God Damned Fundies!
|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Shleby Sherman
|Sub: Harry Truman.
|Date: 23 Mar 97 10:06:02
EID:50b3 227750c0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89dd4304
Hi Shelby,
(Re: yours of 16-Mar-1997, "Harry Truman.")
LA> __________________________________
LA> 1 Georges Cuvier, Essay on the Theory of the Earth (5th ed;
LA> 1827) (English translation of Discours sur les revolutions de
LA> la surface du globe), pp.13-14.
LA> 2 Ibid., p.15 3 Ibid., p.20
LA> 3 G.F. Wright, The Ice Age in North America and Its Bearing
LA> upon the Antiquity of Man (5th ed; 1911), pp. 238-39.
LA> 4 E.H. Shackleton, The Heart of the Antarctic, II (1909),
LA> illustration opposite p. 293.
LA> -+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+---
LA> (Earth in Upheaval, Immanuel Velkiovsky, 1956, p. 13-14)
LA> ================= oooooooooooooooo =======================
LA> Feel free to ask for more similar contributions which,
LA> with luck might not only better inform you but might also
LA> beneficially effect your manners!
SS> Thanks for reinforcing the fact that you are enamoured
SS> with old books, Idiot. Now, what does any contemporary
SS> geology text state about the marine fossils in the
SS> Himalayas?
My guess is that "contemporary geology" does NOT say
anything about these facts, because they have been
altogether too EMBARRSSING to their delusions about the
alleged great age of the earth. You see, even some
evolutionists are disgusted at the way evolutionists have
acted for all too long. Evolutionist themselves such as G.R.
Taylor in his book entitled; THE GREAT EVOLUTION MYSTERY
(1983) say;
'Progress has been prevented by the rigid dogmatism of the
Neo-Darwinians and it is quite significant that the first
crack in the structure they erected has come on the subject
of 'punctuation'. That is, on the question: is evolution
gradual or do abrupt discontinuities occur. As Professor
Rupert Riedl of Vienna puts it: "Most of the unexplained
phenomena in macro-evolution were first minimised, then
swept under the carpet and finally forgotten.'
(p. 245 - see also p 24, 103 & 165)
Now IF you can find anything in modern texts that REFUTE
the facts that were so evident in the early 1900's as dealt
with in my reference to Velikovsky's work, then please put
them forward. I predict, of course, that you know of NONE!
Laurie
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: Creation Largely Vindicated!
|Date: 23 Mar 97 10:07:10
EID:4b74 227750e0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89dd4396
Hi Shelby,
(Re: yours of 16-Mar-1997, "Harry Truman.")
SS> Please cite any plausible reference that attributes
SS> this event to Noah's flood.
Since I did not mention the flood in this message then
your reference to it is interesting. Apparently you
recognise that such things would be a logical part of such a
world wide flood.
What, however is significant is that for at least 120
years the evolutionists, following Hutton, Lyell and Darwin,
believe and taught that "The Present is the Key to the Past"
and this was a belief that was supposed to prove that there
never could have been a world wide flood, since that would
have been a total breach of this supposedly "scientific"
rule!
So the existence of any sort of "discontinuity" such as
those referred to was something to be "suppressed" or
ignored or just "swept under the carpet" and THAT is
probably why you have apparently never heard of such things.
Today, however, coincidental (!) with that decade of
debates, which the evolutionists have admitted that the
Creationists almost always WON, we have had a significant
"rehabilitation" of the CATASTROPHISM that existed at the
time when Darwin wrote his ORIGINS book and which was widely
accepted by the geologists of that time.
It is obvious that evolutionists have been teaching a
FALSE scientific fairy tale for all that time and even now
there is a major breach of OPINION in the evolutionary
fraternity over this very question. One group is called the
ULTRA DARWINISNS and the other is the PUNCTUATED EQUILIBRIAN
group. One still accepts that the "Present is the Key to the
Past" and the other denies it totally!
The Creationists are delighted to find that, after all
these years that CATASTROPHISM has again achieved a major
following, to say nothing of the fact that Sudden Appearance
and Stasis (stability of species) too has also achieved a
major following. These three things were always major
principles of Creationism of course!
Thus creation science has in fact been largely vindicated
on these major and central principles! Evolutionism, however
has achieved such a stranglehold in Education and the Media
that we can be sure that it will take a long time yet before
the truth begins to come through.
Historically it seems that the older "die-hard" generation
of evolutionists will have to DIE-OUT before the younger and
better informed generation takes over!
"Dr. Raup [a respected evolutionist] seemed to think that
there was a general revolution going on in evolutionary
thinking. In fact he wrote a section for a 1980 yearbook for
the World Book Encyclopedia that was entitled Revolution In
Evolution."
'In his 1979 interview, he had this to say about hopeful
monsters and punctuated equilibria:'
All of the authors of the neo-Darwinian theory
which they formulated back in the thirties and
forties are losing their influence. They are
getting old and dying off. I predict that that
whole concept will be thrown out in the next ten
years and a new theory will be devised to take its
place. A new wave of thinking is sweeping the field.
(Darwin's Enigma, Fossils and Other Problems, Luther D.
Sunderland, 1988, p.100).
Laurie
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Harry Truman.
|Date: 23 Mar 97 10:07:52
EID:ce26 227750e0
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89dd43ea
Hi Martin,
(Re: yours of 15-Mar-1997, "Harry Truman.")
LA> "It has frequently happened that lands which have been laid
LA> dry, have been again covered by the waters, in consequence
LA> either of their being engulfed in the abyss, or of the sea
MG> Then why does the famous creationist Laurie Appleton say:
MG> "That is one of the joys of evolutionism isn't it? Since
MG> it ... makes a Creator superfluous, that leaves you
MG> free."
MG> "It provides a motivation for accepting evolution."
Do you mean that that is NOT one of your reasons for
embracing evolutionism? Neither you, nor Darwin, nor anyone
else has ever had and FACTS that support evolution, so there
MUST be some NON-FACTUAL basis for such a stupid theory. Did
you disagree with your atheist "better", Aldous Huxley, who
wrote (as I have already pointed out) that;
"I had motives for not wanting the world to have meaning;
consequently assumed it had none, and was able without
difficulty to find satisfying reasons for this assumption...
The philosopher who finds no meaning in the world is not
concerned exclusively with a problem in pure metaphysics; he is
also concerned to prove there is no valid reason why he
personally should not do as he wants to do...."
"For myself, as no doubt for most of my contemporaries, the
philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an instrument of
liberation from a certain system of morality. We objected to
the morality because it interfered with our sexual freedom."
("Confessions of a Professed Atheist," Report: Perspectives
on the News, Vol. 3, June, 1966, p. 19, as found in, King of
Creation, Morris, p.82)
So wasn't that YOUR "motive" too Martin? Doesn't your
evolutionism appear to "make you "free"" and provide you an
EXCUSE for doing many things that you 'want' to do but which
you must really know you shoul NOT do?
You might be able to fool yourself with such vain
imaginings, but it is more than likely that you will NOT be
able to fool the Creator, when the 'crunch' comes! But don't
try to say the nobody tried to warn you!
Laurie
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: A Toast to Dracula.
|Date: 23 Mar 97 10:08:32
EID:c511 22775100
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89dd4443
Hi Martin,
(Re: yours of 15-Mar-1997, "A Toast to Dracula.")
LA> "The fact of evolution is the backbone of biology, and
LA> biology is thus in the peculiar position of being a science
LA> founded on an unproved theory -- is it then a science or a
LA> faith? Belief in the theory of evolution is thus exactly
LA> parallel to belief in special creation -- both are concepts
LA> which believers know to be true but neither, up to the
LA> present, has been capable of proof."
LA> (L.Harrison Matthews, FRS, Introduction to Darwin's The
LA> Origin of Species, J.M.Dent & Sons Ltd, London, 1971, p. xi)
MG> Then why does the famous creationist Laurie Appleton say:
"Famous" eh?? My statement was, of course stated as a
QUESTION!
MG> "That is one of the joys of evolutionism isn't it? Since
MG> it ... makes a Creator superfluous, that leaves you
MG> free."
MG> "It provides a motivation for accepting evolution."
Don't try to tell me that you have accepted evolution on
purely scientific grounds, since there IS none and Molecular
Biologists are making this plain. The scientific evidence is
constantly and consistently pointing to INTELLIGENT DESIGN,
which means that there was necessarily an intelligent
Designer!
So long as you have become convinced that all life arose
by a "fortituous concourse of atoms" then you have been
scientifically WRONG or mislead or indoctrinated. You can
blame evolutionists themselves for THAT state of affairs, but
it does NOT justify your continuing to believe such nonsense
now that you are a "big boy" and presumably now able to
think for yourself!?
Did you ever try "thinking for yourself" or do you realise
that you would necessarily have to REJECT most of what you
have been taught, and then be subjected to the sort of
outrageous personal abuse that evolutionists, such as
yourself, heap upon those who DO think for themselves!
So what is it to be with you? The scientific truth, or keep
your well paid job and live a scientific LIE?
Laurie
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: A Toast to Dracula.
|Date: 23 Mar 97 10:09:14
EID:192b 22775120
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89dd449f
Hi Ed,
(Re: yours of 16-Mar-1997, "A Toast to Dracula.")
LA> How could a "fortituous concourse of atoms" even have such
LA> a thing as "consciousness" anyway?
EM> Science is still figuring that out while the rest of the
EM> population, lacking the necessary critical thought
EM> faculties, invents fairies and demons to take the place of
EM> understanding.
It seems that you mean that "science" is still trying to
figure out how it could be possible for "consciousness" to
exist WITHOUT the necessity of an INTELLIGENT DESIGNER,
rather than accepting the fact that the obvious answer is
that there is necessarily an Intelligent Designer!
So why do you choose to believe that NO Intelligent
Designer exists, or that there is some remote possibility
that it all happened by accident and chance? Your choice
cannot be based on valid SCIENTIFIC reasonings and so it
must be based on some UNSCIENTIFIC biases!
So what are these 'BIASES' that seem to stifle your
rational thinking processes? Could it be 'hormonal'
imperatives that really underlie your choice of beliefs?
LA> How could renovated Orangutan brains have any understanding
LA> of "right and wrong"?
EM> Is that what all this is about? You're terrified that
EM> you might indeed be the descendant of an orangutan? Well,
EM> let me comfort you here: Humans aren't the descendants of
EM> apes. They evolved simultaneously from a common ancestor.
EM> Feel better now?
You seem VERY confident of that, but how do YOU or anybody
else KNOW such things? What was this "common ancestor" that
you are talking about? Has THAT actually been found? What
did it look like?
LA> Do atheist scientists find atoms and molecules that
LA> provide a code of conduct? Who says that stealing, lying and
LA> murdering are "right or wrong". Surely you are not
LA> suggesting that such understandings have somehow become
LA> built into out bodies in some way? Where is the evidence of
LA> this? What portion of our DNA encodes for such things?
EM> You're living on a planet which is liberally endowed
EM> with profound evidence that ethics is a higher mammalian
EM> invention.
Do you mean that our alleged (still not found) "common
ancestor" had a high moral code? What was it? Has it been
found scratched on some cave wall or something?
EM> Just find yourself an atheist or two. Take a look,
EM> sometime, at the record of oppression and atrocities
EM> committed by theists over the centuries. Then try to find
EM> anything even remotely comparable from any group of
EM> atheists.
My my my. THAT *IS* and easy one! What about Karl Marx,
Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin, Mao-Tse-Tung, Pol Pot, Fidel
Castro etc etc. Weren't they all Atheists? These atheists
were the cause of the worst oppression the world has ever
known. Against that you don't honestly mean to say that
those who operated the Inquisition in the Dark Ages were
"theists" surely? It was the real theists that they were
burning and torturing and mutilating!
Laurie
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: A Toast to Dracula (b).
|Date: 23 Mar 97 10:10:00
EID:da87 22775140
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89dd4500
Hi Ed,
(Re: yours of 16-Mar-1997, "A Toast to Dracula.")
EM> Also, don't forget that this is how logical debate
EM> works: The person who makes the claim has the burden of the
EM> evidence. I don't have to show evidence that your claim is
EM> false. You have to show evidence that it is true. I know
EM> this sounds like elementary lecturing, but you've apparently
EM> forgotten these basic tenets of argument - so I thought I'd
EM> give 'em a quick rehash.
Then why have you made a number of claims about apes and
man having come from a common ancestor and have NOT shown
any evidence for your claims?
EM> Do you have physical evidence for creation that can be
EM> held up to the light in the same way as the mountains of
EM> physical evidence for evolution? Not even a speck? Just one
EM> molecule? Oh, well.
The mostly lowly Bacteria is evidence of Creation, just
as every form of life is as well. Now that our technology
has advanced so much in recent years and we have been able
to actually SEE the construction of even the single celled
animals, even more and more evolutionists are now starting
to admit that the theory of INTELLIGENT DESIGN can no longer
be avoided!
One specialist in this field, puts it this way;
"In every direction the biochemist gazes, as he journeys
through this weird molecular labyrinth, he sees devices and
appliances reminiscent of our own twentieth-century world of
advanced technology. In the atomic fabric of life we have found
a reflection of our own technology. We have seen a world as
artificial as our own and as familiar as if we held up a mirror
to our own machines."
"Paley was not only right in asserting the existence of
an analogy between life and machines, but was also
remarkably prophetic in guessing that the technological
ingenuity realized in living systems is vastly in excess of
anything yet accomplished by man."
"Every indication of contrivance, every manifestation
of design which existed in a watch exists in the works of
nature with the difference, on the side of nature, being
greater and more, and that in a degree which exceeds all
computation ... yet in a multitude of cases, are not less
evidently mechanical, not less evidently contrivances,...
than are the most perfect productions of human ingenuity."
("Life's Irreducible Structure", M. Polanyi, (1968),
SCIENCE, 160: 1308-12)
"The almost irrestible force of the analogy has completely
undermined the complacent assumption, prevalent in biological
circles over most of the past century, that the design
hypothesis can be excluded on the grounds that the notion is
fundamentally a metaphysical A PRIORI concept and therefore
scientifically unsound."
"On the contrary, the inference to design is purely a
POSTERIORI induction based on a ruthlessly consistent
application of the logic of analogy. The conclusion may have
religious implications, but it does not depend on religious
presuppositions."
(EVOLUTION: A Theory in Crisis, Michael Denton, 1985,
p.341)
Laurie
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: A Toast to Dracula (c).
|Date: 23 Mar 97 10:10:36
EID:1ad6 22775140
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89dd4549
Hi Ed,
(Re: yours of 16-Mar-1997, "A Toast to Dracula.")
LA> It is an axiom of life that "where there is no law then
LA> there is no sin"!
EM> My point exactly, with one additional factor: Where
EM> there are no people, there is no law or sin.
So we see then that your fascination with evolution is
NOT because it is scientifically valid, but because it is
based on the doctrine of chance random processes and
promotes the belief in the MEANINGLESSNESS of all life.
It seems more than a guess that you, like the famous
atheist Aldous Huxley have an UNSCIENTIFIC desire to accept
that the world has NO meaning and thus you imagine that that
leaves you "free" to act as you please and without
responsible restraint. Evolution then appears to be your
EXCUSE for your life style and you are not really keen to
look to closely at it in case you find that your "excuse" is
a phoney!
[. . . .]
EM> Good. I'll know where to get my justification, should I
EM> ever have the christianic desire to burn witches or buttfuck
EM> choirboys!
Are you really trying to tell me that you honestly believe
such things are WRONG? If so then where does this "right and
wrong" business come from in an evolutionary world of
meaninglessness? Just saying that "higher mammals invented"
right and wrong does not prove anything does it?
So do ALL atheists have a STANDARD set of "rights and
wrongs", somewhat after the style of the TEN COMMANDMENTS, or
do they all make up their own rules, which are known only to
themselves and which probably contradict some of the rules
that the others have made up?
Laurie
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|From: Laurie Appleton
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Your Financial Distress!
|Date: 23 Mar 97 10:11:24
EID:0c2c 22775160
MSGID: 3:640/238@Fidonet 89dd45b0
Hi Rod,
(Re: yours of 15-Mar-1997, "Alternative or Straw.")
RS> Your bible commands you to give me all your assets and
RS> wealth, should I request it. You best admit you're lucky
RS> that I respect your charity and only ask you to send a book
RS> worth a few bucks.
Does that mean that you are so stripped of money that you
cannot even afford a few bucks!!
LA> However there is a contact in Perth, West Astralia that
LA> might be your best and easiet way to get yourself a copy.
LA> The details that I have are;
LA> Mr. Chang-Sha Fang or Mr. Russell Jones
RS> Are they having a homosexual relationship?
Why do you ask? Is that what you are looking for?
LA> Phone and Fax (09) 472-3931
LA> Bookshop at;
LA> 62 McMillan St.
LA> VICTORIA PARK.
RS> I scoped this place the other day. Looked *very very*
RS> sinister!
Did it indeed. Then you were wise NOT to go in, weren't
you? So, if you are so keen to get a copy of the REVISED
QUOTE BOOK then what is stopping you writing them a letter
and asking them to post you one. You DO have a credit card,
don't you??
However, if you are as "dead-broke" as you seem to make
out, then why haven't you saved some of the quotes that I
have already posted to you? In any case here is number ONE
for you to start on!
"You will be greatly disappointed (by the forthcoming
book); it will be grievously too hypothetical. It will very
likely be of no other service than collocating some facts;
though I myself think I see my way approximately on the
origin of the species. But, alas, how frequent, how almost
universal it is in an author to persuade himself of the
truth of his own dogmas."
(Charles Darwin, 1858, in a letter to a colleague regarding
the concluding chapters of his Origin of Species. As
quoted in "John Lofton's Journal", The Washington Times,
8 February 1984.)
There, got that? Try to remind me to send you the next one
each time you send a message to me eh? :-)
Laurie
--- Ezycom V1.48g0 01fd016b
* Origin: Fox's Lair BBS Bris Aus +61-7-38033908 V34+ Node 2 (3:640/238)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Randi
|Date: 23 Mar 97 19:49:10
EID:41c5 22779e20
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3335896f
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 774f211d
PID: GED3 3.0.a4 261LM7
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Martin!
Saturni dies March 22 1997, Dixit Martin Goldberg ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> Don't forget: Randi's hosting a two hour special on hoaxes on
SQ>> A&E on Easter Sunday.
MG> I don't get cable. You won't mind taping it and mailing it to me would
MG> you?
I plan on taping it, so it's up to you to arrange the next dinner so I can
let you borrow the tape. Bring Leipzig too, unless he's off converting
to Christ somewhere.
MG> Send me a nice cigar or two to smoke with it and xome micro pocorn
MG> and a fifth of single malt while you're at it.
I'll shit you a nice cigar.
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha4+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: George L. Harper
|Sub: ARROGANCE
|Date: 22 Mar 97 13:20:32
EID:4ad4 22766a80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3333dca0
-> On 21 Mar 97 03:33:12, George L. Harper got back to Becke Boyer
BB> On 18 Mar 97 11:06pm, GEORGE HARPER wrote to DON MARTIN:
GLH> you afraid Don isn't up to confronting me on his own??
Are you afraid that if someone else comments on your messages
that the Tooth Fairy won't visit you any more?
... A brain destroyed by religion is no match for reasoning humans.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: CLONES
|Date: 22 Mar 97 13:28:10
EID:f16c 22766b80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 3333de6a
-> On 21 Mar 97 06:51:51, Becke Boyer got back to Ed Mills
EM>> We now return to our regularly scheduled autoeroticism.
MO>> Yes please. (Now if I only knew what it meant).
EM> Cuffing the carrot.
EM> Mounting a coach and five.
EM> Playing tug-of-war with Cyclops.
EM> Polishing the helmet.
BB> Shooting putty at the moon.
BB> Choking the chicken.
BB> Spanking the weasel.
Just what is the Priapas of this thread? Onan-know what to say.
... Deja Voodo: Have I sacrificed this chicken before?
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: George L. Harper
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 22 Mar 97 21:15:22
EID:378b 2276a9e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33344bea
-> On 21 Mar 97 03:03:07, George L. Harper got back to Christopher Hughes
GLH> policy applies to THEM??? Maybe they feel that it means don't ask
the
GLH> suspected gay about it, and don't tell on him if you find out?
Joe McCarthy would be just so proud of you.
... God's only excuse is that he does not exist.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: 'First Cause' Crap
|Date: 23 Mar 97 13:30:41
EID:32d2 22776bc0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33353081
-> On 20 Mar 97 03:25:45, John Brawley got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> Sorry, John, but you are mixing black apples with orange oranges.
JB> I been tryin' t'point out that fact (incompatible counting
JB> methodologies) for quite a while now.... That 'zero block' makes some
JB> things work. Other things get screwed up if it's in there.
You still don't get it, do you John. It's not the counting that
is incompatable, it's how you are trying to define what you
cant to count.
... "I'd connect the dots for you, but only 1/2 of yours are numbered" Jj
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: George L. Harper
|Sub: Arrogant Apologies
|Date: 23 Mar 97 13:44:46
EID:f61d 22776d80
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 333533ce
-> On 21 Mar 97 03:25:15, George L. Harper got back to Don Martin
GLH> discrepance of exactly 24 hours. If you read the Old Testament,
you
GLH> can find the explanation for that anomaly: there are two instances
GLH> when God stopped the flow of time...once at the request of Elijah,
for
GLH> just a few minutes short of a day, and once at the request of a king
GLH> of Israel for a time that completed the 24 hours. THIS is the
Care to try to show that the Israelites could count let alone
tell time with such accuracy? After all, they couldn't even
come up with an accurate value for Pi.
... In thine ignorance, thou shalt remain ignorant. Praise be!
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Baby burning in Hell
|Date: 23 Mar 97 13:48:35
EID:8b3d 22776e00
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 333534b3
-> On 21 Mar 97 03:45:00, DAVID RICE got back to DAN CEPPA
>>KD> I found *birth* to be disgusting. Shall I outlaw
>>KD> that?
>JS> The pro-choicers have already tried and suceeded in
>JS> doing that.
DR> tens of thousands occur in the USA. Are all these people
DR> being fined or jailed?! Wow! Who would have known, without
DR> James cluing us?
That's because they are doing their best to sweep it under
the rug. All of those births are now occuring in back alleys,
out of sight of the law.
... Only in revealed religion does mistranslation improve the sense.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: George L. Harper
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 23 Mar 97 13:59:33
EID:2267 22776f60
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33353745
-> On 21 Mar 97 02:36:17, George L. Harper got back to Roger Hunter
RH> You know, things like a recognisable layer of rock containing
RH> remains of every living thing, of all ages.
GLH> Okay...so I'm violating my own stance re: intervention in postings.
GLH> I just HAD to avail myself of this opportunity.
Is that before or after you unzipped your pants?
GLH> Roger, did you ever take a course in geology, at any reputable
GLH> institution of higher learning ? I presume not,
If you did, you sure as hell didn't learn anything.
GLH> because there IS geologic evidence that supports the world-wide flood.
Which is?
GLH> Much of it was unearthed right here in Colorado, not too many miles
GLH> distant from your home...sme of it as recently as the onstruction
of
GLH> the I-70 corridor thru the western slope area. Fossils of sea-born
GLH> creatures, deposits of obvious marine sediment, etc. All of which goes
GLH> to prove how poorly you research your claims.
Just how many mastodons where discovere there? How many sabre
tooth tigers? What about horses and dinosaurs? Any human remains
in that strata?
GLH> FYI: I got my "scientific evidence" from a TA at Metro State,
Gee, that's so impressive. I bet you are personal friends
with David Fasold as well.
GLH> as you are - remember to include in your disdain the physical
GLH> evidence located on top of a mountain called Ararat, located in
That's even more impressive. Tell us about the 4 lane highway
that goes to the top of Agra Dagi.
GLH> description to one attributed to Noah's Shipyards, and apparently
GLH> built at about the same time.
That should read "Noah's Bullshit and Yards of it".
GLH> back into your hole, little man, or I'll turn the unicorns loose on
GLH> you...
Yes, that right. They are mentioned in the bible. They also
have the same validity as your god.
... In other words, George L. Harper, you're full of shit.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 23 Mar 97 14:13:07
EID:c5a0 227771a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33353a73
-> On 21 Mar 97 10:11:33, Marilyn Burge got back to Norman Solomon
NS> My version has it "but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge
NS> of good and evil, for when you eat of it you will surely die" Gen 2:17
MB> a falsehood. Just because no death was mentioned in Genesis
MB> prior to A&E eating the fruit means nothing. We have all sorts
Moreso, the Hebrews did not view plants as living. They equated
them as part of the earth and not living matter. The death of
Abel by Cain is probably the only instance of a nomadic based
myth winning out over an agricultural one.
... +Origin: John McBrawley's McQuantum McLiquor Store.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Hypocritical people
|Date: 23 Mar 97 14:17:53
EID:1472 22777220
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33353b91
-> On 19 Mar 97 08:29:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Richard Smith
RS> ky> Brine a fundy
RS> RS> Eeeewwww, born again gerkins . . .
RS> DC> Close: The correct spelling is 'jerk-ins'.
RS> MB> You're both wrong. It's "gherkins."
RS> DC> Go ahead, Marilyn, ruin a perfectly good pun thread by
RS> DC> insisting on proper spelling. That isn't Kosher, my dill.
RS> DC> You'll find you are really in a pickle, now.
RS> You're relishing this, aren't you?
KW> As puns go, you piccalilli, didn't you.
If you use it as a sex aid, does that make it a piccadildo?
... "Go forth and hassle all nations."
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Ken Young: Poster child
|Date: 23 Mar 97 14:21:52
EID:ff02 227772a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33353c80
-> On 20 Mar 97 13:24:34, Ken Young got back to Shelby Sherman
SS> O.K., fundie, what if a group of us decided that ritualized cannibalism
SS> by way of eating the body of christ and drinking his blood was a threat
SS> to decency?
KY> That probably would be, but fortunately I don't know of anyone that
KY> does such a thing. The flesh and blood of communion, is symbolic.
Yep. It's symbolic of ritual cannibalism. Jeffrey Dahmer took it
the the extreme.
... "Jesus has a temper tantrum and screams 'EAT ME!": Sam Kineson
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Moin Hallo Hi
|Date: 23 Mar 97 14:29:58
EID:c7dc 227773a0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33353e66
-> On 20 Mar 97 03:15:00, Sue Armstrong got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> I've got nothing against sports. It's just that sports _must_
DC> take a back seat to EDUCATION.
SA> Well, gee, Dan! Don't you know sports are cool and learning isn't?
The implication was there when I was in HS and still is.
SA> With sports, you can be a big hero, get all the girlz, and be
SA> ridiculously rich, famous, and above the law like OJ. With
Which is also rediculous, but true.
SA> education, you get to be like that Urkel kid. Where's the choice
Any signs of intelligence do seem to be downplayed lately. It's
not what you know but how many baskets you can make.
SA> I bet a lot of slack-jawed ignoramuses were really sweating when the
SA> colleges said they were going to actually make their football
SA> players attend class (I wonder if they actually DO?)
I think that most schools have started actually educating their
jocks, but I doubt that most of them worry much about what type
of actual education they are given.
SA> Perhaps we could use a new sport, though - Rollerball.
The non-rules version would be a good way of weeding out the
brain-dead, for sure.
... In the Beginning, God rolled a 20 on the Random World Generation Table
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: More fucking christians
|Date: 23 Mar 97 14:31:51
EID:c5a5 227773e0
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33353ed7
-> On 19 Mar 97 08:29:00, Katherine Wintersnight got back to Richard Smith
RS> Asmodeus Variation: Multiple curses fired at opponent loop
KW> Oddly enough, Asmodiddly showed up in #holysmoke, claimed that he's
KW> gone beyond the satanism, and that was all a bit joke although he took
Most likely, he's gone around the corner and looking to try to
go off of the deep end.
... Nuke Barney from orbit - it's the only way to be sure.
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: The Jesus was homosexual
|Date: 23 Mar 97 14:34:32
EID:ae15 22777440
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33353f78
-> On 20 Mar 97 21:39:04, Ken Young got back to Rod Swift
KY> No, I don't. For the most part, I am not for laws on sex, drugs,
KY> whatever.
So, you are for homosexaul marriage laws. How progessive of you!
... I'm pink, therefore I'm spam. --- Rene De Caryout
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: George L. Harper
|Sub: You forgot to answer this
|Date: 23 Mar 97 14:36:41
EID:03d9 22777480
PID: OMX 1.00.DOS [NR]
MSGID: 1:123/67.5 33353ff9
-> On 21 Mar 97 02:50:22, George L. Harper got back to Christopher Hughes
GLH> (are you excited yet, ALP?). His phobia was so deeply rooted that
he
GLH> went to extraordinary lengths to `purify' himself, including
Yep, and he learned the "purification" as well as the bigotry
from the xian bible.
... I'm deserving of death because of my Lord. - Jerry Wilcox
--- OMX/Blue Wave v2.12
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: DAVID RICE
|Sub: Baptists Hate MickeyMouse
|Date: 21 Mar 97 11:26:28
EID:22f2 22755b40
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 773e164e
On Mar 17 08:35 97, DAVID RICE of 1:124/9005 wrote:
DR> RELIGIONS can demand a lot of their followers, but the
DR> Southern Baptist Convention has demanded the impossible of
DR> its 16 million members.
Fuckin' A...
It's finally happened. I agree with the Southern Baptists on an
issue. (Albeit for completely different reasons.)
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: David Ragland
|Sub: Anti-Murder Activity
|Date: 21 Mar 97 11:32:08
EID:3ffc 22755c00
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 773e2328
REPLY: 1:3800/49 0001b307
On Mar 13 13:44 97, David Ragland of 1:3800/49 wrote:
DR> The national effort is dubbed "God Is Going Back To School" and
DR> represents a major change in focus for the OR group. In the
DR> past, Operation Rescue has centered its protests on abortion
DR> clinics Planned Parenthood offices, using blockages, sit-ins and
DR> other forms of civil disobedience. Our prayers are needed to
DR> assist these Christian soldiers. Let's get to it!
You mean you're going to start shooting teachers
as well as doctors?
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: All
|Sub: This could be the start of another list...
|Date: 21 Mar 97 11:35:20
EID:7bec 22755c60
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 773eead6
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 33302288
On Mar 19 17:29 97, Ken Young of 1:270/420 wrote:
CH>> You know the one, kids, sing along!
CH>> (Sung to the tune of "Jesus Loves Me")
CH>> "Satan loves me, this I know,
CH>> For the voices tell me so!
CH>> To the Dark One we belong;
CH>> Sell your soul and you'll be strong!"
Xenu loves me, this I know,
High above the volcano.
Thetans all to him belong.
Hubbard's weak, but Xenu's strong.
Chthulu loves me this I know,
For the Necronomicon tells me so.
On a cracker I belong.
Or in a broth, I cant go wrong.
Trivia: Who wrote and still holds the copy right on the
Jesus and still holds the copyright?
Answer:
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: This could be the start of another list...
|Date: 21 Mar 97 13:39:44
EID:c339 22756ce0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 773f4fed
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 773eead6
On Mar 21 11:35 97, J.J. Hitt of 1:106/9788.2 wrote:
JH> Trivia: Who wrote and still holds the copy right on the
JH> Jesus and still holds the copyright?
Damnitalltohell...
I messed up both the question and the answer...
That should read:
Who wrote and still holds the copyright on the Jesus Loves Me
song?
JH> Answer:
Answer: Qnyr Rinaf (Ebl Ebqtre'f byq ynql.)
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Re: J.J. NEEDS TO BE
|Date: 21 Mar 97 13:48:54
EID:d9ea 22756e00
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 773f62f7
On Mar 21 21:54 97, Christopher Hughes of 1:124/9005 wrote:
CH> The traditional enemy of the Garou is the Weaver, not the
CH> Wyrm. And only by cutting back the Weaver to a manageable
CH> size can the Wyrm become unentangled and then healed. I hate
CH> to say it, but the Red Talons are right.
I knew it was just a matter of time before all this
animorphism went too far.
You both need to be dewormed.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Re: J.J. needs to be Hitt
|Date: 21 Mar 97 13:51:08
EID:055a 22756e60
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 773f682c
On Mar 21 22:09 97, Christopher Hughes of 1:124/9005 wrote:
CH> What do you think the benediction before
CH> every football game and graduation ceremony is?
Dear Lord, bless this celebration of violence in which we
are about to partake...
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Bill Gates
|Date: 21 Mar 97 13:56:16
EID:3b0f 22756f00
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 773f73b4
REPLY: 1:124/9005 332c745a
On Mar 16 22:28 97, Steve Quarrella of 1:124/9005 wrote:
SQ> W I N D O W S 95
SQ> 87+73+78+68+79+87+83+57+53+1 = 666
^^
Plus one?
Where did that come from?
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: MEGGEROMANIA
|Date: 21 Mar 97 19:41:06
EID:93aa 22759d20
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 7742ad60
On Mar 17 09:43 97, Roger Hunter of 1:104/251 wrote:
EM>> They are much more important than us, therefore we had better
EM>> just stay the fuck out of their way.
RH> Betcher ass. Them roads is built BY us, FOR us. Keep yer
RH> damn toys outen th' way!
Seems to me, that yer gasoline taxes aren't enough to cover
the cost of road construction. The general fund (which I pay
into) pays the bulk of road construction costs.
Down here in Texas the matter has been settled by law. A
bicycle is a vehicle (any careful examination of the word
would show this anyway). Hence, bikes DO NOT belong on the
sidewalks, are expected to signal and observe all the
traffic restrictions other vehicles are bound too.
Admittedly, enforcement is lax. But I would love to see the
sidewalk riders ticketed. (Now if we could just get the damned
joggers out in the street also...)
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: USA CyberCensor's Law
|Date: 21 Mar 97 19:55:18
EID:f654 22759ee0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 7742df1f
REPLY: 1:270/420.0 332c6da8
On Mar 16 22:01 97, Ken Young of 1:270/420 wrote:
FR>> The Branch Davidians were just as Christian as you are;
FR>> just as the Aryan Nations, Church of Jesus Christ
FR>> Christian, Cross and the Sword, Mormons, et al. are.
KY> Yes, the Branch Davidians were Christians, but I cannot say
KY> the same for the rest of the groups you mentioned.
You may not be able to, but I sure as hell can. Each and
every group gives Jesus Christ a central position of special
status in their belief system. Simply put: they are Christian.
KY> Try researching what they believe, before you start making such
KY> claims.
I have, Jelly. I have. And I've been doing it for about 25 years
now. I was studying the enemy long before you ever heard of the
folks who are now filling your brain with shit.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Eat Coke!
|Date: 21 Mar 97 20:14:52
EID:b151 2275a1c0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 7742f2a2
REPLY: 1:207/212 f362be6e
SA>> Frankly, I find a constant small supply of sugar ingestion
SA>> _helpful_, and the worst thing the nutritionist said to me
SA>> was "don't eat sugar".
Which is basically what you do when you drink a coke.
There's 38 grams of sugar in each can. That's roughly
(very roughly, I dont have a calculator in reach) a
pound of sugar in every 12 pack.
Of course, I'm just as guilty as anyone. I used to drink
beer like a fish, now that I'm sober the craving for
alcohol is gone but the oral fixation remains. I can easily
go through a 12 pack a day on weekends.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: All
|Sub: Re: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 21 Mar 97 20:45:14
EID:5dd4 2275a5a0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 774337a6
REPLY: 1:104/447 28899655
On Mar 21 07:36 97, George L. Harper of 1:104/447 wrote:
GLH> Roger, did you ever take a course in geology, at any
GLH> reputable institution of higher learning ?
GLH> I presume not, because there IS geologic evidence that
GLH> supports the world-wide flood. Much of it was unearthed
GLH> right here in Colorado, not too many miles distant from
GLH> your home...sme of it as recently as the onstruction of
GLH> the I-70 corridor thru the western slope area. Fossils of
GLH> sea-born creatures, deposits of obvious marine sediment,
GLH> etc. All of which goes to prove how poorly you research
GLH> your claims.
Has Leipzig seen this yet?
GLH> FYI: I got my "scientific evidence" from a TA at Metro
GLH> State, c1977-78. The TA was a certified petroleum geologist
GLH> working for Conoco. The course was "Introduction to
GLH> Geology" and I needed a science credit to complete my BS -
GLH> Applied Sciences degree.
I hope I'm not too late to catch the bloodbath.
This is going to be good.
GLH> If you DO choose the latter approach - as you well
GLH> might, untrained as you are - remember to include in
GLH> your disdain the physical evidence located on top of a
GLH> mountain called Ararat, located in central Turkey. It is
GLH> the remains..rather well preserved, due to the climate, of
GLH> a sea-going vessel quite astonishingly similar in
GLH> description to one attributed to Noah's Shipyards, and
GLH> apparently built at about the same time.
Very, very good indeed.
Four more years! - Live with it!
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Exemplifying examples 1/
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:27
EID:5626 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24a6
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
DC> KY>find such a thing very sick indeed. But, a majority of molesters
do
DC>appear t
DC> KY>be gay.
DC> KS> You are a liar.
DC>Have you gotten a reply from Ken on this yet?
Duh.
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ Damn! Failed third grade again. Can I be a fundy now?
-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
---
* Origin: CompuMate - Tulsa, OK (918)663-3454 (1:170/551)
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: George L. Harper
|Sub: clones
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:27
EID:c2c9 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24a7
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
GLH>KS> DNA, digestion and respiration.
GLH> Okay...where is the starting point? Where did the VERY FIRST DNA
strin
GLH> originate? What is the Genesis of all life forms to ever have existed
GLH> or that ever WILL exist? Go back as many aeons as you wish, but
isolate
I have neither the time nor inclination to give you an education in
science in general, or biology in particular. If you wish to discuss
such things, you'll have to first endeavor to gain a modicum of
expertise in the field(s).
GLH> courses. But maybe you're more learned than these "hacks" who do
nothing
GLH> more than push buttons and manipulate numbers for a living.
Amazing. You got something right.
GLH>KS> Bullshit. Frankenstein made his creature with a transplanted brain,
you
GLH>KS> moron.
GLH> Very well made point...how does it feel to be bested by someone
you name
GLH> as intellectually inferior? Want to play at semantics? I got
VERY
You congratulate me on a well-made point, and in the same sentence claim
I was 'bested'? You must be, in addition to a fundy, a crazy man.
GLH> high marks in my courses in college, but admittedly am a bit rusty...you
GLH> MAY stand a chance...if you can keep the outsiders from jumping
in and
GLH> confusing things.
There are no 'outsiders' here, you idiotic fuckstick.
GLH>HA> The center was dedicated to cloning in an attempt to recreate
Adolph
GLH>HA> Hitler. No experiments have been successful, to this point.
GLH>KS>
GLH>KS> Another idiotic fundy urban myth.
GLH> Dr. Mengele is a myth? Just like Jesus Christ (something Alan
Hess
GLH> claimed)??? Or are you denying that Herr Doktor was a biologic
GLH> researcher? What are you, some sort of Neo-Nazi, that you feel
you
GLH> have to defend such a monster?
Of course I am a Nazi. All you have to do is look at my name. That
should be sufficient evidence for a fundy moron.
GLH> Ignoranmus I may be, but I at least have MY FACTS straight...which
MIG
Uh huh. FOAD, idiot.
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ Burned any good books lately?
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:27
EID:e854 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24a8
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
MB>On (12 Mar 97) Karl Schneider babbled to Jim Staal...
MB>JS> This 'saul' you speak of didn't write the Book of Revelations.
MB> KS> Which has nothing to do with the above. You obviously don't know
MB> KS> your own book of myths.
MB>And the Bible doesn't contain a book of "revelations." Stall
MB>is even more ignorant than he'll ever imagine!
I have learned at least one thing since meeting some of these fundies...
that it *is* possible to be so stupid that they don't *know* they're
stupid.
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ Man, I have to piss! Where's Nixon's grave?
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:27
EID:c283 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24a9
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
JS> You have a god. The Bible says those who don't worship God,
worship the JS> god of this world: Satan.
JS>JS> KS> An obvious lie. I do not 'worship' any*one* or any*thing*.
You are
JS>JS> KS> full of shit as usual.
JS> KS> JS>s'cuse me!? Are you Rod Swift???? (same rule applies, however.
