God Damned Fundies!
|From: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Quality fundy time
|Date: 20 Feb 96 23:22:23
EID:65ac 2054bac0
MSGID: 1:157/200 560211c3
TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E010747
MICHAEL HARDY spoke thusly to KEVIN D.:
MH> JP> Would you believe there are people
MH> JP> so dumb they think God is dead.
MH> JP> In spite of evidence.
MH>
MH> KDM> You have evidence? Real evidence? Non-biblical evidence?
MH>What?
MH> Why "non-biblical?" Whether you want to admit it or not, the gospels
MH> and letters of Paul *are* historical documents from the time. The
MH>fact that they were written by believers in the cause would not
MH> disqualify them as historical source documents if they were about
MH>any other person or subject. They would simply need to be read with
MH>the author's bias in mind.
Mike, I don't discount them as historical documents. AFAIK, Jesus
existed. He was a good man, but not a god.
MH> So why apply this unfairly strict standard in this case?
Because, if I remember his post correctly, he wasn't making a historical
claim.
... I am NOT lazy... I'm doing research on inertia!
* CMPQwk 1.42 602 * Internet: kdm2@po.cwru.edu *
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|From: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: Quality fundy time
|Date: 20 Feb 96 23:23:24
EID:5abc 2054bae0
MSGID: 1:157/200 560211d4
TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E010747
JOHN PREWETT spoke thusly to KEVIN D.:
JP>KD> You have evidence? Real evidence? Non-biblical evidence? What?
JP>JP> Some admit Jesus is alive, and see that the so-called "vicar" in
JP>JP> Rome is a phoney, but are so dumb they don't think it matters. In
JP>JP> spite of evidence.
JP>KD> You have evidence? Real evidence? Non-biblical evidence? What?
JP>
JP> The following is a correlation of some of the Revelations
JP> descriptions, and the unique fulfillment found in known facts
JP> regarding the Vatican.
Your reading comprehension is as good as ever, Prewett.
... We're lost, but we're making good time . . .
* CMPQwk 1.42 602 * Internet: kdm2@po.cwru.edu *
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|From: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Thumb-sucking evolungelic
|Date: 20 Feb 96 23:23:25
EID:fd9a 2054bae0
MSGID: 1:157/200 560211e5
TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E010747
ANDREW MASTEN spoke thusly to KEVIN D.:
AM>-=> Quoting Kevin D. Mckenzie to Andrew Masten <=-
AM> AM> None of the physical type, but a philisophical argument.
AM>
AM> KDM> Ye gods, philosophy.
AM>
AM> Philosophy, is more rational basis for belief then science,
AM> because science can't get off the runway without philisophical
AM> presuppositions.
Perhaps, but at least science can be applied to reality. Pure
philosophy can not.
... I just tested out my pitbull. Ever heard a mime scream?
* CMPQwk 1.42 602 * Internet: kdm2@po.cwru.edu *
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|From: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Viability
|Date: 20 Feb 96 23:25:26
EID:b2ab 2054bb20
MSGID: 1:157/200 560211f6
TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E010747
ANDREW MASTEN spoke thusly to KEVIN D.:
AM> AM> Its consistent throughout the bible. Without the shedding of
AM> AM> blood there is no forgiveness for sins.
AM>
AM> KDM> Why? He's omnipotent (yes, it's a big word. Look it up. No,
AM> KDM> not in the Sesame Street Dictionary, get a real one). Why must
AM> KDM> blood be shed? Or is your god no god?
AM>
AM> What justice would there be with God if He forgave sin without a
AM> What price. would you think of a magistrate who just let
AM> criminals go on a whimsy?
I'd think he might be worthy of worship. Look, if I can forgive others,
why can't he? I don't require people to go kill someone, I just forgive
them, assuming they are truly repentant.
... Who exactly is All, and why does he get so much mail?
* CMPQwk 1.42 602 * Internet: kdm2@po.cwru.edu *
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|From: Eric Hendrix
|To: Ross Catto
|Sub: Christianity
|Date: 20 Feb 96 07:16:39
EID:d531 20543a00
MSGID: 1:289/80 312C342D
RC> wants.By taking any kind of loan out, a Christian is disobeying a
RC> directcommand from god not to.
I do have one loan out. I have a loan out for a car, but no credit cards,
no other loans, straight cash. I agree that we should not take out loans,
but it couldn't be helped. My wife had wrecked the car we had paid cash
for, shortly after we bought it. We had a little saved up for our next car,
but not enough to purchase another one. So, we were forced to go get a loan,
or walk. I never have been exactly sure about whether that was right or
wrong, since my family was in need.
You said it seems we agree on a lot of things. I have an open mind, and
try to look at things from any side I can, as long as that side is presented
in a calm fashion. I like to debate, but not argue. Arguments often get
ugly, whereas at the end of a debate, both parties should be able to walk
away knowing a little about the other one, without any ill feelings.
Regards,
Eric...
* SPITFIRE v3.51
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|From: Eric Hendrix
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Christianity
|Date: 20 Feb 96 07:20:55
EID:ce73 20543a80
MSGID: 1:289/80 312C342E
DW> "Most" of his teachings are in the NT? When did He do any teaching in
DW> the Old Testament?
I stand corrected.
DW> Did the command say "owe no man anything, except for necessities"?
Well, I put this in the reply to Ross, but I'll explain it to you too. We
paid cash for our first car, and while we were driving it, we were saving
up for the second. Well, my wife had an accident and totalled the car, therfore
we had no choice but to get a car, or walk. I don't know if it was the right
decision, but I was backed up against a hard wall. My family needed transportation,
and with us living in a rural area, there is no public transportation. Other
than that, I have no loans, credit cards, etc...
Eric...
* SPITFIRE v3.51
--- Alexi/Mail 2.00 (#10000)
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|From: Eric Hendrix
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Cult Christianity
|Date: 20 Feb 96 07:26:00
EID:ebcc 20543b40
MSGID: 1:289/80 312C342F
FR> My guess is you haven't learned any world history. The Christanic
FR> death cult is the single worse deadly tyranny ever created by men.
FR> Christanics have murdered more people than any other cult or any
FR> other ideology or natural disaster save epidemic.
Ok, let me re-phrase. *I* don't go out and kill people, because it is against
my belief. I can't change what other people have done, nor will I be held
accountable for it.
Eric...
* SPITFIRE v3.51
--- Alexi/Mail 2.00 (#10000)
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: ANGELS....
|Date: 21 Feb 96 18:34:33
EID:1e90 20559440
MSGID: 1:207/212 7facb962
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 892A0E25
On (20 Feb 96) Dan Ceppa wrote to Dawn Kleuser...
DK> Hello, Everyone! I beleive very strongly in Angels, and would like
DC> Isn't it a liitle early? Pre-season practice hasn't even started
DC> yet.
Hey - they got a good trade or two [though they should have gone with
both guns after Benis or a *real* good lefthander] and should be able to
work on the gains they made last year. They crumbled. Why? Probably
because of all the rookies and their reliance on the fantastic batting
coach, who had a family emergency and wasn't with them quite as much.
:)
[Hey - how did my hubby take over the computer!]
... "One for the vaults!" -- Frank N. Furter
--- PPoint 1.92
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Robert Jackson
|Sub: Al Schroeder
|Date: 21 Feb 96 18:09:25
EID:dcd9 20559120
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 312b5ff6
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 312aa94a
21 Feb 96 00:10, Robert Jackson wrote to Norbert Sykes:
NS>> ... Uglk u bagronk sha pushdug Asmodeus-glob b#bhosh skai.
RJ> Two questions: What language? What's the translation? :)
It looks like Stupid to me... Maybe Azzie'll understand it better than he
does sarcasm.
---
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|From: Elliott Finesse
|To: Kenneth McAbee
|Sub: Re: Hello!
|Date: 22 Feb 96 18:23:00
EID:e51b 205692e0
MSGID: 1:215/130 0014ac34
In a message dated 02-19-96 Kenneth Mcabee wrote to ELLIOTT FINESSE:
>
> >> KM>>> Where's your evidence that a God who can ANYTHING doesn't e
>
> EF> EF>You are trying to shift the burden of proof, Kenneth. If the
exis
> EF> God was obvious then there would be no need to stress faith. It i
> EF> claim: "a God who can do ANYTHING exists". Not being able to disp
> EF> _claim_ is no more evidence it is true than not being able to dis
> EF> existence of blue monkeys on Pluto.
>
KM> That's one of the points I've been trying to make.
By "point" do you mean the one I made about you trying to shift the burden
of proof?
Or what?
KM> I might not be [sic] prove to you that God
KM> exist [sic] (because you don't except the
KM> Bible as evidence)
Gosh, you don't waste much time in putting words in my mouth, do you? Who
said I didn't accept the Bible as evidence for your god? Certainly it is
evidence. Unfortunately, though, it is woefully insufficient and fatally
flawed evidence. You yourself acknowledge this, at least in part, when
you state that one must first believe in the Bible in order to believe in
your god. You obviously have little confidence in your "evidence" if you
assume it's necessary to "believe" in the Bible even before you begin
reading it.
Thus, you are essentially saying I must have "faith" in the evidence [the
Bible]. The problem with this is, if it were really evidence you wouldn't
need to have faith in it!
> but it cannot be proven to me that he does not exist.
Duh! Nor could it be proven to you that Santa Claus doesn't exist - if you
choose not to be persuaded.
But a closed & dogmatic mind is nothing to be proud of, Ken.
