God Damned Fundies!
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: jonny vee
Sub: Evolutional Ignorance
Date: 12 Jan 94 15:37:34
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MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 060d76ae
REPLY: 1:215/606@Fido 01157042
PID: FM 2.02
>> The Misconceptions of Evolution
>> By Ransom R. Traxler
>> In spite of our technical society and our public school system,
>> most people believe in many misconceptions about evolution.
jv> Misunderstandings of details of evolutionary theory can be as
jv> harmful as the misinformation at the broader scale Traxler discusses.
jv> One such is the belief that the conflict between so-called gradualism
jv> and punctuationism casts doubt on all evolutionary theory.
Yes. If you saw it, Bill Wolff and others have been thinking that the debate
about the mode and tempo of evolutionary speciation ment that evolution
doesn'
t happen. Bill Wolff and these others didn't know that it was the mode
and te
mpo under discussion and not the validity of the fact.
Traxler should have mentioned it, yeah.
>> One reason could be that they are ignorant about science and,
>> therefore, make many mistakes. However, they say that they are
>> experts on evolution and have some degree in engineering or
>> theology to prove it.
jv> It should be too obvious to bear my pointing it out, but for the
jv> sake of educating the most dreadfully ignorant here, let's take
jv> note that a degree in engineering may be technical, but not
jv> necessarily scientific.
Immanual Kant recognized the possibility that the fuzzy nebula that scientists
and laypeople saw in the sky at night might be "island universes" -- that
was
in 1755 long before Edwin P. Hubble determined the validity of the expanding
universe.
Intelligent people capable of employing deduction need not hold degrees
in ast
ronomy or cosmology or physics to deduce a rational possibility. They may
not
know how to test the validity of the possibility, of course. What we see
ar
e people who don't know what constitutes a rational deduction of evidence
hold
ing no discernable degrees within the bevy of knowledge they feel comfortable
and justified in speaking of.
It's not totally unjustified to ask the creationist what his or her credential
s are yet, more often, the next question should by why that person feels
quali
fied to speak outside of his or her field.
jv> Many people have come to associate the complex equipment used
jv> in scientific research with science itself, but science is much
jv> more than big machines and flashing lights.
It is?
jv> As for the scientific background of a
jv> theology major, well, I won't waste my time.
A theology major is merely a philosopher who specializes in deity-oriented
men
tal masturbations. One may as well discuss biology with a plant.
>> Many of the "scientific creationist" debaters make statements they
>> cannot prove; in fact, many scientists have proved their claims as
>> false and they have admitted their error. Yet in their next debate
>> or presentation, they repeat these falsehoods unabatedly.
We certainly see a lot of this in the HolySmoke forum. Bill Wolff, for
instan
ce, and Ron Stringfellow would merely blink a few times and then restate
the i
rrational and soundly-debunked claim.
jv> This may be a false dichotomy. There is at least
jv> one other possible explanation, I think.
jv>
jv> I have a model of the creationist mentality that may explain
jv> some of their behavior. The key factor is faith.
Faith? Not ignorance?
jv> Individual creationists may or may not consider themselves
jv> scientists, but in truth, the creationist approach is the exact
jv> opposite of the scientific method. Science comes to conclusions
jv> based on the process of observing nature and then developing
jv> hypotheses, experiment, and theory to explain what has been
jv> observed in nature. Creationism uses a religious approach. They
jv> begin with the conclusion, an unquestioned (and, to them
jv> unquestionable) belief that the existence of the universe and all
jv> we see in it is the work of their deity, and then they work
jv> backwards from that to develop their so-called theory.
That may very well be merely faith and yet I still consider it to be ignorance
as its primary motivation. The physical impossibility of their claims are
no
t subject to debate among those who know of such violations of physics.
If th
e creationist understands physical laws and continues to believe in the
creati
onist nonsense, _then_ it is a matter of faith.
My opinion, of course. Faith isa wonderful motivator yet what creationist
has
managed to argue rationally, technically, or scientifically about his or
her
strange beliefs? I will claim that none have and that none can.
jv> Those of us who are not afflicted may not understand the power
jv> of religious faith, having never felt its fierce solidity.
If they are educated in physical sciences, that would be one astounding
magnat
ude of willful denial.
jv> I myself can testify to the subjective reality of this
jv> experience; though obviously my own faith was not as unshakable
jv> as others (else I would not be writing today from this side of
jv> the dispute), I can say that I know some of what it feels like.
Such irrationality is aparently foreign to me. I can't concieve of someone
be
ing so badly blinded by wishful thinking as to believe what he or she "knows
d
amn well ain't so." I would like to attribute it to ignorance rather than
fai
th.
jv> christian, the deity is as real as the ground s/he walks on. While
jv> some may have the occasional crisis of faith, and while others may
jv> be christians by cultural default or even cynically making a
jv> killing on the schlock market, a significant number of christians
jv> really do believe completely in the myth and dogma of their church.
A belief in deities is one thing. A belief in the 'validity' of a church
myth
ology is quite another. Yet, as Steve Bedard has shown us, if one can accept
one occult belief, others are not so very difficult.
jv> In christian religion, they expect data and conclusions to be
jv> supported by scriptural "evidence". If a hypothesis is in conflict
jv> with religious doctrine, then the hypothesis must be modified or
jv> discarded. If an observation contradicts Holy Writ, then the
jv> observation must be erronious and must be discarded. If someone
jv> claims the observation is confirmed as fact, they must be mistaken,
jv> lying, or somehow misled by Satan.
The ultimate bail-out what faith is threatened. Notice how Bedard thinks
that
we're serving his 'Satan' deity? ("Allowed to choose" was his actual words.)
The reason the rational are incapable of a belief in unseen deities is becaus
e we worship one of his unseen deities.
jv> A creationist can not accept anything that contradicts their
jv> beliefs. They will make claims they cannot prove; they believe
jv> that the claims are true, so proof must exist.
Sounds like Bob Larson. He _knows_ that there are 'Satanists' running around
the country, highly organized and international, eating babies and fucking
his
children. When not one bit of evidence is found, it's because the conspiracy
is so well planned and actioned -- not because he's full of onzin.
jv> Whether they are in posession of proof or not is ireelevant to them.
jv> You can prove them false; they will believe that they are still true,
jv> and your proof has some error they can't put their finger on or
jv> something like that.
An astute evaluation. Certainly facts never sway a creationist to reason.
jv> The creationist(s) described may be acting from one of the two
jv> possibilies Traxler suggests, either making mistakes about science
jv> due to ignorance or knowingly repeating lies, but I would suggest
jv> that they may also be acting under influence of faith, unable to
jv> recognize that they are disseminating disinformation, unable to
jv> distinguish between objective reality and the myth they believe in.
It's entirely possible that Traxler was being politically nice and not trying
to point at unreasoned faith as the crux of the problem. He may employ
that r
easoning (willful ignorance due to faith rather than simple ignorance) because
he is a skeptic and is not supposed to consider religious faith.
~*~ Not all scientists are stupid. - Joanne Bergeron
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From: Fredric Rice
To: Dan Ceppa
Sub: Maybe you can tell me
Date: 12 Jan 94 16:33:26
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dc> ... +Origin: MARINARA Network: Soaking your meat for Jeezus!
This one is meat! I mean neat!
~*~ The sun is covered in bright green puppy dogs.
Martians have taken over the US government. - Kelsey Bjarnason
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From: Fredric Rice
To: Jesse C. Jones
Sub: Morality Quotient(tm)
Date: 12 Jan 94 16:47:01
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REPLY: 1:135/71.0 2d28d708
PID: FM 2.02
QT> What I have seen from your posts, Jesse,
QT> are not what I saw 3 months ago.
jcj> I'll tell you what, Kenn. I came on here and tried to discuss
jcj> things with the participants in an intelligent and respectful way.