As
JS> KS> Bob JS>Dylan once so aptly put it, 'it might be the devil or it
might
JS> KS> be the JS>Lord, but you gotta serve somebody')
JS> KS> Horseshit. I do indeed 'serve' certain people (my customers).
JS> KS> Worship? No fucking way.
JS>Nah. (same rule applies, however. As Bob Dylan once so aptly put it,
JS>'it might be the devil or it might be the Lord, but you gotta _serve_
JS> somebody') See 'worship' in here anywhere, bright boy?
Yes, 'bright boy', I do. Your own words, as quoted above.
You are amazing, Jim. I have a hard time believing anyone could be
so abysmally fucking stupid as you, but I guess I could even be wrong about
*that*, as difficult as it is to imagine.
And, actually, Bob Dylan is a friend of mine. You are no Bob Dylan.
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ If your name is Smucker, you gotta be a bad motherfucker.
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Around the World in.. 2/
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:27
EID:491b 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24aa
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
JS> KS> JS>JS> You can't fire someone for being gay.
JS>JS> KS> You are a fucking liar.
JS> KS> JS>What country do you live in? There _are_ laws against
JS> KS> discrimination, JS>you know.
JS> KS> You are a moron.
JS>And you? How would you describe yourself?
Intelligent, charming, skilled; an entrepeneur, commercial pilot,
computer expert with a 10 inch dick.
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ I sent him a reality check, but he wouldn't cash it.
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Lon Mabon
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:27
EID:4e28 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24ab
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
JS>Oh, I have heard of this mislead 'Lon Mabon' feller, but there is no
Lon
JS>S. Mabon.
And I say you are a liar. I found one on the internet.
So fuck you, liar.
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ I used to play God, but he never learned to castle.
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Fundy Frolics 1/3
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:28
EID:3bf0 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24ac
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
JS> KS> JS>something your father might have done?
JS> KS> Of course not, you fucking moron.
JS> Me neither (of course, he did no wrong, rest his soul). BTW, a bit of
a
JS> problem articulating? Or is it just a lack of vocabulary that you have
JS> ot be so abusive?
I would be most happy to match vocabularies (or grammar, spelling,
sentence structure or syntax, or anything else pertaining to the proper
usage of the English language) with you, but I hesitate to engage an
adversary who's unarmed.
If that doesn't suit you, we could do it in Spanish, Italian, French,
Portuguese or Japanese.
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ He's not completely full of bullshit, 10% is regular shit
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Educational Experienc
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:28
EID:07f8 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24ae
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
JS> KS> to JS>first, second or third person (I, you he/she/it) and synopsis
JS> KS> deals with JS>tense (present, past, future, progressive, past-perfect,
JS> KS> future-perfect, JS>etc.)
JS> KS> No, idiot, that is ALL part of conjugation. Jesusfuckingchrist,
JS> KS> no WONDER you are so abysmally stupid. Someone needs to close down
JS> KS> that paper-mill you attended...
JS>Yiou are incorrect. My statement holds. I was, after all, an English
JS>major.
No. You are wrong. As usual. What a fucking surprise.
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ Jesus was a liberal. Live with it.
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: CHEESE WHIZ
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:28
EID:9afd 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24af
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
JS> KS> JS>Big difference between my tight little anus and a vagina, both
in
JS> KS> design JS>and function.
JS> KS> ACK! Was that *you* in my room in Grand Rapids last month??????????
JS>Why? Did you wake up spiritually enriched, clutching the Gideon's
JS>Bible?
No, I awakened with a sore dick and a tract on the pillow.
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ Appleton's brain: proof that entropy always increases.
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Darryl Gonzalez
|Sub: dumb religious delusi
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:28
EID:6686 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24b0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
DG>MO> RC>> any evidence, any at all, that your god is anything more than
DG>MO> RC>> sheer make believe.
DG>With most of those I've encountered on this echo, it'd be a useless one.
It'
DG>be like handing someone a closed book and saying, "Read this", and they'd
DG>reply, "I can't: it's closed." So then you open it and say, "Read this."
But, your problem is that you produce a book which makes lots of claims
which cannot be verified by any means other than reference to the book
itself. Furthermore, its claims are so outrageous that to believe them
requires a rejection of the very intelligence and logic which the book
claims we have anyway!
DG>Then they reply, "I can't: I can't read." You will make every excuse
you can
Nobody around here ever said such a thing. You are lying.
DG>to not examine any evidence that's put before you. That's why I haven't
DG>bothered to put any of the evidence (except the scientific quotes) that
I hav
DG>on this echo. I don't believe you'll listen to any of it.
You are a real riot.
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ <<< 3 fundies and a moron.
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Jason Sichkaryk
|Sub: god
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:28
EID:92cd 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24b1
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
JS>god sucks
Of course. But who is the suckee?
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ Jesus was a liberal. Live with it.
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: David Rice
|Sub: Evidence Of God, Daily!
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:28
EID:0e71 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24b2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
DR>17 Mar 97 07:46, quoting Kevin Gibson to Shelby Sherman:
DR> KG>> I have produced "evidence of a god" and continue to produce
DR> KG>> evidence of a god almost daily on various echoes throughout
DR> KG>> Fidonet.
DR> SS>> Visit HOLYSMOKE and make this claim.
DR> KG> I have no desire to descend into that pit of vipers, thank you.
DR>Coward.
That silly prick is almost as nuts as Half...er, Prewett...
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ Appleton's brain: proof that entropy always increases.
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: George L. Harper
|Sub: CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:28
EID:6d8a 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24b3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
GLH> Roger, did you ever take a course in geology, at any reputable institutio
GLH>of higher learning ? I presume not, because there IS
geolog
GLH>evidence that supports the world-wide flood. Much of it was unearthed
righ
BULLSHIT, YOU FUCKING LIAR.
GLH>If you DO choose the latter approach - as you well might, untrained
as you
GLH>are - remember to include in your disdain the physical evidence located
on
GLH>top of a mountain called Ararat, located in central Turkey. It is the
GLH>remains..rather well preserved, due to the climate, of a sea-going vessel
GLH>quite astonishingly similar in description to one attributed to Noah's
GLH>Shipyards, and apparently built at about the same time.
MORE LIES. DOES YOUR GOD LIKE YOU DOING THAT?
GLH>How's THAT for scientific (Actually EMPIRIC) evidence? Now, go crawl
GLH>back into your hole, little man, or I'll turn the unicorns loose on
you...
Now, go fuck yourself, little pustule, or I'll turn the Harpies loose
on you.
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ 1 = 2 for large values of one
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: George L. Harper
|Sub: You forgot to answer
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:28
EID:9e9f 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24b4
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
GLH> However you name his alleged belief system, Hitler was a lunatic,
GLH>fanatically revulsed by the semitic blood coursing through his veins
(are
GLH>you excited yet, ALP?). His phobia was so deeply rooted that he went
to
Semitic blood in Hitler? Are you a complete moron, or are some parts
missing?
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ Of all my relations, I like sex the best.
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: George L. Harper
|Sub: Arrogant Apologies
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:28
EID:a484 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24b5
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
GLH> I quoted empiric evidence about the flood to Roger Hunter, a post
or two
GLH>back. Since it's there, go back and read it. Since you agree that
such
No, you didn't since it doesn't exist.
GLH> Additionally, for the interested: Ephemerists working for TRW and
NASA,
GLH>in the early 1970's discovered, and published information about, an
anomaly
GLH>the courses followed by the stars, as they relate to the passage of
time | If God came to earth in human form, and was truly human, then when he
died,
CH>that would've been it. Game over. "If you hadn't nailed 'im to the cross,
CH>'e'd be pushin' up the daisies!" Tell me, can this God of yours in human
CH>form know that he's God? If he did, then he too was omnipotent and knew
he
CH>would come back from the dead, and therefore wouldn't've cared about
his
CH>death; he knew he was immortal. If he didn't, then it can not be said
that
CH>he knew his act was meaningful or symbolic, and therefore is irrelevant.
You do realize, I assume, that this is the kind of thing that makes
fundies spin at 666 rpm...
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ Is it further to Boston, or by bus?
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:29
EID:c506 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24b7
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
JH>On Mar 16 15:59 97, Marilyn Burge of 1:105/302.666 wrote:
JH> MB> Here's a guy with children and grandchildren who doesn't
JH> MB> have a clue what a cervix is.
JH> The fact that the colarbone is also named the cervix doesn't
JH> help things in the slightest...
Um...I believe it's called the clavicle...
JH> ...or is that the clavical? No, that's a chamber music thingie
JH> like a harpsichord.
Argh. I can't remember that one...
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ Tagline affixed in compliance with Stuffed Articles Act.
-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: FREEDOM OF CHOICE
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:29
EID:41eb 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24b8
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
KY> KY> I won't make a judgement on oral sex, as I am not sure. But anal
sex
KY> KY> would be very unnatural, yes.
KY> BB> Why is it unnatural, Ken?
KY>Well, according to those that I know that have tried it, it is quite
painful.
KY>Sex should be of pleasure, not pain.
You are obviously hanging around with people who aren't humans.
KY>Plus, I would think it be more of an awkward way to have sex.
In your case, it would be a lot better than no sex at all...
KY>And come on.. Put that WHERE?!? I don't think so.. :)
You had an unnecessary fourth word in that sentence.
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ I'm just trying out this tagline. It's not registered yet
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Ken Young: Poster child
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:29
EID:5b0e 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24b9
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
KY> SS> O.K., fundie, what if a group of us decided that ritualized cannibalism
KY> SS> by way of eating the body of christ and drinking his blood was a
threat
KY> SS> to decency?
KY>That probably would be, but fortunately I don't know of anyone that does
such
KY>a thing. The flesh and blood of communion, is symbolic.
And therefore meaningless.
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ 2 HOURS to bury a dog?? Well, it wasn't dead
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: KEN YOUNG: POSTER CHI
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:29
EID:9fa4 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24bc
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
KY> RH> More nonsense. Pornography has NEVER been shown to be harmful,
KY> RH> despite the best efforts of several presidents. And homosexuality
KY> RH> is not harmful either.
KY>It has never been shown that everyone that sees porn, will turn into
a violen
KY>rapist or molester or anything. But, there are generally negative effects.
And you know this from personal experience....
KY> RH> You just don't LIKE it and you want to make sure no one ELSE
KY>No, I am against pornography, that does not mean I wish to ban it. I
KY>understand why many do want to ban it, but that wouldn't solve a thing.
So why do you even fucking CARE???
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ Fact: fourteen out of every ten people like chocolate.
-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: George Harper
|Sub: Educational Experienc
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:29
EID:f156 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24be
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
GH> GH> The Flood: Noah took several HUNDRED years building the Ark,
GH> MG> Non biblcial evidence that humans live hundreds of years please.
GH> The remains of the Ark have been found. YOU figure out how long it
took
GH> one man to build it from scratch.
You are a lying, syphilitic afterbirth of a drunken gangfuck.
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ He has a REALLY big head...it's a shame it's empty.
-+- OLMS 2.53 UNREG
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: questions for chosen one
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:29
EID:e049 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24bf
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
RC>Every Wednesday when regular classes are in session, there is a
RC>flea market on the campus of the University of South Florida in
RC>Tampa. Last Wednesday I noticed a man renting space because his
RC>He also gives away free bananas. I didn't ask why.
RC>Please feel free to suggest further lines of inquiry, folks.
Get him to eat a banana. When he does, say, "you're hired".
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ <<< 3 fundies and a moron.
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:30
EID:728f 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24c0
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
JB> JS>Nah. I can spell 'bitch' if I want to.
JB> KS> Or be one.
JB>Looks real cute in a French Maid's outfit, too.
With his little peepee hanging out under the little lace apron.
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ 1 = 2 for large values of one
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: the promise keepers 1/
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:30
EID:a1cc 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24c1
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
JS>JS> KS> Anal Roberts' house--30 rooms, 44,000 square feet. Go down the
stree
JS> KS> They all claim to be christians. I rest my case.
JS>Agreed. But there is no financial connect between the two as he was
JS>trying to establish.
Sue the bastards at Calvin College, Mr. English Major. The word is
'connection'.
JS>... I and my Father are one. - John 10:30
I and my father are two, otherwise I'd be dead.
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ His brain is a 360k floppy in dire need of formatting.
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:30
EID:64a4 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24c2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
JS> KS> JS>Nah. I can spell 'bitch' if I want to.
JS> KS> Or be one.
JS>Bitchum, dude! :)
That would be cute if it came from an eight-year old. From you, it's
just another typical adolescent reversion.
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ Sign on church: "Please check guns and brains at the door
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|From: Karl Schneider
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: You *didn't* answer this
|Date: 22 Mar 97 20:14:30
EID:a8af 2276a1c0
PID: OLMS 2.53 [Evaluation] 338 days
MSGID: 1:170/551.0 162f24c3
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8609
JS> KS> JS>See? It is not that hard, once you have been enlightened by the
JS> KS> Word of JS>God.
JS> KS> If I thought that were about to happen I would put a bullet in my
JS> KS> brain.
JS> Just can't take it, can you...
Yep. No problem.
JS>... He that denieth the faith, and is worse than an infidel. - 1 Tim.
5:8
Your quote machine can't even make a complete sentence.
-!-
þ OLX 2.2 þ I can carry 2 cups of coffee &8 donuts at the nudist camp
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Ken Young: Poster child
|Date: 23 Mar 97 20:50:22
EID:d3af 2277a640
MSGID: 1:124/9005 333597ca
REPLY: 1:123/67.5 33353c80
PID: GED3 3.0.a4 261LM7
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Salue, Dan!
Dies solis March 23 1997, Dixit Dan Ceppa ad Ken Young:
SS>> O.K., fundie, what if a group of us decided that ritualized
SS>> cannibalism by way of eating the body of christ and drinking his blood
SS>> was a threat to decency?
We have a billboard out on I-30 for a local church, depicting some kind
of sicko rubber stamp that says "Paid in Full," and blood drips from the
thing. When someone wants to holler about how offended they are about violence,
I'm bringing this one up.
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha4+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Steve Quarrella
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Bill Gates
|Date: 23 Mar 97 20:53:38
EID:a82f 2277a6a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005 3335986b
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 773f73b4
PID: GED3 3.0.a4 261LM7
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
Veneris dies March 21 1997, Dixit J.J. Hitt ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> W I N D O W S 95
SQ>> 87+73+78+68+79+87+83+57+53+1 = 666
JJH> ^^
JJH> Plus one?
JJH> Where did that come from?
Got me, I only forwarded it. Then again, don't the Fundies always seem
to pull these numbers out of a hat anyways?
--- GoldED 3.00.Alpha4+ - Spank Our Wombats!
* Origin: Valencia: "Smarter than the average bear." (1:124/9005)
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|From: Scott Taylor
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: ...
|Date: 22 Mar 97 15:58:34
EID:d896 22767f40
MSGID: 3:800/432.0 3334803a
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Christopher Hughes <=-
CH> So God the Father and God the Son aren't the same being? Or they are
but
CH> just not the same? Face it Ken. You're not making sense.
KY> The Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, are the same being, though different
^^^^^
Oh, it makes a bit more sense now. The Babble I had as a kiddie said
Holy Goat...Never saw the sense in it....That makes more sense, but
in a lot of ways, even less...I mean, don't ghosts go around
haunting people and trying to get the living to complete the stuff
that the ghost left unfinished in life and the like????
Hey, and your gods only 3 different people...Dagda had 13 different
bodies, so there! Nyer!
Arawn's Blessing to thee, Ken...
And may it come soon.
Later
P.S. Why don't you post under Patois, or whatever the dopey handle
you used was????
... Press any key to continue...no, no, no, NOT THAT ONE!!!!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: < - Adelaide, Australia (08) 8351-7637 (3:800/432)
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|From: Scott Taylor
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Around the World in.. 2/
|Date: 22 Mar 97 16:07:36
EID:8cf1 227680e0
MSGID: 3:800/432.0 33348258
-=> Quoting Karl Schneider to Jim Staal <=-
JS> KS> You are a fucking liar.
JS>What country do you live in? There _are_ laws against discrimination,
JS>you know.
KS> You are a moron.
You have a certain understated gift for stating the obvious....:)
... "Bother," said Pooh, as the LSD made Tigger look like Krishna.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Scott Taylor
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: Re: Arrogance
|Date: 22 Mar 97 16:08:38
EID:6a98 22768100
MSGID: 3:800/432.0 33348296
-=> Quoting Becke Boyer to George Harper <=-
GH> I will sit back and wait, secure in the knowledge that you *WILL*
GH> one day learn the truth, and - unfortunately for you - that you
GH> will live a LOOOOONG time regretting it...an eternity, one might
GH> say...you might want to ask your survivors to pack some asbestos
GH> undies in your coffin... hehehehe
GH> God Bless...and be sure He *IS* watching YOU!
BB> So your God *is* a stalker, eh?
No, he's an Orwellian Overlord that demands unquestioning obediance.
Those that question the proffered truth must be punished. Punished!
There can be no tolerance for dissention, for dissention means that
people are thinking for themselves and free-thought is a danger to
conformity. Conformity is what allows the powers that be to arbitrarily
single out and dispose of those who are not usefull or unwilling to
conform. Those who deny THE TRUTH, must be punished for their
own good and the good of society.....
There, do I sound rabid enough?
Eurgh...I hate putting myself in that mindset...It feels as if my
brain has been touring the local sewer system......
Later
... If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Scott Taylor
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Cracker Barrel Boycot
|Date: 22 Mar 97 16:19:40
EID:5d34 22768260
MSGID: 3:800/432.0 3334852c
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to Ken Young <=-
RH>> The flood of Noah is scientifically impossible, and that's a
RH>> fact.
KY> Please explain further. Why is a world wide flood impossible?
MG> Becasue there is not enough water. For one thing.
You've done it now....Next we'll here from Ken about Miracle Water,
the type that floods the world, kills everything except for a pissy
ark made of wood and its inhabitants, and then buggers off without
leaving any trace of every having been....
I want someone to go up to Everest, and take a core sample from about
100' from the peak...If there's fossilised shell fish less than 2,000,000
years old...I'll eat my fucking Doc Martens - all 4 pair of them.
... "If I could reach you, I would hurt you, Pinky" - The Brain
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Scott Taylor
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: Re: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 22 Mar 97 16:25:42
EID:90ae 22768320
MSGID: 3:800/432.0 33348696
-=> Quoting Becke Boyer to Mary Smith <=-
Wotcha Becke!
BB>> KY> Check out the gay marches or rallies that have been shown on th
BB>> KY> and you will get an idea what I mean. You must admit, some do
BB>> KY> confrontational about it.
MS>
MS> Shouldn't this be in GAYLINK?
BB> Why?
Probably feeling queasy about "filthy homosexuals" not sticking to
their own echos.....
ZONK!
Later
... "I think so, Brain, but burlap chafes me so." - Pinky
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: < - Adelaide, Australia (08) 8351-7637 (3:800/432)
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|From: Scott Taylor
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: Re: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 22 Mar 97 16:26:44
EID:90ae 22768340
MSGID: 3:800/432.0 333486d4
-=> Quoting Becke Boyer to Ken Young <=-
KY> Debunked generally means one has been proven wrong. But I fail to see
KY> yet, any rallies for heterosexual special rights. They were anti-gay,
KY> but not necessarily for special rights for anyone. They simply do not
KY> want gays to have special rights.
BB> You're not getting this through your thick skull, are you, Jelly? Gays
BB> don't want _special_ rights, merely EQUAL rights.
I'm going to try my psychic powers here....
Ken: "What makes gays special enough to be equal?"
or something to that effect...
Later
... When I die I'm going to Heaven because I've already been to Melbourne.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: < - Adelaide, Australia (08) 8351-7637 (3:800/432)
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|From: Scott Taylor
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 22 Mar 97 16:28:46
EID:93d2 22768380
MSGID: 3:800/432.0 3334874e
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to David Rice <=-
Wotcha Mratin!
MG> Er...sodomy is not sex acts between men. It is an
MG> "unnatural act" between any two persons. Some states have
MG> criminal penalties for adult hetero couples who perfrom
MG> oral or anal sex in hotel rooms.
A friend of mine who has a thing for legal trivia pointed out
to me that in Tasmania, while it is illegal to engage in oral
or anal sex, it is perfectly alright to fuck animals, as long
as it isn't oral or anal sex....She even produced copies of
the appropriate Acts as evidence....Weird...
Later
... I've been sane. I am, at present, exploring my other aspects.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Scott Taylor
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 22 Mar 97 16:34:48
EID:ab41 22768440
MSGID: 3:800/432.0 333488b8
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Roger Hunter <=-
RH> It's the difference between a piece of meat that MIGHT someday
RH> become human and someone who already IS human.
KY> But the woman already had a chance at life, so if either is
KY> more important, wouldn't it be the unborn baby, since
KY> he/she didn't even do anything to get in that situation?
Typical. You keep talking as if a foetus was a person. It isn't.
It is just a lump of cellular baggage that is dependant on it's
host body for survival. Foetuses (Foetii?) that are incapable of
supporting their own life (Meaning breathing and circulating blood,
not getting a job, etc.) are not Human, although they may in many
ways vaguely look human.
I thought you xtians believed that unborn kiddies that die are just
put onn hold until they get the chance to be born again...or taken
into the Lords Loving Bosom or what ever...
KY> ANd both are human beings. If it isn't human what is it?
KY> And keep in mind your answer must have a heartbeat.
Only if your posts have brainwave activity.
... SAIORSE. CEART. SIOCHAIN.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Maximus 3.01
* Origin: < - Adelaide, Australia (08) 8351-7637 (3:800/432)
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|From: Scott Taylor
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Re: Focus on the Family
|Date: 22 Mar 97 16:43:50
EID:a2b3 22768560
MSGID: 3:800/432.0 33348ad6
rs>> If an atheist shot up an abortion clinic, I'd be the first
rs>> one to call for them to fry on the electric chair.
> I can't think of any ideological reason for an atheist to shoot-up
an
> abortion clinic. The mentally insane might simply to "copycat" a
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
You mean you can be insane other than mentally?
That's it! I'm not going to be psychotic anymore....
I'm going to be physically insane!
:)
Later
... "Bother," said Pooh, as he caught his gonads on barbed wire.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Scott Taylor
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Fudgefest
|Date: 22 Mar 97 16:46:52
EID:5c85 227685c0
MSGID: 3:800/432.0 33348b8c
-=> Quoting Ken Young to Martin Goldberg <=-
KY> WIll there come a time when "my work will be done," here?
KY> Perhaps, but that will only occur when this echo has
KY> completely changed.
KY> No, I like listening to your irrational rantings. But you
KY> are right on one thing, there will be plenty of others.
KY> Just wait. In a year, you will likely be the one running
KY> out of here.
Why have you come to our planet, Ken? You've lowered the global
IQ by 17 pts.
... Now, crawl back into the palcenta 'n grow some brains...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Scott Taylor
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: He Does It Again!
|Date: 22 Mar 97 16:50:54
EID:9656 22768640
MSGID: 3:800/432.0 33348c7e
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to Ken Young <=-
KY> Nope. I am saying that she got pregnant without having any
KY> sexual relations.
MG> C'mon, Jelly. Your Book of Lies says that Jesus was the
MG> "son of god". That means your god was his father. How did
MG> Mary get preggers?
Yeah. At least the Old Gods didn't piss fart around pretending to
be all enigmatic and righteous. They just went out and fucked away!
Odin was an example of this, according to Norse Myth...He was all
for "a bit of the old in-out in-out"...
A lot of the Old Gods used to be quite handy with the old Flesh Tool,
and one of the Aussie Aboriginal quasi-deities is painted as having
enormous bollocks, because he supposedly fathered the entire world....
Hehehehehe...Certainly more entertaining than some old prick in the
sky who uses Mircale Cum , and mircales it into some poor
bitches womb without so much as a nibbled ear....!
Xtian mythology is sooooooooo drab....
... Attention! Martin Goldberg shall now be know as Lavacious Doorknob.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Scott Taylor
|To: All
|Sub: Bible fun
|Date: 22 Mar 97 16:55:56
EID:29cf 227686e0
MSGID: 3:800/432.0 33348dac
Now, as most of you know, the Bible is a pretty drab book. So dull,
in fact, that they decided to base a religion around it.
Well, that's to the tireless work of The Cult of The Rubber Chicken,
all that has been solved...
So what is The Cult of The Rubber Chicken? Its an absurdist cult
based on the belief that there is a God, maybe not the God all
of xtianity wants, but he/she is there....and they have a low
and base sense of humour - the lowest form of which is represented
on Earth by the humble Rubber Chicken...
So here are some tips for reading to bible to make it more
fun to read....
True Meanings of Biblical Words
Begat - To pull someones loin cloth up from behind them so it wedges in
their butt crack. A Begat is a Proto-Wedgie.
Smite - To hit someone with a non-Kosher Custard Pie.
Ascend - Went out for a pint or seven.
Divine - Funny, humourous.
This is only the start, but we promise to get funnier as we
develope....(and can steal a bible to read again)
This message has been brought to you by The Cult of The Rubber Chicken,
an unprofitable religious organisation funded by Austudy.
... Apathy....Ah, sod it.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Maximus 3.01
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|From: Ed Mills
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: clones
|Date: 22 Mar 97 21:54:12
EID:0c78 2276aec0
MSGID: 1:105/24.12 3d1c353b
REPLY: 1:170/551.0 162d8fe0
while (insert vocational humor here), Karl Schneider said to Ed Mills:
EM> EM> We now return to our regularly scheduled autoeroticism.
EM> MO> Yes please. (Now if I only knew what it meant).
KS> EM>Cuffing the carrot.
KS> EM>Mounting a coach and five.
KS> EM>Playing tug-of-war with Cyclops.
KS> EM>Polishing the helmet.
KS> Strangling the one-eyed worm with a turtleneck sweater.
Unsnipt, are ye?
I used to feel sorry for us circumcized types, but now I feel
sorry for all those people who think calamari is squid.
edweird
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Hunting churches
|Date: 23 Mar 97 07:54:43
EID:c62e 22773ec0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 b0adc04d
REPLY: 1:218/890@FidoNet 220a369b
On (09 Mar 97) Fredric Rice babbled to Dan Ceppa...
FR> Ken Young Jelly> And no, currently I am church hunting..
FR> Just imagine the lucky church he finds.
What I want to know is how many points you get for bagging a church.
... "Never test the depth of a river with both feet." -Old Polish proverb
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: ROBERT CURRY
|Sub: Old Fart Reminiscences
|Date: 23 Mar 97 11:26:31
EID:0d58 22775b40
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 dd954eba
REPLY: 1:3603/210 495ab79b
On (15 Mar 97) ROBERT CURRY babbled to DON MARTIN...
DG> OK. Time for a little teaching here:
DM> Does this remind anyone else of Mortimer Snerd
DM> lecturing Edgar Bergen? Or aren't you old farts enough?
RC> I get the feeling that this is a reference my parents wouldn't
RC> even recognize. Do you think I should run it by my grandparents?
RC> Or would my *great* grandparents be more familiar with it, in
RC> your estimation?
Do you know who Candice Bergen is? Well, Edgar was her father,
and Charlie McCarthy and Mortimer Snerd were his two dummies (he
was a ventroliquist who moved his lips a lot, but it didn't matter
in the days of radio). Mortimer wasn't too bright, but Charlie
was more what we would call a "geek" today.
... Anyone can hate. It costs to love.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Rod Swift
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 23 Mar 97 12:05:28
EID:9ea0 227760a0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 e5f16693
REPLY: 3:690/660.0 33281c68
On (13 Mar 97) Rod Swift babbled to Ken Young...
KY> And homosexuality is obviously a part of you, right? It is
KY> part of who you are and what makes you, you. Well then,
KY> just as through other experiences and choices, you decided
KY> what your personality would eventually grow into, you also
KY> decided to be gay, the same way.
RS> Evidence that this model of sexual orientation development is
RS> proven? Citations? References? Any evidence whatsoever?
He wouldn't even be right if he said "high-strung" instead of
homosexual. The latest findings suggest that our basic
personality/temperment is hard-wired in our genetic code, with
only slight modification possible after birth.
... That statement is true -> <- That statement is false
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: You Forgot To Answer
|Date: 23 Mar 97 16:50:54
EID:256c 22778640
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 3c8fff46
REPLY: 1:103/550.0 332a95d0
On (15 Mar 97) Ken Wiens babbled to Fredric Rice...
KW> "Evidence that what they believe in exists" is precisely
KW> what this Professor of Biochemistry thinks he is
KW> presenting. What I am looking for is detailed interaction
KW> with the content of his book from a non-believer perspective.
KW> It is easy to constantly request evidence one is certain
KW> does not exist to begin with. It is quite another to
KW> honestly interact with the detailed evidence one believes
KW> they are presenting. If what he presents is not evidence
KW> what part of it is not evidence and why? In detail please.
KW> If you don't want to at least provide some sort of
KW> bibliography of peer review Journal articles that did
KW> deal with his material.
That book was so thoroughly debunked in here recently, that the
fellow who was defending it left when he admitted he'd become an
"open-minded agnostic."
... Hit him over the head with a clue x 4.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 23 Mar 97 16:58:09
EID:aa42 22778740
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 6042b1c7
On (17 Mar 97) Christopher Hughes babbled to Marilyn Burge...
CH> KY>> Well, drugs might be a lot safer if they were legal but
CH> regulated, KY>> would you be for that, as well?
CH> KD>> You do realize that among this crowd [who tend to lean
CH> Libertarian] KD>> you'll get the answer YES? Without hesitation?
CH> > I'm not sure the majority of the Libertarians would want them
CH> > regulated; legal, sure; regulated, probably not.
CH> Actually, I'd not mind regulating them, in that I'd want someone
CH> making sure the stuff being sold was high-grade crap that wasn't going
CH> to kill the people smoking/shooting/snorting it because it was cut
CH> with baking
CH> powder or rat poison or what-have-you. Also, I'd want to tax the ever-
CH> living poop out of the stuff. Slap a 500% luxury tax on it (and
CH> tobacco and alcohol while I'm at it) and dedicate 75% of the funds to
CH> detox and education.
that sounds more socialistic than libertarian. Libertarians
don't think we should be taxed at all.
... Why can't lifes's big problems come when we are twenty and know everything
?
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Marilyn Burge
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: bible translations
|Date: 23 Mar 97 17:31:49
EID:a7b2 22778be0
MSGID: 1:105/302.666 1d7ce63c
On (16 Mar 97) Dan Ceppa babbled to Ken Wiens...
KW> the notion that Josephus called Jesus Messiah. It is
DC> He didn't call him the Easter Bunny, either.
KW> the phrase where Josephus calls Jesus Messiah that is
KW> the later xian forgery, not the fact that he did mention
DC> So, is Jesus the Easter Bunny or not?
KW> Jesus. He also mentions Jesus brother James, as well as
KW> John the Baptist. No serious xian scholars questions
KW> the mention of these New Testament characters in
KW> Josephus either.
Joseph appears not to know anything else about Jesus outside
of this tiny paragraph and a reference to James, the "brother
of Jesus." He is silent about the miracles of Jesus, although
he reports the antics of other prophets in great detail. He
adds nothing to the Gospel narratives, and says nothing that
would not have been knownw by christians already, whether
in the first or foureth century. In all of Josephus's
volumninous works, there is not a single reference to
Christianity anywhere outside of this tiny paragraph.
He relates much more about John the Baptist than about Jesus.
He lists the activities of many other self-proclaimed
Messiahs, including Judas of Galilee, Theudas the
magician, and the Egyptian jew Jessiah, but is mute about
the life of one whom he claims is hte answer to his messianic
hopes.
....
Christians should be careful when they refer to Josephus as
historical confirmation for Jesus. it turns around and bites
them. If we remove the forged paragraph, the works of Josephus
become evidence AGAINST historicity. If the life of jesus was
historical, why did Josephus know nothing of it?
Losing Faith in Faith, by Dan Barker, p. 363
... HolySmoke: A head-on collision on the Information Superhighway.
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Irc Log Fun!
|Date: 17 Mar 97 15:25:00
EID:449d 22717b20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332cf1cc
* On 13-03-97 at 10:53, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Irc Log Fun!" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> Except, of course, when you want to claim that I'm the most
JS> RS> hateful person on the echo, of course... :) :)
JS> JS> ... Teach them to observe ALL my commandments - Matthew 28:20
JS> RS> Why do you not observe Leviticus 20:13, and the stoning that you
JS> RS> must carry out on gays?
JS> Where did Christ command it?
Christ commanded the retention of Leviticus 20 (a Mosaic law) in
Matthew 5:17-18.
JS> RS> Then again, why haven't you sacrificed your first born male child
JS> RS> to God?
JS> Where did Christ (or any OT command) command it?
Exodus 13, Luke 2, Numbers 3.
Rod "...thank you Jimson. Read your bible.
* OLX 2.1 TD * Satanic: Anything a fundie Christian doesn't like
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Lon Mabon
|Date: 17 Mar 97 15:26:02
EID:46b4 22717b40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332cf20a
* On 13-03-97 at 11:02, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Lon Mabon" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> FR> Why do you use Lon S. Mabon's name? Could it be because you're
in
JS> JS> FR> agreement with his traditional Christianity as outlined above,
pig?
JS> JS> The correct question was 'why _did_ I use the name Lon S. Mabon.
(there
JS> JS> is no such person).
JS> RS> There is such a person as Lon Mabon. Don't you read your
JS> RS> Oregonian political news?
JS> There is no such person as Lon S. Mabon. maybe there is a 'lon mabon'
JS> but there is no Lon S. Mabon.
Then what is the middle name of Lon Mabon, of the Oregon Citizen Alliance?
Is it not Samuel?
Rod "...thank you Jimson" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Know God, know problems. No God, no problems!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Baby in Critical Conditi
|Date: 17 Mar 97 15:27:04
EID:6469 22717b60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332cf248
* On 13-03-97 at 11:03, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Baby in Critical Conditi" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> (Prov 31:27 NIV) She watches over the affairs of her household
and does
JS> JS> not eat the bread of idleness.
JS> RS> Too bad she allows you to be so slothful that you are unemployed.
JS> RS> Too bad that you don't stop eating from the bread of idleness
JS> RS> Jim, and that you have weak arms.
JS> Being self-employed is not being unemployed.
I'm sorry. I meant *unemployable*. My mistake :) :)
Rod "...ho ho ho!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Know God, know problems. No God, no problems!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Joe Shedlock
|Sub: Test your knowledge
|Date: 17 Mar 97 15:30:06
EID:9140 22717bc0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332cf2fe
* On 12-03-97 at 12:14, JOE SHEDLOCK wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Test your knowledge" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> As I promised. The US Federal Bureau of Prisons sent me data on
JS> RS> religious affiliation at time of prison entry for all prisoners
in
JS> RS> Federal prisons.
JS> RS> You have 96,968 prisoners total to divide among the following groups:
JS> RS> Moorish
JS> Huh? I didn't know that "Moorish" was a religion. I thought it reflected
JS> more on national origin.
I don't define 'em. I gather they are referring to North
African Muslims. There are probably enough difference in the
faiths to claim a new religion (like Christians could be
Catholic, Protestant, Pentacostal, Evangelical, etc, etc).
JS> RS> Nation (?)
JS> I assume this is short for "Nation of Islam," which I assume means
"Black
JS> Muslim," or Farrakhan's (sp?) group.
I would gather, but I'm not sure.
JS> RS> Post your guesses here. I'll post the actual figures on 21 March.
JS> RS> You will be surprised by the results.
JS> I would really feel stupid trying to guess. I prefer just to look
at
JS> the facts.
Oh, you will enjoy them :)
JS> I wonder whether you could contact the Australian Bureau of Prisons,
or
JS> whatever the nearest counterpart is there, and give the Australian
JS> figures for comparison purposes.
We do not survey religious orientation of prisoners in Australia.
Unlike the USA, we don't have massive desires to classify people
at every turn :) :)
Rod "... and we don't have federal prisons" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: Irc Log Fun!
|Date: 17 Mar 97 15:35:08
EID:8be9 22717c60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332cf42c
* On 13-03-97 at 11:42, KEN WIENS wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Irc Log Fun!" in echo Holysmoke:
KW> RS>Except, of course, when you want to claim that I'm the most
KW> RS>hateful person on the echo, of course... :) :)
KW> JS> ... Teach them to observe ALL my commandments - Matthew 28:20
KW> RS>Why do you not observe Leviticus 20:13, and the stoning that you
KW> RS>must carry out on gays?
KW> The answer is right under your nose, Rod. Notice "my commandments"
KW> are to be observed, not the Levitical Laws of the OT, which were
KW> directed very specifically to Israel to begin with. You ought to
KW> take an elementary course in Bible history and theology sometime.
You ought to read your bible. Jesus clearly commanded the
continuation of OT and Levitical laws.
Jesus *COMMANDED* (hence you must observe, as per Matt 28:20) --
MATT 5:17 -- "Do NOT think that I have come to DO AWAY
with the LAW OF MOSES or the PROPHETS. I
have NOT come to DO AWAY with them but to
MAKE THEIR TEACHINGS COME TRUE."
MATT 5:18 -- "Remember that as LONG AS HEAVEN AND EARTH
LAST, not the LEAST POINT nor the SMALLEST
DETAIL of the LAW will be DONE AWAY WITH
-- NOT UNTIL THE END OF ALL THINGS."
Clearly, this commandment from the lips of your alleged saviour
clearly state that the biblical laws as commanded to Moses, and
as given to the other prophets, in the OT, are still in effect
until the END OF ALL THINGS.
So, I ask again, why do you not carry out Leviticus 20?
KW> A course in hermeneutics wouldn't hurt either.
You need a cause in basic English language comprehension, Ken.
Rod "...isn't it a shame that I know more about your bible than
you do. How I laugh in your pitiful face!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Atheist: a person with no invisible means of support
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 17 Mar 97 15:38:10
EID:7dc7 22717cc0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332cf4e2
* On 13-03-97 at 11:44, KEN WIENS wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:
KW> JS>KKK is no Christian organization.
KW> RS>So they *aren't* the "CHRISTIAN Knights of the Ku Klux Klan?"
KW> JS>Do not confuse False Christian Scum [tm] with Christianity.
KW> RS>How do you know you're not the false Christian scum, and they're
KW> RS>the true Christian scum?
KW> It is really quite simple. Jesus said those who were his true
KW> followers would be known by the good 'fruits' they evidenced
KW> in their lives...
How do you not know that God's spirit was in them, and driving
them in their acts? How do you know it was a good or bad fruit?
How do you claim to judge right from wrong in a godly sense, mere
mortal?
KW> i.e., the sacrificial love of God being expressed
KW> in the way they treat others, basically.
God clearly demands death penalties, wars, murders of whole
races, in your book of death called the Bible. There's murder at
every turn.
KW> You ought to read the Book yourself sometime.
Why do you shave, Ken? Why do you eat shellfish? Do
grasshoppers have six legs, or four?
KW> You might not have to ask so many elementary questions about it then.
Why are you not practicing any of the community standards as
required of you in Leviticus 20?
Rod "...please answer the question honestly!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Gun Control: The ability to drop a fundie at 500 yards
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: Book Theft
|Date: 17 Mar 97 18:42:12
EID:47af 22719540
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d2004
* On 13-03-97 at 11:50, KEN WIENS wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Book Theft" in echo Holysmoke:
KW> JS>No, Paul, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit showed us jhow to
p
KW> JS>"love thy neighbor as thyself; and love god what all your heart,
so
KW> JS>and mind." into practiacl application for today. Loving God includ
KW> JS>the keeping of His commands. (John 14:15 NIV) "If you love me, yo
KW> JS>will obey what I command.
KW> RS>Why don't you obey Leviticus 20, and start enacting the community
KW> RS>punishments on sinners?
KW> Because he is obeying what "I command" as detailed in John 14:15,
KW> cited above.
Jesus commanded that the OT laws were not revoked. Matt 5:17-18.
Jim is NOT obeying Jesus's commandment to keep and obey the Laws
of Moses and the prophets.
KW> Rod, you really need to take some basic elementary Bible
KW> courses some time.
Your opinion isn't even bore out by the evidence. My proof that
you and Jimson aren't even bothering to follow the Mosaic Laws
as REQUIRED of you by Jesus' commandments in Matt 5:17-18 until
the END of it ALL is required of you.
