God Damned Fundies!
|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Mad
|Date: 03 Mar 96 17:56:38
EID:8a59 20638f00
MSGID: 1:352/266 313A3143
DM> Apart from the fact that I remember it in its comic book format,
DM> no.
There was a person by the name of Don Martin who figured significantly in
the development and production of Mad Magazine. I was almost hoping that
was you. Oh well.
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Get This...DIFFERENT DOES NOT EQUAL WRONG!! (1:352/266)
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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Big bird
|Date: 03 Mar 96 18:01:30
EID:f00b 20639020
MSGID: 1:352/266 313A3144
NS> confusing discrimination with discernment. A child needs to know
NS> how to tell and apple from an orange, especially if he's allergic.
NS> This is discernment. It is not the exact same as discrimination.
Actually, this was precisely the response I was hoping for. So many groups,
and viewpoints do NOT differentiate between these. I think it is to our
advantage to teach discernment without discrimination. Therefore... expose
people to everything that can be explored, then help them develop discernment
along lines of their own personal choices. Rather, we tend to try to "Yell"
discrimination whenever our choice isn't the most popular. A difficult line
to walk at times.
Thanks for jumping on this one. So.... how do we teach discernment without
censorship? Exposure to negatives as well as positives is valuable don't
you think?
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Get This...DIFFERENT DOES NOT EQUAL WRONG!! (1:352/266)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 271 380 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: George Rudzinski
|Sub: Light-bulb
|Date: 03 Mar 96 18:28:35
EID:226f 20639380
MSGID: 1:352/266 313A3145
GR> More like a new light bulb, un-screwed.
Giggle. My other half would assure you otherwise, but I hardly see that
is contributing to the conversation.
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Get This...DIFFERENT DOES NOT EQUAL WRONG!! (1:352/266)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 271 380 147/76 150/1 153/800 920
SEEN-BY: 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
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PATH: 352/266 600 138/380 146 270/101 218/801
|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Brad Jackson
|Sub: Let me guess
|Date: 03 Mar 96 18:45:09
EID:884b 206395a0
MSGID: 1:352/266 313A3146
BJ> keep people in their sins. Water baptism is the re-birth of Water
Wouldn't be Church of Christ would you?
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Get This...DIFFERENT DOES NOT EQUAL WRONG!! (1:352/266)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: OR MAYBE JUST SUGAR
|Date: 02 Mar 96 22:24:00
EID:2b3b 2062b300
-=> Quoting Michael Hardy to Judith Bandsma <=-
MH> You've sent me two posts of articles regarding the issue of whether
MH> gays should have special protection under the law. This is a
MH> legitimate issue to debate, and there may be valid arguments on both
MH> sides. Or perhaps one side is clearly and completely in the wrong.
And you missed the point of both of them. That being that what FoF regards
as 'special' rights are only those enjoyed by the rest of us every day.
Disapproval of a life-style is one thing, using it to deny a segment of
the
population the protections of the Bill of Rights and the Constitution is
another completely. When that happens, you can't call it anything BUT hate.
I give up, Mike. You continue to defend any and all indecencies perpetrated
and advocated by any and all groups that call themselves 'christian'. Call
me when they start on YOUR life-style. I'll be glad to bitch just as hard
about that. For now, I'm tired of knocking my head against the wall and
trying to make you take off your blinders.
When you call trying to take away a person's civil rights 'disapproval',
then I know that there is no hope that you will ever see what is going on
until it is too late.
... Tagline Deleted: Nothing funny about this shit.
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
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|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Boni Hitch
|Sub: 325
|Date: 02 Mar 96 22:36:00
EID:04c0 2062b480
-=> Quoting Boni Hitch to Pam Gray <=-
BH> Who are ya apologizing to? These messages ain't goin' nowhere!...:-)
BH>
Maybe the replies aren't getting back to you but we are seeing EVERY LAST
ONE of your little notes back and forth. That's my frustration for the day.
You will probably never see this one either...but at least I tried.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/19 97 200 803 911 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
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SEEN-BY: 7107/9
PATH: 372/911 200 270/101 218/801
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: OUR DAILY BREAD
|Date: 02 Mar 96 22:53:00
EID:3de3 2062b6a0
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to George Mooth <=-
MG> "O pardon me thou bleeding piece of Earth,
MG> That I am meek and gentle with these butchers.
MG> Thou are the ruins of the noblest man that ever lived in the tide of
And all this with NO typos. Did you scan it in, or are you ill?
... "Faith, begorra, and oy veh!" -- Irving McGregor, the Leprecohen
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
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SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/19 97 200 803 911 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
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PATH: 372/911 200 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Masochistic Maiden
|Sub: What bet?
|Date: 03 Mar 96 13:46:28
EID:6a94 20636dc0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6329c60a
REPLY: 1:352/266 3138CB5A
JH>> You owe me fifty dollars. Pay up.
MM> Nah, I don't remember setting up a wager with you.
There is no wager.
You owe me fifty dollars, just because.
Don't bother asking questions, or demanding evidence.
Just pay.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: 2 ALIEN AUTOPSY
|Date: 03 Mar 96 14:18:46
EID:0b06 20637240
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 632a2f58
REPLY: 1:105/40.666 d6b436d7
MB> I read something the other day regarding this bogus autopsy.
MB> Apparently, when they were asked about the film that was used,
MB> they sent just the trailer to be analyzed by experts.
It's even worse than that. (Gads... I need a point where I will
say ENOUGH of the Santilli film, this could go on for months.)
The film HAS NOT been analyzed. It was "dated" by a non-technical
Kodak representative by means of the edge-code (those
mysterious numbers actually mean something). Edge codes are
recycled every 20 years... the film in question could be from
1927, 1947, 1967 or 1987.
The Kodak employee who supplied the answer did not know he
was being used to launch a major hoax and will probably never
answer another technical question from the general public for
the rest of his life. Kodak HAS offered to chemically analyze
the film (they've requested sample frames that show the body
on the table), but Ray Santilli (the owner of the film) and
Bob Shell (his US representative) have been evasive. The exact
reason why they cant produce the original film changes from
month to month, I think the current claim is that Santilli is
acting as an agent for a wealthy collector and the originals
are no longer in his possession.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Cult Christianity
|Date: 03 Mar 96 15:00:06
EID:6817 20637800
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 632a6eeb
NS> Next week he'll suggest we all go out and adopt Serbs or
NS> something.
Thank you.... that just gave me a wicked idea.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: All
|Sub: Missing Child Alert - Satan
|Date: 03 Mar 96 15:00:43
EID:a324 20637800
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 632a7332
MISSING CHILD ALERT
)\ _.___._ /(
/:|'##666##'|:\ Name: Satan
/ __ __ \ Date of Birth: October 23, 4004 BC
: __~\ /~__ : Race: Mytholical
( ( .\ \|/ /. ) ) Hair: none
| \_~_) . (_~_/ | Eyes: red, glowing
(._ ~ /_\ ~ _.)
\\_._._._._// Last seen in the company of Jesus
\\V V V V// Christ, a convicted felon from
\\.^.^.// the middle east. Satan was wearing
(_____) red leotards with a matching cape.
Mr. Christ is reported to have been
"Have you seen me?" wearing a white bathrobe.
If you have any information regarding this missing demon or
of any missing sprite, imp, devil, demigod, seraphim or
magical being please call:
National Lost Cause Recovery Service at 1-800-GET-LOST.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Comminuion
|Date: 03 Mar 96 18:24:14
EID:2b58 20639300
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 632c62c8
JH>> Of course, it gave them a rather grotesque facination with
JH>> death. An obsession that persists in the contemporary
JH>> popular culture of Mexico. Mexicans are the most morbid
JH>> people on earth.
NS> My personal favorite is Dia De La Muerta. Someday, I want
NS> to be down in Mexico for some of the celebration. And they
NS> have a good grotesque folklore that I'm surprized that
NS> filmmakers haven't exploited up to now. Scary stuff.
It's not just the November 1st celebration, it permiates all
aspects of daily life. Take a look at a mexican tabloid
newspaper some time. It's not enough for them to report that
so-and-so hung themselves, THEY SHOW YOU in full color.
Crime scenes, autopsies, accidents and disasters are all
reported in gory, explicit, full color.
And yet... with all these dead (and often mutilated) bodies
being so graphically displayed, they will still black out the
nipples on a woman's breasts or airbrush a pair of panties on her.
The level of weirdness never ceases to amaze me.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: 2 ALIEN AUTOPSY
|Date: 03 Mar 96 18:34:58
EID:6c30 20639440
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 632c6926
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 89350EED
On Mar 01 20:30 96, Dan Ceppa of 1:350/401 wrote:
->> On 02-28-96 22:28, J.j. Hitt got back to John Brawley
->> Re: 2 ALIEN AUTOPSY
JH>> make an attempt to arrange the organs for demonstration
JH>> for the camera." Uthman also observed that there was no
JH>> body block, a basic
DC> J.j.
DC> Caught only this part of your post... Do you still happen
DC> to have part 1 on file?
I didn't split that message into parts. It must have happened
somewhere down the line.
DC> BTW, caught this in the same packet... Can I assume that
DC> this is the part 1 that I didn't get?
DC> "Alien Autopsy" - Blooper List
DC> "Alien Autopsy" Goofs - The Master List
Yes, that is how the message began.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: Waco Rememberance.1
|Date: 03 Mar 96 21:22:12
EID:61ea 2063aac0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 632e00db
REPLY: 1:382/804.0 1377eb46
TL> ROTFLMAO!!!!!! Well, I asked you to show us how much you
TL> know and you obliged. Wahahahahaahah!!!!!!!!!!!
There is something about this whole matter that puzzles me...
What do YOU think of David Koresh?
Not tank drivers.
Not BATF.
Not Janet Reno.
Not the First or Second Amendment.
But what is your opinion of David Koresh, his religious community
and their beliefs? I realize you probably see this as a civil
rights issue, but I can't believe that you can spend this much
time on this subject without forming an opinion about the man
and his claims.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Hardy
|Date: 03 Mar 96 21:40:02
EID:2393 2063ad00
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 632e188e
REPLY: 1:157/200 5d12065a
MH>>-- and then read J.J.'s "summary" of it.
KDM> I'd disagree. JJ sort of smashed everything together, but
KDM> it preserves what the source is saying.
I'd have made a great compression algorithm.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Alien
|Date: 03 Mar 96 22:08:23
EID:a6b4 2063b100
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 632e5c86
CETIANS - (or Tau Cetians). A human race of 'Mediterranean' or
'South American' appearing, tan-skinned humans. Very similar
to caucasian humans on Terra except for SLIGHT differences
(slightly pointed ears, higher physical 'density' for their
size, slightly broader nose, 5' 5" tall on average, and often
wear short 'Roman' or 'crew' style haircuts). Tau Ceti and
Epsilon Eridani are said to be a major 'convergence' of
exterran 'human' activity, and are alleged to be in alliance
with the Pleiadeans (who in turn, according to contactees, have
'Federation' alliances with the Vegans and the Ummites, etc.).
The Cetians allegedly work with the Pleiadeans and 'other'
societies who have been 'victimized' by the 'Grey' predators
(Evadamic).
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Alien
|Date: 03 Mar 96 23:56:24
EID:a6b4 2063bf00
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 632f5abb
Giant Spaceships Heading Towards Earth!
Exclusive to the Dixie Free Press
By Pat Parrinello
Recent light has been shed on the reason that the SETI (Search For
Extraterrestrial Intelligence) project has been cancelled by the
government. It seems that something was starting to happen.
According to my sources the government black project boys have taken
over some of the antennas and are now processing signals for the
exclusive use of the United States Navy. The government seems to be
highly upset that more than one very large object is fast approaching
Earth.
Speculation about just what these objects may be, range from Ark ships
that are coming to take away some people just before a cataclysmic
event strikes earth. Another speculation suggest that
we are about to be invaded and the peoples of Earth forced into
slave labor to mine certain rare elements. We may be plundered or
saved. Either way the near future is yet to unfold.
At the present time the object(s) are beyond the orbit of Pluto. It
is estimated that the objects are in the neighborhood of 150 miles
across by 30 to 50 miles wide. Not long ago a Russian Mars probe
photographed an object fitting this description just before it was
destroyed for unknown reasons. Later, an American Mars probe was
destroyed just before it reached that planet.
The people that were associated with SETI are in a unanimous opinion
that, yes, we are not alone in the universe. A few of those people
are now continuing SETI with private funding. However, reports
indicate that some antenna sites have been taken over by government
and those antennas in particular are heavily guarded.
It is reported that the US Navy in conjunction with the NSA are
attempting to keep the public unaware of what is going on. A few
people who are in the know are concerned that the Navy, as a first
line of defense may be attempting to convert the antennas for
military purposes. It is a fact that some frequencies in the
microwave band have been known to affect UFO's and destabilize
their propulsion systems. It stands to reason that such measures
may be true in light of Ronald Reagan's statements about the need
for the star wars program and his inference that we may soon have
to face something from "out there!"
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Alien
|Date: 04 Mar 96 01:39:00
EID:a6b4 20640ce0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63304d26
Dear Lightworkers,
I wish to comment on how the Zeta-Reticuli tend to get a
'bad-rap' overall such as alien abductions,etc. I have had
many communications with them during meditation and they
have always been helpful and guiding. I suppose like all
races/species that some are of the Light and some more
aligned to darkness. True Zeta-Reticuli are a species that are
very much aligned to the Light. It is the Zeta-like Greys that
tend to give them a bad reputation.
Igzel, a Zeta involved in the Star Command, that I often communicate
with, described the negative abductions as being carried out
by the Greys (a sub-species like the Zeta-Reticuli). Zeta-Reticuli
are involved in cloning hybrid bodies from human DNA and
Zeta-Reticuli DNA for the purpose of transition during the ascension
process. They take the approach of human DNA collection to be a
necessary task for ascension but strive to accomplish positive
experiences for the host of the DNA.
Zeta interdimensional spacecraft will beam up people as an
evacuation of the Earth. Everything from our Etheric body
up will be collected (our physical body being left behind)
and we will use the hybrid Zeta-human physical bodies as a
'shell' to adjust and transform to beings of Light until
the new dimension is fully prepared.
With Light,
Eiyasis :)
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: Re: Thumb-sucking Fundy
|Date: 04 Mar 96 03:09:44
EID:1330 20641920
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63311fb4
REPLY: 1:2424/1004 1e840118
JG> Well I believe Pat Robertson was a Marine, [...]
He was a bartender in Japan.
His daddy the senator made sure he didn't see combat
in Korea.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Hello!
|Date: 04 Mar 96 03:16:54
EID:e597 20641a00
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63313739
REPLY: 1:271/460 3136c33d
KM> That's your opinion not mine. MY opinion is if the Bible is
KM> wrong, then there is no God. Period, end of line, no more
KM> story. When I die I will be dead dead dead.
Why do you say this? If you were convinced that the Bible was
in error what makes you so sure that you wouldn't seek out some
other text that also claims a divine origin?
KM> But while I lived, regardless of whether God exist or not, I
KM> will have lived my life for something that I believed in, right
KM> or wrong.
Have you ever met anyone who claimed they were living their life
for something they didn't believe in?
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: REDACTED STORIES [1]
|Date: 04 Mar 96 03:25:12
EID:2fab 20641b20
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63314cda
REPLY: 1:271/460 3136c915
KM> The people in Revelation 20 that stand before God, did not all
KM> physically die, but the Bible calls them all "dead".
How do you know they didn't die?
Revelation
20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God;
and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which
is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those
things which were written in the books, according to their works.
20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death
and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were
judged every man according to their works.
Sounds like it's talking about dead people to me.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Alien
|Date: 04 Mar 96 04:52:31
EID:b17f 20642680
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63320d64
* Original To : all, 1:30873/2
* Original From: Harry Dicker, 88:7107/400.2
* Original Area: BAMA
* Original Date: Feb 21 22:19
* Forwarded on by J.J. Hitt of 1:106/9788.2
zum Beginn der Kontakte, jedoch durfte nicht offen daruber gesprochen werden,
wofur bestimmte Grunde gegeben waren, die jedoch keine offizielle Note
aufweisen. Der Abzug der Plejadier/Plejaren bedeutet nicht, dass die Kontakte
endgultig abgebrochen worden waren, sondern nur diejenigen offizieller Form,
denn die privaten bleiben weiterhin bestehen, jedoch nur sehr sporadisch.
Mit dem Abzug der Plejadier darf nun auch das Geheimnis geluftet werden,
dass
sie sich selbst nicht Plejadier, sondern Plejaren nennen, und zwar gemass
ihrem Sternensystem, das auch Plejaren genannt wird. Dieses liegt nicht
in
unserem Raum-Zeit-Gefuge, sondern in einem, das um einen Sekundenbruchteil
zu
unserem versetzt ist. Die Plejaren liegen jenseits des Plejaden-Sternhaufens,
wo ein Dimensionentor geschaffen wurde, durch das die Plejaren in die zwei
verschiedenen Raum-Zeit-Gefuge hin- und herwechselten.
Die Plejaden selbst resp. die Gestirne und Planeten des Plejaden-Sternhaufens,
sind in jeder Form unbewohnt und gar unbewohnbar, denn sie sind noch viel
zu
jung, als dass sich auf ihnen Leben bilden und etablieren konnte. Diese
Tatsache nimmt allen jenen Betrugern, Schwindlern und Lugnern den Wind aus
den
Segeln, die seit dem Bekanntwerden der Plejadier- resp. Plejaren-Kontakte
behaupten, dass sie mit Plejadiern in physischem oder telepathischen Kontakt
stunden, denn wahrheitlich gibt es keine Plejadier, sondern nur die Plejaren,
was eben aus dem Grunde wahrend der gesamten Kontaktzeit verschwiegen wurde,
um dadurch beim Abzug der Plejaren die Schwindler, Lugner, Scharlatane und
Betruger zu entlarven.
Mit dem Abzug der Plejaren ist auch die Zeit gekommen, um langfristige
Voraussagen fur die Erde und deren Menschheit freigeben zu durfen.
Diesbezuglich sind 23 engbeschriebene Schreibmaschinenseiten zusammengekommen,
die Voraussagen bis weit in die Zukunft enthalten und die auch Aussagen
daruber machen, dass unsere Sonne ein sterbendes Gestirn ist, dass die
Menschheit die Erde verlassen wird. Es ist darin aber auch die Vorgeschichte
der Erdenmenschheit enthalten, wie sie einst in den Sirius-Gebieten
genmanipuliert wurde, woher sie urursprunglich stammte, ehe die alten Lyraner
ins SOL-System und zur Erde kamen, und dass diese Gen-Manipulation wieder
ruckgangig gemacht wird usw. usf. Nach Moglichkeit werden gewisse Passagen
aus
diesen Voraussagen im 'Wassermann' veroffentlicht, jedoch bestimmt in einen
Semjase-Kontaktbericht verarbeitet. Wann dieser dann allerdings erscheinen
wird, das hangt von den Umstanden ab, wie schnell die weiteren Blocks
herausgegeben werden konnen. Im weiteren werden diese Voraussagen in die
Neuausgabe der Prophetien hineinverarbeitet, die gegenwartig neu uberarbeitet
werden, wonach sie dann voraussichtlich im Herbst 1996 neu und in
fadengebundener Buchform wieder erhaltlich sein werden.
Billy
Russland-Hilfe
Sehr oft wird gefragt, warum die F.I.G.U. gerade die Russlandhilfe betreibt
und eben nicht den Menschen im ehemaligen Jugoslawien hilft. Um diese Frage
einmal zu klaren sei folgendes gesagt: Erstens kann die F.I.G.U. nicht uberall
helfen, denn dazu reichen weder die sparlichen finanziellen Mittel, noch
ist
es der Zweck der Ubung, ausgerechnet dort zu helfen, wo kampfende Morder
und
Irre die Zivilbevolkerung abknallen und ausrauben und dadurch von helfenden
Gaben profitieren, wenn sie sich diese aneignen, wie dies ja in Ex-Jugoslawien
nachweisbar der Fall ist, wodurch die wild und wahllos umsichschiessenden
Irren wieder zu Lebensmitteln kommen, sich ernahren und weiter morden konnen.
Einmal ist es die eine Volkergruppe, die unter- oder obliegt, und ein andermal
die andere - und keine handelt anders oder besser, wenn sie die Oberhand
gewinnt; zweitens hilft die F.I.G.U. darum in Russland durch meine Initiative,
weil ich sehr genau weiss, dass dieses Land und dessen Menschen jene sind,
aus
denen der wirkliche Frieden fur viele Volker hervorgehen wird. Eine Tatsache,
die sich bereits mit Gorbatschows Glasnost und Perestroika zu bewahrheiten
begann und mit der Abschaffung des Kommunismus. Daruber schrieb schon 'der
schlafende Prophet, Edgar Cayce' folgende Worte:
"Aus Russlands Entwicklung wird der Welt grossere Hoffnung erwachsen. Dann
konnen derjenige und die Gruppe, die engere Verbindung haben zu Russland,
schrittweise Veranderungen und die endgultigen Festlegungen von Bedingungen
hinsichtlich der Weltherrschaft erreichen."
Diese Prophetie uberlegte ich mir reiflich und stellte Vorausberechnungen
an,
die mir die Worte von Edgar Cayce bestatigten. Folglich wandte ich mich
an
Ptaah und arbeitete diese Thematik mit ihm durch, in deren Folge er eigene
Nachforschungen fur die Zukunft unternahm, die ihn zum selben Resultat kommen
liessen, wie auch ich sie erarbeitet hatte. Also wurden wir uns einig, dass
eine uns mogliche Hilfe fur Russland sehr wohl angebracht sei, weil von
den
Menschen in diesem Land sehr viel fur den Frieden in der Zukunft getan werden
wird. Uns einig und ratig geworden, bemuhte sich Ptaah dann beim Hohen Rat
um
eine entsprechende Ratgebung, die dann ebenfalls positiv in unserem Sinne
ausfiel, folgedessen ich die Russland-Hilfe ins Leben rief. Gestartet wurde
diese dann in der Art, dass ich zuerst mit dem Kerngruppe-Mitglied Eva Bieri
auf eigene Rechnung Hilfspakete an eine mit Eva befreundete Familie in
Kurgan/Sibirien schickte, mit dem Ersuchen, uns auch Adressen bedurftiger
Personen zu nennen, die wir mit Lebensmitteln und Kleidern usw. versorgen
konnten. Nach einiger Zeit vermochten wir zwei die Russland-Hilfs- pakete
nicht mehr alleine finanziell zu verkraften, folgedessen ich alles der
Kerngruppe unterbreitete, die sich bereiterklarte, monatlich pro Person
einen kleinen Betrag beizusteuern. Und in weiterer Folge publizierten wir
dann
laufend Aufrufe im 'Wassermann', wodurch auch eine ganze Reihe von
Passiv-Mitgliedern fur die Russland-Hilfe zu spenden begann, wobei weder
sie
noch die Kerngruppe-Mitglieder wussten, welche wirklichen Beweggrunde mich
zu
dieser Russland-Hilfe veranlasst hatten. Mit der Zeit fanden sich auch
F.I.G.U.-Freunde, also Nichtmitglieder einer F.I.G.U.-Gruppe, die hilfreiche
Spenden gaben und dies auch noch bis heute tun, wofur wir alle von der
F.I.G.U. recht herzlich danken, und zwar allen, die uns diesbezuglich in
irgendeiner Form hilfreich sind. Und es ist uns auch ein Anliegen, allen
Spendern ganz herzlich zu danken im Namen aller jener Menschen in Russland
und
Lettland, die dank den Spenden weniger darben mussen und die von unseren
Hilfspaketen auch noch viele Waren abgeben an andere Bedurftige, denen wir
leider keine Hilfe zukommen lassen konnen, weil uns dafur einfach die notigen
Mittel fehlen, auch wenn wir stets grosse Betrage noch aus dem eigenen
Geldbeutel separat dazulegen.
Billy
Mithilfe
Brauchbare Artikel, Meldungen, Berichte usw. fur das F.I.G.U.-Bulletin werden
jederzeit gerne entgegengenommen. Jede vernunftige und brauchbare Mitarbeit
ist uns ebenso willkommen, wie auch jeder vernunftige und brauchbare Beitrag.
Gerne wurden wir auch etwas uber den Anklang des F.I.G.U.-Bulletins bei
der
Leserschaft erfahren, weshalb wir fur dementsprechende schriftliche
Beurteilungen dankbar sind.
Billy
UFOs - Strahlschiffe - Fliegende Untertassen
Im F.I.G.U.-Bulletin sollen auch die sogenannten UFOs resp. Strahlschiffe
resp. 'Fliegenden Untertassen' und damit zusammenhangende Fakten zur Sprache
kommen. Damit wird ein Thema aufgegriffen, uber das im 'Wassermann' eigentlich
nie viel berichtet wurde, das jedoch besonders in den letzten Jahren wieder
vermehrt aktuell geworden ist und dies auch weiterhin bleiben wird, und
zwar
in zunehmender Form. Dies bezieht sich jedoch nicht auf die angeblichen
Kontakte irgendwelcher Erdenmenschen, die religios-sektiererischen oder
sonstigen ideologischen und profit- sowie imageheischenden Machenschaften
eingeordnet sind, sondern auf echte Fakten und Vorkommnisse. Dies soll darum
so sein, weil die Plejadier bei ihrem Abzug darauf aufmerksam machten, dass
nun offiziell die Zeit gekommen sei, diesbezuglich von unserer Seite aus
offen
zu reden, die wir dafur verantwortlich sind, dass die UFO-Phanomene in den
letzten 20 Jahren offen zu diskutieren begonnen wurden und in aller Leute
Munde sowie in Zeitungen, Journalen, Radio, Veranstaltungen und im TV kamen.
Wie die Plejadier/Plejaren am 3. Feb. 1995 erklarten, war eine der
Hauptaufgaben der F.I.G.U. resp. von mir, Billy, eine weltweite Kontroverse
um
die UFOs auszulosen, damit endlich in aller Offenheit jeder Mensch mit diesem
wichtigen Thema konfrontiert werde. Ptaah erklarte hierzu folgendes:
Ptaah . Wir durfen daruber nur soweit etwas erklaren, dass unser Abzug von
der
Erde mit der kommenden Zeit und den damit verbundenen Geschehen zusammenhangt,
in die wir uns in keiner Form einmischen durfen und wodurch wir auch unser
Geheimnis unserer Kultur und Lebensraume schutzen und wahren mussen. Dies
hangt auch damit zusammen, dass sich seit Jahren Dinge tun, die einerseits
vorausgesehen wurden, und die andererseits auch eine Veranlassung fur unseren
Ruckzug sind (der schon beim Beginn der Kontakte vorbestimmt war), wobei
der
Zusammenhang dieser sich seit mehreren Jahrzehnten tuenden Dinge auf der
Erde
einer unserer Aufgabenbereiche war. Auch diese Aufgabe sowie alle andern,
die
uns oblagen, haben wir erfullt, wobei auch du (Billy) eine sehr wichtige
Rolle
gespielt hast in bezug auf das weltweite Bekanntmachen des sog. UFO-Phanomens,
wie dies die Erdenmenschen nennen. Durch dich allein war es moglich, diese
Thematik weltweit bekanntzumachen und zur Kontroverse zu fuhren, wodurch
nicht
nur Sektierer und Fanatiker religioser und pseudoesoterischer Form oder
Leichtglaubige und Irre sich damit beschaftigten, sondern nunmehr und schon
seit langerer Zeit auch die verschiedensten Wissenschaftler sowie Behorden,
Militars und Regierungen, die sich nun schon seit langem mit dieser Thematik
endlich sehr ernsthaft beschaftigen. Eine Tatsache, die nicht hatte erreicht
werden konnen ohne deine Hilfe und die grosse Arbeit, die damit fur dich
verbunden war. Dir allein ist es tatsachlich zu verdanken, dass die
weltumfassende UFO-Kontroverse in Gang gekommen ist und zum Erfolg gefuhrt
hat, wofur wir dir unseren allen Dank aussprechen, den du dir aber sehr
hart
erarbeiten musstest, wenn ich all der Ubel bedenke, die uber dich
hereingebrochen sind, sowohl in bezug auf deine Gesundheit als auch
hinsichtlich der Verleumdungen, Beschimpfungen, Mordanschlage und Hasstiraden
und vieles andere mehr, wobei auch wir leider einen Teil dazu beitragen
mussten, wie du weisst, weil sonst die UFO-Kontroverse niemals
zustandegekommen ware, wie auch nicht die Tatsache, dass sich die
Wissenschaftler und das Militar sowie die Regierungen usw. ausserst ernsthaft
damit zu beschaftigen begannen. Zu deiner Rechtfertigung darf ich heute
daruber offiziell sprechen und die Fakten dessen nennen, dass wir in
besonderer Weise die Film- und Photomontagen sowie die Trickaufnahmen aller
falschen und betrugerischen, angeblichen Kontaktler und UFO-Beobachter
genauestens analysiert und ausgewertet haben und feststellten, dass deren
gefalschtes Film- und Photomaterial bei den Erdenmenschen Anklang fand,
ganz
besonders bei sogenannten UFO-Fachleuten, die sich UFOlogen usw. nennen,
wozu
auch namhafte Wissenschaftler gehoren. Die Lacherlichkeit der Falschungen
und
der daran Glaubenden ist frappierend, doch waren sie ausserst wirksam. Dies
war der Grund fur uns, mit der wirklichen Existenz unserer Fluggerate
Manoverbewegungen durchzufuhren, wie z.B. ruckartige Pendelbewegungen und
bestimmte federnde Schwebebewegungen, die normalerweise nicht den normalen
Bewegungen und Flugtechniken unserer Fluggerate entsprechen, sondern den
lacherlichen Ruck-Pendelbewegungen und eigenartigen Schwingungen der
manipulierten Filme und Photos der UFO-Schwindler und -Lugner sowie
Scharlatane entsprechen. Und dass wir diese Art der Bewegungen wahlten,
liegt
eben in der Begrundung, dass gerade dadurch die weltweite und heftige
UFO-Kontroverse ausgelost wurde, was naturlich auch fur dich viele Nachteile
brachte, weil man dich des Schwindels und des Betruges oder der Scharlatanerie
sowie der Unredlichkeit bezichtigte sowie dir unterstellte, dass du Modelle
anfertigen und diese photographieren und filmen wurdest. Wir fuhlten deswegen
oft fur dich Leid, doch konnten wir alles nicht andern, denn nur durch das,
dass wir in der genannten Form bestimmte Flugmanover durchfuhrten, die du
filmen und photographieren und dann in der ganzen Welt verbreiten konntest,
war die weltweite UFO-Kontroverse gewahrleistet, die zum bereits gesagten
Resultat fuhrte und auch zukunftig noch weitere und bereits dringend gewordene
Resultate zeitigen wird. Es mag dir heute ein Trost sein, dass sich alles
nach
Wunsch und Hoffnung ergeben und erfullt hat und dass du heute die wichtigste
Person in Sachen Kontakte mit Ausserirdischen und in UFO-Belangen bist -
und
wohl auch die weltweit bekannteste diesbezugliche Personlichkeit. .
Soweit also der Ptaah-Bericht, woraus hervorgeht, dass eine neue Zeit
angebrochen ist, durch die wir von der F.I.G.U. kunftighin also uns mit
dem
'UFO-Phanomen' beschaftigen werden in unserem Bulletin. Dabei soll dann
auch
die Rede davon sein, dass Behorden, Militars und Geheimdienste sowie
Luftwaffenstellen usw. beste Kenntnisse uber diese Dinge besitzen und Fakten
verheimlichen, welche die Existenz ausserirdischer Intelligenzen und
UFO-Absturze auf der Erde beweisen, wie z.B. auch folgender Bericht erklart,
der auf einen Englander namens George Wingfield zuruckfuhrt, wobei die Fakten
allerdings noch nicht als echt erwiesen sind:
Brandneue Information
UFO-Absturz in Roswell, Neu Mexiko, anno 1947
Neu veroffentlichtes Filmdokument zeigt Ausserirdische des UFO-Absturzes
in
Roswell.
(Aus Transition 3000)
Wahrend einer Fernseh-Talkshow im Januar sagte Reg Presley, dass er kurzlich
einen Videofilm gesehen habe, von welchem es hiess, er sei in Roswell, New
Mexico, aufgenommen worden, und zwar nach dem Absturz einer Fliegenden
Untertasse im Juli 1947. Dieser Film zeigte anscheinend zwei Ausserirdische,
welche von Arzten 'bearbeitet' wurden, obwohl es nicht klar war, ob diese
lebend oder tot waren. Reg ist ein britischer Popmusiker, in den spaten
60ern
und 70ern bestbekannt als Mitglied der Troggs. Er ist in dieser Rolle noch
immer sehr aktiv, und eine Top-Single, welche er dannzumal geschrieben hatte,
'Love is all around', hatte kurzlich ein sensationelles Comeback, als sie
in
--- InMail 0.89c1
* Origin: Unknown, added by IOSmail (88:7107/400.2)
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Angels...
|Date: 04 Mar 96 05:00:58
EID:d109 20642800
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 633222e7
On Mar 01 12:52 96, Norbert Sykes of 1:203/289 wrote:
JH>> Relax... we're overdue for the next Mormon to pass
JH>> through. Should be here any day now.
JH>> They're always a lot of fun.
JH>> Some of them have even lasted for two or three weeks.
NS> << street>>> Ayup, the Tuesday Mormon is running a bit late I see .
Probably took a wrong turn at Planet Kolob.
They tend to do that a lot.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Pantheacon Stuff 1/4
|Date: 04 Mar 96 05:06:28
EID:9b01 206428c0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63324c25
NS> My pleasure. I'm those people too, at times, especially
NS> the Monster Truck Pagans, I suppose. At least, the MTP's
NS> seem the most appealing . . .
What I want to know is where do they think they are they going to
get the fuel for those trucks after The Big Fuck Up happens?
The Survivalist mentality has always amused me (it's an offshoot
of Mormon theology, so it's gauranteed to be weird in all it's
varients).
The folks who look forward to the colapse of society as some sort
of blessing need to take their rose colored glasses off and take a
good look at how life used to be in the days they are so fond of
romanticising about. Down here on the Gulf Coast, Yellow Fever used
to kill quite a few people. Remove the existing modern
infrastructure and it will return. And Cholera is always good for a
laugh or two. Typhus, anyone?
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Styx Allum
|To: Monty Arch
|Sub: Angels
|Date: 02 Mar 96 22:01:02
EID:8c62 2062b020
MSGID: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 1f1576f9
REPLY: 1:236/64 1f02742c
> I have a guardian angel that pulled me back from oncoming traffic,
> which I was stepping out from between parked cars.
Was it wearing pink lace and white slippers with lots of glitter?
---
* Origin: Mind bank - Your reality check just bounced. (1:152/20)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Boni Hitch
|Sub: 325
|Date: 03 Mar 96 07:30:24
EID:d94e 20633bc0
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 3139e80f
REPLY: 1:2424/1004 1e115f10
Boni Hitch said "325" to Pam Gray, adding:
PG>Well we could but we wouldn't have as much fun...
PG>BH> I'd LOVE to be able to bash stuff around HolySmoke but the messages
PG>BH> don't go and I got tired of typing for nothing. Jeez, we could go
the
PG>BH> "Religions" at RofD--but we don't really disagree...:-)
PG>Oh well I guess we just have to talk about something else elsewhere -
we bo
PG>could check out the other debating base! :)
BH> Avoid ToxicNet unless you're into no-moderator, "brutal"...
