,
rb> Then, the thoughts and deeds of man
rb> Will finally have a say. -RB
Oh! Me next! Me next!
Your words of hate and evil intent
Shall not debunk the intelligent,
When all you claim is said and done
Your cult's response is often a gun - FLR
~*~ We'll get his clown suit off some day, I promise you. - Steve Quarrella
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Robert Berndt
|Sub: Abe Lincoln
|Date: 24 Feb 96 14:01:48
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3ff9
REPLY: 1:280/26 4e04d4b6
PID: FM 2.02
> To all who think that Abe Lincoln hated
> religion, you might find this interesting......
> A Proclamation
> From the President
> For a Day of Humiliation, Fasting and Prayer 1863
You don't understand how the government of the United States work, I guess.
Is that ignorance dictated by your masters or did it come naturally?
~*~ "I hereby call upon the hordes of Satan and all the Demons of Hell
to
bring utter damnation and static cling to your next load of laundry."
- Robert Curry
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Ryan Shaw
|Sub: TSG
|Date: 24 Feb 96 14:03:54
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3ffa
REPLY: 1:280/333@fidonet.org 270109c9
PID: FM 2.02
SA> Your continued reference to these "12 Jewish Bankers" sounds very
SA> much like a newly adopted logo. It seems to have had a very strong
SA> impact on you, that you include it in most of your recent messages.
SA> Is that an original finding, or did someone present that line to
SA> you? It sounds like something out of the Comic News.
rs> We can't tell you. You never showed us the secret handshake.
Styx forgot to renew his membership in teh TSG COnspIrAsEa. }:-}
~*~ It was a voluntary suicide. - Phil Morrison
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: The bumble-fuck god's Word
|Date: 24 Feb 96 14:06:41
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3ffb
REPLY: 1:123/67 31232057
PID: FM 2.02
BJ> My words may be mixed up and that is ok, but I
bj> know one that his words are never wrong,
ss> Oh? What about these verses?
ss>
ss> LEV 11:20 " `All flying insects that walk on all fours are to
ss> be detestable to you. [21] There are, however, some winged
ss> creatures that walk on all fours that you may eat:
ss> Do insects have four legs?
"But but but... But the bible doesn't say that!"
Any bets that the clown claims his mythologies don't say that?
~*~ I deleted the bible because I needed the room
for all of my Satanic literature - David Rice
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Rodney Green
|Sub: Very much mythology!
|Date: 24 Feb 96 14:09:48
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3ffc
REPLY: 1:260/801.0 312404d6
PID: FM 2.02
KR> He's dead, at any rate. Not much to talk about.
rg> God is alive, Jesus is very much alive
rg> in the hearts of TRUE believers everywhere.
By that illogic, there are millions of deities -- billions if you include
ancestor worship. That's pretty silly, Rodney.
~*~ As for the road map, those roads are paved with the bodies of more
than one person who died not for your religion, but because of it.
- Dan Ceppa
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Mark staal the lump
|Date: 24 Feb 96 14:15:35
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3ffd
REPLY: 1:157/200 50020d53
PID: FM 2.02
> FR> FM.OVROverlay error: Overlay file has been corruptedUnable to
> FR>open overlay file Insufficient memory for overlaysU
> FR> ^&G&Wxz&G&WFV* 73_
> FR> sv
> FR> WWWWWW#X,X2X]
kdm> I haven't the slightest idea what this is, but
kdm> I thought you might want to see it.
Thanks! I had a strange glitch on The Skeptic Tank after I sacrificed a
cvan of Diet Coke to the keyboard and noticed this go out after it was scanned.
What fun.
~*~ So, how come there are no "talking snakes" nowadays? - Scot Vertullo
Because you are not righteous enough to hear them talk... - Raoul Newton
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Styx Allum
|Sub: Hardy's "atheist hypocrisy" buttfuck
|Date: 24 Feb 96 14:19:19
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3ffe
REPLY: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 1716e256
PID: FM 2.02
mh> Several atheists have taken it upon themselves to berate
mh> Christians for using shareware offline readers for more
mh> than 30 days without registering.
mh> Unless those atheists are hypocrites, they will come down
mh> equally hard on Frederick Leff.
sa> Why would that be, Michael? Fred didn't have anything to
sa> do with that message. It was inserted by my system. ;-)
You're such a card! (The Joker.) I thought Fred was being so clever but
I should have realized that Styx was up to his nasty, "Empty" tricks!
FL> ... This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 37 days.
mh> Of course, those atheists almost certainly *are* hypocrites.
sa> The joke's on you, Michael. That message originated on my board,
sa> (not Fred's) and Gedit is not running on my board. Notice that
sa> the message (when it appeared) always said 37 days.
sa> Originally, it said:
I'm going to have to remember to incriment my origin line every day.
~*~ Ft. Smith, Arkansas? Let me guess. The eldest male in your
household is referred to as "Uncle Dad". - Marty Leipzig
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: FOF
|Date: 24 Feb 96 14:21:13
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c3fff
REPLY: 1:246/15 311C149A
PID: FM 2.02
SW> Focus on the Family is a well respected Christian organization.
SR> HAhahaha!!! They've sure got you trained well enough.
sw> And look who has you trained...if you can see that is.
Let's see... Newton, Einstein, Bell, Locke, Archemedies... the list of
intellectuals who have trained him is pretty impressive and would require
a pretty extensive amount of time to enumerate.
You, however, swallowed everything the FoF cult sold you.
SW> the only master I have is Christ Jesus.
SR> That is for sure! Bow down and kiss your master's ass...fundy slave!
sw> The Lord rebuke you.
Is that a gun I see in your hand, Steve?
~*~ As far as "making the world a better place..." we don't do that here.
- Fredric Rice
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: FOF UPDATE, STAAL
|Date: 24 Feb 96 14:24:02
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c4000
REPLY: 1:246/15 311C1574
PID: FM 2.02
jB> FoF is a well-heeled hate group who, if they called
jb> themselves what they really are, are no better than
jb> the KKK. They HATE...gays, women, blacks, Hispanics,
jb> orientals, other religions. All in the name of Jesus,
jb> of course.
sw> Focus on the Family is a Christian organization that
sw> is praised for helping 1000's of souls come to Christ.
Among the ignorant that _may_ be true. It doesn't detract from the fact
that the cult is utterly evil and spreads hatred and bigotry in equal amounts
like they were the KKK -- another Christian group.
sw> What authority do you have to knock it. None at all.
Nonsense. You don't have to ask your masters for authorization to admit
that the evil cult is evil. You need only review what the cult does and
what it stands for. That's something YOU pretend to need authorization
for.
sw> Take some time to think before you reply, after
sw> all you are in controll arnt you Judith?
You should learn a little bit about the Focus on the Family cult, Steve.
~*~ Die and fry! You and your scum sucking in-bred brother, furd.
- Jim Staal (Defending his homophobia in HolySmoke)
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Terry Parker
|Sub: US Bans AbortionSpeak on 'Net
|Date: 24 Feb 96 14:29:22
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c4001
REPLY: 1:382/804.0 123a7f60
PID: FM 2.02
DW> 11 Feb 96 18:13, Fredric Rice wrote to David Worrell:
DW> with: Terry Liberty-Parker
DW> speaking of that putz, do you want to bet his name used to
DW> be just plain old Terry Parker, until he got swept up in
DW> this militia craze?
tp> Hey jerkface, did you have something you wanted to say to me;
tp> or do you just do your cowardly snipping behind your would-be
tp> opponents back?
Amazing. Years ago after I pointed out your right-wing extremist ignorance
and utter butt-fuckery, you demanded that I had stabbed you in your back.
And now you're accusing someone who posts in a public broadcast forum of
"snipping behind your back."
Let's spend less time parading up and down the sidewalk "arresting" government
officials and more time spent in High School, Terry.
~*~ Divide by zero error -- protection violation 0666 -- truth entered
brain. Truthfilter circle 0 fault. Creationist halted. Please call
the ICR. - C. J. Henshaw
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Your Daily Murder
|Date: 24 Feb 96 14:36:11
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c4003
PID: FM 2.02
> THE BLESSING OF PERSECUTION
> Read: Matthew 5:1-12
> Blessed are those who are persecuted
> for righteousness' sake, for theirs
> is the kingdom of heaven.
> -Matthew 5:10
THE BLESSING OF RAPE AND MURDER
Read: Numbers 31:17-18
"Now therefore kill every male among the little
ones, and kill every woman who hath known man by
lying with him. But all the women children, that have
not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for
yourselves."
~*~ Just shut up and sit back down and ride the bus like the rest of us.
- Patrick Humphrey
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Your Daily Deathcult
|Date: 24 Feb 96 14:38:18
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c4004
PID: FM 2.02
> ROLLS-ROYCE
> Read: Matthew 5:27-48
> You shall be perfect, just as your
> Father in heaven is perfect.
> -Matthew 5:48
MURDEROUS DEATH CULT
Read: Numbers 25:4,9
"And the Lord said to Moses, take all the
heads of the people, and hang them up before
the Lord against the sun..."
~*~ "But a short time elapsed after the death of the great reformer of
the Jewish religion, before his principles were departed from by
those who professed to be his special servants, and perverted into
an engine for enslaving mankind, and aggrandizing their oppressors
in Church and State." - Thomas Jefferson, to S. Kercheval, 1810
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jason Ballard
|Sub: Paganistic Followers
|Date: 24 Feb 96 14:43:11
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c4005
PID: FM 2.02
jw> For all those who are of the name Pagan
And what of Wicca?
jw> those who defy the right of god and and of heaven and of hell
The better educated can't "deny" what doesn't exist, Jason. Or do you demand
to insist that you deny the right of Zeus, Odin, and Hera?
jw> those who believe in the Earth
Um, in the event your masters didn't tell you, the Earth exists.
jw> and those who believe that it is the mother which gave us birth
Um, in the event no one ever told you, it many repects it is.
jw> stand together to take what is rightfully ours.
Oh? Is there any evidence for that?
~*~ To have an understanding of the universe one doesn't need
scientific technology. - Andrew Conner (A New Age Creationist)
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: winter redux
|Date: 24 Feb 96 14:46:04
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c4006
PID: FM 2.02
> Since the "promisekeepers" have agreed with known net scum and
> false christian scum scheidell@fdma.com to do illegal cancels,
> I will try to replace any cancelled post with two doctrinal posts
> showing why promisekeepers are a cult.
...cuts...
Neat! And yet he doesn't want to admit that "cultist" applys to any religionist.
~*~ You're debunked. Just stand there and bleed a little. - David Rice
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Ryan Shaw
|Sub: HolySmoke Pick Yer Poison List
|Date: 24 Feb 96 14:46:48
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c4007
REPLY: 1:152/67.0 1279ae91
PID: FM 2.02
rs> Kevin McKenzie Tired Snapple
Fredric Rice Rabid Atheist Diet Coke
~*~ Please take a number in the Martyr line and
respond when your name is called. - Steve Rose
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: US Bans AbortionSpeak on 'Net
|Date: 24 Feb 96 14:49:24
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c4008
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 3125fe6e
PID: FM 2.02
DW>> with: Terry Liberty-Parker
DW>> speaking of that putz, do you want to bet his name used to
DW>> be just plain old Terry Parker, until he got swept up in
DW>> this militia craze?
TP> Hey jerkface, did you have something you wanted to say to me; or do
TP> you just do your cowardly snipping behind your would-be opponents
TP> back?
dw>
dw> This is a public forum, isn't it?
Yep! the little clown who hates the American government some how thinks
that posting messages into a publically-accessable broadcasted forum some
how constitutes "snipping behind his back."
dw> I even included your full name, in case you did a text search
dw> on your name. Calm down before I sick the jack-booted government
dw> thugs on you, ok, junior?
Yeah, Diogenes. Climb back into your black helicopter and stay the fuck
away from this one. He knows all about you.
~*~ Would you like to concoct another opinion and stuff
it down Hawking's throat? - Hector Plasmic
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Whooping Crane tastes like Spott
|Date: 24 Feb 96 14:50:00
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c4009
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 3124fb2d
PID: FM 2.02
A> If refined right, it makes for great soap, also.
dw> Does it help cast effective curses? If so, you should get
dw> hold of some before cursing me. I'm still waiting.
I see J. J. Hitt's still in fine health.
~*~ My personal opinion that we were built by something is based
on the available evidence. Since it is an opinion and not
backed up with evidence. -- Bill Wolff
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Mike Hamilton
|Sub: Many gods
|Date: 24 Feb 96 14:51:54
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c400a
REPLY: 1:3648/101.5 3125f4ed
PID: FM 2.02
mh> You requested that I come over to this echo...
mh> I've just gotten it turned on.
That means Kevin gets to put another gold star on his monitor.
mh> This place looks like a battleground.
It's an educational forum which helps cultists escape.
mh> I take it from your post that you place no faith in Christ.
I can guess from your posts that you place no faith in Zeus.
mh> I am totally dedicated to Him.
You are "totally dedicated" to a a willful superstition.
mh> Did you have a comment or a question I can help you with?
I have one: Answer _HONESTLY_ where your deity constructs came from.
~*~ The only thing I ask of them is don't force their ignorance on me.
- Charlie Ray
Understood. You have all the ignorance you can handle as it is.
- Sandy Doonan
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Boylan's Appeal - End of Story
|Date: 24 Feb 96 14:55:46
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c400b
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 624fa8bb
PID: FM 2.02
jjh> For reasons set forth below, as well as those stated during the
jjh> hearing of January 19, 1996, the Petition for Writ of Mandate is
jjh> denied.
Neat! Now his next book will provide "conclusive proof" of the conspiracy
against him and the government's continued "cover-up."
~*~ But your juvenile campaign of attacking and deriding people of
religious faith may be doing incalculable damage -- for which you
will stand accountable before the ultimate reality.
- Jesse C. Jones (HolySmoke forum)
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: 50 messages in one packet?!
|Date: 24 Feb 96 14:57:16
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b8c400d
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 625b1779
PID: FM 2.02
> Holy Shit!
> I just pulled a Fred Rice!
Ha! You should be so lucky! }:-}
> Oh, well... It's time I rejoined the living.
> I've been dead for 4 days, 15 hours: A new record!
> I've out-Jesused Jesus.
Asspimple's curse still causing you to lose sleep?
~*~ How many days of the week are named after *Christian* gods? - Brian
Kolacy
April Fool's Day - Rob Burcham
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: Prewett's Christanic fantasies
|Date: 24 Feb 96 17:19:42
EID:1aa7 20588a75
MSGID: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 1b9152a2
PID: FM 2.02
JOHN PREWETT said:
JP> Before Kissinger croaks. I think before the year 2000.
There you have it. This lunatic's fantasies have 4 more years.
---
* Origin: This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 212 days (1:102/890.666)
SEEN-BY: 102/890 218/801
PATH: 102/890
|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Preston Simpson
|Sub: Viability
|Date: 15 Feb 96 09:49:21
EID:7079 204f4e20
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 31279dc7
REPLY: 1:123/318.0 312121a7
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Preston Simpson to Andrew Masten <=-
AM> Its consistent throughout the bible. Without the shedding of blood
AM> there is no forgiveness for sins.
PS> Why make the shedding of blood a requirement at all? Is God a
PS> bloodthirsty god?
No Preston. But God's attribute of mercy is not at the expense of justice.
If God arbitrailry forgave sin, that would be unjust.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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PATH: 138/255 316 318 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Styx Allum
|Sub: Jim Staal
|Date: 16 Feb 96 08:29:18
EID:bcfb 205043a0
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 31279dc8
REPLY: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 161532d4
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Styx Allum to Andrew Masten <=-
>> God loves unconditionally.
>SA> Does he love those that he condemns to eternal hellfire?
>SA> Unconditional, eh?
> Yes He does Styx,
SA> Then I find his style of love to be undesirable, as it inflicts
SA> pain and suffering needlessly. That, to me, is not love;
SA> any more than what you would no doubt consider rape to be.
> He doesn't reject you, you reject Him.
SA> Your god would first have to exist, for me to reject it.
SA> What I reject is your unfounded dogmatic belief system.
Thats fair enough. Do you have an alternate philosophy I might adapt?
>> He is just.
>SA> But he sends people to hell for not worshipping him on blind faith?
> No, they condemn themselves for rejecting Christ who made away
> for us.
SA> You'll have a hard time getting ANYONE to believe that people CHOOSE
SA> to burn in eternal hellfire. He/it would need to place them there.
SA> That's not love.
If I'm right, your disbelief will be a moot issue.
> I don't believe on the basis of 'blind faith'.
SA> You obviously have no concept of what the term means, to deny it so.
A belief in a statement in lieu of or contrary to evidence or facts.
>> He knows the future as if it already happened.
>SA> But you pray to him when he already knows what you want?
> Thats an acknowledgement of God.
SA> No acknowledgement is necessary if he's already that far ahead of you.
SA> Anything that you do would be redundant, as omnisciences requires
SA> predestiny. There would be no way for you to change an outcome
SA> that is already known. If you'll bother to think that through,
SA> you'll see that free will is not possible if the outcome is known
SA> before the choice is made. You must make the choice that is known.
SA> Otherwise, your "omniscient" god would be MISTAKEN.
If you went into a time machine and saw what would happen in the future
does that mean you determined it? Fore knowledge of the result of
choice's does not mean they are not real choice's.
SA> You can't have it both ways, Andrew. To believe in omnisicence AND
SA> free will... is to prove that you haven't thought it through.
I have wrestled with the same conundrum, but honestly believe its possible.
>> He is not a man that He should lie.
>SA> You have not read your bible; otherwise, you would know that he did.
> Then where is your chapter and verse?
SA> Ah... the bait has been nibbled on. Are you prepared to risk
SA> something in exchange for my time to look it up? If I provide you with
SA> the evidence that you seek, will you publicly proclaim that non-theists
SA> here know your bible better than you - a Christian - do?
SA> That is my condition. Accept it, or walk away the coward.
SA> Show some backbone for your lord - unless you are afraid to.
SA> [heh - either way, you're busted. I love a loaded deck.]
I don't doubt that some non-theists may well know there bible better than
I. I read it and study it a great deal. But how could I account for the
background of everyone posting in this echo? As for backbone? I'll let
my detractors be the judge of that.
>> He changes not.
>SA> Then explain why the new testament differs from the old testament.
> Because there two different contracts with man, but God is still
> the same.
SA> If man is still the same, who changed the contracts?
If you have a rudimentary understanding of the bible, you know the New
Testament is a fulfilment of the Old Testament. Besides, business partners
write up new contracts all the time. Not because they changed, but circum-
stances did.
>> There is none beside him.
>SA> Then explain who "us" and "our" referred to in Genesis 1:26
>SA> 1:26 And God said, Let us make
>SA> man in our own image, after our
>SA> likeness: and let them have dominion
>SA> [...]
> Thats the doctrine of the Trinity. There is one God, composed of
> three identities.
SA> If so, why does he not consistently refer to himself in the plural?
SA> Why does he command that you should have no other gods before him?
SA> If there were no others, such a statement would be meaningless.
SA> Would you go into a zoo and proclaim "No unicorns allowed!" unless
SA> you believed that such creatures were to actually exist?
SA> He must have felt it to be very important, to make it a commandment.
The other 'gods' He's refering to are primarily the pagan gods in abundance
at that time. Also, Christ refered to Satan as the god of this world. Jesus
Christ said that He and the Father were one. Also were baptised in the
name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The belief of most Christians
are that those 3 form the Trinity.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
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|From: Andrew Masten
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Thumb-sucking Evolungelica
|Date: 16 Feb 96 08:46:34
EID:5aff 205045c0
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 31279dc9
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 311fef38
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting David Worrell to Andrew Masten <=-
DW> 09 Feb 96 11:41, Andrew Masten wrote to Preston Simpson:
PS>> You misunderstand. The default state is non-belief. You claim
PS>> that God judged Nazi Germany. Got any real evidence of this, or
PS>> just your wishes and make-believe?
AM> I expressed an opinion.
DW> And, as usual, you did not back said opinion up with any facts. You
DW> didn't even use your normal bag of tricks and justify with with faulty
DW> statistics, supposition, hearsay, and just plain old general ignorace.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
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|From: Andrew Masten
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Thumb-sucking Fundy
|Date: 16 Feb 96 08:48:35
EID:76c7 20504600
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 31279dca
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 311fef94
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting David Worrell to Andrew Masten <=-
DW> 09 Feb 96 12:02, Andrew Masten wrote to Preston Simpson:
PS>> And a third to a half of all "unborn" infants die before they can
PS>> be born. Guess God's a bigger killer of children than humanity
PS>> ever can be.
AM> Thats just inflammatory rhetoric.
DW> Are you denying the claim that up to 1/2 of all unborn infants die
DW> before they can be born? It seems God doesn't care as much for the
DW> unborn child as you do.
I have no idea how many unborn infants die before birth. 1/2 seems high.
Attributing these deaths to God is inflammatory rhetoric. Can I attribute
all the successful births to the blessing and goodness of God?
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
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19/25 3637/1
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|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Thumb-sucking Fundy
|Date: 16 Feb 96 08:54:21
EID:54ec 205046c0
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 31279dcb
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 3120a745
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Andrew Masten <=-
LB> Lynda and Andrew were killing time yakking about Thumb-sucking Fundy:
PS> So God, in setting up a universe, regularly set about defying the
PS> rules therein? That doesn't sound like much of a god to me.
AM> No, on the rare occasion when He does we call that a miracle.
LB> Andrew -- if I'm following this discussion rightly, you all are
LB> talking about Creation, no? Well, just what is the purpose behind
LB> those rare occasions we call miracles? Aren't they generally believed
LB> to be God showing himself to us in a more direct manner than He
LB> normally does? If so (and if not, please tell my why you think God
LB> occasionally sets aside his own natural laws), then what would have
LB> been the purpose of creating the universe in a miraculous manner --
who
LB> was watching?
AM> The discussion was whether natural science preclude's the
AM> supernatural. I think its a moot issue. I can submit numerous
AM> quotes from scientists who dismiss the supernatural as
AM> unscientific.
LB> Well, they are, aren't they? Isn't that why it's called
LB> "SUPERnatural"?
Amen.
AM> To answer your question: Many, (though not all) scientists
AM> believe the universe and time popped into existence via the big
AM> bang out of nothing.
LB> ok. Doesn't have much to do with my question, as I wasn't asking
LB> about scientist's opinions, but let's keep going...
AM> To some extent, it was miraculous whether by natural cause's or super
AM> natural.
LB> I can go along with that, if you are using miracle in the more mundane
LB> sense of being anything rare and awe-inspiring. But I ask again, in
LB> what way *are* you using the word miracle. I've offered two, and have
LB> used it in both senses, but they are really describing different
LB> things. This is a case where defining the term's usage in this
LB> discussion will have everyone get on the same page. :)
I don't know if I can share your optimism that any will be on the same
page in this echo. But lets try. I define miracles as the temporary
suspension of the normal laws of physics and science. Since I believe
God created these laws of science for our benefit, it is no miracle
from His perspective to suspend such laws.
AM> There were eyewitnesses who testified to Christ rising from the dead
AM> under duress of death.
LB> ok. As there were humans in existance to BE witnesses, this is at
LB> least in the realm of possibility, although it has absolutely no
LB> bearing on my question, but let's keep going....
AM> If you don't believe them, why would you believe if someone wrote
AM> they witnessed the universe being created?
