God Damned Fundies!
|From: Ed Mills
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: In the news
|Date: 09 Mar 97 09:51:26
EID:3de5 22694e60
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 8a85f7a5
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 331c112c
Rod Swift sD "Hi, s!" Ė Steve Quarrella, ĖHs:
SQ> Oh, how hateful! You hate Christians!
RS> We love Christians. We want them to meet their maker Real Soon
RS> Now (tm) so that they can help Jesus come again, or something.
RS> *shrug* I don't get their religion. It's so stupid and
RS> internally contradictory.
That's the whole point of it. Nobody has to get it. It's based on
things that are outside the realm of reason, so it's exempt from
questioning. No assembly required.
edweird
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 09 Mar 97 09:55:50
EID:938f 22694ee0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 1b5bc299
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 331c14b4
Rod Swift sD "Hi, s!" Ė Marilyn Burge, ĖHs:
RS> * On 27-02-97 at 04:50, MARILYN BURGE wrote to KEN YOUNG,
RS> on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
MB> KY> Gays will go to Hell if they are not saved, and if you are
MB> KY> gay, you cannot be saved.
It's good to know that there are people who cannot be saved, whether
they choose to or not. I hope you'll include me in that group.
edweird
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Irc Log Fun!
|Date: 09 Mar 97 13:17:06
EID:6d06 22696a20
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 9a4e5c00
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 3c0a6af2
Jim Staal sD "Hi, s!" Ė Fredric Rice, ĖHs:
FR> You're 100% willful slave to hatred.
JS> You are really the _only_ hateful person on this echo. You hate God,
JS> His Christ, and anyone who bears the name Christian.
Nah. What he hates is the criminal behaviour so routinely perpetrated
by adherents of the abovementioned delusions.
edweird
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Lon Mabon
|Date: 09 Mar 97 13:20:25
EID:e232 22696a80
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 375c4419
REPLY: 1:228/45.5 29c0d467
Jim Staal sD "Hi, s!" Ė Fredric Rice, ĖHs:
FR> Why do you use Lon S. Mabon's name? Could it be because you're in
FR> agreement with his traditional Christianity as outlined above, pig?
JS> The correct question was 'why _did_ I use the name Lon S. Mabon.
JS> (there is no such person).
Aha. There is a god, a holy ghost and a saviour, (for all of which
there is no evidence) but there is no Lon Mabon.
And all this time I thought the opposite. :)
edweird
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: clones
|Date: 09 Mar 97 13:37:07
EID:58c6 22696ca0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 a50fae79
REPLY: 3:711/933 332061b2
Anthony Grigor-Scott sD "Hi, s!" Ė Lynda Bustilloz, ĖHs:
AG> Dear Lynda Bustilloz,
AG> Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
LB> They can now successfully clone a mammal...humans are mammals. Will
a
LB> cloned human be regarded as having a soul?
AG> That's an interesting question. I did not bother to read how the beast
AG> was actually produced and until I know I cannot speculate.
AG> Nonetheless, it was not a creation but a product of creation.
Too bad god isn't omniscient. Think of all the trouble he could
have prevented.
edweird
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Alan Hess
|Sub: You forgot to answer this...
|Date: 09 Mar 97 08:37:29
EID:21e2 226944a0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 d625cf79
On (01 Mar 97) Alan Hess babbled to Ken Young...
AH> Whilst masticating on , Ken Young (1:270/420)
AH> wrote to Alan Hess:
KY>> Nope.. Now, if they switched to Messianic Jew, on the other
KY>> hand, that would be another story..
AH>> A so-called Messianic Jew is a Christian, not a Jew.
KY> One can't be a Christian Jew?
AH> No. The two are mutually exclusive.
Not so. All twelve of the Disciples were Jews.
... Teenages are God's punishment for enjoying sex!
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Shelby Sherman
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Harry Truman.
|Date: 09 Mar 97 11:06:41
EID:11a7 226958c0
MSGID: 1:123/67 33229a27
REPLY: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89a15389
PID: GED3 2.51.a901 124LM3
08 Mar 97 10:39, quoting Laurie Appleton to Dan Ceppa:
LA> dans le re'gne anmal (1825).
^^^^^
LA> (7) Whitley, Journal of the Philosophical Society of
LA> Great Britain, XII (1910),
^^^^^
LA> Elephant (1916), p. 236.
LA> (8) J.D. Dana, Manual of Geology (4th ed.; 1894), p.1007.
^^^^^
LA> (Earth In Upheaval, Immanuel Velikovsky, 1956, p. 7)
^^^^
You're an Idiot, yaknowit?
--- GodEdit 0.00
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|From: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Convention on the Rights
|Date: 09 Mar 97 09:43:36
EID:1b79 22694d60
MSGID: 3:711/933 332289fe
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 331afe12
Dear Rod Swift,
Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
AG>> visit http:/www.biblebelievers.org.au
RS> Do you have the stuff that the Sydney Morning Herald reported
RS> about online yet at the web site?
Other people have it on-line. It is hardly edifying as Jeremy Jones of the
Board of Jewish Deputies lied against the Talmud, then embraced
"Father" Brian Lucas of the Roman Catholic church who has frequently
been called a liar (live on air) on Sydney commercial radio and he lied
about the published objectives of the present Pope.
Together both men lied about the contents of Bible Believers BBS. The
whole article was ostensibly condemning the BBS for carrying "Nameless
War" by Captain Ramsay, a British MP who wrote TRUTH .... something far
from the experience of these men if that article is any yardstick. They
were also incensed that we carried "The Thirteenth Tribe" by a TRUTHFUL
man, an Askenazi Jew named Arthur Koestler published by Randam House and
resourced from the most eminent Jewish historians. We do not and have
never carried this book which is probably still under copyright.
Nonetheless, either book is available from your local library or through
an inter-library loan and the bookstores are happy to get them in. (I've
asked). I copied "The Nameless War" from a serialisation in the National
press three or four years ago. I read "The Thirteenth Tribe" in the macquarrie
University Library.
The HONEST purpose of the journalist, Jon Casimir, who wrote the DIShonest
article was to make a bit of a mark for himself at the expense of editorial
integrity and with no regard for truth or offending innocents, knowing the
power of the Jewish Press (as the Sydney Morning Herald was) and that there
was no redress I could take.
The HONEST purpose of the Jewish Board of Deputies was to strike a blow
for censorship of the InterNet, BBS, etc. I just happened to be a "mark"
they
could use in a cowardly way with impunity. You are another. The difference
is, you don't recognize it.
RS> * OLX 2.1 TD * If Jesus is Jewish, why does he have a Spanish name?
Jesus was not Jewish. Neither was he Spanish. His blood was the blood of
God.
Kind regards,
Anthony Grigor-Scott
visit http:/www.biblebelievers.org.au
--- GoldED/386 2.50.Beta5+
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Alternative of Straw.
|Date: 09 Mar 97 12:04:32
EID:c6cf 22696080
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 325 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 161d8e50
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
LA>MG>In a weak moment I posted to you. I see that you still post with
LA>MG>messages full of lies and misquoted scientists. You are truly a
LA>MG>worthless bag of scum.
LA>You are a lying son of a bitch.
Eat shit, you lying, syphilitic afterbirth of a drunken gangfuck.
-!-
ž OLX 2.2 ž Nuke a gay Jesus for the baby whales.
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: You *didn't* answer this
|Date: 09 Mar 97 12:04:33
EID:a8af 22696080
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 325 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 161d8e51
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
JS> JS> well, lets see... mcveigh supposedly admitted to doing it, they
have
JS> JS> witnesses that say they saw him rent the truck, he belonged to a
fundy
JS> JS> militia... nah, nothing that will hold up in court there...
JS>Fundy militia???? Could you be a bit more specific?
If he can't, I can. He was a regular at 'Elohim City', an enclave
of heavily-armed right-wing nutcake wacko fundy idiots about 20 miles
from me.
-!-
ž OLX 2.2 ž Quark: Smallest particle in universe except fundy brain.
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: clones
|Date: 09 Mar 97 12:04:34
EID:a485 22696080
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 325 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 161d8e56
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
KW>KS>Well, 'Dolly', the first actual adult mammal clone is alive and well.
KW>KS>Coincidentally, she's a sheep.
KW>KS>I'm having a devil (oops) of a time trying to figure out what impact
KW>KS>this will have on fundys...
KW>Cheaper 'marital aids'.
Heh. I'm gonna wait for the 2nd generation where they can be 'made
to order'...
-!-
ž OLX 2.2 ž Fundys knee-deep in gasoline tossing matches at infidels.
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: clones
|Date: 09 Mar 97 12:04:34
EID:b28e 22696080
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 325 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 161d8e57
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
FR>ks> Well, 'Dolly', the first actual adult mammal clone
FR>ks> is alive and well. Coincidentally, she's a sheep.
FR>I'm wonderig why it's being considered the first. Food cows have been
cloned
FR>for the past decade.
Are you sure? I'm aware of husbandry techniques with AI etc., but
never heard of any cloning being done...
