God Damned Fundies!
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: Alternative or Straw.
|Date: 09 Mar 97 14:55:12
EID:d6dc 226976e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33225ed0
* On 07-03-97 at 20:28, DAVE HAMILTON wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Alternative or Straw." in echo Holysmoke:
DH> RS> Will you purchase me and send me a copy of the Revised Quote
DH> RS> Book, and, if you have a copy around or can obtain one, a copy
of
DH> RS> the Original Quote Book.
DH> You can't buy it. You have to trade your brain for it. It's an implant.
Although that I agree with the general theory that ownership of
the book and the subsequent dogma requires one to salvage their
brain for one the size of a pea, you can purchase the book :)
Rod "...I wonder if he will purchase me one?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The First Amendment overrules The First Commandment!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 09 Mar 97 14:59:14
EID:ed89 22697760
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33225fc2
* On 07-03-97 at 09:58, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> :) :) Tell us about the "gooks", Jimson. :) :)
JS> You tell me, Giggles, you seem to know. I have never mentioned anything
JS> about 'gooks'.
No? So why, only two replies (and four minutes) after this message,
did you say:
===========================================================================
BBS: The Perth Omen
Date: 07-03-97 (10:02) Number: 2979
From: JIM STAAL Refer#: NONE
To: ROD SWIFT Recvd: YES
Subj: Ha! Conf: (16) Holysmoke
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
RS> You did use the word "gook". You've used "sombee". You've used
RS> "commie".
Yes, I have, but not in the context you have put them...
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
JS> RS> You use the word "gook" as a synonym for the languages and
JS> RS> peoples of Vietnam.
JS> Oh, I did, did I? And where was that?
Oh, are you stupid, Jimson? Someone pull the quote file on him!
You clearly used the term "gook" and were CRITICISED by me, and
Richard Smith, among others, for being a racist little shit. :)
Rod "... You're now an ignorant racist little shit" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Physicist: An atom's way of knowing about atoms!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 09 Mar 97 15:01:16
EID:ed89 22697820
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3322603c
* On 07-03-97 at 10:02, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> I'm sure Brother Fredric has some quaint reminders of your words
JS> RS> re: homophobia.
JS> Don't thinks so because they do not exist because I neither think nor
JS> speak concerning homophobia.
I do believe you don't think -- ever.
I do believe you have made comments about homosexuals that are
homophobic. Here's a few reminders.
I am condemning no one. The homosexual who sexually practices
his homosexuality condemns himself." - Jim Staal
"I have less tolerance for pagan women because they seem
to particularly lack respect for men and thereby depart
from God even further than do pagan men." - Jim Staal
I must say you must live on a pink cloud to have let yourself been
deluded by these women. Their general purpose here has been clear to
me from the beginning: they hate men in general, and Christian men
in particular. - Jim Staal (Promise Keeper) HolySmoke, December 1996
...there is no life on other planets. If there were, the Bible
would have mentioned it. - Jim Staal (he's serious, by the way)
I reiterate what Fred said about you back on January 15, 1997:
Bathroom Staal continues to be one of the most evil and
filthy participants ever to grace us with his lunacy.
Rod "...We love you though, Jim, and want to help you get over
your hate so that you may learn to love everyone!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * "Bones! That, feels, wonderful, yes!" "It's head, Jim!"
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 09 Mar 97 15:03:18
EID:ff08 22697860
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332260b6
* On 07-03-97 at 10:01, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "jesus needed..." in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> You have quite an imagination, giggle-boy. No mention of any 'gay-lover'
JS> JS> in John or anywhere else.
JS> RS> Oh, so who was the disciple he loved?
JS> His name was John. You have something against love?
Why was this disciple mentioned as the one "Jesus loved" in
particular, given Jesus supposedly loves us all? Why the
exemplification of this particular disciple?
And what does it say in the ORIGINAL language? Does it describe
a particularly catamitic relationship perchance? :) :)
JS> RS> Is this more of your biblical-denialism, like that of Leviticus
20?
JS> I don't deny the existance of Lev 20.
Yes you do. You deny that it applies to you, though you apply it
freely to others. Start killing faggots, Jimson, or suffer the
penalties contained at the end of Leviticus 20!
Rod "...either start doing like a Christian, or stop claiming to
be one" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Martyrdom: The only way someone becomes famous -- Shaw
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Baby in Critical Conditi
|Date: 09 Mar 97 15:04:20
EID:6469 22697880
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332260f4
* On 07-03-97 at 10:03, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Baby in Critical Conditi" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> Yeah, the Lovely Wilbur [tm] likes to read over my shoulder from
time
JS> JS> to time here, gets angry at what she terms the foolishness of the
whole
JS> JS> thing and walks away. :)
JS> RS> She's just jealous that you find me more attractive than her...
JS> Nah, she is more attractive than you.
Your mouth says one thing, but the aching of your desire tells me
something else, Jim :) :)
You want it :)
JS> RS> Rod "...I love you Jim!" Swift :)
JS> Well, thankyou, Rod. Now if you could just demonstrate this a bit in
JS> the echo...
I do all the time, so, now you can bend over :)
Rod "...I love you Jim. We all do. We want to help you out of
your sick and degenerate life/death-style" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * ...Pro-life? Then what are you doing about TOBACCO?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: You *didn't* answer this
|Date: 09 Mar 97 15:09:22
EID:093a 22697920
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33226222
* On 07-03-97 at 10:04, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "You *didn't* answer this" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> It was a sarcastic response to your claim that Christian domestic
JS> RS> terrorism does NOT exist in the US, despite such cases as the
JS> RS> Brookline abortion clinic massacre, the reign of terror of Paul
JS> RS> Hill, the abortion clinic bombing in Atlanta, the bombing of the
JS> RS> Atlanta lesbian nightclub, the arson attack against gay and
JS> RS> lesbian establishments in Oklahoma and Arizona, etc, etc, etc.
JS> RS> No, these people all are non-Christian people who are actively
JS> RS> professing love for their fellow humans because they have
JS> RS> tolerance, rather than being domestic Christian terrorists.
JS> No these people all are non-Christian people who are actively
JS> demonstrating their hatred towards things they are not able to tolerate.
Evidence that they are non-Christian?
Oh, I thought so. Jim says so, so it must be. How about that!
Didn't they practice these acts of terror in the name of their
belief, and under the belief that their actions were holy?
Paul Hill was extolled as being a PATRIOT by many pastors in
their PULPITS right around the US. Aren't they Christian people?
JS> RS> Rod "...I offer you the chance, yet again, to answer the
JS> RS> question -- does Christian domestic terrorism exist in the US?
JS> No, it does not.
Evidence to disprove the examples that I have given? Don't just
make a claim that they are not Christians. Please demonstrate
why they are not.
JS> RS> What are you doing about it to stop it?" Swift :)
JS> It doesn't exist, therefore I am doing nothing. I do hope, however,
JS> that the perpetrators of all of the above are caught and punished
JS> severely.
So the acts didn't happen now? You are the one that claims they
are not Christians, or are false Christians. What are you doing
to deny their Christianity publicly? Where is your condemnation
of anyone who claims to be a Christian practicing such acts?
Further, where is your public education to stop these events
happening again by telling all that Christians should not be
terrorists?
Your Christian brothers expouse that these men are "Christian
Heroes". What are you doing to debunk and expose these preachers
as being hateful?
Rod "...you are doing *fuck all* to solve the problem, Jim.
You'd rather sit on your hands and say nothing, rather than
expose Pharisees. You are a joke for doing so." Swift
* OLX 2.1 TD * Politics: Poly=many, Ticks=blood-sucking parasites
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Book Theft
|Date: 09 Mar 97 15:24:24
EID:131c 22697b00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332265a8
* On 07-03-97 at 10:07, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Book Theft" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> Question: which 'half' of the population are you refering to?
JS> RS> A man is eliminated from being able to choose from half the
JS> RS> population merely because he is discriminated based upon the sex
JS> RS> of the prospective spouse.
JS> RS> Women are similarly burdened with a deliberate discrimination
JS> RS> whereby the state automatically mandates that half the population
JS> RS> CANNOT enter into a legally-binding marriage/spousal contract.
JS> Are you trying to put across that you believe half the population is
JS> gay? I look at you and laugh!
How typical for someone so erudite as you to not be able to read
a sentence and comprehend it. Some remedial comprehension is
required for you.
But so that Jimson "4th-grader" Staal can understand, Mr Cubby
will put it in really small words so you can possibly comprehend
it:
The government automatically excludes any person from
choosing a spouse from half the population. You, I, all
of us are denied the opportunity and *freedom* to choose
to marry someone from the approx. 50% of the population
who may just happen to be of the same gender.
This is discrimination. Further, this discrimination has
been proven to have no legitimate legislative end, and
further, in *two* jurisdictions now, is discriminatory on
the basis of sex.
If the state cannot prove a compelling reason to
discriminate, it must stop doing so. If it can, it must
write the laws so that the law allows as many people the
freedoms to marry that they wish, and only discriminates
where proven compelling and necessary.
The compelling state interest requirement normally means
that the state has an interest in overriding personal
freedoms that is unique and fundamentally important,
such as the physical defense of the state from foreign
attacks, the defense of the economic system of the
state, and other such overwhelming and fundamental
state interests.
Denying any man the right to marry any other man (or
denying a woman the right to marry any other woman) has
been found to be unjust, as there is no compelling state
interest that requires their freedoms to be quashed in
favour of the compelling state interest.