KM> If it cannot be proven to me that he does not
KM> exist, I have no reason to stop believing in
KM> him,
Sure! Refuse to look at any knowledge that is contrary to your chosen
dogma and you can claim to have no reason to change it.
KM> and yes, I understand that you, without
KM> evidence, have no reason to start believing
KM> in him.
Gee, I guess I'm not spitting my words out fast enough for you?
So what do I say next?
KM> I also believe that unless you
KM> believe the Bible, that you cannot believe at
KM> all,
I agree. Without a conscious desire to believe beforehand, the Bible is
not persuasive at all. In fact I consider the Bible to be the best
evidence against God I have yet seen. I kid you not.
KM> because belief in God starts with the
KM> scriptures.
This is circular. You say I must believe in the Bible to start believing
in "him". But the Bible is supposed to be the word of your god. So
believing in the [the word of "god"] IS the same _as_ believing in "God."
Ergo it is circular, akin to saying: "To believe in God you must first
believe in God."
KM>Once you start believing the
KM> scriptures,
::sigh:: You proclaim your vast mental superiority to us all here, yet you
keep coming up with statements like this! (Pretty ironic, no?) How could
anyone possibly believe in "the scriptures" and not believe in the alleged
"author" at the same time?
The first thing the Bible says is "In the beginning God ..."
If you believe that passage you *must* also believe in God at the same
time! Duh.
Anyway, notice how you seem to stress that one must work at believing.
According to you, one must approach this with the desire to believe.
Why?
Why should I attempt to convince myself of something instead of deciding
based on the weight of the evidence?
Science doesn't require one have faith [belief] in the evidence for their
scientific theories. Just the opposite. Science puts the evidence on the
table and says: "Ok guys, kick the living shit out of it." And other
scientists do just that. Why? Because they know that when the smoke clears
if the evidence is still standing, they have something pretty substantial.
And another thing.
Can you point to any of the main characters in the Bible who had to do
what you claim is now necessary for belief in your god?
When your god toyed with Job, allowed his life to be destroyed to test his
"faith," NEVER was it an issue of Job not believing God _EXISTED_. It was
whether he would continue to _obey_ his God or not. Your god made himself
obvious to one and all.
So why do you ask more faith of me then God did of Job?
KM> then you might find other
KM> evidence as well, or be given the sign that
KM> some here have been looking for.
Why does your god now expect this when he expected it of no one (that I
know of) in the Bible? Your god made himself manifest. How come your god
asks more faith of me then he did of Paul?
KM> But then,
KM> you'all don't believe in dreams and visions
KM> either, or do you?
I can probably save you some time and effort here. Instead of querying me
about my belief/disbelief in a laundry list of phenomena I'll just tell
you how I approach such claims.
In general I assume that things do not exist unless I have evidence that
they do.
You may recognize this method, since you no doubt use it as well for most
other aspects of your life (I mean you probably don't believe in tooth
fairies, right?)
---
TIMM 1.0.2 - The Ideal Mac Mailreader.
Genealogies never consider the handsome neighbor
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|From: Elliott Finesse
|To: Kenneth McAbee
|Sub: Moral Relatives
|Date: 22 Feb 96 18:23:00
EID:5632 205692e0
MSGID: 1:215/130 0014ac40
KM>> So you refuse him because he protected his people as he promised?
You
KM>> refuse him because he wiped out those that would not worship him,
and
KM>> those that worshipped other gods instead? I don't know what you see,
KM>> but all I see is God doing what he had to do.
What Bible are you using anyway: the New Revised Disney version? You
crack me up, Ken. You really do! Don't you realize how amusing this
appears: there is no act too vile or too cruel your god can do that you
won't rationalize it one way or another.
When he slaughters innocents of other tribes he is _protecting_ "his
people" ("his people"?? Gee, who does everyone else belong to I wonder?).
What a wonderful, loving god to do that, right?
Then when he kicks ass on "his people", again cruelly punishing innocents
for the sins of the guilty, you do a 180 and tell us that's just your
wonderful, loving god "correcting" his little children. Yes what a
wonderful, loving god.
Here is a question for you I'm sure you will never give me a straight
answer to: What deed would be so terrible for your god to perform that it
would outrage even a radical moral relativist such as yourself?
Is there ANYTHING that would give you pause, make you stop and say,
"hmmmm, wait a minute, that seems pretty uncalled for"?
I'll give odds, to anyone stupid enough to take them, that there is
nothing - NO THING too despicable or outrageous your god can do that your
elastic morality can't handle. How about when he sells "his people" (yes,
_sells_) into slavery? Tough love, huh Ken?
Well I won't dwell on this right now. I'll let you make excuses for his
inexcusable behavior toward "his people" some other time. Right now I want
to go over your remarkable Biblical revisionism and rhetorical sophistry.
KM>> So you refuse him because he protected his people as he promised?
I guess it would be silly to expect someone who can rationalize any
immoral act of his god, to abide by his own religious precepts - like not
bearing false witness. That _is_ what you do here, Ken.
KM>>You refuse him because he wiped out those that would not worship
KM>> him, and those that worshipped other gods instead?
I love it! From the same fingers and keyboard that waxes poetic about the
"free will" that God so generously allows. I guess this is God's Catch-22
brand:
"Sure I'll allow free will. But choose wrong and I'll kill you on the
spot!" Hahahahahaha!!
To answer your question: you're goddamn right I would reject such a petty,
vindictive, prick of a god who would do something like that. I have moral
standards, Ken, unlike, apparently, you. You see, I am a humanist. My
morals don't have loop-holes you could drive a golden chariot through,
unlike some people around here I could mention.
KM>> I don't know what you see, but all I see is God doing what he had to
do.
Hey, don't let such glaring inconsistencies in your arguments get you
down. ( like claiming that "God" can do "anything," while you here excuse
your gods actions by saying he "had" to do these things.
Inconsistencies never seem to bother your god.
PS: Ken, if you are going to rely on the Bible as your "evidence" perhaps
you ought to begin reading it? Just a thought.
---
TIMM 1.0.2 - The Ideal Mac Mailreader.
Jesus is coming...quick look busy!
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|From: Elliott Finesse
|To: Kenneth McAbee
|Sub: Relative Stupidity
|Date: 22 Feb 96 18:23:00
EID:1683 205692e0
MSGID: 1:215/130 0014ac49
KM> Always have, so why do those in here keep
KM> asking us (Christians) for proof or evidence
KM> of God? Asking us to provide evidence of a
KM> being that is more powerful than us, who can
KM> do absolutely anything, over whom we have no
KM> power over at all, is just as stupid.
Oh the double standards are flying fast today! You make statements about
this god of yours, exactly as though they were facts ( "a being that is
more powerful than us, who can do absolutely anything, over whom we have
no power over" - being one minor example) and when asked to back up your
statements with the kind of evidence that would justify making them, you
characterize the request as "stupid?"
Perhaps you meant that requesting evidence from *you* for whatever you say
is stupid. If so, you might have a point. But if you meant it is stupid
to
expect there to _be_ any evidence, then I suggest you reflect on the
intelligence of making the kind of categorical assertions you have,
knowing full well they cannot be supported with anything other than
"because I say so."
So who is stupid: the one making the claim he can't support or the one
asking for evidence of that claim?
---
TIMM 1.0.2 - The Ideal Mac Mailreader.
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|From: Elliott Finesse
|To: Kenneth McAbee
|Sub: The Might Stuff
|Date: 22 Feb 96 18:23:00
EID:8853 205692e0
MSGID: 1:215/130 0014ac53
KM>> God can forgive, and he has told us how to get that forgiveness.
Unless, of course, he decides not to do so. In which case I am sure you
will have a plausible, ad hoc excuse ready
It's
KM>> funny there are many here that belittle God because he said to man
KM>> that man should not kill, but God himself (who has the right)
No, not the "right." The _Might_. A difference of one letter makes all the
difference in the world. The only way God could have the "right' to kill
me is if he proclaimed himself to have the right, which puts us right back
to *might*.
had to
KM>> kill and it's such a big deal because he did not (not my opinion)
KM>> follow the laws that he gave man.
Well it is certainly not a big deal to you, is it Ken! And _do_ continue
to stay far away from the actual words of the Bible and I am sure it will
continue to not be your opinion.
Anyway, Ken, I have to tell you that your editorializing in your series
of
rationalizations for god's psychopathic behavior are starting to push the
envelope. What do I mean? This, for one: "..God himself had to kill ..."
Excuse me? He *HAD* to kill? This _is_ the same guy you claim can do
anything, right? Or is he only omnipotent when he wants to be a big shot?
When it comes time to dish out the responsibility he's back to "hey, I
just work here" ?
Is that what you are saying Ken? Just because you believe your god can
_do_ anything doesn't give you license to *SAY* anything. Ok?
---
TIMM 1.0.2 - The Ideal Mac Mailreader.
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|From: Elliott Finesse
|To: Kenneth McAbee
|Sub: NOT a Ringer, I swear!
|Date: 22 Feb 96 18:23:00
EID:234a 205692e0
MSGID: 1:215/130 0014ac5b
KM>> God said that if you sin you must
KM>> die, and you condemn him for doing what he said.
No Ken. Let's just stick with the innocent victims of your god. There are
plenty and we never even have to leave the Bible.
Asside to Ken: When you alter your opponent's argument to his detriment
and pretend it is your opponent's true position - like you do here:
"...you condemn him for doing what he said..."
...it is considered a breech of ethics(1). Look up the word if necessary.