You not only need an elementary Bible course, you need to start
reading your bible.
Rod "...we love you, and want you to start killing your enemies
as Jesus commanded when he told you to keep the old laws!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Bugger me with a fish fork!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ronald Vass
|Sub: Re: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 17 Mar 97 18:49:14
EID:f456 22719620
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d21aa
* On 12-03-97 at 22:22, RONALD VASS wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Re: Driving Mr. Daisy" in echo Holysmoke:
RV> >> KY> Affection I can see, but it is another thing entirely, going
RV> >> KY> around promoting your lifestyle.
RV> >MG> Are you truly stupid enough to believe that gay marches
RV> >MG> promote "gay lifestyle"?
RV> RS>Gay lifestyle -- get up, eat breakfast, shower, go to work, earn
RV> RS>money, pay taxes, come home, exercise, watch Babylon 5.
RV> RS>Lather, rinse, repeat.
RV> I see now, it's perverted to watch Babylon 5. Then too, i do agree
RV> with that. It should be play with computers & sofeware or read books
RV> and/or HolySmoke. Anything else is a perversion. -{D&R}
Hehehehehe. :)
RV> RS>I note the straight lifestyle is not much different. You can
RV> RS>exchange "Babylon 5" with "Star Trek" if you ABSOLUTELY must, but
RV> If i must watch TV, then the nature channel or A&E. Thanks.
You just watch them for the nature and enviro-porn -- like
turtles going for it.
RV> RS>we will declare you perverted HETEROFILTH for your filthy
RV> RS>dabbling in the filthy heterosexual Star Trek lifestyle. :) :) :)
RV> As long as it makes you feel good.
:) :) I'm sure it makes Ken feel good! :)
RV> RS>Of course, Ken is an ignorant fool. I expect him to not be able
to
RV> RS>yet provide answers to the questions about what a "gay" lifestyle
RV> RS>is (because it's identical except for the sexual acts, and then
RV> RS>again, everything a gay couple can do, a straight couple can)...
RV> And you forgot to add. . . and do.
But I was hoping he'd deny heterosexual people practice the same
sex acts :) :)...
RV> * SLMR 2.1a * "Psalsm 137:9 - Fun For The Whole Family"
Oh, no. My favourite is that the Republicans are in power, the
crime rate is rising, immorality rises, the Christians control
congressional votes in many cases...
Secularists are the righteous.
Proverbs 29:16 :)
Rod "...bye bye, Christian tyrants" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Diplomacy: Saying "nice doggy" until you can find a rock
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Test your knowledge
|Date: 17 Mar 97 18:50:16
EID:3f8f 22719640
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d21e8
* On 13-03-97 at 22:58, ED MILLS wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Test your knowledge" in echo Holysmoke:
EM> RS> Now, I'm going to run a little quiz, if anyone would like to play.
EM> RS> You have 96,968 prisoners total to divide among the following groups:
EM> RS> Adventists
...to...
EM> RS> Sikh
EM> I couldn't even begin to guess at most of those, but my prejudices
EM> would lead me to think that, in general, there'd be a lot of
EM> ordinary Protestants, maybe some Church of Christ holyroller types,
EM> and a lot of Muslims, some Rastas...
Go on, Edweird, have some fun! :) :)
I note the Christians in the echo have not responded with their
guesses. Are they afraid to have a guess?
Rod "...Kens? Jimson? Aren't you going to have a guess?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Person+delusion=psychosis. People+delusion=religion.
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Randroids
|Date: 17 Mar 97 18:52:18
EID:be13 22719680
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d2262
* On 09-03-97 at 13:50, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Randroids" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> FR> Rand created quite a cult which continues today -- and it's
FR> FR> utter lunacy. Humans simply aren't a reasonable species so
FR> FR> appeals to reason are ultimately destined to fail. Only as
FR> FR> humanity evolves will Objectivism have a chance.
FR> rs> Now you know why I call them Randroids. The worst thing about
FR> rs> the Rand culties is that their philosophy ends in
FR> rs> holier-than-thou claims of "we're perfect" because they're
FR> rs> rational.
FR> I haven't seen it... but then I've known very few Randroids.
Ah, well, I've ran into a few. They're pretty insane people in
thinking that everyone will act rationally.
Christians are their first downfall. Christians are hardly ever
rational in their actions. Look at all those Christian domestic
militant terrorists for example! :) :)
How can one expect someone practicing the sick, depraved,
degenerate and *chosen* Christian life, err... deathstyle to be
anything but irrational?
Look at Jim. Look at the Kens... Look at all the fundiedroids
that pass through the echo... :) :)
All of them practicing their sick lifestyle, wanting to recruit
our children to their depravity. It's *ICKY!* :) :)
Rod "...and completely befuddling to Randroids" Swift :) :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The Christian Right is neither
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Commercials
|Date: 17 Mar 97 18:55:20
EID:ca42 227196e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d2318
* On 09-03-97 at 13:53, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Commercials" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> FR> Then is closes with, "You'd think that after all these
FR> FR> years we'd catch something." "Like what?"
FR> rs> "Mummy, why do I have herpes and gonorrhoea like you and dad?"
FR> Exactly!
Isn't it ironic. You're the one with the Swaggart bastard
proclaiming his desires for a female child, no?
Here's something to perk your interest -- Swaggart likes to talk
outside both sides of the mouth, apparently :)
___--------------------------------------------------------------
Sex education classes in our public schools are promoting incest.
-- Rev. Jimmy Swaggart, "Jimmy Swaggart Hour"
August 19, 1984
___--------------------------------------------------------------
So Jimmy was having remedial education at night school, which is
where he picked up that filthy incestual desires, eh? :) :)
Rod "...ho ho ho!" Swift
* OLX 2.1 TD * Never attribute to malice that which stupidity explains
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: God Scruffy
|Date: 17 Mar 97 18:57:22
EID:6e42 22719720
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d2392
* On 09-03-97 at 13:55, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "God Scruffy" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> FR> To all you Christians: Why aren't you worshiping this god
FR> FR> as well? It died for your "sins" and came back from the
FR> FR> dead just like your "Jesus" god did. Why aren't you
FR> FR> worshiping it as well? At least this one has evidence that
FR> fR> god Scruffy exists.
FR> FR> Well?
FR> Strange. I didn't get an answer from any believer. I wonder why.
FR> rs> Smell the third tree outside for the *piss marker* of the Looord!
FR> rs> :) Can you imagine it? Baptism in dog piss. Eating doggy doo
FR> rs> doo for their new Looooord! :)
FR> But my tirade was _serious_!
So was mine :) :) Hair of the dog, Brother Fredric? :) :)
FR> Here is a god that returned
FR> from the dead and there's actual video footage to prove it.
Praise Scruffy! :) Will his devotees douse their children in
petrol and "baptise" them in flames, as their lord and devoted
leader Scruffy did?
FR> Why aren't all these Christanic death cultists abandoning
FR> their now-proven lies and lining-up behind this obviously
FR> proven one?
Because Christians are too busy shooting up or bombing abortion
clinics, gay night clubs, banks, and federal buildings.
Rod "...besides, Lord Scruffy has outlawed these things in his
devoted followers, and hence Christians don't want to convert as
they can't condemn and *kill* the enemy" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * I ain't broke, but I'm badly bent
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Ritual Christian canniba
|Date: 17 Mar 97 19:02:24
EID:e35e 22719840
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d24c0
* On 09-03-97 at 13:59, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ritual Christian cannibal" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> kw> Is that why the Cult of
FR> kw> Wild Berry Pop-Tarts is taking over IRC #holysmoke????
FR> FR> Yeah? I gotta join that one!
FR> rs> You should try and get onto IRC more often.
FR> rs> We'd love your company, Brother Fredric.
FR> Man, I just don't have the time.
I do hope you have the time to meet me in Los Angeles when me and
Bear arrive :) :). I'll be jetting in on MH90/MH92/MH94 sometime
between now and December :) :)
When I have full details, we'll tell you when we're going to be
in town. It looks like it'll be flying into LAX, on to HNL, then
back to SFO, before IAH and then AUS. :) :)
FR> The mail piles up here in HolySmoke and the
FR> email piles up for Skeptic Tank stuff.
I've had no anti-gay postings as a Skeptic Tanker. I'm really
starting to think this is a conspiracy to deprive me of the
ability to rip the last remaining trace of Jesus from the
synapses of the Christers. :(
FR> Then the HTML pages needs to be updated...
Well, why didn't you say so??? :) :) I'll see what I can design,
and put a dummy up on the web for you to look at! :) :)
FR> By the time I get time to join IRC, it's time to go to work! }:-}
FR> ~*~ You're debunked. Just stand there and bleed a little. - David Rice
It seems that the fundroids at the moment in this echo would
rather dance around a bit, get debunked more, and in the process,
the little bleeding becomes spurting gashes of terrific blood :)
Rod "...bathed in the blood of Jeeezoids! Wahoo! Get the
chalice, the goats horns, and the black robes!!! :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves, passes to Moses. He shoots. He scores!!!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: How DARE you! SLAP!
|Date: 17 Mar 97 19:05:26
EID:81cf 227198a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d2576
* On 09-03-97 at 14:00, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "How DARE you! SLAP!" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> jdb> *Mt. St. Helens Presidential Tours - contact Laurie Appleton.
FR> FR> Man, let's not let the fool forget, okay?
FR> rs> But does ANYONE have the original for a permanent place in the
FR> rs> FAQ, and wider redistribution into the other echoes he pollutes?
FR> Like every message since the beginning of this year I've
FR> got everything archived away on floppy. _FINDING_ the
FR> thing is too much effort right now since I have no software
FR> working to extract it.
He's now claiming it never happened, so finding it would be a
very good thing. Laurie would like to eat humble pie -- although
it's not a harpy pie -- a hellion pie would do! :)
FR> That'll change, however, when I can put the archives on
FR> disk for search. I will provide an on-line search, in
FR> fact, for the HolySmoke archives.
Sounds faaaabulous! :)
FR> ~*~ Christians steal and then kill Jewish infants, cut open
FR> their bowels, and read the future in the entrails. - David Rice
Ahhh. There was an X-Files episode about the method of reading
the future from the innards of another :) :) Fascinating. Maybe
this is what the Christians are doing in all that domestic
Christian Terrorism (tm) that they are performing.
And before you say anything...
Rod "...hmmmm. I watch the X-Files for *entertainment*" :) Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Atheist: a person with no invisible means of support
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Homophobic Christanic de
|Date: 17 Mar 97 19:06:28
EID:e457 227198c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d25b4
* On 09-03-97 at 17:54, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Homophobic Christanic dea" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> FR> Yes, I've read quite a bit about that hate piece. Just
FR> FR> like the Equal Rights Amendment being shot down by fundies,
FR> FR> they employed the same rhetoric.
FR> rs> Yes. The saddest thing is that the makers of "Gay Rights,
FR> rs> Special Rights" also made a movie about Mormons called "The God
FR> rs> Makers" or something silly. Well, surprise surprise, when the
FR> rs> Mormons and the other religious fundies surfaced in Hawaii to try
FR> rs> and stop same-sex marriage, they started playing "Gay Rights,
FR> rs> Special Rights".
FR> They never see it coming, do they.
It's strange. They only really notice it when they're bent over,
and the exocet is locked on target :) :)
FR> rs> ... the gay people politely pointed out to the Mormons that after
FR> rs> their allies had succeeded in getting rid of "us" it'd be "them".
FR> That's too bad that the truth about the various hate
FR> fractions isn't underscored more.
The mormons have now admitted a full-on political campaign
against same-sex marriage. So if you want to dump them into IRS
shit, please drop me an email :) :)
They deserve to lose tax-free status. The Catholics in Hawaii
are going the same way :) :)
FR> rs> Sent them complimentary copies of "The God
FR> rs> Makers". :) Boy, didn't that cause discord... :)
FR> A wonderful idea! I can get pampletts from CODESH for 12
FR> cents each... I think I'll drop them a note and see if
FR> they would be interested in publishing facts about the
FR> fractions' hatred of each other and see if we want work
FR> dissention.
Sounds fun :) :)
Rod "...indeedy!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Fundamentalist: (n) Ape-like creature with a Bible
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Bathroom Staal's hate
|Date: 17 Mar 97 19:08:30
EID:02c5 22719900
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d262e
* On 09-03-97 at 17:56, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Bathroom Staal's hate" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> FR> ~*~ Is it true that 25% of your gender is gay? - George Boyles
FR> rs> Oh boy. I wish I was here for that gem of a line, Fredric?
FR> FR> Another homophobic bigot will open his mouth for you. Er,
FR> FR> well, you know what I mean. I'm sure that if you prod
FR> FR> Bathroom Staal enough you can get him to express his true
FR> FR> bigotry and hatred.
FR> rs> But you already have him quoted :) :) I've been doing
FR> rs> a good job getting Ken to go around the twist :) :)
FR> Yeah. And Bathroom Staal just added another hate-filled
FR> quote to my growing quotes file.
They're now providing 2-3 each per day! :) :) Fun, is it not?
And the thing is, as we all know, Christians can never back-track
and apologise for the rhetoric they spread.
So they keep pulling the noose around their own necks tighter and
tighter, with the right questioning.
Rod "...then they take a powder, and we laugh!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves! Krishna invests! Cthulhu forcloses!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Public Schools
|Date: 17 Mar 97 19:14:32
EID:1e9d 227199c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d2798
* On 09-03-97 at 18:07, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Public Schools" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> FR> Teach people the history of the Christanic death cult and
FR> FR> we stop Christianity.
FR> rs> Christianity is a social disease spread by human contact. It's
FR> rs> able to be cured by spreading its cure in the same way --
FR> rs> education about the abuse of Christ-i(ns)a(n)ity.
FR> I like to focus on the history of the cult and also point
FR> out that it's gives the highest body count, followed only
FR> by Islam.
Did you see the Afghani Taleban cult wants to now make men
wear beards, or suffer Shariah law judgements on them.
FR> Forcing them to have to lie to _themselves_ to
FR> avoid that truth does a great deal to make them think.
I love the way Jimson is constantly flip-flopping over who is a
Christian. There's one post of his in which the slippery slope
starts, and he's started to invalidate whole slabs of the US
Christian community as "false Christian Scum"(tm).
Now, who died and made him God? :)
Of course, this is to save the sanctity of his idea that real
Christians don't massacre people in banks in Detroit, or bomb
abortion clinics, or bomb gay bars, or set bombs to get the
faithful emergency service workers, or set clinics alight in
arson attacks, or shoot up "Camp Sister Sprit" in Ovett,
Mississippi, or shoot up abortion clinics, or abortion clinic
workers, or Federal buildings, or threaten court houses...
No. They're *just* *not* *Christians*, Fred. And Jim says so.
And we just simply *have* to believe him, because, well, he says
so! :)
FR> I never went to a history class that covered the Christian
FR> atrocities except in very vague, unspecific ways.
Someone should start teaching modern US history (20th Century)
and the Christian atrocities performed in the name of Jesus by
fundamentalist morons who kill innocent people living their lives
in the secular United States of America.
Include the crimes against humanity of enforced religious
indoctrunation in schools, or public places, or judicial
courtrooms (Etowah County, Alabama, anyone?)...
FR> The motivations behind the slaughters and the religious reasons
FR> were rarely expressed.
Truth in History. That's what we want! The good thing is that
coverage of reality is going on. Just look at Frontline (PBS)
and their excellent coverage of Brookline, and Salvi -- the man
behind the murder.
Rod "...Maybe someone should do a documentary. Anyone want to
ring A&E or the History Channel?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Rap is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Staal's right, dear.
|Date: 17 Mar 97 19:19:34
EID:13d8 22719a60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d28c6
* On 09-03-97 at 18:20, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Staal's right, dear." in echo Holysmoke:
FR> iJS> Hi, Fred. How's it going? A bit insecure? You have to bash a poor
FR> iJS> Christian to get your day going? Let me tell you this: After a
hard
FR> ijs> week of deadlines and working 4 jobs, PRAISE GOD! HE IS GOOD!
Life
FR> ijs> is good. Have a good week.
FR> FR> I don't recall reading this pool of resentment.
FR> rs> Oh, really? Sounds like you're having connectivity problems.
FR> rs> Ask Jimbozo if he actually said it. He'll deny, of course :)
FR> No, I just don't read 90% of the lunatic's resentment and
FR> hate-filled spews.
I read each and every one of them. It makes my day that he
thinks all my jovial posts are actually filled with seething hate
:) :). Makes me laugh.
FR> After about the first month everyone already read everything his
FR> masters have to say about everything.
But sometimes, just sometimes, when they actually fire their
neuron, and they give their own spin on their
spoonfed-by-their-masters hatred, it gives us a laugh! :)
FR> Like Mooth and Appletoon, everything unique
FR> ran out of his shit pipe years ago.
Ahhh. Jimson "Busted Shitpipe" Bathroom Staal. Sorta has a
wonderfully quaint *ring* to it, does it not?
FR> FR> Pagan women _deserve_ to be beaten to
FR> fr> a bloody pulp, you know. Too mouthy.
FR> rs> Yes, and remember to "die furd", because you exposed his homo-hatred.
:)
FR> Man, the clown exposes his homo-hatred daily.
There are about 4 good messages per day, on average. Three from
Young, one from Staal. Even Wiener-boy is easily falling for my
baiting :)
And none of the three have provided *any* evidence for *anything*
they've ever proposed as a theory.
I've provided many citations and articles on Christian Terrorism,
anti-gay rhetoric, the failure of gay-curing-ministries, etc, etc.
FR> rs> Did you have Christian guiding in the
FR> rs> posting of this attack on Fredric? Hmmm?
FR> FR> Sure looks like it to me.
FR> rs> Praise Jesus, and pass the flamethrower... My oh my! Jim has a
TANK!
FR> Alert Janet Reno!
Alert the Care Bears! :) :)
Rod "...because Jimson doesn't do cute!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * If Jesus is Jewish, why does he have a Spanish name?
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Archive Staal's lunacy
|Date: 17 Mar 97 19:21:36
EID:c5ef 22719aa0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d2940
* On 09-03-97 at 18:22, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Archive Staal's lunacy" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> rs> I have evidence of this from IRC Logs :)
FR> FR> Keep them! I've made the mistake of not archiving his
FR> FR> posts in the past yet now, since January, I've been
FR> FR> archiving everything. These bigots like to mouth off and
FR> fR> then later deny what they said later specifically so they
FR> FR> can pretend their betters are lying about them.
FR> rs> I think I sent the logs here :) :) They were a scream :)
FR> rs> Now Jimson never talks to me. Lives up to his IRC nick of
FR> rs> PoutyCat :)
FR> You did. Bathroom Staal has ___ALREADY___ demanded that he
FR> never saw them even though you posted them.
Further, he replied to your first reply of the logs -- where you
laugh at the whole channel conspiracy (tm). :) :) He knows the
logs were posted.
FR> I think you gave them attention to me rather than to him, however,
FR> so he'll be able to wiggle out from under the embarrassment
FR> until you do so. }:-}
Which I did a few packets back, to him. I wonder if he has
managed to scrape the egg off his face yet? :) :)
Rod "...hohohohohoh!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Live sex in a Toyota nixes evil
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Jim Staal's possible
|Date: 17 Mar 97 20:54:38
EID:2c87 2271a6c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d3f0e
* On 09-03-97 at 18:45, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Jim Staal's possible homo" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> fr> ~*~ Call me a thief and I'll behave like one... - Jim Staal
FR> FR> You're gay. (This should be interesting.) - Karl Schneider
FR> rs> *ROFL!*. He's not started behaving like one yet, has he Fredric?
FR> rs> What a shame. I do think it would be interesting, as Karl said
:)
FR> FR> It seems the most rabidly vocal homophobics are _always_ caught
FR> fR> with their dicks up some boy's ass eventually.
FR> rs> How eloquently put...
FR> Yes, unambiguous to a fault. }:-} Accurate to a fault.
And most likely prophetic. :)
FR> rs> I've noticed most moral-making people speak
FR> rs> about their vices. I've always found it ironic.
FR> There was a study reported here which I have put up in my
FR> web pages which cover the phenomena to some extent.
Really? :) :)
FR> It doesn't prove that all rabid homophobics like Staal are
FR> closet homosexuals harboring "homosexual feelings..." It
FR> presents a good probability of it, however.
Oh, no doubt. We can only talk about correlative tendencies, not
hard behavioural indicators or precursors to behaviours.
FR> Also the _history_ behind these people proves something.
Yes, the histories of Christian moral-makers, and their
tendencies in the areas in which they make morality, are undeniable.
FR> FR> I opine that Staal quite probably entertained homosexual
FR> FR> activities as a youth yet, like Jim Bakker and Jimmy Swaggart,
FR> FR> spit homophobic hatred and bigotry to deny something truthful about
FR> FR> themselves.
FR> rs> Yeah. Sounds about right. It fits. It's called denialism, and
FR> rs> the best bit is that most people who *are NOT* gay aren't vocally
FR> rs> denying of the fact, but merely calm in denying it.
FR> I would place money on it, yes... Lot of even money. The problem
FR> is one of scope.
Yes, it is. The problem is proofing our estimations.
FR> Just how long do we have to wait before they come
FR> out or get caught?
Some sick, pedophilic Christanic morons go years, and rape hundreds
of little boys or girls, before getting caught. They are sick.
Christians denies their Christianity, rather than condemn their
crimes. They probably even cluck happily about how these bastards
are "true Christians" until their fall from grace is exposed.
They must feel like idiots as they proclaim that they are suddenly
"false Christian scum" on the basis of exposition of their crimes.
FR> If I had placed money on Jim Bakkker as
FR> I had once mentioned, I would have had ___thousands___ of
FR> people bet. Of course I would now be spending all my time
FR> working on getting them all to pay up.
My guess for the big fall is that Terry Meeuwsen from The 700
Club. She looks like one that'd be a sorority slut! :) :)
Of the men, I reckon that Rev Don Wildmon deserves to be probed
real hard as to his activities. :)
FR> rs> Now, the only ones we have left to occupy the screaming
FR> rs> homophobic middle are the people who are either in denial over
FR> rs> their sexuality, or are desperately psychologically-imbalanced to
FR> rs> the point of paranoia over someone else having gay affection for
FR> rs> them... The latter being a very few people.
FR> I think we also get a great percentage who have been
FR> programmed to spout-off without any reason... they're not
FR> harboring "homosexual feelings" or have experienced
FR> something in their past they're trying to deny.
But of course. However, they normally require quite vigorous
stimulation to get them to spew their moronicisms. Some, you
just have to mention the word and it sets off a hot button. I
would say the quicker they are to pop, the greater the chance of
living in denial :)
Then again, there's also the "familial" paradigm to consider.
For example, vocal homophobes Beverly LaHaye, Charles Nicolosi,
Paul Cameron, William "Pete" Knight and no doubt others all have
gay family members -- all of them have gay sons! This is another
denialism case -- but of family members. Can you imagine how
fucked up one must be to get up on national evangelistic TV
forums and claim "all gays are sick" -- and they're saying the
product of their own loins and family are sick...?
Did you know these people peddle the idea that gays become gay
because of the "absent father" idea. It's so Freudian. However,
when you expose that they might be the absent parent... They get
all upset about their own theory! :) :)
FR> It's impossible to tell what was the motivation behind it.
Yes, but there's always some vector. People aren't born homophobic,
they choose or are indoctrinated.
FR> Staal appears to be the product of American propaganda
FR> during the 1960's and 1950's and it's possible he's not
FR> denying his feelings but simply suffering from said
FR> programming.
I wonder if the gay community will sue the federal government for
this horrendous propaganda that has led to the genocide of gay
people at the hands of violent Christanic bigots?
FR> I wish there was a way we could tell for sure. He won't tell.
He's never going to be honest, Fred. It's not a Christian thing.
FR> rs> Yes, but that's ok. Jesus had special
FR> rs> disciples whom "he loved" :) Jim can be one of those.
FR> Okay. We'll be sure that when "Jesus" "comes" again, Staal is
FR> ready for him
No doubt. It'll fulfil that deep-"seated" desire of Jim's! :)
I wonder if I get to have my lips seared now?!?! :)
FR> rs> After all, he's married to Wilbur, and likes hanging out at
FR> rs> leather bars. He's admitted that. That's half-way out of the
FR> rs> closet already :) :)
FR> I can't imagine how a woman would let someone like Staal
FR> touch her. It's imhuman.
It's also probably inhumane :) :)
Rod "...ho ho ho!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Nuke a godless homeless commie gay baby whale for Christ
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Abortion-clinic Bombing
|Date: 17 Mar 97 21:02:40
EID:cf2d 2271a840
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d40f0
* On 09-03-97 at 18:54, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Abortion-clinic Bombing" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> > Today (16 January 1996) ABC News World News Tonight with Peter
FR> > Jennings is reporting two abortion clinic bombings in Atlanta.
FR> > I won't even give you odds on a bet that this is some
FR> > Christian-inspired hatred.
FR> FR> Is there ever any doubt as to who's responsible?
FR> rs> Well, it's now apparent that the "Army of God" is taking
FR> rs> responsibility. These people are Christians. Yet another case
FR> rs> of DOMESTIC CHRISTIAN TERRORISM for Jimson to deny :)
FR> Yes, I've been watching that bigot try his best to deny the
FR> obvious. Man it's pathetic. He's even trying to deny that
FR> the KKK is a Christian organization now.
Ho ho ho! Christmas came early this year! :) Fortunate for us! :)
FR> I wonder if he realizes what the Klu Klux Klan would do to him
FR> if he were to tell them they're not Christians to their faces.
Can we get him an appointment with David Duke? I suppose they
both belong to the same political party -- Republicans! :)
FR> rs> Just like the gay nightclub bombing which they claim to
FR> rs> have done also. More DOMESTIC CHRISTIAN TERRORISM :)
FR> The only non-Christian terrorism I can think of envolves
FR> environmentalism and _never_ has resulted in the death of
FR> a single persion.
You are correct, however, I believe you are making that comment
within the parameters of "US Domestic Terrorism" :) You will
remember that Palestinians also like domestic terrorism, and so
too that World Trade Centre Conspiracists ;) But they were both
attributable in part or full to religious dogmatism :)
FR> Hell, even when the French commando sunk the Rainbow
FR> Warrior no one got killed as a result.
Uh, that's not correct. There were two deaths, from memory. I
know there was at least one death. I'll get back to you on this
one. However, that was clear espionage against the New Zealand
Government, and the Greenpeace organisation.
However, Greenpeace have helped us stick it up the froggies a few
times since then. Rainbow Warrior II seems to crop up following
nuclear-waste-carrying ships to Japan, or at Mururoa.
FR> FR> Traditional Family Values.
FR> rs> A new bumpersticker....
FR> rs> ATTENTION CHRISTIANS! Hate *AND*
FR> rs> terrorism are NOT family values! :) :)
FR> rs> I want one for my car :)
FR> I've seen some along those lines.
I have a few fun ones from shopping in Austin. Austin is a very
cool place. We really should have the Holysmoke Convention there
;) It's so nice, and there are the darnedest of fun people there.
FR> ~*~ The so-called psychic powers are not of the person, but are manifested
FR> through an evil spititual entity to take control over people. - Rob
Bamford
This is almost as funny as Ken Young claiming that the mind can
transform oneself -- into a hippopotamus was the challenge! :)
Rod "...hehehe, you gotta love God Dan for that one!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Atheist: a person with no invisible means of support
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Irc Log Fun!
|Date: 17 Mar 97 21:11:42
EID:3fe5 2271a960
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d430e
* On 09-03-97 at 18:59, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Irc Log Fun!" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> FR> Let's see if you can...
FR> fR> #1 Admit your a homophobic bigot
FR> JS> I am not.
FR> FR> So much for his previous claim, huh?
FR> rs> Yes, isn't it. Jimson is a bible believer, the bible has
FR> rs> contradictions, therefore Jimson is allowed to be contradictory
:)
FR> I do think that repeated attempts to reconcile the
FR> contradictions in the Christanic mythologies does lead
FR> toward the inability to lead a normal life.
Jim no longer has sentient interaction with reality. It's such a
shame. When reality contradicts Jimson, it's time for him to
stick his fingers in his ears and scream "IS NOT!" :) Such is
the sign of a strong mind bolstered by JEEEEZUS! :)
FR> rs> I note you have found the IRC log posts of mine,
FR> rs> as mentioned in another post of mine :) :)
FR> You bet! The same ones that Bathroom is even now trying to
FR> demand he never saw.
Ho ho ho! Just to rub his nose in it, I reposted it! :) :)
I just loved Katherine Wintersnight's (bow to the lady)
performance.
KWinIRC/msg> "Shall I go into my 'feminazi' sendup?"
ROFL! :) :)
FR> rs> Oh yes you are Jimbot! :) Of course, I was faking being Laurie
FR> rs> Appleton to you, but this was riotously funny:
FR> And the girl ___STILL___ doesn't get it, huh?
If he were any more of a nut, people would call him Almond! :)
FR> >>>> *katpurr* my partner is playing along :)
FR> >>>> *katpurr* enjoy :)
FR> FR> Idiot Staal has no clue -- even if he's told.
FR> FR> Even while he's being talked about publically he doesn't
FR> FR> acquire a clue as to what people are saying.
FR> rs> He's never seen that log with the /msgs between me and others.
FR> rs> We were all laughing about how gullible he was :) :)
FR> So cool! Alas I don't have ops privs and sadly people have
FR> been giving ops privs to fundies -- two things I never
FR> intended when _I_ created the #holysmoke forum.
Well, Jimson seems to have left us, unsadly! :)
FR> >> *KatPurr* Shal I go into my 'feminazi sendup?
FR> FR>
FR> rs> You must thank Katherine for playing along. She did help :) :)
FR> She's one of the good guys. }:-}
But of course ;) :) A real honorary hellion, and great mate, and
harpy to boot! A fair-dinkum sheila! :) :) :)
FR> rs> Nearly as good as Steingrobe thinking
FR> rs> I was Laurie Appleton online :) :)
FR> Mouthing the fundy rhetoric is easy, huh? And yet the
FR> reverse isn't true. They can't stand the attempt to sound
FR> reason if their lives depended upon it.
I've yet to see a fundie use any reasoning skills *completely*
throughout a message yet. Ken nearly touched base with reality
in the gay thread, but alas, he departed quickly. He was whining
about something about supporting rights federally, because he
didn't want to lose his rights for his chosen Christian lifestyle.
...but then quickly backpeddaled and said that local or state
legislative processes should be used, if the majority so chooses,
to do whatever they like to gays -- including, I suppose,
lynchings, torture, whippings, imprisonment, etc, etc.
Rod "...when I rehashed the sentence with the word 'black' in it,
you could have swore it came out of a KKK manual" Swift ;)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Hey, Rocky, watch me pull a saviour out of this virgin!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 17 Mar 97 21:33:44
EID:d18f 2271ac20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d4838
* On 09-03-97 at 19:04, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> FR> under the law. Out of nothing more nobel than hatred and
FR> FR> evil bigotry, the Christanic death cult has dictated that
FR> FR> homosexuals are unable to be recognized by the State as
FR> FR> married and thus they share an unfair tax burdon not levied
FR> FR> against their heterosexual equals.
FR> rs> The GAO has found 1049 US federal laws containing THOUSANDS of
FR> rs> special rights for married couples. It's not just the tax
FR> rs> burden. For example, Christopher and I live 8,000 miles apart
FR> rs> because of the fact we cannot marry, and hence we cannot sponsor
FR> rs> for immigration, for example.
FR> Hell. I didn't even think of that. That's even more tyranical and
unfair.
Actually, we are more than 8,000 miles apart. On the most direct
routing by air (Perth, Australia (PER) to Cairns, Australia (CNS)
to Honolulu, HI, USA (HNL) to Los Angeles, CA, USA (LAX) to
Dallas-Fort Worth, TX, USA (DFW)) is 10566 miles by my Air Tariff
Guide's ticketed point mileages.
However, because I travel on a cheaper routing (PER to Kuala
Lumpur, Malaysia (KUL) to Tokyo Narita, Japan (NRT) to LAX to
Houston Intercontinental, TX, USA (IAH) to DFW) it is further at
13002 miles, or alternatively, swapping Taipei, Korea, (TPE) for
Tokyo is 13004 miles.
If Christopher were to get sick tomorrow, it would take at least
72 hours, and $7k for me to get back there. The price may drop
if the airline recognises Christopher as an "immediate family
member" but under IATA rules, that is not defined as "gay
partner". It's solely at the discretion of the carrier. Even if
they did waive advance purchase rules on case of emergency, it'd
still be more than $3k.
Of course, gay people have full equality before the law, and
further, are allowed to live together -- just as a fundie bigot.
FR> ~*~ Staal is a prime example of someone who uses
FR> Jesus to excuse his behaviour. - Steve Quarrella
But, no, dear Steve. Jim has now been using the behaviours of
others to claim that they don't follow Jesus! :) [c.f.
Christanic militant terrorists]
Surely, he wants it BOTH ways.
Rod "...of course, he can't :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Paranoia is *total* awareness!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Kenny's CONTRADICTION!
|Date: 17 Mar 97 21:35:46
EID:2f9d 2271ac60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d48b2
* On 09-03-97 at 19:05, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Kenny's CONTRADICTION!" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> KY> Gays will go to Hell if they are not saved,
FR> ky> and if you are gay, you cannot be saved.
FR> rs> Note that GAYS CANNOT BE SAVED... That gays won't
FR> rs> have a chance to be saved...
FR> rs> Then he says:
FR> KY> Gay people do have a chance. But that chance is by getting
FR> KY> saved, and once saved, they will no longer be gay.
FR> rs> He now claims GAYS CAN BE SAVED... That they DO have a chance.
FR> Remember what I was saying about how having to try to reconcile the
FR> contradictions in their mythologies make them incapable of
FR> living normal lives out in the real world?
Yes, but "You are in Error" (c) Jim Staal, or "Evidence?" (c) Jim Staal,
or "You really should take a bible class" (c) Ken "hard drive" Wiens,
"Gays already have equal rights" (c) Ken "Jelly" Young...
FR> ~*~ I still can't make heads or tails or heads or
FR> tails or heads or tails. . . [whack!] out of it. - David Rice
An ironic and apt tagline for this message, Brother Fredric.
It's a sign of a second coming! :) :)
Rod "...so take your hand off it!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Diplomacy: Saying "nice doggy" until you can find a rock
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: More AP scaremongering
|Date: 17 Mar 97 21:39:48
EID:2ba4 2271ace0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d49a4
* On 09-03-97 at 19:15, FREDRIC RICE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "More AP scaremongering" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> rs> But money is missing - a great deal of it. Two of the five nonprofit
FR> rs> atheist organizations headed by Ms. O'Hair and her family - American
FR> rs> Atheists and United Secularists of America - have told the IRS that
FR> rs> they are missing $627,500 from a New Zealand trust account. Along
FR> rs> with at least another $25,000, the cash disappeared about the same
FR> rs> time as the trio.
FR> I would doubt the validity of these claims.
Don't shoot the messenger. I was just repeating what Reuters was
spreading about atheists :)
FR> rs> "These reports are true," Ms. Johnson wrote in the American Atheists
FR> rs> newsletter. "It was my decision to wait before making all discovered
FR> rs> information public, in the hope that we would find the O'Hairs first
FR> rs> - whether dead or alive."
FR> I wonder if she was disatisfied with the way her
FR> organizations were working and decided to start elsewhere.
FR> rs> The IRS wants them.
FR> The IRS may go fuck themselves.
I'll provide the launch vehicle, if you provide the orbiter! :)
FR> ~*~ Live within the law or we'll kill you within the law
FR> - Fredric Rice, HolySmoke
You've been getting lessons from Jim's Christian Bretheren. You
know, the ones he helped propagandise to in his ministering, yet
won't take responsibility for providing the "bible" as
ammunition, and the secular USA as the "enemy of Christ". :) :)
Rod "...I wonder how many people Jim has told that 'gays are
sick' or that 'atheists are trash'. I wonder how many people
have pulled the trigger because of the words of Jimson?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Nuke a godless homeless commie gay baby whale for Christ
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 17 Mar 97 22:02:50
EID:076b 2271b040
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d4f0a
* On 14-03-97 at 07:59, KARL SCHNEIDER wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "Oops, Caught Again" in echo Holysmoke:
KS> JS> I can't become a b***h as you have done, no.
KS> RS> Oh my, what Christian love and tolerance. I know of thousands of
KS> RS> places in the bible where Jesus was so loving and tolerant of
KS> RS> others to call them a "bitch!" :) :)
KS> JS>Where did I say 'bitch'?
KS> You tried to, above...except you weren't smart enough to spell it.
And he snipped the conversation prior to it, where he was
referring to a female person :) :)
Rod "...I've also asked him to provide the word he really meant
if he didn't mean 'bitch'" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Without fools there would be no wisdom
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 17 Mar 97 22:04:52
EID:868d 2271b080
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d4f84
* On 13-03-97 at 13:24, DAN CEPPA wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> DC> Aren't you the little bigot that claims that homosexuals cannot
DC> DC> repent?
DC> KY> Nope. I was misunderstood. All I was saying was that while they
are
DC> KY> gay, they cannot become Christian. But once they accept Christ
as
DC> KY> their savior, all homosexuality is gone.
DC> You really are that naive, aren't you, Kenny.
You really are too generous, God Dan. Why use naive when you can
use the word stupid, and be so more accurate in the description.
Admittedly, naive is a correct word for this case too :)
Rod "...just thought I'd let you know you were doing too many
good deeds, as an Atheist, you know! :)" Swift ;)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Close your mind quick! Something blasphemous may get in!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Stupid Staal Fiascoes
|Date: 17 Mar 97 22:05:54
EID:3eab 2271b0a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d4fc2
* On 14-03-97 at 01:25, DAN CEPPA wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Stupid Staal Fiascoes" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> JS> JS> FR> his homosexuality condemns himself." - Jim Staal
DC> JS> Sorry, pal, it is very biblical and demonstrates
DC> JS> no hatred on my part.
DC> DC> Then the god you follow is a homophobic bigot, Jimbo.
DC> KY> Tell me, how can a supernatural being that knows all and that can
do
DC> KY> anything, be afraid of anything, especially humans for their
DC> KY> immorality?
DC> Your man-made paper god is always afraid, Kenny. It is most
DC> afraid of knowledge. It attemps to keep it's followers in
DC> line by keeping them ignorant.
Most of all, the Christians are afraid their paper god, because
it is stagnant, will continue to get more and more irrelevant as
science progresses more and proves their paper god, and the
scriptures of the paper god, wrong.
Rod "...praise Jesus for scientific advancement!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Any milk can make cheese. Here, have some gerbil cheese.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: hateful
|Date: 17 Mar 97 22:06:56
EID:e3cc 2271b0c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d5000
* On 13-03-97 at 02:29, ROBERT CURRY wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "hateful" in echo Holysmoke:
RC> RC> Well, Ken? I'm still waiting. Why are you so hateful?
RC> KY> Correction: The proper question should be, "Why am I so
RC> KY> full of love?"
RC> Now you're full of shit: You stated that YOU HATE homosexuality.
He will now flip-flop and claim he does not hate. I have
provided the dictionary definition of hate, and he indeed does
hate homosexuality.
RC> There is no point in attempting to hide the fact by snipping away
RC> the context, Ken. Everyone here saw what you said. You are full
RC> of HATE by your own admission.
RC> So I ask you a third time:
RC> Why are you so hateful, Ken? What's making you HATE so strongly?
Jesus' love, and a big gun at the head of some victim. Yep.
Ken's going to be the next Christian domestic terrorist. And
it's all our fault for pushing him over the edge :) :)
Rod "....wahhhhhhhhhhhhh!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Necrotelecomnicon: Book of dead phone numbers
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Stupid Staal Fiascoes
|Date: 17 Mar 97 22:12:58
EID:bc61 2271b180
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d516a
* On 09-03-97 at 12:46, FREDRIC RICE wrote to DAN CEPPA,
on the topic of "Stupid Staal Fiascoes" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> FR> I am condemning no one. The homosexual who sexually practices
FR> FR> his homosexuality condemns himself." - Jim Staal
FR> JS> Sorry, pal, it is very biblical and demonstrates no hatred on my
part.
FR> Amazing, huh? Death cultists have done this for centuries
FR> and they still get away with it. Except that over the last
FR> ten years or so we've finally started to actually make some
FR> progress.