This is the basis of the case Baehr v Lewin (HI Supreme
Court, May 1993) and Baehr v Miike (HI 1st Circuit Court of
Appeals, December 1996) which was where the case was
remanded to be heard again to see if the state had any
compelling state interest.
The state claimed that the compelling state interest was
"parenting" and "childrearing" and that the optimal
environment for raising a child was with the biological
mother and father.
If this was a compelling state interest, the laws would
have to be amended to allow for anyone to marry anyone
else of any gender still. It would also allow the state
to invalidate any marriage where a partner in the
marriage had a child, and the married partners were not
the biological parents of the child.
Further, if the compelling interest were true, the state
would disallow single parents the right to remarry until
their child had reached the age of self-determination.
After all, they claimed child raising was a state
interest so compelling that it should override personal
freedoms.
Of course, it was not found to be a compelling state
interest.
The case is now on appeal back to the Hawaii Supreme
Court. The state cannot appeal the finding that the
law is sex discriminatory. The state cannot appeal the
finding that they have the burden of proof to prove that
there is a compelling state interest. Nor can they
appeal the need to provide a compelling (rather than
rational) state interest.
The only thing they can appeal is that the lower court
judge in December 1996 "got it wrong". I think you will
find that the appeal will fail, given that the burden
of proof was on the state, the state's witnesses all
DISAGREED with the state, and hence their side faltered.
And if the state just happens to win, well, we start a case in
yet ANOTHER state with an ERA amendment to their constitution,
and cite Baehr v Lewin as a citation.
There are many more ERA states :) California will probably be
the second state challenged if Hawaii fails.
Rod "...there, now, if you want to read both the Supreme Court
and lower court ruling, I can provide them." Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * As Piglet psychosexually said, "Bounce on me too Tigger!"
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: You *didn't* answer this
|Date: 09 Mar 97 15:33:26
EID:093a 22697c20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332267c6
* On 07-03-97 at 10:08, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "You *didn't* answer this" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> Evidence???
JS> RS> I've provided the evidence for US domestic Christian terrorism.
JS> RS> You are the one refuting it. You provide YOUR evidence to
JS> RS> disprove mine CONCLUSIVELY.
JS> I have seen no evidence of Christian terrorism. A True Christian [tm]
JS> would not do such things.
But they claim to be Christians? What are you doing to expose
these claimants to Christianity prior to their abuses? What are
you doing inside the Christian faith to remove and debunk such
critters?
The claim stands. You have failed to prove that they are NOT
Christians.
JS> RS> Please prove that Paul Hill didn't kill abortion doctors because
JS> RS> of his religious extremist beliefs, in an act of terrorism to
JS> RS> terrorise those involved with abortion.
JS> He might have, but that doesn't make it 'Christian terrorism'.
Why doesn't it? Because you claim so? He is a Christian, he
claims so. Pastors around the country claim he's a hero and a
true believer and that his actions were biblical.
What do you say to that? What are you doing to expose these
people?
JS> RS> Please provide the proof that John Salvi didn't shoot up places
JS> RS> in Brookline due to his religious beliefs, in an act of
JS> RS> horrendous terrorism against US citizens.
JS> He might have, but that doesn't make it 'Christian terrorism'.
He was a church-goer. He believes that Jesus Christ died for his
sins, and to save him. He professes that he's a follower of
Christ. Your bible claims that such a person is a Christian.
Just because he sinned and murdered a few people, doesn't
invalidate the fact he's a Christian.
You Christians claim that when someone murders, yet claims Christ
as their saviour, that they have been "converted". Why don't you
claim that such people are Christians if they get converted
*then* kill?
JS> RS> I have more examples of Christian domestic terrorism, should you
JS> RS> wish to try and disprove them. What about the terrorism of
JS> RS> the lesbian and gay community of Atlanta in the past THREE WEEKS,
JS> RS> Jim?
JS> Evidence that this was anything but an act against a particular
JS> individual? Or perhaps (as is being suggested) an act against the
JS> police?
It was an act against patrons of a gay nightclub, Jimson. You
know that. You claim to follow the news. The second bomb that
was found was aimed to attack rescue workers.
The same modus operandi was used in the abortion clinic bombings
in Atlanta. The first to kill and terrorise people at the
clinic. The second (which did detonate) to try and kill and
terrorise the rescue workers.
What cowardly Christians, to not only attempt to exact justice
(in the name of Jesus) against sinners, but against the innocent
rescue workers.
JS> RS> Are you such a moron that you can't even see these occurences are
JS> RS> religiously motivated?
JS> What has this to do with Christianity?
All the perpetrators are Christians. They were Christians prior
to the acts (they claimed that they loved Jesus with all their
heart and that Jesus died for their sins -- your bible says
that's what a Christian is), they were Christians during the
acts, and Christians after the acts.
They targetted individuals and groups of people based on the fact
that the groups they targetted were enemies of the Christian
right in the United States.
They performed domestic, Christian-inspired terrorism against
enemies of US Christianity.
It was Christian domestic terrorism.
Your unevidenced denials do not invalidate this reality and fact.
Rod "...so keep whining and keep trying to claim that they're
*false* Christians, but be warned that you are claiming the
powers of your God to do that, because only your God knows who
the Christians *really* are" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * "Bones! That, feels, wonderful, yes!" "It's head, Jim!"
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 09 Mar 97 15:42:28
EID:3b03 22697d40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332269e4
* On 07-03-97 at 10:12, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> Look around you. The evidence is plain. (Rom 1:19 NIV) since what
may
JS> JS> be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain
to
JS> JS> them.
JS> RS> This is circular logic. Fallacious, and hence invalidated.
JS> Only to those blinded by Satan.
No. All those who have studied a basic course in argumentative
logic will understand the illogicies of a claim that something is
true by self evidence or circular evidence.
Please independently prove your bible, and every word, as being
true, and then we may take the bible as a proof of God as being a
true premise, rather than an opinion.
You cannot, as you are trying, use the bible to prove God, and
then use God to prove the bible. This is a fallacial argument
due to the circularity of it and the lack of independent proof.
Here's another example: Star Goat exists, because the Holy Book
of Fred says so. And we know the Holy Book of Fred is the truth,
because Fred was inspired by the everpowerful and loving Star
Goat. Hence, Star Goat exists and is real and is godly!
JS> JS> (Rom 1:20 NIV) For since the creation of the world God's invisible
JS> JS> qualities--his eternal power and divine nature--have been clearly
seen,
JS> JS> being understood from what has been made, so that men are without
JS> JS> excuse.
JS> RS> This is circular logic. Fallacious, and hence invalidated.
JS> Only to those blinded by Satan.
No. All those who have studied a basic course in argumentative
logic will understand the illogicies of a claim that something is
true by self evidence or circular evidence.
Please independently prove your bible, and every word, as being
true, and then we may take the bible as a proof of God as being a
true premise, rather than an opinion.
You cannot, as you are trying, use the bible to prove God, and
then use God to prove the bible. This is a fallacial argument
due to the circularity of it and the lack of independent proof.
Here's another example: Star Goat exists, because the Holy Book
of Fred says so. And we know the Holy Book of Fred is the truth,
because Fred was inspired by the everpowerful and loving Star
Goat. Hence, Star Goat exists and is real and is godly!
JS> JS> JS> What people do behind closed doors is, in my opinion, their
biz. But
JS> JS> JS> to take what is declared wrong and say openly that
JS> JS> JS> it is right, I can't
JS> JS> JS> agree with.
JS> JS> CH> Declared wrong by whom?
JS> JS> God.
JS> RS> And in what place does God belong in a secular state's laws?
JS> This is not relevant. We were discussing my opinion.
No we weren't. We were discussing US secularly-written and
administered laws. You conveniently chopped it out, as usual. I
asked you what right Christians had to write laws to outlaw
homosexuals, and that such laws should be removed, you responded above:
JS> What people do behind closed doors is, in my opinion,
JS> their biz. But to take what is declared wrong and
JS> say openly it is right, I can't agree with.
You clearly stated that homosexuals having sex is none of your
business, but you claimed that removing laws against them would
be saying openly that homosexuality is OK, and hence you
disagreed with removing the laws.
I cannot believe you are this disingenuous, Jimson. Once again,
your lies come back to haunt you.
JS> JS> CH> And based on what standard?
JS> JS> God's
JS> RS> And in what place does God belong in a secular state's laws?
JS> See above response.
See above response. I restate -- why do you think that your
God's laws should be reflected in the laws? What right do you
claim to wish to keep and enforce sodomy laws?
JS> JS> CH> Pretty hard to get
JS> JS> CH> an atheist to take that book seriously.
JS> JS> I don't believe there are any. Just those afraid to admit His existance
JS> JS> to salve there own consciences.
JS> RS> Evidence to prove that every person who does not believe in your
JS> RS> God or *any* god are "afraid to admit His existence"?
JS> Look in the mirror and see all the evidence you need.
Firstly, your answer is wrong. Secondly, you failed to provide
any tangible, independent evidence to show that each and everyone
who does not believe in YOUR particular God is "afraid to admit
His existence"...
I offer you the chance to again put up some wacky theory and make
some benign and ignorant claim, thereby proving how stupid you
really are :) :)
Ironic really. When Jimson was asked about Christian domestic
terrorism, he claims that the perpetrators aren't *real*
Christians. I wonder... If I asked some other Christians if Jim
was a real Christian with his hateful views, I wonder if they'd
deny him being a *real* Christian?
Rod "...you're a moron Jim, but we all love you!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Yogi Bear was a nudist buddhist
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: You Lose
|Date: 09 Mar 97 15:50:30
EID:8496 22697e40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33226bc6
* On 07-03-97 at 10:15, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "You Lose" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> No prob: 3000-4000 late term, partial-birth abortions a year
JS> JS> involving healthy mothers and healthy fetuses.
