God Damned Fundies!
|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Terry Liberty-Parker
|Sub: Waco rememberance
|Date: 26 Apr 96 16:50:31
EID:978f 209a8640
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 31813716
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Terry Liberty-Parker Waco rememberance wgah'nagl fhtagn.
DW> Maybe *you* can tell us when and where *tanks* were driven *thru* a
DW> "kid occupied residence". If you can't, why not shut the hell up
DW> about this subject and save yourself some embarrassment?
TL> The 'ordinary' person is likely to refer to an armoured vehicle as a
TL> tank when it's breaching a residence occupied with men, women and
TL> children.
Do they not refer to armored vehicles as "tanks" when said vehicles are
used to run over a crowded kennel, or when they perform cross-country
exercises? Why are they only referred to as "tanks" when breaching a
human-occupied dwelling?
Further, it has been known for some time that "ordinary" people are not
especially bright; "ordinary" people believed for several centuries that
the earth was flat and that a good stench kept disease away.
... Can I get you something...Some nuts? A beverage? A shot to the head?
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Preston Simpson
|To: LAURA HODGKINS
|Sub: ending
|Date: 26 Apr 96 16:50:31
EID:75be 209a8640
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 31813717
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh LAURA HODGKINS ending wgah'nagl fhtagn.
LH> I would just like everyone here to know that this is the last
LH> message I plan on posting in this area? Why? because I feel sorry for
Okay.
LH> all you people who are so damn....pig headed, that they can't believe
Us? Pig-headed? Never.
LH> beliefs. I was under the impression that this was a MATURE base where
LH> people could have DISCUSSION with out insulting one another or there
LH> beliefs. but with the immature people I have found here, I see that
Ah, but it *is* such an echo. But you see, there is a rather powerful force
at work here: that of hazing. Those who enter and make extraordinary and
unsupported claims are toasted, sliced, diced, fried, and julianned until
they either provide evidence to support their claims or learn how to
defend their beliefs with equanamity.
This is not an echo for the thin-skinned or the weak. If you can't take
it, fine. Insulting the rest of us (or trying to) will not get you much
respect and, in your case, sounds too much like a feeble cry of sour
grapes as you flee.
LH> this is not a possibility. so from now on, unless you have something
LH> intelligent and mature to say, please don't bother answering this
LH> posting or any others. once again I pity all of you.
And I pity you, for being such a weak-willed person.
... "They're just kobolds. What are you worried about?"
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Tracey Rea
|Sub: Re: Kenneth the neo-atheist
|Date: 26 Apr 96 16:50:31
EID:8019 209a8640
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 31813718
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Tracey Rea Re: Kenneth the neo-atheist wgah'nagl fhtagn.
TR> I defy you to prove that there is no God...
I defy you to prove that the sun isn't a jelly doughnut.
Proving a negative is a futile exercise, a fool's errand if ever there was
one. One may provide evidence supporting or in conflict with a particular
statement, but proving *anything* outside of mathematics, especially
negatives, is well-nigh impossible.
TR> Are you saying that you were put on this earth (by whatever means)
TR> just to end up as either fertilizer or worm food? What do you believe
Ken's a rather ardent Christian.
I, on the other hand, hold somewhat different views. You're beginning with
the assumption that human life has an inherent meaning when it has yet to
be shown with any degree of certainty that it does. Does this mean that
I
am a nihilist, one who regards human life as a waste of time? No. My own
philosophy stipulates that life has whatever meaning we decide to give it
on an individual basis. Some think that they are destined for some "higher
calling." Some, like myself, aren't interested in kowtowing to invisible
and heretofore unevidenced deities and are just going through life doing
good for its own sake. Others have other purposes, and some seem to have
none at all.
TR> happens when you die? Do you believe in an after-life (of any kind)?
In my case, the afterlife is an interesting but impractical idea; I'd rather
like to think that there *is* an afterlife, but having seen no concrete
evidence of its existence, I am forced to withold judgment pending further
testimony.
TR> Just because a person cannot 'prove' his beliefs does not make him a
TR> liar - you don't believe in God but if you can't prove He doesn't
TR> exist, does this make you a liar?
Nobody can prove that Odin doesn't exist, or that Zeus doesn't exist, et
cetera ad nauseam.
As a point of order, God *does* exist, as a construct of the human
imagination, if nothing else. Whether he exists in the sense intended by
the holders of that idea is another matter entirely and very much open
to question.
... I am not arguing with you, I'm telling you.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Roger Hunter
|Sub: EVIL
|Date: 26 Apr 96 16:50:31
EID:08be 209a8640
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 31813719
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Roger Hunter EVIL wgah'nagl fhtagn.
RH> Tsk. You really need to read some Skinner, Al. Human behavior can be
RH> determined by outside influences. We're just too "Christian" to do
RH> it.
You should also read Skinner's critics, one of whom said that the best
thing Skinner's mother could have done for him would have been to bury
the little tyke in a plastic bag after he was born.
Skinner's interesting, but his contention that all action is the result
of
conditioning, with no room for interior processes, is bullshit. As far as
I can tell, Skinner doesn't hold much faith in the ideas of thinking or
reasoning.
RH> Looked at the repeat offender rate lately? Jail does not rehabilitate
RH> but execution definately prevents repeating!
That's because the U. S. judicial system is something of a mockery of
justice. The whole reason why the death penalty was temporarily outlawed
in the early '70s (Furman v. Georgia, I believe) was because it was found
to be a "cruel and unusual punishment," *not* because we were killing
people, but because the punishment was not applied evenly (minorities and
poor people got fried because they couldn't afford the kind of lawyers that
could get 'em off the hook) and because the wait between sentencing and
execution was deemed to be psychologically damaging.
... Love thy neighbor as thyself, but choose thy neighborhood carefully.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Mark Barnett
|Sub: ANGEL FUNDY
|Date: 26 Apr 96 16:50:32
EID:6d57 209a8640
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 3181371a
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Mark Barnett ANGEL FUNDY wgah'nagl fhtagn.
PS> DC>Please explain why the sky is blue.
PS> MB> Because the Lord made it that way.
PS>How do you know it wasn't Odin?
MB> Faith
Faith is not equal to knowledge, no matter what your Bible says. Got
anything a little more concrete?
... AD&D Quote: "You don't use saving throws?"
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Preston Simpson
|To: Mark Barnett
|Sub: Someone please lend Mr. B
|Date: 26 Apr 96 16:50:32
EID:57da 209a8640
MSGID: 1:123/318.0 3181371c
PID: BWRA 3.01 [Reg]
TID: FastEcho 1.45 7703
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Mark Barnett Someone please lend Mr. B wgah'nagl fhtagn.
PS>I did that. Or was being on the verge of suicide twice not good enough
for
PS>God?
MB> Well I've been there myself once or twice, but someone always came a
MB> long and said something or did something that got me going again and
I
MB> had not even told them what I was planing. And it was always a
MB> Christian. So I fell that the Lord was there for me. When I was at my
I'm glad you've had these experiences. I have not. Why?
MB> and I was not a good Christian then and I still took sevral years
MB> before I really got right with God, but he was their for me even when
I
MB> was not their for him. Sorry for being so long winded.
Quite alright. But I repeat: Why are you so blessed? What have I done to
offend God?
MB> you would just try to follow what he said. Now the support he gives
you
MB> might not be what you think you need but it will be what you do need.
There's a vast difference between giving support and giving none at all.
I received absolutely no support from God. That's all there is to it.
... DM Advice: Maps on the table have a tendency to attract soda.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
* Origin: Fregi Ventum, not just a pretty fragrance! Memphis TN (1:123/318)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/318 305 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sally Springett
|To: J.j. Hitt
|Sub: Our Daily Alien
|Date: 25 Apr 96 11:42:00
EID:282d 20995d40
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ 9c1f7e2b
JH> Oh... saw a new storefront church in Chinatown today. The sign
JH> is mostly in Chinese, but across the bottom it says in
JH> english: "The Home Of Jesus Christ."
JH> I rather doubt that their lease allows them to use the
JH> property as a residence.
ROTFL! It's screen cleaning time.
... Exit stage left...running.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
---
* KMail 3.10m Knight Moves
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
* Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99 234/100
SEEN-BY: 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211 272/82
SEEN-BY: 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5 102 220
SEEN-BY: 2613/228 240 313 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 2613/313 5 270/101 218/801
|From: Sally Springett
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: WHATEVER
|Date: 26 Apr 96 14:09:00
EID:9c4b 209a7120
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ 7b221e8c
JE> but I have a problems with Mormons because of the Elders that
JE> go around trying to push their beliefs on everyone.
JB> And, if they let you into their database, you can be
JB> absolutely sure of visits once a week at a minimum.
You're too quick to panic. The Family History Centers are run by
volunteers, most of whom are hobbiests not Mormons. I have been
visiting mine for years. They don't even ask for your name and they
certainly don't visit.
... Evangelists do more than lay people.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
---
* KMail 3.10m Knight Moves
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
* Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99 234/100
SEEN-BY: 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211 272/82
SEEN-BY: 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5 102 220
SEEN-BY: 2613/228 240 313 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 2613/313 5 270/101 218/801
|From: Sally Springett
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Life in the fast lane.
|Date: 26 Apr 96 15:01:00
EID:9d87 209a7820
MSGID: 1:2613/313@ 28b7bf8e
DM> Marlin (or is it Marlon?) Perkins was an animal guy and an
DM> early TV person on "Zooparade" in the 50s. He was later (and
DM> older) on another show for Mutual of Omaha, in which he was
DM> forever talking to the camera from a position of safety while
DM> his faithful assistant roused the buffalo, found the hornet's
DM> nest, or whatever.
No fool he. He got paid the big bucks and used someone else to do
the dirty work. By the time he got to this point, however, he was
well over 50 and had been doing his own dirty work for years.
Surely he was entitled to relax a bit. After Perkins died the
someone else (whose name I don't remember) got to sit back and
watch. And so it goes.
... Start the day with a smile and get it over with.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
---
* KMail 3.10m Knight Moves
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
* Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99 234/100
SEEN-BY: 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211 272/82
SEEN-BY: 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5 102 220
SEEN-BY: 2613/228 240 313 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 2613/313 5 270/101 218/801
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: A FAIR & JUST GOD
|Date: 26 Apr 96 07:58:00
EID:27bc 209a3f40
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to Al Schroeder <=-
MB> It doesn't matter whether you are talking about cattle, pigs,
MB> sheep, or chickens. The ratio is about the same: it takes a
MB> multiple amount of food passed through another animal then
In Al's defense on chickens, free range chickens do not have to be fed
grain of any kind. They can subsist very nicely on insects and whatever
grass seeds grow wild in their range. True, the eggs are smaller and come
in less quantity and the chickens themselves do not attain the size we are
used to seeing coming out of our supermarkets, but almost any fowl (with
the exception of the domesticated turkey) would not be dependant on the
grain also needed to feed a hungry people.
... Not now . . . I have to go mow the laundry.
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99 234/100
SEEN-BY: 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211 272/82
SEEN-BY: 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/19 200 803 911 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 372/911 200 270/101 218/801
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Tracey Rea
|Sub: KENNETH THE NEO-ATHEI
|Date: 26 Apr 96 08:19:00
EID:a9c1 209a4260
-=> Quoting Tracey Rea to Kenneth Mcabee <=-
TR> liar - you don't believe in God but if you can't prove He doesn't
TR> exist, does this make you a liar?
Gee, Tracey, isn't the egg on your face kind of sticky? Mcabee is one of
our fundiest of fundies. Even said he wouldn't want to but would kill his
kids if god commanded him to do it. How's that for fundy?
And this will probably be the only nice comment you get on your post but:
YOU CAN'T 'PROVE' A NEGATIVE, DIPSHIT.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99 234/100
SEEN-BY: 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211 272/82
SEEN-BY: 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/19 200 803 911 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1
SEEN-BY: 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 372/911 200 270/101 218/801
|From: DAVID RICE
|To: DAVID TROSCH
|Sub: Religious Lawsuit
|Date: 24 Apr 96 13:40:00
EID:c4ab 20986d00
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting David Trosch to All <=-
DT> Mobile, Alabama -- April 17, 1996
DT> $53 Million - Anti- Religion and Free Speech -
DT> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . FACE Lawsuit by Abortionist.
DT> Christians should soon expect to be required to profess:
"Required to profess." ROTFL!!!!
... A virgin girl who is raped must marry her rapist. Deut. 22:28-29
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "I wish life could be Swedish magazines." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99 234/100
SEEN-BY: 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211 272/82
SEEN-BY: 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: DAVID RICE
|To: STARWYN
|Sub: Pizza! Er, I mean tost!
|Date: 25 Apr 96 10:57:00
EID:1a40 20995720
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10280
-=> Quoting Starwyn to David Rice <=-
>DR> How about ordering a handsome[sic] man (me) with nothing
>DR> on, instead?
St> You're on the menu???
Allways have been. I'm an aquired taste, though.
>DR> In other words, yes, you're getting out. WELCOME BACK!
St> Thanks ... anyone seen Marty L. lately?
He jumped in here about three weeks ago, said "Yo!" and left.
St> You coming to fest?
Now there's a good question. I have registered to attend. My
co-worker is taking vacation on the week after Dragonfest, so
I would have to leave a day early to get back to work on time
(we may not both be on vacation on the same day).
I get lonely and depressed at Dragonfest. If I cannot find
someone to go with I will not go.
... I'm Thomas Vail's best friend. And I know where the negatives are!
* Shy.David@EdenBBS.com
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: "I wish life could be Swedish magazines." (1:124/9005)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99 234/100
SEEN-BY: 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211 272/82
SEEN-BY: 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 50
SEEN-BY: 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: LAURA HODGKINS
|Sub: ending
|Date: 26 Apr 96 13:44:52
EID:2e2a 209a6d80
MSGID: 1:352/266 31811B76
LH> this is nota possibility. so from now on, unless you have something
LH> intelligent and
LH> mature to say, please don't bother answering this posting or any
LH> others. once again I pity all of you.
I hope I fall under the mature and intelligent category. I refuse to enter
the mudslinging fests. However, this area does seem to exhibit a certain
mind set that is common in our world. I use it as an exercise in learning
to deal with the frustrations it presents without resorting to innane banter.
Nice to see someone else who might prefer a discussion to a debunking.
However, hang around a while and you might see that it also works as a form
of release valve for people who have become fearful and frustrated... better
the banter here than in person at least.
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Get This...DIFFERENT DOES NOT EQUAL WRONG!! (1:352/266)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 271 380 153/800
SEEN-BY: 153/920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 352/266 600 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/1
SEEN-BY: 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777
SEEN-BY: 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 352/266 600 138/380 146 270/101 218/801
|From: KEN DAVIS
|To: jerry gilbreath
|Sub: Genesis problems [1/4]
|Date: 27 Apr 96 00:23:25
EID:fdbe 209b02e0
MSGID: 1:2624/610.0 3181a13d
PID: BWRA 3.02 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8217
While lurking about unseen, Jerry Gilbreath spake thusly to Sue Armstrong:
SA> * Some, like the dodo, must have lived on islands. (If they
didn't,
SA> they would have been easy prey for other animals.)
SA> If animals all lived fairly close to Noah before the flood (as
SA> Whitcomb & Morris suggest), how were they all able to survive
the
SA> predation and competition pressures from all the others, and
why
SA> doesn't evidence of their living together show up in fossil
SA> distributions?
JG> There is no evidence of predatory behavior before the flood.
JG> Conditions were much different then, so it is very reasonable to expect
JG> that behavior has changed as well. Pre-flood conditions have been
JG> duplicated by Dr. Carl Baugh in a hyper-baric chamber with some amazing
JG> results. The growth rate of fish, the structure of snake venom, and
the
JG> life span of fruit flies are now known to be affected.
If I may but in here, there is indeed evidence aplenty for predation
before the "flood". But the simplest way to show it is thus; Creatures
like cats, canines, most snakes, and many others, all require meat to
survive, ergo, there had to be predation in order for these creatures to
survive the trip to the ark. Also, many animals like the afformentioned
sloth could not have made the trip even in a hundred years. and many of
those that could have theoretically made the trip could not have survived
the journey. A water loving animal like the crocidillians could not have
survived desert conditions. Conversley, a desert animal such as a desert
hare could have never made it through a wetland. the animals are simply
not equipped to survive in radically different environs. and even in
biblical times, the ecology was widely varied. A hot climate animal such
as many amphipians and reptiles would never survive a cold winter, and I
can't imagine a penguin making it through a hot dessert summer to arrive
at the ark. said penguins would ahve to make it from the cold south pole
all the way up to the northern hemisphere, past the steamy hot equator.
Just can't be done in your 100 year limit, if at all. perhaps a million,
but not 100.
SA> How was the ark loaded? The Bible says all the animals were all loaded
in
SA> seven days [Gen. 7:4]. Even if there were only 9 million species
to
SA> be loaded, there would have to be an average of 30 animals per
SA> second going through the ark's one door.
JG> Much variety can be obtained by selective breeding. Genesis states
JG> that every KIND of animal was on the ark, not every possible breed.
JG> Creationists estimate less than 3000 kinds of animals were on the ark.
selective breeding is one thing, selectively breeding even 300 kinds of
animals in 100 years is quite another, especialy with the techniques
available at the time. and with meat eaters on board, how were they fed?
You only have two of each on board, and cats have to start eating meat
immediately. There would have been insufficient time to breed the meat
animals for food sources in 40 days. And even though a canine might be
able to eat plant matter for awhile, cats MUST eat meat. All cats, large
or small. Selective breeding even with todays hi tech would be hard
pressed to breed a vegatarian cat, a few thousand years ago it would have
been a physical impossibility, even taking into account that there has
never been any evidence at all, Biblical, or scientific that such a
creature ever existed to begin with. There would have been no place to
start trying. A bear, maybe. A wolf, possibly, But never a feline.
SA> How was the ark made seaworthy? The longest wooden ships in modern
seas
SA> are about 300 feet, and these require reinforcing with iron straps
SA> and leak so badly they must be constantly pumped. The ark was
450
SA> feet long [Gen. 6:15].
JG> As I mentioned before, the conditions before the flood affected life
JG> forms in ways that are not seen today. It is possible that the wood
JG> was stronger. It is also possible that Noah was a better ship builder
JG> than those of today. (Note that Noah's proportions are used in modern
JG> ships.)
Modern tech is also used in modern ships to correct the problems inherent
in the design. And upon what do you base your statement that the pre
"flood" conditions effected life so radically that the voyage of the ark
as written would have even been a remote possibility? What about disease?
Did that not exist before the flood? Dosent the bible make reference to
several, such as leprocy? That many animals crowded together would surely
produce some fatalities, eliminating the species that was sickened. I
recall no mention of anything like that.
SA> How did Noah supply food and water for all the animals for a year?
[Gen.
SA> 6:21] Food for a year would have taken up many times the space
of
SA> the animals themselves. (I know of no animals, except some desert
SA> amphibians, that hibernate for anywhere close to a year.)
JG> These assumptions are probably based on animals living a normal life
JG> in a favorable habitat. I think that under the conditions of the flood
JG> and in the ark's environment, hibernation could have been possible for
JG> many animals that don't normally hibernate.
SA> How was the food kept fresh for a year? (Aphids, e.g., can't eat wilted
SA> plants.)
JG> Plant life was probably greatly affected by the pre-flood conditions
JG> (higher atmospheric pressure, higher oxygen content, reduced ultra
JG> violets,etc.) We don't know about how fast they spoiled.
If we dont know, then we can't assume anything either way just because it
convieniently supports what we wish to beleive. In other words, I
can't prove that plant life spoiled, but Nor can you prove that it didn't.
But what about the animals that needed meat? again, this is a problem.
While many animals can hibernate for long periods of time, there is no
evedence that the large carnivores could hibernate at all. Even bears do
not truly hibernate, but sleep deeply. And after a few winter months, they
have undergone a drastic weight loss. A year would probably kill them. It
would certianly kill any animal warmblodded animal that was not
specifically designed for hibernation. And most mid to large predators are
not now, and from the skeletal, biblical records as well as from
scientific evidence, never were. They would have died.
SA> How did creatures needing special environments survive on the
SA> ark?
JG> Certain animals require special environments presently; however, we
do
JG> not know what their requirements were before the flood.
Yes we do. By looking at body structure, and comparing DNA from animals
presently living with those long dead, we can see that they were too
similar to be that different during the time of the ark. A duck is a duck,
now and then. A lion has not changed that drastically in ten thousand
years. A turtle in millions. And for an animal to be so radically
different from it's decendants, the DNA would also have to be different.
There has never been any evidence to support your theories. But there has
been evidence to debunk it.
SA> How well ventilated was the ark? The body heat from millions of closely
SA> packed animals must have been very intense.
JG> On the other hand, it may have been very comfortable. Evidence of ice
JG> forming at the poles in a completely tropical world indicates that the
JG> water might have been pretty chilly.
It may indeed have been chilly. But that would have done harm to the
animals that required warm tropical environs. If it were humoid, then the
desert creatures would have suffered harm. And what about those animals
that needed a swampy environ to survive? The ark was simply not big enough
to accomodate all those ecologies. Another point worth looking at is that
the fossil record shows many more species than your 3000 +/- in an
unbroken line both before and after the flood. Even with selective
breeding, you can't mate many species together to get desired results
simply because they cannot interbreed. You cannot cross a gorilla with a
chimp to get an orangutang.
SA>The flood:
SA> Where did the water come from? (It would take 4.4 billion cubic
SA> kilometers to cover Mt. Everest.)
SA> Where did it go?
JG> Apparently water was stored in chambers under the surface, as well as
JG> above the sky. Evidence shows that there may have been enough water
JG> above the earth to affect gravity. This involves applying the square
JG> cube rule used by body builders to dinosaurs.
I suspect that to effect gravity to that point would not allow many
creatures to survive.
JG> After the flood, the continents were formed from a single land mass,
JG> creating the forces to push the mountains to new heights while making
JG> more room for water by increasing the diameter of the earth. See
JG> Psalms 104:8.
If you increase the diameter of the planet, you would have to increase
it's mass as well. There is nothing to back that up. Better to melt the
polar ice, but therin lies problems as well. Besides, although there is
evidence aplenty that the continents were once a single land mass,
(Pangea) the same evidence also suggests that the continents had thier
present configuration long before mankind ever existed. Certianly longer
than the thousands of years that the bible seems to suggest. Last
estimate, 4 billion years. One final thing, what about the dinosaurs? We
certianly know that they existed, but I don't recall any mention of them
on the ark.
JG> Sorry, that is all I have time for.
Me too. :)
Ken Davis
... Who is General Failure, and what's he doing in my computer?
-!- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
! Origin: The World's End BBS 914-298-0158 (1:2624/610)
-!- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
! Origin: The World's End BBS 914-298-0158 (69:2601/107)
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The World's End BBS 914-298-0158 (1:2624/610)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 600 610 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 2624/610 306 270/101 218/801
|From: KEN DAVIS
|To: jerry gilbreath
|Sub: Science vs. Faith
|Date: 27 Apr 96 00:23:25
EID:debc 209b02e0
MSGID: 1:2624/610.0 3181a13e
PID: BWRA 3.02 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8217
While lurking about unseen, Jerry Gilbreath spake thusly to Elliott Finesse:
EF>Expect some mail from John Brawley. Here is a little taste for ya:
JG> Don't get your hopes up. Your champion seems to have missed the whole
JG> point of Gentry's work.
JG> The point is that there is no evidence of any parent radioactive
JG> elements that could account for the polonium's existence. With
JG> no parent element, the polonium must have been primordial. This
Not quite so. Perhaps they just havent found it yet.
JG> is particularly significant since the half life of polonium 218
JG> is 3 minutes. This is hardly enough time for piece of granite
JG> a few miles thick to cool from a molten state.
With a half life that short, you would be hard pressed to show that is has
been around on it's own from last month, never mind from the beginning!
Ken
... Hello, I'll be your evil influence for the evening.
-!- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
! Origin: The World's End BBS 914-298-0158 (1:2624/610)
-!- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
! Origin: The World's End BBS 914-298-0158 (69:2601/107)
======================================================================
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The World's End BBS 914-298-0158 (1:2624/610)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 600 610 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 2624/610 306 270/101 218/801
|From: KEN DAVIS
|To: Kevin D. Mckenzie
|Sub: Flood impossibilities.
|Date: 27 Apr 96 00:23:25
EID:6065 209b02e0
MSGID: 1:2624/610.0 3181a140
PID: BWRA 3.02 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8217
While lurking about unseen, Kevin D. Mckenzie spake thusly to Mimi Milstein:
KDM> MIMI MILSTEIN spoke thusly to MICHAEL HARDY:
MM>Hey, don't put an attitude stamp on me. None of us know THE TRUTH.
MM>"Faith and/or illusions" have this in common that they are concepts
MM>of the mind, without any ironclad physical proof - which is why I
MM>used them opposite scientific methodology (which DOES demand proof).
KDM> No it doesn't. It can't, for that matter.
Explain that, if you would.
... Me ... a skeptic? I trust you have proof!
-!- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
! Origin: The World's End BBS 914-298-0158 (1:2624/610)
-!- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
! Origin: The World's End BBS 914-298-0158 (69:2601/107)
======================================================================
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The World's End BBS 914-298-0158 (1:2624/610)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 600 610 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 2624/610 306 270/101 218/801
|From: KEN DAVIS
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Our Daily Astonishment
|Date: 27 Apr 96 00:23:25
EID:e670 209b02e0
MSGID: 1:2624/610.0 3181a141
PID: BWRA 3.02 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8217
While lurking about unseen, Mimi Milstein spake thusly to All:
MM> The program is making public the undisclosed discovery of a tomb in
MM> Israel, by archeologists. The tomb contains the bones of a person who
MM> was crucified, the nails are still through the ankles!
MM> The 'Ossary' is clearly marked 'Jesus', it is with four others marked
MM> 'Joseph of Aramathea', 'Mary', 'Judah, Son of Jesus', and 'Matthew'.
MM> Another 'Ossary' is marked 'Mary', but this is in Greek.
MM> The Apostle Paul is revealed as only having a 'vision' of the risen
MM> Christ.
MM> So, that just about shoots the whole basis of the Christian faith down
MM> in flames, doesn't it!!
Hi. Actually, it would if it could be proven that Jesus and family were
definately the remains found in the tomb. That would be hard to do, and
,
worse luck, I'm willing to bet that no Christian out there would be
willing to accept the fact that Jesus was really the body found. Without
absolute proof, it is just conjecture, and no religious Christian would
be
willing to accept conjecture unless it is the conjecture found a;in the
bible, or B; unless it supports thier belief system.
Although for what it's worth, I think that wherever he was placed after
his death, is where he remains.
Ken
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: The World's End BBS 914-298-0158 (1:2624/610)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 600 610 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 2624/610 306 270/101 218/801
|From: Grant Farrington
|To: Elliott Finesse
|Sub: Genocidal Prophet
|Date: 26 Apr 96 17:12:32
EID:2aa4 209a8980
MSGID: 3:640/201.3 31810448
REPLY: 1:215/130 00112dfe
Hello Elliott.
22 Apr 96 15:15, Elliott Finesse wrote to Don Martin:
EF> Virgins (!) and what God's cut will be, we discover that 16 virgins
EF> (who were treated no differently in the narative whatsoever than the
EF> livestock) were given up as an offering to the Lord.
EF> But since the Mindianites were probably considered less than human,
I
EF> guess it wasn't really "human" sacrifice.
I wonder wether this evil book will ever be on the banned list like it
should be ? :)
Grant
--- GoldED 2.50.Beta6 UNREG
* Origin: Wild Magic BBS Hervey Bay Qld OZ (3:640/201.3)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 640/201 221 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 640/201 270/101 218/801
|From: Grant Farrington
|To: Mark Barnett
|Sub: Someone please lend Mr. B
|Date: 26 Apr 96 21:13:46
EID:0914 209aa9a0
MSGID: 3:640/201.3 31813d8c
REPLY: 1:3819/163 317DB4C4
Hello Mark.
22 Apr 96 23:05, Mark Barnett wrote to Preston Simpson:
MB> I wish that I could give you a better anser but I'm not a preacher or
MB> a Christian councalor but here goes. The Lord said that the life you
MB> would lead would not be easy and that evil would try to destroy you
at
MB> every turn. He promised that he would give you the support you need
if
MB> you would just try to follow what he said. Now the support he gives
MB> you might not be what you think you need but it will be what you do
MB> need.
Well that's all well & good Mark but I could tell you quite a different
story.
Whatever "God" may be, one thing's certain to me. It's a sick, evil, mother-fucking
piece of shit & I hope one day I can piss on it's grave.
Grant
--- GoldED 2.50.Beta6 UNREG
* Origin: Wild Magic BBS Hervey Bay Qld OZ (3:640/201.3)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 640/201 221 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 640/201 270/101 218/801
|From: Grant Farrington
|To: Elliott Finesse
|Sub: Hypnogogic Mind Control
|Date: 26 Apr 96 21:26:38
EID:1e3d 209aab40
MSGID: 3:640/201.3 31814049
REPLY: 1:215/130 0007d9fe
Hello Elliott.
24 Apr 96 06:26, Elliott Finesse wrote to Fredric Rice:
>> People who experience hypnopompic and hypnogogic hallucinations just
>> b falling asleep or just as upon waking up often believe that they
>> exper "visitation" from an "angel."
EF> "Hypnogogic Hallucinations?" Don't they have a new album coming out?
EF> So this that what they call it now? Hell that's the same thing as
EF> Alpha (or Rem) state from the old Silva Mind Control method!
I experience these hypnogogic things a fair bit, as far back as I can remember.
Upon waking, sometimes I see the walls & ceiling covered with insects &
in particular a rather large furry spider :) Been seeing this all my life.
Never real clear though, sort of ghostly-like imagery.
Grant
--- GoldED 2.50.Beta6 UNREG
* Origin: Wild Magic BBS Hervey Bay Qld OZ (3:640/201.3)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 640/201 221 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 640/201 270/101 218/801
|From: Don Martin
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Our Deadly Doctrine
|Date: 26 Apr 96 12:14:24
EID:cd40 209a61c0
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 3181001f
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 65df3c40
J.J. Hitt said "Our Deadly Doctrine" to Robert Jackson,
adding:
JH> where they come from or where they are going, but you'll see
JH> them trudgeing along the shoulder of some rural highway with
JH> thier cross and a dozen or so small signs tacked to their person
JH> and their cross.
JH> What always tickles me is that many of them add a wheel to the
JH> base of the cross to make it easier to drag along.
Hey, if this sort of thing catches on, just wait for the
custom wheel shops to open up. Underslung bicycle wheels,
wide-bodied aircraft wheels, wheels with racing stripes,
wheels with flames painted on their cowlings, fiberglass
disk racing wheels--all kinds. We'll have expositions and
meets, at which various Jesus wannabees show off their slick
crosses and race them up hills. A smart promoter could make
millions!
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/0 1 662 669 1000 1041 1082 1137
SEEN-BY: 261/1180 1181 1350 2000 2600 3015 3050 3060 3090 3900 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801
|From: Don Martin
|To: Tracey Rea
|Sub: Kenneth the neo-atheist
|Date: 26 Apr 96 12:15:59
EID:6f0c 209a61e0
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 31810020
REPLY: 1:2424/654 317d28d7
Tracey Rea said "Kenneth the neo-atheist" to Kenneth Mcabee,
adding:
TR> I defy you to prove that there is no God...
Only an idiot asks people to prove a negative. Asking
such a thing of Kenneth Mcabee, a very strong believer who
is very weak in logic (the two often go hand in hand), is
the task of an idiot with Alzheimer's.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/0 1 662 669 1000 1041 1082 1137
SEEN-BY: 261/1180 1181 1350 2000 2600 3015 3050 3060 3090 3900 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801
|From: Don Martin
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Epistemology 1/2
|Date: 26 Apr 96 12:27:45
EID:a0b9 209a6360
PID: BWMAX2 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:261/1000.0 31810021
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 896A0E3B
Dan Ceppa said "Epistemology 1/2" to Martin Goldberg,
adding:
MG>> You do the experiment. You first drive your Maserati a 100
DC> A lot flashier than Hector's Experiment, and a lot more
DC> expensive, too!
MG> Science should be done in style.
DC> Last time I checked, a Maserati Indy fender was going for about
DC> 7 grand, and that was over 20 yrs ago.
You get different catalogues in the mail from the ones I
get . . .
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
* Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/0 1 662 669 1000 1041 1082 1137
SEEN-BY: 261/1180 1181 1350 2000 2600 3015 3050 3060 3090 3900 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 261/1000 662 1137 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Re: Adolph Hitler Was a
|Date: 25 Apr 96 00:53:00
EID:bb7c 209906a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f052c
Gemantria:
___
(((Al*[X1])2^Richard)Re: Adolph Hitler Was a[X2])=[X3]04-23-96 08:05
---
AS> Well, I THOUGHT so...but several people assured me that last rites
AS> could still be given, which wasn't my impression at all. So, until we
AS> get a priest on here or someone who knows Catholic theology really
AS> well, I'm hedging my bets.
RS> Well, at least I'm glad to know that others are thinking the same
RS> thing as I am . . . or maybe that should scare me? };) However,
RS> something was brought to my attention that may sway this: according
to
RS> someone else, the only acceptible form of suicide in the Catholic
RS> Church is starvation, because the assumption is that the god will
RS> provide if that is not desired of them. This may only confuse things,
RS> though!
AS> They may have been thinking of, say, the Middle Ages there. I doubt
AS> if they approve of one starving themsevles these days, but I don't
AS> know.
See, I said it may only confuse things . . . };)
... "...but I do believe they think I am some sort of god." - C-3PO
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Al Schroeder
|Date: 25 Apr 96 01:13:02
EID:c74c 209909a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f09de
Gemantria:
___
(((Al*[X1])2^Richard)Al Schroeder[X2])=[X3]04-23-96 09:00
---
AS> Or if they WERE going to start it all over again, I think they would
AS> have done better to go to the original powers. The funny thing is,
AS> they have gradually brought back A Supergirl, A
AS> Superboy...interestingly enough, they have even brought up a Kara in
AS> an Argo City, in a one-shot Superman vs. Aliens issue. But the best
AS> stuff they've done is when they DON'T imitate the past, when they
AS> created new villains like Doomsday (the first fight, the "death of
AS> Superman" was pretty mindless, but there was a SECOND one, where
AS> Doomsday BEAT Darkseid, and it was establishes that Doomsday "evolves"
AS> after each defeat and could easily beat Superman now, which was
AS> excellent) or the "Reign of Supermen" thing. And the new Superboy is
AS> pretty different...different powers, based in Hawaii (well, if you
AS> were a young kid with super-powers, where would you want to go...to
AS> Smallville, Kansas, or a place with a lotta pretty girls in bikinis?),
AS> different origin, etc.
I agree that the first Doomsday was extremely shallow . . . but from
what you say, looks like they made good on him, made him a good
villain, though I will always have a problem with villains that are not
very bright seeming (i.e., its too easy, I believe . . . and kinda
stereotypical to assume that bad guys aren't bright. One of the
reasons I used to like General Zod, among others . . .)
AS> You have the name right. Legion went badly awry for a time, but it's
AS> at the peak of its form now. They decided to "reboot" it, starting
AS> from when Saturn Girl, Cosmic Boy, and Lightning Lad (whom they are
AS> calling Live Wire) got together, and thus we can SEE when some of the
AS> early members joined, in the middle of their initial fights...what
AS> changes have been made, quite frankly, have been for the better, and
I
AS> don't say that lightly. I miss Superboy/Kal-El/Clark Kent as part of
AS> them, though...a twentieth century youth, even if super-powered, made
AS> a good focal point to relate to these other super-powered youths in
AS> the future. But they HAVE met the new Superboy, and they may meet
AS> again...
I wouldn't be concerned, for they still have Mon-El, don't they?
Karate Kid was my favorite Legionaire, just as Batman is perhaps my
favorite Justice Leaguer . . . I like the ordinary man who has no
special powers but relies on expertise, etc. I am curious, though, if
Superboy is a clone, how come he doesn't have the same powers?
AS> They should have just blown up Earth-Two, move the non-duplicated
AS> JSAers to Earth-One.
Perhaps. Kinda hard to tell now after the fact, though . . . };)
RS> Aw, man . . . }:P
AS> Yeah. But the thing is, now, the creators, the writers and artists,
AS> get a share of the profits. And certainly a lot of people will be
AS> buying THOSE issues to see what changes will be made. So, it is in the
AS> writers and artists' interests to do a big "event" even if it means
AS> that it hurts the comic in the long run. I'm very pleased that the
AS> writers and artists get more of a share of the profits, but they may
AS> be killing the goose that laid the golden egg. Should start in
AS> September.
Hmm . . . then do you think its becoming a better environment for the
workers on comics? I would approve of that. (I'll tell you a guilty
secret: I've always wanted to write for the comics. I never followed
up on it as a young man, and though I'm not ancient [38], I wonder if I
may be too old to try anyway. Heck, I wouldn't even know where to
start. But I've been interested enough in doing it that I tend to pay
more attention to plot than artwork, story than hype. Sigh.)
RS> And they'll never learn. I guess they have to mess with stuff to
RS> make the buck to continue to make comics, but jeez-louise, can't they
RS> leave SOMETHING alone? Batman has a broken back. Northstar is gay
AS> Not any more.
Oh? tell me tell me tell me tell me tell me tell me tell me . . .
AS> No, Barry's dead, dead, dead. The issues where he supposedly returned
AS> were actually the MAKING of the current Flash, where he confronts the
AS> Reverse-Flash and really starts to stand on his own. Before that, he
AS> had been a Captain America in reverse...a kid partner who had seen his
AS> senior partner die and was trying to fill his boots. Wally's grown up.
AS> Sort of. Kind of. Well, he's still an irresponsible jerk, but that's
AS> his personality...you even get to like him FOR it. If you were
AS> picking up any current comic, I would recommend Flash, now that
AS> SANDMAN has had its final issue....
Hmm . . . I'll go and hang around the racks . . . };)
RS> Superman is killed but rises from the dead. Tony Stark is an
RS> alcoholic. Captain America has to change his name. Nick Fury looses
RS> control of S.H.E.I.L.D. Johnny Storm steals Ben Grimm's girlfriend.
RS> It was this sort of thing I was trying to avoid thinking about by
RS> reading comic books in the first place, fercryinoutloud . . . Sigh.
AS> Hmmm. Not exactly "escapism", is it?
Not at all. But then, I don't escape that way much anymore. Comics
became a dollar apiece when I turned 30, and I saw it as some sort of
omen, so I stopped buying them . . . and now, of course, I feel totally
out of the loop. Heh.
... "A great warrior? Wars not make one great." - Yoda
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Allegory
|Date: 25 Apr 96 01:22:04
EID:7702 20990ac0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f0bfc
Gemantria:
___
(((Al*[X1])2^Richard)Allegory[X2])=[X3]04-23-96 09:01
---
AS> I LOVE it when a plan comes together!
RS> Ah-HA! At last I see the seat of all your disfunctions! A-Team-itis
RS> at it's worst!
AS> I PITY the fool who messes wit' me...
My favorite (guilty secret here) was the crazy one, the guy that
eventually went on to play Bartley (sp?) on STTNG . . . I saw a movie
sometime in the last year or so with Mr. T in it in which T dresses in
drag. My sons found it amusing . . . I felt disquieted . . . };) T
was at his best as Clubber Lang, IMO. Dirk Benedict was also a
favorite for a while, though I haven't seen him in anything lately.
Oh, the stuff we used to watch that we wouldn't want to admit now: The
A-Team, Dukes of Hazzard (I justify it by leering at Daisy Duke),
Gilligan's Island (in which I leered at Mary Ann), I Dream of Jeannie
(ditto for Barbara Eden, who still remains a sexy bit even to this
day), etc. However, there
were some wonderful shows, very intellectual, that were almost
forbidden to watch too, like the Prisoner, the original Time Tunnel,
Outer Limits, etc.
I've become very cynical about the current remakes of some of the old
shows. If anything, they actually seem more mindless than before.
While that can be amusing (the Brady Bunch Movie, for instance), I
can't help but wonder if it's more about the dumbing-down of America.
Good thing my kids have more sophisticate tastes than I had at their
age . . . };)
... A locked chastity belt---steel crazy after all these years...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Apology
|Date: 25 Apr 96 01:25:06
EID:076f 20990b20
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f0cb2
Gemantria:
___
(((Al*[X1])2^Richard)Apology[X2])=[X3]04-23-96 01:00
---
RS> Well, stranger things have happened, right? }:) I mean, Mike's
RS> asking Dan to respond to him on something right now, but has never
RS> said that Dan has even been lifted from his twit list. How does he
RS> expect THAT to work out? };)
AS> By George, you're right...then I have to conclude that the twit list
AS> has been lifted even for Dan.
Doesn't it make you wonder if it ever existed at all? I mean, there'd
be no way to check on it from outside, right? And Michael has enough
of an ego that I could see him saying it but still reading everything
that was being said about him. It would be human nature to do so.
Saying it, at any rate, would have enough of an impact to take the edge
off the posts after a bit. I think Michael was peeking the whole time
. . .
... Yes, it DOES require faith to actively disbelieve in Santa Claus.-M.H.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Genocidal Prophet
|Date: 25 Apr 96 01:30:08
EID:3ef2 20990bc0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f0de0
Gemantria:
___
(((Al*[X1])2^Richard)Genocidal Prophet[X2])=[X3]04-23-96 03:03
---
AS> Y'know, JJ, I ws on the Internet doing some research on Hitler for
AS> obvious reasons, when I found this Web site that had some of the
AS> paintings of Hitler. And they were disturbing...
