God Damned Fundies!
|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: RE: AL SCHROEDER
|Date: 08 Mar 96 16:57:29
EID:7dfd 20688720
RE: AL SCHROEDER:
1% J.J. Hitt, 10% Al Schroeder,
40% Sugars, & 49% Inert Materials.
JH> Captain is a rather specific title and not one that can be
JH> self-assumed.
AS> It's really pretty simple.
I know you're dealing with mostly heroes here, but I suddenly
dawned on one General in the group . . . General Zod, who (though a
villan) did have a rank legally, I assumed. Just more trivia.
... Diplomacy is saying 'nice dog' until you can find a rock.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Re: dinosaurs?
|Date: 08 Mar 96 17:01:35
EID:31da 20688820
dinosaurs?:
1% Jim Germiquet, 10% Martin Goldberg,
40% Sugars, & 49% Inert Materials.
AG>> Not even though human and dinosoar footprints are found
AG>> together.
MG>> Please reference ONE instance of this happening. I will
MG>> research it and reply on why it was a fake.
MG>> Do it now and prepare to look foolish.
JG> Dinosaurs weren't allowed in the Garden , and by the time Adam
JG> and Eve had eaten from the forbidden tree, the dinosaurs had
JG> become extinct :-)
MG> You claim that humans and dinsaurs had been found together. I asked
MG> you to reference this. Instead, you come up with this nonsense.
MG> Now, once again, I ask you to reference the "fact" that they were
MG> found together at any time int he Earth's history.
Uhm, Martin . . . AG said the thing about humans and dinosaurs . .
. JG merely butted his big nose in and interrupted your
conversation. }:)
... "He's DEAD, Jim!" -- Dr McCoy "Get his ears." -- Spock
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Norbert Sykes
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Re: US Bans AbortionSpeak on
|Date: 08 Mar 96 17:10:17
EID:3afd 20688940
US Bans AbortionSpeak on:
1% David Worrell, 10% Al Schroeder,
40% Sugars, & 49% Inert Materials.
AS> I agree completely, being one of the few of my generation who can
AS> REMEMBER the sixties. (I don't think my brother's ever come out of
AS> it.)
DW> Hell, my sister wasn't even *born* until 1971, and she still hasn't
DW> come out of the sixties.
AS> It's depressing. Ads use old Beatle songs to hawk their wares, thanks
AS> to Jackson's selling of the rights. John Lennon is probably royally
AS> P.O.ed, wherever he is.
If he's anywhere, he's probably pissed off anyway. You know how he
was about an afterlife of any kind.
DW> If there's one thing I dislike more than an *old* hippy, it's a new
DW> one. :)
AS> I remember ONE person saying "right on!" seriously. Anybody else who
AS> did always giggled afterwards.
I don't mind the right-ons. But I gag when I hear 'groovy' more
than once a decade . . .
... * <- Tribble # <- Tribble Waffle.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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|From: Brian Kolacy
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Flood
|Date: 10 Mar 96 14:40:00
EID:b87c 206a7500
MSGID: 1:272/99 0011a9c2
(On 03-03-96 Michael Hardy replied to Dan Ceppa)
MH> DC> They "*believed* it." A belief does not fucking make it true,
MH> DC> You should know that, as you don't believe in a global flood.
MH> DC> Why don't you BELIEVE in that, as others have and do BELIEVE in
MH> DC> it?
MH> OK, I'll rephrase.
MH> The resurrection of Jesus must have really happened, because people
MH>who lived at the same time and in the same place knew it happened.
MH>And anyone with an IQ over 20 -- which probably leaves you out, I
MH>know -- realizes that people who live at the time and place an event
MH>happens know more about it than people 1,900+ years later thousands
MH>of miles away.
Hmmm...'tis a shame there weren't any historians around to document
this resurrection thing...'tis a shame *no one* was there to witness
it...
Cheers!
Brian C. Kolacy
brian.kolacy@leading.org
http://ny.frontiercomm.net/~mephisto/
... If Michael had half a brain, his ass would be lopsided.
þ CMPQwk 1.42 9044 þ
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|From: Brian Kolacy
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Bible Verses
|Date: 10 Mar 96 14:40:00
EID:4570 206a7500
MSGID: 1:272/99 0011a9ce
(On 03-03-96 Michael Hardy replied to Dan Hunting)
MH> Perhaps you should open your mind a bit. If a "well-reasoned non
MH> believer" can become a Christian, perhaps there's more to it than
MH>you realize.
MH> How about giving him a fair chance to convert you? If there's
MH>nothing to it, then you've nothing to lose. If there turns out to be
MH> more to it than you realized, then you have much to gain.
Have you given the same chance to the Islamic faith? Oh,
sorry...they're obviously not as intelligent as you;)
Cheers!
Brian C. Kolacy
brian.kolacy@leading.org
http://ny.frontiercomm.net/~mephisto/
... The only time I open my mouth is to change feet!! Michael Hardy
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|From: Brian Kolacy
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: Re: children
|Date: 10 Mar 96 14:40:00
EID:c806 206a7500
MSGID: 1:272/99 0011a9d8
(On 03-05-96 Jim Germiquet replied to Brian Kolacy)
J
JG> BK> LOL! Ok, send the old boy over for tea sometime:)
JG>He is with you even now as you are reading this message. God is a
JG>"spirit" you cannot see him or touch him physically,
Can your god exist physically exist?
JG> but if you want
JG>to soften your heart, you will feel him.
Sounds kind of dangerous. How exactly do you soften your heart, anyway?
Hydrochloic acid?
JG>And if you choose to listen,
JG>you will hear him. He IS speaking to you right now. But you don't
JG>have to listen. Your choice.
So your god is totally imaginary...
Cheers!
Brian C. Kolacy
brian.kolacy@leading.org
mephisto@middletown.ny.frontiercomm.net
http://ny.frontiercomm.net/~mephisto/
... Mass starvation: What a beautiful choice.
þ CMPQwk 1.42 9044 þ
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|From: Brian Kolacy
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: apostate
|Date: 10 Mar 96 14:40:00
EID:2632 206a7500
MSGID: 1:272/99 0011a9e4
(On 03-05-96 Jim Germiquet replied to Brian Kolacy)
JG> BK> So, which gods do you not believe in?
[much bunnies and light type stuff deleted]
JG>That is why I do not trot out reams of "references" and bible
JG>commentaries. God is personal to me. I know more have to prove He is
JG>alive than that I am alive. I believe I am therefore I am. I believe
JG>God exists therefore He exists. Period. I just don't pretend that my
JG>mortal being can comprehend in entirety an immortal spirit.
So, do you have any evidence that your god exists outside imagination?
Cheers!
Brian C. Kolacy
brian.kolacy@leading.org
mephisto@middletown.ny.frontiercomm.net
http://ny.frontiercomm.net/~mephisto/
... Pollytheism n.: the belief that God is a parrot.
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|From: Brian Kolacy
|To: Rob Burcham
|Sub: better than
|Date: 10 Mar 96 14:40:00
EID:a18b 206a7500
MSGID: 1:272/99 0011a9fb
(On 03-06-96 Rob Burcham replied to Michael Hardy)
R B> -=> Quoting Michael Hardy to Rob Burcham <=-
RB> RB> BTW, we ARE better than you. The total absence of morality
RB> RB> gives us an edge. :)
RB> MH> I saw a comedian once who sang a song that went like this:
RB> MH> Jim Morrison can't sing better than me
RB> MH> I sing better than him
RB> MH> Jimi Hendrix can't play guitar better than me
RB> MH> I play better than him
RB> MH> John Holmes can't make love better than me
RB> MH> I am better than him
RB> MH> Lincoln's not a better leader than me
RB> MH> I lead better than him
RB> MH> Because they're dead.
Looks like Mikey is finally getting a handle on the present
tense...Music can be so educational sometimes.
Cheers!
Brian C. Kolacy
brian.kolacy@leading.org
mephisto@middletown.ny.frontiercomm.net
http://ny.frontiercomm.net/~mephisto/
... Born again? Nope, I got it right the first time.
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|From: John Passaniti
|To: all
|Sub: Life In Our Anti-Christian America (1/7)
|Date: 11 Mar 96 01:04:03
EID:560a 206b0880
MSGID: 1:2613/102@fidonet 2317af9f
PID: FM 2.12.SW UNREG
(I found the following on the Internet. I didn't write it. I'll provide
a URL to those who want the original version. The next time a Christer
laments that this is an anti-Christian nation, feel free to point out some
of the following.)
-----------------------------------------------------------------
I'm certainly glad this has finally been brought out into
the open. The anti-Christian bias in our society has reached
absurd proportions. Consider:
1. During the 1988 election campaign, George Bush said that
Christians should not be considered patriots or real
American citizens.
2. Bill Clinton steadfastly refuses to give any speeches at
local churches.
3. Both major political parties are dominated by
anti-Christians. The Republican party, for example, gave us
such hard-core atheists as Pat Buchanan, Dan Quayle, Phyllis
Schlafly and Ronald Reagan. And the Democrats have given us
such personalities as the Rev. Martin Luther King and the
Rev. Jesse Jackson-- both noted for their vicious attacks on
all forms of Christianity.
4. Let's talk about the media. On Sunday mornings, nearly all
major television channels broadcast pro-atheist shows; it is
nearly impossible to find religious programming during that
time period. Further, Madalyn Murray O'Hair has her own
cable TV channel, while Pat Robertson has been unable to
obtain one for himself.
5. Most major newspapers run a special weekly section devoted
to atheism. There are no equivalent sections for religious
news.
6. Anti-Christian shows such as the American Atheist Forum
are broadcast by major national networks. Meanwhile, Billy
Graham is only able to get on the air through public access
TV, which is watched by few people.