LB> That's one heck of a leap you just made! WHO wrote that they
LB> witnessed the universe being created?! According to scripture, mankind
I was invoking a hypothetical, that even if there were such witnesses, would
you believe there testimony. I was not suggesting that there was such a
witness. So no leap was made.
LB> was created AFTER the fact -- so who was there as WITNESS (rather than
LB> instigator) of this miracle? And if there were no witnesses, than what
LB> was the point in setting aside the natural laws which God himself would
LB> have set into motion? What would have been the purpose? (That makes
the
Again, I think miracles are only so from our perspective. Since as
you point out, prior to creation no natural laws had been made as
yet, ergo, the universe coming into existence is a creation event.
LB> second time I've posed the same question -- this time, try for an
LB> answer, ok?)
I think thats the best answer I have.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
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|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Thumb-sucking Fundy
|Date: 16 Feb 96 09:23:36
EID:54ec 20504ae0
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 31279dcc
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 3121d41c
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Andrew Masten <=-
LB> Andrew and Lynda were killing time yakking about Thumb-sucking Fundy:
AM> There were eyewitnesses who testified to Christ rising from the dead
AM> under duress of death.
LB> BTW -- I missed exactly what you said here the first time I read this.
LB> NOBODY claimed to have witness Christ "rising from the dead" -- there
LB> ARE claims of his ascencion, but the first witnesses to arrive at the
LB> tomb showed up AFTER THE FACT. If anyone claimed what you say they
did
LB> under duress of death, they failed to get their testimony included in
LB> scripture.
Correct. There testimony was seeing Christ alive, after his crucifixtion.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
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PATH: 138/255 316 318 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 16 Feb 96 09:27:24
EID:9dce 20504b60
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 31279dcd
REPLY: 1:157/200 4e140239
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Kevin D. Mckenzie to Andrew Masten <=-
KDM> ANDREW MASTEN spoke thusly to DON MARTIN:
AM> The quote I took was from Superforce. Since Paul Davies is an
AM> atheist and still claims were here by natural causes I didn't
AM> think a quote from him would need to be peer-reviewed.
KDM> Atheism doesn't give one special status in terms of producing evidence
KDM> for statements, Andrew.
I've only recieved one response with a quote, no reference to its source
and no consideration to being 'peer reviewed. I think the terms for
producing evidence are a one way street. That this is a religeous debate
echo is a misnomer, its really a Christain bashing echo.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
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SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
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|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 16 Feb 96 09:45:38
EID:9dce 20504da0
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 31279dce
REPLY: 1:157/200 4e14024a
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Kevin D. Mckenzie to Andrew Masten <=-
KDM> ANDREW MASTEN spoke thusly to DAVID WORRELL:
AM> I never quoted the odds. But here they are according to Francis
AM>Crick, L.M. Murkhin and Carl Sagan. Difficulty of evolving humans by
AM>chance processes alone are 1 in 10-2,000,000,000.
KDM> How do you get these numbers?
The three aforementioned scientists collaborated on a book called;
" Extraterrestrail Life" Mitt press 1973. I don't know how they arrived
at that figure, I know that Carl Sagan believes in evolution.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
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|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 16 Feb 96 09:53:08
EID:9d2c 20504ea0
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 31279dcf
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 3121efbc
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Don Martin to Andrew Masten <=-
DM> Andrew Masten said "Evidence" to Kelsey Bjarnason,
DM> adding:
AM> Okay, until you can demonstrate that God does not exist, you must
AM> admit the possibility that He does, or may, exist. Is that more
AM> rational?
See how I wrote "is that more rational?" I knew of course it wasn't.
DM> No, it is the fallacy of "proving a negative." By way of
DM> demonstration of why it IS a fallacy, let me be the first: I
DM> have here your signed promissory note in the amount of
DM> US$1.8 million. Prove I do not have such a note or admit the
DM> possibility that I do or may have it and pay up.
I think you should have included the post I was responding to. I said that
in
response to someone asking me to prove a negative. I'm well aware of the
fallacy of proving a negative.
SA> Does he love those that he condemns to eternal hellfire?
SA> Unconditional, eh?
AM> Yes He does Styx, He doesn't reject you, you reject Him.
DM> Inasmuch as we see evidence for the existence of Styx
DM> nearly daily around here and evidence for your imaginary
DM> superfriend not at all (despite repeated requests for the
DM> same), it would appear that while Styx may be the only one
Have you ever seen an atom? Or a nuetrino? Do you doubt they exist?
DM> around to DO any rejecting, the other is not around to
DM> reject. Your response, incidentally, does not address the
DM> point raised by Mr. Allum: The god you posit behaves in a
DM> manner that in humans is the crime of extortion (pay my
DM> "fire insurance" weekly or you'll have a fire here). How
DM> DOES such behavior square with the claim of unconditionally
DM> loving? Never mind who is rejecting whom: answer the
DM> question.
The unconditional love is manifest in His Son paying for our aquittal.
If a Governor offered you a pardon and you rejected it, would you blame
the Governor for sending you back to jail?
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
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PATH: 138/255 316 318 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 16 Feb 96 10:15:12
EID:b1c1 205051e0
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 31279dd0
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 892248B0
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Michael Hardy to Andrew Masten <=-
-=> Quoting Andrew Masten to Martin Goldberg <=-
MH> You might as well not have bothered. First I, then Al Schroeder,
MH> tried this exact tack. You could show that the odds of a
MH> life-sustaining universe existing by pure luck are 1 in
MH> 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
MH> 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
MH>
MH> 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
MH>
MH> 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
MH>
MH> 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
MH>
MH> 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
MH>
MH> 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
MH>
MH> 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
MH>
MH> 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
MH> and the response would still be "So?"
Carl Sagan and two other scientists estimates for chance process of
human evolving at 1 to 10exp 2,000,000,000. That would be several
thousand pages of zero's.
The single most common objection was the parameters only included life
as we know it. Thats not entirely true, some parameters would exclude
any life period. Bottom line, whether they admit it or not, there
matieralistic point of view is just as 'faith based' as a creationist
point of view. Can't give up hope though. You peck away at thier main
points of objection. Who can say when, or if, it will come to fruition?
The passion, and personal invective they use suggest there arguments
are more of a salve to thier conscience.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
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|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Preston Simpson
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 16 Feb 96 10:34:27
EID:55a5 20505440
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 31279dd1
REPLY: 1:123/318.0 31225201
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Preston Simpson to Andrew Masten <=-
DW> Are you making the claim that life only occurs on rocky planets? For
DW> that matter, are you making that claim that planets of any sort are
DW> required for life? I trust you have evidence to support this claim.
AM> No, David. That old saw ain't going to cut the mustard. I asked
AM> him if he knew of life on gaseous planets. And again you deleted
AM> his post.
PS>
PS> And again you completely missed the gist of what I was saying in your
PS> eagerness to burn that little straw man of yours, Andrew. I wasn't
PS> claiming that life outside of the kind of life we know of existed at
PS> all. I was suggesting the possibility of such life. Are you able to
PS> understand the difference between the two?
If I suggest the existence of a creator, I am immediatly confronted with
a demand for evidence. But, evidently, you can postulate what ever musings
come to mind, with no need or reference to evidence.
PS>> Unwarranted conclusion. Why could it not have been Allah, Odin,
PS>> Zeus, Ahura Mazda, or any of the pantheon of entities that
PS>> humanity has or does worship?
DW> I see you failed to answer his question. Why must this designer you
DW> speak of be Jehovah?
AM> If you don't believe we are created, what difference does it
AM> make? If you do, you can compare religions for yourself.
PS> Are you going to answer the question, Andrew, or dodge again?
You should know by now that the pundits of this echo don't dictate
to me what I will or won't answer. The response I gave is sufficient.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: flood
|Date: 17 Feb 96 08:10:48
EID:70c9 20514140
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 31279dd2
REPLY: 1:121/45.0 31219e12
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Sue Alexander to Andrew Masten <=-
-=> Quoting Andrew Masten to Sue Alexander <=-
KD> They are not good or right. Demanding that women remain silent, for
KD> example.
AM> If your reffering to the admonishment in Corinthians, its because
AM> women were disrupting the church by asking there husbands questions
in
AM> the middle of service.
SA> Could you tell me which passage you found this bit of information
SA> in? Thanks in advance...
AM> 1st Cor. 14-35. I should have wrote that in my reply. It should
AM> be noted that the church of Corinth was rife with problems. It
AM> was a carnal church. The culture of the time also needs to be
AM> considered.
SA> 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not
SA> permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under
SA> obedience, as also saith the law.
SA> 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands
SA> at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
SA> ...but I did not find any indication that this was because the women
SA> were too loud or otherwise disruptive.
That Paul said they should ask questions at home suggests that talking
to there husbands during service wasn't a good thing. Even today, if
a boss were having a meeting, it would be rude for people to be talking
to each other.
SA> I also found these passages that could be used to support the
SA> position of women in the church.
SA> (quote)
SA> 12:22 Nay, much more those members of the body, which seem to be more
SA> feeble, are necessary:
SA> 12:23 And those [members] of the body, which we think to be less
SA> honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our
SA> uncomely [parts] have more abundant comeliness.
SA> 12:24 For our comely [parts] have no need: but God hath tempered the
SA> body together, having given more abundant honour to that [part] which
SA> lacked:
SA> 12:25 That there should be no schism in the body; but [that] the
SA> members should have the same care one for another.
SA> 12:26 And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it;
SA> or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
SA> 12:27 Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular.
SA> (unquote)
SA> So, unless women are not a part of the body of Christ, they are
SA> members and should be honored and cared for as such. How is honor to
SA> be served by having that portion of the body remain silent for no good
SA> reason other than their extra X chromosome?
Women are most certainly a part of the body. In the church I currently
attend, many women are teachers of various grades. A women who is head
of the womens bible study occasionally preaches to the congregation in
the evening service. More women than men give words of phophecy before
the congregation. And we've had visiting women in the ministry preach
before our congregation.
In Pauls time the culture was that women should be seen and not heard,
Pauls concern wasn't whether that was right or not, but how non-believers
would percieve if women were speaking and teaching in the church. The
harsh practices concerning women are still prevalent in that region
even today. But I'll give you another example. Women in some cultures
don't wear shirts. There not being lewd or provocative, there simply
wearing the attire appropriate for the culture and the climate. If
ministers were to preach there, there objective should be to get their
hearts right with God, not whether they wear shirts or not. Nonetheless
should a women from there come to a church here, it would be totally
inappropriate for her to attend services shirtless. Why? Because in
our culture, it would be considered lewd and provocative.
SA> I also found this passage amongst a passage about speaking in
SA> tongues, but thought it had relevance here...
SA> (quote)
SA> 14:10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and
SA> none of them [is] without signification.
SA> (unquote)
SA> Am I, as a woman, one kind of voice in this world? If so, what I
SA> say is significant according to this passage. Why then is my voice
SA> not significant enough to be heard in church??
I hope what I wrote above is a help. Of course if you really want to
find out, go to a couple of churches. Look for ones that are including
women in the ministry.
Sincerely, Andrew.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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PATH: 138/255 316 318 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Thumb-sucking evolungelic
|Date: 17 Feb 96 08:41:35
EID:eb0c 20514520
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 31279dd3
REPLY: 1:157/200 4e1402e3
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Kevin D. Mckenzie to Andrew Masten <=-
AM> None of the physical type, but a philisophical argument.
KDM> Ye gods, philosophy.
Philosophy, is more rational basis for belief then science, because science
can't get off the runway without philisophical presuppositions.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
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PATH: 138/255 316 318 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Viability
|Date: 17 Feb 96 08:45:33
EID:9ff0 205145a0
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 31279dd4
REPLY: 1:157/200 4e140338
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Kevin D. Mckenzie to Andrew Masten <=-
AM> Its consistent throughout the bible. Without the shedding of blood
AM> there is no forgiveness for sins.
KDM> Why? He's omnipotent (yes, it's a big word. Look it up. No, not
in
KDM> the Sesame Street Dictionary, get a real one). Why must blood be
KDM> shed? Or is your god no god?
What justice would there be with God if He forgave sin without a price.
What would you think of a magistrate who just let criminals go on a
whimsy?
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
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PATH: 138/255 316 318 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Sue Alexander
|Sub: flood
|Date: 17 Feb 96 10:14:07
EID:70c9 205151c0
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 31279dd6
REPLY: 1:121/45.0 3123049c
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Sue Alexander to Andrew Masten <=-
AM> Those witnesses are dead. Many paid with there lives and would not
AM> recant no matter what form of torture awaited them. Do you think
AM> Nero throwin christians to lions in the colliseum is just myth?
RB> No, I don't. But human willingness to die for causes or
RB> beliefs does not make the cause righteous or the belief true.
AM> But its strong evidence that they believed thier own claims that
AM> Christ rose from the dead. Would they suffer execution all for a
AM> story they made up?
SA> Ahh, but you have part of the answer already. Willingness to die
SA> for what they believe is reason enough to die for a cause, at least
SA> for some people. This does not mean that what they believe happened
SA> really did, however.
Oh?
SA> If I had a strong belief that time would cease to exist if I do
SA> not kill myself and I had a desire to make sure that time continues,
I
SA> may kill myself to make sure in my mind that time will continue. Does
SA> this mean that the only reason time would continue is that I killed
SA> myself?
SA> Think about it...
But would you kill yourself if you knew you were only lying about
time running out?
SA> Sue
SA> ... A thing is not necessarily true because a man dies for it.
SA> ... But its reasonable to think he believed it.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
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PATH: 138/255 316 318 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Andrew Masten
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 17 Feb 96 11:25:47
EID:2236 20515b20
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 31279dd7
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 3121941c
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting David Worrell to Andrew Masten <=-
DW> Flattery will get you nowhere. Evidence, on the other hand, will
DW> improve your standing.
Then I must be standing head and shoulders above my detractors who rarely
if ever rely on evidence for thier myoptic views.
AM> Do you call citing facts from a
AM> reference source plagerizing?
DW> It is plagiarizing when you don't give the source.
Pla-gar-rize To steal and use (the ideas or writings of another) as one's
own. -The American Heritage Dictionary-
My source was from a book called The Creation Hypothesis. The actual table
of parameters I cited was from a conglomeration of sources over half a
page of fine print.
Of course you have yet to cite a single source in rebuffing the evidence
I
presented.
DW> And yet you still have very little understanding of what science
DW> actually is. You're even more stupid than I imagined was possible.
DW> I'm still waiting for you to tell me just how science precludes God.
And I'm still waiting for you to tell me what your credentials are,
what degree's you have and what was your master thesis?? As for your
question that was asked and answered.
DW>> Objections to (otherwise known as "poking holes in") your
DW>> so-called evidence do not require evidentiary support, bozo. Go
DW>> take that logic class I told you about.
Hmmm. So you can make up what ever nonsense you want, and then claim
its poking holes in my evidence. In the words of a famous scientist
aboard the U.S.S. Enterprize, " I find that highly illogical."
AM> You accuse me of being dishonest. Yet, you delete the post to
AM> which I responded. As I recollect, Preston was making the bold
AM> claim that there's life as we don't know it.
DW> You recollect wrongly. Preston was saying that life as we don't know
DW> it might be possible with different values for the constants. If you'd
ML>And all we ask is evidence; real, cold, hard, physical evidence
ML>for the support of these claims. Otherwise it's all just some
ML>hoary mental construct without any sort of foothold in reality.
ML>And, now, how can one evaluate the pros and cons of purely
ML>mental constructs?
How indeed!
AM> He offered no evidence of this. Cited no authors or sources.
AM> Yet you don't criticise him.
DW> He didn't make the claim you claim he made. He was simply poking holes
DW> in your suppositions.
AM> No, David. That old saw ain't going to cut the mustard. I asked
AM> him if he knew of life on gaseous planets. And again you deleted
AM> his post.
DW> You make the claim, you back it up. There's plenty of carbon and
DW> nitrogen on Jupiter, a gaseous planet. Yet you claim that Jupiter has
DW> no carbon and nitrogen, and you seem to be claiming that life cannot
DW> form on Jupiter. Back your claims up, bozo.
Like the Sun and primeval nebula, Jupiter is primarily composed of
hydrogen and helium. Jupiters atmosphere also contains TRACE amounts
of water, ammonia, methane and other organic (carbon) compounds.
Source Groliers Encyclopedia.
Now whats the source you have for believing that there's plenty of carbon
and nitrogen on Jupitor? And what did you say were your credentials for
evaluating scientific data. Oh, your working undercover eh?
DW>> I see you failed to answer his question. Why must this designer
DW>> you speak of be Jehovah?
AM> If you don't believe we are created, what difference does it
AM> make? If you do, you can compare religions for yourself.
DW> What difference does it make? Don't you think that, if Shiva is the
DW> creator that he's gonna be pretty pissed that you wasted your life
DW> worshipping this Jehovah character? What *difference* does it make?
Do
DW> you *try* to look stupid, Andy?
With you leading the way I would have to redouble my efforts. If I believed
in no gods, a preference for one over the other would make no difference.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 138/255 316 318 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dawn Kleuser
|To: All
|Sub: ANGELS....
|Date: 17 Feb 96 20:33:00
EID:02cc 2051a420
MSGID: 1:284/120 5201aae8
TID: InterEcho 1.16 6E011262
Hello, Everyone! I beleive very strongly in Angels, and would like to hear
any stories anyone has about them. No doubt there is a whole slew of skeptics
out there who would love to attack me on this subject, but I'm not lookin'
for a fight. Just wanna swap Angel experiences. Please respond if you'd
like to share, and I will also. Anyone having a question for me on the subject,
please ask away - but keep in mind that I will not be drawn into an argument
over the existence of Angels. Thanx!
... "Scotty, beam me up another Blue Wave message." ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- InterEcho 1.16
* Origin: Adventure Zone BBS, Linn Creek, Missouri, U.S.A. (1:284/120)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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PATH: 284/120 289/80 284/12 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Definitions for lumpy
|Date: 18 Feb 96 15:41:03
EID:020f 20527d20
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 31285b9e
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 89260E37
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Kevin and Dan were killing time yakking about Definitions for lumpy:
FR>Lynda _did_ post the above, as I recall. Just because she's usually
FR>reasonable and rational doesn't mean that she's an atheist.
KDM> As she said. I know she's a Christian, it's just that she usually
KDM> keeps her beliefs and other related items private.
DC> Don't tell me....
DC> She's had a cliterectomy....
(G) No, but I *did* recently get out of the cash register banging business
--
I heard those things can be DANGEROUS!!
Lynda Bustilloz bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "In politics, what begins in fear usually ends in folly."
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Him
|Date: 19 Feb 96 02:50:35
EID:4e1e 20531640
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 31285b9f
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 89264509
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Michael were killing time yakking about Him:
LB> Lynda and David were killing time yakking about Him:
DW>> damn! My catty-bitch meter just exploded! > plastic out of my face>;)
LB> It was a JOKE, David! Didn't you see the smiley? ;)
MH>
Hey! Now you're doing MY schtick! But then, I was doing yours... Isn't
role
reversal fun, sometimes? (G)
Lynda Bustilloz bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... Minor operation... Coal digging.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: apostate
|Date: 19 Feb 96 02:59:13
EID:5c7e 20531760
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 31285ba0
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012 126a1cb8
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and John were killing time yakking about apostate:
MH> Lynda has been terribly hard on Maria too.
MH> A few weeks ago, she apologized ...........
JP> I did not see that post.
I suspect very few people did, as it was posted shortly before FIDO's latest
rabid attack.
JP> Seeing it would have probably had
JP> some effect on my subsequent posts.
I appreciate you saying that, John. While I haven't been exactly thrilled
with the latest round between you and me, I have to admit that there are
kernels of truth in what you say -- although I think you go as far over
the
top in expressing them as you have ever accused me of doing with Maria.
However, I want you to know that I am listening to you, and gleaning good
advice when I find it.
JP> I'm going to ignore all posts [except those addressed to me]
JP> for the next week or so, just to let the air clear.
I also appreciate this -- perhaps if we can get on track, we can discuss
some
of the questions you wish to pose (although, I suspect that I must have
missed
a few, considering that you also are saying that I "refuse" to answer).
I
must explain now though that if I am to answer any questions, I would like
some
hope that they are being posed so as to lead to discussion -- NOT simply
to
provide you with fodder for a future attack. I am, frankly, quite weary
of
being called an apostate -- I can't keep you from thinking it, but if it
continues to be applied vocally, I will simply quit reading your posts.
If we
can disagree without namecalling, then I welcome the discussion.
LB> But the last few messages to her were civil and
LB> attempted to discuss issues -- they went unanswered.
JP> I haven't seen any from her to anybody for a while.
No, nor have I -- she posted for another couple weeks or so in Atheism after
she left here (I only lurked), but then left there as well.
Lynda Bustilloz bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... I went insane trying to take a close up picture of the horizon - s.w.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
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SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
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SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Jim Staal
|Date: 19 Feb 96 10:51:52
EID:3d80 20535660
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 31285ba1
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 8926450B
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Lynda and Michael were killing time yakking about Jim Staal:
LB> I understand your point, but there is a difference -- what Scot does
LB> in the privacy of his own home has no affect on anyone, other than
LB> possibly subjecting
LB> them to a bit of queasiness if they insist on trying to picture it.
LB> Assumably,
LB> your views are not just opinions, but something you vote on -- and
LB> that vote affects all of us. This is no different then Mike not only
LB> personally finding
LB> abortion to be wrong, but voting in an attempt to force that opinion
LB> on our country -- and taking a lot of grief in here for expressing it.
MH> And, like Styx, (my new conservative buddy, although I know he's
MH> still pro-choice) not feeling the least bit apologetic.
Haha! I don't EXPECT you to feel apologetic about it! (If you did, I would
then expect you to change your goals to match you're feeling that they are
"wrong") But, you've been told repeatedly (and for the most part, accept)
that expressing those views here will bring down the wrath of many in
Holysmoke. Styx of all people knows that that is the likely outcome of
expressing his own views, and it seems wierd to me that he should be outraged,
or surprised by the reaction. Or to assume that because Scot is vehemently
opposed to those views (and he has good reason to be), he suddenly isn't
Styx' friend. Neither Styx or Scot have changed one bit from who they were
a month ago, and should be able to discuss this without thinking their
friendship is at stake.
We are told that Christian views are accorded no "special" status here --
that
is, if you state an opinion, you don't get to jump back and say "You shouldn't
be so hurtful" about the response. Anyone whose been here more than a week
has tacitly given their approval for that policy. And the primary reason
given for the reactions we hear about Christianity is that our religious
views
have political consequences. What I'm saying is that if that is the case,
then no special status should be accorded one's political views, even if
you're
NOT religious, even if you are someone as well-respected and central to
holysmoke as our moderator Styx. And I find it absurd that both sides are
comparing the other to Christians. (G)
Lynda Bustilloz bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... Actions from sanity are not necessarily from feeling.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
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SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Steve Rose
|To: Mike Hamilton
|Sub: One Goat
|Date: 19 Feb 96 08:20:38
EID:7db8 20534280
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 118042e8
REPLY: 1:3648/101.5 3125f006
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
BJ> -+- PB2.12|FD2.12|FE1.45 [Regstrd]
BJ> + Origin: The Holo-Deck Hamilton Ont. Can.
MH> I've just turned this echo on and this is one of the first things I
MH> see.