AS> Because they were't disturbing, if you know what I mean.
RS> This is very similar to the story about Fidel Castro flunking out of
RS> the baseball leagues. I've always been fascinated by the idea of
RS> forks in the road of life . . . one path leads here, the other there.
RS> As you point out, I think we all have the potential for great good or
RS> evil. Fascinating to think of a world without Nazi Germany but with
RS> many paints by perhaps a minor artist, a world where Americans still
RS> go to Havana for pleasure trips, and perhaps even stop at a little
RS> bistro owned by a retired ball player named Fidel Castro . . .
AS> Or Joe Dimaggio ruling a communist island or Norman Rockwell as a
AS> fascist dictator...
"You vill read ze Saturday Evekink Post und you vill _like_ it!" };)
At art school everyone pretty much looked down on Norman Rockwell since
it was insinuated that he'd sold out. That was twenty years ago. Now
I see no one saying that sort of thing anymore . . . just goes to show
what was acceptible.
Situations like this is why I like alternative time-line stories, I
simply love the different way ramifications occur when just a little
variance is thrown in. I've become a real fan of Sliders, though I
don't care much for X-Files (Who are they going to steal a plot from
this week? Almost as bad as Sea Quest!), and I really love Strange
Luck.
AS> ... Mary Poppins: First of the Q to visit earth.
Okay, I'm stealing this one. };)
... "Look at the BONES!" - Tim the Enchanter
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Genocidal Prophet
|Date: 25 Apr 96 01:32:10
EID:3ef2 20990c00
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f0e5a
Gemantria:
___
(((Al*[X1])2^Richard)Genocidal Prophet[X2])=[X3]04-23-96 03:06
---
PS> Not at one shot, no. I know a guy who is, at last report, currently
PS> working on filling a gallon jar.
AS> I REALLY didn't need to know that...
RS> No one did, I think. _I'm_ never going to look at one of those
RS> restaurant-size jars of mayonaise again in the same way . . . };)
AS> Although my wife says that such IS good for shampoos...gives the hair
AS> extra lustre and body...
. . . and I've heard that guano makes hair nice and soft, etc., but
holy moley . . . }|P
AS> We currently use the shampoo that you use on horses, and it does
AS> give the hair a great sheen and stuff, but I am purposely not looking
AS> at the list of ingredients. There are some things men are not meant
to
AS> know...
Just so long as you don't find yourself cantering, or sleep standing up
with a blanket tossed over you . . . };)
... "And to my cat Mittens I leave my entire, vast. . .BOOT TO THE HEAD!!"
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Holy Smoke
|Date: 25 Apr 96 01:37:12
EID:9e90 20990ca0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f0f88
Gemantria:
___
(((Al*[X1])2^Richard)Holy Smoke[X2])=[X3]04-23-96 03:03
---
AS> There was one called Captain Guts I kind of liked. Mr. Natural was
AS> probably my favorite Crumb character.
RS> I liked any of the Crumb women. I had hormones to spare back then .
AS> Ever read "Robert Crumb meets the Woman's Movement"? With predictable
AS> results...
Never saw it, but I'll look for it now that I know that it exists . . .
AS> Going into the local head shop to get underground comics, sandwiched
AS> between the bongs and the day-glo posters...oops. Sorry.
RS> Sure you are. The ever-present smell of patchouli, the beaded
RS> doorway curtains, lava lamps and ultraviolet lights . . . We have a
RS> shop that still sells all that stuff here locally called The
RS> Underground. Talk about flashbacks . . .
AS> Please. It was called "black light", then. And strobe lights!
AS> Remember strobe lights?
Yep. And Strawberry incense, and nehru jackets, and elephant bell
bottoms (my personal favorite . . . at the time ), and lots of black
paint, etc. I wonder why you never seem to find this stuff at garage
sales. Could people still be holding onto these things?
I'm amused by the current bunch of kids who are sixties pretenders.
Kids who _may_ have been conceived in the mid seventies but who find
some sort of allure in flashing back to a period they were never part
of. What truly scares me is that they seem to be doing it better than
I ever did . . . tie dying, for instance, is better than I remember it
ever being, etc. They're rewriting my youth, and I'm not even a
footnote . . .
... "Do not do unto others as you would not have them do unto you." Hillel
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Our Daily Alien
|Date: 25 Apr 96 02:13:14
EID:f28d 209911a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f17fa
Gemantria:
___
(((Al*[X1])2^Richard)Our Daily Alien[X2])=[X3]04-23-96 05:02
---
AS> They still take things from us, just cell samples and blood samples
AS> and sperm samples, according to the UFO mythology...a new volume of
AS> Bullfinch's mythology covering the UFO stuff?
RS> I still keep thinking about that ET-Rex stuff that Judith posted here
RS> this week. But I concur. Modern mythos is very involved, though,
RS> perhaps more involved than ever before, just because there's more
RS> people, etc. I would like to see such a work, though I think I agree
RS> with J.J. that it'd be difficult to pull off . . .
AS> I dunno. The X-Files might be doing it...
Ack.
RS> Now, my personal favorite is the branch that hypothesizes that all
RS> the old Babylonian/Chaldean Gods were ETs . . . you know, the books
by
RS> Zacharia Sitchin . . . I could almost see a decent series of movies
RS> based on them . . .
AS> You talking about the Chariots of the Gods silliness? If not, this is
AS> a brand of lunacy I haven't met yet.
No, not the same sort of thing at all, though it may seem similar from
just casual observance. Sitchin, in about half a dozen books,
postulates that the old Babylonian gods (of Nefilim, as he calls them)
really existed, that they had come from a planet that has an odd orbit
in our solar system and only appears at certain times. According to
him, the Babylonian pantheon creates man through genetic manipulation
of other primates and uses man for slaves. Eventually, though, they
get upset with man (we're apparently worse than roaches) and attempt to
eradicate him by bouncing an asteroid or something off the southern
polar cap, causing The Deluge. This is after a war between the gods and
man. He ties it up neatly with lots of connections to biblical sources,
etc. I find it very enjoyable reading, since I read it as fiction, and
I
do admit that it is very enticing to believe some of the things he
postulates. The earlier books, especially those concerning the war
between Ea and the pantheon against Enki and humankind, are more
enjoyable that the later ones. He attempts to reconcile the Bible with
UFOs, science, AND archaeology in a very entertaining way . . . he even
includes YHVH in the mix, I believe. You should check out the following
books (in order in the series . . . there may be more but I don't know
about them.), all currently available in paperback. Look for them at
used bookstores especially:
----------------------------------------------------------
The 12th Planet ISBN 0-380-39362-X
The Stairway to Heaven ISBN 0-380-63339-6
The Wars of Gods and Men ISBN 0-380-89585-4
The Lost Realms ISBN 0-380-75890-3
When Time Began: The First New Age ISBN 0-380-77071-7
----------------------------------------------------------
There's also another book by him that isn't really part of the series,
called:
----------------------------------------------------------
Genesis Revisted ISBN 0-380-76159-9
----------------------------------------------------------
. . . in which he attempts to reconcile Biblical claims with science,
etc. Also pretty entertaining. Sitchin's very convincing, almost
charming, and the books can be great fun reading. You get the
impression that he's a kook, but not TOO much of a kook . . . };)
... "Ahhh, AHHHH, I am Cornholio, aaaa aaa aaaahhhh AHHHHHH!" -- Beavis
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Question
|Date: 25 Apr 96 02:18:16
EID:3b6f 20991240
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f1928
Gemantria:
___
(((Al*[X1])2^Richard)Question[X2])=[X3]04-23-96 05:00
---
RS> Well, it wouldn't be bad, I could tell you . . . although I have the
RS> same sort of skepticism about a life of lotus-eating that Odysseus
RS> had . . .
AS> I suspect Adam and Eve would have duties later on, when they had
AS> grown more into the role.
<<>>
RS> Maybe. I hadn't seen it as a metaphor, really, but can understand
RS> how it would take that form. It would allow us to believe, however
RS> rightly or wrongly, that those of us that are `less' able than we are
RS> actually somehow more mystical. I kinda like that, truth be told.
I
RS> had a cousin named Beverly who lived to her mid fourties, though she
RS> was never able to speak or move very much, and she was all twisted
RS> with bone and spinal distortions. She was born that way. Yet I can
RS> remember her laughing when we entertained her, and I can remember her
RS> being sad . . . those being the only two states I could decypher from
RS> her grunts . . . and I'm not hard pressed to think that she probably
RS> had an OK life. Not a great one, but given her experience with life,
RS> probably not too bad. I hope so, at least. My feelings for why this
RS> sort of thing happen tend to be more humanistic and less deistically
RS> centered: I believe that these flawed folks allow us to open
RS> ourselves up to greater emotional states. We get to care for them and
RS> love them (often unilaterally) and in the process we get to grow as
RS> people. So they fulfill a necessary function, I feel. At least,
RS> that's what I think . . . };)
AS> Someone made an interesting statement in church; there are many
AS> attributes attributed to God in the Bible...knows all things,
AS> glorious, etc...but only three in the original Greek which can be read
AS> as "identity", as interchangeable with God. He is living. He is a
AS> Spirit. And He is Love. What does that imply about Creation? That God
AS> NEEDED to create something, so there would be something to love. And
AS> it says something about an afterlife, since why should God create us
AS> only to throw us away?
Well, I have to say that all those would be normal feelings in anyone.
Whether they originated with YHVH or were attributed later hasn't been
determined, yet, and is the stuff of argument. But I think it
interesting about the three identity statements . . . though you say
the original Greek, so were you referring to the New Testament?
... Go soothingly on the greasy mud, for therein lurks the skid demon.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Return Of Propterty
|Date: 25 Apr 96 02:20:18
EID:6a33 20991280
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f19a2
Gemantria:
___
(((Al*[X1])2^Richard)Return Of Propterty[X2])=[X3]04-23-96 00:02
---
AS> Thanks, Richard. I'm at home till Tuesday, and I believe I stored
AS> them on my computer at work. Let me see what I can do, though....I
AS> might still have them here, also.
RS> Well, I would appreciate it. Thanx a lot.
AS> Do you still want it now that we know George was lying and yanking
AS> our chain, and didn't destroy it at all?
No, I guess I was just going to try to acquaint myself with the George
case having missed most of it, but enough has happened that my interest
has waned in even attempting to understand him in the whole thing.
Thanx for the effort in my behalf, though, if you made any.
... Cross-posted from alt.swedish.chef.bork.bork.bork.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
Y: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Thanks
|Date: 25 Apr 96 02:23:20
EID:cfd0 209912e0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f1a58
Gemantria:
___
(((Al*[X1])2^Richard)Thanks[X2])=[X3]04-23-96 00:06
---
AS> To paraphrase Shakespeare in Richard the III, nothing became George
AS> so much as his being booted out.
RS> That's the only problem with what happened . . . it allowed Goerge to
RS> get too much attention.
AS> IF this his idea of attention and publicity, he ought to fire his
AS> publicity agent...
Perhaps. My brother does this, though . . . he'll get himself buried
under a mountain of trouble, and afterwards when we look at what
happened, there will be no logical reason behind any of it. We've long
since just concluded that he's an attention junkie and will do anything
just to get some attention. After all, bad attention is still
attention . . .
And, the admit it, George was the center of attention there for a
while, wasn't he? It can be addictive, I think . . .
... Vultures only fly with carrion luggage.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Your Daily Murder
|Date: 25 Apr 96 02:29:22
EID:220e 209913a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f1bc2
Gemantria:
___
(((Al*[X1])2^Richard)Your Daily Murder[X2])=[X3]04-23-96 01:00
---
AS> That's pretty desperate. The theory of the buzz, that history moves
AS> in the way of the most caffeine. I'm sure there is a thesis lurking
AS> here, somewhere...
RS> Well then, we can't leave out the quest for other drugs as well . .
.
RS> tobacco, heroin, marijuana, etc. It makes the Middle Ages almost
RS> seem like the sixties, you know? };)
AS> Sorry, Man, did you say something? I just had a flashback....
No man, I was just groovin' on the patterns . . . };)
I was talking this stuff over with an old old friend, and we took note
recently of the fact that drugs don't even have friendly names anymore.
Our generation used to have strawberry mesc(aline), orange sunshine
(acid), tai stick (pot), black beauties (speed), etc. Nowadays,
everything is cold and clinical in the drug world, and drugs aren't
marketed as the fun mind-expanding consciousness-raising experience
that they were in the sixties. Not that I mind . . . I don't care to
have my kids thinking that drugs are fun. But still its a sad thing to
think of it as being commerical, whereas before it seemed to just be
fun. (However, I was just taking stock . . . I don't think I've even
SEEN any pot in ten years or more, and I'm lucky if I drink six
six-packs a year . . . if it wasn't for the wine used in my worship, I
would be entirely drug free, except for caffience and chocolate . . . )
... Hester Prynne got an A for adultery. I barely made a C-minus.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Damien Wellman
|Sub: Our Daily Alien
|Date: 25 Apr 96 02:33:24
EID:a246 20991420
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f1cb4
Gemantria:
___
(((Damien*[X1])2^Richard)Our Daily Alien[X2])=[X3]04-22-96 21:02
---
DW> :: From: Richard Smith To: Al Schroeder Subj: Our Daily Alien ::
RS> I think this a neat idea. I've always been struck between the
RS> similarities between the UFO people and vampire legends. Same pasty
RS> grey/white skin, big dark eyes, etc. Same activities during the
RS> night, similar interactions with bodily fluid, etc. Maybe there's an
RS> archetype here . . .
DW> UFO tales also show them as acting like super-stereotypical research
DW> scientists - to be expected, since that is apparently the "reason" for
DW> most reported UFO abductions.
Uh, yeah . . .
. . . of course, both supposedly cause irrational behavior. Just as
Dracula did with Renfield, the ETs are supposed to make people here
crazy.
I never could figure it out. If *I* was convinced that I was being
serially abducted by ETs, I'd buy a couple of rottweilers. Then I'd
have a friend dress as a grey and beat the crap out of them until there
was no doubt in my mind that if an ET even stepped into the house he
would be dog food. But then, I digress . . .
... The worst thing about censorship is XXXXXXXXXX and it XXXXXXXXXXXXXX!!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: David Worrell
|Sub: Waco rememberance
|Date: 25 Apr 96 02:50:26
EID:377c 20991640
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f20b2
Gemantria:
___
(((Terry*[X1])2^David)Waco rememberance[X2])=[X3]04-23-96 23:01
---
TL> David Worrell wrote in a message to Boni Hitch:
DW> On (16 Apr 96) Boni Hitch wrote to Terry Liberty-Parker...
TL> Regardless of who's responsible for the kids being there, govt was NOT
TL> justified in running tanks thru the kid occupied residence.
BH> I must agree with this. This was a "hostage" situation and required
BH> the same sort of negotiation and stalling tactics.
BH> There was *no* justification for such war-like action. It is Mai Lai
BH> in another era...
DW> Maybe *you* can tell us when and where *tanks* were driven *thru* a
DW> "kid occupied residence". If you can't, why not shut the hell up
DW> about this subject and save yourself some embarrassment?
TL> The 'ordinary' person is likely to refer to an armoured
TL> vehicle as a tank when it's breaching a residence occupied
TL> with men, women and children.
By which he means to say that ignorant people believe that it happened,
ergo, it must have happened. Sigh. Whatta maroon . . . Oh, and look! He's! included! his! stock! quote!
Terry, if you have nothing else to post but this crap and that mega
posting claiming that AIDS was not life-threatening (but AZT is??!!)
and that HIV isn't deadly, why don't you just go have a hunting
accident?
TL> "I couldn't imagine anybody being in a home with that many women and
. . . yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda until its coming out your ears . . .
TL> NO criminal indictments over federal culpablility at Waco.
BTW, in case anyone is wondering what I'm talking about, Terry did a
limited cross post of that Anti-AIDS article here, one segment of it
that was damaged, and nothing more. But it is pseudo science at its
worst, and almost criminal in its claims ("Do not get tested for AIDS",
"Do not take AZT", etc.). If anyone wants, I've captured it from
another echo, so can post it for Terry here if anyone is slightly
interested. It made me bilious . . .
... "Ahhh, AHHHH, I am Cornholio, aaaa aaa aaaahhhh AHHHHHH!" -- Beavis
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Ken Peck
|Sub: Chrysostom's pasha homil
|Date: 25 Apr 96 02:57:28
EID:be8e 20991720
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f2258
Gemantria:
___
(((Ken*[X1])2^Fredric)Chrysostom's pasha homily[X2])=[X3]04-23-96 21:49
---
-=> Quoting Fredric Rice to Ken Peck <=-
> If anyone be devout and a lover of God, enjoy
> this beautiful and radiant Feast of Feasts!
FR> Do you have any evidence for these gods of yours? Any at all?
KP> Only one God, Fredric. And yes I have a lot of evidence.
You only have ONE god? How tragic for you . . .
A lot of us like to keep half a dozen laying around, just in case one
springs a leak . . .
... -- Ken, LoveSlave of the Secret Fire --
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Laura Hodgkins
|Sub: ending
|Date: 25 Apr 96 03:07:30
EID:820d 209918e0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f24b2
Gemantria:
___
(((Laura*[X1])2^All)ending[X2])=[X3]04-24-96 17:46
---
LH> I would just like everyone here to know that this is the last
LH> message I plan on posting in this area?
Well are you or aren't you leaving? The question mark above throws
your statement off. If you _are_ leaving, don't let the doorknob
hit your buttcrack on the way out . . .
LH> Why?
Aw, who cares, Laura? We certainly don't. Take your snit and go.
LH> because I feel sorry for all you people who are so damn....pig
LH> headed, that they can't believe in anything they don't understand,
LH> and criticize others for their beliefs.
Huh? We believe in you, Laura, and we sure don't understand you! Pig
headed? You probably thought that would be an insult, didn't you?
Grow up girlie.
LH> I was under the impression that this was a MATURE base where
LH> people could have DISCUSSION with out insulting one another or there
LH> beliefs.
What planet did you beam in from? Next time, read the rules and some
of the posts before you blindly jump in.
LH> but with the immature people I have found here, I see that
LH> this is not a possibility.
Oh, kick your little feet and pound your tiny fists, why don't you?
LH> so from now on, unless you have something intelligent and mature
LH> to say, please don't bother answering this posting or any others.
Bit of a pompous windbag, aren't you Laura? And a fascist to boot,
trying to control the speech of others. Get over yourself.
LH> once again I pity all of you.
Why? We're smart enough to be able to deal with what this echo hands
out without running screaming for the hills. The refuse heap of
HolySmoke is littered with remains such as yours. But anyone who
sticks it out, who takes the punches and learns, soon discovers how to
be strong in these sorts of situations. If you ASSUMED that all people
would get along here, you've got gnarly nastiness waiting for you in
the real world. You're the one that should be the recipient of pity
. . . you're assaulting the world and you don't even know how to take a
punch. Go ahead . . . run away . . .
... Laura can be outwitted by a jar of marshmallow fluff.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Leonard Bernier
|Sub: Titus 2:13 (NKJV)
|Date: 25 Apr 96 03:12:32
EID:5764 20991980
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f25e0
Gemantria:
___
(((Leonard*[X1])2^All)Titus 2:13 (NKJV)[X2])=[X3]04-24-96 14:01
---
LB> PRAISE GOD !
Who? And which god?
LB> Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of out great God
LB> and Savior Jesus Christ.
. . . looking for a chocolate covered twinkie and a glass of Jolt cola
. . . damn, nothing's manifesting! Oh, well, guess I'll have to make
do. I hate it that you can't count on the Sara Lee fairy anymore to
deliver a carrot cake in the middle of the night . . .
LB> The power to live the Christian life comes from Jesus Christ.
Would that be ergs, or watts?
LB> Because Christ died and rescued us from sin, we are free from sin's
LB> control. He gives us the power and understanding to live according to
LB> God's will, to look forward to His return, and to do good.
Why should I do good? He's taken my sins, I can get away with anything
now! I think I'll load my 30.06 and go find a book repository . . .
LB> Jesus Saved
Saving is nice, but money market funds give a better return rate . . .
... I say we nuke the site from Orbit, it's the only way to be sure
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Mark Barnett
|Sub: Reading mythology and be
|Date: 25 Apr 96 03:19:34
EID:a5da 20991a60
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f2786
Gemantria:
___
(((Mark*[X1])2^Fredric)Reading mythology and bel[X2])=[X3]04-22-96 23:23
---
FR>FR> to exist? Aren't you capabl of understanding that doing so is
FR>FR> no different than picking up a Wonder Woma Comic book and
FR>FR> trying to find a reason to believe that Wonder Woman exists?
FR>mb> not realy the same thing.
FR>Denial of the truth is pretty silly when you can't come
FR>up with some _reason
FR>why you're denying it, Mark. There must be _SOME_
FR>reason why you couldn't c
FR>up with an example on how Wonder Woman and your master's
FR>deity constructs ar
FR>"not the same thing."
FR>Now why is that?
MB> Well for one thing I now who created Wonder Woman.
Well, Wonder Woman's real name is Diana, and She was the Goddess with
no established parentage, so if you know who Her parents were, you're a
step a head. Though she's often linked to Artemis, the connections
there are not clear.
MB> Second I don't get the same feeling reading Wonder Woman that I get
MB> reading the Bible. The Bible chalenge's my mind Wonder Woman does not.
Hmmm . . . but I think Diana looks better in a black teddy than YHVH,
but I may be wrong . . . };)
... Nehi Club Soda on Ice. Tonya's favorite.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Allegory
|Date: 25 Apr 96 03:30:36
EID:7702 20991bc0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f2a1c
Gemantria:
___
(((Al*[X1])2^Michael)ALLEGORY[X2])=[X3]04-23-96 00:06
---
MH> This makes a half-dozen or so unsubstantiated claims of "lying" from
MH> the woman who's so concerned about *my* honesty.
MH> In fact, though, I can't do what she suggests because my sys-op does
MH> not allow pseudonyms. Even if I could, though, I would not. It
MH> wouldn't help anything.
AS> Oh, BOY am I beginning to hate twit filters...
Now we begin to see the wisdom in the statement: No good deed goes
unpunished . . . };)
... I get from solitude what I carry there.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Marilyn Burge
|Sub: [1/3] Allegory 1/2
|Date: 25 Apr 96 04:02:00
EID:c17c 20992040
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f3178
Gemantria:
___
(((Marilyn*[X1])2^Richard)[1/3] Allegory 1/2[X2])=[X3]04-23-96 20:09
---
MB> On (21 Apr 96) Richard Smith wrote to Marilyn Burge...
RS> Gemantria: (((Marilyn*[X1])2^Dan)04-20-96 11:23[X2])=[1/3] ALLEGORY
RS> 1/2[X3]
MB> My fundy friend is pained by his church's stance regarding the
MB> fellowship of smokers, for example. He says that they cannot join
MB> his church, yet an overweight person can. This is true, even
MB> though both behavior patterns are a form of self-abuse.
RS> Sorry to but in here (and no pun intended, really!), but this makes
RS> sense to me as follows: the overweight people and the smokers BOTH
RS> share a bad behavior pattern, that is true. The overweight person
RS> endangers themself. But the smoker, because of second-hand smoke,
RS> etc., also endangers anyone else in the room. However, I'm not sure
RS> as to why they should be banned from the church, usually making it
RS> impossible to smoke in or anywhere around the church is enough to
RS> safeguard health concerns. I'd love to hear what he has to say about
RS> this, btw.
MB> He disagrees with the church's position regarding membership for
MB> smokers. I thought I made that clear. The church's position has
MB> nothing to do with second-hand smoke; it has solely to do with the
MB> church having declared smoking to be a 'sin.'
Ah, now I understand. You had not indicated before that they did so
because it was a sin. That DOES put things in a different light,
doesn't it?
MG> As my friend points
MB> out, it is not a sin that is spelled out in the Bible, and, if the
MB> church's rationale is that it is self-destructive (the body is the
MB> temple of the Holy Spirit, and all that jazz), then they also ought
MB> to deny membership to those who are overweight (but they don't).
Hmm. . . I would have to respectfully disagree, though. But I'm sure
you wouldn't want to hear _my_ rationales on it, though. }:)
... I stamped my feet and wound up in the post office. -- S. Ball
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: The Chinese are all dead
|Date: 25 Apr 96 06:37:02
EID:4962 209934a0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f55ce
Gemantria:
___
(((Katherine*[X1])2^Richard)The Chinese are all dead[X2])=[X3]04-24-96
11:53
---
RS> FR>dm> The Chinese are a notoriously stubborn people.
RS> FR>So much so over a billion of them refuse to be dead? According to
this
RS> FR>Creationist lunatic, they should all be.
RS> KW> Why Fred, they just held their breath.
They
RS> KW> knew that the Christian missionaries would come to save their souls,
RS> KW> if they just could hold out long enough.
RS> . . . and General Francisco Franco is STILL
RS> dead . . . };)
KW> Well, didn't you know, the Land Shark is a direct result of
KW> Satan interfering with God's will. Satan saved the Land Shark from
KW> the flood just so that it could eat all the missionaries Real True
KW> Christians (tm) send to China. And the Chinese are still holding
KW> their breath waiting for them.
No I wasn't aware of that at all . . . Land shark? I've heard of
prairie flounders, but land sharks? };)
... Hey Santa! How much for your list of naughty girls??
PS: Since your Fido has been bad to you, perhaps you haven't heard.
For various reasons that I will go back into if you feel it necessary
to do so, I am not posting under my real name in another account on a
different BBS . . . formerly, you knew me as Norbert Sykes. Merry
Meet! };)
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: The Shrinking Sun
|Date: 25 Apr 96 04:06:04
EID:9258 209920c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f326c
Gemantria:
___
(((Katherine*[X1])2^Richard)The Shrinking Sun[X2])=[X3]04-24-96 11:53
---
RS> FR> "The Shrinking Sun", creationists took statements like the
RS> FR> following:
RS> FR> "The amount of apparent shrinkage was extraordinary."
RS> FR> "If the sun were to continue shrinking at the rate of 2
RS> FR> seconds or arc per century, it would disappear in 960
RS> FR> centuries."
RS> KW> Are you telling me that the fundies believe in an Omniwhateverittakes
RS> KW> God who cant even make a Sun that isn't shrinking? What happened,
did
RS> KW> God wash it in all that hot water from the flood? That they want
me
RS> KW> to worship a God who doesn't even know that you have to block a
sun
RS> KW> after you wash it in hot flood water? 'Lord, but male deities are
RS> KW> dumb.' -!-
RS> Apparently it never occurred to YHVH that he had to separate the colors
RS> from the whites and delicates. But that's how a lot of us guys do
RS> laundry anyway, just toss it all in, add half a box of detergent, and
RS> look for the halftime shows . . . };)
KW> Well, that explains the flood it's self.
Yep, overflow from the washing machine . . .
KW> And that's how the limestone
KW> got on top of the mountains--the earth shrank.
If YHVH had had foresight, he'd have made the earth out of synthetic
fabric that wouldn't shrink or fade in the sunlight . . . where was his
head?
KW> I really think that if God isn't going to take any better
KW> care of his toys, they should be taken away from him.
Okay. You're elected. Go take his toys away. };)
... -- Katherine, LoveSlave of the Secret Fire --
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Our Daily Religious ET
|Date: 25 Apr 96 04:12:06
EID:a706 20992180
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f33d6
Gemantria:
___
(((J.j.*[X1])2^Richard)Our Daily Religious ET[X2])=[X3]04-24-96 10:41
---
JH> On Apr 22 00:43 96, Richard Smith of 1:105/64 wrote:
RS> * Copied (from: NIGHT_SHIFT) by Richard Smith using timEd
JH> Just what in the hell is supposed to be the topic of the
JH> Night_Shift echo(s)? And who in the hell is Gramps Kersarge?
JH> People refer to him as though he was some sort of celebrity or
JH> authority on something.
I've never listened to him personally. He's an (usually AM) talk radio
host . . . you know, an opinionated buffoon with a microphone. I have
listened to another of his contemporaries, Art Bell. Lots of UFO
stuff, etc. You should check out your local AM stations. Amusing fare
for those insomniacs that want their mind iddling. Anyway, the
six or so Night Shift echos revolve around various radio personalities
and topics of what is called the Night Shift, the midnight to morning
broadcasting of people like Kersarge and Bell. Kersarge is apparently
local to this area, though he is syndicated I believe. On the echo he
comes off as a pompous asshole, but who am I to judge? };) No, he's
just someone with an axe to grind and a microphone for fun . . .
... The world is indeed comic, but the joke is on mankind.-H.P. Lovecraft
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Heavenly Father
|Date: 25 Apr 96 04:14:08
EID:5d51 209921c0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f3450
Gemantria:
___
(((J.j.*[X1])2^Richard)Heavenly Father[X2])=[X3]04-24-96 10:48
---
JH> On Apr 22 18:17 96, Richard Smith of 1:203/9046 wrote:
RS> Hmmm . . . I'd be interested in any of those. I have Lao
RS> Tsu and the Catholic Apocrypha as well as various Hebrew
RS> texts.
JH> I'd like the Tao' te Ching myself...
RS> Come to think of it, I do believe I already have the
RS> Koran and perhaps the Book of Mormon as well . . . but the
RS> `Big Book' would be priceless on disk . . .
JH> It's yours for the asking.
JH> How do you suggest I send it to you?
Maybe we can arrange a trade. I'll make sure I have the Tao before I
commit, and if you just drop me a note at my e-mail address so I can
give you a snail address, we can swap disks. That would work out for
me. Between then and now I'll find out if I do indeed have the Tao
(I'm almost positive.).
... 93:9620/400 richard.smith@syrundry.gigo.com 1:203/9046
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: The Raven
|Sub: We've been had!
|Date: 25 Apr 96 04:16:10
EID:7cad 20992200
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f34ca
Gemantria:
___
(((The*[X1])2^Richard)We've been had![X2])=[X3]04-23-96 16:12
---
TR> "This just in from our Moscow Bureau..."
SA> George got you, got you, got you, and got me too. And our
SA> little dogs, too.
JH> I for one am not so easily amused.
RS> Nor am I.
TR> That makes three of us.
Hear no evil, see no evil, kick the crap outta evil? };)
... ...some days I pray to the God of sex & drugs & rock n' roll.Meat Loaf
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: My Book
|Date: 25 Apr 96 04:17:12
EID:1814 20992220
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f3508
Gemantria:
___
(((Jim*[X1])2^Richard)My Book[X2])=[X3]04-24-96 12:17
---
JS> On (21 Apr 96) Richard Smith wrote to J.J. Hitt...
RS> I can understand the latter, as well as the former. Still, it
RS> had to make interesting phone bills. George must have worked hard
at
RS> seriously pissing off enough SysOps in his own area to make the long
RS> distance attractive . . .
JS> Very hard...for a number of years. There are many FIDO boards in the
JS> G.R. area.
Well, that would explain that, eh? };)
... "Is this sodomy?" asked Frank, half in Earnest.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Carl Laws
|Sub: Sos
|Date: 25 Apr 96 04:58:18
EID:8b8c 20992740
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f3eaa
Gemantria:
___
(((Carl*[X1])2^All)SOS[X2])=[X3]04-23-96 14:40
---
CL> Well, folks, I'm a bit disappointed.
Who cares, Carl?
CL> I had hoped to find in this group an intelligent discussion of
CL> religion and its relevance to modern life, but instead I see the Same
CL> Old Shit.
As you are aparently a connoisseur of shit, that should be high praise
indeed. However, if you ever tire of being a scarab, then read on and
learn. Either way, if you don't like it, take a walk.
CL> Creationists v. Evolutionists
. . . and what agenda do YOU follow, pray tell?
CL> Get over it! They're both _theories_, items of faith, belief,
CL> whatever you want to call it. So agree to disagree and then move on.
Seig Heil der Information Officer . . . Just when did you begin to
have these delusions that you were the moderator around here?
CL> And the arguments about whether Adolf Hitler was or was not a
CL> Christian is the most sophomoric debate I have ever run into. Hasn't
CL> anyone ever heard the phrase "lip service"? For Christ's sake
CL> (actually, for your _own_), get a grip!
Oh, bite me Carl. I'll talk about anything I want to talk about and if
it annoys the moderator, I'll get booted out. Until then, shut up you
ignorant sack of crap.
CL> Next, I presume, will be the perennial favorite...How many angels can
CL> sit on the head of a pin?
You hang around in slow circles, don't you Carl?
CL> Finally, when I d/l'ed this mail packet, all 50 msgs were from the
CL> same individual. In and of itself, there's nothing wrong with that.
CL> At least in some of his rebuttals there were actual _documents_ cited
CL> as source material. But the flaming got a bit tiresome. I can get
CL> that at home; I don't need it here.
Awfully hoity toity for someone that fails to cite sources himself.
And if you don't like flaming, boy george, are you in the wrong place.
Get over it.
CL> My high message pointer is still way behind, so I'm going to see how
CL> the next couple hundred msgs go before I make a decision on this
CL> conference.
And I reiterate: who gives a fuck, Carl?
... Let me pull finger on little Carls & deficate them in Fantasia.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Coridon Henshaw
|Sub: Credibility
|Date: 25 Apr 96 05:01:20
EID:8a32 20992820
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f3f60
Gemantria:
___
(((Coridon*[X1])2^Robert)Credibility[X2])=[X3]04-23-96 22:45
---
CH> *** Answering a msg posted in area PERSONAL (PERSONAL).
CH> On Saturday April 20 1996 at 01:32, Robert Jackson wrote to Al
CH> Schroeder:
RJ> And well, nobody seemed to like Coridon, and that feeling seemed to
be
RJ> more than mutual on his part.
CH> That's not quite true. I don't dislike many on the heathen
CH> side. There are only three members of the regular heathen
CH> complement that I consider to be assholes. You're not one
CH> of them.
I'm kinda curious to see who you consider heathen and who isn't. I am
wondering if you just base this on a Judeo-Xtian centric position or on
the actually original meaning of the word.
CH> Even though I don't read any traffic, my mail robots
CH> continue to direct mail about me to my attention. You lot
CH> can't badmouth me without my knowing about it. :-)
I wasn't aware that we were talking about you at all, Coridon. };)
CH> --
CH> Do you know any CDA supporters? Send netmail with their names and
CH> they will be added to a blacklist of TRAITORS.
My, this seems awfuly fascistic . . .
... "Incontinence Hotline.... Can you hold, please?"
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Life in the fast lane.
|Date: 25 Apr 96 05:20:22
EID:b281 20992a80
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f43d6
Gemantria:
___
(((Don*[X1])2^Karl)Life in the fast lane.[X2])=[X3]04-24-96 12:37
---
JH> RB> Too bad Marlin Perkins died.
JH> How did it happen?
JH> One too many hits off of the tranquilizer gun?
KS> Wasn't he the guy who ate pebbles and twigs?
DM> You're thinking perhaps of Euell Gibbons, who did a
DM> whole series of books on eating things you find in the woods
DM> (Stalking the Wild Asparagus, etc.). Marlin (or is it
DM> Marlon?) Perkins was an animal guy and an early TV person on
DM> "Zooparade" in the 50s. He was later (and older) on another
DM> show for Mutual of Omaha, in which he was forever talking to
DM> the camera from a position of safety while his faithful
DM> assistant roused the buffalo, found the hornet's nest, or
DM> whatever.
Mutual of Omaha's Wild Kingdom. The sidekick was Jim
something-or-other . . .
... CROWDS RUSHING TO SEE POPE TRAMPLE 6 TO DEATH. -- Headline (R.Lederer)
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: George Ambler
|Sub: why
|Date: 25 Apr 96 05:24:24
EID:3a43 20992b00
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f44c8
Gemantria:
___
(((George*[X1])2^Terri)why[X2])=[X3]04-24-96 11:31
---
-=> Quoting Terri Nelson to All <=-
TN> Why debate "religion"??? Why not just share on "relationship" with
TN> Jesus??? This is NOT dead stuff as religion often is, with rules and
TN> doctrines. This is living, loving, obeying cuz of love and wanting
TN> others to know freely. No debate necessary.
GA> Yes, I fully agree with you, after all what is LIFE without Jesus ?
Without who?
... "Aside from that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you enjoy the play?"
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Grant Farrington
|Sub: Genesis problems [1/4]
|Date: 25 Apr 96 05:26:26
EID:f106 20992b40
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f4542
Gemantria:
___
(((Grant*[X1])2^The)Genesis problems [1/4][X2])=[X3]04-23-96 16:16
---
TR> the flood was real, this means that Noah wasn't human. Since Noah
TR> wasn't human, he must have been of another species *otehr* than human.
GF> Well Noah & family were probably a "kind" :)
GF> So when he screwed his sons wives & daughters, their inbred
GF> offspring sprouted all the races we know of today :)
Daughters?
... Does the name Pavlov ring a bell?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Re: Poor Little White Bo
|Date: 25 Apr 96 05:31:28
EID:fd44 20992be0
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f4670
Gemantria:
___
(((J.j.*[X1])2^Jim)Re: Poor Little White Boy[X2])=[X3]04-25-96 03:14
---
JH> On Apr 18 17:10 96, Jim Germiquet of 1:250/618 wrote:
JG> We are talking about how women have a government organization
JG> set up to fight men who now are threatened with not getting free
JG> legal aid in divorce and custody cases. Equal rights ? Or unfair
JG> womens rights?
JH> And just what is the name of this "government organization" ?
I think it's a secret. Shhhhh.... };)
... Do mimes listen to blank tapes?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Life in the fast lane.
|Date: 25 Apr 96 05:33:30
EID:d70e 20992c20
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f46ea
Gemantria:
___
(((J.j.*[X1])2^Robert)Life in the fast lane.[X2])=[X3]04-25-96 03:57
---
JH> On Apr 24 12:55 96, Robert Jackson of 1:3828/1 wrote:
JH>> RB> Too bad Marlin Perkins died.
JH>> How did it happen?
JH>> One too many hits off of the tranquilizer gun?
KS>> Wasn't he the guy who ate pebbles and twigs?
RJ> That's Euel Gibbons.
JH> Ahh... at least you understood what he was asking.
JH> I thought Karl had slipped a cam.
JH> Euel was cool (cuel?). Before he settled down and became a
JH> writer, he traveled around as a drifter and his survival lore
JH> is all from first hand experience. It's unfortunate that the
JH> Grape Nuts commercials portrayed him as some sort of freak.
I liked him too, but he was odd. He was apparently a hypochondriac,
and used to take between 300-400 aspirins a day, according to what I've
seen written. I've even been told it contributed to his death . . .
his blood was too thin . . .
... Are those cookies made with real Girl Scouts?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Our Deadly Doctrine
|Date: 25 Apr 96 05:35:32
EID:b700 20992c60
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f4764
Gemantria:
___
(((J.j.*[X1])2^Robert)Our Deadly Doctrine[X2])=[X3]04-25-96 04:07
---
JH> On Apr 24 10:54 96, Robert Jackson of 1:3828/1 wrote:
RJ> Oh, what I meant was "do tripping people think you look
RJ> like Jesus too?" Of course, it may've helped that one time
RJ> when two of my friends were sitting on the floor in the
RJ> living room and I staggered through wrapped in a torn sheet
RJ> and a thorny crown, dragging an 8-foot cross on my
RJ> shoulder.
JH> Do you get cross draggers in your part of the country also?
JH>
JH> I see at least one or two a year around here. Don't really know
JH> where they come from or where they are going, but you'll see
JH> them trudgeing along the shoulder of some rural highway with
JH> thier cross and a dozen or so small signs tacked to their person
JH> and their cross.
JH> What always tickles me is that many of them add a wheel to the
JH> base of the cross to make it easier to drag along.
I wonder if they ever ride the wheels down the hills? Wouldn't THAT be
a hoot, to be on the interstate and some bearded guy wrapped around a
huge cross passes you going down the hill? I think Great America needs
a new ride!
... A countryman between two lawyers is like a fish between two cats.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Joe Shedlock
|Sub: "Memnoch" (2)
|Date: 25 Apr 96 06:03:34
EID:aac5 20993060
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f4df6
Gemantria:
___
(((Joe*[X1])2^Al)"Memnoch" (2)[X2])=[X3]04-24-96 00:42
---
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Joe Shedlock on 04-22-96 06:06 <=-
JS> I bought a copy of "Memnoch." Read it and it has been sitting around
AS> Actually, I have been somewhat unimpressed by Anne Rice, but I might
AS> have just read the wrong ones. For modern vampire stories, I like
AS> SALEM'S LOT...the vampire as a metaphor-for-sex thing has been done
AS> to death, so I liked it for the way it went back to the idea of
AS> vampire as monster.
JS> Let's "unpack" some of your statements here:
JS> 1) The going "back" to the idea of vampire as monster implies
JS> a chronology where there is
JS> Time Period 1--Vampire as (Simply) Monster, followed by
JS> Time Period 2--Vampire's Blood Lust as Metaphor for Sexual Lust,
JS> then Time Period 3--Return to Vampire as (Simply) Monster.
JS> I would question this--just to be contradictory? no--only because it
JS> is not my understanding of the vampire literature. In Bram Stoker's
JS> "Dracula" you have the idea of metaphor for sexual lust very well
JS> developed. This is the earliest piece of vampire literature that
JS> I have encountered. If you are familiar with something earlier,
JS> please let me know.
Are we talking just in English, or anywhere in the world? In English,
some of the more well-known:
1800 Wake Not The Dead by Johann Ludwig Tieck
1816 Christabel by Lord Byron or Coleridge? (Exact attribution fails
me right now.)