JS> JS> Source: Ron Fitzsimmons, head of the Coalition of Abortion Practitioners
JS> JS> I guess that should do it.
JS> RS> The newsbyte I saw on NBC was about 3000, of which a small number
JS> RS> had a healthy foetus *AND* a healthy mother. The overwhelming
JS> RS> majority of cases were the foetus being terribly malformed or the
JS> RS> mother's life and health being of utmost concern or BOTH.
JS> Sorry dude. I saw the man say it and his top figure was 4000.
I saw the man say it, and he said about 3000 on NBC Nightly News.
It is nice to know that you now admit that you did misquote the
guy and claim that ALL (and I'll use your 3000-4000 figure) of
them were "healthy foetuses in healthy mothers"...
It's nice to know you now admit I was right in correcting you and
stating that Mr Fitzsimmons claimed that only the *number* that
he had testified about was wrong, but the situations under which
each of these 3000-4000 (if we use your claimed figure) was
undeniably unviable foetuses or life-threatening to the mother.
BTW, I just want to remind you of something you once said,
Jimson, and why you are now no longer following it.
Back in late July, or early August 1996, you said:
___--------------------------------------------------------------------------
* On 09-08-96 at 12:26, JASON HARMON wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Re: My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Richard Smith <=-
JH> JS> Folks gotta right to do to themselves what they want as long as
it
JH> JS> affects me in no way whatsoever...
JH> Remember this folks.....
___--------------------------------------------------------------------------
So, in the issue of abortion, do you think that (and I've put the
explanations in brackets):
"Folks (women) gotta right (have a right) to do to
themselves what they want (to choose abort a foetus)
as long as it affects me in no way whatsoever (as
long as it does not affect Jim Staal whatsoever)".
That is, do you think that:
"Women have a right to choose to abort a foetus as
long as it does not affect Jim Staal whatsoever"?
Please, do answer honestly if you support a woman's right to
choose, especially given your broad statement of 6 months ago
that you support individual freedoms and liberties.
Rod "...yet again, your messages come back to haunt you" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't just do something!!! Stand there!!!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: Freedom of choice
|Date: 09 Mar 97 15:57:34
EID:f3e8 22697f20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33226d6e
* On 04-03-97 at 05:07, KAREN DAVIS wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Freedom of choice" in echo Holysmoke:
KD> On (21 Feb 97) Ken Young wrote to Rod Swift...
KD> KY> I would say that you should be what you were made to be. If you
were
KD> KY> created white, stay that way. If you were made male, stay that
way.
KD> KY> And if you were made heterosexual, as we all were, stay that way.
KD> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
KD> That's where you fall, Ken. You have no evidence that heterosexuality
is
KD> anything more than simply common.
Reminds me of that cute tag line for when they say that
heterosexuality is normal (i.e. correct):
"Heterosexuality isn't normal, it's just common"
Rod "...fun, eh?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * ...Pro-life? Then GET ONE and STAY THE FUCK OUT OF MINE!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 09 Mar 97 15:59:36
EID:1388 22697f60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33226de8
* On 07-03-97 at 01:43, DAN CEPPA wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "jesus needed..." in echo Holysmoke:
DC> RS> "the one he loved". If it is given Jesus loves us all, then a
DC> RS> special mention about this very special relationship with a very
DC> JS> BZZZT! WRONG! Jesus is God. God clearly does _not_ love everyone.
DC> JS> (Rom 9:13 NIV) Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau
I
DC> JS> hated."
DC> Thank you for pointing out that your omni-benevolent god
DC> isn't, Jimbo. You should feel proud that you showed your
DC> god to be a bigot and a fucking son of a bitch.
Isn't it amazing how they flip-flop and go from "God is love" to
"God is hate" when required. :) :) All you need to do is know
which buttons to press or which string to pull :) :)
Hey, read my post to him where I sink his abortion argument by
claiming that he's now practicing hypocrisy based on what he
wrote 6 months ago :) :)
Rod "...praise Jesus!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Christians wanted, apply at Perth Zoo's lion cage
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Staal stinks a little lo
|Date: 09 Mar 97 16:01:38
EID:6eb2 22698020
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33226e62
* On 07-03-97 at 02:01, DAN CEPPA wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Staal stinks a little low" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> RS> FLORIDA -- State court removed child from lesbian
DC> RS> mother and gave custody to father. Father
DC> RS> is a convicted wife-beater and murderer.
DC> JS> Would that seem to say that a wife-beater and murderer is a better
DC> JS> role model than a lesbian???
DC> Just when I thought you couldn't sink lower than the bottom
DC> of the cesspool, you dig yourself a deeper hole.
DC> You are one big piece of shit, Staal.
The fact that he didn't answer some of the more horrendous
Christian acts of terrorism against the rights of gay people was
even more appealing than this case of bigoted intolerance.
I asked him plainly that if he had a choice of two day care
centre employees -- one a gentle, loving and kind lesbian and
one a male convicted wife beater, child beater and murderer -- which
would he choose to look after his kid.
I'm still waiting for his hypocritical response.
Rod "... you have yet another chance to answer, Jimson!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Any closet is a walk-in closet if you try hard enough
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Staal stinks a little lo
|Date: 09 Mar 97 16:01:40
EID:b5dd 22698020
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33226e64
* On 07-03-97 at 02:01, DAN CEPPA wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Staal stinks a little low" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> RS> FLORIDA -- State court removed child from lesbian
DC> RS> mother and gave custody to father. Father
DC> RS> is a convicted wife-beater and murderer.
DC> JS> Would that seem to say that a wife-beater and murderer is a better
DC> JS> role model than a lesbian???
DC> Just when I thought you couldn't sink lower than the bottom
DC> of the cesspool, you dig yourself a deeper hole.
DC> You are one big piece of shit, Staal.
The fact that he didn't answer some of the more horrendous
Christian acts of terrorism against the rights of gay people was
even more appealing than this case of bigoted intolerance.
I asked him plainly that if he had a choice of two day care
centre employees -- one a gentle, loving and kind lesbian and
one a male convicted wife beater, child beater and murderer -- which
would he choose to look after his kid.
I'm still waiting for his hypocritical response.
Rod "... you have yet another chance to answer, Jimson!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Any closet is a walk-in closet if you try hard enough
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Well, women?
|Date: 09 Mar 97 16:02:42
EID:6f47 22698040
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33226ea2
* On 06-03-97 at 09:07, RICHARD SMITH wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "Well, women?" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> JS> No, you just have this 'Fred Rice' based bug in
RS> JS> your butt about PK and have decided to pick on
RS> JS> me for it. So pick away...
RS> Have you been putting objects in Staalin's ass again? You
RS> know the rule: how can we make him go away if we keep
RS> feeding him!
ROTFL! I wonder if Jimson enjoyed it?!?! :) :)
Rod "...praise Jesus, and get thee behind Jimson" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Homophobia: the fear obvious to all but the homophobe!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Let the Count Begin!
|Date: 09 Mar 97 16:03:44
EID:251c 22698060
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33226ee0
* On 06-03-97 at 09:13, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Let the Count Begin!" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> RodS> Of course not, simpleton.
RS> js> I find it quite amusing that a giggly little girl such
RS> RodS> ------------------
RS> js> as yourself would call one such as I 'simpleton'. LOL!
RS> RodS> I find it amusing that you make the stereotypical
RS> RodS> assumption that "gay men" are synonymous with
RS> RodS> "effeminate men".
RS> js> Not at all. Effeminate men aren't necessarily gay
RS> js> either. (I have a good freind who is wonderfully
RS> js> effeminate and definitely _not_ gay) I called you that
RS> js> because in most of the posts from you in the past (and
RS> js> your channel utterings) even the most cutting attacks
RS> js> have a smiley faced suffix.
RS> Okay everyone, let's have an emoticon watch on Jimson for
RS> the next thirty days. If he uses any emoticon, following
RS> his reasoning [sic] here, he's a giggly little girl.
:) :) He doesn't realise my smileys are evil ones. I smile
every time I reply to him because I know I'm supplying another
gallon of paint to him so he can paint himself into a corner :)
:)
Smiley watch on!
RS> ... It is hard for thee to suck too many pricks. -- JS 1:10
Oh my, does he like to suck pricks :) :) That's our Jimson!
Rod "...hehehehee" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves, passes to Moses. He shoots. He scores!!!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Little Girly Staalin #1
|Date: 09 Mar 97 16:04:46
EID:7a75 22698080
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33226f1e
* On 06-03-97 at 09:18, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Little Girly Staalin #1" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> js> scary thought. :)
RS> Well, here's the first indication of Staalin's girlyhood.
RS> ... According to Jimson Staalin, emoticons -- };) -- indicate effeminacy.
He's a BIG FUCKING GIRL'S BLOUSE! :) :)
Rod "...Praise the Girly Faggot Jesus! Ole'!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Teeth : Array [1..32] of Byte;
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 09 Mar 97 16:06:48
EID:2bc2 226980c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33226f98
* On 06-03-97 at 09:23, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "jesus needed..." in echo Holysmoke:
RS> js> BZZZT! WRONG! Jesus is God. God clearly does _not_
RS> js> love everyone.
RS> FAQ! FAQ!
I just get the darnedest quotes out of him. Forwarded to Fred
for the quote collection.
RS> js> No. You are the one speaking of them in such a manner.