7. On news programs and "reality" TV shows such as Rescue
911, nobody is ever shown giving thanks to God after
surviving a disaster.
8. It is almost impossible to find a shopping mall with a
Christian Armory book store, while Atheist Book Centers are
featured prominently on every corner.
9. While atheists couples who marry rarely have any
difficulty finding a place to do so, it is nearly impossible
for Christian couples to find a church where they can marry.
10. For that matter, churches themselves are extremely rare,
while atheist meeting centers can be found every few blocks.
11. Recently, several atheists have shot and killed Christian
priests as they were going to work in their churches.
Similarly, atheists are well known for blockading churches
on Sunday mornings.
12. Nearly all of our elected public officials are atheists;
they even have to swear on a copy of Darwin's "Origin of
Species" in order to take office.
13. In a similar vein, jurors must take an oath upon a copy
of the Skeptical Inquirer before they can serve. There have
even been court cases thrown out because one of the jury
members was a Christian who insisted on swearing on a Bible.
14. And of course, people are free to wear pentagram jewelry,
but those trying to wear cross-shaped earrings or pendants
to work will be politely told to remove the jewelry or lose
their job.
15. Speaking of the workplace, Christians often find it
nearly impossible to get time off work for religious
holidays such as Christmas.
16. Even our language reflects the radical anti-Christian
bias that pervades our society. For example, when somebody
sneezes, most people say "Darwin bless you". Similarly,
"Voltaire dammit!" is a common cussword.
17. All of our money has the atheistic slogan "We do not
trust in God" printed on it.
18. In school, our children are made to recite the pledge,
"One nation, anti-God, indivisible...."
19. One cannot rent a hotel room without finding a copy of
Nietzsche's The Anti-Christ in the room.
20. Organizations such as the Boy Scouts deny membership to
Christians.
21. In the military, it is nearly impossible to obtain
Conscientious Objector status for religious reasons, even
though those with philosophical reasons can obtain C.O.
status relatively easily.
22. Christian churches are forced to pay exorbitant taxes.
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: John Passaniti
|To: All
|Sub: Life In Our Anti-Christian America (2/7)
|Date: 11 Mar 96 01:05:04
EID:560a 206b08a0
MSGID: 1:2613/102@fidonet 2317afa0
REPLY: 1:2613/102@fidonet 2317af9f
PID: FM 2.12.SW UNREG
(continued)
23. You can't drive anywhere without seeing a Darwin fish or
a "Jesus Was A Fraud" bumper sticker stuck to a car.
24. Georgia recently passed a new law requiring schools to
have a "moment of noise" during which children are
encouraged to degrade Christianity.
25. College campuses usually have dozens of atheist
organizations, but few if any for Christians.
26. There are several well-known atheist campus preachers who
lecture on college campuses on the virtues of atheism.
27. Also common on college campuses are groups of students
handing out copies of Betrand Russell's "Why I Am Not A
Christian"; some even force people who don't want these
books to take them.
28. Campus newspapers often print editorials extolling the
virtues of atheism.
29. People look at you funny and wonder if there's something
wrong upstairs if you admit to being a Christian in public.
30. Many Christians are afraid to admit their Christianity to
their parents and friends, for fear their kin will consider
them immoral Christian scum and want nothing to do with
them.
31. At presidential inauguration ceremonies, Madalyn
Murray-O'Hair (that well-known friend of several presidents)
gives a short pro-atheism speech.
32. For decades, high school and college commencement
ceremonies have included brief speeches at the beginning and
end of the ceremony in which atheism is praised and
Christians deemed irrational. Christians who object to the
practice, or who ask for an opening prayer instead, are
regarded as cranks at best and subversives at worst.
33. Not only do commencement ceremonies feature pro-atheist
speeches, there's usually an entire two-hour ceremony the
day before graduation dedicated to upholding the atheist
foundation of our educational system.
34. "There are no Christians in foxholes" is a popular slogan
in our society.
35. Most hospitals are full of atheist symbols, and many
prominently feature statues of Nietszche, Darwin, and so
forth.
36. Communities set up atheist brainwashing facilities, and
apply social pressure to citizens to report to these
facilities every Sunday morning. Furthermore, attendees are
expected to contribute money to support these facilities,
and to build others through "outreach" programs.
37. Most parents in America indoctrinate their children at an
early age to be atheists by forcing them to attend these
brainwashing sessions, whether they want to or not.
38. While atheists hold huge rallies in 25,000-seat
amphitheatres, Christians are so few in number that they can
only dream of holding such rallies.
39. At baseball games, you can often spot people carrying
signs that read "Origin Of Species, page 34".
40. Hospital waiting rooms usually come equipped with
children's copies of Stephen Hawking's "A Brief History Of
Time", complete with order forms so that parents can send
off for their own copy.
41. Atheist magazines such as "Atheism Today", "Today's
Atheist Woman", "Atheist Homeschooler", "The Atheist
Century", "Atheist Ministry", "The Atheist Archeological
Review", "Atheist Parenting Today" and "The Atheist Science
Monitor" are featured prominently in newsstands across the
country.
42. The Fellowship of Atheist Athletes has local chapters on
college campuses throughout America.
43. According to recent Gallup polls, approximately 86% of
Americans do not believe in God.
44. Politicians often refer to America's "Agnosto-Atheist
heritage" when trying to woo voters.
45. Atheists are beginning to subvert the American political
process. For example, the American Atheists recently
published over thirty million voter's guides for
distribution at atheist meeting-houses. These guides gave
specific instructions note to vote for those who oppose
atheist values.
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: John Passaniti
|To: All
|Sub: Life In Our Anti-Christian America (3/7)
|Date: 11 Mar 96 01:06:05
EID:560a 206b08c0
MSGID: 1:2613/102@fidonet 2317afa1
REPLY: 1:2613/102@fidonet 2317afa0
PID: FM 2.12.SW UNREG
(continued)
46. It's easy to buy checks with quotes from Thomas Paine,
but almost impossible to buy checks with Bible verses on
them.
47. Businesses often refuse to admit that they are Christian
owned and operated, for fear of being boycotted by their
atheist customers. Meanwhile, atheist-owned businesses often
feature Darwin-fish logos in their ads.
48. There are large networks of atheistic private schools in
America, while it's nearly impossible to find a private
Catholic school.
49. It's difficult to find people with good Christian names
like John or Paul or Christopher.
50. Most gravestones in America are engraved with pentagrams;
those few graves which are engraved with crosses usually end
up being vandalized.
51. Atheists have often invented "deathbed deconversion"
stories about famous Christians, claiming they became
atheists just before they died.
52. Around the time of Darwin's birthday, Christians have to
put up with songs about Darwin, which are played in shopping
malls, restaurants, and even public restrooms.
53. We number our calendar years according to the number of
years that have passed since Darwin's brithday. (Hence the
term "A.D"-- "After Darwin".)
54. Christian gatherings and funerals are often disrupted by
atheists shouting slurs and holding signs that read, "Nature
hates Christians."
55. Books which promote Christianity are often removed from
library shelves in response to atheist pressure groups.
56. A popular bumper sticker reads, "No Jesus, Know Peace.
Know Jesus, No Peace."
57. Insurance companies refer to natural disasters as "Acts
of Darwin".
58. Forms for job applications, government aid and so forth
often ask what type of atheist you are, with checkboxes for
"atheist", "agnostic", "humanist" and so forth. If you are a
Christian, the only thing you can do is check the "other"
box-- if one is provided.
59. Sports teams often read from the Humanist Manifesto prior
to the game, in the hopes that doing so will increase their
chances of winning.
60. Atheists constantly threaten television and movies
producers with boycotts whenever they portray Christianity
in a positive light.
61. Atheists often hold bonfires at atheist meeting centers,
where Christian literature can be thrown into the fire.
62. Gambling is freely legalized for secular purposes, yet
churches have to have their bingo halls in Las Vegas,
Atlantic City or on Indian reservations.
63. Baseball games and the like have "The Star-Spangled
Banner" sung by hard-rock groups bellowing out lyrics such
as, "Foolish god-crazed slaves (whip crack)/At the altar of
Rock and Roll you'll kneel!" and the singers will encourage
any Christians in the stands to get eaten by lions held
ready on the playing field.
64. New military officers are expected to say "God does not
exist" at the end of their commissioning oath.
65. It easy to support atheistic charities like, "Atheist
Children's Fund", "Agnostics Against AIDS", etc., but
virtually impossible to support important causes through
*Christian* organizations.
66. Well-known atheists like Michael Martin and Quentin Smith
have set up ministries to witness to Christians, but it is
virtually impossible to find Christians who specialize in
debating atheists.
67. Congress starts each session with selected excerpts from
Michael Martin's Atheism: A Philosophical Justification.
Each house of Congress also has its own "Atheist Chaplain".
No Christian prayers are ever made in Congress and no
Christian chaplains are available.
68. The word "Christian" is recognized as a term which
represents the worst of human attributes: cynicism,
pessimism, selfishness, and moral turpitude. The word
"Atheist," on the other hand, is used to signify all that is
virtuous, as in, "That's mighty Atheist of you!"
69. On sitcoms and movies of the week, the parents make
references to how their lack of faith in God helps them get
through life's troubles. Meanwhile, Christians are protrayed
as pathetic folks who end up converting to atheism.
70. Many American cities are named after noted atheist
figures; for example, there is Corpus Darwini, Texas and San
Voltaire, California.
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: John Passaniti
|To: All
|Sub: Life In Our Anti-Christian America (4/7)
|Date: 11 Mar 96 01:07:06
EID:560a 206b08e0
MSGID: 1:2613/102@fidonet 2317afa2
REPLY: 1:2613/102@fidonet 2317afa1
PID: FM 2.12.SW UNREG
(continued)
71. Historically, most private colleges and universities in
the US were founded by atheists; while some have become
religious over the years, many of them retain close ties
with atheist organizations, and some of them still use
hiring practices that exclude Christians from their faculty
and staff. (And this discrimination against Christians is
permitted and protected by law!)