Take your babble-blinders off. You'll be seeing a lot more than you bargained
for on this echo. More real than the delusions you have lived with for
so long.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: * Above Board * (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
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SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
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SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Steve Rose
|To: LES WILCOX
|Sub: Who cares?
|Date: 19 Feb 96 08:20:56
EID:76d8 20534280
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 118042e9
REPLY: 1:147/48 3640a133
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
LES WILCOX wrote in a message to DAN CEPPA:
-> Where are you going to run and hide this time? Behind the
-> skirts of your god that tells you not to steal?
LW> Would you like to make a $50.00 donation to the ministry so I
LW> can register this copy
Another jeezoid begging for money so his gawds won't condemn him for eternity.
But the palty $50 fee is peanuts compared to the lifetime of savings he'll
be dropping into his church-master's coffers.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: * Above Board * (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Steve Rose
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Alien autopsy
|Date: 19 Feb 96 10:06:17
EID:922a 205350c0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 118042f4
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 622e7be6
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
SR> What would it gain? We have supposed footage of an alien body
SR> being carved up like yesterday's turkey...and no one with any
SR> sense will give that team any credit for validity. Sure it is a
SR> hoax...but I must acknowledge that it took testicular fortitude
JJH> The claim made for the film is that it made in 1947, this is
JJH> patently false as the microphone seen in the film is a Shure
JJH> Brothers model that wasn't marketed until 1954.
I have heard at least two other glaring technical-prop continuity screw-ups,
too. Guess the hoaxers didn't do their homework well enough! :)
JJH> There are some indications that the shooting may have been done
JJH> on video and then later transfered to film, but the evidence is
JJH> less than convincing.
Not to mention many recent Music Videos which have an identical 'grainy
B/W' look to it, for artistic effect. One only needs to watch MTV for a
few hours (during any music segment) to see examples of a similar 'non-scratched'
16mm appearance. Just push the stock's speed and transfer it all to an Off-Line
editing computer.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: * Above Board * (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Steve Rose
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Don't Hitt me!
|Date: 19 Feb 96 10:07:50
EID:69f9 205350e0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 118042f9
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 625040f3
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
J.J. Hitt wrote in a message to Steve Rose:
SR> truly lack. It's no wonder you failed in all your attempts
SR> to curse J.J.
JJH> It's that line about his "utmost concentration" that cracks me up.
I swear I saw a bead of sweat suddenly appear on his forehead after his
ritual!
JJH> calling Asmodiddly a "babble fundy". Can Buttpimple Satanists be
JJH> babble fundies?)
Definitely.
Most are simply closet-fundies in disguise. They buy into the same blindingly
perpetuated clap-trap and simply decide to play a different type of character.
Much like choosing to play an 'evil troll' on some telnet MUD gaming site.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: * Above Board * (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Steve Rose
|To: Ryan Shaw
|Sub: HolySmoke Pick Yer Poison List
|Date: 19 Feb 96 10:12:55
EID:8b52 20535180
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 118042fc
REPLY: 1:152/67.0 1279ae91
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
RS> - The Unofficial HolySmoke Pick Yer Poison List -
RS> User Stance Favorite Poison
RS> ------------------------------------------------------------------
RS> The Late J.J. Hitt Death Spell Test Site Sugar-laden teeth rotting
RS> Marilyn Burge Freethinker Sutter Homes' White
RS> Zinfandel Ryan Shaw atheist draught Guinness
RS> Steve Quarrella Atheist Creemore Ale
RS> John Prewett Sister Lover/Bitch the blood of Christ
RS> Don Martin atheist Lagers, porters
RS> Preston G. Simpson agnostic Malted battery acid
RS> (a/k/a Coke) the ONE, true fag! High balls! (what else?)
RS> Lynda Bustilloz Christian/"catty bitch" Coffee, high-octane
RS> Kath. Wintersnight Witch coffee w\c&s, mead
RS> Thomas DelCano Pagan Pervert Fresh Menstrual Blood
RS> Kevin McKenzie Tired Snapple
Steve Rose Goddess' Lover Pimple Puss (Mountain Dew)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: * Above Board * (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Mike Hamilton
|Sub: Many gods
|Date: 19 Feb 96 07:33:50
EID:f223 20533c20
MSGID: 1:124/9005 31282824
REPLY: 1:3648/101.5 3125f4ed
PID: GED3 2.5 261LM3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Saturni dies February 17 1996, Dixit Mike Hamilton ad Kevin D. Mckenzie:
MH> You requested that I come over to this echo...I've just gotten it turned
MH> on. This place looks like a battleground. I take it from your post that
MH> you place no faith in Christ. I am totally dedicated to Him. Did
you
More appropriately, this echo is a place where Bible thumpers attempt to
pull the wolf costumes off of non-believers, only to find that the non-believers
really ARE wolves and that there are no sheep to be found underneath.
The wolves then eat the Bible thumpers.
--- GoldED 2.50+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Leon Askin Fan Club - 214/412-8457 (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
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PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Dan Oglesby
|Sub: ONE GOD NOT THREE
|Date: 18 Feb 96 16:00:00
EID:8ca8 20528000
-=> Quoting Dan Oglesby to Karen Davis <=-
DO> Ain't much help, but it does make sense when you think about it.
No, it doesn't make a bit of sense. A child is taught that god loves her
and will protect her from harm...or at least send angels in his place to
do it. That child is then abused by the people who taught her that and she
prays for what she has been promised, protection from the pain. She doesn't
get it.
What has the child done that requires 'god's justice'? In this instance,
god is less effective than a caring aunt, teacher or neighbor. But it is
unlikely that the child will even seek one of them out to help her...she's
most likely been told that god will send her to hell if she ever tells
anybody.
Really caring entity you got there. No thanks.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
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PATH: 372/911 200 270/101 218/801
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: FOF UPDATE, STAAL
|Date: 19 Feb 96 05:22:00
EID:db48 20532ac0
-=> Quoting Michael Hardy to Judith Bandsma <=-
MH> shred of evidence that FoF *hates* anybody. They disagree with
MH> certain moral ideas, but they don't -- that I've seen -- *hate* the
Oh, then their agreement that gays deserve the death penalty ISN'T a form
of hate? Their active campaigns to deny gays the right to work, the right
to obtain housing, the right to live a life free of harassment, is LOVE?
MH> Do you have any evidence at all to support what you're saying, or are
MH> you simply exhibiting your own bigotry? Your statement above is hate
MH> speech, unless you have something to back it up.
How many blacks, orientals and Hispanics belong to FoF? How many women (other
than as an adjunct to their husband/members)? Do blacks, orientals, hispanics
and women not hold the same views? They are conspicuous by their absence.
The following is just one of the things that FoF highly opposes, distorts
and even lies about in order to try to defeat. True protection for children.
Why, what a totally disgusting idea. If we protect them and see them as
people, they might even grow up to think for themselves. (And before
you start about it not starting with the 'right to be born' [and I KNOW
you
will], it is a step toward the day when pregnancies will be wanted and the
question doesn't arise.)
Understanding the Convention on the Rights of the Child
The United States has long been the champion of human rights. This month
provides an opportunity for the U.S. once again to speak out clearly that
human rights are universal and fundamental. Last February, the U.S. signed
the Convention on the Rights of the Child. This was the first step in the
process of U.S. ratification of this important human rights treaty which
defines minimum standards for the civil, economic, social, cultural, and
political rights of the child. It is time for the Senate to take the next
step and ratify the treaty, enabling the U.S. to join international efforts
to improve the lives of children around the world.
This treaty resonates well with national dialogue about how we prepare for
the future. A fundamental concept of the treaty is that the family is the
ideal environment for the growth and well-being of children. The treaty
requires nations that have ratified the Convention to respect the rights
of
parents to provide guidance and direction to their children in all aspects
covered by the Convention. For example, parents should, and do in this
country, make the decision to send their children to public or private
schools or to educate them at home.
Rather than infringing on the rights of parents, the Convention actually
strengthens parental rights. Its provisions are binding for governments
that
ratify it, not for individuals within the states. For example, when the
Convention refers to a child's right to freedom of association, it means
the
government cannot impose unnecessary restrictions on children's right to
form
or join groups. It does not empower children to join gangs or cults or
even
the Girl Scouts against their parent's wishes.
Most of the treaty is reflected either in the U.S. Constitution, national
or
state laws, or in other treaties the United States has already ratified.
The
provisions of the Convention are neither unique nor extreme. Freedom of
speech, religion, and assembly are already part of the U.S. Constitution
and
have been interpreted by U.S. courts as applying to children. Ratification
of the Convention would not extend these rights. In fact these articles
of
the Convention were modeled after our Constitution and were proposed by
the
U.S. negotiators under the Reagan Administration.
U.S. ratification would do more than reiterate our values. It would provide
support for children and parents here at home by establishing a useful
framework and set of clear guidelines by which legislators, officials at
all
levels of government, and even private organizations and individuals can
make
policies and programs. Further, it would require our government to assess
and report regularly on the condition of our children and our plans as a
nation to make needed improvements on their behalf. This reporting is made
to an international advisory committee, not to a court with any enforcement
authority. While mandatory reporting and planning do not necessarily
translate into action, they are a necessary precursor to it and help focus
attention and resources on children.
U.S. ratification also would improve the plight of children overseas by
giving the U.S. the opportunity to participate in the international body
set
up to monitor the Convention. Our voice, the strongest voice in the world,
would be heard and further progress on the protection of children.
Several countries have made tangible progress because of the treaty. India,
which has balked when faced with other means of international pressure to
enforce labor laws, has recently pledged to eliminate child labor in all
hazardous occupations, at least in part because of the Convention. The
treaty has triggered an overhaul of all of Vietnam's child-related laws,
and
new laws in that country -- such as one on juvenile justice -- mirror the
language of the Convention. As a direct result of the reporting process
of
the Convention, Sudan has announced its intention to abolish flogging of
children. Eritrea is in the process of incorporating into its laws parts
of
the Convention, such as language on non-discrimination and participation
rights. The treaty has also given Eritrea added power to enforce laws
against female genital mutilation. None of the 177 countries that have
already ratified the Convention have reported that parental rights have
diminished as a result of ratification.
U.S. ratification of this important treaty will further progress around
the
world in protecting children. I urge the Administration and the Senate
to
take the next important step of ratifying the Convention on the Rights of
the
Child. The children should not have to wait.
... "You saw God?" "Er, yes...and she's black, sir."
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: All
|Sub: Ad Kuiken
|Date: 18 Feb 96 16:43:00
EID:8759 20528560
We just received word that Leo's cousin, Ad Kuiken, died yesterday. Ad
had Muscular Dystrophy and was originally not expected to live to be a
teenager. He made it to age 39 and was living in an apartment in Amersfoort,
an assisted living situation.
Ad died at his computer, answering mail. His roommate/caretaker sent the
mail packet before calling for help. Way to go, Ad.
... tot ziens, mijn vriend.
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Masochistic Maiden
|Sub: 1 GOD PLUS 1 GO
|Date: 19 Feb 96 06:22:00
EID:ccbd 205332c0
-=> Quoting Masochistic Maiden to Katherine Wintersnight <=-
MM> Hmmmm checking the subject header then reading this post I can almost
MM> force it into a religious discussion.... Dionysus??? or Bachus??
Non sequitur replies to religious asshole who refuses to quote.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: OPINION POLL
|Date: 19 Feb 96 06:25:00
EID:dfc4 20533320
-=> Quoting Steve Quarrella to Judith Bandsma <=-
SQ> Which was made all-the-funnier after a viewing of "Ed Wood." Great
SQ> flick, Martin Landau should have won an Oscar. "Fuck Boris Karloff!"
I want you to know that this is the first post I've seen FROM you for a
week now. Also, when will Valencia be back up? I've been calling for that
same week and keep getting your 'down' message.
... Sure I like kids. Wanta exchange recipes?
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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PATH: 372/911 200 270/101 218/801
|From: Bill Burns
|To: Aaron Boyden
|Sub: Libraries
|Date: 16 Feb 96 17:37:57
EID:4c26 20508ca0
MSGID: 1:280/26 530b8bae
TID: InterEcho 1.16 6E011051
-> >-> So which are the good Christian apologists? I'm a philosopher, a
-> >-> I've studied Plantinga and Swinburne along with several lesser
-> >-> thinkers, to list just the moderns. I hope they weren't the ones
-> >-> you were thinking of.
->
-> > Well, many here would assert that there is no such
-> > thing....
->
-> Indeed, I am one such, though I do not make such a claim without
-> experience.
-> > But to answer your question, I would recommend Francis
-> > Shaeffer, Ravi Zacharias, and even though I have only
-> > read a few smatterings of his work, I have heard that
-> > Peter Kreeft is good. I also have read just a little
-> > of Plantinga, (not enough to really give me any feel
-> > for him). Another couple of names you might check out
-> > are Norman Geisler and Francis Beckwith.
->
-> I've also read only a smattering of Plantinga, but it was enough to
-> not only impress but positively astonish me with his ability to
-> ignore his opponent's central arguments in favor of minutia. A
-> friend of mine, much more sympathetic to the theistic camp, has made
-> an analysis of Plantinga's response to the problem of evil one of
-> his major projects, and he seems to share my view of Plantinga
-> (though, unlike me, he seems unhappy to have been forced view).
-> I'll try and check out these others you mention, though
->
-> --- TosScan(q) 1.00
-> * Origin: They just happened! (1:206/2720)
->
->Aaron,
Sorry that I took so long to reply. I have an unusual schedule and the
times that I have tried to log on to my local access board to see the conference
it has been busy or I have been too tied up with work/school to scan it.
I am glad that you are investigating the material first hand. In addition
to the others that I mentioned to you, you might try to find some books
by F.F. Bruce and Bruce Metzger as well as by philosopher J.P. Moreland.
You may also try looking for titles by Carl F.H. Henry.
Below are refs for two books, one by Metzger, the other by Bruce which may
be of interest to you for a conservative view of the subject matter.
Metzger, Bruce M. "The Text of the New Testament". New York: Oxford University
Press, 1968.
Bruce, F. F. "The New Testament Documents: Are They Reliable?" Downers
Grove, Illinois: Intervarsity Press, 1980.
Ciaoabunga,
Bill
--- InterEcho 1.16
* Origin: Messages Galore BBS!!, 816-241-6807, Kansas City MO (1:280/26)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
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|From: Bill Burns
|To: Aaron Boyden
|Sub: Libraries
|Date: 16 Feb 96 17:42:57
EID:4c26 20508d40
MSGID: 1:280/26 530b8bbf
TID: InterEcho 1.16 6E011051
-> >-> So which are the good Christian apologists? I'm a philosopher, a
-> >-> I've studied Plantinga and Swinburne along with several lesser
-> >-> thinkers, to list just the moderns. I hope they weren't the ones
-> >-> you were thinking of.
->
-> > Well, many here would assert that there is no such
-> > thing....
->
-> Indeed, I am one such, though I do not make such a claim without
-> experience.
-> > But to answer your question, I would recommend Francis
-> > Shaeffer, Ravi Zacharias, and even though I have only
-> > read a few smatterings of his work, I have heard that
-> > Peter Kreeft is good. I also have read just a little
-> > of Plantinga, (not enough to really give me any feel
-> > for him). Another couple of names you might check out
-> > are Norman Geisler and Francis Beckwith.
->
-> I've also read only a smattering of Plantinga, but it was enough to
-> not only impress but positively astonish me with his ability to
-> ignore his opponent's central arguments in favor of minutia. A
-> friend of mine, much more sympathetic to the theistic camp, has made
-> an analysis of Plantinga's response to the problem of evil one of
-> his major projects, and he seems to share my view of Plantinga
-> (though, unlike me, he seems unhappy to have been forced view).
-> I'll try and check out these others you mention, though
->
-> --- TosScan(q) 1.00
-> * Origin: They just happened! (1:206/2720)
->
->Just another thought that I forgot to mention. I will pull out my bit
of Plantinga and re-read it. It is from a philosophy of religion class
that I took a while ago. Maybe you can go into a little more detail on
the objections to his writings. Apparently, you saw some response of his
regarding the problem of evil.
Bill
--- InterEcho 1.16
* Origin: Messages Galore BBS!!, 816-241-6807, Kansas City MO (1:280/26)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
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|From: Richard Morrison
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Christian Jobs
|Date: 16 Feb 96 17:34:00
EID:ac59 20508c40
MSGID: 1:280/26 530b8bd0
TID: InterEcho 1.16 6E011051
Hi Sue,
SA>One can believe in anything one wants here. HOWEVER, it _is_
SA>illegal to discriminate against hiring workers on the basis of
SA>religion (as well as age, sex, race, and several other factors.)
Is it? I think there was a case in California where a Christian org didn't
hire someone on the basis that the person wasn't a practicing Christian.
The org one the lawsuit. There are some orgs that are predominantly Christian
and if you want to work there then it would go to say that you should be
one too. Some include Church child care centers, Day Care centers etc.
I'm not sure how that all works out but I *do* understand it. It's not
that others are not good enough to work in one of those places however
without believing in that same faith (no matter the faith at this point)
they cannot represent the org as it's mission statement provides. As for
the Law in these cases, it seems clear that there is some provision for
variation.
Let me also say however, if I were to have a construction business or something
like that, I don't know that I would advertise it as being Christian. I
kind of think that some would use the symbol in order to try and better
market their company. Also, I would be concerned that people were qualified
for the job based on the skills required... I wouldn't discriminate as
per the religion... unless it was one that believed in sacrificing construction
foremen...<
SA>or Christian-oriented only, as it would discriminate against a
SA>very large chunk of the population for no good reason at all.
SA>Which is as it should be.
I think it was a Gallop pole done around 5 years ago that claimed that
80% of Americans claimed to be Christian... I don't know what it is now
however I realize it must be a lot lower.
SA>Keep in mind that I also disagree with the idea of quotas
SA>favouring anyone on the same bases. [The only quota I _would_
SA>endorse would be giving first shot for jobs to local welfare
SA>recipients.]
Although I would enjoy welfare recipients getting a job I don't believe
it is a 'qualification' for anything other then getting welfare. If they
don't have marketable skills then they need to get some service oriented
job until they can acquire some of those skills. Why should someone who
is more qualified have to go on welfare so a less qualified person can
come off?
Thanks for your thoughts...
in the service for HIS Service
Richard
* CMPQwk 1.42130
-=> It IS as bad as you think and they ARE out to get you. <
--- InterEcho 1.16
* Origin: Messages Galore BBS!!, 816-241-6807, Kansas City MO (1:280/26)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
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|From: Richard Morrison
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: The fire
|Date: 16 Feb 96 17:46:00
EID:c1ac 20508dc0
MSGID: 1:280/26 530b8be1
TID: InterEcho 1.16 6E011051
Don't know how long it'll be before you get this but I'm glad that all
is well considering and you are right, they are all just *things*. It's
a good reminder to me as well. I'm really glad that nobody got hurt and
that things are coming back together for you... ttyl
in the service for HIS Service
Richard
* CMPQwk 1.42130
-=> Originality is the art of concealing your source. <
--- InterEcho 1.16
* Origin: Messages Galore BBS!!, 816-241-6807, Kansas City MO (1:280/26)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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|From: Richard Morrison
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: atheist hypocrisy
|Date: 16 Feb 96 17:49:00
EID:e6d4 20508e20
MSGID: 1:280/26 530b8bf2
TID: InterEcho 1.16 6E011051
MH> Several atheists have taken it upon themselves to berate Christian
MH> using shareware offline readers for more than 30 days without
MH> registering.
MH>
MH> Unless those atheists are hypocrites, they will come down equally
MH> on Frederick Leff.
MH>
MH> FL> ... This copy of GEdit has been unregistered for 37 days.
MH>
MH> Of course, those atheists almost certainly *are* hypocrites.
:)
Doesn't seem surprising does it.
in the service for HIS Service
Richard
* CMPQwk 1.42130
-=> Originality is the art of concealing your source. <
--- InterEcho 1.16
* Origin: Messages Galore BBS!!, 816-241-6807, Kansas City MO (1:280/26)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: 46800
|Sub: Piscatorial paradox...Act
|Date: 17 Feb 96 11:21:48
EID:a9db 20515aa0
MSGID: 1:280/26 530b8c03
TID: InterEcho 1.16 6E011051
NOTE: This message was originally addressed to RICHARD MORRISON
and was forwarded to you by BILL BURNS
-------------------- Marty and Richard were killing time yakking about Piscatorial
paradox...Act:
ML>
ML> RM> < Actually I know that *you*
ML> RM> never type-o
ML>
ML> It's spelled "typo"
RM> Hey Lynda, did you read this meesage from Marty? See why now? Also,
RM> Marty, the next time my spell checker bogs down in *your* quotes can
RM> I go ahead and use the 'replace' button?
(G) Point taken. Now will you PLEASE not attach innuendo about his being
a female because of it -- there are a billion insults you can use. Lay
off that one, okay? (BTW, I gave up on spell checkers for that precise
reason)
Lynda Bustilloz bustillo@ix.netcom.com ... A Paradox May be Paradoctored.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Rob Burcham
|Sub: Religious Experience
|Date: 19 Feb 96 18:37:50
EID:a713 205394a0
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 312909cd
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Rob Burcham mumbled "Religious Experience"
PS> Right around the anniversary of the Roe v. Wade decision, a lot of
PS> churches around here put up little white crosses to symbolize the
PS> abortions that take place in Memphis. I have often been tempted to
PS> make up large placards that say, "Think of how much worse it would
PS> be if the decision had gone the other way" and post them facing said
PS> churches.
RB> You don't think the world would be a better place with
RB> an additional 30 million unwanted babies?
How silly of me not to.
RB> Now, if we could just reverse the outcome on the millions
RB> that God aborted, things would really be grand.
Oh, but it was God's will, you know.
RB> Maybe Pro-life should change it's name to Pro-overpopulation.
Hooray for Dr. Malthus!
... "Bother," said Pooh, nailing Eeyore's tail onto Owl's feathered fanny.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 123/43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801
SEEN-BY: 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Mike Hamilton
|Sub: Many gods
|Date: 19 Feb 96 18:37:50
EID:d13b 205394a0
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 312909ce
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Mike Hamilton mumbled "Many gods"
MH> You requested that I come over to this echo...I've just gotten it
MH> turned on. This place looks like a battleground. I take it from your
MH> post that you place no faith in Christ. I am totally dedicated to Him.
Why are you totally dedicated to Christ?
... Three can keep a secret, if two are dead.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 123/43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801
SEEN-BY: 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Preston Simpson
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Jim Staal
|Date: 19 Feb 96 18:37:50
EID:ac46 205394a0
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 312909cf
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, J.J. Hitt mumbled "Jim Staal"
JH> his remarks during commencement ceremonies at Liberty University
JH> in Virginia, founded by Rev. Jerry Falwell, before a crowd
JH> of 8,000 people.
What's amusing is that my fundy mother *really* wanted me to go to Liberty.
She had them send me lots of stuff in the mail (under the guise that *I*
had requested it, not her), and I got called by their staff twice wanting
to know when I was going to sign up for their fall semester.
Curiously, they didn't call back after I told them I had already picked
a
local college and that I would like very much for them to go the fuck away
and leave me alone.