Yet you failed with your first post, by all accounts. Anyone who claims
that
emotions are actually spirits is incapable of discussing anything in an
intell
igent and rational manor. Quite simple, and no insult intended, you failed
b
ecause you were incapable of being rational. Time was all it took to get
clea
r indication of this immutable fact.
jcj> Instead I have been insulted and vilified.
You chose (so you claim) to join the Christian deathcult. No one held a
gun t
o your head and demanded that you join the single most destructive ideology
wh
ich has yet to walk the Earth.
jcj> Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek. Sometimes I fall short.
So much for rational discussion.
~*~ Did you know that whiskey was made to keep the Irish
from ruling the world? -
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From: Fredric Rice
To: Gary Glunz
Sub: FIRST GAY FUNDY
Date: 12 Jan 94 16:49:01
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DB> The individual chooses whether to resist the temptation or indulge it.
DB> Deliberately indulging in what one knows to be evil is known as 'SIN'.
DB> Homosexual acts are intrinsically evil because they are opposed to
gg> Gay-bashers like yourself are almost invariably self-repressed
gg> homosexuals who feel threatened by others expressing their gay
gg> lifestyle and being happy.
BINGO. We have a winner. You've hit that guy's problem right on the nail.
(S
o-to-speak.) And I see that Steve Winter is a butt-buddy want-to-be with
this
guy. I'll post the article next:
~*~ If Iraq invaded Turkey from the rear would Greece help? - Unknown
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From: Fredric Rice
To: All
Sub: Hey, Edith! Dinner on the table!
Date: 12 Jan 94 16:52:12
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MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 0610d7dd
PID: FM 2.02
"Thank You Mr. Archie Bunker"
By Glen Pannicke
SysOp: The Digital Abyss BBS, 1:107/398
(908) 422-4130
[14.4Kbps v.32b v.42b]
Dear Mr. Winter,
Your article in FidoNews Vol.10 No.52 regarding homosexuality and
the Bible is clear in displaying your blatant discrimination and
outright self-righteous ignorance. I have no idea what relevance
your article has towards issues involving FidoNet. In fact, it only
adds more fuel to the many bonfires which burn in the good old
"Fight*O*Net". Thank you Mr. Archie Bunker!
I am not a homosexual. As a matter of fact, I am 100%
heterosexual. I am also not your stereotypical "bleeding heart
liberal" either, but your article made me choke. I cannot believe
you seriously have the gaul to submit this article for publication!
I make FIDONEWS available for on-line viewing on my BBS and I have
received replies from many disturbed users regarding your article.
It is our contention (mine & a few other user's here) that you
gay-bash from behind the sacred shield of religious belief.
Quoting Steve Winters:" I encourage anyone deceived into the sewers
of homosexuality to repent and find a true Acts 2:38 Church.
The sin is fatal, but it is not unforgivable."
Well Steve, I encorage those who have been deceived into the
sewers of your ignorance to seriously consider focusing on some of
the more virtuous disciplines of the Bible. I would like to know
if your "true Acts 2:38 Church" is totally devoted to gay-bashing
or is it devoted to the spirit of Christ? Does your congregation all
wear white sheets to mass? Do you focus on just homosexuals or do
you employ Equal Opportunity Hatred in your congregation by including
Hispanics, African Americans, Asians, Jews, Muslims, Native
Americans, Taoist-Communist-Bisexual-One-Eyed-VietNam-Veterans too?
Discrimination in any form is banned on my BBS out of plain old
common courtesy to all. I guess the HOLY_BIBLE echo is too. Your
message of ignorance and hatred won't reach here.
~*~ You're dangerous 'cause you're honest - U2
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From: Fredric Rice
To: Gary Glunz
Sub: Satanism 101
Date: 12 Jan 94 16:57:04
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SV> From what I gather, they believe in the teachings of
SV> christianity, but have decided that Satan is the God to worship...
gg> NOT!!
FR> Yet SV reached the conclusion that Anton LaVey wished him to reach
FR> when armed only with the name of his religion.
gg> Yeah, it seems that ol' Anton isn't really interested in mass
gg> appeal. The Church of Satan does not prostelyze (sp?), rather
gg> they let those truly creative individuals come to them - and their
gg> ranks stand proud :-)
And it certainly was a good marketing gimmick. I wonder if Anton realized
jus
t how far and widely known his religion is among the Christian populace;
yet p
erhaps a percent of them know the precepts behind the synthetic religion.
~*~ I don't care if you're a Lesbian trapped in a mans body
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From: Fredric Rice
To: Gary Glunz
Sub: "Missing day"
Date: 12 Jan 94 21:05:10
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REPLY: 1:100/4 861F2527
PID: FM 2.02
gg> I tried to find out where this "planet" is supposed to be, but she
gg> dodged the question & said she "wasn't allowed" to tell people
gg> where it is :-)
That's part of their belief that they get their own planet after they're
dead.
If they're good little boys (girls not allowed) they get to rule their own
pl
anet and create their own tyranies.
~*~ Homosexuality and liberalism IS evil... Both are destined to fail...
- Joe Savelli
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From: Fredric Rice
To: Khonsu
Sub: An Often-answered Questio
Date: 12 Jan 94 21:29:04
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REPLY: 1:247/133 02164bdc
PID: FM 2.02
FR> There is nothing unusual about virgin births. It happens quite often.
TAW> Evidence please. As well, clarify what you mean by "virgin birth".
k> Beggin your pardon guys, but aren't most
k> people virgins when they are born?
It's a long and lengthy story.
~*~ If I'm an atheist, does that mean that I won't go to heaven?
- Rodney Matejek
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From: Fredric Rice
To: Martin Goldberg
Sub: Evolution
Date: 12 Jan 94 22:05:55
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REPLY: 1:124/4115.221 39ab7b00
PID: FM 2.02
> Gish also dredges up several sea-serpent and lake-monster
> tales to make his case. Thus the Loch Ness Monster becomes
> the Cretaceous plesiosaur Elasmosaurus.
It's amazing the level of lies and deception a Christian will go through
in or
der to convince himself and those who'll pay him money for the priv. about
suc
h creationist nonsense.
There were tests performed on the population density of the fish life in
Loch
Ness to determine the size of a possible large animal surviving for a period
o
f time. It turns out that the biggest aquatic animal which might survive
is 1
00 pounds.
> see Jacobs 1993). In all seriousness, when referring to one
> sea-monster account, Gish says, "It seems you never have a
> camera when you need it!" (p. 87).
Just like his deities.
> thrown overboard. Ever the mystery monger, Gish quotes
> Japanese scientists who believed this to be a plesiosaur,
> but Gish never mentions that the tissue samples showed this
> creature was really a shark (Cohen 1982: 174).
Cohen has uncovered many creationists lies much like this one. He's reachable
through InterNet mail, by the way.
~*~ We tend to idealize tolerance, then wonder why we find ourselves
infested with losers and nut cases. -- PATRICK HAYDEN
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From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Rose
Sub: Demons
Date: 12 Jan 94 22:06:44
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REPLY: 1:109/601 2d28ab52
PID: FM 2.02
SQ>> He IS comparing himself to Jesus. Witness his masochistic desire
SQ>> to be ridiculed and abused by the "heathens" here.
DW> I know where we can get a couple of cross-ties to use for a cross.
sr> I know of many people we can invite to join in and hoist him up.
No need. He's hoist by his own petard.