72. Atheists who convert to christianity are often told by
their parents "It's just a rebellious phase. Once you move
through this stage of life you'll realize that you never
really believed in God." Similarly, people who are raised as
Christians are condesended to, and told that if they would
give atheism a chance, it would fill the empty hole that
Chistianity must be leaving in their lives.
73. When celebrities or musicians accept awards during one of
the many awards programs, they often end their list of
"thank-yous" with a humble acknowledgment to Darwin for
their "evolution-given talents".
74. During the 1996 election campaign, Pat Buchanan declared
that creationism should not be taught in public schools. "We
need a president who will commit himself to restoring
secular humanist values and driving out the false god of the
Christians," he said.
75. Atheists regularly go door-to-door on Sunday mornings
asking people not to go to church with them.
76. Atheist cults are masters at luring lonely, young,
disenfranchised people into their rational cults to
brainwash them with reason so that they will give their
lives and all worldly possessions to the Atheist leaders.
77. Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, and other Christian groups
are banned (by Atheist-initiated zoning laws) from passing
out literature from door to door.
78. People who don't decorate their homes with images of the
sun during the Winter Solstice season, are assumed to be
irrational Christians in need of rational therapy and
conversion.
79. Even Atheist businesses hate the Winter Solstice season
because people are encouraged to be rational and reasonable,
thus encouraging our population to avoid senseless spending
and debt and needless possession of material goods.
80. In general, Christians are considered to be
less-than-honest. If you are a Christian, you must have no
reason or rational judgment; therefore, you cannot be
trusted to tell the truth.
81. Prisoners have become wise to the fact that they may
receive early paroles if they claim to have found Atheism
and been saved by Darwin. Such a conversion to rationality
is thought to be a favorable sign of the rejection of a life
of crime.
82. Humanist hate group members shave their heads and run
around painting red H's on the doors of churches to
intimidate Christians.
83. The Humanist Left and the Immoral Majority influence
voting patterns in the Humanist Manifesto Belt states.
84. The government declared an official holiday in November
to give thanks to fellow humans for the hard work and labor
of our agricultural workers who provide the plentiful food
resources we have in the U.S.
85. Atheist leaders of many sects bring in millions of
dollars each week from TV and telephone solicitation and
weekly meeting collections, enough to support at least one
Atheist meeting hall in nearly every community in the
country, while Christian groups barely have enough money to
support a half-dozen national groups.
86. Most people assume everyone else is an Atheist and are
unbelievers as they are. It makes for uncomfortable social
situations for Christians and other religious types.
87. When one looks up "religion" or Christianity" in books of
collected quotations, 99% of the quotes chosen for
publication are negative while atheist or agnostic topics
are filled with positive quotations.
88. Bookstores have entire sections filled with Atheist
literature while "spiritual" and 'religious" books are
almost impossible to find, except through specialized
distributors.
89. Despite the overwhelming number of Atheists in the
general population and in powerful legislative positions,
when they don't get their own way, Atheists whine that this
is an anti-Atheistic country.
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: John Passaniti
|To: All
|Sub: Life In Our Anti-Christian America (5/7)
|Date: 11 Mar 96 01:08:07
EID:560a 206b0900
MSGID: 1:2613/102@fidonet 2317afa3
REPLY: 1:2613/102@fidonet 2317afa2
PID: FM 2.12.SW UNREG
(continued)
90. Atheists constantly cite, out of context, books of
philosophy by noted Atheists to prove that Christians live
irrational lives.
91. Atheists do everything possible to get laws passed that
will prevent irrational Christians from making their own
choices in matters of sex, procreation, life-styles, family
units, etc.
92. Until recently, Atheists had passed laws (known as Green
Laws) that require all businesses to stay open on Sundays,
preventing Christians who wished to practice their religious
beliefs to work, just like everyone else.
93. Sci-fi movies almost always make rational scientific
types into "good guys" while emotional, irrational people
become the "heavies".
94. Movies that featured myths of silly miracles (like the
parting of the Red Sea or the Resurrection of Jesus or other
Biblical tales) never made any money. Most big movie studios
rejected all proposals to make such ridiculous stories into
films. However, "The Humanist Manifesto", 1956, was one of
Cecil B. DeMille's blockbusters.
95. In small towns and communities all over the U.S. Atheist
horns awake Christians at midnight on Saturdays preventing
them from getting a good night's sleep before their Sabbath.
Fortunately for much of the population, few church bells
wake Atheists who want to sleep in on Sundays.
96. At every banquet, no matter the occasion, an Atheist
propagandist gets up and thanks Madalyn Murray O'Hair for
her wisdom and insight in educating us rational beings so
that we can provide the food that we are about to eat. The
presence of non-Atheists is not even acknowledged. No
consideration is given to those who might find such a
practice offensive.
97. Schools across the country force students to sing songs
such as "Jesus Is Not the Son of God" during the Winter
Solstice season. They rationalize this infringement on
minority rights of religious freedom by claiming the songs
are part of our collective culture.
98. During the Solstice season, Atheist Army members in
uniforms block entrances to stores ringing annoying bells
and requesting donations to save non-Atheists from their
pathetic irrational lives.
99. Atheist Army (and other Freethought) soup kitchens force
homeless Christians to listen to Atheist propaganda before
serving them a meal.
100. Hundreds of self-help groups replace codependence with
the 12 Steps of A.B.A. (Atheist Brainwashing Anonymous),
convincing people they don't have the power to help
themselves but must rely on the power of Darwin to overcome
addiction.
101. U.S. Atheist organizations send missionaries to
underdeveloped countries to convince people to renounce
long-held local religious beliefs and become Atheists.
102. On Solstice Eve, there is nothing to watch on TV except
Atheist rituals from Stonehenge.
103. During the Solstice Season, nearly every network airs
reruns (ad nauseum) of "It's A Rational Life", "Reason on
34th Street", "A Solstice Story", "The Stupidest Story Ever
Told", and other Atheist favorites. Christian programming
cannot be found.
104. Christian employees have to use personal days or sick
leave to stay at home to celebrate their holidays while
everyone gets the day off for Winter Solstice and the
birthdays of Charles Darwin and Madalyn Murray O'Hair. All
major Atheist celebrations have been declared National
Holidays with all government offices remaining closed on
those days.
105. All Rational People's Day, the 1st of November, is a
holiday at Atheist private schools. It's a day to celebrate
Voltaire, Edison, Russell, Asimov, O'Hair, and other Atheist
leaders and philosphers for their rational and logical
thoughts.
106. Ronald Reagan denounced the Vatican as the "Heavenly
Empire" because of its official status as a theocracy.
107. When someone is pathetic enough to admit to being a
Christian, friends respond by saying things like, "No you're
not. You just think you are."
108. Images of Lazarus Long, a fictional character in Robert
Heinlein books, are frequently pretended to be seen by
Atheists in paint stains, in the spots of cows, in tree
bark, etc., causing large groups of people to make
pilgrimages to those locations to confirm their lack of
belief in the supernatural. These stories are given national
news coverage to promote the status quo.
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: John Passaniti
|To: All
|Sub: Life In Our Anti-Christian America (6/7)
|Date: 11 Mar 96 01:09:08
EID:560a 206b0920
MSGID: 1:2613/102@fidonet 2317afa4
REPLY: 1:2613/102@fidonet 2317afa3
PID: FM 2.12.SW UNREG
(continued)
109. Christians are unfairly scrutinized for wearing t-shirts
that say things such as "God's Gym" or "Resurrection Day",
whereas atheists can proudly and without any protest wear
their "Reasons Beer is Better than Jesus" or Darwin fish
t-shirts.
110. Christians are constantly questioned as to where their
morals come from. People always wonder why they have a
reason to live, if god is the only thing they live for.
Atheists, on the other hand, are praised for their high
moral standards, and it is acknowledged that they don't need
a reason to live--just "being" is enough.
111. Professors are encouraged to tell the class that they
are atheists during the first class period of the semester,
since this conveys to the students that they sincerely care
about their progress in the class, and about the student as
a person. Christian professors would get ostracized for
doing this; students would complain and the professor would
be told to keep his beliefs to himself.
112. Atheists offen try to scare Christians into disbelief by
yelling that after they die they will be sent to the earth's
firey core and tormented by Nietzsche for eternity.
113. Each year, the U.S. Post Office is nearly brought to its
knees as both devout and "cultural" Atheists celebrate
Lucretius' birth by sending each other anti-religious cards
and illuminated copies of De Rerum Natura.
114. Atheists from Salt Lake City collect lists of dead
people, so that they can be baptised posthumously as
Atheists.
115. Atheists take sick people to doctors so that they can be
'cured', instead of sitting them in front of TV healing
shows. Many of these so-called 'doctors' have no ministerial
qualifications!.
116. Atheists have a superstitious dread of the number 13,
because Darwin once invited 12 of his friends to supper. In
fact, Atheists have such a strong superstition about certain
numbers that road signs and house numbers and company logos
have to be changed to avoid upsetting them.
117. NBC has shows that promote reason and skepticism in the
face of Biblical prophecy or lone pseudoscientists while
shows that promote irrational beliefs are on PBS and never
reach as many people.
118. Noted atheists own "The Family Channel" and show
programming that they find appropriate for other atheists.
119. The shows "Ignored by an Angel" and "Ultimately Illusory
Highway to Heaven" are getting more and more viewers every
week.
120. Each year, the President lights the National Solstice
Tree.
121. There is an entire genre of music known as "Contemporary
Atheist Music." The notion of "Christian music" is unheard
of.
122. Most radio markets have at least one Atheist radio
station. There are no Christian radio stations anywhere.