-!-
ž OLX 2.2 ž God not found. Deleting OMNI.*
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: clones
|Date: 09 Mar 97 12:04:34
EID:e479 22696080
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 325 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 161d8e58
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
JH> KS> And, assuming they can afford it, will result in some
JH> KS> really awesome NFL teams...
JH> I doubt it will ever result in producing full fledged copies
JH> of adult human beings (it'll always be cheaper to make them
JH> the old fashioned way).
Er, you mean making a fully-grown copy? Nope I don't think *that*
will ever be done, but I would give really big odds there will be
DNA duplicate embryos within a year. Somewhere.
JH> But just think what it could do to the field of organ
JH> transplantation. No time spent waiting for a donor. No
JH> fruitless searches for a perfect tissue match. If you need a
JH> kidney or a liver ya GROW ONE. Of course, for ethical
JH> reasons, you would have to grow it in a non-human host animal.
JH> But this has now become something within the realm of the
JH> "maybe do-able".
Hell, why not grow it in a human-type body? It's just artificial
anyway...
-!-
ž OLX 2.2 ž I used to get stiff in the joints so I quit going to them
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Mario Gonzalez
|Sub: clones
|Date: 09 Mar 97 12:04:34
EID:7e21 22696080
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 325 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 161d8e59
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
MG> MG> people with no souls roaming the planet!
MG> KS> Better that than what we have now; fundys with no MINDS roaming...
MG> After all the ethical debates are over I wonder if it will be
OK
MG> to clone myself, then in maybe 12 or 20 years harvest a new
MG> heart for me and discard what is not needed
Sure. And while you're at it, download your brain to a hard drive,
then copy it back into the new brain. Repeat as needed.
(with my luck the damn drive would crash)...;>
-!-
ž OLX 2.2 ž Race car spelled backwards is race car.
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: All
|Sub: BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA
|Date: 09 Mar 97 12:04:35
EID:c147 22696080
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 325 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 161d8e5b
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
JUST IN CASE ANYONE MISSED THIS ONE...
JS>-=> Jim Staal said, in a huffy tone of voice, to Marilyn Burge <=-
JS>Oh, I don't know. The head of a newborn is about 3-4 inches at max. My
JS>dick is longer than that and I know I have never penetrated the cervix
JS>so the head (being the last thing to come out in a breeched birth) would
JS>be beyond the cervix. Get off it, lady.
-!-
ž OLX 2.2 ž Titicaca. It's a place, not something you do.
-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
---
* Origin: CompuMate - Tulsa, OK (918)663-3454 (1:170/551)
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: TDHW
|Date: 08 Mar 97 20:23:07
EID:5336 2268a2e0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 51a563e7
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 ea1e546b
Marilyn Burge sD "Hi, s!" Ė Ed Mills, ĖHs:
EM> Sagan pokes great fun at the suggestibility of humans in general,
EM> and I shan't be surprised if, somewhere along the way, he takes
EM> a slice out of folks who are somehow tricked into thinking this
EM> book is a work of fiction.
EM> I guess it was the bible I was thinking of.
MB> I have a copy I haven't read yet. (GAWD! I wish "they" would
MB> offer another financial incentive to retire so's I could catch
MB> up on my reading!)
One of the perks of 2.5 hrs/day worth of Tri-Met.
Along with always being among the first in town to catch the
latest flu.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Blavatsky?
|Date: 08 Mar 97 20:26:54
EID:8154 2268a340
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 f4f37f11
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 33216573
Don Martin sD "Hi, s!" Ė Ed Mills, ĖHs:
DM> Ed Mills said "Blavatsky?" to Don Martin, adding:
DM> Calabreeze was his name (your spelling may vary), Christopher, I
DM> think. It once was in the FAQ (of fond memory). Here is the quote
DM> (in all caps, sic) from back in '95:
DM> "FUCK YOU ATHEIST! WHEN I FIND OUT WHERE YOU LIVE, I'LL DRIVE A
DM> PITCHFORK THROUGH THAT EMPTY HEAD OF YOURS, YOU ARROGANT PIG!
What a piece of work.
Although I missed out on the more flamboyantly idiotic stuff in
recent years hereabouts, I did enjoy a medium-sized e-mail flame of
that nhorsley@pobox.com character - you know, that christiangallery
website.
In fact, I think I'll check the mail right now, while I'm
thinking of it. :)
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: ALL
|Sub: nazi website
|Date: 08 Mar 97 21:50:34
EID:2591 2268ae40
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 93f133d7
I checked out www.christiangallery.com and subsequently
took a swipe at its proprietor, nhorsley@pobox.com. The
response was predictably feeble - even by comparison to
my own debating skills, which are barely average; I shame-
lessly filched phraseology from a couple folks around here
who are more articulate than I, in addition to the Hitler
quote from... was it Ron Vass?
So, in a way, it was sort of all of us who flamed the
website guy. Hey! I'm a channeler for Holysmoke!
Please excuse the wide margins - I'm using the text
editor "StoneAxe 1.0" and itsa lotta werk.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
At 08:36 PM 3/7/97 EST, you wrote:
Well, howdy there!
Someone on the fidonet echo "Holysmoke" saw your precious little
website and posted the address so we could all have a look. (You might
want to find yourself a BBS that carries it, if you enjoy gratuitously
inflammatory debate!)
He said he put his two cents' worth in your suggestion box, which
landed him a position on your neo-Nazi hit list. I'm quite jealous. I
seriously hope you'll consider adding my name as well. It's nice to know
that such an example of typical christian hatred and dishonesty can be
viewed by anyone who has a computer. This website is a far better weapon
against religious hysteria than anything a nonbeliever could dream up!
Doesn't it just drive you nuts that, regardless of how many
heretics and witches you try to burn at the stake, your christianic
death-cult is clearly on the way out, evolutionarily speaking? It must
feel like fire-ants in your shorts, having your superstition gradually,
inexorably exposed for the fraud that it is. You've painted yourselves
into an evolutionary corner from which there is no escape. Those of us
who are taking the inevitable strides toward human understanding of
nature have already encompassed more territory than you can ever win back
with any amount of shrill, hateful rhetoric. Scream and threaten until
you are blue in the face. The forthcoming extinction of supernatural
cults has been insured by natural processes whose existence has been
CONFIRMED by rigorous, skeptical, peer-reviewed science. Feel free to
screech at the top of your hysterical lungs; "nature careth not one
bit," to paraphrase Galileo.
I am particularly amused by the sanctimonious shrieks from the
folks who are quite inaccurately referred to as "pro-life." Their use of
brainwashing tactics in order to defile the subconscious minds of
innocent children is an ATROCITY (to use a favorite bible-thumper word)
which will soon be widely known for what it really is: pedophilic
death-cult abuse.
Feebleminded homophobic threats of future attacks committed by
the christianic neo-nazis make clear that such people have no idea who
they are threatening. When you folks decide to carry out your little war
on rationality, be apprised that many unpleasant surprises await. I'll
let you in on a little secret here, Sparky: the pinkos and heathens and
fag-sympathizers are your intellectual superiors. Abortion-clinic pipe-
bombings and attacks like those of that famous dead idiot John Salvi
are farts in a hurricane.
In closing, here's a nice quote from a famous christian:
"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior
as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness,
-------snippola-------
against those by whom today this poor people are plundered and
exploited."
Adolph Hitler, in a speech delivered April 12, 1922
Published in "My New Order"
Quoted in "Freethought Today" April 1990
Y'all have a nice day, now!
Sincerely,
Your Worst Nightmare.
(someone who can think) :)
From: Neal Horsley
I want thank you for so forthrightly revealing your point of view. I will
make sure your words are heard by my Sunday School class at Kansas Baptist
Church and of course by the people who reqularly visit the Hard Shell
Christian Gallery. Extinction, like death itself, is a difficult fate to
contemplate. But extinction is more frightening for materialists who find
their personal immortality in visions of their union with the "Whole."
I
must point out one clear fallacy in your analysis. You said, " The
forthcoming extinction of supernatural cults has been insured by natural
processes whose existence has been CONFIRMED by rigorous, skeptical,
peer-reviewed science." In order for your statement to be true, the
existence of the Being who contains within Himself the entire universe would
have to be dismissed as a theoretical possiblity by science. In order for
science to have accomplished such a dismissal, an expetition would have
to
have been mounted that scoured the ends of the universe and returned with
pictorial evidence proving the absence of the Creator. Such an expedition
has not been mounted. Nor, is one planned in your lifetime. Therefore
your
"CONFIRMED" by science idea is false. And you are misled by predicating
your analysis on that syllogism. A syllogism that begins with a false
premise is false no matter low logially accurate the other factors in the
syllogism. But of course you know all this don't you. Fact is, you are
not
interested about the truth, which is why you fabricate or pass on the
fabricated quote from "Hitler." How quickly you squander your credibility.