... Honesty is the best policy, but insanity is a better defense.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 123/43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801
SEEN-BY: 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Preston Simpson
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: The Unofficial Holysmoke Pick Yer Poison List
|Date: 19 Feb 96 18:37:50
EID:0e54 205394a0
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 312909d0
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, J.J. Hitt mumbled "The Unofficial Holysmoke
Pick Yer Poison List"
RS>> Cola Marilyn Burge Freethinker Sutter Homes' White
RS>> Zinfandel Ryan Shaw atheist draught Guinness
PS> You need to fix this--my quoter munged your beautifully
PS> spaced list.
JH> Ahhh... that explains why I can't find a six-pack of Marilyn
JH> anywhere.
But it might be more interesting if you could.
... "Bother," said Pooh, as he called that 'special' KGB number.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 123/43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801
SEEN-BY: 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Preston Simpson
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Religious Experience
|Date: 19 Feb 96 18:37:50
EID:634c 205394a0
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 312909d1
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, J.J. Hitt mumbled "Religious Experience"
JH> Don't forget pro-poverty, pro-illiteracy and pro-abuse.
JH> Amd pro-infant mortality due to inadequate pre- and post-natal care
JH> (it's not a concern of theirs if the child dies outside the womb).
And we wonder why the US infant mortality rate is so high.
... That's not lunch. That's something lunch would eat.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 123/43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801
SEEN-BY: 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Preston Simpson
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Buttpimple Satanist FAILS again.
|Date: 19 Feb 96 18:37:51
EID:8069 205394a0
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 312909d2
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, J.J. Hitt mumbled "Buttpimple Satanist FAILS
again."
A> Anyway, in this instance I employed summoning to damage J.J.
A> (take another) Hitt.
JH> Oh! Oh! I'm damaged!
He says that he employed summoning, J.J. Did you see any little things
with horns and wings appear out of nowhere at you?
A> It is quite possible that His Infernal Majesty was tired of it
A> all, and just struck the first opportunity he saw, to ensure some
A> measure of success.
JH> Maybe he should have called a last minute time out. Or a specialist.
JH> This Infernal Majesty guy just aint got what it takes.
Maybe the guy invoking the Infernal Dude needs to get a life.
... Survival Tip #3: Never invite Cthulhu over for a bite.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 123/43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801
SEEN-BY: 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Dan Oglesby
|Sub: One God not three
|Date: 19 Feb 96 18:37:51
EID:e1f6 205394a0
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 312909d4
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Dan Oglesby mumbled "One God not three"
DO> Hello Karen. I don't mean to butt in here but if I may....
It's an international, non-private echo. We do things this way all the
time.
DO> First of all I have been a born again Christian for 25 years now.
DO> Have went to church all of my 33 years of life.
Many high muckety-mucks in the church don't seem to think that someone
can make that decision at the age of eight. How do you know that you
realized the full implications of what you were doing?
DO> #1. I can NOT prove to you that God exists. Anything dealing with
DO> the supernatural can not be dealt with "scientifically".
This is true. I cannot prove to you that humans are not a race of giant,
flesh-eating purple toads. I can, however, show evidence that they
aren't. Proving things is fine for mathematics, but as far as the real
world goes, it just doesn't happen all that much.
DO> #2. I can NOT prove to you the Bible is the true written word of
DO> God. I can show you answers to the "contradictions", show you great
The first sentence is true for the same reason that the first point was.
DO> wonders of the Bible and its authenticity and the writers involved.
Thank you. Do so, would you please? I'm something of a history student
and frequently find it amusing when people try to substantiate the Bible's
writings with historical evidence.
DO> But for you it won't prove anything. (NOTE: The mormon bible makes
It won't prove anything for anyone. It may provide evidence to an end,
however.
DO> great claims to historicity and there has not been one shred of
DO> evidence to prove it correct. There are many historical references
in
DO> the Bible that have been proven correct.)
Oh? Like that global flood mentioned in Genesis, the one that there isn't
a scrap of geological or historical evidence for?
DO> But if I may I would like to attempt to answer your question above.
DO> It has presented itself as a great paradox for many years. If God
is
DO> so loving, and omnipotent, why didn't he change my circumstances?
A good question.
DO> It would take a great deal on my part to explain this but I will
DO> condense it down in simple terms for brevity.
What the hell, use big words. Most of us here are fairly well-versed in
the
English language.
DO> For God to remove all of the evil in the world, He would have to
DO> remove a large amount of the population of the human race. Zappo!
Error, and a large one at that.
God is omnipotent, isn't he? Could an omnipotent god find a way to eliminate
evil that wouldn't involve getting rid of most of the human race? (hint-
look at the definition of omnipotence: "able to do anything." Anything
covers a lot of ground, Dan. Try not to limit yourself to what you can
imagine.)
DO> Everyone who has done anything wrong in their life, (and I believe
we
DO> all have at one time or another) are now removed. But it doesn't stop
Wait. How does "doing something wrong" coincide with being evil? I did
things wrong in math classes all the time. Did that make me evil?
DO> there. God would then have to remove those left, who are capable of
DO> evil. Therefore, there has now been a total removal of the human
Um. If he's going to get rid of everything that has the potential to do
evil, then he also needs to get rid of the angels (remember Lucifer?)
and himself, since omnipotency includes being able to do evil.
Bummer, huh?
DO> race. Debatably speaking, probably many other species of plants and
DO> animals also.
I disagree entirely. How do plants do evil?
DO> The point is this. If that would have happened, then if we were
DO> heading to a scenario that might have been dangerous for us, God would
DO> be obligated to remove us from that scenario, to the point that we
God's omnipotent. He could get himself out of any situation he wanted to
and not be obligated to do anything. Or is he not omnipotent?
DO> would become total robots with God pushing all of the buttons,,,, and
DO> then we would be claiming how God isn't fair, and we should be allowed
DO> to live our own lives......etc.
Would we? Robots don't complain, Dan.
DO> Ain't much help, but it does make sense when you think about it.
No, it doesn't, but thanks anyway.
... "The DragonKill war is named for what the dragons DID!"
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 123/43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 809 907 234/100 300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801
SEEN-BY: 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 311/111 320/119 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2240/125 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Robert Jackson
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: Anthony Anti-Semite 1/3
|Date: 19 Feb 96 19:38:33
EID:86f3 20539cc0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 31295007
REPLY: 1:207/212 94d3fef3
KD> On (14 Feb 96) Norbert Sykes wrote to Anthony Grigor-Scott...
NS> Incidently, what does being a staunch friend of Britain have to do
NS> with anything?
KD> It's called British Israelism, Norbert, and it gave rise to our
KD> American movement called Christian Identity. It is very important in
KD> that belief system that Israel be England. They go through all sorts
of
KD> fancy verbal gymnastics to prove that Jews aren't the "Israel" of the
KD> Bible, present day Brits are. They include America in this little
KD> fantasy, as well. The belief started up a bit more than a hundred years
KD> ago, and is very millenialist and vaguely racist.
I think the concept of British Isrealism probably dates back
to the 17th century. Cromwell's New Model Army and that in-
sufferable "To Hell or Connaught" ideology was simply loaded
with all sorts of references to England being Israel. Also,
remember the lyrics to William Blake's "Jerusalem": "And did
those feet in ancient times/Walk upon England's pastures green".
The sentiment among Anglos that _they_ are the ones who are
entitled to inherit that supreme racial arrogance developed
by those desert nomads who shlepped through the Negev is almost
amusing. If it isn't a prime example of cargo-cultism, I don't
know what is.
... Did he just say..."splunge"?
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 390/87 1 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Robert Jackson
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: I'M BACK
|Date: 19 Feb 96 19:45:11
EID:4ca1 20539da0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 31295008
REPLY: 1:105/40.666 9903955f
KW> Beside the table. He knocked me into the counter next to the stove,
KW> and turned to walk out of the room.
MB> Not only was he abusive, he was an out-and-out fool! Only somebody
MB> without a brain in his head would deck a person then turn his back
MB> on them!
Or just sure that he had her so dominated that she wouldn't
even dare try. Of course, that just shows you what sort of
small, petty thugs exist in the world that can't feel worth
anything unless they find people they think can be effort-
lessly dominated.
... Creationism: cretinism augmented by an Alpha (a) and an Omega (o)
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 390/87 1 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Robert Jackson
|To: Masochistic Maiden
|Sub: Purple Unicorn Dingleberries
|Date: 19 Feb 96 21:00:25
EID:910a 2053a800
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 31295009
REPLY: 1:352/266 31267CFF
MM> Hi, I'm new here and trying to find a place to fit in. I browse the
MM> echo for subjects of interest, then find that the post has absolutely
MM> noting to do with the subject line. Could it be that hard to shift
MM> the subject header when the conversation drifts? * SPITFIRE v3.51 Le
Sure, we can give it a try.
... LOSE GOD NOW! ASK ME HOW!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 390/87 1 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Robert Jackson
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: 1 god plus 1 god plus
|Date: 19 Feb 96 21:10:08
EID:18b0 2053a940
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:390/87.0 3129500a
REPLY: 1:352/266 31267D00
KW> Check periodically to see if fermentation is finished, this will
KW> takeabout ten days to two weeks. Fermentation is finished when the
KW> mead is no longer bubbling, and has begun to clear. Yes, it will
KW> look absolutely evil there for a while, don't worry, it is supposed
KW> to.
Yeah, but have you ever drunk the stuff while it's still
evil-looking? Worst hangover of my life; a headache that
woke me up at 8am.
... Troubled by kleptomania? Take something for it.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:390/87)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 390/87 1 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 18 Feb 96 19:13:00
EID:d432 205299a0
February 20 Tuesday
FASHION OR FAITH?
Read: 1 Corinthians 1:18-25
God forbid that I should boast except
in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ.
-Galatians 6:14
Os Guinness tells of a Jewish man, imprisoned 15 years by Soviet
authorities for political dissidence, who became a Christian while
in the terrible Gulag. He was sustained throughout that long ordeal
by his faith in the Savior, and by the memory of his 4-year-old son
he hoped to see again one day.
When he was finally released, the man anticipated the reunion with
heart-pounding excitement. How thrilled he was to notice as they
hugged each other that his son was wearing a cross!
After they had talked about many things, he asked his son, now 19
years old, just what the cross meant to him. His heart was crushed
by the answer: "Father, for my generation the cross is just a
fashion statement."
The apostle Paul saw the cross as a symbol of the very core of his
faith. It bore witness to his radically transformed life. He
testified, "God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of
our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me,
and I to the world" (Gal. 6:14).
What about you? Is the cross just a fashion statement? Or does
it inspire you to echo Paul's heartfelt boast in the death and
resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ?
Vernon C. Grounds
In the cross of Christ I glory,
Towering o'er the wrecks of time;
All the light of sacred story
Gathers round its head sublime. -Bowring
MANY WHO WEAR THE CROSS
NEVER THINK OF THE CHRIST OF THE CROSS.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1996 by Radio Bible Class, Grand Rapids,
Michigan. Used by permission.
---
þ 1st 2.00 #1855 þ God's baud rate is ì.
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|From: George Mooth
|To: All
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 17 Feb 96 12:41:00
EID:d432 20516520
February 19 Monday
THE SMART HOUSE
Read: Ecclesiastes 2:1-11
Through wisdom a house is built,
and by understanding it is
established. -Proverbs 24:3
A group in Upper Marlboro, Maryland, is developing a "Smart
House." This computer-equipped home an be programmed to monitor the
baby, make the coffee, start the shower, dim the lights, and turn on
the music. It senses whether people are in a room and adjusts the
heat and lights accordingly. If the vacuum cleaner is running
when the doorbell or telephone rings, the computer automatically
shuts it off.
Imagine owning a dream house like that! You could have a taste of
the life of Solomon, who in his day had anything a person could want
(Eccl. 2:10).
Remember, however, that when Solomon filled his life with
luxuries, he also filled it with emptiness (v.11). When he lived
for riches and comfort, he ran into the same kinds of problems that
put For Sale signs in front of thousands of homes today. The
wealthy who have forgotten the Lord are plagued by divorce,
alcoholism, and depression.
But Solomon finally came to his senses (12:13-14). He came back
to his own principles. He remembered that the fear of the Lord is
the beginning of wisdom, and that a real dream home is any house, no
matter how big or small, that is built on the wisdom of God (Prov.
24:3).
-Martin R. De Haan II
Look away from earth's attractions,
All earth's joys will soon be o'er;
Rest not till thy heart exclaimeth:
"I have Christ! What want I more?" -Walker
BE SMART -
ASK FOR GOD'S WISDOM.
OUR DAILY BREAD, Copyright 1996 by Radio Bible Class, Grand Rapids,
Michigan. Used by permission.
---
þ 1st 2.00 #1855 þ God's baud rate is ì.
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|From: Simon Ewins
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: One God not three
|Date: 18 Feb 96 20:00:18
EID:bdbe 2052a000
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 89264511
PID: FleetStreet 1.14 #115
MSGID: 1:250/666 31278572
CHRS: IBMPC 2
MH> If all the best copies of a book end at one point, and then you find
MH> a much newer copy of the book that has two more pages tacked on to
MH> the end, do you consider those two pages to be part of the original
MH> book?
I certainly would not.
Unfortunately that is exactly the way that the christian community feels
about their bible.
In fact, using your argument one could throw out all but Genesis since the
rest has obviously just been 'tacked on'.
Weak argument, Michael. I expected better from you.
Take care,
Simon
wiz@axaxa.com
http://www.axaxa.com/axaxa
cserve:70543,2540
---
* Origin: A_X_A_X_A :: Where only reality matters :: (1:250/666)
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Asmodeus
|Sub: Re: Al Schroeder
|Date: 15 Feb 96 17:07:51
EID:aae8 204f88e0
\_|_|||||||||| __|_
/ |||| |||
Asmodeus > Lynda Bustilloz : Re: Al Schroeder
As> Teach me how to *AIM* them?
Which word didn't you understand?
As> What does JJ know of throwing curses?
Apparently, a bit more than YOU do, poser.
As> Anyway, in this instance I employed summoning to damage J.J.
Semantic bullshit. You posed. Too bad it didn't work.
As> It only requires utmost concentration, and knowledge to
...ah, the real reason it didn't work... no brain...
As> employ the correct means for the job, and not much 'aiming'. ie.
As> summoning Metztli, for example, for the job would be met with much
As> unsuccess,
Plus Metztli would have eaten you, dirty shorts and all.
Unsuccess? Is that what you get when you drink 7up?
As> unless I incorporated others to aid in the endeavor, in which case
As> Metztli would actually aid in the summons, and in working the
As> summons it would be entirely up to the entities to perform the
As> duty, and as of declaring the summons at end, one is done with it.
I'm surprized that you can summon enough to blow your nose.
As> BTW, if this Al is a friend of JJ please give him my apology.
ROFLMAO...you actually >think< you did something to JJ and
subsequently >think< you caused a backlash onto Al? I'm sorry to
have to use the word think in the same sentence with you, moron.
As> It is very likely he caught some slack of the whip as J.J. got
As> lashed, so to speak.
What did Al's dryer ever do to you, pud? And why didn't it hurt JJ?
As> The devils accomplish their work in many ways, not choosing
As> only one path to accomplishing the will of the summoner.
Firstly, it makes you a pretty piss-poor summoner (of which we all
know) if this was true. Secondly, are these Union devils ? Because, they sure have been laying around on the job...
As> It is likely that they also sought out to damage some of JJ's
As> friends, in order to damage him emotionally, as well as performing
As> that which I had wished done.
It is likely that you'll take the credit for anything that can even
remotely be considered to have fulfilled your stupid claims,
butthead. If JJ's sister's bosses' daughter's chihuahua had had a
particularily violent attack of gas and had acted like a miniature
jet engine one afternoon, you'd take credit for that. Everyone
knows what kind of a fraud you are, boyo...
As> Even when one has great knowledge of them,
This excludes you.
As> and excellent oratory capability,
Judging from your writing skills, this also excludes you.
As> it is still quite possible to not be concise enough as to
As> harm those who are not deserving.
In your case, more than possible . . . positively enevitable . . .
To not be concise enough to harm those not deserving? You wanted
to hurt those NOT deserving? No wonder you missed J. J....
As> I believe this may be the case, as I had invoked Satan a second
As> time in the closing, to help ensure the cooperation of those I
As> summoned, and to add a little strength.
Then why didn't it work, putz? J. J. Hitt is fucking _unscathed_
by your ineptitude.
As> It is quite possible that His Infernal Majesty was tired of it
As> all, and just struck the first opportunity he saw, to ensure some
As> measure of success.
What was Satan doing over at Al's when he should have been hanging
around J. J.? You think J. J. used a cross to scare Satan away? };)
As> It strikes me sad to hear of any family's loss.
Yeah, but what struck you stupid?
... Ugl—k u bagronk sha pushdug Asmodeus-glob b£bhosh skai.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Asmodeus
|Sub: Re: Countdown: ONE DAY LEFT
|Date: 15 Feb 96 17:15:18
EID:f7c2 204f89e0
\_|_|||||||||| __|_
/ |||| |||
Asmodeus > J.J. Hitt : Re: Countdown: ONE DAY LEFT
As> Get a life. I cant believe you waste your time writing to people who
As> almost entirely ignore you.
The 'almost' is the opperative word here. Completely ignoring you
would hurt your feelings.
As> I haven't been in this board's f-echo
As> system for days, and you're still writing me.
Yeah, so? Everyone's having a good time about this, and all at
your expense!
As> as for the curse, you have already witnessed its birth.
Oh yeah, what form did it take? Clarify for us all,
o-ineptitude-incarnate!
As> Soon it will grow, like a plague.
Uh huh, yeah, sure...
As> Your anxiety and apprehension will only make it all the more
As> powerful.
No wonder it isn't working, then. JJ obviously doesn't give a
rat's ass about it at all. How simple: make a satanic curse go
away by ignoring it!
As> All I have done is stirred the hot ashes, you'll add the wood.
Like your head, nimnoe?
As> BTW Have a nice Valentine's Day, heh-heh-heh.
Uh oh, J. J., this may be the true nature of the curse: apparently
Assmotrin has a thing for you! You better get down to the A & P
and get some garlic right away...
};)
... It doesn't take a weatherman to see which way the wind blows. -- Dylan
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Asmodeus
|Sub: Re: in His own image
|Date: 15 Feb 96 17:19:21
EID:188c 204f8a60
\_|_|||||||||| __|_
/ |||| |||
Asmodeus > Scot Bear : Re: in His own image
As> [B** Quoting Scot Bear to Jose Gomez **
S> > He keeps watch over ME and MY FAMILY. Maybe you
S> > should talk to
S> > Him about YOUR life. He's pretty good about taking in new
S> > sons.
S>
S>
S> Oh, SHUT UP! What crap!
S>
S> I, too was a believer and was even planning on going for the priesthood.
S> Your god kept such good care of me that I found myself QUITE ALONE at
the
S> age of 17 due to the fact that both my parents died in a car crash.
S>
S> I hope things are well in YOUR family but *I* had to finish school and
get
a
S> job to support myself because I, a believer, didn't have such
S> godly-protection.
S>
S> Just go away...
S>
As> Heh. I find it humorous how the whitelighters rely so much on their
As> Gods to protect them.
It's about as funny as some insipid goat-worshiper believing he has
ultimate power because he worships an artificial-entity construct.
More, even.
As> If they get in trouble the first thing they seem
As> to do is_pray_and_hope_, and such negative actions leave them with
As> negative results, and when that happens, they dont look at the facts,
As> but blame their ill fate on their lack of faith, or on a punishment
by
As> their Gods.
Whereas when you get in trouble, you engage in negative actions
that leave you with NO results.
As> The term "blind faith" couldn't be more correct.
Coming from the poster-boy for blind faith, this is quite a
compliment...
... My father taught me to work; he didn't teach me to love it. -- Lincoln
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Asmodeus
|Sub: Re: Whooping Crane tastes like Spott
|Date: 15 Feb 96 17:20:58
EID:7972 204f8a80
\_|_|||||||||| __|_
/ |||| |||
Asmodeus > Hector Plasmic : Re: Whooping Crane tastes like Spott
As> [B** Quoting Hector Plasmic to Sue Armstrong **
H> ML>> As long as that hand is gloved in Harp seal fur...
H> SA> Or aborted foetus skin ..
H> Now, Sue, everyone knows that human skin is suitable only for book
H> binding and lampshade making.
As> If refined right, it makes for great soap, also.
Actually, skin is not used in soap. Animal fat is used in soap.
How obtuse.
... Asmodeus at a bar: "What's your sign? I'm a Feces . . ."
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: FLOOD
|Date: 15 Feb 96 17:49:05
EID:0c44 204f8e20
\_|_|||||||||| __|_
/ |||| |||
John Prewett > Judith Bandsma : FLOOD
JP> Kinda like when God sent angles to shepherds to announce
JP> Messiah's birth,.... stead of sending them to the big shots.
God sent 'angles'? How did he know they were the 'right angles' to
send?
... The Macedonian natives didn't believe Paul, so he got stoned.(Lederer)
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Al Schroeder
|Date: 19 Feb 96 12:25:24
EID:2830 20536320
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6263492a
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 3124faa7
A>> What does JJ know of throwing curses?
DW> More than you do, apparently. Should we paint a target on
DW> JJ's forehead to make sure you hit him next time?
Shouldn't we ask Dan A. Post what the significance of a bullseye
on the forehead is first? I wouldn't want anyone to think I'd
had my cash drawer removed.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: 1 god plus 1 god plus
|Date: 19 Feb 96 12:29:02
EID:e810 205363a0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 62635306
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 3124f738
JH>> Now with regard to the cattle problem, the ALIENS are
JH>> using the DNA
DW> [...]
JH>> parts are recovered."
DW> Have you ever wondered what Jose makes of these posts? Do
DW> you think he understands the point?
I haven't seen a post from him in a few days. Last message I saw
was still a text blurb in reference to only Booger knows what.
So, no, he never got the message. Even though it was EXPLICITLY
spelled out to him repeatedly by several parties.
Anyway, the new target is George (Our Daily Drivel) Mooth.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Preston Simpson
|Sub: Re: churches
|Date: 19 Feb 96 17:58:52
EID:40ad 20538f40
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 626651f7
REPLY: 1:123/318.0 3127fda1
PS> I had a rotten St. Valentine's, though things are looking
PS> up.
I got stood up.
Some idiot was supposed to put a curse on me.
Nothing happened.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
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SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Mike Hamilton
|Sub: One God
|Date: 19 Feb 96 18:06:05
EID:75af 205390c0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 626671f9
REPLY: 1:3648/101.5 3125f006
BJ>> ... Is your church Acts 2:38 approved?
MH> I've just turned this echo on and this is one of the first
MH> things I see.
________ +---------------------+
| | | What was the second |
| &@@@@& | | thing you saw? |
l@@@@@@@@@l +---------------------+
l& x x &l /
l( V )l /
jll( \___/ )lll
jlll (VVVVV)|lllj
\\\! jjj| |VVV| |jjjj !///
\@@@__________ __| / V \|______________@@@/
| \ *\ / \ /* /|
| \ \______/ \_______/ / |
|_____\_______ , , __________/___|
{ }
{ }
\ /
| |
|\ -|- /|
|/ \|
( )
{ (| |) }
{ | | }
{ U }
| . /|
{ | } |
|\ \ | |
| \ \| |
| U\* \ |
| U\ \ |
| UUU |
| |
| |
|________|
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Gender
|Date: 19 Feb 96 18:17:33
EID:cce0 20539220
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 62668b32
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 31274501
MM>> Tell me Judith, is it an urban legend that most business
MM>> interest in USA is owned by women?