123. Judges justify abortion based on evolutionary theory and
Nietzche, instead of the Bible.
124. Judges often give long speeches on atheistic morality
and use them as a basis for strange or lenient sentences.
125. All prisons have a resident atheist philosopher, and
inmates are encouraged to participate in weekly philophical
dicussions on Bible Contradictions. This is often reported
to parole board, who consider it a good indication of
contritenes on the prisoner's part.
126. Atheists tend to call homosexuals, lesbians, and
bisexuals criminals against nature while Christians accept
them the way God made them. Moreover, while a few "liberal"
atheist organizations do not make heterosexuality a
requirement for membership, most atheist organizations
strictly condemn such behavior and have used their massive
political influence to criminalize same-sex marriages.
127. School children who profess their Christianity are
routinely held up to ridicule and harrassment by the
students and teachers who make up the atheist majority in
both public and private schools.
128. Relatively inoffensive movies, which might otherwise be
rated G or PG, are likely to be rated PG-13 or R if they
contain excessive religious content.
129. According to comedian George Carlin, the "seven holy
words" that cannot be broadcast on television are "God,"
"Jesus," "Christ," "bless," "heaven," "salvation," and
"soul."
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: John Passaniti
|To: All
|Sub: Life In Our Anti-Christian America (7/7)
|Date: 11 Mar 96 01:10:09
EID:560a 206b0940
MSGID: 1:2613/102@fidonet 2317afa5
REPLY: 1:2613/102@fidonet 2317afa4
PID: FM 2.12.SW UNREG
(continued)
130. Congress has recently passed legislation requiring
television manufacturers to install a so-called "H-chip,"
which enables viewers to automatically censor out any
program containing excessive holiness.
131. Another bill recently signed by President Clinton
includes the notorious "Communications Indecency Act," which
will severely restrict the free speech rights of persons
wishing to use Christian or other religious language or
images on Usenet, Web pages, or even local bulletin boards.
132. A political candidate who declares himself a Christian
will have far less chance of winning an election than one
who flaunts his atheism.
133. Former president Franklin Roosevelt always reminded his
speach writers to put "some of that anti-god stuff"in his
speeches."
134. Because many forms of Christianity oppose homosexuality,
the Atheist Left has installed rules allowing members of the
armed services to lose their jobs simply because they have
admitted to being heterosexuals. And, of course,
heterosexual marriages are completely prohibited.
135. Every year in November, the President issues a
proclamation for a national day of Thanksgiving, calling on
Americans to spend the day thanking their parents for
creating them and for all that they have done for them. No
mention is ever made of the role of God in creating people,
helping them acheive happiness, or keeping the country
secure. (The proclamation is usually issued a few weeks
before the ceremonial planting of the White House Solstice
Tree.)
136. Similarly, after a major disaster the President usually
calls for an official day of action; never is prayer
suggested.
137. The President usually ends every speech with the words,
"Let's all help America, since there is no God to do things
for us."
138. Whenever an atheist commits a crime, invariably people
will argue that this is not a sign that teaching atheism
might not guarantee a better society, because anyone who
would act that way "isn't a true atheist. "
This list only scratches the surface. It is high time that
God-fearing Christians rose up and spoke out against the
horrendous anti-Christian bias that has taken hold in
America.
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: Christian? God demands you kill me. Write for details! (1:2613/102)
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: REDACTED STORIES [1]
|Date: 10 Mar 96 09:47:25
EID:7fcd 206a4de0
MSGID: 1:207/212 4526edd5
REPLY: 1:271/460 3141939f
On (09 Mar 96) Kenneth Mcabee wrote to Karen Davis...
KM> Noone will obey all the laws, why? Because being saved does not keep
KM> one from sinning, and disobey laws is sin.
Then how am I supposed to do what you expect me to, and remove those
that are in prison for crimes both by secular and by their religious law
from the status of "Christian"?
KM> AFAIK? Is there anyplace in the Bible that says we will not sin after
KM> we are saved?
Then how am I supposed to know a Christian except by what they say they
are?
And if it doesn't keep you from sinning any more than us non believers,
how is it valid?
KM> OK, so if someone goes to jail, they are allowed to go anywhere, but
KM> back into their home... I'm sure all those in prison will be glad to
KM> hear that. Guess we better contact the people that make dictionaries
KM> so they can change the meaning of the words jail and prison. While we
KM> are at it, we had better contact those that run the prisons and jails
KM> as well, they are holding people that they should not be holding. All
KM> they have to do is, keep the people away from their home. Of course
if
KM> they are living in jail, doesn't that become their home?
And this jail, the earth, has become *our* home.
KM> Who hates women? We (men) could not survive without them.
Yet we can't walk the streets at night for fear of men raping us.
... Righteous Gump.....You've Lost That Box of Chocolates
--- PPoint 1.98
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Kenneth Mcabee
|Sub: Hello!
|Date: 10 Mar 96 09:50:40
EID:c514 206a4e40
MSGID: 1:207/212 b4b9c98b
REPLY: 1:271/460 3141965f
On (09 Mar 96) Kenneth Mcabee wrote to Karen Davis...
KM> I don't HAVE to accept anything. I believe the Bible, if it turns out
KM> that it is not real, I will never know it. I don't and cannot accept
KM> that there is any God except the God that is in the Bible. If he's not
KM> real, there is no others.
You're not getting my point. There remain many other LOGICAL
possibilities.
KM> KM>> I don't think we will notice.
KD> Right.
KM> What? Agreeing with Pascal's Wager?
No, simply agreeing that if there is no god or afterlife of any kind, we
are not likely to have any awareness after death.
HOWEVER, there are many proposed supreme beings and afterlives. So many
that yours is not the statistical best bet.
KD> Look at it this way - if a Muslim stopped believing, your god is still
KD> a logical option, right?
KM> I have seen Muslim turn from the Koran and start believing in the
KM> Bible. To me, they are believing in a false religion, God is the ONLY
KM> option, which makes him the logical one as well.
You're being stubborn. I'm not trying to get you to admit they're right,
I'm trying to get you to admit that they are LOGICAL POSSIBILITIES. YOU
BELIEVE that Islam is a false religion. I will agree that your faith
does indeed teach that. Yet from where I stand, it is no more or less
likely to be true than yours. I'm equally unlikely ever to adhere to
either faith, as both oppress women.
Take one step back from the Bible and open your mind. Your Bible might
only leave 2 options - false/true God/no God, but TRUE logic indicates
that there are many more.
KD> Fine. But consider the THOUGHT EXPERIMENT that the primary assertions
of
KD> the Bible are wrong.
KM> It's not wrong, and I will not entertain the thought.
That's the problem here. Now I can understand why the great advances in
science and thought were made by people who could at least take a step
back from the Bible. You can't even engage in a thought experiment.
KM> Only one possibility, you lied to me.
Actually, no, the other possiblity is that I was mistaken - perhaps I
was tripping out on Benadryl because I had a cold. Perhaps I had already
received my phone call for the next day's assignment and confused the
two. Perhaps the way you received the information was fallible.
But just assuming that you had reason to believe all or part of the
statement I made about my teaching assignment that day was untrue,
doesn't it open up all those possibilities I indicated as being the
FACTS? Sure, the statement is untrue. But if you want to get at the
FACTS, then all the options I indicated are possible.
OK... let's take this away from the possibliity of LYING. Let's say that
at 8:30 in the morning, my husband wakes up to find me already gone. He
gets a call that he needs to find me. On the computer desk is a paper
saying "Grand Terrace, 3rd grade." HE NEEDS TO FIND ME.
He goes to the office and finds out that the third grade teacher I had
been sent there for came in anyway, but they needed me in another grade.
OR
A call to the sub desk finds that Grand Terrace was my assignment for
TOMORROW and that I'm at ______ school that day [any grade]
OR that I didn't have an assignment that day, Gary goes home and finds
me home eating the doughnuts I had gone out to buy.
KM> Those may be your options, not mine. I don't see any options other
KM> than the God that is described in the Bible, if he does not exist, I
KM> do not believe there is a god at all.
This is YOUR opinion. I'm stating logical permutations.
KD> What you're doing is saying you trust me so much that you believe I
KD> taught 3rd grade at Grand Terrace just because I say so.
KM> No, I didn't say that. Trust in a human is different than trust in
KM> God.
At least you have some way to verify the accuracy of my statements, and
you can verify that I exist.
KM> Remember the only option I listed for your untruth? If I found out you
KM> were lying then you are a lair, that's the only option I would worry
KM> about.
Yet if you needed to act on where I was teaching, and were willing to
entertain the idea that I was mistaken and not intentionally lying....
KM> You can engage yourself in your thought experiment, I will not
KM> participate. My options are clear, if God as described in the Bible
KM> does not exist, then there is no kind of God at all.
You really think God would want you to think that way? He wouldn't want
you to entertain the possibility that there was some miscommunication
and that fallible men wrote things wrong? Why then did he have to send
someone else to repeat his message?
KM> With all that I have seen and experienced, there is no logical option
KM> other than the God that is in the Bible. Logically from my stand
KM> point, if he does not exist, then there is no god.
And I have seen no evidence which makes your god more likely than the
supereme being[s] of any other faith.
KM> Believers are not skeptical of the Bible, maybe that's what the
KM> non-believers forget.
Maybe they should be? Or maybe they should open up their minds enough to
thought experiments like this so they can understand us non believers
better?
... Like a tagline [hey!] Stolen for the very first time
--- PPoint 1.98
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Becke Jones
|Sub: REDACTED STORIES
|Date: 10 Mar 96 10:44:16
EID:128c 206a5580
MSGID: 1:207/212 72d25322
On (08 Mar 96) Becke Jones wrote to Kenneth McAbee...