I have an article here entitled:
ISLAMIC MILITANTS KILL CHRISTIANS
It is datelined Cairo, Egypt.
Apparently, when Islamic people shoot people in a predominantly
Coptic Christian village in Egypt, AP portrays this as:
Militants Kill
However, if the religion of the militants is Christian, like in
the recent attacks in the US, you don't see:
CHRISTIAN MILITANTS KILL INNOCENT VICTIMS
If we did, you'd have every Christanic whining to their local
paper about "biased news coverage".
However, is it a fact? Were the people Christian? Yes. They
professed so. Were they militant? Yes. Did they kill? Yes.
Were the victims innocent? Yes.
Secular Americans should be asking newspapers to call a spade a
spade. If it's Christian domestic terrorism, the news story
should state that it was religious terrorism in the name of
Christianity.
If Christians don't like the fact that some of their bretheren
are murderous shitheads, then they should learn to identify and
reform these morons *and speak out* to condemn the act, instead
of gleefully sitting back and wringing their hands in convenience
because someone has offed their enemy -- yet they deny the
murderer is one of their own!
FR> DC> Then the god you follow is a homophobic bigot, Jimbo.
FR> JS> Not at all. He does, however, make the rules.
FR> dc> Yes, Jimbo. You concur that you "god" is a bigot. After
FR> dc> all, you do say the he's 'in you'. Does he wear a condom?
FR> "But but but! But that's different!"
Because God is allowed to be a Childish Bully(tm). All didactic
and supremacist god constructs seem to be the most childish, and
most active in throwing deific temper tantrums in their
scriptures.
FR> * Origin: Xians aren't forgiven 'til their victims forgive them (1:218/890)
CORRECT! Let's make this the motto for the secular revolution in
the reporting of Christian Crimes!
Rod "...I think it's just and fair!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Commit the oldest sins the newest kind of ways
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 17 Mar 97 22:19:00
EID:d18f 2271b260
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d52d4
* On 09-03-97 at 19:27, FREDRIC RICE wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> FR> few are Muslim, Buddhists, or Jewish. There are no atheist hate
groups.
FR> ky> No? Just by a group being an atheist group, generally means
FR> ky> it is a hate group. Don't they generally hate Christianity?
FR> Correct, there are none. Every hate group in the United
FR> States is a _religious_ hate group comprised of nearly 100%
FR> Christians, with Muslims, Buddhists, and Jews picking up
FR> the rest. There are _no_ atheist hate groups operating in
FR> the United States -- and there never has been.
You don't see atheists bombing abortion clinics to cause terror,
or bombing federal buildings, or threatening federal court
houses, or bombing gay bars, or terrorising people trying to
access abortion clinics by sidewalk preaching.
Atheists don't terrorise our secular nation and our non-religious
families by screeching out canned hatred every day on talk radio.
No. This is the domain of the hateful Christians.
FR> And you joined that. Hell, you make no apology for the
FR> evil you joined _and_ mouth off. Your hatred of
FR> homosexuals is strictly in keeping with traditional
FR> Christanic death cultism.
It's certainly not keeping with scientific facts. He even claims
that science *DOES* not contradict him, even AFTER I provide
citations in science journals.
FR> FR> nobel than hatred and evil bigotry, the Christanic
FR> FR> death cult has dictated that homosexuals are unable to
FR> FR> be recognized by the State as married and thus they
FR> FR> share an unfair tax burdon not levied against their
FR> FR> heterosexual equals.
FR> ky> You seem to think that the Christian force in a lot stronger than
it is.
FR> You seem to deny all of Christianity's history as well as
FR> what it does to the world today. Shall we enumerate
FR> together what the death cult is responsible for in the
FR> past? Shall we list what the death cult is doing to
FR> innocent MILLIONS today?
Why not? He claimed that Christians were persecuted more than
gays, only a few posts ago. I debunked that.
FR> After we're done with that shall we examine why _you_ are a
FR> willing participant in the single most evil ideological
FR> construct ever created by men?
He has an inadequate penile structure?
FR> FR> But then we're talking Christianity here... the single
FR> FR> most evil and deadly construct ever to be created by
FR> FR> mankind.
FR> ky> And what do we base this on?
FR> You have no desire to even learn the history of your own
FR> death cult. Your masters have been very careful to make
FR> sure you never escape their clutches by actually learning
FR> the history of and the origins of your death cult.
Ask him how many people he has told that 'gays choose'. Ask him
how many people will spread that lie. How many people has he
told that gays can 'change'? How many of these people will turn
into crackpots. How much blood is on his hand for spreading the
lie in which the bullet is wrapped? How many people have
intimately met baseball bats due to his lies?
Just how much blood is on his hands.
FR> Try looking at yourself in the mirror, pig. You'll see
FR> evil at its worse: Someone who joined the KKK, stomps his
FR> little foot, and demands he's not a racist.
He will now stamp his foot and not take responsibility for the
agenda of lies he spreads -- the agenda that leads to gay and
lesbian people being bashed more times than any other minority
*COMBINED*.
Rod "...I hope he sees the blood on his hands" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Any closet is a walk-in closet if you try hard enough
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 17 Mar 97 22:20:02
EID:aae4 2271b280
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d5312
* On 14-03-97 at 07:59, KARL SCHNEIDER wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
KS> KY> DC> Aren't you the little bigot that claims that homosexuals cannot
KS> KY> DC> repent?
KS> KY>Nope. I was misunderstood. All I was saying was that while they
KS> KY>are gay, they cannot become Christian. But once they accept Christ
KS> KY>as their savior, all homosexuality is gone.
KS> And that is a blatent lie.
Of course it is. I've provided the citations that disprove his
"theory".
He's yet to provide any to justify the theory!
Rod "...but that's because the evidence he has is 'My Masters
Told Me So' or 'My Church Indoctrinated Me So'" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * At least I never misplaced the Deltivid asteroid belt - Q
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: Ken Young: Poster Chi
|Date: 17 Mar 97 22:24:04
EID:ed7f 2271b300
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d5404
* On 12-03-97 at 17:26, ROGER HUNTER wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "KEN YOUNG: POSTER CHI" in echo Holysmoke:
RH> KY> Also, I have met gays who also say that they weren't always that
way.
RH> Possibly not, before puberty. Or they were just lying to themselves.
Yes. The lying to themselves was the suppression of their
homosexual orientation through self-denial and public-denial.
This is forced upon them by their peers, their schools, their
parents, their religious leaders.
Some of these children never make it to adulthood. A 1989 report
by the US Government into youth suicide concluded that about 30%
of all suicides were due to the person's sexual orientation, and
the pressures under which they had to exist due to intolerance.
I note that Ken promotes this intolerance to others, and
perpetuates the myths. I hope that Ken is proud to know that
every kid pulling the trigger is doing so because they've been
told they're "sick" and that "God hates them".
In fact, it is a common counselling technique in anti-gay
ministries to tell their emprisoned subjects that it is much
better to kill themselves than to be gay.
RH> KY> You may be able to argue whether or not some were born that way,
but
RH> KY> there is nothing you can say to help your argument that all gays
or bis
RH> KY> were born that way.
RH> You mean you have your fingers in your ears and are shouting "IS NOT!"
RH> too loudly for you to hear any evidence.
He's failed to PROVIDE any, either :)
RH> We're onto you, Ken.
*fingers in ear* "ARE NOT!!!!"
Rod "...hahahaah" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * As Piglet psychosexually said, "Bounce on me too Tigger!"
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 62 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Exemplifying examples 1/
|Date: 17 Mar 97 22:26:06
EID:7a9c 2271b340
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d547e
* On 14-03-97 at 07:59, KARL SCHNEIDER wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Exemplifying examples 1/" in echo Holysmoke:
KS> KY>find such a thing very sick indeed. But, a majority of
KS> KY>molesters do appear t
KS> KY>be gay.
KS> You are a liar.
How many youths will commit suicide because people who listen to
Ken pressure them?
Does Ken see the blood on his hands, or the gun in his hands, or
the rope in his hands?
I wonder when he will.
Rod "...I wonder if he ever will" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * When talking nonsense try not to be serious
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Around the World in.. 2/
|Date: 17 Mar 97 22:28:08
EID:bece 2271b380
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d54f8
* On 14-03-97 at 07:59, KARL SCHNEIDER wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "Around the World in.. 2/" in echo Holysmoke:
KS> JS> RS> sexual orientation are not *special rights*. Heterosexuals
would
KS> JS> RS> be as equally able to claim discrimination if fired for being
KS> JS> RS> straight.
KS> JS> You can't fire someone for being gay.
KS> You are a fucking liar.
Someone mention, from among others:
Dell Computers, Cracker Barrell, Wendys, The United
States Armed Forces, any position in the administration
of the Boy Scouts of America, any secular job position
in any religious institution, ministry or school, The
State of Georgia.
Thank you! :)
Rod "...there are citable cases in all those arenas, in the past
3 years" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Blessed are the fundies, for they shall INHIBIT the Earth
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Karl Schneider
|Sub: Ken Young: Poster child
|Date: 17 Mar 97 22:29:10
EID:03fc 2271b3a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d5536
* On 14-03-97 at 07:59, KARL SCHNEIDER wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Ken Young: Poster child" in echo Holysmoke:
KS> KY> KS> If she's bi now, she always was.
KS> KY>Not according to her.
KS> KY>Also, I have met gays who also say that they weren't
KS> KY>always that way. You ma
KS> KY>be able to argue whether or not some were born that way,
KS> KY>but there is nothing
KS> KY>you can say to help your argument that all gays or bis were born
that way
KS> I think you are lying. Give me some names, addresses or phone numbers.
A few scientific journal articles wouldn't go astray from him,
don't you think Karl? :) :)
Rod "...I wonder why he has failed to provide ONE SHRED of
EVIDENCE to his claims" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Psychic convention cancelled due to unforeseen problems
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: clones
|Date: 17 Mar 97 22:34:12
EID:d8ab 2271b440
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d5664
* On 13-03-97 at 16:51, ANTHONY GRIGOR-SCOTT wrote to KARL SCHNEIDER,
on the topic of "clones" in echo Holysmoke:
AG> Dear Doofus,
Such Christian love. You are obviously following Jesus'
commandment to love your enemies. You are also obviously
following the commandment to treat enemies as you would like them
to treat you.
Since this is the case, and you are a committed Christian...
Stargoaty Greetings in the precious Flatulence of our Lord
StarGoat, buttfuck!
AG> KS> I'm talking about when they begin to clone humans.
AG> I have no idea what impact cloning humans could have on Christianity.
You don't mean that you and your fellow Christanic
holocaust-deniers won't clone a new SS?
Rod "...So, Anthony, tell me about how the Jews control all the
money, eh?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Christians wanted, apply at Perth Zoo's lion cage
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 17 Mar 97 22:37:14
EID:fcd5 2271b4a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d571a
* On 13-03-97 at 13:59, DAN CEPPA wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> RS> You use the word "gook" as a synonym for the languages and
DC> RS> peoples of Vietnam.
DC> JS>So what has that to do with speaking/spelling Gook, eh?
DC> DC> while you ignore your use of the word, 'Gook', "English Major".
DC> JS> b. where above did I make any reference to the _peoples_ of
DC> JS> Vietnam as Rod accused?? Huh?
DC> You have all the intelligence of a truck load of fence post holes.
It was nice to know he admits now that he did use "gook" to refer
to the languages of the Vietnamese people.
Rod "...the other accusation of mine, that I claimed he referred
to the peoples as that term, was, of course, a clever hellion
hook to draw out this admission!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Psychic convention cancelled due to unforeseen problems
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Lunatic buttfucks
|Date: 17 Mar 97 22:38:16
EID:38c4 2271b4c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d5758
* On 13-03-97 at 14:43, DAN CEPPA wrote to KEN WIENS,
on the topic of "Lunatic buttfucks" in echo Holysmoke:
DC> KW> Only He knows when He is coming. That He is coming you can take
DC> KW> to the bank.
DC> I tried. They didn't allow me any collateral on it.
I went to the bank. The sperm bank. Not only were they not
interested in holy semen, but the fact that the donor will not
present himself soon means they are not interested in him
"coming" any time soon.
Rod "... Jesus, what a cheapskate, to think he's trying to earn
money through sperm donation!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Gun Control: The ability to drop a fundie at 500 yards
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: He Does It Again!
|Date: 17 Mar 97 22:43:18
EID:052b 2271b560
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d5886
* On 13-03-97 at 22:43, ED MILLS wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "He Does It Again!" in echo Holysmoke:
EM> MG> Fuck your god.
EM> MM> No, I am pretty sure sex with a supernatural being is forbidden.
EM> KY> Show me where it says that she did that act with Him.
EM> There's proof she didn't have to: the Turkey Baster of Turin.
Mary may have been a lesbian, but it's SHROUDed in mystery.
Rod "ho ho ho! Pun!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * And God said: E = +mv} - Ze}/r... and there *was* light!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 17 Mar 97 22:45:20
EID:7498 2271b5a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d5900
* On 09-03-97 at 10:27, FREDRIC RICE wrote to MARILYN BURGE,
on the topic of "Exemplifying examples" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> MB> Fundies may subconsciously make the choice to be braindead.
FR> JB> Uh, don't they do that consciously?
FR> mb> If you're braindead, you aren't conscious. Or haven't you
FR> mb> noticed that trait in the fundies we get here -- the cream
FR> mb> of the crop, as it were.
FR> Maybe that explains it! They're a crop of creamed fundies!
What have I told those boys about their religious mutual circle
jerk. They just want the second coming *every* single day!
FR> I think you've stumbled onto something here. (Don't step in it!)
Yes, it's icky, and you never know... there may be life in that
ejaculate! :)
Rod "...and I'm sure that Marilyn would not want to give birth to
a hideously-unintelligent, grotesque, knuckledragging afterbirth.
She probably wouldn't like having to pass the newborn's placenta
either! :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't just do something!!! Stand there!!!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Hunting churches
|Date: 17 Mar 97 22:47:22
EID:3ad8 2271b5e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d597a
* On 09-03-97 at 10:44, FREDRIC RICE wrote to DAN CEPPA,
on the topic of "Hunting churches" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> Ken Young Jelly> And no, currently I am church hunting..
FR> Just imagine the lucky church he finds.
How many of his fellow parishioners will believe his bullshit
about gays, and go around harrassing, beating and killing gays?
I feel sickened by the thought that KY Jelly is changing church,
and hence spreading his social disease -- homophobia.
Rod "...yuck!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Psychic convention cancelled due to unforeseen problems
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Alternative Or Straw
|Date: 17 Mar 97 22:53:24
EID:412c 2271b6a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d5ae4
* On 09-03-97 at 11:00, FREDRIC RICE wrote to DAVID RAGLAND,
on the topic of "ALTERNATIVE OR STRAW" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> DR> likely to be accurate in content. I know enough about science in
FR> DR> general to know that that it cannot yet prove or disprove evolution
FR> That belief serves to indicate that you know nothing about
FR> science... or biology. Evolution is a demonstrated
FR> phenomena not subject to debate, just as gravitation is not
FR> subject to debate.
FR> I suspect you have no idea what evolution is. What have
FR> your masters been telling you is evolution?
I have an article lying around here from New Scientist magazine,
issue #2001, about "throwing evolution into reverse". Back in
1995, they carried an article about changing Hox genes in all
sorts of animals, and the changes in these genes activate
biological structures that are not atypical to the types of
structures in animals from which these animals descended.
Example, they had one where they played with a mouse and it
gained some very distinctly amphibian structures, and gained more
ribs, just by playing with one gene. The ear of the mouse (like
most mammals) has a malleus/incus/stapes structure and a tympanic
membrane to detect sound. This is a very efficient hearing
system, and evolution states that the mammals descended from
previous species that had a two-bone ear structure, and some that
didn't even have a specialised ear bone structure for the
transmission of sound before them.
Playing with this gene produced mice with the hearing structure
of now extinct amphibians.
They also know the predecessors to the fruit fly (which has only
one set of wings) had many more wings. By knocking out a gene,
they produce fruit flies with 9 pairs of wings! Just like
ancestors! :) :)
The article mentions that (as at 1995) 2000 articles had been
published in science journals on Hox gene knockouts in various
experiments.
Rod "...did you want me to reproduce the whole article?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Without fools there would be no wisdom
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: 7 The List
|Date: 17 Mar 97 22:54:26
EID:5c43 2271b6c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d5b22
* On 09-03-97 at 11:22, FREDRIC RICE wrote to SHELBY SHERMAN,
on the topic of "7 The List" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> KW> *David Worrell, TN Small Dicked Too
long
FR> KW> for aka Azirafel Misogynist (tm)
FR> KW> other's comfort
FR> KW> -about
FR> ss> At least you made the list, you needle-dicked woman hater.
FR> <-sob-> Some of us long-timers didn't even make the list.
At last check, you were on the list, Damocles! :) :)
Rod "...just informing you!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Do not adjust your mind, the fault is with reality.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Back
|Date: 17 Mar 97 22:58:28
EID:08d5 2271b740
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d5c14
* On 09-03-97 at 12:12, FREDRIC RICE wrote to JASON HARMON,
on the topic of "Back" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> But we all _loved_ Jesse Christ Jones very much! Sure we
FR> did! His bizarre tirades about how the Soviet Union was
FR> `evil' while at the same time being totally incapable of
FR> explaining exactly why was _priceless_. His bizarre claims
FR> of emotions being caused by his gods was also priceless.
There is a quote, and I don't know whom it is attributable to,
but it goes something like:
The only difference between communism and capitalism is
that the communists have had the courage to admit they
were wrong.
Rod "...edification, no?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't believe in miracles, expect them
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Bathroom Staal
|Date: 17 Mar 97 23:01:30
EID:28b1 2271b820
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d5cca
* On 09-03-97 at 13:05, FREDRIC RICE wrote to DAVE HAMILTON,
on the topic of "Bathroom Staal" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> ~*~ Would you ever think about letting her watch us?
FR> -- Debra Murphree, quoteing Jimmy Swaggart
FR> asking about her nine year old daughter.
FR> (Penthouse magazine, July 1988)
I thought it was *SEX EDUCATION* that caused INCEST! Maybe
that's why Jimmy wanted to educate Debra's child, no, so he could
have the nine-year-old?
And a quote:
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Sex education classes in our public schools are promoting incest.
-- Rev. Jimmy Swaggart, "Jimmy Swaggart Hour"
August 19, 1984
___-------------------------------------------------------------------
Rod "...interesting, no?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't just do something!!! Stand there!!!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: HolySmoke Convention / M
|Date: 17 Mar 97 23:03:32
EID:3689 2271b860
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d5d44
* On 09-03-97 at 13:15, FREDRIC RICE wrote to STEVE QUARRELLA,
on the topic of "HolySmoke Convention / Me" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> Well all know the history of Christianity. Everyone in
FR> this forum understand what Christians have been capable of
FR> doing and what they're capable of doing today. Metal
FR> detectors at the doors is, I conclude, a must at the
FR> convention.
Since all the fundies so far have told me via IRC they won't turn
up if I'm there, maybe we should just not publish the details of
the conference.
After all, we are allowed to discriminate on the basis of
religious choice. We're not a government :) :)
Rod "...ho ho ho!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * "Bones! That, feels, wonderful, yes!" "It's head, Jim!"
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Irc Log Fun!
|Date: 17 Mar 97 23:06:34
EID:3fe5 2271b8c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d5dfa
* On 09-03-97 at 13:38, FREDRIC RICE wrote to BATHROOM STAAL,
on the topic of "Irc Log Fun!" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> FR> Let's see if you can...
FR> FR> #1 Admit your a homophobic bigot
FR> JS> I am not.
FR> FR> I knew the experiment would pass.
FR> ibs> What experiment?
FR> Yep.
Yep, Fred, you were right. I doubted the experiment but now I'm
a true believer after that experiment not passing. :) :)
Rod "...good work, Hellion Brother Fredric :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Famous graffitti: Please don't write on the -- oops!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Ooooh! Such a _powerful
|Date: 17 Mar 97 23:06:36
EID:a6a9 2271b8c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d5dfc
* On 09-03-97 at 13:41, FREDRIC RICE wrote to BATHROOM STAAL,
on the topic of "Ooooh! Such a _powerful" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> FR> #1 Admit your a homophobic bigot
FR> rS> I have evidence of this from IRC Logs :)
FR> js> I guess you should post it or eat it, Rod.
FR> FR> He did, you lunatic! And after you read it you made some Christanic
FR> FR> comments about how much you were "still laughing."
FR> ibs> No, he didn't. I saw no IRC log here.
FR> I don't doubt your masters have not let you see the truth, buttfuck.
Ask if he saw the repost specifically addressed to him!? :) :)
Rod "...hohohoh!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Black hole: where God divided by zero during creation
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Staal wants to know.
|Date: 17 Mar 97 23:08:38
EID:454f 2271b900
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d5e76
* On 09-03-97 at 13:42, FREDRIC RICE wrote to BATHROOM STAAL,
on the topic of "Staal wants to know." in echo Holysmoke:
FR> MG> Does anyone outside of Jim Staal actually believe that
FR> MG> Leipzig set his dog on a the pizza delivery boy just to get
FR> MG> out of paying for the things?
FR> RS> No. I don't.
FR> ibs> Why not? You believe every lie Satan puts in your mind...
FR> FR> Rod isn't a Christanic death cultist. As such he doesn't worship
the
FR> FR> Christanic gods.
FR> ibs> What has Christ to do with Rod or Rod believing the lies of Satan?
FR> You claimed Rod was a Christian, Promise Keeper. Before one can
FR> believe in the Christian "Satan" god one must _be_ a Christian, you
FR> ignorant fuck.
I've worked it out, Fred. When Jim was born, they slapped the
placenta, and threw the foetus out! :) :)
Rod "...explaining Jim's lack of humanity" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Never attribute to malice that which stupidity explains
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Staal stinks a little lo
|Date: 17 Mar 97 23:10:40
EID:f0f2 2271b940
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d5ef0
* On 09-03-97 at 14:04, FREDRIC RICE wrote to BATHROOM STAAL,
on the topic of "Staal stinks a little low" in echo Holysmoke:
FR> RS> FLORIDA -- State court removed child from lesbian
FR> RS> mother and gave custody to father. Father
FR> RS> is a convicted wife-beater and murderer.
FR> iJS> Would that seem to say that a wife-beater and murderer
FR> ijs> is a better role model than a lesbian???
FR> _Please_ keep mouthing off your evil hatred and bigotry,
FR> Jim. Don't _ever_ let anyone think there's any virtue in
FR> the Christanic death cult you speak for.
I asked him, if he were the judge in the case, which person he'd
give it to *and why NOT* the other.
He stated neither, and gave no reason as to why he invalidated
both custody candidates. How typically dishonest.
Rod "...what else could we expect from the biggest buttfuck this
side of Lake Erie!" Swift ;)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Bugger me with a fish fork!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ric Carter
|Sub: How do you pray ?
|Date: 17 Mar 97 23:20:42
EID:1625 2271ba80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d614a
* On 14-03-97 at 02:30, RIC CARTER wrote to ALL,
on the topic of "How do you pray ?" in echo Holysmoke:
[horoscopic prayers deleted]
One word... you may quote me:
Pisces -- surfboards for Scorpios.
Rod "...ho ho ho!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Blessed are the fundies, for they shall INHIBIT the Earth
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: The end of the world is
|Date: 17 Mar 97 23:28:44
EID:edf8 2271bb80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d632c
* On 13-03-97 at 19:27, SUE ARMSTRONG wrote to DAVID WORRELL,
on the topic of "The end of the world is n" in echo Holysmoke:
SA> At least Ottawa's buses come in a more or less timely manner; our
SA> buses like to pick a spot and sit there for 20 minutes or so, if the
SA> driver feels like he wants another coffee.
Ours no longer come on time, nor regularly, nor on the correct
route, due to the wonders of "privatisation".
SA> Of course, Windsor just bought a bunch of brand-new buses from
SA> California - very sleek, quiet, and modern, but you can't read the
SA> freaking route signs during the day - it's all LED display, and the
pretty
SA> little lights get washed out whenever the sun shines.
But of course. You'd think they'd have used those electronic
signs that involve the "dots" that flip themselves from black
dots to flourescent green/yellow/orange... All the rear route
number displays on Transperth buses have these electronic
flip-dot designs, and are quite easy to read.
At night, they illuminate the destination box on the front, side
and back of bus, instead of resorting to LEDs
SA> I've also noticed that the more modern the bus, the less comfortable
SA> the seats. We still have a few of the clunky old buses with actual
SA> PADDED BENCHES instead of those hard moulded plastic travesties.
We have an interesting solution on our public transport buses and
trains. The chairs are padded, but have a chained meshing
underneath, and then the hard plastic bases and backings. This
is to stop vandalism, ripping of seat cushions, etc.
They are very comfortable :) :) The cushions are about 5 inches
thick.
SA> Those Californian buses have taken the uncomfortable seat concept a
SA> step further; worse, there's LESS SEATS in total. I suppose
SA> they're meant to be wheelchair-friendly...
Our system has converted to articulated buses (i.e. bends in
middle) that hold 100 people, 56 of them seated, the network,
however, drops you at a rail station normally, for rail
connections to the city on our new high-speed rail network :)
SA> Toronto, though, is another story. They have a
SA> decent transit system, and their traffic is so bad, it behooves one
SA> to park at a far-flung subway station and take the tube downtown.
I'm surprised Canada has not pushed a park and ride (rail) or bus
and rail connected network as a high priority. Such systems are
very effective at passenger movement because you can hub and
transfer passengers at high-speed rail connections, rather than
have buses sitting on freeways.
Rod "...here, the buses system used to fail due to freeway
congestion" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves! Krishna invests! Cthulhu forcloses!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Pedophile Christian cook
|Date: 17 Mar 97 23:30:00
EID:75a8 2271bbc0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d6378
* On 14-03-97 at 19:47, ED MILLS wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Pedophile Christian cook" in echo Holysmoke:
EM> FR> rs > Oh, but the john1@heterosexual.com is a most fun vanity
EM> FR> rs> email address. You do know of Fred Cherry, don't you?
EM> FR> That name doesn't ring any particular bells, no.
EM> RS> He's a Jewish atheist (his words), and he's a sick little puppy.
EM> RS> He's also my nemesis on USENET :)
EM> What newsgroup?
Try alt.atheism, alt.culture.jewish, and alt.christnet :)
EM> I just got on the internet a while back and I wanna get in
EM> the shit. :)
Do a search on the boy. He's john1@usa.net :)
Rod "...he's a vile little cretin" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Physicist: An atom's way of knowing about atoms!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Christanic terrorists
|Date: 17 Mar 97 23:31:02
EID:048c 2271bbe0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d63b6
* On 14-03-97 at 19:53, ED MILLS wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Christanic terrorists" in echo Holysmoke:
EM> FR> And they burned down another clinic yesterday. They're going to
force t
EM> FR> authorities to stop playing by the rules and start treating
EM> FR> them as the terrorists they are.
EM> RS> ----------
EM> RS> This is what it is. The more people who start using the term to
EM> RS> describe their acts, the more condemnation their acts will
EM> RS> receive.
EM> RS> Condemn CHRISTIAN DOMESTIC TERRORISM.
EM> Methinks it's time to establish a volunteer corps of armed
EM> pro-choice activists to guard the clinics.
EM> I'd be good for a couple hours a week.
I would be good for a few hours a week too.
Rod "...sign me up!" Swift ;)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't believe in miracles, expect them
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Laurie Appleton
|Sub: Alternative or Straw.
|Date: 17 Mar 97 23:33:04
EID:85a6 2271bc20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d6430
* On 15-03-97 at 12:01, LAURIE APPLETON wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Alternative or Straw." in echo Holysmoke:
LA> Hi Rod,
LA> (Re: yours of 07-Mar-1997, "Alternative of Straw.")
LA> RS> * On 04-03-97 at, LAURIE APPLETON wrote to MARTIN GOLDBERG,
LA> LA> You are a lying son of a bitch.
LA> RS> Such a loving response from someone who couldn't answer
LA> RS> the question. You're obviously filled with Christ's love
LA> RS> and compassion.
LA> I expected that someone like you might show their utter
LA> confusion and lack of logic and rationality...
You didn't like the exposition. Did you shoot your load? Who
has their hand on your penis, and whose penis do you have your
hand on, today in your Christian mutual circle jerk?
LA> You are a lying son of a bitch.
I love you too, little bitchling!
Rod "...remember, Laurie, I have not quoted you out of context
whatsoever, because the words I quoted are accurate! :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * I ain't broke, but I'm badly bent
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Mark O'Neill
|Sub: Test your knowledge
|Date: 17 Mar 97 23:35:06
EID:f907 2271bc60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d64aa
* On 15-03-97 at 23:59, MARK O'NEILL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Test your knowledge" in echo Holysmoke:
MO> RS> As I promised. The US Federal Bureau of Prisons sent me data on
MO> RS> religious affiliation at time of prison entry for all prisoners
in
MO> RS> Federal prisons.
MO> Ooh! Something I'm very curious to see.
MO> RS> You have 96,968 prisoners total to divide among the following groups:
MO>
MO> RS> That should leave you with about 80,000 to spread across the above
MO> RS> groups.
MO> Too damn tired. (And a wee bit............. happy) %-) Maybe tomorrow.
Please, if you don't mind :) :)
MO> RS> Post your guesses here. I'll post the actual figures on 21 March.
MO> Cool! I'll be watching. :-)
You will be surprised. If religion didn't really play into
crime, you'd expect the 15% atheists in the US to comprise 15% of
the prison population. Since 80,000 expressed a religious
preference, and atheist was offered as a preference, you'd expect
12,000 atheists to identify themselves as atheists in prison, all
other things equal.
Rod "...even if you put the atheist population at 10%, it'd be
8,000. And that Christian claimed 99.5% were godless atheists,
on IRC, which is a whopping 77,600 out of the 80,000!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Borg Express -- don't be assimilated without it!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: More Christian nuts
|Date: 17 Mar 97 23:37:08
EID:b6b2 2271bca0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d6524
* On 15-03-97 at 19:30, STEVE QUARRELLA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "More Christian nuts" in echo Holysmoke:
SQ> SQ> RS>> His criticism brought a response from Sen Alfonse
SQ> SQ> RS>> D'Amato, a New York Republican, who told the Senate Coburn's
SQ> SQ> RS>> statement was ``shocking.''
SQ> Senator in question appeared briefly on Howard Stern's
SQ> radio show last week to tell him that he thought Stern's
SQ> movie, "Private Parts," is fantastic. Smart man. :)
D'Amato is a very good Senator, and a very good man. He
understands the secularity of US Government.
SQ> RS> Of course, he doesn't whine about those movies, because they are
SQ> RS> pro-Christian. Anything that is not pro-Christian is subject to
SQ> RS> attack -- even if it contains graphic yet *realistic* portrayals
SQ> RS> of events.
SQ> I wish I had the cash to put up for a movie version of
SQ> Moorcock's "Behold the Man." We're about due for another
SQ> anti-Jesus movie.
Oh, aren't they whining anymore about "The Last Temptation of
Christ" or "Pass the Ammo"? :) :)
SQ> RS> The nudity displayed in Schindler's List was certainly not
SQ> RS> pornographic, but realism. You'd have to be pretty sick to get
SQ> RS> turned on by such a display of nudity as a pornographic item.
SQ> Remember, though: We're dealing with people who equate
SQ> their "Satan" with human genitalia.
:) :) Satan lives in my peeeenis! :)
Rod "...Jim is a dickhead. Does that mean Satan lives inside his
head?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * ...Pro-life? Then what are you doing about TOBACCO?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: A quote for you
|Date: 17 Mar 97 23:45:10
EID:b7a2 2271bda0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d6706
* On 15-03-97 at 19:33, STEVE QUARRELLA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "A quote for you" in echo Holysmoke:
SQ> SQ>> There's a good book about this theory, Rod. It's called "Mein
Kampf,"
SQ> RS> But of course. The unification of a majority against any
SQ> RS> minority/minorities is the core premise of most destructive
SQ> RS> regimes.
SQ> And how many times have we seen Fundies in this VERY ECHO yammer
SQ> on about how their alleged "majority" viewpoint should take precedence.
You been keeping a count on the number of days this echo has
existed, then multiplied by 2?
SQ> "Hey, if the majority votes on something, it should be
SQ> passed into law." What they forget is that that is
SQ> necessarily true only in cases where it doesn't trample
SQ> upon the rights of the minority.
But Ken Young claimed this exact line about gays. Gays should be
given their "equality" (pffft!) yet should be able to be lynched
should a local community vote so. I swapped "blacks" into the
statement he made and he whined, because he sounded like a racist
bigot.
Why is it that his statement is NOT bigotry in one case, yet is
bigotry in another, when it deprives each group (gays OR blacks)
of the SAME rights?
*boggle*. And he claims gays are equal and that CHRISTIANS are
MORE persecuted than gays -- see my response to that one! :)
SQ> RS> Just look at some of the Big Lies(tm) that Ken and Jim and other
SQ> RS> fundies spread about gay people.
SQ> They weren't the first, and the sad thing is that they won't be the
last.
It is sad. I am thankful that there are so many rational people
in this world of ANY sexual orientation to stand up to bigotry
and say "enough is enough".
You do realise, just as people of caucasian racial extraction
were called "nigger lovers", you will be called a "queer lover",
Steve. Feel proud of that title, because you would love every
person and their rights in your viewpoint, rather than hate them
as the bigot slinging "queer lover" as an insult would do.
SQ> You should see some of the dreck over in THUMP_IT that one
SQ> Trent Hall posts from time to time.
I'll join in, when I get back to Dallas :) :)
SQ> When asked for evidence, he suddenly decides that he's busy
SQ> and doesn't have time to discuss the issue further.
When he next provides an unevidenced claim (a popular one is that
gays "die" at age 42 if they don't suffer HIV, 39 if they do, on
average)... pop it here, and I'll give you the knock-out punch
and scientific references to debunk it :)
We can also have a good laugh over it :)
SQ> RS> Maybe Mr Savelli can come back again one day :) :) He sounds
SQ> RS> like a fun fundie to debunk :)
SQ> Savelli was one of those "I have my fingers over my eyes.
SQ> I can't see what you type, but I'll just reiterate my
SQ> bullshit" types.
So he's no different to Young, Staal, and Wiens? Or is that
"Flung, Stool, Weiner/Whiner!" :)
SQ> RS> Yes, I do know of her lyrics crusade. Thankfully she's been told
SQ> RS> to shut up while in the White House league... :)
SQ> I expect that Tipper Gore is waiting until such a time that her famous
SQ> husband becomes President of the US. She's only a bullet
SQ> away from that happening, and who knows? If the
SQ> Republicans put up Buchanan in 2000, Gore could win easily.
Buchanan would make a good President. It would end Christianity as a
major force in politics in the USA. :)
SQ> RS> they didn't know), Clinton and Gore are now taking suggestions
SQ> RS> for books that might give them some guidance on morality and
SQ> RS> tolerance.
SQ> These guys are wishy-washy assholes. Remember Clinton and
SQ> his desire to take a stand on gays in the military?
SQ> Remember how far that went?
Yes, and remember how far our votes went in stopping the Democrats
controlling the Senate, especially his screwup over signing DOMA, and
now he comes grovelling back to us for more money.
Strangely, our sell-out national gay organisations keep donating to
him and hiring the Lincoln bedroom, and having coffees with him on
*gay people's money*. I have personally lobbied about 500 people
NOT to renew their HRC membership until HRC supports marriage
rights fully.
Rod "...gays are sick of their leadership... expect a BIIIG change
as Lambda Legal Defense and Education Fund becomes the most popular
of the big three -- LLDEF/NGLTF/HRC" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Yogi Bear was a nudist buddhist
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 17 Mar 97 23:50:12
EID:d693 2271be40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d6834
* On 15-03-97 at 19:38, STEVE QUARRELLA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Driving Mr. Daisy" in echo Holysmoke:
SQ> RS> Maybe we should start passing laws to remove the special rights
SQ> RS> of Christians to be treated specially under the law when they've
SQ> RS> raped, killed, or abused a child.
SQ> I am all for prosecuting those who commit "black collar crime," using
the
SQ> First Amendment as an excuse.
BLACK COLLAR CRIME! Yes! That's the word for it! :)
SQ> Unfortunately, the trend
SQ> seems to pass more and more legislation to PROTECT these
SQ> fuckers than to keep them on their toes.
The Religious Freedom Restoration Act is going to go out the door
soon, IMHO.
SQ> I am at a complete loss as to how anybody can condone the
SQ> actions of parents who do not allow their children to have
SQ> medical treatment.
Fucking Jay-Dubbleyas.
SQ> RS> Maybe we should strip them of
SQ> RS> their rights to mislead and swindle the public.
SQ> Tax 'em. Tax their businesses just like everybody else is taxed.
Did you know that Fred Phelps, homophobic pastor from Topeka,
Kansas, got his backyard pool tax-exempt because he claims to use
it as a baptismal fount?
SQ> RS> Maybe we should remove their ability to spread their evil,
SQ> RS> filthy, degenerate, sick, CHOSEN lifestyle. (Really a
SQ> RS> deathstyle, because it is a death cult)...
SQ>
Ho ho ho!. Don't get fresh with me. Jim will get jealous!
*wink wink* :) :)
Rod "...hehehehe" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Don't believe in miracles, expect them
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 17 Mar 97 23:53:14
EID:ed89 2271bea0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d68ea
* On 14-03-97 at 12:32, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> See? Where did I say 'gooks'? A _big_ difference.
Then...
JS> Yes, I used the word 'gook', but not 'as a synonym for the languages
and
JS> peoples of Vietnam.'
You fell for the oldest bait in the book. Plant a lie, inside
the truth.
You have now admitted you used "gook". You claimed earlier that
you did NOT use that word ever.
You are a proven liar.
Join your fellow liar, Appleton, and enjoy your mutual circle jerk.
Rod "...I love you Jim, and want to help you out of your sick,
depraved, chosen deathstyle of Christianity." Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Gun Control: The ability to drop a fundie at 500 yards
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 17 Mar 97 23:56:16
EID:ed89 2271bf00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d69a0
* On 14-03-97 at 12:36, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> Don't thinks so because they do not exist because I neither think
nor
JS> JS> speak concerning homophobia.
JS> RS> I do believe you don't think -- ever.
JS> RS> I do believe you have made comments about homosexuals that are
JS> RS> homophobic. Here's a few reminders.
JS> RS> I am condemning no one. The homosexual who sexually practices
JS> RS> his homosexuality condemns himself." - Jim Staal
JS> Just truth here, no evidence of 'homophobia'.
Truth? So you claimed this is reality, truth, proven, existent?
So you are willing to provide the evidence to prove this
statement? Please cite your scientific references in reputable
scientific journals. Thank you.
JS> RS> I reiterate what Fred said about you back on January 15, 1997:
JS> RS> Bathroom Staal continues to be one of the most evil and
JS> RS> filthy participants ever to grace us with his lunacy.
JS> Yeah, and if you believe that, take a look in the mirror, or better
JS> yet, go to the Holysmoke Ring and check out the link to Fred's pic
on
JS> his web page.
Whatever you opine, idiot Jimson. Your opinion is invalidated,
because, naturally, you have no objectivity.
Of course, you can prove yourself wrong.
Please give me a yes/no answer to the following question, bearing
in mind that you claim that "by the fruits ye shall know them":
Is Pastor Fred Phelps of Topeka, Kansas, a Christian?
YES / NO
And the second question:
Why do you believe this to be the case?
[complete answer here, use as many lines as necessary
to explain your position: ->]
Thank you.
Rod "...and please, be honest!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Person+delusion=psychosis. People+delusion=religion.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 17 Mar 97 23:58:18
EID:ff08 2271bf40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332d6a1a
* On 14-03-97 at 12:41, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "jesus needed..." in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> Yes you do. You deny that it applies to you,
JS> It doesn't.
Matthew 5:17-18 suggests that all OT law applies to every
follower of Christ. You are under the OT law. You are bound by
Leviticus 20.
JS> RS> though you apply it freely to others.
JS> Where have i said that? If you have any evidence to support this claim,
JS> trot it out here and we'll take a look at it.