1819 The Vampyre by Dr. John Polidori
1845 Varney the Vampyre, or, The Feast of Blood by James Malcolm Rymer
1870 Carmilla by Sheridan Le Fanu
1897 Dracula by Bram Stoker
But in German we find:
1798 Die Braut von Korint (The Bride of Korinth) by Goethe
So we have vampire literature about a hundred years before Dracula.
Btw, please note that Al wasn't referring to written stuff entirely,
folklore and local superstition would be included in what Al had
posted. He hadn't narrowed the definition down that far. Still, you
could be correct.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Sources:
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The Penguin Book of Vampire Stories, edited by Alan Ryan,
ISBN 0-14-010987-0
The Penguin Encyclopedia of Horror and the Supernatural, edited by
Jack Sullivan, ISBN 0-670-80902-0
--------------------------------------------------------------------
... -- Joe, LoveSlave of the Secret Fire --
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Richard Smith
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: You Can Get Help
|Date: 25 Apr 96 06:36:36
EID:13e9 20993480
MSGID: 1:203/9046.0 317f55b4
Gemantria:
___
(((Katherine*[X1])2^Jim)You Can Get Help[X2])=[X3]04-24-96 11:53
---
JS>On (16 Apr 96) DAVID RICE wrote to JIM STAAL...
JS> DR> It is obvious that you are suffering, so when I noticed an
JS> DR> ad in Scientific American today that addresses your terrible
JS> DR> problem, I thought I'd send the info your way.
JS> DR> Please call 1-800-215-9377 or visit their Internet site at
JS> DR> http://www.impotent.com
JS> DR> You're welcome.
JS>What else is their to say, Shy, other than...tsk.
KW> I understand that the most successful treatment to date is no longer
KW> considered to be splitting open the penis and implanting silicon rods
KW> (the never ending hard-on) or inflatable bladders (don't even think
KW> about a blow out) with a pump. It seems that now the 'in' treatment
is
KW> to inject drugs directly into the penis. The major drawback to this
KW> technique (other than, of course, the patients tendency to take one
KW> look at the needle, grab his penis, and run screaming out the door)
is
KW> that a slight miscalibration of the dosage can cause a painful
KW> condition where it just keeps swelling. Emergency dept. crews try not
KW> to let it show how amusing this phenomena is.
KW> Okay, guys, you can unclench now. I'm finished. ;)
LOL I somehow don't think you've dissuaded most of the men I know,
needle or not. Just repeat to them "never ending hard-on" or "it just
keeps swelling" and watch them line up. They'd probably prefer to get
the injections in front of other guys, just so they can prove how tough
they are. BTW, I _did_ clench up during that post . . . its a little
after six in the morning, and I'm totally awake now. Thanx! };)
... 93:9620/400 richard.smith@syrundry.gigo.com 1:203/9046
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: Syr Undry (1:203/9046)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/0 333 992 1102 3333 8055 9046 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 203/9046 1102 992 270/101 218/801
|From: Elliott Finesse
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: Re: BRANHAM
|Date: 27 Apr 96 01:11:00
EID:7969 209b0960
MSGID: 1:215/130 00020e55
In a message dated 04-20-96 Anthony Grigor-Scott wrote to J.J. Hitt:
Rational moral atheist to silly religious wacko, over
> AS>> Oh! Talking of reports of miracles. I wasn't having much
> AS>> success finding an unbiased report of Brother Branham,
> JH>> See if you can snag a bibliography.
>
> Check out Reader's Digest and Life Magazine.
Notice he said _UN_biased reports.
---
TIMM 1.0.2 - The Ideal Mac Mailreader.
* Origin: The Communications Connection (1:215/130)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 215/33 130 200 400
SEEN-BY: 215/427 705 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 215/130 200 705 270/101 218/801
|From: Elliott Finesse
|To: Terri Nelson
|Sub: Re: why
|Date: 27 Apr 96 01:11:00
EID:36fe 209b0960
MSGID: 1:215/130 00020e5d
In a message dated 04-23-96 Terri Nelson wrote to All :
> Why debate "religion"??? Why not just share on "relationship" with Jes
> This is NOT dead stuff as religion often is, with rules and doctrines.
> living, loving, obeying cuz of love and wanting others to know freely.
> debate necessary.
Notice Mike, and Al: the "carrot" he offers you say doesn't exist?
Because of all the nasty things that religion encourages in so damn many
people. Please Don't deny or try to shift blame away from religion. We
don't care to listen to words to the contrary _without_ evidence behind
them. Been there, done that lot's.
I'd also have a real problem hanging with the vicious murdering god in the
old testament even if he existed.
---
TIMM 1.0.2 - The Ideal Mac Mailreader.
* Origin: The Communications Connection (1:215/130)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 215/33 130 200 400
SEEN-BY: 215/427 705 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 215/130 200 705 270/101 218/801
|From: Elliott Finesse
|To: Mark Barnett
|Sub: Reasons
|Date: 27 Apr 96 01:12:00
EID:2643 209b0980
MSGID: 1:215/130 00020e66
In a message dated 04-22-96 Mark Barnett wrote to Fredric Rice:
> Have you ever noticed that the bad apples get all of the notarity.
Not so, Mark. Religion has a pretty big lock on the attitudes of this
society, especially Christianity. It is taken for granted that churches
and religions are good. But religions have also encouraged people to very
bad behavior, while releasing them from responsibility for it.
Do you know why I say that? Because those who believe God is on their
side, are almost always willing to go to greater extremes if asked. They
are less likely to question the actions of their leaders or their own. If
God is on your side, then you think you must be on the correct side - even
if you really are not.
Religion also encourages immorality in some people. Anyway, understand,
it is not for sadistic kicks that (most of us anyway) do and say what we
do.
Bye
---
TIMM 1.0.2 - The Ideal Mac Mailreader.
* Origin: The Communications Connection (1:215/130)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 215/33 130 200 400
SEEN-BY: 215/427 705 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 215/130 200 705 270/101 218/801
|From: Elliott Finesse
|To: Fredric Rice
|Sub: Mark
|Date: 27 Apr 96 01:12:00
EID:752b 209b0980
MSGID: 1:215/130 00020e6e
In a message dated 04-22-96 Mark Barnett wrote to Fredric Rice:
> FR>Your statement shows that you know nothing of science. You seem to
> FR>pretend that computer programing requires science. It doesn't.
>
Mark seems without guile. He is one of the first Christians I've seen in
a
long time who appears to seriously try to emulate the positive attributes
of JC. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think we should punish bad behavior and
encourage good behavior, regardless of the underlying philosophy.
---
TIMM 1.0.2 - The Ideal Mac Mailreader.
* Origin: The Communications Connection (1:215/130)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 215/33 130 200 400
SEEN-BY: 215/427 705 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137
SEEN-BY: 270/101 102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 215/130 200 705 270/101 218/801
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: test
|Date: 26 Apr 96 06:17:12
EID:64c6 209a3220
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 65ed8edf
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 317d2828
MG>> Did you order a large sausage....
DM> Kosher, yet.
Just another impossible thing at breakfast.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: ALL
|Sub: ending
|Date: 26 Apr 96 06:20:46
EID:2887 209a3280
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 65ed97c7
REPLY: 1:322/746 05a6d593
LH> I would just like everyone here to know that this is the last
LH> message I plan on posting in this area? Why? because I feel
LH> sorry for all you people who are so damn....pig headed, that
LH> they can't believe in anything they don't understand, and
LH> criticize others for their beliefs. I was under the
LH> impression that this was a MATURE base where people could
LH> have DISCUSSION with out insulting one another or there
LH> beliefs. but with the immature people I have found here, I
LH> see that this is not a possibility. so from now on, unless
LH> you have something intelligent and mature to say, please
LH> don't bother answering this posting or any others. once again
LH> I pity all of you. -!- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.1
LH> ! Origin: The Caldron BBS : 508-821-9685 (1:322/746)
Oh my. I guess I'll just have to start believing in god now.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Ken Peck
|Sub: Chrysostom's pasha homily
|Date: 26 Apr 96 06:21:32
EID:e62b 209a32a0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 65ed98bf
REPLY: 1:130/1017.0 8969A236
KP> Only one God, Fredric. And yes I have a lot of evidence.
Could you, like, show it to us?
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Tracey Rea
|Sub: Re: Kenneth the neo-atheist
|Date: 26 Apr 96 06:23:18
EID:00c1 209a32e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 65eda161
REPLY: 1:2424/654 317d28d7
TR> I defy you to prove that there is no God...
You do not "prove" logical negatives.
TR> Are you saying that you were put on this earth (by whatever
TR> means) just to end up as either fertilizer or worm food? What do
We were not put on this Earth for any reason. We are here by the grace
of natural laws such as thermodynamics, evolution, and kinetics.
TR> you believe happens when you die? Do you believe in an
You become worm food.
TR> after-life (of any kind)? Just because a person cannot
There is no evidence for an afterlife, so I don't believe in one. do you
have evidence otherwise? for that matter, do ylu have any evidence, outside
of the bible, that god exists?
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: ALLEGORY
|Date: 26 Apr 96 06:26:41
EID:4f25 209a3340
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 65eda649
REPLY: 1:116/19 04DC6F96
AS> Maybe God feels the same thing about free will. That it is a
AS> principle that must be stuck to...that "almost-free-will" is
AS> as bad as no free will at all.
Ergo, your god's imperfection. Free Will Willie drives drunka nd kills
a two year old. Where your god's justice in that?
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: HIV is 'Harmless' and does NOT 'cause' AIDS
|Date: 26 Apr 96 10:11:56
EID:9804 209a5160
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 65efc148
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 65d1d67a
TL>> As you read this paper, remind yourself of the most
TL>> important point: from the very beginning there has never
TL>> been any scientific proof that HIV plays a role in AIDS.
JH> Comments, Herr Doktor?
This is the same sort of claim as "There is no evidence that the erth is
round." There are some reasons to doubt some of the mechanisms of viral
infection. There may be some routes that we do not know yet. However,
if yout ake a popultion of CD 4+ lymphocytes and culture them with HIV it
is possible to get complete cell lysis.
There is alsmot a 100% correlation between PCR data and AIDS infection.
In otherwords, the HIV DNA is always there while it is absent in those that
do not have AIDS.
TL>> -Virology is a "secret" field open only to insiders, no one
TL>> else has the right to question it. Virologists wield much
TL>> influence in the medical field.
This is so much nonsense. From the initials, I don't know which cretis
it is, but one hopes that he has some evidence to back this up rather than
a few baseless claims. I know more than a few virologists. They would
laugh heartily t this as they believe the same thing about immunologists.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: ANGEL FUNDY
|Date: 26 Apr 96 10:33:30
EID:5efa 209a5420
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 65efee03
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 8968438F
MH> It just seems sensible that if you're going to cite authorities
MH> for changing scientific fields, you should find the most
MH> recent ones available. When I was in college, there was an
MH> astronomy text in the library's historical collection that
MH> had been published in the late 19th century. It said there
MH> are eight planets around the sun, the eighth one named "The
MH> Herschel." If I wanted to make a case for something about
MH> astronomy, I wouldn't cite that book as a reference.
It is a reasonable request that authorities cited should be the most recent.
But while I call for people who post here to give us some recent articles,
there are some that do not change. I am not familiar with the field of
biblical archeology. I have no idea wht was found at Jericho. Thsi is
why I aksed if you had anything to dispute Dr. Asimov's stuff. You say
that there are articles that have to do with what happened there. I say
"fine". Let's know what they are. I'm always after the truth.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Chrysostom's Pasha Homily
|Date: 26 Apr 96 11:15:16
EID:4052 209a59e0
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 65f0499e
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 896A0E40
MG>> Ok...you got me. I like to eat it better than spell it.
DC> Then, I'll just keep ladling it on and wash it down with a
DC> Bourdeux or a good Bourgelaise.
Bourjelais?
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Mark Barnett
|Sub: ANGEL FUNDY
|Date: 26 Apr 96 11:17:21
EID:7143 209a5a20
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 65f0501e
REPLY: 1:3819/163 317F1262
MB> No I'm not afraid to believe anything that is not in the Bible,
MB> Why are you afriad of believing anything in the Bible?
Because it is based on a lie...ie that there is an existant god.
There is no more evidence for any god than there is for flying hippos.
therefore, like the aforementioned myths, I must assume they do not exist.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Mark Barnett
|Sub: ANGEL FUNDY
|Date: 26 Apr 96 11:18:41
EID:7143 209a5a40
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 65f05255
REPLY: 1:3819/163 317F1263
MG>>Why does your god send plagues, fmaines, floods, disease, and
MG>>so forth. all he needs to do is make this a perfect universe.
MG>> Instead, he murders us.
MB> He whants us to deiced to fallow him.
Hell of a way to do it. Didn't anyone ever tell your god that he could
catch more flies with honey than with vinegar? The whole thing is ridiculous.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Mark Barnett
|Sub: ANGEL FUNDY
|Date: 26 Apr 96 11:19:38
EID:7143 209a5a60
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 65f054bc
REPLY: 1:3819/163 317F1264
MG>>That is not an answer. The question is "The fact that god
MG>>made an error (won't do it again) mens he is not perfect.
MG>>[ ] Yes
MG>>[X] No
MB> The Lord did not make a mistake.
Then why did he say that he would never do it again. It was bovious to
him that it was something that should not be repeated. In other words,
maybe he should have found another way to correct things.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Martin Goldberg
|To: Carl Laws
|Sub: SOS
|Date: 26 Apr 96 11:28:18
EID:9401 209a5b80
MSGID: 1:124/9005.221 65f0699a
REPLY: 1:100/4.0 89690D0D
CL> Creationists v. Evolutionists
CL> Get over it! They're both _theories_, items of faith, belief,
CL> whatever you want to call it. So agree to disagree and then
CL> move on.
You are speaking of a mythology vs a scientific discipline that has mounds
of evidence to back it up. Those that want to see it dropped for any reason
are usually those ont he losing side of the arguement.
--- msgedsq 2.1
* Origin: You can't kill a man born to hang. (1:124/9005.221)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 124/9005 1 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: John Brawley
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: We've been had!
|Date: 26 Apr 96 11:18:54
EID:762a 209a5a40
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 51a5e879
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 17e519c0
On 24 Apr 96, Mimi Milstein wrote:
MM> Hello John!
Hello, Mimi....
MM> John Brawley wrote in a message to Styx Allum:
JB> Lastly, I wish you to know that I have no feelings pro or
JB> con regarding your expulsion of George. That was
JB> apparently based partially on previous and cumulative
JB> George-isms that _I_ had nothing to do with. All I wanted
JB> was for him to return my book, and I was willing to say
JB> whatever he wanted to hear, to achieve that.
JB> Thank you, though, for your support while that goal was
JB> achieved.
MM> I am so pleased for you, John. Your behavior in this sordid
MM> episode has been beyond reproach IMHO.
Thanks. My sole "agenda" was to get my book back. I had precious
little "ego" invested in it otherwise.
MM> My personal feeling is that I hope Styx will never admit George
MM> to HOLYSMOKE again - we really don't need this kind of creeps here.
MM> Confrontational discussions can be great fun, but that is not at
MM> all what George represents - only twisted viciousness.
My experience with George runs back years. His actions were, I admit, a
bit surprising to me, but not totally out of character for him. I think
it's best we all just forget it now, and go on.
MM> I am surprised that Sue took his 'joke' at face value. I see it
MM> quite differently. The guy started to get hot under the collar
MM> when all the msgs on possible prosecution appeared. Only then did
MM> he realize the consequences of his 'playfulness', got scared, and
MM> immediately got rid of the book in the only acceptable way open
MM> for him.
I was almost as surprised at Sue's message vis-a-vis George's off-camera
conversation with her as I was at George's action. I don't think Sue
is all that easily fooled. I'm still curious about what he could have
said to her that would lead her to write that message....
MM> Nothing funny, noble, or friendly about that. Just the way most
MM> bullies behave when cornered; selfserving and lying to the end.
One wants to give the benefit of the doubt wherever possible.
Sometimes it's not possible.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Not all questions worth asking have answers...
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 100/4 265 435 525 757 102/735 890 103/2 104/821
SEEN-BY: 105/103 107/411 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 218/801
|From: John Brawley
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: MY BOOK
|Date: 26 Apr 96 11:25:59
EID:36b8 209a5b20
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 ec84c546
REPLY: 1:116/19 04DE13FA
On 23 Apr 96, Al Schroeder wrote:
SA> He's not liable for anything. I found the book in my mailbox late
JB> HALLELUJAH!
JB> I hereby break my silence.
AS> I'm sorry you had to go through that, John. Truly.
Your sympathy is appreciated.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... WOMBAT: Waste Of Money, Bandwidth, And Time
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 100/4 265 435 525 757 102/735 890 103/2 104/821
SEEN-BY: 105/103 107/411 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 218/801
|From: John Brawley
|To: Carl Laws
|Sub: SOS
|Date: 26 Apr 96 11:29:09
EID:cf88 209a5ba0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 2f3fe4ce
REPLY: 1:100/4.0 89690D0D
On 23 Apr 96, Carl Laws wrote:
CL> I had hoped to find in this group an intelligent discussion of
CL> religion and its relevance to modern life, but instead I see the Same
CL> Old Shit.
What did you expect? This "old shit" is _thousands_ of years old, and
it ain't died out even yet.....
CL> Creationists v. Evolutionists
CL> Get over it! They're both _theories_, items of faith, belief,
CL> whatever you want to call it. So agree to disagree and then move on.
Inaccurate. One has supportive empirical -evidence- in the real world
("scientifically sane reasons to believe it"), and the other does not;
one is a "theory" under the specific meaning of that term within the
sciences --the other has faith. Faith is a property of a belief system;
science is an _empirical_ system.
Agreeing to disagree and then moving on is sage advice, but it is not
_practical_ advice, since both systems have properties that disallow
departure from attempted resolution. For example, the belief system
requires efforts-to-"save," on the part of its adherents (they can't
"leave it alone") and the empirical system demands acceptance or
rejection, with the former settling feathers and the latter seeming
insane in the face of experimental "truth."
CL> My high message pointer is still way behind, so I'm going to see how
CL> the next couple hundred msgs go before I make a decision on this
CL> conference.
Try the next few _thousand_. Traffic in here runs "a couple hundred"
per DAY.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... "There can be only One." --Connor McLeod
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 100/4 265 435 525 757 102/735 890 103/2 104/821
SEEN-BY: 105/103 107/411 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 218/801
|From: John Brawley
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Question
|Date: 26 Apr 96 11:39:40
EID:cc6a 209a5ce0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 a9e8d9bb
REPLY: 1:116/19 04DE4AAA
On 23 Apr 96, Al Schroeder wrote:
AS> Someone made an interesting statement in church; there are many
AS> attributes attributed to God in the Bible...knows all things,
AS> glorious, etc...but only three in the original Greek which can be
AS> read as "identity", as
AS> interchangeable with God. He is living. He is a Spirit. And He is
AS> Love. What does that imply about Creation? That God NEEDED to create
AS> something, so there would be something to love. And it says something
AS> about an
AS> afterlife, since why should God create us only to throw us away?
An interesting question: what, specifically, would He be 'throwing
away?' That is, it's one thing to ask this question with respect to an
individual, another thing entirely to ask it with respect to the whole
race of beings.... Note that WE as individuals would object, but that
we as a race are "still running" with no sign of stopping.... What if
G*d created the _race_ to love? _It_ is not being 'thrown away'; it's
still running strong....
(*just a thought*)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 100/4 265 435 525 757 102/735 890 103/2 104/821
SEEN-BY: 105/103 107/411 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 218/801
|From: John Brawley
|To: Mark Barnett
|Sub: ANGEL FUNDY
|Date: 26 Apr 96 11:45:12
EID:8bb6 209a5da0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 0525dcab
REPLY: 1:3819/163 317DB4C2
On 22 Apr 96, Mark Barnett wrote:
PS> DC>Please explain why the sky is blue.
PS> MB> Because the Lord made it that way.
Provisional-indefinite.
The sky is blue because blue light from the Sun is preferentially
scattered every-which way (hence no matter where you're looking, blue
light is straight-in-your-face), while red light goes straight "down"
(hence only when you're looking AT the Sun (don't) is the red component
straight-in-your-face).
Now, there's nothing in this explanation that _denies_ that "the Lord
made it that way," but it does _explain_why_ the sky is blue.
This argument always breaks down into "God did it" and "God didn't do
it," without the slightest possibility of resolution. The only 'way
out' of the God-versus-Science argument is to accept the Science and
presume we don't know HOW "God did it" in enough detail to detect Him
there within it all.
IOW, there's no conflict unless you create one.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Fundamentalism (n.): fund = give cash to; a-mentalism = mindlessness
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 100/4 265 435 525 757 102/735 890 103/2 104/821
SEEN-BY: 105/103 107/411 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 218/801
|From: John Brawley
|To: Mark Barnett
|Sub: Hitler WAS a Christian.
|Date: 26 Apr 96 11:51:35
EID:6212 209a5e60
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 4f524409
REPLY: 1:3819/163 317DB4C7
On 22 Apr 96, Mark Barnett wrote:
MB> Have you ever noticed that the bad apples get all of the notarity.
Does that mean that you could use notariety to detect bad apples?
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Science: Words and Music by God; arrangement by QM, for full Chorus
only.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 100/4 265 435 525 757 102/735 890 103/2 104/821
SEEN-BY: 105/103 107/411 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 218/801
|From: John Brawley
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: Our Daily Astonishment
|Date: 26 Apr 96 11:53:49
EID:075d 209a5ea0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 2c87794b
REPLY: 5:7107/21.0 17ebd923
On 24 Apr 96, Mimi Milstein wrote:
MM> Hello All!
MM> From among all the UFOs and aliens I found this:
MM> Subject: !!!Read This!! - Tomb of Jesus Found - BBC TV
MM> I am at this moment watching 'Heart of the Matter' on BBC TV. It is
MM> Easter Sunday 23:15hrs.
MM> The program is making public the undisclosed discovery of a tomb in
MM> Israel, by archeologists. The tomb contains the bones of a person who
MM> was crucified, the nails are still through the ankles!
(This part is suspect.... Why would the nails, necessary to remove at
least from the wood in order to get the body down off the vertical
construct, be left in the ankles? That's almost _too_ "pat.")
MM> The 'Ossary' is clearly marked 'Jesus', it is with four others marked
MM> 'Joseph of Aramathea', 'Mary', 'Judah, Son of Jesus', and 'Matthew'.
MM> Another 'Ossary' is marked 'Mary', but this is in Greek.
One _presumes_ these names are translations? "Jesus" is a Greek-ization
of "Joshua" (--as in: "ben-Joseph.")
MM> The Apostle Paul is revealed as only having a 'vision' of the risen
MM> Christ.
MM> So, that just about shoots the whole basis of the Christian faith down
MM> in flames, doesn't it!!
I find this fascinating. I dearly hope it's not just more bulls*** from
the irrational segment of religious life....
But it shoots down only the long-suspect irrational unreality of the
sect's "literalistic" and "miracle-dependent" properties.
IF, and/or when, this is confirmed by acceptable authorities, and has
been gone over with a fine-toothed scientific comb, it'll probably do
the same thing to the "Christian Faith" that science did to creationism:
back it into a corner. It will not, however, "destroy" anyone's true
"faith." Faith has a way of adapting --if ONLY when forced by reality--
to whatever it's asked to adapt to.
IOW, yeah, it'll wreck some Fundies, but it won't wreck belief in "God,"
which is a much less empirically-wreckable thing. Nor will it likely
have any effect on Christians' faith regarding what "Jesus" is reported
to have _said_ while alive.
IMHO, nothing could be more productive for Christianity than a return to
rational sense sparked by the discovery of Jesus' very _bones_.
However, as nifty as this little blurb sounds, I _automatically_ suspect
it of being untrue, or at least nowhere near as definitive as your
report makes it sound.
PLEASE keep us advised? I would love to have a reference to the first,
and subsequent, scientific/archaeological papers published in peer-
reviewed journals, about this!
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Knowing others is wisdom, knowing yourself is Enlightenment--Lao Tzu
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 100/4 265 435 525 757 102/735 890 103/2 104/821
SEEN-BY: 105/103 107/411 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 218/801
|From: John Brawley
|To: Elliott Finesse
|Sub: Hypnogogic Mind Control
|Date: 26 Apr 96 12:11:25
EID:e424 209a6160
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 2d992647
REPLY: 1:215/130 0007d9fe
On 24 Apr 96, Elliott Finesse wrote:
EF> And oh .yeah! There was a point to this. Angels,I remember. In my
EF> experience, REM state whle you are awake feels very VERY real.
"Lucid dreaming" cannot be told from reality, if you're not deliberately
trying to "test" it (which usually results in a rude awakening), but:
EF> In fact I seem to remember reading that the reason dreams don't
EF> *usually* have the persistence of memory that real experiences do -
is
EF> because if they did, we couldn't tell the difference between memories
EF> of dreams and memories of real events. Sort of an evolutionary thing.
Persistence of memory is variable. Partially under the Lucid dreamer's
control. (ref.: personal experience). It's tested by noticing
something, turning away from it while remembering it, then turning back
to see if it has changed or not. (It can be made to "remain.") These
exercises result in that part of the dream being carried preferentially
back into the waking state.
EF> The claim of seeing angels is pretty tame, and absolutely within the
EF> scope of a twilight dream state. In fact, I'd bet that just such
EF> things have had enormous - un-attributed impact on human history. No
EF> question that for someone not knowing what was going on it would seem
EF> like a mystical
EF> experience.
Even less question that a spontaneous Lucid dream ("I _am_ awake!")
would have great power-to-convince.
However, none of this obviates the possibility of direct quantum-level
nonlocal influence (of Universe-at-large) affecting the dream state
itself, hence discounting "vision" as mere bubblings of the thalamus
won't get you loose from the religionists' conviction that "God"
sometimes adjusts things in there.... (*grin*)
Quantum mechanics unfortunately won't let you out of the religionists'
bag entirely.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Imagination is more important than knowledge."--Einstein
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 100/4 265 435 525 757 102/735 890 103/2 104/821
SEEN-BY: 105/103 107/411 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 218/801
|From: John Brawley
|To: Leonard Bernier
|Sub: Titus 2:13 (NKJV)
|Date: 26 Apr 96 12:19:07
EID:98de 209a6260
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 70742076
REPLY: 1:225/360 571cd1ae
On 24 Apr 96, Leonard Bernier wrote:
LB> PRAISE GOD !
LB> Looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of out great God
LB> and Savior Jesus Christ.
LB> The power to live the Christian life comes from Jesus Christ. Because
LB> Christ died and rescued us from sin, we are free from sin's
LB> control. He gives us the power and understanding to live according to
LB> God's will, to look forward to His return, and to do good.
He doesn't, however, require you to deny scientific reality. There's
not a word saying if you believe in evolution, you'll go to hell.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Knowing others is wisdom, knowing yourself is Enlightenment--Lao Tzu
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 100/4 265 435 525 757 102/735 890 103/2 104/821
SEEN-BY: 105/103 107/411 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 218/801
|From: John Brawley
|To: LAURA HODGKINS
|Sub: ending
|Date: 26 Apr 96 12:20:33
EID:7508 209a6280
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 68617ff6
REPLY: 1:322/746 05a6d593
On 24 Apr 96, LAURA HODGKINS wrote:
LH> I would just like everyone here to know that this is the last message
LH> I plan on posting in this area? Why? because I feel sorry for all you
LH> people who are so damn....pig headed, that they can't believe in
LH> anything they don't understand, and criticize others for their
LH> beliefs. I was under the impression that this was a MATURE base where
Giving up in the face of the opposition, are you? Who ever told you
that defending your beliefs would be a bed of roses? "We never promised
you a rose garden."
LH> a possibility. so from now on, unless you have something intelligent
LH> and mature to say, please don't bother answering this posting or any
LH> others. once again I pity all of you.
You must be careful to examine your own emotionalistic reactions. What
you say above could sound an awful lot like self-superior egotism, if
one chose to read it that way....
I recall Billy Graham saying "the hardest thing anyone could try to do
is be a Christian." Taking your belief-system and running away doesn't
strike me as very productive..... (If you're Christian, that is...)
Reality does not cancel, or even impact, _faith_. It does require,
however, periodic modifications of _precepts_ and _dogmas_, if it is to
remain "alive."
Unfortunately for most, on either side of the "neverending argument,"
there is precious little real understanding of 'hard' experimental
science's most recent and most unusual findings. If there were more,
fewer might pick up their Bibles and run for cover....
Instead, they might start doing a little reasonable editing.
Too bad this attack-motivated echo's content was more than you could
stand.... (Herein detect 'reverse psychology' if you like.)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... "Bother," said Pooh as he started to install Windows.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 100/4 265 435 525 757 102/735 890 103/2 104/821
SEEN-BY: 105/103 107/411 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 218/801
|From: John Brawley
|To: Ken Peck
|Sub: Chrysostom's pasha homily
|Date: 26 Apr 96 12:29:28
EID:9144 209a63a0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 881d8f59
REPLY: 1:130/1017.0 8969A236
On 23 Apr 96, Ken Peck wrote:
> If anyone be devout and a lover of God, enjoy
> this beautiful and radiant Feast of Feasts!
FR> Do you have any evidence for these gods of yours? Any at all?
KP> Only one God, Fredric. And yes I have a lot of evidence.
In the interest of precise speech and limits-to-maundering: do you have
any _empirical_ _scientific_ evidence for this One God of yours?
(Freddie won't for a split nanosecond give you shrift for anything
less.)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... If it works, rip it apart and find out why.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 100/4 265 435 525 757 102/735 890 103/2 104/821
SEEN-BY: 105/103 107/411 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 218/801
|From: John Brawley
|To: John Steinson
|Sub: A FAIR & JUST GOD
|Date: 26 Apr 96 12:32:38
EID:72ba 209a6400
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 9b666667
REPLY: 1:275/153 00032d62
On 24 Apr 96, John Steinson wrote:
JS> What if.....
JS> Me: "Where am I going tomorrow morning?"
JS> God: "You're going to Oscar's Deli"
JS> What are my options?
1) Go.
2) Change your mind; try not to.
If you succeed, your free will is confirmed, and God was only reporting
the current best-computed likelihood at the time you asked.
If you fail in spite of trying.... well.... you figure that one out.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... "I believe _because_ it is absurd." --Tertullian
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 100/4 265 435 525 757 102/735 890 103/2 104/821
SEEN-BY: 105/103 107/411 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 218/801
|From: John Brawley
|To: John Steinson
|Sub: A FAIR & JUST GOD
|Date: 26 Apr 96 12:36:32
EID:72ba 209a6480
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 23c3dce6
REPLY: 1:275/153 00032d6a
On 24 Apr 96, John Steinson wrote:
JS> The question is "What are my options?" Not..where does god live,
JS> how does god work.
JS> God tells me where I'm going tomorrow morning.
JS> I simply ask..."What are my options?"
JS> The dicussion should center around the ramifications of my ability
JS> to or not to do what god knows.
Doesn't it depend on whose definition of "God" you're using? On the one
hand there's "God knows everything, backward OR forward in time," while
on the other, "God only knows what I do immediately as I do it."
But there's a more rational alternative: IF this God is only
"provisionally omniscient" --in the sense that since He _is_ omniscient
with respect to _current_ states of every wavefunction in the Universe--
then He can "compute" any likelihood with near-perfect precision, taking
into account even tiny quantum influences in your brain, the brains of
those around you and distant from you, and the matter you're all running
around in.
That'd make it possible to have your "free will" --yet at the same time
provide incredible computative-precision accuracy in "knowing the
future."
(With such a "middle-ground" God, the accuracy of prediction would
logically fall off with extent forward into time, just as is the case
with am evolving quantum object's wavefunction. Hence, "tomorrow" you'd
go, with high likelihood, to the (whatever-it-was), but as for next
_week_, well, less precision would exist, and next _year_, only the
grossest patterns of what's around and in you would be predictable.
"Free will" is a time-dependent thingie, from a "scientific"
perspective, if what it is, is the human counterpart to the Universe's
"nonlocality" --instantness of adjustment/modification across space.
(Across large:universe::across small:brainsize) The further your "will"
extends into the future, the more "free" it would seem. Decisions made
"right now" on the other hand, would be less "free." (See Daniel
Dennett on consciousness, reporting experiments in which actions thought
to be "freely" made by subjects are actually forecast by actions in
their brains a few fractions of a second earlier.)
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... Find God? Why? Is he missing?
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 100/4 265 435 525 757 102/735 890 103/2 104/821
SEEN-BY: 105/103 107/411 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 218/801
|From: John Brawley
|To: John Steinson
|Sub: [INSERT DRIVEL HERE] [1]
|Date: 26 Apr 96 12:48:55
EID:b04c 209a6600
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 6e23f220
REPLY: 1:275/153 00032d72
On 24 Apr 96, John Steinson wrote:
LB> Slowly, some of the top scientist are starting to see the validity
JS> LB>of the spirital word as it effects the physical.
JS> And some scientists believe that the white race is superior, some
JS> are alcholics, etc.
If he meant strict hardcore _physics_, he's not too far off.... Physics
doesn't allow of much "sloppy" interpretation, and in quantum physics is
where this "new physics" sort of thinking occurs.
It's possible to draw an interesting comparison between "spirit" and
"quantum wavefunction," which can be thought of as 'the spirit of a
particle interaction' without doing more than a small amount of violence
to either concept.
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... If God is real, we will not find Him 'outside' of reality.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 100/4 265 435 525 757 102/735 890 103/2 104/821
SEEN-BY: 105/103 107/411 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 218/801
|From: John Brawley
|To: John Steinson
|Sub: A FAIR & JUST GOD
|Date: 26 Apr 96 12:53:06
EID:72ba 209a66a0
MSGID: 1:100/435.1 403518f1
REPLY: 1:275/153 00032d81
On 24 Apr 96, John Steinson wrote:
JS> JH>On Apr 14 22:02 96, John Steinson of 1:275/153 wrote:
JH> JS> The Institute for Atheistic Research Foundation (IFART)
JH> Cute. But what does the T in IFART stand for?
JS> Good question. As soon as I come up with a good answer, I'll let
JS> you know. However...this is the best I could come up with..
"Institute for Atheist Research in Fundamental Techniques"
Jno B. : jbrawley@creation.org (GenesisNet<-->Internet Gate)
: FidoNet: 1:100/435.1 GenNet 33:6250/1.1
* Origins Talk BBS / M.A.C., St. Louis, MO, (314) 821 1078 *
... If it works, rip it apart and find out why.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Quantum Sword (1:100/435.1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 100/4 265 435 525 757 102/735 890 103/2 104/821
SEEN-BY: 105/103 107/411 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 100/435 525 270/101 218/801
|From: Masochistic Maiden
|To: Sean McCullough
|Sub: Net mail
|Date: 27 Apr 96 02:13:50
EID:d1ac 209b11a0
MSGID: 1:352/266 3181CA10
> Hi Sean, did you ever receive a net mail from The other sysdwarf??
> Just curious.
SM> Sure did -- a hard drive ago, alas.......
OUCH... glad to see you still around aftet that!
* SPITFIRE v3.51 Le Maison De Metal - (360) 493-0798 - Olympia, WA.
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
* Origin: Get This...DIFFERENT DOES NOT EQUAL WRONG!! (1:352/266)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 271 380 153/800
SEEN-BY: 153/920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801
SEEN-BY: 218/907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 352/266 600 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200
SEEN-BY: 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002
SEEN-BY: 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/1
SEEN-BY: 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777
SEEN-BY: 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 352/266 600 138/380 146 270/101 218/801
|From: Rick Mcfarlane
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: woids
|Date: 24 Apr 96 09:52:00
EID:0992 20984e80
SPTH: Fidonet#1:222/10
MSGID: 1:222/10@Fidonet 17e564d3
-=> Quoting Martin Goldberg to Rick Mcfarlane <=-
Good morning, Martin.
RM> Michael is wrong. The Bible does say (as he put it) that "Pi =
RM> 3!!" Or at least, a very simple calculation based on data
RM> supplied in the bible indicates that Pi = 3.
RM> But you are also wrong. It does NOT say (as you put it) that "Pi
RM> = 3.0"
MG> And like Brawley, you go on and on to say that the bible does not
MG> SPECIFICALLY say that Pi=3.0. Nonsense.
. Maybe you should actually read what I wrote, eh? Then you
could respond to my arguments rather than just flipping them off with a
casual "nonsense". This is getting humourous. Dan also responded with
the old "IS NOT" defense .
I did not deny that the bible "SPECIFICALLY say[s] that Pi=3.0". In fact,
take a look at the second line of mine quoted above. I specifically said
that the Bible _does_ indicate that Pi = 3.
What I took issue with was YOUR calculation. Defend your calculation,
Martin, if you can. Explain why you think that the second digit of the
result is significant, when both inputs are only given to one significant
digit. I'm waiting.
Can't do it? I can understand why. You have no technical ground to stand
on. You KNOW that you are playing fast and loose with the correct way to
present numeric results, but it appears that you are more than willing to
do so if it suits your ends.
MG> It is my background that
MG> tell me how to look at statements and interpret them.
Glad to see you admit that your interpretation is based on your
preconceived notions. 'Cause it sure ain't your technical background
that's telling you that second digit is significant.
MG> When the bible
MG> gives a statement that leads to a conclusion such as Pi=3.0,
Correction: The above should read "When the bible gives a statement that
leads to a conclusion such as Pi=3,".
MG> then I must conclude that it is in error.
Is it? What is Pi, to one significant digit, Martin? 2? 4?
Please, this time, actually address the issue.
MG> Now you might wnat to say that the
MG> bible erred in the sizes of the alter mentioned. that might be the
MG> case. In their case, the bible is still in error. Errors are errors.
Now you might wnat to say that it's not legitimate to round measurements
to one significant digit in a casual description. You might wnat to say
that, but you'd be wrong there too.
MG> When we see a glaring error in a technical publication, we have to
MG> believe that the lab involved needs to do some more work. The same
is
MG> true of the bible.
The same is true of posts on HolySmoke. When we see a glaring error such
as yours we have to believe that the author needs to do some more work.
MG> I myself, as has everyone, published material that is not entirely
MG> correct.
That's exactly what we're talking about here, Martin. You have posted
something that is not entirely correct.
MG> However, the big errors and the small ones all get found
MG> sooner or later.
Exactly. Your error has been pointed out.
MG> The literature is full of reformations of old data.
MG> Science, in this regard, is self correcting.
But apparently, some scientists aren't.
MG> What corrects the bible? If there are little, miniscule errors, hopw
MG> about errors thta might be there for the major stuff, like the
MG> existance of a god?
You will get no argument from me on the fact that the bible contains
errors, nor on the fact that it is uncorrectable. But, in THIS specific
example the error is clearly YOURS.
Basically, Martin, your position is that in a calculation where the inputs
are given to one significant digit, the second digit of the result is
significant. I personally am waiting for you to either defend that
position, or withdraw from it.
You certainly didn't do either in this post.
Take care.
... The price of purity is purists. - Calvin Trillin
--- AdeptXBBS v1.07f (Registered)
* Origin: The DogStar BBS Sault Ste. Marie,On 705-942-8370 (1:222/10)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 222/10 1 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Rick Mcfarlane
|To: Ric Carter
|Sub: A FAIR & JUST GOD
|Date: 23 Apr 96 16:38:00
EID:585e 209784c0
SPTH: Fidonet#1:222/10
MSGID: 1:222/10@Fidonet 17e564e3
-=> Quoting Ric Carter to RICK MCFARLANE <=-
Good morning, Ric.
RM> I've seen this same type of logic before in gun control debates -
RM> "It's very unfortunate, but, the lives of these innocents are the
RM> price we have to pay to protect our freedom", followed quickly by
RM> "they didn't have much to contribute anyway". I always thought that
RM> "logic" was coming from a lunatic fringe, but now I'm not so certain.
RC> But the 1st contention is equivalent to: "The tree of Freedom is
RC> watered with the blood of innocent bystanders", or, "Liberty is
RC> nurtured with collatoral damage." And the other evaluates to: "Victims
RC> are worthless." We hear anecdotal tales of fine, hardworking people,
of
RC> serious young students with great potential, cut down in the gunfire,
RC> and BOTH these contentions are revealed to be utterly bogus.
No doubt. I don't claim to have any answers, either. But it is a
definite concern. I see it starting to happen more and more in Canada
too, and that bothers me. I don't know if it's as simple as just handguns
becomming more readily available through smuggling from the States, or if
it's more a case of a culture or mind set being imported that leads to the
glorification of violence and disrespect for authority, but, whatever,
it's a change for the worse, and I don't like it .
RM> I'm not sure about Roger (I haven't read much of his stuff), but I
RM> would have classed Marilyn as a "caring" individual, so her comment
RM> about "Social Darwinism" really caught me by surprise. As if the
RM> misfits who use guns on others are somehow weeding _themselves_ out
RM> of the population.
RC> But the whole "Social Darwin" thang is based on misconstruing
RC> evolution anyway.
I can certainly agree with that. And even if it were based on sound
biology, there's no reason to apply it to our society.
RC> It's not the "fittest" individuals who survive, but
RC> the luckiest; it's not the most aggressive species that survive, but
RC> those that're most cooperative and selfless and nurturing. Someone
RC> needs to study better...
I'm not sure I can agree with this. There are times when the environment
changes so radically so quickly that "luck" is a significant component of
survival. And there are situations in which co-operation and selfless
nurturing contribute to fitness. But, it is generally the fit that
survive.