PG>Apologies for being off topic...
BH> Who are ya apologizing to? These messages ain't goin' nowhere!...:-)
BH>
This one made it to Maryland.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: Avoiding the Question
|Date: 03 Mar 96 08:05:40
EID:c520 206340a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 3139e810
REPLY: 1:2424/1004 1e840104
Jim Germiquet said "Avoiding the Question" to Don Martin, adding:
BJ> Look God has given you a chance to repent of your sins. I can
BJ> not help it if you don't want to follow God's message, laid down in
BJ> the Bible (KJV). So if you don't want to repent and be baptized you
BJ> and your sin are headed for Hell.
DM> Let us refresh your obviously tenuous memory. The
DM> question was "If god 'hates the sin but loves the sinner,
DM> how come he doesn't send the sin to hell and save the sinner
DM> whom he (supposedly) loves?" and NOT "What is the state of
JG> How about letting a "newbie" take a shot at this one.
A newbie who has apparently not taken the time to read very much
of this echo before officiously braying more than two dozen posts to
straighten out the various people here, thereby making a terrific
first impression.
JG> God does NOT send "anyone" to hell.
First things first. Got any non-Biblical evidence that the god
you so limit has any existence outside of human imagination? If so,
please present it: we can get to your character adjustments to the
diety later.
Oh, yeah, and lose the "quote" marks.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: Thumb-sucking Fundy
|Date: 03 Mar 96 07:48:48
EID:690f 20633e00
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 3139e811
REPLY: 1:2424/1004 1e840118
Jim Germiquet said "Thumb-sucking Fundy" to Elliott Finesse, adding:
EF> If one accepts the premise of the Biblical God, there can be no
EF> serious argument that his will had not been done. Taking his "share"
EF> of the virgins is just the topper. Believers don't dispute it Even
Pat
EF> Robertson, speaking specifically about Numbers 31, gives God full
EF> credit. I have a 700 club transcript of him discussing it in some
EF> detail. Naturally he leaves out the part about the virgins being
EF> spared [That's what a fundie would do].
EF> Well I hope that clears this up. I'll try to post the Robertson thing
EF> too.
JG> Well I believe Pat Robertson was a Marine,
As was Oliver North and John Wayne Bobbit: surely SOME of them
aren't assholes or felons. But then a service that preens itself on
its testerone-laden fantasies does tend to attract the unbalanced
types: brown shirt wannabees and latent heterosexuals.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Alan Hess
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: "No True Christian..."
|Date: 03 Mar 96 17:38:58
EID:727e 20638cc0
Whilst masticating on , Jim Germiquet (1:2424/1004)
wrote to Elliott Finesse:
JG> So a true Christian is one who says " I am not going to
The only true Christians would be ones who followed Original Testament law,
as Jesus did (up to and including the Last Seder.) The writers of Testament
II were thus not true Christians, as they stopped following certain laws
and observing the holidays, meaning they were not Christ-like.
--- MsgedSQB/2 3.30.02
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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|From: LES WILCOX
|To: GEORGE RUDZINSKI
|Sub: Who cares?
|Date: 03 Mar 96 05:07:54
EID:8a79 206328e0
MSGID: 1:147/48 41807e38
TID: GE 1.2
-> LW> Sorry. That was the Old Testament.
->
-> Les,
->
-> Mark 16:15-18.
->
-> Try the New Testament. I'll pour.
George
What does that have to do with anything?
Les
--- GEcho 1.20/WildCat!
* Origin: Down Country BBS Macomb, OK 405-333-2424 (1:147/48)
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|From: Jim Germiquet
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Re: lack of any Evidence
|Date: 03 Mar 96 12:00:57
EID:0c6b 20636000
MSGID: 1:2424/1004 200c5a0f
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Jim Germiquet <=-
JG> But who "defined" these laws? And who "defined" God ? Nothing exists
JG> that is not just a product of mans perception of what exist, based on
JG> his puny 5 senses which have already proven to be VERY limited indeed.
JG> WHo KNOW what if "anything" exists outside of what we can perceive with
JG> our limited senses, or if anything that we THINK exists really exists
JG> at all.
AS> True, but solipsism leads nowhere. It's mental masturbation. I
AS> assume the consistency of my experiences reflect a true reality out
AS> there, and proceed from there. It's an axiom, admittedly without any
AS> proof, but without which all action is meaningless.
While I pontificate on such matters. I certainly understand that I also
am bound to the perception of the world we have defined. However I hope
to be able to keep my paradigms flexible enough to be able to tap into
any ideas that might enable me to tap into any currently extra sensory
abilities that we may have lieing dormant within us. I believe the power
of faith is that ability that we are losing more and more as we rely on
our "technology" to accomplish what our prayers and belief in god had
provided in the past. Here is one of the ideas that came to me during
a response to a message.
TR> --+ Yes, there will always be people who choose to believe in a
TR> delusion: a lie believed to be truth or believed to be useful.
True. But tell me which you would rather believe in. A lie that gives
you hope and encourages you to act in a way that would uplift your
spirit and those around you.
Or a lie which would condemn you and put you down and make you
believe there is no hope and no reason to do things that are noble
and uplifting and beneficial ?
You see even a LIE can have beneficial effects if people believe it to
be true. In fact the belief in it will eventually make it become true
when people act on it .
WHAT A CONCEPT !!!
By BELIEVING in something and ACTING on it you make it a REALITY !!!
EUREKA !!!!
So then the only question is what do you believe in ? What do you
WANT to believe in ?
TR> --+ It's been a pleasure "speaking" with you, I enjoy bouncing ideas
TR> back and forth.
it is all good and well to "bounce these ideas around" but it means
NOTHING , NADA, ZILCH, if we do not put them into practice.
You can believe you have a disease, and you can believe that if you
go to the doctor he will tell you what the disease is and what medicine
to take. And you can believe that that medicine will cure you.
But if you do not get up and GO to the doctor and BUY the medicine and then
TAKE the medicine. It will all mean nothing! You will die and not even
know why just because you didn't bother to find out what the disease was
and take the medicine.
THAT is what religion is all about.
It is what you DO not just what you believe!
And what you do gives reality to what you believe.
... ebius tagline. This is a moebius tagline. This is a mo ...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: |15Realm Of Darkness |07DemosúMusicúArtúCoding (1:2424/1004)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: A LITTLE HELP FROM SP
|Date: 03 Mar 96 13:29:41
EID:fafc 20636ba0
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 9a22e9f8
REPLY: 1:2424/1004 1f84014c
On (02 Mar 96) Jim Germiquet wrote to Sue Armstrong...
-=> Quoting Sue Armstrong to Steve Wallis <=-
JG> Sorry it doesn't work that way. God is limited in his ability to help
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It's obvious you don't believe your god is omnipotent.
... Is it illegal to yell "MOVIE" in a crowded firehouse?
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Elliott Finesse
|Sub: Re: FOF "hate" 3
|Date: 02 Mar 96 20:12:00
EID:9677 2062a180
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8935438B
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Elliott Finesse to Michael Hardy <=-
>
> JB> using to kill babies and give condoms to kids.
> MH> It is inflammatory. It is also true.
EF> Ooooo, don't we feel all warm and toasty, wrapped in our smug
EF> self-righteous hypocracy?
Usually.
EF> Aren't we so superior?
No. *I* am, but "we" are not.
The above two responses are to be read with a great dose of sarcasm. I
am guilty of any number of failings, but hypocrisy -- or even
"hypocracy" -- is not one of them. Nor do I feel superior to anyone.
You will go a great deal farther with me if you discuss the matters on
which you feel I am wrong. I've been posting here long enough that I
simply don't bother with people who lead off with name-calling.
EF> Bullies and hypocrites are 2 of my least favorite folks, and you
EF> manage to wear both pairs of shoes here.
More name-calling.
EF> Defending your god in his
EF> Biblical orgies of genocidal slaughter, you got some nerve calling
EF> anyone a baby killer. You don't believe abortion murder, but you think
EF> you can gain some cheap shot advantage by such dishonest use of the
EF> language.
I haven't called anyone a baby-killer. I do believe abortion is wrong,
but whether it's as wrong as murder of a born person is a matter on
which I haven't made up my mind.
As for God, if you aren't smart enough to recognize the enormous
difference between Creator and created, you're probably beyond my help.
But I'll summarize: God created us with free will. Every individual
person chooses whether to seek God or not. None of us are perfect,
however -- all sin. We have committed treason against God. Rather than
condemning God for judging some, you should be praising him for saving
all who are willing to be saved.
God owes us nothing, yet gives us pardon and eternal life in paradise,
IF we choose to accept it on his terms.
EF> Killing babies? Dig a little deeper in your ideology and we find out
EF> that, you have nothing to support your contention that an embryo is
a
EF> person except your own desire to believe that it is. Isn't that nice
EF> that people that don't share your opinion are baby killers because
you
EF> choose to believe that they are.
Produce a quote where I have called anyone a baby-killer.
EF> Try Mike, try to picture the scene: 60,000 women and children, and
EF> babes in arms. All of their husbands, sons and brothers already killed
EF> before their eyes. All but the "little ones." The sound is unreal,
EF> nerve-wracking, moaning, crying children and mothers. Suddenly from
EF> the otherside of this huge group comes screaming - the sound of naked
EF> terror. Men - Moses army - have waded into the crowd, swinging crude
EF> broad swords. A mother holding a child is hacked from shoulder to
EF> chest, decapitating her child. The soldier doesn't wait for her to
EF> fall before he is swinging again at his next victim. No time to waste
EF> on making sure they are dead. They soon will be.Some try to run but
EF> there is no where to go. They fall on the ground, cringing, covering
EF> their babies in a futile attempt to protect them. They watch and wait
EF> as they see their neighbors hacked to pieces, the sounds of blades
EF> striking bone, blood flying everywhere, closer and closer they come.
EF> Soon you know it will be your turn ....
A vivid picture. Too bad it bears little resemblance to reality. The
people Moses's armies -- and later, Joshua's -- were sent to
exterminate were hardly the peace-loving rustics you depict. They
practiced human sacrifice, mutilation of women and other peace-loving
things. There is some archaeological evidence that the Canaanites would
sometimes bind the legs of a pregnant woman and leave her tied until
she and her baby died.
Picture a righteous God, enraged that people he created practice such
barbarism upon each other. But one small tribe is at least trying,
albeit imperfectly, to seek his will and follow it.
What's so unjust about giving them the land occupied by the others,
and punishing the others for the evil in the same action?
... There is no such thing as a stupid question. But yours comes close.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Masochistic Maiden
|Sub: Discussion
|Date: 02 Mar 96 20:29:00
EID:4e6a 2062a3a0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8935438C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Masochistic Maiden to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> Orthodox Christians all agree on the central issue of Christ's
MM> Uh.... define Orthodox In this setting. What would exclude a believer
MM> from being an Orthodox Christian?
Primarily, what I said: the truth of Christ's resurrection and it's
centrality.
Christianity was founded on three primary convictions: that Christ
has risen from the grave, that he was the embodiment of God in some
way, and that his action makes possible the free forgiveness of sin to
those who choose to follow God.
I'm comfortable accepting as a Christian anyone who affirms those three
points, even though I may disagree with them -- even seriously -- on
other issues.
MH> Did you ever seek out a less narrow expression of the faith? It's
MM> Actually, yes I looked into a number of faith expressions until I
MM> found what I'm comfortable with. I choose to not restrict myself to
the
MM> wisdom gained from a single religious pathway. There is useful
MM> information and philosophies in all faiths and I choose what I feel
MM> works in my life.
This pragmatic approach strikes me as more self-help than anything
else. But what works for you may not be the truth. I'm more interested
in discovering and believing the truth, even if it makes me
uncomfortable.
MM> Im some ways, that is what I did. I have no real problems with the
MM> basic teachings of Christ, but the methods used to spread this message,
MM> and the way it often becomes a way to control others, and develope a
MM> attitude of intolerance is very dissapointing to me.
Me too. But the fact that various followers of Christ have screwed up
doesn't invalidate the truth of Christ, and shouldn't be used as an
excuse to reject Christianity.
MM> Have you ever read the Blindmen of Istambul?
No, I haven't. What is it?
... This score just in: Deep Space 9, Babylon 5.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Tom Hart
|Sub: Allegory
|Date: 02 Mar 96 20:36:00
EID:4145 2062a480
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8935438D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Tom Hart to Michael Hardy <=-
MH@> ATHEIST: There's no evidence there was a global flood.
MH@> THEIST: I know. The story is probably meant as a parable. Or perhaps
MH@> there was a regional flood which was global from the perspective of
the
MH@> people of the time.
MH@> ATHEIST: Bu ... bu ... but it says it was global. You have to believe
MH@> it was global.
MH@> THEIST: Not at all. We recognize that not all the Bible is literal.
And
MH@> we recognize that the limited perspective of the people of the time
MH@> plays a role in some of the language used.
MH@> ATHEIST (near tears): But ... but ... it says global. YOU HAVE TO SAY
MH@> IT'S GLOBAL! PLEASE! I don't know any other way to argue! (Sobbing)
MH@> THEIST: Obviously, it's either a metaphor or a matter of perspective.
MH@> ATHEIST: SALAD BAR!!!
TH> Tell me, what is metaphor/perspective or not literal in your bible?
TH> If you do not know, aren't you guessing? If you do know, how do you
TH> know? Have you asked the author?
You can't know for certain. You can make *educated* guesses, though.
TH> It would be dishonest to say a part is not literal unless you know
TH> what the author ment. If religious text are to be reguarded as factual,
TH> why would you say part of it isn't factual?
Who says it's all to be regarded as factual? I don't know of
anyone who understands the Bible even a little who would claim
that there is no imagery or poetry in it. When the Bible says God will
hide someone "in the shadow of your wings," does it mean God has
literal, physical wings? Isn't it more likely that it's just meant to
be a figure of speech signifying cover and protection?
TH> I find that religious people will bend (or break) text meanings to
TH> fit their unevidenced beliefs. This is dishonest. So much for people
TH> of religion having morals.
OK. You seem pretty closed-minded about the whole thing, so let's just
not bother talking about it.
... Tagline sold separately.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Dave Oosterman
|Sub: fred
|Date: 02 Mar 96 20:40:00
EID:b305 2062a500
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8935438E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Dave Oosterman to Michael Hardy <=-
DO> Said what? :P BTW, thanks for the chat.
You're quite welcome. If you like the chat, I can also send you a dhog.
:)
... To laugh well is to live well.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Masochistic Maiden
|Sub: Ducks?
|Date: 03 Mar 96 09:24:00
EID:cd33 20634b00
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 8935438F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Masochistic Maiden to David Worrell <=-
DW> If these Christians/ducks were content to let others live their lives
DW> as they saw fit, you'd see a lot less rock throwing.
MM> That I strongly support! That NO faith should run others or inforce
MM> their views on others. I feel each person should make those choices
for
MM> themselves. If we spent more time trying to get our own lives and
MM> behavior as we choose it to be, there'd be a lot less time to spend
MM> pushing our views on others.
MM> I just want to make sure, that I do not echo the behavior of those
MM> that I can not approve of. I don't care, from which faith a person
MM> comes.... I admire those who respect others expression of faith, and
am
MM> disappointed when I run across those who scream "My way or the
MM> highway!"
If you strongly believe something is true, should you be restrained
from at least discussing it with people? I don't mean legislating
religious belief -- which can't be really done anyway -- but free
speech and open debate.
... "A person is a person, no matter how small." -- Dr. Seuss
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Masochistic Maiden
|Sub: Quotes
|Date: 03 Mar 96 09:29:00
EID:d30d 20634ba0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89354390
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Masochistic Maiden to Fredric Rice <=-
FR> HOW TO USE FEAR TO CONTROL THE IGNORANT
FR> Read: Adolph Hitler, in a speech delivered April 12, 1922
MM> I've been reading your postings of these little quotes. I would love
MM> to know it there is a book that has these quotes arranged in such a
MM> wonderfully obvious manner. If there is, I want a copy!
MM> I admire the patience you show. When I say I do not agree with the
MM> spreading of hate mongering under the name of religion, I'm referring
MM> to exactly this type of material. I think this type of response is
MM> much more effective than the name calling and attacks on character that
MM> I see so often.. Thanks.
There is nothing admirable about Fred. He's a firm believer in guilt by
association -- if Hitler hated Jews, and Hitler called himself a
Christian (although there's ample evidence he didn't really believe),
then all Christians hate Jews.
Fred is the real bigot here. He takes the extreme views of fringe
groups and insists they represent the mainstream.
He's not the only one, of course. Other anti-Christers think the same
way. Three anti-abortion activists have killed people. Never mind that
millions of pro-lifers are as appalled at that as anyone else, people
who think like Fred believe that three nuts is proof that pro-lifers
are violent.
... Be bold in what you stand for and careful who you fall for.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: A tale of 2 inerrantists
|Date: 03 Mar 96 18:30:00
EID:8431 206393c0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89354391
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Rick Mcfarlane to Michael Hardy <=-
RM> The part of the Bible you are discussing here was aimed at a wandering
RM> desert tribe that did not distinguish between bats and birds, and did
RM> not posess the vocabulary to make that distinction. Under the
RM> circumstances, the fact that the bible doesn't make such a distinction
RM> is pretty easy to understand, regardless of whether the author was a
RM> member of that tribe or the almighty Creator Himself.
MH> Exactly. Which is also why Genesis doesn't include a detailed
MH> description of evolutionary processes.
RM> Sure. That would have been a major waste of time - information that
RM> could not have been understood by the intended audience, and that did
RM> not need to be conveyed to fulfill the purpose at hand. It's supposed
RM> to be a spiritual, moral guide (and family history), not an
RM> encyclopedia.
RM> There are lots of examples of inaccuracies and contradictions in the
RM> Bible, but this one (along with my favourite - the pi=3.00 thing)
RM> really isn't one of them. Now, rabbits and cud, or Jesus ancestry,
or
RM> which was created first, men or plants, or ... like I said, there are
RM> lots of them.
MH> Interesting note, though -- the word translated "create" in Genesis
MH> one means to make out of nothing. The word translated "create" in
MH> Genesis 2 is a different Hebrew word which means to form out of
MH> existing material.
RM> I don't see how that makes a difference, Michael (if anything, it
RM> compounds the inconsistencies). It's the order that I was referring
RM> to as inconsistent.
RM> The birds make an even clearer case - they were made out of nothing
on
RM> day 5 in Gen. 1, with man coming on day 6 (note: it says that He made
RM> birds on day 5, not stuff out of which He would later form birds).
Yet
RM> in Gen. 2, we have God forming them from something else in the presence
RM> of man.
RM> So, the fact that the two chapters are inconsistent in the manner in
RM> which birds were first created doesn't do anything to mitigate the
RM> fact that they are also inconsistent on whether they were created
RM> before or after man.
*Does* Genesis 2 have God forming the animals in the presence of man?
Granted, the King James phrases it that way. But some modern
translations render it "God *had* made" the animals. That is, He made
them before man, but the account is just now mentioning them.
Every Hebrew reference I've consulted confirms that this is a natural
translation based on the Hebrew text, not a "bugfix."
As I see it, in Genesis 1, we have the grand theme of God's creating
the universe and all life. In Genesis 2 we have a closer look at God
creating humanity.
Of course, the account is not a substitute for a science text, and is
written to impart spiritual truths rather than scientific facts. Still,
I don't see a conflict between Genesis 1 and 2.
... ...... Click ... click ... click ... damn, out of taglines!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Flood
|Date: 03 Mar 96 19:21:00
EID:929d 20639aa0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89354392
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Norbert Sykes to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> SA> The people at Jonestown and Waco also suffered and died for what
MH> SA> they believed in, and they were contemporary to the leaders of
MH> SA> their groups. Just because someone lived at the same time,
MH> SA> Michael, does not mean that they are knowledgeable about what
MH> SA> has gone on in that time from someone else's perspective.
MH> The resurrection of Jesus was an EVENT!! It was not a claim, such as
MH> the claims made by Koresh or Jim Jones.
NS>
KDM> It is a *claim* of an event, Mike.
MH> And well-attested to by what evidence we have available -- mainly the
MH> fact that people who lived very close in time and space to the event
MH> believed it. That is, those most in a position to know it wasn't true
MH> believed it was true.
MH> The claims of Jones and Koresh, in contrast, are not even *claims* of
MH> events. They are claims, period.
NS> Are you saying that Jonestown and Waco didn't happen?
Here's your free clue for the day: What happened at Jonestown and Waco
doesn't require Jones and Koresh's claims to be true. Jesus's return
from the dead *does* depend on his claims being true.
Now don't waste any more of my time if you can't come up with something
better than what you had this time.
... Clip-clop..clip-clop....Clip-clop... (Amish drive-by shunning)
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: EVIDENCE
|Date: 03 Mar 96 18:43:00
EID:6c9d 20639560
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89354393
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Shelby Sherman to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> God has *always* gone to the ends of the universe -- beyond them,
MH> actually. The very first sentence of Genesis establishes that God
MH> exists outside of time and outside of space -- for he creates both.
SS> Genesis establishes nothing of the sort. Where is your evidence for
SS> all these wild-assed claims?
Er ... are you saying Genesis doesn't portray God that way? Or are you
saying that the fact Genesis portrays God that way doesn't mean it's
true?
If (1), yes it does. It describes God as creating the universe, which
encompasses space and time. Space and time don't exist until God make
them, therefore, God must be outside of both.
if (2), then . Yeah, yeah, yeah, it doesn't prove it's true.
However, the original point wasn't whether it's true but whether the
concept of God expands to conform to current knowledge, as someone else
had claimed. The point I was making was that God has been thought of as
bigger than the universe from the very beginning -- it's not a new idea
that developed as science progressed.
... I'm not as good a swimmer as I used to be, thanks to evolution.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Flood
|Date: 03 Mar 96 18:47:00
EID:de00 206395e0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89354394
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> And well-attested to by what evidence we have available -- mainly the
MH> fact that people who lived very close in time and space to the event
MH> believed it.
DC> Look at those last words *you* wrote, Mikey. Look at them hard.
DC> They "*believed* it." A belief does not fucking make it true, You
DC> should know that, as you don't believe in a global flood. Why
DC> don't you BELIEVE in that, as others have and do BELIEVE in it?
OK, I'll rephrase.
The resurrection of Jesus must have really happened, because people who
lived at the same time and in the same place knew it happened. And
anyone with an IQ over 20 -- which probably leaves you out, I know --
realizes that people who live at the time and place an event happens
know more about it than people 1,900+ years later thousands of miles
away.
Happy?
... Atheist reaching orgasm: "Oh chance! Oh random!!!! Yes!! Yes!!!"
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Dan Hunting
|Sub: Bible Verses
|Date: 03 Mar 96 19:15:00
EID:a79f 206399e0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89354395
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Dan Hunting to All <=-
DH> A good friend of mine recently converted to Christianity after many
DH> years of being a well-reasoned non believer. He has become quite
DH> interested in studying the Bible. Does anyone keep a list of
DH> contradictory, bizarre and genrally absurd Biblical quotes I could
DH> used to needle this fellow a little bit? I'm not really interested
in
DH> offending him, I'd just like a little more ammo when he starts of try
DH> to convert me! I know I have seen such a list somewhere before; I
DH> remember reading detailed instructions for the proper way to sell your
DH> daughter into slavery and also directions as to how to dispose of the
DH> bodies of your vanquished foes. Something like "cut their heads off
DH> and piss down their necks" as I recall.
Perhaps you should open your mind a bit. If a "well-reasoned non
believer" can become a Christian, perhaps there's more to it than you
realize.
How about giving him a fair chance to convert you? If there's nothing
to it, then you've nothing to lose. If there turns out to be more to it
than you realized, then you have much to gain.
... Behaviorial Research: Pulling habits out of rats.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: CPU PARTS
|Date: 03 Mar 96 00:16:58
EID:4db8 20630200
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 daf540d9
On (01 Mar 96) Judith Bandsma wrote to Damien Wellman...
JB> Al, if there's any of these parts that would make your life easier,
JB> let me know.
-=> Quoting Damien Wellman to Don Ward <=-
DW> price? What's next, a 2400 baud modem for $100?
JB> Nope...a guy here in Charleston advertising AOL disks for $1.00 each.
JB> Speaking of that, now that I have my new system...I have a 486sx
JB> motherboard with 4mb RAM, 2400/9600 fax modem (on the motherboard)
JB> plus a sound board, 2x CDROM, sound card....actually it's a whole
JB> system with the exception of a hard drive, monitor and keyboard. Think
JB> I could get $1500 for it?
If you find a buyer at that price, let me know. I have a bridge
I'm tryin to unloa....er, ah sell.
... #@$ffwe99fjaljk ... Hey! Get the cat off the keyboard!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: I'm working on it
|Date: 03 Mar 96 00:19:15
EID:666e 20630260
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 da08583c
On (01 Mar 96) Judith Bandsma wrote to George Rudzinski...
JB> I'm having to retype everything due to some glitches in this
JB> new system that won't allow me to restore backups created by
JB> the old one. Until I learn how to make the proper
JB> associations that will allow everything to work properly,
JB> retyping seems the shortest course.
JB> Yes, George, they installed Win95 on my new system. So far, I
JB> am not a happy camper, but am afraid of trashing everything
JB> else if I try to uninstall it.
I predict that once you get used to it, you'll never look back at
3.1(?).
Use your right mouse button a lot. Big Bill finally found a use
for it.
Some of the problem is these new gigabyte hard drives. It is just
soooo much tougher to find things when you've so many places to
look for 'em. And, the other problem is that you're not used to
the long filenames. If you do a bit of exploring on your HD,
you'll notice that there are subdirectories (folders in Win95
parlance) with names that contain a tilde (~). Those are
actually folders with long filenames. Generally speaking, there
are directories under the one you see. In any event, they are a
good place to look for those missing files.
... "Jesus was a nice guy...it's the fuckup followers I have a problem with."
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: David Johnston
|Sub: Atheist Hypocrisy
|Date: 03 Mar 96 00:32:15
EID:6171 20630400
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 195ce3a6
On (01 Mar 96) David Johnston wrote to Styx Allum...
-> >SA> That would mean double, right? >SA> I haven't seen atheists
-> claiming that the act of using shareware >SA> beyond cutoff date is
-> wrong. What I've seen is atheists pointing >SA> out that doing so is
-> a violation of the fundy commandment which >SA> deals with theft.
-> The only double standard is therefor, that of >SA> the fundy who
-> bootlegs.
DJ> I don't agree. The commandment is "Thou shalt not covet thy
DJ> neighbor's (stuff)". Using shareware without paying for it doesn't
DJ> violate that commandment any more than it violates the present laws.
DJ> You haven't taken anyone's possessions away from them. The Hebrews
DJ> didn't even have the concept of copyright.
There is a concept in modern society called "intellectual property."
That software belongs to the person who took the time to study a
computer language and program that particular program. When you
"buy" software, you are really only purchasing the right to use
somebody else's intellectual property, if you read the copyright
notice that is attached. The thought processes and actual code
used to produce the program are not sold to the purchaser, but
are retained by the programmer. Using those thought processes
without paying for their use is no different than using somebody's
car without their permission and saying that you haven't really
stolen it because you intend to bring it back in usable condition.
Does "thou shalt not steal" ring a bell with you? or do you
seriously see no ethical problem with stealing the time it
took the author to study the programming language, conceive
of the algorithm for the program, and do the actual programming?
No wonder christers are seriously ethically impaired. They
think that every possible permutation of every ethical concept
is found in the bible, instead of seeing the broad implications
of the Big Ten and going from there.
Maybe your conscience needs a wheelchair in order to get around.
... HolySmoke: A drive by shooting on the Information Superhighway.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Tithe = extortion
|Date: 03 Mar 96 00:42:01
EID:d4db 20630540
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 8fbb3dd5
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 89340E23
On (01 Mar 96) Dan Ceppa wrote to Marilyn Burge...
-> On 02-28-96 06:16, Marilyn Burge got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Trust me, I know. Had 2 priests that used to come over to our
DC> place and drink the hard stuff and beer 'till all hours of the
MB> They call those "boilermakers," Dan. I think they were conceived
MB> by somebody who just HAD to "prove" he was a "man."
DC> True, but they drank them differently... They drank all of the
DC> hard stuff first, then started on the beer!
As I recall, it was required that you down the hard stuff in
one belt, then do pretty much the same thing with the beer,
using it as a chaser.
... Justice without mercy is preferable to mercy without justice.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Dutkiewicz
|To: Preston Simpson
|Sub: dinosaurs?
|Date: 03 Mar 96 16:50:10
EID:bf97 20638640
MSGID: 1:236/20.0 313a1412
AG> Brother, they have carbon dated contemporary things to millions of
AG> years old. Just takle God at His Word.
PS>No, they haven't. C-14 dating is used on organic materials and never
for
PS>dates into the millions of years. They leave that to the uranium-lead
or
PSpotassium-argon methods.
Carbon-14 dating is used to date "recent" objects. Recent meaning no more
than
50,000 years.
As far as dating contemporary things, one does get false old ages. For example,
the grass near a highway always shows that its millions years old, when
one uses carbon 14 dating. This is due to the burning of fossil fuels which
contributes to a higher ratio of "old" carbon(14) dioxide to carbon-12 dioxide.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Brad Jackson
|To: All
|Sub: Bible
|Date: 01 Mar 96 11:50:28
EID:2126 20615e40
PID: ProBoard 2.12 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10376
Greetings!
The bible is inspired by God!
2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture given by [inspiration] of God, and
profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for
instruction in righteousness:
We don't have to look any further then this to find the truth.
Brad
... And now, some words of wisdom:
Life is like .......... an analogy.
--- PB2.12|FD2.12|FE1.45 [Regstrd]
* Origin: The Holo-Deck Hamilton Ont. Can. (905)578-5746 (1:244/108)
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|From: Brad Jackson
|To: All
|Sub: Heavenly Father
|Date: 01 Mar 96 11:51:44
EID:9fdd 20615e60
PID: ProBoard 2.12 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10376
Greetings!
God is a spirit. The creator of all things, and the father of
all humanity by creation.
John 4:24
God a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship in
spirit and in truth.
He is the first and the last, and besides him there is no God.
Isaiah 44:6
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of
hosts; I the first, and I the last; and beside me no God.
Isaiah 43:10
Ye my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have
chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I
he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after
me.
Look to God!
Brad
... And now, some words of wisdom:
Error #0001: COSMOS.CFG Corrupt. Reboot Universe (Y/N):
--- PB2.12|FD2.12|FE1.45 [Regstrd]
* Origin: The Holo-Deck Hamilton Ont. Can. (905)578-5746 (1:244/108)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
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PATH: 244/108 100 400 250/99 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Brad Jackson
|To: All
|Sub: Salvation
|Date: 01 Mar 96 11:52:53
EID:6cf3 20615e80
PID: ProBoard 2.12 J
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10376
Greetings!
What did the bible say, when it came to salvation?
Acts 2:36-41
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath
made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
{37} Now when they heard , they were pricked in their heart,
and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men
brethren, what shall we do? {38} Then Peter said unto them, Repent,
and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the
remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
{39} For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all
that are afar off, as many as the Lord our God shall call.
{40} And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying,
Save yourselves from this untoward generation. {41} Then they that
gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were
added about three thousand souls.
If this isn't enough proof for you Jesus also commanded us.
Mark 16:15-16
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the
gospel to every creature. {16} He that believeth and is baptized
shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Praise God!
Brad
... And now, some words of wisdom:
I think I think, therefore I think I am. I think.
--- PB2.12|FD2.12|FE1.45 [Regstrd]
* Origin: The Holo-Deck Hamilton Ont. Can. (905)578-5746 (1:244/108)
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PATH: 244/108 100 400 250/99 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Terry Liberty-Parker
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Waco rememberance
|Date: 03 Mar 96 12:22:31
EID:3ae1 206362c0
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 139d7b02
REPLY: 1:157/200 6302120d
Kevin D. Mckenzie wrote in a message to Terry Liberty-Parker:
KDM> TERRY LIBERTY-PARKER spoke thusly to KEVIN D.:
TL>TL>Waco Rememberance will start 1pm Saturday March 2, 1996 in Austin,
TL>TL>the Texas on south side of the Texas State Capital at 11th and
TL>TL>the Congress. Survivors of U.S. Govt assault of the Branch
TL>TL>Davidians near Waco will be joined by sympathizers and protestors.
TL>TL>At 3pm participants and sympathizers will gather at Hickory St
TL>TL>Grill at 8th and Congress. Contact Jeff Davis for info at
TL>TL>(512)331-9212.
TL> KDM> So, you gonna blow up another building?
TL>
TL>I didn't blow up any buildings and every Waco protestor that I know
TL>disaproves of that act. Now, a question for you.
KDM> Perhaps. Perhaps not.
TL>Are you able to post something in addition to your prejudice on this
TL>issue?
KDM> Prejudice? I just don't like *you*.
Since you don't actually know me you are demonstrating IGNORANT prejudice.
TL>I posted a quote from an Asoc Press with citation to found my claim
TL>that the tank drivers should be incicted; have their day in court.
KDM> Nope, sorry. The tank drivers were doing their duty.
There is NO legal 'duty' under the U.S. Constitution to follow an order
to run a tank thru a residence occupied by men, women and children. 'I
was just following orders' didn't work as a defence for Nazi soldiers at
the Nuremburg war crimes trials, and it is no defence for a U.S. Govt agent.
TL>Koresh is dead, but these killer govt agents work for us and are at still
TL>large.
KDM> At large? That's their job.
There is no Constitutionaly authorized 'job' description that includes running
tanks thru a residence occupied by men, women and children.
KDM> To keep paranoid fucks like you from hurting others.
Some of the kids we were supposed to be 'protecting' died because govt agents
followed unconstitutional orders to run tanks thru their home.
Can you get over your ignorant prejudice and discover your conscience?
ENJOY,
Terry
--- timEd 1.00+
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx [512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
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PATH: 382/804 91 92 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Terry Liberty-Parker
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Waco Rememberance
|Date: 03 Mar 96 12:42:31
EID:9175 20636540
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 139d7b03
Norbert Sykes wrote in a message to Terry Liberty-Parker:
NS> Terry Liberty-Parker > Fredric Rice : Waco Rememberance
TL> Don't you think we should do something about these govt tank drivers,
TL> our employees, who are still at large:
NS> Certainly. Give then counseling.
And do you think they should be exempt from manslaughter charges arising
from driving tanks thru a residence occuppied by men, women and children?
ENJOY,
Terry
--- timEd 1.00+
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx [512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
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PATH: 382/804 91 92 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Terry Liberty-Parker
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Waco rememberance
|Date: 03 Mar 96 12:49:53
EID:2618 20636620
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 139d7b04
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 6324ae60
J.J. Hitt wrote in a message to Terry Liberty-Parker:
JJH>> Looks like yer going to have shit for weather (cold with
JJH>> rain and a chance of sleet).
TL> Look again. Hi 60s and sunny. Texas, you know.
JJH> Yup... I had half a mind to attend (I rarely pass up an
JJH> excuse to go to Austin). But the weather scared me out of
JJH> it.
Catch ya on the next one. We had great weather, sunny and low 70s.
ENJOY,
Terry
--- timEd 1.00+
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx [512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
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PATH: 382/804 91 92 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Kenneth Cavness
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Re: Hi
|Date: 02 Mar 96 13:00:00
EID:368f 20626800
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 31389ab0
JH> KC> I'm sorry, but that's bullshit.