You have claimed homosexuality is a sin, to me, based on
Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13. Now you are pussyfooting around
claiming that it doesn't apply to you because of Jeeeezus.
Make *up* your mind, Jimson.
Rod "...for a change, don't flip-flop. It makes you look stupid,
because you *are* stupid when you flip-flop." Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Hey, Rocky, watch me pull a saviour out of this virgin!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: You *didn't* answer t 1/
|Date: 17 Mar 97 00:36:20
EID:3498 22710480
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332c2184
* On 14-03-97 at 12:43, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "You *didn't* answer this" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> No these people all are non-Christian people who are actively
JS> JS> demonstrating their hatred towards things they are not able to tolerate.
JS> RS> Evidence that they are non-Christian?
JS> Look at their deeds.
Strange. I thought the whole tenet of your faith was that a
sinner could receive salvation. So a guy goes in and murders a
few people, and does it for Jesus. Now that he's realised he's
wrong, you'd rather claim he's NOT A CHRISTIAN to PROTECT your
faith from CRITICISM, rather than provide him absolution and
repentance for his SINS.
How wonderful of you, Jimson.
Aren't you supposed to follow Christ? Didn't Christ forgive
sins, as opposed to claim that the sinner was *NO LONGER A
CHRISTIAN*?
You are a disingenuous fool, lying to protect your faith from
criticism that people who are insane join it, then listen to the
rhetoric of the right wing culties, and then enact upon the
propaganda.
JS> RS> Oh, I thought so. Jim says so, so it must be. How about that!
JS> (Mat 7:16 NIV) By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick
JS> grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?
I find it strange that you are relying on a parable that refers
to the interpretation *by Christians* of others whom are of
unknown faith, when we clearly don't have to ascertain the
Christianity of the terrorists concerned.
The scripture, in Mark 9:38-41, shows how Jesus deals with people
who claim acts in his name. It's cut and dry that any person
acting in the name of Jesus is not only a Christian, and not only
saved, but also closer to salvation because it shows they are on
a path to being unable to say anything evil about Jesus/God.
In fact, you are more like the man who would not give a drink of
water to the men killing in the name of Christ -- and hence
further away from salvation than the Christian terrorists!
MARK 9:38 John said to him, "Teacher, we saw a man
who was driving out demons in your name, and
we told him to stop, because he doesn't
belong to our group."
MARK 9:39 "Do not try to stop him," Jesus told them,
"because no one who performs a miracle in
my name will be able soon afterwards to
say evil things about me.
MARK 9:40 For whoever is not AGAINST us is FOR us.
MARK 9:41 I assure you that ANYONE who gives you
a drink of water because you belong to
me will certainly receive his reward.
You should also read Luke 9:46-48, Jimson.
And Jesus said something in Matthew 23:13. Maybe you should heed
it before you claim to be able to speak for those who will enter
heaven and those who will not.
Then there's Matthew 5:21-22. You call many people fools, Jim.
I'd be worried they are stoking the fire for you.
How sad, Jim, that you probably tell innocent people that they
are going to Hell, instead of offering them Salvation. Matthew
18:6-7 tells you how you deserve the millstone around the neck,
for putting the millstone around the necks of others.
JS> No, I get it from a higher authority. How about that!?
Something for you to consider, given your current penchance to
deprive people of their rights -- Matthew 12:25, dear Jimson.
You and your Christian colleagues who seek to pit one American
against another, be warned!
For you, though, Matthew 12:36. You will be accountable for each and
every word you have ever spoken, including the ones of hatred you
have spoken about me, and others.
You are no longer saveable. Christ will reject you. God will
reject you. It is written in Matthew 12:36-37:
You can be sure that on the Judgement Day everyone
will have to give account fo EVERY useless word he has
ever spoken. Your words will be used to judge you -- to
declare you either innocent or guilty.
And since you are a pharisee -- a liar -- you will be judged
accordingly, says your dead homo on a stick :) God will ask you
why you commanded the wish of searing coals on my lips, when
Jesus clearly stated to treat your enemies well, and do unto them
what you would have them do unto you.
In fact, maybe you will be found to be the enemy of God, from
your hate. Maybe God will sear your lips. Kiss the lake of
fire, Jimson! You're probably going to hell!
JS> RS> Didn't they practice these acts of terror in the name of their
JS> RS> belief, and under the belief that their actions were holy?
JS> No.
Your bible, in Mark 9:38-41, clearly states that the acts of any
person, in the name of Jesus, are clearly Christian.
Why do you claim they are not? Why do you deny their
Christianity for ONE sin? Why do you deny them the repentance
they may seek? Is it because you are defending your religion
from attack, as opposed to actually identifying that the
Christian domestic terrorists are *Christians* and *sinners*?
JS> RS> Paul Hill was extolled as being a PATRIOT by many pastors in
JS> RS> their PULPITS right around the US. Aren't they Christian people?
JS> No.
Each and every one of his supporters is closer to a Christian
than you will be, based on Mark 9:40.
JS> RS> Evidence to disprove the examples that I have given? Don't just
JS> RS> make a claim that they are not Christians. Please demonstrate
JS> RS> why they are not.
JS> See above scriputre quotes.
You failed to give a demonstrable reason. Please state why each
is SPECIFICALLY invalidated as a Christian.
Why does ONE sin invalidate their Christianity? Why do you offer
them no ability to repent?
Why are you JUDGING them?
Then the scriptural reference that gives you the authority to
speak for your God, especially in the light of Matthew 9:38-41.
>>> Continued to next message
* OLX 2.1 TD * "Bones! That, feels, wonderful, yes!" "It's head, Jim!"
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: You *didn't* answer t 2/
|Date: 17 Mar 97 00:36:22
EID:c498 22710480
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332c2186
>>> Continued from previous message
JS> JS> It doesn't exist, therefore I am doing nothing. I do hope, however,
JS> JS> that the perpetrators of all of the above are caught and punished
JS> JS> severely.
JS> RS> So the acts didn't happen now?
JS> Yes they did.
So you do admit that Christians have been practicing domestic
terrorism? How flip-flop of you!
JS> RS> You are the one that claims they
JS> RS> are not Christians, or are false Christians.
JS> Correct.
JS> RS> What are you doing
JS> RS> to deny their Christianity publicly?
JS> This is a public echo. See above scriputre quotes.
What are you doing to help the Christian domestic terrorists
realise they are sinners, as opposed to denying their
Christianity?
Why do you judge them and strip them of Christendom, rather than
forgive their sins? When did God die and you assume his
judgement rite?
JS> RS> Where is your condemnation
JS> RS> of anyone who claims to be a Christian practicing such acts?
JS> Right here on the echo.. In this messages and in severall past posts
on
JS> the subject.
Yeah, right. You don't condemn their sins and acknowledge their
Christianity and the error of their ways in claiming to do their
terror in the name of Jesus -- you just deny their religious
conviction.
And you have no biblical authority to deny someone their
Christianity. :)
JS> RS> Further, where is your public education to stop these events
JS> RS> happening again by telling all that Christians should not be
JS> RS> terrorists?
JS> I do not participate in public education (other than my unfair taxes
to
JS> support it) My kids went as I to a private Christian school.
Public education does not equal public *schools*. Public
education is educating the public -- this can be by any method
you like. Television commercials would be nice. A community
anti-violence project, perhaps?
JS> RS> Your Christian brothers expouse that these men are "Christian
JS> RS> Heroes".
JS> Evidence? None of my Christian brothers have done so.
I love your denialism, Jim. If we really get you going, we might
get you to deny *EVERY* OTHER PERSON in the US from being a
Christian.
Maybe you should just cut our time and list the *true*
Christians, by name, right here.
You obviously claim to have the power to determine and discern
which are *false* Christians, so hence, please provide a list of
about, say, 100 "true" Christians -- and why they are "true"
Christians.
JS> RS> What are you doing to debunk and expose these preachers
JS> RS> as being hateful?
JS> Hey, all you false christian scum out there that think gay bashing,
JS> abortion bombing and other violent acts are cool: YOU'RE ALL F**KED!!!
JS> Happy now?
Why did you include the words false, and scum, above? Why not
"Hey all you Christians out there that think gay bashing..."
Why can't you acknowledge that they are Christians who have
sinned? Why do you deny them repentance? Why do you strip them
of their faith, rather than of their sins (should they repent)?
JS> RS> Rod "...you are doing *fuck all* to solve the problem, Jim.
JS> RS> You'd rather sit on your hands and say nothing, rather than
JS> RS> expose Pharisees. You are a joke for doing so." Swift
JS> I guess you are now exposed as a shameful liar, right?
Sorry. It has come to my attention that you are the Pharisee :)
JS> Like I said, you don't know me at all and yet you like to attack
JS> and malign me for reasons that are just not true.
What goes around, comes around, dear boy. Your bible says "do
unto your enemies as you would have them do unto you".
You led by example. I am only returning the false witnessing to
you as you expected.
JS> ... Abstain from all appearence of evil. (1 The 5:22)
Then leave the echo.
Rod "...denier of Christians, you are a Pharisee!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * "Bones! That, feels, wonderful, yes!" "It's head, Jim!"
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Book Theft
|Date: 17 Mar 97 00:44:24
EID:131c 22710580
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332c2368
* On 14-03-97 at 12:52, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Book Theft" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> The government automatically excludes any person from
JS> RS> choosing a spouse from half the population. You, I, all
JS> RS> of us are denied the opportunity and *freedom* to choose
JS> RS> to marry someone from the approx. 50% of the population
JS> RS> who may just happen to be of the same gender.
JS> RS> There are many more ERA states :) California will probably be
JS> RS> the second state challenged if Hawaii fails.
JS> It has and so will CA.
New York became the second state to have a same-gender marriage
case lodged on appeal. Philip and Toshav Storrs appealed this
week to a 1995 court ruling. In that court ruling, it was found
that banning same-gender marriage was discrimination, and denying
of rights.
JS> BTW, are gay marriages recognized in your country?
Same-sex unions are recognised by the Federal government as
equivalent to heterosexual unions.
JS> What are you doing about it?
Nothing. We have equal rights. I bet it makes you choke to
think that there are nations with greater and better models of
human rights than you.
Here's a few:
Australia, New Zealand, Switzerland, Norway, Sweden,
Iceland, Germany, Denmark, The Netherlands and Greenland,
South Africa (yes! :), Belgium, Canada!
I hope you do choke. :) :)
Did you know the only nation in the past 2 years to revoke
apartheid laws has been South Africa. In that nation, under
their new constitution, all citizens *are* equal. Not *to be
treated*, but are. The law assumes it. Sexual orientation is
constitutionally protected as being unable to be discriminated
against by the New South Africa. Their constitition was
formulated 2 years ago, and ratified in the past 6 months.
The only nation to pass laws to INITIATE apartheid in the past
2 years has been the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. The Defense of
Marriage Act seeks to identify a group of people and deny them
equal rights under the law. Colorado's Amendment 2 was also
"apartheid".
Rod "...something to consider, no, Jim?" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Black hole: where God divided by zero during creation
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: You *didn't* answer this
|Date: 17 Mar 97 00:50:26
EID:093a 22710640
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332c24d2
* On 14-03-97 at 12:54, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "You *didn't* answer this" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> I have seen no evidence of Christian terrorism. A True Christian
[tm]
JS> JS> would not do such things.
JS> RS> But they claim to be Christians?
JS> So? You claim that I am a mysoginist homophobe.
I never claimed this. Please provide the post where I use the
word mysoginist to describe you.
JS> RS> What are you doing to expose
JS> RS> these claimants to Christianity prior to their abuses? What are
JS> RS> you doing inside the Christian faith to remove and debunk such
JS> RS> critters?
JS> Nothing. I don't know anyone like that.
That's right, because you deny their Christianity, and deny their
existence, and hence deny any responsibility to educate anyone
that it's wrong to commit hate in the name of Jesus.
JS> RS> The claim stands. You have failed to prove that they are NOT
JS> RS> Christians.
JS> The evidence is clear that they are not:
The evidence is clear that they are. They are Christians,
Jimson. They are Christians who have sinned. Murder is a sin.
Accept the fact they are sinners. Don't deny their existence.
JS> RS> Pastors around the country claim he's a hero and a
JS> RS> true believer and that his actions were biblical.
JS> Evidence? I know none such.
I provided the article. BTW, it was referring to Paul Hill. You
snipped it. Why?
JS> RS> What do you say to that? What are you doing to expose these
JS> RS> people?
JS> Nothing. I know of none.
You don't need to KNOW of them to expose their terror as a bad
thing, Jim. What are you doing to expose Christian terrorists.
JS> RS> He was a church-goer. He believes that Jesus Christ died for his
JS> RS> sins, and to save him. He professes that he's a follower of
JS> RS> Christ. Your bible claims that such a person is a Christian.
You failed to answer this. Your bible clearly states that a
Christian is one who has accepted Jesus. That's it. Read your
bible.
The bible, however, gives you no authority to INVALIDATE any
person who claims to be a Christian. You can debunk them,
condemn them, but not deny them!
JS> JS> Evidence that this was anything but an act against a particular
JS> JS> individual? Or perhaps (as is being suggested) an act against the
JS> JS> police?
JS> RS> It was an act against patrons of a gay nightclub, Jimson. You
JS> RS> know that. You claim to follow the news. The second bomb that
JS> RS> was found was aimed to attack rescue workers.
JS> The comments of the jpolice dude I saw on CNN suggested it might be
an
JS> attack against the police.
Police are rescue workers, are they not? Though, with your
propensity to lie, I doubt even the validity of this claim. I
have AP stories of my own, thanks :)
JS> RS> What cowardly Christians, to not only attempt to exact justice
JS> RS> (in the name of Jesus) against sinners, but against the innocent
JS> RS> rescue workers.
JS> No Christians at all.
You have no authority to deny their Christianity. You have a
responsibility to help chide your sinning bretheren.
JS> RS> All the perpetrators are Christians. They were Christians prior
JS> RS> to the acts (they claimed that they loved Jesus with all their
JS> RS> heart and that Jesus died for their sins -- your bible says
JS> RS> that's what a Christian is), they were Christians during the
JS> RS> acts, and Christians after the acts.
JS> No, their deeds betray them as being from the other camp.
JS> (Mat 7:21 NIV) "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter
JS> the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who
is
JS> in heaven.
The will of your father in heaven is to kill fags. The gay
nightclub bomber was obviously carrying out his commandments! :)
JS> RS> Rod "...so keep whining and keep trying to claim that they're
JS> RS> *false* Christians, but be warned that you are claiming the
JS> RS> powers of your God to do that, because only your God knows who
JS> RS> the Christians *really* are" Swift :)
Keep whining, Jim. I've debunked you, pharisee. Go chide your
brothers in terror!
Rod "...because you are guilty if you fail to advise them of
their sins!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Rotisserie: A ferris wheel for chickens
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 18 Mar 97 18:46:28
EID:3b03 227295c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e7284
* On 14-03-97 at 13:03, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> You cannot, as you are trying, use the bible to prove God,
JS> I don't use the Bible 'to prove God'. Only God can do that by giving
JS> the individual faith.
So you admit that God is unprovable? Now why do you suspect a
supposedly omniscient and omnipresent being -- being EVERYWHERE
-- is so non-existent?
JS> JS> What people do behind closed doors is, in my opinion, their biz.
But
JS> JS> to take what is declared wrong and say openly that
JS> JS> it is right, I can't agree with.
JS> JS> RS> And in what place does God belong in a secular state's laws?
JS> JS> This is not relevant. We were discussing my opinion.
JS> RS> No we weren't.
JS> Oh yes, we were. see above quote (take particular note of 'in my
JS> opinion')
Prior to your reply, I asked you whether your God's laws belonged
in the laws of the secular state. I ask again. Do you think
that your God's laws belong in the laws of a secular state?
JS> RS> JS> What people do behind closed doors is, in my opinion,
JS> RS> You clearly stated that homosexuals having sex is none of your
JS> RS> business, but you claimed that removing laws against them would
JS> RS> be saying openly that homosexuality is OK, and hence you
JS> RS> disagreed with removing the laws.
JS> No, I said 'to take what is declared wrong and say openly that
JS> it is right, I can't agree with.' That is the difference between
JS> 'decriminalizing' something and 'legalizing' it.
There is no difference between decriminalisation and
legalisation, except that decriminalisation is the removal of any
criminal penalty while the law still exists against a prohibited
act, while legalisation involves the complete rescission of any
law against a prohibited act.
You are confusing legalisation and *promotion*. They are not the
same, Jimson.
JS> RS> I cannot believe you are this disingenuous, Jimson. Once again,
JS> RS> your lies come back to haunt you.
JS> What lies?
Your ignorance now comes back to haunt you. I note you snipped
all the lies.
JS> RS> What right do you
JS> RS> claim to wish to keep and enforce sodomy laws?
JS> Never said I did. In fact I said the opposite. 'What people do behind
JS> closed doors is, in my opinion, their biz.'
No, you were talking about what people do behind closed doors,
not sodomy laws.
JS> RS> I wonder... If I asked some other Christians if Jim
JS> RS> was a real Christian with his hateful views, I wonder if they'd
JS> RS> deny him being a *real* Christian?
JS> Evidence of these 'hateful views'?
JS> No, these things all happened because you shouted it out that you were
JS> gay. If you had kept it to yourself, these things would not have
JS> happened to you, now would they. - Jim Staal
There you go. Your hate in all it's splendour. If you were to
suggest that Jews deserved to get what they got because they
spoke out in Nazi Germany, you'd be accused of being
anti-Semitic. If you were to suggest that black people deserve
to be bashed because they speak out against discrimination, you'd
be a hateful racist.
What makes this comment above different, in your view, is that
it's ok to blame gays for the bashings they receive, rather than
rightfully placing the blame on the people who inflict the
violence.
Rod "...how often do you blame the victims, Jim?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Dance is thought mad by those who can't hear the music
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: You Lose
|Date: 18 Mar 97 18:50:30
EID:8496 22729640
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e7376
* On 14-03-97 at 13:10, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "You Lose" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> It is nice to know that you now admit that you did misquote the
JS> RS> guy and claim that ALL (and I'll use your 3000-4000 figure) of
JS> RS> them were "healthy foetuses in healthy mothers"...
JS> I didn't misquote.
Yes, you did. I have quoted the AP story. It clearly states
"occasionally".
JS> RS> It's nice to know you now admit I was right in correcting you and
JS> RS> stating that Mr Fitzsimmons claimed that only the *number* that
JS> RS> he had testified about was wrong, but the situations under which
JS> RS> each of these 3000-4000 (if we use your claimed figure) was
JS> RS> undeniably unviable foetuses or life-threatening to the mother.
JS> He said 'healty fetuses and healthy mothers'.
He also said "occasionally" immediately before it. Are you
practicing the lies of ommission that Laurie Appleton does, eh?
JS> JH> JS> Folks gotta right to do to themselves what they want as long
as it
JS> JH> JS> affects me in no way whatsoever...
JS> JH> Remember this folks.....
JS> RS> ------------------------------------------------------------------
JS> RS> So, in the issue of abortion, do you think that (and I've put the
JS> RS> explanations in brackets):
JS> RS> "Folks (women) gotta right (have a right) to do to
JS> RS> themselves what they want (to choose abort a foetus)
JS> RS> as long as it affects me in no way whatsoever (as
JS> RS> long as it does not affect Jim Staal whatsoever)".
JS> RS> That is, do you think that:
JS> RS> "Women have a right to choose to abort a foetus as
JS> RS> long as it does not affect Jim Staal whatsoever"?
JS> RS> Please, do answer honestly if you support a woman's right to
JS> RS> choose, especially given your broad statement of 6 months ago
JS> RS> that you support individual freedoms and liberties.
JS> Absolutely not! It affects me, as God will judge the nation of the
JS> un-godly.
I find your position to be duplicitous, especially considering
you now claim that God will judge "the nation" for ungodliness.
You claim that legalising/allowing abortion will mean damnation
for all. Why do you NOT claim legalising/allowing sodomy will do
the same...?
Remember you're against laws outlawing sodomy... So why are you
so fearful god will judge the whole nation if you legalise
abortion, but NOT judge the nation because you've legalised
sodomy?
Rod "...huh, Jim?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Christians wanted, apply at Perth Zoo's lion cage
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Staal stinks a little lo
|Date: 18 Mar 97 18:52:32
EID:b5dd 22729680
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e73f0
* On 14-03-97 at 13:12, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Staal stinks a little lo" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> DC> RS> FLORIDA -- State court removed child from lesbian
JS> DC> RS> mother and gave custody to father. Father
JS> DC> RS> is a convicted wife-beater and murderer.
JS> DC> JS> Would that seem to say that a wife-beater and murderer is a
better
JS> DC> JS> role model than a lesbian???
JS> DC> Just when I thought you couldn't sink lower than the bottom
JS> DC> of the cesspool, you dig yourself a deeper hole.
JS> DC> You are one big piece of shit, Staal.
You never answered this, Jimson... Why? Is it true?
JS> RS> The fact that he didn't answer some of the more horrendous
JS> RS> Christian acts of terrorism against the rights of gay people was
JS> RS> even more appealing than this case of bigoted intolerance.
JS> RS> I asked him plainly that if he had a choice of two day care
JS> RS> centre employees -- one a gentle, loving and kind lesbian and
JS> RS> one a male convicted wife beater, child beater and murderer --
which
JS> RS> would he choose to look after his kid.
JS> RS> I'm still waiting for his hypocritical response.
JS> What'd you do? Misaddress this post? My answer is: I wouldn't have
JS> either one.
No. Read the question. It is not a valid answer to the question
asked.
RS> I asked him plainly that if he had a choice of two day care
RS> centre employees -- one a gentle, loving and kind lesbian and
RS> one a male convicted wife beater, child beater and murderer -- which
RS> would he choose to look after his kid.
You only have a choice of answering murderer or lesbian.
Please note that the Hawaiian Supreme Court has found that sexual
orientation has no bearing or relationship to the fitness of any
parent to raise a child whatsoever.
Many courts have found that violent criminals are threats to
society.
Rod "...your answer, please!" Swift ;)
* OLX 2.1 TD * God is a Vorlon
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 18 Mar 97 18:56:34
EID:c45c 22729700
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e74e2
* On 14-03-97 at 13:14, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Oops, Caught Again" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> KW> I've even thought of becoming self-employed doing this kind
JS> KW> of work. My eye doctor said the man who services his
JS> KW> wifes computer has more than full time work doing just
JS> KW> that. But beg? No way. Not as long as I have any ability
JS> KW> to make money on my own. I find that an undecidedly
JS> KW> unchristian thing to do.
JS> KW> cc: Jim Staal
JS> RS> Did you know Jim Staal begs for money on this echo?
JS> You silly savage. Ken's remarks _were_ in response to Judith's comments
JS> to me on exactly that post you are talking about. where _do_
you
JS> keep your head?
Ah, so you do admit to snipping lines out before quotations, as
to skew their meaning?
Anyway, it's clear that Ken is condemning your open and unabashed
echo begging. How degrading of Christians that one must suckle
off the lifeblood of hardworking others.
Don't you get enough in their taxes supporting your lifestyle? :)
JS> RS> Is Jim Staal false Christian scum(tm)?
JS> No.
Why not? You're so quick to point out any other person who
doesn't happen to advance your faith to not be a Christian :)
JS> RS> BTW, are the people who bomb abortion clinics and gay
JS> RS> nightclubs for their Christianity, in your view,
JS> RS> domestic Christian terrorists?
JS> No.
Why not? When an islamic person blows up a plane in a terrorist
attack, we call them Islamic. Can't the muslims just claim: "Oh,
he's false Koranic scum?"
No... You'd call the muslim a islamic terrorist. Wouldn't you, Jim?
JS> RS> What are you doing to stop these terrorists?
JS> Nothing. It is the job of the police in Atlanta. When they happen in
GR
JS> (they won't) I'll be the first to bitch.
You don't read your newspaper. Didn't you see the Christanic
terrorist in Detroit, Michigan (literally your own back yard!)
add three more to the death toll of innocent people killed in the
name of your God in the United States?
Rod "...how typical, Jimson. Put your hands over your eyes, ear
plugs in ears, and scream 'IS NOT!!!!!!!!!!'" Swift
* OLX 2.1 TD * The *Constitution* is the Contract with America!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Bathroom Staal knows wha
|Date: 18 Mar 97 19:04:36
EID:bc3a 22729880
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e76c4
* On 14-03-97 at 13:47, JIM STAAL wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Bathroom Staal knows wha" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> On (11 Mar 97) Rod Swift wrote to Fredric Rice...
JS> FR> No, these things all happened because you shouted it out that you
were
JS> FR> gay. If you had kept it to yourself, these things would not have
JS> FR> happened to you, now would they. - Jim Staal
JS> FR> How about that one, huh? Think your gods are going to
JS> FR> applaud that bit of hate rhetoric, dear?
JS> RS> Of course they will. Let's apply it to another area.
JS> RS> These things happened because you shouted out that you
JS> RS> were black. If you had kept your negroidism to yourself,
JS> RS> these things would not have happened to you now, would
JS> RS> they?
JS> RS> -- Idiot Jimson logic, as applied racially.
JS> This argument is an insult to blacks everywhere.
So it's horrendous to apply your words in a racial parallel (in
my example) to black people if one was to suggest that the
bashings and beatings blacks get is because they are vocal in
their demands for equality...
... but it's ok to blame the victim if the victims are gays,
because gays deserve it, because gays are vocal in their demands
for equality.
I put it to you, Jim, that if you find the argument I *cited* as
an application of your logic to be an "insult to blacks
everywhere", then the same principles as applied in your original
quotatin are an "insult to gay people everywhere".
Do you admit the hatefulness and insulting nature of your
quotation, Jim, or will you still deny it even if it has been
paralleled to another situation and shows clear hatred and insult?
JS> RS> Of course, the above shows that Jimson advocates hate and
JS> RS> violence against those who refuse to remain silent
JS> Evidence for this slanderous claim?
"No, these things all happened because you shouted it out that you were
gay. If you had kept it to yourself, these things would not have
happened to you, now would they." - Jim Staal
Your line states, clearly, that if gays are vocal, the bashings
they receive from intolerant morons are justified.
You are sick, Jim, and need help.
Rod "...you don't even realise it, which makes it worse" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Live sex in a Toyota nixes evil
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: Re: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 18 Mar 97 19:08:38
EID:f974 22729900
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e77b6
* On 14-03-97 at 10:03, KEN WIENS wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Re: Driving Mr. Daisy" in echo Holysmoke:
KW> JH>That's advertising a political philosophy. And what do you
KW> JH>mean by "pro gay agenda"? Wanting to be treated like normal
KW> JH>people? Not telling gays that they're perverts and doomed for
KW> JH>all eternity?
KW> KW>Wanting to be treated like normal people would be part of
KW> RS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>------------------
KW> KW>it. Not telling gays that they're perverts and doomed for
KW> KW>eternity would not be part of it. The Bible says those who
KW> KW>practice homosexual acts as a lifestyle are doomed for
KW> KW>eternity. But it also says those who practice heterosexual
KW> KW>sex outside of marriage as a lifestyle are also. Hey, the
KW> KW>fundy God is an "equal opportunity God."
KW> RS>So you, Ken, assume gays aren't "normal" i.e. well-adjusted?
KW> RS>Or were you being statistic in your outlook?
KW> All I am saying is those who practice homosexual sex
KW> as a lifestyle will be separated eternally from God
KW> unless they repent and live as the Lord states
KW> everyone should live in the Bible.
This answer has no relevance to the question asked -- whether you
were using the word "normal" to refer to emotional or
psychological well-adjustment, or whether you were referring to
gay people in a statistical sense.
KW> I have no idea what you mean by the strange phrase
KW> "statistic in your outlook."
So, were you commenting on gays statistically in your outlook, or
morally in your outlook? Further, do you have any evidence to
back up your *claims*?
Rod "...I guess not, in advance!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Homophobia: the fear obvious to all but the homophobe!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 18 Mar 97 19:15:40
EID:6002 227299e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e795c
* On 14-03-97 at 10:08, KEN WIENS wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Oops, Caught Again" in echo Holysmoke:
KW> KW>I've even thought of becoming self-employed doing this kind
KW> KW>of work. My eye doctor said the man who services his
KW> KW>wifes computer has more than full time work doing just
KW> KW>that. But beg? No way. Not as long as I have any ability
KW> KW>to make money on my own. I find that an undecidedly
KW> KW>unchristian thing to do.
KW> KW>cc: Jim Staal
KW> RS>Did you know Jim Staal begs for money on this echo?
KW> I've heard he has done this here. But he has given
KW> me a different version.
Really? What version has he given you?
KW> I haven't seen any of his
KW> messages where he begs for money so I'm in no
KW> position to judge his actions.
I'm sure Fredric Rice can give you a few of them.
KW> RS>Is Jim Staal false Christian scum(tm)?
KW> I seriously doubt it.
Why? Please state the criteria under which you have judged him.
KW> RS>BTW, are the people who bomb abortion clinics and gay
KW> RS>nightclubs for their Christianity, in your view,
KW> RS>domestic Christian terrorists? What are you doing to stop
KW> RS>these terrorists?
KW> In my view I seriously doubt they are true christians
KW> at all.
Their truth as Christians are God's determination, not yours.
Don't you admit that your religion is producing nutcases who are
killing innocent Americans for your deity?
KW> What am I going to do about these terrorists?
The mission your religion claims you to -- educate, rebuke,
imbibe with the truth. Speak out and condemn such acts. Remind
*others* that such acts are not only illegal, but immoral.
If the Christian community started speaking about the immorality
within their own faith's acts, rather than the immorality of
secular US groups, there would be much less of this terrorism.
KW> The same thing I do with all terrorists: work within
KW> the parameters of the law to see justice is done.
So you don't believe preventative measures and educating your
bretheren is important? How many more lives will it take until
someone seriously considers sermoning about independent
Christians taking justice out of the hands of the law, and into
their own?
KW> What are you going to do about them?
Speak out. Expose the hate. Condemn the hate. Educate others
as to why it is wrong.
KW> Hopefully the same?
Since you have indicated that you will not take a stand on the
issue at all, and instead sit on your hands, we certainly will
not be doing the same things. I condemn you for not exposing the
hate among your brothers, Ken.
KW> Are you inclined toward taking the law in your
KW> own hand and practicing vigilante justice?
No. Why do you suppose I am asking for that?
KW> Are you trying to bait me into saying I'd do such a thing?
I'm attempting to ask you if you're a decent Christian, who is
willing to stand up and say proudly that you'd condemn terrorism
committed in the name of your deity -- instead of denying the
terrorist's Christianity, and hence denying the educational
opportunity to teach how similar actions among similar
to-be-announced-non-Christians committing acts on behalf of your
God.
KW> If you are you are totally wasting your time.
How presumptive of you.
Rod "...at least Jim is transparent in his presumptiveness" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Borg Express -- don't be assimilated without it!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 18 Mar 97 19:23:42
EID:151d 22729ae0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e7b3e
* On 14-03-97 at 10:35, KEN WIENS wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "jesus needed..." in echo Holysmoke:
KW> RS> Oh, so who was the disciple he loved?
KW> JS>His name was John. You have something against love?
KW> RS>Why was this disciple mentioned as the one "Jesus loved" in
KW> RS>particular, given Jesus supposedly loves us all? Why the
KW> RS>exemplification of this particular disciple?
KW> Good questions.
Yes, they are. :)
KW> RS>And what does it say in the ORIGINAL language? Does it describe
KW> RS>a particularly catamitic relationship perchance? :) :)
KW> The term used in the original language is "agape," the
KW> self-sacrificial love of God. Were there any kind of
KW> sexual relationship the term "eros" in one of its
KW> forms would have been used.
Got any citations for this? I thought it was arsenkoitai, not agape.
KW> RS>Is this more of your biblical-denialism, like that of Leviticu
KW> JS>I don't deny the existance of Lev 20.
KW> RS>Yes you do. You deny that it applies to you,
KW> And he is correct to deny Lev. 20 applies to him. Verse
KW> 1ff. of Leviticus 20 reads as follows:
KW> "Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, "You shall say to
KW> the sons of Israel..."
So you admit it's a Law of Moses, and hence applicable to all
Christians as commanded by Matt 5:17-18:
"Do not think I have come to do away with the Law of Moses
and the teaching of the Prophets. I have not come to do
away with them, but to make their teachings come true.
Remember that as long as heaven and earth last, not the
least point nor the smallest detail of the Law will be
done away with -- not until the end of all things."
Further, if you don't carry out the Mosaic Laws, or the teachings
of the Prophets (OT), Jesus carries a stern warning in Matt 5:19:
"So then, whoever DISOBEYS even the LEAST IMPORTANT
of the commandments and TEACHES OTHERS TO DO THE SAME,
will be LEAST in the Kingdom of heaven. On the other
hand, whoever obeys the Law and teaches others to do
the same, will be great in the Kingdom of heaven."
Maybe you should consider rebuking Jim, and telling him how his
errors will have him judged least in the Kingdom of heaven!
Rod "...because I care for both of your salvations!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Live sex in a Toyota nixes evil
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: You *didn't* answer this
|Date: 18 Mar 97 19:51:44
EID:ae46 22729e60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e81d0
* On 14-03-97 at 10:49, KEN WIENS wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "You *didn't* answer this" in echo Holysmoke:
KW> RS>It was a sarcastic response to your claim that Christian domes
KW> RS>terrorism does NOT exist in the US, despite such cases as the
KW> RS>Brookline abortion clinic massacre, the reign of terror of Pau
KW> RS>Hill, the abortion clinic bombing in Atlanta, the bombing of t
KW> RS>Atlanta lesbian nightclub, the arson attack against gay and
KW> RS>lesbian establishments in Oklahoma and Arizona, etc, etc, etc.
KW> RS>No, these people all are non-Christian people who are actively
KW> RS>professing love for their fellow humans because they have
KW> RS>tolerance, rather than being domestic Christian terrorists.
KW> JS>No these people all are non-Christian people who are actively
KW> JS>demonstrating their hatred towards things they are not able to tole
KW> RS>Evidence that they are non-Christian?
KW> Determining whether they are or are not Christian is very simple.
Yes. Your God will do it.
KW> If you want evidence they are or are not christians just
KW> read the NT description of true christians. Then you will
KW> have your answer.
Yes, the answer is that they are true Christians, carrying out
the laws of their God, as they have interpreted.
Of course, Proverbs 29:10 and 29:27 explains your failure to act
in these terrorisms -- and Christians in general.
Maybe those Christian terrorists are reading Proverbs 16 before
these acts are committed, or maybe Proverbs 11:30:
A righteous man gives life, but a wise man takes it away.
I end on urging you to follow Proverbs 10:10:
Someone who holds back the truth causes more trouble, but
one who openly criticises works for peace.
Rod "...I hope I have given you something to think about" Swift
* OLX 2.1 TD * Easter is cancelled this year. They've found the body.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 18 Mar 97 19:52:46
EID:20b0 22729e80
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e820e
* On 12-03-97 at 02:51, RICHARD SMITH wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Cheese Whiz" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> js> The head of a newborn is about 3-4 inches at max.
RS> RichS> Small heads apparently run in Jimson's family.
RS> RodS> I hear he likes a little head :) :)
RS> His equipment allows no other.
One word: "concave".
RS> RodS> Rod "...and I'm just the man to give it to him. But I
RS> RodS> *never* inhaled!" Swift :)
RS> LOL . . .
That was stolen egregiously from Night Stand with Dick Dietrick. :)
Rod "..ho ho ho" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * "Bones! That, feels, wonderful, yes!" "It's head, Jim!"
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Nazi Stuff
|Date: 18 Mar 97 19:53:48
EID:e8b9 22729ea0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e824c
* On 16-03-97 at 11:33, STEVE QUARRELLA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Nazi Stuff" in echo Holysmoke:
SQ> SQ>> I've got a piece of the Berlin Wall around here somewhere.
SQ> SQ>> One of my students gave it to me because she thought I was
SQ> SQ>> great. :)
SQ> RS> Students? Where you teach?
SQ> Oh, I was paroled six years ago. I taught elementary and intermediate
SQ> Spanish at the University of Michigan.
Buenos ding-dong-diddly dias, Senor.
-- Jose Flanders, The Simpsons.
SQ> I decided that sitting in an office fighting political battles
SQ> all my life was not what I wanted to do, so I stopped just short
SQ> of my MA. These days, I make double what I would have been
SQ> making had I finished the degree and gone into my "chosen
SQ> profession."
Really? Got any jobs going? :) :)
SQ> BTW, this is the same school that produced Jesse Jones. :)
Oh, another good reason to leave, I see! :)
Rod "...ho ho ho!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * A man without religion is like a fish without a bicycle
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: In the news
|Date: 18 Mar 97 19:56:50
EID:b339 22729f00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e8302
* On 16-03-97 at 11:35, STEVE QUARRELLA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "In the news" in echo Holysmoke:
SQ> SQ>> Who was the kook that was active in Oregon many years ago?
SQ> SQ>> Bloom County made some major fun of his ass. That wasn't
SQ> SQ>> this Rajneesh character, was it? Marilyn? Styx?
SQ> RS> That was Baghwan Sri Rajneesh.
SQ>
Oh, it rang a bell, did it? Fat orange-clad cult bastard with a
fleet of Rolls Royce cars? :) :)
SQ> RS> Let you nuts have them :)
SQ> Gee, thanks. Don't get your undies in a bunch when we
SQ> invade Australia to liberate the kangaroos.
Liberate? Why not invade Australia and *educate*. We have two
prime candidates in Applehead and Goober-Snot.
SQ> RS> Yes. We call it "Domestic Christian Terrorism". Jimson calls
it
SQ> RS> "Evidence?" or "You are in Error!" :)
SQ> FWIW, "error" is the term that replaced "heresy" in the
SQ> mainstream lingo of the Roman Catholic Church. :)
Really. Now, I wonder why!? :)
Rod "...didn't happen to have anything to do with all those
Science v Catholic Doctrine debates of the past 600 years?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Accept Jesus as my Saviour? Why, that'd be selfish!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Ask And Ye Shall Receive
|Date: 18 Mar 97 20:07:52
EID:f259 2272a0e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e8598
* On 16-03-97 at 11:51, STEVE QUARRELLA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ask And Ye Shall Receive" in echo Holysmoke:
SQ> Salue, Rod!
SQ> Martis dies March 11 1997, Dixit Rod Swift ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ> SQ>> I'm a little more creative than that. "We'd like to put
SQ> SQ>> some nipple clamps on the two of you and burn you with
SQ> SQ>> cigarettes and hot coffee." :)
SQ> RS> I thought that was one of the major activities of the cult of
SQ> RS> repression called Mormonism :) :) :)
SQ> Man, if I could get ONE of them to admit interest, I'd be spending
SQ> some money on a horsewhip.
Why spend, when you can lease? :)
SQ> "I don't care if you can pop out an eye or
SQ> a testicle with this thing...we need it for the visiting
SQ> missionary this Friday night."
ho ho ho!
SQ> "It's payback time, Elder."
Dah-dah-duh-dah...
SQ> SQ> RS>> :) :) :) Did you ever have to keep a wank diary, Steve?
:)
SQ> RS> Yes, wank diary. Apparently when the Mormons were going through
SQ> RS> a stage of extreme prudery in the 70s, the elders proposed ways
SQ> RS> to stop Mormons tossing :)
SQ> Aha, I see. No, I did not, because a) I was never a member of the
SQ> LDS church (my wife was), and b) I was a member of a religious
SQ> organization that had better things to do than tell people
SQ> that they couldn't jerk off. They were too busy working in
SQ> the soup kitchens to waste their time with that bullshit.
My error in making the assumption that you escaped from the same
cult as your wife. :) :)
SQ> In any event, there IS some kind of strange preoccupation
SQ> on the part of the Mormons regarding masturbation. I know
SQ> that someone has posted stuff here about how they suggest
SQ> one avoid it, and my brother-in-law's missionary books had
SQ> it all over the place. What, do they think you're going to
SQ> waste it and not be able to produce that six or seven kids
SQ> that the church requires?
I think I have the post I made about the mormon wank diary around
here somewhere...
Ah, yes, I've found it. Look for thread "How to Stop Tugging" :)
Rod "...it follows this post :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Famous graffitti: I used to be indecisive; am I sure?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: All
|Sub: How to Stop Tugging! 1/
|Date: 18 Mar 97 20:11:54
EID:d6c2 2272a160
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e868a
The famous Mormon edict on Masturbation...