Anyway, try to avoid this in the future, ok Bud? Thanks!
(Now back to the show which is already in progress ....)
... blue goose-livers!!!
Anyway, my point is this, Ken: your god is condemned around here for his
vicious, blood thirsty behavior toward life on this planet(2) - as
chronicled in your Bible, NOT "...for doing what he said."
I was intending to use this discussion of your god's behavior as a
springboard to my main premise, which is: That Christian fundamentalism,
at its core, teaches radical moral relativism.
But you Ken, bless your heart, have saved me much ground work. I couldn't
have hoped for a better example of what I intended to prove.
I just hope people won't think you are my ringer.
(1) References upon request.
(2) Remember Ken: I am not saying your god exists, I am merely accepting
the premise for the sake of discussion. Try not to let it confuse you, ok
Bud?
---
TIMM 1.0.2 - The Ideal Mac Mailreader.
Bad Spellers of the world untie
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|From: Elliott Finesse
|To: Kenneth McAbee
|Sub: Careers in Spokesmodeling
|Date: 22 Feb 96 18:23:00
EID:a174 205692e0
MSGID: 1:215/130 0014ac64
KM> God said I will
KM> sacrifice my Son so that you do not have
KM> die.
KM>I have no idea why there
KM> must be the shedding of blood for sin, I'm
KM> not God I am not qualified
KM> to tell you why God made it that way.
Geeze, Ken, why the change of heart?
KM> All I can say is that that is
KM> the way it is, that is what God said has to
KM> be done, so that is the
KM> way that it must be.
Phew. Boy, you had me scared there for a minute! I was afraid you were
going to give up speaking for God altogether!
---
TIMM 1.0.2 - The Ideal Mac Mailreader.
Has that file been saved? No, but we're praying for it.
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|From: Elliott Finesse
|To: Kenneth McAbee
|Sub: He's Jealous! He's Crazy!
|Date: 22 Feb 96 18:23:00
EID:9f24 205692e0
MSGID: 1:215/130 0014ac6b
KM> Maybe you consider jealously a character
KM> flaw, I do not. I believe
KM> that it is a natural feeling that goes right
KM> along with love.
Here we are talking about a god that, by his own account, acts in a manner
any sane person would call insane: a petulant, genocidal psychopath. And
Ken, God love 'em, is concerned we may think his god has a "character
flaw."
Sorry folks. This one is beyond my ability to satirize. Any takers?
Jealously is not necessarily a character flaw, Ken, but it is a flaw
certainly. Jealously is a form of unhappiness. A perfect being cannot have
a lack (cannot lack happiness) - by definition.
Get a Bible Ken. You'll discover that jealously is the least of your god's
problems.
---
TIMM 1.0.2 - The Ideal Mac Mailreader.
I don't mind straight people as long as they act gay.
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|From: Larry Jansen
|To: All
|Sub: End Times!
|Date: 22 Feb 96 13:01:00
EID:530e 20566820
PID: RA 2.02 23041
MSGID: 1:123/319 56cb0694
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7949
I hope you realize that the international bankers are behind us being
in Bosnia. Iraq and Iran are next on their agenda. "Too bad" that
our "children" will have to die, so that they can make more money, and
enslave the world.
All hail! Satan and his New World Order are upon us -- ez. 38, 39, 40;
rv. 20: 7-15.
---
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|From: Steve Rose
|To: LES WILCOX
|Sub: Who cares about a fundy?
|Date: 22 Feb 96 08:11:18
EID:bf9c 20564160
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 11804307
REPLY: 1:147/48 37e6fb04
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
LW> I'm not attending church right now, and when I did attend I was
LW> not tithing
You'll be in the Lake of Fire for sure, now. Burn brightly little fundy.
We want to see your flesh glow for miles. Your pet hamster is down there
now, pleading your case.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
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|From: Styx Allum
|To: All
|Sub: Conference Guidelines
|Date: 22 Feb 96 12:26:00
EID:0724 20566340
MSGID: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 1a8c65a7
Re: HOLYSMOKE Echo Guidelines
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Basic Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed in this echo are those of the writers
identified in the header of each message. No other responsibility
is expressed or implied for the content of the messages in this echo.
Rules to Follow:
[1] Please refrain from attempting to force your ideas on others,
or to be deliberately disruptive in the echo.
Those who engage in such activity may find their feed to this
echo terminated.
[2] As is customary in echomail, private messages are not allowed.
[3] If you wish to post messages on this echo please try to keep
your comments and ideas on a rational level. This will help
to facilitate an open and free flowing dialogue.
Please refrain from entering statements like:
"I know I'm right and everyone who thinks otherwise is stupid!"
or
"You're gonna burn in hell if you don't accept god."
Such messages only serve to irritate others, and do little
more than to raise the noise level of the echo.
[4] Attempt to quote only relevant text, in order to make your
messages more legible, and to lessen the burden on those
who pay to move each byte posted in this conference.
[5] Deliberate censorship of wording contained within a quote
attributed to another in this echo is expressly forbidden.
Echo Purpose: (To let you hear what you just said) ;-)
This echo provides an open forum where one can argue for or against
religion(s). Both religious and anti-religious views are allowed.
Atheists, agnostics, religious right-wingers, bible babblers,
bible bashers, preachers of doom, echovangelists, conservatives,
liberals and those with (hopefully curable) crucifixation are welcome
in HOLYSMOKE. (As long as they abide by the guidelines above!)
Enjoy and happy debating!
Styx Allum, Moderator (1:152/20)
P.O. Box 5150
Eugene, OR 97405-0150
---
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|From: Styx Allum
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: JIM STAAL
|Date: 22 Feb 96 12:54:01
EID:6376 205666c0
MSGID: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 1a8c65a8
>> You've never known what it's like to look at that glass ceiling.
>>
>SA> I've been on the opposite end of reverse discrimination before.
>SA> I was turned down for a job at a pet store because I was a man.
> And the woman they hired probably would be paid only $.65 to every
> dollar they would have had to pay you.
Busted. The wage was published. Applicants could either accept
it, or not apply. Now you can see why I dislike the prejudicial
suppositions that so many people make. They fail to see that by
promoting an attitude of being persecuted, they bring upon
themselves the very act that they expected.
> Some employers embrace affirmative action just for that reason.
SOME. Not all. I embrace positive attitude, ambition, and aptitude.
Gender would not be among my criteria for considering employment.
However, if someone were to come in with an attitude of mysogyny
or expectations thereof, they would quickly fall to the bottom of
my list of preferred applicants. The same would be true for anyone
who exhibited an inclination to accuse, protest, or complain.
> For some (and I'm NOT saying all)
Thanks for qualifying the statement. It's refreshing.
> it is easier to tell you that they 'have' to hire someone else
> than to tell you they don't want to pay you properly.
>SA> I don't deny that creeps such as you describe exist. I merely
>SA> take issue with the implication that "the majority of" men
>SA> are supposedly like that.
> The majority of white, influential males ARE like that, Styx.
Such generalizations should not be stated as fact unless one is
prepared to support their argument. I don't believe your statement
to be true; therefor, I request the same of you that I do of
Christians who make claims based upon blind faith.
I'm certain that statistics regarding the above can be found to
support either pro or con arguments for the above. It's largely
a matter of which sources one chooses to believe.
Reality may differ from both opinions.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: atheist hypocrisy
|Date: 22 Feb 96 15:20:54
EID:1bfa 20567a80
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 312c8a82
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 892946BF
20 Feb 96 10:23, Michael Hardy wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> or not. If you tell me "Thou shalt not steal" while using
DW>> unregistered software, however, I'm going to abuse the hell out
DW>> of you.
MH> FOUR admissions that atheists have no morals. This is outstanding!
Get your goddamned head out of your ass, Hardly. We simply don't expect
others to blindly follow our moral code.
Besides, as has been pointed out to you, that was a tagline.
... This copy of Gedit has been unregistered for 6.02x10^23 days.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Brian Kolacy
|Sub: CENSUS
|Date: 22 Feb 96 15:30:43
EID:b318 20567bc0
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 312c8ce2
REPLY: 1:272/99 00189111
19 Feb 96 20:28, Brian Kolacy wrote to Michael Hardy:
MH>> I never said the "star" would be visible to everyone. I'm talking
MH>> about a flashlight and Dan's talking about a searchlight. What I'm
MH>> saying is that God might have created a beacon just for the Magi,
MH>> not a new star in the sky for all the world to see.
BK> Hmmm...thats novel.
Jehovah: "Ok, Gabriel, I want you to make a star and place it directly over
my son's birthplace."
Gabriel: "Right, boss - I'll get on it right away"
Jehovah: "Hold on there, Gabe. This has to be a special star."
Gabriel: "Special, boss? How so?"
Jehovah: "I only want the magi to see it. You see, 2000 years from now there's
going to be a bunch of people that don't believe in me. I want to send them
to hell, so I need to give them reasons to *not* believe the Bible."
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: children
|Date: 22 Feb 96 15:14:16
EID:27c2 205679c0
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 312c88b4
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012 12b0ca13
19 Feb 96 16:28, John Prewett wrote to David Worrell:
JP>> Your retort will only impress your fellow dolts.
DW>> And your retort is going to impress anybody besides yourself? Lose
DW>> that whacked-out JFK/Kissinger fantasy of yours, and I might start
DW>> caring about your opinion.
JP> No you wouldn't. You, and many HolySmoke heathes/atheists think
JP> people are mentally defective just because they believe in GOD.