BJ> You should've been able to figure that one out by the context in which
BJ> it was used... Mysogyny is "hating women". Ask Staahl for
BJ> enlightenment, that's his area of expertise...
I hate to admit it, but a quick check of the dictionary indicates that I
put too many y's in there. It's Misogyny. That's what I get for
messaging at 6AM.
... Tetris tagline: ÛÛ ÜÛÜ ÜÜÜÜ ÜÛß ÛÜÜ ßÛÜ ÜÜÛ
--- PPoint 1.98
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Annette Spence
|Sub: Hello!
|Date: 10 Mar 96 10:01:04
EID:2784 206a5020
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 5f068115
On (08 Mar 96) Annette Spence wrote to Karen Davis...
KD> What you're doing is saying you trust me so much that you believe I
KD> taught 3rd grade at Grand Terrace just because I say so. That's fine,
KD> though gullible because there *is* an intentional untruth in that
KD> statement. but if you're engaging in a thought experiment, you have
to
KD> open up to all the other logical options. I think that's where many
KD> believers lose sight of the religious skeptics.
AS> I would recommend Josh Mcdowell as a good christian perspective on
AS> this kind of logic argument...he does it himself in one of his
AS> books.... Of course I may be posting
AS> this to the wrong person in the argument, but I just wanted to point
AS> out that there ARE christians who try to prove their point using YOUR
AS> argument style.
McDowell's "argument style" has been torn to shreds many times
in this forum. He's an idiot, without a modicum of understanding
regarding the meaning of the term "fallacy."
... Politically Correct: Euphemism for censorship
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/40.666)
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Sally Springett
|Sub: GAY LOVE
|Date: 10 Mar 96 10:06:12
EID:270f 206a50c0
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 88c0f1ff
REPLY: 1:2613/313@ 70e40e2b
On (08 Mar 96) Sally Springett wrote to Marilyn Burge...
MB> The "need" for myth would have been even greater among ancient
MB> peoples who had so many more unanswerable questions than we
MB> do. It is clear that myths did not arise out of some basic
MB> need for religion, but rather religion arose out of some basic
MB> need for myth.
SS> I would say that both arose from a deep need for "answers." We
SS> humans really hate it when we don't know the whys and wherefores and
SS> there are always people who are more than happy to make something up
SS> and then become the "person who knows the answer." If they can make
SS> a buck from becoming a self-styled "expert," all the better.
And it all could have been prevented soooo easily, if only people
had learned to say "I don't know. Let's find out."
... Is a clairvoyant midget jailbreaker a small medium at large?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: So What's Yer Point? (1:105/40.666)
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|From: Mark Staal
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Re: JIM STAAL
|Date: 10 Mar 96 18:49:06
EID:a647 206a9620
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31432fd9
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-
JB> Doesn't matter if they do. I've never been one to do things predicated
JB> on 'what will the neighbors think'. Whatever I think of you, your
JB> brother or all the alternate personalities...losing someone you love
JB> hurts. It's not a time to try to score points.
JB> I will wait until you start spouting shit again and hit you for what
JB> you say and how you say it. This is just a break in the normal routine
JB> where I can share what you feel. I know how I felt when my mother died.
JB> You must be feeling the same.
....It's been guite an adjustment for my mother also, I think I'm more
worried for her than myself grieving for my father....They were very
close as is the rest of my family to each other....But, my mother will
have to cope with being alone for the first time in 55 years and living
for herself once again.
... Catch the Blue Wave!
* Origin: WareHouse BBS (Node 2) Wyoming MI (616)538-5413 (1:228/45)
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|From: Mark staal
|To: Steve Rose
|Sub: Re: Jim Staal
|Date: 10 Mar 96 18:51:01
EID:b17a 206a9660
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31432fda
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-
MS> people in Smoke can't handle a nickname of LUMP....Gets too
MS> confusing for some, and they keep getting it mixed up
MS> Oh yeah, They look the same....JIM....LUMP....
SR> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAA!!!! YOU said it, Lumpy flea! :D
.....Sorry, Don't quite understand that one.....Don't care to
either.
... Catch the Blue Wave!
* Origin: WareHouse BBS (Node 2) Wyoming MI (616)538-5413 (1:228/45)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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|From: Mark Staal
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Re: Jim Staal
|Date: 10 Mar 96 18:52:38
EID:a87b 206a9680
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31432fdb
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-
MS> ...I'm not really sure about that....but, either way, I don't
MS> liked to be compared or referred to as anyone,but myself.
DC> Anything you say, Jimbo.
..... REALLY?...Gee, thanx!
... Catch the Blue Wave!
* Origin: WareHouse BBS (Node 2) Wyoming MI (616)538-5413 (1:228/45)
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|From: Mark Staal
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Re: Jim Staal
|Date: 10 Mar 96 19:30:21
EID:a647 206a9bc0
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31432fdc
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-
MS> Hmmmm, I'm not quite sure, but, I think 19 grandchildren and 12
MS> great grandchildren with one more on the way.
JB>
JB> It'll probably take 3 column inches when my grandfather dies. He had
2
JB> children (my mother is deceased), has 9 grandchildren, 22
JB> great-grandchildren, and 10 great-great-grandchildren.
Wow, he was really blessed with the love and attention of many
family members also.That's great!
... Catch the Blue Wave!
* Origin: WareHouse BBS (Node 2) Wyoming MI (616)538-5413 (1:228/45)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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|From: Mark Staal
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Re: Jim Staal
|Date: 10 Mar 96 19:32:19
EID:d5c2 206a9c00
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31432fdd
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Mark Staal <=-
AS> @MSGID: 1:116/19 0313CB32
AS> How many grandchildren and great-grandchildren did he have?
MS> Hmmmm, I'm not quite sure, but, I think 19 grandchildren and 12
MS> great grandchildren with one more on the way.
AS> Big brood. I'm sure he is missed by all.
..."Brood" is right, We all act like brothers and sisters right
down to the fighting and bickering, but we do it in love....Not out of
hatred or deceit.
... Catch the Blue Wave!
* Origin: WareHouse BBS (Node 2) Wyoming MI (616)538-5413 (1:228/45)
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|From: Mark Staal
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Re: jim staal
|Date: 10 Mar 96 19:34:21
EID:0cfe 206a9c40
MSGID: 1:228/45.0 31432fde
PID: BWRA 3.20 [Reg]
TID: GE/32 1.2
-
MS> JB> I know it is late and I hope you will understand. My condolences
MS> JB> to you and your family. It is never easy to lose someone you
MS> JB> love.
MS> Thank you very much, It is very much appreciated.
MS> Hopefully no one will take this in the wrong way and ridicule
MS> you also for showing any sympathy in this matter.
KDM> I doubt it. We may be assholes, but we aren't cruel.
....Well, I never said you guys were that and don't think so
either...as for being cruel I know of only one or two and that's George
and the rice brothers.
... Catch the Blue Wave!
* Origin: WareHouse BBS (Node 2) Wyoming MI (616)538-5413 (1:228/45)
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: Baha'i
|Date: 09 Mar 96 19:08:46
EID:b559 20699900
MSGID: 1:207/212 a37aeff4
REPLY: 1:222/10@Fidonet 13c40511
On (04 Mar 96) Rick Mcfarlane wrote to Karen Davis...
RM> I think you have mis-stated Michael's assumption. I don't think that
RM> he assumes (as you say) that dying for one's religion within a few
RM> decades of it's emergence is evidence of it's truth. I think he would
RM> say that it _is_ evidence that the martyrs involved are sincerely
RM> convinced of its truth. I think you just might agree with that, and
I
RM> think that's what the Baha'i martyrs also demonstrate.
I agree it is evidence that there was some pretty strong conviction.
There are other variables possible, of course. The women killed as
witches back in the 17th century were not witches, of course. There was
nothing TO recant, for them.
It is also evidence for the horrible fact that religion is divisive.
Even a faith which is apparently as non offensive as the Baha'i has led
to peoples' death. By the hands of Muslims and Christians, as far as I
know.
RM> Based on the above, it appears safe to conclude that several people
RM> who claimed to have witnessed the resurection were convinced of it's
RM> truth. (You'd probably agree with that too).
Well I'm not sure, because the Baha'i martyrships are documented, but
not the earliest legendary Christian martyrships. All we have is the
same document as makes the rest of the claims - no independent
verification.
Further, even in the legends nobody had control of the body for long
enough to satisfy a court of law. They simply saw him on the cross and
then a few days later. How is that evidence of anything? Hypothetical: A
friend of mine and I were in a horrible automobile accident. Last I saw
him he was laying on the ground bleeding. Next I saw him he was up and
walking around....
Let's take it to a more personal level here. I have a friend who claims
to have a variety of psychic powers. Among the things his claimed powers
have led him to predict was the date I would meet the man who eventually
became my husband. Is the fact that we both believe to slightly
different degrees that he happened to predict correctly evidence that he
has those powers?
RM> Michael and Al would go farther and say that, since these people were
RM> in a position to KNOW if the resurection were faked, and they were
RM> convinced of its truth, therefore it actually happened. I doubt that
RM> you'd be
RM> willing to take this last step, but the case of the Baha'i martyrs
RM> doesn't bear on it at all.
They WEREN'T in a position to KNOW. That's the problem.
KD> Unless, of course, you're willing to admit that the Mormons are right
KD> or the Baha'i are right.
RM> Michael has never told me I'm wrong. Not yet at least .
Michael very rarely says such crass things outright. Nor am I saying it.
In fact, having read the entire text file I quoted only a portion of
[someone posted it on Intelec] I'd be very comfortable with more Baha'i
around.
... Forrest Fudd: Wife is wike a box of chocowates.
--- PPoint 1.98
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Annette Spence
|Sub: Hello!
|Date: 09 Mar 96 19:25:11
EID:1f9f 20699b20
MSGID: 1:207/212 68c4337a
On (08 Mar 96) Annette Spence wrote to Karen Davis...