JH> Be that as it may, I'm not about to change the style of my messages
JH> just to suit your curiosity.
I didn't expect you to. As you are entitled to your opinion on the
matter, and are free to express it in this forum, I am as well. I did
so, and provided reasons to back that up.
I believe the whole point of this exercise is to point out that there
are definitely two points to this.
JH> KC> For example, I can only conceive of you on an intellectual
JH> KC> level.
JH> And there you miss the total beauty of this medium.
It has its advantages, yes, certainly. However, it also misses out
on the body language (in fact, why did you not address the disadvantages
I pointed out in my last message, JJ? I find that difficult to
understand). It misses out on inflection, and accent. It misses out on
everything in society that I tend to use. Sorry, it's a 21 year habit,
and I sort of like it.
JH> A message truly stands or falls solely on it's intellectual content.
What faerie tale are you living in? People still label and classify on
the intellectual level here. Someone advocates pleasure, it's
"hedonistic". Another person advocates welfare, they're a "leftist".
Physical attributes are the _least_ of our problems in society when
dealing with prejudice or discrimination. To assume that if one doesn
t know what you look like, or what attributes you have, your
arguments will be taken on intellectual value is incredibly naive.
JH> The age, sex, race, social position, economic level or ethnic
JH> heritage of the speaker is totaly immaterial here.
In _any_ debate, or expression of ideas, this should be the case. You're
arguing orthagonally to my original point, though: that the beauty of
this forum is not just that we debate, or express ideas, but that we do
it in a conversational manner. As such, societal behaviors, such as body
stance, inflection, etc give way to understanding colloquialisms (your
region), hardships (almost anything that isn't White Male Protestant, at
least in the South (of USA), etc.
I don't in the least feel guilty about wanting to know this. Your
last sentence below seems to be trying to make me feel some sort of
guilt.
JH> I present you (and the world at large) with my ideas and opinions.
JH> By those, and those alone, you may judge me. If you cant make such
JH> an assessment without first putting a label on the speaker then
JH> your judgement is neither fair nor accurate.
How is this different from in real life? And how on earth does it have
anything to do with curiosity?
JH> KC> I don't want to know what's in your pants, necessarily. I
JH> KC> want to know what you are.
JH> You want to label and classify.
Why do you assume this? Are you simply trying to be incendiary?
JH> I'm not interested in cooperating. I find pidgeonholes to be too
JH> confining to be comfortable.
Then I suggest you stop doing it with me, and right fast. I don't want
to "label and classify" you, and building up a straw man in that regard
will cause you to start arguing with yourself.
___
X SLMR 2.1a X "640K ought to be enough for anybody." (Bill Gates, 1981)
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx[512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
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|From: Kenneth Cavness
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Re: voting standards
|Date: 02 Mar 96 13:03:02
EID:1047 20626860
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 31389b66
DC>They are voting only for what they believ[e]. Worse, they are voting
DC>for what they have been taught to believe. It's "To hell with
DC>facts, we have the one true god!"
"Never let the facts get in the way of a good point!"
___
X SLMR 2.1a X "All my hidden skills are undiscovered." - Clinton
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx[512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
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|From: Kenneth Cavness
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Hi
|Date: 02 Mar 96 13:20:04
EID:368f 20626a80
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 31389f64
JH> I tell way too many war stories for that. But I've always
JH> taken great pleasure in playing games with those who are more
JH> curious than is good for them.
Which pegs you as maliciously manipulative. Sorry, but that's not a
quality I can understand people wanting to aspire to.
And, unless I'm reading you literally, how would "war stories" in any
way give any part of your physical being away?
___
X SLMR 2.1a X "Good morning!" is an opinion, not a greeting.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx[512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
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PATH: 382/804 91 92 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Kenneth Cavness
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: childish ignorance
|Date: 02 Mar 96 14:00:06
EID:c136 20627000
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 3138a8c6
JG> FR> ~*~ "And you have no proof that the Mutant Cosmic Star Goat (Braise
JG> FR> His Mane!!) didn't eat Yahweh, have Jesus for dessert, get really
JG> FR> bad gas, and now you worship a smelly methane cloud." -- Quentin
JG>If that is what you choose to believe, But do you REALLY believe that.
JG>Do you HONESTLY believe that. Do you have any logic or common sense
JG>REASON to believe that ?
Well, *duh*.
We have Grass on the Earth. That's proof enough for me -- it's right in
front of you. Why can't you see it?
___
X SLMR 2.1a X "Please return steward to original upright position"
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx[512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
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SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
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|From: Kenneth Cavness
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Christian blow jobs, Sta
|Date: 02 Mar 96 14:03:08
EID:4ce0 20627060
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 3138a97c
KM>Tuesday February 27 1996 05:24, Kenneth Cavness mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
KM> KM>> has given the final sacrifice, it is finished, no further sacrifice
is
KM> KM>> required. Kenneth Mcabee
KM> KC> So, while child sacrifice was hunky dory in the Old Testament, it's
not
KM> KC> okay now.
KM>If you read the account again you could see that Abraham
KM>never believed that he would actually have to sacrifice his
KM>child.
Then it was never a true test of Abraham's faith. Your god failed.
In fact, your god _did_ require that test of Abraham. Your god told a
man to kill his son. Then your god changed his mind.
KM> KC> Your god sure is mercurial.
Your god sure is mercurial.
KM>He sure is, praise the Lord.
That you cannot recognise the contradiction in this and in the rest of
the requisites for your god is very telling.
___
X SLMR 2.1a X "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" - Freud
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx[512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
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PATH: 382/804 91 92 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Kenneth Cavness
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 02 Mar 96 14:11:10
EID:422c 20627160
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 3138ab5e
AM>-=> Quoting David Worrell to Andrew Masten <=-
AM> DW> 23 Feb 96 09:47, Andrew Masten wrote to Dan Ceppa:
AM> AM> Evidence for fine tuning of universe.
AM> DW> This again?
AM> DW> Did you figure out all the parts that confused you?
AM> DW> Here, let's make sure you actually *understand* what you claim to
be
AM> DW> evidence, ok?
AM> If you understand it well enough to refute it, then do so.
[deletia]
Andrew, you do realise that in sidestepping his demand that you explain
how this is so, you are stuffing your credibility down the drain. It
makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about, and are
just blowing smoke out of your ass.
Is this the way you want to be viewed? If not, then explain.
___
X SLMR 2.1a X *IT IS* documented, look under "For Internal Use Only."
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx[512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
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|From: Kenneth Cavness
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Thumb-sucking Fundy
|Date: 02 Mar 96 14:15:12
EID:d0b1 206271e0
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 3138ac50
AM>-=> Quoting Kenneth Cavness to Andrew Masten <=-
AM> AM> ashamed to be apart of it. My life has meaning and direction. I
have
AM> KC> Do tell us. What meaning and direction do you have in your life,
that
AM> KC> we do not?
AM> I made that statement regarding myself exclusively, it was the lack
of
AM> direction I had, without reference to others.
Unless you were performing an act of mental masturbation, you had
a reason for stating that your life has meaning and direction. This
was in refutation to an atheist. You tried to imply that you had
meaning and direction in your life that atheists would not have.
So, do tell us. What meaning and direction do you have in your life,
that we do not?
___
X SLMR 2.1a X ......64..65...66...67...68...69... "STOP RIGHT THERE!"
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx[512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
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SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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PATH: 382/804 91 92 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Kenneth Cavness
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: He's Jealous! He's Crazy
|Date: 02 Mar 96 14:24:14
EID:d7ac 20627300
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 3138ae6e
KM>Tuesday February 27 1996 05:33, Kenneth Cavness mumbled to Kenneth Mcabee:
KM> KM>> Jealousy is not a problem, it's a natural emotion.
KM> KC> And people wonder why our society is sinking into oblivion...
KM>Kenneth,
Kenneth,
KM> I don't wonder I know...
Jeremiah was a bullfrog,
KM> As in the days of Noah...
'was a good friend of mine,
KM> As in the days of Lot....
Never understood a single word he said,
KM> 'nough said.
But we always had a might fine time, yeeees,
KM>Kenneth Mcabee
We always had a mighty fine time.
Kenneth Cavness
___
X SLMR 2.1a X 1 + 2 = 3; Therefore, 4 + 5 = 6. -- KennMath
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx[512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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|From: Kenneth Cavness
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Relative Stupidity
|Date: 02 Mar 96 14:31:16
EID:a62b 206273e0
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 3138b014
KM>Wednesday February 28 1996 05:06, George Rudzinski mumbled to Kenneth
Mcabee
KM>No I don't, just because I refuse to tempt God with your
KM>little test, does not mean that I call God a liar. Is there
KM>any example in the Bible of someone purposely drinking
KM>poison to prove that they were faithful?
Unless you are a literalist, this should serve.
Paul allowed himself to be bitten by a viper.
___
X SLMR 2.1a X 10 days and 18 messages later, "Oh I understand now"
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx[512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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|From: Kenneth Cavness
|To: Dawn Kleuser
|Sub: Angel Fundy
|Date: 02 Mar 96 14:38:18
EID:43c2 206274c0
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 3138b1ba
DK>argue! Let us simply have a nice, pleasant, honey-coated
DK>chat about Angels...(*LAUGHTER*) WHOA! SLOW DOWN! I can
Hrm. I hate quoting myself, but...
"Welcome to HolySmoke, Dawn! That sugar coating you now wear will soon
wear off. We're the Comet Cleanser of religion!"
Questor Thews, Kenneth Cavness, circa 1993
___
X SLMR 2.1a X 3 stages of sex: Tri-weekly, try weekly, try weakly.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx[512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
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|From: Kenneth Cavness
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Re: Blinded me with scien
|Date: 02 Mar 96 14:37:31
EID:55cb 206274a0
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 313a176e
Whilst sleeping soundly, Michael Hardy said to Kenneth Cavness:
-=> Quoting Kenneth Cavness to Michael Hardy <=-
JP> So we agree asking heathens for evidence is a waste of time. Yes ?
JP>
MH> Of course. Only theists have to actually back up their claims.
KC>
KC> On the specific, positivist claim that "There is a [gG]od", yes, they
KC> do.
KC> It's a very simple and very logical elementary debate rule.
MH> Many theists admit that there is no incontrovertible evidence for
MH> God. (As do I.)
Then you concede the debate immediately.
MH> And we observe that, while atheists often insist that
MH> they just want evidence, not proof, any evidence offered which is less
MH> than proof is dismissed. As one of my fellow theists put it, any
MH> evidence which is not incontrovertible is swiftly controverted.
If the "evidence" you provide is easily controvertable, then that's your
own fault. Something as big and awesome as a god shouldn't be so hard
for you to prove.
JP> [and it's fun watching them adamantly declare
JP> that atheist/heathens have no standards]
MH> And lately, deny that they admitted it. :D
KC> I wasn't aware that I had no standards. Thanks for letting me know.
MH> I wasn't talking about you.
I'm an atheist. You were pidgeonholing atheists. You were talking about
me.
MH> I wasn't even aware you existed until I downloaded this message
MH> packet.
That's the problem with stereotyping. You never know who might be
listening in.
MH> I was talking about the five on this echo who have admitted it.
Ignoring the fact that you're lying for a moment, you took five people's
dubious admission that they have no standards as a valid statistical
proof of your own belief that atheists have no standards?
MH> (And this is, in fact, an intentional exaggeration on my part --
MH> what they have admitted is that atheists claim no common
MH> standard, that morality is largely a matter of personal choice.
I see. So, while you are actually able to comprehend the nuance of their
response, you willfully "exaggerate" to prove your point.
It's called a straw man.
It's also called lying.
MH> They then ignore the logical consequences of taking such a view
MH> -- that under such an assumption, nothing can be called
MH> "wrong.")
Premise.
Get Kohlberg and Sartre. Read them all. Read them all the way through.
Take notes. Have a dictionary handy, and read each paragraph more than
once. Not because you're an idiot, or even of below average
intelligence, but because you'll most likely need it.
I really don't see how I can discuss things like this with you unless
you actually know my side of the debate without assuming things from me
or others that agree with me. Since you will obviously not believe
anything that we say, perhaps you'll believe those that have some
semblance of authority in the matter.
... "Mr. Worf, fire phasers at Michael" ... Zzzzzap!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx (512)462-1776 (1:382/804)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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|From: Kenneth Cavness
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Re: face value
|Date: 02 Mar 96 14:39:13
EID:4bc5 206274e0
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 313a176f
Whilst sleeping soundly, Michael Hardy said to Mimi Milstein:
MH> I don't think Christians suggest taking anything at face value.
MH> Examples?
The concept of God(tm), for one.
Christ's divinity, for another.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx (512)462-1776 (1:382/804)
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SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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|From: Kenneth Cavness
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Re: holysmoke pick yer po
|Date: 02 Mar 96 14:50:10
EID:886e 20627640
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 313a1770
Whilst sleeping soundly, Kevin D. Mckenzie said to Kenneth Cavness:
KDM> KENNETH CAVNESS spoke thusly to FREDRIC RICE:
KC> Whilst sleeping soundly, Fredric Rice said to Ryan Shaw:
KC> rs> Kevin McKenzie Tired Snapple
KC>
KC> FR> Fredric Rice Rabid atheist Diet Coke
KC>
KC>I should be so lucky...
KC>
KC>Kenneth G. Cavness Frothing atheist The One True
KC>Drink(tm)
KDM> I'll be damned. (No comments from the peanut gallery, please).
KDM> Welcome back, Ken.
It's great to be back, Kevin. =)
(why do I feel like a conference speaker?)
... Drop your carrier ... we have you surrounded!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx (512)462-1776 (1:382/804)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Busted Shitpipe-ism
|Date: 03 Mar 96 16:37:05
EID:656e 206384a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 313adc8c
Norbert Sykes said "Busted Shitpipe-ism" to Don Martin, adding:
DM> fundie shuffle around it. If you do not like the above
DM> answers, dream up one of your own: just remember to confine
DM> yourself to the question "If god 'hates the sin but loves
DM> the sinner, how come he doesn't send the sin to hell and
DM> save the sinner whom he (supposedly) loves?" and you cannot
DM> go far wrong. To do anything else is to go very wrong indeed.
DM> END QUOTE = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
NS> You're being too easy on him. Make it an essay exam, not multiple
NS> choice.
If it's essay, he's already flunked. As a kindly person with
the boy's best interests at heart (everyone here will tell you
this), I am trying to do the lad a favor. He has trouble focussing
on a point, and the multiple choice format assists in focussing. In
the unlikely event that he ever DOES answer the question, THEN he
may expatiate a bit and develop a reasoned justification for his
views in prose.
NS> I tell you, they are good workers, but you'll never be able to get
NS> them to understand spoken commands, like answer the question!
On another echo, someone who pays attention to nut cases says
that Louis Ferrakhan claims that he is the messiah and is ready to
take over the world. This is precisely the sort of Rapture that
these loons deserve.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Hi
|Date: 03 Mar 96 16:43:04
EID:bc24 20638560
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 313adc8d
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 6324a24c
J.J. Hitt said "Hi" to Don Martin, adding:
DM> Incidentally, I tried again to send netmail and had an "unknown
DM> node" message flash whilst the thing unpacked at the BBS (Alan
DM> Hess').
JH> Oh shit... did you notice if it was a regular "4D" address or
JH> a "Privatenet" address? (My privatenet address was/is 1:30872/2).
JH> I'm now set up for 4D and nothing else, but my BossNode may still
JH> be adding the other address to my outbound stuff.
It went by so fast that I was lucky to make out the "unknown
node" bit. However, I shall try again and set the capture log (if I
can get it to work on Procomm--I've used Telix for years and haven't
bothered to do much with the new program) and report the results.
DM> Can you send email to the address below?
JH> Will send a test message out with this packet.
DM> Or just call voice during the day at XXX-XXXX x XXX.
JH>
JH> Phone number noted for later use.
JH> (I just altered/edited a post... don't tell Staal or
JH> Hardy, they'll never shut up about it.)
Bloody good thing my number isn't 800-FUCK then, innit?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Masochistic Maiden
|Sub: Classrooms
|Date: 03 Mar 96 16:52:09
EID:d82b 20638680
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 313adc8e
REPLY: 1:352/266 3138CB5C
Masochistic Maiden said "Classrooms" to Judith Bandsma, adding:
JB> Unfortunately, the Religious Right IS trying to take over what is
JB> taughtin public schools so that it will adhere to THEIR dogma. Truth
JB> and factsbe damned.
MM> I know, and I find it frightening... however even if nothing of
MM> religion or beliefs is taught by the school, those topics are there
as
MM> the students voice their views to their peers.
Huzzah for them, say I. The fact that students talk about stuff
is the healthiest thing you could say about our schools. Students
are SUPPOSED to wonder, and discuss, and question, and BS each
other--that is what being a student is all about. Us WOAs only
object to religious stuff imposed upon them from above (especially
such WOAs as myself, who went through such impositions in public
schools back in the 50s).
MM> I sometimes feel that
MM> trying to control what one is exposed to is useless. As long as our
MM> world is filled with diveristy why not celebrate it?
The religious right does try to control what kids are exposed
to: vide the V chip. Exposure among peers, however, is more
conducive to accepting diversity.
JB> The ONLY way to do that is to keep ALL religion out of the forums
JB> that arepaid for by ALL taxpayers. It's the only thing that is fair
JB> and works.
MM> I agree, but since much of our cluture and tradition is an expression
MM> of someone's religious/mythological views it isn't easy. Hey, even
MM> Valentine's day has it's roots in religion,
In several. Besides what is done to poor Eros, born of
Aphrodite, have you ever wondered why Valentine hearts are shaped
very unlike real, functioning hearts? Or why arrows are used to
pierce them? One type of religious course WOAs support is
comparative religion, in which ALL mythos may be considered without
any one of them being labelled as THE TRVTH (and all the rest as the
work of Satan). There is much wisdom (and silliness) in all of them,
and much that helps us understand our fellow man. Such a course
would probably be firebombed by the local fundies, however.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Cult Christianity
|Date: 03 Mar 96 17:13:14
EID:8fbc 206389a0
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 313adc8f
Norbert Sykes said "Cult Christianity" to Robert Jackson, adding:
GR> About as rare as a black poster on Holysmoke, eh?
RJ> It almost seems as though you lay the blame on white people
RJ> for the apparent lack of black posters. Of course, the two
RJ> Muslims we had here in the last year never mentioned their
RJ> race (not that they stuck around that long). Perhaps the
RJ> issue of religion just isn't something black participants in
RJ> Fido are interested in. I've chatted with a handful of black
RJ> people on other echoes (including FLAME, which is the net's
RJ> haven for bigotry) and in spite of potentially religiously-
RJ> colored issues like abortion and politics, I really don't
RJ> remember religion being something that wormed its way into
RJ> the discussion.
NS> It's because George DOES want to imply that we're the reason no
NS> black posters (apparently) are around here.
RJ> I've asked the same question (not on the echo, but to myself),
RJ> but I don't see where this echo would be particularly unaccom-
RJ> odating to blacks. There are other echoes (FLAME and CONTROV,
RJ> to name two) which have deliberately racist people, and they
RJ> still draw black posters. I really don't think the problem
RJ> with representation is the fault of the echo.
NS> It's not. George just has to have something to blame on HolySmoke.
NS> I don't see him out beating the bushes for black volunteers to post
NS> here. And I certainly can't see him suggesting that we actually
NS> FORCE black people to post here, which would be tantamount to
NS> busing. Not being a white person myself, (I'm more a pinkish
NS> beige) I have a hard time understanding his problem. It was easier
NS> to pick up on when he wanted to put the pictures of all the lost
NS> children in the world here, thereby choking the traffic. When that
NS> didn't go over, he could justifyably believe that we condoned bad
NS> things happening to the kids, since we weren't (sic) doing anything
NS> about it. I think he should just be ignored.
NS> Next week he'll suggest we all go out and adopt Serbs or something.
I have been brooding a bit about this non-issue lately, finding
it somewhat offensive without knowing why. To me, one of the great
delights of this medium is that you deal directly with the person's
mind (or lack thereof) without having the foggiest notion of his
rrace, color, creed, gender, or whatever unless he/she chose to make
any of that stuff known. People who express themselves intelligently
tend to get thoughtful replies, fundies tend to get bashed, and all
is right with the world. Now comes George to fret about our failure
to meet some Affirmative Action quota on a criterion, skin color, we
cannot see. What is the point?
A witty guy named Tyler Wunder used to post here and his GIF is
available from Quarrella's board. He looks as though he may be a
black man; perhaps that will let us off the hook with George.
At the risk of being branded a racist, it seems to me that most
of the black people I know, whether or not religious, do not seem to
regard religion as an intellectual thing so much as an emotional
thing. I think that this may be part of black culture (and I am sure
that it is probably a great deal healthier than the more cerebral
approach followed by other cultures seeking "justification" for
their ways and days). In the old days, they were in an ideal
position to accept the comfort of an other world after this one, in
which they were well-positioned (because of their absolutely shitty
lives in this one) to enjoy the best seats. Nietzsche, among others,
noted the great appeal of Christianity to slaves on these very
grounds. The emphasis in the black services (admittedly few) that I
have seen is less on doctrine than upon feelings; both the horrors
of hell and the joys of salvation are emphasized not on the basis of
the word so much as on the basis of the worth of every individual in
the eyes of god.
This sort of notion does not lend itself to inquiry or argument;
I suspect that most of the black people I have known would regard
Holysmoke as boring--a lot of fuss over fine points that doesn't
feel very good.
The influence of the puritans on American culture is pernicious
and widespread. We atheists practice a form of Calvinism when we
attack fundies--it is very cerebral, and intellectually oriented. I
think you could say of Calvin that he offers a perfection
rationalization of the faith, and that that is both his great
strength and the greatest damage ever done to Christianity. The
happiest religions are probably the most non-intellectualized.
Black are very wise to simply enjoy the comforts of the faith
without worrying overmuch about its logical consequences or
presuppositions.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: "No True Christian..."
|Date: 03 Mar 96 17:43:25
EID:3abd 20638d60
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 313adc90
REPLY: 1:2424/1004 1f840148
Jim Germiquet said ""No True Christian..."" to Elliott Finesse, adding:
EF> Well I know it sounds logical, but it isn't. Why? Because by your
EF> definition, no Christian ever did an un-Christ-like act. Ever!
JG> Excuse me but if you will check the message you are replying to, you
JG> will see he is making a distinction between "true" christians and
JG> people who just "call themselves" christians.
Read the FAQ. One of the most tired, fatuous evasions we get
around here is the old "But he's not a real, TRUE Christian!"
What you say here is yet another iteration of that local joke.
The funny part of the joke is that anyone claiming such a thing
as being able to distinguish between real, TRUE Christians and
the fakes (as you would appear to do here) necessarily must know
what his god alone has the power of knowing--the sincerity of the
profession. Paul Hill claims to be doing God's work when he blows an
abortionist's brains out with a shotgun. You know otherwise?
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: Avoiding the Question
|Date: 03 Mar 96 05:48:43
EID:3096 20632e00
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 3139339d
REPLY: 1:2424/1004 1e840104
Do you fundies take a class in Stupid?
29 Feb 96 02:37, Jim Germiquet wrote to Don Martin:
DM>> Let us refresh your obviously tenuous memory. The
DM>> question was "If god 'hates the sin but loves the sinner,
DM>> how come he doesn't send the sin to hell and save the sinner
DM>> whom he (supposedly) loves?" and NOT "What is the state of
JG> How about letting a "newbie" take a shot at this one.
JG> God does NOT send "anyone" to hell.
Fine. I refuse to go to Hell. What is God going to do with me?
JG> Hell is a natural outcome of
JG> making the wrong choices in life. God is much like a mother who
JG> tells her child. Do not play on the 401 highway.
If you had the ability, would you punish your children for eternity?
BJ>> They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing,
BJ>> it shall not hurt them;
DM>> He is asking you do do the drinking, dolt, not type the
DM>> thing in full or explain what it means. He KNOWS what it
DM>> means.
DM>> Apparently, you do not.
JG> Who is to say which one knows what it really means.
Anyone who can read. The verses in question tell us that certain signs will
follow true believers. Why have we not seen all these signs?
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Kenneth Cavness
|Sub: Christian blow jobs, Staa
|Date: 03 Mar 96 05:54:25
EID:bc2c 20632ec0
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 31393447
REPLY: 1:271/460 3136ca58
01 Mar 96 04:57, Kenneth Mcabee wrote to Kenneth Cavness:
KC>> Your god sure is mercurial.
KM> He sure is, praise the Lord.
I *knew* this would happen when I saw your post! McAbee once again shows
that he is dumber than even I gave him credit for.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Christian blow jobs, Staa
|Date: 03 Mar 96 05:55:21
EID:42ba 20632ee0
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 3139348d
REPLY: 1:271/460 3136ca58
01 Mar 96 04:57, Kenneth Mcabee wrote to Kenneth Cavness:
KC>> Your god sure is mercurial.
KM> He sure is, praise the Lord.
Do you know what mercurial means, dipshit? Open that dictionary you're always
babbling about and look it up.
HINT: It does not mean merciful.
You're an idiot, Kenneth.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Churches
|Date: 03 Mar 96 05:33:19
EID:9fe1 20632c20
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 31392f61
REPLY: 1:157/200 5d120638
28 Feb 96 19:03, Kevin D. Mckenzie wrote to David Worrell:
DW> KM>> But you can't blow up puppets!
DW>> I see your slug-training is coming along quite nicely.
KM> I'm learning from the best.
Been taking suck-up lessons from Lynda, too, I see. Where *do* you find
the time? :)
DW>> have to be sure not to eat anything that might have been cooked by
DW>> Lynda, Judith, or Katherine.
KM> Well, it would depend. Are they pregnant and barefoot?
If they're not now, they should be. :)
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Jim Staal
|Date: 03 Mar 96 05:58:58
EID:3ac7 20632f40
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 3139355b
REPLY: 1:228/45.0 3135cbf1
29 Feb 96 15:34, Mark Staal wrote to Karl Schneider:
MS> .....Only in my temper....Getting quite sick of being referred
MS> to as my brother Jim. that's alll.
WHy do you get sick of being referred to as yourself, Jim?
You really should get back on your medication.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: REDACTED STORIES
|Date: 03 Mar 96 06:05:12
EID:b63a 206330a0
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 313936c2
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 313833e0
02 Mar 96 07:21, Don Martin wrote to Rob Burcham:
DM> aren't exactly typing in lead. Perhaps Herdy supposes that there is
DM> something particularly arcane about the space bits in metal.
He is a 'bamy, after all. He probably considers indoor plumbing to be rather
arcane.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: US Bans AbortionSpeak on 'Net
|Date: 03 Mar 96 05:26:22
EID:4cf9 20632b40
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 31392e82
REPLY: 1:382/804.0 134bf091
28 Feb 96 14:46, Terry Liberty-Parker wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> Unfortunately, mainstream religions don't have a monopoly on
DW>> irrationality. Liberty-Parker can be said to follow a
DW>> religion of sorts, though.
TP> Ooohhh!!! "A religion of sorts." A CONSPIRACY theory?
Exactly. The Christians believe in a God without any real evidence whatsoever.
You believe in the malicious intent of the government without any real evidence
whatsoever.
DW>> That whole militia nonsense is built on the faith (with no
DW>> evidence whatsoever) that the government is out to get us.
TP> You may have snoozed thru the recent passage of govt censorship laws
TP> applying to interactive computer systems;
Irrelevant. You have yet to show, even taking into account *all* of your
silly-assed cut and paste jobs, that there is malicious *intent* behind
any or all of these actions. Until you do so, you're just another looney
flapping in the breeze - amazingly similar to Prewett and his JFK fantasies.
TP> you know, what you're
TP> posting on and the actual THREAD of this conversation.
I thought you had been here long enough to realize that none of us really
give a shit what the thread of any given conversation is. Apparently, I
overestimated your intelligence once again. I've just *got* to stop doing
that.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Waco Web Site
|Date: 03 Mar 96 05:32:20
EID:690e 20632c00
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 31392eff
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 62e472a9
29 Feb 96 07:35, J.J. Hitt wrote to David Worrell:
DW>> 25 Feb 96 13:53, Terry Liberty-Parker wrote to All:
TP>>> For those of you who have access to the InterNet World
TP>>> Wide Web:
DW>> I have just given the "jack-booted thugs" my archives of
DW>> your posts. They're going to be coming after *you* real
DW>> soon now. Run and hide, little looney. Be sure to take all
DW>> your guns with you, ok?
JH> Just remember that it's *MY* turn to fly the Black Helicopter!
JH> You had it last time.
As long as I get to drive the tank through his house.
---
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: All
|Sub: Baha'i
|Date: 03 Mar 96 14:33:05
EID:a083 20637420
MSGID: 1:207/212 9545212a
Some of our fundies here have stated that the supposed deaths of
early Christians for their god is evidence that it is true. Well... I've
found another faith, with far more evidence that the people actually
DIED [it happened in the last century]. The Baha'i. Consider also that
Joseph Smith and many other Mormons were killed in the 19th and 20th
centuries without recanting their faith.
Unless you're willing to admit that those faiths are also "true" you
have to accept that people will die for what they believe in regardless
of evidence. Thus people dying for a religion is NOT evidence of its
inherent truth.
Here's the evidence:
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
*** THE BAHA'I FAITH ***
The Baha'i Faith (pronounced "ba HIGH") is the newest of the
major world religions.
HISTORY
In 1844, a young man in Persia took the title Bab ("the
Gate"), announcing that He was a divine Messenger and that
another Messenger would soon appear. The Bab quickly
amassed a large following, but opposition by Muslim clergy
and government officials soon turned to oppression, and
thousands (including the Bab Himself) were put to death.
One of the Bab's followers, a young nobleman, was imprisoned
as part of this attempt to stamp out the infant faith. While
in prison, He took the title Baha'u'llah ("Glory of God")
and announced that He was the new Messenger foretold by the
Bab. He and His family were exiled several times, and
finally sent to the prison city of Akka, Palestine (now
Israel), where He spent the rest of His life. During His
ministry, He wrote over 100 volumes, and the number of His
followers, now called Baha'is ("of Glory"), increased.
Baha'u'llah died in 1892. In His will, He appointed his
eldest son, Abdu'l Baha, as His successor and the official
interpreter of His writings. Eventually released from
prison in 1907, Abdu'l Baha traveled the world teaching the
Faith (he visited the United States in 1912). Abdu'l Baha
wrote a number of books explaining and amplifying the
teachings of Baha'u'llah. The works of the Bab,
Baha'u'llah, and Abdu'l Baha, which number about 200
volumes, comprise the Baha'i scriptures.
Upon Abdu'l Baha's death, he appointed his grandson, Shoghi
Effendi, to head the faith. During his lifetime, Shoghi
Effendi worked to teach the Faith and to establish the
Baha'i administrative order set out in the Baha'i
scriptures. Since Shoghi Effendi's death in 1957, the
Baha'i Faith has been run by this administrative order.
... If you are ahead, shut up and stay there.
--- PPoint 1.98
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
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PATH: 207/212 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Karen Davis
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: White-lighter Religio
|Date: 03 Mar 96 09:02:41
EID:e2a2 20634840
MSGID: 1:207/212 40870ac5
REPLY: 1:170/309@fidonet.org 48eec091
On (02 Mar 96) Karl Schneider wrote to John Prewett...
KS> ROFL. Does it bother it that your Jesus was a 'fag'?
I believe it is in the Gospel of John where John is laying with his head
on Jesus' chest or stomach [very intimate, that, in a culture where male
intimacy is frowned on] and referring to himself as "the apostle whom
Jesus loved."
... What's Title Eye X? - Ronald Reagan
--- PPoint 1.98
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
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SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 207/212 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Karen Davis
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Kenny is back into his de
|Date: 03 Mar 96 14:37:02
EID:e232 206374a0
MSGID: 1:207/212 cde77eea
REPLY: 1:271/460 3138459a
On (02 Mar 96) Kenneth Mcabee wrote to Kevin D. Mckenzie...
KM> Why? Because the knowledge of when English became a language will not
KM> get me into heaven, nor does it add "fundy" to the dictionary.
No, but our use of it will.
... A rose by any other name... Hmmm... How 'bout George?
--- PPoint 1.98
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
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SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 207/212 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Karen Davis
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Religions In Canada - Stats Can 1991
|Date: 03 Mar 96 14:38:35
EID:51ab 206374c0
MSGID: 1:207/212 60940f26
REPLY: 1:105/40.666 2cea431b
On (02 Mar 96) Marilyn Burge wrote to Norbert Sykes...
MB> Not elsewhere classified. In other words, "there may be some
MB> groups that we've missed, so we're lumping them altogether here."
How many Hutterites are there nowdays?
... Answers: Short, $1; Correct, $25. Dumb looks are stil
--- PPoint 1.98
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 207/212 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Karen Davis
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Baha'i
|Date: 03 Mar 96 14:43:36
EID:e456 20637560
MSGID: 1:207/212 ab755ede
Mike, please see my message to ALL in this packet about the Bahai.
Evidence against your assumption that dying for one's religion within a
few decades of the leader's death or emergence of the religion is
evidence of the truth.
Unless, of course, you're willing to admit that the Mormons are right or
the Baha'i are right.
... A shot of reality never hurt anyone ³ÄÄÄIJþ²þ²þð=ÄÄÄÄ,
--- PPoint 1.98
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
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PATH: 207/212 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Monty Arch
|Sub: Angels
|Date: 02 Mar 96 18:42:00
EID:0f94 20629540
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893611F3
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 02-29-96 21:42, Monty Arch got back to Dawn Kleuser
MA> I have a guardian angel that pulled me back from oncoming traffic,
MA> which I was
MA> stepping out from between parked cars.
So, just how many doors does your guardian angel have?
... If I had a choice of weapons with you, sir, I'd choose grammar.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
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PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: George Rudzinski
|Sub: Re: animalize
|Date: 02 Mar 96 18:49:00
EID:41a5 20629620
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893611F4
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 02-28-96 14:01, George Rudzinski got back to Dan Ceppa
MH> You want to believe you're an accidentally animated hunk of meat.
MH> Fine. I refuse to think so lowly of myself, or even of you.
GR> I don't see where admitting what we are makes us lower. I still prey
GR> on plants
It only does when you need to think that you were given "dominion
over the earth". When you find our that you are only a small part
of it puts a big dent in your ego.
GR> Homo sapiens sapiens. You have a reputation to uphold God Dan.
Part of the mythos revolves in making nearly as many typos as
God Martin Godberg...
DC> If that makes you feel insignificant, then my job is done.
GR> It won't. He has Jesus in his pocket. Rumor has it that the bulge
in
GR> his pocket is actually a hard-on for power.
Either that, or a gerbil not wanting to be smuggled... ;)
... "False Christian Scum"? Bring on the "True Christian Scum"!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
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PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: apostate
|Date: 02 Mar 96 18:54:00
EID:3741 206296c0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893611F5
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-01-96 04:28, Kenneth Mcabee got back to Karen Davis
KD> And why should I believe someone who believes in the mythology that
he
KD> WAS crucified?
KM> You believe it to be a mythology, I do not. And to be quite frank
KM> about it, I don't understand why someone who believes it to be
KM> mythology would spend so much time here debating it.
Because it's so much fun to watch you squirm trying to find
evidence to support you book a myths.