LB> I'm wondering what they call "business" -- it may well be
LB> that the majority of HOME business are run by women, if you
LB> include such concerns as tupperware and babysitter...but
LB> that isn't the sort of business that brings power, prestige,
LB> or vast wealth.
I'm wishing most of the terms in Mimi's statement were better
qualified. A huge ammount of capital in this nation is held
by seniors, the overwhelming majority of whom are female.
(Seniors also hold the notes on most of the national debt, in
the form of Treasury Notes and Bonds... that's right, we owe
that money to ourselves.)
Just because more than 50 percent of a corporation's minority
stockholders are female doesn't give them any added clout unless
they actually vote their proxies and do so as a block.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: A tale of 2 cities...
|Date: 19 Feb 96 18:25:42
EID:8075 20539320
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6266906c
REPLY: 1:207/212 5064e495
KD> Rabbits DO chew their cud, just not exactly in the same way
KD> as cows. They eat their first morning's droppings. [I
KD> know... yuck, but....] I've had this confirmed by experts in
KD> the things.
How does one go about locating an expert on rabbit droppings?
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
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SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Steve Rose
|Sub: Alien autopsy
|Date: 19 Feb 96 22:07:22
EID:1aba 2053b0e0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 62689f2b
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 118042f4
JJH>> The claim made for the film is that it made in 1947, this is
JJH>> patently false as the microphone seen in the film is a Shure
JJH>> Brothers model that wasn't marketed until 1954.
SR> I have heard at least two other glaring technical-prop
SR> continuity screw-ups, too. Guess the hoaxers didn't do
SR> their homework well enough! :)
Hmmm... I know about the telephone cord, what is the other one?
I think the biggest screw-up prop-wise (though it's not an
anachronism like the microphone or phone cord) is the reflex
hammer in the instrument tray. Dead bodies don't have reflexes.
It's no secret that they don't have reflexes. But that is exactly
the sort of goof you might expect from an over-zealous
Props Department.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
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SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Dawn Kleuser
|Sub: ANGELS....
|Date: 20 Feb 96 02:54:51
EID:51cf 205416c0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 626b3c4c
REPLY: 1:284/120 5201aae8
On Feb 17 20:33 96, Dawn Kleuser of 1:284/120 wrote:
DK> I beleive very strongly in Angels, and would like to hear any
DK> stories anyone has about them. No doubt there is a whole slew
DK> of skeptics out there who would love to attack me on this
DK> subject, but I'm not lookin' for a fight. Just wanna swap Angel
DK> experiences. Please respond if you'd like to share, and I will
DK> also. Anyone having a question for me on the subject, please ask
DK> away - but keep in mind that I will not be drawn into an
DK> argument over the existence of Angels. Thanx!
On Range Road just off Laurier there are angels hanging around in
front of the embassy. This weekend we saw them beating and raping
young boys. People just looked down at their feet and walked by a
little faster; not so fast as to draw attention to themselves
though. Sometimes if you are at a bank machine, the angels will
come up and make you give them money. Last week they made Chris & I
sing "I Walk The Line" by Johnny Cash while they shot at our feet;
of course we danced like minstrels.
This morning they were blowing poisonous gas over Nepean for their
chemical warfare experiments; the chancherous pustules are kind of
a drag but only a crazy weeble would dare complain.
This afternoon the angels shot my neighbor's dog and made his wife
take the dog's place. She had to do everything the dog did. It was
horrible.
Right now the angels have made it very cold and they piled 22cm of
snow on my Volvo (hee hee hee) those jerks. You should've seen
Chris's car, him too! They ran up my amex card in Hull and they
made me hungover this weekend.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Mike Hamilton
|Sub: Many gods
|Date: 20 Feb 96 04:21:48
EID:a2f1 205422a0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 626c049e
REPLY: 1:3648/101.5 3125f4ed
MH> You requested that I come over to this echo...I've just
MH> gotten it turned on. This place looks like a battleground.
MH> I take it from your post that you place no faith in Christ.
MH> I am totally dedicated to Him.
MH> Did you have a comment or a question I can help you with?
What is firmament?
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1
SEEN-BY: 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Kenny is back into his de
|Date: 19 Feb 96 04:52:01
EID:8d74 20532680
MSGID: 1:271/460 31284886
REPLY: 1:157/200 4e14026c
Tuesday February 13 1996 02:04, Kevin D. Mckenzie mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
KDM> KENNETH MCABEE spoke thusly to KELSEY BJARNASON:
KM>> Nope, I am not an atheist. The word fundy is not in the dictionary,
KM>> neither is gawd, someone claiming that I am a fundy instead of a
KM>> Christian is using a made up word, someone claiming that I pray to
KM>> gawd, doesn't know what they are talking about, I pray to the God,
KM>> and someone that claims that I read a babble of fairy-tales, should
KM>> understand that I the Bible, which is the Word of God, not a book of
KM>> fairy-tales.
KDM> I have a simple question, and I want an answer, Ken: When did English
KDM> first become a language?
Kevin,
I've got a simple question for you, which language are we speaking here?
Kenneth Mcabee
--- FMail 0.96â
* Origin: Maximum Overdrive Hampton, Va 804-838-6092 (1:271/460)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
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SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2240/125 2430/1423
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PATH: 271/460 255 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Hello!
|Date: 19 Feb 96 04:53:02
EID:a35b 205326a0
MSGID: 1:271/460 31284e99
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 31213b7c
Wednesday February 14 1996 01:22, David Worrell mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
KM>>>>>> Where's the book that states that the tooth fairy does exist?
DW>>>>> I've got it right here? Don't believe me? Where's your evidence
DW>>>>> that such a book does not exist?
KM>>>> Send me a copy.
DW>>> Nope. If I send you a copy, you'll just deny ever getting it.
DW>>> (see, dipshit? two can play this game.)
KM>> And you don't play very well....
DW> Hector's Law just lopped your head off, li'l fundie.
Nope, still attached, btw, what's a fundie, can't seem to find that word
in my dictionary.
DW>>> That's because you were an evil unbeliever and were not worthy of
DW>>> a visit from the real tooth fairy. Your dad just felt sorry for
DW>>> you.
KM>> Yea right, and grandma got run over by a reindeer.
DW> I see you're unable to come up with any substantive flaws in my analogy,
DW> so you must resort to silly attempts at wisecracks.
You can call me an evel unbeliever all you want. You produce fairy-tales,
I'll produce wisecracks about it. You know that there is no tooth-fairy,
you know the tooth-fairy never claimed to be divine. You want to play a
game and say she's real? That's your problem, since you don't want to discuss
religion but rather fairy-tales, why don't you find an echo that discusses
them. The Bible is not a fairy-tale, and never has been. Just because you
don't believe it, doesn't make it so. If I decide to answer you with silly
attempts at wisecracks, then that is my right, just as it is your right
to believe in the tooth-fairy.
KM>>>> Give it a rest David, I know the difference between God, the
KM>>>> tooth fairy, the Easter Bunny and Santa Clause.
DW>>> There is no difference, Ken. They're all fictional constructs.
KM>> No, you see that's where you wrong, God is not a fictional construct.
DW> I see a claim. Unfortunately, once again I see no evidence. Got any?
Sure, lot's of it, got a Bible?
KM>> Yes, I'll take the risk, we can see how it will all turn out in the
KM>> long run. If I lose my teeth, than I don't have to worry about
KM>> brushing them anymore, or trips to the dentist, or getting popcorn
KM>> stuck in them. But then since I am going to heaven, I won't have to
KM>> worry about that anyway.
DW> Pascal's Wager *again*, li'l fundie. I had hoped your two lonely neurons
DW> would have come up with something a little more sound by now.
Pascal's Wager over and over and over again. You can call it any kind of
wager you want, but tell me, if I'm wrong about the Bible, what do I lose?
Nothing, zip, danada, not a thing, I won't even know about it. If your wrong
what do you lose?
DW>>> Could it be that you're finally getting the point? I also do not
DW>>> need any evidence that God does not exist. The burden of proof
DW>>> lies with the maker of the positive claim. See, you're not so
DW>>> stupid after all. Now get cracking and present some evidence for
DW>>> God, ok?
KM>> No, I don't need any evidence that you do not have such a book,
KM>> because I *know* that Jehovah is the only true God,
DW> You *know* no such thing. If you did know it, you'd be able to offer
some
DW> real evidence to back the claim up.
Why bother to ask someone that believes the Bible to give you evidence other
than the Bible? Where's the logic? You already know that we believe the
Bible, the Bible tells us that if you will not believe the scriptures (which
is what the Bible is, a collection of the scriptures), that you won't believe.
So by that logically you should know that we will not provide you with any
evidence, even if we did have it, because if you will not believe Moses
and the prophets (which is who wrote the scriptures) then you will not believe.
So tell me, where's is the logic is asking us for it?
KM>> and you will
KM>> account to God for your disbelief.
DW> RIght after God accounts to me for his murdering and rampant destruction.
God does NOT have to account to you for anything, you are not greater than
God. Besides, I thought that you didn't believe in God? Why bother wanting
him to account to you for anything. And BTW you WILL account to him for
your disbelief.
DW> Until such time as he chooses to do so, however, fuck God.
He'll remember you said that too. You know the way you talk about him, I
really hope that you are saved, or get saved before you die, I'de hate to
meet him after saying something like that about him, or to him.
DW> You can keep
DW> groveling before him, though, if you must. I realize how hard it is
to
DW> stand on your own feet when you have no backbone.
Shows how little you really know about a Christian, I don't "grovel" at
anyones feet including God's. I will kneel before his feet, but not in fear,
rather in love, he is the one that made it possible for me to live for eternity,
and whether you believe in him or not, he deserves or respect, and our love,
and if he wants me to "grovel" I'll take up doing that too. After all he
is God, and if it was not for him we wouldn't even be here.
KM>> about your tooth fairy, it doesn't matter to me, we will see who is
KM>> right and who is wrong on judgement day.
DW> No, Ken, we won't. There's no such thing as judgment day. We'll both
DW> simply be dead. Deep in your heart, you know this - you're just afraid
of
DW> oblivion, so you grasp at straws.
Why would I be afraid of oblivion? What would be there to be afraid of?
To be honest with you David, I've never been afraid of death, afraid of
pain maybe, but not death. If death is as you describe, I'de have nothing
to fear, oblivion is not something that I would even experience, I won't
even know of the mistake that I made following a God that didn't exist would
I? (Pascal wager one more time.) Deep in my heart David, I know that God
exist, I have my reasons, and they go beyond just the Bible, but if you
won't believe the Bible, you won't believe at all.
KM>>>> An IOU is about something physical, not spiritual,
DW>>> You're making this too easy, Ken. This IOU is a "spiritual" IOU.
DW>>> Please present your evidence that it does not exist.
KM>> I don't have to, All my "spiritual debts" are already paid for.
DW> No, Ken, they're not. I don't accept crucified Messiahs in payment for
DW> debts. You still owe me $10 billion. Pay up.
Like I said, sue me.
KM>> fingers fall off. I will not stop believing in God,
DW> Oh yes you will. Right before you die.
NO, I've already come close to death, was just about dead, and you know
what, never did once stop believing in God. Remember now according to the
"Wager" I won't know whether I'm wrong or not, so I have nothing to lose.
KM>> you cannot provide
KM>> any evidence to me that God does not exist,
DW> No more so than you can provide evidence that Santa Claus does not exist.
He sure does, has visited my home every Christmas since I've been alive.
DW> Did you have a point to make?
Do you?
KM>> see who is right and who is wrong after we die won't we? Of course
if
KM>> I am wrong, I have nothing to worry about cause if Jehovah does not
KM>> exist, then neither does any other god. I will live a life believing
KM>> in something that makes my life better, whether you like it or not.
DW> Pascal's Wager twice in the same post? You are a dipshit.
Sure, I think I've made it three times in this post? Need to hear it again?
Or is your only answer to it is that it's Pascal's Wager? I don't care who's
wager it is, it still stands, I won't know if I'm wrong and you will, hey,
that's four times.
KM>>>> can be provided "evidence" for it or not. Are you so stupid that
KM>>>> you cannot see that a God that can do anything, could do it
KM>>>> without leaving any evidence for you?
DW>>> Why would he do such a thing, Ken? Does he want me to go to hell?
KM>> If he wanted you to go to hell,
DW> BZZZT! Once again, you are not answering the question that was asked
of
DW> you. You claim that God might have hid the evidence for the flood. I
asked
DW> you why he would do such a thing.
Like I said, if he wanted you to go to hell, he would not have sent his
Son to die on the cross so that you would not have to. And in case you've
missed it before, when you get to heaven you ask him why he wanted us to
believe by faith instead of evidence. Or maybe the evidence has not been
hide from us, maybe man just isn't intelligent enough yet to find it.
Kenneth Mcabee
--- FMail 0.96â
* Origin: Maximum Overdrive Hampton, Va 804-838-6092 (1:271/460)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 941 123/1
SEEN-BY: 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586 167/92
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100
SEEN-BY: 234/300 235/203 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 311/111 320/119
SEEN-BY: 340/20 345/12 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Preston Simpson
|Sub: Hello!
|Date: 19 Feb 96 05:19:03
EID:7500 20532a60
MSGID: 1:271/460 31285263
REPLY: 1:123/318.0 3123ebe3
Thursday February 15 1996 21:28, Preston Simpson mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
PS>> And you seriously think that your attempts to get me to prove that
PS>> there is no god would stand up in court? I'm laughing my ass off at
PS>> you even as I type this.
KM>> As was I when I type this..... The only place that we can settle
KM>> whether God exist or not, is in his court. And if he doesn't show up
PS> And if his court doesn't exist...?
Pascal's Wager
KM>>> No it is in no way lying, obscuring the evidence of his existence,
KM>>> maybe, but then the Bible does tell us to believe by Faith, not by
KM>>> evidence.
PS>> It's lying, Ken. It's saying that nothing happened when something did
PS>> indeed happen. Face it. Your god is LYING.
KM>> Nope, he's not. But let's examine this statement of yours, in order
PS> Yes, he is. The situation is no different than if I were to murder someone
PS> and hide all the evidence.
Our laws do not apply to God.
KM>> for you to say that he (my god, the one you don't think exist) lying,
KM>> you have to believe that he is in fact real. Are admitting that God
KM>> does exist Preston?
PS> No. I'm admitting that I believe he exists, which is not at all the
same
PS> thing. Of course, this admission is nothing new--I've never made any
PS> secret about it.
I pray to God that you were really saved once Preston.
PS>> I have said nothing here that I have not said before, Ken. I cannot
PS>> prove that there is no god, just as you cannot prove that you are not
PS>> a murderer, nor can I prove that I am not a rabid alcoholic. All that
PS>> either of us can do is provide evidence attesting to the veracity of
a
PS>> given statement. That by itself is not proof. Do you understand?
KM>> Always have, so why do those in here keep asking us (Christians) for
KM>> proof or evidence of God? Asking us to provide evidence of a being
PS> I keep asking for evidence because of the simple fact that you're making
PS> a claim and I'd like to see you substantiate it.
Why Preston? You don't want to follow God anyway? Or do you? Maybe you really
want to follow him, but don't know how? Come on, you already said that you
do believe he exist, are you still mad at him because he has not "revealed"
himself to you?
KM>> that is more powerful than us, who can do absolutely anything, over
KM>> whom we have no power over at all, is just as stupid. I can take it
PS> Well, no. You're claiming that this invisible superfriend exists. I
don't
PS> see him. Why should I believe that he does? You've been insisting that
PS> he exists and I still do not see any evidence to support your claim.
You already believe that he exists, and if you were truely a Christian once,
then you already know where my evidence comes from.
KM>> one step further, since we (Christians) have been taught by the Bible
KM>> that we believe, that even if one rose from the dead you would not
KM>> believe, where is the logic in asking us to provide you with evidence
KM>> that we already believe you will not believe? (Think it through you'll
KM>> get it)
PS> Look. You can believe what you like, but I'd appreciate not being
PS> insulted by your insistence that what you believe is fact when you can't
PS> substantiate it as such.
My evidence is the Bible, and personnel experience, you want to hear about
the personnel experience too? Will it make any difference to you?
KM>>> Evidence is not needed for eternal life Preston, Faith is.
PS>> Are you finished dispensing evidence that you are so desperate to
PS>> please your god that you'll ignore logic and reality?
KM>> Logic? Let's see whose ignoring logic.
KM>> Non-Christian - Provide us evidence.
KM>> Christian - (reading) Luke 16:31 "And he said unto him, If they hear
KM>> not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though
one
KM>> rose from the dead." (thinking) So no matter what I tell them, if they
KM>> won't believe the scriptures they won't believe. (explains this to
KM>> Non-Christian)
KM>> Non-Christian - bologna! I would too!
PS> No. My first objection would be along the lines of, "The Bible has yet
PS> to be shown to be a reliable and credible source of evidence of anything.
PS> Until you can show that it is indeed such a source, please use another
PS> source."
It's the only source I need, therefore it's the only source that you'll
get from me. BTW when you were trying to be a Christian ever read Luke?
Chapter 16?
KM>> Christian - (rereading Luke 16:31) Sorry, but the Bible which I
KM>> believe and have faith in says you won't.
PS> "But I say you won't, so nyah!" Sheesh. Do you realize how idiotic the
PS> above statement sounds?
I could care less how it sounds Preston, it does say that if you will not
believe in Moses and the prophets you will not believe even if one rose
from the dead. Since I believe it more than you why would I bother to provide
you with anything that I've been told by the Bible ( which I believe is
God's word) you won't believe anyway? WHERE'S THE LOGIC PRESTON?
KM>> The data on which a conclusion or judgement is based
KM>> Something that indicates
KM>> The documentary or verbal statements and material objects admissible
KM>> as testimony in a court of law
KM>> To indicate clearly
KM>> To support by testimony
KM>> Present and plainly visible
KM>> (speaking) the Bible fits the definition of evidence.
PS> Yes, it does. Unfortunately, it does not provide sufficient evidence.
See,
PS> the claim that a god of Judeo-Christian definition exists is a fairly
PS> extraordinary claim. The Bible, unfortunately, is not a fairly
PS> extraordinary piece of evidence supporting such a claim. This is
PS> especially true of the flood debacle, which is claimed by the flood
and
PS> not supported by simple physical evidence.
You admitted that it does fit the definition, notice that the definition
does not say that it has to be a "fairly extraordinary" data, "fairly extraordinary"
indication, "fairly extraordinary" document, "fairly extraordinary" testimony,
"fairly extraordinary" indication, etc etc etc. Thank you for admitting
that the Bible is evidence. Now that you have your evidence, why don't you
go study it for awhile? Maybe praying (you do remember how to pray don't
you?) will help before hand.
KM>> Non-Christian - So what, where's your evindence? not your book of
KM>> fairy-tales.
KM>> Christian - (rereading Luke 16:31, quotes it to non-Christian) Sorry,
KM>> but no matter what I give you or show you, unless you first believe
KM>> the scriptures you will not believe.
PS> "Unless you first believe that there is a god, you can't believe that
PS> there is a god." Do you know what a tautological statement is? You've
PS> just made one, you know.
No, unless you believe Moses and the prophets, you will not believe....
KM>> Now tell me Preston, since I, a Christian, have a Bible which I
KM>> believe, no matter how much you try to call it fairy tales and lies,
KM>> that tells me that you won't believe even if one rose from the dead,
KM>> logically, what do you expect me to give you as evidence, when I've
KM>> been told, by the very book that I beleive, that you won't believe
the
KM>> evidence that I give?
PS> In light of your stubborn refusal to have anything whatsoever to do
with
PS> reality, I hereby withdraw my request for evidence as it is blatantly
PS> obvious that you wouldn't know what satisfactory evidence was if it
bit
PS> you.
All this in light of the fact that you Preston Simpson have admitted that
the Bible is evidence. Amazing that someone who admits that the Bible is
evidence would still request evidence.
PS> Adieu.
God Bless you too Preston.
Kenneth Mcabee
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: Staal also has great Ignorant of history
|Date: 19 Feb 96 05:35:04
EID:18ee 20532c60
MSGID: 1:271/460 312852af
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012 124741f1
Thursday February 15 1996 16:35, John Prewett mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
JP> Hi Ken, just wanted you to know others see Fred Rice's
JP> cheap evasion of your easy to answer question.
JP> Fred, like all Christ haters,..
JP> wants to blame Christ for the deeds of wicked men.
JP> Lord help us all. WBW, John
John,
Thanks for the kind words, it does seem to get kinda lonely in here at times..
BTW what's WBW?
Kenneth Mcabee
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Alan Hess
|Sub: REDACTED STORIES
|Date: 19 Feb 96 05:36:05
EID:6cf3 20532c80
MSGID: 1:271/460 312852fe
Thursday February 15 1996 20:09, Alan Hess mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
AH>>> Do you really believe this mythological fairy tale?
KM>> Nope, do not believe in any mythological fairy tales. I do however,
KM>> believe in the Bible.
AH> So you DO believe in mythological fairy tales.
Alan,
No, none at all, but I do believe in the Bible. Now if your trying to ask
me if I believe that the Bible is a mythological fairy tale, then the answer
to that question is no, I do not, I believe that the Bible is the Word of
God.
Kenneth Mcabee
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Alan Hess
|Sub: HI, Staal
|Date: 19 Feb 96 05:37:06
EID:055f 20532ca0
MSGID: 1:271/460 31285328
Thursday February 15 1996 20:10, Alan Hess mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
KM>>>> How about Isaiah 45:5 "I am the Lord, and there is none else, there
KM>>>> is not God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:"
AH>>> You've just debunked the "Christ is God" school of thought. So
AH>>> much for Christianity!
KM>> Lord is Christ, Lord is God, same being.
AH> Afraid not - according to the myth, God was in heaven while Jesus
AH> (allegedly also God) was on earth. That makes TWO gods, and Isaiah
45:5
AH> says there's only one.
I and my Father are one. That makes ONE God.
Kenneth Mcabee
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: apostate
|Date: 19 Feb 96 05:38:07
EID:88f5 20532cc0
MSGID: 1:271/460 312853cf
REPLY: 1:207/212 6227d164
Thursday February 15 1996 21:02, Karen Davis mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
KM>> What better way to decieve those that might be saved, than to give
KM>> them a false religion?
KD> And God can't send "his" word simultaneously to everywhere there are
KD> people to combat this?
That's why he told us to "Go into the world and preach the Gospel".
KD>> Then why are there still Jews?
KM>> Because they are still his chosen people.
KD> But if the evidence for Christ was sooo convincing, they should have
all
KD> converted. I'll get a list of the prophecies Jesus didn't fulfill that
KD> he should have.
A lot of them were, tell me, how would you feel if the one that you crucified
arose from the grave? Would you face him? What would you have written about
it?
Also while looking up the prophecies that you think that Christ didn't fulfill,
remember that we have not read all that he said and did.
KD>> A perfect God shouldn't need our help.
KM>> Not our help, he told us to do it.
KD> Why? Doesn't do us any good. Think of all the generations that died
KD> without knowing your mythology...
Sorry, I don't spread mythology.
Kenneth Mcabee
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: REDACTED STORIES [1]
|Date: 19 Feb 96 05:41:08
EID:d007 20532d20
MSGID: 1:271/460 3128564e
REPLY: 1:207/212 b0ff268b
Thursday February 15 1996 21:04, Karen Davis mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
KM>> Ever been to hell? Even if for only 3 days?
