God Damned Fundies!
|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: God's Word
|Date: 05 Mar 96 21:06:55
EID:222b 2065a8c0
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 13cf2762
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 892F439F
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Michael Hardy spewed forth the following Ryan Shaw:
MH> Come on, Ryan. If you have some evidence, trot it out.
RS> That's a very humorous statement coming from a fundy.
The reason it is rather humorous is because you choose to believe in many
things without evidence. We've asked your for evidence to back up those
said beliefs again and again, yet you have failed to do so thus far.
In the words of a now infamous HolySmoke infidel: `Do I sense a double
standard here?'
MH> And you still present no evidence for your claim -- your ignorant,
MH> incorrect claim -- that the KJV includes intentional errors.
As I have stated on many occasions, it is something I recall reading rather
vividly. At the moment, due to more important things, I have no time to
spend a couple of hours hunting down my Western Civ. text from high school
in the university's library. Spring break will soon be here however. Depending
on how much time I end up spending in the woods enjoying myself I may get
to that during the break.
rshaw@gladstone.uoregon.edu
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: U2
|Date: 05 Mar 96 21:13:14
EID:3c82 2065a9a0
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 13cf2763
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 892F43A0
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Michael Hardy spewed forth the following Ryan Shaw:
RS> Personally, I interpret the song [as well as almost all of their work
RS> after Joshua Tree/Rattle and Hum] as questioning their religious views
RS> and taking a step back from them.
MH> However, the point was the the last verse of "The First Time"
MH> illustrates free will as regards heaven. Bono chooses to leave by
MH> the back door and throw away the key (in the song.) Yet the choice
MH> is his.
Yet Bono is not the word of God. I thought the only true Christian doctrine
was in the Bible?
MH> Bono's an insightful man. Why shouldn't I quote him if he makes a
MH> valid point in an eloquent way?
You've got a point. He's got long hair and he's a drunkard, not unlike
those that wrote your holy book.
rshaw@gladstone.uoregon.edu
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Question
|Date: 05 Mar 96 21:14:57
EID:69a6 2065a9c0
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 13cf2764
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 892F43A1
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Michael Hardy spewed forth the following George Rudzinski:
MH> Is there? Unless someone is preventing black people from posting
MH> here, it seems it's purely a matter of whether any choose to. No
MH> one is keeping them out, nor is anyone forcing them in. That is
MH> true of all of us.
Except for Staal of course. In his case, there seems to be some type of
supernatural alien powere keeping him here against his will.
rshaw@gladstone.uoregon.edu
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: One God not three
|Date: 05 Mar 96 21:15:57
EID:895e 2065a9e0
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 13cf2765
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012 132eb417
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
John Prewett spewed forth the following Ryan Shaw:
RS> That's an easy excuse. Tell me then, do you believe god
RS> created the heavens and earth?
RS> Or do you KNOW this?
JP> I believe I know it. I know I believe it.
One doesn't need to believe in facts.
rshaw@gladstone.uoregon.edu
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: One Staal (Under his god)
|Date: 05 Mar 96 21:16:26
EID:ea33 2065aa00
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 13cf2766
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012 132eb41e
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
John Prewett spewed forth the following George Rudzinski:
GR> george ... 1-800-Go-Pat-Go. Contribute to the working man's hero!
JP> Are you a Pat Buchanan supporter ?
I doubt he is. People from the other side of the fence would love to see
Buchanan go up against Clinton though, and that's why there are a lot of
`liberals' making donations.
rshaw@gladstone.uoregon.edu
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: All
|Sub: the true nature of christians
|Date: 05 Mar 96 21:17:41
EID:7d44 2065aa20
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 13cf2767
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
After much pondering I have come to the conclusion that most if not all
Christians are self-centered son of a bitches. It would seem to me that
they do not worship their god for the sake and `glory' of the action, but
rather they're attempting to save their own asses from eternal hellfire
and such.
It's a pity that I have had to expose them like this. The truth always
hurts.
rshaw@gladstone.uoregon.edu
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: demons...DEMONS
|Date: 05 Mar 96 21:31:11
EID:f42b 2065abe0
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 13cf2768
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Judith Bandsma spewed forth the following All:
JB> thing runs on my old 286 with *1* meg of RAM. DOS only, of course.
JB> Last night I tried launching it on the new system just to see how
JB> it would look. (Yes, I did drop to DOS mode first...I ain't *that*
JB> dumb) And I get...are you ready for this one?..."Yserbius needs
JB> 512K to run. Insufficient memory". Uh, guys...I've got 16mb, so
JB> what gives? I guess a few demons have escaped from the dungeon and
JB> infested the system.
There are lots of problems with older games running under Win95 and/or OS/2.
Did you just drop to DOS or did you boot straight to DOS? Win95 is loaded
on top of DOS, although Billy wouldn't like you to think so. I believe
you can edit your WIN.INI file so that it just loads up the new version
of DOS that came with Win95. You could even keep two copies and create
a boot disk with the one with the non-Win95 boot setup on it in order to
play that game.
On another note, by choosing Win95 you have sold your soul to Satan.
}:->
rshaw@gladstone.uoregon.edu
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: George Rudzinski
|Sub: Question
|Date: 05 Mar 96 21:34:05
EID:cdb5 2065ac40
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 13cf2769
REPLY: 1:228/500.0 313302c4
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
George Rudzinski spewed forth the following Styx Allum:
GR> Not positively but I'm pretty sure. There would be no reason for a
GR> black person not to answer my question.
I respect most of the things you say, but I haven't the faintest idea why
you keep pressing on with this. What difference does it really make what
color someone is? That is indeed the beauty of the online world. In everyday
life we sometimes make subconscious judgements just by looking at someone.
These judgements sometimes cloud what that person really has to say. In
cyberspace that will never happen and that's why it's such a good thing.
It is nearly the only place where ideas and information can be exchanged
_without_ human nature getting in the way of things.
rshaw@gladstone.uoregon.edu
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Styx Allum
|Sub: Jim Staal
|Date: 05 Mar 96 21:38:31
EID:45c6 2065acc0
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 13cf276a
REPLY: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 1e94b74b
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Styx Allum spewed forth the following Jim Staal:
> Only once, sir...ok...this twice.
SA> Divine prophecy? Hardly. You sent me netmail regarding the goings
SA> on in HolySmoke. That illustrated quite clearly that you were
SA> still reading the echo (i.e. NEVER LEFT).
He has sent me netmail as well. Oddly, it was crashed here. I wonder why
his `sysop' gives him such freedoms?
rshaw@gladstone.uoregon.edu
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Mark Staal
|Sub: Jim Staal
|Date: 05 Mar 96 21:39:35
EID:e964 2065ace0
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 13cf276b
REPLY: 1:228/45.0 31345d34
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Mark Staal spewed forth the following Styx Allum:
SA> We've heard this story before. We know how it (never) ends.
SA> Jimbo has already slipped up a couple of times.
MS> ....That may be, but, when I last spoke to him he was quite
MS> serious about this and said he wasn't coming back because of the
MS> abuse his wife was taking from CERTIAN people on this
MS> echo.....So, I wouldn't bet the farm that he'll be back real soon
MS> if ever.
Are you talking to yourself again, Jimbo? Or are those just voices in your
head?
rshaw@gladstone.uoregon.edu
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Dont have the time.
|Date: 05 Mar 96 21:43:55
EID:b55b 2065ad60
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 13cf276d
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 63125ea7
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Martin Goldberg spewed forth the following Ryan Shaw:
MG> I think that his mojo, like his slaussen, has been cut off.
Slauáen? If my hunch is correct, this is a Yiddish term for penis. Yiddish
seems to be full of such words.
rshaw@gladstone.uoregon.edu
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: Taking a break
|Date: 05 Mar 96 21:44:22
EID:0aa9 2065ad80
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 13cf276e
REPLY: 1:355/2.1012 1371f9f0
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
John Prewett spewed forth the following ALL:
JP> Taking a break
JP> To- Whoever may have recently sent me a post-
JP> I'll routinely pick up my mail, and will save it, however,
JP> I don't expect to be responding for at least a couple of months.
Awwww, just when it was getting good. Are you off to kill more bears in
the Alaskan wilds?
JP> Lord help us all. WBW, John
Indeed. }:->
rshaw@gladstone.uoregon.edu
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: OF "BATS" AND "BIRDS"
|Date: 05 Mar 96 21:46:41
EID:5c61 2065adc0
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 13cf276f
REPLY: 1:116/19 035AAF3E
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Al Schroeder spewed forth the following Judith Bandsma:
AS> *Sigh* I love this state in many ways, but our
AS> politicians...either we have really good ones, like Lamaar
AS> Alexander or Al Gore (both sr. or jr.) or our last governor---or
I had the pleasure of seeing Al Gore Sr. speak at the university here a
couple of weeks ago. It was a conference held in honor of one of our great
politicians: Wayne Morse.
rshaw@gladstone.uoregon.edu
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: Brad Jackson
|Sub: Bible
|Date: 05 Mar 96 21:48:55
EID:6f62 2065ae00
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 13cf2771
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
Brad Jackson spewed forth the following All:
BJ> The bible is inspired by God!
How do you KNOW?
rshaw@gladstone.uoregon.edu
---
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|From: Ryan Shaw
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: HolySmoke Pick Yer Poison List
|Date: 05 Mar 96 21:49:28
EID:30b3 2065ae20
MSGID: 1:152/67.0 13cf2772
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 633980bd
CHRS: ibmpc 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8548
J.J. Hitt spewed forth the following Christopher Baker:
CB> Christopher Baker atheist Coca Cola Classic
CB> w/lime
JJH> With LIME ?