Take care.
... They jest at scars that never felt a wound. (Shakespeare)
--- AdeptXBBS v1.07f (Registered)
* Origin: The DogStar BBS Sault Ste. Marie,On 705-942-8370 (1:222/10)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 222/10 1 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Jerry Eakle
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: whatever
|Date: 26 Apr 96 01:32:00
EID:1597 209a0c00
MSGID: 1:213/742.0 31808a00
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 65d1999b
Hey dude sorry I bothered you !!!!!!! yeah right, I hope when I find more
Hitt relatives they are nicer than you. I feel sorry for your relatives.
--- Maximus 2.01wb
* Origin: Library COM -* Reno, NV USA *- (702) 785-4191 (1:213/742)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 213/742 213 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Jerry Eakle
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Oregon
|Date: 26 Apr 96 01:37:20
EID:25dd 209a0ca0
MSGID: 1:213/742.0 31808b40
Hey dude wehat is wrong with Oregon? It;s a whole lot better than Nevada
or California. Some of the religiious groups are too conservative or fundemantal
but other than that Oregon is the best state in the U>S>A>
I don't like it when Oregon is put down by people. Like you did since if
you do have relatives which I seriously doubt and they do live in Oregon
I think it is they who wouldn't admit the connection. Why are you afraid
of Oregon?
To all the others out there reading this If this BBS had a fidonet flamer
messaage base I would take it there. I am apologizing to the other readers
of this message and not to J.J. I also apologize for leaving the subject.
--- Maximus 2.01wb
* Origin: Library COM -* Reno, NV USA *- (702) 785-4191 (1:213/742)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 213/742 213 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Malady Keane
|To: John Passaniti
|Sub: Omni-impotence
|Date: 27 Apr 96 15:17:50
EID:adf1 209b7a20
MSGID: 1:365/200.0 318272de
REPLY: 1:2613/102@fidonet 3997d89a
Again, most all Christians believe God to be Omni-everything. I do not
agree with this and neither do many other people. What I was doing was
taking the Christian belief of an omnipotent/omniscient God and dissecting
it with my own views. Thats it. I never said that Christians believe in
a limited God, they don't and they probably never will, but that is their
own business. I have too many problems with that idea and have thought
about it and found things I believe to be wrong with it. Even if there
IS no God, the Christian dogma has alot wrong with it.....If Christ were
to return today, he would probably not even recognize the Christianity being
practiced by his own people.
Maliethorn
--- Maximus 3.00
* Origin: Sherwood Forest (1:365/200)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 365/200 866 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Jim Staal
|Sub: ADOLPH HITLER WAS A CHRIS
|Date: 27 Apr 96 19:25:01
EID:d710 209b9b20
MSGID: 1:109/611.0 3182c04e
REPLY: 1:228/26.14 9d374591
PID: BWQBBS 3.11 [Eval]
Lee and Jim were killing time yakking about ADOLPH HITLER WAS A CHRIS:
JS> I think you would be surprised! I don't see it necessarily as 'hiding'
JS> anymore than merely understanding or just plain 'knowing better' in
JS> real time...
LW> You're probably right in most cases. Sort of like the difference
LW> between people's politeness when they're driving vs. their politeness
LW> when they meet you in person. (At least, here in Massachusetts... ;-)
JS> Yeah...I tried to point that out a year or so ago, but to Noah Vail...
Well, there was your problem! Noah Vail doesn't post in Holysmoke!
"Give to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself."
-- the Ingersollian Golden Rule
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ "Boys! Do they get better when they get older?" -- Dot
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: AD Multi-Node Message BBS (703) 241-1826 (1:109/611@FIDONET)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/611 23 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: DEFENDING THE BISHOP
|Date: 27 Apr 96 19:28:02
EID:34be 209b9b80
MSGID: 1:109/611.0 3182c04f
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 317f748c
PID: BWQBBS 3.11 [Eval]
Becke and Sue were killing time yakking about DEFENDING THE BISHOP:
SA> A lone voice in the wilderness, Becke mournfully howled out
SA> "DEFENDING THE BISHOP"
MH> Second case in point: In Pensacola, some evangelicals run Loaves
MH> & Fishes, which provides food and shelter to the homeless. Again, no
MH> profession of faith is required, and no pretty packages are expected.
BJ> Have you experienced a Christian run soup kitchen or aid agency
BJ> firsthand? I have. There is a certain amount of pressure there. At the
BJ> very least, they expect you to sit down and listen to them proselythize
BJ> for about an hour...
SA> I guess we're lucky, then. The one here, run by the United Church
SA> (very mainstream and rather liberal; they've had female ministers
SA> since the 70s, I think) doesn't proselytise .. the most they do is
SA> ask for a volunteer to say a short "grace" before the serving
SA> starts.
(VBG) Thank you Sue! You just made the point I was making to Michael regarding
the difference between liberal and conservative churches -- his example
above
was meant to suggest that conservative churches don't make religious demands
of those they assist (and then justified requiring them to sit through a
proselytizing session while getting that assistance).
You accurately describe the extent of the religious demands placed on those
seeking physical assistance from a "liberal" church.
SA> I'm tempted to volunteer one of these times, and say one that thanks
SA> the volunteers and donors rather than an invisible spook who doesn't
SA> seem to be doing any of the real work behind running the mission.
*gasp* You mean that such minimal practices actually draws you IN rather
than
AWAY?! Goodness, who'da thunk it? I thought one had to be beaten over the
head
about how wrong they are before they would go near a church.... ;)
"Give to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself."
-- the Ingersollian Golden Rule
---
þ TLX v4.10 þ Morality is only moral when it is voluntary.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: AD Multi-Node Message BBS (703) 241-1826 (1:109/611@FIDONET)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/611 23 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Lynda Bustilloz
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: WE'VE BEEN HAD!
|Date: 27 Apr 96 20:27:03
EID:7986 209ba360
MSGID: 1:109/611.0 3182c050
REPLY: 1:116/19 032609B4
PID: BWQBBS 3.11 [Eval]
Lynda and Al were killing time yakking about WE'VE BEEN HAD!:
LB> post saying she had it (and if I were her, I'd check the margins for
LB> some new annotations).
AS> Really. How do we know George didn't buy another book, fake John's
AS> handwriting, and then write totally bogus stuff?...Nyahhh. He seems
AS> to like Sue, so he wouldn't do that to her.
LOL! Oh, no -- I wasn't suggesting a new conspiracy, I was merely saying
that
I'd look to see if he'd added to the annotations...that is, made a few comments
of his own to John's already annotated book.
LB> To be honest, I figured that the moment I banned him, I'd get a
LB> private message and/or some sort of flooding assault in response. That
LB> I got neither tells me that he was not as skilled at IRC as I thought
LB> he would be.
AS> Yeah...AND I WAS THERE!!!!
Yup. And neither one of us are skilled enough to ward off any of the number
of
ways people who KNOW IRC can wreak havoc -- if he'd been skilled, and intent
on revenge, it would have been an interesting night. So I acted quickly.
As I told you then, if I'd known that he was a novice, and that you had
something to say, I'd have slowed up long enough to let you say it.
For future info, though, you *can* still speak to someone not on the same
channel by using the /msg command. :)
LB> said something he wanted to hear. Sometimes, I didn't say it fast
LB> enough, or nice enough, or in exactly the right way...and lost the item
AS> You didn't say "please do" or "OK" by any chance, did you? (There
AS> should be another post this packet which will explain that...)
ok.
LB> graciously "allowed" my cat to live...put her down with "Well, she's
LB> going to be just fine until I change my mind". Was he a "better man"
AS> I wonder how many husbands have been quietly killed while they slept?
AS> It's amazing to me how many LIVED...
(grim smile) the thought crossed my mind. I wasn't ready to become the
monster
I hated in him.
"Give to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself."
-- the Ingersollian Golden Rule
... "I just need enough to tide me over until I need more." -- Bill Hoest
---
* TLX v4.10 *
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: AD Multi-Node Message BBS (703) 241-1826 (1:109/611@FIDONET)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/611 23 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Robert Jackson
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Life in the fast lane.
|Date: 26 Apr 96 09:36:19
EID:64cb 209a4c80
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:3828/1.0 3182b741
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 65df22b3
JH> Euel was cool (cuel?). Before he settled down and became a
JH> writer, he traveled around as a drifter and his survival lore
JH> is all from first hand experience. It's unfortunate that the
JH> Grape Nuts commercials portrayed him as some sort of freak.
"Tastes like wild hick'ry nuts."
... I agreed to suspend disbelief, not hang it 'til it died!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:3828/1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3828/1 396/2 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Robert Jackson
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Our Deadly Doctrine
|Date: 26 Apr 96 09:37:47
EID:06a7 209a4ca0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:3828/1.0 3182b742
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 65df3c40
RJ> living room and I staggered through wrapped in a torn sheet
RJ> and a thorny crown, dragging an 8-foot cross on my
RJ> shoulder.
JH> Do you get cross draggers in your part of the country also?
JH>
Mardi Gras, every year.
JH> I see at least one or two a year around here. Don't really know
JH> where they come from or where they are going, but you'll see
JH> them trudgeing along the shoulder of some rural highway with
JH> thier cross and a dozen or so small signs tacked to their person
JH> and their cross.
Friends of mine who went one year told be about a crossdragger
with the message that "Pizza Saves!", including having an
actual pizza (tho I don't know what condition the thing would
be in) nailed right where good ol' INRI would normally go.
JH> What always tickles me is that many of them add a wheel to the
JH> base of the cross to make it easier to drag along.
They said this guy had a wheel on his as well. I figure he's
entitled to it, since his message is so important he needs to
lighten his load a bit. For Pizza truly is the Way, the Truth,
and the Two-for-One Special. Of course being orthodox myself,
I call all those who do not believe in Uno's 2:38 deep dish
baptism to be False Pizza Scum .
... Grey: (n.) an alien lifeform traveling light-years to molest cattle.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:3828/1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3828/1 396/2 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Robert Jackson
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Genocidal Prophet
|Date: 26 Apr 96 16:54:05
EID:a894 209a86c0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:3828/1.0 3182b743
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 317e6055
PS> Not at one shot, no. I know a guy who is, at last report,
PS> currently working on filling a gallon jar.
DM> If word of the jar gets out, he will be choosing his
DM> future wife from a very limited pool of applicants.
What an irony, as he would have so much to offer.
I suppose if he was really determined, he could pour the
jug into the jet nozzles at the YWCA pool.
(now see, that image works on more than one level...)
... Creationism: cretinism augmented by an Alpha (a) and an Omega (o)
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:3828/1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3828/1 396/2 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Robert Jackson
|To: Coridon Henshaw
|Sub: Credibility
|Date: 26 Apr 96 16:54:47
EID:f7bb 209a86c0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:3828/1.0 3182b744
REPLY: 1:250/820 317d5e9c
CH> There are only three members of the regular heathen complement that
I
CH> consider to be assholes. You're not one of them.
Well thanx.
CH> Even though I don't read any traffic, my mail robots continue to
CH> direct mail about me to my attention. You lot can't badmouth me
CH> without my knowing about it. :-)
Oh, *that's* why everyone won't stop talking about C*rid*n here!
CH> --
CH> Do you know any CDA supporters? Send netmail with their names and
CH> they will be added to a blacklist of TRAITORS.
You mean...name NAMES?
... Cannibalism: see Eucharist (from Diderot's Encyclopedia)
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:3828/1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3828/1 396/2 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Robert Jackson
|To: The Raven
|Sub: READ THE MESSAGE, SHITHEAD!
|Date: 26 Apr 96 09:51:16
EID:8b76 209a4e60
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:3828/1.0 3182b745
REPLY: 1:363/309.0 317f1ea3
TR> To answer your question, I will fall back on the wisdom of the
TR> immortal Hunter S. Thompson, who, in July of 1985, said "Bite my crank,
TR> you two-bit maladjusted odorous baboon."
RJ> LOL! Who did he say that to?
TR> Jerry Foulwell.
That's about as good as his comment about Garry Trudeau,
"If I ever get my hands on that punk, I'll tear his fucking
lungs out."
... "Wouldst thou be perfect, do not yelp about God." (Johannes Eckhart)
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:3828/1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3828/1 396/2 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Robert Jackson
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: The Best of WWN
|Date: 26 Apr 96 12:43:52
EID:b951 209a6560
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:3828/1.0 3182b757
* Reply to msg originally in Fidonet Echo: Mensa
FH> In a message of <21 Apr 96 08:56:44>, JEROME SCHROEDER (1:343/15)
FH> writes:
JS>Both extremes are dangerously paranoid. Both are convinced that there
JS>is a conspiracy to ________ (fill in the blank). Both inspire violence.
JS>The right wingers would really like to go out and shoot their opponents.
JS>The left wingers inspire the rest of us to want to strangle them to
JS>shut them up.
FH>
FH> Having been absent from the conference for a couple of years, the
FH> conspiracy stuff posted here is absolutely overwhelming.
FH> It's almost like the cyber edition of the National Enquirer sometimes.
FH>
FH> Since there are so many advocates of such trash, I thought I would
FH> post a summary of the latest edition of the Weekly World News. Here
FH> are some of the headlines and stories:
FH> FBI PHOTO OF ELVIS PROVES HE DIDN'T DIE!
FH> Shockwaves as his 1977 'death' is now officially questioned by the
FH> FBI!
FH> FACE ON MARS BOMBSHELL!
FH> NASA releases new evidence of lost civilization on red planet!
FH>
FH> NUKE WARHEAD EXPLODES!
FH> Thousands die in Siberian blast when stupid Russians try to dismantle
FH> with an ice pick!
FH> ARMLESS MAN WEDS LEGLESS WOMAN
FH> She met him in a supermarket and fell head over knees in love with
FH> him!
FH> COUNTRY DOCTOR CURES CANCER WITH BAKING SODA AND MAPLE SYRUP!
FH> (recipe provided)
FH>
FH> JAPANESE DISCOVER NEW WEIGHT-LOSS TECHNIQUE
FH> Wrap your fingers in surgical tape!
FH>
FH> N.Y. GAL RECEIVES NEW HEART, LUNG
FH> And donor's cravings for beer and fried chicken!
FH>
FH> NEW VIRUS SHRINKS MALE GENITAL TO NOTHING!
FH> World Health Organization predicts disease will hit U.S. within one
FH> year!
FH> STRAY DOGS ADOPT LOST BOY, 10, -- AND SAVE HIS LIFE!
FH> They kept him warm in frigid wilderness for 3 days!
FH>
FH> PIZZA INVENTED BY ANCIENT GREEKS ... NOT ITALIANS SAY EXPERTS
FH> Pizza pies were used for discus throwing as well as eating.
FH> (accompanied by a photo of the discus thrower with a pizza pie
FH> replacement)
FH> MORTICIAN STEALS ARTIFICIAL BODY PARTS FROM CORPSES
FH> And resells them back to doctors.
FH> Artifical hearts sell for a cool $25,000.00 apiece.
FH>
FH> TEXAS MAN HITS 2,513 POUNDS!
FH> He eats 12 T-Bone steaks, drinks 5 gallons of milk and gobbles up 14
FH> apple pies -- EVERY DAY!
FH> WOMAN PREGNANT FOR 39 MONTHS!
FH> Astounded doctors say her 35-pound fetus is HEALTHY!
FH>
FH> CAVEMEN LOVED BOWLING!
FH> The earliest form of bowling involved cavemen hurling rocks at other
FH> rocks that were lined up, according to bowling historian Chuck
FH> Pezzano.
FH> ANGRY CITIZENS STOP UFO ABDUCTIONS -- BY KIDNAPPING AN ALIEN!
FH>
FH> WEEKLY WORLD NEWS EDITOR VOWS: "WE WILL SPEND $17 MILLION TO FIND
FH> HELL!" Weekly World News has announced plans to unlock one of the
FH> greatest mysteries of all time -- by drilling a hole straight into
FH> Hell! Drilling project to start in mid-May.
FH>
FH> JEALOUS WIFE BITES OFF HUBBY'S TATTOO -- AND SPITS IT OUT!
FH> "I've been looking at that other woman's name on his arm for five
FH> years!"
FH> NASA PROBE RECORDS VOICES IN SPACE -- OF ANGELS SINGING!
FH> Seven minute tape captured sounds of Heaven itself, say scientists!
FH>
FH> I'm gonna have to stop -- my exclamation point key just broke....
FH>
FH> Fred.
FH>
FH>
FH> -!- QM v1.00
FH> ! Origin: The Digital Cottage in New Orleans 504-897-6614 (1:396/65.0)
... Je suis Marxiste, tendance Groucho.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:3828/1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3828/1 396/2 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Robert Jackson
|To: Starwyn
|Sub: test
|Date: 26 Apr 96 13:40:36
EID:e543 209a6d00
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:3828/1.0 3182b759
DC> St> Meanie ...
DC>Preston should at least have offered you a Twinkie...
St> Minus the cream, of course.
St>
Who'd want a vasectomized Twinkie?
... "A dog with money is referred to as Mr. Dog."
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:3828/1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3828/1 396/2 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Robert Jackson
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Our Daily Religious ET
|Date: 26 Apr 96 13:44:25
EID:14c3 209a6d80
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:3828/1.0 3182b75a
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 65d5a4a3
JH> On Apr 22 00:43 96, Richard Smith of 1:105/64 wrote:
RS> * Copied (from: NIGHT_SHIFT) by Richard Smith using timEd
JH> Just what in the hell is supposed to be the topic of the
JH> Night_Shift echo(s)? And who in the hell is Gramps Kersarge?
JH> People refer to him as though he was some sort of celebrity or
JH> authority on something.
ANYONE who is called Gramps is an authority on just
about everything.
... Prophylacteries: For those who like to play when they pray.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:3828/1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3828/1 396/2 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Robert Jackson
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Genocidal Prophet
|Date: 26 Apr 96 14:01:31
EID:2b98 209a7020
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:3828/1.0 3182b75b
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 65d5f72d
LB> Seeing that, Hitler became human for me. That is no
LB> comfort -- it would be much easier to see him as pure
LB> villian, who spent every waking moment plotting new ways to
LB> bring about Hell on earth, but he wasn't.
JH>
JH> And yet, even in that setting there is a genuine touch of the
JH> sinister just below the surface. Eva Braun was not Hitler's
JH> first lover. There were several others. They all committed
JH> "suicide", including Hitler's neice. In the neice's case she
JH> managed to beat the hell out of herself (including knocking
JH> some teeth out) before she "killed herself".
JH>
I had heard he had six other lovers before Eva, and that
they all committed suicide, but this bit I hadn't heard,
including his neice being one. He apparently killed them
all? Where can I get more info?
BTW, I had heard the OSS used this info about him (his
"suicidal" girlfriends) to rain pamphlets over Berchtes-
gaden which were supposed to be lots of S&M porn pictures.
... * Origin: POLYTETRAFLUORETHYLENE! NETWORK: Slippery Plastic Jeezoids!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:3828/1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3828/1 396/2 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Robert Jackson
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: BBS in the back ground.
|Date: 26 Apr 96 14:05:14
EID:e7dc 209a70a0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:3828/1.0 3182b75c
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 65d60b91
DC>>Your god told me it will work if you take your dog out and
DC>>sacrifice him on an altar and burn him on a pyre.
KS> OH, SHIT, Dan. He'll probably DO it now....
JH> Only after he finds out what a pyre is.
I thought the practice of muttee was banned.
... Religious error: (A)tone (R)epent (I)mmolate?
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:3828/1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3828/1 396/2 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Robert Jackson
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: 1 god plus 1 god plus
|Date: 26 Apr 96 14:06:29
EID:3e62 209a70c0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:3828/1.0 3182b75d
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 65d8e32b
JH> I love Caller ID.
JH> It's nice to be able to call phone solicitors back and harrass them
You're lucky. Every time we get some telextortionist calling
here, it invariably reads OUT OF AREA: 000-000-0000. I've
found the MCI people to be the worst. I wait patiently for
them to call me back, with the same sense of anticipation I
wait and plot for JWs to knock on my door.
JH> for a change. Unless I'm expecting a call, I normally leave the
JH> phone's bell turned off. If someone is trying to get ahold of me,
JH> I'll know it when I check the box and I'll call them back when I
JH> want to talk to them.
Speaking of, if you don't mind a call from me someday, I've
been meaning to vox with you. You gave me your number once,
but I just looked through the filthy collection of dogeared
Post-It-Notes on my desk and the one that had yours on it is
either gone, or the # rubbed off. If you'd like to net your
number and a good time to call, I'd 'preesh. Just gimme some
time to prepare my cribnotes.
... "When in doubt, go for the dick joke." --Robin Williams
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:3828/1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3828/1 396/2 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Robert Jackson
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: The African Question
|Date: 26 Apr 96 15:34:38
EID:8594 209a7c40
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:3828/1.0 3182b75e
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 65e315ae
JH> I've temporarily turned off I_UFO, BAMA and UFO. I'll be picking
JH> them back up in about two weeks. (Which explains why I've not been
JH> sending George Mooth as much mail as usual.)
Does the BC ever come up as a topic anymore?
... It was at that point I realized...that I didn't want a pickle.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:3828/1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3828/1 396/2 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Robert Jackson
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: The Apocalypse
|Date: 26 Apr 96 15:37:10
EID:44b3 209a7ca0
PID: BWMAX 3.11 [Reg]
MSGID: 1:3828/1.0 3182b75f
REPLY: 1:105/40.762 cf61ff25
JS> * OLX 2.1 TD * We are pro-choice, and we shoot back.
EM> Holy Shit! Another heavily armed blasphemer! I thought I was
EM> the only one.
EM> What's your partiality for Salvi-potting: 12 gauge or hand
EM> cannon? Myself, I'm fond of the stodgy old gov't .45 with 4 Glasers
EM> followed by 3 ball rounds, the reasoning being, if the frangibles
EM> don't stop him, a FMJ between the eyes will. Just have to be ready
EM> for the change in recoil. :)
I like what Dennis Miller said about his sentence. "[Salvi]
will be happy to know that in accordance with [his beliefs]
his sentence will not be prematurely terminated, even in the
case of rape."
... "Eighteen straight whiskeys...I think that's a record." (Dylan Thomas)
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Orion's Sword | Bush, LA | (504) 867-9701 | V.* (1:3828/1)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3828/1 396/2 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Bill Arnold
|To: All
|Sub: False Prophets
|Date: 27 Apr 96 22:39:27
EID:a892 209bb4e0
MSGID: 1:123/44.0 3182e86f
PID: BWRA 3.02 [Reg]
TID: GE 1.2
We are truly living in the Last Days: Tex Marrs is a Zionist stooge, whose
job is to divide the Church (divide and conquer). The Bible says that
Satan is the Author of Confusion.
... The last thing I saw was this Big Blue Wave!
--- GEcho 1.20/Pro+
* Origin: /\/\uddy \/\/aters BBS * Cordova, TN * HST/DS 14.4k (1:123/44)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 43 67 305 318 319 434 129/11 133/707 138/146
SEEN-BY: 153/800 920 157/586 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711
SEEN-BY: 218/801 907 225/99 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101
SEEN-BY: 270/102 103 104 211 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119
SEEN-BY: 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25
SEEN-BY: 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225
SEEN-BY: 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18
SEEN-BY: 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 123/305 1 270/101 218/801
|From: Terry Liberty-Parker
|To: All
|Sub: Guardian angels, the decency brigade, and cyberseraphim
|Date: 26 Apr 96 15:08:49
EID:f2bc 209a7900
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 1812ba15
CHRS: IBMPC 2
* Forwarded (from: netmail) by Terry Liberty-Parker using timEd/386 1.10+.
* Originally from Matthew Gaylor (1:382/87) to terry liberty-parker (1:382/804).
* Original dated: Fri Apr 26, 12:22
age-Id:
From: freematt@coil.com (Matthew Gaylor)
From: "Declan B. McCullagh"
Via: Fight Censorship Mailing List
Subject: Guardian angels, the decency brigade, and cyberseraphim
X-URL: http://fight-censorship.dementia.org/top/
X-JusticeOnCampusURL: http://joc.mit.edu/
Attached is a message from the CyberAngels asking for rating volunteers.
Jim Thomas published a fascinating and illuminating article documenting
the seamier side of these self-appointed net.vigilantes in the Computer
underground Digest earlier this year. (I vaguely remember some legal
threats soon afterwards.) Their authoritarian and anti-privacy leanings
are clear in their FAQ, at :
9) What kinds of changes would the Guardian Angels / CyberAngels like
to see?
a) We would like to see an improvement in User identification. User ID is
impossible to verify or trace back. The very anonymity of Users is itself
causing an increase in rudeness, sexual abuse, flaming, and crimes like
pedophile activity. We the Net Users must take responsibility for the
problem ourselves. One of our demands is for more accountable User IDs
on the Net. When people are anonymous they are also free to be
criminals.
In a riot you see rioters wearing masks to disguise their true identity.
So much for anonymous remailers! But the CyberAngels, in a fit of almost
painful hypocrisy, use anonymous remailers themselves, as Charles Platt
recounts in his book _Anarchy Online_:
How would this decency crusade actually work in
practice? Well, later in 1995, one net user received the
following not-very-friendly, not-very-literate warning, sent
via an anonymous remailer:
The Net is out of control, sex crimes, hate crimes and felonies.
Just as on the streets, CyberCrime is committed by
a minority of criminals who destroy the quality of life
for an innocent majority. And just like on the streets
the Guardian Angels will combat it.
We have good reason to believe that you are
involved in unlawful, harmful, hateful, threatening
and/or harassment, particularly relating to minors. We
will be watching you.
The netizen who found this in her mailbox was baffled
and irritated. She had no idea what she'd done to provoke the
warning, and since the message was anonymous, there was no
way to _find out_ what she was supposed to have done.
By November, the Angels claimed they had 200 volunteers
working for them, busily searching for bad guys on the net.
"We have reported a number of Child Pornographers (50) to
Sysadmins [system administrators] this month," Colin Hatcher
noted, although he was no longer signing his real name to his
progress reports, perhaps in fear of reprisals from angry
pedophiles. "Letters we have received back all share our
concern and promise stern action. Remember, each electronic
image represents a real life destroyed."
[...]
Some net users wondered, though, if Hatcher was
qualified to draw a dividing line between good and bad, let
alone ugly. They also worried that decency vigilantes might
have a chilling effect on freedom of speech. A student at
Rutgers University complained that some of the Angels' public
statements "are threats to violate the civil liberties of
users of the Internet." In addition, he said, "the record of
the Guardian Angels suggests that they will step over even
the bounds that they publicly set for themselves."
And, as Steven Levy wrote in Newsweek last October: "After the issue of
child safety in cyberspace came up on his radio talk show, [Curtis]
Sliwa decided to pursue in his usual high-profile fashion... Though the
CyberAngels cannot document a single case where one of their numerous
reports led directly to an arrest, they have compiled a fat file of
press clippings."
In the attached piece, the Angels hold themselves up as the arbiter of
what is appropriate for kids or not under the Safesurf system. So far so
good -- but what criteria do they use when checking to see if a site is
"genuinely kidsafe?" Where is it documented and published? What training
do their self-selected vigilantes have? Will the fight-censorship list
be blocked when we have messages like this one on it:
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~declan/rimm/asst/anti_porn_group_11_22_94.letter
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Those orphan kids in the terminally ill section of the hospital are so fun
at night when they are drugged out. I love sucking on their tiny
finger-sized cocks and probing their tight holes. Their slender little
bodies are completely smooth. They're going to die pretty soon so they
won't come back to me several years from now as hairy grown up men blaming
me for why they are all mentally messed up. And since they are orphans
with no one to look over them except for overworked staff, I could get
away with just about anything.
Since blocking software like Safesurf and SurfWatch is central to our
case challenging the CDA, I believe we should support that software and
PICS-like third paty rating systems. Fortunately, that doesn't mean we
have to accept or support the efforts of their unfortunate and
intemperate net-vigilante allies.
But I still want to help rate some web pages, so ---- "Gabriel," I want
to be a CyberAngel. Sign me up!
-Declan (now a CyberSeraphim)
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Thu, 25 Apr 1996 19:11:16 -0700
From: angels@wavenet.com
Subject: ALERT FOR 20 VOLUNTEERS!
APPEAL FOR VOLUNTEERS
Hi again everyone. I have a project that requires 20 volunteers. Read
on!
Most of you I hope are familiar with Safesurf - if not go visit them at
http://www.safesurf.com
Safesurf are not a commercial software company but are a kidsafe
organization who are very involved in the ratings issue for kids and adult
material on the Net. Safesurf are also our allies, and it is thanks to
them that we have our website at all as it was a donation from Ray and
Wendy at Safesurf.
Safesurf have a very positive approach to the screening debate - they have
developed a rating system whereby instead of spending time rating adult
sites you focus instead on rating the kids sites. Then your screening
software only allows you to visit sites with the Safesurf rating on it.
This is an excellent concept, not least because it doesn't then matter if
new sites come onto the web that are not rated yet, because nothing can
be
included in your screened browser unless it registers itself as kidsafe
by
marking its site with a safesurf rating mark. Don't worry about my
ramblings - just go to their site and read up on it. It's a really
positive concept and has been adopted by a lot of sites already. Adopting
the Safesurf mark is voluntary and means that you are identifying your site
as suitable for e.g. kids.
Now here comes the appeal. Several thousand sites have already marked
themselves as Safesurf rated - and more are registering every day.
The question is - what is to stop a site registering as a kidsafe site,
but
in reality being an adult site? The Safesurf rating method is that sites
can obtain the rating from the Safesurf site and then write in and register
themselves. Isn't it possible that a site could claim to be kidsafe but
in
reality was adult?
The answer is yes. So how can Safesurf be sure that sites registered with
them are indeed genuinely kidsafe? Simple - someone has to go and check
out all the sites who register with Safesurf.
Ray had a proposal for me. How about if we could say that all these sites
were "Rated by Safesurf, and patrolled by CyberAngels"? I thought that
was
a great idea - for we CyberAngels to help Safesurf in this way, by checking
their sites for them.
Ray is proposing to send me 200 sites a week to check out and we will share
them out to a CyberAngels team of 20 volunteers - that means that each one
of us would volunteer to check out 10 sites per week. Easy right?
I want to make something very clear - Safesurf are not a rich commercial
company making money from rating sites. They are not selling software and
their rating code is free to anyone who wants it. So it's not like they
can hire 20 people and pay them to patrol the Safesurf Intranet - it's a
volunteer job.
So there you are - I am looking for 20 CyberAngel volunteers to make up
a
regular Safesurf "Intranet" Patrol, with the mission to visit 10 URLs a
week and make sure that they are what they say they are. Who's ready?
Once I have the team established I will then brief you all on how we do
this. Write to me as soon as possible if this interests you. Let's show
Safesurf how much we support their positive stand for our InterNet kids!
I
will take the first 20 volunteers who contact me (yes you will be suitably
honored - publicly if you so choose!)
Gabriel
###
****************************************************************************
Subscribe to Freematt's Alerts: Pro-Individual Rights Issues
Send a blank message to: freematt@coil.com with the words subscribe FA
on the subject line. List is private and moderated (7-20 messages per week)
Matthew Gaylor,1933 E. Dublin-Granville Rd.,#176, Columbus, OH 43229
****************************************************************************
---
--- timEd/386 1.10+
* Origin: LibertyBBS, Austin,Tx [512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 382/804 91 92 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Michael Martinez
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: HIV is 'Harmless' and does NOT 'cause' AIDS
|Date: 26 Apr 96 18:56:40
EID:cf55 209a9700
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 318162b8
REPLY: 1:106/9788.2 65d1d67a
JH> On Apr 23 14:23 96, Terry Liberty-Parker of 1:382/804 wrote:
JH> Comments, Herr Doktor?
TL> -Virology is a "secret" field open only to insiders, no one
TL> else has the right to question it. Virologists wield much
TL> influence in the medical field.
JH> I wonder if he knows about your secret decoder ring?
JH> Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
JH> --- Msgedsq 2.2e
JH> * Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
I wonder if you know that I am being sarcastic?
I definitely welcome any comments from mr. martin, especially if you are
a virologist ...
- michael, author of the paper which was posted, WHY AIDS IS NOT CONTAGIOUS
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx[512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 382/804 91 92 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Michael Martinez
|To: John Oliver
|Sub: HIV is 'Harmless' and does NOT 'cause' AIDS
|Date: 26 Apr 96 19:00:00
EID:2ff8 209a9800
MSGID: 1:382/804.0 31816380
REPLY: 1:246/148@fidonet 3996ad4c
JO> ÓÄÄÙ ÓÄÄÙ Ð Á ÓÄÄÙ Ð Á Ð Á Ð ÓÄÄÙ ÐÄÄÙ Ð Á Ð
JO> ÄÐÄ ÓÄÄÙ Ð Á ÓÄÄÙ
JO> You have just been awarded the Flying Finger!
Not an uncommon response from someone who isn't willing or doesn't have
enough guts to look at the issue scientifically.
One of the major reasons for a lack of headway against AIDS is the overwhelming
inability of the people who suffer from it or are at risk for it to face
the responsiblity of their drug use which causes it.
- michael, author of the posting WHY AIDS IS NOT CONTAGIOUS
--- Maximus 2.02
* Origin: LibertyBBS Austin,Tx[512]462-1776 (1:382/804)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 382/804 91 92 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Roy Gustard
|To: All
|Sub: Interesting books
|Date: 24 Apr 96 14:39:12
EID:9bef 209874e0
MSGID: 3:711/933 317e3d5b
PID: GED386 Beta5 28OZ1
Listing new books or editions now available.
AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE by David Icke
This is the most comprehensive book of recent years (published
in 1995), which portrays the current activities of the globalists
in their endeavours to establish a New World Order. Well researched,
it embraces current world crises, and the manipulations that
create them and the remedy which expands the concentration of power
in the hands of an elite. The link between secret societies such as
the Bilderbergers, Council on Foreign Relations, The Trilaneral
Commission, Royal institute of International Affairs, the Club of
Rome and the Round Table is exposed with the manipulations of events
that create friction throughout the world, leading no an arranged
solution by the United Nations or Organisation or diplomats employed
by the elite powers. Nothing has been neglecyed in this analysis
of the present world situation. The bibliography is extensive and
current, adding to previous books available on international
affairs. An Englishman, David Icke has already received the attention
of the world planners who through the media and other avenues have
endeavoured to disparage the material exposed in his books. A
positive aspect of his exposure is the understanding of how the
exploitation of the the minds of men can be reversed so that the
evident monopoly of control can be readily recognised as expressed
by channels of thought set in motion by the mass media. This is a
book of 475 pages, crammed with information that should be read
by all students of international affairs.
A LICENSE TO LIVE by D.E. Phelps
This new edition of a book that created some attention during the
seventies is equally relevent to the conditions in Australia today
The question of how to provide sufficient purchasing power to a
population increasingly deprived of their income due to unemploy-
ment. The amount of production has progressively increased despite
the reduction in the numbers employed. Unless we can get access to
this increasing production of goods a depressed economy is inevitable.
The money system requires a revision to ensure that each individual
is afforded the benefits of a system progressively aimed at reducing
the need for labour. An age of leisure is being denied to maintain
an antiquaited financial system. An easily read and thought provoking
book with obvious answers to this burning question.
ANNE FRANK'S DIARY - A HOAX by Ditlieb Felderer
Among the many myths created during the war years, and later
regarded as the Truth, was the story of Anne Frank's Diary.
Hollywood provided a picture which gave the story authenticity
and the beneficiaries, when interviewed were unable to satisfactorily
defend the legend. Ditlieb Felderer shows that the book could not
possibly be the work of a teenager and indeed the materials used
and contradictions within the book reveal it to be a fake.
SPECTRE OF POWER by Malcolm Ross
The author was a Canadian school teacher who because of his Christian
beliefs endeavoured to inform fellow Christians of the attack on
their Faith and civilisation. Powerful jewish organisations have
pressured the Canadian Government for years to have action taken
against him. This has resulted in a series of investigations.
Since the publication of his first book, "Web of Deceit" in 1978
received numerous crank phone calls, which forced him to
leave his phone off the hook everyday except Fridays for over seven
vears. Pressure on the "Human Rights Commissioner" demanded that
Malcolm Ross be prosecuted, however, no charges were laid, but a
campaign against book sellers kept the book from the shelves.
Nevertheless, two editions of the book were sold out by 1980.
The author's continued research is in the book "Spectre of Power"
It is intersting to read that many of the books provided by the
Heritage Book Service are banned in Canada.
MAGNA CHARTA ITS CONTINUING IMPORTANCE IN OUR LIVES TODAY
The Magna Charta is one of the world's great symbols of Liberty.
It was the world's first constitution and the basis of law and
justice in the Western World. It re-affirmed fundamental principles
that was part and parcel of English life for hundreds of years,
and grew from the climate of opinion created by Christianty.
P.O. BOX 93, BORONIA PARK NSW 2111
---
* Origin: Bible Believers BBS * West Ryde * 61-2-809-3723! (3:711/933)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 711/933 809 808 409 690/660 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Leonard Bernier
|Sub: Titus 2:13 (NKJV)
|Date: 27 Apr 96 11:26:00
EID:c2e5 209b5b40
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 99180b0a
THE WICCAN REDE
Bide the Wiccan Laws we must
In Perfect Love and Perfect Trust.
Live and let live,
Fairly take and fairly give.
Cast the Circle thrice about
To keep the evil spirits out.
To bind the spell every time
Let the spell be spake in rhyme.
Soft of eye and light of touch,
Speak little, listen much.
Deosil go by the waxing moon,
Chanting out the Witches' Rune.
Widdershins go by the waning moon,
Chanting out the baneful rune.
When the Lady's moon is new,
Kiss the hand to her, times two.
When the moon rides at her peak,
Then your heart's desire seek.
Heed the North wind's mighty gale,
Lock the door and drop the sail.
When the wind comes from the South,
Love will kiss thee on the mouth.
When the wind blows from the West,
Departed souls will have no rest.
When the wind blows from the East,
Expect the new and set the feast.
Nine woods in the cauldron go,
Burn them fast and burn them slow.
Elder be the Lady's tree,
Burn it not or cursed you'll be.
When the Wheel begins to turn,
Let the Beltane fires burn.
When the Wheel has turned to Yule,
Light the log and the Horned One rules.
Heed ye Flower, Bush and Tree,
By the Lady, blessed be.
Where the rippling waters go,
Cast a stone and truth you'll know.
When ye have a true need,
Hearken not to others' greed.
With a fool no season spend,
Lest ye be counted as his friend.
Merry meet and merry part,
Bright the cheeks and warm the heart.
Mind the Threefold Law you should,
Three times bad and three times good.
When misfortune is enow,
Wear the blue star on thy brow.
True in Love ever be,
Lest thy lover's false to thee.
Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill:
An ye harm none, do what ye will.
---Lady Gwen
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * I know he's studly, but can he type?
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 7Gig, 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 381/123 900 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Katherine Wintersnight
|To: Larry Bevard
|Sub: [INSERT DRIVEL HERE]
|Date: 27 Apr 96 11:26:00
EID:2917 209b5b40
MSGID: 1:381/123@fidonet.org d86a506c
LB> Your right, I did go to far with that statement. One of the main
LB>difference between Christianity and the other religions is that in the
LB>other religions you have to excell to be granted admittance into their
LB>view of heaven. In Christianity you have to humble yourself enough to
LB>get into heaven.
Larry, why do you assume that other religions uniformly conform to the
notion of a 'heaven'? You need to do a bit of independent research on
other religions before you make more transparently misinformed
statements. You will find that while some of the worlds many religions
do indeed supply a reward place after death, a good many don't depend on
that sort of bribe to attract and hold believers.
---
* OLXWin 1.00a * I let my mind wander, and it never came back...
--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0093
* Origin: La Cantina BBS * El Paso * 915-532-0332 7Gig, 4 Nodes (1:381/123)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 381/123 900 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Jim Germiquet
|To: John Steinson
|Sub: Re: "No True Christian...
|Date: 27 Apr 96 12:26:49
EID:e5f7 209b6340
this is what John Steinson had to say to Jim Germiquet about Re: "No True
Christi
JG> JG>May you see the TRUTH of the spirit of God which will lead you to
JG> JG>eternal life.
JG> JS> Another true god has been noticed.
JG> JS> Which true god do you refer to?
JG>YOUR "TRUE" god ! You say you are an atheist . But what motivates you
?
JS> Hunger, compassion, hormones....this among others motivates me.
So you do have a physical god, which is food and hormones. And you do have
a
spiritual god which is compassion. Now which god rules when a choice has
to be made ? When there is one piece of bread and you have it and you see
another hungry person ? In an airplane crash and you have a chocolate bar,
who gets it you or the other guy ? Or do you share it ? When you see a lost
wallet full of money, does your material side rule over your compassionate
side which might say, "How would I feel if I lost my wallet, would I want
the other person to return it ?" Will you return it or keep the money .
Which god would rule you ? See what I mean ? THIS is the god I speak of
and he exists in your life as well. The compassionate one that convinces
you
to do what is truly RIGHT is the TRUE GOD. But you can choose to follow
the
other god that says lie and tell her you love her just to get in her pants.
Keep the wallet because you can use the money.
Which god would you follow.
JG>What is it that keeps you alive ? What is it that you emjoy and pursue.
JS> Oxygen, food..etc keeps me alive.
JS> Sex and arguing with fundies.
JG>What makes life worth living to you.
JS> My wife..my children...fundies...waiting for the Eagles to win the
JS> superbowl.