God ahead, fundy, trot your bible out yet again to "prove" that
your god-awful god exists. Your circular reasoning is making
your kneck look like a cork screw.
... +Origin: "Prove that He isn't!" -- every new fundie
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
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PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: Avoiding the Question
|Date: 02 Mar 96 18:56:00
EID:0adc 20629700
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893611F6
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 02-29-96 02:37, Jim Germiquet got back to Don Martin
DM> how come he doesn't send the sin to hell and save the sinner
DM> whom he (supposedly) loves?" and NOT "What is the state of
JG> How about letting a "newbie" take a shot at this one.
JG> God does NOT send "anyone" to hell. Hell is a natural outcome of
JG> making the wrong choices in life. God is much like a mother who tells
JG> her child. Do not play on the 401 highway. The child ignores his
Would your mother send you to hell for eternity? Would you send
your kids to hell for eternity?
... +Origin: FASCIST, NETWORK! Hate for Jesus!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
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PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Dan Hunting
|Sub: Bible Verses
|Date: 02 Mar 96 19:11:00
EID:1e22 20629960
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893611F7
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-01-96 13:10, Dan Hunting got back to All
DH> interested in studying the Bible. Does anyone keep a list of
DH> contradictory, bizarre and genrally absurd Biblical quotes I could
DH> used to needle this fellow a little bit? I'm not really interested
in
Start at the beginning: There are 2 different accounts of creation
in Genesis.
If you need more, there are plenty to be had!
... God is love (*tm. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply).
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
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PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: Buchanan
|Date: 02 Mar 96 19:14:00
EID:460b 206299c0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893611F8
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 02-28-96 08:32, Rick Mcfarlane got back to J.j. Hitt
RM> After he won in New Hampshire, in a phone interview, Pat said that he
RM> had people over in China right now, studying the Great Wall, because
RM> A CBC comedy show commented on it, very appropriately last night.
RM> They said that might not be such a bad idea after all, because Pat
RM> Buchanan would be on the other side of it.
The Royal Canadian Air Farce?
Never heard of it...
... HolySmoke: More fundies per capita than found in a Reno whorehouse.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
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PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: Re: children
|Date: 02 Mar 96 19:23:00
EID:cbba 20629ae0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893611F9
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 02-29-96 02:37, Jim Germiquet got back to Kevin D. Mckenzie
KDM> Then what's the problem with abortion?
JG> The problem with abortion is that as soon as the egg and sperm unite,
JG> you have a new unique individual human being. All it needs is food and
No you don't. You have a fertized egg that may or may not be
implanted into the proper female organ, if at all. Only after 9
months do you have a full-term delivery. A premie may survive
naturally after about 7 to 8 months. In the interim, there a around
a 75% chance that, even with extreme care that the fetus will not get
that far.
This does not factor into the equation that a natural birth will
not kill the mother.
... if males got pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
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PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Hello!
|Date: 02 Mar 96 19:47:00
EID:4e61 20629de0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893611FA
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-01-96 04:26, Kenneth Mcabee got back to Karen Davis
KD> 3. The creator is some God other than the God[s] of the Bible and is
KD> shown in some other holy work or tradition.
KM> That's your opinion not mine. MY opinion is if the Bible is wrong,
KM> then there is no God. Period, end of line, no more story. When I die
I
Provide evidence of the Flood, Kenny.
Seems like Hector's law has gotten a new laser sight and has you
right in range.
... And to think, he's the product of 3,800,000,000 years of evolution.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
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SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: HI, Staal
|Date: 03 Mar 96 09:28:00
EID:3ea7 20634b80
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893611FB
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-01-96 05:01, Kenneth Mcabee got back to Karl Schneider
KM>> I and my Father are one. That makes ONE God.
DC>> So, just who was your godling praying to? Some false god in heaven?
KM> entities of the same one true God. How can it be? Quite frankly I don't
KM> know, but I do know that the Bible says that the Word was both with
and
IOW, you worship a schizophrenic god.
BTW, do you were clothes made of mixed fibres?
... Jesus loves you..but then again, so does Barney.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Mark Staal
|Sub: Re: Jim Staal
|Date: 03 Mar 96 09:34:00
EID:93a4 20634c40
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893611FC
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 02-29-96 15:34, Mark Staal got back to Karl Schneider
KS> FUNDY MELTDOWN ALERT.
MS> .....Only in my temper....Getting quite sick of being referred
MS> to as my brother Jim. that's alll.
Yes, that must be the very worst epithet that can be applied to anyone.
... Which one of you is in possesion of the solitary Staal neuron today?
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Moral Relatives
|Date: 03 Mar 96 09:40:00
EID:ff62 20634d00
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893611FD
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-01-96 05:28, Kenneth Mcabee got back to George Rudzinski
GR> Mark 16:15-18. I'll pour.
KM> And I've demonstrated that we are not to tempt the Lord our God.
No, Kenny, you merely stated what you think, which isn't much. You
have yet to demonstrate that your god exists, let alone that your
bible is is hateful word.
... God's hellish fear... how does one resist science? - Nietzsche
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: PHAROAH
|Date: 03 Mar 96 10:00:00
EID:3d7c 20635000
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893611FE
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-01-96 07:08, Judith Bandsma got back to Dan Ceppa
MH> Wrong. Pharaoh hardened his own heart after the first five plagues.
DC> Why the next seven plagues, Mikey? Can't your god do anything
JB> Can someone tell me what bible Mike is reading? Mine says pretty
JB> clearly that GOD told Moses '*I* will harden his heart against you'.
It's not so much as which version of the bible Mikey is reading as
to how he is reading it. He is shifting the blame to Pharoah to
make his god look like the innocent party and the eventual
saviour of the Hebrews from a dastardly Pharoah.
JB> riddance' a couple of times. If you read the bible, though, it says
JB> that GOD made him change his mind on those occasions.
It's an ego trip to show how powerful their god is. In fact, I've
read that there were only 7 (note the number) original plagues.
The other five were added on, again to a significant Hebrew number.
JB> Sort of like Lucy and Charlie Brown with the football.
I wonder if Schultz was using that analogy...
... Theological is not. Political correctness isn't.
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: REDACTED STORIES
|Date: 03 Mar 96 10:04:00
EID:5ccd 20635080
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893611FF
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-01-96 07:15, Judith Bandsma got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> I think I'll lock her in the closet until she turns 21... ;)
JB> Better yet, send her to your mother-in-law until then. After all,
JB> she has already had the experience of raising at least one daughter.
I intend to protect my daughter, not torture her!
... Barney is the DEVIL! and Rush Limbaugh is the ANTI-CHRIST!
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: The Might Stuff
|Date: 03 Mar 96 10:35:00
EID:2103 20635460
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89361200
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-01-96 05:34, Kenneth Mcabee got back to George Rudzinski
KM> get to heaven. "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is
KM> eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Such a pity your godling has been dead for nearly 2,000 yrs, isn't it.
... "I knew Jesus. He was a pussycat. We used to call him "The Rabbi"
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: troll
|Date: 03 Mar 96 10:40:00
EID:4a30 20635500
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89361201
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-01-96 21:55, Michael Hardy got back to David Worrell
MH> Romans 5:8: "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While
MH> we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
MH> Dunno about proud, but he loves me still (and you too, for that
MH> matter.) That's good enough for me.
Your godling would have done better if he died to take away the
sins of the world. Then again, it says that somewhere in your
book, doesn't it.
Which is it, Mikey, he took away the sins, or just died and leaving
the sins around?
... "God breaks his laws only when necessary.": Mikey Hardy
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: FOF UPDATE, STAAL
|Date: 03 Mar 96 11:12:00
EID:1131 20635980
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89361202
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-01-96 13:12, Don Martin got back to Dan Ceppa
DM> Dan Ceppa said "FOF UPDATE, STAAL" to Steve Wallis,
SW> I doubt it. More like a well established Christian organization that
SW> has stood its ground when attacked by the whimsical antics of the devil
DC> Got any evidence for those demons, let alone the devil that you
DC> Go hide in your closet until you get Ruptured.
DM> Haven't you heard? Those who have contaminated
DM> themselves by using computers will not GET raptured.
Such a pity. Wonder if Steve knows that...
DM> just have to go on putting up with the miserable little
DM> shits.
Not quite... As he didn't get Ruptured, he's the one that has
to live in the hell he created by using the Devil's Computer.
After all, look how badly FIDO is messing up lately. It's
pure Hell on earth!
... "Xiananity is Yuppieanity." Ross Catto
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Re: God's Word
|Date: 03 Mar 96 11:15:00
EID:fb36 206359e0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89361203
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-01-96 07:00, Michael Hardy got back to George Rudzinski
GR> Why would a book that you claim to be inspired by god have any errors?
MH> I'm not the one claiming it does.
So, Mikey, you believe in a book fraught with errors. Is it any
wonder why you need your own little personal algorithm to decide
just what _you_ think is the truth in it in order for you yourself
to continue to believe that book of errors?
... Born-Again-Radical-Fundamentalists..... B.A.R.F's
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: George Rudzinski
|Sub: Re: ignorance
|Date: 03 Mar 96 11:18:00
EID:f748 20635a40
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89361204
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 02-28-96 14:10, George Rudzinski got back to Dan Ceppa
MH> Just what is it that you imagine Christians are ignorant of, Styx?
DC> Reality, Mikey. If you have a god, do trot it out to introduce
GR> Like the pony in the basement when I was a kid. It was there, just
GR> trust me.
GR> Want to buy some horse shit?
No thanks... I get all I need here from the postings of the fundies
to take care of the Johnson Ranch.
DC> In the interim, belief in the critter has caused some 200 Million
DC> deaths minimum in its name.
GR> And you are an optimist. I'll wager the number is over 1 billion.
Most likely and then some, unfortunately...
... "I missed being god by one vote!" Odin
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Kenneth Cavness
|Sub: Re: Hi
|Date: 03 Mar 96 11:51:00
EID:e5b4 20635e60
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89361205
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
* Reply to msg originally in Check Duplicates
-> On 02-29-96 13:12, Kenneth Cavness got back to J.j. Hitt
-> Re: Re: Hi
KC>
KC> -!- PCBoard (R) v15.21/M 100
KC> ! Origin: TRAVEL ONLINE / ST. LOUIS ONLINE - (314) 561-4956
KC> (1:100/635)
Kenneth, looks like our "good friends" at St Louis Online are
at it again...
They did a rash of re-posting about a month ago.
... "You saw God?" "Er, yes...and she's black, sir."
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: 1 god plus 1 god plus
|Date: 03 Mar 96 12:15:00
EID:f129 206361e0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89361206
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-02-96 02:50, Jim Germiquet got back to David Rice
DR> However, no god has ever said or written anything, so the issue
DR> is mote.
JG> How very true. God is a spirit.
Got any evidence that the spirit world exists, let alone any
god that may reside in it?
... Belief without evidence is no more than self delusion.
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: A LITTLE HELP FROM SP
|Date: 03 Mar 96 12:19:00
EID:a628 20636260
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89361207
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-02-96 02:50, Jim Germiquet got back to Sue Armstrong
JG> Sorry it doesn't work that way. God is limited in his ability to help
JG> his messengers by those who hear the message and respond. When a
Besides the fact that you don't know that god may be a she, aren't
you limiting what should be an omnipotent god?
If you can limit it, it sure isn't much of a god, is it.
... Do I know the bible??? Hell, I've proof edited the translation!
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Al Schroeder
|Date: 03 Mar 96 12:22:00
EID:164e 206362c0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89361208
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-01-96 14:21, Don Martin got back to Robert Jackson
DM> However, J.J. and I may be seeing one another May 1, so
DM> his/her secret may be out (unless I am bribed).
RJ> Marty already "outed" him.
DM> Damn! and I was so hoping for the bribe!
She wouldn't have paid, anyhow...
... Polls show that 8 out of 5 schizophrenics agree!
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PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: David Johnston
|Sub: Atheist Hypocrisy
|Date: 03 Mar 96 12:32:00
EID:904c 20636400
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89361209
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-01-96 01:07, David Johnston got back to Styx Allum
DJ> I don't agree. The commandment is "Thou shalt not covet thy
DJ> neighbor's (stuff)". Using shareware without paying for it doesn't
DJ> violate that commandment any more than it violates the present laws.
I take it that you forgot about, "Though shalt not steal" as
well as the admonitions against taking out a loan.
DJ> You haven't taken anyone's possessions away from them. The Hebrews
DJ> didn't even have the concept of copyright.
They didn't even have a concept about the value of Pi, yet you
follow their dogma like a new born puppy after a teat.
... "Don't mince words, David ... what do you *REALLY* think?"
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
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PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 03 Mar 96 12:53:00
EID:68ee 206366a0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 8936120A
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 02-29-96 07:50, Andrew Masten got back to Kevin D. Mckenzie
KDM> Because we aren't making the claims.
AM> You claim that were here by natural causes apart from God.
Seems that there is a "tad" more evidence that supports those
natural causes than there is the shows a "god" exists.
... "Given sufficient time, any fundy will debunk itself." Hector
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
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SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
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PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 03 Mar 96 12:56:00
EID:68ee 20636700
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 8936120B
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 02-29-96 07:51, Andrew Masten got back to Kevin D. Mckenzie
KDM> Why don't you get the book? You make a claim, you provide the
KDM> evidence.
AM> 'Cause I didn't ask how the numbers were arrived at. If you doubt
AM> it, persue the matter yourself.
IOW, you not only can't do it, you will not do it, as it will
cut the straw legs out from under you.
Hang on, let me fire upr my little weed wacker. No need for the
chainsaw for your little lack of conviction, let alone lack of
evidence.
... Know God, know problems. No God, no problems!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
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SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
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PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: J.j. Hitt
|Sub: Re: Hi
|Date: 03 Mar 96 13:24:00
EID:cac2 20636b00
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 8936120C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-03-96 03:55, J.j. Hitt got back to Kenneth Cavness
JH> And there you miss the total beauty of this medium. A message
JH> truly stands or falls solely on it's intellectual content. The
JH> age, sex, race, social position, economic level or ethnic
JH> heritage of the speaker is totaly immaterial here.
Well said.
I wonder if george rudzinski has taken the time to read what
you wrote...
... "Oh, Bother!", cried Pooh, as he sold Eyore to the glue factory.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
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PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: J.j. Hitt
|Sub: Hi
|Date: 03 Mar 96 13:26:00
EID:cac2 20636b40
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 8936120D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-03-96 04:14, J.j. Hitt got back to Don Martin
DM> Hey, I said we could do tea, not tee off!
JH> Good. I hate golf.
Bigot!
... No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
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SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
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/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Mark Staal
|Sub: Re: Jim Staal
|Date: 03 Mar 96 13:29:00
EID:93a4 20636ba0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 8936120E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-02-96 20:15, Mark Staal got back to Ryan Shaw
MS> I'll forward this to Jim for you since you don't know how to do
MS> mail correctly,,.....What's your name?????......Dave... Fredie....
MS> George....?
At least we know your name is Mud, Jimbo.
... Mark Staal ...Condom poster child
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
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PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Kenny is back into his de
|Date: 03 Mar 96 13:31:00
EID:2bff 20636be0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 8936120F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-02-96 07:54, Kenneth Mcabee got back to Kevin D. Mckenzie
KDM> When did English (or a
KDM> recognizable ancestor) become a language?
KM> Don't care....
Which is the extent of your non-biblical mythos learning...
... "Aren't unevidenced supernatural claims _FUN_!": Hector
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
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SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
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PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: J.j. Hitt
|Sub: Message to Asmodeus
|Date: 03 Mar 96 13:37:00
EID:a314 20636ca0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89361210
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-03-96 02:31, J.j. Hitt got back to All
-> Re: Message to Asmodeus
JH> Dear White Punk on Dope Satanist,
JH> You missed me.
JH> You fucked up.
JH> And you owe me two bucks. (I'm joining the Friends Of Al Schroeder
JH> class action suit.)
Just happy that I could get you and Al to organize! LOL-WTIME! I
think I'll hit him up for this rash of cold weather we've been
having. If we can get the East Coast to come in on this, he'll be
a free man in the year 200,001 or so...
... +Origin: The Don Rickles Network: Zing of the Jews.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 03 Mar 96 13:54:00
EID:9e3b 20636ec0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89361211
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-01-96 17:33, George Mooth got back to All
GM> WORSHIP AND OBEY
Don't forget to bend over, so that you get the full thrust, Mooth.
... Christians call it "faith" ... I call it "the herd" : Nietzsche
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Re: Quality fundy time
|Date: 03 Mar 96 13:57:00
EID:938e 20636f20
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89361212
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-02-96 10:30, Karl Schneider got back to George Rudzinski
GR>And you haven't explained why you selectively believe in the Gospels.
GR>Mark 16:15-18. I'll pour.
KS> He has explained it, George. These verses were allegedly added
KS> at 'some later time' by 'some unknown person'. It's all very
KS> fucking convenient. I guess God was on vacation when that
KS> 'unknown person' fucked up his instruction manual.
The bigger questions are why the god:
A: Didn't strike the interlopper dead on the spot.
B: It took the god umpteen centuries to figure it out.
... G'day, mate...throw another fundy on the barbie!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: QUESTION
|Date: 03 Mar 96 14:01:00
EID:4a09 20637020
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89361213
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-02-96 10:48, Judith Bandsma got back to Katherine Wintersnight
KW> I am not either purple, Styx. I am a proud pale blue Scottish person.
JB> With tartan overlay?
Never thought that she was tan, but I was unsure about the tart part..
... "I don't need your war machines, I don't need your ghetto scenes."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
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SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: Taking a break
|Date: 03 Mar 96 14:09:00
EID:9c62 20637120
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89361214
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 02-29-96 22:11, John Prewett got back to All
JP> I'll routinely pick up my mail, and will save it, however,
JP> I don't expect to be responding for at least a couple of months.
Spring came early for you this year, didn't it, John.
Must be the heated climate made from the ashes of your mouldering
anti-christ, JFK.
If we are lucky, you will come back very late and have a nice
warm Fall and late Winter in the offing.
Don't worry, as I'll tell Marilyn Monroe "hi" for you, though it
does bring th beast out in Johnny. Last time I told her that for
you he asked to borrow my car and a map of Chappoquidick.
... "Don't mince words, John ... what do you *REALLY* think?"
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Lee Varelman
|Sub: The Might Stuff
|Date: 03 Mar 96 14:13:00
EID:06be 206371a0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89361215
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-02-96 03:55, Lee Varelman got back to George Rudzinski
LV> "And he said unto them..." who among us was there?
"he" who? The writer?
Got any evidence for that silly god or godling of yours? And,
don't forget to provide evidence for the holy spook. He seems
to get lost in the shuffle of the few cards you call a mind.
... "Bother!" said Pooh, "I only wanted to *stun* Tigger."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
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PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Re: Viability
|Date: 03 Mar 96 14:25:00
EID:4704 20637320
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89361216
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 02-29-96 08:41, Andrew Masten got back to Karl Schneider
KS> WAITAFUCKINGMINNIT....if he was 'innocent' why was he 'punished'???
AM> He took our punisment upon Himself so we could be declared
AM> 'innocent'. Christ said himself He came to give his life a ransom for
AM> many.
And, having that ransom in your pocket, you proceed to persecute
all that don't follow you hatred. How convenient.
Torquemada is proud of your line of reasoning, if it can be
called that, bigot.
... McGod's - Have it my way or go to Hell. - Sue Armstrong
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Terry Liberty-parker
|Sub: Waco Rememberance
|Date: 03 Mar 96 14:30:00
EID:ae2f 206373c0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89361217
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-01-96 19:40, Terry Liberty-parker got back to Dan Ceppa
TL> Only when being sub-human.
DC> You haven't risen to even that level.
TL> Ah, the prejudiced sphincter arises again.
I see you pucker up again. Note, you of very few synapses, it is
your comment that I was responding to.
And, sub-sentient you remain.
... "Eat shit. 10 billion flies can't be wrong." Brian Syme
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Terry Liberty-parker
|Sub: Waco Web Site
|Date: 03 Mar 96 14:33:00
EID:f43a 20637420
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89361218
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-01-96 18:51, Terry Liberty-parker got back to Fredric Rice
FR> Neat! Does it also include your friends who blew up the
FR> federal building in Oklahoma?
TL> Hang on to your hatemongering prejudice, Fred. It's apparently the
TL> only thing your being comforted by these days.
And it is the straw that is contained in your skull that fuels
it all.
I'd ask you to crawl back up the womb that begot you, but she
doesn't wat to ever admitting spawing you.
... I spoke to God this morning, and he doesn't like you.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Les Wilcox
|Sub: Who cares?
|Date: 03 Mar 96 14:44:00
EID:4984 20637580
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 89361219
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-01-96 23:04, Les Wilcox got back to Dan Ceppa
-> LW> Sorry. That was the Old Testament.
-> The Ten Commandments are also in the OT. If you remember, it
-> includes the one about not stealing.
LW> Thanks for that reminder. I'm glad at least one of us is worried
LW> about it.
After all, it obviously is not you and your religion. You and
it has discarded any form of real morality a long time ago.
Must make you feel so wonderful not having to be judged by
your betters for you large failings in the Morals Category.
After all, you have already shown a complete lack of them. I'd
ask you to arm yourself with a good supply of morals to put up
an adequate defence. However, you have categorically denied
your stealing, in comnplete odds with your supposed "truth
of god", your bible.
Face it, Wilcox, you don't have any morals. Your own posts
show that. All you have is a very unfounded belief that you
do. You words belie your belief system far too well.
Enjoy you life as a liar in your own lack of reasoning. It's
all that you have.
... You are usually insane; in lucid moments merely stupid.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ryan Shaw
|Sub: Tennessee Commandments
|Date: 03 Mar 96 16:22:00
EID:b5e1 206382c0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 8936121A
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-01-96 19:03, Ryan Shaw got back to All
RS> The Tennessee Senate has approved, 27-1, a resolution urging
RS> homes, businesses, places of worship and schools to post and observe
Fortunately, at this time. it is only "urging".
RS> State Sen. Steve Cohen, a Democrat who was the only senator to
RS> vote against the resolution, said the vote was an alarming indication
RS> of the rising power of the religious Right.
If you are able to vote for him, support him. He seems to have the
only intelligince in the Tennessee legistature.
RS> Encouraging SCHOOLS to post a religious document? Don't they ever
RS> learn their lessons about the First Amendment?
They are trying to circumvent that document.
RS> religion. And people wonder why we need church/state separation...
We had one, and, hopefully, we'll will continue to have one, the
religious Riech not withstanding.
... Politically Correct: Euphemism for censorship
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: Viability
|Date: 03 Mar 96 16:31:00
EID:b1d1 206383e0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 8936121B
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-02-96 02:50, Jim Germiquet got back to Andrew Masten
PS> What would you think of a person who's trying to dictate what an
PS> omnipotent god can or cannot do?
AM> Could you elaborate alittle?
JG> Anything god does, he does becomes people demand it of him. That is
JG> why he had to send Jesus.
What's the matter? Is you Omnipotent god getting too old to
cut it?
JG> because the jews had this thing about
JG> sacrificing something to god for forgiveness.
Those Jews are the basis as to why your religion has a history.
If it wasn't for them, your religion would only be about 2,000
years old.
JG> Its a ritual people like to take part in. STarted back in the garden
JG> of eden when adam ate from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
Such a pity that your garden doesn't exist any more than your god.
JG> BE BORN AGAIN !
So, vatt'st the problem, bubbalah? Your Mudder miscarry the
first time around? It's a shame that she never had any kiddlings
that 'ad a brain. She expected them to grow up with a mind, then
you disappointed her and begged to be reborn.
Get reality, and then find a life to fit it and leave your mother
alone.
... Atheism is no more a religion than abstinence is a form of drinking.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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|From: Kenneth Cavness
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Re: CHURCHES
|Date: 03 Mar 96 01:40:44
EID:d968 20630d00
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 313ab0f9
Whilst chewing on a piece of Juicy Fruit (not me!), Al Schroeder said
to Fredric Rice:
rh> I thought the heathens had got you.
FR> We have.
AS> Now, what are you going to do with me? (Gentle smile.)
AS> I know, you will probably say, "educate me out of my superstition".
AS> But we will see who educates WHO.
(gentle smile)
And maybe...just maybe... we'll educate each other.
(It _has_ been known to happen.)
... I've met zucchini with more potential.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx (512)462-1776 (1:382/804)
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|From: Kenneth Cavness
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Re: Many gods
|Date: 03 Mar 96 01:46:55
EID:4d56 20630dc0
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 313ab0fa
Whilst sleeping soundly, Al Schroeder said to Fredric Rice:
FR> I'm totally dedicated to Zeus. Imagine.
AS> Not in a Ganymeadean sense, I trust.
HaHA! We've read Marlowe, I see.
... "Please return steward to original upright position"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx (512)462-1776 (1:382/804)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
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|From: Kenneth Cavness
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Re: Waco rememberance
|Date: 03 Mar 96 01:52:40
EID:5446 20630e80
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 313ab0fb
Whilst doing something most likely naughty and godless, Norbert Sykes
said to Terry Liberty-Parker:
TL> Look again. Hi 60s and sunny. Texas, you know.
NS> JJ posts from Houston, according the to origin line I see on his
NS> posts. You post from Austin. Is there that much a difference in
NS> weather between the two of you?
Yes.
The Gulf Stream does odd things to weather, and Texas is possibly the
most odd of states in that you go sixty miles in any direction and the
weather totally changes.
Houston is humid, hazy, and wet. Add hot to that, too.
Austin is humid, hazy, and dry. Add hot to that, too.
See how much of a difference that makes? ;)
Seriously though -- the climates are totally different.
... Circular Definition: see Definition, Circular.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx (512)462-1776 (1:382/804)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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|From: Jim Owens
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: Comminuion
|Date: 02 Mar 96 20:47:00
EID:0213 2062a5e0
MSGID: 1:3611/2 0005802f
Anthony,
Just plain old greeting from the house of Jim.
AG>This was considered to be the case. But where is the connection with
the Lor AG>Supper? We partake of unleavened bread and drink red wine,
both made by the AG>holy hands of a Christian. I fail to see
cannibalism.
From the passages in the Bible; "This is My blood..." and "This is My
flesh...". Seems like a strang choice of words. Another one of those
symbols that are so common in ALL rituals I suppose.
AG>You are confusing Christianity with Roman Catholicism.
Curious, what bonafide references to cannabilism do the RCC practice?
Just trying to understand behavior,
Jim
* SLMR 2.1a * What follows 2 days of rain?????? - Monday
--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
* Origin: Dixieland BBS / USR 14400 all lines (1:3611/2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
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PATH: 3611/2 6 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Masochistic Maiden
|Sub: Big bird
|Date: 02 Mar 96 12:04:21
EID:39c5 20626080
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 313a35f3
REPLY: 1:352/266 31367C9E
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Fredric and Masochistic were killing time yakking about Big bird:
FR> Actually, Jim, any hate group you can point to which hates blacks and
FR> gays is going to be a Christanic group -- one of _your_ ideological
FR> friends. Hatred and bigotry is nearly the venue of the deity
FR> religious.
MM> Have you ever realized how discrimination is deeply engrained in our
MM> culture? Sadly, I watched a child singing along with Big Bird, "One
MM> of these things. is not like the others. One of these things just
MM> doesn't belong" Scarey thoughts.
Now wait a minute -- what's scary is the idea of living in a society where
children are NOT taught to "discriminate", which would render them incapable
of any critical thinking skills. The Sesame Street ditty is preparing them
for that sort of discrimination. It's the type of discrimination that helps
my two year old figure out that crayons are not a snack food.
MM> Regardless of the religious
MM> connotations, discrimination and intollerance begins it's training
MM> very early in innocent ways all through our society.
Tho sort of discrimination you were referring to above has nothing to do
with
intolerance. Show me a group consisting of a book, a daisy, a tree, and
a
fern. I love books dearly, but I'm not going to go plant it in my garden.
And I've noticed the daisy doesn't have much of a plot when I want to read
something.
Learning to make logical classifications is utterly vital to having even
the
most basic life/survival skills. "Discrimination" is merely being aware
of
those differences and similarities, and making logical choices as a result.
When it comes to people, making ILLOGICAL choices is called bigotry -- as
when we assume that a difference in skin tone or nationality (which we ALL
notice) has any bearing on the person's intelligence, trustworthiness, etc.
Or that espousing a certain religious belief or lack of belief necessarily
has any bearings on the person's own level of intolerance.
See the difference? (G)
Lynda Bustilloz bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... A rolling stone is a singing rock group.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
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|From: Steve Rose
|To: Mark Staal
|Sub: Jim Staal
|Date: 04 Mar 96 08:28:33
EID:0ff1 20644380
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 1379c1ba
REPLY: 1:228/45.0 3138b2cb
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Mark Staal wrote in a message to Ryan Shaw:
RS> ! Origin: The Bear Mountain Picnic Massacre Blues (1:152/67)
MS> .What's your name?????......Dave... Fredie.... George....?
Shut up, fundy flea. Unlike you...Ryan needs only one name: his own.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: * Above Board * (1:109/601)
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PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 01 Mar 96 09:24:37
EID:2075 20614b00
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 313a2168
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org db3daeba
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Katherine Wintersnight to Preston Simpson <=-
PS>Whilst noshing on a Twinkie, Andrew Masten mumbled "Evidence"
PS> AM> terms for producing evidence are a one way street. That this is
a
PS> AM> religeous debate echo is a misnomer, its really a Christain
PS> AM> bashing echo.
PS>Point of order: As you may or may not have seen, we bash some pagans,
PS>Satanists, an occasional Muslim, and even atheists and agnostics. Don't
PS>try to play the "pity me, pity me" game. Besides, doesn't your holy book
PS>say that you're blessed for being "persecuted"?
You have a point. I noticed the one satanist on this board is catching alot
of flack. But I don't feel any different regarding the evidence issue.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
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PATH: 138/255 1 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Andrew Masten
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 01 Mar 96 09:35:59
EID:2236 20614c60
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 313a2169
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 3135cd86
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting David Worrell to Fredric Rice <=-
DW> 25 Feb 96 18:43, Fredric Rice wrote to Andrew Masten:
AM>> In the words of a famous scientist aboard the U.S.S.
am>> Enterprize, " I find that highly illogical."
FR> Try "Enterprise." Do you get _all_ your education from television
FR> actors playing scientists, Andy?
DW> I'm glad someone else found that as amusing as I did. Now we see why
DW> Andrew has such a poor grasp of what science really is.
It was meant to be amusing. Lighten up.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
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PATH: 138/255 1 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: Christianity
|Date: 02 Mar 96 10:33:07
EID:d601 20625420
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 313a216b
REPLY: 1:2424/1004 1e84010b
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Jim Germiquet to Andrew Masten <=-
-=> Quoting Andrew Masten to Eric Hendrix <=-
-=> Quoting Eric Hendrix to Ross Catto <=-
RC> wants.By taking any kind of loan out, a Christian is disobeying a
RC> direct command from god not to.
AM> Thats poor biblical exegesis. The idea was not to borrow money with
AM> no collaterol. If I buy a car on credit, I should put enough down, so
AM> if in dire need, I can sell and get out of debt. Its even more true
AM> borrowing for a house. A house has intrinsic value, while renting
AM> does not. Either way, a payment is due. Its your interpretation of
AM> scripture that is incorrect.
JG> Most interpretation of scripture when being used as a weapon to accuse
JG> or demean a person is incorrect. That is the same crap that Jesus had
JG> to put up with the sadduccees and the pharisees. They continually
JG> interpretted scripture in a way not intended by god. Jesus accused
JG> them of adherring to the LETTER of the law while ignoring the SPIRIT
of
JG> the law.
Many who comment on this echo, don't just disbelieve in God, but loathe
the God they claim they don't believe in.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
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PATH: 138/255 1 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 02 Mar 96 10:39:13
EID:4da6 206254e0
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 313a216c
REPLY: 1:2424/1004 1e840111
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Jim Germiquet to Andrew Masten <=-
-=> Quoting Andrew Masten to Dan Ceppa <=-
AM> Can you tell me a Designer didn't create this universe? If the
AM> answer is "I can't prove a negative" then why saddle me with the same
AM> dilemma?
DC> Now, either provide the evidence or admit that you don't have any.
AM> Okay, you've thrown down the gauntlet. I am up to the
AM> challenge! Let me define my contention. That from what can be
AM> extrapolated from scientific facts, there is a probability of us
AM> being here by design thats at least as, or more compelling than us
AM> being here by natural impersonal causes.
AM> Evidence for fine tuning of universe.
AM> 1. Strong nuclear force constant
AM> If larger; no hydrogen; nuclei essential for life would be
AM> unstable If smaller; no elements other than hydrogen
AM> 25. Ratio of mass of exotic matter to ordinary matter
AM> if smaller; galaxies would not have formed
AM> if larger; universe would have collasped before solar-type star
AM> could form
AM>
AM> Paul Davies " The laws of physics seem themselves to be a
AM> product of exceedingly ingenious design"
AM> George Greenstein (scientist,author) expressed these thoughts,"
AM> As we survey all the evidence, the thought insistantly arises
AM> that some supernatural agency-or rather, Agency-must be involved.
AM> Is it possible that suddenly, without intending to, we have
AM> stumbled upon scientific proof of the existance of a supreme
AM> being? Was it God who so providentially crafted the cosmos for
AM> our benefit?" ( From The Symbiotic Universe)
JG> you know it seems the way you have phrased most of your points, that
JG> it is just how things worked out natural as opposed to created that
JG> way.
JG> I mean if you want I am sure you can call it the handiwork of god, but
JG> it seems he may have used natural processes to create his handiwork.
JG> You see the "laws of science" account for the conditions you set forth
JG> to have developed.
JG> The real question is where did these laws come from ?
JG> Where did ANYTHING come from, and how come we have intelligence logic
JG> and sentience to know about and define these laws ?
Thats a good point Jim. It's normal for intelligent man to create intelligent
things, like a computer. But how did mechanistic impersonal processes create
personal moral intelligent people?
JG> And since everything is merely an extension of mans perception and
JG> definition how do we know if it even exists beyond mans definition of
JG> it?
JG> Someone told me you could take the brain of an individual and
JG> stimulate it is such a way to have the person experience anything you
JG> wanted. Hallucinations of ghosts or ufo's, hunger, thirst, walking on
a
JG> sunny beach and he would believe he was doing that.
JG> How can anyone be sure they are not just a brain being stimulated .
JG> ANd nothin else really exists outside of our own minds ?
JG> Silly questions maybe, but of such context as to be as difficult to
JG> disprove as a "god".
Just in case though, you'd still better send off your tax form.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
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PATH: 138/255 1 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 02 Mar 96 10:46:43
EID:4da6 206255c0
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 313a216d
REPLY: 1:2424/1004 1e840113
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Jim Germiquet to Andrew Masten <=-
DW> Why don't you answer the question instead of doing the fundy shuffle?
AM> Haa! Your the biotic soup a drinkin, Origin of Species thumpin, time
AM> and chance and mutagen believin, evolungelical fundamentalist. You
AM> provide the empirical scientific evidence that atoms self assembled
AM> into a universe, then utimately self assembled into humans. No, you
AM> don't have any. Thats why your theories amount to nothing more than
AM> articles of faith. No, you are the fundy, because you blindly
AM> believe, in spite of evidence to the contrary. And you worship and
AM> bowdown before the creation as if it created itself.
JG> I have to agree with you here. But then who is to say it didn't?