That sounds like it's up there with yogurt and steak sauce. ;)
rshaw@gladstone.uoregon.edu
---
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Steve Rose
|Sub: Hardy pretends there's nothing
|Date: 03 Mar 96 15:27:13
EID:8356 20637b60
\_|_|||||||||| __|_
/ |||| |||
Steve Rose > Norbert Sykes : Hardy pretends there's nothing
SR> Norbert Sykes wrote in a message to Steve Rose:
SR> "Ooooohhhhhh... I don't want him - you can have him
SR> "His name is Har-deeeeee
SR> "A big dis-grace to the hu-man race...
SR> "He's too dumb for meeeeeeeeeeeeee!"
NS> I had no clue you were a polka fan. I bet a lot of people don't
NS> even connect the tune with this . . . (It's the Too-Fat Polka,
NS> folks, unless I'm wwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyy off . . . )
SR> Watch out...or next we'll hear the yearly Holysmoke rendition of:
SR> "My Gawd's Biiiiiiger than Yoooooouuur Gawd!" :)
. "My God's bigger than yours!
. "My God's bigger 'cause he eats Kennel Ration,
. "My God's bigger than yours . . . "
This'll make perfect sense to all the dyslexic worshippers out there
. . . };) Gee, maybe I spent too much time as a kid watching
television . . .
... By thought, I embrace the universal. -- Blaise Pascal
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Masochistic Maiden
|Sub: Big bird
|Date: 03 Mar 96 15:40:52
EID:ba73 20637d00
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/ |||| |||
Masochistic Maiden > Norbert Sykes : Big bird
NS> confusing discrimination with discernment. A child needs to know
NS> how to tell and apple from an orange, especially if he's allergic.
NS> This is discernment. It is not the exact same as discrimination.
MM> Actually, this was precisely the response I was hoping for. So many
MM> groups, and viewpoints do NOT differentiate between these. I think it
MM> is to our advantage to teach discernment without discrimination.
This is probably not a bad idea . . . }:)
MM> Therefore... expose people to everything that can be explored, then
MM> help them develop discernment along lines of their own personal
MM> choices.
Rather, allow them the option to expose themselves to many varied
things, etc. Otherwise, there's an element of control there.
Don't make the kids go to Chinatown with you, but allow them that
option. Don't make them eat strange things, but have different
foods there for them to eat if they feel inclined to try them. My
youngest loves brussel sprouts because of this (heh heh heh), but
then, so do I.
MM> Rather, we tend to try to "Yell" discrimination whenever our
MM> choice isn't the most popular. A difficult line to walk at times.
I think we over react. A friend and I walked over and picked up my
five year old from kindergarden. On the way home, he was talking
about a black boy in his class. My friend took the opportunity to
give forth a homily on race and the imperative to not discriminate
(i.e., the color shouldn't matter, etc.) which had my son totally
confused, as he'd been talking about a black BALL, not another
child but a plaything on the playground. Heh.
But, on the obverse, and to keep this sort of thing in perspective
and within the boundries of the topic here, the most I've ever been
pissed off was a few years ago when we had a visit from Child
Protective Services because they heard we were perhaps kinda
cultish and wanted to make sure that we weren't going to sacrifice
our offspring to Satan or something. Fucking idiots. During the
interview we let them know that we've pagan, yes, but that they
were also pretty stupid for ever assuming such a thing. They
backpedaled a bit, but then hit us with the statement that made me
so mad: "Well, I hope you're taking your children to other
religious services so that they can make an informed choice about
their faith."
Not only am I convinced that they'd never do that to a Xtian set of
parents ("Hey, why don't you guys take your kids down to the Church
of Satan so they can get some perspective and make a fair
choice?"), but I saw it as unnecessary. I didn't adhear to any
religion for most of my adutl life and they're welcome to follow
that path and chose what they want when they're adults.
My point is that we shouldn't foster beliefs on them until such a
time as they can think for themselves and be able to accept or
reject them for themselves.
MM> Thanks for jumping on this one. So.... how do we teach discernment
MM> without censorship? Exposure to negatives as well as positives is
MM> valuable don't you think?
Answer to first question: I don't know . . . just keep things
available.
Answer to second question: Not sure I agree on this one. I see no
reason to encourage a negative just so the kids can get an
education. I tend to think the Native American way of education
children in the wiles of life was the best: let them do as they
wish (unless its life threatening) . . . when they burn themselves,
they'll learn not to pick up hot things.
... Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jets!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Cult Christianity
|Date: 03 Mar 96 15:41:47
EID:e5ad 20637d20
\_|_|||||||||| __|_
/ |||| |||
J.J. Hitt > Norbert Sykes : Cult Christianity
NS> Next week he'll suggest we all go out and adopt Serbs or
NS> something.
JH> Thank you.... that just gave me a wicked idea.
Oh, no! You're not going to blame this one on me . . . };) You're
welcome, I hope . . .
... 24 hours in a day/24 beers in a case: Coincidence???
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Comminuion
|Date: 03 Mar 96 15:46:03
EID:ba9e 20637dc0
\_|_|||||||||| __|_
/ |||| |||
J.J. Hitt > Norbert Sykes : Comminuion
JH>> Of course, it gave them a rather grotesque facination with
JH>> death. An obsession that persists in the contemporary
JH>> popular culture of Mexico. Mexicans are the most morbid
JH>> people on earth.
NS> My personal favorite is Dia De La Muerta. Someday, I want
NS> to be down in Mexico for some of the celebration. And they
NS> have a good grotesque folklore that I'm surprized that
NS> filmmakers haven't exploited up to now. Scary stuff.
JH> It's not just the November 1st celebration, it permiates all
JH> aspects of daily life. Take a look at a mexican tabloid
JH> newspaper some time. It's not enough for them to report that
JH> so-and-so hung themselves, THEY SHOW YOU in full color.
I love the Mexican Vampire Movies. Those things out-rock the
Hammer Vampire films as far as gore, etc. I know exactly what you
mean.
JH> Crime scenes, autopsies, accidents and disasters are all
JH> reported in gory, explicit, full color.
Kind of like the old horror mags you used to buy here (many of
which were published by Willim Gaines, I believe) that were
outlawed and restricted years ago . . . and now seem to be coming
back to life in the form of Tales From the Crypt, etc.
JH> And yet... with all these dead (and often mutilated) bodies
JH> being so graphically displayed, they will still black out the
JH> nipples on a woman's breasts or airbrush a pair of panties on her.
I guess if there was a roving band of giant nipple-headed
bloodsuckers (welllllll, what an idea!) they'd have a quandry on
their hands, eh?
JH> The level of weirdness never ceases to amaze me.
Well, they're still under the thrall of the Church down there.
Blood and gore is okay, just not sex. But it DOES strike me as
odd, too . . .
... 1st great joke on society by the Scots: They call bagpipes music...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Angels...
|Date: 03 Mar 96 15:47:01
EID:96cb 20637de0
\_|_|||||||||| __|_
/ |||| |||
J.J. Hitt > Norbert Sykes : Angels...
JH> On Mar 01 12:52 96, Norbert Sykes of 1:203/289 wrote:
JH>> Relax... we're overdue for the next Mormon to pass
JH>> through. Should be here any day now.
JH>> They're always a lot of fun.
JH>> Some of them have even lasted for two or three weeks.
NS> << street>>> Ayup, the Tuesday Mormon is running a bit late I see .
JH> Probably took a wrong turn at Planet Kolob.
JH> They tend to do that a lot.
Maybe they're getting their shoes resoled after walking around on
the Sun for a while. I could understand THAT . . .
... 2nd great joke on society by the Scots: They call golf a game...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: >> Ubik: Another goddamn BBS << (1:203/289.0)
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Pantheacon Stuff 1/4
|Date: 03 Mar 96 15:51:10
EID:2e45 20637e60
\_|_|||||||||| __|_
/ |||| |||
J.J. Hitt > Norbert Sykes : Pantheacon Stuff 1/4
NS> My pleasure. I'm those people too, at times, especially
NS> the Monster Truck Pagans, I suppose. At least, the MTP's
NS> seem the most appealing . . .
JH> What I want to know is where do they think they are they going to
JH> get the fuel for those trucks after The Big Fuck Up happens?
They won't hear you . . . they're too busy making sure they have
enough gas to run the generator so they can watch Mad Max.
JH> The Survivalist mentality has always amused me (it's an offshoot
JH> of Mormon theology, so it's gauranteed to be weird in all it's
JH> varients).
I can understand the first half of it . . . many are the times I'd
just wished that everyone went away. But I'm as perplexed as you
on the rest of it.
JH> The folks who look forward to the colapse of society as some sort
JH> of blessing need to take their rose colored glasses off and take a
JH> good look at how life used to be in the days they are so fond of
JH> romanticising about. Down here on the Gulf Coast, Yellow Fever used
JH> to kill quite a few people. Remove the existing modern
JH> infrastructure and it will return. And Cholera is always good for a
JH> laugh or two. Typhus, anyone?
Influenza, polio, hoof and mouth, etc. Not to mention all the
birds that are estimated to die if most of the population goes. A
lot of them are now dependent on man. And a lot of different plant
species as well. Where does one get seeds for seedless cucumbers?
Yeah, it'll be a lot more than civilization just falling.
... 3rd great joke on society by the Scots: They eat haggis & call it food
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: >> Ubik: Another goddamn BBS << (1:203/289.0)
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Flood
|Date: 03 Mar 96 16:15:57
EID:bf59 206381e0
\_|_|||||||||| __|_
/ |||| |||
Michael Hardy > Norbert Sykes : Flood
-=> Quoting Norbert Sykes to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> SA> The people at Jonestown and Waco also suffered and died for what
MH> SA> they believed in, and they were contemporary to the leaders of
MH> SA> their groups. Just because someone lived at the same time,
MH> SA> Michael, does not mean that they are knowledgeable about what
MH> SA> has gone on in that time from someone else's perspective.
MH> The resurrection of Jesus was an EVENT!! It was not a claim, such as
MH> the claims made by Koresh or Jim Jones.
NS>
KDM> It is a *claim* of an event, Mike.