JG>I say THAT is your true God !
JS> I asked for YOUR true god.
Well I have given you that answer up above.
JG>Each of us have our own true God. But there is another TRUTH that is
JG>absolute. And when people center their lives around that true god of
TRUTH
JG>then all who do center their lives around the absolute truth will be
in
JG>unity with it. We choose what will be our god. We choose to interpret
JG>or perceive the truth to fit our own agenda. When we can rise above that
JG>temptation and allow our agenda to fall in order to accept the truth,
then
JG>we move our center closer to the god of TRUTH. And the more each indiviual
JG>does this, the more united they become in being with god. All the other
JG>people who cling to their own agendas and chosen perceptions ofthe truth
JG>will remain apart from the absolute truth of the god of TRUTH.
JS> I have no true god. I have no god. There is no god (as described
JS> by man) to be united with. Each religion has an agenda.
i am not disagreeing with you, and religion does not equal god. Of course
you have a true god. There must be something inside you, that tells you
whether such concepts as "it is good to love one another" is true or false.
You spoke of "compassion" above. Is it good to have compassion ? Does it
make the world a better place ? Is it the "right" thing to do ? True ?
JS> The question still remains...what/who is YOUR true god?
My god is the TRUTH ! So whatever turns out to be the "truth" of creation,
is my god. Whatever is TRUE is the god I strive to find and serve. I don't
always succeed, but it is my desire.
... My hard disk is full! Maybe I'll try this message section thing.
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
* Origin: 7TH Heaven * Toronto, Ont * (416) 969-9480 (1:250/618)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 250/618 601 99 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Jim Germiquet
|To: John Steinson
|Sub: Re: A FAIR & JUST GOD
|Date: 27 Apr 96 12:26:49
EID:7e1d 209b6340
this is what John Steinson had to say to Jim Germiquet about Re: A FAIR
& JUST GO JG> JG>Free will is so valuable because it allows us to choose
between doing
JG> JG>what feels good to us physically, and what is the RIGHT thing to
do or
JG> JG>spiritually.
JG> JS> I've noticed some talk of free will. Do you agree with me that
if
JG> JS> man has free will, then god cannot be omni.*?
JG>Just because you CHOOSE not to take action , does not mean you are
JG>unable to do so. God CHOOSES to allow man to have a free will because
JG>that is what it is all about. The bible says man is created in the
JG>image of god . So use your own
JG>image to understand why god would do this.
JS> You are assuming from the start that god exists. Please prove it.
JS> The Bible is a series of books put together by men. I like to know
JS> what criteria they used in choosing the documents.
I have already proven god exist in my last message, by simply "defining"
it/him. The reason I put a "him" there is because it is a "personal" god,
it is that person inside of you that urges you to have "compassion" :-)
The bible is full of declarations of what people believe is truly good.
Or what the spirit of god is telling them. Of course the "true" god, is
the one that is ultimately "true/right/good". But we each have our own
perceptional of god that we choose as our own personal god which may or
may not be in line with the true god. Such things as "murder and theft"
are basically universally "wrong" other things like "eating meat" depends
on society or personal values.
And if you believe it is wrong to eat meat and you do it, then you sin.
If you HONESTLY beleive it is okay to eat meat and you do it, then it
is NOT sin.
JG>If you love something set it free.
JG>If it comes back to you it is yours.
JG>If it does not, it never was.
JG>Do you not understand the truth of this ? God didn't want to create a
robot
JG>or a slave or a puppet to fellowship with. God was alone. Just as one
of the
JG>needs of man is to love and to be loved, God also needs this. But love
has
JG>to be freely given, or it isn't love. SO while God COULD make us do what
JG>is right and obey him, he CHOOSES to let us go and then call us back
to him,
JG>because we LOVE him , because we WANT to come back, not because we HAVE
to.
JS> So..if we have freewill, then god isn't omnisicant?
Depends on your definition of omnisicant, let me look it up .... the
closest I can come is omnipotent meaning having unlimited authority or
power. Well first of all, I am not in FULL possession of the ability to
comprehend "god the creator" or any God for that matter, I am still having
trouble dealing with the one who tries to convince me to do the right thing
over what I might want to do for my own purposes. But the CONCEPT of an
omnipotent god who chooses not to be is a good one. Is he omnipotent even
if he chooses not to excercise the power. Under the defintion up there,
it
certainly would seem that an omnipotent god who has the POWER could choose
not to use it and still be ominpotent because it says unlimited authority,
OR power not AND power, so he could choose to give up the "authority" and
still have the power which in itself would still make him omnipotent.
JG>Now I am not sure exactly what this God is, but I believe he is like
JG>man only not trapped in a physical body.
JG>Jesus said we must be born again. We are born physically of water, we
JG>must also be born spiritually.
JS> To say that we must be born spirtitually is false.
Would you care to explain this or am I just to take your word for it?
As humans we have the ability to conceptualize, so when someone says
the door is open, we can understand what they mean if they say a flower
is open. To be "born spiritually" is a CONCEPT, it means that man has
evolved to a state where he can choose to do something because it is
the right thing to do. He has a concept of good and evil. These are
spiritual values, love hate hope faith. "There is an evil spirit about
this place". He has the "spirit" kindness in him. It is defined as the
incorporeal part of a man. Man can live as an animal, but he can also live
as a humane, civilized, spiritual person.
Of course I didnt mean we MUST be born spiritually PERIOD even though I
did put one there :-) It should have gone on to say, if we want to know
the god of spiritual things like TRUTH, HOPE, FAITH, LOVE.
JG>We evolved physically into a human animal.
JG>We evolved spiritually into a human spirit.
JS> Please show that we have evolved spiritually into a human spirit.
That is this whole concept of "the knowledge of good and evil".
... Mary had a little RAM -- only about a MEG or so.
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
* Origin: 7TH Heaven * Toronto, Ont * (416) 969-9480 (1:250/618)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 250/618 601 99 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Jim Germiquet
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Re: A FAIR & JUST GOD
|Date: 27 Apr 96 12:26:50
EID:1f13 209b6340
this is what Dan Ceppa had to say to Jim Germiquet about Re: A FAIR & JUST
GOD... -> On 04-19-96 17:09, Jim Germiquet got back to Dan Ceppa
DC> IOW, your god allows people to make mistakes and send them to hell
DC> even though he can prevent it.
JG> God sends no one to hell. People CHOOSE to go there. PERIOD !
DC> I don't choose to go to your imaginary hell. Period. What are
DC> you going to do about it?
It is not a question of choosing it. It is like refusing to eat, or take
any
sustenance into your body, and the saying "I refuse to die of starvation."
You can say it all you want, but if you don't choose to eat, then you are
still going to die no matter how loud you shout I refuse to die.
If you refuse to eat spiritually, you will die spiritually. That equals
going to hell. You are not SENT there, it is a result of your choices.
JG> God cannot prevent people from going to hell, because to do so would
JG> not allow them to be people. They would be puppets, slaves or robots.
DC> Instead, he nicely cajoles them with a carrot and a large whip.
No instead he offers them FREE salvation just for the asking.
JG> Also how does a person come into existence ? Does
JG> god wave a magic wand ?
DC> That's good... Throw out all of those miracles for a bit of
DC> healing and damn the rest of the people for not believing in
JG> Too bad you didn't quote the following paragraphs. They would have
DC> No need to quote them, as the above quote of yours was the only
DC> one there that started to sound a bit lucid. The remainder was
DC> just you sliding ass backwards into fundydom.
HAHAHAHAHA and AGAIN you are afraid to quote the CONCEPT and CONTEXT in
which the words were meant. I must really have struck a nerve there
somewhere. Something you are so afraid to face and comment on. It shows
that you are not interested in the TRUTH of the words, but just want to
take them out of context to ridicule them.
... "Transporter chief Ceppa, beam the landing party to the bridge"
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
* Origin: 7TH Heaven * Toronto, Ont * (416) 969-9480 (1:250/618)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 250/618 601 99 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Jim Germiquet
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Re: A LITTLE HELP FROM SP
|Date: 27 Apr 96 12:26:50
EID:c70b 209b6340
this is what Dan Ceppa had to say to Jim Germiquet about Re: A LITTLE HELP
FROM S -> On 04-19-96 17:09, Jim Germiquet got back to Dan Ceppa
JG> GOD IS A SPIRIT ! As such he speaks to the spirits of men who in their
DC> Got any evidence to demonstrate this "spirit" of yours exists? And
if
DC> men have "spirits" they are the equivalent of your god. As such, he
DC> can't do a damn thing to them.
He may just CHOOSE not to. Equivalent to god ? Is a toy duck with one
wing broken off, the equivalent of a real duck ? Is a real duck with
a broken wing, the equivalent of completely healthy duck. Your
statement of being equivalency hardly makes it so.
But you definately are the god of your own life. You definately can
choose to do right or wrong. It is all up to YOU ! Those who choose to
do what god advices , are a part of god,
those who choose to not be a part of god choose to be a part of hell.
Simple. Either you do what is right or you dont. there is no third option.
You know EVERYTHING in life is like that. It is just like a computer.
Each bit has only 2 choices ON or OFF.
JG> them. There is interference in this procedure due to things like
JG> ignorance or inability of man to comprehend what god is saying and
DC> Too bad your omnipotent god can't work his way around the trivial
DC> little matter. Not much of a god, is he.
It is our choice and part of what makes us who we are. PEOPLE, not
robots, slaves, or puppets, Free to CHOOSE ! God speaks to you everyday,
whether you choose to listen to him or do what he says, is totally up
to YOU !
JG> savagery in people. SO yes a savage people who might not be able to
JG> comprehend or accept any other edict from god, than that which they
JG> were willing to hear.
Even savagery was a chosen way back then as you seem to be pointing out.
Ghengis Kahn or Idi Amin. So I suppose you are right. In any time period,
it has been mans choice to be savage or civilized.
DC> And those are the people that you accept the conclusions of your
DC> bible. You should pick your sources a lot better than you have.
the bible is also a history book of a people who have "admittedly" chosen
to disobey their god over and over again. So even that suggests that what
they CHOSE to believe and do and give God credit for depended on their
own willingness to hear the voice of god, And lets not forget that the
savagery of our oppressors can also bring out the savagery in us, contrary
to what god may want of our oppressors or us. I am sure god wants us all
to live in harmony but if we are attacked by others who do not listen to
god, what would god tell us to do ?
DC> Now, do explain why your god talked to a bunch of savages and
DC> ignored the far advanced societies that where extant at the
JG> Individuality. As even today SOME people are willing to listen to
DC> Such classic individuals such as Dahmer, Koresh, Jones, Hitler? Yep,
DC> god does have a nice habit of picking the scum of society to be
DC> his spokesmen.
Is that who YOU believe was talking to these people ? Is that the
God YOU believe in ? If so then you have chosen your god to be the same
as their god. My god did not tell those people to do what they did,
their god did.
If I get a group of people together and go around slaughtering people
in the name of my god, DAN CEPPA, Are YOU responsible for what I am
doing ? Well neither is Jesus responsible for those who do things that
are not accoring to his teachings of "Love goodness and truth" and "Love
your neighbor".
JG> And what did Jesus say. I came to heal the sick. God spoke to the
JG> "savages" to heal them of their savagery :-) It takes a long time.
DC> It would take a lot less time if the death cult never occured.
Jesus said there would be wolves in sheeps clothing.
Jesus said not all who say Lord Lord will enter into the kingdom of god.
But those who do the will of my father in heaven. Do you think those
people you mentioned were doing the will of the "true god" ? Is that the
god you believe in ? OF COURSE NOT !! And that is why you choose not to
believe in God. But I tell you, get to know god PERSONALLY and you will
see that he is NOT the god those people claimed to be following.
... This tagline is SHAREWARE! To register, send me $10
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
* Origin: 7TH Heaven * Toronto, Ont * (416) 969-9480 (1:250/618)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 250/618 601 99 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Jim Germiquet
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Re: ADOLPH HITLER
|Date: 27 Apr 96 12:26:50
EID:d220 209b6340
this is what Dan Ceppa had to say to Jim Germiquet about Re: ADOLPH HITLER...
-> On 04-19-96 17:09, Jim Germiquet got back to Dan Ceppa
JG> come near quoting my message, but choose to make a comment only on
JG> the preamble. How sad.
DC> The sad part is the fact that you have nothing at all to say other
DC> than has been programmed into you by your handlers.
And who are my "handlers" ? I have ears and eyes, My input is from
the same world you live in. But it is how I choose to interpret that
input. What credit I give to the value of that input. I give little
value to evidence of Jimmy Jones or David Koresh. WHile they may
interpret the bible in such a way as to justify what they did, that
is not the interpretation that my god has revealed to me. You think all
this is being programmed by my "handlers" ? Again I ask , who do you
think my "handlers" are ?
... My other computer is a VAX.
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
* Origin: 7TH Heaven * Toronto, Ont * (416) 969-9480 (1:250/618)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 250/618 601 99 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Jim Germiquet
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Re: Claims Of Deity Const
|Date: 27 Apr 96 12:26:50
EID:7669 209b6340
this is what Dan Ceppa had to say to Jim Germiquet about Re: Claims Of Deity
Cons -> On 04-19-96 17:09, Jim Germiquet got back to Dan Ceppa
JG> Obviously it is a FORCE, because as a "spirit" it is not a physical
DC> It's rather strange that forces can be measured but your god can't.
JG> Depends on whether or not you are williing to accept the measurement.
DC> A single measurement never provides data.
JG> The measurement is how much you are willing to accept the truth and
DC> I accept facts. Describe a repeatable test that shows that your
DC> got exits outside your imagination.
Are you demanding "physical" evidence ? God is a spirit. I can only give
you spiritual evidence. And that evidence you can see all around you in
the world today. Those who love one another and speak the truth are those
who prove the existence of the spirit of God. Those who hurt one another
and lie, prove the existence of the spirit of satan. Which spirit do you
serve ? Truth and love ? Lies and hate ?
JG> Reality? Or PERCEPTION of reality ? Are we REALLY made of "flesh and
JG> blood" or is that just a PERCEPTION ? Maybe we are REALLY made of
DC> You sound like an excellent candidate to perform Hector's Experiment.
WHat is the difference between a LIVE body, and a DEAD body of someone
who has just had a heart attack. All the same chemicals and nutrients and
genes, and proteins body parts are all there. The only thing gone out of
the body is the "LIFE". What is this "life thing" ? And sometimes, we
can give this person an electric shock after this "life thing" has gone
out of their body, and we can force that "life thing" back into their
body. What is that life thing and where does it go until it is brought
back into the body ?
Just something to think about.
... Two most common elements in the universe: Hydrogen & Stupidity.
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
* Origin: 7TH Heaven * Toronto, Ont * (416) 969-9480 (1:250/618)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 250/618 601 99 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Jim Germiquet
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Re: Claims of deity construct
|Date: 26 Apr 96 03:44:00
EID:e240 209a1d80
this is what Martin Goldberg had to say to Jim Germiquet about Re: Claims
of deit MG>> Ho hum.......this is true only if you wnat them to mean just
MG>> what you wnat them to mean.
JG> THAT is the whole point of using words. SO they mean what you
JG> want them to mean so that you can get your message or idea
JG> across to the other person. If I want you to know it was a 12
JG> foot dog with three ears, then I cant just say it was a dog !
JG> I have to go into detail.
MG> This is correct, but it is not what you originally said. You must
It is very easy for a person to use their own words meaning. For example,
I may say my dog bit the postman. I know my dog is 12 feet and has 3 ears,
but I may not go into detail about what my dog looks like, until it is
necessary to do so. And with a topic like "god" or "love", anyone would
have to admit that there are as many defintions as there are people for
those words. Even Christians are divided into baptists and methodists and
evangelists, because of their different definitions of words.
MG> take the evidence that you have and interpret it correctly. You cannot
MG> look at evidence and decide right away that it means only wht you wnat
MG> it to mean. In other words, you do not paint your conclusions and then
MG> try to fit the data within them.
Of course I do ! That is the whole point. That is what is suppose to happen.
The same with science. What you are SUPPOSE to do, is examine the evidence
and then build the theory around the evidence. What some people try to do
is gather and shape the evidence to fit their theory, which is clearly
wrong, but so easy to do.
So in this case, I gather the evidence, and then based on that evidence,
I describe what my word "god" means.
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
* Origin: 7TH Heaven * Toronto, Ont * (416) 969-9480 (1:250/618)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 250/618 601 99 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Jim Germiquet
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Re: Poor Little White Boy
|Date: 27 Apr 96 12:26:49
EID:21a8 209b6340
this is what J.j. Hitt had to say to Jim Germiquet about Re: Poor Little
White Bo JH> On Apr 18 17:10 96, Jim Germiquet of 1:250/618 wrote:
JG> We are talking about how women have a government organization
JG> set up to fight men who now are threatened with not getting free
JG> legal aid in divorce and custody cases. Equal rights ? Or unfair
JG> womens rights?
JH> And just what is the name of this "government organization" ?
The Family Support Plan.
... ARRRRRGGGHHH!!!! ... Tension breaker, had to be done.
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
* Origin: 7TH Heaven * Toronto, Ont * (416) 969-9480 (1:250/618)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 250/618 601 99 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Jim Germiquet
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Re: Thumb-sucking Fundy
|Date: 27 Apr 96 12:26:50
EID:7fd9 209b6340
this is what Dan Ceppa had to say to Jim Germiquet about Re: Thumb-sucking
Fundy. -> On 04-19-96 17:09, Jim Germiquet got back to Dan Ceppa
JG> the point that you were whining and crying about how cruel god
JG> was in asking Abraham to sacrifice his son. And I point out that the
DC> Nice insecure god you worship, Jim. Asks people to kill kids so
DC> that he knows how much his worshippers love the bastard.
JG> That Americans KILLED thousands of women and children for YOU.
DC> If that is the case, I will renounce my citizenship, as I will not
DC> condon the likes of killing innocent people, like your god is
JG> YAWN ! You cant even be consistant in two quotes. First you praise the
DC> No, like Mikey, you have yet to be able to provide an analogy that
DC> holds water.
Again you dont have the guts to quote the entire passage you are responding
to. But even my original statement stands on its own merit. I also expect
you
to renounce your citizenship in humanity, because tell me of a nation that
never went to war and killed innocent people.
DC> "Necessary"? You are a fucking piece of work. Your "god" is
DC> supposedly omnipotent and it can't save an innocent life? I find
Again you want to blame god for YOUR choices. I take it you are STILL
a citizen even though you vowed to renounce it. That means you DO
support a system that killed innocent people. Remember Hiroshima ?
Were all those women and children guilty ?
JG> Well you seem to be enjoying the freedom of speach right now that you
JG> would not have if Germany or Japan had won the war.
DC> Did you notice your evasion, Jim? Did you see that you did not
DC> address the question that your _god_ could have prevented every
DC> single one of thos deaths? Did you notice the he was conspicuously
DC> absent?
I did not evade the question at all. God has given us free will. We
have CHOSEN to kill innocent people. OUR CHOICE. STOP BLAMING GOD !!!
JG> created is really so bad, why havent you ended your own misery yet ?
JG> You must like what god created.
DC> Provide the evidence that your god created anything, Jim. It's
DC> you that are trying to get nearer to him and are avoiding the
DC> reality that you can do it.
Well thanks for saying that it is a reality that we can get nearer ti
god. What prompted this sudden about face ? :-)
That is easy. I simply DEFINE god as whatever created the universe, no
matter WHAT it was from a "big bang" to a "quantum fluctuation" to
"mother goose". Whatever the TRUTH turns out to be. I have no agenda. No
need to prove god is some kind of white bearded man with a magic wand
that sits on a throne. God = TRUTH first and above all else !
... New Mail not found. Start whine-pout sequence? (Y/N)
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
* Origin: 7TH Heaven * Toronto, Ont * (416) 969-9480 (1:250/618)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 250/618 601 99 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Jim Germiquet
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Re: Your Daily Murder [1/2] [1/2]
|Date: 26 Apr 96 03:44:00
EID:8b86 209a1d80
this is what Sue Armstrong had to say to Jim Germiquet about Your Daily
Murder [1 >>> Part 1 of 2...
SA> A lone voice in the wilderness, Jim mournfully howled out "Your Daily
SA> Murder [1/2]"
JG> We were talking in reference to the mentality of the people of 10,000
JG> years ago in a far different social atmosphere, and PS wanted to
SA> No, you weren't.
JG> I will be the judge about what "I" was speaking in referrence to. If
JG> you were misunderstanding that, then I will again say that is what
JG> I was referring to. I was talking about a 10,000 year old WAR event
JG> and a parralel was tried to be drawn to a man living next door in
JG> todays society. They hardly match but I did the best I could. But the
JG> situation was supposed to be in referrence to what the conditions may
JG> have been 10,000 years ago in a less civilized society or certainly
JG> less peacful and secure society than we enjoy now with our laws.
SA> Oh, so it was OK that they disregarded their own rules and acted the
SA> way they did?
Where did I say it was "OK" ? I never at anytime said it was a good thing
to do. Anymore than I would say it was a good thing to kill the Nazis and
the Japanese, but sometimes people do terrible things for what THEY may
consider to be good reasons. And WE have no right to sit in our safe house
next to a telephone that we can dial 911 on if we hear a scratch at the
back
door and call the terrible people because they did terrible things to a
people that may have raped and tortured their own parents. And the "enemy"
in this case is not the individual men women or children, but the nation
as a whole. And I have recently read that this WAS a common practice in
ancient times, and not one relegated to the bible and the people of Israel.
It was how war was COMMONLY waged back then and considered proper treatment
of the losers BACK THEN ! Understand ? So their rules may be quite different
from what we may perceive them to be. AND if they did go against their own
rules, or their gods rules no one is saying it was "OK".
BTW The whole bible is a record of how the Israeli people continually went
against their own god and repented time and time again.
JG> such a way that does not invite this marauding neighbor to make you
his
JG> next victim, by 1) giving him no cause to attack you , and 2) making
it
SA> Letting an enemy walk in, and doing nothing about it (or allying
SA> yourself with him) IS turncoating.
JG> It is like when the Americans formed an alliance with the Russians to
JG> get rid of a greater threat like Hitler. It was like the British
JG> appeasement policy that allowed Hitler to take over so many countries
SA> It is not the same at all. Your example was "If someone were to
SA> threaten my neighbourhood, I'd team up with the force threatening it
SA> so they wouldn't have a reason to attack me". That's turncoating.
It was a STUPID example that I did the best I could with. To equate
a neighborhood of todays society with a warring society and nation
of 10,000 years ago is the stupidity. I did my best to put it in
perspective using the attitudes those people 10,000 years ago may have
had.
SA> The Americans fought with the Russians against a _common enemy_, one
Any enemy is a "common enemy" in the perception of the persecuted people.
SA> that threatened most of the world at the time. This is more of a
Again if the world I live in is threatened, to me it IS the whole world.
SA> case of putting aside differences for the moment to team against an
SA> even worse threat to both, NOT teaming up with the greatest threat
SA> in order to cover one's own ass.
Not teaming up with them, but simply not becomming a target or an enemy
of them.
JG> before he was finally stopped, how far do you go to avoid war ? You
JG> have to make some kind of concessions. It comes down to as long as the
JG> enemy leaves you alone, you leave them alone. But sometimes you have
to
JG> take a stand to protect your own way of life if the enemy threatens
to
JG> take over everyone one at a time like Hitler did. Should Britain have
SA> Your analogy would have you teaming with Hitler so that he wouldn't
SA> attack you.
No my analogy was like the British Appeasement policy almost exactly. For
the first few takeovers, Britain said it was between that country and
Germany and they didn't butt in.
JG> stepped in sooner ? Then you would say "WHat business was it of
JG> Britains if Germany invaded Romania ?"
SA>
SA> Should the Brits have joined with Germany so that they wouldn't be
SA> next?
In my example, I did not say to "join" which you have done to make yourself
look like you are in the right. I said simply have a non aggression pact.
You don't attack me, I wont attack you.
JG> known such an attack would cost more than it would be worth.
SA> By allying yourself with him, it makes it VERY worthwhile for him to
At no time did I ever suggest Allying myself with him. I said to be
non aggressiver with in other words, not attack.
..... Did I say "friends" with ? If so then yes i used a bad word, and
I didnt mean it in terms of being an ally with, but merely not being an
enemy of.
SA> attack; then he can just take what he wants and knows that you won't
SA> lift a finger to stop him. The coward's way out.
JG>
JG> The question was why would he attack me if I was a STRONG ally who
JG> could hurt him if he attacked me ? SO he would leave me alone and
JG> attack those he knew could not hurt him instead. Now what I could
JG> do is offer asylum to those lesser neighbors by having them join me
JG> as part of my house. Then I get stronger, and they are protected as
JG> well and if the other person attacks this new part of my house, they
JG> are breaking their alliance with me and then would suffer accordingly.
SA> ROFL! It doesn't work that way. Your neighours wouldn't want
SA> anything at all to do with you - because then YOU would be the
SA> enemy, and would be fighting alongside that enemy.
I never at any point said I would fight alongside the enemy. In fact the
only fighting I mentioned was if the enemy attacked me, I would be strong
enough to kick their butt.
SA> Are you really this dense, or did you get a brick implanted into
SA> your brain?
I hardly think this was called for. But then it shows who the real
aggressor or "barbarian" is, in this exchange of messages.
JG> To parrallel a WARLIKE social country situation with a peaceful law
JG> oriented FAMILY social obviously is obviously going to present these
JG> problems of conceptualization.
SA> Bullshit. If the warlike society attacks the peaceful society, the
SA> peaceful society has every right to defend itself. If it doesn't,
SA> it digs its own grave.
That is exactly the point I was making which you ridiculed when I made it,
but now present it as a point in your favor. Kind of hypocritical.
I never at any point said a peaceful society shouldn't defend itself. And
of course that is what happened in the bible, you seem to forget that it
was the Jews that were attacked in the first place and they took this
viscious retribution on their enemy. NOW you turn around and agree with
this principle. What you fail to understand is that in those days, unlike
in our society, that was how they protected themselves from future attack.
JG> Of course this reply is meant for people who want to understand what
JG> is being said and not for people like you whose only intent is to
JG> ridicule and insult others .
SA>
SA> That is not my intent. However, you dig your own grave - in this
SA> post as well - by your own words, and whatever abuse you attract,
SA> you have it coming.
THIS is the kind of "justification" that starts wars. And I suggest that
YOU would be far more likely to start a war, than I would , and YOU have
shown it by your insults and attacks of name calling and ridicule.
JG> Well prove it is not your intent, by taking the examples in the
JG> context they are given.
SA>
SA> I did - and you still dig your own grave.
No you didn't, you picked out little things instead of considering the
whole analogy.
... "Milhouse, we live in the age of cooties!" - Bart Simpson
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
* Origin: 7TH Heaven * Toronto, Ont * (416) 969-9480 (1:250/618)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 250/618 601 99 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Larry Bevard
|To: John Steinson
|Sub: [INSERT DRIVEL HERE](1/3)
|Date: 27 Apr 96 21:59:00
EID:8727 209baf60
MSGID: 1:3615/51 001858cd
<<***** Split Message. Part 1 Of 3 *****>>
Hi John,
<** On 04-24-96, John Steinson said to Larry Bevard: **>
JS>
JS>
JS>LB> The Difference between God and the other "gods" are that God has
JS>LB>made Himself know to us, and helps us. The other "gods" demand only
JS>LB>worship and sacrifice from us, with nouthing in return.
JS>
JS> That's the first time I heard that statement. I've heard other
JS> religions getting messages from their gods as well.
JS> Therefore..I have no choice but to conclude that your answer is
JS> false.
Yeh, rereading it, I did oversimplify. If we talk about the 'gods' of
primitives, then this is true. They do think that if they don't honor god
then they will be punished, crops would fail, rain don't come, etc., but
if
the gods are please then good things happen. If you read the Old Testement,
this is what the Israelites thought of their God too. The thing that makes
God different than even what the Israelites thought is that God walked with
them, talked with them, cared for them and yes even disciplined them when
the did wrong. Another thing that is different is that God takes the
sinners and wants us to be humble in order to bring us to heaven. The other
modern religions 'gods' demand that we become good enough to be worthy of
getting near them, in fact, in some religions, you have to live many. many
lives in order to become perfect. God, with his power, takes us as imperfect
and makes us perfect for Him.
JS>
JS>LB>JS>
JS>LB>JS>God can't be proven. Best argument going.
JS>LB>JS>Every time science figures something out...there is one more nail
JS>in
JS>LB>JS>the coffin of religion.
JS>LB>JS>The more we learn from science, the more faith it requires to
JS>believe
JS>LB>JS>in god.
JS>
JS>LB> I thoughly disagree here. I come from a science background and
JS>see
JS>LB>in our searching the everytime science finds one answer, it also comes
JS>LB>up with dozens of more questions. Science thought that they had the
JS>LB>universe figured out and then they discovered pulsars and quasars
and
JS>LB>other objects that did not fit. The way I see it, the more we
JS>discover
JS>LB>about ourselves and our universe, the more we see the wonder of the
JS>Creator.
JS>
JS> I guess that if you have faith..then anything is possable.
Amen to that.
JS>LB> The second part of this is the main purpose of science is to
JS>examine
JS>LB>the physical only, and leave the spiritual to spirituallist. Thus,
in
JS>LB>the 1800's when this division first started, scientist started
JS>believing
JS>LB>that anything spiritual was quackery, since it could not be directly
JS>LB>measured or examined, it did not fit into the physical sciences.
JS>LB>psycology for a long time, and to a certain point it still is true,
JS>was
JS>LB>not considered a proper science, since it dealt with 'spiritual'
JS>LB>matters. It has found some exceptance only because of the study of
JS>LB>psyco-active drugs, but theapy is still looked upon as
JS>witch-doctoring.
JS>
JS> How do we measure "god did this...that?"
I do agree with you in that many of the things that I would say God did
this
or that, you or I could point out how we can show that it was a process
of
nature that naturally occures. Even to ask the question then of who
determined that nature acts the way it does, you can say because that it
the
only way it could happen (eventhough a lot of scientist would disagree,
even
Carl Sagan). But, there are things that defy science, that sometimes they
even ejnor because it doesn't fit with the natural order.
JS>LB> Slowly, some of the top scientist are starting to see the validity
JS>LB>of the spirital word as it effects the physical.
JS>
JS> And some scientists believe that the white race is superior, some
are
JS> alcholics, etc.
Thanks for admitting that not all scientist are right. We have been saying
this for a long time. But, how do you then choose which scientist to
believe? Is it only the ones that you agree with?
JS>LB>JS>DH>6. Are you saying that there is a right and a wrong? Where
do
JS>your
<<***** Continued Next Message *****>>
---
þ VbReader 2.22 #NR þ **FLASH** Eveready Bunny arrested, charged with battery.
* Origin: 1:3615/50 (1:3615/51)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 283/730 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Larry Bevard
|To: John Steinson
|Sub: [INSERT DRIVEL HERE](2/3)
|Date: 27 Apr 96 21:59:00
EID:c327 209baf60
MSGID: 1:3615/51 001858dd
<<***** Split Message. Part 2 Of 3 *****>>
JS>LB>JS>standard come from?
JS> Murder is legal term, an unlawful taking of a another life.
JS> I watched an interesting show that diccused canabilism of animals.
JS> Quite a few would eat their young, or the young of other animals of
JS> the same species.
JS> Quite often is was the female who need the extra protein to raise
JS> their own children.
JS> Sometimes it was the male of the species that ate the young of
JS> opposing male leader. By eliminating the young of the previous male
JS> leader, this would insure the blood line of the more stronger male.
JS> Among the chimpanzees...they would on occasions allow a female from
JS> another group to enter their group. On the occassion that the new
JS> female had her first born...it would often be killed. This was to
JS> ensure that the newborn was of the groups "heritage" and not a product
JS> of an outside male chimp.
JS>
JS> While this seems cruel to us...it seems to be nature's method of
JS> keeping a certain blood line, genetic line, or group heritage strong.
JS>
JS> If god is real..then this is god's way for animals to exsist in the
JS> wild.
JS> Jesus may be real, and said wonderful things. So did Martin L. King.
Yes, God's way is wonderful. But, does what happen in the animal kingdom
have direct reflection on what we should do? Even in a naturalistic view
point, Man is the highest form of life differing by our copacity to think
and reason. The Biblic view is that we were created to be caretakers of
this world and made in the image of God, making us special. In either case,
we are above the animals, and should behave differently.
And as far as Jesus and Martin L. King, yes they both said and did wonderful
things, expecially since M. L. King was a preacher for Christianity and
formed his words form the teachings of Jesus.
JS> Larry said....
JS>
JS> The concept of what is Good and what is Evil should not change with
JS>time if it was built into man, but most people believe is "situational
JS>Morality", what is good or evil changes with the situation it is in.
JS>
JS> I reply...
JS>
JS> Slavery was determined not to be evil. But now it is.
JS> The moralities change as situations and education changes.
That is what I was saying about situational Morality. I do see your point
in
that God did not seem to condemned slavery in the past, but He did put
limits on it, and instructed us to treat those in slavery kindly. I feel
that God allowed slavery to continue but instructed the masters to treat
the
slaves with kindness and love because He knew that this would have caused
hardship on the Israelites and also would have been a stumbling block if
they were not allow to keep slaves to help on the farms.
JS> Larry said.....
JS>
JS>Thus, eventhough you agreed that it is wrong to murder, in a situation
JS>of kill or be killed, or even for revenge, others say it is ok to take
JS>matters into your own hands and kill the person that is a threat. Just
JS>look at the guy that went hunting to muggers in New York. He as praised
JS>for killing the two young black men that had mugged him. Now if killing
JS>is wrong, then wasn't he wrong or wouldn't you be wrong if a guy came
JS>into your house and threaten to kill you, and you killed him instead?
JS>
JS> I reply....
JS>
JS> Motivation for killing is important consideration. Is it wrong to
JS> kill if a life is in danger? No.
JS> Is it wrong to kill so that person can get money to buy a new house?
JS> Yes.
JS> All killing is not murder. Therefore, all killing is not morally
JS> wrong.
Killing is still morally wrong, and should not happen if at all possible,
but killing some times cannot be helped as in your and mine examples.
Eventhough killing is wrong morally, it is justifiable in some cases, that
does not take anything away from the moral aspect.
JS> Larry said.....
JS>
JS> That is where a concept of God giving us rules to live by and guide
JS>our lives comes in. He definded once and for all what is good and
JS>acceptable and what is not. By faithfully follow the perfect law of
JS>Love, love each other as we would want to be loved and as God has loved
JS>us, we can't go wrong. If we would like others to forgive us when we
do
JS>something stupid or even illegal, shouldn't we also be willing to
JS>forgive others?
JS>
JS> I reply....
<<***** Continued Next Message *****>>
---
þ VbReader 2.22 #NR þ **FLASH** Eveready Bunny arrested, charged with battery.
* Origin: 1:3615/50 (1:3615/51)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 283/730 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Larry Bevard
|To: John Steinson
|Sub: [INSERT DRIVEL HERE](3/3)
|Date: 27 Apr 96 21:59:00
EID:3f26 209baf60
MSGID: 1:3615/51 001858ea
<<***** Split Message. Part 3 Of 3 *****>>
JS>
JS> Some of the rules do not apply to non-Christians.
I disagree, it is that some non-chirstians either don't know about the rules
or choose to go against these rules, that is what makes them non-chirstians.
The two rules that we all must practice is to Love God with our whole being
and to love one another. Some non-chirstians do a very good job on the
second one but of course not on the first.
Larry Bevard
---
þ VbReader 2.22 #NR þ **FLASH** Eveready Bunny arrested, charged with battery.
* Origin: 1:3615/50 (1:3615/51)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 283/730 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: AIDS
|Date: 27 Apr 96 15:27:01
EID:f840 209b7b60
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 3b0f4e55
PID: FM 2.02
> -=> Quoting John Oliver to Larry Bevard <=-
> JO> not only to gay people but to non-gays as well. Many people with
> JO> HIV/AIDS often go untreated untill too late because they are afraid
of
> JO> the connotation that still exists in many people's minds. And that
is
> JO> the fault of the improper education, and of course religious bigotry.
> And asshole idiots like Liberty-Parker who dump 4 part posts into every
> echo they can find 'proving' that HIV and AIDS are not linked...and that
> AIDS is not contagious.
I like how he uses the "Micro-kernel of Truth" method for doing his lying,
too.
The drugs used to combat AIDS __are__ severely toxic, and reactions to them
CAN lie in the same classes as the symptoms of AIDS itself. This is why
doctors specializing in management of chemotherapies like them make as much
as they do. Handling of those drugs is a task for VERY specialized professionals.
....but note well the HUGE tissue of lies that TLP fabricates off of that
tiny scrap of fact!!
> Try to educate people, change their behavior, slow the spread of the
> disease and then this idiot spreads something like this. I consider his
> posts criminal. Especially for the young people who will find justification
> in those posts for not protecting themselves...and will die because of
it.
Moreover, several of his claims regarding Africa and Haiti are directly
false. As high a predation rate as 40% exists in parts of Uganda; rates
in the upper 30%s aren't unusual in Haiti. Parker's posts directly deny
these facts.
slack -- s.
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: A Believer's Ultimate Victim Is Himself. (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: woids
|Date: 27 Apr 96 15:30:02
EID:c435 209b7bc0
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 3b0f4e56
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 5815e8f2
PID: FM 2.02
> On 22 Apr 96, Martin Goldberg wrote:
> RM> Michael is wrong. The Bible does say (as he put it) that "Pi =
> RM> 3!!" Or at least, a very simple calculation based on data
> RM> supplied in the bible indicates that Pi = 3.
> RM> But you are also wrong. It does NOT say (as you put it) that "Pi
> RM> = 3.0"
> MG> And like Brawley, you go on and on to say that the bible does not
> MG> SPECIFICALLY say that Pi=3.0. Nonsense. It is my background that
> MG> tell me how to look at statements and interpret them. When the bible
> MG> gives a statement that leads to a conclusion such as Pi=3.0, then
I
> MG> must conclude that it is in error. Now you might wnat to say that
the
> But you must also give attention to the entire description. As noted,
> the "bath" was not a cylinder. Read that passage to its end, and see
> for yourself.
I have read the passage to its end.
Where is the exact shape specified??
slack -- s.
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: A Believer's Ultimate Victim Is Himself. (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: it's a long way [Was: Re: article from local paper]
|Date: 27 Apr 96 15:31:03
EID:54ce 209b7be0
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 3b0f4e57
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 317fa85c
PID: FM 2.02
> Marilyn Burge said "it's a long way [Was: Re: article from local paper]"
> to Christopher Baker,
> adding:
> MB> charges. What I did say (and you've so conveniently forgotten)
> MB> is that I'm AMBIVALENT regarding this case. My libertarian side
> MB> says they had a perfect right to practice their religion without
> MB> government interference. My child-advocate side says the child
> MB> has the right to live, despite their cockamamie notions of
> MB> religion.
> Perhaps what is needed is to extend the same liberal
> rules applied to sexual activity to religion: whatever goes
> on between consenting adults, no matter what the
> consequences thereof may be, is no business of government.
> The involvement of children in practices that may be
> injurious to them remains a matter of governmental concern.
Make that INDIVIDUAL concern, and I'll buy it.
slack -- s.
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: A Believer's Ultimate Victim Is Himself. (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sean McCullough
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: ANIMAL ABORTIONS
|Date: 27 Apr 96 15:40:04
EID:8ce5 209b7d00
MSGID: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 3b0f4e58
PID: FM 2.02
> BJ> True, to a point. But the point of the conversation was that in OUR
> BJ> species, the male has created most of the gender roles for the female.
> BJ> Yes, we are evolving and breaking out of those molds, and some of
the
> BJ> more conservative men don't like it too much. I consider myself far
too
> BJ> intelligent to be held back by ANY man.
> The roles naturally evolved,
Hogwash. The gender roles you advocate are the produce of wealthy European
men in the mid-19th century, who wanted to prevent "their" women from ever
enjoying self-determination.
The vast majority of men who had to work for a living knew better, then
and now.
The idea of women not working outside the home was an anomaly of the late
19th and early 20th centuries CE. Prior to about 1850, women had to work
outside to make ends meet (as often did children as well).
> and unfortunately attitudes about the
> importance of those roles and the equality of men and women and those
> roles, became twisted and the female roles were maligned and
> discreditted by both men and women.
As well they should be, being constructed by design to deny self-determination
to half of the human race.
> Men refused to acknowledge that these roles were as important as mens
roles.
That's because they weren't.
> Women bought into this idea and as a result
> sought freedom to pursue the so called more important role of provider
> and
> career person. Add this to the men who thought because their paycheck
> had
> their name on it, that it belonged only to them, and it makes a volatile
> situation, that had to explode into a power struggle.
A complete tissue of lies and misrepresentations, as usual.
> In the words of Rodney King "Can't we all just get along " :-) as
> "equal" but "different" genders with equal but different responsibilities
?
Nope.
As the Supreme Court stated in the classic __Brown v. Board of Education__
decision, separate (or "different" as you term it) is INHERENTLY unequal.
Live with it.
We're NOT going back.
slack -- s.
--- FMail 0.94
* Origin: A Believer's Ultimate Victim Is Himself. (1:128/203.666)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 128/203 166 1 190 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: [1/3] Allegory 1/2
|Date: 26 Apr 96 14:48:58
EID:7b7e 209a7600
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 317aff34
MSGID: 1:229/622 3180e29e
CHRS: IBMPC 2
Adding to a message of Richard Smith to Marilyn Burge:
MB>> My fundy friend is pained by his church's stance regarding the
MB>> fellowship of smokers, for example. He says that they cannot join his
MB>> church, yet an overweight person can. This is true, even though both
MB>> behavior patterns are a form of self-abuse.