JG> I have always said that the theory of evolution takes more faith to
JG> believe in than the story of creation and should be called the
JG> religion of evolution :-)
Jim, your not gonna make alot of friends in this echo. But I like your
hudspa.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
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SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 138/255 1 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 02 Mar 96 10:50:01
EID:15c6 20625640
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 313a216e
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 631263ab
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to Andrew Masten <=-
MG> A "righteous" god would have prevented all your false christian scum
MG> brethren from torturing, killing, waging war and being general
MG> assholes in his name.
MG> I guess he just wasn't up to the task.
For many, in the end, it was there own undoing. Or as the french would
say, they were hoisted by thier own petard.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
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PATH: 138/255 1 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: Thumb-sucking evolungelic
|Date: 02 Mar 96 10:53:59
EID:abfe 206256a0
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 313a216f
REPLY: 1:2424/1004 1e840114
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Jim Germiquet to Andrew Masten <=-
-=> Quoting Andrew Masten to Kevin D. Mckenzie <=-
-=> Quoting Kevin D. Mckenzie to Andrew Masten <=-
JG>
KDM> ANDREW MASTEN spoke thusly to KEVIN D.:
AM>-=> Quoting Kevin D. Mckenzie to Andrew Masten <=-
AM> AM> None of the physical type, but a philisophical argument.
AM>
AM> KDM> Ye gods, philosophy.
AM>
AM> Philosophy, is more rational basis for belief then science,
AM> because science can't get off the runway without philisophical
AM> presuppositions.
JG>
KDM> Perhaps, but at least science can be applied to reality. Pure
KDM> philosophy can not.
AM> Yes it can.
AM> Every time I sit in a chair, I make a philisophical value
AM> judgement, that the chair will support my weight.
JG> What happens on the day you sit in the chair and it collapses ?
Then it maybe time for an agonizing reappraisal.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 138/255 1 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Andrew Masten
|To: George Rudzinski
|Sub: Re: Evidence
|Date: 02 Mar 96 10:57:50
EID:9e5f 20625720
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 313a2170
REPLY: 1:228/500.0 3135aa4c
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting George Rudzinski to Andrew Masten <=-
-=> Quoting Andrew Masten to Dan Ceppa <=-
DC> No, Andy, that *is* your quote. You are put out because you aren't
DC> allowed to shift the burden of proof from your claim and are
DC> attempting to make Marty prove a negative. It won't work, leaving
DC> you to do your own legwork.
AM> No, Niether you or Marty need prove a negative, Just offer strong
AM> evidence that were here by naturalist processes in refutation to the
AM> evidence I presented. "Now either provide the evidence or admit that
AM> you don't have any"
GR> No problem!
GR> You have no evidence that the constants of the universe can be
GR> anything other than what they are.
The evidence indicates that if the constants were otherwise, we would not
be
here to consider the alternatives.
And you still have a problem.
GR> In Physics we say you are GUTless.
Grand Unified Theory I presume.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 138/255 1 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Andrew Masten
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Evidence
|Date: 03 Mar 96 04:08:14
EID:f56a 20632100
TID: IMAIL-386 1.75+ PK29
MSGID: 1:138/255.0 313a2171
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 89340E24
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Andrew Masten <=-
-> On 02-27-96 08:32, Andrew Masten got back to Dan Ceppa
AM> hell David. I'm a blood bought son of God. My name is written in the
AM> book of life.
DC> Close...oh so close.... Your name is written in the book of DEATHS
DC> that your cult not only condoned but championed. Care to count all
AM> how well they apply themselves to Christ's teachings. Would you
AM> care to show me where in Christ's teachings you find justification
AM> for mass murder?
DC> "But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign
DC> over them, bring hither, and slay them before me." (Luke 19:27)
Quoting out of context, it looks like you have something, lets see what
it looks like in context.
Luke 19:11 (NRSV) As they were listening to this, he went on to tell a
parable, because he was near Jerusalem, and because they supposed that
the kingdom of God was to appear immediately. 12 So he said, "A nobleman
went to a distant country to get royal power for himself and then
return. 13 He summoned ten of his slaves, and gave them ten pounds, {The
mina, rendered here by [pound,] was about three months' wages for a
laborer} and said to them, "Do business with these until I come back.'
14 But the citizens of his country hated him and sent a delegation after
him, saying, "We do not want this man to rule over us.' 15 When he
returned, having received royal power, he ordered these slaves, to whom
he had given the money, to be summoned so that he might find out what
they had gained by trading. 16 The first came forward and said, "Lord,
your pound has made ten more pounds.' 17 He said to him, "Well done,
good slave! Because you have been trustworthy in a very small thing,
take charge of ten cities.' 18 Then the second came, saying, "Lord, your
pound has made five pounds.' 19 He said to him, "And you, rule over five
cities.' 20 Then the other came, saying, "Lord, here is your pound. I
wrapped it up in a piece of cloth, 21 for I was afraid of you, because
you are a harsh man; you take what you did not deposit, and reap what
you did not sow.' 22 He said to him, "I will judge you by your own
words, you wicked slave! You knew, did you, that I was a harsh man,
taking what I did not deposit and reaping what I did not sow? 23 Why
then did you not put my money into the bank? Then when I returned, I
could have collected it with interest.' 24 He said to the bystanders,
"Take the pound from him and give it to the one who has ten pounds.' 25
(And they said to him, "Lord, he has ten pounds!') 26 "I tell you, to
all those who have, more will be given; but from those who have nothing,
even what they have will be taken away. 27 But as for these enemies of
mine who did not want me to be king over them--bring them here and
slaughter them in my presence.'"
In context, Christ is teaching that his disciples, are to produce results
with what God has given them. That those who ultimately reject Christ
will face judgement after there days here on earth. If Christ were
teaching judgement here on earth, why upon His arrest, he told Peter
to put away his sword? That those who live by the sword, will die
by the sword.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (206) 845-2418 (1:138/255)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20 346/49
SEEN-BY: 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 138/255 1 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Angels or Demons???
|Date: 02 Mar 96 13:42:42
EID:d840 20626d40
\_|_|||||||||| __|_
/ |||| |||
J.J. Hitt > Norbert Sykes : Angels or Demons???
DK>> I have a book here titled "The Promise" Contemporary
DK>> English Version - God's Words in Your Words.
NS> Old Version: New Version:
NS> ...and Jesus wept... ...and JC just lost it, man...
NS> ...I will make you a fisher ...I'll sell you the
NS> of men... franchise...
NS> ...no man may enter the kingdom ...listen, you wanna
NS> of heaven, save through me... score or not?
> 8:13 And he left them, and entering into the ship again departed
> to the other side.
JH> Jesus split.
> 8:14 Now [the disciples] had forgotten to take bread, neither had
> they in the ship with them more than one loaf.
JH> The roadies forgot to put the cooler in the boat.
> 8:17 And when Jesus knew [it], he saith unto them, Why reason
> ye, because ye have no bread? perceive ye not yet, neither
> understand? have ye your heart yet hardened?
JH> And Jesus said, "You boneheads are really stupid."
>Matthew 27:5 And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple,
> and departed, and went and hanged himself.
Judas didn't need money, he was hung.
>Matthew 27:7 And they took counsel, and bought with them the
> potter's field, to bury strangers in.
They went to bury a lawyer in the sticks.
>Mark 1:30 But Simon's wife's mother lay sick of a fever, and anon
> they tell him of her.
>Mark 1:31 And he came and took her by the hand, and lifted her
> up; and immediately the fever left her, and she
> ministered unto them.
I don't care how sick she is, get her moving to get my
dinner . . .
You know, this has a lot of potential. And think of all the
headaches we could save people who try like hell to interpret this
stuff. We'll need a catchy title though . . . how about THE Book?
... "I hate Victor Hugo," said Les, miserably.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: US Bans AbortionSpeak on
|Date: 02 Mar 96 13:45:42
EID:3afd 20626da0
\_|_|||||||||| __|_
/ |||| |||
Al Schroeder > Norbert Sykes : US Bans AbortionSpeak on
NS> BTW, you say the above about Clinton as though it were a bad thing.
NS> Heck, to my generation, anyone who smoked dope, dodged the draft,
NS> and slept around who also got elected president was a mark of
NS> success! };)
AS> People try to put us down...
AS> (Talkin' 'bout our generation...)
AS> Just because we get around...
AS> (Talkin' 'bout our generation...)
AS> I agree completely, being one of the few of my generation who can
AS> REMEMBER the sixties. (I don't think my brother's ever come out of
AS> it.)
Ah...another dinosaur like myself. Sigh. Those were the days.
Last night saw Dennis Miller, who said: When is Bill Clinton ever
going to wise up and tell us the truth . . . "Yes, I inhaled, and
then I drank the fuckin' bong water!"
Bong. Another word on the 'Huh' list . . . BTW, wasn't it
supposed to be _MY_ generation? Or am I having a flashback?
... "It is a hell of a thing to be a martyr, MacLeod." -- Methos
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Kenneth Cavness
|Sub: Re: FOF "HATE" 2
|Date: 02 Mar 96 14:09:37
EID:83dd 20627120
\_|_|||||||||| __|_
/ |||| |||
Kenneth Cavness > Judith Bandsma : Re: FOF "HATE" 2
KC> At the time, I didn't know where Fire Island, the setting of the play
KC> was. For some reason, I thought it was off the coast of New York. Eugh.
KC> It's off the coast of San Francisco. Sigh. Other than that, I made
a
KC> 78 on the paper (because I got the setting wrong) After seeing the
KC> play, I was amazed at how accurate my review had been.
Uhm, Fire Island is in New York, not California. I live within a
hundred miles of San Francisco and the only islands I've seen off
the coast are Yerba Buena, Alcatraz, North and South Marin Islands,
and some desolate small rocky ones that host a lot of seals. Fire
Island, which I understand is in New York, supposedly has a resort,
etc. Just FYI . . . };)
... Despite the high cost of living, it remains popular.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Kenneth Cavness
|Sub: Re: Hi
|Date: 02 Mar 96 14:12:45
EID:f2d5 20627180
\_|_|||||||||| __|_
/ |||| |||
Kenneth Cavness > J.J. Hitt : Re: Hi
KC> --- PCBoard (R) v15.21/M 100
KC> ! Origin: TRAVEL ONLINE / ST. LOUIS ONLINE - (314) 561-4956
KC> (1:100/635)
Yeah? }:)
... "Oh, bother," said Pooh as the wind blew the smoke from his gun barrel
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Michael Ayres
|To: Kenneth Cavness
|Sub: FLOOD
|Date: 04 Mar 96 11:58:00
EID:ef03 20645f40
MSGID: 1:3805/24@fidonet.org 200b7e04
REPLY: 1:382/804.0 3135e8bf
Hey Guys:
> JP> Kinda like when God sent angles to shepherds to announce
> JP> Messiah's birth,.... stead of sending them to the big shots.
> ns> God sent 'angles'? How did he know they
> ns> were the 'right angles' to send?
> FR> He hasn't a 'ray' of hope of answering that.
> You really have crossed the line. This entire argument is
> perpendicular to the original speaker's intent.
An acute observation. However, if the original poster were to claim that
all of you were being purposefully obtuse, I would be inclined to cosine.
Moderator; Sorry to go off on such a tangent...
Michael
--- FMail 1.0g
* Origin: Ye Public House of Tullamore / Wichita Falls, Tx (1:3805/24)
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: A LITTLE HELP FROM SP
|Date: 04 Mar 96 01:15:38
EID:9c62 206409e0
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 313a4478
REPLY: 1:2424/1004 1f84014c
02 Mar 96 02:50, Jim Germiquet wrote to Sue Armstrong:
JG> God is limited
Really? You do realize you are directly contravening 2000 years of Christian
thought here, don't you? What makes your opinion more valid than that of
all those who have gone before you?
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Kenneth Cavness
|Sub: Big bird
|Date: 04 Mar 96 01:37:50
EID:9295 20640ca0
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 313a4a27
REPLY: 1:382/804.0 313905e9
01 Mar 96 17:39, Kenneth Cavness wrote to Masochistic Maiden:
MM>> Have you ever realized how discrimination is deeply engrained in
MM>> our culture? Sadly, I watched a child singing along with Big
MM>> Bird, "One of these things. is not like the others. One of these
MM>> things just doesn't belong" Scarey thoughts. Regardless of
MM>> the religious connotations, discrimination and intollerance
MM>> begins it's training very early in innocent ways all through our
MM>> society.
KC> Discrimination is not always a bad thing, when not applied to people.
KC> For example, to discriminate shapes, or tones, from other tones is
KC> part of the normal cognitive process. This, IMO, is what Sesame Street
KC> was trying to do with their "One of these things is not like the
KC> other, one of these things is not the same".
Maiden tries so hard to come across as an intellectual, but she generally
trips over her own feet. In her first post here (several days before you
returned - you might have missed it) she was amazed by the listing of common
logical fallacies in the FAQ. Her next message (I forget the exact content,
so I'm paraphrasing) told us of her "intellectual" leanings.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Taking a break
|Date: 04 Mar 96 01:28:01
EID:28a3 20640b80
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 313a4752
01 Mar 96 13:49, Norbert Sykes wrote to John Prewett:
NS> John Prewett > ALL : Taking a break
JP>> Taking a break
JP>> To- Whoever may have recently sent me a post-
JP>> I'll routinely pick up my mail, and will save it, however,
JP>> I don't expect to be responding for at least a couple of months.
JP>> Lord help us all. WBW, John
JP>> -+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+---
NS> Is this leaving the door open, or a total bug-out?
Nahh.. Pre-wit does this several times a year.
NS> Should we archive your responses for comparrison to quotes when
NS> you return?
Always. :)
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Lee Varelman
|Sub: The Might Stuff
|Date: 04 Mar 96 01:20:21
EID:3610 20640a80
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 313a45cf
REPLY: 1:3805/24@fidonet.org 1f02559b
02 Mar 96 03:55, Lee Varelman wrote to George Rudzinski:
>> Mark 16:15-18. Learn the lesson Kenny, don't just graze.
LV> Mark 16:15-18... is this your favorite verse, or just the one you're
LV> obsessing over this week? Or perhaps it's the only one you know?
LV> Let's pick this apart and be done with it, shall we...
[...]
LV> shits and the laying of dirty hands. "Go unto the world and
LV> preach thy
LV> Holy Bullshit..." Amen.
LV> OK, we fed Mike the drano and he's on the floor... turning weird
LV> colors... What now, oh mighty prophet? Thanks a load.
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that George is a Christian.
If you had read the echo a little closer, you would have realized two things:
1. George is not a Christian, and,
2. I am the one that is supposed to be mistaken for a Christian - it's right
here in my contract.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: US Bans AbortionSpeak on 'Net
|Date: 04 Mar 96 01:10:49
EID:5d9a 20640940
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 313a4387
29 Feb 96 11:35, Norbert Sykes wrote to Terry Liberty-Parker:
TL>> But, what else can you expect from someone who supports running
TL>> tanks thru a residence occupied with men, women and children.
TL>> -Asoc Press story in Austin American-Statesman (largest daily
TL>> circulation in Austin, Tx) Mar 1, 1994 pg b3.
NS> The Associated Press says that David Worrell supports running tanks
NS> over people? Hey, David, you're getting much better press than _I_
NS> am!
Heheh... I ought to be famous, considering the time I've spent trying to
get this numbnuts to contribute something besides his moronic cut and paste
jobs. I think I can claim success, too. Terry Righteous-Indignation-Parker
is much more entertaining that the old Terry Cut-and-Paste-Parker.
---
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|From: David Worrell
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Vote for Rapture.
|Date: 04 Mar 96 01:23:54
EID:fef4 20640ae0
MSGID: 1:3615/41.11 313a46c1
01 Mar 96 12:44, Norbert Sykes wrote to Katherine Wintersnight:
KW>> I wonder, do you think we could have them out of the way, and
KW>> everything organized in time for Samhain?
NS> Well, if not this year, then definitely by next year. Think of it!
NS> No more looking for parking places! No more crowded malls!
NS> Anything we wanted to watch or hear or read in the media! No more
NS> polyester, white shoes, Jannie Frickie (sp?) albums, crappy hold
NS> music, food shortages, religious riots and wars, etc.
That's where you're wrong, Norbert. Only the *Real, Trve, Christians* are
going to get taken up in the rapture, correct? By my count, that means that
there will be, at most, one person (Anthony Grigor-Scott, maybe? at least
he seems to think he is the one) that is Raptured. The rest of us will still
be as fucked as always. :)
---
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Waco rememberance
|Date: 04 Mar 96 06:16:00
EID:ebae 20643200
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6332db67
NS> JJ posts from Houston, according the to origin line I see
NS> on his posts. You post from Austin. Is there that much a
NS> difference in weather between the two of you?
This time of year there can be. Houston is on the coast and
Austin is 150 miles inland. The Gulf tends to keep things
warm even in winter.
They get occasional freezes.
We get occasional hurricanes.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: seedy CD
|Date: 04 Mar 96 06:22:48
EID:f318 206432c0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6332e1bf
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 31384a34
DW> Hmmm... Roosterwoman uses the same ISP as Asmodoodoo. I
DW> leave the conclusion up to my readers.
It's obvious.
Michigan sucks.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
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SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: OUR DAILY BREAD
|Date: 04 Mar 96 11:58:28
EID:96e5 20645f40
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6335f658
MG>> "O pardon me thou bleeding piece of Earth,
MG>> That I am meek and gentle with these butchers.
MG>> Thou are the ruins of the noblest man that ever lived in
MG>> the tide of
JB> And all this with NO typos. Did you scan it in, or are you
JB> ill?
It probably came off of the Microsoft Bookshelf CD, it has
the Complete Works of Willy.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Kenneth Cavness
|Sub: Re: Hi
|Date: 04 Mar 96 12:01:15
EID:506c 20646020
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63360f33
REPLY: 1:382/804.0 31389ab0
On Mar 02 13:00 96, Kenneth Cavness of 1:382/804 wrote:
JH>> I'm not interested in cooperating. I find pidgeonholes to
JH>> be too confining to be comfortable.
KC> Then I suggest you stop doing it with me, and right fast. I
KC> don't want to "label and classify" you, and building up a
KC> straw man in that regard will cause you to start arguing
KC> with yourself.
Sounds like a bargain. I've tired of you already.
You want body language? I'll give you some: "Kiss my ass."
You may now commence to whineing about ad homiems.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: apostate
|Date: 04 Mar 96 12:26:46
EID:63a5 20646340
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6336394c
REPLY: 1:2424/1004 1e840102
On Feb 29 02:37 96, Jim Germiquet of 1:2424/1004 wrote:
JG> And have you not heard of the group "Jews for Jesus"?
JEWS ?!? HolyShit!
And all this time I thought they were saying "JUICE for Jesus".
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: cult evaluation form
|Date: 04 Mar 96 12:31:34
EID:fc16 206463e0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6336442a
REPLY: 1:2424/1004 1e84010e
You're a Martian?
KW>> 9-SEXUAL MANIPULATION: of members by leader(s);
KW>> amount of control over sex
KW>> lives of members. 9._________0___
JG> My religion does not control the sex lives of members.
You got a lot of homersectionals in your religion?
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: cult evaluation form
|Date: 04 Mar 96 18:08:47
EID:fc16 20649100
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 633958d8
REPLY: 1:2424/1004 1e84010e
On Feb 29 02:37 96, Jim Germiquet of 1:2424/1004 wrote:
KW>> 8-POLITICAL POWER: amount of external political
KW>> influence desired or obtained. 8._______0_____
JG> My religion is not of this world.
You're a Martian?
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Ed Dutkiewicz
|Sub: dinosaurs?
|Date: 04 Mar 96 18:17:22
EID:37cb 20649220
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 633973d4
REPLY: 1:236/20.0 313a1412
ED> As far as dating contemporary things, one does get false
ED> old ages. For example, the grass near a highway always
ED> shows that its millions years old, when one uses carbon 14
ED> dating. This is due to the burning of fossil fuels which
ED> contributes to a higher ratio of "old" carbon(14) dioxide
ED> to carbon-12 dioxide.
Huh?
Do you have a reference for this? Carbon-14 isn't an "old" form
of carbon, it's an UNSTABLE isotope. The older something is, the
*LESS* C-14 it will contain.
I'd be very interested in learning where you picked up this
little tid-bit.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Christopher Baker
|Sub: Re: HolySmoke Pick Yer Poison List
|Date: 04 Mar 96 18:25:30
EID:526f 20649320
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 633980bd
CB> Christopher Baker atheist Coca Cola Classic
CB> w/lime
With LIME ?
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Paganistic followers
|Date: 04 Mar 96 18:28:38
EID:673c 20649380
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63398839
REPLY: 1:157/200 5c02090f
JB>> You are feeble minded and blinded but your so called
JB>> paradise of lies when you die there will be no god to save
JB>> you bastard..
KDM> Ah, good. Another notch in the ol' keyboard.
KDM> The very least you could have done is quoted my message,
KDM> so I could figure out which buttons to push in the future.
Do what I do.
Push ALL of them.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: The fire
|Date: 04 Mar 96 18:31:00
EID:3a29 206493e0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63398cb4
REPLY: 1:157/200 5c020920
KDM> Well, I don't get to used bookstores as often as I'd like,
KDM> but if there's anything I can do . . .
A shame.
You can never spend too much time in a used bookstore.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: David Robins
|Sub: It's flat.
|Date: 04 Mar 96 18:34:02
EID:27ee 20649440
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 63399618
REPLY: 1:247/312.0 3133a033
DR> [is the Flat Earther's society still around? Are you by any
DR> chance a member?].
I think so. But for some reason, I thought they were in
Zion, IL and not California.
Charles K. Johnson
Flat Earth Research Society International
P.O. Box 2533
Lancaster, CA 63539
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: OF "BATS" AND "BIRDS"
|Date: 03 Mar 96 18:37:00
EID:15b3 206394a0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Judith Bandsma <=-
AS> since you and George may be entering into a business relationship,
AS> don't comment.)
I did my commenting when George hit you about your kids. It did no good,
so I'll not try it again. I think George is savvy enough to see a good
investment for what it is, regardless of the opinions held by the
principals.
I didn't see the message directly from Mark, but I did see a quote of it
and sent my condolences. This is not a subject to try to 'score points'
from. It is never easy to have someone you love die. Not for anyone. I'm
sorry for their pain and hope that they won't stint on the grieving
process. It isn't something you can just shut off and not pay a price for.
... Life after Death? Is that like terminate and stay resident?
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/19 97 200 803 911 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777
SEEN-BY: 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 372/911 200 270/101 218/801
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: DEMONS...DEMONS
|Date: 03 Mar 96 18:47:00
EID:df3d 206395e0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Judith Bandsma <=-
AS> Nope. We need to pray for YOU. It is obviously allied with His
AS> Infernal Majesty. (Cartoon idea: God at a computer in Heaven, looking
Hey, I'm fine! Frustration is good for the brain at times. I just wish
there wasn't so much of it all at once. I've almost got things straightened
out. Everything is pretty well usable at the moment but there are some things
that need to GO. I've got a tape backup now, so in a couple weeks (when
I
feel more confident about this) I'll probably screw up the whole thing
royally.
... Smoreplay is what Smurfs do before Smucking.
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/19 97 200 803 911 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777
SEEN-BY: 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 372/911 200 270/101 218/801
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: OF "BATS" AND "BIRDS"
|Date: 03 Mar 96 19:02:00
EID:15b3 20639840
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Judith Bandsma <=-
AS> there is another bill to post the ten commandments in schools to
AS> promote "morals" and "ethics". The state Attorney General has told
From what I saw, that bill read to post them in 'schools, government offices
and PLACES OF WORSHIP'. I wonder how many howls that will bring...the
government telling churches what they have to post.
I saw a good one today while coming home from visiting a friend. 'Sacred
Heart FEDERAL Credit Union'.
... Truth is just truth. You can't argue with truth: P Schickele
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/19 97 200 803 911 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777
SEEN-BY: 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 372/911 200 270/101 218/801
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Kenneth Cavness
|Sub: FOF "HATE" 2
|Date: 03 Mar 96 19:07:00
EID:56fa 206398e0
-=> Quoting Kenneth Cavness to Judith Bandsma <=-
KC> At the time, I didn't know where Fire Island, the setting of the play
KC> was. For some reason, I thought it was off the coast of New York. Eugh.
But at one time there WAS an artist's colony called Fire Island out on the
tip of Long Island. It is a case of using the same name and the SECOND
location becoming more well known than the first.
But then I remember when the only Soho was in London.
... What do you feed a Trojan horse? A latex lollipop!
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/19 97 200 803 911 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777
SEEN-BY: 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 372/911 200 270/101 218/801
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Joanna Amren
|Sub: URL!
|Date: 04 Mar 96 06:30:00
EID:14ad 206433c0
-=> Quoting Joanna Amren to Masochistic Maiden <=-
JA> see how stupid they acted when they WERE as fundy as I was. I didn't
JA> make any sense whatsoever, and I can see why everyone ere got a good
JA> laugh out of me.:)
You haven't mentioned whether or not you got back on your meds. If you are
still off them and have reclaimed your brain...HOORAY! If you have gone
back on them, even better.
Some of us didn't get a laugh out of you, Joanna. Some of us were worried
sick that you were going to end up on a slab as nothing more than another
statistic. What a waste that would have been. Your religious convictions
seemed to have you in a state of believing you were invulnerable...that
was
what we found the stupidest.
... You know when you're dieting when postage stamps taste good!
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/19 97 200 803 911 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777
SEEN-BY: 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 372/911 200 270/101 218/801
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Masochistic Maiden
|Sub: CLASSROOMS
|Date: 04 Mar 96 06:43:00
EID:61f8 20643560
-=> Quoting Masochistic Maiden to Judith Bandsma <=-
MM> I know, and I find it frightening... however even if nothing of
MM> religion or beliefs is taught by the school, those topics are there
as
MM> the students voice their views to their peers. I sometimes feel that
The big difference is in exposure vs. forced compliance. No, we will never
get away from exposure...to anything. Be it religion or pornography. But
both are in the eye of the beholder and what one may call religion, I may
see as porn. That is why the mandating of religion, or ANY exercise thereof
(school prayer, etc.) is so repugnant.
You can walk away from your peers expressing their views. Walking away from
a state-mandated prayer (while theoretically 'allowed') does not strike
me
as an option most would take. The peer pressure because of it would likely
be severe. Not to mention the notations on a student's records by the
teacher to the tune of 'unco-operative, refuses to join in class activity,
etc.'
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/19 97 200 803 911 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777
SEEN-BY: 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 372/911 200 270/101 218/801
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Masochistic Maiden
|Sub: MAD
|Date: 04 Mar 96 06:50:00
EID:03c4 20643640
-=> Quoting Masochistic Maiden to Don Martin <=-
MM> There was a person by the name of Don Martin who figured significantly
MM> in the development and production of Mad Magazine. I was almost hoping
MM> that was you. Oh well.
This Don Martin may not have ever been one of Mad Magazine's mavens but
he
IS one third of the planet-busting 3 Martins, World Title Holders, Olympic
Championship pun team.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/19 97 200 803 911 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777
SEEN-BY: 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 372/911 200 270/101 218/801
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: TAKING A BREAK
|Date: 04 Mar 96 06:57:00
EID:4693 20643720
-=> Quoting Norbert Sykes to John Prewett <=-
NS> Is this leaving the door open, or a total bug-out? Should we
He did this last year about this time, too. I think it's the time of year
when he either goes out and dances with bears or it's his usual hospital
check-in time.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/19 97 200 803 911 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777
SEEN-BY: 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 372/911 200 270/101 218/801
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: BELIEFS.
|Date: 04 Mar 96 07:02:00
EID:e3ce 20643840
-=> Quoting Norbert Sykes to Masochistic Maiden <=-
NS> Everybody has to believe in something, and I believe I'll have
NS> another beer. -- Harry Dean Stanton in Repo Man.
I kind of liked the '3 laws of repo work' myself.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/19 97 200 803 911 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777
SEEN-BY: 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 372/911 200 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Robert Jackson
|Sub: Meanwhile back in the ozone...
|Date: 04 Mar 96 22:19:12
EID:60d0 2064b260
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 633bc1cf
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 3136638c
Hehehe...
I'm pretty sure I predicted something like this. I should
have saved the message where I said it would happen...
But it has happened... (cue the organ music)
In I_UFO, the former, retired, resigned, living in a cave,
EX-moderator of I_UFO Glenda Stocks seems to have put her
moderator hat back on again...
...in order to suspend Walter "Konehead" Bartoo.
I'd love to know the story behind the story on this one.
The offence supposedly is that Walter was reminding people
they were off-topic in such a way that he was able to get
the last word.... Make that the last 2000 poorly spelled and
incoherently composed words.
My next prediction: she finds an excuse to make the 30 day
suspension permanent. All she needs in the way of an excuse
is for Walt to do something stupid... which is pretty much
a given.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: George Mooth
|Sub: Our Daily Alien
|Date: 05 Mar 96 05:35:25
EID:a6b4 20652c60
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 633fa9b2
::: A STRANGE REPORT :::
A man in his late 40's came to us to explore several alien-
related events in his life, and in the interview he told of a
strange, although not apparently alien-oriented, episode that
had haunted him since childhood. When he was ten years old, his
grandmother came to visit in his home, and since the house was
small, she shared his bed on the first night of her visit.
During the night, the boy was awakened by a loud male voice. He
couldn't understand what the voice was saying, but it sounded
angry and was addressing the grandmother lying beside him.
The next morning, he asked his grandmother, "What was that voice
in the bedroom last night?"
His grandmother, with tears in her eyes, pulled him tightly to
her and said, "That was the devil." She said nothing more about
the episode, but she did insist that her son take her back to
her own home immediately. It was an unreasonable request, and
her son tried to talk her out of it. But the grandmother was
adamant, and finally her son agreed to take her home the
following day.
The entire family made the trip of over a hundred miles back to
the grandmother's farm, and within an hour of their arrival, the
grandmother suffered a massive stroke and died. Ever since that
event, the man had felt a heavy burden of guilt associated with
his grandmother's death. Yet there was no conscious reason for
him to have felt that way. The entire event was poignant and
mystifying, but in all the alien encounters he had subsequently
undergone, he had felt that the aliens were his friends and were
helping him by expanding his psychic abilities.
A regression session was arranged, and in the course of the
hypnosis, he was asked to look at that childhood experience.
What he recalled was an abduction in which he and his
grandmother were taken to a spacecraft in the company of
reptilian aliens. He remembered the aliens telling his
grandmother that they were interested in learning about her
knowledge of medicinal herbs.
And they offered to exchange medical information of their own.
They gave the boy and the grandmother a liquid to drink,
explaining that it was beneficial and would make the grandmother
feel young and attractive again. So both of them drank the
liquid, and the man remembered seeing his grandmother indeed
looking much younger.
But when the liquid was drunk, he now remembered a very strong
feeling of change in his body. And he saw that the grandmother
didn't actually look younger. Instead, she was placed on a
table and approached by one of the reptilian aliens who wanted
to have intercourse with her. The liquid had acted as an
aphrodisiac, yet the grandmother resisted and said that since
her husband's death she would not have sex with anyone. The
reptilian laughed and disappeared from the room momentarily.
When he returned, he was accompanied by a man who looked exactly
like the dead husband.
At this point, the grandmother agreed to have sex, but as the
act was in progress, she suddenly realized that the image of her
dead husband was a cruel illusion. It was actually the
reptilian on top of her, and she cried out in great resistance
for him to leave her alone. Once he was finished with her, he
lifted up the little boy and placed him on top of the
grandmother, forcing another sex act upon the both of them.
Then the grandmother was removed from the table and the little
boy was victimized himself by the reptilian, forced to have anal
and oral sex. The grandmother protested violently, pushing the
reptilian away from her grandson and interposing her body
between them. "By Jesus," she shouted, "you will not touch this
boy!"
That must have been the wrong thing to say, because the
reptilian became very angry and threatened her. "You will die
for that!" he told her, and the two people were returned to the
bedroom from which they'd been taken. The next morning, the
grandmother told the little boy that the devil had been there
the night before, and that was when she insisted upon being
taken home. And, as it turned out, she did die immediately
thereafter.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: FOF UPDATE, STAAL
|Date: 05 Mar 96 05:44:14
EID:9b52 20652d80
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 633fc9f1
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 89361202
DM>> Haven't you heard? Those who have contaminated
DM>> themselves by using computers will not GET raptured.
DC> Such a pity. Wonder if Steve knows that...
It's been a while since I've read any of his rants, but I
thought Winter was a Post-Tribulation Pre-Millenialist (ie:
the "Rapture", like the Trinity, is a doctrine that is
only held by False Christian Scum).
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 449 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Styx Allum
|To: Brad Jackson
|Sub: Bible
|Date: 04 Mar 96 23:38:00
EID:d716 2064bcc0
MSGID: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 201744c2
> Greetings!
> The bible is inspired by God!
Conspired by man, and expired by examination.
---
* Origin: Religion - a mind is a terrible thing to waste. (1:152/20)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 152/8 20 37 67 153/800
SEEN-BY: 153/920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777
SEEN-BY: 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 152/20 8 270/101 218/801
|From: Roadrunner
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: Re: Baha'i
|Date: 04 Mar 96 23:41:56
EID:9503 2064bd20
MSGID: 1:123/319.0 313bc613
PID: BWRA 3.02 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7949
-=> Quoting Karen Davis to All <=-
KD> Some of our fundies here have stated that the supposed deaths of
KD> early Christians for their god is evidence that it is true. Well...
KD> I've found another faith, with far more evidence that the people
KD> actually DIED [it happened in the last century]. The Baha'i. Consider
KD> also that Joseph Smith and many other Mormons were killed in the 19th
KD> and 20th centuries without recanting their faith.
Where do you "kikes, hebes, hymies" get-off calling Christians "fundies"?
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: The Anarchist's Kitchen... Is Something Burning? (1:123/319)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777
SEEN-BY: 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/319 305 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Preston Simpson
|To: All
|Sub: Feed problems, of course.
|Date: 05 Mar 96 00:56:11
EID:da0e 20650700
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 313bd77b
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
As some of the more observant amongst you may have noticed, I've been
absent for nearly a week. This is not my fault (no Satanic curses, no
illnesses, no wild and passionate orgies), but rather due to that old
standby, FIDO problems. Everything *should* be straightened out by now,
but I've doubtlessly missed a lot.
... "I've seen this scenario before...and I don't like it." -- Al
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777
SEEN-BY: 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Joanna Amren
|Sub: URL!
|Date: 05 Mar 96 00:56:12
EID:cb7e 20650700
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 313bd77c
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Joanna Amren URL! wgah'nagl fhtagn.
JA> Now I'm an ex-fundy and I'm glad. I mean, anyone would be when they
JA> see how stupid they acted when they WERE as fundy as I was. I didn't
JA> make any sense whatsoever, and I can see why everyone ere got a good
JA> laugh out of me.:)
"You have taken your first step into a larger world."
... Vampire Error: vert, eflect, mpale
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876
SEEN-BY: 320/119 340/20 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10
SEEN-BY: 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423
SEEN-BY: 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308
SEEN-BY: 3412/1114 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777
SEEN-BY: 3805/3 7107/9
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|From: Brian Kolacy
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Flood
|Date: 04 Mar 96 21:19:00
EID:b87c 2064aa60
MSGID: 1:272/99 0018caa6
(On 03-03-96 Michael Hardy replied to Dan Ceppa)
MH> DC> They "*believed* it." A belief does not fucking make it true,
MH> DC> You should know that, as you don't believe in a global flood.