MH> And well-attested to by what evidence we have available -- mainly the
MH> fact that people who lived very close in time and space to the event
MH> believed it. That is, those most in a position to know it wasn't true
MH> believed it was true.
MH> The claims of Jones and Koresh, in contrast, are not even *claims* of
MH> events. They are claims, period.
NS> Are you saying that Jonestown and Waco didn't happen?
MH> Here's your free clue for the day: What happened at Jonestown and
MH> Waco doesn't require Jones and Koresh's claims to be true. Jesus's
MH> return from the dead *does* depend on his claims being true.
MH> Now don't waste any more of my time if you can't come up with
MH> something better than what you had this time.
Point of order, dippy, but I did ask for a reason. Both Jonestown
and Waco were events, contrary to your claim. We even have
photographs to back them up. I'm not getting into your pissing
contest to see who has the most real savior, or if he's less
filling or tastes great. I wanted to know how you could imply that
they (Waco and Jonestown) never happened?
You see, it all comes down to this: if you claim that things that
we have proof of happening didn't, yet claim that something we have
no proof of happening did, you're shooting yourself in your logical
foot. And, incidently, risking a nasty head wound.
So, I just wanted to find out how you managed to totally ignore the
standard definition of words we in the English Speaking World use
everyday, just to rationalize your claims.
claim (klAYm) --verb
1. To demand as one's due.
2. To state to be true.
3. To call for; require.
--noun
1. A demand for something as one's due.
2. Title or right.
3. Something claimed.
4. A statement of something as a fact.
--Idioms:
lay claim to
To assert one's right to or ownership of.
[< Lat. clamare, to call]
--claim'able adjective
event (i-vent') --noun
1. An occurrence or incident, esp. one of significance.
2. One of the items in a sports program.
[Lat. eventus]
So unless you want to totally redefine the wordage of the English
Language to conform to what you want it to believe (Has an Alice in
Wonderland quality to it, doesn't it dippy?) and thereby ruining
your credability, I was giving you a chance to state clearly what
you actually meant, rather than ranting any more. Bravo, you
performed admirably.
Oh, and by the way, if I'd known that a question this simple would
so tax your mental gears and get your panties in this much of a
bunch, I'd've done it long ago.
... 9 out of 10 men who try camels prefer women.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: demons...DEMONS
|Date: 03 Mar 96 16:34:47
EID:2b02 20638440
\_|_|||||||||| __|_
/ |||| |||
Karl Schneider > Judith Bandsma : demons...DEMONS
JB>Except for the music, this thing runs on my old 286 with *1* meg of RAM.
JB>DOS only, of course. Last night I tried launching it on the new system
just
JB>to see how it would look. (Yes, I did drop to DOS mode first...I ain't
*that*
JB>dumb) And I get...are you ready for this one?..."Yserbius needs 512K
to run.
JB>Insufficient memory". Uh, guys...I've got 16mb, so what gives? I guess
a
JB>few demons have escaped from the dungeon and infested the system.
KS> You need to have a memory manager to work with DOS. Try this in
KS> your config.sys file: device=\himem.sys
is where the file is, probably in c:\windows
JB>Somebody pray for it.
KS> Naw, we want it to work
Why don't we get Assmotrin to curse it then? He'll curse ANYTHING
. . . };)
... A stiff apology is a second insult. -- G. K. Chesterton
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: >> Ubik: Another goddamn BBS << (1:203/289.0)
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Missing Child Alert - Satan
|Date: 03 Mar 96 16:48:36
EID:b7ab 20638600
\_|_|||||||||| __|_
/ |||| |||
J.J. Hitt > All : Missing Child Alert - Satan
JH> MISSING CHILD ALERT
JH> )\ _.___._ /(
JH> /:|'##666##'|:\ Name: Satan
JH> / __ __ \ Date of Birth: October 23, 4004 BC
JH> : __~\ /~__ : Race: Mytholical
JH> ( ( .\ \|/ /. ) ) Hair: none
JH> | \_~_) . (_~_/ | Eyes: red, glowing
JH> (._ ~ /_\ ~ _.)
JH> \\_._._._._// Last seen in the company of Jesus
JH> \\V V V V// Christ, a convicted felon from
JH> \\.^.^.// the middle east. Satan was wearing
JH> (_____) red leotards with a matching cape.
JH> "Have you seen me?
JH> Mr. Christ is reported to have been wearing a white bathrobe.
JH> If you have any information regarding this missing demon or
JH> of any missing sprite, imp, devil, demigod, seraphim or
JH> magical being please call:
JH>
JH> National Lost Cause Recovery Service at 1-800-GET-LOST.
This is classic. It'll make George very happy. BTW, where did you
get the picture of Assmotrin?
... Always remember to pillage BEFORE you burn.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: >> Ubik: Another goddamn BBS << (1:203/289.0)
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Our Daily Alien
|Date: 03 Mar 96 16:51:03
EID:16b9 20638660
\_|_|||||||||| __|_
/ |||| |||
J.J. Hitt > George Mooth : Our Daily Alien
JH> CETIANS - (or Tau Cetians). A human race of 'Mediterranean' or
JH> 'South American' appearing, tan-skinned humans. Very similar
JH> to caucasian humans on Terra except for SLIGHT differences
JH> (slightly pointed ears, higher physical 'density' for their
JH> size, slightly broader nose, 5' 5" tall on average, and often
JH> wear short 'Roman' or 'crew' style haircuts). Tau Ceti and
JH> Epsilon Eridani are said to be a major 'convergence' of
JH> exterran 'human' activity, and are alleged to be in alliance
JH> with the Pleiadeans (who in turn, according to contactees, have
JH> 'Federation' alliances with the Vegans and the Ummites, etc.).
JH> The Cetians allegedly work with the Pleiadeans and 'other'
JH> societies who have been 'victimized' by the 'Grey' predators
JH> (Evadamic).
Don't these people drive cabs and work in convenience stores? };)
... Heller's Law: The first myth of management is that it exists.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: >> Ubik: Another goddamn BBS << (1:203/289.0)
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: What bet?
|Date: 03 Mar 96 17:06:17
EID:18cf 206388c0
\_|_|||||||||| __|_
/ |||| |||
J.J. Hitt > Masochistic Maiden : What bet?
JH>> You owe me fifty dollars. Pay up.
MM> Nah, I don't remember setting up a wager with you.
JH> There is no wager.
JH> You owe me fifty dollars, just because.
JH> Don't bother asking questions, or demanding evidence.
JH> Just pay.
Ah, I see that the new church is getting off the ground to really
aggressive fundraising practices. Good. After you have all our money
you won't start demanding cybersex from us, will you? I already gave
at the PTL ministry . . . };)
... Mating call of a redhead: "Look, guys, no henna!"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: >> Ubik: Another goddamn BBS << (1:203/289.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
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|From: Robert Berndt
|To: Styx Allum
|Sub: Founding Father Beliefs
|Date: 05 Mar 96 23:35:08
EID:d9da 2065bc60
MSGID: 1:280/26 6517a3eb
TID: InterEcho 1.16 6E011051
On 02/07/96 at 00:20 STYX ALLUM posted to me the following quote, supposedly
from George Washington:
SA>> "The United States is in no sense founded upon Christian Doctrine"
Since he did not post his reference, it is impossible to tell where he got
the quote. He also posted me the following challenge:
SA>> This is not a Christian nation. Don't just take my word for it. Take
George Washington's.
In researching the material, I discovered the following quotes from George
Washington, which I am sure many of you will find very interesting:
It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.
-The Myth of Separation (Aledo, TX: Wallbuilder Press, 1991) pg. 150.
It is impossible to account for the creation of the universe, without the
agency of a Supreme Being. It is impossible to govern the universe without
the aid of a Supreme Being. It is impossible to reason without arriving
at a Supreme Being.
Religion is as necessary to reason, as reason is to religion. The one cannot
exist without the other. A reasoning being would lose his reason, in attempting
to account for the great phenomena of nature, had he not a Supreme Being
to refer to. - Faith of Our Founding Fathers (Brentwood, TN: Wolgemuth &
Hyatt, Publishers, Inc., 1987), pg. 104.
Almighty God; We make our earnest prayer that Thou wilt keep the United
States in Thy Holy protection; and Thou wilt keep the United States in Thy
Holy protection; and Thou wilt incline the hearts of the Citizens to cultivate
a spirit of subordination and obedience to Government; and entertain a brotherly
affection and love for one another and for their fellow Citizens of the
United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served
in the Field.
And finally that Thou wilt most graciously be pleased to dispose us all
to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that Charity,
humility, and pacific temper of mind which were the Characteristics of the
Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without a humble imitation of
whose example in these things we can never hope to be a happy nation.
Grant our supplication, we beseech Thee, through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Amen - Maxims of Washington (Mt. Vernon: Mt. Vernon Ladies Associations,
1942), pg 299.
On October 9, 1789, President Washington wrote:
While just government protects all in their religious rights, true religion
affords to government its surest support.
- The Writings of Washington (Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing
Office, 1932, Vol. XXX) pg. 432.
George Washington had a personal prayer book, consisting of 24 pages in
his field notebook, written in his own handwriting. For the sake of space
I will include only his entry for a Monday morning:
O eternal and everlasting God, I presume to present myself this morning
before Thy Divine Majesty, beseeching Thee to accept of my humble and hearty
thanks... Direct my thoughts, words and work, wash away my sins in the immaculate
Blood of the Lamb, and purge my heart by Thy Holy Spirit... Daily frame
me more and more into the likeness of Thy Son, Jesus Christ, that living
in They fear, and dying in Thy favor, I may in Thy appointed time attain
the resurrection of the just unto eternal life. Bless my family, friends
and kindred, and unite us all in praising and glorifying Thee in all our
works. - George Washington, the Christian (Nashville, Tenn.: Abingdon Press,
1919), pg. 23-28.
On May 10, 1789, Washington stated:
If I could have entertained the slightest apprehension that the Constitution
framed by the Convention, where I had the honor to preside, might possibly
endanger the religious rights of any ecclesiastical Society, certainly I
would never have placed my signature to it. -The Washington Papers (New
York: Harper and Bros., 1955), pg 410-411.