RS> js> All of the things you listed (compassion, understanding,
RS> js> kindness) appear as desireable attributes in any person,
RS> js> man or woman.
RS> RodS> Yet you display none of them.
RS> js> That is not true. Ask those who know me. If they are
RS> js> honest they will tell you I do.
RS> Don't everyone speak at once.
I'm certainly shutting up. Does ANYONE like what Jimson says?
I was making the comparison in another post. Jimson claims that
the Christian domestic terrorists are not real Christians. He
uses this cop-out excuse to claim that the acts aren't Christian
domestic terrorist attacks.
I wonder what other Christians would say of Jimson if they saw
his hateful diatribe in this echo? Would they say he is "false
Christian scum(tm)"? :) :)
Maybe we should recruit some more Christians to judge Jim. Why
should we have all the fun? :) :)
Rod "...what do you think, Richard?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * And God said: E = +mv} - Ze}/r... and there *was* light!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 09 Mar 97 16:06:50
EID:16aa 226980c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33226f9a
This message was from ROD SWIFT to RICHARD SMITH,
and was forwarded to you by ROD SWIFT.
-------------------------
* On 06-03-97 at 09:23, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "jesus needed..." in echo Holysmoke:
RS> js> BZZZT! WRONG! Jesus is God. God clearly does _not_
RS> js> love everyone.
RS> FAQ! FAQ!
I just get the darnedest quotes out of him. Forwarded to Fred
for the quote collection.
RS> js> No. You are the one speaking of them in such a manner.
RS> js> All of the things you listed (compassion, understanding,
RS> js> kindness) appear as desireable attributes in any person,
RS> js> man or woman.
RS> RodS> Yet you display none of them.
RS> js> That is not true. Ask those who know me. If they are
RS> js> honest they will tell you I do.
RS> Don't everyone speak at once.
I'm certainly shutting up. Does ANYONE like what Jimson says?
I was making the comparison in another post. Jimson claims that
the Christian domestic terrorists are not real Christians. He
uses this cop-out excuse to claim that the acts aren't Christian
domestic terrorist attacks.
I wonder what other Christians would say of Jimson if they saw
his hateful diatribe in this echo? Would they say he is "false
Christian scum(tm)"? :) :)
Maybe we should recruit some more Christians to judge Jim. Why
should we have all the fun? :) :)
Rod "...what do you think, Richard?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * And God said: E = +mv} - Ze}/r... and there *was* light!
* OLX 2.1 TD * Physicist: An atom's way of knowing about atoms!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Staalin's 2nd Girly
|Date: 09 Mar 97 16:07:52
EID:a3f0 226980e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33226fd8
* On 06-03-97 at 11:42, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Staalin's 2nd Girly" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> js> A better man is what they make out of me. :)
RS> This makes the 2nd girly that Staalin has managed to achieve
RS> in this message packet. He's getting quite limp-wristed.
I wonder if he's turning faggy already?
RS> ... BZZZT! WRONG! Jesus is God. God clearly does _not_ love everyone.
- JS
Praise Jesus for Quote Files! Get thee behind Jimson, Satan! :) :)
Rod "...bend him over, Satan! :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * That tagline is *true* ---> <--- That tagline is *false*
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Staalin's 3rd Girly
|Date: 09 Mar 97 16:08:54
EID:6afc 22698100
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33227016
* On 06-03-97 at 11:43, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Staalin's 3rd Girly" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> js> They will, and I'll be there to witness it. :)
RS> Here's Staalin's 3rd girly. He'll probably begin
RS> cross-dressing now . . .
This would bring a bit of gender parity into the household. As
we all know, Wilbur already wears the PANTS in the family.
Hence, him wearing the dress will bring gender balance back to
neutral.
Rod "...praise Jesus, and ROTFL now!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Dogs crawl under gates, software crawls under Windows
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: All
|Sub: Test your knowledge
|Date: 09 Mar 97 16:12:56
EID:db10 22698180
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33227108
* On 08-03-97 at 22:48, ROD SWIFT wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "Test your knowledge" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> As I promised. The US Federal Bureau of Prisons sent me data on
RS> religious affiliation at time of prison entry for all prisoners in
RS> Federal prisons.
RS> This was in response to a Christian claiming that he thought that US
RS> prison populations consisted of of about 0.5% Christians, and the rest
RS> were godless atheists and heretics.
I meant to write that this was in response to a Christian on IRC
claiming that... hehehehe :)
RS> Now, I'm going to run a little quiz, if anyone would like to play.
You have 96,968 prisoners total to divide among the following groups:
Adventists
American Indians
Atheists
Baha'i
Buddhists
Catholic
Church of Christ
Hindu
Jehovah's Witness
Jewish
Krishna
Moorish
Mormons
Muslims
Nation (?)
Orthodox
Pentecostal
Protestant
Rasta
Santeria
Scientology
Sikh
No Preference 13,878
Unknown 4,503
I've given you the statistics that 13,878 of the prisoners did not
give a religious preference, and 4,503 prisoners were unknwon.
That should leave you with about 80,000 to spread across the above
groups.
RS> Post your guesses here. I'll post the actual figures on 21 March.
RS> You will be surprised by the results.
If you want to netmail me your responses, fine, so that you don't
give away any secrets or hints from your answer to anyone else :)
Rod "...I wonder if Jimson and Ken will post a guess? I hope
so!" Swift. :) :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Homophobia: the fear obvious to all but the homophobe!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: Re: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 09 Mar 97 16:16:58
EID:f974 22698200
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332271fa
* On 06-03-97 at 13:32, KEN WIENS wrote to JASON HARMON,
on the topic of "Re: Driving Mr. Daisy" in echo Holysmoke:
KW> JH>That's advertising a political philosophy. And what do you
KW> JH>mean by "pro gay agenda"? Wanting to be treated like normal
KW> JH>people? Not telling gays that they're perverts and doomed for
KW> JH>all eternity?
KW> Wanting to be treated like normal people would be part of
------------------
KW> it. Not telling gays that they're perverts and doomed for
KW> eternity would not be part of it. The Bible says those who
KW> practice homosexual acts as a lifestyle are doomed for
KW> eternity. But it also says those who practice heterosexual
KW> sex outside of marriage as a lifestyle are also. Hey, the
KW> fundy God is an "equal opportunity God."
So you, Ken, assume gays aren't "normal" i.e. well-adjusted?
Or were you being statistic in your outlook?
Rod "...btw, welcome back. Hope your hard drive crashes soon! :)
:)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Nuke a gay Jesus for the baby whales
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: [1/3] Cheese Whiz
|Date: 09 Mar 97 16:21:00
EID:980a 226982a0
GMD: 1:396/1
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332272ec
* On 07-03-97 at 07:57, JIM STAAL wrote to DAVID WORRELL,
on the topic of "[1/3] Cheese Whiz" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> DW> Fitzsimmons told Nightline that the procedure "is a form of
JS> DW> killing... You're ending a life." `
JS> DW> I wonder just who it was that stuck Fitzsimmon's head up his ass?
JS> Sounds to me like the man finally got a conscience.
Will you get a conscience, and get out of the lives and rights of
women, given your statement back in July/August last year that
you believed that:
JS> Folks gotta right to do to themselves what they want as long as it
JS> affects me in no way whatsoever...
For your reference, the posting quoting your words, and warning
us to be wary of you and to remember them:
===========================================================================
BBS: The Perth Omen
Date: 09-08-96 (12:26) Number: 1037
From: JASON HARMON Refer#: NONE
To: ALL Recvd: NO
Subj: Re: My Summer Weekend Conf: (16) Holysmoke
___------------------------------------------------------------------------
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Richard Smith <=-
JS> Folks gotta right to do to themselves what they want as long as it
JS> affects me in no way whatsoever...
Remember this folks.....
... Watch out where the huskies go and don't you eat that yellow snow.
___ Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#18)
* Origin: [The Dark Corner] Still Spitting 'Fire' (1:3652/1)
___------------------------------------------------------------------------
* OLX 2.1 TD * Fundamentalism: Fund=give $$$, Amentalism=without brain
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Baby in Critical Conditi
|Date: 09 Mar 97 16:23:02
EID:bf06 226982e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33227366
* On 07-03-97 at 02:45, DAN CEPPA wrote to DAVID WORRELL,
on the topic of "Baby in Critical Conditio" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> ... "El O'him: God is an Irish Mexican." J.j. Hitt
No no no! If Jesus is JEWISH, why does he have a SPANISH name? :) :)
Rod "...that's what I want to know!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Anti-women, anti-gay -- born again bigot, go away!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dave Hamilton
|Sub: [1/3] Cheese Whiz
|Date: 09 Mar 97 16:26:04
EID:86d9 22698340
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3322741c
* On 07-03-97 at 00:17, DAVE HAMILTON wrote to DAVID WORRELL,
on the topic of "[1/3] Cheese Whiz" in echo Holysmoke:
DH> DW> I wonder just who it was that stuck Fitzsimmon's head up his ass?
DH> I still don't consider this verified for healthy mothers and fullterm
DH> babies.
DH> Hopefully, some facts will surface.
Well, Jimson was doing the spindoctoring on the claim. All
Fitzsimmon's said was that he lied about the number of abortions
carried out late-term. Jimson made the claim that they were
healthy foetuses inside healthy mothers. This claim was false.