Bullshit, looney. I know several Christians personally that I have a good
deal of respect for. In this echo alone, there's Al and Lynda.
DW>> Until then, you're just a friggin' loon that ought
DW>> to be locked in a rubber room for his own good.
The above statement stand, dipshit.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Churches
|Date: 22 Feb 96 15:19:22
EID:ac27 20567a60
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 312c89ae
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 312a5ecd
20 Feb 96 00:32, Lynda Bustilloz wrote to David Worrell:
KM>> That's a remarkably stupid attitude, IMO. If/when I get married,
KM>> I want to marry a friend, an equal, not a puppet.
DW>> There's a lot to be said for puppets, though.
LB> I completely agree, Mr. Helpful Dave Happy-Puppet!
Who let you out of the kitchen? And where the hell did you get those shoes?!
:)
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Don Ward
|Sub: CPu parts
|Date: 22 Feb 96 14:40:02
EID:51a3 20567500
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 312c8088
REPLY: 1:388/14.0 312716d9
18 Feb 96 06:08, Don Ward wrote to David Worrell:
DW> While listening in I heard
DW> David Worrell speaking about CPu partsDW>12 Feb 96 06:16, Don Ward
DW> wrote to :
DW>> I have a Intel 386dx 25MHZ motherboard with math co-proccesser.
DW>> I" take $30.00 dollars for it...
DW>>
DW>> Not only do you steal shareware, you apparently also try to rob
DW>> people.
DW> Is it that you cannot afford it?
BZZT! A 386/25 isn't *worth* thirty dollars, pimple.
Thou shalt not steal, remember?
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 22 Feb 96 15:59:46
EID:af5f 20567f60
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 312c9310
REPLY: 1:138/255.0 31279dd7
17 Feb 96 11:25, Andrew Masten wrote to David Worrell:
AM> Then I must be standing head and shoulders above my detractors who
AM> rarely if ever rely on evidence for thier myoptic views.
I see you're confused, Andy - that really doesn't surprise me. You have
yet to provide anything beyond supposition and guesses. Try again.
AM>> Do you call citing facts from a
AM>> reference source plagerizing?
DW>> It is plagiarizing when you don't give the source.
AM> Pla-gar-rize To steal and use (the ideas or writings of another)
as
AM> one's own. -The American Heritage Dictionary-
Exactly. You did not quote the source with the information. You plagiarized.
You're going to hell, son.
AM> Of course you have yet to cite a single source in rebuffing the
AM> evidence I presented.
I am not required to cite sources simply to show you that you don't understand
what you claim to be evidence, dipshit.
DW>> I'm still waiting for you to tell me just how science
DW>> precludes God.
AM> And I'm still waiting for you to tell me what your credentials are,
Irrelevant.
AM> what degree's you have and what was your master thesis??
Also irrelevant. What does my educational status have to do with the above
question? Answer it.
AM> As
AM> for your question that was asked and answered.
No, you made up a question, similar to mine, and answered it. Try again.
AM> its poking holes in my evidence. In the words of a famous scientist
AM> aboard the U.S.S. Enterprize, " I find that highly illogical."
^12
1. That's Enterprise
2. "Spock" is not a scientist - he's a character on a TV show.
I now see why you have such a poor understanding of what science is all
about - yet get your information from Star Trek.
ML>> And, now, how can one evaluate the pros and cons of purely
ML>> mental constructs?
AM> How indeed!
You seem to be trying valiantly to do it with your mental construct of a
deity.
DW>> nitrogen on Jupiter, a gaseous planet. Yet you claim that Jupiter
DW>> has no carbon and nitrogen,
AM> Like the Sun and primeval nebula, Jupiter is primarily composed
AM> of hydrogen and helium. Jupiters atmosphere also contains
AM> TRACE amounts of water, ammonia, methane and other organic
AM> (carbon) compounds.
AM> Source Groliers Encyclopedia.
Right. Yet you claimed that Jupiter had no carbon and nitrogen. Regardless,
Jupiter is a *big* planet, with a diameter of 88,700 miles at the equator.
"Trace" amounts of carbon, for Jupiter, would be a mass of carbon equivalent
to (or greater than) the Earth's mass. That's a lot of carbon, dipshit.
Do try to understand these things next time, before embarassing yourself
again, ok?
AM> Now whats the source you have for believing that there's plenty
AM> of
AM> carbon and nitrogen on Jupitor?
The very encyclopedia entry you just quoted. I'm quite sure you'll fail
to udnerstand it, though.
AM> And what did you say were your
AM> credentials for evaluating scientific data.
Consider that you have yet to produce any scientific data, I need no credentials.
DW>>> I see you failed to answer his question. Why must this designer
DW>>> you speak of be Jehovah?
AM>> If you don't believe we are created, what difference does it
AM>> make? If you do, you can compare religions for yourself.
Why don't you answer the question instead of doing the fundy shuffle? Show
the connection between this Designer you speak of and Jehovah.
Could it be that you are unable to do so, and simply don't have the balls
to admit it?
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Evolungelicals
|Date: 22 Feb 96 15:23:51
EID:1618 20567ae0
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 312c8aeb
REPLY: 1:138/255.0 312a40e6
18 Feb 96 09:41, Andrew Masten wrote to David Worrell:
HP>>> scientists (winos like Hugh Ross excepted). Science simply does
HP>>> not _include_ untestable gods.
AM>> You've answered your own question.
DW>> Why are you xtians so goddamned bipolar? Just because a thing
DW>> does not include X does not mean it *precludes* X. Are you sure
DW>> you know what preclude *means*? Now answer the question: How does
DW>> science preclude God?
AM> Because it doesn't employ any hypothesis that include a creator.
The internal combustion engine doesn't employ any hypothesis that include
nuclear fusion, either. Does this mean that the internal combustion engine
precludes nuclear fusion?
Try again, moron.
How does science preclude God?
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: Gramm
|Date: 22 Feb 96 15:18:16
EID:0e41 20567a40
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 312c8977
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012 12b0ca20
20 Feb 96 14:55, John Prewett wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> 16 Feb 96 04:01, Katherine Wintersnight wrote to Michael Hardy:
KW>> much self respect to vote for any of the republicans. Hell,
KW>> the last time I voted for a repulican't was when Ford ran.
DW>> "Middle aged mommy type" my ass.
DW>> You're ancient. :P
JP> You're an obnoxious kid.
You're a fucking lunatic.
BTW, I talked to JFL yesterday, and he tells me he's getting out of the
Anti-Christ business.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Hello!
|Date: 22 Feb 96 14:59:23
EID:be6a 20567760
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 312c87fc
REPLY: 1:271/460 31284e99
19 Feb 96 04:53, Kenneth Mcabee wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> Hector's Law just lopped your head off, li'l fundie.
KM> Nope, still attached,
That's what they all say.
KM> btw, what's a fundie, can't seem to find that
KM> word in my dictionary.
Do you try to look stupid, Ken? Is Deoxyribonucelic Acid in your dictionary?
Do you doubt that it exists?
DW>> I see you're unable to come up with any substantive flaws in my
DW>> analogy, so you must resort to silly attempts at wisecracks.
KM> You can call me an evel unbeliever all you want. You produce
KM> fairy-tales, I'll produce wisecracks about it.
Then stop whining when we make wisecracks about your fairy tales, fundy.
Besides, I have yet to see a real wisecrack from you. I've seen several
abortive attempts, though.
KM> You know that there is
KM> no tooth-fairy, you know the tooth-fairy never claimed to be
KM> divine.
Just as, deep down inside, you know there is no God. You're just afraid
to admit it.
KM> You want to play a game and say she's real? That's your problem,
KM> since
KM> you don't want to discuss religion but rather fairy-tales,
Religions *are* fairy tales, fundy.
KM> why don't
KM> you find an echo that discusses them.
I'm in one right now.
DW>> I see a claim. Unfortunately, once again I see no evidence. Got
DW>> any?
KM> Sure, lot's of it, got a Bible?
Yeah, but some of the pages are missing. I ran out of toilet paper last
week. Regardless, the Bible doesn't qualify as evidence for God any more
than the Illiad qualifies as evidence for Zeus.
DW>> Pascal's Wager *again*, li'l fundie. I had hoped your two lonely
DW>> neurons would have come up with something a little more sound by
DW>> now.
KM> Pascal's Wager over and over and over again. You can call it any kind
KM> of wager you want, but tell me, if I'm wrong about the Bible, what do
KM> I lose? Nothing, zip, danada, not a thing, I won't even know about it.
Bullshit. You assume that Jehovah God is the only possible God. If Zeus
is really the creator, he's going to be quite pissed that you spent your
life worshipping that Jehovah pretender. If the toothfairy is the Creator,
she's going to be pissed that you spent your life worshipping Jehovah. If
Kali is the creator, you're in trouble, too. Likewise with Odin, Jupiter,
Cronos, and all the other possible Gods out there.
DW>> You *know* no such thing. If you did know it, you'd be able to
DW>> offer some real evidence to back the claim up.
KM> Why bother to ask someone that believes the Bible to give you evidence
KM> other than the Bible? Where's the logic?
It certainly isn't in the Bible, or anywhere in your vicinity.
DW>> RIght after God accounts to me for his murdering and rampant
DW>> destruction.
KM> God does NOT have to account to you for anything,
Oh yes he does.
KM> you are not greater
KM> than God.
On the contrary, I am greater than God. I don't go around slaughtering women
and children for the hell of it.