Styx, the quotes I found are in direct contradiction to the one-liner you
posted me. I did as you asked, and I have done the research and looked
up the quotes for George Washington. But believe me, I also looked up material
for the other persons you quoted from, namely Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson,
James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Thomas Paine, Abraham Lincoln,
and Benjamin Franklin. There is substantial evidence that they had faith
in God, as well as implemented their beliefs into our governmental foundation.
I will be posting on them as well, just to make sure that your curiosity
doesnt kill you.
Post your sources Styx, or it will be safe to assume that you made it up
the quotes.
--- InterEcho 1.16
* Origin: Messages Galore BBS!!, 816-241-6807, Kansas City MO (1:280/26)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
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SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
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|From: Robert Berndt
|To: All
|Sub: Founding Father Beliefs
|Date: 05 Mar 96 23:41:47
EID:5ca9 2065bd20
MSGID: 1:280/26 6517a3fc
TID: InterEcho 1.16 6E011051
On 02/07/96 at 00:20 STYX ALLUM posted to me the following quote, supposedly
from George Washington:
SA>> "The United States is in no sense founded upon Christian Doctrine"
Since he did not post his reference, it is impossible to tell where he got
the quote. He also posted me the following challenge:
SA>> This is not a Christian nation. Don't just take my word for it. Take
George Washington's.
In researching the material, I discovered the following quotes from George
Washington, which I am sure many of you will find very interesting:
It is impossible to rightly govern the world without God and the Bible.
-The Myth of Separation (Aledo, TX: Wallbuilder Press, 1991) pg. 150.
It is impossible to account for the creation of the universe, without the
agency of a Supreme Being. It is impossible to govern the universe without
the aid of a Supreme Being. It is impossible to reason without arriving
at a Supreme Being.
Religion is as necessary to reason, as reason is to religion. The one cannot
exist without the other. A reasoning being would lose his reason, in attempting
to account for the great phenomena of nature, had he not a Supreme Being
to refer to. - Faith of Our Founding Fathers (Brentwood, TN: Wolgemuth &
Hyatt, Publishers, Inc., 1987), pg. 104.
Almighty God; We make our earnest prayer that Thou wilt keep the United
States in Thy Holy protection; and Thou wilt keep the United States in Thy
Holy protection; and Thou wilt incline the hearts of the Citizens to cultivate
a spirit of subordination and obedience to Government; and entertain a brotherly
affection and love for one another and for their fellow Citizens of the
United States at large, and particularly for their brethren who have served
in the Field.
And finally that Thou wilt most graciously be pleased to dispose us all
to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that Charity,
humility, and pacific temper of mind which were the Characteristics of the
Divine Author of our blessed Religion, and without a humble imitation of
whose example in these things we can never hope to be a happy nation.
Grant our supplication, we beseech Thee, through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Amen - Maxims of Washington (Mt. Vernon: Mt. Vernon Ladies Associations,
1942), pg 299.
On October 9, 1789, President Washington wrote:
While just government protects all in their religious rights, true religion
affords to government its surest support.
- The Writings of Washington (Washington, D.C.: U.S. Government Printing
Office, 1932, Vol. XXX) pg. 432.
George Washington had a personal prayer book, consisting of 24 pages in
his field notebook, written in his own handwriting. For the sake of space
I will include only his entry for a Monday morning:
O eternal and everlasting God, I presume to present myself this morning
before Thy Divine Majesty, beseeching Thee to accept of my humble and hearty
thanks... Direct my thoughts, words and work, wash away my sins in the immaculate
Blood of the Lamb, and purge my heart by Thy Holy Spirit... Daily frame
me more and more into the likeness of Thy Son, Jesus Christ, that living
in They fear, and dying in Thy favor, I may in Thy appointed time attain
the resurrection of the just unto eternal life. Bless my family, friends
and kindred, and unite us all in praising and glorifying Thee in all our
works. - George Washington, the Christian (Nashville, Tenn.: Abingdon Press,
1919), pg. 23-28.
On May 10, 1789, Washington stated:
If I could have entertained the slightest apprehension that the Constitution
framed by the Convention, where I had the honor to preside, might possibly
endanger the religious rights of any ecclesiastical Society, certainly I
would never have placed my signature to it. -The Washington Papers (New
York: Harper and Bros., 1955), pg 410-411.
Styx, the quotes I found are in direct contradiction to the one-liner you
posted me. I did as you asked, and I have done the research and looked
up the quotes for George Washington. But believe me, I also looked up material
for the other persons you quoted from, namely Thomas Paine, Thomas Jefferson,
James Madison, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, Thomas Paine, Abraham Lincoln,
and Benjamin Franklin. There is substantial evidence that they had faith
in God, as well as implemented their beliefs into our governmental foundation.
I will be posting on them as well, just to make sure that your curiosity
doesnt kill you.
Post your sources Styx, or it will be safe to assume that you made it up
the quotes.
--- InterEcho 1.16
* Origin: Messages Galore BBS!!, 816-241-6807, Kansas City MO (1:280/26)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/92 1103 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907
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SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
SEEN-BY: 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
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PATH: 280/26 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Tom Hart
|To: MICHAEL HARDY
|Sub: Allegory
|Date: 05 Mar 96 09:59:35
EID:d152 20654f60
MH@> MH@> THEIST: Obviously, it's either a metaphor or a matter of perspective
MH@> MH@> ATHEIST: SALAD BAR!!!
MH@> TH> Tell me, what is metaphor/perspective or not literal in your bible?
MH@> TH> If you do not know, aren't you guessing? If you do know, how do
you
MH@> TH> know? Have you asked the author?
MH@> You can't know for certain. You can make *educated* guesses, though.
So your God is a guess. Please *_NEVER_* pass your guess as fact.
That would be dishonest wouldn't it? Please (I ask again) what is
not metaphor/perspective or is literal in your bible, and why?
MH@> TH> It would be dishonest to say a part is not literal unless you know
MH@> TH> what the author ment. If religious text are to be reguarded as
factual
MH@> TH> why would you say part of it isn't factual?
MH@> Who says it's all to be regarded as factual? I don't know of
If there is any guess work the "divine inspiration" by an
omniscient being is a joke.
You say you make educated guess(s). I say your educated guess(s) are
wrong. Do you take into account the fact that you cannot show me your
God? (of course if you can show me your God, please do)
I would be happy with you writting your gov't officials saying, God
is a guess, lets not inflict everybody with our religion through "in God
we trust", schhol prayer, etc..
* OLX 2.1 TD * Trinity - a 3 for 1 sale on Deities.
--- VFIDO 7.00.11{52 Days Left}
* Origin: The CooKoo's Nest (1:3814/405)
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|From: Tom Hart
|To: MICHAEL HARDY
|Sub: Ducks?
|Date: 05 Mar 96 09:59:37
EID:c1e7 20654f60
MH@> MM> comes.... I admire those who respect others expression of faith,
and a
MH@> MM> disappointed when I run across those who scream "My way or the
MH@> MM> highway!"
MH@> If you strongly believe something is true, should you be restrained
MH@> from at least discussing it with people? I don't mean legislating
MH@> religious belief -- which can't be really done anyway -- but free
MH@> speech and open debate.
Have you called/written to your gov't reps. yet to tell them you
do not want religion legislated and to repleal the current religious
legislation?
Discussion has to be honest though, wouldn't you agree? And name
calling, like saying someone is "closed-minded", isn't helpful in trying
to communicate.
* OLX 2.1 TD * If Atheism is a religion then health is a disease.
--- VFIDO 7.00.11{52 Days Left}
* Origin: The CooKoo's Nest (1:3814/405)
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SEEN-BY: 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 147/76 150/1 153/800 920 157/586
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SEEN-BY: 270/104 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 283/121 292/876 320/119 340/20
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PATH: 3814/405 8 170/400 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Tom Hart
|To: MICHAEL HARDY
|Sub: Flood
|Date: 05 Mar 96 09:59:39
EID:37c1 20654f60
MH@> OK, I'll rephrase.
MH@> The resurrection of Jesus must have really happened, because people
who
MH@> lived at the same time and in the same place knew it happened. And
MH@> anyone with an IQ over 20 -- which probably leaves you out, I know
--
Is this the Christian way to respond to someone? ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You know I'm often curious why an appology to the person you have
insulted isn't preeached at church. Just say your sorry to God and
everything is ok.
MH@> realizes that people who live at the time and place an event happens
MH@> know more about it than people 1,900+ years later thousands of miles
MH@> away.
There was MUCH people of 1,900+ years ago did not understand, but
thought they did.
* OLX 2.1 TD * Revelation 21:8 Heaven = 525C,Hell = 445C Applied Optics
--- VFIDO 7.00.11{52 Days Left}
* Origin: The CooKoo's Nest (1:3814/405)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 941 120/229
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|From: Aaron Boyden
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: Christianity
|Date: 06 Mar 96 00:27:00
EID:10ce aa007400
MSGID: 1:206/2720 2100430c
REPLY: 1:207/212 68f892a3
PID: FM 2.2c.mL OC0000B3
> AM> Many who comment on this echo, don't just disbelieve in God, but
> AM> loathe the God they claim they don't believe in.
> Consider it along the lines of "I wouldn't worship
> that guy even if he
> was shown to exist."
A noble sentiment, to be sure, but even though it would surely be home to
all the truly interesting people, I think I'd take almost any steps to avoid
hell if I had any reason to think it existed. That does, I suppose, assume
I could stay sane if confronted with the existence of the hopelessly absurd
universe Christianity describes; drop that assumption, and I can of course
no longer predict what I'd do. I'm very glad this is all completely hypothetical,
though.
--- TosScan(q) 1.00
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: Waco Rememberance.1
|Date: 04 Mar 96 19:15:13
EID:3c93 206499e0
And lo, Terry did whine incessantly about Waco Rememberance.1 to Norbert!