~*~ Airplanes are able to fly because God created the laws of nature
that allow it to fly. - Steve Bedard
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From: Fredric Rice
To: Joe Schultz
Sub: Real unconvincing evidence
Date: 12 Jan 94 22:38:20
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REPLY: 1:114/262.0 2d285d5b
PID: FM 2.02
JS> Now, for my personal definition of God:
JS> "Any one/thing smarter/stronger than I."
ML> Then gravity's a god to you?
JS> No. I am smarter than gravity.
ML> Not at all apparent.
js> Ok, brain. Prove to me that gravity has intelligence.
You should be asking for evidence, not mathematical proofs which
you w
ould be ill-equipped to decipher in any event. Yet, to provide evidence
to s
uccessfully argue Marty's comment:
1) Gravity doesn't feel the need to define a non-existant something called
'go
d.'
2) Gravity is intelligent according to the requirements of intelligence;
speci
fically, gravity reasons and contemplates all of existance instantaniously
(ex
plained below.) You do not. (If you desire further requirements for intellig
ence, please state them.)
Gravity is perfect in everything it does; you are not. First, gravity is
always accumulative and never makes any mistakes about it. Gravity makes
its
effects known throughout the entire universe, never missing a spot, according
to very strict laws from which it does not deviate; you do not attain such
hig
h levels of reliability. Gravity can be depended upon; you can not. Gravity
o
ften sorts dissimilar materials to a degree of perfection you are entirely
inc
apable of performing. Gravity will never die; you will soon.
-=-
Quite simply, if you're looking for something smarter than you and something
w
hich is perfect in everything that it does, gravity is your deity.
~*~ D'you wear a black arm band when they shot the man who said
"Peace could last forever" - GNR
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From: Fredric Rice
To: Dave Schultz
Sub: Good and ignorant
Date: 12 Jan 94 22:49:39
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PID: FM 2.02
ds> It's a matter of becoming aware, or admitting that love is
ds> really God, not the human, so to speak. The human is the
ds> receiver of that love.
Well, so much for biology. It would appear that chemicals are stronger
than y
our deities, Dave. It also appears as though your deities are easilly created
and discarded as needed through electrochemical reactions induced through
dir
ect cranial stimulation and medicative manipulations.
ds> I know that's hard to accept.
It's quite easilly accepted by those who are ignorant of biology and by
those
who foolishly buy into the occult.
ds> Example: When we say: 'I Love You' to the object of our
ds> affection, we are really saying "I god You," or I want to be
ds> your god. Or I want you to be my god. Ring a bell?
Good grief how bizzare! Your occult beliefs allow you to redefine words.
I h
ave a buck here that says you're a creationist.
ds> Doesn't it seem typical, when someone uses the word God, everyone
ds> opposed to the term runs to their armory and pulls out their
ds> street sweepers, hand grenades and sniper guns?
Where is this happening?
In South Central Los Angeles where the gangs come
from Catholic families and go to church every sunday?
Or are you thinking of Lebanon where warring Christian
factions take delight in getting photographs
of god's enemies after their bellies are cut open?
Or are you thinking of Northern Ireland where
Prodestants look for Catholic children to murder with
car bombs in retaliation for Prodestant children
murdered by Catholics?
Or perhaps you're thinking of Serbian Christian
forces trying to exterminate the infidel Muslim towns?
You know, where the good Christians rape seven-year-old
boys and girls before cutting them from the crotch up?
You're selling hatred, tyranny, and superstitious ignorance, Dave. You'll
fin
d that the prospective buyers here are far better educated than you are
in the
ways of religious tyranny in the name of your deities.
~*~ It's the end of the world as we know, ah it's the end of the world
as we know it -- and I feel fine - R.E.M.
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From: Fredric Rice
To: Luke Enriquez
Sub: Wait a minute...
Date: 12 Jan 94 22:52:10
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PID: FM 2.02
le> I feel uncomfortable about islamic countries, but I dont
le> think there more evil than anyone else.
What's wrong with Islamic countries?
btw: that's "they're" not "there."
~*~ A religionoid cannot use Dove. Dove only sports 1/4 cleansing cream...
and their myth-gawds demand 100% purity. - Steve Rose
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From: Fredric Rice
To: Tyler A. Wunder
Sub: no not that
Date: 13 Jan 94 10:25:01
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REPLY: 1:221/279.4 2d27ff8f
PID: FM 2.02
KJ> In a recent study done by two astute athiest independantly
KJ> came up with the same results : The probability of life
KJ> coming into existence without the intervention of some divine
KJ> being is 0.
taw> Interesting.
In spades. The fact that these two "athiests" were believers in deity never
e
ncroached into this poor guys mind. Of course he lied.
~*~ But lets face it, if politicians weren't allowed to lie, half the
time they'd have trouble saying their own names. - Paul Feonic
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From: Fredric Rice
To: Marty Leipzig
Sub: Sacred Sperm
Date: 13 Jan 94 10:34:47
--------
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 068a62e7
PID: FM 2.02
ml> ...Oh, Immanual Kant was a real pissant who was very rarely stable.
Was _is_ the half-life of an Immanual Kant?
~*~ D'you wear a black arm band when they shot the man who said
"Peace could last forever" - GNR
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From: Fredric Rice
To: Robert Curry
Sub: "true scientist" flood of ignorance
Date: 13 Jan 94 10:40:50
--------
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REPLY: 1:3603/140.4 7cb02a73
PID: FM 2.02
JC> If both polar ice caps melted COMPLETELY
rc> ...sea level would rise a number of feet. Fredric Rice would drown
rc> (since he's in the Netherlands) and I would regret not being able to
rc> shoot him for his annoyingly consistent spelling infractions. :-)
Oh come now! I've only been ticketed twice this year. }:-}
JC> and then a large asteroid hit the Earth
Lovely science fiction plot development.
rc> How large? Round figures will be fine here. Let's see 'em.
Large enough to oblate the majority of the planet off into a cometary orbit,
l
eaving the rest to wobble as a glob of magma:
JC> and jolted it a couple of degrees off it's current axis of rotation
See?
JC> the water in the oceans would spill all across the continents
JC> at Everest-height.
rc> Such charming make-believe.
Not only that, he contradicts his own mythologies.
~*~ "You were very dear to me. Your love for me was wonderful.
More wonderful than that of women." --2 Samuel 1:26
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From: Fredric Rice
To: Rob Bamford
Sub: Fact vs. Faith
Date: 13 Jan 94 10:42:35
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REPLY: 1:202/1312 2d21a883
PID: FM 2.02
It could also be argued successfully from the other side of the coin. Which
i
s also exactly what he wants, by the way.
~*~ though we do not accept homosexuals into the church
that does not make us bigots - Dan Lafferty
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From: Fredric Rice
To: Jesse C. Jones
Sub: Jesse sees demons everywhere he turns
Date: 13 Jan 94 10:45:21
--------
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REPLY: 1:135/71 b686c05e
PID: FM 2.02
SQ> We're unravelling your clown suit right now,
jcj> Is this one of those damning points that I'm supposed to respond to?
It's merely a suggestion to go see your tailor.
~*~ You can UV irradiate a cockroach all day long and all
you'll have is a warm cockroach. - Marty Leipzig
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From: Fredric Rice
To: Jesse C. Jones
Sub: Demons all around Jesse trying to get him!
Date: 13 Jan 94 10:48:34
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REPLY: 1:135/71 b686c05e
PID: FM 2.02
jcj> Your predictions of my departure suggest you want me to leave,
jcj> which suggests you are afraid that the Spirit of the Lord might
jcj> actually speak to you if Christians are permitted to speak to you.