That's always been Satan's weakness. He simply cannot avoid lying. He
is,
after all, the father of lies. Liar, liar, pants (as well as all other
parts of your being soon to be) on fire. Unless you repent.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Should I try to talk him into getting set up as a point?
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Literally Seaking
|Date: 08 Mar 97 18:35:36
EID:c0f2 22689460
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3321b178
-> On 06 Mar 97 05:24:35, Jim Staal got back to Dan Ceppa
JS> Sorry. I am no scientist.
DC> That's quite obvious.
JS> And I thank God for that. Therefore, I _can_ have faith. My
JS> 'self-made' ego doesn't have to get in the way.
Wrong, Jimbo. It's your self-inflicted ignorance that
stands in your way.
... Creationism in schools? Sure. Right after Thermodynamics in church.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: All
|Sub: God's terrorists!
|Date: 08 Mar 97 20:28:48
EID:6985 2268a380
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3321cc00
-> On 06 Mar 97 15:23:19, Bryson Hughes got back to Jason Harmon
JH> You were put on trial by angels?
BH> Yes Jason I was. It was the most horrifying experience of my life.
Isn't it just great that god sends his angels out to terrorize
people?
... "Help! I've been abducted by god's gestapo angels!" Bryson Hughes
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: A toast to dracula
|Date: 08 Mar 97 20:50:21
EID:b51f 2268a640
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3321d10d
-> On 03 Mar 97 18:54:56, Rod Swift got back to Dan Ceppa
RS> * On 25-02-97 at 22:24, DAN CEPPA wrote to KEN YOUNG,
DC> "Sin" is a construct of your dogma. If you feel you are
DC> sinful, that's your problem, not Rod's.
RS> Amen, God Dan. I note I don't sin under your godly dominions and
RS> protection :)
It's a pity that the xians cannot see beyound the dogma that
they have in order to reconcile the one truth that their
"godling" gave them: The Golden Rule
However, as another poster noted, they even fucked that up
with their twisted wording of a truth that was old before
their religion got ahold of it.
... +Origin: ALTERCATION, NETWORK! Beating people up for Jesus!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: Accepting Reality
|Date: 08 Mar 97 20:55:42
EID:2e59 2268a6e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3321d24e
-> On 06 Mar 97 08:15:02, Ken Wiens got back to Jason Harmon
Gee, Kenny, you drop back in here after a long absence
and don't even take the time to say 'hi' to me.
KW> the Book of Mormon or the Koran are factual. Well, perhaps
KW> most of us. What can I say, I'm a FUNDY!!"
No, Kenny, you are a fucking fundy asshole, and I mean that
sincerely.
How many 12 year old rape victims did you execute during
your sabbatical?
... They were HOMOS! God was justified to kill them. per Ken Weins
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Alternative Or Straw
|Date: 08 Mar 97 20:59:42
EID:8071 2268a760
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3321d33e
-> On 06 Mar 97 00:07:00, Richard Smith got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> He has to. Everyone laughed at that and he's trying to
DC> rebuild what's left of it.
RS>
RS> It's ugly to see a man trying to compensate for a small
RS> penis.
Hmmmm, are you talking about Ragland or Staal?
... "Die and fry!" 1:1-24:18 All 432 lines of Gospel according to Staal
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Bryson Hughes
|Sub: asaity
|Date: 08 Mar 97 21:03:50
EID:2c5e 2268a860
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3321d436
-> On 06 Mar 97 15:05:35, Bryson Hughes got back to Dan Ceppa
BH> Nobody said anything about what the intelligence is going to do.
DC> You, OTOH, prey on those that don't have a modicum of intelligence.
DC> Makes it easier for you to pawn off you non-evidence as "evidence".
BH>
BH> Ad hominem seems to be a specialty around here.
What ad hominem? You have provided any evidence. You consistantly
avoid doing so.
BH> That is exactly what I'm going to do: Choose the time and place,
BH> choose the evidence, choose WHO I'm going to present it to. But as
Try it in the Barney Echo. However, I doubt even they would
believe it.
BH> get. But I probably won't be on that topic too much if I don't choose
BH> to be. I'll choose other topics.
You have too. After all, you don't have any evidence to back up
your claims on the current topic.
... Fundies are like farts. They all smoke, and leave a bad smell.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: Ceppa - Holographic
|Date: 08 Mar 97 21:09:12
EID:ce8d 2268a920
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3321d578
-> On 05 Mar 97 04:55:09, John Brawley got back to David Worrell
DW> DC>>> IOW, it in now an accurate comparison to your theory.
DW> JB>> The English major uses "your" instead of "you're,"
============================
DW> Subj : Ceppa - Holographic
DW> ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
DW> On 23 Feb 97, Dan Ceppa wrote:
DC> Your right. I should have said the the Moon is made out of
JB> .....****
JB> See this?
Yes, John, now he does. However, the first lines quoted above
are _all_ that you quoted when you took exception to my typo.
Whether you like it or not, your flack over my typo was because
you fucked up your original quote and forgot to include it.
... Eeny Meeny, Jelly Beanie, spirits are about to speak.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Educational Experienc
|Date: 08 Mar 97 21:12:32
EID:53fd 2268a980
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3321d640
-> On 03 Mar 97 10:36:04, Rod Swift got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> RS> thread. Mr Erudite never got it :) :) :) He in fact started
DC> RS> using it and spelling it the SAME WAY! *bwahahaha* :)
DC> So, what else is new? After all, he's the "English Major,
DC> 3,000 times or more demoted. :)
RS> But he's so error-dyte :) :)
Common, Rod! You missed a perfect pun: That should have
been "error-dyke".
... Jesus' last words: "Oh, SHIT, that fuckin' HURTS!" Hector Plasmic
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 08 Mar 97 21:21:03
EID:5fc8 2268aaa0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3321d83f
-> On 06 Mar 97 05:06:17, Jim Staal got back to Lynda Bustilloz
LB> Scriptural evidence in the Genesis account that immortality was the
LB> original plan, please?
JS> Well, the fact that death wasn't mentioned prior to the gig is one
JS> indication. The other is the 'tree of life':
Your really do enjoy debunking yourself in a single post,
don't you, Jimbo:
JS> (Gen 3:22 NIV) And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like
JS> one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out
JS> his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live
JS> forever."
What happens if you can't live forever, Jimbo? Think hard
and try exercising that single remaining neuron of yours.
While you are at it, explain the "like us" in the above
bible babbling.
JS> (Gen 3:24 NIV) After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side
JS> of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and
JS> forth to guard the way to the tree of life.
Now, explain where the east side of the garden is so that we can
all watch the sword flash. It would make a great tourist
attraction.
... "We win when you learn to think.": Kelsey Bjarnason
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 08 Mar 97 22:21:54
EID:6326 2268b2a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3321e682
-> On 06 Mar 97 05:18:59, Jim Staal got back to Fredric Rice
JS> KKK is no Christian organization. Do not confuse False Christian Scum
JS> [tm] with Christianity.
Just as we don't confuse you with what you are: True Xian Scum.
... God's baud rate is 0.
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: Moin Hallo Hi
|Date: 08 Mar 97 22:39:24
EID:bf23 2268b4e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3321ea9c
-> On 05 Mar 97 16:02:21, Karen Davis got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> contacted the State Education Department. Perhaps more
DC> on that after Monday, as I'll be speaking to their legal
DC> department. I got a bit of feedback from them on my
KD> Good choices.
It's getting better. I got a reply today from the
school councilor. Se has determined that "every day
to day activities" take precident over the part of the
decree that notes "MAJOR DECISIONS". It took over
10 days to get the reply back to me.
Her carbons where to the Principal, Superintendant and my
ex. Mine will be to the first 2 plus the State School
Commissioner and the Legal Department.
KD> Interestingly, as I mentioned on IRC yesterday, I stop being a teacher
KD> in 33 days.
Damn!
KD> I received a private sector job offer with an internet
KD> provider that I couldn't turn down.
I can understand that. I had my 9th grade math teacher take
the same route. What I can't understand is why those that
can teach can't make a decent living by doing what they can
do best. (Sorry, it's not my intention to give you a guilt
trip. It's just my view of this society.)
DC> BTW, how many days a year do kids go to school in your area?
KD> 180 or so here in CA. I'm not sure how that compares with elsewhere
in
KD> the US - I assume it's typical.
As it is, it's that very same figure. I messed with those days
and deterimined that school lasts for only eight months, with
all in that time frame weekends free. I don't remember that
much time off when I was in grade school. The summer vacation
started about the middle of June and ended just after the 1st
weekend in August. And, the only long break was between xmass and
New Years.
... I'm not bitter, I'm just pissed off at the lack of education.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Warring Christan Faction
|Date: 08 Mar 97 22:42:48
EID:eb6a 2268b540
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3321eb68
-> On 06 Mar 97 00:02:56, Richard Smith got back to Dan Ceppa
KW> So Bear's still ahead of Leo.
DR> Ursa Major or Ursa Minor?
DC> Andress.
RS> . . . undressed . . .
DC> She is far ahead of us, that's for sure! Something
DC> like making it a photo-tittle!