RS> Sorry to but in here (and no pun intended, really!), but this makes
RS> sense to me as follows: the overweight people and the smokers BOTH
RS> share a bad behavior pattern, that is true. The overweight person
RS> endangers themself. But the smoker, because of second-hand smoke,
RS> etc., also endangers anyone else in the room. However, I'm not sure
RS> as to why they should be banned from the church, usually making it
RS> impossible to smoke in or anywhere around the church is enough to
RS> safeguard health concerns. I'd love to hear what he has to say about
RS> this, btw.
They're jealous. The smokers get to meet Jesus sooner.
--- FleetStreet 1.15+
* Origin: Serenity Base - daveh@sbase.com (905) 987-3724 (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 229/622 438 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: DEFENDING THE BISHOP
|Date: 26 Apr 96 15:10:26
EID:b3fe 209a7940
REPLY: 1:109/601.0 317c64ab
MSGID: 1:229/622 3180e8e3
CHRS: IBMPC 2
Replying to a message of Lynda Bustilloz to Michael Hardy:
I'm new here, so please tell me to back off if I'm not welcome, but
this looks like a place to jump in...
MH>> As for "ulterior," spiritual health is as important as physical
MH>> health -- moreso, really -- and I wouldn't apologize for being
MH>> concerned about it. It's part of an overall motive to help people.
MH>> You
There is no general overall motive to help people. An observer can
always ask "who gets the payoff?" and discover varying answers.
LB> But that makes the assumption that everyone who comes for physical
LB> help is in need of a Christian-brand of spiritual health. Suppose
LB> the girl in question is Jewish? In order to be "spiritually healthy"
LB> must she be subjected to hearing that her people missed the boat, and
LB> failed to recognize the Messiah? Can she be "spiritually healthy"
LB> without being told that she needs to convert? (Whether she is
LB> *required* to actually convert before receiving assistance or not,
LB> she IS being required to hear those who are assisting her tell her
LB> that her faith is misplaced.) Query -- how likely would you be to
LB> GET the help you need if, in exchange, you had to go past someone who
LB> would tell you your faith is deluded? If, say, Fred, offered you
LB> help you needed, but made you listen to an hour speech on how "better
LB> educated" he was, and how wrong YOU are, would you go, or would you
LB> tough it out without any help at all?
MH>> may disagree about whether the help is needed, but an ulterior motive
MH>> is one which is ultimately self-serving, and caring for someone
MH>> else's soul isn't that.
Depends on why one is caring.
MH>> Second case in point: In Pensacola, some evangelicals run Loaves
&
MH>> Fishes, which provides food and shelter to the homeless. Again, no
MH>> profession of faith is required, and no pretty packages are
MH>> expected.
BJ>> Have you experienced a Christian run soup kitchen or aid agency
BJ>> firsthand? I have. There is a certain amount of pressure there. At
BJ>> the very least, they expect you to sit down and listen to them
BJ>> proselythize for about an hour...
MH>> Good. That's exactly what they should do. Sorry Becke, but you aren't
MH>> going to extract any remorse from me over Christians heeding their
MH>> call to win others to Christ.
MH>> The key question is, do they demand profession of faith before giving
MH>> material help? If they do, I'll join you in saying they're wrong. If
MH>> they give the material help regardless, then I will stand with them
MH>> in their evangelism.
LB> I was ready to retract the IMPLIED statement that liberals have a lock
LB> on unconditional assistance (although if you re-read my statement, I
LB> only noted what liberals ARE, not what conservatives AREN'T), but
LB> given this, I think I will let my statement stand unrevised. There
LB> is no reason to force someone in need of help into a "beggars" role,
LB> of having to pay for their need with having to listen to how they are
LB> not only in physical scarcity, but have it assumed that they are in
LB> spiritual scarcity too. At least, don't make the ASSUMPTION that the
LB> two go hand in hand -- one can have physical needs and be a devout
LB> Jew, Muslim, Wiccan, Buddhist, etc, etc, etc, and it is not fair to
LB> assume that because their devotion does not act itself out
LB> identically to our own, that it is WRONG, and needs to be molded to
LB> fit ours in order to be "spiritually healthy".
Wouldn't an obvious act of unconditional caring serve as a Christian
outreach without cluttering it up with preaching? Was the Good Samaritan
ever criticized because he failed to yank the hook?
--- FleetStreet 1.15+
* Origin: Serenity Base - daveh@sbase.com (905) 987-3724 (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 229/622 438 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dave Hamilton
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Genocidal Prophet
|Date: 26 Apr 96 16:02:32
EID:cf08 209a8040
REPLY: 1:116/19 044E7A7E
MSGID: 1:229/622 3180f561
CHRS: IBMPC 2
In a message of Al Schroeder to J.J. Hitt:
AS>> Y'know, JJ, I ws on the Internet doing some research on
AS>> Hitler for obvious reasons, when I found this Web site that
AS>> had some of the paintings of Hitler. And they were
AS>> disturbing... Because they were't disturbing, if you know
AS>> what I mean.
JH>> I know exactly what you mean. I've seen prints.
AS> Exactly. Nice little watercolors.
May I add something? I, too have seen these prints, and they brought
back some extremely unpleasant memories for me. I had the misfortune
to be acquainted with a true psychopath who remained such until he
died. He was a loathsome, lonely, egocentric tyrant. He painted
quaint little watercolors similar to those painted by Hitler. Now,
I'm not sure if it was the watercolors or Hitler himself who reminded
me of this abominable person, but I knew him rather more well than
I would have wished, and I can assure you that in this person there
was no soft personal side. He fancied himself a great painter in league
with the great artists, and at every opportunity, invited comments
from those he dominated. He even left these mediocre creations to
his relatives in his will. It's not at all hard for me to imagine
Hitler fishing for compliments from those who he permitted within
his circle. It would have fit well within his psychological profile
as it is evidenced in other of his actions. Just a thought...
--- FleetStreet 1.15+
* Origin: Serenity Base - daveh@sbase.com (905) 987-3724 (1:229/622)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 229/622 438 2 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: asimov
|Date: 26 Apr 96 19:32:00
EID:9804 209a9c00
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 896C439C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Michael Hardy <=-
LB> Judith and Michael were killing time yakking about asimov:
MH> Secondly, archaeology is a science, but it is a far different science
MH> from biochemistry. A doctoral dissertation and a trashy novel are
MH> both writing, but that doesn't mean a person who is skilled at one
MH> could just as easily do the other.
LB> (jaw dropping) Are you trying to suggest that archaeology is the
LB> "trashy novelist" of science??
Oh for crying out loud! No, Lynda, I'm simply saying that two
disciplines bound by a common thread can still be quite different. That
a scientist may be a top-notch biochemist and still not know a whole
lot about archaeology.
Good grief.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: "please do"
|Date: 26 Apr 96 20:20:00
EID:ba3c 209aa280
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 896C439D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Michael Hardy <=-
EF> In a message dated 04-13-96 Al Schroeder wrote to ELLIOTT FINESSE:
EF> Other than that you may have a point. I'll have to think about
MH> Please do.
> >
>
EF> Spoken with all the graciousness and good will I have come to exp
EF> from one with god's love in their heart. Still thinking about it
EF> Mike. But don't worry, I would never expect the same from you.
>
AS> All he was asking you to do was "please do think about the
AS> point".
EF> Since *I* was the one who said he may have a point, and *I* was the
EF> one who said I would ponder the issue further, his terse retort
EF> amounted to a condescending and gratuitous dig.
MH> Not intentionally.
EF> He himself has said "I am beginning to think I must be far more
EF> obnoxious than [I] realize." And "Others have assured me that I am
EF> as guilty of smugness and arrogance as anyone I might accuse of it."
MH> Inadvertently.
LB> Hmmm. Michael -- how many times do you get to be told that when you
LB> do Action X, it provokes Reaction Y before you have to acknowledge that
LB> it is YOUR responsibility to make an intentional effort to avoid
LB> inadvertant offensiveness. Continuing to plead ignorance when you've
LB> ASKED what bugs people, and then blown off their responses, makes these
LB> claims ring decidely hollow.
And his inisistence to take offense, when I've explained to him three
times now that none was intended, leaves me feeling that I've done what
I can. My initial response was offered in all innocence, no sarcasm
intended. However, he inferred that there was some. Well and good, an
honest miscommunication. So I assured him that none was meant.
Well, he's refused to believe me. So what can I do? I meant no sarcasm.
I assured him I meant no sarcasm. Al Schroeder assured him I meant no
sarcasm. If he still insists that I did intend sarcasm, well, I'm at a
loss what to do about it.
What would YOU do if someone misinterpreted one of your posts, and then
refused to believe your repeated assurances that no offense was meant?
LB> Now, personally, I believe you -- you didn't mean to. But that isn't
LB> in any way meant to condone you in continuing to do so -- all it means
LB> is that you have developed blindness when it comes to how you affect
LB> others to a fine art.
LB> Open your eyes, Mike, before you you forget how.
Lynda, all I said to him was "Please do." He went ballistic over it. I
explained my intentions, and it didn't help. There comes a point in
some circumstances when I begin to feel that *I* am not really the one
with the problem. If my words gave unintentional offense, fine, I
explain and try to clear up the ambiguity. But if the explanation is
rejected -- several times -- what more can I do?
EF> So under the circumstances I have to wonder about how you can be so
EF> certain of his innocent intent. Likewise you seem a little quick to
EF> find me guilty of being awfully quick (I don't even remember having
a
EF> trial).
MH> That makes two of us.
LB> You're on trial now. You turned yourself in, remember?
I was not given a trial on this particular point. I was pronounced
guilty and the court would not hear my appeals. But I never even had a
chance to testify.
... On Dr. McCoy's tombstone: "I'm dead, Jim."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: the way
|Date: 26 Apr 96 20:17:00
EID:899d 209aa220
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 896C439E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Michael Hardy <=-
LB> Ok, now we know about your optimism level. And yet, Marilyn who WAS
LB> making a small move toward accepting him, but had the sheer gall to
LB> reject YOU was summarily dismissed with a flick of your feet to get
the
LB> dust off.
AND HAVE ADMITTED I WAS WRONG TO DO SO ABOUT TEN TIMES NOW!!! Lynda, I
have apologized to her for doing that, and I have admitted candidly to
you, to Al and to the echo at large that I was wrong.
Why do continue throwing it up in my face?
LB> Are you also less than optimistic about those who allow their
LB> personal pride to so completely overwhelm them that they participate
in
LB> killing off budding faith?
I give up. You are about as unforgiving as they come.
... Grace happens.
... until you get on Lynda's bad side.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Fried Rice
|Date: 26 Apr 96 20:24:00
EID:09ce 209aa300
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 896C439F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Jesse Jones to Fredric Rice <=-
FR>Jesse Christ Jones couldn't drink from that well. I had poisoned it
FR>before he could mouth his lie. If he had posted his rant on schedule
FR>he would have done _exactly_ what I said he was going to do so to
FR>prove me wrong in something (since he can't in real life) he tried to
FR>keep his mouth shut.
FR>'Didn't work. A fundy can be played like a puppet. You just learn
FR>which strings to pull and when to pull them and you can make them dig
FR>into their pockets and hand over their money or you can make them
FR>walk right off a cliff or drink grape cool-aid. You can also
FR>manipulate them into remaining silent -- just as I did.
JJ> You are truly a legend in your own mind.
A self-made man who worships his creator? :-)
... Be bold in what you stand for and careful who you fall for.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: LOSING THE LABELS (1/2)
|Date: 26 Apr 96 20:26:00
EID:741f 209aa340
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 896C43A0
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Al Schroeder <=-
AS> I must admit I don't have much respect for trollers.
MB> He admitted flat-out that he was trolling in a post to
MB> Lynda....
AS> Concerning Creationism, correct? Admitted.
LB>
LB> Not exactly, no. He admitted to someone here that he was trolling
LB> about Creationism, but that wasn't to me, as I am not involved in that
LB> discussion. He admitted to ME that he deliberately told Marilyn that
LB> there was "no point" in evolving to faith via liberal Christianity (to
LB> be precise, Spong) in order to be provocative, and that he did not
LB> really mean it. That's trolling.
I don't think I did. I was trolling in regard to creationism, but I
first closed the door on Marilyn's interest out of my own blindness to
its value, and I have freely admitted that -- many times now, and
directly to you more than once.
LB> He was looking for an argument, and
LB> ignoring and (as usual) discounting the possibility that she may have
LB> been serious in her exploration. His desire to be right superceded
his
LB> judgement, and his willingness to see the needs of someone else -- if
LB> it isn't a part of his own worldview, it just doesn't exist. He's said
LB> repeatedly that he just doesn't "see" how anyone can believe in God
and
LB> not believe everything he does ABOUT God.
No, Lynda, I have said NO SUCH THING. And I thought I had explained
that clearly in some of our private exchanges. Apparently I wasn't
clear enough.
LB> He says he wants to
LB> understand, but whenever and however it is explained to him, he tries
LB> to argue with the explanations -- he wants to "understand" only to have
LB> another weapon with which to formulate an argument "proving" he's
LB> right.
So when someone explains their opinion to me, I'm supposed to
say "Hey, you're right!" ???
LB> "Give to every other human being every right that you claim for
LB> yourself." -- the Ingersollian Golden Rule
Such as the right to understand your opinion, yet still disagree with
it?
... ....Unable to open Trouser.zip (a)bort (r)etry (p)ee
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Lynda Bustilloz
|Sub: yes
|Date: 27 Apr 96 00:15:45
EID:115e 209b01e0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 896C43A1
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Lynda Bustilloz to Marilyn Burge <=-
LB> No, I think it's exactly as it looks -- he's asking you why you thi
LB> he should think it any improvement that you should indicate an inte
LB> in Spong,
LB> rather than HIS Christianity. It most definitely IS a territorial
LB> dispute.
No, Lynda ... I was asking her why I should have immediately recognized
her interest as genuine when for months I had seen no sign of any.
Perhaps there were signs that I missed, but you have completely misread
the situation. Essentially I was asking her why she can't be
understanding enough of my initial reaction to allow me a second
chance.
MB> Lynda, I'm going to be completely candid here. I WAS truely
MB> investi- gating on my own behalf. I will admit, however, that I
LB> I've been aware of that for awhile. When I began to back off, you
LB> were a strong voice in favor of standing firm in my own beliefs and
LB> allowing the likes of Michael to set my opinion for me. It was wis
LB> advice. I offer it back to you -- DON'T GIVE HIM THE SATISFACTION
LB> LETTING HIM WIN.
What is it about me that sets both of you off like this? Neither of you
even KNOW me, for crying out loud. And it's certainly not like I'm the
only person who would disagree with you, not even the only one on this
echo. Reading Marilyn's posts about me in the last few packets, and
yours in this one, I think both of you need to get a grip on reality.
Lynda, I am just ONE PERSON, a person you don't even know except via
this forum. If I offend you so much, then write me off and ignore me. I
don't understand why you and she both have become so obsessed with me.
Why do you need my approval? Answer: You don't, and I don't understand
why it bothers you so much that I don't agree with you on some things.
I suppose it's pointless for me to say this, but I really have no
interest in "winning" anything. You seem to take every disagreement
personally, Lynda. You can't accept that I can disagree with your
ideas, discuss our differences civilly, and us be on friendly terms
despite disagreeing. Every time I say something that suggests I don't
agree with you about something, you launch into a tirade about how
single-minded and dogmatic and blind, etc., I am.
It's really beginning to feel like head games.
... Parking reserved for witches only. Violators will be toad.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: 2 A Hardy Sucker Punch
|Date: 27 Apr 96 11:40:00
EID:bc00 209b5d00
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 896C43A2
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Michael Hardy <=-
> EF> Now to be fair I will add that your willingness to reflect and yo
> EF> candor in admitting things that may not be to your ideological
> EF> advantage are (at least potentially) strong mitigating factors a
> EF> the points I raised above.
>
> OK.
EF> "OK!??!"
EF> Such an endearing way to accept a complement! "OK." I'm so proud you
EF> have condescended to acknowledge my accuracy in identifying your
EF> positive character attributes! I will treasure your "OK" always.
EF> However, recent events force me to retract the above. I hope you
EF> understand. Like a fool I assumed sincerity when it was not justified.
EF> I am sincere, and so tend to assume others are too. Forgive my
EF> mistaken and foolish analysis. It was clearly wrong.
EF> Now I suppose you are going to hurt my feelings by retracting your
EF> gracious "OK" response. Ah well. Life is cruel, ::sigh::
AS> Has everybody FLIPPED on this echo? I feel like I'm trying to
AS> placate a NUMBER of prima donnas. Even Elliot, who I thought was
AS> fairly reasonable, has twice slapped you down for innoculous
AS> responses. I'm afraid to say "Yes" or "No" to him now.
AS> Remember when we didn't have to worry about people's egoes? Where
AS> we said, "Sorry, the sweetness and light echo is down the hall?". I
AS> don't like being needlessly cruel (in Hector's case, I indulged a
AS> little, but only in response. He could handle it) but I DID think we
AS> were among ADULTS who wouldn't flare at every little statement. Where
AS> we didn't walk on eggshells.
I think several people have flipped. And I don't have any idea why.
Even more perplexing is that I seem to the be the touchstone for at
least three of them. That I understand even less.
With Elliott, though, it seems apparent that he has a great deal of
anger at other people, and I -- being just words on a screen to him --
am a convenient scapegoat on whom to vent his rage. After some
reflection, I've decided that that's OK with me. If it helps him deal
with his anger to have someone to vent it on, then I don't mind letting
him do so.
OTOH, if he really *is* this bent out of shape just because I said
"OK," that's another matter ... :-)
... The more I chew on, the less I swallow.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Aaron Boyden
|Sub: Free Will
|Date: 27 Apr 96 11:43:00
EID:aa34 209b5d60
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 896C43A3
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Aaron Boyden to Michael Hardy <=-
> Which is why free will is possible in a real sense
> only if God does not
> manipulate circumstances at all. The reality may well
> fall somewhere in
> between the two views -- perhaps God manipulates
> circumstances in some
> cases for specific reasons, and lets the chips fall
> where they may in
> others, resulting in a compromise. I don't know.
AB> But how can God not manipulate circumstances? He created all of them,
AB> didn't He? Did he roll dice to decide which circumstances to bring
AB> about?
AB> To forestall irrelevant sidetracks, look at those questions this way.
AB> At the very least, an omniscient God must have known absolutely all
of
AB> the circumstances prior to the very first free choice ever made. I
AB> hope you'll grant that. It would seem that God produced all those
AB> circumstances. With no prior meddling by free agents, I don't see how
AB> you can get around that either. Now, your account of free will had
AB> better explain how freedom could come into that scenario, or I maintain
AB> that it doesn't ultimately explain anything.
It all has to do with God being eternal. Was it you or someone else who
pronounced that irrelevant? I don't recall. Anyhow, if God is not bound
by time, then all time is "now" from God's perspective. I don't see how
God's knowing what choices we will make -- future from our perspective,
not his -- negates our freedom in making them. If he knows them only
because he observes us making them, they are still free.
> AB> Now, if a free choice is one which doesn't involve any causes, please
> AB> explain how it could be viewed as an action _of the agent_. If the
> AB> agent doesn't cause it, what has the action got to do with her, and,
> AB> notably, how can she be responsible for it?
> I don't argue that it involves no causes. The agent
> is the proximate
> cause. But what causes the agent to act as he does?
AB> That is the very question. Is it just something random? Then it
AB> doesn't seem like responsibility properly belongs to the agent; it was
AB> merely good or bad luck. Is it caused by prior circumstances (my
AB> preference)? But then it would seem that we don't have the kind of
AB> freedom that you want. But what's the third alternative? Do like
AB> Schopenhauer and stick a character behind the agent as the cause of
the
AB> agent's actions? I'm sure you can see the bankruptcy of that approach.
AB> What other options are there?
I think that our choices are influenced by many external factors, but
they are ultimately our choices. The prior circumstances don't *cause*
our choices, but they do make some of them more likely than others.
Many of those external circumstances are caused *by* the choices of
others, though. The children who grow up in broken home do so
because of choices their parents made. For free will to be real, its
consequences must be real. The fact that my choices are influenced by
the choices of others is a confirmation that free will is just that --
else, their freedom would have to be curtailed to ensure mine.
... German word for brassiere: Stoppemfrumfloppin.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: judges
|Date: 27 Apr 96 00:12:00
EID:699b 209b0180
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 896C43A4
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Al Schroeder to Marilyn Burge <=-
AS> Cart before the horse. I don't HAVE to believe in anything.
AS> Many here do not. Nor, as Spong has shown, do I have to
AS> believe in a literal Resurrection or the virginity of Mary,
AS> to call myself a Christian. Don't presuppose what I HAVE to
AS> do. Instead look at the arguments I have.
MB> I disagree. You have to in order to have peace with yourself.
AS> Hmmm. Well, I don't know what to say, Marilyn. Since I am the person
AS> being discussed and I know myself better than anybody, I think my
AS> opinion has more validity.
Recall Elliott insisting I could not possibly have meant "Please do" as
anything but condescension? Apparently, Marilyn and Elliott know us
better than we know ourselves. :-)
... "A person is a person, no matter how small." -- Dr. Seuss
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: John Passaniti
|Sub: WHAT IS A CHRISTIAN?
|Date: 27 Apr 96 11:44:00
EID:a059 209b5d80
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 896C43A5
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting John Passaniti to Ralph Jansen <=-
> Well, it isn't a flaw, and it is not a Biblical problem.
> Homosexuality is incompatible with Christianity, if one
> continues to be a homosexual. They cannot be mixed.
> Christianity replaces homosexuality, and both cannot exist
> in a Christian. If one understands what it means to be a
> homosexual before God, and repents of it, that is
> different.
JP> Yes, and as I pointed out before, you are reflecting the views of
JP> one of the 3000 denominations of Christianity in the world. Other
JP> Christian denominations have different views.
JP> None of this matters to *me* since I reject all of it in any
JP> case. But I do enjoy pointing out that Christianity is not a singular
JP> monolithic entity with a singular perspective. It always causes those
JP> who proclaim their particular interpretation of Christian theology is
JP> correct to squirm around in their chairs. And the best part? When
you
JP> stated that Christianity and homosexuality are incompatible, it will
JP> invariably cause some Christian in the conference who doesn't share
JP> that view to debate the issue for you. This always provides great
JP> amusement to me each of you saying your 1/3000th of Christianity is
JP> correct, and the others are "false Christian scum" or other quaint
JP> epithet.
JP> Let the games begin!
But why do you find it so funny that there are some disagreements? I
take that as a sign that believers retain their ability to think for
themselves, contrary to the assertions some unbelievers make.
The Christian faith is *not* monolithic, and I really doubt that many
Christians think that it is, or even that it should be. There are some
central issues which define what Christianity is at its core, and I
don't think those should be on bargaining table. But there are many,
many less central issues which are perfectly fair game for debate.
All moral issues fall into that category, because religion and morality
are not the same thing. Is homosexuality, to use the issue at hand,
really incompatible with Christianity? I think it is, but I am not
offended or troubled that other Christians think it is not. It is an
issue on which Christians of good conscience can disagree.
Now, you're right that some Christians are not so willing to negotiate
on such matters. It troubles me that some of my brethren (and sistren
) become dogmatic on such matters. All I can do, though, is offer my
opinion and let them change their mind or not, as they choose.
As far as I'm concerned, a Christian is anyone who strives to obey
what Jesus says are the two greatest commandments: "Love the Lord your
God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your
neighbor as yourself." As I heard it put recently, love God and do what
you please -- because if you love God, what you please will be what
pleases God.
So, many issues are open to debate. I have my opinions, some of which I
hold very strongly and some of which I'm more flexible on, but I don't
make agreement with my opinions into some kind of litmus test.
(Contrary to what Lynda Bustilloz thinks of me.)
I suppose this doesn't really address your point, because you're right
that some Christians are far more dogmatic than I am on these matters.
I just wanted to make it clear that there are some of us who are not so
rigid.
... This score just in: Deep Space 9, Babylon 5.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Wally Jabbusch
|Sub: Omniflatulence
|Date: 27 Apr 96 11:29:00
EID:65f0 209b5ba0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 896C43A6
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Wally Jabbusch to Elliott Finesse <=-
EF> "The danger of leaving God to the 11th hour is you might die at
EF> 10:30."
WJ> Heart felt Christian love, HUH?:)
Since this was my tagline, I want to know what you find objectionable
about it. It simply makes the observation that people who put off
questions about God until some nebulous "later" can find that "later"
never comes, so artful is their procrastination. It's meant only as a
subtle encouragement to not put the questions off.
What's your problem with that?
BTW, it's not aimed at people who are seeking, nor is it aimed at
people who believe they have sought and not found, only at those who
haven't considered the matter yet. And it's just the tagline that my
random tagline function tagged onto this post.
EF> Has "don't do as I do, do as I say" now become your personal mantra?
WJ> Yes cause they are perfect in their own eyes and now look for sin in
WJ> others.
Elliot's criticism was aimed at me, so I must assume your response is
too. No, I don't think of myself as perfect at all. I'm quite aware of
many of my personal failings, and I'm sure I have some that I'm not
aware of.
... I'm not an actor, but I play one on TV.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: APOLOGY
|Date: 27 Apr 96 12:07:00
EID:3c02 209b60e0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 896C43A7
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Don Martin to Al Schroeder <=-
MH> Well heck. Lynda won't let me apologize, you won't let me apologize.
MH> Now I've got this perfectly good apology all ready to go, and nobody
MH> will take it! :)
AS> Try Marilyn. Of course, she won't READ it, but she wants one
AS> anyway...
DM> Personally, I find that a contemptible statement to make about
DM> Marilyn, particularly to such a thing as Michael (Well, I've finally
DM> come up with an apology devious enough that I am not really
DM> admitting any guilt by uttering it and now it really pisses me off
DM> that nobody gives a shit) Hardy. But he is your co-religionist and
DM> she is not, so it does not surprise me any more than does the
DM> inactivity of the gods themselves.
AS> admitting the obvious. If Michael wants to apologize to Marilyn for
AS> certain past statements, I think it would be a good thing. But
AS> Marilyn has, of her own volition, closed that door.
DM> I am sufficiently cognizant of the reflection upon
DM> Marilyn's character and the patronizing tone of:
AS> Try Marilyn. Of course, she won't READ it, but she wants one
AS> anyway...
DM> to despise it. What you would hate to think is your concern.
But Don, it's a fact. Indeed, I have offered Marilyn an apology -- a
sincere one -- but I had to get Lynda Bustilloz to forward it to her
because she has me twitted.
Now, what is despicable about Al's statement of facts? Marilyn has me
twitted. Anything I post directly to her will go unread. She has said
as much.
How is Al wrong to note that?
... Nothing is foolproof for a sufficiently talented fool.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: All
|Sub: thermodynamics
|Date: 27 Apr 96 12:55:00
EID:8051 209b66e0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 896C43A8
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
Got a question for all you science types ...
Creationists say that the Second Law of Thermodynamics makes
evolution impossible.
Evolutionists say that law applies only to closed systems, and Earth
receives energy from the sun.
Question: How can a continual input of raw thermal energy contribute
to increasing order and complexity of lifeforms? Is the contention
simply that the energy allows the system to continue operating,
allowing enough time for random mutation to occur? Or is the input
thought to have some direct role in evolution?
... A Mexican won the lottery. It was a million to Juan.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Re: More Bible Errors
|Date: 27 Apr 96 17:05:00
EID:11b9 209b88a0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 896C43A9
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Michael Hardy <=-
-> On 04-23-96 21:04, Michael Hardy got back to Dan Ceppa
MH> error, and then revealing that you know that's really not so, that the
MH> Biblical language is ambiguous enough that it could well be correct.
DC> That's the point, Mikey. You have a bible that was never written
DC> in a cognitive manner in the first place.
MH> Keep digging, Dan. Now the "glaring error" has simply become a
MH> minor quirk of the language the book was written in.
DC>
DC> See the other posts on this, Mikey. It seems that the number of
DC> cities and how they are "interpretted" varies by the translation.
Amazing, Holmes! You have deduced what we've been talking about for
*days* now!
... Clip-clop..clip-clop....Clip-clop... (Amish drive-by shunning)
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
N-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Re: Adolph Hitler Was a C
|Date: 27 Apr 96 17:06:00
EID:95cb 209b88c0
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 896C43AA
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> absence of the Apocrypha, there are not.
DC> There is still enough differences for groups to denounce one version
DC> and uphold another, in not just in the particular addition or
DC> deletions of various books. Those "minor" differences go right
DC> to the core of particular sects beliefs.
MH> Examples?
DC> Do you believe in the Book of Mormon?
ROFL! The Book of Mormon is NOT a version of the Bible, Danny.
Try again.
... Parking reserved for witches only. Violators will be toad.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: asimov
|Date: 27 Apr 96 17:32:00
EID:336c 209b8c00
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 896C43AB
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> Reinvigorating biblical archaeology also requires faith because
MH> ^^^^^
DC> The key word, Mikey. Scientific study is not based on faith. It
DC> is based on evidence. It is the lack thereof that has led to the
DC> decline in Biblical Archaeology chairs.
Dishonest quoting, Dan. The editorial went on to explain what it meant,
which turns out to be very different from what you imply. To repeat:
"Reinvigorating biblical archaeology also requires faith because
archaeological field work is expensive, requiring much money and many
willing workers."
In other words, you have to be willing to spend the money and time
without any guarantee that you'll get anything out of it.
... Very funny Scotty. Now beam up my clothes.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: spong and me
|Date: 27 Apr 96 17:12:00
EID:1c5e 209b8980
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 896C43AC
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Dan Ceppa to Michael Hardy <=-
MH> There is a personal element involved too. When I was in my skeptical
MH> phase, I tried to discuss some of my questions about Christianity
MH> with a minister whose views were similar to Spong's. I think he did
me
MH> more harm than good. Perhaps I respond more strongly to Spong -- and
MH> to people taking a liking to Spong -- because I remember how that
MH> minister left me with more questions than ever, and how long it took
MH> me to find good answers to them.
DC> IOW, Mikey, you want simple answers to complex questions and you
DC> want them handed to you on a platter with no work on your part.
Amazing! You, who have never laid eyes on me and live thousands of
miles away, can go back in time 15 years and tell me what I was
thinking.
I would be really impressed if you weren't ao utterly wrong. :-)
... Sufficiently indignant tagline not on file. Flip a bird? (Y/N)
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Michael Hardy
|To: Elliott Finesse
|Sub: Probably Pointless
|Date: 27 Apr 96 17:33:00
EID:e001 209b8c20
MSGID: 1:3625/470.0 896C43AD
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11 93-0963
-=> Quoting Elliott Finesse to Al Schroeder <=-
EF> Hey, whatever bakes his cake. I think far too much time is spent
EF> discussing him and his foibles. I'm sure he reads it all in a
EF> breathless fascination over this, his favorite topic.
Actually, no. I am very uncomfortable with it. I never wanted to be a
topic of coversation. I *do* want to understand why I provoke such
strong reactions from some people, reactions that seem out of all
proportion to the perceived offense. I suppose you don't think that
desire is sincere, but it is. However, I don't like being talked about,
and I especially don't like having my motives and character questioned
and dissected by people who have far too little information to do so.
... To laugh well is to live well.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
* Origin: Di's Online Cafe - Mobile, AL (334) 661-8945 (1:3625/470.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 3625/470 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Christopher Baker
|Sub: IT'S A LONG WAY [WAS:
|Date: 27 Apr 96 05:39:00
EID:5f91 209b2ce0
-=> Quoting Christopher Baker to Judith Bandsma <=-
CB> that's the state that keeps re-electing Strom Thurmond, is it not?
Yep. And he's running again...says 93 isn't 'old'. My 92 year old grandfather
says he's full of shit.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/19 200 803 911 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 372/911 200 270/101 218/801
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Ken Davis
|Sub: OUR DAILY ASTONISHMENT
|Date: 27 Apr 96 12:34:00
EID:9bf2 209b6440
-=> Quoting Ken Davis to Mimi Milstein <=-
KD> Hi. Actually, it would if it could be proven that Jesus and family
KD> were definately the remains found in the tomb. That would be hard to
DNA testing should be able to prove it quite handily. If Jesus was the
'son of god' then there should only be one half the chromosomes necessary
for normal human development...Mary's.
If a full set was present, then there should be some genes that doesn't
even
come anywhere close to ANYTHING already in the human genome project.
Except, of course, for the fact that if it's a real body and fully human,
it can't possibly be Jesus, can it?
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/19 200 803 911 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 372/911 200 270/101 218/801
|From: Judith Bandsma
|To: Sally Springett
|Sub: WHATEVER
|Date: 27 Apr 96 12:21:00
EID:8732 209b62a0
-=> Quoting Sally Springett to Judith Bandsma <=-
SS> You're too quick to panic. The Family History Centers are run by
SS> volunteers, most of whom are hobbiests not Mormons. I have been
Difference in place, I guess. Here the Mormons keep a tight control on
everything.
About 20 years ago, a woman in one of the downtown homes (in an area called
'south of Broad St.', ritzy neighborhood) had a problem with bees. The hive
in her attic got so big that honey was seeping through her ceiling. The
only ones with the knowledge to move the hive were the Mormons. She STILL
can't get them to stop coming by.
... Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest innocent bystander.
--- FLAME v1.1
* Origin: Chas Co Sheriff's Ofc wants *YOU*! Call 803-554-2498 (1:372/911)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/19 200 803 911 379/10 380/25 387/31
SEEN-BY: 396/1 406/100 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001
SEEN-BY: 2613/5 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240
SEEN-BY: 3615/7 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 372/911 200 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: HIV is 'Harmless' and does NOT 'cause' AIDS
|Date: 27 Apr 96 10:49:58
EID:9113 209b5620
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 65fd499b
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 65efc148
On Apr 26 10:11 96, Martin Goldberg of 1:124/9005.221 wrote:
TL>>> -Virology is a "secret" field open only to insiders, no
TL>>> one else has the right to question it. Virologists wield
TL>>> much influence in the medical field.
MG> This is so much nonsense. From the initials, I don't know
MG> which cretis it is, but one hopes that he has some evidence
MG> to back this up rather than a few baseless claims.
You didn't see the original? It was one of Terry Liberty-Parker's
crossposted-to-every-echo-that-will-tolerate-me canned messages.
It was in something like six parts.
He(?) was not the author, however. The article does name the author
but gives no credentials or any idea why they should be taken as an
authorative source on the issue. No information on the author's
background is given at all.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Sally Springett
|Sub: Life in the fast lane.
|Date: 27 Apr 96 17:32:58
EID:c0f0 209b8c00
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6600f164
REPLY: 1:2613/313@ 28b7bf8e
On Apr 26 15:01 96, Sally Springett of 1:2613/313@ wrote:
DM>> He was later (and older) on another show for Mutual of Omaha,
DM>> in which he was forever talking to the camera from a position
DM>> of safety while his faithful assistant roused the buffalo,
DM>> found the hornet's nest, or whatever.
SS> No fool he. He got paid the big bucks and used someone else
SS> to do the dirty work. By the time he got to this point,
SS> however, he was well over 50 and had been doing his own
SS> dirty work for years. Surely he was entitled to relax a bit.
SS> After Perkins died the someone else (whose name I don't
SS> remember) got to sit back and watch. And so it goes.
Jim.
The "other guy" was named Jim.
He used to have a last name but a crocagator bit it off.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: FALSE PROPHETS
|Date: 27 Apr 96 17:43:56
EID:644e 209b8d60
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 66012ccf
REPLY: 1:116/19 0325E466
On Apr 25 09:02 96, Al Schroeder of 1:116/19 wrote:
AS> Still, your knowledge of UFO nuts is impressive. I've never
AS> ventured into I_UFO, and even a more rational one seemed
AS> pretty bizarre.
You've got to watch those "more rational" echos (UFO and BAMA).
In I_UFO I at least know what I am dealing with the severely
unhinged. Things are not so black and white on those other echos.
Don Allen (moderator of UFO) is an excelent case in point: at least
95 percent of the time he could almost pass as a skeptic. He may
stay in that mode for weeks... and then out of the blue will come
the messages about how the Clintons are Satanists and how Janet Reno
wants to stick an alien implant up your butt.
AS> ... May the Illuminati illuminate your eyes.
Illuminati paranoia was imported to the US on May 9th, 1789
from the pulpit of a prominent American pastor. He also had
a son who is most famous for one of his inventions.
Can you name the invention? Father? Son?
(And I hope Sue doesn't jump all over me if one or both of them
were actually Canadians. Yes, that's a hint, folks...)
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Heavenly Father
|Date: 27 Apr 96 23:19:20
EID:9251 209bba60
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 66041fba
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 317f3450
On Apr 25 04:14 96, Richard Smith of 1:203/9046 wrote:
RS> Maybe we can arrange a trade. I'll make sure I have the
RS> Tao before I commit, and if you just drop me a note at my
RS> e-mail address so I can give you a snail address, we can
RS> swap disks. That would work out for me. Between then and
RS> now I'll find out if I do indeed have the Tao (I'm almost
RS> positive.).
Go ahead and wait two weeks (I'm about to take an electronic
powder).
We'll hash out the details then.
(I'm afraid I can't send anything to your e-mail address. I'm
much too cheap to pay for internet access.)
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Re: Poor Little White Bo
|Date: 27 Apr 96 23:23:06
EID:e97b 209bbae0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 660422ae
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 317f4670
On Apr 25 05:31 96, Richard Smith of 1:203/9046 wrote:
JG>> We are talking about how women have a government organization
JG>> set up to fight men who now are threatened with not getting
JG>> free legal aid in divorce and custody cases. Equal rights ? Or
JG>> unfair womens rights?
JH>> And just what is the name of this "government organization" ?
RS> I think it's a secret. Shhhhh.... };)
And it's secretlly controled by the you-know-whos...
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Life in the fast lane.
|Date: 27 Apr 96 23:25:12
EID:281f 209bbb20
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 660429a0
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 317f46ea
On Apr 25 05:33 96, Richard Smith of 1:203/9046 wrote:
JH>> Euel was cool (cuel?). Before he settled down and became a
JH>> writer, he traveled around as a drifter and his survival
JH>> lore is all from first hand experience. It's unfortunate
JH>> that the Grape Nuts commercials portrayed him as some sort
JH>> of freak.
RS> I liked him too, but he was odd. He was apparently a
RS> hypochondriac, and used to take between 300-400 aspirins a
RS> day, according to what I've seen written. I've even been
RS> told it contributed to his death . . . his blood was too
RS> thin . . .
That doesn't sound right. As few as 25 asprins can cause liver
failure (an agonizingly slow way to die).
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Don Martin
|Sub: Our Deadly Doctrine
|Date: 27 Apr 96 23:47:38
EID:871d 209bbde0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 660471f6
REPLY: 1:261/1000.0 3181001f
On Apr 26 12:14 96, Don Martin of 1:261/1000 wrote:
JH>> What always tickles me is that many of them add a wheel to
JH>> the base of the cross to make it easier to drag along.
DM> Hey, if this sort of thing catches on, just wait for the custom
DM> wheel shops to open up. Underslung bicycle wheels, wide-bodied
DM> aircraft wheels, wheels with racing stripes, wheels with flames
DM> painted on their cowlings, fiberglass disk racing wheels--all
DM> kinds. We'll have expositions and meets, at which various Jesus
DM> wannabees show off their slick crosses and race them up hills. A
DM> smart promoter could make millions!
And it will eventually lead to Honest Saint John's Used Cross Lot:
"And this lil' turbocharged baby is a real cream-puff. Belonged to
a little old lady from Waco who never drove the thing except on
Easter when she would enter it in the Mount Moriah 500. And note
the paint job. Yessiree, it's real human blood. And check out these
nails, gen-u-ine custom machined titanium. Plus, they've got a 5
mil coating of Teflon (cuts down on those pesky infections, don't
ya know)...."
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Our Deadly Doctrine
|Date: 27 Apr 96 23:58:06
EID:8830 209bbf40
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 66047e1e
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 317f4764
On Apr 25 05:35 96, Richard Smith of 1:203/9046 wrote:
JH>> What always tickles me is that many of them add a wheel to
JH>> the base of the cross to make it easier to drag along.
RS> I wonder if they ever ride the wheels down the hills?
RS> Wouldn't THAT be a hoot, to be on the interstate and some
RS> bearded guy wrapped around a huge cross passes you going
RS> down the hill? I think Great America needs a new ride!
I dunno... I've always thought of Oat Willie as a sort of
Christ figure anyway. (At least as close to a Christ figure
as Gilbert Shelton ever got.)
I mean is a cross with one wheel all that different from
a washtub with two bicycle wheels?
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: BRANHAM
|Date: 28 Apr 96 00:27:12
EID:e694 209c0360
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6604c1e1
REPLY: 1:116/19 04DCFFC4
On Apr 23 02:05 96, Al Schroeder of 1:116/19 wrote:
AS> AFter all, America was discovered in 1492. But how much really
AS> HAPPENED here in colonization until 1600 or so?
A great deal besides colonization did happen here in the 16th
century. Both Mexico and Peru fell bloodily to the Spainiards.
Only 5 PERCENT of the native Mexican population survived.