While there is zero chance of myths talking to the better educated, you
procee
d from an groundless and unwarranted assumption: There are no Christians
in t
his forum.
~*~ "Onward Xtain soldiers"...like the Iraqi army. - Marty Leipzig
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From: Fredric Rice
To: Greg Gentry
Sub: Nuke Japan twice (It's the only way to be sure)
Date: 13 Jan 94 11:14:20
--------
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 068a62ec
REPLY: 1:280/25.0 2d23d703
PID: FM 2.02
Groan...
It seems reading comprehension suffers at times. Perhaps it is my horrid
spel
ling which is at fault. Here goes exactly nothing:
FR>> The nuclear bomb was undefendable and devistating.
gg>> Oops, this is what I get for entering a thread mid-stream (can one
gg>> do that? maybe mid-waft?). I misunderstood, I think we both agree
gg>> that the US bombing of Japan was unjustified.
FR>> This I do not agree with. The bombing of Japan was justified
FR>> reguardless of the weapon used and, sadly, reguardless of the target
FR>> -- which included civilian non-combatants.
gg> So, do you agree or not? The first quote is you, the second quote is
gg> me agreeing with you, then the third quote is you disagreeing with
gg> me and by extension, yourself!
Incorrect. Step one: Read again, "The nuclear bomb was undefendable and
devi
stating(sic)." It does not say that the use of a nuclear device was "politica
lly undefendable" or "totally unjusified." It says that the nuclear device
ha
s no defense: undefendable; that it is devistating(sic): it visits destructio
n upon the target.
No political opinion was stated. The technical aspects were.
gg> Is the "nuclear bomb undefendable and devistating (sic)?" Or was
gg> the "bombing of Japan...justified reguardless (sic) of the weapon
gg> used?"
You're confused with trying to equate a political and emotional attribute
for
the word "undefendable" whereas it is spelled-out in black and yellow and
incl
udes no political opinion. The destruction and undefendability of nuclear
dev
ices is what is the matter of contention between people who argue about
how un
fair the United States was is its use of nuclear devices.
gg> Hmm...look at that, those came out of both sides of Fred's face.
gg> Wow, what logical contortions he's making! Usually, we newbies
gg> call that a contradiction.
Though I could not successfully argue for better reading comprehension skills
due to my, sadly, horrid spelling, I could suggest that you may merely have
be
en trying to read into my statement a political or emotional basis for it.
Fro
m the technical standpoint, I am correct. From the political standpoint,
war
is war and it doesn't matter what devices are used to kill the enemy. 'And
in
times of war, innocent non-combatants have historically been included as
the e
nemy.
We don't have to like it. Few do. We hold criminal cases against those
loosers who engage in it. The winners don't have to worry greatly about
world
opinion.
gg> Correct this tyro, oh great master.
Let's just see how far this one goes.
~*~ Your immortal soles, corns and all, are in danger of
ever-lasting stewing in the Holy Bile! - David Rice
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Greg Gentry
Sub: Back in the USSR with a little Mao
Date: 13 Jan 94 11:55:30
--------
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 068a62ed
REPLY: 1:280/25.0 2d23d708
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Christianity has the proven track record of killing for Christian
FR> ideologies. Can you point to an "atheistic ideology" which was used
as
FR> a reason to kill? Other than in self defense? Or will you pull a
FR> McCarthyism with Jesse and claim that an economics-oriented government
FR> which demanded a lack of deity beliefs are themselves a deity-oriented
FR> ideology?
gg> Yes, I can point to an "atheistic ideology"
gg> which has been used as a reason to kill.
This should be highly entertaining. Though it's been done before.
gg> Atheistic meaning not believing in God.
Incorrect. Atheist as in meaning a lack of belief in all deities, not just
on
e of a particular gender or of a particular cult. If you attempt to redefine
the label in mid-stride, there will be CRC errors in the link.
gg> Ideology meaning a body of doctrine that guides an
gg> individual, social movement, institution, or group.
Dividing the terms is an attempt to change the subject. We're talking about
_
_atheist__ideologies__, Greg; ideologies used to support the recognition
of th
ere being no deities, not ideologies held by atheists.
Let's see what you came up with after changing the subject:
gg> Maoism was used as an excuse to kill millions
gg> of people, and incarcerate millions more.
Again, you're trying to change the subject. We're not talking about communism
, totalitarianism, authoritarianism nor fascism. We're not talking
about a political system of economics nor governmental control. We're talking
about atheist ideologies.
Chairman Mao and the communist government under his control did not perform
ty
rannies due to a lack of belief in the thousands of deities posited by humanit
y. They did it for political/socio-economical expedients(sp) just like
early
Catholicism did (and still does: witness dictates for zero birth control
and
political coniving(sp) within the UN for open-ended populations.)
gg> Tell the people killed and incarcerated during the anti-rightist
gg> campaign that their government wasn't ideologically oriented,
gg> that they weren't being killed and incarcerated because they
gg> believed something different. Tell that to the victims of
gg> the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution. Their shades would
gg> spit in your face.
Let's see if you can contrive an atheist ideology which has been used as
a rea
son to kill. So far, you have enumerated a faulty governmental methodology
ba
sed upon economics and have not listed a single tyranny committed for an
athei
stic ideal.
gg> A cult of personality is a cult of personality, whether it
gg> is Jesus, Stalin, Hitler, or Mao.
And we're not talking about individuals with or without beliefs in deities.
We
're talking about atheistical ideologies. I'll accept a war, a crusade,
a bom
bing... whatever you can find performed by an individual because he or she
was
an atheist following the atheist ideologies.
Any at all... I can wait all day if need be.
gg> And if you don't believe that Mao's little red book was
gg> advocating an ideology, then you really are crazy.
Hopefully you'll have realized that changing the subject is not conducive
towa
rds discussing the subject. Try again?
gg> If you don't believe that Stalin's cult of personality was
gg> an ideology then you are whacked! You have no grasp of reality if
gg> you say that China under Mao, and Russia under Stalin weren't
gg> ideological nations. Maybe you ought to look up the word ideology.
Your reading comprehension problems appear to be the cause of your difficulty
in this matter, Greg. Perhaps the fault is with my spelling; or -- more
accur
ate, my inability to spell well?
__Something__ is getting in the way of comprehension of the subject, here.
gg> And you call me a newbie.
That's quite okay, Greg, you'll quickly learn.
FR> And I wonder if you've been programmed to
FR> believe that Hitler was not a Christian.
gg> No, he was, and he was just as bad as Stalin and Mao. But, you have
yet
gg> to come up with one man in American history that was as evil as any
of
gg> those three.
You continue to play "body count" was a method of determining what constitutes
an evil. Quite simply, that doesn't support your contention. The United
Stat
es has performed the _same_ actions as the old Soviet Union either less
than o
r greater than the Soviet Union as a matter of degree.
Playing "body count" is fine, perhaps, yet we're talking about Christian
ideol
ogies being used to foment tyranny around the world. We're also talking
about
atheist ideologies never having been used for such actions.
My claim again: The Christian ideological conglomerate is the single most
des
tructive force -- historically and in contemporary times -- ever to work
its w
ay over the Earth. You are having difficulty finding anything which matches
o
r comes close to the deadly intent of a theistic ideal; that's not unexpected
as there simply is none.
gg> By your argument ("whether it is one or a million, murder is
gg> murder") atheism IS as bad as Christianity. Is this really
gg> the argument you want?
FR> So. What is the atheists ideologies which have been used to murder
FR> this one? And what are the Christian ideologies and mythologies which
FR> have murdered millions?
gg> Well, the atheist ideology of Mao killed 100 million people.