NS> Hey, the military isn't paid to think. That doesn't excuse
NS> them, but get a clue.
TL> Get a clue about the Nuremberg trials. Now show us how much you know.
NS> Your point of this being . . . ??? Are you somehow
NS> equivocating less than a thousand Branch Davidians with
NS> almost 6 million jews?
TL> ROTFLMAO!!!!!! Well, I asked you to show us how much you know and
TL> you obliged. Wahahahahaahah!!!!!!!!!!!
NS> You obviously (now that I see this, your response note)
NS> intended for this [to] refer to the "I was following orders"
NS> part of said Nuremburg Trials.
TL> Halalulya!!! He acknowledges a point made several posts ago. Yer
TL> right on top of things, arn't you.
c/Halalulya/Halleluja
c/Yer/Your
c/arn't/aren't
Ah Terry, how you rave! I asked for clarification and you frothed
at the mouth, bit up the rug a bit, and spewed all over the place.
I have no idea what you're so afraid of, but perhaps it would be
better to start taking your medications again.
NS> Yet you didn't make it clear, thereby completing a leap in
NS> logic that was clear to only you.
TL> and anyone who dosn't have a vacuum inserted where their brain is
TL> supposed to be.
c/and/And
c/dosn't/doesn't
I would guess you to be the expert on said vacuum instead of a
brain, then. Or perhaps the poster-child?
NS> Unless you expected me to read your mind?
TL> Only text reading by anyone with a reasonable background knowledge of
TL> the world; something you were lacking, evidently.
I forgot, and I apologize. I should have realized that we first
have to establish that you have a brain before I can blithely ask
if you expected me to read it. This obviously caused you much
consternation. And, silly me, since you mentioned a trial for
individuals at Waco in the same electronic breath as the Nuremberg
Trials, I just assumed you were making a connection. I should have
thought harder and realized that you might be unable to actually
make such a connection, and that the act of trying to comprehend
this would give you seizures of the type we've seen here. You're
`special' to all of us here, Terry, and we wouldn't hurt you for
the world.
NS> Yet, obviously, you are equating Waco with Nazi
NS> Germany in your statement, above,
TL> Not me. If you are attempting to 'read my mind,' you missed.
Apparently. Note you didn't answer either the question about were
you making the connection or the question about if you wanted me to
read your mind. But that's okay, you've had a lot to think about;
building up a decent froth at the unfairness of it all, learning to
tie your shoes, etc. And, its almost time for Wolpner, isn't it?
I would assume, because I missed, that either I'm not good at mind
reading, or there was no receiver for me to hook up with. But
don't worry your head about that. You have enough to do with
ignoring the fact that you did make the connection in the first
place (though we all admit it was an accident, so don't get nervous
. . . 1,000 monkeys with typewriters might have made such a mistake,
given sufficiently long) AND that you continue to ignore my
subsequent questions. Don't fret about it. Just get better.
NS> even if that wasn't your intention.
TL> You DID read my mind.
Ah, you didn't intend to make the connection. And thusly, when I
asked you, you could have just said no, you didn't intend to make
that connection. But it was good aerobic exercise to rant at the
computer a bit too, I imagine.
NS> How can you justify such a comparrison?
TL> Since that's not a comparison I made and I can't 'read your mind,'
TL> you'll have to just outright tell us how YOU 'make such a comparison.'
I? You scamp! `I' didn't first mention the two of them together.
You did.
(Continued Next Post)
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: Waco Rememberance.2
|Date: 04 Mar 96 19:15:56
EID:3dd3 206499e0
(Continued From Previous Post)
NS> Are you naturally clueless, or did you have to work for this
NS> level of enlightenment?
TL> tediously explains.... Nueremburg was the site of the Nazi war crimes
NS> Wouldn't need to make tedious explanations if had been clear
NS> from the start . . .
TL> Hey, some people with shit for brains are clueless even when you hand
TL> them the clue.
And I guess you would know this better than most, right?
TL> trials and the reference is not intended to be 'equivocating less than
TL> a thousand Branch Davidians with almost 6 million Jews.' I am
TL> referring to a commn defense attempted by Nazis at these trials, which
TL> was 'I was just following orders.'
NS> I know all about this. But thanx for reminding me.
TL> It didn't exonerate them anymore than it exonerates the govt
TL> agents who followed orders to run tanks thru a residence
TL> occupied by men, women and children.
NS> So you doubt that the agents were in actuality operating to
NS> try to save lives?
TL> Drive tank thru residence occupied with kids to SAVE the kids thus
TL> causing some of said kids to die that way?
c/thru/through
Ah, you're still troubled, I can tell. I asked if you thought that
the agents were trying to save lives by their actions. I know you
get confused by too many stimuli, so let me say that you can answer
this either yes or no, your choice. Nothing else is required.
TL> You're right, I'm 'clueless' as to how those 'agents were in actuality
TL> operating to try to save lives.'
I don't doubt it. And that wasn't exactly what I asked, was it? I
asked:
NS> So you doubt that the agents were in actuality operating to
NS> try to save lives?
Again, a simple yes or no question totally ignored. I guess you need
a nap, eh?
TL> If I want to 'save' a kid, it would just never occur to me to
TL> drive a tank thru that kids home with the kid still IN the home.
c/kids/kid's
Nor would it to me. I merely asked you what _you_ thought were the
feelings/rationales of the drivers that went in with the tanks.
You could even give us what you thought the rationales were for
those who ordered the tanks to go in. I'm more than sure you have
opinions on this.
BTW, why haven't you supplied the other answers I asked you,
answers very pertinent to this discussion: who were the children
killed by the tanks? And, who drove those tanks (I.e., who killed
the children by driving the tanks over them) and how many children
were killed? You go to great effort to try to appear to know all
of this, these should be simple statistics to give to us. But I
guess you've been busy counting toothpicks or something, eh?
Did the tanks go through the house? According to your quote of the
juror, the tanks penetrated the house, but it didn't mention that
the tanks went complete through the house.
NS> And another thing, do you have any idea if the agents there
NS> were operating within the parameters of the rules for such a
NS> confrontation or not?
TL> There are no Constitutionally allowed 'rules' that include driving a
TL> tank thru a residence occupied by men, women and children.
I didn't mention the Constitution. I know this is all happening
really really fast for you, Terry, so I'll attempt to type slower.
Were the agents operating within _any_ rules for the encounter
(Constitutional or otherwise), do you know? Its okay to say you
don't know if you don't. No one's going to jeer at you.
(Continued On Next Post)
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: Waco Rememberance.3
|Date: 04 Mar 96 19:16:34
EID:fd12 20649a00
(Continued From Previous Post)
NS> And, what you ignore most of all is that it was David Koresh
NS> that was the cause of all of this.
TL> Oh yes, I forgot. His spirit wafted out of the window and into the
TL> tank and then drove the tank thru the residence. I guess us
TL> 'clueless' ones have trouble envisioning that.
NS> He brainwashed these people, he held them captive, he raped
NS> and molested them, he emperiled them, he lead directly to many
NS> of their deaths. Yet you run away from this point constant,
TL> Let me spell this out H E IS D E A D and H E N E V E R W O R K
E
TL> D FOR US!!! You are obsessing on a dead white guy; he can't hurt
TL> anyone; GET IT.
I know he's dead, Terry. Everyone knows that he is dead. But he
_IS_ directly responsible for those people being held hostage
there, is he not? Yet you ignore him in your vitriolic attacks.
And its true, he can't hurt anyone anymore (unless someone drops
his urn on their toe or something, I suppose) BUT he DID hurt a lot
of those people, caused the death of a great many of them, and
thusly is worthwhile to include in the conversation.
NS> somehow thinking that it was the Government workers, aka tank
NS> drivers, who were at fault, when they were clearly following
NS> the law of the country.
TL> What 'country' do you live in?
I don't live in a 'country', I live in a country called the USA, where
people are assumed to be innocent until proven guilty. And you? Until
you can answer my question above about if the officers were following
any rules (Constitutional or otherwise) or procedures in regard to
the conflict, you can't unilaterally state that they were not
following the law of the land. Please note: the law of the land
constitutes many things: the Constitution on down to local
ordinances, etc.
TL> There is NO United States Constitutional 'law' that allows govt agents
TL> to drive a tank thru a residence occupied by men, women and children,
TL> thus causing some of the kids to die.
Again, I didn't limit it to Constitutional law. Please answer the
question: and its okay to say you don't know. And again, tell us
how many kids were killed by tanks, and who the tank drivers were
that killed them, etc. Otherwise, its just hearsay on your part.
NS> If the tank drivers had died in the confrontation, who would
NS> you blame
TL> The tank drivers for following orders they had no business following
TL> and their commanders who gave them unconstitutional orders.
Again, I made no mention of Constitutionality in regards to the
orders or the law of the land. You say you would blame the tank
drivers and their commanders . . . yet all you've done up to now is
yell about the tank drivers. Why aren't you going after the
commanders?
TL> Should the 'tank' drivers be exempted from manslaughter charges
TL> because they 'were just following orders?'
c/exempted/exempt
Not knowing everything about the case, I have no idea. As soon as
you supply the information I have been repeatedly asking you for, I
will be better informed and in a better position to make such a
decision. I would hope that you could appreciate that I would only
want to make an informed decision. Why don't you file a class action
suit or press charges if it chews at you so much? You're certainly
within your right to do so as, presumably, a citizen of this country.
(Continued On Next Post)
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: Waco Rememberance.4
|Date: 04 Mar 96 19:17:09
EID:3f53 20649a20
(Continued From Previous Post)
NS> Manslaughter implies conscious volition. How did the tank
NS> drivers know what was on the other side of the walls?
TL> Yeah, that's it. The tank drivers didn't know that anyone was IN the
TL> residence that was on TV for the 51 day siege. Hahahahhahahahah!!!!