Rod "...anyway, about 3000-4000 late-term abortions in the US per
annum of non-viable foetuses or to save the mother is about
right. In WA, we have about 350 per annum, for a population of
about 1.2 million people" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Famous graffitti: Please don't write on the -- oops!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: David Rice
|Sub: James Makes Things Up
|Date: 09 Mar 97 16:30:06
EID:cb29 226983c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3322750e
* On 06-03-97 at 16:56, DAVID RICE wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "James Makes Things Up" in echo Holysmoke:
DR> >MB> Gimme numbers. I want REAL numbers from the Department of
DR> >MB> Health, not some fundy number made up by somebody who is
DR> >MB> hysterical about even one of the procedures.
DR> JS> No prob: 3000-4000 late term, partial-birth abortions a
DR> JS> year involving healthy mothers and healthy fetuses.
DR> JS> Source: Ron Fitzsimmons, head of the Coalition of Abortion
DR> JS> Practitioners I guess that should do it.
DR> Do you really expect people to take your word for it?! If so,
DR> you're even more ignorant than Appletoon.
See, this is the lie. He claimed 3000-4000 late term,
PARTIAL-BIRTH abortions a year involving HEALTHY MOTHERS AND
HEALTHY FOETUSES.
The newsbyte I got was that only the number was lied about.
Jimson spindoctored the claim into being 3000-4000 "children
being murdered" by adding the claim that each of the 3000-4000
abortions was of a healthy foetus in a healthy mother.
BTW, I remind you of what Jimson said back in July/August last
year:
JS> Folks gotta right to do to themselves what they want as long as it
JS> affects me in no way whatsoever...
Call him on it. Abortion does not affect him whatsoever. He is
pro-choice, and admitted so last year :)
Rod "...even if the foetus IS viable and the mother healthy, he's
PRO-CHOICE by that statement last year, or, if he does not
support it, is a HYPOCRITE" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Know God, know problems. No God, no problems!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 09 Mar 97 16:36:08
EID:6002 22698480
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 33227678
* On 06-03-97 at 17:04, KEN WIENS wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "Oops, Caught Again" in echo Holysmoke:
KW> I've even thought of becoming self-employed doing this kind
KW> of work. My eye doctor said the man who services his
KW> wifes computer has more than full time work doing just
KW> that. But beg? No way. Not as long as I have any ability
KW> to make money on my own. I find that an undecidedly
KW> unchristian thing to do.
KW> cc: Jim Staal
Did you know Jim Staal begs for money on this echo?
Is Jim Staal false Christian scum(tm)?
BTW, are the people who bomb abortion clinics and gay
nightclubs for their Christianity, in your view,
domestic Christian terrorists? What are you doing to stop
these terrorists?
Rod "...and honest answers, please, or your hard drive will die
again because Jesus will judge you" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Any closet is a walk-in closet if you try hard enough
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 62 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 09 Mar 97 16:36:10
EID:c45c 22698480
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 3322767a
This message was from ROD SWIFT to KEN WIENS,
and was forwarded to you by ROD SWIFT.
-------------------------
* On 06-03-97 at 17:04, KEN WIENS wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "Oops, Caught Again" in echo Holysmoke:
KW> I've even thought of becoming self-employed doing this kind
KW> of work. My eye doctor said the man who services his
KW> wifes computer has more than full time work doing just
KW> that. But beg? No way. Not as long as I have any ability
KW> to make money on my own. I find that an undecidedly
KW> unchristian thing to do.
KW> cc: Jim Staal
Did you know Jim Staal begs for money on this echo?
Is Jim Staal false Christian scum(tm)?
BTW, are the people who bomb abortion clinics and gay
nightclubs for their Christianity, in your view,
domestic Christian terrorists? What are you doing to stop
these terrorists?
Rod "...and honest answers, please, or your hard drive will die
again because Jesus will judge you" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Any closet is a walk-in closet if you try hard enough
* OLX 2.1 TD * Yogi Bear was a nudist buddhist
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 62 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 2401/0 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Accepting Reality
|Date: 10 Mar 97 14:49:00
EID:b598 226a7620
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 332465ac
-> On 06 Mar 97 08:15:02, Ken Wiens got back to Jason Harmon
DC>Gee, Kenny, you drop back in here after a long absence
DC>and don't even take the time to say 'hi' to me.
Oh hell, Danny, give a guy a break. Well, ok, hello
attcha.
KW>the Book of Mormon or the Koran are factual. Well, perhaps
KW>most of us. What can I say, I'm a FUNDY!!"
DC>No, Kenny, you are a fucking fundy asshole, and I mean that
DC>sincerely.
I think you say that just to impress the other doubters
in this crowd. You know, peer pressure. You don't strike
me as one of those who'd have an original thought in his
head more than once in twenty years.
DC>How many 12 year old rape victims did you execute during
DC>your sabbatical?
How many babies who would have had normal human lives
otherwise did you abort during my sabbatical?
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Mercifully free of the ravages of intelligence.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 2401/0 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 103/550 500 2 270/101 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Accepting Reality
|Date: 10 Mar 97 15:25:02
EID:3653 226a7b20
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 33246e1e
KW>What can I say, I'm a FUNDY!!
RC>Here you can say whatever you please, Ken. Enjoy the
RC>freedom. Oh, and welcome back.
Thanks. Yes, this place is unique. It is the only BBS
Conference I know of where a body can say anything they
want except misquote someone else.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Beware of all enterprises requiring new clothes.-Thoreau
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: No Good Things
|Date: 10 Mar 97 15:26:04
EID:8172 226a7b40
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 33246e5c
KW>Well, I'll be damned!
RC>Join the club.
Whoops! I didn't quite mean it that way. If
my mom had heard me say that I would've had
my mouth washed out with soap.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * You are a Redneck if you ever lost a tooth opening a beer
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Fundy Frolics 1/3
|Date: 10 Mar 97 15:29:06
EID:25b3 226a7ba0
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 33246f12
MG>Babies are totally innocent. Why do any of them need to go
MG>to hell?
JS>None are innocent. All suffer the effects of original sin.
JS>Romans 3:23.
RC>Children do not bear the sins of their parents.
RC>Ezekiel, chapter 18.
KW>Perhaps you should also try reading other parts of the Bible.
KW>Ezekiel is speaking of the guilt of the father's sin never
KW>being held against the sons. Moses, on the other hand,
KW>in Exodus 20:5 has in view the consequences of the fathers sins.
RC>And so you believe in a god that burns babies in hell as
RC>a consequence of other people's actions? Do you follow the
RC>same unethical code?
Nope. I don't believe any babies burn in hell, period. I
do believe that the fathers sins all too often have an
affect on their sons. A father comes home drunk every
night. That has an affect on the family. This is especially
so if he happens to be violent when drunk. You get the
drift.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * What saith the Scripture?
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Lunatic buttfucks
|Date: 10 Mar 97 15:32:08
EID:9267 226a7c00
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 33246fc8
JS> I do know that Jesus Christ promised, approximately 2,000
JS> years ago that He would return...and He will. Trust me.
RC>While you're waiting, would you be interested in buying a bridge?
KW> 2 Pet 3:3-9
KW> 3Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will come
RC>And how many more thousands of years do these "days" last?
That only God knows fur sure. Me? I think it will come very
shortly judging by what has been happening in Israel the latter
half of this century. For the first time in 2000 years Israel
is a Nation again. As Zechariah prophesied would obtain during
the end times Israel has become a "cup of trembling" to the
nations, a real major problem, a gigantic pain in the butt.
For that reason I don't think it'll be much longer. But I
could be wrong.
KW>9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness,
RC>Perhaps he doesn't want to run any cosmic red lights in a rush to
RC>meet the thirty millenium delivery time guarantee. Go right ahead
RC>and wait for the imaginary pizza, Ken. Pie in the sky when you die.
Only He knows when He is coming. That He is coming you can take
to the bank.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * He's not a dog! He's a "Canine-American!"
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Accepting Reality
|Date: 10 Mar 97 15:42:10
EID:b598 226a7d40
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 33247222
DC>How many 12 year old rape victims did you execute during
DC>your sabbatical?
As is typical you liberals have to distort the truth to
make your view look good. To begin with most abortions
are not a result of someone getting raped. I'm quite
sure of that. I'd wager a majority of abortions are a
result of some teenager getting pregnant fooling around
with her boyfriend. At any rate, what justification is
there for making the unborn child die because someone
had illicit sex? That should be called murder, pure and
simple. The only time an abortion should be justified is
to save the life of the mother. But to those who think
life is cheap killing an unborn child means nothing.
Those who do so other than for the reason above should
be considered murderers and pay the consequences. So
don't be bandying about totally stupid and ridiculous
distortions of the truth like you do above. All you do
is make yourself look just as stupid and ridiculous.
DC>... They were HOMOS! God was justified to kill them.
DC> per Ken Weins
To begin with you spell my name wrong. Secondly, you
claim I said something I never said. I thought that
was forbidden in this Conference.
To set the record straight. I think there will be
HOMOS in heaven. Why? Because being a HOMO (whether
one is born one or one by choice) does not send
one to heaven or hell. It is living a lifestyle
where one regularly engages in such acts without
stopping the practice and repenting that will
send one to hell. Learn to distinguish the
difference. The New Testament says those who
engage in such acts as a regular lifestyle will
not see the Kingdom of Heaven, not those who
happen to be HOMO. Being born with the inclination
is not going to send anyone to hell. Just as
being born with an inclination toward illicit
sex will not send someone to hell either. I'm
not sure you will comprehend any of this. But
I had to try.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * And that's the way it is--Walter Cronkite
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: J.J. Needs To Be
|Date: 11 Mar 97 07:58:12
EID:6cec 226b3f40
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 332556e4
>My God can do and has done something about evil: He sent
>His Son, Jesus Christ, to defeat Satan, by dying on the
>cross at Calvary to be the perfect
FR>Gee. Just like Mithra 380 years before the Jesus mythos.