Nope. The communist totalitarian economic/socio-political ideologies under
Ch
airman Mao murdered 100 million people. Chairman Mao and the government
he pl
ayed for did not do so for atheist ideologies. No one said, "I do not believe
in any of the deities posieted by humanity so I must murder 100 millions
peop
le for it."
Deity belief is a faulty justification for murder. A lack of belief in
deitie
s
is not justification of any kind.
Try again?
gg> And the atheist ideology of Stalin killed 30 million.
Nope. The communist totalitarian government under Stalin coupled with his
fas
cist leanings were the motivation behind these tyrannies. Stalin and the
gove
rnment he played for did not do so for atheist ideologies.
His hatred of Nazi-tainted fascism in favor of his own brand drove him to
purg
es of his military head and, in doing so, allowed for his own undoing.
No one
said, "I don't believe in any of the thousands of deities posutlated by
human
ity so I will murder 30 million people because of it."
Try again?
gg> The atheist ideology of Kim Il Sung has killed hundreds of thousands.
I've not heard of this one yet, if it's an attempt to change the subject
into
the socio-political/economical systems of nations and the tyrannies they
fomen
t like the rest of your attempts, that's strike three.
It kind of looks like you're out at the plate, Greg. Yet at least
yo
u went down swinging. Most just stand their with their eyes closed, saying
no
thing as they strike out.
FR> More to the point: When are you going to present a logical comment?
gg> Here's a better question, when are you going to get an education?
How about when you stop trying to change the subject?
gg> Try reading any of the hundreds of books about the attrocities
gg> committed by Stalin and Mao, and read any of the thousands of
gg> books describing the ideology of Stalin and Mao.
Will these "hundreds of books" point out the lack of beliefs in deities
to be
the ideological groundwork for these tyrannies or will these "hundreds of
book
s" delve greatly into the political and economical environment of the times?
If you bother to review these "hundreds of books," you'll find that you
are in
error. Or merely badly mistaken.
gg> Or read the books and articles that define totalitarianism as
gg> authoritarianism plus ideology, then go on to explain how Stalin,
gg> Mao, and Hitler used ideology to control and kill millions of people.
Well, at least you've heard about totalitarianism. Yet it's too bad that
you
seem to equate a lack of deity beliefs with a political or economic system.
~*~ And as you can see, he's simply not up to badgering escapees
while his severed head is sitting on a plate besides him. - Fred Rice
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Marty Leipzig
Sub: OUT OF CONTEXT...
Date: 13 Jan 94 12:27:02
--------
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 068c4684
PID: FM 2.02
rc> ... "141, 142, 143, 144!" she counted grossly.
FR> "Argh! Ack! Greck!" he said heartlessly.
ml> "Whoops. I just dropped a running chain saw." he said offhandedly.
FR> "I just don't give a rat's ass," she said carelessly.
ml> "Just look at all that waste oil swirling down the sewer!",
ml> said Dwayne uncutously.
ml> ... "I'm going to drill me a well.", said Derrick boringly.
"I'm pennyless!" Jesse said unaccountably.
~*~ Are you _sure_ that your appearance is the real reason for
your enforced celibacy? - jonny vee
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Marty Leipzig
Sub: Saturnalia
Date: 13 Jan 94 12:29:25
--------
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 068c4685
PID: FM 2.02
jm> I just noticed on my "Today" file today is "Saturnalia"... Is
jm> there an appropriate greeting like "Happy Saturnalia"? B-})
FR> From what I read, it was common to wake up, yell "festival!" set aside
FR> the toga and go in search of others. All rather like the will of
FR> Landru.
ml> "You are not of the body. You will be absorbed..."
"You are not the body I'm looking for. You will be ignored..."
Wait! I sense a lawgiver!
~*~ A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle - U2
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: James Conwell
Sub: THE FACT AND THEORY OF EVOLUTION
Date: 13 Jan 94 12:32:10
--------
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 068c4686
REPLY: 1:106/7512 85418fa6
PID: FM 2.02
jc> Buy a better dictionary, then restate.
Coming from someone who doesn't know what a mutation is, perhaps you should
bu
y a better education and then jump. Which you would were you
cogn
ative of the dismal lack of education you currently brag about.
There _has_ been some discussion in the secret Satanic forum about whether
you
go outside wearing aluminum foil on your head to keep those deadly mutating
U
V rays from space from doing their worse!
~*~ though we do not accept homosexuals into the church
that does not make us bigots - Dan Lafferty
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Wayne Michaels
Sub: Well folks....
Date: 13 Jan 94 12:35:02
--------
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 068c4687
REPLY: fidonet#1:380/100.1 2d24bfe5
PID: FM 2.02
JS> Oh well with homosexuals pounding on church doors and
JS> screaming to the occupants "we want your children, we
JS> want your children".
wm> And I'll bet the guy arrested for praying was with them, right?
He was screaming, "we want your Creamy Ranch Dressing! We want
your
Creamy Ranch Dressing!" while pounding on the church door with salad thongs.
~*~ The sun is covered in bright green puppy dogs.
Martians have taken over the US government. - Kelsey Bjarnason
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Jesse C. Jones
Sub: RC Query #1 in the 1990's
Date: 13 Jan 94 12:37:52
--------
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 068c4688
PID: FM 2.02
RC> My question is about what you may or may not have. Do you, Jesse,
RC> have evidence that Yahweh is any less dependent on imagination than
is
RC> Ciya?
jcj> I suppose you have also conveniently forgotten that I have told you
jcj> repeatedly over several months now that I will not answer your stupid
jcj> question. Once more: your question is stupid, and I will not answer
jcj> it.
Backwards, Christian soldier, running as you flee
from the light of reason, 'tail 'tucked 'tween your knees.
There's a filk in their some place.
~*~ The stronger the supernatural beliefs, the worse the inhumanity.
- James A. Haught
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Quarrella
Sub: Internet access.
Date: 13 Jan 94 12:40:24
--------
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 068c4689
PID: FM 2.02
QT>> Cavness@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu for those that care. ;)
ph>> Cool -- I'm either patrick@is.rice.edu
FR> Expect Internet mail in a day or so, both of you. You'll be
FR> able to see what mail from FidoNet looks like.
sq> I already sent mail to Questor. Nyah nyah. :)
You will _DIE!_ for your presumption!
~*~ Real facts never contradict faith. - Ron Stringfellow (pentecostal)
Which is why the faithful never know the facts. - David Rice
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Quarrella
Sub: Guess who's cumming on dinner?
Date: 13 Jan 94 12:46:08
--------
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 068c468a
PID: FM 2.02
jcj>> This is _so_ _special_, having you two
jcj>> love birds sharing here before us.
FR> Coming from someone who has no knowledge of what love is.
sq> Since Jesse has been presented with two people who don't
sq> believe in his deity, he has to figure out where that
sq> "love" in "love birds" originates.
Oh, man. The clown thought that singing birds were singing because they
were
happy! It is no surprize to see him incapable of knowing what love is.
sq> Am I to assume that his deity makes us do things anyways?
Everyone is controlled by his deities.
~*~ When you die, it doesn't just disappear... that'd be contrary
to physics! - Ariadne
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Quarrella
Sub: Illinois Fundamentalist
Date: 13 Jan 94 12:50:47
--------
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 068c468b
PID: FM 2.02
FR> The court declined to review a lower court's ruling
FR> that the woman should not be forced to submit to surgery in
FR> a case that pitted the rights of the woman, referred to in
FR> court as "Mother Doe," against those of her fetus.
sq> I wonder how many Fundies (such as Randall Terry) fail
sq> to realize that this course sets a little precedent that
sq> may come back to haunt them.