NS> You missed the point. I'm absolutely positive that no tank
NS> driver said to himself, let's run this through the wall and
NS> kill people.
TL> I agree; then the charge would be murder instead of manslaughter.
NS> Good. At least we agree that they probably didn't intend
NS> to kill those people.
NS> I _am_ curious, though . . . why do you insist on going
NS> after the keepers of peace that operated within the law in
NS> a dangerous encounter who were clearly trying to save lives,
TL> Driving tanks thru a residence occupied by men, women and children is
TL> neither peaceful nor legal.
Please give us all the laws that cite it as illegal. BTW, I didn't
say that it was peaceful, I referred to the officers as
peace-keepers. Surely, living in Texas as you do with the Texas
Rangers, etc., you can recognize that title?
TL> Can you cite a Constitutional law that allows that?
Again, you limit it by Constitutional law. Can you cite a
Constitutional law that forbids driving a tank through a building?
Rather than limiting it, Terry, why don't you give me the
information I repeatedly ask you for?
NS> and yet ignore or exonerate those who caused all
NS> this: David Koresh, etc., of the Branch Davidians?
TL> I havn't ignored him, I told you several times, he's dead.
I know he's dead Terry. Why, do you still see him around?
TL> He can't do anything to anyone anymore and we can't do anything
TL> to him anymore. GET IT?
Yet you post as though he was not at fault at all. I'm not the
only one seeing this, it is clear from how others are posting
to you that they see the same thing. How can you expect anyone to
admit blame, etc., when we don't start denoting blame at the very
root: David Koresh?
TL> However, govt agents, our employees, who killed children during the
TL> tank assault are STILL on the public payroll. THEY are our
TL> responsibility.
c/govt/government
Perhaps you are right. However, I still await the statistics I've
asked you for before passing any judgment myself.
NS> You remind me of DiNiro in Apocalypse Now: "Ah, I love the
NS> smell of napalm in the morning . . . it smells like . . .
NS> victory . . ."
TL> uhhh..... Rong Robert. You're quoting Duval not DiNiro. Are you this
TL> accurate about the rest of your stuff?
NS> Well, I made a mistake. And I can admit it. I can also
NS> spell the word 'wrong'. So I missed a bit of trivia in
NS> Popular Culture;
TL> along with an understanding of intentional humor.
c/along/Along
So you intentionally misspell words just to be funny? Usually,
when I'm trying to be funny in this sort of media, I apply an
emoticon to clue people in, thusly: };) Of course, you may only be
saying it was intentional now. And I could say I intentionally
misquoted. And we'd all have a good laugh, eh? }:)
NS> And idiots use all of the above to justify the
NS> bombing at Oklahoma City, etc.
TL> Hey, ANOTHER cool distraction! You can remain in denial about the
TL> part WE are responsible for; the govt agents that work for US.
NS> Denial of what?
TL> The need to bring govt agents to justice for driving tanks thru
TL> a residence occupied by men, women and children, thus causing
TL> some of the kids to die.
I don't deny it, if children were indeed killed and the agents were
clearly working outside of applicable rules and regulations for
such an encounter. You haven't supplied the information about
that, though . . . have you? And you probably won't either.
(Continued On Next Post)
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: Waco Rememberance.5
|Date: 04 Mar 96 19:17:39
EID:ff92 20649a20
(Continued From Previous Post)
NS> Manslaughter implies conscious volition. How did the tank
NS> drivers know what was on the other side of the walls?
TL> Yeah, that's it. The tank drivers didn't know that anyone was IN the
TL> residence that was on TV for the 51 day siege. Hahahahhahahahah!!!!
NS> You missed the point. I'm absolutely positive that no tank
NS> driver said to himself, let's run this through the wall and
NS> kill people.
TL> I agree; then the charge would be murder instead of manslaughter.
NS> Good. At least we agree that they probably didn't intend
NS> to kill those people.
NS> I _am_ curious, though . . . why do you insist on going
NS> after the keepers of peace that operated within the law in
NS> a dangerous encounter who were clearly trying to save lives,
TL> Driving tanks thru a residence occupied by men, women and children is
TL> neither peaceful nor legal.
Please give us all the laws that cite it as illegal. BTW, I didn't
say that it was peaceful, I referred to the officers as
peace-keepers. Surely, living in Texas as you do with the Texas
Rangers, etc., you can recognize that title?
TL> Can you cite a Constitutional law that allows that?
Again, you limit it by Constitutional law. Can you cite a
Constitutional law that forbids driving a tank through a building?
Rather than limiting it, Terry, why don't you give me the
information I repeatedly ask you for?
NS> and yet ignore or exonerate those who caused all
NS> this: David Koresh, etc., of the Branch Davidians?
TL> I havn't ignored him, I told you several times, he's dead.
I know he's dead Terry. Why, do you still see him around?
TL> He can't do anything to anyone anymore and we can't do anything
TL> to him anymore. GET IT?
Yet you post as though he was not at fault at all. I'm not the
only one seeing this, it is clear from how others are posting
to you that they see the same thing. How can you expect anyone to
admit blame, etc., when we don't start denoting blame at the very
root: David Koresh?
TL> However, govt agents, our employees, who killed children during the
TL> tank assault are STILL on the public payroll. THEY are our
TL> responsibility.
c/govt/government
Perhaps you are right. However, I still await the statistics I've
asked you for before passing any judgment myself.
NS> You remind me of DiNiro in Apocalypse Now: "Ah, I love the
NS> smell of napalm in the morning . . . it smells like . . .
NS> victory . . ."
TL> uhhh..... Rong Robert. You're quoting Duval not DiNiro. Are you this
TL> accurate about the rest of your stuff?
NS> Well, I made a mistake. And I can admit it. I can also
NS> spell the word 'wrong'. So I missed a bit of trivia in
NS> Popular Culture;
TL> along with an understanding of intentional humor.
c/along/Along
So you intentionally misspell words just to be funny? Usually,
when I'm trying to be funny in this sort of media, I apply an
emoticon to clue people in, thusly: };) Of course, you may only be
saying it was intentional now. And I could say I intentionally
misquoted. And we'd all have a good laugh, eh? }:)
NS> And idiots use all of the above to justify the
NS> bombing at Oklahoma City, etc.
TL> Hey, ANOTHER cool distraction! You can remain in denial about the
TL> part WE are responsible for; the govt agents that work for US.
NS> Denial of what?
TL> The need to bring govt agents to justice for driving tanks thru
TL> a residence occupied by men, women and children, thus causing
TL> some of the kids to die.
I don't deny it, if children were indeed killed and the agents were
clearly working outside of applicable rules and regulations for
such an encounter. You haven't supplied the information about
that, though . . . have you? And you probably won't either.
(Continued On Next Post)
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: >> Ubik: Another goddamn BBS << (1:203/289.0)
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: Waco Rememberance.6
|Date: 04 Mar 96 19:18:34
EID:fed2 20649a40
(Continued From Previous Post)
TL> Since this has been said often and recently, is there something
TL> wrong with your feed; did you not read those posts?
I read every post in HOLYSMOKE that comes into the BBS I get it
from, and have been reading them for the past two months. And I have
never seen this from you. But I've been cognizant of the fact that
I've not seen certain posts, etc. It's entirely possible there's
been some traffic lost in the ether of the FIDO nets. I know one
other poster has asked you similar questions, inclining me to
believe that some mail is getting lost. Its entirely possible,
since the BBS I post from only keeps 150 messages in HOLYSMOKE at a
time, that some may be scrolling off, too, before I can get to
them. However, I note from Fredric Rice's post that he has had the
same problem in getting a similar answer from you, so maybe the
FIDO problems are more far-ranging. Or maybe you didn't post the
answer you claim to have posted. I'm willing to believe that the
FIDO feed is part of the problem, though.
TL> Or are you just engaging in slanderous hatemongering?
slander (slan'duhr) --noun
A false and malicious statement or report that
damages the reputation or well-being of another.
--verb
To utter slander (about).
[< Gk. skandalon, trap]
--slan'derer noun
--slan'derous adjective
--slan'derously adverb
Who have I slandered? I have slandered no one. Have I
hate-mongered? Not in any instance I'm aware of. Yet I would
accuse you of doing so.
TL> Your prejudices ought to be strong enough to spew forth a judgement
TL> about someone you don't know, right?
NS> Why do you assume that I'm prejudicial about you, when I
NS> may just be prejudicial against all extremists, elitists,
NS> etc.?
TL> Gosh, and I thought it was just me you were prejudiced. Now you
TL> say you're prejudiced against a whole bunch of people you don't
TL> know. Excuuuuse me.
c/you were prejudiced./you were prejudiced about.
c/Excuuuuse/Excuse
Now you're a liar. I said:
NS> Why do you assume that I'm prejudicial about you, when I
NS> MAY just be prejudicial against all extremists, elitists,
NS> etc.?
. . . in other words, since your reading ability is impaired, I
asked why you ASSUMED that I was prejudiced against you when I
could be prejudiced against others instead. I know you feel
persecuted, and I don't want you to cry, but you're lying about
what I said. Note the word `may'.
NS> But, I should note: YOUR prejudices are strong
NS> enough for you to spew forth a judgment about someone you
NS> don't know.
TL> Unlike you, I'm making judgements about the actual stuff you
TL> post. GET IT?
Oh, I didn't say you were spewing judgment against me. You're
spewing judgment against the officers at Waco. Aren't you? And
further, you're spewing the prejudicial statement against them and
you don't even know them, do you? Yet you accuse me of prejudice.
Are you intentionally oblivious?
But I will take it as a given that you're prejudicial against me,
for you admit it above. So you have a double standard.
Interesting.
NS> My information base is fine. I suppose you meant my narrow
NS> mind, or some such thing.
TL> Express it anyway you like. I defend freedom of expression.
Yet you would limit mine. How droll. You're just a hypocrite,
aren't you?