AS> I would recommend Josh Mcdowell as a good christian perspective on
AS> this kind of logic argument...he does it himself in one of his
AS> books.... Of course I may be posting
AS> this to the wrong person in the argument, but I just wanted to point
AS> out that there ARE christians who try to prove their point using YOUR
AS> argument style.
I'm trying to understand you here - I see Christians as very black/white
logicians - either THEIR god exists or none does, Pascal's wager, etc.
... Women who seek to be equal with men lack ambition.
--- PPoint 1.98
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: OR MAYBE JUST SUGAR
|Date: 10 Mar 96 07:52:54
EID:1ecb 206a3e80
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 043a8c87
On (07 Mar 96) Judith Bandsma wrote to Jim Germiquet...
-=> Quoting Jim Germiquet to Michael Hardy <=-
JG> GREAT MESSAGE and worth quoting for people to read again :-)
JB> Then you're going to have to read my answer to it ... AGAIN!
JB> When you start pushing for legislation to deny the civil
JB> rights of those you 'disapprove' of, it is hate. I disapprove
JB> of people who allow their dogs to run loose, but I'm not
JB> going to lobby for legislation that would, in effect, strip
JB> them of their citizenship.
JB> And that's what the legislation in Colorado, and proposed in
JB> Oregon, would do. When any one group is singled out like
JB> that, and it is allowed to stand, we are ALL in danger of
JB> losing rights that people have fought and died for.
JB> Who knows...YOU could be next.
You might be interested to know that Lon Mabon is in deep doo-doo
in this State of late. It seems that conservative political
candidates are running from him in droves, loudly screaming that
they don't want the OCA's endorsement of their candidacy. They
finally figured out that it is a negative, rather than a positive
element in their campaign, and greatly skews their chances of
winning an election in favor of their opponent.
Also, several of Lonnie's top lieutenants have fled the OCA and
written guest editorials declaiming it. One carried a headline
that said "OCA VALUES NEITHER REPUBLICAN NOR CHRISTIAN." Shortly
thereafter, Lonnie was quoted in an item as saying (and I
paraphrase) we're behind in signature collection; the people of
the State of Oregon have decided they are opposed to paid
petitioners, but, come the deadline, we'll have the necessary
signatures to get our latest proposed amendment on the ballot.
Yeaaaah. Riiiiiiight!
Lonnie is, in this State at least, whistling past the graveyard.
Too bad the movement he spawned isn't doing as poorly nationwide.
I suspect it's only a matter of time before conservative
candidates figure out that the endorsement of his ugly movement is
the kiss of death on their chances of getting elected.
... AIDS and Global Warming don't scare me: Pat Robertson does!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: OR MAYBE JUST SUGAR
|Date: 10 Mar 96 08:13:33
EID:1ecb 206a41a0
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 a69e51ba
On (07 Mar 96) Judith Bandsma wrote to Jim Germiquet...
JG> GREAT MESSAGE and worth quoting for people to read again :-)
JB> And that's what the legislation in Colorado, and proposed in Oregon,
JB> would do. When any one group is singled out like that, and it is
JB> allowed to stand, we are ALL in danger of losing rights that people
JB> have fought and died for.
JB> Who knows...YOU could be next.
Lou just shoved the front page of today's paper under my nose. I'll
not quote the entire article, but I will quote enough to give you the
flavor:
Sunday, March 10, 1996, Oregonian, by Mark O'Keefe:
WHO WILL MABON HAVE LEFT TO LEAD IN OCA?
A failed effort to control Oregon Republicans and differences
in political goals split the Christian conservatives.
Lon Mabor surveyed the room of Republican delegates like a general
on a battlefield. This day, Jan. 7, 1995, his movement was to
seize control of the Oregon GOP, just as Christian conservatives
had done in 18 other states.
With an army of central committee members loyal to his Oregon
Citizens Alliance, Mabon thought he could unseat GOP chairman
Randy Miller, who had refused to endorse the OCA's anti-gay
rights initiative.
John Leon, then the OCA's state coalition director, worked
the crowd with Mabon, making it clear there would be hell
to pay if delegates didn't vote with the forced of
righteousness.
"Threats were being made," Leon said. "What had been discussed
in staff meetings was that those who didn't go with him would
be taken out next time around. That's the way Lon does business."
It was to have been the decisive moment of power for Mabon.
Instead, it was the day it all began to unravel.
A year later, the Oregon Citizens Alliance, one of the country's
first and most successful religious-based, grass-roots political
organizations, is on the brink of going out of business, say
Leon and other former members of the OCA inner circle.
Membership has fallen by nearly a third, to 2,500. Conservative
candidates such as Gordon LSmith, a Pendleton Republican running
for the U.S. Senate, are shunning the OCA's support after accepting
it in the past. Former OCA insiders are discussing what their
"pro-family movement" will look like after the OCA's death....
[In the article, Lon's former communications director is quoted
as saying] "The demise of the OCA is not murder, it's suicide."
Another fun quote: "He (Mabon) said, 'God doesn't send two
messages. I get the message, and if they want to know how
to vote, they should ask me.' I said, 'Lon, do you know
what you're saying?' He said, 'Yes." It was at that moment
that I realized the ability to coalition with the OCA
leadership was over." Sen. Marylin Shannon, R-Clear Lake
The quote under Lonnie's picture says "'Throughout history, even
in the Scriptures, some of the worst betrayals and hurtful acts
come from people of your own house or closest circle.' Lon Mabon"
So, I guess he sees himself as a kin to Jesus Christ Himself.
This is one funeral I'll attend with a smile on my face. Good
riddance to bad rubbish.
... Bigamist: A large fog in Venice.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Sharks [1]
|Date: 10 Mar 96 08:56:15
EID:9321 206a4700
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 a39b30a9
REPLY: 1:116/19 04CF239A
On (07 Mar 96) Al Schroeder wrote to Kenneth Cavness...
AS> he spoke to his minister about many things, and asked him, (he says
AS> the minister didn't know he was gay) "Do you think God would prefer
a
AS> man dead...or gay?"
AS> The minister answered without reservation, "Gay."
You blew it. The minister answered, "Dead."
... Some minds should be cultivated but others plowed under.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: URL!
|Date: 10 Mar 96 09:00:23
EID:f879 206a4800
MSGID: 1:105/40.666 29501c47
REPLY: 1:116/19 04CF406E
On (07 Mar 96) Al Schroeder wrote to Kenneth Cavness...
KC> I might be using it in an even more narrow sense, that being
KC> "evangelical". I generally use the moniker "fundie" to refer to
KC> "evangelical" anyways.
AS> Yes. I tend to call them "charistmatics" but I understand you now.
It
AS> is such a change to see someone use the word "fundamentalist" on Holy
AS> Smoke in the way _I_ would use it that I misjudged.
I use it in much the same way you do. But I STILL regard Mikey
as a fundy. Perhaps it's because I see a third component to
the definition: an absolute sense of one's own rightness to
the point where it is totally impossible for the bearer to say
"I see your point."
... Quick! Close your mind! Something blasphemous might get in.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Kenneth Cavness
|Sub: perservere [1/2] [2/2]
|Date: 09 Mar 96 12:39:00
EID:6de0 206964e0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 3142fe90
A lone voice in the wilderness, Kenneth mournfully howled out
"perservere"
SA> I was, in fact, wondering about that - what if the College members
SA> said to hell with it, and voted for whoever THEY wanted in?
KC> This was the whole point of the Electoral College.
KC> In fact, Alexander Hamilton didn't like the idea of a representative
KC> democracy getting a popular vote at all. He considered the mood of the
?!
KC> People to be too capricious, and wanted the Electorate to be able to
KC> choose as they wished.
! Eee. So much for claims of being completely democratic from
inception. Looks to me like a nice little loophole there, one
even more nasty than stuffing ballot boxes (whereas the loophole
is legal, and stuffing ballots is generally not).
KC> Instead, a mish-mash was developed.
Mish-mash, indeed. It seems almost that the votes by the people
are just an illusion, which might be broken at any time those in
power decide the public just doesn't know what it wants or what's
good for it any more. "We don't like THESE votes. The people
cannot be trusted. So, we'll vote OUR way."
KC> The Electoral College delegates can indeed vote for whoever they want.
KC> For this reason, the delegates are actually chosen quite carefully by
KC> the state head (be it governor or otherwise).
!!
What if most governers were, for whatever reason, of a specific
bent of whatever sort? It sounds as if the Presidency can be
unduly influenced through this process.
KC> A recent case are those delegates that chose Clinton, even though
KC> their state actually chose Bush.
!!!
I find that quite alarming. As I posted back to Dan yesterday, it
seems far too much like a serious weak point in the electoral
process. Is there anything at all in place to ensure that these
College dudes don't decide to get together and stage a sort of
coup? What would happen if, say, Clinton and Gramm were running,
but the majority of these clowns decided they wanted, oh, Pat
Buchanon in, instead? While I'm not a fan of Bush et al, I find
the fact that the College went against the votes of the people of
said state very disturbing.
It does seem that the system has worked well for you folks since
your country's inception, and Dan mentioned that some states
require their delegates to abide by public will .. but it still
sounds like a very vulnerable area, open to abuse and machinations
by those with dictatorial bents (assuming enough of them got
together, and/or got to be College delegates.) Considering the
military and economic power the US still weilds, it's not a
comforting thought that someday, some way, an election might be
engineered to serve the interests of who knows who, possibly to
the detriment not only of your neighbours who might not always do
what Congress and/or controlling special interests has in mind
for them, but to US citizens (especially dissidents of whatever
stripe) as well. Perhaps I misconstrued something here .. and I
hope I have .. or I simply haven't gotten enough information yet
to accurately go on.