FR>Looks like another god beat yours to the punch, dear.
Not hardly. As Dr. Ronald H. Nash observes:
"Allegations of an early Christian dependence on
Mithraism have been rejected on many grounds. Mithraism
had no concept of the death and resurrection of its
god and no place for any concept of rebirth-at least
during its early stages. Whereas other mystery cults
had a cyclical notion of life=death-rebirth based on
the vegetation cycle, the Mithraic view of history
was linear, not cyclical. During the early stages of
the cult, the notion of rebirth would have been foreign
to its basic outlook. If rebirth appears at all in the
cult, it was a late addition...Perhaps the most important
argument against an early Christian dependence on
Mithraism is the fact that the timing is all wrong. The
flowering of Mithraism occured after the close of the
New Testament canon, too late for it to have influenced
the development of first-century Christianity." page
147 of "Christianity & the Hellenistic World" by
Ronald H. Nash. Zondervan Publishing House. Grand
Rapids, Michigan. 1984.
FR>Might I suggest you learn the origins of the Jesus myths?
I strongly suggest you learn something substantive and
scholarly about the subject first.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * >>O<< >>O<< Bugs... What Bugs? >>O<< >>O<<
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: Lunatic Buttfucks
|Date: 11 Mar 97 09:04:00
EID:3136 226b4880
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 33256650
-=> Quoting Ken Wiens to Robert Curry <=-
KW>3Know this first of all, that in the last days mockers will
KW>come with {their} mocking, following after their own lusts,
KW>4and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For {ever}
KW>since the fathers fell asleep, all continues just as it was
KW>from the beginning of creation."
RH>See, there were reasonable people even back then.
Yes. One will find reasonable people in nearly every
age of history. But those who think they are the most
reasonable are not always so.
KW>5For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by
KW>the word of God {the} heavens existed long ago and {the} earth
KW>was formed out of water and by water,
KW>6through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded
KW>with water.
KW>7But the present heavens and earth by His word are being reserved
KW>for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly
KW>men.
KW>8But do not let this one {fact} escape your notice, beloved, that
KW>with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years
KW>as one day.
KW>9The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness,
KW>but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for
KW>all to come to repentance.
KW>(NAS)
RH>But the fundies were no smarter then either. All of the above is
RH>non sequiter.
I can see why you'd say this of the second part of the above
citation. But "all of the above?" As to fundies being no
smarter then than now. Well, whether one is fundy or not
does not determine level of intelligence or even level of
education. There are nut cases in any group, believers and
non-believers. There are those who are smart and dumb
among believers and non-believers. IMV, the smarter ones
are the ones who do believe and the dumber ones the ones
who do not.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Home is where the computer is plugged in X
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 11 Mar 97 09:07:02
EID:2a74 226b48e0
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 33256706
JS>I do the same thing. :) There are so many totally computer
JS>illiterates out there who have a new Win95 based machine,
JS>but have no clue about it. Or those who wish to upgrade and
JS>haven't any idea how or what to do.
KW>But beg? No way. Not as long as I have any ability
KW>to make money on my own. I find that an undecidedly
KW>unchristian thing to do.
JS>We agree. So...uh...cut me some slack, dude, and don't give
JS>a thought to jumping on Judith's bandwagon getting down on
JS>Jim Staal, ok? :)
Ok. Thanks for filling me in on the details from your
side of the fence.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Shi'ite happens!
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 11 Mar 97 09:12:04
EID:2a74 226b4980
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 33256834
KW>I was laid off of a job I had for 8 years Nov. 18. The timing
KW>was rather odd. I had just come off of Workman's Comp due to
KW>carpal tunnel release surgery on both my hands during the
KW>summer.
JS>Had the same problem (surgery did nothing to relieve the
JS>problem) after 28 years at the same job. (two years ago)
Surgery seems to have helped in my case to a certain
extent. Before the surgery I could type for a few minutes
and both hands would go numb. Now I do not have the numbness
problem. But I do still have tingling intermittently. The
doctor released me after nearly six months to go back to
work with no restrictions but there still being disability
factors involved. I still experience pretty severe inflammation
at times. He said that if symptoms return in eight months then
he would put definite restrictions on my typing. So, we'll
see. The insurance company handling the claim tell us we
will be receiving a settlement offer. But if we accept that
that closes the case and I can no longer make any claims
based on that injury.
Do you have an email internet account? We can talk via
email if you do. Mine is at the bottom of all my messages.
Let me know.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Bill Clinton - unsafe at any speed.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Fundy Frolics 1/3
|Date: 11 Mar 97 09:14:06
EID:eb18 226b49c0
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 332568ae
JS>On (06 Mar 97) Ken Wiens wrote to Robert Curry...
JS>None are innocent. All suffer the effects of original sin.
JS>Romans 3:23.
RC>Perhaps you might try reading other parts of that bible you thu
RC>Jimbo. Or have you decided that Ezekiel chapter 18 is not reall
RC>part of your bible?
KW>Perhaps you should also try reading other parts of the Bible.
KW>Ezekiel is speaking of the guilt of the father's sin never
KW>being held against the sons. Moses, on the other hand,
KW>in Exodus 20:5 has in view the consequences of the fathers
KW>sins. Psalm 51:5 says that even from birth man is polluted
KW>with sin. Psalm 58:3 confirms the same, as does Ephesians
KW>2:3 and many other passages. Take your own advice. Read
KW>the Bible thoroughly on this subject. Get yourself a good,
KW>comprehensive concordence and trace the topic thru the
KW>Bible.
RC>Even better than babbling bible verses, try thinking for
RC>a change.
KW>Add to thinking thorough study of your subject before
KW>commenting on it.
JS>An excellent response.
Thanks. The hard nosed sceptics in this Conference have
a tendency to play fast and loose with the biblical
text, biblical history, and history in general. When I
see this happening I do what I can to head them off at
the pass. And they accuse of the fundies of being
brain dead and dumb. Sheesh!
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Bill Clinton suffers from delusions of competence.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: J.J. Needs To Be
|Date: 11 Mar 97 09:18:08
EID:43e4 226b4a40
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 332569a0
-> On 07 Mar 97 10:28:02, Ken Wiens got back to Darryl Gonzalez
DG>H-I-S-T-O-R-Y. It's called HISTORY. And there are several
KW>Well, yes. But you don't have to spend much time in this
KW>Conference to realize that historical evidence has no
KW>effect whatsoever on the extremists here. Their minds,
DC>That's were you are very wrong, Kenny. After all, it is
DC>history that you said you wanted to execute 12 yr old girls
DC>that were raped my their father.
Thanks for proving me right once again. I never said I
wanted to execute anyone. I did say that those who
willfully abort their unborn children except to save
the mother should be tried in a court of law and if
found guilty executed. That is history. And as you
can see it is radically different than your mangled
attempt at relating history. Thanks again for proving
my point. You are one of the worst offenders here in
this respect anyway.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * The world can't end today - it's tomorrow in Australia!!!
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 62 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: My Bear and Computers
|Date: 11 Mar 97 12:58:10
EID:e832 226b6740
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 33259d32
KW>Now, if one of you who know something about computers could
KW>just explain to me how that man can destroy a good system
KW>installing Norton Utilities, I would appreciate it. As it is,
KW>I'm just trying to stay calm, and remind myself that the
KW>occasional computer is a small price to pay for a man so
KW>wonderful in so many other ways.
Hmmm...A bear totalling your computer? I just visited your
www site today and saw the picture of you two together. He
looks to be very friendly, easy to get along with, and with
the best of intentions.
I dunno. I've installed Norton Utilities on all of my
computers from the earliest version down to the present
version. I never had it do that to my computer. The worst
that has happened is a conflict with some other utility
that was running in memory at the same time as one of
the Norton applets.
KW>(Score to date since Jan 1--the pent three times, the 486 twice,
KW>and his mother's elderly 286 once)
If possible you might have someone else do the job next time
around. The track record you cite above doesn't sound too
good.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Make headlines! Use a corduroy pillow.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Profanity 01
|Date: 11 Mar 97 13:07:12
EID:dcc2 226b68e0
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 33259f50
RV>Perhaps you should find a male to set it up for you.
RV>[ dam if doesn't get a pie, nothing will ]
KW>It wouldn't have, as a male did set up the BBS, and most of my
KW>troubles with my home system are caused by another male's
KW>habit of creatively killing the computer.
RV>Yes i know. Sounds like my hub. When it starts working as it
RV>should. He just has to play around, then it's screwup again
RV>for a few weeks.
KW>Will bought the board from another gentleman about a year
KW>ago--and he's still learning the software. And, being male,
KW>he's had to play with it .
Well, yes, we males do generally have that problem with the
computer. My wife is always chiding me about this very
problem. "Why don't you leave it alone once it is working
correctly and why do you always have to get upgrades of
this that and the other thing?" I'll admit, I've crashed
my system a good number of times as a result of tinkering
with the Windows 95 Registry. Its just that it is so
dang interesting and fun to tinker with. But I've got a
tape backup unit now I keep up to date so if anything goes
haywire with the software I can restore from backup.
Problems as a result of tinkering with the hardware is
another matter.
I do have an excuse for the screwups: I learn something
useful each time. Still, my wife is not impressed.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * He's a few Beta's short of a full release...
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Dork
|Date: 11 Mar 97 13:22:14
EID:aa9b 226b6ac0
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 3325a2d6
KW>It does make you wonder about just what it is that
KW>he's married to.
RS>Are we talking Wilbur Complex here?