If the child dies, it's the will of their deities. If the child is horribly
d
ismembered and mentally a vegetable, it's the will of their deities. If
the c
hild is physically and mentally okay, it is the will of their deities.
I don't see how a believer in deities could _fail_ to justify their creations.
sq> Frankly, I hope the mother drops dead and that the fetus survives.
We can hope.
sq> ... California foreplay: "Mom? Is dad asleep yet?"
Oh! You've been reading lies about Hollywood parties!
~*~ Deal with it, pink boy. - Crow T. Robot
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Quarrella
Sub: Monkey business
Date: 13 Jan 94 12:52:24
--------
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 068c468c
PID: FM 2.02
FR> She: "Oh, I have a good science background. I'm a nursing
FR> major at [a local junior college]."
FR> She: "Yes, but she's not a monkey!"
sq> This is why I would keep a revolver under
sq> my pillow if I were ever hospitalized. :)
"Now Mister Quarrella, you simply must let
go of the gun so that the doctor may examine
your broken arm."
~*~ A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely
rearanging their prejudices. - David Rice, HolySmoke
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Quarrella
Sub: Well folks....
Date: 13 Jan 94 12:58:51
--------
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 068c468d
PID: FM 2.02
JS> Yes, once a homosexual once tried to rape me in the Army years ago.
sq> Liar. Go away. Your absurd claims don't wash.
Well, a little wishful thinking for Jesus.
JS> Oh well with homosexuals pounding on church doors and
JS> screaming to the occupants "we want your children, we
JS> want your children".
sq> You really are a sick motherfucking asshole, aren't you?
It was his sister, as I recall. }:-}
sq> Frankly, Joe, I think that while you're blocking the
sq> doors from homosexuals getting INTO your churches, you
sq> should turn around and keep a careful eye on the
sq> ministers behind you.
That was my comment as well, There is a very easy way for homos to gain
entry
into a church -- become the master of that church.
Also, every church has variety in their congregation.
sq> ... "Is this sodomy?" asked Tom, half in Ernest.
Stop it!
"Is this called 'rimming?'" asked Tom, tounge in cheek.
~*~ Must go, Elvis wants to use the phone. - Paul Feonic
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Comrade Fredric
To: Derek Clayton
Sub: True colors
Date: 13 Jan 94 13:19:35
--------
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 068c468e
REPLY: 1:221/279.8 2d242105
PID: FM 2.02
CF> Where are the girls in grass dresses?
CF> Where are the palm trees?
CF> They said there would be palm trees and girls.
dc> Another satisfied customer of Air Gulag!
Are there to be no rye bread, vodka, girls, and palm-trees here?
My glorious leaders would never decieve me so!
CF> This attempt to code morality for this generation and all those which
CF> follow in an unmoving and unyielding message carved in slate is what
I
CF> often wonder is what seculars are 'ultimatly' fighting against when
CF> they debunk a Christian or defend their victims.
dc> The progress of humanity, much like science, has been straining against
dc> the shackles of religion since early man first uttered the word "god".
I wonder if there are scholarly speculations into what humanity might have
ach
ieved had it never invented the belief in deities. I would expect the populat
ion would have overwhelmed the planet by now had deities not be created
as an
excuse to kill.
dc> The tragedy is that we are doing it to ourselves with open eyes that
are
dc> blind to the consequences. When I see my parents, siblings, and friends
dc> submitting themselves to their imaginary god I cannot, as Nietszche
dc> said, avoid a sigh. We know better.
It's the taking of innocent lives and innocent minds that I object to.
I have
little difficulty with adults setting aside reason and rational thought.
dc> Religion has tainted all of humanity. Religion encourages complacency,
dc> submission, and dependence. Religion discourages curiousity, ambition,
dc> and self-reliance. This is ultimately why I cannot keep my mouth shut
dc> to the religious lies.
And the demands for a deadly 'morality' of others tops the list.
CF> Enforced compliance to dogma and myth may well be window
CF> dressing for the bitter center which seeks only to dictate
CF> others morality for all time.
dc> The dictation of morality is only the means to give the religious
dc> power-whores control over their complacent sheep.
It is an attempt to control the unaffected, though, as well as the infected.
dc> Those in control of religion couldn't give a shit
dc> about morality, or creating a better world.
As we've seen. When Jimmy Swaggart is still deified after his exposures,
I th
ink we can pretty much safely conclude that there is a problem.
dc> They only care that their sheep obey without question and
dc> continue sending in the cheques. The clergy of today are
dc> fat from feeding on the fear and insecurities of humanity.
Welcome to the Promethian Flaw in humanity.
~*~ Is it getting better? Or do you feel the same?
Will it make it easier on you? Now you got someone to blame? - U2
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Dominic Bryan
Sub: HOMOSEXUALITY IS INTRINSICALLY EVIL
Date: 13 Jan 94 13:23:34
--------
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 068c468f
REPLY: 3:711/927.0 2d2180b4
PID: FM 2.02
db> Homosexual acts are intrinsically evil.
What a lovely hatred Christianity foments in otherwise irrational people.
~*~ Once more: your question is stupid, and I will not answer it.
- Jesse C. Jones
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Marilyn Burge
To: John Musselwhite
Sub: Question for the Better Educated
Date: 07 Jan 94 16:21:03
--------
EID:3c75 1c2782a0
MSGID: 1:105/40.3 7327e2ff
REPLY: 1:134/67.0 2d2bab9e
On (05 Jan 94) John Musselwhite wrote to Marilyn Burge...
JM> medical profession will confirm that.
No, that's not it. It was specifically some theoretical physics thing.
... Deja Mooo.... knowing you've heard this bull before...
--- PPoint 1.76
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--------
From: Marilyn Burge
To: Steve Quarrella
Sub: JESUS SAYINGS?
Date: 07 Jan 94 16:39:42
--------
EID:eab6 1c2784e0
MSGID: 1:105/40.3 2b6fb861
On (05 Jan 94) Steve Quarrella wrote to John Musselwhite...
SQ> Hwaet, John!
SQ>
SQ> 26 Dec 93, dixit John Musselwhite ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>
SQ> MG>>> tommorow by the Macmillian Publishing Co. It's called "The
SQ> MG>>> Five Gospels: What Did Jesus Really Say?"
SQ> JM> I've been looking for it and have read some reviews and
SQ> JM> articles as well. It should be quite interesting!
SQ>
SQ> Give us some comments after you've finished, eh?
I found a copy of it at Powell's, and I'm reading it now.
... Me knew spell chucker work grate! Knead Gramma Chicken
--- PPoint 1.76
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--------
From: Marilyn Burge
To: John Musselwhite
Sub: Fact vs. Faith
Date: 07 Jan 94 16:54:22
--------
EID:c1e2 1c2786c0
MSGID: 1:105/40.3 add862f4
REPLY: 1:134/67.0 2d2bab9a
On (05 Jan 94) John Musselwhite wrote to Joe Schultz...
JM> as reviews (I have one here in front of me right now).
JM>
JM> JS> have paid $100 for it. The book will not "convert" me. It will
JM> merely
JM>
JM> It'll end up being $50 here, probably... These
JM> scholar's
JM> editions will break me yet!
I think it sez $37.50 in Canada on the dust cover of my copy. ;-)
... My three-finger response for tough questions: Ctrl-Alt-Del
--- PPoint 1.76
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--------
From: John Musselwhite
To: Steve Bedard
Sub: CIRCULAR...
Date: 05 Jan 94 10:19:00
--------
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MSGID: 1:374/1 2d2a9414
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Hi Steve...