--Wolfie
If you work with your hands for your livelihood,
Some day you might have to choose;
When the class war rages on the factory floor,
If you don't fight, you lose.
--Redgum
... It's tourist season in Florida, bag limit two.
--- GEcho 1.00
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Steve Rose
|Sub: WHAT??
|Date: 09 Mar 96 14:38:01
EID:28cf 206974c0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 3142fe91
A lone voice in the wilderness, Steve mournfully howled out "WHAT??"
RB> The young black woman went to the doctor, concerned about her periods.
RB> The doctor asks "What's your flow like"?
RB> "Well, it's sorta like linoleum" says she.
SR> And in honor of the tenth anniversary of Challenger...these all-time
SR> favorites:
SR> Why did NASA stock Pepsi aboard the Shuttle?
SR> Because they couldn't get Seven Up.
SR> NASA sent a Math Teacher up into space.
SR> Now...she's History.
SR> NASA saved a ton of money on the Astronauts' funeral.
SR> They gave them all a free burial-at-sea!
Hehehe. Say, it -has- been 10 years already, hasn't it? I'm
surprised I haven't noticed any organised whinging about how
dangerous space travel is, how NASA should be done away with, how
we shouldn't waste money and possibly lives on trying to reach for
the stars. Not that it matters much, anwyay - seems like all the
guts have been taken out of NASA since that one stupid little
explosion. All they seem to do anymore is dippy-do "experiments"
that don't seem to reveal much of anything at all .. hacking up
mice that've been in space a mere week is nothing compared to
studying the after-effects of Russians being on Mir for months at
a time.
What happened to the boldness of the Apollo project? So some
silly civilian died - big deal. She knew it might be dangerous
when she went up - if she didn't, she was too dumb to be a
teacher, anwyay. The character Q from ST:TNG probably said it
best - "It's a dangerous universe out there - if you can't take a
bloody nose once in a while, you've no business being out here."
(Or something to that effect.) When the Challenger accident first
happened, the whining and wailing for months afterwards and the
near death of the space programme seems to indicate that America
is too wussy to take an occasional bloody nose. Shame. I had
thought the US to be made of sterner stuff before that. I was
gravely disappointed that NASA only timidly brushed itself off,
and is acting somewhat like a mouse poking his nose out of a hole
even 10 years on. Granted, I have no say in how much money NASA
gets; but I certainly wouldn't mind having my taxes go towards
contribution towards a joint international space project of a more
grandiose sort. I want to see a REAL space station/dock in my
lifetime, damnit. I don't remember any of the moon landings; I
was too young. I did, however, skip school (with mom's
permission) to witness the first shuttle launch, and I still
remmeber how exciting and hopeful it all was. There's risk in
everything, and I think that space exploration/colonisation is
well worth it. One of the hallmarks of humanity is its desire to
keep going, even when comrades fall; it'd be a shame to lose that
spirit now, to cheat all of humanity of the benefits that space
offers, simply because a few intrepid folk happen to die once in a
while. Should mistakes break us, and make us hide, or should they
make us learn so that the next try can be more successful?
(Yes, Kevin, those songs you sent were QUITE appropos. I
especially like "Apollo Lost". After all, one of my characters,
Laika, was named after the first Earthling in space - a Russian
dog who rode in Sputnik II, but didn't make it back alive.
His/her image is engraved on the Wall of Heroes in Moscow,
alongside Yuri Gegarin and other cosmonauts, a rather lovely
tribute. I saw the story - and the Wall - on PBS one day, and was
greatly moved.)
--Wolfie
If you work with your hands for your livelihood,
Some day you might have to choose;
When the class war rages on the factory floor,
If you don't fight, you lose.
--Redgum
... Quantum Physics: the Dreams that stuff is made of.
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: CHURCHES
|Date: 09 Mar 96 15:34:02
EID:238a 20697c40
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 3142fe92
A lone voice in the wilderness, David mournfully howled out "CHURCHES"
DW>> Preterite?
RJ> I explained it to McKenzie yesterday or the day before.
DW> I saw that the day after I sent my query.
RJ> And in truth, I rode Stall's case for not bothering to look up a
RJ> word in the dictionary--I should urge the same of you.
DW> Preterite isn't in my dictionary - I checked before asking.
The word is in mine, though not in the sense Robert meant it; it
has only the grammatical definitions (ie, "of the form of a verb
which denotes something done or existing in the past" and "the
preterite tense of a verb".) A clue is given, though, in the
etymology, being from the Latin for "to pass by". Therefore, I
assume that Robert meant folks whom YHWH passes by, like those
Kalahari Bushmen and pre-Columbian Indians.
DW> My dictionary does contain both "onus" and "erudite", though.
DW> Go ride Staal some more :)
Cripes, Staal, the so-called English Major, couldn't even figure
out words by context. If he's an English Major, I'm Queen
Elizabeth.
On the other hand, perhaps he meant he was an officer in the
British Army. Nahh. The limeys wouldn't have him, either.
--Wolfie
If you work with your hands for your livelihood,
Some day you might have to choose;
When the class war rages on the factory floor,
If you don't fight, you lose.
--Redgum
... Where do you take an unwanted Chia Pet?
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: hi
|Date: 09 Mar 96 15:55:03
EID:7f7d 20697ee0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 3142fe93
A lone voice in the wilderness, Katherine mournfully howled out "hi"
GTP>KW> Wheee, another priestess for the Holysmoke Get Together Chocolate
GTP>KW> Ritual!!!
GTP>Are we really going to get together??? That would be so cool!
KW> I don't know. I hope so, San Antonio has been mentioned as a possible
KW> site. That I could probably make (and maybe even drag Bear along).
KW> Maybe we should do something for 'Spouses of Holysmoke'? (Spice of
KW> Holysmoke?)
San Antonio? :( That's a bit far for my blood. I hate to
imagine how much a bus or train would cost to get there. (Though,
if someone passes near Detroit, I could go get a driver's license
real quick-like and split the driving .. unless, of course, I'm
declared legally blind at my next eye exam, which is likely, and
which would probably be a detriment to any prospects of getting
any sort of license at all.) I'd love the excuse to go see Texas,
though. I love praries and deserts and wide open spaces, almost
as much as I like mountains. Oh, yeah, and meeting you folks
would be neat, too. :)
--Wolfie
If you work with your hands for your livelihood,
Some day you might have to choose;
When the class war rages on the factory floor,
If you don't fight, you lose.
--Redgum
... As God is my witness .. I thought turkeys could fly! - Arthur Carlson
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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SEEN-BY: 200/204 202/1207 203/15 206/2711 218/801 809 907 234/100 245/6910
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|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: The Bible and The Bible alone
|Date: 09 Mar 96 16:09:04
EID:7382 20698120
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 3142fe94
A lone voice in the wilderness, David mournfully howled out "The Bible
and The Bible alone"
LB>> so I can't see that you have anything to complain about. Nor can
LB>> I see why it should trouble you if I've found friendship instead
LB>> -- that doesn't seem to be what you want anyway.
JS> That you would have to sacrifice Biblical principles to do so is what
JS> would bother me, Lynda.
DW> Which Biblical principles has she sacrificed, Jim-bob?
Why, she speaks her own mind, and doesn't let hubby do it for her,
like Jimbo's wife does.
--Wolfie
If you work with your hands for your livelihood,
Some day you might have to choose;
When the class war rages on the factory floor,
If you don't fight, you lose.
--Redgum
... Squirrels - Junk food for bears!
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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SEEN-BY: 251/12 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 272/82 280/1
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SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2605/606
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|From: Mark Barnett
|To: Dawn Kleuser
|Sub: Angel Fundy
|Date: 10 Mar 96 13:07:00
EID:decf 206a68e0
MSGID: 1:3819/163 3143BEDB
DK>. I suppose in the next few days I'll see 2,000 questions from
DK>lurkers like Dan Ceppa and J.j. Hitt wanting to know who my SOURCES are
and
DK>I can prove the existence of angels... truth be known, I can't prove
that to
DK>anybody who is so UNFUNDY and sarcastic (not a flame, just being truthful).
DK>Aaahhh, well. Such is life....................................... Oh,
what
DK>HELL, let's have a bit of fun....GOT ANY GOOD ANGEL STORIES????
Ut-
DK> Here they COME!!! - Thanks again - Dawn
Well not really but one of your lurkers has allready got me going on The
great flood. But I will always be here as a good Chistian to listen to
your tell's and enjoy and learn. A open mind is very important to a true
beliver. Well let the other show scorn I pity them for there liminted
imaginations that alow them no room for the majsty of the cross and the
peace of Faith.
Your Friend in Christ,
Mark Barnett
* OLX 2.1 TD * There is Hope for all, and There is Always room To DR---
* LAKOTA v1.5
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS: -* Texarkana, TX * 903-792-6135 *- (1:3819/163)
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|From: Styx Allum
|To: Monty Arch
|Sub: Angels
|Date: 10 Mar 96 23:30:00
EID:f954 206abbc0
MSGID: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 23175e7e
REPLY: 1:236/64 23001834
> I have a guardian angel that pulled me back from oncoming traffic,
> which I was stepping out from between parked cars.
>>Was it wearing pink lace and white slippers with lots of glitter?
> Only if my guardian angel was you.
Well, since you're already in a fantasy world; it would be
consistent that your fantasies about me would be equally absurd.
Dream on, angel boy.
---
* Origin: Ever wonder why churches have lightning rods? (1:152/20)
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|From: Styx Allum
|To: Mark Staal
|Sub: #smoke
|Date: 10 Mar 96 23:34:01
EID:f4bc 206abc40
MSGID: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 23175e7f
REPLY: 1:228/45.0 31404861
> ........Al, I heard, awhile back, that you were in #Smoke....