KD> I spent my teen years in hell, thanks.
You haven't been in hell yet, you may think that you have, but you haven't.
KD> Why would I believe anyone went somewhere nonexistent?
You don't beleive in it, I do. Christ said that it exists, it is also cast
into the lake of fire in Revelation, now how could it be cast into the lake
of fire if it does not exist?
KM>> Good question, ask him when you meet him.
KD> I don't care to meet him.
You won't have any choice.
KM>> That's your believe and your problem, not mine.
KD> It's god's problem to convince me.
No, it's not.
KD>> I don't know how he is. The Bible is clearly a bunch of man made
KM>> fiction.
KM>> That's your interpertation, not mine.
KD> He tells me I am worth less than a man, and need to submit to a man,
and
KD> then expects me to believe it is his word?
Not less, your role is different, but not less.
KD>> God can't handle people not believing in him?
KM>> God can handle them, not thier sin.
KD> But they're not sinning except for not singing his praises. People like
KD> me.
You've never sinned?
KM>> Learing about the Bible is not worshipping.
KD> You need to get together that often to study your mythology?
I don't study any mythology.
KM>> There are females in our church that teach other adults, and I have
KM>> learned a lot from females as well. It says to keep silent in the
KM>> church's not that you could not teach.
KD> The point is, you are given a higher status than women. Right? This
is
KD> anathema to any thinking woman.
No, I have not been given a higher status, never seen anywhere at all in
the Bible where it says I've been given a higher status.
KM>> Who create the world for you to live in? You might have a different
KM>> opinion, but my opinion is God.
KD> I need evidence. If he put me in this jail, such a horrible jail that
it
KD> was a PUNISHMENT for Adam and Eve, then he deserves not a single thanks
KD> for happening to leave the necessities of life around.
The Bible is the evidence, ask Preston...
KD>> grateful for life, Ken. I'm just putting up with it.
KM>> Been there thank you.
KD> Then why are you thanking god for it?
Because I'm not there anymore....
KD>> to have given me the things I need, just like you don't thank a KM>
KD> jailer KD> that he feeds you.
KM>> But, I would.
KD> I don't think it's appropriate.
That doesn't change what I do.
KD>> They sacrificed far more than any god for me.
KM>> Since you apparantly don't know God, how would you know?
KD> I at least have evidence of my parents' sacrifices. Since they decided
KD> to have me, I have limited gratitude towards them, as well, actually.
KM>> Because he is God.
KD> If he's god, then he can give me evidence of his existence and his
KD> reasoning for the illogic behind the Christian belief system before
I
KD> humble myself, thanks.
His Word is his evidence.
KD> He's all powerful and perfect, but he can't send his word to all nations
KD> at the same time to compete with so called false religions. He relies
on
KD> a small group in the middle east to gain power in order to do so.
Really? The small group in the middle east turned thier back on him and
crucified him remember?
KD> I should be grateful and bow down to him for letting me live in a world
KD> that was a punishment to the first 2 people he created.
That was there fault not his.
KD> An all powerful god can't forgive us our sins without a sacrifice?
Forgive yes, but he has said that for sin there must be death, God gave
the first sacrifice and the last.
KD> The person who is wronged is the one who sacrifices for the one doing
KD> the wrong?
God gave us the final sacrifice so that we would not have to, after that
sacrifice all he asks is that we believe.
KM>> Why do I have breath?
KD> Because you're alive.
I'm have breath because I'm alive, who gave me the air?
KM> KM>>> to tell you why God made it that way. All I can say is that that
KM> KM>>> is the way it is, that is what God said has to be done, so that
KM> KM>>> is the way that it must be.
KD>> Sorry, I'm not that gullible.
KM>> Doesn't take being gullible, just sensible.
KD> Sense means accepting only the evidence of your senses, and having some
KD> healthy skepticism about what they tell you. NOT accepting circular
KD> logic from a 2000+ year old mythology.
I must be ok then, I don't accept any 2000+ year old mythology.
Kenneth Mcabee
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: REDACTED STORIES [2]
|Date: 19 Feb 96 05:52:09
EID:d007 20532e80
MSGID: 1:271/460 312856ee
REPLY: 1:207/212 398704fa
Thursday February 15 1996 21:21, Karen Davis mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
KM>> And if she did not sin, she would not have abused you.
KD> OK, let's take this one step at a time - if she hurt me, who needs to
KD> make amends to whom?
I didn't make any statement about her hurting you did I? I said, if she
did not sin, she would not have abused you.
KD>> You've never seen the destructiveness that comes with it, then. Very
KD>> definitely a character flaw. OR a flaw in the relationship.
KM>> Really? What do you know about my life?
KD> What you state. Anyone who doesn't see jealousy as a character flaw
has
KD> never seen its destructive capabilities.
Really? I guess when that guy tried to run me over with his silver nova
because he wanted my girl-friend for his girl-friend, I didn't see the destructive
capabilities.
KM>> Are you trying to say that a lot of marriages end because someone was
KM>> jealous?
KD> Yup.
KM>> Because as you pointed out earlier he is a jealous God, and also, if
KM>> you are worshipping something else, how can you believe in him? And
it
KM>> is through belief that you gain everlastin life.
KD> Why is he so hung up on being believed in?
Ask him when you meet him.
Kenneth Mcabee
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: George Rudzinski
|Sub: Kenny is back into his denial.
|Date: 19 Feb 96 05:54:10
EID:a78d 20532ec0
MSGID: 1:271/460 31285786
REPLY: 1:228/500.0 3124cdd6
Friday February 16 1996 04:21, George Rudzinski mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
GR>> And apparently you aren't one of them. You do recall running into
the
GR>> night when I mentioned Mark 16:15-18.
KM>> If I went running I would not be here, or do you recall me telling
you
KM>> that I will not tempt the Lord?
GR> I'm doing the tempting. All you have to do is the believing in the
Lord
GR> part.
Sorry George, I'll believe the Bible, not you. If I drink the poison to
show you that it will not hurt me, I will be tempting the Lord, not you.
KM>>> There is not babble of fairy-tales, but there is a Bible
KM>>> and it is not a bunch of fairy-tales.
GR>> Apparently you think Mark 16:15-18 is a fairy-tale.
KM>> Never said that either, nor do I consider Christ a fairy-tale when
he
KM>> taught us not to give signs like your asking for.
GR> So Christ's statements in Mark 16:15-18 are a lie? A Biblical lie?
GR> He clearly states believers will be known by signs.
And he clearly showed us not to go around purpose given signs as well. We
will be known by signs, yes, but we cannpt give them on purpose.
KM>>> There is no such thing as a
KM>>> gawd, but there is a God.
GR>> That can't tell you the chemical formula for the pills on my monitor.
KM>> Still trying to tempt God I see.
GR> You forget Mark 16:15-18. I tempt your god, you call god a liar.
You forgot that you shall not tempt the Lord thy God.
Kenneth Mcabee
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: George Rudzinski
|Sub: Hello!
|Date: 19 Feb 96 05:57:11
EID:ab89 20532f20
MSGID: 1:271/460 31285cf9
REPLY: 1:228/500.0 3124cdd7
Friday February 16 1996 04:54, George Rudzinski mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
PS>>> I don't have to show you the note. Prove that I don't have it, as
per
PS>>> your request that I prove that there isn't a God.
KM>>> Like I said Preston, I'll see you in court when you try to claim that
KM>>> money you think I owe you.
GR>> And we'll see you in court with your evidence for your god. You can't
GR>> have it both ways. If we have to prove a negative to show you there
GR>> is no god, you must prove a negative and show you don't owe a great
GR>> many people money.
KM>> I'll see you in HIS court, then you won't need the evidence, but by
KM>> then it might be too late.
GR> Go scare children with this brainless shit. It doesn't scare me little
GR> man.
Not trying to scare you George, never tried to scare anyone around here,
or while I out on the street preaching the gospel. (BTW your opinion of
me, don't matter much either).
GR>> Yet you fail to pay up because you know very well that proving a
GR>> negative is impossible, and you demand evidence.
KM>> I demand evidence? No, I did not demand anything.
GR> You demanded the note stupid, read what you wrote above.
I did not demand, I told Preston to either send me a copy or sue me. BTW
either way I get the evidence. BTW I've never claimed that there wasn't
any evidence of God either, matter of fact, have claimed many times that
the Bible is the evidence, and when scriptures was provided, so was evidence.
GR> I have something
KM>> that fits the definition of evidence.
GR> A dead brain. I won't argue with that.
GR> Of course once I tell you what
KM>> it is, you'll call it a babble of fairy-tales.
GR> Unless you have a live Jesus in your pocket, I can only call it as I
see
GR> it.
I have a live Jesus in my heart, that's better than my pocket!
GR>> So do we.
KM>> Read a Bible.
PS>>>> What it boils down to is this: In this universe, asking someone to
PS>>>> prove a negative (see claims like "Where's your evidence that a God
PS>>>> who can do ANYTHING doesn't exist?") is foolish, idiotic, and bound
PS>>>> to be loaded with other qualifiers that speak poorly of the
PS>>>> intelligence of the person who made the request. In short, Ken,
PS>>>> nobody with a grain of common sense asks anyone to show evidence
PS>>>> that any attribute of any hypothetical god or the hypothetical god
PS>>>> itself *doesn't* exist. Instead, we ask for evidence that the god
or
PS>>>> attribute *does* exist, which is generally a lot easier to do than
PS>>>> showing that it *doesn't*.
KM>>>> You can call it whatever you want. The point is this, if God can
do
KM>>>> anything, which includes stuff like making floods disappear without
KM>>>> a
PS>>> Making them disappear without a trace? Isn't that lying? Or at the
PS>>> very least, obscuring the evidence of his existence?
KM>>> No it is in no way lying, obscuring the evidence of his existence,
KM>>> maybe, but then the Bible does tell us to believe by Faith, not by
KM>>> evidence.
GR>> Then why do you have a Bible? Without the Bible as evidence who knows
GR>> what god you would be worshipping.
KM>> Without the Bible, I would probably end up in hell.
GR>> And your response to Mark 16:15-18 already shows you have no faith
in
GR>> even that bit of evidence.
KM>> No, my response to YOU shows that I do have faith in my Lord, and
KM>> follow his example, not to give ones like the pharisee, and satan
KM>> signs, nor to tempt my Lord thy God.
GR>> You may not believe this but you are almost well. All us ex-fundies
GR>> fought the hardest as the lest shreads of our illness were torn from
GR>> us. At the time we also had to resort to your tactics, turning reality
GR>> on and off to make sense of reality.
KM>> I have not had to turn reality off and on, your simple tackics will
KM>> not turn me from my God.
GR> That can't quite seem to get you to turn to your faith in your god either.
GR> Mark 16:15-18. I'll pour.
Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God.
GR> If you are once saved and you claim now not
KM>> believe, it is you that is miserbly because deep down, you know that
KM>> God loves, you and what you are doing is wrong.
GR> I'm not miserable. I'm having fun driving you over the edge lemming.
Your not driving me anywhere, matter of fact this echo has helped me a great
deal. But not in NOT believing in God, but rather TO believe in God.
GR> And it is you that
KM>> will answer for your deception, not I.
GR> What deception? I don't claim to believe in the Bible and then run
from
GR> Mark 16:15-18 when my faith runs out. I know I can't drink poison and
GR> live and there is no god to prevent me from dying because I'm a believer.
GR> You claim to be a believer and run from the words of your document of
GR> faith.
Oh, and I guess "Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God" is running from
my faith? Seems more like following my Savior did, then running. But then
you've only read one part of the Bible haven't you?
GR>> You just allowed your god to lie above by obscurring evidence. Either
GR>> god is lying or the book is lying. You chose to make god the liar
GR>> rather than the book.
KM>> Nope, I choose no such thing, God did not leave any evidence for you
KM>> to find of the flood, but he did tell you about it, therefore he did
KM>> not conceal anything.
GR> Shithead. God didn't tell me anything. God doesn't talk to me. The
GR> Bible is written by man, not got.
got? what got? BTW there lies the first problem, you won't believe in Moses
and the prophets, therefore you will not believe.
GR>> Shows just what you have faith in, and it isn't some god.
KM>> Wrong, I have faith in God.
GR> Mark 16:15-18, I'll pour. Liar!
Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God.
GR> Where you may have left him for your own
KM>> pleasure, I will not,
GR> Too bad. I've been married to a lovely woman for 19 years and have
raised
GR> a great son for the past 17. A pure trip through pleasureville.
I've been married for 15 years, have a daughter 13, a son 12 and a daughter
2, and yes it has been a pleasure raising them, and loving my wife.
GR> you see I have more than just the Bible for my
KM>> proof or evidence of God.
GR> You keep claiming that. Why can't you show it?
GR> But that which I have to increase my faith
KM>> would only be laughable to you, why? Because, unless you believe Moses
KM>> and the prophets you will not believe.
GR> Circular argument.
Who cares? Still fits.
KM>> Inspired by God.
GR> Mark 16:15-18. I'll pour. Care to belly your mortal ass to the bar
and
GR> bet on that?
Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God.
GR>> Now if you honestly believed that god created the
GR>> universe, why do you deny the only unequivical evidence he has left
GR>> us of the event, i.e. the creation itself? Why do you refuse to
GR>> believe god's universe if you say you have faith in god?
KM>> I don't refuse God, you do.
GR> How so? I believe the universe. You believe a book.
I believe in God.
KM>>>> trace. You cannot prove to me that he does not exist, because first
PS>>> Of course I can't, largely for the same reasons that I can't prove
PS>>> that the Sun won't turn into a bran muffin next Tuesday.
KM>>> Thank you for being truthful.
GR>> Sun's don't turn into bran muffins and you still are short one god.
KM>> Let me see..... Nope, God's still here.
GR> Mark 16:15-18. I'll bet he isn't liar.
Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God.
KM>>>> off I believe he can do anything. Telling me for instance that there
PS>>> How nice for you. Belief isn't equal to evidence, Ken. Do you
PS>>> understand this proposition?
KM>>> Evidence is not needed for eternal life Preston, Faith is.
GR>> And you can't show one dead person enjoying this eternal life.
KM>> I can show you at least one person that according to all the doctors
KM>> was dead. And that person lives.... Come to think if it, wasn't there
KM>> and ex-athiest on TV the other day? Claim he or she visisted hell?
KM>> Have to admit, didn't see it, but am looking for a repeat of that
KM>> show.
GR> With a brain like a toilet one does need shit to make it work.
What's that got to do with the TV show I mentioned?
KM>>> I've never argued you to surrender your mind. Expecting God to show
KM>>> himself to you is no different than the Pharisee's asking Christ for
KM>>> a sign. Remember what he told them? "An evil and adulterous
KM>>> nation seeketh after a sign". Anytime a sign was asked of him, he
KM>>> said he would not give it. Not to the Pharisee's, not to Satan, so
KM>>> why would you expect him to show you a sign Preston?
GR>> But according to your religion he did give them a sign, he rose from
GR>> the dead. He healed the sick and turned water into wine. All signs,
GR>> or at least that is what we are told.
KM>> But he did not give signs when he was demanded it by folks to prove
he
KM>> was the Son of God.
GR> And shit for brains I'm not asking God for a sign, I'm asking you for
a
GR> sign as a believer per Mark 16:15-18. You are the one who's ass is
on the
GR> line. You are making the claims, I'm asking you to back them up per
the
GR> Bible.
Sorry, Christ taught us not to give one like that, or did you fail to read
the whole Bible? How about the part where he said "Thou shall not tempt
the Lord they God?"
GR> People like the pharisee's, satan, and you.
GR>> Just like faith healers claims of today, under scrutiny they can't
do
GR>> it. Your god is toothless under the cold scrutiny of science.
KM>> I don't believe in the faith healers either.
GR>> And again Mark 16:15-18. If you drink I'll know exactly when to
GR>> expect it and your god won't be able to do a thing about it.
KM>> And again Luke 16:31
GR> Unfortunately shit for brains, you aren't tempting god, you are merely
GR> showing signs that believers are supposed to be able to show.
Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God.
GR> I guess this is an admission that you really aren't a believer.
Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God.
KM>>>> Faith says that God can do anything, and that he could even create
a
PS>>> Faith says that there's an invisible pink hippo sitting in the room
PS>>> with you right now. So what?
KM>>> Sorry, faith has nothing to do with invisible pink hippo's, you can
KM>>> try and pervert faith all you want Preston, it will do no good with
KM>>> me.
GR>> It is not a perversion of faith. It is what faith is.
KM>> How would you know? You claim you don't have any.
GR> Are you terminally stupid? I have clearly stated that I had faith at
one
GR> time.
Had faith at one time, do you claim to have it now? Did I ask you if you
use to have it? I asked how would you know? You claim you don't have any?
Tell me what happened to your faith?
GR>> Then the only reason you came here is for us to cure you.
KM>> Nope, so that you will be made accountable.
GR> So you are god's secretary? Is your omnipotent god that much of a
puke
GR> that he needs you to keep tabs on me?
Nope, we are told to go and preach the Gospel, everyone needs to hear the
Word of God. You refuse to believe, but you don't have a chance if someone
does tell yo do you?
KM>>> Yes, and faith says that you can move a mountian if you have enough
KM>>> of it.
GR>> Re-read your Bible fundie. It says, "Even if your faith is smaller
GR>> than a mustard seed...".
KM>> Even if you faith is as that of a mustard seed... not smaller.
GR>> So I guess you have much less faith than that.
KM>> So then you agree that faith can be measured.. Good.
GR> And I'm measuring it fundie. Mark 16:15-18. Your faith won't even
allow
GR> you to believe the Bible, let alone move mountains.
YOU can't measure anything, because you cannot see my faith, only God can.
BTW "Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God."
KM>>>> that the scriptures that the Bible came from are all written about
KM>>>> this same God. So if you ask me for evidence I will show you the
PS>>> That's a screwed-up god you worship, then. A guy who's all fire and
PS>>> brimstone for half the book, and all bunnies and light with an
PS>>> ominous side for the other half?
GR>> Preston! God got a shot of leg from Mary at the half-way point. It
GR>> mellowed him out.
KM>>> All fire and brimstone for half? Have you read the same book that
I
KM>>> have?
GR> Have you? Christ died for all man's sins. No conditions.
One condition. "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting
life." There's the condition, you have to believe it.
GR>> He was whacking everyone right and left that weren't his people and
GR>> didn't treat his people much better.
KM>> Not when they turned his back on them, what's that say about you?
GR> It says your god doesn't exist. I've got more than a few of you religious
GR> assholes praying for me to die.
Sorry to disappoint you George, but I've never prayed that you would die,
but rather that you would live.
KM>>> Like I said Preston, it doesn't take evidence, it takes faith.
GR>> So why does your religion need a Bible if it takes faith? And as your
GR>> fear of Mark has shown, you don't have much in the faith department.
KM>> Don't need "much", btw thanks for being truthful and admitting that
I
KM>> have faith.
GR> Shithead, you don't have faith. You needed the Bible to find god.
You
GR> needed evidence, as poor as it is.
You apparantly don't know much about faith, otherwise you would not ask
a Christian to tempt God. What's the matter, can't stand to see someone
still happy with serving the Lord?
GR>> If you
KM>>> were a Christian and read your Bible you would know that already.
GR>> You are lying here. You said it takes faith. You didn't say anything
GR>> about written records be they fact or fiction.
KM>> Oh, forgetting my quotes of Luke 16:31, maybe I should start that
KM>> again?
GR> Stick your quotes up your ass. You didn't get them from faith, you
got
GR> them from a document you consider evidence.
OK, let's go to that document of evidence. Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh
by hearing and hearing by the word of God." Sorry George, but the document
disagrees with you.
GR>> You have the Night Before Christmas yet you do not believe in Santa,
GR>> and I can show you a room full of them.
KM>> Actually I do believe in Santa, I've played the role many times for
my
KM>> kids.
GR> I don't doubt lying to children is your style.
Ask my kids if I ever lied to them about Santa. When they asked me about
who Santa was, I told them, and then they got to be Santa.
GR>> Because they weren't all the way dead yet stupid. Note the lack of
GR>> people breaking out of cemetaries after a year and telling us about
GR>> Jesus. The number to date in all of history is exactly zero.
KM>> So your better educated than the Doctors to say whether someone is
KM>> dead yet or not..
GR> No shithead, but I know that people buried for a fucking year don't
get up
GR> and walk out of grave yards. And I'll gaurantee that no doctor will
GR> disagree with me.
GR> And you are still short one live saviour from 2000 years ago.
No George apparantly your short one saviour, not me.
Kenneth Mcabee
--- FMail 0.96â
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Elliott Finesse
|Sub: Fillibuster.
|Date: 19 Feb 96 14:20:00
EID:7094 20537280
MSGID: 1:271/460 3128cd8e
REPLY: 1:215/130 000675d4
Sunday February 18 1996 04:54, Elliott Finesse mumbled to Kenneth McAbee:
>> MG> Why is
>> MG> it that your god cannot make us all perfect without the chance yo
>> MG> giving beings free will.
>> Good question, I'll ask him that when I met, although I believe that
I
>> know the answer when I get there. Ask me this, if he did not give us
o
>> free will, how could we choose him? Would you have rather been made wi
>> choice? Without ever having a free will of your own?
EF> Supposedly, God knew in advance who would obey and who wouldn't before
he
EF> even created humans. He could have easily refrained from creating those
he
EF> knew would be bound for hell without sacrificing "free will" one iota.
So you would have rather not lived at all?
Kenneth Mcabee
--- FMail 0.96â
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Elliott Finesse
|Sub: Hello!
|Date: 19 Feb 96 14:20:01
EID:87c5 20537280
MSGID: 1:271/460 3128d063
REPLY: 1:215/130 000675ec
Sunday February 18 1996 04:54, Elliott Finesse mumbled to Kenneth McAbee:
>> KM>>> Where's your evidence that a God who can ANYTHING doesn't exist
EF> You are trying to shift the burden of proof, Kenneth. If the existence
of
EF> God was obvious then there would be no need to stress faith. It is a
EF> claim: "a God who can do ANYTHING exists". Not being able to disprove
this
EF> _claim_ is no more evidence it is true than not being able to disprove
the
EF> existence of blue monkeys on Pluto.
That's one of the points I've been trying to make. I might not be able to
prove to you that God exist (because you don't except the Bible as evidence)
but it cannot be proven to me that he does not exist. If it cannot be proven
to me that he does not exist, I have no reason to stop believing in him,
and yes, I understand that you, without evidence, have no reason to start
believing in him. I also believe that unless you believe the Bible, that
you cannot believe at all, because belief in God starts with the scriptures.
Once you start believing the scriptures, then you might find other evidence
as well, or be given the sign that some here have been looking for. But
then, you'all don't believe in dreams and visions either, or do you?
Kenneth Mcabee
--- FMail 0.96â
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|From: Jesse Jones
|To: Ryan Shaw
|Sub: God's Word
|Date: 19 Feb 96 06:09:19
EID:b4e7 20533120
PID: OLMS 2.53p [ERSBN55C]
MSGID: 1:135/71.0 14171d8d
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting RYAN SHAW to JESSE JONES on 02-14-96
RS>Jesse Jones wrote in a message to Alan Hess:
RS> JJ> As frustrating as I know the idiocy evidenced in BJ's
RS> JJ> post is, to suggest that King James deliberately mistranscribed
RS> JJ> or omitted anything is ridiculous. Got *anything* to back that
RS> JJ> up?