-=> Quoting Steve Bedard to Don Martin <=-
SB> "Dear children, this is the last hour; and as you have heard that the
SB> antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come. This is
SB> how we know it is the last hour." 1 John 2:18
If John, Jesus and many others believed the end of the world was going
to happen in their lifetimes, why didn't it? John uses "...it is the
last hour", and Jesus said his would be the last generation. It didn't
happen, Steve... The anti-christ is irrelevant. Their prophecies did
not come to pass so why should they be believed?
John
... The end is ne$@&*^@#% NO CARRIER
... God so loved the world that He made up His mind to damn most of it.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
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From: John Musselwhite
To: Joe Schultz
Sub: FACT VS. FAITH
Date: 05 Jan 94 10:49:00
--------
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MSGID: 1:374/1 2d2a9b1c
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 2d2bab9a
Hi Joe...
-=> Quoting Joe Schultz to Derek Clayton <=-
JS> but I continue to study theological subjects; yesterday I purchased
a
JS> book by the title of "The Five Gospels", put out by the Fellows of the
JS> Jesus Seminar. The damn thing cost $30 but I don't care... I would
I'm STILL waiting for it to hit here in Canada... I've heard so much
about it including in-depth interviews with some of the authors as wel
l
as reviews (I have one here in front of me right now).
JS> have paid $100 for it. The book will not "convert" me. It will merely
It'll end up being $50 here, probably... These scholar's
editions will break me yet!
Let us know what you think of it...
John
... ... "Heaven for Climate; Hell for company" (Mark Twain)
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From: John Musselwhite
To: Steve Bedard
Sub: MAYBE YOU CAN TELL ME
Date: 05 Jan 94 11:50:00
--------
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MSGID: 1:134/67.0 2d2bab9b
Hi Steve...
-=> Quoting Steve Bedard to Lonnie Coleman <=-
SB> Actually, many athiests no longer use B.C. or A.D., and have replaced
SB> them with B.C.E. and C.E. (correct me if I am wrong, you guys).
It should read: "Most scholars no longer use..." actually. They are
universal terms which do not hold religious bias as scholars come from
ALL religions (or none). The term "Common Era" is at least fair to
everyone as it indicates the real origins of our dating system, not th
e
Christian perversion. That's beside the fact you spelled "atheist"
wrong yet again!
SB> However, it would not surprise me if a new dating system starts as
the
SB> world becomes more secular.
The new dating system has either already begun, probably the atomic
era, or is about to begin. As I mentioned before, the next era will
probably begin with the "Terran Diaspora" expected (at least by me)
within the next century and possibly within my own lifetime.
LC>Maranatha!
Have you guys joined the "Friends of Martin Riley" yet? B-})
John
... "Beam me up, Scotty. There's no intelligent life here."
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
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From: John Musselwhite
To: Marilyn Burge
Sub: QUESTION FOR THE BETTER EDUCAT
Date: 05 Jan 94 13:28:00
--------
EID:e381 1c256b80
50
MSGID: 1:374/1 2d2ac060
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 2d2bab9e
Hi Marilyn...
-=> Quoting Marilyn Burge to All <=-
MB> A year or so ago I attended a lecture given by a fellow who had held
MB> a chair in theoretical physics at Oxford, resigned that, and got a
MB> second doctorate in theology. He now hold a chair at Oxford in
MB> theology. He said that the virgin birth was a physical possibility
and
MB> cited some law of physics to "show" how it was possible. Is there
MB> somebody in this conference who would like to hazard a guess which
MB> physical law he invoked to justify his absurdity? I've been wracking
I don't know about what "law of physics" would be involved, but it is
technically possible for a virgo intacta female to be inseminated by
ejaculate during heavy petting sessions without penetration, thus
resulting in a technically "virgin birth". I'm sure someone in the
medical profession will confirm that.
John
... Great procastination tagline, maybe I'll steal it tomorrow...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
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From: John Musselwhite
To: Marty Leipzig
Sub: PALUXY REVISITED...
Date: 05 Jan 94 21:33:00
--------
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MSGID: 1:374/1 2d2b320c
MSGID: 1:134/67.0 2d2bab9f
Hi Marty...
I'm just watching "In Search Of..." with Leonard Nimoy and they are
visiting Paluxy... Good shots of creationists digging around trying to
find "mantracks". According to the story it's now in an area called
"Dinosaur State Park". Have you heard of this? Did they really make a
state park out of it?
At least they mention that some of them are fakes. All in all, althoug
h
they devoted a fair amount of time to Gish and Morris and even
interviewed them and let them make fools of themselves (IMHO) they did
offer REAL scientists points of view and let them discuss the situatio
n
as well. I liked the phrase one scientist (I forget his name already)
used: " The only evidence of humans and dinosaurs living together is i
n
cartoons." He also mentioned he'd love to take a look at Paluxy, but t
o
his knowledge no scientists have been invited to analyse them.
It was better than something CBS might have done anyway...
John
... We learn from history that we do not learn from history.
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: Marty Leipzig
Sub: TAG: BIBLE_SCIENCE WAS UPDATED.
Date: 05 Jan 94 10:00:00
--------
EID:9d92 1c255000
MSGID: 1:374/1 2d2a8fa0
PID: SX4.00P/5.00M1 BT026
* Original: FROM..... EchoList Announcer (1:1/201@fidonet.org)
* Original: TO....... All (1:124/9005)
* Original: FORUM.... ECHO_REQ
* Forwarded by Silver Xpress
* Additional Comments by Steve Quarrella (1:124/9005)
The following reflects the current entry in The International EchoList databas
e
on 2-Jan-94 7:45:13 pm
Tagname: BIBLE_SCIENCE Area Key: BBLSCNC
Title: Bible Science including Creation Science
Description: True Science supports the Biblical account of creation.
Evolution and other such theories are merely unproven
theories accepted by faith of those deceived thereby.
Origin:
Distribution:
Gateways: PRIME Network
# Nodes: Volume: Rule File:
Flags:
Moderators: Steve Winter, 1:18/98@fidonet.org
Steve Winter, 98:98/1
Seen by:
Paths:
Date added: 16-May-93
Last changed: 2-Jan-94 Changed by: Steve Winter, 1:18/98@fidonet.org
-- Steve Quarrella Has Additional Comments --
Hey, get in there!
... Friends don't let friends use Xmodem.
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: David Rice
Sub: CHRISTMAS CARD
Date: 05 Jan 94 10:39:00
--------
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PID: SX4.00P/5.00M1 BT026
Hwaet, David!
4 Jan 94, dixit David Rice ad Steve Quarrella:
DR> "Par for the course" in California (men in skirts). What we
DR> -DON'T- see around here very often are women in skirts, more's
DR> the bitty.
Hmm...perhaps they are all escorted home from work when they wear their
skirts?
SQ>> So where do I get one with a basket-hilt?
DR> You have to custom-order it, I suspect.
From whom? Museum Replicas had one for a while, but it's no longer in
their catalog (I could care less if it's a "replica"...it's not like I
plan to use it. :).
DR> Got $500 or $600 laying around you're not using?!
Always.
DR> We had someone here who was fired and escorted out of the
DR> building because he was antisocial and violent.
Too bad the U.S. Postal Service doesn't do this more often. :-/
... Pity the poor corpuscle, for he labors in vein.
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: David Rice
Sub: USA VS. USSR IN "MORALITY"
Date: 05 Jan 94 10:41:00
--------
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PID: SX4.00P/5.00M1 BT026
Hwaet, David!
4 Jan 94, dixit David Rice ad All:
DR> RADIATION OUTRAGE. U.S. government used people as nuclear
DR> guinea pigs. By Deirdre Griswold
I'm going to be interested to see Jesse's "Is not!" reply to this.
... Peter Butterworth fans, unite!