MH> DC> Why don't you BELIEVE in that, as others have and do BELIEVE in
MH> DC> it?
MH> OK, I'll rephrase.
MH> The resurrection of Jesus must have really happened, because people
MH>who lived at the same time and in the same place knew it happened.
MH>And anyone with an IQ over 20 -- which probably leaves you out, I
MH>know -- realizes that people who live at the time and place an event
MH>happens know more about it than people 1,900+ years later thousands
MH>of miles away.
Hmmm...'tis a shame there weren't any historians around to document
this resurrection thing...'tis a shame *no one* was there to witness
it...
Cheers!
Brian C. Kolacy
brian.kolacy@leading.org
http://ny.frontiercomm.net/~mephisto/
... If Michael had half a brain, his ass would be lopsided.
þ CMPQwk 1.42 9044 þ
--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/10
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|From: Brian Kolacy
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Bible Verses
|Date: 04 Mar 96 21:19:00
EID:4570 2064aa60
MSGID: 1:272/99 0018cab3
(On 03-03-96 Michael Hardy replied to Dan Hunting)
MH> Perhaps you should open your mind a bit. If a "well-reasoned non
MH> believer" can become a Christian, perhaps there's more to it than
MH>you realize.
MH> How about giving him a fair chance to convert you? If there's
MH>nothing to it, then you've nothing to lose. If there turns out to be
MH> more to it than you realized, then you have much to gain.
Have you given the same chance to the Islamic faith? Oh,
sorry...they're obviously not as intelligent as you;)
Cheers!
Brian C. Kolacy
brian.kolacy@leading.org
http://ny.frontiercomm.net/~mephisto/
... The only time I open my mouth is to change feet!! Michael Hardy
þ CMPQwk 1.42 9044 þ
--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/10
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Masochistic Maiden
|Sub: Mad
|Date: 04 Mar 96 09:22:12
EID:e240 20644ac0
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 313b19fd
REPLY: 1:352/266 313A3143
Masochistic Maiden said "Mad" to Don Martin,
adding:
DM> Apart from the fact that I remember it in its comic book format,
DM> no.
MM> There was a person by the name of Don Martin who figured significantly
MM> in the development and production of Mad Magazine. I was almost hoping
MM> that was you. Oh well.
No, he did not "figure significantly in the development
and production of Mad Magazine". _That_ Don Martin was a
freelance artist heavily used by Mad Magazine, and used in
every sence of the term. The checks he received for his
artwork had a "work for hire" agreement printed over the
place of endorsement, so when he cashed the check, he signed
away ALL rights to his own work. Then the magazine printed
(and made a bundle from) a bunch of paperback collections
("Don Martin Steps Out', etc.) without paying a single penny
to Martin. Not that he was the only one treated this
way--Bill Gaines screwed ALL freelancers equally. The
practice of putting such agreements on the backs of checks
is now illegal, owing in great part to Martin's testimony on
the practice before the Senate Copyright Committee.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: holysmoke.faq.ah
|Date: 04 Mar 96 12:27:59
EID:2725 20646360
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 313b19fe
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 89350EF9
Dan Ceppa said "holysmoke.faq.ah" to Don Martin,
adding:
DC> Yep, he was arrested for carrying gulls over State lions for
DC> immortal porpoises...
Jesse warned me that wicked old atheists do no good
deeds . . .
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Don Martin
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: George
|Date: 04 Mar 96 12:27:59
EID:d14a 20646360
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 313b19ff
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 31376a3b
David Worrell said "George" to Don Martin,
adding:
MM> Possibly so. Hey, does Mad Magazine mean anything special to you?
DW> You really ought to start telling these bozos that you *are* that Don
DW> Martin.
He's had enough trouble without my impersonation of him.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: 325
|Date: 05 Mar 96 01:21:33
EID:48af 20650aa0
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 313b9f1b
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Boni and Judith were killing time yakking about 325:
BH> Who are ya apologizing to? These messages ain't goin' nowhere!...:-)
BH>
JB> Maybe the replies aren't getting back to you but we are seeing EVERY
JB> LAST ONE of your little notes back and forth. That's my frustration
for
JB> the day. You will probably never see this one either...but at least
I
JB> tried.
I don't know about you, but it makes me somewhat nostalgic for the "good
old
days" when we had a party line .... and unfortunately, never overheard
anything more interesting then some old woman's daily health woes. "Ruby,
I woke up today with the WORST backache!" "Pearl, honey, I TOLD you to
sleep on a board! Now let me tell you about my feet. I swear, they are
rotting right off and that medicine the doctor gave me isn't doing a blessed
thing!"
Hmmm -- maybe they weren't such good old days after all....
Lynda Bustilloz bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "Absence makes the nose grow longer." - The Doctor
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Quotes
|Date: 05 Mar 96 01:41:47
EID:d9fd 20650d20
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 313b9f1c
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 89354390
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Masochistic and Michael were killing time yakking about Quotes:
-=> Quoting Masochistic Maiden to Fredric Rice <=-
FR> HOW TO USE FEAR TO CONTROL THE IGNORANT
FR> Read: Adolph Hitler, in a speech delivered April 12, 1922
MM> I've been reading your postings of these little quotes. I would love
MM> to know it there is a book that has these quotes arranged in such a
MM> wonderfully obvious manner. If there is, I want a copy!
MM> I admire the patience you show. When I say I do not agree with the
MM> spreading of hate mongering under the name of religion, I'm referring
MM> to exactly this type of material. I think this type of response is
MM> much more effective than the name calling and attacks on character that
MM> I see so often.. Thanks.
MH> There is nothing admirable about Fred. He's a firm believer in guilt
MH> by association -- if Hitler hated Jews, and Hitler called himself a
MH> Christian (although there's ample evidence he didn't really believe),
MH> then all Christians hate Jews.
Fred -- can you confirm or deny this, please? In your opinion, do all
Christians hate Jews?
Lynda Bustilloz bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... It is easier to admire hard work if you do not do it.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
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|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Quotes
|Date: 05 Mar 96 01:43:54
EID:a8b4 20650d60
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 313b9f1d
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 89354390
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Masochistic and Michael were killing time yakking about Quotes:
MH> Fred is the real bigot here. He takes the extreme views of fringe
MH> groups and insists they represent the mainstream.
MH> He's not the only one, of course. Other anti-Christers think the same
MH> way. Three anti-abortion activists have killed people. Never mind
MH> that millions of pro-lifers are as appalled at that as anyone else,
MH> people who think like Fred believe that three nuts is proof that
MH> pro-lifers are violent.
Here we go again -- do I need to start reposting the lists, or are you trying
to suggest that any act short of murder is "non-violent"? And I'll not
even
dignify your association of the observation that there is a violent core
within the pro-life movement that needs to be addressed rather than ignored
with being an "anti-Christer". Shame on you, Michael, for doing the very
thing you accuse Fred of doing.
Lynda Bustilloz bustillo@ix.netcom.com
... "If you had an off switch, would you tell anyone?" - Data
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
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|From: Annette Spence
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Re: God's Word
|Date: 04 Mar 96 17:01:36
EID:8296 20648820
TID: FastEcho 1.45 8010
MB> AS> One of the reasons you are one of my favorite skeptics. You fight
MB> AS> fairly and cleanly.
MB>
MB> You have a short memory. I go postal now and then.
postal...I will have remember that description....
--- Borelli Balda Sleq
* Origin: If you can't Lay em, Slay em! - Freya (1:114/252)
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|From: Sue Alexander
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Mark staal the lump
|Date: 04 Mar 96 18:30:09
EID:d3b7 206493c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 313be003
REPLY: 1:116/19 035AA96C
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Dan Ceppa <=-
FR> Assmodify's curse he threw at JJ Hitt bounced off of him and into my
FR> computer.
DC> Get together with Al Schroeder. If you can enlist a few more, you
DC> may have grounds for a class action suit against said Ass-more-diddly.
AS> Or his parents. How much you want to bet he's living off them?
AS> Didn't he say he was about eighteen? (Physical age. Mental age a
AS> little younger, about fifteen, I think.)
Methinks you are being overly generous here, Al. ;)
Sue
... I'm pondering the meaning of existence - not mine, his!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
* Origin: The Sacred Scribe, 1-608-238-3837, USR DS V.34 (1:121/45)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Robert Jackson
|Sub: Our Daily Bread
|Date: 05 Mar 96 06:22:46
EID:d98f 206532c0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 634015a8
REPLY: 1:390/87.0 313b5256
GM>> Author Susan Lenzkes was deeply troubled by the pictures
GM>> on the news reports coming from Oklahoma City.
[...]
GM>> Soon Susan was talking with her publisher, who immediately
GM>> provided a quantity of the books free.
RJ> And author Susan Lenzkes is a prattling moron for sitting
RJ> on her ass and needing to talk to her imaginary superfriend
RJ> FIRST before volunteering her help.
Both her and her publisher know that some of those "free"
books will turn into sales of her other books.
She's nothing but a fucking profiteer trying to turn a few
bucks out of the tradegy.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Aaron Boyden
|Sub: atheist hypocrisy
|Date: 03 Mar 96 08:01:00
EID:beb6 20634020
MSGID: 1:116/19 042499C0
AB> I fear the only Goethe I've read is _The Sorrows of Young Werther_,
AB> which led me to intensely despise the pathetic worm of a man that
AB> Goethe described. All due credit to Goethe for painting a portrait
AB> able to evoke such emotions, of course; I suspect that my reaction
AB> might not have displeased him. At least part of the reason Werther
is
AB> so disturbing, of course, is that I've made similar mistakes in my love
AB> life, though I've always gotten a grip on myself considerably before
AB> reaching the point Werther finally arrived at. It's amazing the
AB> illusions one can develop about a person who happens to be physically
AB> attractive at the right time. To push things a little more on topic,
AB> this is surely an example of how irrational virtually everyone is
AB> capable of being. No wonder so many are capable of falling into
AB> religions.
Well,half of Europe reacted the same way. There were many who committed
suicide after reading SORROWS OF YOUNG WERTHER. But all it is, are the
feelings EVERYONE has during an adolescent unrequited love, and we have
all gone through that. Certainly I have. I would *sigh* and yearn for a
person I couldn't have, and carry a torch for years, only to find a much
better person when I wasn't looking for her. And now I've been married
--it'll be sixteen years this May...to the same wonderful woman, and we've
had three kids.
The trick is not to let adolescent angst and "loving to be in love"
delude one into ending one's life, as Werther did. There are women just
as
alone as you, just as yearning for a loving touch as you. And there are
better times ahead.
As for irrationality...it is at least the Christian religion's stand
that we are sent here not at our own bidding, but for a purpose. And
despite the fact that we hope for Heaven, we don't check out at OUR
convenience, but when He's ready for us to.
I'm not a big fan of suicide. It doesn't give me a feeling of high
tragedy but of embarassment, that someone doesn't have the guts to bear
temporary problems. Terminal disease, constant pain, that sort of thing,
I can see someone killing themselves for. Not necessarily condoning it,
but at least understanding and sympathizing with it. But because one is
not able to get one he thinks he loves..? No.
Two of my three sons are autistic. They will probably NEVER form a
romantic attachment with anyone, ever. Yet they enjoy life, despite being
unable to talk or to communicate well. Yet they will never do, probably,
many simple things you take for granted. I hate the thought of someone
tossing away a quality of life I would do nearly anything to give to two
of
my sons.
... "We Help You Out." Motto, Suicide Inc. (Limited)
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- TSX-BBS (Multi-line 32-bit BBS)
* Origin: The Nashville Exchange BBS 615-383-0727 (1:116/19)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
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SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Styx Allum
|Sub: Question
|Date: 03 Mar 96 09:05:00
EID:3545 206348a0
MSGID: 1:116/19 0424A00A
> No I'm sorry. Your statement that, "We're purple, George." Is
> false.
SA> It is also a sarcastic statement, of which only a fool would take it
SA> literally.
> I am white and I'm here.
> And apparently everyone else is white as well.
SA> APPARENTLY, it makes no difference to anyone but yourself.
SA> (And yes, I am aware of at least one black person being in HolySmoke;
SA> but no, I will not divulge the person's identity. I would not wish
SA> your self-righteous cause du'jour upon him/her.)
It's a false statement anyway. Jack Butler (aka the Raven) is Indian, and
I know another Canadian posters said she was Indian/Amerind/Native
American (take your pick--I know Jack prefers the term "Indian"). Neither
can be classed as "white" unless you ONLY use it to mean "not black".
Which, of course, is a sort of prejudice anyway. You welcomed a poster
from Japan, and certainly he was Oriental, and judging from his land name,
the Jason with a Japanese last name who was an astronomer who posted here
four months or so ago was also Oriental.
... Intolerance must not be tolerated
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- TSX-BBS (Multi-line 32-bit BBS)
* Origin: The Nashville Exchange BBS 615-383-0727 (1:116/19)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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|From: Al Schroeder
|To: Annette Spence
|Sub: Re: legend
|Date: 03 Mar 96 08:08:00
EID:47f5 20634100
MSGID: 1:116/19 0424A46A
AS> hiya Al...my brother's feed is back. Have anything interesting to
AS> discuss? I am reading a book about modern martyrs right now. One
man
AS> was involved in conspiracy's against Hitler. He felt as a theologist
AS> that violence was sinful, but believe that sometimes we
AS> must accept that our actions are sinful and "die by the sword" so to
AS> speak. Tack the consequences in righting a wrong by violence. He felt
AS> that it was necessary when living in violent times.
Bonhoeffer perhaps? (Not sure of the spelling.) Priest who wrote about
"cheap grace" and that one must fight for justice in this world, and was
imprisoned and eventually killed by Hitler?
AS> Have any arguments for or against?
Jesus Himself knew that His coming, even though He consoled Peter to put
down the sword, "that he who lives by the sword shall die by it," would
cause dissension and eventually death and wars. "I come not to bring peace
but a sword." Notice He did NOT encourage people to bring up the sword in
His behalf...in fact, the statement to Peter and the "turn the other
cheek" statement show His exact opposite wishes. The "I come not to bring
peace but a sword" is more of a prophecy. The things that are most
precious to one are usually what one will fight for...and religion is one
of the most all-pervasive things in one's mentality, along with politics
(witness George's recent turn-around of opinion of Styx when he found out
Styx's politics differed from his, and treated Styx with the same contempt
he does for fundies), sex (witness homophobic bigotry), and other things.
One of the most remarkable things, at least as far as religion and
polities, is that they are literally arguments about nothing. From the sky
there is nothing to indicate one land is different from another. Canadian
land isn't a different color from American land, for instance. And
although I believe God is very real, He chooses not to make Himself
manifestly apparent. Yet the wars waged in religion's name, over who or
what this invisible God is, nearly approaches the body count of those
killed in politics' name...who will rule up to this imaginary line drawn
on the map. By far the greatest cause of violent death in history is
literally...nothing. Politics and an opinion about an invisible God.
Be that as it may...I think a Christian, despite the injunction to "obey
your rulers", cannot contenance obeying a law that manifestly DEFIES that
of God. That until that line is breached, he is to respect authority, but
not to exceed God's injunctions. Acts 4:18 says, "so they," The Sanhedrin,
the rulers of the land, "called them in and gave them a warning on no
account to make statements or teach in the name of Jesus. But Peter and
John retorted, 'You must judge whether in God's eyes it is right to listen
to you and not to God. We cannot promise to stop proclaiming what we have
seen and heard.'" A clear case is Hitler's actions. Many French bishops
and even a few German ones (not many, unfortunately) found out about the
concentration camps that Jews were being sent to and protested from the
pulpit, and a few actually gave aid to such. A great many more just stood
by and did nothing. I think preventing violent, inhuman death to a
minority picked by sheer prejudice is a clear violation of God's express
commands to us. And I think it is those who resisted, such as Bonhoeffer,
who end up with favor in Jesus' eyes. I think those who can resist
without violence--at least on their part--such as Thomas More and Dr.
Martin Luther King--earn even greater favor in God's eyes. But I think a
minor violence to prevent death to thousands or millions is certainly
justifiable.
Of course...the IRA might think so, too. The line between terrorist and
freedom fighter is a very thin one. Many of the founders of Israel, like
Moshe Dyan, were called terrorists by the British in the forties.
In my particular case, if the Religious Reich took over, and started
sending AIDS patients to concentration camps, and started secretely
executing them, and perhaps also started drumming up pretexts to kill gays
as "possible risks" I would certainly do everything in my
power...including violence, including killing---to prevent it. Or blacks,
or what have you.
However, one must pick one's targets carefully, and one must be careful
not to react too soon and against the wrong target. Many regard abortion
as just such a Holocaust...but the actions of a Paul Hill, although he
might feel himself justified in the exact same way that _I_ would feel
justified in the above example...does not really equate, partly because,
even if one believes in the justice of his cause, he has ended up hurting
the anti-abortion movement much more than it helped, I think non-violent
protest must always be the first line of defense, and violent acts very
much the last refuge. But yes, I think there are times, even for a
Christian, where it might be justified. Where just sitting on your hands
doing nothing would be a GREATER sin.
... Anyone can hate. it costs to love.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- TSX-BBS (Multi-line 32-bit BBS)
* Origin: The Nashville Exchange BBS 615-383-0727 (1:116/19)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Abortion
|Date: 24 Feb 96 09:26:00
EID:2ea1 20584b40
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 31315b33
A lone voice in the wilderness, Dan mournfully howled out "Abortion"
CM> No, I said it was a possibility, not fact.
DC> And, if pigs had wings, they could fly.
DC> Now, do explain why no dinosaurs were placed on your silly little
DC> mythical boat.
Hell, I'd like to know how they expected humans to co-exist with
the likes of Tyrannosarus, Velociraptor, Utahraptor, Deinonychus,
Allosaurus, Nanotyrannosaurus, Albertasaurus, and other large,
quick and nasty theropods.
--Wolfie
Man do not pride yourself on your superiority to animals: they are
without sin, and you, with your greatness, defile the earth by your
appearance on it, and leave the traces of your foulness after
you.---Fyodor Milkailovich Dostoyevsky
... The Big People: What Leprechauns see when they're drunk.
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Scot Bear
|Sub: COINCIDENCE SEVEN
|Date: 24 Feb 96 10:31:01
EID:81d8 205853e0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 31315b34
A lone voice in the wilderness, Scot mournfully howled out "COINCIDENCE
SEVEN"
SB> I can top this. In San Mateo, CA, I went into a Jack In The Box where,
SB> to my surprise, the counter person handed me a sheet of paper with a
SB> pen and points to the paper and say something in Spanish that I
SB> figured to mean: "Mark your order, I'll ring it up."
SB> I asked an Anglo to see the manager and asked why the non-English-
SB> speaking counter-person?
SB> His answer? He's the best one we have that can make change!
SB>
SB> [geesh!]
Heh. Actually, the card isn't a bad idea to help non-English
speaking immigrants cope and work while they learn, though the
card should really be bilingual. (I'd be totally mystified if
presented with something like that in some non-European script,
like Arabic or Chinese.) Besides, if the card were bilingual,
it'd help the worker learn the words for the various products, at
least, hopefully while s/he's taking an ESL course (are these
courses free in the US? I think they are here ..)
Though, it is kind of pathetic that he was the only one who
apparently could make change correctly, even with the cash
registers we have nowadays. There's one bookstore here that
doesn't even USE a cash register - they figure everything out on a
piece of paper, including GST and any discounts they happen to be
offering at the time. The money is simply kept in a drawer behind
the counter.
--Wolfie
Man do not pride yourself on your superiority to animals: they are
without sin, and you, with your greatness, defile the earth by your
appearance on it, and leave the traces of your foulness after
you.---Fyodor Milkailovich Dostoyevsky
... "Oh, very clever Worf. Eat any good books lately?" -- Q
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
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SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: Abortion
|Date: 24 Feb 96 15:52:02
EID:aa2d 20587e80
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 31315b35
A lone voice in the wilderness, Steve mournfully howled out "Abortion"
GtP> Sugar, the ark wasn't large enough to hold all the different species
GtP> of bovine, let alone elephants (there were three or four species then,
GtP> including mammoths), giraffes, bears, all the big cats, whales (is
GtP> says everything that had breathe in it's nostrils), walruses, all the
GtP> types of deer and antelope, and the rest of the critters. Not only
SW>
SW> Well, one would speculate the calculations of the ark to be about 3
SW> football fields long and 3 levels high. However it also assumed by
That isn't hardly large enough to hold every species, both still
living and extinct.
SW> most that most fo the various species of animals that are around
SW> topday, derived from a single species. (Check your local library for
That's called evolution. No ark nor gods required.
SW> info). As for whales, what good would an ark be for them? Are they not
SW> sea creatures?
Cetaceans require a certain amount of salt in their water, else
they go blind. That, and the fact that enough salt is required to
keep their bodies bouyant, and to keep their skin from peeling and
their lungs from collapsing from too little support. Collapsed
lungs is what kills beached whales. Blind Asian River Dolphins
on the other hand don't tolerate a lot of salt well at all, and
require murky rivers in which to live.
As for other marine life, most fish, crustaceans, and other sea
life require a certain amount of salt (or lack of it, for
freshwater species), light, turbidity, temperature, and other
factors else they die. Any aquarium fancier can tell you how
difficult it is to keep fish - just one factor out of whack, and
you lose the entire lot. Sea turtles and seals/sea lions also
require occasional forays to land in order to rest and especially
to breed, and also require a lot of salt to keep their eyes and
skin healthy. The amount of rain et al required to make your
global flood would have seriously diluted the water, causing a
host of problems for any marine life - and the inundation of sea
water into former fresh water lakes and rivers would have killed
fresh-water species.
GtP> that, but HOW did the kangaroo travel all the way from Australia and
GtP> why didn't some of them stick around the ark afterwards.
SW>
SW> How did the natives get there? They must have built a boat an sailed
SW> there along with some animals. Why australia only has kangaroo's, I
Your grammar is as sloppy as your thinking. I will assume you
meant "..only Australia has kangaroos", rather than "Australia
only has kangaroos", two completely different concepts.
Now, why on Earth would Aborigines go carting only certain
critters around, even assuming there were still only two of each
when they did so? (And that is not a valid assumption, because if
there were already Aborigines to speak of, then breeding would
have gone on amongst ALL species, not just humans, and at least
SOME animals would have been left behind.) Red kangaroo boomers
(males) can reach a height of 7' tall, and they can have a nasty
disposition (and the claws, strong legs, and "boxing" ability to
back it up.) They're simply too big to be hauling around in
Kon-Tiki clones, besides the fact that they certainly wouldn't sit
still for very long at all. Aussie palaeontologists have also
recently discovered the fossils of an extinct _carnivorous_
kangaroo that was monstrosly huge (about 9 feet tall, if I
remember the _Quantum_ report correctly.) Why would people want
to haul these around? For that matter, why would they want to be
hauling around goannas? Or Thylacines? Or for that matter, all
the other species found only in Australia, including many species
of possum, many species of marsupial mouse, a whack of different
species of lizard, dozens of species of birds (including the
flightless and very large emu, the Lyrebird, and several species
of Kookaburra) .... In fact, the buzz among the the canophile
community is that dingoes are no longer believed to have been
carted over by the Aborigines. Oh, and don't forget the only two
monotremes left today - the echidna and the platypus.
Koalas eat gum leaves, and ONLY gum leaves - and only the leaves
of certain species of eucalyptus, at that, as not all gum trees
provide equal amounts of nutrition. And they will only eat them
fresh. Did the Aborigines haul all the species of eucalyptus
around, too? (Hint: there are _many_ species of gum tree extant,
not to mention the native Norfolk Pine, amongst other trees also
found nowhere else in the world. The Norfolk Pine looks nothing
like the familiar pines we know of in North America. Oh, and lest
I forget the stingless Australian bee, and the many, many
varieties of unique native flowers, none of which have any scent
..)
SW> cannot say.
Could it be that all these unique native Australians _evolved_
on the continent, after the continent had split from the Asian
mainland, without help from gods or guys named Noah?
SW> Add to that
GtP> that Noah would have had to lay in another herd beast per week per
GtP> pair of predator.....let's see, say there were twelve different kinds
GtP> of big cats, eight different kinds of wolves, and two bears....that's
GtP> twenty-two deer a week. A VERY cursory glance at Genesis puts the
GtP> time in the ark at around 387 days...about 55 weeks...times 22
GtP> animals.... around 1,210 animals needed to be kept to keep the
GtP> predators from chowing down on the animals Noah wanted to save to
GtP> repopulate the earth.
SW>
SW> Under the conditions stated in the Bible it obviously would have been
SW> a very dense and dark place and is speculated that most of the
SW> animals would have hibernated during most of this period hence
SW> reducing the strain on Noah and family to care for them all.
Most animals don't hiberante. Even bears don't truly hibernate;
hibernation is reserved for only the smallest creatures, and even
they can only hibernate for so long (certainly not up to a year or
more.) That leaves EVERY animal above the size of a mouse for
Noah and kin to care for.
SW> Then there's the grain and hay for the grazers
GtP> (do you have ANY idea how much ONE elephant eats in a day?)....and
how
GtP> about FRESH bamboo for the pandas and FRESH eucalyptus for the koalas
GtP> (some will die rather than eat anything not fresh)....then we have
the
GtP> problem of some of the large predatory birds that won't eat anything
GtP> they haven't killed themselves. And how did he get JUST two
GtP> cockroaches. Oh, and speaking of insects, how did he keep the
GtP> termites from snacking on the ark? What did he feed the
GtP> mosquitoes....and how did he manage to keep from getting malaria,
GtP> since it would have had to survive the flood in the gut of a mosquito.
GtP> An item by item answer would be appreciated. And when you're done,
I
GtP> have more questions.
SW>
SW> I dont have all the answers Gwinny, but God does. We can take God at
SW> His word or we can ignore whats written. The choice is ours. May God
SW> bless you as you ponder the scriptures.
Your god's word isn't worth the snot on the tissue paper it's
written on. Of course you don't have all the answers - you don't
have any, because you're too ignorant of the real world, and too
dumb to actually go learn anything, and too scared to peep out
from behind your bible to try, anyway.
--Wolfie
Man do not pride yourself on your superiority to animals: they are
without sin, and you, with your greatness, defile the earth by your
appearance on it, and leave the traces of your foulness after
you.---Fyodor Milkailovich Dostoyevsky
... You have a head that's emptier than a hermit's address book.
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: The Constitution of the USSR, 1977 part1
|Date: 26 Feb 96 10:38:00
EID:3029 205a54c0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 31323d6a
A lone voice in the wilderness, J.J. mournfully howled out "The Constitution
of the USSR, 1977 part1"
SA> THe following is, AFAIK, the ENTIRE Constitution of the
SA> USSR, as ratified in 1977 under Brezhnev.
JH> Could you post the Constitution of the Most Serene Republic of San
JH> Marino next? And follow it up with the 1932 annual budget of Akron,
JH> Ohio. I'm suffering from a severe shortage of useless text files and
JH> every little bit helps.
Sorry. I was slightly miffed at Jesse's accusation that I
couldn't provide any evidence of noble language in said
constitution. Be thankful I wasn't royally pissed.
I made a claim; I simply provided evidence to back it up.
Granted, it's just one version of their Constitution - there were
at least two others before it (the constitution of 1918, and the
constitution of 1938) and probably one more before the collapse of
the USSR itself (but I'm not sure of this; for all I know, the
1977 constitution was in effect until that time, but the current
CIS probably has a new one.) I simply used the version I got a
hold of first, and I typed the entire thing so as not to be
accused of leaving out any potentially nasty stuff and only
presenting the niceties (like free education, free health care,
constitutionally-protected gender equality, freedom of (and from)
religion, the privacy clause, the right to housing, etc. Given my
known political sympathies, such an accusation would be warranted
if I had only posted selected excerpts; therefore, I included the
entire thing - even parts which even I find distasteful (like the
clause that says deputies of the Supreme Soviet cannot be arrested
without the consent of same [Article 118] and the Preamble, which
I find unnecessarily jingoistic and unseemly in any country's
constitution.) The reader may judge this constitution for
himself without any biased selectiveness on my part.
If I were truly belligerent, I would not only have tracked down
all the versions of it, but would have included ALL the
constitutions in the book, from all the Communist countries as of
1981.
--Wolfie
... "But...I *DO* know everything!" - Q
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: The Constitution of the U
|Date: 26 Feb 96 10:56:01
EID:789c 205a5700
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 31323d6b
A lone voice in the wilderness, Dan mournfully howled out "The
Constitution of the U"
SA> THe following is, AFAIK, the ENTIRE Constitution of the USSR, as
SA> ratified in 1977 under Brezhnev. Read it all and then tell me
DC> Thanks for u/l the files. Duly saved, at least as long on my
DC> floppy drives doesn't go south again. (got some cold weather
DC> again...>
Thanks. I figured someone might find it interesting. It should
also be interesting to see Jesse's response, if any.
As I noted to J.J., I took the time to type the entire thing to
avoid accusations of bias because of selectiveness - an accusation
to which I am, indeed, rightfully open. It would not have been
proper on my part to include only certain passages, whereas you or
Worrell or Allum could have gotten away with only partial quoting
of the document. I felt I had to work just a bit harder to
present my case, even though that case was only that the
constitution in question contained "noble language", whether or
not it was acted on.
--Wolfie
"Wake me, shake me, tell me it's a dream,
I've got a B-52 on my TV screen
And a man in a tie, pointing to the sky,
Where you gonna run to now?"
--Redgum
... I am _not_ a Commie symp! I really _am_ a Commie, damnit!
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 246/1002 1 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: A LITTLE HELP FROM SP
|Date: 26 Feb 96 07:54:02
EID:2507 205a3ec0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 31323d6c
A lone voice in the wilderness, Steve mournfully howled out "A LITTLE HELP
FROM SP"
SA> SW> one is money hungry. If they ask for a contribution, its
SA> probally
SA> SW> becuase they need it.
SA>
SA> What's the matter, Steve? Doesn't your god provide for his needy
SA> messengers?
SA>
SW>
SW> Open your eyes Sue, the Church is still here and thriving.
Yes, but _who_ keeps the doors open, the floors clean, and the
bills paid? People, not gods. If a church needs help so badly to
stay open, let it get assistance from the god it serves, rather
than people's pocketbooks.
SW> May God Almighty surround you Sue with a hedge of His angelic Host to
SW> protect you and guide you into a full knowledge of the truth. Have a
SW> good one Sue, and God bless ya in Jesus Christ's name!
You can attempt your silly juju magic all you want, Steve; it
isn't going to affect anything at all. Your injunction to your
god is as laughable as some loony with a voodoo doll sticking pins
into it left and right - and about as effective, at least on
people who don't share the stupidstition.
--Wolfie
"Wake me, shake me, tell me it's a dream,
I've got a B-52 on my TV screen
And a man in a tie, pointing to the sky,
Where you gonna run to now?"
--Redgum
... Barney is to television what Steve Winter is to Fidonet.
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: ABORT ALL THEM Promise Keepers! (Then eat Staal's remains.)
|Date: 26 Feb 96 07:59:03
EID:1128 205a3f60
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 31323d6d
A lone voice in the wilderness, Fredric mournfully howled out "ABORT ALL
THEM Promise Keepers! (Then eat Staal's remains.)"
sa> And Brave Sir Fredric ran away, screaming
sa> "ABORT THEM ALL! (Then eat Staal's remains.)"!
FR> Charming. }:-}
Sounds tasty, doesn't it? :)
sa> No shit. Well, I'd tie him with Staal
sa> and his alter-egos, but hey.
FR> Not to mention the fact that Stall continued to post after his "I'm
FR> Leaving!" whine. In all seriousness I can't help but think that some
FR> of these guys have been told my their masters to stick it out here in
FR> HolySmoke to try to "save" the hurtful heathens. He _might_ have told
FR> his masters that he left and was then told to get right back in here
FR> and "save" us.
I'm surprised they haven't been told that computers are "evil" or
"tools of the devil" (Hey, the devil used a computer on The
Simpsons!) :) Of course, they are also told to go try to "save"
as many people as possible; I guess the sight of so many freemen
just makes their diodes go nuts with the prospect of racking up
mega-brownie points with the boss - if only they could "save" us
all (from thinking, I guess.)
sa> I personally think the only niche prostitutes (male and female)
sa> fulfill is that of "disease vector", but folks utilising them risk
sa> a hell of a lot more than jail anyway. Child molestation is still
sa> worse, though.
FR> Yes, disease is the problem. But guys and gals who give it away for
FR> free are also factoring in greatly into the equation.
Of course; but most folks (of whatever orientation) don't wind up
having anywhere near as many partners a prostitute does. After
watching some (very young ones - about 12, I'd guess) outside my
apt building in Toronto a couple of evenings, I reckon each had an
average of 15 to 20 customers every night. The older ones (around
30) who plied the corner near my later place of work, on the other
side of Toronto, seemed to have less, but still seemed to average
about 5 to 10 a night. I suppose the main difference here is that
the teens were under the direction of a pimp (IMO, the absolute
lowest form of life on the planet, even below a fundy); the older
ones were not.
sa> (As an aside, I'd laugh like a hyaena if it were found Swaggart
sa> contracted AIDS from his little plaything. It would just be such
sa> poetic justice ..)
FR> And most every other Christian would pretend it's "god's curse." I
FR> would be mildly amused as well yet I would wait for the millions who
FR> would try to pray-away his HIV infection and _then_ laugh when they
FR> concoct justification for why Swaggart died anyway.
Yes, that would add immensely to the entertainment, wouldn't it?
:)
sa> Just because he's a Christian doesn't mean he can't be a pervert.
FR> Hell, I should have _expected_ it! }:-}
sa> :)
FR> Seriously, though. I should constantly hold in mind the hypocricy.
Mm. A sort of "do as I say, not as I do" situation, not unlike a
parent who tells their kids "Don't smoke" while holding a lit
cigarette in hand.
sa> To say the least ...
FR> I got about a dozen GIF files from several people on Internet. I
FR> still kept one called "KOAN1.GIF." I quite like it. }:-} I got rid
FR> of the rest but this one I'll keep. I showed it to the JW consultant
FR> at work and he liked it too. I gave him a copy. }:-}
Please be the first person in history to refrain from telling me
that which I do not wish to know -- don't describe the .gif. :P
sa> Why spend the money? Just keep reading Maria Russell's posts.
FR> Hey, that's "empty." Yet undeniably true.
Got any hoppers? :)
sa> Cripes, I thought I was badly cowed, back in the late 80s and
sa> early 90s; but at the very least, I wasn't bound by rigid
sa> theological beliefs - just a very low self-image. Thus, I was
sa> able to get out of it before I got killed ... would Maria be able
sa> to?
I doubt it. Hundreds of millions of people saw O. J. Simpson beat
his
FR> wife. Putting it into the perspective of one's own husband's
FR> beatings, I guess, just doesn't happen.
I suppose; and people _still_ think this Simpson person is some
sort of great guy, just because he plays football or basketball or
whatever it is well.
FR> I must opine that women don't leave abusive men for the primary reason
FR> that they have nowhere to go, no skills to market, and have their
FR> children's health and safety in mind (and thus continue to play
FR> herself and her children in danger.)
FR> Is it really low self-esteem that keeps women inside rather than
FR> financial bondage to the male?
I think it's a combination of all those factors, actually.