RS> Sorry I disrupted the pun thread. I was merely drooling a
RS> the thought . . .
I'd respond to that but you've got me thimkib of ot...
... Glodberg virsus detected. Hit head on keyboard (T/M?) or bAort?
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Websites Etc.
|Date: 09 Mar 97 00:14:13
EID:1ec3 226901c0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 332200d5
-> On 03 Mar 97 10:42:12, Rod Swift got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> RS> It's just with all that deity sex being gay, we thought you might
want
DC> RS> to reconsider being a deity, just for a bit :)
DC> I'm the God of a Different Color!
RS> Oh, invisibly pink? :)
Naww, that's my friend, Daisy, the Invisible Hippo.
DC> gave me a laugh! Then again, at least one of those Godessses
DC> is there when I need to talk, dance, or shoot darts.
RS> Is Freyr, the layer or slayer, among them?
Well, Pat brings her husband around every so often and his
name is Fred.
DC> 2: You became fundy and should have died.
RS> I never stopped questioning, I just removed that question due to
RS> the fact that the answer was self-evident :) :)
Talked to my Mom just a moment ago. Seems like I inherited
my questioning from my Dad.
And, yes, I'm very proud of it. After all, that's the
best thing that he ever taught me. (Though hitting a
baseball does come in second place, just behind the
tagline, of course!)
... The best baker and teacher I've known: Dad!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Darryl Gonzalez
|Sub: 10 foot high and rising!
|Date: 09 Mar 97 00:18:23
EID:8625 22690240
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 332201cf
-> On 04 Mar 97 21:51:00, Darryl Gonzalez got back to DAVID RICE
DG> admit to the occurrance of a global ice age, but you deny that a global
DG> flood could possibly have occurred. Tell me, David, what does ice turn
DG> to when it's heated? Is it not WATER?
Tell me, Darryl, Darryl and your other brother Darryl:
How much ice gets assimilated into the frozen ground and
returns directly to the water table?
... Bad news, Darryl. I sold your soul to the devil.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Darryl Gonzalez
|Sub: J.J. NEEDS TO BE
|Date: 09 Mar 97 00:21:04
EID:5f61 226902a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33220270
-> On 04 Mar 97 21:27:00, Darryl Gonzalez got back to Richard Smith
RS> the Bible? Oh, I forgot, you're ignoring those postings of
RS> scripture that I already made to this effect, aren't you?
DG> This is so laughable, it hardly deserves a response! Who are you to
DG> judge God, Richard?
Got evidnce of a god? We have a prosecutor and a defense
attorney at hand to take the son of a bitch to trial.
... "Christianity is not established by law." U.S. SUPREME COURT, 1860
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Damned fundies don't know their own theology
|Date: 09 Mar 97 20:07:49
EID:131c 2269a0e0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 1f6c9e8d
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 33218162
On (08 Mar 97) Ken Young babbled to Marilyn Burge...
MB> Saw a sign outside a pentecostal church yesterday that said
MB> God without Man
MB> is still God
MB> Man without God
MB> is Nothing!
MB> According to their own theology, that's a lie; if we are
MB> "nothing," why did their gawd love us so much he allowed
MB> his son to be sacrificed for our sakes?
KY> He loves us, but He does not need us. What for? So yes, He still
KY> would be God without us.
MB> I think I'll sit down an explain the Bible to some mis-
MB> begotten fundy preacher. He apparently needs a lesson.
KY> Have fun. Perhaps you'll learn something. :)
Fat chance. His marquee is wrong. Live with it.
I've yet to see the braindead fundy who can teach me how to
walk and chew gum at the same time, let alone teach me anything
of actual value.
MB> Damned fundies, anyway. Can't they get ANYTHING right?
KY> Damned? I thought it was you heathens that were damned? :)
you arrogant little cocksucker! You're the one who is damned --
damned to spend your life in self-imposed ignorance. Live with it.
... Christianity: A house of cards lacking a first floor.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Damned Shoes
|Date: 08 Mar 97 07:27:00
EID:92d6 22683b60
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ 1bab508e
DM> On the whole, this is another sad instance of what happens
DM> when people who don't speak English very well (like Koreans or
DM> fundies) attempt to come up with a brand name.
RS> LOL . . . yep, I was hoping for some extreme form of profanity
RS> or something, but this'll do.
I heard a representative of the company say that the namers had
been gone from the company for a year before the meaning of the
name was discovered. I suspect it wasn't ignorance and there is a
lot of not-so-smothered laughter emanating from somewhere as we
speak.
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: Sally Springett
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Al Debunks Applesauc
|Date: 09 Mar 97 14:54:00
EID:9806 226976c0
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ 9e5ae195
DM> OK, gang, let's hear the last name for Lady Mary ____
DM> ________, the 18th century Brit who introduced smallpox
DM> vaccination in her country, and who, when a younger woman at
DM> the theatre observed that her hands were dirty, had the
DM> delicious gall to reply, "That is nothing, my Dear, you ought
DM> to see my _feet_!"
Lady Mary Wortley Montague, of course. I went to Margaret Drabble
to check the spelling and learned there was a life in 1956 and
letters in the 60s. It's not THAT shaggy.
I'm no parvenu old fart; I'm the real thing.
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: SUE ALEXANDER
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 07 Mar 97 17:41:00
EID:226e 22678d20
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Sue Alexander to Jim Staal <=-
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Sue Alexander <=-
>>>RS> Never had a chick nor boinked one.
Me neither. Jesus must have been ugly as shit.
>>JS> He was never married. Why would one who never sinned
>>JS> have sex outside of marriage?
I wonder what "sex outside of marriage" has to do with
"sin." It seems like a very freaky belief.
>SA> Why was he never married, Jim? It was expected by
>SA> culture that everyone should be married by a certain
>SA> age, which he had long since passed.
The Bible implies that Jesus WAS married.
>JS> I could provide the scripture for you, Sue, but this
>JS> computer doesn't have my online bible[sic] on it, but,
>JS> it wasn't necessary that He[sic] have offspring...
What the fuck does "offspring" have to do with marriage?!
SA> OK... so Jesus did not need to "boink" a female. He
SA> did need to live within the culture at that time, as
SA> the bible states he was 30 years old when he started
SA> to actively preach. The culture (from what I understand)
SA> expected men to marry. Why did he not then marry, but
SA> not have "relations" with his wife?
Maybe Jesus was "confused" (i.e. homosexual). That still
would not prevent him from getting married. John 2 seems
to imply that the wedding taking place was Jesus'.
... "I believe in Jeshua bar Casper-the-Holy-Spook!" David Rice
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVID RAGLAND
|Sub: ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW
|Date: 07 Mar 97 17:49:00
EID:1b00 22678e20
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting David Ragland to Martin Goldberg <=-
Hi stupid shit.
>MG> OK... name this sceintific evidence. Where in the
>MG> field of molecular biology is there any evidence for
>MG> a creator.
DR> The evidence[sic] is right in front of you everytime
DR> you look through a microscope. Look at a cell. I mean
DR> look at it real close, Martin. And tell me that you
DR> really believe that it is an accident.
No one believes that a cell formed by "accident." If you
had any brain cells, you'd know this fact.
... A man with a gun is less dangerous than a man with a Bible and a gun.
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: CHARLES CREAGER
|Sub: Theft & Catholicism
|Date: 10 Mar 97 08:27:00
EID:c2c1 226a4360
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Your god is an asshole.
Thank you for your attention in this matter.
... "Oh shit!" -----(Jesus upon opening his fortune cookie @ last supper)
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: TOM HUBER
|Sub: Mormongate
|Date: 10 Mar 97 08:38:00
EID:c093 226a44c0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Tom Huber to Steve Quarrella
TH> I'm puzzled
To put it mildly....
TH> as to why your wishes haven't been honored (I know you
TH> don't know why), because the husband *is* the head of
TH> the house [...]
Only because the man is physically stronger and therefore
is able to dominate the rest of the household with threats,
violence, economic extortion, and rape. I.e. a typical
Christian family.
If Christian men were not prone to violence against women,
the family would be an equal partnership among peers (as
it should be).
... ([Sault of Tarsus] + [Epileptic Seizure]) = Christianity
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: Deluded Idiots!
|Date: 10 Mar 97 08:43:00
EID:d648 226a4560
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Bryson Hughes <=-
-> Bryson Hughes got back to Karl Schneider
>BH> Considering that what I experience was quite
>BH> terrifying early on, I would not wish it upon you.
>BH> It is a good gift and worth cherishing, but it
>BH> came with a terror. I remember the dread I felt
>BH> when I realized God[sic] is real after all. Then
>BH> when I was put on trial by angels, I just knew
>BH> I was cooked, if you know what I mean. But I
>BH> emerged a better man for it.
I remember the dread I felt when I realized that Santa
Claus is real after all. Then I knew I would be getting a
lump of coal in my stocking, and no presents under the
tree, because I had been naughy (not nice) all year! Oh,
the terror I felt! The terror! Mercifully, you have me
to warn you, so you need not face that terror yourself:
I would not wish this terror on anyone.