(Continued From Previous Post)
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: Waco Rememberance.7
|Date: 04 Mar 96 19:19:23
EID:3e13 20649a60
(Continued from previous post)
NS> Need I remind you that YOU equated Waco with WWII, not I.
TL> You mistakenly thougt I made that equation when I refered to
TL> the failed Nuremburg war crimes defence of 'I was just
TL> following orders.'
c/thougt/thought
c/refered/referred
c/Nuremburg/Nuremberg
And you had plenty of space and time to clear that up, since you
had not made it clear, but found instead that you needed to attempt
to shout me down. I still don't know what you were afraid of,
Terry.
TL> Do you always have this much trouble parsing sentences and
TL> processing concepts?
I always ask for clarification of those who can't marshall their
thoughts and reasoning abilities enough to make clear statements.
If you didn't assume that everyone knew what you meant when you
posted it, you wouldn't have those problems.
(Continued on next post)
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: Waco Rememberance.8
|Date: 04 Mar 96 19:19:56
EID:3a53 20649a60
(Continued from previous post)
Norbert Sykes wrote in a message to Terry Liberty-Parker:
NS> Terry Liberty-Parker > Fredric Rice : Waco Web Site
TL> Fredric Rice wrote in a message to Terry Liberty-Parker:
> For those of you who have access to the InterNet World Wide Web:
> http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~cwalker/waco/waco.html
> A Web site about the American tragedy of Waco.
FR> Neat! Does it also include your friends who blew up the
FR> federal building in Oklahoma?
TL> Hang on to your hatemongering prejudice, Fred. It's apparently the
TL> only thing your being comforted by these days.
NS> Why didn't you answer him? Why are you running away from
NS> the question? What are you afraid of?
TL> I answered him several times. No Waco protestor I know believes
TL> that taking more innocent life is a way to protest the taking of
TL> innocent life at Waco.
Well, take my word for it that I've only seen this on this
occasion.
TL> Bigots continue to slander with lies in the hopes that someone
TL> new to a thread may be taking in by their prejudicial
TL> hatemongering.
c/taking/taken
c/hatemongering/hate mongering/or/hate-mongering
Bigots? Slander? Prejudicial hatemongering? Are these the only
words you know? None of these has been established, you just shout
them out when cornered.
NS> JJ posts from Houston, according the to origin line I see
NS> on his posts. You post from Austin. Is there that much a
NS> difference in weather between the two of you?
TL> Yes, quit a bit. Texas is a big state with a lot of diversity.
I knew it was the second largest state in the Union, and assumed
that it had diversity. I also thought (perhaps from watching
Lonesome Dove too much) that it was mostly flat, especially the
stretch between Houston and Austin. Thusly my question about the
weather.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Norbert Sykes wrote in a message to Terry Liberty-Parker:
NS> Terry Liberty-Parker > Dan Ceppa : Waco Rememberance
> Dan Ceppa wrote in a message to Terry Liberty-parker:
> On 02-28-96 13:26, Terry Liberty-parker got back to David Worrell
DW> Not this shit *again*. Here I was thinking you might have
DW> actually approached human status.
TL> Gee, if your prejudice makes you this uncomfortable, GET OVER IT.
DW> I guess we all make mistakes.
TL> Only when being sub-human.
DC> You haven't risen to even that level.
TL> Ah, the prejudiced sphincter arises again.
NS> Firstly, this clearly marks you as prejudicial.
TL> If you want RATIONAL people to agree with you, you actually have
TL> to PRESENT the rationale for your otherwise UNFOUNDED assertion.
TL> GET IT?
Ah, but I'm not talking to a rational person, I'm talking to you,
Terry. You assume that anyone that complains is prejudiced. With
no clear connection there, the only thing that can be implied is
that your are, yourself, prejudicial. I understand most people are
prejudicial in some way or another, so no reason to flame or get
all teary-eyed. As for having anyone agree with me: why would I
want that? I actually don't care. Your assertion is unfounded
unless you can actually show how Dan Ceppa, Fredric Rice, or I are
really prejudicial when we question you or complain. The burden of
proof's on you, since you make the allegation.
NS> Secondly, if you wee referring to the anal sphincter, it is
NS> physically incapable of 'arising'.
TL> You are clearly unaware of the head in the sand posture assumed
TL> by the poster.
I assumed as much by the garbled speech, but steadfastly refused to
actually look at you. And your statement above is yet ANOTHER
unfounded assertion. Can you prove it?
(Continued On Next Post)
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: Waco Rememberance.9
|Date: 04 Mar 96 19:20:37
EID:fa92 20649a80
(Continued From Previous Post)
Ä Area: National Religious Debate Echo ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Msg#: 65 Rec'd Date: 04 Mar 96 14:47:25
From: Terry Liberty-Parker Read: Yes Replied:
No
To: Norbert Sykes Mark:
Subj: Waco Rememberance
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Norbert Sykes wrote in a message to Jim Germiquet:
NS> Jim Germiquet > Norbert Sykes : Waco Rememberance
TL> Many have distracted themselves from the need for justice by obsessing
TL> on child abuse allegations aimed at Branch Davidian leader, David
TL> Koresh. He is dead, and can no longer harm anyone. But, govt agents
TL> who followed orders to drive tanks thru a residence occupied with men,
TL> women and children, are still at large.
NS> The idea still hasn't crawled into your skull and died yet that
NS> perhaps Koresh was the one responsible for these deaths?
JG> I agree, if the officials went to the farm with a warrant and the
JG> occupants denied entry or resisted arrest, THEY are responsible
JG> for the outcome.
TL> THEY drove the tanks thru their own residence?
So here we see Terry replying to me about a post of Jim Germiquet.
Don't you have a clue, Terry, that by replying to me instead of to
Jim, you won't get your question answered? As HIM what he meant,
not me!
NS> Especially if the people were there at the whim of a madman
NS> who raped them, abused them, and held them hostage.
TL> And this, to you, makes it ok to drive tanks thru their residence
TL> while occupied by men, women and children.
TL> Hahahahahahahahahahhaah!!!!
c/thru/through
c/ok/okay
Again, an unfounded assumption on your part, with the emphasis on
ASS.
TL> Please explain Norbert/logic to us!
c/ Norbert/logic /Norbert Logic
I believe that one must back one's claims up with evidence.
(You have not done this, just keep tossing out same old quote
from some juror.)
If one claims that children were killed, one has to cite who they
were and how old they were.
(You haven't done this either.)
If one claims they were killed a certain way, one has to prove that.
(You have not done this either.)
If one claims that certain people did the killing, then one has to
prove that as well.
(You have not done this either.)
I believe just making ad hoc statements without proof in order to
stir up public opinion against anyone is hate-mongering.
(Note your behavior.)
I further believe that the inability to let people question one's
assertions indicates how shaky they actually are.
(Note your respond to decent questions with derision,
name-calling, avoidance, etc.)
I believe that anyone who answers a legitimate question with hate
rhetoric is a liar and a coward.
(. . . or unable to answer the question.)
NS> It's unfortunate that innocents died, but the US Government was
NS> not the one that put those people at risk.
TL> Let's see, driving tanks thru a residence occupied by men, women
TL> and children does NOT put the residents 'at risk.'
It doesn't? Terry, I know that you're not in touch with consential
reality where you are, but can you at least see it?
TL> Hahahahhaahhahahaha!!!!
I still think the medications would be a good idea.
TL> Please explain Norbert/logic to us!
I'm glad to see that I've given you yet another short phrase to add
to your vocabulary. The others were starting to wear out, but you
can probably get six-months of usage out of this one before it
starts to wear. Can you explain Terry Logic for us?
... URA redneck if your family tree does not branch.
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: David Johnston
|Sub: Angels Or Demons???
|Date: 04 Mar 96 19:24:16
EID:c448 20649b00
And lo, David did whine incessantly about Angels Or Demons??? to Anthony!
-> The sons of God were the descendants of Adam. Adam was the son of
-> God, the only son of God when he was formed (Luke 3:38). God's law
-> of reproduction states that everything brings forth of its own kind
-> (Genesis 1:11). So the sons of God were the descendants of Adam:
-> flesh and blood. The daughters of men were the descendents of Cain:
-> flesh and blood but unrelated to Adam because their father was the
-> Serpent, a man-like creature Satan inspired, and who seduced Eve
-> before Adam knew her as a husband knows his wife.
DJ> The serpent was Adam's sexual member. We are never told, even by
DJ> implication, that Adam was not Cain's father.
DJ> Oh, and since Eve was Adam's clade, anyone who was her offspring was
DJ> related to Adam.
Clade? Isn't that what you spray around the room to make it smell
better? };)
... "Geez... have you ever seen so many frigging Orcs? Guys? Guys?"
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: Waco Rememberance
|Date: 04 Mar 96 19:32:25
EID:60ea 20649c00
And lo, Terry did whine incessantly about Waco Rememberance to Jim!
TL> Jim Germiquet wrote in a message to Norbert Sykes:
JG>
TL> Many have distracted themselves from the need for justice by obsessing
TL> on child abuse allegations aimed at Branch Davidian leader, David
TL> Koresh. He is dead, and can no longer harm anyone. But, govt agents
TL> who followed orders to drive tanks thru a residence occupied with men,
TL> women and children, are still at large.
NS> The idea still hasn't crawled into your skull and died yet that
NS> perhaps Koresh was the one responsible for these deaths?
TL> Still obsessing on the dead white guy?
Still obsessing on dead people yourself, Terry. And I'll always
miss John Lennon . . .
NS> And idiots use all of the above to justify the bombing at
NS> Oklahoma City, etc.
TL> Since this poster has already been informed that none of the Waco
TL> protestors he is addressing believe that the taking of innocent life
TL> can be protested by taking more innocent life, he is spewing
TL> prejudicial hatemongering.
This is a lie. At the time of my post, I had not been so informed.
What about you spewing prejudicial hate-mongering?
JG> I agree, if the officials went to the farm with a warrant
JG> and the occupants denied entry or resisted arrest, THEY are
JG> responsible for the outcome.