Some might even feel their families would ostracise them if they
split up the family, too, I guess. But face it; a bit of social
strife and winding up on welfare of mother's allowance or
something is a hell of a lot more preferable to being physically
violated day after day, week after week.
--Wolfie
"Wake me, shake me, tell me it's a dream,
I've got a B-52 on my TV screen
And a man in a tie, pointing to the sky,
Where you gonna run to now?"
--Redgum
... Full chorus of Aliens, Americans, Alanteans and other odd creatures
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
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PATH: 246/1002 1 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: If we're not being punished for something then life isn't being fair
|Date: 26 Feb 96 09:09:04
EID:d138 205a4920
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 31323d6e
A lone voice in the wilderness, Fredric mournfully howled out "If we're
not being punished for something then life isn't being fair"
FR> Lovely. It seems there's _nothing_ that Christians haven't
FR> taken from second-or-more generation variations of religions which
FR> predate theirs.
sa> Apparently not.
FR> I doubt if there's anything unique to the Christian religion. I'm
FR> reading "Gods & Myths" (note the bifurcation?) and came across yet
[snort]
FR> another "global flood" myth which predates the Babylonian/Sumerian
FR> myth.
I wouldn't be surprised. Hell, the Ganges floods, and people have
been hanging around that river since time immemorial. I imagine
people who settled around the Yellow, Volga, and Amazon Rivers
have some flood stories to recount that are quite old, as well.
sa> I was quite surprised to see your paragraph about "Satan" -
sa> I hadn't realised that such a view of him existed ...
sa> and I'm quite disgusted at the idea of Anubis being made
sa> equivalent to "the devil" in this case.
FR> ShyDavid had posted the links which, as I recall, didn't include the
FR> "Lucipher" link. As it stands, most Christians can't distinguish
FR> Dante's writings from their own myths nor contemporary entertainment
FR> shows like "The Exorcist" from their beliefs.
Heheheheh.
sa> It's bad enough they took the visage of Pan (who, of course,
sa> was never "evil", except perhaps to hunters he scared the shit
sa> out of in certain tales about him after he was moved from the
sa> shepherd's fields into the woods).
FR> Yes, they reworked Pan, damn them, into their own dark beliefs. Pan
FR> _did_ kidnap a woman he wanted and turned her into a panpipe to play,
FR> though. }:-}
The way I recall the story of Syrinx (the nymph in question), he
didn't kidnap her .. but he did try rather aggressively to win her
favour, so she kept taking running away, until she finally turned
herself into a reed as a last resort. Saddened by this, Pan cut
the reeds in the patch she transformed herself into, and made his
famous pipe. This is why the panflute is also called the syrinx
.. and the voicebox of birds is also technically termed the
"syrinx" (as opposed to larynx in mammals.) The wood nymph was
apparently quite the accomplished singer, and had a beautiful
voice.
sa> Anubis was never an "evil" god, either, though he was
sa> associated with death.
FR> Christian black-and-white mentality. "Death gods == bad, all others
FR> == good."
Even though the mythology of YHWH claims that he was responsible
for countless deaths and much suffering. Anubis didn't cause
death, at least; he was just there as a guide to those who died.
It was his responsibility to take souls where they needed to be,
and to ensure they got fair judgement by his weighing-scales.
The cartoon series "Gargoyles" actually had an interesting episode
involving Anubis himself; some nasties wanted to take control of
him to become his "avatar" and gain control over life and death.
Anubis himself was portrayed as ultimately fair and egalitarian,
and pointed out that death is the great equaliser - it comes to
kings and paupers alike, and that "the god of death cannot play
favourites." One of the fellows who took control of him actually
saw this truth, and reversed the damage caused by the first fellow
to take control of the diety [though, as Anubis originally
insisted, the dead cannot be brought back to life, leading to a
rather melancholy ending, in which avatar #2 not only didn't get
his son back, as he had wanted, but also died in a cave-in caused
by his own action. I love cartoons in which people can actually
buy it.] :)
--Wolfie
"Wake me, shake me, tell me it's a dream,
I've got a B-52 on my TV screen
And a man in a tie, pointing to the sky,
Where you gonna run to now?"
--Redgum
... The Face On Mars Is Laughing At People Who Believe In It.
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
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SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 246/1002 1 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: census
|Date: 26 Feb 96 09:25:05
EID:6221 205a4b20
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 31323d6f
A lone voice in the wilderness, Michael mournfully howled out "census"
MH> In fact, the Romans *did* require people to travel to their
MH> birthplace in order to register for a census. A census edict from
MH> Egypt, from 104 a.d., shows that they did just that. It begins: "Gaius
MH> Vibius Maximus, prefect of Egypt, says: The house-to-house census
MH> having started, it is essential that all persons who for any reason
MH> whatsoever are absent from their homes be summoned to return to their
MH> own hearths, in order that they perform the customary business of
MH> registration." ("A History of Rome Through the Fifth Century, ed.
MH> A.H.M. Jones, c. 1970, Harper and Row.)
That sounds more like what enumeration notices say these days -
"Enumerators will be coming around on such and such a day; please
be home so that you may be included on the elector's list. If you
are not on this list, you will not be allowed to vote." All you
have to do is be home - if you've moved from your city of birth,
you don't have to back there to be enumerated. In fact, it'd be a
mistake to do so, since you don't even live there any more. Same
thing with a census - it would make the count in error if people
were leaving their present city of residence to be counted. One
year I was registered for the federal vote, I was living in
Toronto; I wasn't required to go back to Windsor (my place of
birth) to be enumerated, and I was to vote in the riding in which
I currently resided. In fact, I move around so much, I've voted
in three or four different ridings already, and I have a feeling
I've moved to yet another, though I haven't checked on riding
boundaries yet, either federal or provincial. I don't expect that
the US census or enumeration authorities expect people to be
travelling back to wherever they're born, either, for such
purposes.
Therefore, it seems that the Romans were asking nothing more than
that people be home on a given day so that the census-takers could
make an accurate count of how many people currently reside in each
area/city. It makes no sense to register people for cities in
which they no longer reside; and "one's own hearth" refers to
nothing more than their current house and home. The Romans
weren't stupid; in fact, they were very good administrators and
would know better than to make people leave their current
residences to be counted, registered, or enumerated.
--Wolfie
"Wake me, shake me, tell me it's a dream,
I've got a B-52 on my TV screen
And a man in a tie, pointing to the sky,
Where you gonna run to now?"
--Redgum
... FILES=1 BUFFERS=0 FCBS=SAYWHAT BREAK=GIMME
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
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PATH: 246/1002 1 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Religions In Canada - Stats Can 1991
|Date: 26 Feb 96 18:30:00
EID:9e3e 205a93c0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 313349a6
A lone voice in the wilderness, J.J. mournfully howled out "Religions In
Canada - Stats Can 1991"
SA> Doukhobors: 4,820
JH> Those are the Christian nudists aint they?
They sound vaguely familiar ... Here's what my Webster's has to
say about 'em ..
"A member of a fanatical Russian religious sect, dating from the
second half of the 18th c. Their rejection of the Christian
sacraments, and of the dogmas of the Trinity and the divinity of
Christ, led to their persecution and exile (1843) to the remote
Caucasus. Many communities emigrated to W. Canada after 1898,
where their religious attitudes (similar to those of Quakers)
continued to bring them into conflict with the authorities."
SA> Methodist n.o.s.: 23,600
SA> Protestant n.o.s. 628,945
SA> Christian, n.o.s. 275,815
SA> Orthodox n.o.s: 79,285
SA> Other, n.e.c. 10,635
JH> I know that NOS is "not otherwise specified", but what in
JH> the hell is NEC ?
No idea, at the moment; I only copied the relevant pages and
didn't notice the goofy little abbreviations until I started
typing. I'll swing by the library sometime this week, though, and
look it up again.
--Wolfie
"Wake me, shake me, tell me it's a dream,
I've got a B-52 on my TV screen
And a man in a tie, pointing to the sky,
Where you gonna run to now?"
--Redgum
... I'd rather run with wolves than graze with sheep.
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
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PATH: 246/1002 1 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: A LITTLE HELP FROM SP
|Date: 26 Feb 96 18:53:01
EID:b6f2 205a96a0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 313349a7
A lone voice in the wilderness, Karen mournfully howled out "A LITTLE HELP
FROM SP"
SA> I never did understand that referene whenever it's come up. What
SA> the hell _is_ "Marco Polo" besides a dusty old Italian explorer
SA> who went to bother the Chinese and steal noodles?
KD> It's a game we played in the pool - one person blindfolded, the others
KD> not. The blindfolded person shouts Marco, the others, Polo, and the
KD> idea is for the blindfolded person to catch one of the others.
Ah ... the waterlogged version of Blind Man's Bluff ...
--Wolfie
"Wake me, shake me, tell me it's a dream,
I've got a B-52 on my TV screen
And a man in a tie, pointing to the sky,
Where you gonna run to now?"
--Redgum
... "He pities the plumage but forgets the dying bird." -- Paine
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: perservere [1/2] [1/2]
|Date: 26 Feb 96 18:55:02
EID:1609 205a96e0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 313349a8
>>> Part 1 of 2...
A lone voice in the wilderness, Dan mournfully howled out "perservere [1/2]"
DC> That's similar to what happens down here.
SA> Mm. The major difference, I think, is that parliamentary systems
SA> generally support more parties (ie, more parties have a chance of
DC> That is in a way a plus, but it can result in a rather fractured
DC> gvt.
And can result in some rather strange side-effects, like the
minority government. (One in which the winning party got more
votes total than any one other, but more people actually voted for
other parties overall than the winner. ie, a winning party might
have 43% of the vote, while the other two have 23% and 33% each.)
DC> how often are elections held? Are they regular? If I'm not
SA> The maximum term here is 5 years (it can be extended to 7 in
SA> wartime). Elections aren't regular, though, and can be called at
SA> any time before the 5 year deadline is up. An election could be
DC> Doesn't that cause a lot of problems with the uncertainty of
DC> an elected term?
Not really; no one's really concerned. We know it can't last
longer than 5 years before another election comes up, and we can
sit around grumbling "damnit, I wish they'd call a bloody election
so we can get rid of this asshole!" I, for one, wish we'd have an
early provincial election so we can have a shot at ejecting the
current party from power before they really put Ontario into the
shitter with all their goofy and unpopular privatisation schemes.
SA> party (the PCs) so pissed off at him, they voted non-confidence
SA> and Trudeau and his Liberals were voted back in. Needless to say,
DC> Now, what constitutes a who becomes PM? Is it via a majority,
DC> or is it just the leader of a plurality winner?
When a party needs/wants a new leader, they call a convention, in
which it votes on who it wants to be their party leader. When an
election comes up, if the party wins, the party leader
automatically becomes Prime Minister (or Premier, in the case of
provincial politics.) So, the party members get to vote on who
they want as their head honcho; if we like the guy and want him
running the show, we vote for his party representatives in our
home ridings. (ie, I liked Jean Chretien, so I voted for a guy
named Herb Gray - they belong to the same party, and a vote for
Gray is essentially also a vote for Chretien.)
Problems arise if the party leader doesn't win a seat in
Parliament - they run for election to a seat in the House, just
like anyone else. If, say, Chretien didn't win in his home riding
of Shawinigan (I think that's his riding), the Liberal Party would
have had to have found a new leader (but I'm not sure how they do
this - in my memory, this has never happened. Perhaps the second
guy in line gets it if he gets a seat, or else they simply hold
another convention and elect someone who DOES have a seat.) If
the party doesn't win, though, it isn't a problem. The
Progressive Conservatives only hold 2 seats in the house right now
- and neither member is the leader of the party. Anyway, you
obviously can't be Prime Minister if you don't have a seat in the
House.
SA> are few and far between; in my 27 years, there has only been ONE
SA> federal referendum, and that about altering the constitution to
DC> Here, that happens much more often.
SA> I've heard of the long lists of things to vote on every time an
SA> election of some sort comes around (which seems to be every year).
DC> Well, there never has been a Federal referendum here. However,
DC> there are a lot of local/state referendums.
Hm. My understanding is that questions are attached to the
regular "who you gonna vote for" sheet. Our referendums tend to
come seperately from regular elections.
SA> I wonder if endless bouts of voting is what discourages people
SA> from doing so? We have few elections/referenda, but an average of
DC> Lately, I think the reason for low voter turnout is that the
DC> Presidential elections seem to be rather a choice between the
DC> lesser of 2 we-evils.
Hehehehe. Yes, I can see that. :) It is kind of depressing,
though, when the country that holds the most power over the world
elects its leaders with less than a 50% turnout.
SA> a 75% or more voter turn-out, whereas I understand US voter
SA> participation is usually much lower.
DC> Adjusting voter turnout compared to potential voters, Clinton's
DC> "landslide" gave him only about 26% of the potential votes that
DC> could and should have been cast.
Yes - you discovered the major vagary of the three-party system,
with the inclusion of Ross Perot as a real contender. :)
SA> After I got my name on the list, they let me vote right then and
SA> there, a week before the actual election day.
DC> That's different!
Not really; they were already allowing "pre-polling" during that
time - proxy voting (for folks who aren't able to vote for
whatever reason, but are eligible anyway) and to allow folks who
aren't going to be in their home riding on election day.
Canadians overseas also get to vote in Federal elections a couple
of weeks early, so that their votes can be counted by election
day. (I asked about this at the embassy in Sydney while I was
there. You have to go to your nearest embassy or consulate to do
this, or to the nearest British embassy if no Canadian
representation is available in the country. Yes, we're still
under the protection of the Brits if we don't have any official
Canadian presence to turn to if needed. Our passports still have
the exhortation from the Queen via her representative to let us
in foreign countries.)
SA> favour now - please referesh my memory as to what the Electoral
SA> College is/does.
SA> It sounds vaguely sinister and cabalistic, though.
DC> Close... In the early days of the country, it made sense. The
DC> local people vote for their representatives to the Electoral
DC> College. Those College members would gather in New York to
DC> meet with the candidates. There they would hear the issues and
DC> vote for their choices, keeping in mind the needs of their
DC> constuencies that elected them.
DC> That made sense when the candidates could not possibly present
DC> their issues to the public in more than just a few states. Now,
DC> with the electronic media, it has long since passed it's usefulness.
Mm. Yes, I can see where that makes sense.
DC> In fact, most states don't allow the College members to vote
DC> for other than the single candidate that their state voted in
DC> the majority/plurality for. Yes, the President is not officially
DC> elected until the Electoral College members actually cast their votes.
DC> There is a rather interesting book that was written in the mid-60's
DC> on a major pitfall of the Electoral College. It's based on the
DC> Kennedy/Nixon squeaker. The President Elect comes from not either
>>> Continued to next message...
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: perservere [1/2] [2/2]
|Date: 26 Feb 96 18:55:03
EID:5209 205a96e0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 313349a9
>>> Part 2 of 2...
DC> of the 2 of the presidential candidates getting votes. In fact,
DC> the party he was in doesn't even have the plurality of popular
DC> votes, but there was a tie in the Electoral College votes.
I was, in fact, wondering about that - what if the College members
said to hell with it, and voted for whoever THEY wanted in?
SA> remember being taught the difference between a referendum and a
SA> plebescite in school. Only the latter is legally binding; the
DC> Referendum has the same force here as to what you term a plebescite.
Ahh. Heh. And I don't remember ANY plebescites being held during
my time on Earth. Heck, the only federal referendum I remember
was the one on the Charlottetown accord, where we voted on
changing the constitution (a resounding NO.) The Quebecois have
had a couple, though, both on whether or not to separate. The
last of those was just a few months ago (October) and was "non" by
a very, VERY close margin (less than 1%.) Scary.
--Wolfie
"Wake me, shake me, tell me it's a dream,
I've got a B-52 on my TV screen
And a man in a tie, pointing to the sky,
Where you gonna run to now?"
--Redgum
... The future isn't what it used to be.
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: perservere [2/2]
|Date: 26 Feb 96 19:21:04
EID:4267 205a9aa0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 313349aa
A lone voice in the wilderness, Dan mournfully howled out "perservere [2/2]"
SA> Huh. I suppose that's really nice, unless you have a schtinky
SA> law. :) Of course, some really good laws here get done away with
SA> much too quickly by pinheads in new regimes. I don't think
DC> That's why the Supreme Court actually works rather well. One
DC> of the most amazing justices was Earl Warren. He was chosen to
DC> give political favors but actually voted his conscience. That's
DC> something that has gotten far to rare of late.
I'm a bit wary of politicians "voting their conscience". The last
time Parliament voted on whether or not to bring back capital
punishment, most politicians decided they'd "vote their
conscience" and vote against it, even though polls indicated a
majority endorsed "bringing back the rope", as it were, at least
in the most heinous cases. Whatever my feeling about it, I don't
think it was right of them to go against the constituency's
wishes. [Frankly, I wouldn't mind seeing the worst offenders swing
- like Clifford Olsen, who murdered a dozen children and extorted
$100,000 to reveal where he buried the bodies and is now
threatening the survivors with lawsuits from his protected prison
cell, or Paul Bernardo, the sicko convicted of a couple of
sex-murders of teenagers, notably Kristen French. These guys can
never be rehabilitated, and the money spent making their prison
lives comfortable and safe could be better spent on health care or
other social services to serve the honest poor and the ordinary
citizen.]
SA> for a total of 16 years before he retired . He was PM
SA> for as long as I could remember (being born the year he was
SA> first elected) and it sort of seemed like he was the
DC> Same as with me and Ike. Took me a while to realize that _Hail
DC> to the Chief_ was not written just for him. The telling thing
DC> was the song written for Nixon: _Jail for the Chief_.
ROFL! I remmeber the joke, too, that the Beatles' "Fool on the
Hill" was written for Nixon, as well. :)
SA> of the few French phrases I retain in my brain because it's in a
SA> Rush song I've always liked, from their "Hemispheres" album. :)
DC> Left or right?
:) Well, second side, anyway. :)
SA> ... "Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room!"
DC> Oooh, very strange, luv.... Like it!
Hehehe. That line always gives me a good giggle when I see it.
Don't forget to protect your "vital bodily fluids". :)
--Wolfie
"Wake me, shake me, tell me it's a dream,
I've got a B-52 on my TV screen
And a man in a tie, pointing to the sky,
Where you gonna run to now?"
--Redgum
... "Mein Fuehrer! I can WALK!" - Dr. Strangelove
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: Steve Wallis
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Re: FOF UPDATE, STAAL
|Date: 01 Mar 96 07:41:00
EID:c4a2 20613d20
MSGID: 1:246/15 313012BE
DM> SW> I doubt it. More like a well established Christian organization
DM> that
DM> SW> has stood its ground when attacked by the whimsical antics of
DM> the
DM> SW> devil and his demons.
DM>
DM> Fascinating. Have you any evidence for the existence of
DM> this devil and/or his demons outside of human imagination? I
DM> presume that you also have some documentation of attacks
DM> being made upon the FOF by said devil and/or demons since
DM> you assert that this has taken place: please present it
DM> here.
DM>
The devil is a manipulater Dan, he masquarades and tries to control people
through deception, lies and trickery. he is the coward of cowards-once an
angel-now nothing. Did you ever here the tune Stairway to Heaven? of course
you have-there's a lyric in there that says "sometimes all of our thoughts
are misgiven." The devil try's to camaflouge the minds of people to keep
them from seeing the truth. How can you fight an enemy you cant see? You
cant. Unless the blindfold was removed and you opened your eyes than you'd
see clearly enough to fight and stand your ground.
Did you ever see that movie "They Live"? Its about a counterfit alien organization
that clever disguises themselves as humans so that nobody can tell that
their there. Only the people who have some special glasses can see the truth
and they end up going to war against the counterfeit aliens and finally
destroy them.
Like wise the devil has mastered the art of camaflouge but if you dont have
the bliindfolds removed and Christ helping you to see then you wont know
if what I say holds water or not-in fact you'd be non the wiser. Until everthings
explained in the next world but what will happen to you then?
Rent the movie "They Live" and check it out-its a good flick. Roddy Rowdy
Piper(remeber that dude)stars in it. Blockbuster should have it. Anyways,
have a good one and Godbless.
May God send His angelic Host to remove the blindfolds from you.
take care,
Steve
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: Paul Churchill
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: Re: AN INTERESTING SITUATION.
|Date: 01 Mar 96 16:44:00
EID:b0d9 20618580
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 31376fab
JJH> The Juicy Truth? (oh, boy!)
AG> Thanks for picking up my typo. Here is the correct text:-
AG> In 1938 there was 15,688,259 Jews in the world - according to the
AG> World Almanac for 1947. This figure was given to the World Almanac
AG> by the American Jewish Committee and the Jewish Statistical Bureau
AG> of of the Synagogues of America.
AG> In 1948 there were between 15,600,000 and 18,700,000 Jews in the
AG> world according to an article in the New York Times of February 22,
AG> 1948 by Mr. Hanson W. Baldwin, a recognized wholly impartial expert
I must admit, I am really puzzled by you. I am not sure if you are
truly stuipid enough to believe this shit, or like Zundel (been arrested
again BTW) know its not true, but are so bigoted you spread it anyways.
Here is the flaw in your logic. Both ESTIMATES were probably arrived
at by different means. By your brain dead logic I could easily conclude
that
half the homosexual population of Canada has died of aids in the past 5
years because of one individual refering to %10 percent of the population,
while others refer to 4 or 5%. Or, that 30-40% of the home computers in
Canada were aducted by aliens over the past few because one estimate included
video games, while the other didn't......this should be easily grasped
by a six yearold, I hope you can.
... Catch the Blue Wave!
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: Paul Churchill
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Re: goodbye old friend
|Date: 01 Mar 96 16:44:01
EID:017a 20618580
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 31376fac
-=> Quoting Judith Bandsma to All <=-
JB>
JB>
JB>
JB>
JB> ÛÛÛÛÛÛ» ÛÛ» ÛÛÛÛÛÛ»
JB> ÛÛÉÍÍÛÛ» ÛÛº ÛÛÉÍÍÛÛ»
JB> ÛÛÛÛÛÛɼ ÛÛº ÛÛÛÛÛÛɼ
JB> ÛÛÉÍÍÛÛ» ÛÛº ÛÛÉÍÍͼ
JB> ÛÛº ÛÛº ÛÛº ÛÛº
JB> Èͼ Èͼ Èͼ Èͼ
JB>
JB>
JB> 1st Ammendment to the Constitution of the United States of America
JB>
JB> 1776-1996
JB>
Sorry to say I have been way to busy to keep track of this debate
down there in States.....does this mean I can swear at David Worrell, but
he can't swear back ? :)
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: Paul Churchill
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Re: Epilepsy
|Date: 01 Mar 96 16:44:02
EID:8c54 20618580
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 31376fad
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to All <=-
DC>
DC> I have a friend who's child has epilepsy. He's 4 yrs old and
DC> has Complex/Partial Atonic Seizures, aka "Drop Attacks. He's
DC> currently taking Mysoline.
DC> Does anyone know of a better treatment?
DC> Also, is there another Echo that may be more appropriate for
DC> getting additional information on this subject?
I know there was a Fido epilepsy..I think its still arround.
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: Paul Churchill
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: Re: hey, i'm new
|Date: 01 Mar 96 16:44:03
EID:4c12 20618580
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 31376fae
AG> Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
FR> If you're a nazi, yes.
AG> Are you a Nazi? I should think that is nothing to be proud of.
You should, but you don't!
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: Paul Churchill
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Re: a miracle in the making
|Date: 01 Mar 96 16:44:04
EID:6e86 20618580
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 31376faf
-=> Quoting Sue Armstrong to Robert Jackson <=-
SA> A lone voice in the wilderness, Robert mournfully howled out "@S"
RJ> I've never heard anyone say anything good about haggis, but
RJ> people still continue to eat the things. Seeing as how I've
RJ> eaten unusual things in the past, ranging from raw sea urchin
RJ> to Vegemite--I can't see how haggis could be the worst thing.
SA>
SA> NOTHING is worse than Vegemite. Even the SMELL of that crap sends
SA> me running for the bathroom. One thing I noticed about that stuff
SA> - you have to be raised on it to tolerate (or, horrors, LIKE it).
You left out the part where you told the guy who sent it to you
that you liked it :-)
... Catch the Blue Wave!
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: Paul Churchill
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Re: The Constitution of the USSR, 1977 part1
|Date: 25 Feb 96 06:46:05
EID:2639 205935c0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 31376fb0
SA>
SA> Source: The Constitutions of the Communist World, 1981
SA> Translated by F.J.M Feldbrugge and William B. Simons.
SA>
(entire Soviet constitution omited)
Gee, now just why would you have this lying arround comrade Wolfie ?
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: Andrew Naim
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: Re: artificial reproduction
|Date: 02 Mar 96 11:44:00
EID:0b2a 20625d80
MSGID: 1:246/15 31319D2E
But do you really think God wants this to happen? I mean like this isn't
something like taking out a certain chromosome in a tomato so they are riper
for an extra week. This artificial reproduction of humans can make a monstrous
amount of overpopulation. There is already enough , poor , hungry , and
sad people around , adding this overpop. just makes it harder , and harder
for people to understand why problems like poverty and stuff can't be stopped...
God once said "treat others as you want to treated"
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: Steve Wallis
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Re: fof update, staal
|Date: 03 Mar 96 07:51:00
EID:61f4 20633e60
MSGID: 1:246/15 3132B7FC
KD> SW>has stood its ground when attacked by the whimsical antics of the
KD> SW>devil and his demons.
KD>
KD> Here we go again. Gonna cast out the demons again, Steve?
KD>
If the Lord tells me to I will. Its called authority and command. I have
it, the devil dont. But, not all know such things. OR know ye not that?
KD> SW>Its been praised for Helping a good many souls come to Christ.
KD>
KD> So will a 9mm. What's your point?
Funny. Point is-Focus on the Family is rooted in Christ. There's not a gun
powerful enough to destroy it or knock it down. There doing there all to
serve Christ the best they can and will recieve their reward for doin gso.
If they wanted to please the world, you wouldnt be against them. But as
it is, their not serving the world, their serving Christ. And so am I.
KD> FOF is a bigoted, homophobic, hateful organization. I've tried
KD> reading
KD> some of their stuff, but I can't. It sickens me.
KD>
If you cant seem to read their stuff-then why jump to conclusions and rule
it out? Focus on the Family is a morally based Christian organization guy.
There's no hate in it. Its about love for others. It doesnt go around trying
to spread the message of hate but love. Listen to one of their programs
on your local Christian radio station. Where do you hear them talking about
hate? They dont.
KD> SW>Who are you to make a railing accusation aganst
KD> SW>them? Do you really think your better?
KD>
KD> Yes, I do.
Then your a joke. Your no better than anyone guy, and you know I just said
the truth. If any man thinks himself to be more than what he is he decieves
himself. On what standard to you judge FOF?
KD> SW>accusation wont stand. Focus on the Family is here to stay.
KD>
KD> Just like AIDS and venereal disease.
Aids and venereal disease is sickness. Why would you compare Christ's Church
to something that is unclean?
KD>
KD> Hmmmm . . . maybe we'll get lucky and they'll be raptured.
Let me ask you this-when the rapture happens-what will you think then? Will
you finally believe the accounts in the BIble-or will you believe the lie
that the world will try to get you to believe? Lets say the rapture happens
today. And the world says "UFO's did it" would you believe the world or
the Bible? For when the rapture does happen, it says in the bIble that strong
delusion will overcome the world. Just curious to hear your answer.
Godbless
Steve
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: John Oliver
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: fof update, staal
|Date: 03 Mar 96 11:14:00
EID:3f93 206359c0
MSGID: 1:246/148@fidonet 1f8aeefb
REPLY: 1:246/15 3132B7FC
PID: QE 2.80 Zeta 1+ & FM 2.12.SW UNREG
> KD> SW>has stood its ground when attacked by the whimsical antics of
the
> KD> SW>devil and his demons.
> KD>
> KD> Here we go again. Gonna cast out the demons again, Steve?
> KD>
> If the Lord tells me to I will. Its called authority and command. I have
> it, the devil dont. But, not all know such things. OR know ye not that?
> KD> SW>Its been praised for Helping a good many souls come to Christ.
> KD>
> KD> So will a 9mm. What's your point?
> Funny. Point is-Focus on the Family is rooted in Christ. There's not a
> gun powerful enough to destroy it or knock it down. There doing there
> all to serve Christ the best they can and will recieve their reward for
> doin gso. If they wanted to please the world, you wouldnt be against
> them. But as it is, their not serving the world, their serving Christ.
> And so am I.
> KD> FOF is a bigoted, homophobic, hateful organization. I've tried
> KD> reading
> KD> some of their stuff, but I can't. It sickens me.
> KD>
> If you cant seem to read their stuff-then why jump to conclusions and
> rule it out? Focus on the Family is a morally based Christian
> organization guy. There's no hate in it. Its about love for others. It
> doesnt go around trying to spread the message of hate but love. Listen
> to one of their programs on your local Christian radio station. Where
do
> you hear them talking about hate? They dont.
> KD> SW>Who are you to make a railing accusation aganst
> KD> SW>them? Do you really think your better?
> KD>
> KD> Yes, I do.
> Then your a joke. Your no better than anyone guy, and you know I just
> said the truth. If any man thinks himself to be more than what he is he
> decieves himself. On what standard to you judge FOF?
> KD> SW>accusation wont stand. Focus on the Family is here to stay.
> KD>
> KD> Just like AIDS and venereal disease.
> Aids and venereal disease is sickness. Why would you compare Christ's
> Church to something that is unclean?
> KD>
> KD> Hmmmm . . . maybe we'll get lucky and they'll be raptured.
> Let me ask you this-when the rapture happens-what will you think then?
> Will you finally believe the accounts in the BIble-or will you believe
> the lie that the world will try to get you to believe? Lets say the
> rapture happens today. And the world says "UFO's did it" would you
> believe the world or the Bible? For when the rapture does happen, it
> says in the bIble that strong delusion will overcome the world. Just
> curious to hear your answer.
Steve, FOF, as a right-wing Christian organization, is anti-gay, anti-liberal,
anti-free thinking etc.
Religion, ethics, philosophy all have to do with making judgements over
what is right or wrong, good or bad, and such judgements are based on cultural,
religious, linguistic, and personal experiences which are entirely subjective
by nature. As such, determining whether someone is committing a sin is always
going to be a debatable point as one applies it to a individual as oppose
to a group experience.
Aids and venereal disease are not sicknesses, they are as you said, disease's.
Disease, and the common cold and the rest are afflictions that affect all
animals on our Earth, they are not the work of some demon or a God.
To claim otherwise, is to state that as a human being we are vunerable and
responsible for many of the ills that has happened to us throughout time.
The bad things we blame Satan or the Devil, when good things happen will
thank God for giving us strenght for overcoming adversity. I am a religious
person myself, but I do not ascribe to the belief that Satan must exit so
that we do good. Many of the really evil things that have been committed
such as the Holocost, was done by God fearing men who believed they were
doing Gods will. Pretty hard to accept isn't it.
Under the venear of culture, we humans are little afraid children who still
believe in ghosts, and goblins and things that go bump in the night. Many
of us have opened our eyes and found that the superstitions we have believed
are not real, and many of the values we believed were right are in fact
quite wrong.
In my opinion FOF is a bigoted, homophobic, hatefull organization with their
own agenda at stake, and heaven help us all if they ever get the type of
influence they believe they should have.
John
---
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: CHURCHES
|Date: 04 Mar 96 10:53:00
EID:a61e 206456a0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
AS> Ever notice that Job never really gets an answer from God? Basically
AS> the answer of God is that "there are some things men are not meant to
AS> know", Dr. Frankenstein.
I see it as a power trip. "Who are you to question me? I'm bigger,
stronger, etc." A typical bully response.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: FLOOD
|Date: 04 Mar 96 11:00:00
EID:4a37 20645800
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
AS> (with the slight qualifications above) are irrelevant. But the
AS> disciples, the apostles, knew the truth, one way or the other. They
Not necessarily.
AS> either knew that Jesus rose or stayed dead and they pulled a hoax. If
Or someone hoaxed THEM.
AS> they did the latter, they were flogged--willingly--for a hoax, in some
AS> cases imprisoned, in some cases killed (James the son of Zebedee,
AS> James the brother of Jesus) for what they KNEW was a lie. If the
AS> former there are two choices: either they underwent a mass
Three choices.
AS> hallucination...and hallucinations are invariably singular, to undergo
AS> one would be a miracle every bit as much as the Resurrection...or,
AS> they told the truth. And even there, in the last case, we can say,
Or thought they were telling the truth.
AS> either they were hoaxed, or they saw what actually happened. A fraud
AS> would involve so much conspiracy at so many levels...the piercing of
AS> the side was to ensure He WAS dead, remember...He was in the eyes of
AS> society a dangerous rabble-rouser to whom it was in the interest of
AS> both Pilate and the Sanhedrin to put six feet under. They would have
AS> to buy off the centurions
AS> who worked for Pilate, the guards around the tomb, perhaps Pilate
AS> himself.
AS> And if it wasn't the disciples, who certainly weren't wealthy, who do
AS> we pick? Nicodemus? I've examined that theory for a while, and
AS> rejected on various reasons. So we are left with...
AS> That they told the truth.
All we need is Jesus and a very few others, NOT including the disciples.
RH> But you have been given many examples from modern times of people
RH> who have willingly died for obviously (to us) false beliefs.
AS> But not for a GROUP witnessing of an impossible thing. Which is
AS> exactly what the disciples had.
BS. Thousands witnessed the sun dancing in the sky, an impossible
event. I saw the Statue of Liberty vanish into thin air, an
impossible event.
... Do what you will with this tagline, just don't bother me about it!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: LIBRARIES
|Date: 04 Mar 96 11:05:00
EID:b331 206458a0
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> You mean like "You may worship me or not, but you'll burn in hell
RH> if you don't"?
AS> No. That's something a little different. If an engineer has to take
a
If God does it, it's OK? Murder, rape, pillage, all OK if
He orders it?
AS> bridge apart, it would be criminal for him NOT to put up a "Bridge
AS> Out" sign. Now, if someone drives by in a car, plainly sees the sign,
AS> and keeps
AS> driving...is the engineer forcing him IN ANY WAY? (Besides, if you
False analogy. God created hell and orders you there for the slightest
infraction.
AS> will examine Romans you will see that one's conscience can be an
AS> advocate before God for the pagans, so I think it is certainly
AS> conceivable...indeed, my own opinion...that a non-Christian or
AS> non-theist could still end up in a blissful afterlife for what he has
AS> done during life.)
Hard to justify biblically, since "no one comes to the Father...".
... My other computer is a VAX.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: CHURCHES
|Date: 04 Mar 96 11:26:00
EID:a61e 20645b40
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Fredric Rice <=-
rh> I thought the heathens had got you.
FR> We have.
AS> Now, what are you going to do with me? (Gentle smile.)
AS> I know, you will probably say, "educate me out of my superstition".
AS> But we will see who educates WHO.
Let the games BEGIN!
Al holds the distinction of being the only intelligent theist
in Holy_Smoke. Let's use him wisely. Razors only; no bludgeons.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
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|From: Roger Hunter
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: GAY LOVE
|Date: 04 Mar 96 11:51:00
EID:b980 20645e60
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Rob Burcham <=-
AS> and be the hand of your own destruction. We do not ask to live. Why
AS> should we choose how we die?
Why not? Death with dignity, perhaps? Honor, perhaps?
AS> from MY point of view, I see something rather ironic. In practically
AS> every other mythology, and in most of my religion, God judges man.