DC> If you thought that Jimb-ozo was nuts, this guy is
DC> certifiable!
It is rather like a half-dozen other folks. It still
does not rate as low as the agonized screams heard when
drilling too deeply underground. Or JFK taking over the
planet with Kissinger and Satan.
... ([Sault of Tarsus] + [Epileptic Seizure]) = Christianity
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAN CEPPA
|Sub: The Flock
|Date: 10 Mar 97 08:47:00
EID:1ea3 226a45e0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Martin Goldberg <=-
-> Martin Goldberg got back to Ken Young
>>KY> And no, currently I am church hunting..[sic]
>MG> What's the legal limit?
No fewer than five a year. Any fewer and Satan will
dock your pay.
DC> (looking into my crewel) Is there a size limit as well?
Yes. The cumulative I.Q. of the congregation must be
below 90. Unfortunatley, these are easy to find.
... "State lotteries are an official tax on stupidity." -- Robert Curry
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: JIM STAAL
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 10 Mar 97 09:06:00
EID:3256 226a48c0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Fredric Rice
JS> I have only one master: Jesus Christ, and He[sic] asks
JS> only that I love Him[sic] and keep His[sic] commandments.
Ah, you're into bedroom discipline. Poor Wilbur.
... Yeah... maybe 5 years from now, when she's 18. -- QF
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVE HAMILTON
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 10 Mar 97 09:08:00
EID:a8ac 226a4900
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Dave Hamilton to Jim Staal <=-
>JS> I think the recent revelations by Ron Fitzsimmons,
>JS> head of the Coalition of Abortion Practitioners
>JS> (his previous lie) makes any further arguement
>JS> moot. 3000-4000 a year, healthy fetuses, healthy
>JS> mothers.
DH> Where can I verify this?
Only in Jim's fevered imagination.
In a few hours I will be looking into the claim myself.
I'll post any results I find.
... "Sounds like a job for Cap't. Thorazine!" -- Marty Leipzig
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
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|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVID WORRELL
|Sub: In the news
|Date: 10 Mar 97 09:17:00
EID:93b1 226a4a20
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting David Worrell to Rod Swift <=-
> Rod Swift wrote to David Worrell:
>>DW> Fuck a trial. Just take 'em out in an open field,
>>DW> strap one of their bombs to them, and set the fucker
>>DW> off. My tax dollars can be put to better use -
>>DW> there's no need for a trial for terrorists. Only
>>DW> humans have the right to a trial by their peers.
The above sounds very George Bush-ish.
>RS> Please, can the partners of all the lesbians injured
>RS> in the Atlanta bombing press the button to detonate
>RS> it?
DW> Only if they can manage to take the detonator away
DW> from me.
Are you serious?
... Jesus can't perform tricks in front of skeptics (Matt 13:58 Mk 6:5-6)
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 09 Mar 97 00:09:38
EID:1948 22690120
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33224612
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3313e430
KY> Gays will go to Hell if they are not saved, and if you are
KY> gay, you cannot be saved.
RS> You claim that gays cannot be saved. Why do you attempt to? Are
RS> you admitting they have no free will because they cannot be saved?
RS> Is this a revision of your policy that they can change? Are you
RS> now admitting you were wrong, and they *cannot change* and *be
RS> saved*?
A gay can get saved, but if they get saved they cannot remain gay. They
will be changed by the power of God.
KY> Now, the difference is simply the difference
KY> between the person and one's
KY> actions. Just because I am against what a person does,
KY> does not mean I am against that person.
RS> But you said gays are unable to be saved. You also said you were
RS> talking about the sin, not the sinner. It's clear you are lying.
Gays are unable to be saved, simply because once saved they are no longer
homosexuals.
RS> Rod "...you should leave, now, while you still have a chance" Swift
:)
Nah.. How would you learn anything, then? :)
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: The Jesus was homosexual
|Date: 09 Mar 97 00:17:46
EID:9b54 22690220
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 332247fa
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3312f306
FR> rs> that he wants his queer love to live for a long time :)
FR> What's funny is that Christanics were unable to remove the
FR> exhibitions of homosexuality from their mythologies.
RS> Ken did so in one post to me just earlier. Claimed I was
RS> obsessive because i had the gall to defend my sexuality.
No, not because you were defending your sexuality. There have been times
when you mentioned it when homosexuality was not even the topic at hand.
And sure, that is fine, but there are those gays that make it the only thing
they seem to care about.
RS> Praise Jesus, and pass the condemnation.
RS> The fact is that religion is always used by anyone to gain power
RS> and this power leads to corruption, and this corruption to tyranny.
RS> And it is our job to be vigilant and to stop the abuses of our
RS> fellow humans by a small group of humans who'd rather use
RS> religion in a way more akin to Orwell's "Animal Farm"
RS> (politically) or 1984 (social order) than for benevolence.
Well, not all CHristians would do this. I sadly admit, some would like
to, as they go way too far with morality, but I doubt if the bulk of Christians
would be for tyranny just to try to stifle immorality.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 09 Mar 97 00:25:24
EID:1948 22690320
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 332249c4
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3312f87a
RS> I cannot believe he has YET to justify his assumptions that:
RS> 1) only one sexual orientation is the correct one
Because only one is natural and has a practical purpose.
RS> 2) that it is his sexual orientation if it is
Heterosexuality is that sexual preference that has a practical purpose to
it and is natural.
RS> 3) that everyone is "born straight"
If anyone is born with any sexual preference or orientation, heterosexuality
is it.
RS> 4) that gay people "choose".
There have been studies to suggest this.
And homosexuality is obviously a part of you, right? It is part of who
you are and what makes you, you. Well then, just as through other experiences
and choices, you decided what your personality would eventually grow into,
you also decided to be gay, the same way.
RS> He's not answered any one of the four with any scientific
RS> evidence, despite having scientific evidence TO THE CONTRARY
RS> being provided.
RS> He still spews the same shit, as if he were Laurie Appleton on
RS> Creationism/Evolutionism.
Funny, he always seems to make sense. Perhaps, you just aren't deep enough
to understand.
RS> You debunk him, and he just blinks and ignores the fact that he's
RS> been debunked. He just restates the allegation ignorantly.
RS> Rod "...maybe it's time to give him a reason to leave" Swift :)
Go ahead, try it.. It will just make me stay all the more.. I got bored
on other echos and nets, as there wasn't any more challenge.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 09 Mar 97 00:32:34
EID:f287 22690400
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33224b72
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3312fc08
KY> See, while some are conscience doing it, gays may subconsciously make
KY> the choice to be homosexual.
RS> The evidence is clear, however. If it were a subconsciously
RS> decided, it could be eliminated by therapy.
And who says it couldn't be. Now, I do not generally trust most therapy,
but there have been those to switch back to their normal selves.
RS> You are still debunked. Science has debunked you. Did you read
RS> that pamphlet I sent you? I can send you another copy if you
RS> like.
No thanks.. I read it, but I see enough propaganda these days..
RS> Rod "... and finally, seek help for your desire to attack gay
RS> people because you consider them easy targets. The fact that
RS> we care about your mental health is exhibited because we don't
RS> want to see you start to hate yourself for arguing lies and hence
RS> discovering your self deception, Ken.... Get help now, please!" Swift
:)
Attack? Certainly no more than you attack Christians for their religious
beliefs.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 09 Mar 97 00:35:38
EID:1948 22690460
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33224c2a
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3312fcbe
KY> DR> JOH 21:7 JOH 21:20
KY> So, saying that you love someone, has to be sexual?
RS> Homosexuality has nothing to do with sex. Homosexuality has
RS> everything to do with sexual orientation.
Oh, but it does- one's sexual feelings for one sex or the other.
Not necessarily the act, but what one person is sexually attracted to.
RS> We never claimed that. We claimed that Jesus was a homosexual --
RS> he was. It's clear. He loved a man. He's a man. It's love,
RS> it's homosexual. It's homosexual love.
It's love. But not homosexual love. If you love your family, is it the
same type of love as when you love your mate?
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Re: "True" Christian Dod
|Date: 09 Mar 97 00:39:14
EID:6542 226904e0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33224d02
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3312fcfc
KY> I will admit, when I first saw him, and he promoted that
KY> book, I did start seeing it that way. But now, I tend to
KY> believe a spiritual death was what was meant.
RS> Why did your belief change? The bible is the inerrant word of
RS> God. God commands you to kill faggots for him. Further, you are
RS> to stone them. Their death is on their heads.
My beliefs changed because I realized that if a non-Christian is killed,
he no longer has a chance to become saved.
But like I said, even if that was what was meant, that is no longer, as
we now have the grace of Christ.
Does it actually say one is supposed to physically kill gays? Not last
I checked..