On 12 July 1993, I posted this message to both alt.sex.mormons
and Region 55 Controv... The comments of mine are in brackets.
This is the legendary Mormon edict on how to "get a sandwich" if
one gets the urge to toss, or tie up your children a la bondage,
or to keep a wank diary.
Enjoy!!! And remember, if you say "masturbation" as Dr Jocelyn
Elders does, you will laugh!
Rod "...see, Steve, the Mormons are fools!" Swift :)
___-------------------------------------------------------------------
** This thread has moved from alt.sex.mormons to R55_Controv **
** Quoting rod@ucc.gu.uwa.edu.au to Rod Swift [08-07-93 04:44] **
** on the topic of "Mormons *sigh*" **
[Rod's comments are in BRACKETS like these, throughout the
message. Thank you all! This message was posted because
some people requested it for a good laugh, and a snicker at
a really warped religion!]
___-------------------------------------------------------------------
CROSSPOSTED FROM: alt.sex.mormons
A friend a mine who had been a Mormon missionary came across
this guide," circa 1970, on tattered photocopy. In fact, the
pages were stuck together.
Anyway, we were so amused by it (esp. "Suggestion 19"), I
thought it deserved a wider audience.
___------cut here---------
STEPS IN OVERCOMING MASTURBATION
by Mark E. Petersen
Council of the 12 Apostles
Be assured that you can be cured of your difficulty. Many
have been, both male and female, and you can be also if you
determine that it must be so.
This determination is the first step. That is where we
begin. You must decide that you will end this practice, and
when you make that decision, the problem will be greatly
reduced at once.
But it must be more than a hope or a whish, more than
knowing that it is good for you. It must be actually a
DECISION. If you truly make up your mind that you will be
cured, then you will have the strength to resist any
tendencies which you may have and any temptations which may
come to you.
After you have made this decision, then observe the
following specific guidelines:
A Guide to Self-Control:
1. Never touch the intimate parts of your body except
during normal toilet processes.
[Damn! No more fun except in the toilet! - RS]
2. Avoid being alone as much as possible. Find good
company and stay in this good company.
[So mormons are into mutual masturbation? - RS]
3. If you are associated with other persons having this
same problem, YOU MUST BREAK OFF THEIR FRIENDSHIP. Never
associate with other people having the same weakness. Don't
suppose that two of you will quit together, you never will.
You must get away from people of that kind. Just to be in
their presence will keep your problem foremost in your mind.
The problem must be taken OUT OF YOUR MIND for that is where
it really exists. Your mind must be on other and more
wholesome things.
[Wow. You can't even have friends and enjoy quitting
together! - RS]
4. When you bathe, do not admire yourself in a mirror.
Never stay in the bath more than five or six minutes -- just
long enough to bathe and dry and dress AND THEN GET OUT OF
THE BATHROOM into a room where you will have some member of
your family present.
[Damn, this sounds like something Rev. Fred would say! - RS]
5. When in bed, if that is where you have your problem for
the most part, dress yourself for the night so securely that
you cannot easily touch your vital parts, and so that it
would be difficult and time consuming for you to remove
those clothes. By the time you started to remove protective
clothing you would have sufficiently controlled your
thinking that the temptation would leave you.
[Wow, I think a straight jacket should be sufficient to stop
any mormon wanting to have a good tug. Maybe they like
being tied up! - RS]
6. If the temptation seems overpowering while you are in
bed, GET OUT OF BED AND GO INTO THE KITCHEN AND FIX YOURSELF
A SNACK, even if it is in the middle of the night, and even
if you are not hungry, and despite your fears of gaining
weight. The purpose behind this suggestion is that you GET
YOUR MIND ON SOMETHING ELSE. You are the subject of your
thoughts, so to speak.
[So we all know what to think when we see a fat mormon,
don't we people! Anyway, it's more fun to tug with a
chicken sandwich in your mouth, or even one hand! - RS]
7. Never read pornographic material. Never read about your
problem. Keep it out of mind. Remember -- "First a
thought, then an act." The thought pattern must be changed.
You must not allow this problem to remain in your mind.
When you accomplish that, you soon will be free of the act.
[Now that is just not fair. Nothing like a good arousing
piece of tittilation! - RS]
8. Put wholesome thoughts into your mind at all times.
Read good books -- Church books -- Scriptures -- Sermons of
the Brethern [sic, Cistern too?]. Make a daily habit of
reading at least one chapter of Scripture, preferably from
one of the four Gospels in the New Testament, or the Book of
Mormon. The four Gospels -- Matthew, Mark, Luke and John --
above anything else in the Bible can be helpful because of
their uplifting qualities.
[You know, I'd rather be tugging and screaming "Oh, God"
while I shoot a load than read the bible! - RS]
>>> Continued to next message
* OLX 2.1 TD * Accept Jesus as my Saviour? Why, that'd be selfish!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
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SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: All
|Sub: How to Stop Tugging! 2/
|Date: 18 Mar 97 20:11:56
EID:26c2 2272a160
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e868c
>>> Continued from previous message
9. Pray. But when you pray, don't pray about this problem,
for that will tend to keep [it] in your mind more than ever.
Pray for faith, pray for understanding of the Scriptures,
pray for the Missionaries, the General Authorities, your
friends, your families, BUT KEEP THE PROBLEM OUT OF YOUR
MIND BY NOT MENTIONING IT EVER -- NOT IN CONVERSATION WITH
OTHERS, NOT IN YOUR PRAYERS. KEEP IT _OUT_ of your mind!
[The following paragraphs were posted as is. There are
words and lines missing from the obvious poor quality
original from which it was typed.]
The attitude of a person toward his problem has an affect
[sic] on how easy it is to overcome. It is essential that a
firm commitment be made to control the habit. As a person
understands his reasons for the behavior, and is sensitive
to the conditions or situations that may trigger a desire
for the act, he develops the power to control it.
We are taught that our bodies are temples of God, and are to
be clean so that the Holy Ghost may dwell within us.
Masturbation is a sinful habit that robs one of the Spirit
and creates guilt and emotional stress. It is not
physically harmful unless practiced in the extreme. It is a
habit that is totally self-centered, and secretive, and in
no way expresses the proper use of the procreative power
given to man to fulfill eternal purposes. It therefore
separates a person from God and defeats the gospel plan.
This self-gratifying activity will cause one to lose his
self-respect testimony becomes weak, and missionary work and
other Church callings become burdensome, offer ins.
To help in planning an effective program to overcome the
problem a brief explanation is given of how the reproductive
organs in a young man function.
The testes in your body are continually producing hundreds
of millions of reproductive cells call _spermatozoa_. These
are moved up a tube called the _vas deferens_ to a place
called the _ampulla_ where they are mixed with fluids from
two membranous pouches called _seminal vesicles_ and the
_prostate gland_.
The resultant fluid is calle seminal vesicles are full a
signals to the _central nervous system_ indicating they are
ready to be nother, depending on such things as exercise, state
of health, etc. several times a week, for others
It is normal for the vesicles to be emptied occasionally at
night duri se the emptying come from the cetral nervous
system. Often an erotic dream is experienced at the same
time, and is a part of this normal process.
Instead ourse, the reproductive system is operating at a
more rapid pace, trying to keep up with the loss of semen.
When he stops the habit, the body will continue to produce
ahis increased rate, for an indefese are not harmful and are
to be endured until the normal central nervous system
pathway of rel
During this period of control several things can be done to
make the pr
As one meets with his Priesthood Leader, a program for
overcoming masturbation can be implemented using some of t
Remember it is essential that a regular report program be
agreed on, so progress can be recognized and failures
understood and eliminated.
Suggestions:
1. Pray daily, ask for the gifts of the Spirit, that which
will strengthen you against temptation. Pray fervently and
out lout when the temptations are the strongest.
[So you know what to expect when you see a mormon praying,
don't you? - RS]
2. Follow a program of vigorous daily exercise. The
exercises reduce emotional tension and depression and are
absolutely basic to the solution of this problem. Double
your physical activity when you feel stress increasing.
[So THAT is why they ride bicycles everywhere. They are all
perverts! - RS]
3. When the temptation to masturbate is strong, yell _STOP_
to those thoughts as loudly as you can in your mind and then
recite a prechosen Scripture or sing an inspirational hymn.
It is important to turn your thoughts away from the selfish
need to indulge.
[Nah. Singing a hymn is just not as much fun as having a
good wank! - RS]
4. Set goals of abstinence, begin with a day, then a week,
month, year and finally commit to never doing it again.
Until you commit yourself to _never again_ you will always
be open to temptation.
[Wow, it must make you think why the mormons fear a good ol'
wank, eh? - RS]
5. Change in behavior and attitude is most easily achieved
through a changed self-image. Spend time every day
imagining yourself strong and in control, easily overcoming
tempting situations.
[Certainly, the deprivation of a good tug would change your
self-image to one of a guilt ridden sinner. Good on ya
mormons! - RS]
6. Begin to work daily on a self-improvement program.
Relate this plan to improving your Church service, to
improving your relationships with your family, God and
others. Strive to enhance your strengths and talents.
[Wow, why not just allow them to be toss off, and improve
that talent? - RS]
7. Be outgoing and friendly. Force yourself to be with
others and learn to enjoy working and talking to them. Use
principles of developing friendships found in books such as
_How to Win Friends and Influence People_ by Dale Carnegie.
[I'd be tempted to say that James Shotter has a copy of this
book, but I don't think he's following the mormon's advice
to stop tugging his appendage. - RS]
>>> Continued to next message
* OLX 2.1 TD * Accept Jesus as my Saviour? Why, that'd be selfish!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 62 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: All
|Sub: How to Stop Tugging! 3/
|Date: 18 Mar 97 20:11:58
EID:b6c3 2272a160
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e868e
>>> Continued from previous message
8. Be aware of situations that depress you or that cause
you to feel lonely, bored, frustrated or discouraged. These
emotional states can trigger the desire to masturbate as a
way of escape. Plan in advance to counter these low periods
through various activities, such as reading a book, visiting
a friend, doing something athletic, etc.
9. Make a pocket calendar for a month on a small card.
Carry it with you, but show it to no one. If you have a
lapse of self control, color the day black. Your goal will
be to have _no black days_. The calendar becomes a strong
visual reminder of self control and should be looked at when
you are tempted to add another black day. Keep your
calendar up until you have at least three clear months.
[Ahhh. This is the best one so far. When the mormons next
call on your residence, ask to see their wank diary! - RS]
10. A careful study will indicate you have had the problem
at certain times and under certain conditions. Try and
recall, in detail, what your particular times and conditions
were. Now that you understand how it happens, plan to break
the pattern through counter activities.
11. In the field of psychotherapy there is a very effective
technique called _aversion therapy_. When we associate or
think of something very distasteful with something which has
been pleasurable, but undesirable, the distasteful thought
and feeling will begin to cancel out that which was
pleasurable. If you associate something very distasteful
with your loss of self-control it will help you to stop the
act. For example, if you are tempted to masturbate, think
of having to bathe in a tub of worms, and eat several of
them as you do the act.
[Whoa! Kink with worms! And I thought the mormons were a
bunch of prudes! You'd think they'd go for better forms of
aversion therapy, like electrodes attached to testes, etc,
etc. - RS]
12. During your toileting and shower activities leave the
bathroom door or shower curtain partly open, to discourage
being alone in total privacy. Take cool brief showers.
[I totally agree with this. It's so much better to have the
family and friends as an audience to your self
gratification! - RS]
13. Arise immediately in the mornings. Do not lie in bed
awake, no matter what time of day it is. Get up and do
something. Start each day with an enthusiastic activity.
[I thought a good ol' tug was an enthusiastic activity. And
you can do it outta bed anyway! - RS]
14. Keep your bladder empty. Refrain from drinking large
amounts of fluids before retiring.
[Shit! The mormons even think drinking water causes you to
tug! Next thing they will ask is to stop breathing! - RS]
15. Reduce the amount of spices and condiments in your
food. Eat as lightly as possible at night.
[Now they say salt, and a variety of additives, causes
people to toss off at will! Hand me that salt shaker baby!
Wheeee! - RS]
16. Wear pajamas that are difficult to open, yet loose and
not binding.
[I'd prefer the ones that bind, thanks very much! - RS]
17. Avoid people, situations, pictures or reading materials
that might create sexual excitement.
[Oh, they mean don't live. I am sure of it! - RS]
18. It is sometimes helpful to have a physical object to
use in overcoming this problem. A Book of Mormon, firmly
held in hand, even in bed at night has proven helpful in
extreme cases.
[Some sort of masturbatory aid would come in much much
handier in these situations, and be so much much more fun!
Don't you think! - RS]
19. In very severe cases it may be necessary to tie a hand
to the bed frame with a tie in order that the habit of
masturbating in a semi-sleep condition can be broken. This
can also be accomplished by wearing several layers of
clothing which would be difficult to remove while half
asleep.
[Wow. Just love all that bondage stuff, eh? These mormons
have this thing about wanking, but not about the kinky
stuff! - RS]
20. Set up a reward system for your successes. It does not
have to be a big reward. A quarter in a receptacle each
time you overcome or reach a goal. Spend it on something
which delights you and will be a continuing reminder of your
progress.
[Possibly spend it on the deluxe "SuperVibroSuckMachine" from
any of those shops of ill repute in Perth. *grin* - RS]
21. Do not let yourself return to any past habit or
attitude patterns which were part of your problem. _Satan
Never Gives Up_. Be calmly and confidently on guard. Keep
a positive mental attitude. You can win this fight! The
joy and strength you will feel when you do will give your
whole life a radiant and spiritual glow of satisfaction and
fulfillment.
[Whoa, so satan is the ruler of darkness and wanking now???
That should be interesting news to him! - RS]
___-------------------------------------------------------------------
* OLX 2.1 TD * Accept Jesus as my Saviour? Why, that'd be selfish!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
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SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Ask And Ye Shall Receive
|Date: 18 Mar 97 20:16:00
EID:5f69 2272a200
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e8780
* On 15-03-97 at 15:50, LYNDA BUSTILLOZ wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Ask And Ye Shall Receive" in echo Holysmoke:
LB> SQ> RS> You could play sexual encounter technique four. Ask the Mormon
LB> SQ> RS> lads if they'd like to make it a threesome/foursome with you
and
LB> SQ> RS> your wife :) :)
LB> SQ> I'm a little more creative than that. "We'd like to put
LB> SQ> some nipple clamps on the two of you and burn you with
LB> SQ> cigarettes and hot coffee." :)
LB> RS> I thought that was one of the major activities of the cult of
LB> RS> repression called Mormonism :) :) :)
LB> Er, no...they try to avoid coffee. ;)
Oh, ok. Thanks for clearing that up. P.S. Read the thread
called "How to stop tugging".
Rod "..you will enjoy!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Hey, Rocky, watch me pull a saviour out of this virgin!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 62 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 2401/0 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Re: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 18 Mar 97 20:20:02
EID:1762 2272a280
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e8872
* On 16-03-97 at 10:54, CHRISTOPHER HUGHES wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Re: Oops, Caught Again" in echo Holysmoke:
CH> > It is a number of techniques in which Christians dodge the
CH> > question. When an opponent calls them on a point, or plainly
CH> > debunks them, a fundie may respond by:
CH> > 1) redefining what he says deftly, and hence claiming
CH> > the opponent is wrong.
CH> > 2) denying he said it.
CH> > 3) sticking fingers in ear and claiming the opponent
CH> > is wrong.
CH> > 4) deftly changes tactics and moves to another
CH> > controversial point to try and remove the
CH> > heat from them, or retheorise on the same
CH> > point.
CH> I wouldn't be suprised if the Christians taught hatting, too. *grin*
Jim is doing enough hatting in his desperate attempts to deny
Christian militancy, and domestic Christian terrorism.
CH> By Eris, where would we be today if it weren't for those lovable
CH> Scientologists and their secret tactics to teach their cultists how
CH> to lie on the witness stand? (Aside from better off.)
Well, if we didn't have scientologists, we'd not have women dead
on arrival at hospitals in St Petersburg, FL, after a good
dehydration! :)
CH> > When a fundie is asked to provide proof to a claim, they:
CH> > 1) claim that the dog ate it/they can't show it, but
CH> > that it's "true" by reassertion.
CH> > 2) claim that it was from a reputable source, but
CH> > not cite it.
CH> > 3) claim it is something that "everyone knows".
CH> > 4) claim that it is the onus of the questioner
CH> > to disprove their theory.
CH> This last, of course, is the most common. "I claim that God exists.
CH> Can you disprove it?" Of course, the people that rely on this get very
CH> upset when I mention Eris and the IPUs.
Or, naturally, the very existent Star Goat! It's up to them to
disprove, after all :)
CH> > Most do. Of course, also, they teach their believers to ignore
CH> > the fact they've been completely debunked, and to keep believing.
CH> > That is, "no matter what you hear, and no matter how well they
CH> > prove our leadership wrong, we're still right". They're even
CH> > taught to grab on harder to the cult in "defense" or even worse,
CH> > to idolate their leaders: "How *dare* you say that about that
CH> > loving and compassionate and benevolent Paul Hill!"... :)
CH> It isn't even that they're taught it. It's part of the faith. If someone
CH> comes at a believer with a logical debunking, well, then that argument
CH> wasn't divinely inspired and therefore must be wrong. *shrug* *baffle*
*sigh*. It's so sad that they don't have the humility to admit
error.
CH> FR>> It's one of the reasons why I'm arching this forum. Of
CH> FR>> course his history is one of demanding that an alternate
CH> FR>> personality said something so he can deny being responsible.
CH> > Bathroom has a way with personalities. :)
CH> Has anyone counted how many he seems to have?
Not that I know of, but he's proud to have an anti-Semite among
his multiple personalities -- namely Lon S. Mabon.
I'm wondering when he'll start posting as Fred J. Phelps Senior
and show us his really nasty hatred! ;)
CH> FR>> Yes, I've been watching that thread. He demanded that
CH> FR>> there was no such thing as domestic terrorism and, after
CH> FR>> you enumerated a few, he got even more shrill.
CH> > Yes, and on repeating it to him, claiming he couldn't answer,
he
CH> > snipped my proof, his denial, and quoted my facetious and snide
CH> > comments about how it must have *NOT* been christian domestic
CH> > terrorism.
CH> When all else fails, massage the data to fit the hypothesis. That's
CH> the Dr. Cameron way!
But what else could we expect from dishonest Christians who would
rather deny the Christianity of a perpetrator, than correct the
sinner?
Rod "...they have truly gone astray." Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Live sex in a Toyota nixes evil
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
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SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Re: Secure digital confe
|Date: 18 Mar 97 20:21:04
EID:c645 2272a2a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e88b0
* On 16-03-97 at 11:01, CHRISTOPHER HUGHES wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Re: Secure digital confer" in echo Holysmoke:
CH> FR>> rs> Ah, you were thinking what I was thinking :)
CH> FR>> "I think so, Brain, but where are we going to get all that
CH> FR>> mustard at this hour?"
CH> "Focus, Pinky, Focus!"
That's Brother Fredric, not I :)
CH> > I think I've found my evil twin, Skippy :) :)
CH> Well, you've found someone's evil twin, that's for sure. And stop calling
CH> me Skippy! :)
Ho ho ho! :) Brother Fredric will be pleased to know that we
will both be meeting him in Los Angeles, if justice has it's way :)
Rod "...and it'll be fun!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Give Christians Prozac, not Government Office!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 62 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
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SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Re: They're all Christia
|Date: 18 Mar 97 20:24:06
EID:e957 2272a300
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e8966
* On 16-03-97 at 11:08, CHRISTOPHER HUGHES wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Re: They're all Christian" in echo Holysmoke:
CH> FR>> rs> It has been heretics, witches, atheists, abortion, and now
gays.
CH> FR>> rs> After gay people, who will be the next target of the Christians?
CH> FR>> I think they cycle through the list. We made some progress
CH> FR>> in all these areas only to have the gains lost later.
CH> > Which is why we must have more allies. It's strange that gay
CH> > people's only real allies we have are people of Jewish descent,
CH> > and women. African Americans have been very hesitant to help
the
CH> > cause of equal rights, and people of Latin American backgrounds
CH> > are quite hostile and sometimes claim sides with the enemy in
CH> > bashings and the like.
CH> I think it has to do with the high percentage of Christians in both
of
CH> those communities. Another factor is that, unfortunately, the gay rights
CH> movement is right now being treated as the albatross of the community,
CH> a position that the atheists used to be in (and still are, for the most
CH> part). All of the other groups seeking equal rights are afraid of helping
CH> out the really oppressed people, for fear of somehow making their own
CH> claims seem less important.
This is true. There has been direct resistance from racial
groups to the plight of gay people because they perceive that
their rights are under threat now even without supporting the
rights of other statistical and discriminated against minorities.
The fact is that the reverse is true. If they only highlight
that the discrimination hasn't ended in America they can show a
justifiable reason to defend the attacks on racial equality.
CH> ("But those people defend the rights of
CH> faggots and heathens to act immoral in public, so how can I in good
CH> conscience defend their position?")
Yes, that is what some people fear in some racial minorities. It
takes courage to represent and fight for the rights of people
whom you may actually find repugnant.
Rod "...but it is a true mark of good citizenship." Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus Christ Super Fraud. The Musical!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 62 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 2401/0 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Re: Freedom of choice
|Date: 18 Mar 97 20:25:08
EID:5551 2272a320
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e89a4
* On 16-03-97 at 13:18, CHRISTOPHER HUGHES wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Re: Freedom of choice" in echo Holysmoke:
CH> KD>> That's where you fall, Ken. You have no evidence that hetero
CH> KD>> sexuality is anything more than simply common.
CH> > Reminds me of that cute tag line for when they say that
CH> > heterosexuality is normal (i.e. correct):
CH> > "Heterosexuality isn't normal, it's just common"
CH> And if there's anything a true Southern Belle hates being, it's common.
:)
Oh, you go girl! :) That biological clock is ticking!!!!
*taps watch quickly and repeatedly!*
Rod "...ho ho ho!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Homophobia: the fear obvious to all but the homophobe!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Book Theft
|Date: 18 Mar 97 20:33:10
EID:af26 2272a420
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e8b86
* On 16-03-97 at 07:23, MARILYN BURGE wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Book Theft" in echo Holysmoke:
MB> RS> It parallels exactly Loving v Virginia (1967 Supreme Court)
MB> RS> which found that it was illegal and invidious discrimination
MB> RS> to deny someone the potential to marry someone of a different
MB> RS> race, and be compelled to marry someone of their own race.
MB> Notice, though, the USSC waited until the population was
MB> sufficiently mongrelized to where it was impossible for somebody
MB> to find another person of exactly their own race before they made
MB> that ruling.
Well, I'll make no comment of the judicial expediency except to
say that 30 states that had laws against interracial marriage in
1948 -- in which California was the first state to have their
courts rule it unconstitutional.
That 30 only had dropped to 16 in the fourteen years until the
start of the Loving v Virginia case in the early 60s. The only
reason the US Supreme Court even heard the case was because it
involved full faith and credit issues. Until that time, all the
laws had been challenged by state residents wanting to get
married in each state -- cases determined within the domains of
each state's courts.
MB> If they wait a corresponding length of time to see
MB> the folly of confining marriage to people of the opposite gender,
MB> we'll all be six feet under before it happens.
I don't think so. You must remember that anti-miscegnation laws
were started to be challenged about 1948 (as shown above) and
were all outlawed by 1967's court ruling. We'll be nice and say
it's 20 years.
The case of Singer v Hara in Washington (their same-sex marriage
case) was heard in 1974. Hawaii's case should have been decided
in 1993, had it not been delayed -- a twenty-year period.
The time for same-gender marriage has arrived. The clock is
ticking. It's 5 more months until they are back in court. 8-9
months away from a final decision. And it's it. It can't go
to the US Supreme Court. Marriage is a state's issue.
However, the recognition of any marriage out of Hawaii by any
other state (should it be denied recognition) will be challenged,
and so too will the federal denial of equal protection.
Under DOMA, one Hawaiian marriage will be accorded rights from
1049 federal laws treating spouses specially, while another
Hawaiian marriage will not. This is a clear breach of the equal
protection clause of the US constitution if practiced by the US
Government (say, in taxation and immigration), and the full faith
and credit clause and equal protection clauses if by another
state.
Rod "...so don't worry, dear Marilyn. Besides, Christopher and I
will be one of the litigants in the class-action suit against the
US government, and every state government. :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Rutabaga: Lord of the vegies
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: 666
|Date: 18 Mar 97 20:33:12
EID:8505 2272a420
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e8b88
* On 16-03-97 at 20:44, ANTHONY GRIGOR-SCOTT wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "666" in echo Holysmoke:
AG> RS> Watched Schindler's List lately, Anthony? Or would your eyes burn?
AG> No need to view what we know are lies.
Lies? It's only a movie. It's *drama*, Anthony? Don't you know
what a genre is?
Rod "...ho hoho, you really do fear the truth of the holocaust,
that you even deny it in a fictitious portrayal of it!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Land rights for gay whales!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Mormongate
|Date: 18 Mar 97 20:40:14
EID:9dac 2272a500
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e8d2e
* On 16-03-97 at 19:46, STEVE QUARRELLA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Mormongate" in echo Holysmoke:
SQ> SQ>> You don't understand how these people work, Rod. That's an INVITATION
SQ> SQ>> to them to come back and ask "What have we done wrong? Have we
SQ> SQ>> offended you in some way?"
SQ> RS> Exactly. :) :) That's exactly what you want.
SQ> No, not really: If they come back after they've been told
SQ> (in writing, with references to lawyers) that they're not
SQ> to visit, then I have to spend a lot of money to pursue
SQ> the motherfuckers.
SQ> Now, if we get to a restraining order and someone violates
SQ> it, all I have to do is pick up the phone and call the
SQ> local police.
Yes, this was my first suggestion. Direct application to the
courts for a restraint order.
SQ> RS> Have you thought about going around to their place and preaching
SQ> RS> the word of StarGoat(tm)? :) :)
SQ> I asked the bishop in my confrontation with him how he'd
SQ> like it if I came to his house and lectured him and his
SQ> family. If memory serves, he indicated that I wasn't
SQ> welcome there.
Oh, such double standards! :) :) You could picket outside his
house, on public thoroughfare. Picket his kids school! :) :)
SQ> Remember, though: I'm the Dopefish pope. I asked the guy how
SQ> he'd like it if I put my hand on a map tomorrow and inducted him
SQ> into MY church. He told me that I was being silly. Yeah? I bet
SQ> I could hide behind the First Amendment too. As I said,
SQ> though, I'm not going to draw this out, especially since
SQ> I'm dealing with a bunch of IMHO dangerous lunatics who
SQ> hear voices in their heads, commanding them to bully my
SQ> partner in life.
You fear domestic Christanic terrorism too? :) :)
SQ> RS> Rod "...and to know that you have won, of course!" Swift :)
SQ> I stand to be the big loser on this: If I DO have to drag these
SQ> bastards into court, then, inevitably, it gets back to my in-laws.
Oh, I didn't realise they were still culties.
SQ> They, in turn, will bully my wife FOR the church, doing all
SQ> kinds of shitty things like threatening to keep their
SQ> children (whom my wife loves) away from her.
This is the evil nature of cults. :( I feel sorry for your
situation. I wish I could do something to help.
SQ> THIS is why I'm not out there "having fun" with these assholes.
SQ> I do not wish to be the agent of my wife's separation from her
SQ> family, even IF the Quarrellas treat her better.
Then the only solution to the stalemate, at this point, is no
action. Your wife, on the other hand, if she ever decides "damn
the cult, and the family if necessary", then you have ammunition.
However, you cannot, and no one cannot, push your partner in that
direction :( :(
Rod "...but it is logical that if the threat no longer remains,
the freedom to act exists" Swift...
* OLX 2.1 TD * First rule of intelligent tinkering: Save all the parts
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Darryl's Loverboy
|Date: 18 Mar 97 20:40:16
EID:9200 2272a500
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e8d30
* On 16-03-97 at 19:54, STEVE QUARRELLA wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Darryl's Loverboy" in echo Holysmoke:
SQ> RS> Sounds like that he's been quoting "Dr" Paul Cameron or one of
SQ> RS> his stooges at NARTH again :)
SQ> RS> I have the ways to debunk such a fool, if you are interested :)
SQ> RS> :)
SQ> You or Christopher are welcome to log in here and have at
SQ> it yourself in the THUMP_IT conference. :)
I'm in Australia. Can't afford the long distance :)
Rod "...is it Z1 backboned?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Diplomacy: The patriotic art of lying for one's country
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 18 Mar 97 20:46:18
EID:3b03 2272a5c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e8e9a
* On 14-03-97 at 13:26, JIM STAAL wrote to SUE ALEXANDER,
on the topic of "My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RS> I've only known a life of Godlessness... It is a beautiful life.
JS> JS> You have a god. The Bible says those who don't worship God, worship
JS> JS> the god of this world: Satan.
JS> SA> So Jim...do you believe that Satan exists?
JS> Of course, Sue.
Ah, so you're a Satanist?
Rod "...thanks for your admission" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Laugh and the world thinks you're an idiot
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ask And Ye Shan'T Rec
|Date: 18 Mar 97 20:48:20
EID:57e0 2272a600
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e8f14
* On 14-03-97 at 13:45, JIM STAAL wrote to ROGER HUNTER,
on the topic of "ASK AND YE SHAN'T REC" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> RH> Score to date;
JS> Nah.
JS> Rod Staal
JS> 0 all
Remember, it was you that claimed was right. All I requested was
confirmation from independent third parties.
Now you don't even like the independent judges and witnesses to
your complete debunking on my behalf.
Rod "...it's ok, you can move the goalposts to anywhere on the
field after the game is over :) :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Blessed are the fundies, for they shall INHIBIT the Earth
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Robert Curry
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 18 Mar 97 20:49:22
EID:a827 2272a620
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e8f52
* On 15-03-97 at 11:34, ROBERT CURRY wrote to KEN WIENS,
on the topic of "Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:
RC> KW> Jesus said those who were his true followers would be known
RC> KW> by the good 'fruits' they evidenced
RC> And where do the good 'fruits' go to church? Metropolitan Ministries?
The Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches, yes,
or maybe that nice Jewish Congregation that is queer friendly :)
Rod "...praise jesus for 'true fruits'" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Does killing time damage eternity?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: Christanic Terrorists
|Date: 18 Mar 97 20:51:24
EID:51ff 2272a660
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e8fcc
* On 15-03-97 at 17:24, ROGER HUNTER wrote to ED MILLS,
on the topic of "CHRISTANIC TERRORISTS" in echo Holysmoke:
RH> EM> Methinks it's time to establish a volunteer corps of armed
RH> EM> pro-choice activists to guard the clinics.
RH> Can we have Uzis? Better yet, can we USE 'em?
Let me guess. If you did shoot up some Christians, would Jimson
be eager to deny your Atheism and call you a "false atheist" as
quick as he denies his Christian bretheren's Christianity and
calls them "fals Christian"?
I wonder if he'd deny your atheism at all???
Rod "...I guess not, in fact" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Only those who attempt the absurd achieve the impossible
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Fred Cherry
|Date: 18 Mar 97 20:54:26
EID:686f 2272a6c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e9082
* On 16-03-97 at 10:11, CHRISTOPHER HUGHES wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "Fred Cherry" in echo Holysmoke:
CH> rs>> Oh, but the john1@heterosexual.com is a most fun vanity
CH> rs>> email address. You do know of Fred Cherry, don't you?
CH> > That name doesn't ring any particular bells, no.
CH> Fred's a dear. He thinks that the homosexual cabal is out to force-feed
CH> him wheat gluten. He used to belong to a "sexual freedoms" organisation
CH> in the 70s because they supposed legalised prostitution. When some radical
CH> feminist lesbian became head of the organisation, she dumped prostitution
CH> from the charter, saying it exploited women. Cherry's been out to get
his
CH> "sexual orientation" of "prostitute-seeker" recognised ever since, and
CH> calls Rod a homonazi and the head of an international pink conspiracy
to
CH> get prostitution outlawed globally.
The correct term, as in his deposition in his case Cherry v Reno,
was "Said person is an Australian Homosexual Nazi".
CH> I mean, never mind that both he and I support legalising it (once it's
CH> legal, it can be TAXED, you see). That particular detail is unimportant
CH> in Cherry's little world.
I clearly advised Cherry that not only is Nevada nicer
weather-wise, and will allow him to be more active -- they also
have legalised prostitution! :) :)
Rod "...he has the freedom to choose to move to Nevada" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * If this is reality I want a refund!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Re: Staal wants to know.
|Date: 18 Mar 97 21:04:28
EID:3dd3 2272a880
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e92dc
* On 16-03-97 at 11:26, CHRISTOPHER HUGHES wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "Re: Staal wants to know." in echo Holysmoke:
CH> > RS> 1) Satan exists.
CH> > He does.
CH> This, boys and girls, is called "Proof by assertion" and is known as
CH> invalid and fallacious at any level of argument past kindergarten.
So that's two people who ask him for "Evidence?" from the erudite
one. :) :) Plus the dozen more who know that LB and LC are on
the right track on this one :) :)
CH> > RS> 2) I am under control of said "Satan" construct.
CH> > I know of no 'satan construct'.
CH> Sure you do.
In another post, Jimson claimed to believe in Satan.
CH> Here's a question for you, Jim. If we don't have free will (and you've
CH> said in the past that you don't believe in free will), then didn't Satan
CH> rebel because God wanted him to? If we have no free will, then what
does
CH> it matter if we're saved or not; all of our actions are predetermined
CH> anyway. And if we do have free will, then what do we need God for?
*ping ping ping ping*. Don't ask the hard questions. Give the
boy a chance to fall into the trap! :) :)
CH> > The evidence of you being under the
CH> > control of Satan, however, is clear in your unwarranted attacks on
CH> > Christians and Christianity and your obvious fear of God's Word.
CH> Uh, Jim.. I think I've said this before but I'll say it again. Neither
CH> my husband nor I "fear" the Bible. Fear has nothing to do with it. We
CH> think it's a _joke_. It's a laugh. I could get more divinely inspired
CH> messages in a bowl of Alpha-Bits, assuming there's a divine to begin
CH> with, which I don't.
But if you get the lovely imaginary friend of an echo
participant's child -- Ciya -- and her friend Ciya, you could
have that divine intervention! :)
CH> > Must be a man knowledgeable of scripture. Unlike yourself.
CH> I know quite a bit about scripture. I've read the Bible, Jim. Twice.
CH> I was thorougly underwhelmed. Now, I'm not Christian, and so I'll grant
CH> that my opinion and understanding of the book is at a different level
CH> from yours, but I doubt you'd get anything out of reading Galt's speech
CH> or the Principia Discordia, so we're even on that score.
Please tell Jimson how you had preachers and pastrors screaming
about how unfair your questioning was when you were aged 8 :) :)
CH> > All who blaspheme (such as you did above) are under the influence
of
CH> > Satan to do so.
CH> There you go trying to redefine the playing field. Can't do that. 5
yard
CH> penalty.
Too bad the game has already been played, and I have won!
Rod "...ho ho ho"! Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * The *Constitution* is the Contract with America!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Re: My Summer Weekend 1/
|Date: 18 Mar 97 21:21:30
EID:4be7 2272aaa0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e96da
* On 16-03-97 at 11:55, CHRISTOPHER HUGHES wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "Re: My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
CH> JS> CH> Jim, you obviously have a screw loose somewhere. I should think
it's
CH> JS> CH> pretty clear to you by now that my husband is an atheist.
CH> JS> How come you both call each other 'husband'? Marriage consists
of
CH> JS> husband and wife.
CH> Uh.. no... marriage consists of two (or potentially more, but for now
I'll
CH> handwave over polygamous marriages) people that vow to spend their lives
CH> together, for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health, for as long
as
CH> they both (all) shall live. "Husband" as a descriptor means a married
male.
CH> I'm his husband, he's my husband. It isn't that hard to figure out.
Come on, Christopher. We're talking to someone who has chosen to
undergo a lobotomy for the sake of spirituality.
CH> JS> CH> As such, anything that the Bible does or doesn't have to say
on
CH> JS> CH> any given subject isn't going to mean anything to him (or to
me,
CH> JS> CH> or to any of the other non-Christians around this echo) because
CH> JS> CH> we doubt the authority of said text.
CH> JS> a. I have seen Cubby verbally shrink in the channel when scripture
is
CH> JS> quoted. He runs. And...
CH> Uh, running would imply him signing off, or parting channel. Normally
CH> he just ignores it and goes on discussing what he's talking about. Now,
CH> if you're so far removed from logic that you treat "Jim, get your head
CH> out of your ass, stop parroting that damn book and start thinking for
CH> yourself" as running, then there's not much I'm going to be able to
do
CH> to help you get over your psychosis.
Psychosis? So he has a psychosis AND
multiple-personality-disorder now, huh? :) :)
CH> JS> b. The Bible _is_ the authority. (Heb 4:12 NIV)
CH> Only to those that accept Christianity. I do not. Neither does he.
Yes, we accept a higher moral code of ethics than the base-level
haphazard and contradictory moral code of the bible that sees so
many Christanic fools raping women, children, and animals, and
most importantly -- the wallets of every parishioner!
CH> JS> CH> If all you give us when we ask you questions is scripture, why
CH> JS> CH> are you suprised when we say you haven't a brain in your head?
CH> JS> What do you mean 'all'.
CH> I've never heard you yet come up with an intelligent argument that wasn't
CH> founded or justified by your book.
No. You've yet to hear him make any intelligent argument
whatsoever. The only arguments he makes are those he makes based
on his book -- and by default are not intelligent as no
intelligence was used to create them.
CH> I used to have that problem, except I used Atlas Shrugged and not
CH> the Bible. I know what it's like to parrot answers without analysis.
Damn Randroid. And you needed to see how people could live
without Randroidism, yet still live in peace and harmony --
proving there was a better way.
CH> I'm pretty good at spotting it in others. And that is all you've
CH> ever done. We ask you a question, you recite a Bible verse. Or if
CH> you don't, you give us a "scripturally-approved" answer.
He's yet to discover that in enemies, you are the one more
dangerous than I :) :)
CH> Is there a single thought that runs through your head that
CH> WASN'T inspired by that book? Or can we simply ignore you and go
CH> laugh at the Bible again?
I say laugh at him, because he is the epitome of his bible. He's
ripped his higher-brain-functions out and replaced them with an
outdated book. We're quite right and justified to laugh at his folly.
CH> JS> CH> For cat's sake, Jim, at least ONE time please try to THINK
CH> JS> CH> and give us an OBJECTIVE answer that has nothing to do with
CH> JS> CH> the Bible when we ask you a question. Otherwise you're
CH> JS> CH> going to just get the same stuff over and over again.
CH> JS> Why should/would I give you an objective answer when I can give
you
CH> JS> _the_ definitive answer.
CH> For the following reasons:
CH> A) I'm not interested in what the Bible has to say on the subjects.
If I
CH> wanted biblical answers, I'd reread the Bible. I've done so twice,
and
CH> am not interested in a third.
Further, you failed to see that he claimed he could give you a
definitive answer, as opposed to an objective one. I note that
subjective answers can be concise and definitive too :) :)
CH> B) I'd like to see you THINK. Not recite, but THINK. As in, use the
grey
CH> matter that is part of your genetic inheritance as a human being.
He's given up all hope of higher brain function, Chris.
CH> C) Your alleged "definitive" answer is only valid for other members
of your
CH> faith. I am not one, and so your answers based on it have no meaning
to
CH> me.
Correct. It is hardly applicable, nor objective, to secular
society. Jim has to learn to be able to play nicely with others,
and interact.
CH> JS> CH> Afraid? Afraid's a mighty big word, Jim. It's hard to fear something
CH> JS> CH> that one doesn't think exists.
CH> JS> Then I guess your argument doesn't apply. God and His Word both
exist.
CH> As I've heard you so often ask in the past, "Evidence?"
Tou-fucking-che!
CH> Standard rules of logical argument dictate that the one making an
CH> assertion is responsible for the defense of that argument.
Tou-fucking-che!
CH> Short form of the above: You're the one making the claim that God exists.
CH> You prove it.