AS> This is the
AS> only regligous story I can think of where a God submitted to the
AS> judgement
AS> of Man. No other god played so magnificently fair with mankind.
Jesus thought he could force YHVH's hand if he deliberately fulfilled
all the prophecies about the messiah. That's why he had to die.
Or at least APPEAR to die....
AS> But it was a POTENTIAL baby and child.
Does not matter. Human life is superabundant. We do not need to
preserve everything that MIGHT become human.
AS> Of course. But a plurality of explanations does not rule out one of
AS> them being true. There have been many explanations for how the
AS> universe is structured over the centuries, from the geocentric view
of
AS> Ptolemy to the current view of a universe that began with a Big Bang
AS> and contains hundreds of billions of galaxies. Not all of them can be
AS> right, but that doesn't mean one of them can't be.
It also does not establish that any of them IS true either.
AS> But look at the history of such movements. Look at the ten thousand
AS> religious movements that have sprung up. How many claim eyewitness of
AS> a miracle at the core? Surely, if it was as easy as all that to
AS> convince others that their leader was resurrected, we would have a LOT
AS> of religions
AS> making that claim? And yet...there are many religions that claim a
AS> dying/reborn god/savior, but none of them have eyewitnesses. (Adonis.
Koresh. Some of his people still believe in him. They say he is alive
and in hiding.
AS> Try getting a dozen schizophrenics to agree on what the voices are
AS> saying. Hallucinations are VERY individual.
But when such people discuss what they saw, a concensus will be reached
and believed by all. (zealots, not schizos)
... "Milhouse, we live in the age of cooties!" - Bart Simpson
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: The Grotto - Arvada, CO - (303) 421-7186 - V.34 (1:104/251)
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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Kenneth Cavness
|Sub: Re: Big bird
|Date: 04 Mar 96 14:06:51
EID:d9b6 206470c0
MSGID: 1:352/266 313BAFC6
KC> with their "One of these things is not like the other, one of these
KC> thingsis not the same".
Hey, I do like that better. I was trying to get people to see how taking
one part of a program and building a case from it can be groundless. It
is taking the whole show in context that we gain the true picture. So often
I've seen organizations take a phrase and twist it into a damaging statement
where none was ment.
My preference is celebrate the diveristy. One of these things is not the
same... but all are wonderful.
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Kenneth Cavness
|Sub: Second gen. fundies
|Date: 04 Mar 96 14:09:12
EID:d231 20647120
MSGID: 1:352/266 313BAFC7
KC> I am fully convinced that there are few second-generation fundies.
KC> Mostpeople born into the churches quickly become disillusioned by the
KC> hypocrisy.
I'd have to say most of the people I know would seem to verify that suggestion.
However, I do know a few who are still following parental leads in religion,
but most of those aren't what I'd call fundies, but more open minded religious/spiritual
persons.
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Cookies as cures.
|Date: 04 Mar 96 14:12:04
EID:3859 20647180
MSGID: 1:352/266 313BAFC8
MM> discussions with my father that helped me evaluate my own value
MM> system.... and now that I think of it.... a lot of those were over
MM> fresh hot chocolate chip cookies.... Tollhouse in fact.
DC> For someone claiming to try to stick to the facts and the ideologies,
DC> you are doing a miserable job. Good thing that you aren't trying
DC> to bake John on a cookie sheet to make an example out of him.
Ok, so I got a bit nostalgic on that one. Chocolate addiction probably.
It's the hostility that I get most uncomfortable with, but thanks for dragging
me back from the Norman Rockwell frame of mind.
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Incentives
|Date: 04 Mar 96 14:15:14
EID:a828 206471e0
MSGID: 1:352/266 313BAFC9
DC> Thing is, no extraneous gods are required, nor needed to
DC> enforce the deed on penalty of death.
right, different incentives. One is internally set, the other supported
by external sources... Laws come into the outer sources for some people,
others are able to determine what is ..well.. wise to do.
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Get This...DIFFERENT DOES NOT EQUAL WRONG!! (1:352/266)
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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: of "bats" and "birds"
|Date: 04 Mar 96 14:17:48
EID:61e7 20647220
MSGID: 1:352/266 313BAFCA
DC> I'll grant you that. That's why education is the most important
DC> thing that any individual can undergo and encourage.
I have a bumper sticker over my computer that says, "If you think education
is expensive, try ignorance." I believe each person should be exposed to
as much information as possible then make their own choices.
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Educate
|Date: 04 Mar 96 14:24:10
EID:fff2 20647300
MSGID: 1:352/266 313BAFCB
DC> Yet, this society has been gearing towards a religious bent for
DC> some time now.
Yep, I've noticed.
DC> That's the key. Information is what is being repressed by the
DC> Religious Reich.
Again I agree that it seems that the current attitude is suppress anything
someone is uncomfortable with. I do NOT support censorship.
DC> Sorry, I don't do proofs. I leave them to mathematicians, distillers
Hey, maybe I ought to learn from this one. If one realizes there are things
that can't be proved and yet exist it leaves a mind a bit open?
DC> After you have been here a while, you will find that it's a way to
DC> get rid of some of the frustration level that you get from talking
DC> to stone heads. You will notice that Al and I generally have
Ok, you choose to do it your way, I'll use the "next" function if I reach
that frustration level. (I don't really frustrate that easily.. heck I
even raised a teenager.)
Thanks for the posts, and I'm not a bit afraid of being made to think. It's
good exercise for the mind.
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
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|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Giggle
|Date: 04 Mar 96 14:25:36
EID:c8ca 20647320
MSGID: 1:352/266 313BAFCC
MM> Answering nude seems to work well too.
AS> That was YOU??? (Sorry, couldn't resist...)
Gosh, I didn't recognize you ! (I knew that would be hard to resist )
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Get This...DIFFERENT DOES NOT EQUAL WRONG!! (1:352/266)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: GAY LOVE [2]
|Date: 04 Mar 96 06:23:32
EID:759c 206432e0
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 3e892e1e
REPLY: 1:116/19 02C4292E
On (02 Mar 96) Al Schroeder wrote to Rob Burcham...
RB> chosen to express their intrinsic need for myths.
AS> And isn't that intrinsic need ITSELF a little odd? I could
AS> see several cultures thinking such, but one would think...
AS> unless it reflects something real...that there would be other
AS> cultures which would dispense with myths entirely. Even
AS> cultures seperated by literally ten thousand years from any
AS> possible contact, like the Aztec and the Greco-Roman world,
AS> feel the need for dieties and creation myths and saviors.
This is a VERY weak argument, Al. The "reason" so many diverse
cultures have had a need for myth is simple: they have questions
they can't answer. Have you ever had something that was sticking
in your craw? something that kept plaguing you to the point where
you couldn't adequately concentrate on other issues? something
that made it difficult to do the things you must do in order to be
effective in life? Most of us have. We will be doing our jobs and,
suddenly it occurs to us that our mind has wandered onto the
question that seems to have no answer.
When that occurs, myth can be a very useful tool to putting the
matter at rest so we can get on with our more mundane existences.
If one is privileged enough to be able to spend one's life
exploring such questions, as are philosophers and scientists, well
and good. But for most of us these cosmic unanswerables merely
make our lives more difficult until we have some sort of an answer
that will put the question to rest in our minds. So, along comes
the mythmakers, more than happy to accommodate us to that end.
The "need" for myth would have been even greater among ancient
peoples who had so many more unanswerable questions than we do. It
is clear that myths did not arise out of some basic need for
religion, but rather religion arose out of some basic need for
myth.
... A black Santa Claus singing . . . Christmas rap.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: Christianity
|Date: 04 Mar 96 16:19:37
EID:92a1 20648260
MSGID: 1:207/212 68f892a3
REPLY: 1:138/255.0 313a216b
On (02 Mar 96) Andrew Masten wrote to Jim Germiquet...
AM> Many who comment on this echo, don't just disbelieve in God, but
AM> loathe the God they claim they don't believe in.
Consider it along the lines of "I wouldn't worship that guy even if he
was shown to exist."
... Greta Gump.........I vant to be a box of chocolates
--- PPoint 1.98
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|From: Steve Wallis
|To: John Oliver
|Sub: Re: fof update, staal
|Date: 05 Mar 96 02:37:00
EID:8a63 206514a0
MSGID: 1:246/15 31351150
JO> Religion, ethics, philosophy all have to do with making judgements
JO> over what is right or wrong, good or bad, and such judgements are
JO> based on cultural, religious, linguistic, and personal experiences
JO> which are entirely subjective by nature. As such, determining whether
JO> someone is committing a sin is always going to be a debatable point
JO> as one applies it to a individual as oppose to a group experience.
JO>
Well if you dont belive in the Bible than how can you judge what is moral
or not? What would you base your ethics on? The Bible declares God's laws
and tells us that when we break them-we sin. God established them, so that
we would have a set of moral standards to live by and that we would know
God and how to live a moral life.
JO> Aids and venereal disease are not sicknesses, they are as you said,
JO> disease's. Disease, and the common cold and the rest are afflictions
JO> that affect all animals on our Earth, they are not the work of some
JO> demon or a God.
JO>
Now in the Bible, Jesus cast out demons of infirmities and sickness. Im
not saying every single disease that happens is from the devil, but that
the devil is a masquerader. The devils power is in his lie.
JO> To claim otherwise, is to state that as a human being we are
JO> vunerable and responsible for many of the ills that has happened to
JO> us throughout time. The bad things we blame Satan or the Devil, when
JO> good things happen will thank God for giving us strenght for
JO> overcoming adversity. I am a religious person myself, but I do not
JO> ascribe to the belief that Satan must exit so that we do good. Many
JO> of the really evil things that have been committed such as the
JO> Holocost, was done by God fearing men who believed they were doing
JO> Gods will. Pretty hard to accept isn't it.
Mankind fell into sin when Eve ate the forbidden fruit. Now, what God decided
to do was rescue man from the clutches of sin. So God had to establish a
Law first. (A code of ethics of how to live and a morally based Law that
was not to be broken). Before we had the Law, no one had a standard of living
to stand and live by, so since we didnt have one, God couldnt have rescued
us. So, He gave us the Law. But it wasnt complete yet. Now since we have
the Law, and a moral code of conduct, God sent Christ to die for us to remove
sin from us once and for all(Everthing contrary to the Law was sin). So
becuase of Christ's sacrifice, God has completed His plan to save sinfull
nan from the clutches of the devil. But in order to get the gift that God
provided you have to be willing to recieve it and that means recieving Christ
as Your saviour and Lord.
Godbless!
Steve
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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|From: Alan Hess
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Re: Evidence
|Date: 04 Mar 96 18:08:41
EID:2677 20649100
Whilst masticating on , Martin Goldberg (1:124/9005.221)
wrote to Jim Germiquet:
MG> This is not what I said and I beg you to reread the quote above.
MG> Your god does not just let people live a long full life and then
MG> cause them to die. Soem he starves to death in a few short
MG> years. sometimes he starves them for many years. Or kills them
MG> with a childhood leukemia. Perhaps he causes them to go mad with
MG> the rigors of life so that they take their own life. What I wnat
MG> to know is why your loving god sticks it to us so badly. The
The Bible thumpers often come up with the "God gave us free will" rationale
to explain why some people choose to do things that lead to bad consequences
(not that the ordeals you mention above result from choices.) Anyway, when
asked why their God doesn't stop people from making those choices, they
claim that doing so would remove our free will. I disagree. Follow:
Suppose you have a child who always wants to open your medicine cabinet
and toss bottles down to his sibling. You know that's not a good idea,
but you can't convince the kid to leave the cabinet alone. So, you make
it impossible for him to open the cabinet (lock it, child-proof it, whatever.)
By doing that, you haven't taken away the kid's free will to choose to open
the cabinet - all you've done is make sure he can't succeed after making
that choice. If God is all powerful, he could do the same thing - allow
people free will to make choices, but ensure that innocents are not harmed
by those bad choices. Being omnipotent, God knows what the choices will
be, and should thus be able to protect the innocent.
--- MsgedSQB/2 3.30.02
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
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PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801
|From: Terry Liberty-Parker
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Waco Rememberance.1
|Date: 04 Mar 96 10:17:50
EID:483b 20645220
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 13b0ab42
Norbert Sykes wrote in a message to Terry Liberty-Parker:
NS> Terry Liberty-Parker > Norbert Sykes : Waco Rememberance.1
NS> Hey, the military isn't paid to think. That doesn't excuse
NS> them, but get a clue.
NS>
TL> Get a clue about the Nuremberg trials. Now show us how much you know.
NS>
NS> Your point of this being . . . ??? Are you somehow
NS> equivocating less than a thousand Branch Davidians with
NS> almost 6 million jews?
TL> ROTFLMAO!!!!!! Well, I asked you to show us how much you know and
TL> you obliged. Wahahahahaahah!!!!!!!!!!!
NS> You obviously (now that I see this, your response note)
NS> intended for this [to] refer to the "I was following orders"
NS> part of said Nuremberg Trials.
Halalulya!!! He acknowledges a point made several posts ago. Yer right
on top of things, arn't you.
NS> Yet you didn't make it clear, thereby completing a leap in
NS> logic that was clear to only you.
and anyone who dosn't have a vacuum inserted where their brain is supposed
to be.
NS> Unless you expected me to read your mind?
Only text reading by anyone with a reasonable background knowledge of the
world; something you were lacking, evidently.
NS> Yet, obviously, you are equating Waco with Nazi
NS> Germany in your statement, above,
Not me. If you are attempting to 'read my mind,' you missed.
NS> even if that wasn't your intention.
You DID read my mind.
NS> How can you justify such a comparrison?
Since that's not a comparison I made and I can't 'read your mind,' you'll
have to just outright tell us how YOU 'make such a comparison.'
NS> Are you naturally clueless, or did you have to work for this
NS> level of enlightenment?
TL> tediously explains.... Nueremburg was the site of the Nazi war crimes
NS> Wouldn't need to make tedious explanations if had been clear
NS> from the start . . .
Hey, some people with shit for brains are clueless even when you hand them
the clue.
TL> trials and the reference is not intended to be 'equivocating less than
TL> a thousand Branch Davidians with almost 6 million Jews.' I am
TL> referring to a commn defense attempted by Nazis at these trials, which
TL> was 'I was just following orders.'
NS> I know all about this. But thanx for reminding me.
TL> It didn't exonerate them anymore than it exonerates the govt
TL> agents who followed orders to run tanks thru a residence
TL> occupied by men, women and children.
NS> So you doubt that the agents were in actuality operating to
NS> try to save lives?
Drive tank thru residence occupied with kids to SAVE the kids thus causing
some of said kids to die that way?
You're right, I'm 'clueless' as to how those 'agents were in actuality operating
to try to save lives.' If I want to 'save' a kid, it would just never occur
to me to drive a tank thru that kids home with the kid still IN the home.
NS> And another thing, do you have any idea if the agents there
NS> were operating within the parameters of the rules for such a
NS> confrontation or not?
There are no Constitutionally allowed 'rules' that include driving a tank
thru a residence occupied by men, women and children.
NS> And, what you ignore most of all is that it was David Koresh
NS> that was the cause of all of this.
Oh yes, I forgot. His spirit wafted out of the window and into the tank
and then drove the tank thru the residence. I guess us 'clueless' ones
have trouble envisioning that.
NS> He brainwashed these people, he held them captive, he raped
NS> and molested them, he emperiled them, he lead directly to many
NS> of their deaths. Yet you run away from this point constant,
Let me spell this out H E IS D E A D and H E N E V E R W O R K E D
FOR US!!! You are obsessing on a dead white guy; he can't hurt anyone;
GET IT.
NS> somehow thinking that it was the Government workers, aka tank
NS> drivers, who were at fault, when they were clearly following
NS> the law of the country.
What 'country' do you live in?
There is NO United States Constitutional 'law' that allows govt agents to
drive a tank thru a residence occupied by men, women and children, thus
causing some of the kids to die.
NS> If the tank drivers had died in the confrontation, who would
NS> you blame
The tank drivers for following orders they had no business following and
their commanders who gave them unconstitutional orders.
TL> Should the 'tank' drivers be exempted from manslaughter charges
TL> because they 'were just following orders?'
NS> Manslaughter implies conscious volition. How did the tank
NS> drivers know what was on the other side of the walls?
NS>
TL> Yeah, that's it. The tank drivers didn't know that anyone was IN the
TL> residence that was on TV for the 51 day siege. Hahahahhahahahah!!!!
NS>
NS> You missed the point. I'm absolutely positive that no tank
NS> driver said to himself, let's run this through the wall and
NS> kill people.
TL> I agree; then the charge would be murder instead of manslaughter.
NS> Good. At least we agree that they probably didn't intend
NS> to kill those people.
NS> I _am_ curious, though . . . why do you insist on going
NS> after the keepers of peace that operated within the law in
NS> a dangerous encounter who were clearly trying to save lives,
Driving tanks thru a residence occupied by men, women and children is neither
peaceful nor legal. Can you cite a Constitutional law that allows that?
NS> and yet ignore or exonerate those who caused all
NS> this: David Koresh, etc., of the Branch Davidians?
I havn't ignored him, I told you several times, he's dead. He can't do
anything to anyone anymore and we can't do anything to him anymore. GET
IT?
However, govt agents, our employees, who killed children during the tank
assault are STILL on the public payroll. THEY are our responsibility.
ENJOY,
Terry
--- timEd 1.00+
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx [512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
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PATH: 382/804 91 92 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Terry Liberty-Parker
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Waco Rememberance.2
|Date: 04 Mar 96 11:33:23
EID:497b 20645c20
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 13b0ab43
Norbert Sykes wrote in a message to Terry Liberty-Parker:
NS> \_|_|||||||||| __|_
NS> / |||| |||
NS> Terry Liberty-Parker > Norbert Sykes : Waco Rememberance.2
NS> You remind me of DiNiro in Apocalypse Now: "Ah, I love the
NS> smell of napalm in the morning . . . it smells like . . .
NS> victory . . ."
TL> uhhh..... Rong Robert. You're quoting Duval not DiNiro. Are you this
TL> accurate about the rest of your stuff?
NS> Well, I made a mistake. And I can admit it. I can also
NS> spell the word 'wrong'. So I missed a bit of trivia in
NS> Popular Culture;
along with an understanding of intentional humor.
NS> And idiots use all of the above to justify the
NS> bombing at Oklahoma City, etc.
NS>
TL> Hey, ANOTHER cool distraction! You can remain in denial about the
TL> part WE are responsible for; the govt agents that work for US.
NS>
NS> Denial of what?
The need to bring govt agents to justice for driving tanks thru a residence
occupied by men, women and children, thus causing some of the kids to die.
NS> BTW, I note that you ran away, screaming apparently, from
NS> the issue of people using Waco for their own selfish ends,
Oh heavens to murgatroid, people living their lives according to their own
agenda; and in the United States of America. What COULD they be thinking
of?
NS> such as blowing up children in Oklahoma City.
The Branch Davidians did that?!? Your evidence? Hell, I'll even listen
to a 'coherant' theory. Do you have even that; or is this just some prejudicial
hatemongering by you?
NS> You care about the children of Waco, or claim you do, yet you
NS> imply by your silence
Silence??!?!! Me!?! I'm the one that started this thread, remember?
NS> that its okay to kill those of Oklahoma City in protest for
NS> Waco. How do you justify this?
I didn't justify it. I said repeatedly that one cannot protest the taking
of innocent life at Waco by taking more innocent life. All the Waco protestors
I know agree with this.
Since this has been said often and recently, is there something wrong with
your feed; did you not read those posts?
Or are you just engaging in slanderous hatemongering?
TL> Your prejudices ought to be strong enough to spew forth a judgement
TL> about someone you don't know, right?
NS> Why do you assume that I'm prejudicial about you, when I
NS> may just be prejudicial against all extremists, elitists,
NS> etc.?
Gosh, and I thought it was just me you were prejudiced. Now you say you're
prejudiced against a whole bunch of people you don't know. Excuuuuse me.
NS> But, I should note: YOUR prejudices are strong
NS> enough for you to spew forth a judgment about someone you
NS> don't know.
Unlike you, I'm making judgements about the actual stuff you post. GET
IT?
NS> My information base is fine. I suppose you meant my narrow
NS> mind, or some such thing.
Express it anyway you like. I defend freedom of expression.
NS> Need I remind you that YOU equated Waco with WWII, not I.
You mistakenly thougt I made that equation when I refered to the failed
Nuremburg war crimes defence of 'I was just following orders.'
Do you always have this much trouble parsing sentences and processing concepts?
ENJOY,
Terry
--- timEd 1.00+
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx [512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
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PATH: 382/804 91 92 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Terry Liberty-Parker
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Waco Web Site
|Date: 04 Mar 96 12:01:27
EID:bae4 20646020
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 13b0ab44
Norbert Sykes wrote in a message to Terry Liberty-Parker:
NS> Terry Liberty-Parker > Fredric Rice : Waco Web Site
TL> Fredric Rice wrote in a message to Terry Liberty-Parker:
NS>
> For those of you who have access to the InterNet World Wide Web:
> http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~cwalker/waco/waco.html
> A Web site about the American tragedy of Waco.
NS>
FR> Neat! Does it also include your friends who blew up the
FR> federal building in Oklahoma?
TL> Hang on to your hatemongering prejudice, Fred. It's apparently the
TL> only thing your being comforted by these days.
NS> Why didn't you answer him? Why are you running away from
NS> the question? What are you afraid of?
I answered him several times. No Waco protestor I know believes that taking
more innocent life is a way to protest the taking of innocent life at Waco.
Bigots continue to slander with lies in the hopes that someone new to a
thread may be taking in by their prejudicial hatemongering.
ENJOY,
Terry
--- timEd 1.00+
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx [512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
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SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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PATH: 382/804 91 92 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Terry Liberty-Parker
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Waco rememberance
|Date: 04 Mar 96 12:06:50
EID:9175 206460c0
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 13b0ab45
Norbert Sykes wrote in a message to Terry Liberty-Parker:
NS> \_|_|||||||||| __|_
NS> / |||| |||
NS> Terry Liberty-Parker > J.J. Hitt : Waco rememberance
TL> J.J. Hitt wrote in a message to Terry Liberty-Parker:
NS>
TL>> Waco Rememberance will start 1pm Saturday March 2, 1996 in
TL>> Austin, the Texas on south side of the Texas State Capital at
TL>> 11th and the Congress. Survivors of U.S. Govt assault of the
TL>> Branch Davidians near Waco will be joined by sympathizers and
TL>> protestors. At 3pm participants and sympathizers will gather
TL>> at Hickory St Grill at 8th and Congress. Contact Jeff Davis
TL>> for info at (512)331-9212.
NS>
JJH> Looks like yer going to have shit for weather (cold with
JJH> rain and a chance of sleet).
TL> Look again. Hi 60s and sunny. Texas, you know.
NS> JJ posts from Houston, according the to origin line I see
NS> on his posts. You post from Austin. Is there that much a
NS> difference in weather between the two of you?
Yes, quit a bit. Texas is a big state with a lot of diversity.
ENJOY,
Terry
--- timEd 1.00+
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx [512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 382/804 91 92 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Terry Liberty-Parker
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Waco Rememberance
|Date: 04 Mar 96 12:08:56
EID:9175 20646100
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 13b0ab46
Norbert Sykes wrote in a message to Terry Liberty-Parker:
NS> Terry Liberty-Parker > Dan Ceppa : Waco Rememberance
> Dan Ceppa wrote in a message to Terry Liberty-parker:
> On 02-28-96 13:26, Terry Liberty-parker got back to David Worrell
NS>
DW> Not this shit *again*. Here I was thinking you might have
DW> actually approached human status.
TL> Gee, if your prejudice makes you this uncomfortable, GET OVER IT.
DW> I guess we all make mistakes.
NS>
TL> Only when being sub-human.
NS>
DC> You haven't risen to even that level.
TL> Ah, the prejudiced sphincter arises again.
NS> Firstly, this clearly marks you as prejudicial.
If you want RATIONAL people to agree with you, you actually have to PRESENT
the rationale for your otherwise UNFOUNDED assertion. GET IT?
NS> Secondly, if you wee referring to the anal sphincter, it is
NS> physically incapable of 'arising'.
You are clearly unaware of the head in the sand posture assumed by the poster.
ENJOY,
Terry
--- timEd 1.00+
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx [512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
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SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 382/804 91 92 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Terry Liberty-Parker
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Waco Rememberance.1
|Date: 04 Mar 96 12:21:29
EID:ae57 206462a0
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 13b0ab49
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 632e00db
J.J. Hitt wrote in a message to Terry Liberty-Parker:
TL> ROTFLMAO!!!!!! Well, I asked you to show us how much you
TL> know and you obliged. Wahahahahaahah!!!!!!!!!!!
JJH> There is something about this whole matter that puzzles
JJH> me...
JJH> What do YOU think of David Koresh?
Never knew him, he was not our employee. He is dead and therefore beyond
our justice system.
JJH> Not tank drivers.
JJH> Not BATF.
JJH> Not Janet Reno.
JJH> Not the First or Second Amendment.
The only item on that list that I have addressed is the tank drivers. Any
citizen of the United States bears some responsibiliy for the actions of
public employees. These public employees killed children in their own home
by running tanks thru that home.
Govt agents testified at the trial of surviving Branch Davidians that the
tanks were supposed to systematicly demolish the residence, dispite it's
occupancy by men, women and children.
These tank drivers must be indicted for manslaughter. That's the process.
JJH> But what is your opinion of David Koresh, his religious
JJH> community and their beliefs?
I have none and don't need one to perform my duty as a citizen. Nothing
in their beliefs or behavior could conceivable justify govt agents driving
tanks thru a residence occupied by men, women and children.
JJH> I realize you probably see this as a civil rights issue, but
JJH> I can't believe that you can spend this much time on this
JJH> subject without forming an opinion about the man and his
JJH> claims.
Why should I care about that. He is dead and the relavent Davidian members
have been investigated and tried and the public process in proceding with
them. Whatever culpablity they have is being adjudicated.
Focusing on them rather than on our employess is a denial tactic to avoid
the frightening implications of govt culpability for excessive use of force
at Waco.
Koresh & Co didn't, and don't, work for me or you; the govt tank drivers
do.
ENJOY,
Terry
--- timEd 1.00+
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx [512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
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SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
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PATH: 382/804 91 92 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Terry Liberty-Parker
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: Waco Rememberance
|Date: 04 Mar 96 14:36:36
EID:e756 20647480
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 13b0ab4c
REPLY: 1:2424/1004 1e84011a
Jim Germiquet wrote in a message to Norbert Sykes:
JG>
TL> Many have distracted themselves from the need for justice by obsessing
TL> on child abuse allegations aimed at Branch Davidian leader, David
TL> Koresh. He is dead, and can no longer harm anyone. But, govt agents
TL> who followed orders to drive tanks thru a residence occupied with men,
TL> women and children, are still at large.
NS> The idea still hasn't crawled into your skull and died yet that
NS> perhaps Koresh was the one responsible for these deaths?
Still obsessing on the dead white guy?
NS> And idiots use all of the above to justify the bombing at
NS> Oklahoma City, etc.
Since this poster has already been informed that none of the Waco protestors
he is addressing believe that the taking of innocent life can be protested
by taking more innocent life, he is spewing prejudicial hatemongering.
JG> I agree, if the officials went to the farm with a warrant
JG> and the occupants denied entry or resisted arrest, THEY are
JG> responsible for the outcome.
Since there is nothing that Branch Davidians did that could justify running
tanks thru their residence occupied by men, women and children, and they
didn't drive the tanks thru their own home, it appears that our employees
are responsible for that part.
You say otherwise? Please explain Germiquet logic to us.
ENJOY,
Terry
--- timEd 1.00+
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx [512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103
SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2605/606 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3412/1114 3550/500
SEEN-BY: 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 382/804 91 92 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Terry Liberty-Parker
|To: Norbert Sykes
|Sub: Waco Rememberance
|Date: 04 Mar 96 14:47:25
EID:9175 206475e0
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 13b0ab4d
Norbert Sykes wrote in a message to Jim Germiquet:
NS> Jim Germiquet > Norbert Sykes : Waco Rememberance
TL> Many have distracted themselves from the need for justice by obsessing
TL> on child abuse allegations aimed at Branch Davidian leader, David
TL> Koresh. He is dead, and can no longer harm anyone. But, govt agents
TL> who followed orders to drive tanks thru a residence occupied with men,
TL> women and children, are still at large.
NS> The idea still hasn't crawled into your skull and died yet that
NS> perhaps Koresh was the one responsible for these deaths?
JG> I agree, if the officials went to the farm with a warrant and the
JG> occupants denied entry or resisted arrest, THEY are responsible
JG> for the outcome.
THEY drove the tanks thru their own residence?
NS> Especially if the people were there at the whim of a madman
NS> who raped them, abused them, and held them hostage.
And this, to you, makes it ok to drive tanks thru their residence while
occupied by men, women and children. Hahahahahahahahahahhaah!!!!
Please explain Norbert/logic to us!
NS> It's unfortunate that innocents died, but the US Government was
NS> not the one that put those people at risk.
Let's see, driving tanks thru a residence occupied by men, women and children
does NOT put the residents 'at risk.' Hahahahhaahhahahaha!!!!
Please explain Norbert/logic to us!
ENJOY,
Terry
--- timEd 1.00+
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: One God not three
|Date: 04 Mar 96 21:56:00
EID:6df5 2064af00
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89364393
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Karl Schneider to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> KS> Or do you think the "original" bible just appeared out of nowhere
MH> KS> all intact and complete at some point in the early CE?
MH> No. And nothing I've said should imply that I do.
KS> What you have said is that it has been 'added to'. So far the
KS> end of Mark is the only one you have a problem with.
The end of Mark and one verse in the first letter of John are the only
passages that are not found in the best and oldest manuscripts we know
of. The ending of Mark that we now have seems to be roughly 1,000 years
older than the rest of the book. Of course, if an older and better
manuscript of, say, Matthew was found that did not include some
passage, that would be evidence that the passage might not have been
part of Matthew. Until and unless that happens, though, Matthew as we
now have it is attested to by the oldest manuscripts we have.
MH> KS> It is obvious to anyone with an IQ over 7 that the thing has had
MH> KS> additions and deletions with EVERY translation and EVERY 'bugfix'.
MH> Someone who knows nothing about Bible translations perhaps. What's
MH> happened, Karl, is that as time goes on, older manuscripts have been
MH> found, copies closer in time to the original documents than what
MH> earlier translators had available. At the same time, scholars'
MH> understanding of the ancient languages has increased, leading to more
MH> accurate translations of the languages.
KS> Resulting in changes. So much for the 'unchanging word'.
Resulting in NO changes to the Bible as its authors wrote it. The
changes are only to our knowledge and understanding of the Bible. (And
none of them, BTW, are very important.)
First you criticize theists for being too rigid. Then when we
demonstrate that the do change theories as new information comes to
light, you criticize us for not being rigid enough. Are you taking any
medication to control your schizophrenia? :)
... We have our standards here on Holy Smoke ... at least two.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: fax
|Date: 04 Mar 96 07:51:00
EID:231e 20643e60
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89364394
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Karl Schneider to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> There is. There is also an English word for "sparrow," but that doesn't
MH> mean sparrows aren't also birds.
MH> Do you understand language, Karl? "Bird" is a collective noun -- it
MH> covers a large number of animals that are bound together by certain
MH> similarities, but are also different in some ways. Collective nouns
MH> can be more or less specific.
KS> Fine. But bats are not birds. OK, have it your way, Mikey. Bats
KS> are birds.
Bats are NOT birds, Karl, and the Bible DOES NOT SAY THEY ARE. Are you
really too stupid to grasp this simple point? The Hebrew word does NOT
mean "bird," even though it is translated that way in English. It means
creatures larger than insects that fly. Bats and birds both fit that
description.
This is not my opinion -- it comes directly from Strong's Hebrew
Concordance and other linguistic referenes.
KS> I guess what we need is a NHV (New Hardy Version)
What we need is an atheist with the ability to understand simple ideas.
... You're like an idiot savant, only without the savant part.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Kenneth Cavness
|Sub: stereotype (Sony)
|Date: 04 Mar 96 07:56:00
EID:02a5 20643f00
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89364395
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Kenneth Cavness to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> I was talking about the five on this echo who have admitted it.
KC> Ignoring the fact that you're lying for a moment, you took five
KC> people's dubious admission that they have no standards as a valid
KC> statistical proof of your own belief that atheists have no standards?
No Ken, I did NOT say that "atheists" as a group have no standards. I
was talking ONLY about the five specific people who had weighed in with
opinions to that effect.
Note what John Prewett said:
JP> [and it's fun watching them adamantly declare
JP> that atheist/heathens have no standards]
And then I replied:
MH> And lately, deny that they admitted it. :D
John may or may not have been generalizing. It's hard to tell from his
statement. I was not. I was speaking specifically of certain people.
KC> I wasn't aware that I had no standards. Thanks for letting me know.
MH> I wasn't talking about you.
KC> I'm an atheist. You were pidgeonholing atheists. You were talking
KC> about me.
No, I was not.
MH> (And this is, in fact, an intentional exaggeration on my part --
MH> what they have admitted is that atheists claim no common
MH> standard, that morality is largely a matter of personal choice.
KC> I see. So, while you are actually able to comprehend the nuance of
KC> their response, you willfully "exaggerate" to prove your point.
KC> It's called a straw man.
KC> It's also called lying.
No, it's called "baiting" or "trolling." It's intended to provoke a
response.
However:
MH> They then ignore the logical consequences of taking such a view
MH> -- that under such an assumption, nothing can be called
MH> "wrong.")
This does come close to claiming that atheists have no morals, but not
quite. The logical outcome of the argument "Morality should be whatever
the individual chooses" *is* that there is no *objective* moral
standard, and therefore no atheist has the right to call anyone else
"wrong." All morality is solely a matter of personal opionion. Some
atheists may choose to be very moral and good people -- but they have
no ground to call anyone else wrong.
This is the heart of my thesis regarding atheistic morality -- not that
atheists have no morals, but that atheists have no reason to have
morals if they choose not to. That point I'm willing to defend and
debate.
KC> I really don't see how I can discuss things like this with you unless
KC> you actually know my side of the debate without assuming things from
KC> me or others that agree with me.
As I've said, I was assuming nothing. And I wasn't including anyone in
my statements save those five particular people.
KC> Since you will obviously not believe
KC> anything that we say
Gee Ken, you haven't even tried talking to me about it much yet. Isn't
this kind of a stereotype? :)
... SEX education? I thought this was SECTS education!
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Kenneth Cavness
|Sub: Re: face value
|Date: 04 Mar 96 08:04:00
EID:5b3c 20644080
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89364396
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Kenneth Cavness to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> I don't think Christians suggest taking anything at face value.
MH> Examples?
KC> The concept of God(tm), for one.
KC> Christ's divinity, for another.
The latter is abundantly evidenced by the resurrection. The
resurrection is itself well-evidenced by the historical situation. The
resurrection serves as evidence for the existence of God, along with
other evidences.
While these things may be taken at face value, nothing says they have
to be.
... A thousand compromises do not equal a victory.
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|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: you bore me
|Date: 04 Mar 96 20:59:00
EID:6f65 2064a760
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 89364397
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to Michael Hardy <=-
GR>> Be conservative. Believe Mark 16:15-18. Or do you get
GR>> liberal when it is your ass on the line?
MH> By now you have received my response to this. You bore me. If
MH> you can't come up with an