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 09 Mar 97 00:43:56
EID:f287 22690560
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33224e1c
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3312ffd8
MB> KY> I think you just hit upon it. "Consciously" seems to be the
MB> KY> key. See, while some are conscience doing it, gays may
MB> KY> subconsciously make the choice to be homosexual. We make
MB> KY> choices all the time without realizing it. And throughout
MB> KY> your life, what happens to you, will also be a big factor in
MB> KY> the what choices you make.
MB> Gee. How does that explain the measurable differences in a gay
MB> man's corpus collosum?
RS> Shh. Don't confuse him with all that scientific "mumbo-jumbo"...
RS> he's trying to be, errr, ummm, theoretical :)
Well, get yourself ready to make some new taglines with this one.. Yes,
there may be physical differences between gays and heterosexuals. But it
is possible for people with their own mind power to change themselves physically.
This may sound bizarre, but it is definitely true that someone can physically
make themselves ill or well, by either willing it, or by a great deal of
stress. Therefore, it is possible for some to actually physically change
themselves when they start having unnatural feelings.
And if there is a difference, are you saying that there is something wrong
with gays?
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 09 Mar 97 00:48:10
EID:3d75 22690600
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33224f1a
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 331302ac
KY> Funnym I don't seem to recall being for some of that stuff.
KY> Yes, when gays kept it quiet, it was much better.
RS> Would you prefer us to shut up and wait an indeterminable time at
RS> the table of human rights for some piecemeal human rights scraps?
I do not mean if the topic comes up that yopu should remain silent, but
there is a healthy medium, and it is possible to go too far with being public
with your sexual orientation.
KY> They were still around, but who needs to advertise their sexual
KY> orientation?
RS> It would be nice if you were a bit more objective. "Advertise"?
Well, honestly, for good reason, you are not exactly "objective" either.
RS> You cruel and sick bastard for even suggesting that we should not
RS> be open, and honest, and affirming of our sexual orientation.
Not saying to never let it be known, just that one should set limits.
RS> I bet you'd be insulted if we told you to NEVER ever *flaunt*
RS> your religion EVER again. That's EXACTLY what you tell us to do.
I wasn't aware that religion and sexual orientation were the same thing.
RS> You are sick, Ken, you need help. Heed the words. The APA
RS> thinks *you're* the mentally unstable one who needs help to come
RS> to terms with HUMAN DIFFERENCE, Ken.
That's okay.. Just another group to be wrong.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 09 Mar 97 03:28:08
EID:3d75 22691b80
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33227498
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3313e4e8
MO> KY> Sorry to see that you consider them as
RS> inferiors. Perhaps you should
MO> KY> work on being more tolerant of others. :)
RS> I'm sorry you see gays as inferior, Ken. Perhaps you should work
RS> on being more tolerant towards others.
RS> Besides being more tolerant, being more understanding and
RS> KNOWLEDGEABLE of the people you see as inferior is mandatory in
RS> finding a solution for your illogical hatred.
Did I ever say that gays were inferior? No, they are just wrong as far
as morals and sexual orientation goes.
And do I really hate gay people? If I did, I think I'd be a bit more violent
to gays..
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: You won't believe this q
|Date: 09 Mar 97 03:31:32
EID:a058 22691be0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33227564
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3313e5dc
RS> But haven't you recanted that "theory" and now claim it's a
RS> subconscious choice (i.e. yet ANOTHER "theory" that has been
RS> debunked before, and I have now debunked thoroughly)?
No. Why is a subconscious choice any less of a choice than a conscious
one? You are still the one deciding things.
KY> Just one tiny bit of my brilliance that everyone should realize.
RS> The thing that everyone should realise is that you are a hateful
RS> idiot.
Wrong on both counts. Perhaps you are the idiot though, if you think I
am either an idiot or hateful. I love everyone, as a human being, even
if you cannot see that.
KY> Just because someone will have an unfortunate eternity,
KY> does not mean you love them any less.
RS> Oh, excuse me. I thought the bible says that you had no right to
RS> make such judgements. Then again, when you're a salad-bar
RS> Christian who can't even read and understand the bible, or that
RS> you flip-flop over Leviticus, what makes me want to believe you
RS> are a "true Christian" at all?
What judgement can't I make? That people will go to Hell. The Bible is
pretty plain about that, that non-believers will go to Hell. And if one
truly believes and accepts, then they aren't gay.
What makes me a Christian is that I believe the BASICS of the Bible.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 09 Mar 97 03:36:24
EID:3d75 22691c80
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33227688
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3313e694
KY> DW> Have you ever kissed your girlfriend/wife in public?
KY> DW> Have you ever held hands with her? Why did you feel the
KY> DW> need to advertise your sexual orientation like that?
KY> That IMO would not be promoting sexual orientation.
RS> ...except when homosexual people do it, right?
Nope.. Stop trying to find something to argue about when there's nothing.
That, even if I may not like it, would not be advertising one's sexual orientation
as I see it.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: You forgot to answer thi
|Date: 09 Mar 97 03:38:18
EID:7c49 22691cc0
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 332276fa
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3313e6d2
RS> fundy come and go during
KY> MB> my time here. I've even seen fundies 'converted' to agnosticism.
KY> MB> I've only seen one person 'converted' the other direction, and
he
KY> MB> went from secular Jew to practicing Jew -- hardly a direction you
KY> MB> would recommend, I'm sure.
KY> Nope.. Now, if they switched to Messianic Jew, on the
KY> other hand, that would be another story..
KY> And anyway, I am here now.. HolySmoke will never be the same. :)
RS> You'll leave soon enough :) You'll also whine on the way out
RS> claiming you weren't treated fairly, when in fact it is because
RS> you were writing out "reality cheques" that bounced when they
RS> entered reality and were examined by all and sundry :)
No, I have been here long enough to not expect to be treated fairly. Most
here seem to be fairly bigoted against Christianity, and I realize that,
and am still here.
But, you never know.. Enough time, and if I get another or two like me
on here, and I may have people like you running out afraid of a challenge.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 09 Mar 97 03:40:26
EID:f287 22691d00
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 3322777a
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3313f258
KY> FR> Everyone is born not believing in deity constructs,
KY> FR> Ken. Occultism and superstitious fear and hatred must
KY> FR> be ingrained in an individual before they start
KY> FR> believing in deity constructs.
KY> How do you know a baby doesn't have any belief in a god?
RS> Why do you claim that they do?
I didn't. I simply asked how do you know they don't? I brought it up
merely as a possibility.
RS> Most notably me. I only believe that the ones with a patriachal
RS> deity construct of love *and* hate could only be believed in by
RS> someone who wishes to claim that they love everyone, but in fact
RS> wish to only judge other humans.
Well, I cannot speak for all, but I for one do not judge by myself. But
if one goes against the fruits of the spirit, I have every right to judge.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Re: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 09 Mar 97 03:44:52
EID:3d75 22691d80
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33227884
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3313f478
KY> No to the first one, yes to the other two.. Just because
KY> some Christians killed people that supposedly were witches
KY> (most weren't, as it was all political), does not mean the
KY> whole Christian church would be for it.
RS> So it's ok to falsely accuse people of witchcraft and then to
RS> kill them? How wonderfully loving and Christian of you.
Again with putting words in my mouth, I see. I NEVER said that
it was right for anyone to do that.
KY> I see nothing wrong with saying that some are "godless
KY> communists." If they are, then they should be exposed.
RS> Exposed for what? Communism is a valid form of political
RS> ideology. Just because you don't believe in it does not mean you
RS> have the right to exterminate people based on political ideology.
I said they need to be exposed, not exterminated.
And exposed for their totalitarian ideas, so they do not become policy.
KY> Kids were a lot more educated back then.
RS> The reason why kids aren't well educated now is because of
RS> defunding of education. Not removal of superstition. In fact,
RS> with the removal of superstition, we could compare current
RS> education with education in the 1920s when creationism was
RS> instructed in the class...
Defunding of education? Are you serious? Not in America.. There is a
lot more funding for education all the time.
RS> ... We've improved a lot by banning religious instruction or
RS> education or ritual on school campuses.
Sure.. Higher illiteracy rates and lower test scores sure show that.
KY> But since we took prayer out of the schools, the students
KY> have been doing a lot worse.
RS> Any proof that proves a causal link between the two? I'd suggest
RS> that the defunding of education on a per-capita student basis is
RS> the real reason.
Well, seeing as it happened at the same time, if religion being kickced
out of American schools didn't make any difference, it was a beaut of a
coincidence.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: USA CompuCensor Law
|Date: 09 Mar 97 03:52:26
EID:10b7 22691e80
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33227a4a
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3313f5aa
KY> FR> Did they use TANKS, dear?
KY> A bit obsessive, aren't we? :) Oh, but that's right..
KY> You have a hard time moving onto something else..
RS> Do you care to give us your spin on Waco?
RS> After all, Christians love to spin-doctor.
RS> Rod "...go on... tell us!" Swift :)
I thought I got into this here, but if not, here goes:
Big surprise what I believe, as I am sure you have an idea, but yes, it
was a govt. plan to make an example out of Koresh to show the people they
can take freedom of religion and the right to bear arms away, and there
is nothing anyone can do about it. Fortunately, Waco more than anything
else, seems to have made many people start to wake up.