TL> Since there is nothing that Branch Davidians did that could justify
TL> running tanks thru their residence occupied by men, women and
TL> children, and they didn't drive the tanks thru their own home, it
TL> appears that our employees are responsible for that part.
TL> You say otherwise? Please explain Germiquet logic to us.
You see, Jim? He ignores the root of the problem.
... URA redneck if "SAY NO TO CRACK" reminds you to pull your pants up.
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Re: Cult Christianity
|Date: 04 Mar 96 19:35:34
EID:7428 20649c60
And lo, Karl did whine incessantly about Re: Cult Christianity to O.j.!
OS> > SA> Gracious welcome, Megan! It's not often that we have participants
OS> > SA> joining us from Japan.
OS> > About as rare as a black poster on Holysmoke, eh?
OS>fuck off whitey...
KS> Damn, O.J.....that tape you told me to burn...? I think I left
KS> it on the counter at the Post Office...
KS> Sorry 'bout that...
You didn't tell him about the copies we made to sell, did you? Oh!
Nevermind! };)
... *BLAM!* *BLAM!* Make peck'ular patterns in my wheat field, will ya?!
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|From: Ross Catto
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: Christianity
|Date: 29 Feb 96 13:44:00
EID:cdad 205d6d80
MSGID: 1:229/15@fidonet.org 501f7e96
-> I see where Jesus broke RABINIC INTERPRETATION and TRADITION
-> on several occassions,
-> but where did He clearly break the OT law?
---
I'm fairly certain you won't agree with me on these, but I'm replying
online, from memory.
First, of course, was working on the sabbath. The fact that he
was doing good, or the disciples were hungry is inconsequential to
the law. Even gathering firewood, to warm a freezing family, was
punishable by death.
His association with sinners and non-Jews, even sharing meals
with them was also against the law. Remember, even Peter, even
after 3 visions, later refused to eat with Gentiles until rebuked
by Paul.
I'm sure there are other cases, but they've slipped my mind now.
Though Jesus certainly upheld the law, his teachings were a radical
departure from it, at least from the spirit of it.
For instance, the last supper differed on many points from the
jewish passover meal.
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0348
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|From: Ross Catto
|To: John Prewett
|Sub: Christianity
|Date: 01 Mar 96 08:48:00
EID:cdad 20614600
MSGID: 1:229/15@fidonet.org 28b802ff
--> ...but where did He break the OT law?
---
I thought of another example. The eating of meat without the
blood, which is impossible.
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0348
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|From: Dave Oosterman
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: JIM STAAL
|Date: 04 Mar 96 21:51:00
EID:1376 2064ae60
MSGID: 1:228/45.2 313b6632
REPLY: 1:116/19 04869DE6
-=| On 01 Mar 96 08:06, Al Schroeder said: |=-
AS> YAAAAAYYYYY!!!!
DO>> Good to see you in the first person, unquoted...
AS> It WAS rather like being the Invisible Man...
First you butcher Micheal, then Oosterman(n). My searchie thing missed
this as
a note to me. Shape up!
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: Moot Point (Grandville, MI) (1:228/45.2)
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|From: Dave Oosterman
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: fred
|Date: 04 Mar 96 21:58:01
EID:1800 2064af40
MSGID: 1:228/45.2 313b679e
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 8935438E
-=| On 02 Mar 96 20:40, Michael Hardy said: |=-
DO>> Said what? :P BTW, thanks for the chat.
MH> You're quite welcome. If you like the chat, I can also send you a
MH> dhog. :)
Some type of 'Bama critter? ;)
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: Moot Point (Grandville, MI) (1:228/45.2)
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|From: Dave Oosterman
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: seedy CD
|Date: 04 Mar 96 22:02:02
EID:f3f3 2064b040
MSGID: 1:228/45.2 313b68e1
REPLY: 1:3615/41.11 31384a34
-=| On 02 Mar 96 13:16, David Worrell said: |=-
DW> Hmmm... Roosterwoman uses the same ISP as Asmodoodoo. I leave the
DW> conclusion up to my readers.
DW> :-)
I conclude that David Whore-hell (juvenile, ain't it?) is a moron, and that
whoever it is of which you speak and I live in the same state. What was
your supposition?
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: Moot Point (Grandville, MI) (1:228/45.2)
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|From: Dave Oosterman
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Jim Staal
|Date: 04 Mar 96 22:04:03
EID:2842 2064b080
MSGID: 1:228/45.2 313b6918
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 631cd44c
-=| On 02 Mar 96 14:11, Martin Goldberg said: |=-
MG> My adice to you is just what you gave to Staal.....grow up. I say
MG> this because this post fits most of your previous ones showing the
MG> maturity of a three year old.
Ding, ding, ding! We have a winner!
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: Moot Point (Grandville, MI) (1:228/45.2)
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|From: John Oliver
|To: Steve Wallis
|Sub: fof update, staal
|Date: 05 Mar 96 7:38:00
EID:3f93 20653cc0
MSGID: 1:246/148@fidonet 20874a1b
REPLY: 1:246/15 31351150
PID: QE 2.80 Zeta 1+ & FM 2.12.SW UNREG
SW> Well if you dont belive in the Bible than how can you judge what is
SW> moral or not? What would you base your ethics on? The Bible declares
SW> God's laws and tells us that when we break them-we sin. God established
SW> them, so that we would have a set of moral standards to live by and
that
SW> we would know God and how to live a moral life.
Again Morals and Morality have been around far longer than the Christian
faith, and predates Judaism as well. To argue otherwise is to deny history
which is to deny the truth, which is to be immoral. Since you are so adamant
on being so uprightious, do you eat pork, wear clothes with different fibers,
eat seafood such as shrimp???? If so you sinning according to what you are
saying.
> JO> Aids and venereal disease are not sicknesses, they are as you said,
> JO> disease's. Disease, and the common cold and the rest are afflictions
> JO> that affect all animals on our Earth, they are not the work of some
> JO> demon or a God.
> JO>
SW> Now in the Bible, Jesus cast out demons of infirmities and sickness.
Im
SW> not saying every single disease that happens is from the devil, but
that
SW> the devil is a masquerader. The devils power is in his lie.
Oh what a excuse! The devil's only power over humanity is when "WE" willing
intend and do wrong. We are not forced to do nothing but to decide for ourselves.
I believe in God, but not in one that says do this or else, that's a ultimatum.
God says this is what I want you to do, but the decision is yours to make.
The same with Satan is he really truly exists.
> JO> To claim otherwise, is to state that as a human being we are
> JO> vunerable and responsible for many of the ills that has happened
to
> JO> us throughout time. The bad things we blame Satan or the Devil, when
> JO> good things happen will thank God for giving us strenght for
> JO> overcoming adversity. I am a religious person myself, but I do not
> JO> ascribe to the belief that Satan must exit so that we do good. Many
> JO> of the really evil things that have been committed such as the
> JO> Holocost, was done by God fearing men who believed they were doing
> JO> Gods will. Pretty hard to accept isn't it.
SW> Mankind fell into sin when Eve ate the forbidden fruit. Now, what God
SW> decided to do was rescue man from the clutches of sin. So God had to
SW> establish a Law first. (A code of ethics of how to live and a morally
SW> based Law that was not to be broken). Before we had the Law, no one
had
SW> a standard of living to stand and live by, so since we didnt have one,
SW> God couldnt have rescued us. So, He gave us the Law. But it wasnt
SW> complete yet. Now since we have the Law, and a moral code of conduct,
SW> God sent Christ to die for us to remove sin from us once and for
SW> all(Everthing contrary to the Law was sin). So becuase of Christ's
SW> sacrifice, God has completed His plan to save sinfull nan from the
SW> clutches of the devil. But in order to get the gift that God provided
SW> you have to be willing to recieve it and that means recieving Christ
as
SW> Your saviour and Lord.
Law and ethics are not the same and to presumme that they are is to insult
ethics. There has always been two sides of interpretation when it comes
to religious matters the Lawmakers on one side, the Philosophers on the
other. Now both have good points, but their approach is not exactly the
same. Ethics has nothing to do with religion exclusively and can be applied
to medicine or to the practice of Law (which has no ethics IMO),etc.
Sorry Steve you haven't convinced me of anything except that I'm correct.
---
* Origin: [ Pink Triangle ] Silence = Death /\ (519)-255-7228 (1:246/148)
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|From: God
|To: Brad Jackson
|Sub: Heavenly Father
|Date: 05 Mar 96 10:29:00
EID:33fe 206553a0
MSGID: 1:363/309 56dab520
PID: RA 2.02 8069
> God is a spirit. The creator of all things, and the
> father of
> all humanity by creation.
please dont remind me of my biggest fuckup...
> John 4:24
> God a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship
> in
> spirit and in truth.
the only spirit i want is a bottle of crown royal; got one?
> He is the first and the last, and besides him there is no
> God.
well my next door neighbor allah can be quite a pain in the ass...
> Look to God!
> Brad
well at least let me put a robe on first...
---
* Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)
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|From: Robert Pappas
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Missing Child Alert - Satan
|Date: 05 Mar 96 10:30:00
EID:4523 206553c0
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 632a7332
MSGID: 1:363/309 56dab562
PID: RA 2.02 8069
> /:|'##666##'|:\ Name: Satan
> / __ __ \ Date of Birth: October 23,
> 4004 BC
> : __~\ /~__ : Race: Mytholical
> ( ( .\ \|/ /. ) ) Hair: none
> | \_~_) . (_~_/ | Eyes: red, glowing
> (._ ~ /_\ ~ _.)
> \\_._._._._// Last seen in the company of
> Jesus
> \\V V V V// Christ, a convicted felon from
> \\.^.^.// the middle east. Satan was
> wearing
> (_____) red leotards with a matching
> cape.
> Mr. Christ is reported to have
> been
> "Have you seen me?" wearing a white bathrobe.
roflmfao!!!!
---
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