RS>It's a basic fact outlined in most Western Civilization courses.
I have many texts, having majored in history. Care to give me
one cite?
RS>Have you taken one of those lately?
Not since 1971, actually. I have, however, read and studied
extensively since then about the Bible, from all perspectives, and I
have never encountered any charge of deliberate error in the KJV.
þ CMPQwk 1.42-R2 1319
Messiah complex? Me? Well, let me just sayeth unto you...
--- OLMS 2.53p+ [ERSBN55C]
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|From: Jesse Jones
|To: Alan Hess
|Sub: New Covenant
|Date: 19 Feb 96 06:09:21
EID:3a90 20533120
PID: OLMS 2.53p [ERSBN55C]
MSGID: 1:135/71.0 14171d8e
TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting ALAN HESS to JOHN PREWETT on 02-15-96
AH>So why don't Christians keep kosher, among other things? Because
AH>they wrote a new book, and kept the parts they liked of the old one.
Because of the result of the Council of Jerusalem:
Acts 15:22-29 "Then the apostles and the elders, with the
consent of the whole church, decided to choose men from among their
members and to send them to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas. They sent
Judas called Barsabbas, and Silas, leaders among the brothers, {23} with
the following letter: "The brothers, both the apostles and the elders,
to the believers of Gentile origin in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia,
greetings. {24} Since we have heard that certain persons who have gone
out from us, though with no instructions from us, have said things to
disturb you and have unsettled your minds, {25} we have decided
unanimously to choose representatives and send them to you, along with
our beloved Barnabas and Paul, {26} who have risked their lives for the
sake of our Lord Jesus Christ. {27} We have therefore sent Judas and
Silas, who themselves will tell you the same things by word of mouth.
{28} For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to impose on
you no further burden than these essentials: {29} that you abstain from
what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is
strangled and from fornication. If you keep yourselves from these, you
will do well. Farewell.""
þ CMPQwk 1.42-R2 1319
Silence is evidence of a superb command of the language.
--- OLMS 2.53p+ [ERSBN55C]
* Origin: Sox! (305) 821-3317 Live from Hialeah_FL_USA (1:135/71)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Terry Liberty-parker
|Sub: US Bans AbortionSpeak on
|Date: 19 Feb 96 10:15:00
EID:5905 205351e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org bf467bfb
Terry, dear, if you are trying to be bitchy, you've missed the boat.
This is how it's done:
TL>By the way, what do your comments add to the alleged topic of this echo;
or
TL>did you think you were posting to the 'net butt buddies gossip' echo?
Ohh, sounds like David got you in the quick. Why do you just assume
that anytime a group of men get together, it is for homoerotic reasons?
TL> dw>> you actually posted something useful. Amazing.
TL> dw>> See what you can do if you put your mind to it?
TL>I have every confidence that you and your LOSER buddies will find a way
to
TL>discount it's value. That's why you're losers.
TL> FR> It's a sad state of affairs when even right-wing extremist lunatics
TL> FR> find something in common with rational people.
TL>Oh isn't Fred a sweetie? After many exchanges that made it obvious that
TL>libertarians support freedom in common with lefties and righteis he still
TL>manages to obsess on his very own bias. Good ole steadfast Fred, reality
will
TL>NOT disuade his prejudice.
TL> DW> It is almost enough to make me wonder if the CDA us a *good*
TL> DW> thing. If it pissed Parker off, it can't be all bad.
TL>Well there it is. You found a way to discount info that YOU had deemed
TL>useful. Of course LOSERS will support infringing their kids birthright
of
TL>freedom if it MIGHT undermine the target of their irrational prejudice.
TL>Losers don't create value and if something of value comes their way they
find
TL>a way to discount it and jack each other off with it. That's why they're
TL>LOSERS.
Terry, dearheart, I am more than willing to concede that you know more
about being a looser then the whole rest of the echo put together. It's
a shame that's the only subject you've managed to get down pat. Anyway,
if you insist on flouncing and squealing this way, you are going to find
yourself dealing with folks thinking that you want to go off into the
hills to caress your buddy's 'guns'. If you are going to insist on
acting this way you really need to ask someone to give you some help.
In spite of the pretentious hyphenated name, you are not classy enough
to make a decent faggot.
See how it's done? Go home and practise until you sound like something
more than a yapping pup.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * Militia is English for Hamas....
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 7Gig, 6 Nodes (1:381/123)
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Brian Kolacy
|Sub: Re: One God not three
|Date: 19 Feb 96 10:15:00
EID:c4fc 205351e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org a175282f
BK>(On 02-13-96 Brad Jackson replied to Brian Kolacy)
BK>BJ>Hi Brian.
BK>BJ> You are mistaken Brian if you think there are any more Gods
BK>BJ>then Jesus.
BK>BJ>Rev 1:8 (KJV)
BK>BJ>I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord,
BK>BJ>which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.
BK>Well, if your god was A to Z, I might just worship him...BTW, when did
BK>Jesus learn Greek?
When he found Satan a bit too tempting.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * -I am not young enough to know everything-
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Dan Oglesby
|Sub: One God not three
|Date: 19 Feb 96 10:15:00
EID:2180 205351e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org f5715754
DO>The point is this. If that would have happened, then if we were heading
DO>to a scenario that might have been dangerous for us, God would be
DO>obligated to remove us from that scenario, to the point that we would
DO>become total robots with God pushing all of the buttons,,,, and then
we
DO>would be claiming how God isn't fair, and we should be allowed to live
DO>our own lives......etc.
DO>Ain't much help, but it does make sense when you think about it.
That's not much help to the suffering children, Dan. You can't expect a
tortured baby to understand that his rape is tolerable because of
God's principals. I can't render the title of 'a Loving God' to a deity
who would sacrifice babies to satisfy his principles.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * ...A cat is, above all things, a dramatist.
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Aaron Boyden
|Sub: information
|Date: 19 Feb 96 10:15:00
EID:0b33 205351e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org aa64d40b
AB> > Children, should not be allowed to watch porn. It is
AB> > the responsibility of the parents to see to this if
AB> > they feel the need is there. I am in favor of making
AB> > electronic devices available but not mandatory in
AB> > these cases.
AB>Out of curiosity, why shouldn't children be allowed to watch porn? Agreed
AB>that the parents should probably be able to control this if they wish,
but you
AB>seem to imply that they have the duty, not only the right, to police
their
AB>children in this respect. Why, exactly? I seem to recall having found
a bit
AB>of porn in my youth, through various lucky chances, and I haven't noticed
it
AB>having done me any particular harm.
My guess, and this is just a guess, is that a young child can not tell
the difference between good sex and bad violence. Baby loves Mommy, and
Baby loves Daddy, and Baby sees Daddy 'hurting' Mommy. At what point
(or level of sophistication) this is no longer applicable, I don't know.
And Why are nude photos automatically considered 'dirty? What do those
Christians think they are living in, anyway.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * ...A Pagan family is a loving family.
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: I'M BACK
|Date: 19 Feb 96 10:15:00
EID:828b 205351e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org ccbc7083
MB>On (16 Feb 96) Katherine Wintersnight wrote to Lynda Bustilloz...
MB>LB> KW> Fine, roll up your sleeves and get over to the sink. I'm in
the mood
MB>LB> KW> to do something french. A real buttercream, perhaps? And if
I have
MB>toLB> KW> cook without shoes, you can stand there and wash dishes barefooted.
MB> KW> LB>Psst! Katherine! Just for clarification, WHERE was that guy
MB> KW> standing when LB>you brained him with the frying pan?!
MB> KW> Beside the table. He knocked me into the counter next to the stove,
MB> KW> and turned to walk out of the room.
MB>Not only was he abusive, he was an out-and-out fool! Only somebody
MB>without a brain in his head would deck a person then turn his back
MB>on them!
It was the simple fact that he held me in such contempt that he thought
it safe to turn his back that got him swatted. I got so angry I forgot
to be afraid, and then I was sort of numb. I don't remember making any
sort of deliberate decision pick up the spider.
But if he did have a brain, I rattled it good.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * ...An elegant weapon, from a more civilized age.--OWK
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: HS WEB PAGE
|Date: 19 Feb 96 10:15:00
EID:498a 205351e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 1f6b8860
KD>On (16 Feb 96) Katherine Wintersnight wrote to Preston Simpson...
KD> KW> Call your local bloodbank, and ask. Taking large doses of tylenol
or
KD> KW> motrin can do the same thing, by the way. Both drugs can cause
liver
KD> KW> damage with the resultant enzymes in the blood. I just spent a
year
KD> KW> 'out' because of this (I take a hefty amount of motrin for arthritis).
KD>I've tested too high for certain liver enzymes a couple of times over
a
KD>couple of years myself. Don't know why, in my case.
Motrin can cause liver damage in large doses. In my case, that was
what was behind the hike in liver enzymes. Did your doctor have
anything to tell you?
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * ...And God smote Egypt with a plague of zucchini.
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Southern Men
|Date: 19 Feb 96 10:15:00
EID:7cd0 205351e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org b4940778
DC>-> On 02-16-96 04:01, Katherine Wintersnight got back to David Worrell
DC> DW> DW>> 'Zactly. You don't realize that's a compliment, do you? ;)
DC> DW> KW> You're *so* smart .
DC> DW>Stop that. Yer gonna get me excited again.... ;)
DC> KW> Now, that doesn't seem hard to do.
DC>Since when did David mention he had an impotence problem? ;)
No, he has a nonpokingitence problem.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * ...And the Dead shall rise up and quest for BRAINS!
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0093
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|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: RE: REDACTED STORIES
|Date: 19 Feb 96 10:15:00
EID:4099 205351e0
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org c6dbf466
DC>-> On 02-16-96 04:01, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Dan Ceppa
DC>Sort like my jacket pocket. Amazing the stuff that I find in there
DC>that I forgot I had...
Oh, yes, coat pockets are time warps. I'll never forget the October I
found $300 dollars in my heavy jacket. I had stuffed the money in a
pocket while xmas shopping, and not worn the jacket the rest of the
winter. That was a fun surprise, especially as I had thought the money
had been stolen out of my purse at the mall.
DC> KW> Typing can be rough, esp. on my wrists. If my hands get to bad,
I DC> KW> make bread. Working the warm dough will usually limber them
back up.
DC>Making bread is always fun. That, and it smells and tastes so
DC>much better then store bought.
Bear will do just about anything I ask of him for salt raising bread (he
doesn't get it often, because the weather has to be just right). The
trick in this household is to get people to leave it alone long enough
to cool. There is nothing better then hot from the oven whole wheat
dripping with butter and honey. Or blueberry preserves. Sometimes in
the summer I'll make real french bread (a hassle because I have to get
someone to manhandle the big stone into the oven) and a pate'. That and
fresh fruit salad and a long drive up to White Sands makes for a lovely
day. :) If you haven't tried making one, and if you have a heavy duty
food processer, do try making your own pate'. It's worth every minute.
DC> KW> keep them flexible. Objectively, though, I do not have pretty,
dainty
DC> KW> little hands.
DC>Sounds like my cousin's. Hers look like they belong to a boxer!
Well, I don't know about a boxer's, but they are getting gnarled fast.
And as I have short square hands anyway... Ah, well, at least I'm not
loosing dexterity. Yet.
DC> DC> KW> keep a couple of cheap Parkers in there to loan). Things disappear
DC> DC>Ask my daughter... She can find anything!
DC> KW> Or mine! She can lose anything.
DC>Seems like I won't trade my for yours. You can borrow mine to
DC>help you find your pen, though.
How old is your daughter? Mine is three and a half, and in that
terribly 'intense' stage.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * ...Christian: a throughly unhappy man who sees only evil
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0093
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|From: Steve Rose
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Hit list
|Date: 20 Feb 96 01:25:33
EID:a62a 20540b20
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 118042fe
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 3124ff3d
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
David Worrell wrote in a message to Jim Staal:
JS> It hasn't worked for you. Why do you recommend it to someone else?
DW> Hmmm... seems I recall a message from you wherein you stated you
DW> were leaving. Was this another of the world-famous Staal lies?
Much like Jimmy's life in general.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: * Above Board * (1:109/601)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: All
|Sub: Prime Network
|Date: 19 Feb 96 15:18:52
EID:9003 20537a40
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 683d483c
PreRapture International Message Exchange
The PRIME Network (Telnet to prime.org)
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and when he got to the above line on Steve's Home Page, his
response was "he's right, because the Prime Network is where
the sun don't shine."
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Please spread this info around. Thanks!!
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* The only true Christian Conference in FidoNet *
HOLY_BIBLE and WHOLLY_BIBLE (C)(tm)(sm) 1988-95 Steve Winter,
All rights reserved worldwide (with contributers
retaining all rights to their contributions)
A very strict conference designed to expose fakes
by requiring that doctrines be proven with scripture.
... And to think, he's the product of 3,800,000,000 years of evolution.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/40.666)
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|From: George Rudzinski
|To: All
|Sub: Question
|Date: 18 Feb 96 19:25:34
EID:3802 20529b20
MSGID: 1:228/500.0 312895f0
I've asked this question before. And I'm going to ask it again.
Are there any Black users of this echo?
Or is this echo the conversvative version of "Whiteland"?
george
... Why do people with money tell poor people that money isn't everything?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.11 [NR]
* Origin: |=[Bloom Co. Hospital>=--- |[GRapids,MI] (616)361-8345 (1:228/500)
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|From: John Prewett
|To: Rob Burcham
|Sub: conservatives
|Date: 19 Feb 96 04:31:02
EID:b263 205323e0
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3
MSGID: 1:355/2.1012 129c4400
FMPT 1012
MH> Sure. However, I do not consider myself the sole indicator. About 40
MH> percent of evangelical Christians voted for Clinton in '92. Forty
MH> percent is a huge minority, hardly an insignificant fringe. And that's
MH> just among evangelicals, who tend to be more conservative than many
MH> other Christians.
RB> If that is true (40 percent), I am hugely surprised.
Why surprised ? After all, Clinton of 92 sounded like
a moderate Republican. And a good looking Baptist to boot.
Evangelicals could never warm up to stiff, Ivy league
Episcopalian Bush.
WBW, John
--- MacWoof Eval:17Nov94
* Origin: Slinging Seeds, FBKS, AK (1:355/2.1012@fidonet)
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|From: John Prewett
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: atheist hypocrisy
|Date: 19 Feb 96 05:11:38
EID:be8c 20532960
PID: MacWoof 1.5.3
MSGID: 1:355/2.1012 129c4401
FMPT 1012
-=> Quoting Brian Kolacy to Michael Hardy <=-
-=>
MH> M H> Several atheists have taken it upon themselves to berate
MH> Christians for using shareware offline readers for more than 30 days
MH> without registering. Unless those atheists are hypocrites, they will
MH> come down equally hard on Frederick Leff.
MH>
BK> 'Tis a different situation, actually. Fred doesn't have a book that
BK> tells him what his ethics should be. That old 'Thous shalt not steal"
BK> thing wouldn't be as effective.
BK>
MH> Aha! So you ADMIT that atheists need have no morals! :)
They act so hurt when that is pointed out to them.
Oh well, ..... WBW, John
Box 73223 Fairbanks,AK 99707 71461.507@compuserve.com
SHAREWARE FEE PAID MAY OF 1994
--- MacWoof Eval:17Nov94
* Origin: Slinging Seeds, FBKS, AK (1:355/2.1012@fidonet)
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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Discussion
|Date: 19 Feb 96 17:05:01
EID:3af3 205388a0
MSGID: 1:352/266 31292110
MH> According to Strong's Hebrew Concordance, the Hebrew word in question
MH> can be translated as larger creatures that fly. (As opposed to
MH> insects.) Apparently, English translators felt "bird" was the closest
MH> they could come to expressing the concept in one word.
Hehhehe well, I can relate to that. When I go out to eat and want some form
of seafood, I don't differentiate the shrimp and shell fish from the general
category of seafood. If the original writer used such a word, then perhaps
people are trying to find something to argue about if they get into the
"were bats included?" discussion.
MH> I'm willng to discuss anything. Unless you've been posting under
MH> another name, I haven't seen you here before. Yes, many people here
It's been about three years since I gave this echo any kind of attention.
I have been reading most of the posts for about the last three months to
see if there were any topics, or posters whom held my interest. Sooooo,
what area of religious thought would you like to discuss. I really prefer
to stay away from discussing the "I'm right, you're wrong" type of argument.
MH> issues. They prefer flames to debate. But there are a few that make
MH> it worth sticking around.
Hmmmmmm could you tell me which posters you tend to find worth reading.
I could then browse for those and skip the flamers.
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Get This...DIFFERENT DOES NOT EQUAL WRONG!! (1:352/266)
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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Olympic posters.
|Date: 19 Feb 96 17:09:37
EID:ab62 20538920
MSGID: 1:352/266 31292111
DC> You seem to be new here.. Goliath is the automatated FAQ mailer.
Hmmmmm guess there's a chance that if I yell loud enough someone might make
that FAQ available for freqing??
DC> BTW, nice to see I'm not alone in this Echo in this corner of
DC> the country. Was getting lonely here... }:-)
Well, I'm near (in fact in) Olympia, WA. I visit the peninsula almost yearly...
especially the Duckabush, Mt. Walker, and Fort Flaggler area.
I was on this echo about three or four years ago. I have recently been asked
to carry this echo and thought since I had it available again I'd give it
a looking over.
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Get This...DIFFERENT DOES NOT EQUAL WRONG!! (1:352/266)
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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: of "bats" and "birds"
|Date: 19 Feb 96 17:21:02
EID:61e7 20538aa0
MSGID: 1:352/266 31292112
DC> Not exactly what you are looking for, as, for the most part,
DC> it is a religion debunking Echo. Facts, not myths are the
DC> general rule of order.
Hmmmmm what is the purpose in debunking another's faith? If a person chooses
to not have a faith, that is their decision. If a person decides to have
a faith, that is their decision as well.
I don't believe facts can define why that type of decision may be made.
I could probably go with Jung and a discussion of the collective unconscious...
but again this is theory, not fact.
DC> You may wish, unlike your handle suggests, to lurk rather than
DC> join in the fray. If you look closely, you will be able to
DC> glean quite a lot of references for many religions and their origins.
I've noticed a few, but in general I've noticed mostly a lot of disrespect
among the people discussing on all sides of the religious/non-religious
line.
DC> Should you do decide to participate, do rember to back up any
DC> claims you make with facts, not conjecture or simple belief. To
DC> do so and stay on will truly make apropos your handle.
I'm not too disturbed by what kind of treatment I may get on this echo.
I do know where the "next" key is.
As for backing up all claims with facts, and not conjecture or simple belief....
that is indeed a difficult task when discussing belief systems. However,
I think I can survive the onslaught if I tread too close to the "belief"
side of the mark.
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Get This...DIFFERENT DOES NOT EQUAL WRONG!! (1:352/266)
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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: The Unofficial Holysmoke
|Date: 19 Feb 96 17:44:39
EID:f400 20538d80
MSGID: 1:352/266 31292113
KD> On (16 Feb 96) Katherine Wintersnight wrote to Ryan Shaw...
KD> In case it didn't go through the first time. :)
KW> .J. Hitt Death Spell Test Site Sugar-laden teeth rotting
KD> Cola
KW> RS>Marilyn Burge Freethinker Sutter Homes' White
KD> Zinfandel
KW> Ryan Shaw atheist draught Guinness
KW> Steve Quarrella Atheist Creemore Ale or any decent
KD> porter
KW> John Prewett Sister Lover/Bitch the blood of Christ
KW> Katherine Wintersnight Witch good coffee w\c&s
KD> Karen Davis Agnostic diet cola, Mai Tai
Masochistic Maiden Eclectic Wiccan Mountain Dew
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: churches
|Date: 19 Feb 96 08:15:29
EID:b742 205341e0
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 f6d0d49a
REPLY: 035D75A2
On (16 Feb 96) Al Schroeder wrote to Marilyn Burge...
AS> (Long story.) But I wrote to my wife before I met her face to face.
AS> The fact that she was beautiful was an added bonus. (To be especially
AS> mean, when we were corresponding, she sent me a picture that looked
AS> NOTHING like her. Well, at least I was pleasantly suprised.). So the
AS> person I fell in love with I partly fell in love with, by the force
AS> of her personality and wit and intelligence alone.
AS> Speaking of which...I am posting from a different board, but still
AS> within Nashville. If you see this, please respond.
Al, this is the first message of yours I've seen in over a month.
I've seen message TO you with stuff BY you quoted in them, but
I've not seen your name on the FROM line in perhaps as long as
two months.
I knew all that about you and Barbara. And, furthermore, I'm well
aware that not all men see things the way my parents attempted to
teach me men saw them. If all men were really that stupid, I'd
still be single. As you well know, I have no time in my life for
self-inflicted stupidity, regardless of the focus of said stupidity.
... Why do Christians worship a god that violated a virgin's civil rights?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/40.666)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: LES WILCOX
|Sub: Who cares?
|Date: 19 Feb 96 08:25:04
EID:faea 20534320
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 c15a2c72
REPLY: 1:147/48 3640a133
On (18 Feb 96) LES WILCOX wrote to DAN CEPPA...
-> Well, Les...
LW> ->
-> Where are you going to run and hide this time? Behind the
-> skirts of your god that tells you not to steal?
LW> Ceppatic
LW> Would you like to make a $50.00 donation to the ministry so I can
LW> register this copy of Wave Rider? If not I'll just answer you on line
LW> so that you'll drop this subject.
LW> What does your god tell you, Ceppa?
If he made a $50 donation to the ministry, and you then used the
money to register a piece of software that is being used primarily
to persue your hobby, then you would be adding fraud to your list
of other crimes, such as theft.
You really have no morals at all, do you?
You are a sorry piece of work.
... Innuendo: An Italian suppository.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Thumb-sucking Fundy
|Date: 19 Feb 96 09:47:28
EID:da5d 20534de0
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 5d814229
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 89280E35
On (18 Feb 96) Dan Ceppa wrote to Marilyn Burge...
-> On 02-16-96 07:34, Marilyn Burge got back to Don Martin
EH> to *evolve* to the point we are at right now. According to my
EH> Bible, it took six days, but who is to say what six days is,
MB> There's a book written by a fellow who has two Ph.D's -- one in
MB> law, the other in Jungian psychology. He wrote a wonderful book
MB> called _The Mind of the Bible Believer_ in which he explains the
DC> Sounds pretty good. Do you remember the author's name? Looks
DC> like you've just added to my already overloaded to-read list!
Edmund D. Cohen, ISBN 0-87975-495-8, Prometheus Books.
... Yes, my god exists! I carved him from wood myself.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Masochistic Maiden
|Sub: Subject Headers
|Date: 19 Feb 96 09:49:47
EID:7bfb 20534e20
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 f7250af9
REPLY: 1:352/266 31267CFF
On (17 Feb 96) Masochistic Maiden wrote to All...
MM> Hi, I'm new here and trying to find a place to fit in. I browse the
MM> echo for subjects of interest, then find that the post has absolutely
MM> noting to do with the subject line. Could it be that hard to shift
MM> the subject header when the conversation drifts?
We are big on giving a damn about subject lines. I've seen
SPONG ON THE CREEDS now for at least two months after the
last mention of Bishop Spong or any of his writings. You,
of course, are free to change a subject line any time you
choose, whether anybody else does or not.