Would you like me to continue?
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Quentin Fai
|Sub: Re: ...
|Date: 09 Mar 97 03:56:08
EID:d659 22691f00
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33227b28
REPLY: 1:358/1 dec83abb
QF>> It wasn't *that* much of a sacrifice. He's still alive, after all.
KY> Uh, you try being crucified in that way, and see if you like it very
KY> much.
QF> Three hours would be an utterly insignificant amount of
QF> time to an immortal
QF> being.
But Jesus was not in an immortal form. You seem to forget, he came here
as a man.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Murderous Christians
|Date: 09 Mar 97 04:00:40
EID:8f36 22692000
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33227c38
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 3319b5b6
DR> the facts you you. You are just too goddamned stupid to
DR> accept the Truth.
ky> I have never denied that some that CLAIM to be Christian,
ky> have committed violent acts, but those acts would go so
ky> much against Christian beliefs that they could not be
ky> Christians.
RS> Yet you yourself have admitted that once a person is a
RS> Xtian, they are a Xtian for life. You refute yourself,
RS> Jelly.
No, I never said that. One may sin and still be a Christian, but if they
keep on with a sinful pattern, they will likely build a wall between them
and God and lose their salvation.
Also, if it was "once saved, always saved," then there could be no such
thing as a Christian turned atheist or Pagan.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Exemplifying examples 1/
|Date: 09 Mar 97 04:03:32
EID:cfa0 22692060
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33227ce4
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3313cdc6
RS> to force me to join them...
KY> If you are against Christianity, don't go to church.
RS> So I don't go... However, Christians *HAVE* attempted to force me
RS> to join their cult. This means I have a right of equal and
RS> opposite force against them for the preservation of my rights...
Really? Someone actually put a gun to your head, and tried to force you
into their church? How interesting.. If not, just what method did they
use to try to force you into what you so inaccurately call a "cult?"
RS> Christians also have attempted to threaten my civil and political
RS> rights. For this, I am deserved the right to defend myself, and
RS> to take action against them for their injustices. I exact this
RS> justice quite readily and easily, as you know :)
You also seem to assume that all born again Christians try to take away
your rights. Many would actually believe your rights should be kept. After
all, freedom is freedom.
KY> Nope.. Some psychology and so called scientific THEORIES
KY> disagree with me. No scientific fact disagrees with me at all.
RS> Psychology is a science, and hence disagrees with you. The
RS> scientific DATA disagrees with you.
AH, psychology is a science? Well then, are all in the field of psychology
to believed with their findings?
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ken Young
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 09 Mar 97 04:09:28
EID:b019 22692120
MSGID: 1:270/420.0 33227e48
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 3313d024
KY> DM> themselves to be carrying out their god's will by so doing.
KY> RS> And the bible even says that Ken has to kill a queer for Christ.
KY> RS> If he doesn't then he's a salad-bar Christian.
KY> Well, I am not sure it means that.
RS> Read Leviticus 20:13. Why should you have all the fun claiming I
RS> should follow the commandment contained in there, and you should
RS> not?
Because there are other places where homosexuality is forbidden.
Besides, I am not saying one shouldn't follow the scripture, just that maybe
people interpreted it wrong.
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Quentin Fai
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: Re: Blavatsky?
|Date: 08 Mar 97 19:23:24
EID:057e 22689ae0
PID: SX 4.4P CA-12680
MSGID: 1:358/1 c7a5cece
REPLY: 3:711/933 3320656b
TID: GE/32 1.2
AG> Instead of writing profanities and condemning good people ad truth
AG> you would do well to repent and seek the Lord while you may.
Fuck your petty little god, and the sheep he fucked to produce himself.
... IF God doesn't like how I live, let Him tell me, not YOU!
--- RA2.5/FD2.20/GEcho
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Baby in Critical Conditio
|Date: 09 Mar 97 11:48:07
EID:d509 22695e00
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 e1a448e9
On (04 Mar 97) Lynda Bustilloz wrote to JIM STAAL...
LB> Lynda and Jim were killing time yakking about Baby in Critical
LB> Conditio:
JS> Yeah, the Lovely Wilbur [tm] likes to read over my shoulder from time
JS> to time here, gets angry at what she terms the foolishness of the
JS> whole thing and walks away. :)
LB> Wilbur just wants to make sure you aren't talking to the wimmin!
JS> Yeah, well after 30 years she is a bit possessive, ya know. When you
JS> get a good man you don't want to lose same. :)
LB> She got a good man? Aren't you JEALOUS??
LB> Boy, break ONE little leg, and she takes advantage of the
LB> opportunity.....
LB> ;)
ARGH! LOL!
... Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry. (1 Cor 10:14)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Fundy Frolics 1/3
|Date: 09 Mar 97 11:48:33
EID:2fe7 22695e00
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 a71a1458
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 331f70f5
On (07 Mar 97) Dan Ceppa wrote to Jim Staal...
-> On 05 Mar 97 09:47:34, Jim Staal got back to ROBERT CURRY
RC> Children do not bear the sins of their parents. Ezekiel, chapter 18.
JS> Doesn't negate Rom 3:23. They do bear the sin of Adam.
DC> That's your founder, Saul speaking.
Yeah, it was my founder speaking through the Holy Spirit to Paul's pen.
... Every one of us shall give account of himself to God. (Rom 14:12)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 09 Mar 97 11:49:16
EID:52c1 22695e20
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 7e1f591f
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 331f72cc
On (07 Mar 97) Dan Ceppa wrote to Jim Staal...
-> On 04 Mar 97 05:56:25, Jim Staal got back to Rod Swift
RS> "the one he loved". If it is given Jesus loves us all, then a
RS> special mention about this very special relationship with a very
JS> BZZZT! WRONG! Jesus is God. God clearly does _not_ love everyone.
JS> (Rom 9:13 NIV) Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I
JS> hated."
DC> Thank you for pointing out that your omni-benevolent god
DC> isn't, Jimbo.
My God is not 'omni-benevolent'. Where do you get that idea?
... For me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. - Philippians 1:21
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 09 Mar 97 11:51:05
EID:52c1 22695e60
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 97bae4f3
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 331f738e
On (07 Mar 97) Dan Ceppa wrote to Jim Staal...
-> On 05 Mar 97 06:20:16, Jim Staal got back to Sue Alexander
SA> I understand) expected men to marry. Why did he not then marry, but
SA> not have "relations" with his wife?
JS> Very simple: He didn't marry because, as scripture points out many
JS> many times, the church is His bride. He didn't have offspring in order
DC> That's Saul's dogma that you follow, Jimbo.
This 'saul' you speak of didn't write the Book of Revelations.
DC> You keep forgetting
DC> about the "not change a dot or tittle" that was said by your
DC> godling. Is Saul more powerful than your golding?
This 'saul' you keep referring to didn't change the law.
... But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant. (1 Cor 14:38)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 09 Mar 97 11:56:28
EID:e6e3 22695f00
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 f4d8ec88
REPLY: 1:103/550.0 331f3f64
On (06 Mar 97) Ken Wiens wrote to Jim Staal...
-=> Jim complained of warm pie, cold coffee, and no paper to Marilyn <=
KW> For once I fully agree with one who does not profess to be a
KW> christian over against one who does. I find that very highly
KW> commendable that you worked at the Holiday Inn with a broken
KW> foot. I see no basis for a christian to beg if they are at all
KW> able to work.
Tsk. Ken, Ken, Ken. Do not confuse a tongue-in-cheek, obvious playful
response to someone's off the cuff remark as 'begging'. My several jobs
continue as they did before the accident. The only thing I would not be
able to do is my concert ministry. Other than two jweeks of not being
able to do my job as worship leader, (I was paid for one of them), my
other jobs continue I as am now able to access my computer. The crutch
stuff has made the nerve problem in my arm, but I continue, none the
less.
KW> I was laid off of a job I had for 8 years Nov. 18. The timing
KW> was rather odd. I had just come off of Workman's Comp due to
KW> carpal tunnel release surgery on both my hands during the
KW> summer.
Had the same problem (surgery did nothing to relieve the problem) after
28 years at the same job. (two years ago)
KW> But the company had gone thru two owners during the
KW> time I was out.
My company still had the same owners (my in-laws). After being off for
10 weeks during my recovery, I had been replaced by a guy 20 years my
junior (unskilled) and was told I was no longer welcome there.
KW> I've been looking for work actively since,
KW> sending out my resume to prospective employers, going for
KW> interviews, improving my computer skills.
I sent out over 4,000 mailouts and also established a Multi-Media
business, creating and publishing technical manuals for an
international electrical switch manufacturing firm based in South
Carolina.
KW> Heck, on top of
KW> this I've done odd jobs doing maintenance and upkeep on
KW> people's computers. There are so many people who buy
KW> computers who know next to nothing about them. I've
KW> even thought of becoming self-employed doing this kind
KW> of work.