No, not much in the way of colonization, but the years from
1500 to 1600 were hardly a ho-hum period in the Americas.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Question
|Date: 28 Apr 96 00:59:22
EID:4d10 209c0760
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 66050561
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 317f1928
On Apr 25 02:18 96, Richard Smith of 1:203/9046 wrote:
AS>> I suspect Adam and Eve would have duties later on, when
AS>> they had grown more into the role.
RS> << hats, enforcing park rules . . . };) . . . >>>
"Adam and Eve aren't going to like this, Yogi..."
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Richard Smith
|Sub: Waco rememberance
|Date: 28 Apr 96 01:01:22
EID:d1a1 209c0820
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 66050e18
REPLY: 1:203/9046.0 317f20b2
On Apr 25 02:50 96, Richard Smith of 1:203/9046 wrote:
RS> BTW, in case anyone is wondering what I'm talking about,
RS> Terry did a limited cross post of that Anti-AIDS article
RS> here, one segment of it that was damaged, and nothing more.
Odd... I got the complete thing (six parts).
And Mratin Glodberg (in Dallas) didn't seem to have
seen any of it. (But then, he may have TLP twitted.)
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Preston Simpson
|Sub: OUR DAILY ALIEN
|Date: 28 Apr 96 01:12:24
EID:7289 209c0980
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 66053710
REPLY: 1:123/318.0 3181ac3c
On Apr 27 01:10 96, Preston Simpson of 1:123/318 wrote:
AS>> They say the same thing about medieval man's conceptions
AS>> about elves. Saucers from Faerae, anyone? Maybe Oberon had
AS>> a scientific revolution TOO, under Elf-Hill...
PS> Possibly. In that line, I can see LGMs (bad English, I
PS> know) as being the 20th century versions of elves.
That's another thing that gets me about UFO-lore: the way
some figures completely drop from the pantheon.
No one has seen a Little Green Man in a couple decades.
They've all been surplanted by the Greys.
But UFO-dom is nothing if not trendy. An excelent example of
this is the coining of the phrase "flying saucer". The pilot
who first used the phrase was describing the MOTION of the
objects he saw, NOT THEIR SHAPE (they were triangular). However,
the popular press latched onto the phrase and didn't bother to
include it's original context. Almost overnight people around
the country were seeing saucer SHAPED objects. And it still
remains the geometry of choice for objects reported today.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Preston Simpson
|Sub: OUR DAILY ALIEN
|Date: 28 Apr 96 01:22:08
EID:7289 209c0ac0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 66058de6
REPLY: 1:123/318.0 3181ac3c
On Apr 27 01:10 96, Preston Simpson of 1:123/318 wrote:
PS> Possibly. In that line, I can see LGMs (bad English, I
PS> know) as being the 20th century versions of elves.
Actually I think that the Little Green Men were more
gnome-like than they were elves.
I halfway suspect they were (at least in part) a
characterization of the influx of Jewish (prior
to WWII) and German (after the war) scientists that
came to this country in the middle of this century.
(Ever notice how the archetypical "Mad Scientist" always
has an accent?)
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Ralph Jansen
|Sub: Omni-impotence
|Date: 28 Apr 96 02:03:56
EID:8520 209c1060
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 66059ed3
REPLY: 1:398/1.0 317bd5d0
On Apr 22 14:54 96, Ralph Jansen of 1:398/1 wrote:
RJ> Yeah, and what would those be. Let's see:
RJ>
RJ> 1. You are human...(darn, that doesn't do it)
RJ> 2. You make mistakes...(darn, that doesn't do it either)
RJ> 3. You are trapped in time...(darn, that doesn't do it either)
RJ> 4. You can't be everywhere at once...(darn, that
RJ> doesn't do it either)
RJ> 5. You can't turn water to wine.............
RJ>
RJ> Hmmm, seems that your credentials are a little short...
In that case Grapes and Yeast are both gods.
Or at least half-gods apeice.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: George Ambler
|Sub: why
|Date: 28 Apr 96 02:53:48
EID:41fc 209c16a0
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 6606111f
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 317f4479
On Apr 24 11:31 96, George Ambler of 5:7107/9 wrote:
GA> Yes, I fully agree with you, after all what is LIFE without
GA> Jesus ?
What's a lawnmower without frilly underware?
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: J.J. Hitt
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Our Daily Spam
|Date: 28 Apr 96 02:59:38
EID:62f2 209c1760
MSGID: 1:106/9788.2 660631d7
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 4380ebc1
On Apr 24 11:53 96, Katherine Wintersnight of 1:381/123@fidonet.org wrote:
KW> I've never managed to wade through it myself--some how
KW> after a few paragraphs of Crowley I find my eyes crossing. I
KW> found MWT, and couple of his other books on a local BBS, and
KW> downloaded them, meaning to read them someday. Alas, after a
KW> bit of quick skimming, I'm surely afraid that someday will never
KW> come. Some of his poetry is readable, but that's about it.
If you can get ahold of a copy of the complete run of the Equinox
(it's two volumes in hardcover and I've seen it for about 60 or 70
bucks), you'll have just about everything Crowley had to say.
All his "books" are largely re-compilations of what he originally
published in the Equinox. Crowley, like many writers, managed to
sell the same material over and over with only minor repackageing.
Crowley's poetry... um... he's a little too fond of rhyming couplets
for me to stomach more than a page of it at a time. On the other
hand some of his more "experimental" (free verse) stuff is pretty
moving, but he turned out a whole hell of a lot of crap too.
Hostes alienigeni me abduxerunt.
--- Msgedsq 2.2e
* Origin: Saint Elmo's Fire Hydrant (Houston) (1:106/9788.2)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 106/9788 888 2000 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Don Martin
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Science vs. Faith
|Date: 27 Apr 96 12:33:43
EID:9709 209b6420
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 31826ddc
REPLY: 1:246/15.0 317f748f
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Sue Armstrong said "Science vs. Faith" to J.J. Hitt, adding:
JG>> Do you have any more to add?
RB> Tidy Bowl man............skeleton made of porcelain
JH> Good Humor man skeleton made from popcicle sticks.
JH> Peeking man Primordial vouyer.
JH> Java man Earliest known coffee drinker.
JH> LaBrea man lived in pits.
JH> Egg man Walrus, probably afflicted with
JH> juju eyeball.
SA> Bread man Actually female. Suffered from
SA> yeast infection.
SA> Tally man Tallied me bananas.
SA> Culligan man Drowned in hard water.
SA> Wolf man Ape-like and very hirsute.
SA> Snow man Cold-blooded.
SA> Sailor man Pop-eyed.
Walk Man Death by concussion to covered earholes
Maytagrepair Man Death by lonliness and boredom
Right-hand Man Dexterous but visible target
Volgaboat Man Barged into the wrong place
Peeweeher Man Life eluded his grasp
Woodyher Man One of an extinct band
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Don Martin
|To: Sean McCullough
|Sub: Genocidal Prophet
|Date: 27 Apr 96 12:57:07
EID:bf89 209b6720
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 31826ddd
REPLY: 1:128/203.666@fidonet.org 3996d3cc
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Sean McCullough said "Genocidal Prophet" to Don Martin, adding:
> DM> It's like Bryll Cream (which some here may be old enough
> DM> to remember): a little dab'll do ya . . .
> MG> ...the girls'll love to run their fingers through your hair."
> MG> I mean, who uses greasy kid's stuff anymore?
> For my part, there is too little to bother greasing.
SM> Ah! One of my fellow "Turtle Wax" Club members!!!!
Should I ever go "punk", I could have a racing stripe painted on
for my weird hairdo.
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Don Martin
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: test
|Date: 27 Apr 96 13:16:05
EID:e21e 209b6a00
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 31826dde
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 65ed8edf
PID: BWPRO 3.06 [Eval]
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
Martin Goldberg said "test" to Don Martin, adding:
MG>> Did you order a large sausage....
DM> Kosher, yet.
MG> Just another impossible thing at breakfast.
At my age, it is sometimes more possible at breakfast that at
othber times . . .
... Through a Jaundiced Eye Darkly--Rheum With a View
(don@balt-rehab.med.va.gov)
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: Xtians are uncomplicated beings: pure and simpleton. (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Steve Rose
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: MY BOOK
|Date: 27 Apr 96 22:04:18
EID:5956 209bb080
MSGID: 1:109/601.0 182a1013
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 ec84c546
CHRS: IBMPC 2
TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7545
JB> HALLELUJAH!
JB> I hereby break my silence.
Does this mean we will once again be echo-bombarded with those genuine non-sensical,
ponderous Brawley Meta-Universe postings of yours, again? Good!
I was starting to go through fundy-fanatic withdrawal.
--- IM2.29+/FE1.45a+/PB2.12+
* Origin: * Above Board * (1:109/601)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 109/601 104 17 13/25 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Stuart Lumgair
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: CONSTITUTION OF FSU
|Date: 28 Apr 96 02:26:10
EID:0f22 209c1340
MSGID: 1:153/556.0 1833ce30
Judith Bandsma wrote in a message to Stuart Lumgair:
JB> Worked out pretty good, considering.... Will get a message
JB> off to you internet.
Haven't seen it yet .... try slumgair@robson.jumppoint.com
Stuart
--- timEd-B9
* Origin: Lost Cause BBS (604) 854-1869 (1:153/556)
SEEN-BY: 1/201 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/151 528 529
SEEN-BY: 153/550 553 556 716 751 752 800 813 920 923 970 157/586 167/1103
SEEN-BY: 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99 234/100
SEEN-BY: 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211 272/82
SEEN-BY: 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 153/556 528 970 752 716 920 270/101 218/801
|From: Stuart Lumgair
|To: Michael Hardy
|Sub: Pascal's Wager
|Date: 28 Apr 96 02:27:14
EID:f478 209c1360
MSGID: 1:153/556.0 1833ce31
REPLY: 1:3625/470.0 89594392
Michael Hardy wrote in a message to Stuart Lumgair:
SL> Hmmmm, and to which religious group did he belong
SL> to while he was coming to these conclusions ? I have
SL> studied more than a few religions, and would love to
SL> see how he figured that only the j-d-i idea was
SL> workable.
MH> Find Pensees in your library or bookstore and read it,
MH> then.
I did it one step better and did the comparative
study of religions myself. Seems that my conclusions
were quite different from his. I was looking for
something that wasn't there. I guess he managed to
find something that wasn't there.
SL> They all rely upon the believer to be just
SL> that. Like a science fiction novel, they demand that
SL> the user suspend disbelief. Did he ever try to argue
SL> that any of the others might be true, or only show
SL> why they could not be ? Using two sets of rules, one
SL> for what you want, and another for that which you
SL> do not want would seem to be a real possibility here.
MH> Decide for yourself.
I have, and for me to have decided any differently
would have been to be intellectually dishonest with
myself, due to some kind of wishful thinking.
SL> But, do you really think that those who are using
SL> Pascal's wager have gone through the entire process
SL> themselves ? Or are they merely repeating something
SL> which they have heard, but never thought deeply about
SL> themselves ?
MH> I suspect most of them trot it out without much thought.
MH> And my criticism is leveled primarily at them for doing so.
I tend to agree with you on that. Most people would
rather avoid thinking at anything but a surface level.
I sometimes wish .... but then again I kinda have fun
poking at them :)
Blessed Be
Stuart
--- timEd-B9
* Origin: Lost Cause BBS (604) 854-1869 (1:153/556)
SEEN-BY: 1/201 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/151 528 529
SEEN-BY: 153/550 553 556 716 751 752 800 813 920 923 970 157/586 167/1103
SEEN-BY: 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99 234/100
SEEN-BY: 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211 272/82
SEEN-BY: 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105 355/2
SEEN-BY: 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100 600/253
SEEN-BY: 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5 2622/0
SEEN-BY: 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7 3619/25
SEEN-BY: 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 153/556 528 970 752 716 920 270/101 218/801
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: 1 god plus 1 god plus
|Date: 26 Apr 96 20:58:00
EID:0c5c 209aa740
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 318203f6
A lone voice in the wilderness, J.J. mournfully howled out "1 god plus 1
god plus"
JH>> (The above is not a secure route to send anything of a
JH>> sensitive nature. My employer does monitor and censor.)
SA> That's to be expected in any e-mail route. However, if
SA> your employer is touchy about personal e-mail going through
SA> there, I don't wish to cause any problems by sending it.
JH> That is not going to be a problem. (I'll not elaborate on what
JH> should not be sent because I'd probably be flooded with material
JH> of that nature.)
All right, then .. it's on its way. It's huge as it is, though, and
split into 15 parts. Keep in mind that the format it's in isn't
going to be the final one. Certain things will be moved out of the
player's section, and things will have to be rationalised into their
own sections (creatures, aliens, etc). Illlustrations will also
have to be added, but I'm not going to worry about those just yet.
Hell, I'm not even sure that any RPG companies take solicitations,
and I might have to look into self-publication. But what the hell;
I'm about to send my strip to book publishers that handle such
things, as I've run out of syndicates to turn to, and I think
selling them in book form would be a good alternative. If worse
comes to worst, however, I will see about self-publishing in that
case as well. I don't really relish the idea of starting a business
per se (hell, I don't know what I'm doing) but if no one's going to
give me a job, my best bet is to give myself one. Thank goodness I
know someone who does tax accounting; if any of this happens, I'm
going to need to hire his services. (I can't do my own taxes NOW,
and I don't have any taxable income.) Having never taken a business
course, though, I'm going to have to find out just how to do this if
needs be. I don't even know if it's a good idea, and now I'm
depressing (and scaring) myself, but I feel more and more backed
into a corner and I don't want to be flipping burgers or living on
assistance or worse for the rest of my life.
SA> I do have Call Display on my line (the little window on the
SA> telephone unit tells me who's calling) but I'm not always around
SA> to monitor that (which was why I blew $60 on an answering
SA> machine last year - hardly anyone calls here anyway, but it has
SA> come in handy.)
JH> I love Caller ID.
JH> It's nice to be able to call phone solicitors back and harrass them
JH> for a change. Unless I'm expecting a call, I normally leave the
JH> phone's bell turned off. If someone is trying to get ahold of me,
JH> I'll know it when I check the box and I'll call them back when I
JH> want to talk to them.
Mm. My number isn't in the book yet, so I haven't had a problem
with solicitors so far. It is nice to know who's calling, though,
before you bother picking up the phone. Though sometimes it's hard
to tell, with long distance calls that only come up "Long Distance".
The only LD calls I expect are from Adam, but occasionally I get
thrown for a loop. Like when Dan called and got a really exhuberant
"hello". :)
--Wolfie
"The mind of all creatures, the low and the high, is the master of
its own body, but only if the mind is at one with the flow of
nature may this system be exercised to its fullest."
--Shaolin tenet
... Trix are for kids - because everyone else is too smart to eat them.
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 246/1002 1 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: AL SCHROEDER
|Date: 26 Apr 96 19:48:01
EID:10c1 209a9e00
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 318203f7
A lone voice in the wilderness, Dan mournfully howled out "AL SCHROEDER"
DC> However, I'm sure they took out all of the vowells before they
SA> Except the Y. I don't know why it's considered a consonant
SA> everywhere but the end of a word - in several words, it acts as a
DC> Maybe this helps:
DC> vow.el
DC> noun vow.els
DC> 1 : speech sound produced without obstruction or
DC> friction in the mouth
DC> 2 : letter representing such a sound
DC> You can't say 'y' without major mouth movements as compared to the
DC> other vowels. However, 'u' comes close to not being a vowel, at
DC> least when you are saying the name of the letter.
Mm. Perhaps; but it's still really weird, especially when "y" is
the only letter in the syllable.
SA> vowel despite not being at the end. "ly*can*thrope", "dys*pha*gi*a",
SA> "my*xo*ma*to*sis", "gry*phon", "by*law", etc).
DC> It's when it's used as the 'i' sound that it takes on the vowel
DC> characteristics.
It always sounds like "i" except at the end of words (when it does
take on the vowel form) as in "dystrophy", etc.
SA> BTW, it's a nifty word as an activation command for magic items in
SA> AD&D. I got some really funny looks when I used it as such last
DC> I take it you where the DM and drove the players nuts!
Actually, no, I wasn't. I don't think I'd want to GM an AD&D game,
anyway. I don't mind playing it, but I'd rather GM something else.
I simply did happen to have a magic item that I've activated only
the one time (why I went and chose a Rod of Flailing is beyond me.
It was a bad choice, considering how the character's personality has
gelled. He (the character) is now disgusted that he used it at all,
a flail being an instrument of torture and his god being 100%
against torture. Ilmater (the god in question) doesn't seem too
concerned given the context of the attack (it was partly in
self-defence and partly in the defence of others) and the creature
being struck being a 14-foot tall two-headed Etton with twin clubs
(and being chaotic evil, the exact opposite to the alignment of both
cleric and his god) but still .. I think I'll have him be looking
for a trade somewhere. His entire psyche is centered around
healing, not hurting. He did, however, distribute about 450 copper
pieces to the poor before the end of the last game, however.)
I think my next character in xD&D is going to be a chaotic good
thief based on Robin Hood and Ned Kelly.
--Wolfie
"The mind of all creatures, the low and the high, is the master of
its own body, but only if the mind is at one with the flow of
nature may this system be exercised to its fullest."
--Shaolin tenet
... Ross Perot may not be president, but he can run for Grand Nagus!
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 246/1002 1 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Mimi Milstein
|Sub: ANIMAL ABORTIONS
|Date: 26 Apr 96 20:02:02
EID:468b 209aa040
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 318203f8
A lone voice in the wilderness, Mimi mournfully howled out "ANIMAL ABORTIONS"
MM> Sorry to contradict you, but I think you forget that zoology is
MM> more guilty than the human male. In ALL classes of mammals will
MM> ^^^^^^^^^^
MM> the female take on the nurturing role. The male may assist,
MM> but he is usually a poor wet-nurse :-)
MM> Great zoology lecture - nothing to do with mammals.
Misread that the first time. Mammals constitute a class of their
own, with various families and genera contained within the class,
hence the confusion.
SA> It is only amongst the mammals, it seems, where the young
SA> are taken care of primarily by the female (in cases where
MM> [...]
MM> which was pretty much my point :-) and not necessarily by
MM> negotiation between the sexes, but rather by 'natural
MM> inclination'. We fems are after all better suited for
MM> lactating (even though I admit hormone treatment probably
MM> could get them guys going).
Lactating is one thing, but I don't think it's the be-all end-all of
the female psyche.
SA> Humans, through technology and agriculture (substituting the
SA> milk of other animals, and making milk from soya beans),
SA> have managed to break free of mammalian restrictions during
SA> infancy as well as primate behaviour and adopt the ways of
SA> the more "primitive" classes. If Germy wants to stay
SA> "highly evolved", that's his loss.
MM> So, you don't believe that "breast is best"? .... your choice.
Not one bit. Anything nasty you eat is passed onto the baby,
whether you know anything harmful is in the food or not (ie,
pesticides or other pollutants.) Worse, it gets concentrated due to
the fact that human beings tend to be "higher up" on the food chain,
just as toxins tend to concentrate in the bodies of fish-eating
beluga whales (to the point that when they die, their bodies must be
treated as toxic waste). Formula, at the very least, can be
purified whereas breast milk straight from the source cannot be.
And if you have any sort of viral or bacterial infection, it can be
passed on, never mind the fact that a bottle and artifical nipple
can be boiled and sterilised, whereas you can't do that with your
body parts.
--Wolfie
"The mind of all creatures, the low and the high, is the master of
its own body, but only if the mind is at one with the flow of
nature may this system be exercised to its fullest."
--Shaolin tenet
... "Mary, YOU'RE WHAT!?...OK, I've got an idea..." -Joseph
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 246/1002 1 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Gods in your pockets?
|Date: 26 Apr 96 20:11:03
EID:2df4 209aa160
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 318203f9
A lone voice in the wilderness, Katherine mournfully howled out "Gods in
your pockets?"
SA> SA> I suppose the pencils and ruler were for the drafting board .. I
SA> SA> wonder whose paper they stole?
SA> DC>
SA> DC> They used the rag content for the parchment, of course!
SA>Good point. The paper I use is 100% cotton rag .. and a local uni
SA>art teacher pays an acquaintance of mine for his shaved back hair,
SA>from which he has paper made (yuk). I shit thee not. I suppose
SA>something could be done with the poly-cotton blend stuff ..
KW> Hang on just a minute-isn't parchment a thin form of leather, made
KW> from sheep or goat skin? Maybe that's why christians refer to
Yeah, it is. I think you can still buy it in some specialty stores.
KW> themselves as flocks. So...he's got my pen, your pencils and rulers,
KW> and the hides of all of his followers. No, maybe this time he can
KW> draft a coherent plan rather than that mish-mash that his sheep are
KW> currently trying to follow.
Well, at least the pencils and pen will be going to good use. :)
SA> DC> Hard to say... I'm not sure if they get eaten by the washer or
the
SA> DC> drier, so it's a toss up.
SA>Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
SA>Well, I suppose it can't be worse than using Sticky's back hair for
SA>paper.
KW> I was given as a gift some paper made with, in part, dried flower
KW> petals. Lovely stuff. However, what kind of paper is she making out
Sounds nice. I wouldn't mind some hemp paper, but I don't think you
can get it in the size I use at the moment, if at all.
KW> of hair? I would think that it would be rather rough textured,and
KW> wouldn't take ink well.
Apparently _he_ is making sketch paper with it, which would needs be
rough textured. Either that, or watercolour paper. I don't know
how well it'd work, but apparently this art teacher really likes the
stuff. I think I'll stick with my cotton rag, thanks. :)
--Wolfie
"The mind of all creatures, the low and the high, is the master of
its own body, but only if the mind is at one with the flow of
nature may this system be exercised to its fullest."
--Shaolin tenet
... Blame St. Andreas .. It's _his_ fault!
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 246/1002 1 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: QUESTION
|Date: 26 Apr 96 20:17:04
EID:3bfc 209aa220
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 318203fa
A lone voice in the wilderness, Katherine mournfully howled out "QUESTION"
SA> KW> Bear wants me to ask you, how many points is a RN (BSN) worth?
SA>For Australia, or Canada? I can give you the figures now (as a
SA>rough estimate only, mind), but I'll have to go search out the
SA>Canadian requirements (which are easier, since specific occupations
SA>ARE listed in ours, rather than rough educational requirements.)
KW> Thank you, Sue. I've passed the information on to Bear. I do wonder
You're welcome. Did you want the Canadian info, too?
KW> why the health care pros are hit with a ten point deduction, though?
There's probably too many of 'em. However, you can get a bonus
(under certain visa classes) if you want to move to where no one
else wants to, like the outback areas or the Northern Territory.
You'd have to ask if that applies, though. Keep in mind that
Aboriginal communities have their _own_ health care system, at least
they did the last I heard. I remember watching the news there,
though, and they were practically begging the government to take
back control over Aboriginal health care, because their own system
was broke and in shambles. They do, however, have flying doctors to
service more remote communities.
Canada, on the other hand, has a definite shortage of nurses,
doctors and other health care professionals, as there has been an
exodus of such looking to make more money in the US (where prices
aren't regulated.) I think the exodus is probably a good thing in
its way, as the doctors who do stay tend to stay because they like
practicing medicine first of all rather than wanting to make 10
million a year. I'd rather see a doctor who gives a damn about my
health more than wondering how much money he can squeeze from me (or
rather, OHIP) by ordering a bunch of useless tests or operations or
such, although I don't really agree with the $400,000/yr cap
currently in effect in this province, as I consider a doctor to be
much more essential and deserving of such pay (especially given the
expenses they incur due to the nature of their business) than some
dumb jock who gets truly obscene amounts for throwing a stupid ball
around on TV. Of course, a bit of personal interest is involved
there as well, I admit - I myself rely on the $100 or so a month I
wring out of the surgeon I type for. :)
KW> While I would prefer to stay in the States, every time the GOP starts
KW> getting especially rabid, I start eyeing the border.
Yeah, every time your Republican party gets rabid, I begin wishing I
wasn't so CLOSE to the border. :)
--Wolfie
"The mind of all creatures, the low and the high, is the master of
its own body, but only if the mind is at one with the flow of
nature may this system be exercised to its fullest."
--Shaolin tenet
... "Strange smell" "That's the servant... he'll be gone" - Blackadder
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 246/1002 1 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: J.J. Hitt
|Sub: Your Chain Letter [2/2]
|Date: 26 Apr 96 20:33:05
EID:39d3 209aa420
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 318203fb
A lone voice in the wilderness, J.J. mournfully howled out "Your Chain Letter
[2/2]"
>>>> Part 2 of 2...
JH> How odd... I never saw part one.
DOH! Fido strikes again. Basically, though, I suggested that if
replying to the thing counts as "passing it on", I expect something
good (or bad, if not) to happen by the 27th. It's got one day
left.
JH>> Can I call you Saint, or would you prefer MISTER Jude?
SA> Ever notice how "Jude" can be a short form of "Judas"?
JH> CAN BE?
JH> IT IS the short form of Judas.
Ok, OK, I thought so, but I've been sick due to the weather lately.
I don't know which is worse, the cold or the cold medicines.
JH> Which in turn was a very common name. And Iscariot was a place
Baigent et al suggested it could have also been a corruption of
"Zealot" and/or a reference to the sort of weapon the Zealots used.
JH> name. Put the two together and you've got Jesus being betrayed
JH> by John Doe from Cleveland. While I don't doubt that there are
JH> historical elements in the Gospels, I am inclined to suspect
JH> that Judas and the betrayal were added later for "color".
Perhaps. I always sort of liked the interpretation that Jesus set
himself up with Judas acting as fall-guy.
--Wolfie
"The mind of all creatures, the low and the high, is the master of
its own body, but only if the mind is at one with the flow of
nature may this system be exercised to its fullest."
--Shaolin tenet
... Be a better shrink and the world will beat a psychopath to your door.
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 246/1002 1 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Sue Armstrong
|To: Joe Shedlock
|Sub: "Memnoch" (2)
|Date: 26 Apr 96 22:07:06
EID:3ddb 209ab0e0
PID: BWQBBS 2.90e Beta [Reg]
MSGID: 1:246/15.0 3182040b
A lone voice in the wilderness, Joe mournfully howled out ""Memnoch" (2)"
AS> Actually, I have been somewhat unimpressed by Anne Rice, but I might
AS> have just read the wrong ones. For modern vampire stories, I like
AS> SALEM'S LOT...the vampire as a metaphor-for-sex thing has been done
AS> to death, so I liked it for the way it went back to the idea of
AS> vampire as monster.
JS> Let's "unpack" some of your statements here:
JS> 1) The going "back" to the idea of vampire as monster implies
JS> a chronology where there is
JS> Time Period 1--Vampire as (Simply) Monster, followed by
JS> Time Period 2--Vampire's Blood Lust as Metaphor for Sexual Lust,
JS> then Time Period 3--Return to Vampire as (Simply) Monster.
JS> I would question this--just to be contradictory? no--only because it
JS> is not my understanding of the vampire literature. In Bram Stoker's
JS> "Dracula" you have the idea of metaphor for sexual lust very well
JS> developed. This is the earliest piece of vampire literature that
JS> I have encountered. If you are familiar with something earlier,
JS> please let me know. Also, during the Stoker-to-King period, you had
JS> a number of vampire stories and representations in film where the
JS> "monster" element seemed to predominate, eg, "Nosferatu" and even the
JS> Bela Lugosi films. So these two elements seemed to co-exist rather
JS> than operate in succession, IMHO.
If you're only going to include literature, you have a point. But
vampire _lore_ goes back beyond Bram Stoker. Belief in vampires
goes back to at least medieval times, if not before (though vampire
lore isn't my specialty. Werewolf lore is. However, in some places
werewolf lore overlaps that of vampires, as the two were sometimes
confused in medieval times, which likely explains the bit about
vampires transforming into wolves.) What little I've run across re:
vampire lore, however, has very little to do with sexual innuendo.
They're simply monsters, the vengeful and cursed dead. It was (and
may still be) a tradition in some eastern European areas to drive a
stake through the hearts of the dead before they're buried to keep
them from coming back and bothering the living. Stoker infused the
legend with all the "romantic" aspects we now associate with the
creatures. "Nosferatu" is closer to the older legends.
JS> 2) The film of Rice's "Interview with the Vampire" develops a number
JS> of themes arguably different from the "metaphor for sex" thesis. For
JS> example, "Interview" was widely praised for its homo-eroticism.
JS> True, gay lust is a form of lust, but in Stoker's novel (or even in
JS> Coppola's film) the lust metaphor was clearly heterosexual lust, so
JS> adding homoeroticism was something new. "Interview" also introduces
a
JS> vampire "family" and can be read, I'm told, as a metaphorical tale
JS> about dysfunctional families. Also, the vampiric blood lust can be
JS> seen as a metaphor for substance addiction, possibly, more
JS> specifically, for alcoholism. Arguably, in "Memnoch," the vampire
JS> LeStat encounters Satan and God during a quest for a "higher power."
JS> (Yes, that's a heavy-handed way of putting it--so I'm not Pauline
JS> Kael.) BTW, in the film version of "Interview" Anne Rice herself is
JS> on camera for a several minute "preface" and she repeats several times
JS> that "the story is not just about vampires, it's about us."
JS> So I think there are things there in Rice that are quite novel and
JS> not just a rehash of the old "metaphor for sex" themes.
Actually, Rice seems to have added clans _after_ the role-playing
game "Vampire: the Masquerade" was published and became popular in
gaming circles. V:tM goes whole hog with the concept of clans, and
has about 7 major ones (Nosferatu, Ventrue, Malkavian, Gangrel,
Bruja, Tremere, and uh .. one other that I can't think of at the
moment; I don't own a sourcebook of my own) and some minor clan
offshoots that can be found in supplements. If you've noticed,
there is now a show based on this game out called "Kindred: the
Embarrassed .. er, Embraced". Unfortunately, they added a bunch of
goofy stuff that quite simply doesn't fit with the game (in the
show, they walk around in daylight far too much. You can't do that
in the game, as you begin taking damage as soon as you're exposed to
sunlight whether you've fed or not. Plus, they have sex. This is
probably the stupid idea of the producer, who can't seem to make any
show which doesn't have a lot of that.) Frankly, as I've mentioned,
lycanthropes are more my thing, and I'd rather throw my $40 on a
"Werewolf: the Apocalypse" 2nd edition sourcebook from the same
company. :)
As far as Rice is concerned, I haven't read her (but I have seen the
movie.) My RPGing comrades, though, insist that the concept of clans
didn't quite originate with her. As they've been consistently
role-playing more games for longer than I have (and like the game
concept more than I do) and have read her books, I'll take their
word for it.
JS> Rice also introduces the theme of people wanting to become vampires
JS> because regular human life is just so, well, B-O-R-I-N-G! (This may
JS> or may not be related to the vampirism as metaphor for substance
JS> abuse theme.)
Don't forget the aspect of immortality. One of my former RPGing
mates was really, really keen on the vampire concept, and he sees
them as rather tragic creatures, although his reasoning escapes me.
While having your insides slowly rot away (as detailed in the RPG
sourcebook) may be tragic, I find the concept of their actually
liking the way they are to be contrary to the concept of "tragedy".
The subtitle of the sourcebook, however, is "A game of personal
horror". I'd be horrified, too, if I found myself to be amongst the
walking dead, immortality or no. Yukko. :P
--Wolfie
"The mind of all creatures, the low and the high, is the master of
its own body, but only if the mind is at one with the flow of
nature may this system be exercised to its fullest."
--Shaolin tenet
... Error loading GOD.SYS; (A)bort, (F)ail, (R)un BIGBANG.EXE?
--- GEcho 1.00
* Origin: [Windsor Download BBS] USR/V.Everything (519)-973-9330 (1:246/15)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 246/1002 1 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: John Oliver
|To: Judith Bandsma
|Sub: AIDS
|Date: 27 Apr 96 13:53:00
EID:76c8 209b6ea0
MSGID: 1:246/148@fidonet 3b0db6bf
PID: QE 2.80 Zeta 1+ & FM 2.12.SW UNREG
> -=> Quoting John Oliver to Larry Bevard <=-
> JO> not only to gay people but to non-gays as well. Many people with
> JO> HIV/AIDS often go untreated untill too late because they are afraid
of
> JO> the connotation that still exists in many people's minds. And that
is
> JO> the fault of the improper education, and of course religious bigotry.
> And asshole idiots like Liberty-Parker who dump 4 part posts into every
> echo
> they can find 'proving' that HIV and AIDS are not linked...and that AIDS
> is
> not contagious.
> Try to educate people, change their behavior, slow the spread of the
> disease
> and then this idiot spreads something like this. I consider his posts
> criminal. Especially for the young people who will find justification
in
> those posts for not protecting themselves...and will die because of it.
> ... Tagline Deleted: Nothing funny about this shit.
Judith, that is precisely why he deserved the flying finger award! Many
people are still unknowledgable of the cause's of HIV/AIDS, and how to safeguard
themselves from being infected. Liberty-Parker, of course stated quite openly
that the first way to avoid it is beware of "homosexuals" which is entirely
wrong. Multiple partners, unprotected sex, sharing of needle's, and blood
products are still the ways in which people become infected, whether one
is Gay, Hetrosexual, Bi or whatever. No one is as Liberty-Parker or his
mentor Peter Deusburg safe from HIV/AIDS regardless of their dillusional
claims.
This kind of message can/will give many especially the young the incorrect
feeling that they are somehow impervious to infection, and then they might
find out 10 years from now that they really weren't. And how many people
will they infect unknowingly in that time period? Who know, but it is scary,
and to disseminate such trash such as his post is criminally negligent.
I do wish there were laws that would throw such morons in jail for life
for publishing such tripe if someone were to be infected by HIV, because
in my mind that is the equivalent to murder!
John
---
* Origin: [Pink Triangle] SILENCE = DEATH /\ (519)-255-7228 (1:246/148)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 246/148 1002 1 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Karen Davis
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: Prayer
|Date: 27 Apr 96 08:18:54
EID:6403 209b4240
MSGID: 1:207/212 ab79f18c
REPLY: 1:123/67 31809680
On (26 Apr 96) Shelby Sherman wrote to All...
SS> If anyone has info or a faq about the supposed medical studies on
SS> the power of prayer, please answer in this echo or send it my way.
My question about those studies [and I don't have anything to post for
you, unfortunately] is - if God really influenced the outcome of the
situation, why didn't he just cure the person outright? They claim to
have evidence of modest improvements - no cures.
... Honesty is the best policy unless you are a crook.
--- PPoint 2.00
* Origin: The Hobbit Hole (1:207/212)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 207/212 1 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: Chrysostom's Pasha Homily
|Date: 27 Apr 96 14:40:00
EID:be28 209b7500
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 896D0E19
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 04-26-96 11:15, Martin Goldberg got back to Dan Ceppa
MG>> Ok...you got me. I like to eat it better than spell it.
DC> Then, I'll just keep ladling it on and wash it down with a
DC> Bourdeux or a good Bourgelaise.
MG> Bourjelais?
Damn, I knew I should have stuck with the 1972 St. Emilion!
... "Man has the one true religion. Several of them!" -- Twain
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: The rest: Debunked
|Date: 27 Apr 96 18:51:00
EID:2595 209b9660
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 896D0E1A
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 04-24-96 06:51, Andrew Masten got back to Fredric Rice
AM> consequence, why did Carl Sagan and others estimate the odds of man
AM> arising from evolutionary causes at 1 in 10-exp200?? Or why did a
You must be getting your reference material from Billy Wolff.
AM> scientist who calculated the odd's of a single cell evolving so
AM> astronomical that he came up with a esoteric theory called directed
AM> transpermia???
Please name the scientist, his cridentials and his peer reviewed
papers on the above.
> 6. Second Law of Thermodynamics
FR> Status: Debunked.
AM> If it were only that simple. Please state some example of objects
AM> randomly
AM> self assembling into more complex objects.
I'd use you as an example, but that would negate my argument. You err
when you consider chemical and physical re-organization to be reandom,
just as your unnamed scientist does.
AM> Then cite examples of
AM> any singular object left alone that does not tend toward disorder.
Snowflakes.
... Blasphemy: When a religious person dares to think.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: John Passaniti
|Sub: WHAT IS A RELIGION?
|Date: 27 Apr 96 19:16:00
EID:509a 209b9a00
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 896D0E1B
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 04-25-96 01:17, John Passaniti got back to Ralph Jansen
> When a reporter writes a report or an author writes a story, it
> is always less information then the author.
JP> accident. They might, for example, determine that one of the victims
JP> was in a bar drinking and left it drunk. The reporter thus is adding
JP> information to the story that wasn't at the scene itself.
I'll agree with that...
JP> I can't imagine a reporter-- at least a good one anyway-- just
JP> reporting the facts and not also offering some analysis of what they
That I'll disagree with. An analysis is an editorial, not reporting.
Not that it shouldn't be done, but it should be done separately
from the primary story, the reporting of the facts.
... Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Rick Mcfarlane
|Sub: woids
|Date: 27 Apr 96 19:27:00
EID:3042 209b9b60
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 896D0E1C
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 04-26-96 15:30, Rick Mcfarlane got back to Dan Ceppa
RM> But the Bible doesn't mention Pi. It's just describing an object.
RM> So they didn't round Pi to 3, as you accuse them, Dan. They rounded
RM> the circumference to 30 and the diameter to 10, which is an
RM> appropriate level of precision for a casual description.
The error is still present. It provides more information that takes
away from any precision and makes it imprecise with it's inclusion.
RM> to calculate Pi. And now you admit that they aren't precise enough
to
RM> use in that calculation.
I am using the numbers, as written. Those mumbers are in error.
RM> If Pi to one digit is useless, why did YOU, Dan, decide to use this
RM> particular data to calculate Pi? It is perfectly clear that the data
As it was given by your "perfect god".
DC> God could have easily given the Hebrews the value of Pi to 6 or
DC> more significant digits.
RM>
RM> I imagine He could have. But this was not a treatise on Pi. It was
a
Your right, it's a treatise on a god that can't dictate a concept
properly.
RM> (Pi to 7 digits). How would you expect to see that rendered in a
RM> piece of descriptive prose given to a bunch of ignorant sheepherders?
Nice choice of people to provide the "greatest work ever". Seems
like you god chooses people not for ability but gullibility.
DC> a great sign and comes up with Pi=3. IOW, they and god where wrong.
RM> Oh. So now the error is that God passed up the opportunity to
RM> demonstrate His existence to you mathematically.
It would have given the bible some credance, which it sorely lacks.
... God: colourless, odorless invention, given enough time, kills people
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: 1 god plus 1 god plus
|Date: 27 Apr 96 20:08:00
EID:2a65 209ba100
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 896D0E1D
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 04-25-96 14:13, Sue Armstrong got back to Dan Ceppa
SA> I don't think they sell Bryer's here. :(
They're vanilla is to die for!
DC> Ever have a French or Italian bread? There's no eggs in them.
SA> cooked I have no idea.
DC> That's "baked", not "cooked"!
SA> I TOLD you that I'm no good in the kitchen!
Nore in a bakery...
DC> If they are true to their name, there should be nothing but flour,
SA> Hm. Never usually check ingredients lists. It's safer that way.
The only time I don't check the ingredients is when I'm getting
hot dogs. Far to scary to do so...
DC> Care to do a side-by-side taste test, using home made horseradish
SA> Look, mate, if you feed me horseradish, I'll feed
SA> you Vegemite.
Isn't that the stuff that they use to fix holes in ships?
SA> the good taste to use Lea&Perrins. :)
DC> You mean to say that someone has conterfeited Wo'steh'sheer sauce?
SA> I imagine there are no-name/store brands out there. I for one
SA> wouldn't touch the things.
I tried one once. And, it was a brand name, French's. Not even
close to comparing with all of those rather strange ingredients
that they but in the Original. Worse, it wasn't aged!
... Refried beans...why couldn't they get 'em right the FIRST time?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Sue Armstrong
|Sub: Buchanan
|Date: 27 Apr 96 20:16:00
EID:00d6 209ba200
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 896D0E1E
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 04-25-96 18:56, Sue Armstrong got back to Dan Ceppa
SA> nothing about boats, except that they're supposed to stay on top of
SA> the water. :)
DC> Mine usually does....
SA> Usually? Uh-oh. :) How sea worthy is it with 100 cases of beer?
Quite well, as that's what's used for refreshments on the short
afternoon races! ;)
DC> try and get Natalie a ride, if not on Mike's boat, but one of [..]
DC> nemesis for the Monday dinghy races!
SA> I bet she's looking forward to it ..
She's a bit worried about the heavier air sailing and said that
she'd trade off those times as skipper for the next week. However,
I told her if she doesn't use them she'll lose them. BTW, she's
enrolling in the intermediate class to get more up to speed...
SA> Yeah, that's pretty close. :)
DC> Not when you are down to 1 1/2 gallons of gas and no GPR!
SA>
SA> GPR? Grand Punk Railroad? :) (I know it's supposed to be funk, but
Unless I have the acronymn wrong, it's a position locator. As it
was, we had not idea where we really were, other than heading in
the wrong direction!
SA> Marina Sirtis (Deanna Troi) as Daemona (the gargoyle baddie)
SA> and Micheal Dorn (Worf) as Coldstone (an enchanted mechanical
Looks like everyone is getting into the act!
SA> Uh-oh. Busted! :)
DC> Shouldn't that be Lynda's line? ;)
SA> Oh, hell, it probably applies to everyone on this echo!
DC> Perhaps only to Lynda, or maybe it includes only the female
DC> members of the group....
SA> Oh, no. Most of the members here go along as gleefully as a child
SA> popping the heads off of dandelions. :)
Funny you should mention that, as Dandelion is the name of the
boat I sail on on Thursday!