KM> And BTW you WILL account to him for your disbelief.
As I said, right after he accounts to me for all the murders he has committed
and led others to commit.
DW>> Until such time as he chooses to do so, however, fuck God.
KM> He'll remember you said that too.
Fuck him again. And again. And again. And again.
KM> You know the way you talk about him, I really hope that you are
KM> saved, or get saved before you die, I'de hate to meet him after
KM> saying something like that about him, or to him.
We already know you're a grovellor, Ken. There's no need to provide evidence
for that.
DW>> You can keep
DW>> groveling before him, though, if you must. I realize how hard it
DW>> is to stand on your own feet when you have no backbone.
KM> Shows how little you really know about a Christian, I don't "grovel"
KM> at anyones feet including God's.
Sure, Ken, whatever you say... you must get awfully dirty down there squirming
in fear on the floor, though.
KM> and if he wants me to "grovel" I'll take up doing that too.
You already have, Ken.
KM>>> If he wanted you to go to hell,
DW>> BZZZT! Once again, you are not answering the question that was
DW>> asked of you. You claim that God might have hid the evidence for
DW>> the flood. I asked you why he would do such a thing.
KM> Like I said, if he wanted you to go to hell,
Damn, you're a dumbass.
Once again, you're not answering the question that was asked of you. Why
would God hide the evidence of the Flood?
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Elliott Finesse
|Sub: of "bats" and "birds"
|Date: 22 Feb 96 15:45:30
EID:9d66 20567da0
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 312c8fe2
REPLY: 1:215/130 00149209
21 Feb 96 18:52, Elliott Finesse wrote to Michael Hardy:
EF> Is your rationalization flexible enough to explain why your god also
EF> says that insects walk on 4 legs,
You'll enjoy Hardly's rationalization for that one: Grasshoppers do have
4 legs... and two hoppers.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Robert Jackson
|Sub: US Bans AbortionSpeak on 'Net
|Date: 22 Feb 96 15:13:28
EID:bff5 205679a0
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 312c883d
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 312aa93d
20 Feb 96 14:06, Robert Jackson wrote to David Worrell:
DW>>> speaking of that putz, do you want to bet his name used to
DW>>> be just plain old Terry Parker, until he got swept up in
DW>>> this militia craze?
TP>> Hey jerkface, did you have something you wanted to say to me; or
TP>> do you just do your cowardly snipping behind your would-be
TP>> opponents back?
RJ> "Hey jerkface"??? We go from "Give me liberty or give me
RJ> death" to "Hey jerkface" in just 220 short years...tsk.
:)
What else did you suspect from someone who supports blowing up daycare centers?
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: US Bans AbortionSpeak on 'Net
|Date: 22 Feb 96 15:16:16
EID:1617 20567a00
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 312c8939
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012 12b0ca18
19 Feb 96 17:36, John Prewett wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> The idea of you calling *anybody* else irrational is ludicrous,
DW>> Terry.
JP> why ? HE doesn't claim JFK's gonna reappear.
JP> Terry's never even acted particularly religious.
Unfortunately, mainstream religions don't have a monopoly on irrationality.
Liberty-Parker can be said to follow a religion of sorts, though. That whole
militia nonsense is built on the faith (with no evidence whatsoever) that
the government is out to get us.
---
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|From: Simon Ewins
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: One God not three
|Date: 21 Feb 96 20:31:28
EID:bdbe 2055a3e0
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 892946C1
PID: FleetStreet 1.14 #115
MSGID: 1:250/666 312b8120
CHRS: IBMPC 2
MH> This was not known to the first English translators of the Bible,
MH> including the King James translators in 1611. The older manuscripts
MH> were discovered later. More recent translations include it (because
MH> they'd be accused of covering up if they didn't) with the note that
MH> it doesn't appear in the best manuscripts.
Agreed.
MH> That being the case, Rudzinski's constant "I'll pour" diatribe is
MH> meaningless.
Only when directed at you or any other that recognizes that much of the
gospel is more the 'word of creative men' than the 'word of god'.
When directed at a mindless automaton who was told that the bible is true
word for word, cover to cover, no questions askable, and believes it...
then it is far from meaningless since it points out quite well a) the errors
in thinking that are required in order to accept the bible as 'truth' from
cover to cover and b) the hypocrisy of those who claim to accept it as such
but would not test the "I'll pour" theory with thier own faith.
Now, since you have agreed that at least one portion of the bible is of
doubtful authenticity, how do you manage to determine that the rest is 'truth'?
Which other bits are not part of "god's truth" and which are, and how do
you tell one from the other?
How meaningful is the term 'word of god'? Or is it the 'word of god except
for the bit at the end of Mark'?
If it is known to not be authentic, why is it still in the latest editions?
What 'test' do you apply to any given passage to determine if it is "god's
truth" or if it is a redaction (as in Mark)?
Take care,
Simon
wiz@axaxa.com
http://www.axaxa.com/axaxa
cserve:70543,2540
---
* Origin: A_X_A_X_A :: Where only reality matters :: (1:250/666)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: Thumb-sucking Fundy
|Date: 22 Feb 96 20:04:46
EID:55e6 2056a080
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 628f058f
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012 12b0ca1c
>> And so does the mass killings.
>> Answer the damn question.
>> Why does your god murder?
AM>> What mass killings you refering to?
MG>> Does the name "Jim Jones" ring a bell?
JP> How long have you equated Jim Jones with God ?
I never have. Your ability to sidestep the issue is wonderful.
Point is, tht some poeple trusted him and he murdered them. Your god let
it happen.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: EVIDENCE
|Date: 22 Feb 96 20:09:00
EID:09ff 2056a120
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 628f16a3
AS> Just curious. (Oh, lest I be misunderstood, the world I am
AS> postulating would be like ours in every way except for the
AS> fossil record. I AM postulating a world where the lifeforms
AS> are formed by straightforward evolution.)
Behind the truth of evolution lies evidence. If the fossil record were
nonexistant, there are other methods. Small amounts of organic matter can
yield information about our past. In today's lab, I can detect 1.0 femptogram
of DNA (10^-15 grams). We can still compare sequences of living organisms.
The eivdence for the ruth is still there even if the fossil record were
not.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: THE FIRE
|Date: 22 Feb 96 20:13:17
EID:190d 2056a1a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 628f1a24
AS> Nashville. Home of country music, which no native Nashvillian
AS> listens to, we just take the money.
I don't listen to it unless it was written 100 years ago.
AS> to redesign my web page or anything. (Not that that's hard,
AS> but I would have to look up all the links etc.). Probably
AS> get the system this upcoming Saturday (writing this in the
AS> 19th.).
Let us know the url of the page once you get it up.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 22 Feb 96 20:14:38
EID:0bb0 2056a1c0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 628f224d
REPLY: 1:138/255.0 312a40e5
AM> Can you tell me a Designer didn't create this universe? If the
AM> answer is "I can't prove a negative" then why saddle me
AM> with the same dilemma? If you know of some unknown life,
AM> then here is the criteria I was faced with.
I think you had better reread the above without first drinking too much
first. I need evidence nothing. You make the claim of designer, you show
me the evidence. What you did instead was to post a bunch of trivial nonsense
and hope that it was evidence. It is not. You have failed to show how
the two are related.
AM> I have shown you evidence of a designer. Where is your list of
AM> evidences that suggests it was created by natural causes?
You've shown us what you WANT to be evidence. You show the designer and
get him to tell us that he did indeed design the universe and I'll believe
you. But don't quote the gawddamned bible.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: atheist hypocrisy
|Date: 22 Feb 96 20:20:20
EID:a479 2056a280
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 628f2969
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 892946BF
DW>> Hardly, how many times must this be explained to you?
DW>> Neither Fred nor any other atheist here claims to fallow
DW>> some superior moral code that everybody else should follow
DW>> as well. I don't give a fuck whether your software or anyone
DW>> else's is registered or not. If you tell me "Thou shalt not
DW>> steal" while using unregistered software, however, I'm
DW>> going to abuse the hell out of you.
MH> FOUR admissions that atheists have no morals. This is
MH> outstanding!
Did you read the same thing that I did? It says nothing of the sort.
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: atheist hypocrisy
|Date: 22 Feb 96 20:21:04
EID:a479 2056a2a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 628f2ba0
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 892946C2
MH> Of course not. Since I posted this, four atheists have explained
MH> the difference: Atheists don't claim to adhere to a moral
MH> code, ................
...........that is followed by everyone else.
Or did you forget that part?
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Ryan Shaw
|Sub: HolySmoke Pick Yer Poison List
|Date: 22 Feb 96 20:32:47
EID:7209 2056a400
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 628f4932
REPLY: 1:152/67.0 1279ae91
>> User Stance Favorite Poison
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> ---- The Late J.J. Hitt Death Spell Test Site Sugar-laden
>> teeth
>> rotting cola
>> Marilyn Burge Freethinker Sutter Homes'
>> White Zinfandel Ryan Shaw atheist draught
>> Guinness Steve Quarrella Atheist Creemore
>> Ale or any
>> decent porter
>> John Prewett Sister Lover/Bitch the blood of
>> Christ Don Martin atheist Lagers,
>> porters and
>> ales from small
>> breweries
>> Preston G. Simpson agnostic Malted battery
>> acid
>> (a/k/a Coke)
>> The ONE, true fag! High balls! (what
>> else?) Lynda Bustilloz Christian/"catty bitch" Coffee,
>> high-octane Kath. Wintersnight Witch
>> coffee w\c&s, mead Thomas DelCano Pagan Pervert
>> Fresh Menstrual Blood Kevin McKenzie Tired
>> Snapple
SA> Styx Allum Chaotic Neutral Dr. Pepper
Martin Goldberg Atheistic Conservative Dark Roast. Hot and black
And since he's not here right now....