Tou-fucking-che!
CH> JS> CH> I'll admit I fear the average Christian's capacity for violence,
CH> JS> CH> hatred, intolerance and arrogance,
CH> JS> Then i guess you have nothing to fear from me.
CH> Why? Are you not an average Christian?
No. He denies every Christian who is a domestic terrorist. That
means it's very likely that Jimson will turn into one after he
denies every person but himself from being a "true Christian".
When he eliminates all others, and chooses to be the second
coming, he will go and shoot up some place and some innocent
people. :)
>>> Continued to next message
* OLX 2.1 TD * Accept Jesus as my Saviour? Why, that'd be selfish!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Re: My Summer Weekend 2/
|Date: 18 Mar 97 21:21:32
EID:bbe7 2272aaa0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e96dc
>>> Continued from previous message
CH> JS> CH> You could truthfully make this statement about a vast number
of
CH> JS> CH> things, I think.
CH> JS> You know, Chris, you don't seem like a bad guy. No reason to get
CH> JS> personal about this stuff.
CH> I'm not getting any more personal than I've seen you get with my husband.
He's yet to learn that he's got it all wrong, and he should fear
you more than I, Chris :) :)
CH> You openly accuse him of being afraid of the Bible (which borders on
CH> insult in my book),
...correct, and unproven by Jim. This would be called false
witnessing by his own faith, and is a sin...
CH> claim that there's a supreme being without evidence
CH> to support your claim,
...correct, unproven by Jim. This would be called false
pretense by the laws of logic, and is a logical fallacy...
CH> and then get huffy when the heathens don't let your
CH> assumptions go untested?
...correct, and proven against Jim. This would be called false
conclusion after the application of the fallacy stated above...
CH> And you expect me to play nice?
Oh boy. Isn't he going to be in for a surprise *evil grin*. :)
CH> I'm sorry, Jim, but I don't sit up, beg, roll over, or do other tricks.
Nor do you beg at under the table of human rights, waiting for
scraps -- especially when it was Jimson that claimed that gays
"already are equal" and hence must, by logic, share a place at
the table!
Rod "...of course, this is yet another double standard of the
Evil Jimson" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Accept Jesus as my Saviour? Why, that'd be selfish!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Re: Cracker Barrel boyco
|Date: 18 Mar 97 21:22:34
EID:1120 2272aac0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e971a
* On 16-03-97 at 12:03, CHRISTOPHER HUGHES wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Re: Cracker Barrel boycot" in echo Holysmoke:
CH> > A gay can get saved, but if they get saved they cannot remain
gay.
CH> > They will be changed by the power of God.
CH> All of the gay Christians I know would disagree with that.
To Ken, and to Jim, they don't exist! :)
CH> > Gays are unable to be saved, simply because once saved they are
no
CH> > longer homosexuals.
CH> See above.
He's a laugh, and a joke. All in one. Hours of fun for all the
family! :) :)
Rod "...he's also into denial" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Death: to stop sinning suddenly
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Re: The Jesus was homose
|Date: 18 Mar 97 21:25:36
EID:c789 2272ab20
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e97d0
* On 16-03-97 at 12:06, CHRISTOPHER HUGHES wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Re: The Jesus was homosex" in echo Holysmoke:
CH> RS>> And it is our job to be vigilant and to stop the abuses of our
CH> RS>> fellow humans by a small group of humans who'd rather use
CH> RS>> religion in a way more akin to Orwell's "Animal Farm"
CH> RS>> (politically) or 1984 (social order) than for benevolence.
CH> > Well, not all CHristians would do this. I sadly admit, some would
CH> > like to, as they go way too far with morality, but I doubt if
the bulk
CH> > of Christians would be for tyranny just to try to stifle immorality.
CH> The bulk of Christians are doing it right now. They're sitting back
CH> and doing nothing, allowing the few really right-wing zealots claim
CH> that they're acting in the name of God and get away with it. And
CH> because the majority of US citizens are Christian, the politicians
CH> who suck up to the pollsters also suck up to the right-wing loonies,
CH> because they think that the vocal minority represent the viewpoint
CH> of the masses.
Of course, the Christians who fail to speak out -- who fail to
condemn the acts of these Christian domestic terrorists -- are
not even following their own book!
Proverbs 10:10 -- Someone who holds back the truth
causes more trouble, but one who
openly cticitizes works for peace.
CH> If you don't think that the people in power are doing what is right,
stand
CH> up and speak out against them. Don't sit on your arse and say "Oh well,
too
CH> bad."
Remember, the worst thing a Christian can fear is someone else
who is NOT a Christian holding their book against them!
Rod "... but will they ever learn from their silence? Will
anyone else?" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus died for our sins, so let's not disappoint him
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Re: Cracker Barrel boyco
|Date: 18 Mar 97 21:31:38
EID:1120 2272abe0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e993a
* On 16-03-97 at 12:11, CHRISTOPHER HUGHES wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Re: Cracker Barrel boycot" in echo Holysmoke:
CH> RS>> I cannot believe he has YET to justify his assumptions that:
CH> RS>> 1) only one sexual orientation is the correct one
CH> > Because only one is natural and has a practical purpose.
CH> "Purpose" implies design. Post hoc argument. Invalid.
It cannot move from being a post hoc argument until the
substantive is proven correct -- i.e. evidence is provided.
CH> RS>> 2) that it is his sexual orientation if it is
CH> > Heterosexuality is that sexual preference that has a practical
purpose
CH> > to it and is natural.
CH> Again, purpose implying design. Post hoc argument. Invalid.
It cannot move from being a post hoc argument until the
substantive is proven correct -- i.e. evidence is provided.
CH> RS>> 3) that everyone is "born straight"
CH> > If anyone is born with any sexual preference or orientation,
CH> > heterosexuality is it.
CH> Proof by assertion. Invalid.
It cannot move from being an assertion until the assertion
moves to evidenced theory -- i.e. evidence is provided.
CH> RS>> 4) that gay people "choose".
CH> > There have been studies to suggest this.
CH> Publication information, please?
It cannot move from being an assertion until the assertion
moves to evidenced theory -- i.e. evidence is provided.
CH> > And homosexuality is obviously a part of you, right? It is part
of
CH> > who you are and what makes you, you. Well then, just as through
other
CH> > experiences and choices, you decided what your personality would
CH> > eventually grow into, you also decided to be gay, the same way.
CH> If this is the case, that still doesn't say that it's a conscious decision.
CH> "Choice" implies some kind of rational decision that occured. If the
above
CH> is what's going on, then it's sociological, but not chosen. *shrug*
CH> Also, I'm very curious about this, so I'll ask it here:
CH> So what if it's a choice?
A very good question. Religion is a choice. Religion has
protection under the constitution. If people don't like
religious discrimination, they can change their religion! :)
CH> I'm not saying it is, because I know for a fact that I didn't choose.
But
CH> even if I did, what difference does it make?
It makes no difference. They would just pretend that it does.
The reason that they rely on it being a choice is so that they
can keep peddling the idea that it's *rechoosable* and hence
*curable*.
Also, it not being a choice is the greatest threat to their God's
existence -- or their viewpoint thereof -- that has ever faced
Christian zealots.
CH> RS>> He still spews the same shit, as if he were Laurie Appleton on
CH> RS>> Creationism/Evolutionism.
CH> > Funny, he always seems to make sense. Perhaps, you just aren't
deep
CH> > enough to understand.
CH> Somehow this comment doesn't suprise me.
See, their viewpoint is sacrosanct, and the truth is alterable to
fit it.
Rod "...but of course!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Commit the oldest sins the newest kind of ways
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Quote File!
|Date: 18 Mar 97 21:35:42
EID:6535 2272ac60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e9a2e
* On 16-03-97 at 12:34, CHRISTOPHER HUGHES wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "Re: My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
CH> Jim, the only thing you've proven is that there's a direct correlation
CH> between strength of belief and immunity to logic.
For your reference, Brother Fredric. I think it's about time
Brother Christopher was introduced to the Quote File :)
Rod "...ho ho ho!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * If this is reality I want a refund!
--- Maximus 2.02
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Re: Around the World in.
|Date: 18 Mar 97 21:43:44
EID:cba3 2272ad60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e9c10
* On 16-03-97 at 12:40, CHRISTOPHER HUGHES wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "Re: Around the World in.." in echo Holysmoke:
CH> RS>> No. The claim for wanting additional rights may be an equal
CH> RS>> rights claim. If we are deprived a right, and we claim to want
CH> RS>> it added, it's EQUATING rights.
CH> > Why should you have different rights than I? That would be an
CH> > additional right.
CH> We're not saying we should have different rights. We're saying you
CH> already have additional rights and we're not given equal access to
CH> them.
He will now shove fingers in ears and claim that gays *have*
equal rights -- when he really should be admitting that the
constitution of the United states *promises* equal rights.
The promise has not been realised, nor enacted.
CH> RS>> This is the case in marriage law discrimination, and the
CH> RS>> discrimination based on gender from those laws.
CH> > Define marriage.
CH> The state in which two or more people swear to spend their lives together
CH> for their common benefit.
Marriage: A union of two non-familially-related legal-aged people
choose to enter for the reasons they so choose, rather than the
reasons the state so choose.
CH> RS>> The desire to have laws that outlaw job discrimination based on
CH> RS>> sexual orientation are not *special rights*. Heterosexuals would
CH> RS>> be as equally able to claim discrimination if fired for being
CH> RS>> straight.
CH> > You can't fire someone for being gay.
CH> You can, in 41 states.
He's ignorant, Christopher. It's now 42, BTW. One of the states
that disallowed discrimination, by executive order, had the
anti-discrimination laws revoked after the 1996 election.
Besides, if Jimson claims that discrimination in the workplace on
the basis of sexual orientation is wrong, he should be the first
to enshrine this into state AND FEDERAL laws, no?
I wonder if he does support it being put specifically into laws?
CH> RS>> The desire to be able to marry the partner that one loves is not
CH> RS>> a special rights claim, but an equal rights claim, because all
CH> RS>> people would be afforded the right to choose to marry any person
CH> RS>> of any gender.
CH> > Define marriage.
CH> See above.
CH> RS>> The right to serve in the military is an equal rights claim.
The
CH> RS>> current policy is discrimination based on FREE SPEECH RIGHTS,
as
CH> RS>> the military does not discharge officers for claims that they
are
CH> RS>> heterosexual.
CH> > We do not declare (no ask, no tell) 'sexual orientation' in the
US
CH> > military.
CH> Then why have the number of discharges based on sexual orientation gone
CH> up since the institution of this new policy?
Up to a 5 year high, and the highest since the mid-80s! In fact,
there is breaking news RIGHT NOW, that the Servicemembers' Legal
Defense Network that Fort Braggs, North Carolina, is having a
major purge of suspected gays.
CH> RS>> You clearly do not understand the concepts. You are a moron,
CH> RS>> Jim.
CH> > Love the name calling, don't you, Rod. Getting a bit frustrated?
CH> Frustrated with your apparently limitless immunity to logic, reason,
CH> and intelligence, yes.
Hence, the claim "moron" wasn't a name-call, but a statement of
clear and present fact.
CH> JS>> Nah. Equal. They have the same right to marry opposite gender
CH> JS>> partners, even as I have.
CH> RS>> And everyone is denied the right to marry someone of the opposite
CH> RS>> gender.
CH> > HUH!? Where?
CH> If that were the law, then it would most certainly be equal, wouldn't
it?
Yes, it would be. He failed to even see the irony if we banned
opposite-sex marriage. He immediately whined!
CH> Same as saying "Everyone has the right to marry someone of the same
race."
CH> Quite equal, don't you think? You're not saying anything different than
CH> the racists back in the days of anti-miscegnation.
And that some racists still say. 60% of US respondents still
believe interracial marriage is wrong.
CH> RS>> When people could marry within their race, but not
CH> RS>> across races, it was claimed that "everyone could marry someone
CH> RS>> of the correct race".
CH> > That situation no longer exists. BTW, gender and race are not
the
CH> > same.
CH> They're both immutable characteristics.
They are both characteristics one is born with :)
CH> RS>> What is the political reason to restrict marriage?
CH> > THe definition of marriage.
CH> See the above definition of marriage.
I liked the way he asked me to define marriage, then when he was
so desperate to provide an answer to my question, he said "The
definition of marriage" -- something he's confused over
considering he asked me what marriage was!
CH> JS>> Nah, the fool is the guy who says 'there is no God'.
CH> RS>> The fool is the person who sticks his fingers in his ears, closes
CH> RS>> his eyes, and says "There isn't a truck driving at 100 miles per
CH> RS>> hour at me".
CH> > Nah, the fool is the guy who says 'there is no God'.
CH> No, the fool is the person that says that God is not a Woman, and that
CH> Her name isn't Eris.
Jimson failed to see the truck that is Christopher Hughes,
hurtling toward him at 100 miles per hour :) :)
Rod "...bang!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * ...Pro-life? Then GET ONE and STAY THE FUCK OUT OF MINE!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Re: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 18 Mar 97 21:47:46
EID:4438 2272ade0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e9d02
* On 16-03-97 at 12:49, CHRISTOPHER HUGHES wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "Re: My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
CH> RS>> Further, what of the RELIGIOUS discrimination against those whose
CH> RS>> systems of belief allow same-gender marriages? Where is their
CH> RS>> freedom of religion, so guaranteed under the FIRST AMENDMENT?
CH> > Adn that religion would be?
CH> Unitarianism. Buddhism. United Church. Reformed Jewish. Atheist (not
a
CH> religion, but covered under freedom of relgion as "freedom from religion").
CH> Agnostic (again, not a relgion; see Atheist above).
The Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches, and
a number of other Christian faiths (including UU's) also support
the concept. There's also Wicca, and Humanism (although it is
not a religion, it's a belief system).
Strange. I also listed many religions whose members are
discriminated under the law (read "First Amendment Violation"!!!)
and he failed to respond.
I suspect he won't respond to this either.
Jimson clearly supports the elimination of the First Amendment
rights of any people of faith who aren't *just like him*.
Rod "...so I cc'd it to him!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Rap is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Re: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 18 Mar 97 21:47:48
EID:3b03 2272ade0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e9d04
* On 16-03-97 at 12:49, CHRISTOPHER HUGHES wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "Re: My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
CH> RS>> Further, what of the RELIGIOUS discrimination against those whose
CH> RS>> systems of belief allow same-gender marriages? Where is their
CH> RS>> freedom of religion, so guaranteed under the FIRST AMENDMENT?
CH> > Adn that religion would be?
CH> Unitarianism. Buddhism. United Church. Reformed Jewish. Atheist (not
a
CH> religion, but covered under freedom of relgion as "freedom from religion").
CH> Agnostic (again, not a relgion; see Atheist above).
The Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches, and
a number of other Christian faiths (including UU's) also support
the concept. There's also Wicca, and Humanism (although it is
not a religion, it's a belief system).
Strange. I also listed many religions whose members are
discriminated under the law (read "First Amendment Violation"!!!)
and he failed to respond.
I suspect he won't respond to this either.
Jimson clearly supports the elimination of the First Amendment
rights of any people of faith who aren't *just like him*.
Rod "...so I cc'd it to him!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Rap is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Re: My Summer Weekend
|Date: 18 Mar 97 21:47:50
EID:a902 2272ade0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e9d06
* On 16-03-97 at 12:49, CHRISTOPHER HUGHES wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "Re: My Summer Weekend" in echo Holysmoke:
CH> RS>> Further, what of the RELIGIOUS discrimination against those whose
CH> RS>> systems of belief allow same-gender marriages? Where is their
CH> RS>> freedom of religion, so guaranteed under the FIRST AMENDMENT?
CH> > Adn that religion would be?
CH> Unitarianism. Buddhism. United Church. Reformed Jewish. Atheist (not
a
CH> religion, but covered under freedom of relgion as "freedom from religion").
CH> Agnostic (again, not a relgion; see Atheist above).
The Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches, and
a number of other Christian faiths (including UU's) also support
the concept. There's also Wicca, and Humanism (although it is
not a religion, it's a belief system).
Strange. I also listed many religions whose members are
discriminated under the law (read "First Amendment Violation"!!!)
and he failed to respond.
I suspect he won't respond to this either.
Jimson clearly supports the elimination of the First Amendment
rights of any people of faith who aren't *just like him*.
Rod "...so I cc'd it to him!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Rap is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Re: Book Theft
|Date: 18 Mar 97 21:51:52
EID:d496 2272ae60
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e9df8
* On 16-03-97 at 13:46, CHRISTOPHER HUGHES wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "Re: Book Theft" in echo Holysmoke:
CH> RS>> There are many more ERA states :) California will probably be
CH> RS>> the second state challenged if Hawaii fails.
CH> > It has and so will CA.
CH> Except Hawaii's chances of failing aren't very good. And I think NY
is
CH> the next state to have a case, if I'm not mistaken.
Announced yesterday. Philip and Toshav Storrs are pressing ahead
with their appeal. They are now at NY state appelate court
level, and are only one step away from the NY supreme court level.
Within 12 months, New York will be state number two. The case in
Arizona is expected to recommence on the passage of Hawaii, and
they're also at the trial court stage, but are holding off until
the resolution of Hawaii.
CH> > BTW, are gay marriages recognized in your country? What are you doing
CH> > about it?
CH> Marriages aren't really much more than religious ceremonies in Australia.
CH> At least, off of the top of my head I can't think of anything that Rod
and
CH> I couldn't do as "de facto spouses" that two people with a marriage
licence
CH> could.
You are correct. In virtually every federal law, spouse is automatically
defined under all federal law to be "married spouse", "defacto
heterosexual partner" and "defacto homosexual partner".
CH> The two states aren't 100% identical (my immigration paperwork would
CH> take 2 years, a married partner's takes about three months), but progress
CH> is being made in that direction all the time.
This is now a one-year cohabitation period to be proven, not two
years cohabiting. Defacto heterosexuals were raised to a one
year proof-of-cohabitation too.
Rod "...just for your info" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Know God, know problems. No God, no problems!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Christopher Hughes
|Sub: Re: Bathroom Staal knows
|Date: 18 Mar 97 21:55:54
EID:031c 2272aee0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e9eea
* On 16-03-97 at 13:49, CHRISTOPHER HUGHES wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "Re: Bathroom Staal knows" in echo Holysmoke:
CH> FR>> No, these things all happened because you shouted it out that
you
CH> FR>> were
CH> FR>> gay. If you had kept it to yourself, these things would not
have
CH> FR>> happened to you, now would they. - Jim Staal
CH> FR>> How about that one, huh? Think your gods are going to
CH> FR>> applaud that bit of hate rhetoric, dear?
CH> RS>> Of course they will. Let's apply it to another area.
CH> RS>> These things happened because you shouted out that you
CH> RS>> were black. If you had kept your negroidism to yourself,
CH> RS>> these things would not have happened to you now, would
CH> RS>> they?
CH> RS>> -- Idiot Jimson logic, as applied racially.
CH> > This argument is an insult to blacks everywhere.
CH> Just your argument, when you made it above, was an insult to homosexuals
CH> everywhere. You obviously fail to understand.
Obviously!
CH> How about if we changed it thus:
CH> These things happened because you shouted out that you were Jewish.
CH> If you had kept your Judaism to yourself, these things would not
CH> have happened to you now, would they?
CH> -- Jimson Staal Paraphrase, applied religiously.
CH> That probably sounded better in the original German, though,
CH> didn't it, Jim?
"Seig Heil", Christopher, Jimson would be a Nazi! :)
Maybe one of his relatives may have hoisted Jesus up on the
cross, saying the exact same words!
Now, to apply them to Jimson himself...
These things happened because you shouted out that you were Christian.
If you had kept your Christianity to yourself, these things would not
have happened to you now, would they?
-- Jim Staal, if he were into persecuting Christians.
Rod "...maybe we could apply it to Christians?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * 1-900-666-0666: Live beasts, one-on-one-pacts, call now!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: Re: Freedom Of Choice
|Date: 18 Mar 97 21:56:56
EID:340c 2272af00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332e9f28
* On 15-03-97 at 10:48, BECKE BOYER wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "RE: FREEDOM OF CHOICE" in echo Holysmoke:
BB> KY> I would think gays would want to switch because homosexuality is
BB> KY> unnatural, and even the positions at least with male homosexual
sex,
BB> KY> must be kind of awkward. Besides, you seem to think that gays
are
BB> KY> persecuted against. And who wants that?
BB> No more awkward than heterosexual sex, Jelly. Or do you think oral and
anal
BB> sex between heterosexuals is unnatural as well?
Now don't be unfair, Becke. You'll give him a boner if you talk
like that. And then he'll be really in denial :) :)
Rod "...ho ho ho!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Save the whales. Collect the whole set!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Kenny's CONTRADICTION!
|Date: 18 Mar 97 22:01:58
EID:f096 2272b020
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332ea056
* On 14-03-97 at 12:24, KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Kenny's CONTRADICTION!" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> First Ken said:
KY> Gays will go to Hell if they are not saved, and if you are gay, you
KY> cannot be saved.
RS> Then he says:
KY> Gay people do have a chance. But that chance is by getting
KY> saved, and once saved, they will no longer be gay.
RS> He now claims GAYS CAN BE SAVED... That they DO have a chance.
KY> Meaning, that as a gay, one cannot get saved, for once they get
KY> saved their homosexual tendencies will be gone.
KW> And when they slip back into homosexual tendencies? Does that mean
that
KW> they are unsaved? Then they get saved again, and unsaved, and saved,
KW> and unsaved--are we talking about a religion here or a yoyo?
A yoyo. They've been yoyoing between truth and dogma for weeks
on this issue, Katherine :) :)
Rod "...but that's what you get when people like Kenny have no
conviction in their faith, Katherine :) :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Hey, Rocky, watch me pull a saviour out of this virgin!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy 02
|Date: 18 Mar 97 22:09:00
EID:9e0d 2272b120
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332ea1fc
* On 14-03-97 at 12:24, KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Driving Mr. Daisy" in echo Holysmoke:
KW> What on earth are you interpreting as 'wanting superior rights'?
KW> Are they asking for any thing that straight people don't enjoy
KW> as a matter of course?
Why, they want the special and superior right to marry, have a
family, build a home, pay taxes, watch television with their
kitty cat...
That's what Christopher and I dream of.
Of course, this is a huge threat to the United States,
apparently, that it requires the wasting of legislative hours in
dozens of legislatures across the US that simple matters like
insurance reform, education reform in your schools, crime control
measures, and other important issues are being shoved aside.
Just look at Hawaii! Insurance reform, tuition charges,
stimulating their dying economy and spiralling crime has taken
second seat to legislatures tying up (now) two months of
legislative time -- with neither house of their legislature
agreeing.
KW> KY>Again, I did not say one should hide his mate, but
KW> KY>rather, just not make it an issue with everyone.
KW> If you don't make it an issue, then why is it an issue?
If Ken never made it an issue, but granted the rights we demand
that we are denied, there would be no issue.
He demands that gays shut up, so that there is no issue.
It is tantamount to asking Rosa Parks to sit down and shut up.
Rod "...because she already 'has the right to travel on the bus'"
Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * The foolish and dead alone never change their opinion
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
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SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: Re: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 18 Mar 97 22:10:02
EID:f974 2272b140
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332ea23a
* On 14-03-97 at 10:03, KEN WIENS wrote to ROD SWIFT,
on the topic of "Re: Driving Mr. Daisy" in echo Holysmoke:
KW> All I am saying is those who practice homosexual sex
KW> as a lifestyle will be separated eternally from God
KW> unless they repent and live as the Lord states
KW> everyone should live in the Bible.
Question. How does your bible determine the difference between a
female anal sphincter and a male anal sphincter? Tightness?
Why does your God give such great relevance to the gender of the
owner of such sphincters, given that heterosexuals and
homosexuals practice anal sex quite commonly.
Rod "...just wondering!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus Christ Super Fraud. The Musical!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 18 Mar 97 22:11:04
EID:571a 2272b160
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332ea278
* On 14-03-97 at 20:26, MARTIN GOLDBERG wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
MG> KY> Nope. I was misunderstood. All I was saying was that while they
MG> KY> are gay, they cannot become Christian. But once they accept
MG> KY> Christ as their savior, all homosexuality is gone.
MG> We've had a number of gay men here that tell us that they
MG> are as xtian as the next guy. Who decides who is xtian? You?
No. Jim does. :) :) If you're a terrorist and Christian,
you're not a Christian. Ergo, if you're gay and Christian,
you're not a Christian too! :) :)
Rod "...but what else could we expect from the ones who would
claim that no one else is Christian except them?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Without fools there would be no wisdom
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Marty Liepzig
|Sub: Found Christians on the
|Date: 18 Mar 97 22:14:06
EID:e098 2272b1c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332ea32e
* On 09-03-97 at 06:29, MARTY LEIPZIG wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Found Christians on the W" in echo Holysmoke:
ML> KY> Hmm.. How do so many non-Christians know so much about Christianity?
ML> KY> Answer: You don't. Otherwise, you would realize that hatred would
be
ML> KY> going against Christian beliefs.
ML> Righto, Jelly.
I agree, Marty. Let's apply Ken's words to his own arguments
about gays...
NOT-KY> Hmm.. How do so many Christians know so much about gays?
NOT-KY> Answer: They don't.
Ironic, is it not, that they claim to know everything about every
other group they condemn -- better than the people they
condemn... Then when the boot is on the other foot, and we claim
to know about the Christians' crimes -- they whine!
Rod "...he's showing hypocrisy, that Ken Young!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Smoke me a kipper skipper, I'll be back for breakfast
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 62 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 2401/0 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25
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PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: Cracker Barrel Boycot
|Date: 18 Mar 97 22:16:08
EID:49af 2272b200
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332ea3a8
* On 13-03-97 at 16:56, ROGER HUNTER wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT" in echo Holysmoke:
RH> KY> Nope. I was misunderstood. All I was saying was that while they
are
RH> KY> gay, they cannot become Christian. But once they accept Christ
as
RH> KY> their savior, all homosexuality is gone.
RH> All I was saying was that while they are black, they cannot become
RH> Christian. But once they accept Christ as their savior, all blackness
RH> is gone.
RH> Makes about as much sense as what you said, nitwit.
It is an exact replica of his theory, as applied in another area.
It is accurate.
Rod "...and that's why he will protest!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * When in trouble or in doubt, run around, scream & shout!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 62 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 2401/0 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 18 Mar 97 22:17:10
EID:eef7 2272b220
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332ea3e6
* On 13-03-97 at 17:07, ROGER HUNTER wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "DRIVING MR. DAISY" in echo Holysmoke:
RH> KY> Interesting points, but the main difference would be that the color
of
RH> KY> your skin and what sex you are isn't your lifestyle. And it most
RH> KY> certainly isn't something you could have helped, as people were
born
RH> KY> that way.
RH> Oh, haven't you heard? Homosexuals are born that way, too.
RH> Check with Rod if you don't believe me. He has references.
RH> You just have myths.
RH> You are myth-informed .
He doesn't want to read them. He only wants to stick fingers in
ears, and scream out "IS NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!"
Rod "...yes, he has myths!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Easter is cancelled this year. They've found the body.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 62 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 2401/0 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Becke Boyer
|Sub: Re: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 18 Mar 97 22:21:12
EID:f89d 2272b2a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332ea4d8
* On 15-03-97 at 10:48, BECKE BOYER wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "RE: DRIVING MR. DAISY" in echo Holysmoke:
BB> RC>> I have no idea what you mean. Could you elaborate? What kind of
BB> RC>> "scene" do you mean?
BB> KY> Check out the gay marches or rallies that have been shown on the
news,
BB> KY> and you will get an idea what I mean. You must admit, some do get
a bit
BB> KY> confrontational about it.
BB> The same could be said for your right wing Christian organizations.
BB> Apply the principle you stated above to rabid pro-lifers and
BB> anti-porn activists.
And the heterosexual supremacists in their "anti-gay-marriage"
protests, and those sick, perverted displays of Christians
*advertising* their chosen lifestyle -- one is coming up called
"Easter", where they celebrate the pinnacle of their
deathcultism! :)
Rod "...praise the dead homo on a stick!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Never attribute to malice that which stupidity explains
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 62 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 2401/0 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Book Theft
|Date: 18 Mar 97 22:29:14
EID:131c 2272b3a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332ea6ba
* On 14-03-97 at 12:16, JIM STAAL wrote to LYNDA BUSTILLOZ,
on the topic of "Book Theft" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> LB> Yes, many churches will not want to perform them...and they have
the
JS> LB> right to do so, just as they can deny the marriage rite to anyone
they
JS> LB> choose now. But since marriage is not only a religious ceremony,
but a
JS> LB> legal contract, then if you are going to take issue with it on
a legal
JS> LB> basis, you need to offer some secular reason why.
JS> Why jthe beef with me? A local gay teacher (Byron Center, MI) was
JS> 'married' in some local, liberal, mainstream denomination church.
JS> Wasn't recognized legally, of course (and when he told his students
JS> about it all h*ll broke loose). BTW, that was less than a year ago.
the
JS> guy is now dead.
Ah, so you do keep up with events. You are describing the
private life of Gerry Crane, which, if you remember your facts
correctly, started when the Byron Centre school board tried to
terminate him for being gay.
He chose to exercise his religious right to get married before
his church. The school board sought to punish him. That's a
FIRST AMENDMENT violation.
How would you like it if someone wanted to sack you because of
your religion?
JS> LB> They need not get
JS> LB> married in YOUR church, or any church at all (altho there are those
JS> LB> who would gladly let them), as they could marry through a justice
of
JS> LB> the peace.
JS> Just the opposite is true. They cannot marry through a justice of the
JS> peace. Yourj problem is with the law, not me.
The problem is that we wish this law to be changed. You clearly
said in another post (to my partner) that you hope it doesn't
change "for a very long time".
You said to my partner:
___---------------------------------------------------------------------------
JS> Well, then, I guess secular law had better change it's definition of
JS> what marriage consists of, right (according to you). Until it does (and
JS> I hope it is a very long long time), live with it, buddy.
___---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lynda was claiming that, on extension of civil marriage rights,
we would be able to easily marry in any number of churches AND in
every JP office.
But you, being a cruel Christian, speak out both sides of your mouth.
You claim gays have rights, then deny that they should (as above).
JS> LB> Remember that clergy do not define what is marriage....the state
does.
JS> Correct. So take it up with them.
Why should we not take it up with you, considering your vocal
opposition to changing the secular, civil law...?
You said to my partner:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JS> Well, then, I guess secular law had better change it's definition of
JS> what marriage consists of, right (according to you). Until it does (and
JS> I hope it is a very long long time), live with it, buddy.
___---------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are the one actively resisting any change in the law to allow
EQUALITY to exist.
Rod "...you're really such an idiot to shove the blame back on
government, when it is your church brothers that are lobbying the
opposite to us!" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Today's topic: Name alternatives to eternal nothingness
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 62 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 2401/0 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: Book Theft
|Date: 18 Mar 97 22:29:16
EID:6672 2272b3a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332ea6bc
* On 14-03-97 at 12:16, JIM STAAL wrote to LYNDA BUSTILLOZ,
on the topic of "Book Theft" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> LB> Yes, many churches will not want to perform them...and they have
the
JS> LB> right to do so, just as they can deny the marriage rite to anyone
they
JS> LB> choose now. But since marriage is not only a religious ceremony,
but a
JS> LB> legal contract, then if you are going to take issue with it on
a legal
JS> LB> basis, you need to offer some secular reason why.
JS> Why jthe beef with me? A local gay teacher (Byron Center, MI) was
JS> 'married' in some local, liberal, mainstream denomination church.
JS> Wasn't recognized legally, of course (and when he told his students
JS> about it all h*ll broke loose). BTW, that was less than a year ago.
the
JS> guy is now dead.
Ah, so you do keep up with events. You are describing the
private life of Gerry Crane, which, if you remember your facts
correctly, started when the Byron Centre school board tried to
terminate him for being gay.
He chose to exercise his religious right to get married before
his church. The school board sought to punish him. That's a
FIRST AMENDMENT violation.
How would you like it if someone wanted to sack you because of
your religion?
JS> LB> They need not get
JS> LB> married in YOUR church, or any church at all (altho there are those
JS> LB> who would gladly let them), as they could marry through a justice
of
JS> LB> the peace.
JS> Just the opposite is true. They cannot marry through a justice of the
JS> peace. Yourj problem is with the law, not me.
The problem is that we wish this law to be changed. You clearly
said in another post (to my partner) that you hope it doesn't
change "for a very long time".
You said to my partner:
___---------------------------------------------------------------------------
JS> Well, then, I guess secular law had better change it's definition of
JS> what marriage consists of, right (according to you). Until it does (and
JS> I hope it is a very long long time), live with it, buddy.
___---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lynda was claiming that, on extension of civil marriage rights,
we would be able to easily marry in any number of churches AND in
every JP office.
But you, being a cruel Christian, speak out both sides of your mouth.
You claim gays have rights, then deny that they should (as above).
JS> LB> Remember that clergy do not define what is marriage....the state
does.
JS> Correct. So take it up with them.
Why should we not take it up with you, considering your vocal
opposition to changing the secular, civil law...?
You said to my partner:
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
JS> Well, then, I guess secular law had better change it's definition of
JS> what marriage consists of, right (according to you). Until it does (and
JS> I hope it is a very long long time), live with it, buddy.
___---------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are the one actively resisting any change in the law to allow
EQUALITY to exist.
Rod "...you're really such an idiot to shove the blame back on
government, when it is your church brothers that are lobbying the
opposite to us!" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Today's topic: Name alternatives to eternal nothingness
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 62 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 2401/0 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: He Does It Again!
|Date: 18 Mar 97 22:32:18
EID:c7e0 2272b400
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332ea772
* On 14-03-97 at 12:24, KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "He Does It Again!" in echo Holysmoke:
KW> KY>KY>No, I am pretty sure sex with a supernatural being is forbidden.
KW> KY> KW> Whoops! Some one should have warned Mary about that!
KW> KY>Hmm.. And when did that happen? What made the virgin
KW> KY>birth so miraculous was
KW> KY>that she was in fact, a virgin.
KW> Ah! A supposedly parthenogenetic birth. Only one problem with that--if
KW> it had been so, Jesus would have been a girl.
Ahh.. Parthenogenic fertilisation and birth! Like those Gay
Lizards that Ken Young has claimed do not exist in nature! :)
Rod "....hehehehe :)" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Clean mind, clean body. Take your pick.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 62 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 2401/0 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: Cracker Barrel boycott
|Date: 18 Mar 97 22:33:20
EID:282b 2272b420
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332ea7b0
* On 16-03-97 at 07:12, MARILYN BURGE wrote to KAREN DAVIS,
on the topic of "Cracker Barrel boycott" in echo Holysmoke:
MB> KY> Gays will go to Hell if they are not saved, and if you are gay,
you
MB> KY> cannot be saved.
MB> KY> Now, the difference is simply the difference between the person
and
MB> KY> one's actions. Just because I am against what a person does, does
not
MB> KY> mean I am against that person.
MB> KD> Why is that one sin so horrible that it is a barrier to salvation?
I
MB> KD> don't know of too many others that are.
MB> Once again, Jelly doens't know his bible (big surprise, I'll bet).
MB> The bible says they only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the
MB> Holy Spirit. All others are forgivable.
Ironic that he claims that I should take a bible course! :) :)
It's true. Christians fear an atheist with a bible!
Rod "...Weiner Wiens is the same" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Nuke a godless homeless commie gay baby whale for Christ
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 62 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 2401/0 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Shame on the Christians!
|Date: 18 Mar 97 22:38:22
EID:6363 2272b4c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332ea8de
* On 14-03-97 at 19:58, MARTIN GOLDBERG wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Driving Mr. Daisy" in echo Holysmoke:
MG> KD>> Because straights already have rights.
MG> KY> Yes, and so do gays.
MG> Better ask some of your fellow xtians about that.
No. Let's give him a blast here. Let's start with this one.
This is the story about Karen Thompson, and her 7 year battle to
regain custody and control over her life-partner's life after a
tragic car accident.
If Karen were able to marry Sharon Kowalski, the couple would
never have been subjected to years of litigation over who
controlled Sharon's affairs. Sharon would have automatically
had Karen considered her closest next-of-kin.
Because they could not, they were destined to be treated as
strangers to each other in the eyes of the law. It is only after
all of Sharon Kowalski's legal next-of-kin not wanting to take
care of her that "strangers" were given the chance to apply to
care for Sharon.
Christian love caused 7 years of misery for two women -- one
distraught from being unable to see her disabled lover, the other
distraught from being denied access to her lover *and* being
crippled tragically.
Christians should hang their head in shame if they claim gays are
equal to straights.
___---------------------------------------------------------------
[From Boston Globe, 18 December 1991, without permission]
Minnesotan wins guardianship
of lesbian lover after 7-year fight
St. Paul -- For seven years, Karen Thompson fought for the
right to care for her lesbian lover, who had been left a
quadraplegic by an auto accident. Her lover's parents and a
judge refused. But yesterday, a state appeals court said
yes.
"There aren't words to express the hell the system has put
us through," Thompson said after the Minnesota Court of
Appeals ruled she was most qualified to act a Sharon
Kowalski's guardian.
The ruling was hailed as a landmark by gay-rights activists.
Kowalski, 35, a former physical education teacher, suffered
brain damage and was forced to use a wheelchair after the
accident in 1983. Over Thompson's objections, Kowalski's
father, Donald Kowalski, won guardianship in 1984 and ended
Thompson's right to visit.
Thompson, a professor at St. Cloud State University,
continued her court battle. Kowalski resigned last year as
his daughter's guardian, citing medical problems of his own.
A judge appointed Sharon Kowalski's high school track
coach, Karen Tomberlin, as the new guardian.
The decision was overturned by the ruling yesterday, which
said Sharon Kowalski had indicated that she wanted to be
with Thompson and the Thompson is the only person willing or
able to care for Kowalski outside an institution.
[There is a picture of Karen Thompson with the caption
"Karen Thompson, holding a news conference in St. Paul
yesterday after her victory, describes the battle to become
guardian of her lover."]
___---------------------------------------------------------------
* OLX 2.1 TD * Bugger me with a fish fork!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 62 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 2401/0 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: All
|Sub: Shame on the Christians!
|Date: 18 Mar 97 22:38:24
EID:fb03 2272b4c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332ea8e0
* On 14-03-97 at 19:58, MARTIN GOLDBERG wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Driving Mr. Daisy" in echo Holysmoke:
MG> KD>> Because straights already have rights.
MG> KY> Yes, and so do gays.
MG> Better ask some of your fellow xtians about that.
No. Let's give him a blast here. Let's start with this one.
This is the story about Karen Thompson, and her 7 year battle to
regain custody and control over her life-partner's life after a
tragic car accident.
If Karen were able to marry Sharon Kowalski, the couple would
never have been subjected to years of litigation over who
controlled Sharon's affairs. Sharon would have automatically
had Karen considered her closest next-of-kin.
Because they could not, they were destined to be treated as
strangers to each other in the eyes of the law. It is only after
all of Sharon Kowalski's legal next-of-kin not wanting to take
care of her that "strangers" were given the chance to apply to
care for Sharon.
Christian love caused 7 years of misery for two women -- one
distraught from being unable to see her disabled lover, the other
distraught from being denied access to her lover *and* being
crippled tragically.
Christians should hang their head in shame if they claim gays are
equal to straights.
___---------------------------------------------------------------
[From Boston Globe, 18 December 1991, without permission]
Minnesotan wins guardianship
of lesbian lover after 7-year fight
St. Paul -- For seven years, Karen Thompson fought for the
right to care for her lesbian lover, who had been left a
quadraplegic by an auto accident. Her lover's parents and a
judge refused. But yesterday, a state appeals court said
yes.
"There aren't words to express the hell the system has put
us through," Thompson said after the Minnesota Court of
Appeals ruled she was most qualified to act a Sharon
Kowalski's guardian.
The ruling was hailed as a landmark by gay-rights activists.
Kowalski, 35, a former physical education teacher, suffered
brain damage and was forced to use a wheelchair after the
accident in 1983. Over Thompson's objections, Kowalski's
father, Donald Kowalski, won guardianship in 1984 and ended
Thompson's right to visit.
Thompson, a professor at St. Cloud State University,
continued her court battle. Kowalski resigned last year as
his daughter's guardian, citing medical problems of his own.