> You don't happen to know how to get there on the internet
> or have the correct address?
Download mIRC 3.92 and connect via undernet.org to #holysmoke
---
* Origin: The other side of the wall. Keep it down in there! (1:152/20)
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|From: Styx Allum
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Question
|Date: 10 Mar 96 23:45:02
EID:e8a2 206abda0
MSGID: 1:152/20@fidonet.org 23175e80
REPLY: 1:170/309@fidonet.org f00a8ae8
> SA> > ... Conservative integration - A white golfer with a black caddie.
> SA>This white non-golfer used to drive a black Cadillac.
> SA>Your tagline was typical of a something that a racist would say,
> SA>George. Do you want to sound like a racist?
> Styx, I cannot believe George is a racist. A lousy speller, yes...
> he meant 'caddy'...in which case it's humorous irony. (although
> I'm not sure how the diminutive for Cadillac is really spelled,
> I don't think that's what was implied)...
Karl... forgive my astonishment at your literal interpretation
of what I believed to be obvious sarcasm. And no...
I didn't park it in the Caddyshack. ;-)
> Looks to me like it was merely a way to point out hypocrisy...
Ironically, his pointing out of hypocrisy was in itself hypocritical
(in light of creating bias in order that it be found).
> ---
> * OLX 2.2 * Ping Pong Balls: A Chinese venereal disease.
Cockroaches: Venereal buggers resistant to radiation.
---
* Origin: Origin: Origin: Origin: Origin: (Damned echos!) (1:152/20)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: A LITTLE HELP FROM SP
|Date: 09 Mar 96 19:53:00
EID:a628 20699ea0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893D0E2C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-08-96 05:18, Jim Germiquet got back to David Worrell
JG> God CHOOSES to be limited.
He does??? Why not prove the evidence that your god even exists
before you tell us what you claim your god can do?
... +Origin: PARASTALSIS NETWORK: Down the Tube with Jeeesus!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Dawn Kleuser
|Sub: Adolph Hitler
|Date: 09 Mar 96 20:03:00
EID:da67 2069a060
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893D0E2D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-08-96 15:18, Dawn Kleuser got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Got evidence that Satan exists, John? If so, lets see it.
DK> Hello, Dan. Yep, it's me. I'm sure you're thrilled. I just
Yep, haven't had a good laugh in the last 20 seconds...
DK> every effort to tear me up on what I'm about to say here. Flat out:
DK> There IS Satan, just as there is God. For every force, there is an
Problem is, you have yet to provide evidence for either one of the
deities that you worship.
DK> well argue over what shade of blue the sky is with people who are
DK> color-blind.
Unlike your god, the concept of blue can be demonstrated even to
blind people. They may not be able to see the color with their
eyes, but the color can be shown to be testable.
... Jesus loves you...but, then, so does Barney.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Allegory
|Date: 09 Mar 96 20:05:00
EID:c61a 2069a0a0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893D0E2E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-07-96 20:27, Michael Hardy got back to Tom Hart
-> Re: Allegory
MH> No, God is not a "guess."
Then, Mikey, you should be more than willing to provide the
evidence that supports your claim.
... All Truths begin as blasphemies. George Bernard Shaw
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Tom Hart
|Sub: Allegory
|Date: 09 Mar 96 20:08:00
EID:d3f4 2069a100
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893D0E2F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-07-96 20:27, Michael Hardy got back to Tom Hart
MH@> You can't know for certain. You can make *educated* guesses, though.
TH> So your God is a guess. Please *_NEVER_* pass your guess as fact.
MH> that's the fastest way to be added to my rapidly growing twit filter.
Congradulations! You made it to Mikey's twit filter faster than
anyone else that I'm aware of!
At the rate Mikey's twiting people, I'm suprised that he hasn't
even twitted himself.
... "Thread Dropped, discussion welcome." Michael "clueless" Hardy
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Brad Jackson
|Sub: Re: Baptism
|Date: 09 Mar 96 20:16:00
EID:1b2a 2069a200
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893D0E30
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-08-96 03:33, Brad Jackson got back to Fredric Rice
FR> Have any evidence for these invisible playmates of yours? Any at all?
BJ> can not see yet we know exist! I won't go into all of them here,
BJ> but lets see what the bible said about people that believe with you
Ever hear of the concept of Circular Reasoning?
BJ> John 20:29
Didn't think that you did. Now, trot your dead prophet out
and show he exists, not existed, in other than the broken
turntable that you call your brain.
... Brad Jackson ...Condom poster child
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Brad Jackson
|Sub: Re: Bible
|Date: 09 Mar 96 20:18:00
EID:899d 2069a240
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893D0E31
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-08-96 03:33, Brad Jackson got back to Kenneth Cavness
BJ> The bible is true because God (Jesus Christ) said it is true!
Spin, 'lil' fundy, spin. You are making the Whirling Dervishes
look like statues.
... It's ALWAYS dark if you never open your eyes!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411 123/1
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Brad Jackson
|Sub: Re: Bible
|Date: 09 Mar 96 20:23:00
EID:899d 2069a2e0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893D0E32
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-08-96 03:33, Brad Jackson got back to Dan Ceppa
BJ> profitable for doctrine,
DC> Of course it's profitable. Where do you think that they get the
DC> money to build those big churches.
BJ> Acts 7:49 Heaven my throne,
And it's made of porcelain and should have been flushed well over
2,000 years ago.
... Creationists: Transitional forms between idiots and morons.
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: BIG BIRD
|Date: 09 Mar 96 20:31:00
EID:a41c 2069a3e0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893D0E33
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-07-96 07:40, Judith Bandsma got back to Norbert Sykes
JB> discourage him...even telling him it was snails...because they were
JB> fairly expensive. Then we figured we'd let him find out for himself.
JB> He loved them. So that became his special birthday food.
My daughter's standing order for her birthday is lobster. MAINE
Lobster, which is a bit dfficult to get out here...
There's a great story about the first time she saw a lobster, but
it needs to be told visually! (Which reminds me... She was sick
over her last birthday and we weren't able to go out for dinner,
which I promised her. Looks like I'll have to do that soon, as
the next time I'll have to pay for her date's meal!)
... Oysters are clearly members of the phlegm family....
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: christology
|Date: 09 Mar 96 20:42:00
EID:a7f0 2069a540
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893D0E34
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-07-96 14:44, Lee Woofenden got back to Dan Ceppa
LW> Exactly! God's accepting us as we are is the reason evil can exist.
We
DC> Try looking back into your mythos, as understand where "evil"
DC> came from.
DC> Try looking into your bible, Lee. It's your god that is responsible
LW> If you are talking about the Bible, yes, I have read and studied it
LW> for many years.
Too bad you have only read it.
LW> Dan, the Bible is not so much a single "mythos" as a history of the
LW> development of the mythos of a particular segment of the human race
Problem is, Lee, that the mythos was stolen from other extant
mythos. The bigger problem is that those that stole it didn't
just make it into a mythology, they made it into a religion.
LW> things like "God created evil," you're going to be disappointed when
LW> you actually read the Bible from beginning to end.
Your problem, Lee, is that I have read it. And, not just once and
not from what I was supposed to read.
LW> question is not so much, "What does the Bible say?" as "How do we
LW> interpret what the Bible says, and what weight do we give to it?"
Take that further: Take it to the point that you will allow others
that do not buy into your mythos to exercise their own choice of
religion and/or non-belief. Can you do that?
LW> Having pointed that out, I can tell you, Dan, that you do not even
LW> know what "my mythos" is,
That just shows how little you know and why my entreaty to understand
other beliefs has fallen on very deafened ears.
... Jesus saves...but what is he saving you for??
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Claims of deity construct
|Date: 09 Mar 96 20:45:00
EID:e054 2069a5a0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893D0E35
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-08-96 05:18, Jim Germiquet got back to Fredric Rice
JG> And now you tell me where YOUR deity constructs come from. tell me
You been holding back on us, Fred?
... "Have any honest answers, or will you respond like a xian?" D Martin
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: cult evaluation form
|Date: 09 Mar 96 20:49:00
EID:9b65 2069a620
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893D0E36
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-07-96 01:04, Al Schroeder got back to J.j. Hitt
JG> My religion is not of this world.
JH> You're a Martian?
AS> See, I TOLD you my Church has a good missionary program....
AS> (Sure hated it when the missionary had Dejah Thoris get dressed,
AS> though...)
I tried to warn you about that, but now you have to put up with
that Puritan concept....
I'm not sure, but I think I have a few John Carter comics.
And, NO! I don't have any duplicates in that series!!!! :-)
... "You seem a decent fellow. I hate to kill you." - Inigo Montoya
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: drool game
|Date: 09 Mar 96 20:54:00
EID:4d55 2069a6c0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893D0E37
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-07-96 23:01, Michael Hardy got back to All
MH> Like any of you care, my patience for this echo is wearing thin. So
MH> I'm going to liven it up with a little game.
Gee, that's nice. Are you leaving and coming back under an
alias?
... Your skull is a cerebral cortex compost site.
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: All
|Sub: Hardy's hard on, Hardly!
|Date: 09 Mar 96 21:09:00
EID:a44f 2069a920
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 893D0E38
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 03-07-96 23:01, Michael Hardy got back to All
MH> The following people make up the charter group of twits: Dan Ceppa,
MH> David Rice, Fredric Rice, Sean McCullough, Steve Rose and David
MH> Worrell.
Eat your hearts out, David, Fredric, Sean, Steve and David!
I, God Dan, got star billing! Though, coming from Michael,
that really doesn't mean as much. After all, the Oscar he has
gleaned for playing the "Wounded Fundy" is far more prodigious.
That's of course knowing that that Oscar is as hollow and
gilt as well as his god is.
... "Thread Dropped, discussion welcome." Michael "clueless" Hardy
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