Martin Leipzig Geologic popsicle Corn Likker
--- msgedsq 2.1
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Staal also has great Ignorance of history
|Date: 22 Feb 96 04:30:11
EID:61f1 205623c0
MSGID: 1:271/460 312c3880
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29ee
Monday February 19 1996 15:35, Fredric Rice mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
FR>> Look at your own hatred, Ken, and note that the death
FR>> cult you joined has a history that fits you.
km>> I have no hatred Fred. And I have joined no death cult.
FR> You have basically joined the KKK and then demanded you're not a racist
FR> bigot.
No, Fred, I haven't or maybe you missed the part in the Bible that tells
us to love everybody? Maybe you have a hard time loving someone while not
liking what they are doing.
FR> You know what the history of the Christanic death cult is and what
FR> it continues to do to humanity around the world and yet you sit in the
FR> death cult and glibly demand you're not responsible for what the cult
does
FR> and stands for.
No, Fred I don't know the history of any Christanic death cult, I haven't
joined any such thing, how could I know anything about it. Oh, that's right
you still haven't told me the name of the church that committed the Inquistions,
Crusades and witch hunts have you? Post it or sit down and shut up.
Kenneth Mcabee
--- FMail 0.96â
* Origin: Maximum Overdrive Hampton, Va 804-838-6092 (1:271/460)
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Staal won't Drink it either, Ken
|Date: 22 Feb 96 04:33:12
EID:5bd7 20562420
MSGID: 1:271/460 312c3947
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29ef
Monday February 19 1996 15:36, Fredric Rice mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
FR>> You are not "temping" your deity constructs when it's _you_ who
fr>> are instructed by your very own mythologies to drink. We know
fr>> that you won't drink because you know you're a false Christian
fr>> -- you only pretend to believe and you try to excuse your lack
fr>> of belief as "temping" your deity constructs.
FR>> Either drink it or admit you're a fraud.
km>> Go read the Bible and tell me what Christ
km>> said when someone asked him for a sign?
FR> Go read your mythologies and tell me who lied when they claimed you
could
FR> drink up and not be harmed. You are trying to wiggle out of the fact
that
FR> YOU have been caught out as a false Christian who doesn't honestly
FR> believe.
What mythologies? I don't read mythologies, that must be the problem, you've
been reading the wrong book. You don't even know what a Christian is, how
could you recognize a false one?
FR> Either drink up or admit you're a fraud.
Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God.....
Kenneth Mcabee
--- FMail 0.96â
* Origin: Maximum Overdrive Hampton, Va 804-838-6092 (1:271/460)
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Staal probably also believes in McDowell
|Date: 22 Feb 96 04:37:13
EID:d4ce 205624a0
MSGID: 1:271/460 312c3a3a
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29f0
Monday February 19 1996 15:38, Fredric Rice mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
FR>>> And again David if God asked me to kill my son, I would see
FR>>> it as a sacrifice. Whether that is what is meant by you in
FR>>> the question or not. I would see it as such. - Kenneth Mcabee
FR> What utter evil the Christanic death cult is.
Where the admission that I would commit such an act Fred, come on, I'm still
waiting for it.....
FR>>> Witness why the Christanic death cult has the history it does.
km>>> Want to post the rest of it Fred?
FR>> That's all that needs to be said. Your willingness to murder your
fr>> own son when you start hearing voices in your head is why
fr>> Christianity has the history it does.
Where's it say that I am willing to murder my son Fred? Where's it say anything
about me hearing voices in my head for that matter? Huh? Come on Fred, post
the rest of it, or be debunked, sit down and shut up.
km>> Sorry Fredric, but nowhere in the statement above
km>> did I admit that I would sacrifice my own Son.
FR> Yet further admission that you're a fraud. Either admit that you're
fully
FR> willing to murder your own children else admit that you're only pretending
FR> to be a death cultist.
That's what the original discussion where you got that quote from came from
Fred. God would not ask me to murder my own children. Any such request would
not come from my God. Why? Because he sent his Son to die as the final sacrifice.
And BTW Fred, I have never pretended to be a death cultist. Now either post
the whole message you took the quote from, to prove what else I said in
it, or shut up.
Kenneth Mcabee
--- FMail 0.96â
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Staal and Ken: Hitler wannabees
|Date: 22 Feb 96 04:41:14
EID:635c 20562520
MSGID: 1:271/460 312c3a8e
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29f1
Monday February 19 1996 15:39, Fredric Rice mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
FR>> You end up knowing that Adolf Hitler did exactly what Christianity
has
FR>> done to innocent people for the past 2,000 years. You know what the
FR>> history of the Christanic death cult has been and you know that Adolf
FR>> Hitler was simply one Christian among millions who did exactly what
FR>> Christianity is designed to foment.
km>> Shows how much you really know Fred
FR> Which is why I'm intellectually superior to you. }:-}
Apparantly not, you keep seeing things that are there.
FR> Hitler was a Christian, Ken, sanctioned by nearly _all_ of European
FR> Christianity. Get over it.
Which church was it that sanctioned him Fred? BTW you don't know what a
Christian is, a true Christian can see right through Hitler's ploy.......
Kenneth Mcabee
--- FMail 0.96â
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Staal and Ken: Homophobic bigots
|Date: 22 Feb 96 04:42:15
EID:7714 20562540
MSGID: 1:271/460 312c3b0e
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29f2
Monday February 19 1996 15:40, Fredric Rice mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
fR>>>>>> I am condemning no one. The homosexual who sexually practices
FR>>>>>> his homosexuality condemns himself." - Jim Staal
FR>>>>>> Are you just a liar or are you a liar for Jesus?
js>>>>>> What has the above post to do with hatred and bigotry?
FR>>>>> Perhaps your inability to see your own hatred and bigotry is
FR>>>>> what your problem is. Certainly it's why the Christanic
FR>>>>> death cult has the history it does.
km>>>>> Wait a minute Fred, tell me exactly where
km>>>>> does he say that he hates them?
FR>> And even when I prove to you that your fellow Christian hates Jews
you
FR>> _still_ want to pretend that Christanic hatred expressed by Staal and
FR>> yourself is justified.
km>> Sorry Fred, you've yet to prove that my fellow Christians hated Jews.
FR> I posted a lengthy speech from your fellow Christian Adolf Hitler where
he
FR> expresses the same hatred of Jews as you express of homosexuals.
Hitler was not "fellow Christian", Hitler did not follow Christ, in order
to be a Christian one has to follow Christ, not just make a fancy speech
saying that they are a Christian. Sit down Fred your debunked.
FR> Care to have your nose rubbed into the hurtful truth again?
You've yet to rub my nose in anything Fred, your's however should be getting
sore by now. Or maybe you like to give us the name of the church?
Kenneth Mcabee
--- FMail 0.96â
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Staal and Ken: Homophobic bigots
|Date: 22 Feb 96 04:44:16
EID:7714 20562580
MSGID: 1:271/460 312c3b62
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29f3
Monday February 19 1996 15:42, Fredric Rice mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
FR>> bet you a buck you continue to make the same death cultist mistake.
km>> Can't, don't belong to a death cult.
FR> Perhaps you don't know the history of the Christanic death cult. I
wonder
FR> if I should suggest some history text books for your education.
Naw, just tell me the name of the church, that will settle this debate once
and for all.
km>>> Then why Fred if Hitler did not hate the Jews,
km>>> did he try to wipe them out?
FR>> He did hate Jews, just as homophobic bigots like you hate fags. And
FR>> people like you used to murder gays and would love to start up again
fr>> today if they could, just like your fellow Christian Adolf Hitler.
km>> I don't hate fags.
FR> Sure you do, Ken, and you use your death cult fictional constructs to
FR> justify your hatred. Like any fascist you demand that you love them
and
FR> hate the "sin" of homosexuality never mind that "sin" is a fictional
FR> artifact of your death cult.
Fred I don't belong to any death cult....
Kenneth Mcabee
--- FMail 0.96â
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Staal and Ken: Homophobic bigots
|Date: 22 Feb 96 04:46:17
EID:7714 205625c0
MSGID: 1:271/460 312c3baa
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190f29f4
Monday February 19 1996 15:44, Fredric Rice mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
FR>> Drink up, Ken, and do the world a small favor.
km>> You place so much trust in it, you drink up.
FR> I understand the physics and a bit of the biology involved in the drinking
FR> of metabolic poisons so I know that your own mythologies prove themselves
FR> a fraud.
FR> And your lack of faith and courage needed to drink up also proves you
a
FR> fraud.
Have you forgotten? Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God.
Kenneth Mcabee
--- FMail 0.96â
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: Hello!
|Date: 22 Feb 96 04:47:18
EID:5594 205625e0
MSGID: 1:271/460 312c3e8a
REPLY: 1:123/67 3129a6e7
Tuesday February 20 1996 10:38, Shelby Sherman mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
KM>> That's one of the points I've been trying to make. I might not be
KM>> able to prove to you that God exist (because you don't except the
KM>> Bible as evidence)
SS> Why should he? Real evidence points to a conclusion, regardless of
the
SS> attitudes or beliefs of those viewing the evidence.