KW>Well, the descriptions that these fundies tend to give of
KW>their partner are, well, colorful at the least and down right
KW>scary in many cases.
Ok. I'll try to prove the exception to the general rule.
I've been married nearly 23 years. My wife's name is
Evelyn. I call her Evy. Half her ancestry is from
Norway the other half from England. She is blond and
blue eyed and not a pound overweight. She is also very
bright and highly educated. She graduated both from
high school and college summa cum laude. If she has a
fault it is that she is too perfectionist. She majored
in Language Arts with an emphasis on Hellenistic Greek.
Later she earned her ART certificate (I forget exactly
what that stands for execepting that it qualifies her
to run a Medical Records Department). She did this while
working full time and helping to raise our two children.
She is quite an achiever.
She tends to be shy around strangers but always more
than ready to help someone who asks for help in any
way. She is very friendly. Once in awhile that Viking
blood in her boils up and I'm usually the recipient
of the forthcoming wrath (deserving most of the time).
She made employee of the month at the hospital she
works at a few months ago. She has been there since
1981. She has complained about another lady at work
who is always broadcasting the fact she is a christian
while at the same time cheating every day on her
time card. My wife and some other ladies confronted
her and reported her cheating to the boss finally.
So, she has a strong sense of moral right and wrong.
What else can I say? I hope this somewhat breaks
the pattern you allude to above.
KW>We've got one married to a Wilber, another who's married to
KW>a blow up doll, and the occasional Maria Russell wandering
KW>through to remind us that such oddities do really exist.
I don't doubt this. I've certainly met some of them over
the years.
KW>But for all of their 'xtianity', they also can't seem to
KW>resist following Lynda around begging her to spank them. . .
KW>much to Lynda's bemusement.
You know, I followed the link from your Web site to
Lynda's Web site this morning...I almost sent her
an email letting her know how naughty I'd been
today. (bg)
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * A flying buttress short of a cathedral.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Reading Incomprehensi
|Date: 12 Mar 97 09:09:00
EID:9289 226c4920
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 3326b8fc
-> On 08 Mar 97 06:22:02, Ken Wiens got back to Rod Swift
KW>heaven. The New Testament repeatedly states the christian
KW>is not under the OT Law or bound by that Law. The Law was
DC>Bullshit, Kenny. Your "godling" Jesus said that he "came not
DC>to change one dot or tittle of the law."
He was correct. He fulfilled that Law 100% too. He was
the first and only One able to do so.
DC>Your dogma does not come from your godling but by the true
DC>founder of your religion, Saul.
Odd, then, that Peter and James and the others also agree
with Paul at the Jerusalem Council as detailed in Acts 15.
The founder of my religion is Jesus Christ Himself. You've
decided to follow some modern myth about the founding of
Christianity. And that is all it is, a silly myth.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * Life is hard. It's even harder if you're stupid.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: CorUnum * Fountain Valley, CA * 714/531-7255 (1:103/550)
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: David Rice
|Sub: alignment list
|Date: 12 Mar 97 09:11:02
EID:1f4c 226c4960
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 3326b976
-=> Quoting Ken Wiens to Katherine Wintersnight <=-
KW>It seems to be quite a complete list. However, my
KW>last name was spelled wrong. It is "Wiens", not
KW>"Weins." It is a common misspelling. Ok, I'll go
KW>back and hide under my bed now. Thank You.
DR>Several months ago you posted a "quote" here in this echo
DR>concerning gun regulation that you attributed to President
DR>William Clinton. When I pointed out the fact that it was
DR>Adolph Hitler that actually made the quote, you again
DR>attributed it to Clinton. After my second refutation you,
DR>without a blush, finally attributed it to Hitler--- and
DR>not one peep did you utter to explain your two previous
DR>blatent lies.
DR>Are you ever going to explain why you lied, or will you
DR>continue to hide and hope everyone forgets you lied?
I do remember a discussion about Hitler. I do not remember
any discussion about gun regulation. That part is a
figment of your imagination unless you or anyone else
on this Conference can reproduce the evidence from my
messages.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * The name is Baud....., James Baud.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Ken Is a Liar
|Date: 12 Mar 97 09:14:04
EID:193b 226c49c0
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 3326ba2c
-=> Quoting Ken Wiens to Darryl Gonzalez <=-
DR>Hi liar. Have you attributed an Hitler quotes to Clinton
DR>yet today?
Until you can reproduce the exact quotes from my
messages to this effect you are and remain the
only liar in this situation. Are you ready and
able to do so liar?
KW> Well, yes. But you don't have to spend much time in
KW> this Conference to realize that historical evidence
KW> has no effect whatsoever on the extremists here.
KW> Their minds, such as is left of them, are pretty
KW> much gone when it comes to sifting, much less
KW> comprehending anything of a historical nature.
KW> Evidence to them is anything that physically
KW> smacks them hard in the nose. Anything less
KW> goes way over their heads.
DR>You fail to take account of the fact that you Fundy moron
DR>luanatics =REFUSE= to present this "evidence" or yours.
DR>All you're good for is sillyassed assertions.
Thank you for reinforcing and proving my above comments
true by means of your erudite ramblings that follow.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * My other CPU is a dual Pentium Pro 200
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Accepting Reality
|Date: 12 Mar 97 09:16:06
EID:0979 226c4a00
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 3326baa6
-=> Quoting Ken Wiens <=-
KW> What can I say, I'm a FUNDY!!
DR>You can also say that Clinton gave Hitler's speaches
DR>for him, like you did previously.
Until you produce my exact quotes to this effect
you are nothing but a liar. Are you able to do
this liar? If not you alone remain the liar.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * clinton Defense #15: Hey - I just do what the wife says!
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Ken Young: Poster child
|Date: 12 Mar 97 14:59:08
EID:6903 226c7760
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 33270b0c
-=> Quoting Karl Schneider to Ken Young <=-
DR>This morning on the local KYMS (fundy) radio there was an
DR>"ex-homosexual" guest speaker. I rushed to the phone and
DR>managed to be the first caller-iner of the show. I told
DR>them that I am an "ex-negro, but now, praise god, I'm
DR>white." They hung up on me and said over the air that I
DR>was "obviously disturbed."
They were obviously correct. That station is local for
me too. What they understood and you don't comprehend
is that there could be such a thing as one who formerly
engaged in homosexual acts but does no longer.
DR>I wonder if they took the hint.
As far as they were concerned there was no hint. Your
ignorant comments were much too blatant.
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * "I am an ex-negro..." David Rice
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Ken Wiens
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Lunatic buttfucks
|Date: 12 Mar 97 15:02:10
EID:ad4d 226c7840
MSGID: 1:103/550.0 33270bc2
-=> Quoting Robert Curry to Ken Wiens <=-
DR>The subject line looks like a Fredric solection. :-)
JS>I do know that Jesus Christ promised,
JS>approximately 2,000 years ago that He[sic]
JS>would return... and He[sic] will. Trust me.
DR>Jesus Christ didn't make that promiss: Jesus did.
DR>He also said he would return in that generation.
DR>Ooops!
If you read the immediate context you'd notice
he was referring to the generation that would
be alive at the time of his generation. The
demonstrative pronoun is very prominent in
the original Greek preceding the term
"generation." The "Ooops!" is all yours
this time, Bucko!
Ken Wiens
=kwiens@earthlink.net
___
* WR 1.33 # 618 * If it's too loud, you're too old.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Dork
|Date: 11 Mar 97 17:14:38
EID:5f56 226b89c0
MSGID: 1:207/212 62f3f7cc
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org b26a4b28
On (08 Mar 97) Katherine Wintersnight wrote to Karen Davis...
KW> Be patient, it takes time. The only ones that I've been given are
KW> wither as part of a group deal, or as part of an experiment on the
KW> sexual suggestiveness of nicks with a 'cat' motif.
Hehe I'll wait.
... David Duke - A Nazi in Conservative Clothing!
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
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|From: Karen Davis
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Moin Hallo Hi
|Date: 11 Mar 97 17:15:27
EID:7e9a 226b89e0
MSGID: 1:207/212 2552fd72
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 3321ea9c
On (08 Mar 97) Dan Ceppa wrote to Karen Davis...
DC> It's getting better. I got a reply today from the
DC> school councilor. Se has determined that "every day
DC> to day activities" take precident over the part of the
DC> decree that notes "MAJOR DECISIONS". It took over
DC> 10 days to get the reply back to me.
DC> Her carbons where to the Principal, Superintendant and my
DC> ex. Mine will be to the first 2 plus the State School
DC> Commissioner and the Legal Department.
What is the specific problem?
KD> Interestingly, as I mentioned on IRC yesterday, I stop being a teacher
KD> in 33 days.
DC> Damn!
No, I'm not all that great, Dan. I work my tail off to get nowhere.
KD> I received a private sector job offer with an internet
KD> provider that I couldn't turn down.
DC> I can understand that. I had my 9th grade math teacher take
DC> the same route. What I can't understand is why those that
DC> can teach can't make a decent living by doing what they can
DC> do best. (Sorry, it's not my intention to give you a guilt
DC> trip. It's just my view of this society.)
It *is* a decent living at 31K for a first year teacher, but it's just
not for me.
DC> As it is, it's that very same figure. I messed with those days
DC> and deterimined that school lasts for only eight months, with
DC> all in that time frame weekends free. I don't remember that
DC> much time off when I was in grade school. The summer vacation
DC> started about the middle of June and ended just after the 1st
DC> weekend in August. And, the only long break was between xmass and
DC> New Years.
You forget Easter.