... Dandelion: Pretty yellow boat crossing the line way ahead of you!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Dan Ceppa
|To: Shelby Sherman
|Sub: Prayer
|Date: 27 Apr 96 20:31:00
EID:ef76 209ba3e0
MSGID: 1:350/401.0 896D0E1F
TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0416
-> On 04-26-96 09:24, Shelby Sherman got back to All
SS> If anyone has info or a faq about the supposed medical studies on
SS> the power of prayer, please answer in this echo or send it my way.
Gleaned this off of here, some time back. Hope this helps.
===========================================================================
BBS: Ten Forward
Date: 08-07-93 (00:17) Number: 46300
From: DAVID RICE Refer#: NONE
To: SHELBY SHERMAN Recvd: NO
Subj: Therapeutic Prayer #1 of Conf: (19) HolySmoke
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
SS> Here's one for your empirical inquiry. A study was done with
SS> large groups of cardiac patients in California and New York.
SS> About 600 patients altogether. In a carefully constructed,
SS> double-blind study, designed by methodology experts, half of
SS> the patients were prayed for, half were not.
Funny how you REFUSED to provide references and documentation.
This is typical. I guess we must bow down to you as our master and
accept everything you say, right? Sheeeeeit! Must I do EVERYING?!
You're such an ass to make such FALSE claims and then have someone
else to YOUR work for you! The study proved that prayer does NOT
help heal people!
------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright (C) 1989 BAY AREA SKEPTICS. Reprints must credit "BASIS,
newsletter of the Bay Area Skeptics, 4030 Moraga, San Francisco,
CA 94122-3928."
The report, "Positive Therapeutic Effects of Intercessory Prayer
[IP] in a Coronary Care Unit Population," was published in updated
version in the "Southern Medical Journal", vol. 81, No. 7, July
1988. The author and researcher, Dr. Randolph Byrd, MD (himself a
fundamentalist Christian), conducted his study at San Francisco
General Medical Center in the coronary care unit over a period of
10 months (from August 1982 to May 1983).
The study drew 393 patients, 192 in the study group and 201 in the
control group. The conclusions of this work apparently stirred
national attention and were mentioned on Paul Harvey's broadcast.
During the ten-month period, Dr. Byrd requested all patients in the
CCU to participate in the study, a total of 450. Fifty-seven
(14.5%) declined for various reasons. Those who agreed to take part
were told the nature and purpose of the study, and they signed
mandatory informed consent agreements. A random generator then
assigned each patient to either the study group (those for whom IP
was to be offered in addition to regular procedures) or to the
control group (those receiving only "traditional" therapies), and
both the medical staff and patients were blinded as to the
membership of each group.
Finally, Byrd chose "intercessors" on the following basis: They
were "born-again Christians (according to the Gospel of John 3:3)
with an active Christian life. . . ." These intercessors were then
randomly assigned a patient in the study group for whom they were
to pray daily, outside the hospital, until the patient was
discharged.
I haven't taken the time to do in-depth analyses of Dr. Byrd's
statistical rigor -- I will assume it is adequate. At least it
seems to be upon cursory examination. (Note: At the time of this
writing, other researchers with whom I have had contact are looking
into Byrd's statistical presentation. Indications are that those
analyses will be published in the summer issue of "Free Inquiry",
journal of the Humanist Association.)
===========================================================================
BBS: Ten Forward
Date: 08-07-93 (00:18) Number: 46301
From: DAVID RICE Refer#: NONE
To: SHELBY SHERMAN Recvd: NO
Subj: Therapeutic Prayer #2 of Conf: (19) HolySmoke
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Normally "BASIS" does not enter the arena of theological questions,
but conditions of Dr. Byrd's experiment merit setting that policy
aside because he presents it as a scientific study with theological
ramifications.
If one conducts a double-blind study on the efficacy of a drug, a
direct cause-effect relationship is obtainable, and the researcher
looks for consistency in that relationship. The method of
application and strength of the dosage can then be modified and
studied as the active agents are pinpointed.
We will see that Dr. Byrd's study purports to show that prayer
results in more rapid improvement, significant in six of twenty-
six coronary conditions (see Table p. 3). But there is no way to
recognize the affect of prayer on a SPECIFIC condition. The first
question I asked myself is why those specific six for which this
study showed significance? I have little doubt that if Byrd
repeated the study, some other group of conditions would be
affected.
In other words, there would be little or no correlation between IP
and which specific symptom or condition should improve. For this
and other reasons I must consider the theological ramifications.
There are six references in the New Testament which indicate it is
the faith OF THE PERSON BEING HEALED that is the operant (e.g.,
Mark 5:34). On a specific occasion, even the most powerful miracle
worker, Jesus, was unable to effect a miracle because of the lack
of faith of His hearers: "And He could do no miracle there. . . .
And He marveled because of their unbelief. (Mark 6:5-6)"
What are the general HUMAN developments of intercessory prayer?
What does it mean that God may choose to heal some members of the
study group -- in an apparently random fashion if Byrd's sample is
statistically valid -- for whom IP is invoked? Since the study and
the control groups were randomly chosen it is just as likely that
non-born-again Christians in the study group were the beneficiaries
of healing.
Does the fact that born-again Christians were the intercessors have
any implications about the efficacy of mainline Christian and non-
Christian pleadings for God's mercy? (Jews, Moslems and Catholics
assert that God heals and saves them.) Can the alleged healing
effects of IP be separated from these moral questions?
Now for some problems I see in the protocol. The intercessors
prayed outside the hospital and it was not established in the study
what other outside contact patients had with loved ones and other
support groups. What about the prayers we can imagine were offered
by family and friends on behalf of some in the control group?
Many studies show that close contact of a large support group is
beneficial for obvious (non-religious) reasons. Byrd's failure to
monitor or consider the results of this variable is a flaw.
===========================================================================
BBS: Ten Forward
Date: 08-07-93 (00:18) Number: 46302
From: DAVID RICE Refer#: NONE
To: SHELBY SHERMAN Recvd: NO
Subj: Therapeutic Prayer #3 of Conf: (19) HolySmoke
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking over the data, (Dr. Byrd did a scientifically commendable
job of presenting the data -- even that which does not entirely
support his conclusion) there are yet other questions that greatly
trouble me, again from the humane perspective. The six conditions
to improve to any statistically significant degree were, in order
of highest significance, (1) intubation/ventilation, (2)
antibiotics, (3) cardiopulmonary arrest, (4) congestive heart
failure, (5) pneumonia, and (6) diuretics.
In other words, IP was most likely to lessen patient's time on
intubation devices and to reduce the amounts of antibiotics they
needed. Two in the study group suffered cardiopulmonary arrest
while seven of the controls did. While those in the study group
were ten times more likely to enjoy the considerably less-desired
results (1) and (2), I want to ask myself a flood of questions
about those who benefited from condition (3).
What about the two poor buggers for whom prayer was offered but
they fell anyway? How were they chosen for their fate? If a
particular medication is being tested there are no moral questions
involved in partial or total failure. What did seven (randomly-
chosen) misbegotten souls do wrong to find themselves in the wrong
group (the controls) by the fall of the dice that resulted in their
suffering condition (3)? Is it inconceivable that there were some
of them for whom family and friends, NOT in the intercessors,
prayed? Does this suggest that only the prayers of the designated
intercessors are potent?
Why does God seem to have a preference of cures He chooses to
confer (getting His subjects off antibiotics 8.5 times more likely
than stopping their congestive heart failures)? The preference
seems to extend to ignoring third-degree heart block, mortality(!),
coronary angiograms, and fifteen of the other conditions. Why is
unstable angina and the incidence of permanent pacemakers less
frequent (although not statistically significant) in the control
group?
Based upon the experiment, the general improvement of the study
group was better. This neglects the most important aspect of the
INDIVIDUAL. Again, this is a moral question, and only has validity
when a moral agent -- God -- is allegedly part of the cause.
Behind these nameless statistics are the lives of human beings
stricken with life-threatening maladies and the human tragedy
wreaked on their own and in the lives of their families. What does
this study say about them? That they are less worthy? If the
randomization process was accurate, the control group should have
contained the same proportion of born-again Christians as the study
group; what about them?
Other controlled, replicated studies have been done, studies that
eliminate some of the bias I see in Dr. Byrd's work. In one such,
patients were told that a prayer group was interceding in their
behalf in an adjoining room. In a statistically significant
proportion, they improved as compared with a control group which
was told nothing.
===========================================================================
BBS: Ten Forward
Date: 08-07-93 (00:19) Number: 46303
From: DAVID RICE Refer#: NONE
To: SHELBY SHERMAN Recvd: NO
Subj: Therapeutic Prayer #4 of Conf: (19) HolySmoke
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
In fact, there had been no such intercessory effort. When the test
was reversed, i.e., an intercessory group prayed away in an
adjoining room AND THE PATIENTS KNEW NOTHING ABOUT IT, there was
no significant difference in the patients' conditions. This study
seems to show that intercessory prayer works, but not for the
reasons that Dr. Byrd might like to think, I'm sure.
I am unwilling to accept the oft-quoted reason -- no, excuse --
"God works in mysterious ways."
It is well established that the most nearly universal drug is the
placebo. Roughly 35% of all patients respond to a placebo, be it
psychic surgery, faith healing, sugar pills, hypnosis, or an
unimaginable host of other preparations, nostrums and incantations.
How did Dr. Byrd control for the placebo effect?
TABLE
Study Variable St. Cn. P
Days in CCU after entry 2.0 2.4 -
Days in hospital after entry 7.6 7.6 -
Number of discharge medications 3.7 4.0 -
Problems After Entry No. No. P
Antianginal agents 21 19 -
Antiarrhythmics 17 27 -
Antibiotics 3 17 .005
Arterial pressure monitoring 7 15 -
Cardiopulmonary arrest 3 14 .02
Central pressure monitoring 6 15 -
Congestive heart failure 8 20 .03
Coronary angiography 17 21 -
Diuretics 5 15 .05
Extension of infarction 3 6 -
Gastrointestinal bleeding 1 3 -
Hypotension 3 7 -
Inotropic agents 8 16 -
Intubation/ventilation 0 12 .002
Major surgery before discharge 5 14 -
Mortality 13 17 -
Permanent pacemaker 3 1 -
Pneumonia 3 13 .03
Readmissions to CCU 14 14 -
Sepsis 4 7 -
Supraventricular tachyarrhythmia 8 15 -
Temporary pacemaker 4 1 -
Third-degree heart block 3 2 -
Unstable angina 20 18 -
Vasodilators 8 12 -
Ventricular fibrillation 14 17 -
(P= Significance, St. = Study group; Cn. = Control group; No. =
number of patients, "-" denotes not statistically significant. P
is the probability of chance occurrence: P <= .05 is significant.)
===========================================================================
BBS: Ten Forward
Date: 08-07-93 (19:54) Number: 46309
From: DAVID RICE Refer#: NONE
To: SHELBY SHERMAN Recvd: NO
Subj: Therapeutic Prayer summar Conf: (19) HolySmoke
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
To summarize the four-part message of the "prayer study" I've
posted for your enlightenment, four tests groups were formed.
Group #1 was prayed at and told they were being prayed at.
Group #2 was prayed at and NOT told they were being prayed at.
Group #3 was NOT prayed at and told they WERE being prayed at.
Group #4 was NOT prayed at and NOT told they were NOT being prayed
at, nor were they told that they were not, not being prayed at (ie
they had no idea they were in this study--- they were the control).
It was found that the groups that thought they were being prayed at
had better health indices than those who thought they were not being
prayed at. They found that the groups that thought they were not
being prayed at, but actually WERE, had poorer health indices than
the group that was NOT being prayed for but thought they were.
Understand the methodology? Understand the results? Health indices
only got better than the control group when the people were told
they were being prayed at, and REGARDLESS of if they actually were
being prayed at or not! Health indices stayed the same as control
for people who WERE prayed at but didn't know it.
This is proof positive that it is human expectation in prayer that
is the mechanism for "positive" results.
As an aside to this futile exorsize of mine, here I am once again
busting my chops for a fundy, spending hours hunting down the facts,
and I will bet dollars to pennies that said fundy will ignore it or
deny the facts, or whine pathetically "Is NOT!" Why the hell do I
bother?!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
* Origin: Ten Forward BBS, The Olympic Peninsula. (1:350/401.0)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 350/401 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: Steve tries to justify rape and murder
|Date: 27 Apr 96 18:38:24
EID:dd2c 209b94cc
REPLY: 1:215/130 0014de3d
PID: FM 2.02
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 3b8c45f4
DC> You'd do better at the Mass Murderers Echo down the hall,
DC> next to the Bunnies and light crowd.
SW> It was a time of war Dan. Things happen.
Ah, yes. Declair war on innocent people so you can justify rapeing and
slaughtering them. Christian Family Values.
~*~ Point the finger slow to understand.
Arrogance and ignorance go hand in hand. - METALLICA
---
* Origin: There are no Christians in foxholes (1:102/890)
SEEN-BY: 102/890 218/801
PATH: 102/890
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jim Germiquet
|Sub: Debunkings
|Date: 02 May 96 13:12:40
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 3d8d28a5
PID: FM 2.02
Did you see the lengthy debunkings I posted on your occult claims concerning
magnetic fields, sun shrinking, and Moon dust? If your masters wouldn't
allow you to see them, let me know and I'll mail them to a post office box
or some other address which your masters don't know about.
~*~ I see faith in your eyes, never you hear the discouraging lies. I hear
faith in your cries. Broken is the promise. Betrayal. - METALLICA
---
* Origin: There are no Christians in foxholes (1:102/890)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Jesse Jones
|Sub: Your MASTERS won't let you.
|Date: 02 May 96 13:22:05
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 3d8d28a6
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 896C0E3E
PID: FM 2.02
Dan Ceppa
JcJ> Is that the stupidest question you have
JCJ> ever asked, or does it get worse?
Just because your MASTERS won't allow you to answer embarrassing questions
doesn't mean that they're (either the questions OR your masters) stupid,
silly lawyer. We're all waiting for you to provide a lie-free answer to
RC Query #1 -- a query which we all know full well you have zero intention
of answering. Quite simply we all know you CAN'T answer as any answer you
make shows you're either the liar we all know you to be else you're knowingly
perpetuating known lies.
Which for you, lawyer? Any Christmas trees in your house this year?
~*~ ... In Jesus Christ name I bind all evil sprits off of this echo NOW.
- Steve Willis
I'm melting, melting . . . - Kevin D. Mckenzie
---
* Origin: There are no Christians in foxholes (1:102/890)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Dan Ceppa
|Sub: Jones' MASTERS _still_ won't let him answer.
|Date: 02 May 96 13:29:18
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 3d8d28a7
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 896C0E3E
PID: FM 2.02
Jesse Jones
JcJ> Is that the stupidest question you
jcj> have ever asked, or does it get worse?
How _DARE_ you ask embarrassing, blasphemous questions, Dan! Don't you
know that the fucking lawyer is not AUTHORIZED to even entertain such questions?
Why, questioning the "authority" of his MASTERS would lead to his freedom!
Can't have that now, can we? He might stop paying out his ill-gotten wealth
to his MASTERS were that to happen! They'll starve if too many people ACQUIRE
A FUCKING EDUCATION!
dc> No, Jesse, it's the one you have never gotten around to answering,
dc> per Robert Curry's original request. Provide evidence that
dc> god exists outside of your imagination.
Never before in the history of humanity has so simple a question put the
breaks on a fundy so effectively as RC Query #1.
JcJ> Now will you answer *my* question? It really is not that hard.
The fundy is so ready to demand that HIS questions be answered in full and
to his liking and yet he has no compulsion to answer even the simplest of
his intellectual superior's questions.
Whadafuckn friend of ******s.
dc> Don't evade it, Jesse.
Too late.
dc> Just provide the answer to Robert Curry's query.
Let's pray for an HONEST answer.
~*~ OK, here's your apology, Kev: go fuck yourself in your preferred
orifice with a dung-clotted serving spoon. - Don Martin
---
* Origin: There are no Christians in foxholes (1:102/890)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: Fred Rice is a bible thumper!
|Date: 02 May 96 13:36:38
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 3d8d28a8
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 896C0E41
PID: FM 2.02
Lawrence Mccurry
Dan Ceppa
Kenneth Mcabee
Jesse Christ Jones
LM> Yo Freddy
LM> One I'm not driving on your roads high...It's
LM> narrow minded bible thumpers like you
dc> Holding out on us Fred... You have to be,
dc> as it's already past April 1!
SHIT! My secret is out. I admit it. Every night I thump a Christanic
death cult paper idol. Yes, it all started when Kenneth Mcabee first posted
his undeniable truths about the glory-hole of god -- or was it when Jones
proved that emotions are spirits and diseases are demons? Whatever it was,
I'm a thumper. I can admit that now.
I must go now and search the world over for a cure.
LM> that put my people behind bars for smoking Gods green gift....
"...my people...?" This fuck has some "my people?"
LM> P.S. as for the fish bones on the mountian stuff,
LM> That only go'es to show how stupid you really are!
dc> And they said that it wasn't a mind-damaging substance. Go figure...
Let's figger that there were some damaged brain cells BEFORE the clown took
up damaging more deliberately.
~*~ You heathens hold court here viciously attacking anyone who dares to
profess religious faith. - Jesse C. Jones
---
* Origin: There are no Christians in foxholes (1:102/890)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: No questions, please!
|Date: 02 May 96 13:41:02
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 3d8d28a9
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 896C0E47
PID: FM 2.02
d> * Originally By: Michael Hardy
mh> There is a personal element involved too. When I was in my skeptical
mh> phase, I tried to discuss some of my questions about Christianity with
mh> a minister whose views were similar to Spong's. I think he did me more
mh> harm than good.
Imagine going to a cult master to discuss the truth and viability of the
very cult that the master is selling.
If you question the soundness of an automobile on the sales lot, you don't
go ask the salesman if it's a good car -- unless you're a Christanic fundy,
it seems.
~*~ The Gods and The Prophets sit so patiently waiting for
the bartender to pour the wine. - Peter Cassell Leon
---
* Origin: There are no Christians in foxholes (1:102/890)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Anthony Grigor-Scott
|Sub: 2 BRANHAM THREE
|Date: 02 May 96 13:43:21
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 3d8d28aa
REPLY: 3:711/933 317be303
PID: FM 2.02
AS>> ... A gray squirrel is very small. I looked through the little
AS>> telescope, and I couldn't tell it was a squirrel or not. I kept
SA> Well, that was one of the most disgusting things I've ever read.
> Why so? Do you eat steak, venison, lamb, chicken, pork, duck, etc.? Or
> are you a vegan? If you do eat meat, why are you offended that Brother
> Branham also eats meat. Or do you consider it ettiquette only when the
> animal has been killed and butchered by a third party.
Did you eat the squirrel, you filthy death cultist?
~*~ What hubris, to think that your taunts would cause me to
invade the privacy of my friends. -- Jesse C. Jones
---
* Origin: There are no Christians in foxholes (1:102/890)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Katherine Wintersnight
|Sub: Gods in your pockets?
|Date: 02 May 96 13:44:24
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 3d8d28ab
REPLY: 1:381/123@fidonet.org 24f274d2
PID: FM 2.02
kw> Either that, or the gods hiding in his pocket are stealing the pens
kw> to limit the spread of hurtful, heathen writings. Poor things, I guess
kw> they never heard of computers (or perhaps they are the driving force
kw> behind Win95?). Now, just what is it that Yahweh is doing with Dan's
kw> socks? Do you think that he (or maybe it's Jesus) has a fetish?
FR> Hey! The Christian gods will NOT be mocked!
kw> Let's see, are the Christian gods Yahweh, Jesus, and the Holy
kw> Space Ghost, or Curly, Moe, and Larry? I want to be sure that I'm
kw> mocking the right deities.
Kinda hard to tell apart, aren't they?
~*~ Origin: MARANATHA! NETWORK, KILLING FOR JESUS! (1:102/890) - FLR
I wonder if a Fido Policy complaint against your node would work?
If not, prayer will. - Martin Riley
---
* Origin: That's mighty atheist of you! (1:102/890)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: George Ambler
|Sub: why
|Date: 02 May 96 13:46:29
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 3d8d28ac
REPLY: 5:7107/9.0 317f4479
PID: FM 2.02
TN> Why debate "religion"??? Why not just share on "relationship" with
TN> Jesus??? This is NOT dead stuff as religion often is, with rules and
TN> doctrines. This is living, loving, obeying cuz of love and wanting
TN> others to know freely. No debate necessary.
ga> Yes, I fully agree with you, after all what is LIFE without Jesus ?
Ah, yes. The traditional Christanic justification for rapeing, torturing,
and murdering innocent people. "Why let them live since they don't believe
in my gods?"
Kill any innocent people today, George?
~*~ Stand in the sun from sun-up to sun-down and then try to say you
didn't get mutated by the Ultraviolet-Radiation. - James Conwell
---
* Origin: That's mighty atheist of you! (1:102/890)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Carl Laws
|Sub: SOS
|Date: 02 May 96 13:47:54
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 3d8d28ad
REPLY: 1:100/4.0 89690D0D
PID: FM 2.02
> Creationists v. Evolutionists
> Get over it! They're both _theories_, items of faith, belief, whatever
> you want to call it. So agree to disagree and then move on.
That's silly. Evolution is a demonstrated, directly observed phenomena.
It is also three theories, not just one. Additionally there is no "theory
of creationism."
Learn some science before you shove your other foot in, Carl.
Thanks.
~*~ Noah was not a Jew. He is the ancestor of the Jews and everyone else.
- Steve Bedard
---
* Origin: That's mighty atheist of you! (1:102/890)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: EPISTEMOLOGY
|Date: 02 May 96 13:49:38
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 3d8d28ae
REPLY: 1:101/525.0 317d49fc
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Welp, looks like you're trying to pretend
FR> that "Pixic Evolution" is scientific, huh?
lw> What is "Pixic Evolution"?
You know your occult pretentions toward "theistic evolution?" Just replace
your fictional deity constructs with the fictional pixie constructs and
you'll end up just as debunked as always.
~*~ Mark 16:15-18. I'll use chemistry, you use the Bible.
You will be deader than your saviour. - George Rudzinski
---
* Origin: That's mighty atheist of you! (1:102/890)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Lee Woofenden
|Sub: NDE occult beliefs
|Date: 02 May 96 13:50:08
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 3d8d28af
REPLY: 1:101/525.0 317d49fd
PID: FM 2.02
FR> That's one way to avoid the embarrassing truth: Claim the facts
FR> haven't been "adequately explained" because they deny your occult
FR> beliefs.
lw> You can assign whatever motives you want.
And nearly always debunk the cultist by doing so. I know.
~*~ I want crystals, dammit...tell me where they
are you old geezerly rockpicker. - Jesus Christ
---
* Origin: That's mighty atheist of you! (1:102/890)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: All
|Sub: Jones' latest denials
|Date: 02 May 96 13:53:20
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 3d8d28b0
REPLY: 1:350/401.0 896A0E3A
PID: FM 2.02
Jesse Christ Jones
David Rice
JcJ> Regardless of how the date was chosen by the ancient church,
jcJ> people today celebrate Easter to commemorate the Resurrection of Jesus
JcJ> Christ, David, and to suggest otherwise is hysteria.
How's _THAT_ for the contemporary American justice for you? "We took it
over, slaughtering everyone else, so it's OURS now!" And never mind the
fact that the ritual was and remains A FERTILITY RITUAL having nothing to
do with the Christanic death cult.
Amazing. Christanic death cultists will deny their own shit smells if they
think their fictional deity constructs wish it.
~*~ The event had all the marks of a work of Satan. - J. J. Hitt
---
* Origin: That's mighty atheist of you! (1:102/890)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Al Schroeder
|Sub: Imperious Attitude
|Date: 02 May 96 13:55:35
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 3d8d28b1
REPLY: 1:116/19 0325F1F4
PID: FM 2.02
> I know some of you are tired of me defending Mike. But I have seen in
> this packet two examples of the most THIN-SKINNED, PRIMA DONNA
> responses to INNOCULOUS statements of Mike that were it not for
If you don't like it, Al, leave. And take your deity constructs with you
-- provided you can find them.
~*~ "The study of theology, as it stands in the Christian churches, is
the study of nothing; it is founded on nothing; it rests on no
principles; it proceeds by no authority; it has no data; it can
demonstrate nothing; and it admits of no conclusion." - Thomas Paine
---
* Origin: That's mighty atheist of you! (1:102/890)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Elliott Finesse
|Sub: Hardly has tried this one before
|Date: 02 May 96 13:59:53
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 3d8d28b2
REPLY: 1:215/130 001a1283
PID: FM 2.02
Martin Goldberg
Michael Buttfuck Hardly
DC>> Check Asimov's _Guide to the Bible_. The city that Joshua
DC>> supposedly destroyed was not there at that time. I don't
DC>> have a copy here, but it should be readily available at the
DC>> library.
MbfH> Yes, atheistic biochemists make such
MbfH> amazingly accurate Bible scholars.
Typical dishonest sputtering from one we all expect it from.
ef> Infinitely better ones than Mike makes an evolutionary
ef> biologist. His capacity for hypocrisy, in accusing others
ef> of what he does commonly, seems limitless.
The fact that the city of Jericho was long abandoned prior to the alleged
seige has been posted to this forum COUNTLESS times. Hardly could have
hardly missed seeing it. I have the facts in my archives as a series of
debunkings of Josh McDowell -- one of Hardly's masters.
~*~ Are you Gay? And if so, as I suspect you are, you should beg for
forgiveness for all of your morally destitute ways.. - Don Ward
---
* Origin: That's mighty atheist of you! (1:102/890)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Greg Milstead
|Sub: False Prophets
|Date: 02 May 96 14:01:56
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 3d8d28b3
REPLY: 1:285/83 65fbebfd
PID: FM 2.02
Anthony Grigor-Scott
AG> Christian greetings in the precious Name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
gm> What ever happened to 'hello'?
That went out of style as Christanics seek to pin their Alpha Male deity
constructs onto their intellectual superiors. Note how the death cultists
pretend that _everyone_ has a "lord?"
~*~ It was a voluntary suicide. - Phil Morrison
---
* Origin: That's mighty atheist of you! (1:102/890)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Ed Mills
|Sub: Make them disappear
|Date: 02 May 96 14:05:29
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 3d8d28b4
REPLY: 1:105/40.762 cf61ff25
PID: FM 2.02
JS> * OLX 2.1 TD * We are pro-choice, and we shoot back.
em> What's your partiality for Salvi-potting: 12 gauge or hand
em> cannon? Myself, I'm fond of the stodgy old gov't .45 with
em> 4 Glasers followed by 3 ball rounds...
It's far better to make the Christanic masters who whip these cultists into
a hysteria simply and quietly disappear. There would be speculation as
to where their masters disappeared to, of course, and more money-grubbing
cult masters will step in and take their places, but at least making them
disappear quietly keeps innocent people from getting hurt or killed.
~*~ "As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a
revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales,
legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation
that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?"
- John Adams, letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, Dec. 27, 1816
---
* Origin: That's mighty atheist of you! (1:102/890)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Andrew Masten
|Sub: The rest: Debunked
|Date: 02 May 96 14:09:24
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 3d8d28b5
REPLY: 1:138/255.0 3180440c
PID: FM 2.02
>> 5. Probability
FR> Status: Debunked.
FR> Typical Christanic death cultist claim is that probability denies the
FR> observed fact of evolution. Typical easy debunking of same is to
FR> point out that probability has nothing to do with the observed fact
of
FR> evolution with the additional suggestion that the death cultist flip
a
FR> coin a thousand times, write down the sequence, and then ask itself
FR> how probable that sequence was at coming up.
FR> That was easy.
am> You tell me Fredrick, how possible would it be to flip
am> another 1000 times and get the same sequence??
That's easy. The first time the probability is 1:1 -- unity. And once
you're done and written it down, what's the probability of getting the same
exact sequence? More than 2 to the power of 1000 times 999.
As we see, your occultism has been utterly and fully debunked. Each and
every one of your death cult's arguments was _easilly_ debunked item by
item.
I can imagine your embarrassment.
~*~ Here...have an after-life. Sit up, boy...sit up!" - Steve Rose
---
* Origin: That's mighty atheist of you! (1:102/890)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Martin Goldberg
|Sub: ending
|Date: 02 May 96 14:14:04
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 3d8d28b6
REPLY: 1:124/9005.221 65ed97c7
PID: FM 2.02
> LH> I would just like everyone here to know that this is the last
> LH> message I plan on posting in this area? Why? because I feel
> LH> sorry for all you people who are so damn....pig headed, that
mg> Oh my. I guess I'll just have to start believing in god now.
Imagine people asking for evidence being "pig headed." If we were close-minded,
we wouldn't be repeatedly demanding evidence.
~*~ I am implying nothing, Luke. I am saying straight out he is the
imbodiment of evil. Anti-God blasphemer. - Lon S. Mabon (HolySmoke)
---
* Origin: That's mighty atheist of you! (1:102/890)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: John Brawley
|Sub: MY BOOK
|Date: 02 May 96 14:15:17
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 3d8d28b7
REPLY: 1:100/435.1 ec84c546
PID: FM 2.02
AS> I'm sorry you had to go through that, John. Truly.
jb> Your sympathy is appreciated.
What I still find interesting is that everyone who voiced an opinion --
cultists and educated people alike -- found the extorted death of a book
to be a grave wrong.
~*~ You must want the Barney conference down the hall. - David Worrell
---
* Origin: That's mighty atheist of you! (1:102/890)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Bill Arnold
|Sub: False Prophets
|Date: 02 May 96 14:15:54
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 3d8d28b8
REPLY: 1:123/44.0 3182e86f
PID: FM 2.02
??> We are truly living in the Last Days
Gee. Just like death cultists have been saying for over 4,000 years.
~*~ JESUS LIVES and he even died for the homosexual... - Nathan Dutton
---
* Origin: That's mighty atheist of you! (1:102/890)
|From: Fredric Rice
|To: Roy Gustard
|Sub: Interesting books
|Date: 02 May 96 14:17:05
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 3d8d28b9
REPLY: 3:711/933 317e3d5b
PID: FM 2.02
> AND THE TRUTH SHALL SET YOU FREE by David Icke
> This is the most comprehensive book of recent years (published
> in 1995), which portrays the current activities of the globalists
> in their endeavours to establish a New World Order.
How Orwellian, Roy. Is your foil hat well grounded?
~*~ "Gimme two pints of milk." (Orderin' the quart) - Styx Allum
---
* Origin: That's mighty atheist of you! (1:102/890)
|From: RONALD VASS
|To: LYNDA BUSTILLOZ
|Sub: my christianity
|Date: 27 Apr 96 11:42:00
EID:e103 209b5d40
LB> MH> someone who wants to invoke the Great Commission should also feel
LB> MH> bound by the admonition to turn the other cheek, or forgive seventy
LB> MH> times seven. I guess Marilyn's just a Salad Bar Christian! :-)
LB>No, Michael -- Marilyn was just someone looking over the Salad Bar trying
to
LB>decide whether or not to eat there at all. She saw you picking your
nose
LB>all over the tomatoes and lost her appetite. You couldn't have done a
more
LB>thorough job if you'd been hired by the Competition.
Nearly two years back or so , we have watch this teacher of god ,and his
posting . Like in one comment Marilyn made , "Mike as a poster boy" or
along that line. With my reglious friends , I, in a way like Marilyn
,use Mike and his postings /character / acts /lack of truely careing
about his/her follow man kind. As what is wrong with the Christian
Belief system . I do also at the same time use posting from Al.S.
Lynda.B. Judith B. as those with a belief system as the
way it could/should be ,same as i also use some of the pagen
poster ,as a good belief in something other then a christian
belief system. Mike has come out with < what i do wrong > < i will try
different > ,time and again. He seems to forget , that long time
readers have taken time to come to a opion of what he is likely like an
hold no great hopes that the change will truely carry through when he
proclaims that he will try to be more CHRIST like.
IOW , not to likely.
LB> MH> ... Too many people speak twice before they think.
LB>You very often speak twice and give up thinking altogether.
He speaks twice and at the same time ,shoots a hole in the only boat
open to him. The rains just keep on comeing down.
Mike is the poster boy of an educated Christian and what is wrong
with the church system today . It's people like him ,and my weaken
faith that cause me to look else where when i was young , and it's
people like him , that would build a High Brick Wall and keep me
away forever.IOW he's perfect to keep people out of the christian belief
system.
Hell ,he is even better then Terry L.P. and J.S. ,they sound like nuts
Mike at times sound normal. >
___
þ SLMR 2.1a þ "Psalsm 137:9 - Fun For The Whole Family"
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: In-Side In-Fo (519)756-3995 (1:221/1505)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 221/1505 1500 100 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: RONALD VASS
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: I find it amazing -Hitler
|Date: 27 Apr 96 12:09:00
EID:3f8b 209b6120
AS> AS> *Sigh* If murder and despotry and terror disqualified one from being
a
AS> AS> Christians, I would have to say Torquemada, the Borgia Popes, Vlad
Tepe
AS> AS> etc. were all not "true Christians". I do not. Many Christians have
AS> AS> misread the Scriptures and used them to justify horrible actions,
and n
AS> AS> one with a grain of sense pretends otherwise. But you STILL have
not
AS> RV> In one way , Fred has showen the point he wants to make ,
AS> RV> Those who Proclaim they are CHRISTIANS < True > before the name
AS> RV> have to be taken at their word. There is no TEST for a True Christian
AS> RV> ,it is only after all the damage has been done ,that the church
or
AS> RV> people later can say . Well , He/she/it ,wasn't a True Christian
,
AS> RV> Because of ???? add your after the facts here ..
AS> Well, but...okay, if someone claims to be a Christian, and then goes
out
Well , but >
AS> defacing churches, calling it a "Jewish superstition" (see my post to
After he got a Power Post ? ,and it was a general opion of the
country , that the churchs/believers had been pushing for years and
doing themselfs.
AS> Lynda), etc. I don't think it is too much of a leap is that he himself
did
AS> not believe in Christianity, espcially since he was a known liar in
OTHER
The real fact at this point in time Al , is we really don't know. Hitler
actions is being looked at from the now not the past. The christian
Al.S. of the 40's may have had a different opion of his future leader,
AS> things. Torquemada showed no such duplicity in his beliefs...which is
why
AS> I would unfortunately have to consider HIM a "true Christian" while
AS> rejecting Hitler. Again, it's not the atrocities, it's the consistency.
Hitler ,true or not . It's closer image and one that is
still fresh. It's a good one to keep that way as to what can happen by a
person who thinks /says / proclaims ,himself as a christian.
In all it just add's to the history of damage done by a nation that
thinks it's God led.
AS> RV> Till then ,prior to the truth comeing out , they are True
Christians.
AS> That's just it. Hitler did make statements which are inconsistent with
a
AS> belief in Christianity.
Christians i have met , seem to make a habit of doing that
little thing also . This day and age , not Hitler's.
> AS> answered Elliot about Shirer's description of Hitler's "30-point plan"
> AS> making a "National Reich Church" which would purge the churches of
> AS> crosses, Bibles, and the "strange and foreign" beliefs that came to
> AS> Germany in "800 AD"---i.e., the Christian faith. Until you can answer
> AS> that...show that Shirer was mistaken or wrong (good luck! He is a
very
> AS> well respected historian) than your claim is merely wishful thinking
on
> AS> your part.
> RV> This may of been his plan , who can say . But again it was to happen
> RV> AFTER Hitler had a lock on control. Till then he did say he was doing
> RV> it for God and country.
AS> THAT'S THE POINT!! Obviously he appealed to Christian sensibilities
for
AS> the same reason politicians kiss babies...to win support, not that they
AS> have any real interest in kissing babies.
And the Real True Christians bought the story hook/line/sinker.
Today and the past , are no different.
> RV> Hitler killing himself , may have also been a return to his christian
> RV> belief .Seeing his sin and placed himself in hell as his own
> RV> punishment for all the wrong he commited.
AS> Could be. But if he really believed, he would believe that God's grace
is
Better reason ,to buy that he did believe .He didn't want to face God
for the crimes he committed.
AS> infinite, and ask for forgiveness, and since he was raised Roman Catholic,
AS> he should have summoned a priest...
No time . Hitler didn't so call shoot himself , till they were beating
on the door.
AS> RV> _After_ the fact again , we will never know ,if Hitler ,himself
still
AS> RV> thought of himself as a Christian.In this area it is others who
are
AS> RV> claiming he isn't or couldn't be .
AS> Suppose I claimed that Preston Simpson, or Dan Ceppa, or many another
AS> former believer...that we could probably quiz family and friends to
find
AS> statements indicating their former belief...should I call THEM "real,
true
AS> Christians"? No, because their later statements and actions have shown
it
AS> inconsistent with their later beliefs.
For one , Do they proclaim themselfs christians .. ?? That's your claim
not theirs. Hitler did proclaim in public that he bought the faith.
Have they committed a few million deaths also ?
Is Dan C. Not a Real God ,and I think Preston S. is also a God now too.
Because as Gods they are better then the bible picture of the Christian
God , i would hope they don't call themselfs christians.
No , Al. , you have to do better then that.
___
þ SLMR 2.1a þ Get Drunk And Kick Your Ass For Jesus.
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.4H1
* Origin: In-Side In-Fo (519)756-3995 (1:221/1505)
SEEN-BY: 13/13 37/100 90/90 102/735 890 103/2 104/821 105/103 107/411
SEEN-BY: 119/88 120/229 123/1 129/11 133/707 138/146 153/800 920 157/586
SEEN-BY: 167/1103 200/204 203/992 204/200 206/2711 218/801 907 225/99
SEEN-BY: 234/100 245/6910 260/10 801 261/1137 270/101 102 103 104 211
SEEN-BY: 272/82 280/1 282/1 4073 292/876 320/119 344/3 346/49 348/105
SEEN-BY: 355/2 362/37 369/110 372/200 379/10 380/25 387/31 396/1 406/100
SEEN-BY: 600/253 760/600 2002/2002 2430/1423 2433/225 2490/3001 2613/5
SEEN-BY: 2622/0 2624/306 2806/1 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 3612/240 3615/7
SEEN-BY: 3615/50 3619/25 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3 7107/9
PATH: 221/1505 1500 100 3615/50 396/1 270/101 218/801
|From: RONALD VASS
|To: AL SCHROEDER
|Sub: I KNEW THAT 1/2
|Date: 27 Apr 96 12:33:00
EID:a1e6 209b6420
> AS> Well...perhaps some of the ones you have encountered are like that,
b
> AS> you have to remember that modeming draws extreme. There are plenty
of
> RV> As a sysop , this is one person , you won't have to work at to believe
> RV> that statement.
AS> Everybody likes to broadcast their message, if they have what they feel
a
AS> duty to do so. Even me, to a certain extent...I had been thinking about
AS> some of the implications of the anthropic principle for some years.
Thats why you created your web site. To broadcast your word.
> AS> scientists who also believe. The Big Bang theory was developed by
a
> AS> cosmologist who is also a Roman Catholic priest, for instance.
> RV> I have notice you just love bring up the fact that scientist can be
> RV> reglious also , why ?? , most who do any reading , all ready know
> RV> that. There are many starts of science that be follow back to the
R.C.
AS> The only times I bring it up is when people start to tell me that
AS> believers are among the "lesser educated", etc. We need reminding
Come on , you ,yourself told me Fred a fake on that .
AS> sometimes that things like the Scopes trial is more a product of American
AS> fundamentalism than current Christian thinking as a whole.
In the early 1700's , he would of been killed off by now.
> AS> Mike's more reasonable than you give him credit for. But there certain
> AS> have been a few like that waltzing in here, and will be more.
> RV> To you , in your view he maybe open and reasonable, to me he is a
> RV> person who twist the views to match his debate. All the time i follow
> Okay. Perhaps then you missed the post where he was asking for direct
> criticism? Mayve you would like to send that directly to him.
Nope . Not this kid. Mike is like Fred that way. He wants the better
educated also. I don't match that idea. It's a fake Al. , he's done it
before and he will do again But ,he hasn't change 1 bit nor is he likely
to change. Talking a real change not a put on change.
Forget it , not worth your time nor mine.
> AS> The only thing cute about him recently is trying to avoid Elliot's
quo
> AS> about Hitler's "Reich Church".
> RV> That is or maybe a good one to come . I've cleared off a few megs
or
> RV> so so i can save all the to and froms from Fred & Elliot's. I must
AS> Both Elliot and Marilyn are honest debaters, trying to make their points
AS> intelligently.
They are that.
> RV> This brings another thought to me , I know it's nothing to do with
me
> RV> but it seems your trying to get in the middle of too many things ..
AS> You're probably right. That's why I'm going to bow out of the
AS> Elliot/Katherine thing. OTOH, I don't want to desert a friend, if I
think
AS> he or she's being jumped on for the wrong reasons.
Reading Marilyn posting to from you ,she's getting upset ,If me i would
also back away from that 1 also.
AS> RV> who threaten them i would hang them high ,hell i even
pay a
AS> RV> few $$ for the shot of pulling open the trap door.I also believe
it
AS> RV> would cause no bad dreams for myself. By the By ,with that you can
see
AS> RV> that i'm a sick puppy.
AS> A little judicious hanging? There are times, despite my general opposition
AS> to capital punishment, where I am tempted, especially in child abuse
AS> cases.
That for sure really gets to me . Kid's and the old. Not right , never
right.
> AS> the best. Humanism actually started among religious men, l