Conclusion? Rev 20:15 "And whosoever was not found written in the book of
live was cast into the lake of fire." How's that?
SS> The bible is merely
SS> a written work that includes the history and the history of the religion
SS> of some primitive animal herders in the middle east. Do you consider
SS> Bullfinch's Mythology to be evidence of the existence of Zeus?
I don't believe in myths....
KM>> but it cannot be proven to me that he does not
KM>> exist. If it cannot be proven to me that he does not exist,
SS> [Egad, not this again]
You want to continue? Understand this, unless it can be proven to me that
God does not exist, I will not stop believing.
KM>> I have no
KM>> reason to stop believing in him,
SS> You have no reason to stop believing in the Easter Bunny either, do
SS> you?
Sure I do, he doesn't show up at my house.
KM>> and yes, I understand that you,
KM>> without evidence, have no reason to start believing in him. I also
KM>> believe that unless you believe the Bible, that you cannot believe
at
KM>> all, because belief in God starts with the scriptures.
SS> This is circular reasoning. Why don't you believe in The Cosmic Star
SS> Goat?
Because the star goat is not God. You can call it circular reason all you
want. I don't care what you call it, it still stands. According to the scriptures
that I believe in, if you will not believe them, you will not believe. What's
so circular about that?
SS> The Cosmic Star Goat (The one and only True God) sent his son, Billy,
to
SS> die on the Wholly B-B-Q Pit for our sins. If you do not BELIEVE in
Billy,
SS> you will be eaten on Judgment Day by The Cosmic Star Goat, to stew in
the
SS> Wholly Bile for all of eternity.
SS> You can avoid this eternity of punishment by being bathed in the Wholly
SS> Piss of The Cosmic Star Goat and having all of your SINS washed away.
SS> This Cosmic TRUTH is based on faith which is my EVIDENCE of the existence
SS> of the Cosmic Star Goat and his son, Billy. This FAITH is EVIDENCE
for me
SS> but not for you, since you must first BELIEVE in The Cosmic Star Goat
for
SS> the EVIDENCE to be revealed to you.
SS> Since you cannot PROVE that The Cosmic Star Goat does not exist, you
must
SS> consider the possibility that she does exist, and therefore The Cosmic
SS> Star Goat does exist for all who will BELIEVE in hir.
SS> BELIEF does impact EXISTENCE and all you have to do is to BELIEVE in
The
SS> Cosmic Star Goat and she will exist.
SS> Does this sound familar?
Galations 6:7 "Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man
soweth, that shall he also reap."
KM>> Once you start
KM>> believing the scriptures, then you might find other evidence as well,
SS> The defense rests.
Ok Shelby, tell me, where did you learn of the star goat?
Kenneth Mcabee
--- FMail 0.96â
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: apostate
|Date: 22 Feb 96 04:59:19
EID:88f5 20562760
MSGID: 1:271/460 312c3f30
REPLY: 1:207/212 a9ce8ab4
Tuesday February 20 1996 19:33, Karen Davis mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
KD>> And God can't send "his" word simultaneously to everywhere there are
KD>> people to combat this?
KM>> That's why he told us to "Go into the world and preach the Gospel".
KD> Why didn't HE just arrange for it to be done without his fallible
KD> humans? And a message so connected with the culture of the Middle
KD> East...
I'm not one to question why God did it this way or that way, I have no reason
to. But tell you what, you ask him when you meet him.
KM>> A lot of them were, tell me, how would you feel if the one that you
KM>> crucified arose from the grave? Would you face him? What would you
KM>> have written about it? Also while looking up the prophecies that you
KM>> think that Christ didn't fulfill, remember that we have not read all
KM>> that he said and did.
KD> They didn't crucify him.
Who did?
KD> Let me get with some of my Jewish correspondents and get a list of
KD> prophecies he didn't fulfill.
You expect me to believe someone that does not believe in Christ?
KD>> Why? Doesn't do us any good. Think of all the generations that died
KD>> without knowing your mythology...
KM>> Sorry, I don't spread mythology.
KD> That's what your Bible is. Period.
That's your opinion, PERIOD. Your opinion does not make it so.
Kenneth Mcabee
--- FMail 0.96â
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: REDACTED STORIES [1]
|Date: 22 Feb 96 05:02:20
EID:d007 20562840
MSGID: 1:271/460 312c4391
REPLY: 1:207/212 f8543cd4
Tuesday February 20 1996 19:35, Karen Davis mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
KM>> You haven't been in hell yet, you may think that you have, but you
KM>> haven't.
KD> Hell can't be worse than what I went through as a teenager.
"And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments....." (Luke 16:31)
"..... and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Rev 20:10)
I wouldn't be so sure about that....
KM>> You don't beleive in it, I do. Christ said that it exists, it is also
KM>> cast into the lake of fire in Revelation, now how could it be cast
KM>> into the lake of fire if it does not exist?
KD> How can Bilbo Baggins have stolen the arkenstone from Smaug if he didn't
KD> exist?
KD> How could King Arthur have received the sword from the strange woman
KD> lying in a pond [which is no basis for a system of government :)] if
it
KD> didn't exist?
KD> It's called fiction, Ken.
That's your problem, you believe the Bible is fiction.
KD>> I don't care to meet him.
KM>> You won't have any choice.
KD> Wait a minute - he's going to meet me before he sends me to hell? Kewl.
Revelation 20:11-15" And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;
and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book
of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written
in the books, according to thier works. And the see gave up the dead which
were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead whcih were in them:
and they were judged every man according to thier works. And death and hell
were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever
was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
I don't know about hell, but you will meet him before you end up in the
lake of fire.
KD>> It's god's problem to convince me.
KM>> No, it's not.
KD> Huh? He wants me to worship him and believe in him, and follow his laws,
KD> but isn't willing to take the trouble to demonstrate his EXISTENCE?
He left us the scriptures, that's what you expected to believe.
KM>> Not less, your role is different, but not less.
KD> Separate but equal is not equal. And if I am subordinate to him, I am
KD> less. Period.
KD>> But they're not sinning except for not singing his praises. People
KM>> like
KD>> me.
KM>> You've never sinned?
KD> Let's see... of the big 10, other than the ones which require worship
of
KD> him...
Sin is not based on just he "big 10".
KD> I haven't stolen since I was of a responsible age.
KD> I am completely faithful to my husband.
KD> I have not knowingly accused someone of a crime that they didn't commit.
KD> I recognize the difference between wishing for something LIKE my
KD> neighbor's and striving for it, and wishing for THAT EXACT ITEM. I have
KD> never committed the latter, ever in my memory, or at least since I
KD> reached a resonsible age.
KD> Other than stating the truth about how I was treated by my parents,
I
KD> treat them well.
KD> I have never killed a human being. Not even in self defense.
Disobediance is sin, every drive over the speed limit?
Christ said if you lust in your heart you've already committed the sin.
Put all these aside, the scriptures teach us that all have sinned.
KM> KM>>> Learing about the Bible is not worshipping.
KD>> You need to get together that often to study your mythology?
KM>> I don't study any mythology.
KD> Shame... all culture's mythologies are fascinating, including our own.
KM>> No, I have not been given a higher status, never seen anywhere at all
KM>> in the Bible where it says I've been given a higher status.
KD> Huh? Men being the head of the house isn't a higher status?
Not to me.
KD>> I need evidence. If he put me in this jail, such a horrible jail that
KM>> it
KD>> was a PUNISHMENT for Adam and Eve, then he deserves not a single
KM>> thanks
KD>> for happening to leave the necessities of life around.
KM>> The Bible is the evidence, ask Preston...
KD> Speak to my point. If this is a prison, why am I not justified in being
KD> angry at being kept here permanently?
This is not a prison to start with......
KM>> That doesn't change what I do.
KD> Oh yes... you'd thank a jailor for the food.
Why not? Does it kill you to be polite?
KM>> His Word is his evidence.
KD> Then give me evidence that it is his word.
"Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God."
KM>> Really? The small group in the middle east turned thier back on him
KM>> and crucified him remember?
KD> If he had fulfilled all their prophecies, why weren't they all
KD> convinced?
Wasn't a matter of being convinced. Even Pilot could not find anything wrong
with what Christ said or did. That is why he wrote what he did above Christ
on the cross. They were threatened by Christ, he was telling everyone how
things were suppose to be. They, like some here, tried to twist everything
around to use it against him. However, they were wrong, and plotted against
him.
KD>> I should be grateful and bow down to him for letting me live in a
KM>> world
KD>> that was a punishment to the first 2 people he created.
KM>> That was there fault not his.
KD> Speak to the point.
I did....
KD>> An all powerful god can't forgive us our sins without a sacrifice?
KM>> Forgive yes, but he has said that for sin there must be death, God
KM>> gave the first sacrifice and the last.
KD> For sin there must be death... fun god, there.
That's why he sent his Son to die for us. His Son having no sin in his own
life, could pay for our sins in just 3 days. After that, he had to be released
from death and hell, it could not hold him. Christ died so that we could
live, fun god? Maybe not, but he fixed the sins of the world, all one has
to do is to have faith in him..
KM>> God gave us the final sacrifice so that we would not have to, after
KM>> that sacrifice all he asks is that we believe.
KD> He asks too much.
To believe?
KM>> I'm have breath because I'm alive, who gave me the air?
KD> The plants.
Who created the plants?
KM>> I must be ok then, I don't accept any 2000+ year old mythology.
KD> Your Bible is that mythology.
No, it's not.