A judge appointed Sharon Kowalski's high school track
coach, Karen Tomberlin, as the new guardian.
The decision was overturned by the ruling yesterday, which
said Sharon Kowalski had indicated that she wanted to be
with Thompson and the Thompson is the only person willing or
able to care for Kowalski outside an institution.
[There is a picture of Karen Thompson with the caption
"Karen Thompson, holding a news conference in St. Paul
yesterday after her victory, describes the battle to become
guardian of her lover."]
___---------------------------------------------------------------
* OLX 2.1 TD * Bugger me with a fish fork!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
SEEN-BY: 12/12 24/888 102/2 943 106/2000 109/7 112/101 114/262 271 124/1
SEEN-BY: 124/1208 2342 5125 8001 9000 9005 130/1 1008 133/2 140/3 143/1
SEEN-BY: 147/34 2021 167/166 170/400 202/777 1207 213/213 218/890 907
SEEN-BY: 270/101 275/429 280/1 169 282/1 62 283/120 284/29 290/14 300/603
SEEN-BY: 310/666 322/739 323/107 324/278 343/600 346/250 352/3 356/18 369/32
SEEN-BY: 371/42 377/86 380/64 381/900 382/92 388/1 396/1 2 690/660 730/2
SEEN-BY: 732/10 2401/0 2442/0 3603/420 3606/10 3612/41 3615/50 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3632/21 3651/9 3652/1 3667/1
PATH: 690/660 396/1 124/1 9005
|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Young
|Sub: Shame on the Christians!
|Date: 18 Mar 97 22:38:26
EID:a6ae 2272b4c0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332ea8e2
* On 14-03-97 at 19:58, MARTIN GOLDBERG wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Driving Mr. Daisy" in echo Holysmoke:
MG> KD>> Because straights already have rights.
MG> KY> Yes, and so do gays.
MG> Better ask some of your fellow xtians about that.
No. Let's give him a blast here. Let's start with this one.
This is the story about Karen Thompson, and her 7 year battle to
regain custody and control over her life-partner's life after a
tragic car accident.
If Karen were able to marry Sharon Kowalski, the couple would
never have been subjected to years of litigation over who
controlled Sharon's affairs. Sharon would have automatically
had Karen considered her closest next-of-kin.
Because they could not, they were destined to be treated as
strangers to each other in the eyes of the law. It is only after
all of Sharon Kowalski's legal next-of-kin not wanting to take
care of her that "strangers" were given the chance to apply to
care for Sharon.
Christian love caused 7 years of misery for two women -- one
distraught from being unable to see her disabled lover, the other
distraught from being denied access to her lover *and* being
crippled tragically.
Christians should hang their head in shame if they claim gays are
equal to straights.
___---------------------------------------------------------------
[From Boston Globe, 18 December 1991, without permission]
Minnesotan wins guardianship
of lesbian lover after 7-year fight
St. Paul -- For seven years, Karen Thompson fought for the
right to care for her lesbian lover, who had been left a
quadraplegic by an auto accident. Her lover's parents and a
judge refused. But yesterday, a state appeals court said
yes.
"There aren't words to express the hell the system has put
us through," Thompson said after the Minnesota Court of
Appeals ruled she was most qualified to act a Sharon
Kowalski's guardian.
The ruling was hailed as a landmark by gay-rights activists.
Kowalski, 35, a former physical education teacher, suffered
brain damage and was forced to use a wheelchair after the
accident in 1983. Over Thompson's objections, Kowalski's
father, Donald Kowalski, won guardianship in 1984 and ended
Thompson's right to visit.
Thompson, a professor at St. Cloud State University,
continued her court battle. Kowalski resigned last year as
his daughter's guardian, citing medical problems of his own.
A judge appointed Sharon Kowalski's high school track
coach, Karen Tomberlin, as the new guardian.
The decision was overturned by the ruling yesterday, which
said Sharon Kowalski had indicated that she wanted to be
with Thompson and the Thompson is the only person willing or
able to care for Kowalski outside an institution.
[There is a picture of Karen Thompson with the caption
"Karen Thompson, holding a news conference in St. Paul
yesterday after her victory, describes the battle to become
guardian of her lover."]
___---------------------------------------------------------------
* OLX 2.1 TD * Bugger me with a fish fork!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Driving Mr. Daisy
|Date: 18 Mar 97 22:42:28
EID:0b5c 2272b540
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332ea9d4
* On 14-03-97 at 20:28, MARTIN GOLDBERG wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Driving Mr. Daisy" in echo Holysmoke:
MG> KY> Interesting points, but the main difference would be that the
MG> KY> color of your skin and what sex you are isn't your lifestyle.
MG> KY> And it most certainly isn't something you could have helped, as
MG> KY> people were born that way.
MG> Neither does sexual preference make your lifestyle. There
MG> is no "gay lifestyle", Jelly.
MG> Live with it.
I must correct you, Martin. There is a gay lifestyle. It is the
life that is served up to gays by Christian intolerance. It's a
life of *beatings*, *killings*, *persecution*, *police
harassment*, *imprisonment*, *job discrimination*, *housing
discrimination*, etc, etc, etc.
The only gay lifestyle is the one that majoritarianism grants
gays. The reason why the "gay lifestyle" is different to anyone
heterosexual's lifestyle is because Christians don't demand the
special *rights* be applied to heterosexuals.
The only special rights that gays have are the special right to
be discriminated against, beaten, killed, and other horrendous
acts.
Rod "...the gay lifestyle is the one constructed by Christians
through discrimination" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Lead me not into temptation. I can find it myself.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Exemplifying examples 1/
|Date: 18 Mar 97 22:43:30
EID:9b1d 2272b560
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332eaa12
* On 15-03-97 at 15:55, MARTIN GOLDBERG wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "Exemplifying examples 1/" in echo Holysmoke:
MG> KY>>find such a thing very sick indeed. But, a majority of
MG> KY>>molesters do appear t be gay.
MG> Evidence for this enormous lie, Jelly.
... will never be presented...
Rod "...as I have guessed so many times before" Swift :(
* OLX 2.1 TD * Today's topic: Life is good if you're happy. Refute.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 18 Mar 97 22:45:32
EID:59fd 2272b5a0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332eaa8c
* On 12-03-97 at 06:33, RICHARD SMITH wrote to KEN WHINES,
on the topic of "Exemplifying examples" in echo Holysmoke:
RS> kw> Wanting to be treated like normal people would be
RS> kw> part of it.
RS> Why shouldn't gays want to be treated like everyone else?
Because, Richard, Ken wants to give heterosexuals special rights
-- the special rights to beat gays, kill gays, discriminate
against gays.
How dare gays demand the equal right to be NOT subjected to the
above terrors?
RS> kw> My comment is highly relevant and as usual goes
RS> kw> right over your head. The rest of your message
RS> kw> is not worth responding to.
RS> Run away, Ken, run away . . .
He runs so eloquently. Doesn't have that sissy, prancy gate at
all that we've come to know and love from most homophobic,
closeted bigots.
Rod "...thay, do you know why Ken lithsps so mutch?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * ...Pro-life? Then GET ONE and STAY THE FUCK OUT OF MINE!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Another good Quote!
|Date: 18 Mar 97 22:47:34
EID:8321 2272b5e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332eab06
* On 13-03-97 at 16:56, ROGER HUNTER wrote to KEN YOUNG,
on the topic of "CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT" in echo Holysmoke:
RH> KY> Nope. I was misunderstood. All I was saying was that while they
are
RH> KY> gay, they cannot become Christian. But once they accept Christ
as
RH> KY> their savior, all homosexuality is gone.
RH> All I was saying was that while they are black, they cannot become
RH> Christian. But once they accept Christ as their savior, all blackness
RH> is gone.
RH> Makes about as much sense as what you said, nitwit.
For the quote file :)
Rod
* OLX 2.1 TD * Satanic: Anything a fundie Christian doesn't like
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Exemplifying examples
|Date: 18 Mar 97 22:50:36
EID:262d 2272b640
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332eabbc
* On 15-03-97 at 15:52, ED MILLS wrote to FREDRIC RICE,
on the topic of "Exemplifying examples" in echo Holysmoke:
EM> FR> Maybe that explains it! They're a crop of creamed fundies!
EM> FR> I think you've stumbled onto something here. (Don't step in it!)
EM> Brother Swaggart introduced Cream of Fundy some time ago,
EM> didn't he?
But only into the children's market :)
Rod "...praise Jesus!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Windows isn't crippleware. It's functionally-challenged.
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Re: Fundy Frolics 2/3
|Date: 18 Mar 97 22:55:38
EID:4401 2272b6e0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332eacea
* On 16-03-97 at 06:26, J.J. HITT wrote to JASON HARMON,
on the topic of "Re: Fundy Frolics 2/3" in echo Holysmoke:
JH> On Mar 07 15:34 97, Jason Harmon of 1:3652/1 wrote:
JH> NS>> Now that's frightning, it's like going back to "our" dark
JH> NS>> ages, but the KKK don't still exist do they?
JH> JH> Sure does. In fact, a "recruitment center" is opening right
JH> JH> in my state. Right above a place that wants to be a KKK
JH> JH> museum and memorabilia shop.
JH> The last time I checked with the SPLC (Southern Poverty Law
JH> Center) there were over 200 opperating Klan organizations
JH> in the US.
There is a report attached here for more details of SPLC's
research. 858 patriot groups, 380 militias. No number of Klan
groups mentioned, but it would not be surprising that the figures
have not changed from over 200.
___-------------------------------------------------------------------
03:02 PM ET 03/04/97
US report says violent extremists groups on rise
MONTGOMERY, Ala (Reuter) - Violent extremist groups have
grown in number and vehemence since the Oklahoma City bombing
two years ago, an organization that monitors hate crime activity
in the United States warned Tuesday.
The Klanwatch Project of the Southern Poverty Law Center
said at least 858 so-called Patriot groups were active in the 50
U.S. states last year, including 380 armed militias. The figures
represented a six percent rise in the number of groups
identified by Klanwatch in 1994 and 1995.
The Montgomery-based organization, which distributes
statistics on hate-crime activity to U.S. law enforcement, said
101 militias and their support groups had ties to white
supremacist and anti-Semitic organizations.
In a report entitled ``Two Years After: The Patriot Movement
Since Oklahoma City,'' Klanwatch warned that extremists have
begun to develop a nationwide intelligence network and have
increased their use of phony financial claims against public
officials in a practice known as ``paper terrorism.''
A coalition of militias spanning 14 states distributed
intelligence-gathering guidelines to members in February, the
report said. Recommended activities ranged from scrutinizing
news reports to persuading utility workers to divulge
information on their employers' security procedures.
Meanwhile false liens and fabricated financial statements
have been filed against selected victims in the public sector by
renegade judicial bodies known as ``common-law courts.'' In 1996
about 112 such self-proclaimed courts were operating in 34
states.
``The Patriot movement is firmly entrenched in this
country,'' Klanwatch director Joe Roy said.
``A winnowing process has taken place since Oklahoma City.
While casual adherents have abandoned the cause, new groups have
been formed to take their place. What remains are true believers
who are isolated from the political mainstream and committed to
an extreme anti-government agenda.''
Federal investigators suspect a cell of rightwing extremists
was behind recent bombings of an abortion clinic and a gay and
lesbian nightclub in Atlanta. The incidents injured about a
dozen people.
There have been no arrests in either bombing. Last July's
Centennial Olympic Park bombing, which left two dead and more
than 100 injured in downtown Atlanta during the Summer Games,
also remained unsolved.
The Klanwatch report warned of more violence in the future,
including the possibility of biochemical attacks, and pointed to
a declining percentage of American voters as evidence that
Patriot groups would continue to have large pools of alienated
citizens from which to recruit new members.
^REUTER@
___-------------------------------------------------------------------
* OLX 2.1 TD * Commit the oldest sins the newest kind of ways
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jason Harmon
|Sub: Re: Ha!
|Date: 18 Mar 97 22:56:40
EID:7071 2272b700
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332ead28
* On 15-03-97 at 13:22, JASON HARMON wrote to JIM STAAL,
on the topic of "Re: Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:
JH> MG> Who or whatever is a true christian is a matter of great debate.
JH> JS> I agree. Only God really knows.
JH> Hmm. That never seems to stop you from calling other people Not
JH> True Christians.
Like all those Christian militants who are practicing domestic
Christian terrorism in the USA :)
Rod "...ho ho ho" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * If Jesus is Jewish, why does he have a Spanish name?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Jim Is Debunked!!!!!
|Date: 18 Mar 97 23:09:42
EID:5e0d 2272b920
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332eb036
* On 14-03-97 at 12:11, JIM STAAL wrote to DAN CEPPA,
on the topic of "Staal stinks a little low" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> her lesbian mother and her lover and given to the maternal grandmother
JS> JS> after the little girl testified that her mother and her love had
JS> JS> 'licked her citty-cat'?
JS> DC> You are an even bigger piece of shit, Staal.
JS> You just hate the truth, don't you, Dan...
Truth requires evidence. You not only provided none, Jim, but actually
LIED! You got the gender of the child wrong. Secondly, the testimony
presented showed that "licked her citty-cat" was NOT the case...
According to the mother, the relationship involves hugging and
kissing, patting "on the bottom," sleeping in the same bed,
"fondling," and "oral sex." The mother testified that she loves
Wade and that they "have a lifetime commitment."
At the time of the juvenile court hearing, the mother, the
child, and Wade were living in a two-bedroom apartment with
"Evelyn," another lesbian. "At one time," the child's bed was in
the room where the mother and Wade slept, having "sex in the same
bed." At one point in her testimony, however, when asked "how
many times did you do it when the child was sleeping in the same
bedroom," the mother responded, "None." She said that she and
Wade displayed other signs of affection "in front of" the child.
It clearly states that although the child's bed was in their
bedroom where their bed was, they slept and had sex together,
they never had sex together either while the child was sleeping
in the same bedroom nor in front of the child outside the bedroom.
So much for the boy being a girl, and claiming "kitty lick".
You are hereby debunked as completely as I debunk Laurie when he
claims judicial proceedings say something, and in fact, the opposite
is found.
___-------------------------------------------------------------------
Present: All the Justices
PAMELA KAY BOTTOMS OPINION BY JUSTICE A. CHRISTIAN COMPTON
v. Record No. 941166 April 21, 1995
SHARON LYNNE BOTTOMS
FROM THE COURT OF APPEALS OF VIRGINIA
This is a child custody dispute between a child's mother and
maternal grandmother. The sole issue is whether the Court of
Appeals erred in deciding that the child's best interests would
be served by awarding custody to the mother. We conclude that
the Court of Appeals erred, and reverse.
[...]
During May 1992, ten months before the juvenile court
hearing, 16 months before the trial court hearing, and when her
son was ten months old, the mother met April Wade, a lesbian.
Wade, born in April 1966, had been discharged from the U.S. Army
in 1986. Wade is a "recovering alcoholic."
The mother and Wade "moved in together" in September 1992.
From that time, with the exception of a two-week period, the
mother and Wade have lived in "a lesbian relationship."
According to the mother, the relationship involves hugging and
kissing, patting "on the bottom," sleeping in the same bed,
"fondling," and "oral sex." The mother testified that she loves
Wade and that they "have a lifetime commitment."
At the time of the juvenile court hearing, the mother, the
child, and Wade were living in a two-bedroom apartment with
"Evelyn," another lesbian. "At one time," the child's bed was in
the room where the mother and Wade slept, having "sex in the same
bed." At one point in her testimony, however, when asked "how
many times did you do it when the child was sleeping in the same
bedroom," the mother responded, "None." She said that she and
Wade displayed other signs of affection "in front of" the child.
Wade, employed as a gift shop manager, supports the mother.
The pair lives in an apartment complex in Western Henrico County.
Wade has become "a parent figure" to the child, who calls Wade
"Da Da."
Two months before the petition for custody was filed, the
mother revealed her lesbian relationship to the grandmother.
This disclosure alienated the two.
___-------------------------------------------------------------------
JUSTICE KEENAN, with whom JUSTICE WHITING and JUSTICE LACY join,
dissenting.
This Court has held, as the majority states, that a lesbian
mother is not per se an unfit parent. Doe v. Doe, 222 Va. 736,
748, 284 S.E.2d 799, 806 (1981). Nevertheless, the majority
ignores the trial court's refusal to follow this established law
of the Commonwealth.
The record plainly shows that the trial court made a per se
finding of unfitness based on the mother's homosexual conduct.
The trial court stated:
I will tell you first that the mother's conduct is
illegal. It is a Class 6 felony in the Commonwealth of
Virginia. I will tell you that it is the opinion of
this Court that her conduct is immoral. And it is the
opinion of this Court that the conduct of Sharon
Bottoms renders her an unfit parent.
The trial court added to this statement only by citing two other
factors to support its custody award. These factors were the
"social condemnation" that would "inevitably" affect the child,
and "other evidence of the child being affected or afflicted with
the evidence [sic] which is unrebutted of the cursing, the
evidence of the child standing in the corner."
As the Court of Appeals properly recognized, "adverse
effects of a parent's homosexuality on a child cannot be assumed
without specific proof." Bottoms v. Bottoms, 18 Va. App. 481,
493, 444 S.E.2d 276, 283 (1994); see also Doe, 222 Va. at 746,
284 S.E.2d at 805. Although there is no evidence in this record
showing that the mother's homosexual conduct is harmful to the
child, the majority improperly presumes that its own perception
of societal opinion and the mother's homosexual conduct are
germane to the issue whether the mother is an unfit parent.
Thus, the majority commits the same error as the trial court by
attaching importance to factors not shown by the evidence to have
an adverse effect on the child.
Additionally, I believe that this appeal cannot be resolved
by imposition of final judgment. Since the trial court applied
the wrong rule of law in this custody determination, this case
must be remanded to the trier of fact, pursuant to McEntire v.
Redfearn, 217 Va. 313, 316-17, 227 S.E.2d 741, 744 (1976), for
application of the correct principles of law to all the evidence.
The majority's award of final judgment is doubly
inappropriate under the holding of McEntire, because
approximately 19 months have passed since the last evidentiary
hearing in this case. In McEntire, the trial court had applied
the wrong rule of law, and almost 18 months had passed since the
last evidentiary hearing. This Court held that, based on the
passage of that amount of time, "we are unable at this time
properly to determine the issue of custody from the record before
us. Accordingly, we will remand the case to the circuit court
with direction to hold forthwith another hearing . . . applying
the law in a manner consistent with this opinion." 217 Va. at
317, 227 S.E.2d at 744.
___-------------------------------------------------------------------
* OLX 2.1 TD * Close your mind quick! Something blasphemous may get in!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Jim Is Debunked!!!!!
|Date: 18 Mar 97 23:09:44
EID:1038 2272b920
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332eb038
* On 14-03-97 at 12:11, JIM STAAL wrote to DAN CEPPA,
on the topic of "Staal stinks a little low" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> her lesbian mother and her lover and given to the maternal grandmother
JS> JS> after the little girl testified that her mother and her love had
JS> JS> 'licked her citty-cat'?
JS> DC> You are an even bigger piece of shit, Staal.
JS> You just hate the truth, don't you, Dan...
Truth requires evidence. You not only provided none, Jim, but actually
LIED! You got the gender of the child wrong. Secondly, the testimony
presented showed that "licked her citty-cat" was NOT the case...
According to the mother, the relationship involves hugging and
kissing, patting "on the bottom," sleeping in the same bed,
"fondling," and "oral sex." The mother testified that she loves
Wade and that they "have a lifetime commitment."
At the time of the juvenile court hearing, the mother, the
child, and Wade were living in a two-bedroom apartment with
"Evelyn," another lesbian. "At one time," the child's bed was in
the room where the mother and Wade slept, having "sex in the same
bed." At one point in her testimony, however, when asked "how
many times did you do it when the child was sleeping in the same
bedroom," the mother responded, "None." She said that she and
Wade displayed other signs of affection "in front of" the child.
It clearly states that although the child's bed was in their
bedroom where their bed was, they slept and had sex together,
they never had sex together either while the child was sleeping
in the same bedroom nor in front of the child outside the bedroom.
So much for the boy being a girl, and claiming "kitty lick".
You are hereby debunked as completely as I debunk Laurie when he
claims judicial proceedings say something, and in fact, the opposite
is found.
___-------------------------------------------------------------------
Present: All the Justices
PAMELA KAY BOTTOMS OPINION BY JUSTICE A. CHRISTIAN COMPTON
v. Record No. 941166 April 21, 1995
SHARON LYNNE BOTTOMS
FROM THE COURT OF APPEALS OF VIRGINIA
This is a child custody dispute between a child's mother and
maternal grandmother. The sole issue is whether the Court of
Appeals erred in deciding that the child's best interests would
be served by awarding custody to the mother. We conclude that
the Court of Appeals erred, and reverse.
[...]
During May 1992, ten months before the juvenile court
hearing, 16 months before the trial court hearing, and when her
son was ten months old, the mother met April Wade, a lesbian.
Wade, born in April 1966, had been discharged from the U.S. Army
in 1986. Wade is a "recovering alcoholic."
The mother and Wade "moved in together" in September 1992.
From that time, with the exception of a two-week period, the
mother and Wade have lived in "a lesbian relationship."
According to the mother, the relationship involves hugging and
kissing, patting "on the bottom," sleeping in the same bed,
"fondling," and "oral sex." The mother testified that she loves
Wade and that they "have a lifetime commitment."
At the time of the juvenile court hearing, the mother, the
child, and Wade were living in a two-bedroom apartment with
"Evelyn," another lesbian. "At one time," the child's bed was in
the room where the mother and Wade slept, having "sex in the same
bed." At one point in her testimony, however, when asked "how
many times did you do it when the child was sleeping in the same
bedroom," the mother responded, "None." She said that she and
Wade displayed other signs of affection "in front of" the child.
Wade, employed as a gift shop manager, supports the mother.
The pair lives in an apartment complex in Western Henrico County.
Wade has become "a parent figure" to the child, who calls Wade
"Da Da."
Two months before the petition for custody was filed, the
mother revealed her lesbian relationship to the grandmother.
This disclosure alienated the two.
___-------------------------------------------------------------------
JUSTICE KEENAN, with whom JUSTICE WHITING and JUSTICE LACY join,
dissenting.
This Court has held, as the majority states, that a lesbian
mother is not per se an unfit parent. Doe v. Doe, 222 Va. 736,
748, 284 S.E.2d 799, 806 (1981). Nevertheless, the majority
ignores the trial court's refusal to follow this established law
of the Commonwealth.
The record plainly shows that the trial court made a per se
finding of unfitness based on the mother's homosexual conduct.
The trial court stated:
I will tell you first that the mother's conduct is
illegal. It is a Class 6 felony in the Commonwealth of
Virginia. I will tell you that it is the opinion of
this Court that her conduct is immoral. And it is the
opinion of this Court that the conduct of Sharon
Bottoms renders her an unfit parent.
The trial court added to this statement only by citing two other
factors to support its custody award. These factors were the
"social condemnation" that would "inevitably" affect the child,
and "other evidence of the child being affected or afflicted with
the evidence [sic] which is unrebutted of the cursing, the
evidence of the child standing in the corner."
As the Court of Appeals properly recognized, "adverse
effects of a parent's homosexuality on a child cannot be assumed
without specific proof." Bottoms v. Bottoms, 18 Va. App. 481,
493, 444 S.E.2d 276, 283 (1994); see also Doe, 222 Va. at 746,
284 S.E.2d at 805. Although there is no evidence in this record
showing that the mother's homosexual conduct is harmful to the
child, the majority improperly presumes that its own perception
of societal opinion and the mother's homosexual conduct are
germane to the issue whether the mother is an unfit parent.
Thus, the majority commits the same error as the trial court by
attaching importance to factors not shown by the evidence to have
an adverse effect on the child.
Additionally, I believe that this appeal cannot be resolved
by imposition of final judgment. Since the trial court applied
the wrong rule of law in this custody determination, this case
must be remanded to the trier of fact, pursuant to McEntire v.
Redfearn, 217 Va. 313, 316-17, 227 S.E.2d 741, 744 (1976), for
application of the correct principles of law to all the evidence.
The majority's award of final judgment is doubly
inappropriate under the holding of McEntire, because
approximately 19 months have passed since the last evidentiary
hearing in this case. In McEntire, the trial court had applied
the wrong rule of law, and almost 18 months had passed since the
last evidentiary hearing. This Court held that, based on the
passage of that amount of time, "we are unable at this time
properly to determine the issue of custody from the record before
us. Accordingly, we will remand the case to the circuit court
with direction to hold forthwith another hearing . . . applying
the law in a manner consistent with this opinion." 217 Va. at
317, 227 S.E.2d at 744.
___-------------------------------------------------------------------
* OLX 2.1 TD * Close your mind quick! Something blasphemous may get in!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Book Theft
|Date: 18 Mar 97 23:12:46
EID:131c 2272b980
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332eb0ee
* On 14-03-97 at 12:16, JIM STAAL wrote to LYNDA BUSTILLOZ,
on the topic of "Book Theft" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> LB> Jim...what SECULAR reason is there not to allow a civil marriage?
JS> Beats me.
So we will see you lobbing in Lansing, MI, to overturn the
Christian and their attempts to legislate their morality into
secular civil law when they want to ban something that doesn't
even exist -- same sex marriage?
You'll be demanding to ALLOW same-sex marriage?
JS> LB> Does religion have a place in defining what makes up a civil contract?
JS> In my mind it does, but in the US it shouldn't.
States make marriage laws. Do you believe they should
immediately expand marriage rights to cover gays?
If you don't think the US has the right to have religion
influence secular law, does this mean you support the RESCISSION
of the Defense of Marriage Act?
Rod "...thank you in advance for answering the questions, whether
honestly or dishonestly" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Know God, know problems. No God, no problems!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 18 Mar 97 23:21:48
EID:c45c 2272baa0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332eb30c
* On 14-03-97 at 13:21, JIM STAAL wrote to KEN WIENS,
on the topic of "Oops, Caught Again" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> KW> Do you have an email internet account? We can talk via
JS> KW> email if you do. Mine is at the bottom of all my messages.
JS> KW> Let me know.
JS> Sure: brojimmy@pipeline.com
Please, oh please, can I slobber over your love tryst?
Rod "...and watch your mutual circle jerk?" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Jesus saves, passes to Moses. He shoots. He scores!!!
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Oops, Caught Again
|Date: 18 Mar 97 23:24:50
EID:c45c 2272bb00
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332eb3c2
* On 14-03-97 at 13:31, JIM STAAL wrote to SUE ALEXANDER,
on the topic of "Oops, Caught Again" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> SA> How can you be so sure, then, that 1 million Christian men
can
JS> SA> and will be at that march in DC?
JS> Faith, my dear, faith. :) And if you took the ratio of the avialable
JS> members of previous causes to the numbers who actually showed and the
JS> number iof Christians (alleged or 'true') perhaps we coujld get an
JS> actual estimate of possibility.
Why do you claim there could not have been a million gay march on
Washington?
Sydney, Australia, has 700,000 visitors each year for the Mardi
Gras. Australia has a population of 18,100,000 people.
Extrapolating this figure to 260,000,000 Americans, we get
10,055,249 gays.
Rod "...just for your info!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * If Jesus is Jewish, why does he have a Spanish name?
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: Ha!
|Date: 18 Mar 97 23:26:52
EID:ed89 2272bb40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332eb43c
* On 14-03-97 at 13:43, JIM STAAL wrote to DAN CEPPA,
on the topic of "Ha!" in echo Holysmoke:
JS> JS> b. where above did I make any reference to the _peoples_ of
JS> JS> Vietnam as Rod accused?? Huh?
JS> DC> You have all the intelligence of a truck load of fence post holes.
JS> Why can't you just admit I'm right once?
Oh, I'm willing to admit I baited you to get you to admit you
used "gook". You are right, you never used it for the people's
of Vietnam.
You did, however, use the word for the languages of Vietnam. You
did use it as a racial slur. :)
So, why don't you admit you are *wrong* while you're taking
congratulations for being "right" for one part of a very
deceptive method of getting you to admit you were wrong :)
Rod "...ho ho ho!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Today's topic: Name alternatives to eternal nothingness
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: prophets
|Date: 18 Mar 97 23:29:54
EID:5510 2272bba0
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332eb4f2
* On 13-03-97 at 15:07, KATHERINE WINTERSNIGHT wrote to BRYSON HUGHES,
on the topic of "prophets" in echo Holysmoke:
KW> BH>It isn't insanity!
KW> BH>IT'S THE REAL THING.
KW> You are straight out of the DSM-IV.
He should be straight into the loony bin! :) :)
Rod "...There's a line that leads from DSM-IV to The Ronald
Reagan Institute for... Uh... I forgot!" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Politics: Poly=many, Ticks=blood-sucking parasites
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Ken Wiens
|Sub: Accepting Reality
|Date: 18 Mar 97 23:34:56
EID:ce1f 2272bc40
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332eb620
* On 14-03-97 at 10:17, KEN WIENS wrote to DAN CEPPA,
on the topic of "Accepting Reality" in echo Holysmoke:
KW> DC>How many 12 year old rape victims did you execute during
KW> DC>your sabbatical?
KW> DC>I see you are going to ignore the question and hope it goes
KW> DC>away.
KW> No. I am going to give it the attention it deserves as a
KW> very stupid question for you to ask.
Then:
KW> I prefer the death penalty for any woman who willfully
KW> murders her unborn child except in a case where her own
KW> life is in danger if she doesn't abort.
So it wasn't a silly question -- you would put a 12-year-old girl
to death if she chose to abort a foetus that was the result of a
rape upon her.
You are a sick man.
Rod "...you need to learn" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Necrotelecomnicon: Book of dead phone numbers
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: Cracker Barrel Boycot
|Date: 19 Mar 97 00:17:58
EID:49af 22730220
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332ec036
* On 14-03-97 at 16:17, ROGER HUNTER wrote to DAVID RICE,
on the topic of "CRACKER BARREL BOYCOT" in echo Holysmoke:
RH> DR> The eradication of liberty is not worth such a dear price.
RH> WHAT liberty? Where is it written you have a right to spread a
RH> contagious, incurable fatal illness?
Ah, that's the point. HIV is not very contagious per se, but
merely only infectous.
RH> DR> Measles is very easy to aquire. HIV is damn difficult: one
RH> DR> must work hard, statistically speaking, to aquire the virus
RH> DR> (if HIV is the contributory cause of AIDS).
RH> SO WHAT? It's fatal and I don't care HOW hard it is to catch.
RH> You want to sleep with lepers? It's hard to catch, too.
Then, may I suggest you choose not to sleep with anyone.
Abstinence is a 100% certainty not to spread HIV.
RH> RH> Why shouldn't we punish anyone who knowingly passes
RH> RH> on a fatal illness?
RH> DR> Who said such a person should not be punished?
RH> You did. It was one of the things you were objecting to; criminal
RH> penalties for concealing one's illness.
I object to that. You said "knowingly passes on a fatal
illness", not "conceals one's HIV status".
If a person passes HIV, and knows they were HIV positive before
transmitting HIV, and did it *maliciously* rather than by
accident, I am all for punishment.
Of course, criminalising intent to spread disease by requiring
someone to *know* they have HIV will lead to people not getting
tested.
Rod "...after all, you will be legislating that ignorance is
lawful" Swift :)
* OLX 2.1 TD * Rap is to music what Etch-a-Sketch is to art
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Rod Swift
|To: Steve Quarrella
|Sub: Staal stinks a little lo
|Date: 19 Mar 97 00:27:00
EID:8331 22730360
MSGID: 3:690/660.0 332ec254
* On 16-03-97 at 00:20, STEVE QUARRELLA wrote to DAVID RICE,
on the topic of "Staal stinks a little low" in echo Holysmoke:
SQ> >> FLORIDA -- State court removed child from lesbian
SQ> >> mother and gave custody to father. Father is a
SQ> >> convicted wife-beater and murderer.
SQ> I'm not certain as to how they're different, at least in
SQ> the sense that both have been someone's girlfriend. :)
SQ> But seriously...
SQ> JS>> Would that seem to say that a wife-beater and murderer
SQ> JS>> is a better role model than a lesbian???[sic]
SQ> Sounds like a court made up of shitheads. What else did
SQ> Jimbo have to say on this?
Oh, did I mention the judge was a fundamentalist Christian?
I have the article around here somewhere, I'm sure.
Rod "...it was on appeal, but now the natural mother has died" Swift :(
___-----------------------------------------------------------------
LESBIAN/GAY LAW NOTES
ISSN 8755-9021 February 1997
The further appeal of an adverse lesbian custody decision in __Ward
v. Ward__, 1996 W 491692 (Fla. Dist. Ct. App., 1st Dist. Aug. 20),
may have been mooted on Jan. 22 when Mary Ward, the appellant, died
from a sudden heart attack. Her case stirred national press
controversy after a trial judge changed custody of her daughter to
Mrs. Ward's ex-husband, who had previously served a prison term for
the murder of his previous wife. The judge had opined that the
daughter should have the opportunity not to be raised in a "lesbian
environment," and the court of appeals had refused to reverse that
decision. However, one issue remaining in the case was the
potential applicability of a state statute concerning eligibility
for child custody of parents convicted of serious domestic violence
offenses, so it is possible the Florida Supreme Court will still be
interested in ruling on the appeal. __New York Times__, Jan. 23.
___-----------------------------------------------------------------
* OLX 2.1 TD * Nuke a gay Jesus for the baby whales
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: The Perth Omen (3:690/660)
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|From: Sue Alexander
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: jesus needed...
|Date: 23 Mar 97 02:40:59
EID:7216 22771500
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 3335be7b
-=> Quoting Jim Staal to Sue Alexander <=-
JS>> No. You are the one speaking of them in such a manner. All of the
JS>> things you listed (compassion, understanding, kindness) appear as
JS>> desireable attributes in any person, man or woman.
RS>> Yet you display none of them.
JS> That is not true. Ask those who know me. If they are honest they
JS> will tell you I do.
RS> Fredric, is Jimson compassionate, understanding and kind? Heck,
RS> anyone on the echo wish to answer?
(snip)
JS> No, I'm talking about folks within the echo/channel. Those who
JS> know me and deny that I possess such attributes are blind liars.
Jim, I will admit that you occassionally show compassion and
kindness, even understanding, in this forum. However, the situations
are few and very far between. You generally put on the air of trying to
be kind, while the dagger is poised at the throat and the shuffle
begins as to what you said vs what was meant by the words. You should
have been a lawyer for all the dickering you have done here about the
exact words that were said in an exchange...you would have had a great
career.
This is just my opinion.
Sue
... If anyone finds anything bigger than your ego, I hope they shoot it
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
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|From: Sue Alexander
|To: AMANDA BARLOWE
|Sub: A baby + God = Hell
|Date: 23 Mar 97 16:43:04
EID:e724 22778560
PID: BWMAX2 3.10 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:121/45.0 3335be7c
-=> Quoting AMANDA BARLOWE to LYNDA BUSTILLOZ <=-
-> Jd> But, Ken.....newborns SPEAKING LIES fresh outta the womb? Just
-> SPEAKING Jd> would be miraculous........and your evidence for this
-> is?
-> KY> It doesn't have to be verbally.
-> How does a newborn baby lie NONverbally? Example, please?
AB> A newborn baby doesn't what you'd say lie, but we are all sinners
AB> right ought of the womb. This is taken from the Bible.
So it's OK with you that a newborn baby that dies will go straight
to hell?
Sue
... "Dumber than advertised." -- Yakko Warner
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: You lose.
|Date: 23 Mar 97 12:12:37
EID:c4f2 22776180
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 59589b10
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 3333d77e
On (22 Mar 97) Judith Bandsma wrote to Jim Staal...
-=> Jim complained of warm pie, cold coffee, and no paper to Lynda <=-
JS> I'm not being deliberately dense (and I resent the inference). I was
JS> asking a legitimate question. You didn't approach a targeted clinic.
JB> You are being deliberately dense, Jim. You know damned well I reported
JB> to the echo when I was harassed at the clinic when I went for a PAP
JB> smear. And was even followed home. Not sure if I was followed or
JB> they somehow accessed the clinic records for my address.
No, I wasn't aware of that. BTW, and for the record, it was Lynda who
made the statement and it was speculation on her part. (you didn't
quote her statement, but if you check it out, you will see she said
'would have' or something to the effect. Hence, hearsay and not
admissable)
JB> I don't use that clinic any more. So I don't get PAP tests done. If
I
JB> die of cervical or uterine cancer, my family has instructions to sue
JB> the local right-to-life groups for my wrongful death.
Reason? Wilbur has never been to a 'clinic' and has a regular OBGYN.
These are available, you know. It is called 'preventive maintenance'
and should be done on a regular basis after a certain age.
... Blessed is the man to whom the lord will not impute sin. (Rom 4:8)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: Baby burning in Hell
|Date: 23 Mar 97 12:16:17
EID:283c 22776200
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 2a7f3b58
REPLY: 1:229/622.0 33345393
On (22 Mar 97) Judith Bandsma wrote to Jim Staal...
-=> Jim complained of warm pie, cold coffee, and no paper to Christopher
<=-
JS> I was making reference to roe v wade, Chris.
JB> So where does Roe v. Wade FORCE a woman to have an abortion if she
JB> doesn't want one?
It doesn't. Merely allows it.
... Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good. (Rom 12:21)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: Cheese Whiz
|Date: 23 Mar 97 12:17:18
EID:3f9c 22776220
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 cf4c2752
REPLY: 1:207/212 a8974292
On (20 Mar 97) Karen Davis wrote to Jim Staal...
KD> On (18 Mar 97) Jim Staal wrote to Karen Davis...
JS> Agreed. That is what makes this procedure doubly vile. Deliberate
JS> breech just to kill.
KD> There is no way to create a deliberate breech.
KD> IF THE HEAD IS IN THE VAGINA THERE IS NO REASON TO ABORT.
JS> Oh, yes. The reason is not to bring a live child into the world. Kill
JS> it before it is totally out.
KD> Um, Jim... abortion happens because women don't want to be PREGNANT,
We totally disagree there. If the woman didn't want to be pregnant, she
would not:
a. have sex
b. use protection
c. take b/control pills or other means to assure that she
wouldn't get pregnant.
She wouldn't wait till after the 5th month. She is already _very_
pregnant. Your reason doesn't wash.
KD> not because they don't want the child. Primarily, at least. If the
KD> baby is
KD> coming out, you're not pregnant any more, no need to worry if the baby
KD> comes out alive or dead.
Exactly my point. Why kill the baby then?
KD> The child is
KD> going to come out.
JS> Not if the murdering slime doktor doesn't allow it to.
KD> The point is, Jim, there are no murdering slime doctors.
In my opinion there are.
KD> There are
KD> doctors who disagree with you on the ethics of abortion.
Obviously.
JS> Why do you continue to try to deny that this procedure is done? The
JS> facts of the matter is public record (congressional record, I'm
JS> sure.)
KD> The facts of the matter is that the number of times this procedure is
KD> done in the third trimester are only barely into triple digits per
KD> year and in EACH case the procedure is done for serious complications.
KD> Maybe not life threatening by YOUR standards but you're not a doctor.
Ron Fitzsimmons may or may not be a doctor either, but he said 3000-4000
viable fetuses with healthy mothers.
... A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. (Gal 5:9)
--- PPoint 2.00
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|From: Jim Staal
|To: Karen Davis
|Sub: You lose.
|Date: 23 Mar 97 12:21:22
EID:3699 227762a0
MSGID: 1:228/45.5 19b58a6a
REPLY: 1:207/212 02679803
On (20 Mar 97) Karen Davis wrote to Jim Staal...
KD> You do realize her first two children are not by George? Does this
KD> help?
I knew that.
KD> Lynda is speaking of two children she would have considered aborting.
KD> Two crisis pregnancies.
And the end result proved that abortion wasn't necessary. Lynda is
fine, both children are fine. I didn't say it was easy, but then, if it
were easy, anybody could have done it. I give Lynda a lot of credit.
Just one of the reasons I call her my friend. I have a lot of respect
for her.
KD> Maybe it helps that I happened to chat at length on this issue with
KD> Lynda before. I understand PERFECTLY what she means.
I understand that.
... Be not faithless, but believing. - John 20:27
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: God's Advocate (1:228/45.5)
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