... Apathy error: Don't bother striking any key.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: John Brawley
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: infinitesimals
|Date: 11 Mar 97 08:51:55
EID:74ac 226b4660
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 db974419
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 3322ce94
On 09 Mar 97, David Worrell wrote:
DW> 06 Mar 97 21:20, John Brawley wrote to Lynda Bustilloz:
JB> A dimensionless point is still a THING.
DW> And therein lies your entire problem.
Therein is a core precept. The 'entire' problem centers on what may be
considered "real" and what may not. In that sense, you're right.
It remains inescapably (if metaphysically) true that a dimensionless
point is more of a THING than NO thing at all....
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... I'm sorry -- my karma ran over your dogma.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: John Brawley
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 11 Mar 97 09:13:10
EID:8c6e 226b49a0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 1a55adc1
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 3322d372
On 09 Mar 97, David Worrell wrote:
DW> 03 Mar 97 09:48, John Brawley wrote to David Worrell:
DW> DW>> And *any* distance greater than zero, when dealing with the
DW> DW>> "coalescence" of dimensionless points, might as well be several
DW> DW>> parsecs.
JB> Perceptive of you.
JB> Now find a way to _phrase_that_ in some standard math format.
DW> dmin=0+
Cute. Robert? That make sense to you?
DW> DW>> What part of "dimensionless" are you having trouble
DW> DW>> understanding?
JB> I ain't _me_ having that trouble, obviously.
DW> "IS NOT!" again, John? I see you've been hanging around Appleton too
DW> long.
I'd have to agree. Been 'hanging around' creationists in general too
long. Wasted lots of time thereby. (But found out all their ludicrous
arguments, so if knowledge for knowledge's sake is worthwhile, it was
useful, and now I can detect a cretinist sophistry without hardly
thinkin' about it.)
I just feel, in much the same sense, that I have been hangin' around
"dimensionless" for so long now that I _don't_ have trouble
understanding it.
DW> JB>> geotopological, that he said he was too busy to discuss.
DW> DW>> I'm sure it was, John.
JB> Oh, I strongly doubt _that_.
JB> His letters to me are in _my_ files, not in yours.
DW> I'm sure they are, John.
Glad to hear it. Your possible facetiousness notwithstanding.
I have no reason to lie.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Religion is Science without its glasses.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: John Brawley
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: infinitesimals
|Date: 11 Mar 97 09:17:49
EID:74ac 226b4a20
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 6c03c51e
REPLY: 1:123/67.7 3322d39c
On 09 Mar 97, David Worrell wrote:
DW> 03 Mar 97 09:58, John Brawley wrote to David Worrell:
DW> DW>> Thanks for allowing me to take credit for another flyby.
JB> You missed the concept in the first place. A dimensionless point is
a
JB> 'thing' --a nonzero item.
DW> No, John. It is a concept. Thanks for playing, though.
I see. You do not consider a concept, compared to nothing at all, to be
more a thing than nothing at all? OK, you may leave the game; you
forgot to bring your equipment anyway.
(But before you do, recall that a concept has a physical analogue:
patterns of neurons firing in the brain.)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Tagline: "Tag! You're it!"
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Quantum crackpot brawley
|Date: 11 Mar 97 09:20:59
EID:78f2 226b4a80
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 82b54794
REPLY: 1:3603/210 455b6793
On 09 Mar 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> See _Infinitesimal Analysis_ by Abraham Robinson.
RC> Or _On Numbers and Games_ by John Conway.
JB> I note that neither of these are in the Washington University
JB> library (which means, since that library is the most extensive
JB> within reach of my interlibrary loan system, I probably cannot
JB> get them).
RC> It means nothing of the sort. You didn't even _ask_ your librarian
RC> about this, did you?
Robert, I have computer access to every card catalogue in town, (St,
Louis), including both major Universities. Do you suggest that these
books would NOT be listed in the schools' library online _card_
_catalogues_???
My local (county; small branch) librarians are so used to me using the
interlibrary loan system to drag off-the-wall specialized books outta
downtown and the Universities that they supply me with interlibrary loan
request forms for me to take _home_ and fill out when I need to.
Don't for a minute think I don't know what I'm doing. The SysOp of my
host system is one of the librarians for the University of Missouri. If
I could get them easily, I would have them by now.
IOW, there isn't any librarian to _ask_, without me driving down there
and doing _exactly_ the same damn thing physically (and getting myself
asked if I'm a student or not, thus running into 'restrictions')....
Only if there are books NOT LISTED in the computer database, would
physically going downtown (fifty miles or so) produce anything other
than the online catalogues would. (These were also not in the St. Louis
County library system, but then, neither were most of the others by
those authors.)
(It's interesting: I _cannot_ take any of those books off-campus
physically; and some they won't even check out to me in person, but
there seems to be no problem _sending_ them to me via the interlibrary
loan system.... Fascinating anomaly, and I would surely not do
_anything_ to disturb it. (*grin*))
I have _never_failed_ to find a somewhat obscure book at one of the
University libraries before. That is, in fact, how I had to get
Conway's _Sphere_Packings,_Lattices_and_Groups_, since the "public
library" just does not carry it, or indeed, carry a decent percentage of
the off-the-wall books I ask for.
Now, are you telling me that those two are _so_obscure_ that the
Washington University Olin library would either 1) not have them listed
in the online catalogue or 2) have them sequestered away under lock and
key as 'rare books' accessible only through the human librarian? (??!)
(I don't for a _minute_ believe Wash. U.'s library is not up-to-date, or
that _every_book_ (older than, say, a few months) it has is not in the
online catalogue. It's the SAME catalogue that students and professors
use at the terminals physically inside the library building.)
Now revise your comment, please, or provide me with the name of an
interconnected _national_ interlibrary loan system participant library
in which you _know_ those two books are located. There are ways (not
_easy_ ways, but ways) to get books sent across state lines that way,
and I can perhaps pull in a favor or two....
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Faith is not an excuse for ignorance.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: death by whining
|Date: 11 Mar 97 14:28:25
EID:500e 226b7380
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 fc48236d
On 09 Mar 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> I daresay that compared to you, most first graders are "wise
RC> and superior mathematical experts," John.
RC> JB>> (*sigh*) Never cease overstating cases, do you?
RC> I meant it seriously and literally. I know first graders who
JB> Then, despite your protestations to the contrary, you're
JB> even LESS even-minded, MORE egotistical, than me.
RC> Ah, this is this first I've heard of my "protestations to the
RC> contrary." Would you be kind enough to share them with me? :-)
Ooops. I forgot: you haven't claimed NOT to be an egomaniac, have
you.... Never mind.
RC> including a better grasp of adding and subtracting on a number
RC> line.
JB> Robert, I _grasp_ your zero-block-containing number line just
JB> _fine_.
RC> Then allow me to rephrase: I know first graders who can and do
RC> better _demonstrate_ their grasp of mathematical basics than you
RC> do here, including a better demonstration of their ability to
RC> conceptualize adding and subtracting on a number line.
I wrote one to Lynda (Bustilloz) suggesting that instead of handing her
three-year-old the blocks one-by-one, she lay them in a line on the
floor and ask the kid to count them, _including_ a non-block space, and
see if it made any sense to the kid. She hasn't answered yet....
(It's impossible to count blocks, starting ON some block and passing
through the zero point, and get the right answer iff there IS a "block
called 'zero'" in the line.)
To wit:
B B B B B ['zero'] B B B B B
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11
(*Not!*)
What whole integer equals the number of blocks between -5 and +5?
It sure as hell ain't _eleven_.
[-5,+5] =/= 11.
JB> Moreover, I need to understand why it seems to be the case
JB> that I can't map a discrete math onto a continuous one without
JB> "losing information."
RC> It's becoming clear that you parrot people (this time, Chris Hughes).
I didn't "parrot" him; I _quoted_ him.
(And you didn't offer any clarifications, I see....)
RC> JB>> Sure! "I disseminate mathematical misinformation."
RC> Congratulations. To admit that you have a problem is the most
RC> important step in learning to overcome it.
JB> See the quotes?
JB> I was asked to say something.
JB> I said it.
RC> So if someone pulls your string, you turn into a Liar Appleton?
If someone pulls my string over and over again, like a dog worrying a
bone, I can get fed up and hand him what he asked for merely to get him
off my back, yes. It'd have been a "lie" if I _hadn't_ put it in
quotes. As it was, it was merely evasion.
RC> Now that's pretty pathetic. At least you did manage to tell the
RC> truth while so carefully distancing yourself from it.
(*grin*) "The truth" is oft a relative thing....
"Disseminating" and "exploring" or "discussing" are not the same thing.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Your logic is flawed; evacuate your premises immediately.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: John Brawley
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: !
|Date: 11 Mar 97 10:00:14
EID:60b4 226b5000
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 1e3d70e9
REPLY: 1:3603/210 455b6796
On 09 Mar 97, ROBERT CURRY wrote:
RC> RC>> So who was it that hated you enough to suggest Berlinski?
RC> JB>> I saw a blurb in _Science_News_, which I trust, and bought it.
RC> So you fall for ads, but balk at doing a little research at a
RC> library.
JB> You don't respect _Science_News_ enough to suppose it doesn't
JB> print frivolous ads?
RC> Do you know the difference between a paid advertisement and a book
RC> review, John?
Do you know how to answer a clear question? Did you miss seeing the
word "ads" in my sentence?
JB> I take responsibility for _everything_ I do.
RC> You hide it well.
It's nobody's business but my own.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: jbrawley@jcn1.com (ISP account)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... When all think alike, then no one is thinking.
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