Kenneth Mcabee
--- FMail 0.96â
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: REDACTED STORIES [2]
|Date: 22 Feb 96 05:20:21
EID:d007 20562a80
MSGID: 1:271/460 312c4423
REPLY: 1:207/212 bab89f60
Tuesday February 20 1996 19:50, Karen Davis mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
KD>> OK, let's take this one step at a time - if she hurt me, who needs
to
KD>> make amends to whom?
KM>> I didn't make any statement about her hurting you did I? I said, if
KM>> she did not sin, she would not have abused you.
KD> First, speak to the point.
I do speak to the point, it's not my fault if you don't like my statements.
I spoke to the point made.
KD> Second - it occurs to me that her harm to me is not a sin by your god's
KD> book.
Based on what?
KM>> Really? I guess when that guy tried to run me over with his silver
KM>> nova because he wanted my girl-friend for his girl-friend, I didn't
KM>> see the destructive capabilities.
KD> This happened to you and you still claim jealousy isn't a character
KD> flaw? [sheesh!]
I don't consider emotions a flaw, how we handle those amount is the character
flaw. I've been jealous before, but I never tried to run anyone down with
a car because of it.
KD>> Why is he so hung up on being believed in?
KM>> Ask him when you meet him.
KD> If he gives me a good answer, I'll let you know. But he'll have to exist
KD> first.
Kenneth Mcabee
--- FMail 0.96â
* Origin: Maximum Overdrive Hampton, Va 804-838-6092 (1:271/460)
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Elliott Finesse
|Sub: Staal also has great
|Date: 22 Feb 96 05:23:22
EID:3955 20562ae0
MSGID: 1:271/460 312c4500
REPLY: 1:215/130 001492d3
Wednesday February 21 1996 18:52, Elliott Finesse mumbled to Kenneth McAbee:
>> Sure I was, maybe I should make myself a little more specific? Which
>> church conducted the Crusades, the Inquisitions and the witch hunts?
EF> Ken, at the time of the Crusades there was only one Christian church.
The
EF> Inquistion was conducted by the Catholic church. Witch hunts were a
mixed
EF> bag, church-wise. Did you have a point to make?
Elliott,
Point to make, yes I do. If you trace my church back to it's beginnings
you'll find that that same church persecuated many from faith or church.
No matter what church they belong to, anyone committing these kind of acts
are not Christians. To be a Christian means to be more Christ like, and
they were not being Christ like.
Kenneth Mcabee
--- FMail 0.96â
* Origin: Maximum Overdrive Hampton, Va 804-838-6092 (1:271/460)
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Elliott Finesse
|Sub: Staal probably also b
|Date: 22 Feb 96 05:26:23
EID:4e9c 20562b40
MSGID: 1:271/460 312c4663
REPLY: 1:215/130 001492db
Wednesday February 21 1996 18:52, Elliott Finesse mumbled to Kenneth McAbee:
>> Sorry Fredric, but nowhere in the statement above did I admit that
>> sacrifice my own Son. Only that if God asked me to kill my son that I
>> it as a sacrifice.
EF> That's damning enough, Ken. It isn't too surprising that you were unaware
EF> your admission demonstrates the situational ethics inherent in your
EF> religious dogma. To you and your ilk, murder can be bad or good, depending
EF> upon who does (or who "requests") it.
What Fred does not post is the rest of the message. The discussion with
David came about after David asked me if I would kill my son if God asked
me to. I told him that my God would not ask me to because that would be
a sacrifice and he himself had sent his Son to die as the final sacrifice.
The statement that Fred quotes comes out of that discussion. David kept
saying that he did not ask me about a sacrifice, and I told him that statement.
I never admitted that I would do such an act, which is what Fred keeps claiming.
I was telling David that my God would not ask me to do it.
EF> A "morality" that says "taking an innocent life is ok - if my God tells
me
EF> to" is no morality at all.
I never made that statement either.
EF> Don't you get it? An immoral act is immoral no matter who does it (or
EF> "requests" it).
Don't you get it, I never stated that I would do such and act, that is what
Fred is trying to get you to believe, but he's lieing. If he would bother
to post the rest of the message, you'de see that.
Kenneth Mcabee
--- FMail 0.96â
* Origin: Maximum Overdrive Hampton, Va 804-838-6092 (1:271/460)
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Elliott Finesse
|Sub: Staal and Ken: Hitler
|Date: 22 Feb 96 05:33:24
EID:7ceb 20562c20
MSGID: 1:271/460 312c46ce
REPLY: 1:215/130 001492e5
Wednesday February 21 1996 18:52, Elliott Finesse mumbled to Kenneth McAbee:
>> Shows how much you really know Fred, the church or faith that I fo
>> one that has been persecuted and killed by the so called Christians fo
EF> And just what "church or faith" might that be? Or would you prefer to
keep
EF> it a secret? After reading some of your posts I can understand why you
EF> might.
Elliott,
I have not problem telling you which one it is. Independent, Fundamental,
Premillennial, Bible Believing Baptist.
Kenneth Mcabee
--- FMail 0.96â
* Origin: Maximum Overdrive Hampton, Va 804-838-6092 (1:271/460)
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Elliott Finesse
|Sub: Staal and Ken: Homoph
|Date: 22 Feb 96 05:34:25
EID:7b1b 20562c40
MSGID: 1:271/460 312c4798
REPLY: 1:215/130 001492ee
Wednesday February 21 1996 18:52, Elliott Finesse mumbled to Kenneth McAbee:
>> Sorry Fred, you've yet to prove that my fellow Christians hated Jews.
>> meant Hitler, sorry, but no matter how much he claimed it, he was not
>> Christian.
EF> Perhaps not. But then neither was Moses. Do you believe that Moses was
a
EF> prophet of your god?
I was wondering how long it would take someone to realize that. Yes, I believe
that Moses was a prophet of my God.
>> I don't hate fags. And no I would not love to start murdering gays. If
>> murdered them they might not have a chance to get saved. And sorry aga
>> Hitler was not a fellow Christian of mine.
EF> Maybe, maybe not, but he _was_ raised as a Christian and was a fellow
EF> theist of yours, and seems to have had the same situational ethics as
you:
EF> "I believe today that I am acting in the sense of the almighty Creator.
By
EF> warding off the Jews, I am fighting for the Lords work." -- A. Hitler
EF> before the Reichstag 1939
No, you have the situaltional ethics all wrong. I explained that in an earlier
post. Your assuming the I accept that one can sacrifice someone for God.
I do not accept that, because today we have the Son of God, who was the
end of all sacrifices. I would never try to "ward off the Jews", they are
my Lord's chosen people, even if they have turned thier back on him.
Kenneth Mcabee
--- FMail 0.96â
* Origin: Maximum Overdrive Hampton, Va 804-838-6092 (1:271/460)
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|From: Pam Gray
|To: Boni Hitch
|Sub: Re: 325
|Date: 21 Feb 96 17:40:28
EID:0705 20558d00
MSGID: 1:2424/1004 1a91ea03
Boni,
I don't think he will but then you may never know... :)
BH> I'm giving it up for Lent...:-) I like "The King Of Dry"'s attitude
BH> towards it...check out ToxicNet and his reply to Prozac...
I will thanks!
BH> I can't see what the use is to read through 300 msgs and we can't
BH> respond! See Tagline...
Let's go elsewhere...
BH> þ SLMR 2.1a þ ...All stressed out and no one to choke!...
HEHEHEHE good one!
Take care,
Pam
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: |15Realm Of Darkness |07DemosúMusicúArtúCoding (1:2424/1004)
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|From: David Robins
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Quote
|Date: 22 Feb 96 05:12:57
EID:06fd 20562980
MSGID: 1:247/312.0 312cfa31
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a31
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.11+
___ Quoting Fredric Rice to All re Quote on 19 Feb 96 06:21:59
FR> Well godDan! HOLYSMOKE's got more ministers per square foot
FR> than even the most popular brothel in New Orleans. - David Rice
FR> ~*~ Evolution is likely ultimately from the devil, to misdirect
FR> people. - David Robins
Nice... you can take out the "likely" and change it to:
Evolution is ultimately from the devil, for if people believe that they
are
products of random chance they will never turn to God.
I like it.
Thanks very much :P
Dave
ú úùÄúÄù--Ä-ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ-Ä--ÄùÄúÄùú ú
Overlord - sysop: Death's Vortex @ 1-905-892-5619
Vortex WHQ - F'REQ "VORTEX" for product list.
ú úùÄúÄù--Ä-ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ-Ä--ÄùÄúÄùú ú
... Mary had a little lamb, some white wine, and a tossed salad.
--- No Walruses!
* Origin: Bloom County - Welland, Ontario >>(905) 732-9956<< (1:247/312)
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|From: Kenneth Mcabee
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Staal won't drink it either
|Date: 22 Feb 96 04:04:03
EID:5bd7 20562080
MSGID: 1:271/460 312c31b6
REPLY: 1:102/890.666@FidoNet 190a0a3c
Monday February 19 1996 12:12, Fredric Rice mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
DR>> You are therefore merely one god short of being atheist. What's
DR>> one more out of hundreds of thousands?
km>> There are no other gods.
FR> They all wont just simply disappear because you want them to, Ken.
That which does not exist, cannot disappear.
FR> Drink up.
Thou shall not tempt the Lord thy God.
Kenneth Mcabee
--- FMail 0.96â
* Origin: Maximum Overdrive Hampton, Va 804-838-6092 (1:271/460)
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