... "Incontinence Hotline.... Can you hold, please?"
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Masochistic Maiden
|Sub: 1 god plus 1 god plus
|Date: 19 Feb 96 09:51:11
EID:f917 20534e60
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 be61414c
REPLY: 1:352/266 31267D00
On (17 Feb 96) Masochistic Maiden wrote to Katherine Wintersnight...
KW> Check periodically to see if fermentation is finished, this will
KW> takeabout ten days to two weeks. Fermentation is finished when the
KW> mead is no longer bubbling, and has begun to clear. Yes, it will
KW> look absolutely evil there for a while, don't worry, it is supposed
KW> to.
MM> Hmmmm checking the subject header then reading this post I can almost
MM> force it into a religious discussion.... Dionysus??? or Bachus??
Katherine has been posting nonsequitors to this clown for ages now.
The object is to get him to understand the value of QUOTING. So
far, that concept hasn't penetrated the calcium deposits above his
collar line.
... Is a fundy with zits an "Oxymoron"?
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: FOF UPDATE, STAAL
|Date: 19 Feb 96 10:39:48
EID:5609 205354e0
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 efae657c
On (17 Feb 96) Judith Bandsma wrote to Steve Wallis...
-=> Quoting Steve Wallis to Judith Bandsma <=-
SW> helping 1000's of souls come to Christ. What authority do you have to
SW> knock it. None at all. Take some time to think before you reply, after
JB> I have all the authority I need when I see a group that is actively
JB> working to take books they don't like out of libraries and deny people
JB> human status because they don't like their lifestyle. FoF is a HATE
JB> group. Nothing but. And they seek to spread that hate and make it the
JB> law of the land.
JB> I will not support them and will, in every possible instance, oppose
JB> them actively.
FoF was the group of scum behind that amendment to the Colorado
Constitution that got declared unconstitutional in the courts.
Nice, loving group of rejects from the KKK.
... A man drove me to drink. I never properly thanked him.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Don Ward
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: wrong board
|Date: 19 Feb 96 13:30:13
EID:21ab 20536bc0
MSGID: 1:388/14.0 3128cfc5
PID: BWRA 3.02 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
While listening in I heard
Martin Goldberg speaking about wrong board DW>> co-proccesser. I"ll take
$30.00 dollars for it...
DW> Prov 15:2 The tongue of the wise commends knowledge, but the
DW> mouth of the fool gushes folly.
MG>Didn't your god teach you not to steal, Don?
Look you un-intellectual moron what have I stollen? Are you so desperate
for attention that you have nothing better to do than bother people who
have a life? Why don't you run along and vote for Bill or do something
else stupid for America, other than bothering people who don't care about
your "little thoughts" about God............
Replace Bill Clinton with a republican.
* Wave Rider 1.33 # 761 *
---
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: SPONG ON THE CREEDS 2
|Date: 18 Feb 96 12:43:00
EID:0703 20526560
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 3128ce99
A lone voice in the wilderness, David mournfully howled out "@S"
DW>>>> Once again, you're making invalid assumptions.
DW>> Remember the above part, ok?
SA> The whole thing is based on two assumptions, anyway - 1)
SA> that aliens with interstellar technology exist
DW> A reasonable assumption, given the age and size of the universe.
I wouldn't rule out the possibility, at least.
SA> and 2) that their
SA> ways would be in ANY way recognisable and comprehendable to us.
DW> And that was the invalid assumption that both you and Al made.
Well, one can't exactly work with the incomphrehensible, so any
idle speculation of "what aliens might be like" must have roots in
human experience. Until we actually meet aliens, there's really
no point in arguing about what's valid or invalid.
SA> a decrease in religious fervour [save a few rampant fundies]. An
SA> alien species might never even invent gods in the first place.
DW> Or they might have 5 billion of the pesky little buggers running
DW> around underfoot. Either assumption is equally invalid without
DW> evidence.
Again, until we meet them, there's no telling. Maybe they do
invent gods, maybe they don't. Maybe they make their machines
into gods. As I was basing my speculations on general human
experience, however, the more that WE learn about the universe,
the less use we have for gods. Or, at least, tribalistic ones.
PERHAPS an alien species might be the same - but we don't know, so
there's no point in getting tight-assed about it.
Frankly, I consider the subject of aliens exactly the same as the
subject of gods or unicorns - fit only for fantasy RPGs, and only
worth worrying or arguing about when designing or playing a system
involving such things. And lest you think I think all aliens MUST
be nicey-nicey, be aware that I am desigining a system at the
moment involving extremely nasty aliens that love destruction and
causing pain, with a VERY low morality rating. Why? Why the heck
not? I like the concept for my purposes. And there are no aliens
around to bitch about discrimination or defamation of character,
so AFAIC, they're fair game to make into baddies, and the tech of
the aliens is left to the GM's own imagination, since aliens need
not appear in any game (and any party encountering them likely
wouldn't last long, either, since the only weapon I've specified
is a laser gun that hits for 2D20 damage. A really sadistic GM
could probably come up with something much, much worse if s/he
wanted.)
DW>> Now you're being overly idealistic. Replicators require energy.
DW>> Replicators would not automatically usher in some wonderful era
DW>> of perfect socialism. Instead of buying things, you'd be buying
DW>> the energy to *make* things.
SA> I suppose it would depend on what sort of energy they had.
DW> What other sorts are there? Energy is energy.
Perhaps a better term would be "what sort of energy production
they had."
SA> If it
SA> were nuclear fusion or fission, the materials could be
SA> replicated
SA> once replicators were invented, and waste materials recycled in
SA> the thing (assuming of course it would have the capabilities not
SA> only to make things from the atom up, but to take garbage items
SA> and deconstruct them into atoms to be used later.
DW>
DW> Does the acronym TANSTAAFL mean anything to you, Sue? Anything at all?
No.
DW> How 'bout the laws of thermodynamics?
What about it? What prevents a tremendously advanced technology
from designing a thing that can create items from the atom up?
We're already working on such a thing, referred to as
"nanotechnology". If machines can be constructed from the atom
up, then so could food or anything else. And just because it's
difficult for us now, doesn't mean that it won't be difficult for
us in the future, or for an alien species with highly advanced
tech and superior understanding of physics - perhaps they might
know things about "laws" that we have yet to discover. We simply
don't know. I merely presented an alternate possibility to Al's
suggestion that aliens might be little Torquemadas and his
objection that aliens that bothered to travel all this way would
necessarily want to contact us right away. For all we know, they
just might have a system of economics, sociology, or goverment
that we're too stupid to come up with that allows greater freedom
in what the species can do (without limitations imposed by money
or governmental expedience.) We as humans are simply so bound up
in a money economy, it's not likely any of us could even envision
a society without it - or, at least, an advanced one. There's no
reason to assume, however, that aliens would similarly be limited
by economics. They COULD be; they MIGHT be; but on the other
hand, they might not be. And until we meet some, who the fuck
really cares?
DW>> "Imagine" was a dream. A *nice* dream, certainly, but still a
DW>> dream. It is a dream that will never come to pass as long as
DW>> humans remain recognizably human, though.
SA> Who was talking about humans? I was thinking of _aliens_,
DW> While the details of an alien evolutionary tree would differ from
DW> ours, the underlying concepts would remain the same. These
DW> hypothetical aliens evolved from lesser creatures just as we did, and
DW> thus would have similar evolutionary baggage to carry around with
DW> them.
Yes; but they might have evolved from a more peaceful species, or
a less territorial one, a less violent one, etc. While it may be
invalid to assume that they might be peaceful, it would also be
invalid to assume that they're as boneheaded, territorial and
warloving as humans have historically been.
SA> any event. I think we've been quite lucky the past 50 years, in
SA> that no one has actually been stupid enough to start a nuclear
SA> war, considering that in the past, new weapons were used quite
SA> fervently and at the first opportunity
DW> Faulty analogy - no weapon in the past had the potential to destroy
DW> all human life. You simply cannot make comparisons between nuclear and
DW> conventional weapons.
Then why not let Saddam have nukes? Certainly he's not stupid
enough to risk "destroying all human life", is he? Or might he be
like a kid with a new toy, willing to risk his own people to wipe
out those he apparently hates? If there's little danger of such a
deadly weapon as an ICBM being used, then let's sell him a couple
hundred. Hell, let's give the damn things away to every little
tinpot dictator in third-world countries.
Or have we simply been lucky so far that the countries who DO have
nukes (or nuclear capabilities) have so far had governments not
inclined to use them against other countries? (Except, of course,
for the US against Japan. The US was pretty quick to use nukes in
that case. Once folks DID see the power they pack, though, a
sense of fear and responsibility sort of sunk in. More or less.
But there's no guarantee that all nuclear-capable countries will
have reasonably sane leaders forever.)
--Wolfie
To look into the eyes of the wolf is to see your soul - just be sure something
you want to view is there.
... Borger King. Have it our way, your way is irrelevant.
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: persevere
|Date: 18 Feb 96 13:02:01
EID:38b0 20526840
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 3128ce9a
A lone voice in the wilderness, Dan mournfully howled out "@S"
SA> for it. I don't want to even imagine what Swaggart would do to a
SA> country - especially a parliamentarian one, in which leaders wield
SA> far more potential power than presidents do.
DC> Interesting.... It's always seemed to me that a president has
DC> more power than a PM.
DC> Could you explain?
Basically, if the PM's party has a majority government, he's bound
to get his way, since members of parliament will tend to vote
along party lines. Even a minority government can ally itself
with a like-minded opposition party to pretty much guarantee
itself a victory in policy-making. The senate (or house of lords,
depending on the country) is usually little more than a
rubber-stamping factory, and it's very rare that they kill any
bill passed by the House of Commons. Shit, we just had a bill
here in Ontario passed that is VERY unpopular with the people -
but the government basically was able to ram it through, and their
majority government guaranteed that it WOULD pass.
We don't get to vote on every little measure, either - referenda
are few and far between; in my 27 years, there has only been ONE
federal referendum, and that about altering the constitution to
give Quebec and First Nations a bunch of concessions. (It was
voted down.) And even if the public says "No" on a referendum, a
government may go ahead and do whatever it wants anyway (though
they'd likely lose badly at the next election.) Only a plebescite
is binding, and those are even rarer than referenda. Basically,
the government doesn't have to ask permission from its employers
(the public) to do shit; fortunately, the next government can
change everything back again. (One of the federal Liberal Party's
promises was that if they were elected, they'd scrap the hated
GST. They haven't done it yet, though.) It might seem kind of
dictatorial, but no change or law need be forever, and such
change, for good or ill, can happen much more swiftly than in
government systems prone to gridlock and governmental infighting.
Plus ca change, plus ca le meme chose.
--Wolfie
To look into the eyes of the wolf is to see your soul - just be sure something
you want to view is there.
... "May you live in interesting times." - Chinese curse
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Aaron Boyden
|Sub: information
|Date: 19 Feb 96 21:32:41
EID:8349 2053ac00
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 ab2fc285
REPLY: 1:206/2720 19014e4b
On (19 Feb 96) Aaron Boyden wrote to John Prewett...
AB> The Meese commission was unable to find any discernable link
AB> between pornography and any kind of anti-social behavior.
AB> Considering how much they would have liked to find such a
AB> link, I'm inclined to conclude that the only thing which
AB> could have caused them to fail would be the absence of any
AB> such link, combined with a little more honesty from Meese
AB> than I would really have expected. I can see keeping guns,
AB> cars, even drugs away from kids, as they present clear
AB> dangers when irresponsibly used, and of course kids can't be
AB> trusted to be particularly responsible. However, the Meese
AB> commission didn't fail to find a link between responsible use
AB> of pornography and anti-social behavior; it failed to find a
AB> link between any use of pornography and anti-social behavior.
AB> Thus, the issue of responsibility doesn't seem to arise, so I
AB> don't see the need for making kids an exception in this area.
The Meese Commission, however, concluded with a statement that
despite having found no nexus, they STILL thought it was harmful
to children. The one thing I've never figured out is that they
also thought it was harmful to adults. Despite this, after having
spent a year saturating their synapses with the stuff, not one
member of the Commission went out and raped anybody, so far as we
know.
The whole thing was apparently a bit unscientific.
... Alzheimer's advantage #32: New friends every day.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: A tale of 2 inerrantists
|Date: 18 Feb 96 12:26:00
EID:8431 20526340
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 892845FD
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Rick Mcfarlane to Lynda Bustilloz <=-
LB> That is because modern science has DISCOVERED many of those
LB> distinctions, requiring a refinement of the language. But God would
LB> have know of those distinctions, since he made them, right? Ergo --
LB> the Bible is not the directly inspired word of God. It contains the
LB> mindset and outlook of the culture in which it was written.
RM> I'm not sure I follow your ergo, there. Not that I think the Bible
is
RM> inerrant (far from it), but this is an extremely weak argument.
RM> Dr. Seuss certainly is aware of ideas and distinctions that are much
RM> more complex than those found in his books. But those books are aimed
RM> at a certain audience, and those complex ideas and distinctions would
RM> not be relevant to that audience.
RM> The part of the Bible you are discussing here was aimed at a wandering
RM> desert tribe that did not distinguish between bats and birds, and did
RM> not posess the vocabulary to make that distinction. Under the
RM> circumstances, the fact that the bible doesn't make such a distinction
RM> is pretty easy to understand, regardless of whether the author was a
RM> member of that tribe or the almighty Creator Himself.
RM> Whether the author was aware of the distinction or not is irrelevant.
RM> The audience was unaware of it, so the distinction would naturally
RM> be omitted (unless it was relevant to the point being made, which in
RM> this case it was not). Ergo, this example does not provide any
RM> evidence that the Bible is not the directly inspired word of God.
Exactly. Which is also why Genesis doesn't include a detailed
description of evolutionary processes.
RM> There are lots of examples of inaccuracies and contradictions in the
RM> Bible, but this one (along with my favourite - the pi=3.00 thing)
RM> really isn't one of them. Now, rabbits and cud, or Jesus ancestry,
or
RM> which was created first, men or plants, or ... like I said, there are
RM> lots of them.
Interesting note, though -- the word translated "create" in Genesis
one means to make out of nothing. The word translated "create" in
Genesis 2 is a different Hebrew word which means to form out of
existing material.
... The world is a beautiful book, for those who can read it.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: atheist hypocrisy
|Date: 18 Feb 96 12:31:00
EID:3783 205263e0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 892845FE
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Ryan Shaw <=-
MB> Mikey is reaching for straws, anyway. If Styx had an evaluation
MB> copy that he was supposed to register after 30 days, and he spent
MB> a week on vacation after he installed it, he would be right on
MB> the line on day 37. And, given that he could have mailed in his
MB> registration paperwork and check and not received the floppy back
MB> that contains the registered version. . . .
MB> Of course, all this misses the obvious; 37 days is one helluva
MB> long way from 200-some-odd, and Styx isn't bragging about having
MB> an absolute frame of reference for his morals, as the fundies do.
A third admission that atheists have no reason to be moral.
Thank you.
MB> That's not to say, of course, that it would be morally proper,
MB> just that I don't see a double standard.
Of course you don't. You're part of it.
... A fool and his money are soon partying.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: points
|Date: 18 Feb 96 12:33:00
EID:24dd 20526420
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 892845FF
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Andy Soell <=-
AS> From what I've seen scanning through the messages, many of you seem
AS> very cynical of christians....why? There seems to be a stereotype (at
AS> least what I've read) that christians are stupid lazy people who are
AS> out of
AS> touch with the world and have closed their minds....mind if I ask why?
AS> Again, I just want to say now that as long as you at lea
MB> When we get messages all the time telling us that a global flood
MB> really, really happened; that dead people really, really do get up
MB> and walk again; that Mary really, really was a virgin, we end up
MB> with the impression that Christian are, indeed really, really mentally
MB> and intellectually lazy people.
In the case of the flood, you're right. In the other two cases, though,
your evidence that the claims are untrue amounts to "is not."
... Dammit, Jim! I'm a doctor, not a theologian!
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Aaron Boyden
|Sub: information
|Date: 18 Feb 96 12:35:00
EID:d7e0 20526460
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89284600
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Aaron Boyden to Martin Goldberg <=-
> Children, should not be allowed to watch porn. It is
> the responsibility of the parents to see to this if
> they feel the need is there. I am in favor of making
> electronic devices available but not mandatory in
> these cases.
AB> Out of curiosity, why shouldn't children be allowed to watch porn?
AB> Agreed that the parents should probably be able to control this if they
AB> wish, but you seem to imply that they have the duty, not only the
AB> right, to police their children in this respect. Why, exactly? I seem
AB> to recall having found a bit of porn in my youth, through various lucky
AB> chances, and I haven't noticed it having done me any particular harm.
Porn objectifies the opposite sex. It is concerned with the mechanics
of the sex act(s), not the emotional content of the relationship. As an
adult, you may find the stimulation of it harmless enough. To a child,
though, who is just beginning to understand sexuality -- or hasn't yet
begun to -- it skews the picture of what sex should be.
... Pull the other one.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: information
|Date: 18 Feb 96 12:37:00
EID:1561 205264a0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89284601
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Martin Goldberg <=-
MH> Should there be hardcore pornography on broadcast television
MH> at 4 in the afternoon?
MG> Harcore porn should be available to adults. there should be
MG> no censorship of it other than to insure that all the
MG> participants are adults and no one gets hurt.
MB> Why should out attitude toward porn be any different? Do we really
MB> think that prohibition in this area will be any more successful in
MB> keeping porn out of the hands of children than it was in keeping
MB> booze out of the stomachs of adults during THAT prohibition? Are
MB> we really that naive?
MB> Anybody who owns a camera can make porn. Porn is easier to make
MB> than booze was in the 20's, yet we are dumb enough to think that
MB> we can control the manufacture and dissemination of it? Hold onto
MB> your hats; it's going to be a bumpy ride, until common sense
MB> prevails over hysteria.
But we DO control access to it, Marilyn. That was my point. We don't
sanction having it on broadcast TV at 3 in the afternoon. We may not
control it perfectly, certainly, but we also don't throw up our hands
and say anything goes.
... Very funny Scotty. Now beam up my clothes.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Dan Oglesby
|Sub: One God not three
|Date: 18 Feb 96 12:40:00
EID:633e 20526500
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89284602
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Dan Oglesby to Karen Davis <=-
DO> But if I may I would like to attempt to answer your question above.
DO> It has presented itself as a great paradox for many years. If God
is
DO> so loving, and omnipotent, why didn't he change my circumstances?
DO> It would take a great deal on my part to explain this but I will
DO> condense it down in simple terms for brevity.
DO> For justice to be done, God should remove all of the evil in the
DO> world. At first glance that seems like a very good idea. But let
us
DO> consider it for a moment.
DO> For God to remove all of the evil in the world, He would have to
DO> remove a large amount of the population of the human race. Zappo!
DO> Everyone who has done anything wrong in their life, (and I believe
we
DO> all have at one time or another) are now removed. But it doesn't stop
DO> there. God would then have to remove those left, who are capable of
DO> evil. Therefore, there has now been a total removal of the human
DO> race. Debatably speaking, probably many other species of plants and
DO> animals also.
DO> Personally I don't like the above scenario. I also don't like any
DO> scenario that involves abuse of any kind. But if He would have
DO> altered the scenario in your circumstance, He would have been forced
DO> to do so for everyone else, to the point of infinity.
DO> The point is this. If that would have happened, then if we were
DO> heading to a scenario that might have been dangerous for us, God would
DO> be obligated to remove us from that scenario, to the point that we
DO> would become total robots with God pushing all of the buttons,,,, and
DO> then we would be claiming how God isn't fair, and we should be allowed
DO> to live our own lives......etc.
DO> Ain't much help, but it does make sense when you think about it.
Good answer.
People who feel victimized by others often take it as evidence that God
doesn't exist. What they fail to appreciate is the same moral freedom
that God allows their victimizer also benefits themselves. We all sin,
even though we do so in different ways. God may be holding off judgment
on Karen's abuser, but he's also holding off on Karen herself, and on
you and me. Eventually he will punish evil, but he allows everyone an
opportunity to freely realize their sin, repent of it and be forgiven.
Sounds like mercy to me. :)
... Tagline deleted -- Nothing funny about this.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Thumb-sucking Fundy
|Date: 18 Feb 96 18:45:00
EID:20b9 205295a0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89284603
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Don Martin <=-
MB> There's a book written by a fellow who has two Ph.D's -- one in
MB> law, the other in Jungian psychology. He wrote a wonderful book
MB> called _The Mind of the Bible Believer_ in which he explains the
MB> steps necessary to turn a rational human being into a fundy.
MB> Having actually gone through the steps himself, and having a
MB> well-trained ability to analyze the exact nature of the steps, his
MB> book is a scathing descrption of the processes involved. One step
MB> (number four or five, maybe) he calls "logocide." When this step
MB> is complete, a person is convinced that many everyday words have
MB> two meanings, one employed by the great unwashed, the other
MB> employed by we insiders. And never the twain shall meet. So once
MB> the dastardly deed has been done satisfactorily, "love" becomes
MB> "contempt for what you are," "day" becomes "any period of time we
MB> want it to be," and so forth.
He sounds like a condescending twit. Not to mention ignorant, judging
by your presentation of his points about the words "love" and "day."
In fact, the Hebrew word "yom," which is translated "day" in Genesis,
does NOT have to mean a literal, 24-hour day. It can mean an
unspecified age, as in our expression "in my grandfather's day." If I
say that, I don't mean a 24-hour slice of time, but a period of years
or decades. And if I say "in the day of the dinosaurs," I'm cramming
millions of years into that "day."
This is not a "fundy" invention, but the genuine meaning of the Hebrew
word.
As for his statement -- relayed by you -- regarding the word "love,"
it's completely baseless.
... Clip-clop..clip-clop....Clip-clop... (Amish drive-by shunning)
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Oscar Oosterman
|Sub: The Big Secret (shhhhhh)
|Date: 18 Feb 96 20:24:00
EID:69ca 2052a300
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89284604
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Dave Oosterman to Michael Hardy <=-
DO> -=| On 14 Feb 96 21:22, Michael Hardy said: |=-
MH> Got it on Valentine's Day, shweetheart ... :)
DO> Thanks. And don't address stuff to "David". It missed my search
DO> thingie!
Sorry. I've fixed that, as you can see in the header for this post. :)
... Nothing is foolproof for a sufficiently talented fool.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: 1 god plus 1 god plus
|Date: 18 Feb 96 20:25:00
EID:1b53 2052a320
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89284605
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Mimi Milstein to Ryan Shaw <=-
JG> My friend, much of Bible history has been proven as well as
JG> archeologically supported.
RS> The flood has not. Go back into your hole.
MM> There is always Graham Hancock's Flood theory, set out in
MM> "Fingerprints of the Gods", which does NOT require extra water,
MM> and which does NOT make a liar out of Noah or any of the other
MM> authors of Flood descriptions, as long as you accept that what
MM> these authors saw as a "deluge of the world" was in fact more
MM> localized. What we have here are memories of the violent end of
MM> the iceage - presented as legends from all over the world. Each
MM> society encountered "the end of the world by deluge" and spoke
MM> the truth as they saw it - but "the end" did not necessarily
MM> happen simultaneously.
That's a fairly common conclusion drawn by many Christians. However,
you'll find that most of the atheists on Holy Smoke take the Bible much
more literally than many Christians do. ;-)
... Jesus saves. The rest of us rack up credit card debt.
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