I do the same thing. :) There are so many totally computer illiterates
out there who have a new Win95 based machine, but have no clue about
it. Or those who wish to upgrade and haven't any idea how or what to
do.
KW> But beg? No way. Not as long as I have any ability
KW> to make money on my own. I find that an undecidedly
KW> unchristian thing to do.
We agree. So...uh...cut me some slack, dude, and don't give a thought to
jumping on Judith's bandwagon getting down on Jim Staal, ok? :)
... Judge not according to appearance. - John 7:24
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: James Makes Things Up
|Date: 09 Mar 97 12:11:51
EID:1efe 22696160
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 5693aefa
On (06 Mar 97) DAVID RICE wrote to JIM STAAL...
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Marilyb Burge <=-
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Jim Staal <=-
DR> >>>MB> But I'm sure this is the exception, rather than the rule.
DR> >>JS> Nope.
>MB> Gimme numbers. I want REAL numbers from the Department of
>MB> Health, not some fundy number made up by somebody who is
>MB> hysterical about even one of the procedures.
JS> No prob: 3000-4000 late term, partial-birth abortions a
JS> year involving healthy mothers and healthy fetuses.
JS> Source: Ron Fitzsimmons, head of the Coalition of Abortion
JS> Practitioners I guess that should do it.
DR> Do you really expect people to take your word for it?! If so,
DR> you're even more ignorant than Appletoon.
Actually, Dave, (other than yourself) I could give a rat'z if they take
my word for it or not, but this is (and has been) easily proven. Check
news archives for Feb 24-26.
... But he that glorieth, let him glory in the lord. (2 Cor 10:17)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Fundy Frolics 1/3
|Date: 09 Mar 97 12:13:24
EID:7142 226961a0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 c583ad71
REPLY: 1:124/4115.221 7682fea4
On (07 Mar 97) Martin Goldberg wrote to Jim Staal...
MG> MG>> Babies are totally innocent. Why do any of them need to go
MG> MG>> to hell?
JS> None are innocent. All suffer the effects of original sin. Romans
JS> 3:23.
MG> It's christian attitude just like this that turn people from your
MG> loving and merciful god.
It is not an 'attitude'. It is a scriptural truth.
MG> Now, answer the question. Why do babies need to go to hell?
I havne't a clue. There are Christians (perhaps even a majority) who
don't believe it (or want to believe it. I don't 'want' ot believe it
myself because it seems so unfair) but I believe as did my father and
his father jbefore that, that that is what scripture clearly puts forth,
and I can't/won't argue with scripture.
... For now we live, if ye stand fast in the Lord. (1 The 3:8)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Baby in Critical Conditio
|Date: 09 Mar 97 12:17:35
EID:dce5 22696220
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 c6fe15ff
REPLY: 1:124/4115.221 76830bf1
On (07 Mar 97) Martin Goldberg wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> I do not judge the final 'reward' of anyone. It is not my job.
MG> You're dancing around the point. Let's make the question more
MG> specific. If you believe that someone is going to hell, you have
MG> judged them.
That is exactly correct. That is the basis of my response above. I have
been asked (even with tears) by someone very close to me on this echo to
proclaim jwhether or not I believed this person were condemned. I could
not (one reason was because I sincerely care for this person) because I
believe only God can do that, _and_ because I believe that if God hasj
chosen an individual for redemption, He will bring it about in the end.
'Once saved, always saved'.
MG> I do not tell you this because I think it's wrong. I tell you this
MG> because it is a chritian tenet not to judge.
Correct. However, we are given other exhortations, among which is:
(Gal 6:1 NIV) Brothers, if someone is caught in a sin, you who are
spiritual should restore him gently. But watch yourself, or you also
may be tempted.
and...
(1 Tim 5:8 NIV) If anyone does not provide for his relatives, and
especially for his immediate family, he has denied the faith and is
worse than an unbeliever.
and...
(1 Cor 5:13 NIV) God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man
from among you."
And many similar guidelines, plus:
(Mat 16:19 NIV) I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven;
whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you
loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
So there is an obvious responsibility to believers to use their
intellect in determining certain things.
MG> He is supposed to love the raper of
MG> his daughter.
Yes, I agree. There was however, a picture of a local man (and family)
in our paper in the courtroom as the details of his wife's murder
(mother of 4 small children) killed in a robbery (three times to the
head as she jpleaded for her life) for $70 in a local 7 Eleven store and
I looked at the man's face and cried and told Wilbur if that were me I
probably would have brought a plastic gun into court and killed the SOB
punk that did it. (she knew him) even though I knew it was wrong in
every thing I believe. S**t, Martin! We are still human!
(doesn't mean I actually would have done it, but those were my thoughts
at the time) The man just had this look of total inner pain...
... Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. (Rom 12:21)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 09 Mar 97 12:34:51
EID:9b0c 22696440
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 7b10acf3
REPLY: 1:124/4115.221 76830ecf
On (07 Mar 97) Martin Goldberg wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> Answer: I don't know what his beliefs are. Certainly his life is
JS> not patterned after the life of Christ.
MG> If they ask him the same question I just asked you, he will assure the
MG> world that he is a true christian, carrying out the will of god.
MG> Who or whatever is a true christian is a matter of great debate.
I agree. Only God really knows.
... Be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath. - James 1:19
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Literally Seaking
|Date: 09 Mar 97 12:35:21
EID:9386 22696460
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 1e39719d
REPLY: 1:124/4115.221 76831136
On (07 Mar 97) Martin Goldberg wrote to Jim Staal...
MG> MG>> If I may quote Hector loosely, "gods dunnit" is not a good
MG> MG>> answer. Let's look for some real answers instead of the ones
MG> MG>> that we wnat to be and have no data for.
JS> Sorry. I am no scientist. I realize that many things claimed are
JS> impossible without Divine intervention.
MG> So if you cannpt expalin it, you just leave it to "divine
MG> intervention"?
What else is there when there is no logical explanation?
MG> You are absolutely correct. You are no scientist.
No arguement here, Martin. :)
... Rejoice in the Lord always: and again I say, Rejoice. (Phi 4:4)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: You lose.
|Date: 09 Mar 97 12:36:25
EID:2c52 22696480
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 7c62aafd
REPLY: 1:124/4115.221 76831b9d
On (07 Mar 97) Martin Goldberg wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> Martin, the thing was front page news for several days last week.
JS> The guy is head of the 'abortioner's union', for crying out
JS> loud. I saw/heard his statement on CNN dozens of times. He
JS> stated he had lied in his earlier testimony because he was
JS> afraid that the facts would have swayed the legislation that
JS> was pending at that time.
MG> Will do.
Check news reports for Feb 24-26.
... But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only. - James 1:22
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Water and Flood.
|Date: 09 Mar 97 12:37:10
EID:ddea 226964a0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 bbcef847
REPLY: 1:124/4115.221 76832205
On (07 Mar 97) Martin Goldberg wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> sort of scientific point. I merely stated that the Bible
JS> mentions the other as well. Shucks, dude, the whole thing had
JS> to be a miracle. You know, a super-natural occurance. Only
JS> way it could have happened. Everybody knows that in mere
JS> nature, that much water couldn't exist...and by natural law,
JS> where could have it gone afterwards. It was a miracle!
MG> I think that Hecotr's Law has been obeeyd again, although we call this
MG> hector's Vicious circle.
MG> 1. Where is your evidence for a god.
MG> 2. The great flood.
MG> 3. The great flood could not have occured. It would require the
MG> supernatural plus there is no physical evidence.
MG> 4. It was a miracle.
MG> 5. Where is your evidence for miracles.
You get no argument here from me, Martin. I don't expect folks to
believe it if they haven't got faith in God. I may appear silly here in
this echo, but I am no fool. Even the faith has to come from God. Not
everybody can believe. Only those who receive faith. And those who ask
for it can receive it.
... I and my Father are one. - John 10:30
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: You Lose
|Date: 09 Mar 97 12:39:08
EID:899d 226964e0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 59ce3a7c
REPLY: 1:105/302.666 0730d639
On (08 Mar 97) Marilyn Burge wrote to Jim Staal...
MB> On (27 Feb 97) Jim Staal babbled to Marilyb Burge...
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Jim Staal <=-
JS> Source: Ron Fitzsimmons, head of the Coalition of Abortion
JS> Practitioners
JS> I guess that should do it.
MB> Now find the Department of Health statistics that corroborate
MB> there are even that many third-trimester abortions in the U.S.,
MB> and maybe we can confirm that Fitzsimmons wasn't sucked into
MB> the fundy camp.
Nah, not my job. Anything that is that big (Fitzsimmon's testimony that
he lied before Congress) is something that I don't have to prove.
... And if children,then heirs;heirs of God,and joint-heirs with Christ.(Rom
8:17)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Baby in Critical Conditio
|Date: 09 Mar 97 12:40:10
EID:7779 22696500
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 f1cba636
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 331e59e2
On (06 Mar 97) Ken Young wrote to Jim Staal...
JS> Two things here: a. I do not have 'gods'.