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: Starwyn
Sub: HEY
Date: 05 Jan 94 10:44:00
--------
EID:243b 1c255580
4/1
MSGID: 1:374/1 2d2a99f0
PID: SX4.00P/5.00M1 BT026
Hwaet, Starwyn!
2 Jan 94, dixit Starwyn ad Steve Quarrella:
S> Prolly wouldn't work for me, cuz I don't hate the fundies, I
"No, we don't hate the sinner...just the sin"... I bet you'd
STILL have fun with Doom. :)
S> Jesse is free to ask anytime. I abide by my own set of ethics,
S> and the ones taught to me by my teacher in the past.
No doubt we'll get the suggestions of those learned ethics being based
in Christian ethics (which is true, in my case), while at the same time
those who make such suggestions will simply ignore the fact that morality
is not the sole province of Christianity (Double entendre alert....).
S> I ain't perfect, but I'm honest.
Oh, how hateful! :)
... If it ain't broke yet, let me have a shot at it.
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00P BT026
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: Starwyn
Sub: THE XTIAN FRAUD CALLED PILTDOWN MAN
Date: 05 Jan 94 10:47:00
--------
EID:33fa 1c2555e0
Y: 374/1 12 27 31 81 1000 3615/50
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PID: SX4.00P/5.00M1 BT026
Hwaet, Starwyn!
2 Jan 94, dixit Starwyn ad Steve Quarrella:
S> Well, I was spared that part anyway...but tonight I found out
S> that my Hag-In-Law is in California for a visit and has
ROFL! You picked up on my term! :)
S> contacted my sister and having breakfast tomorrow morning.
S> (Shudder...they've never met) Let me clue you in here---My HIL
S> is a Polly-Anna from the word GO. Even spells out the word poop
S> rather than say it out loud (I'm not joking here)...
Ask my wife about some curious Mormon practices. Pretty sure she told me
that "h e double-toothpick" is rampant there in Utah. It's like the Far
Side cartoon with the dog wondering to itself "Why are they spelling
food instead of just saying it?" :)
s> this woman
S> sent me potatoe chips for Xmas and mac and cheese last year.
Whoa, big spender!
S> waers large costume jewelry and floral patterned clothes with
S> fake mink coats and boots. Got the picture set in your head?
Have you ever seen WOMEN ON THE VERGE OF A NERVOUS BREAKDOWN? Sounds like
one of the characters therein.
S> My skin is cold and clammy at the thought of it all. I think my
S> voice mail will be picking up the phone tomorrow....(yeah, I'll
S> admit it...I'm chicken.)
We screen our calls...have no fear. :)
... Illiterate? Write for FREE help.
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: Marilyn Burge
Sub: CHRISTMAS CARD
Date: 05 Jan 94 10:50:00
--------
EID:23f5 1c255640
27 31 81 1000 3615/50
MSGID: 1:374/1 2d2a9b58
PID: SX4.00P/5.00M1 BT026
Hwaet, Marilyn!
31 Dec 93, dixit Marilyn Burge ad Steve Quarrella:
MB> The important thing to remember is that he was only there
MB> because the State requires it.
I should have done the ceremony m'self (Can one do that?). "Do you, Steve,
take Suzy" "Why yes, I do" "OK, you're hitched. May Dopefish not pee in your wheaties."
MB> your hearts, and the incantations that took place have nothing
MB> to do with the validity of the marriage, or in its durability.
It would have been nice, though, if he had picked up on the LIFE OF BRIAN
reference. I rather hoped he would. :)
MB> I would think that rather than pocketing the $25 you could
MB> have sold tickets and parlayed it into much dinero, had he
MB> gone into holy roller mode. 8-)
Hey, that was five slabs of prime rib... :)
MB> ... Deja Mooo.... knowing you've heard this bull before...
Now THAT is good. :)
... To whom the gods destroy, they first teach Windows.
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: Marilyn Burge
Sub: BACKWARDS MASKING
Date: 05 Jan 94 10:52:00
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MSGID: 1:374/1 2d2a9bd0
PID: SX4.00P/5.00M1 BT026
Hwaet, Marilyn!
31 Dec 93, dixit Marilyn Burge ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> So tell me the details on this IRS thing...why is the IRS just now
SQ>> becoming interested in his shenanigans?
We can but hope that the IRS really cracks down on these people, with some
serious documentation so that they can't holler "Persecution!"
MB> I looked through all the unbundled old papers we have, and I
MB> couldn't find the article. As best I can remember, part of
MB> the charges involved snookering the networks into free airtime
MB> under the public service policy when, in fact, he used the
MB> time to further his political ambitions.
Ah, good. That's what I thought it was. Although I haven't watched Pat
in
about a year, I remember watching him during his so-called presidential
bid, wondering how he was getting away with politicking with all that
free airtime. I hope he coughs up a lot of bucks...
... You don't go to Denny's: You end up there.
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: Marilyn Burge
Sub: FACT VS. FAITH
Date: 05 Jan 94 11:06:00
--------
EID:a9ca 1c2558c0
MSGID: 1:374/1 2d2a9f18
PID: SX4.00P/5.00M1 BT026
Hwaet, Marilyn!
1 Jan 94, dixit Marilyn Burge ad Steve Bedard:
MB> ... My mind is my own church. THAT is what I'll use. Thomas
MB> Paine
Didn't _I_ say "THAT is what I'll use."? Paine gets the credit for the
first sentence. :)
... Try the new Ranch Davidian dressing: Fifteen nuts and spices.
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: Marty Leipzig
Sub: MONKEY WRENCHING
Date: 05 Jan 94 13:36:00
--------
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PID: SX4.00P/5.00M1 BT026
Hwaet, Marty!
2 Jan 94, dixit Marty Leipzig ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> Hwaet, Marty!
ML> Fweet! You and your own selves.
Actually, it should be an f > h change (which is well documented in the
development of Spanish. OSp. "fazer", ModSp "hacer")
SQ>> Have you really had people mess with your shit because they read his
SQ>> books?
ML> It would seem so. I really roared at Hayduke's books until
ML> some of that same shit he described started happening to my
ML> locations.
There's some shit in there that comes out of MY repertoire, in fact, but
none of the really destructive sense. I'm more of a "Play the mark off
against another mark" person, with the only problem with that is that I
generally don't get to see the fireworks. :) Vandalism is out.
ML> I posted large day-glow signs all around warning "DANGER!
ML> ELECTROCUTION HAZARD! FOR CHRIST'S SAKE, STAY THE FUCK
ML> AWAY!" (That's really what they said. My sign painter has
So after the guy got burned, did you ask his attorney why his client ignored
the sign and touched the set-up anyways?
... "I don't need your war machines, I don't need your ghetto scenes."
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: Robert Curry
Sub: HOMOSEXUALITY IS DIFFERENT
Date: 05 Jan 94 13:37:00
--------
EID:2a11 1c256ca0
374/1
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PID: SX4.00P/5.00M1 BT026
Hwaet, Robert!
2 Jan 94, dixit Robert Curry ad Dominic Bryan:
RC> Relatively uncommon, perhaps, but quite natural. You might say
RC> with just as little sense that left-handed acts are "unnatural."
Indeed...they're downright sinister. ;-)
... Drink Canada Dry! Maybe you can't, but it's fun trying!
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: Martin Goldberg
Sub: ATHEISTS DO GOOD
Date: 05 Jan 94 13:40:00
--------
EID:0c3b 1c256d00
BY: 374/1 12 17 31 38 48 73 88 1000 3615/50
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PID: SX4.00P/5.00M1 BT026
Hwaet, Martin!
2 Jan 94, dixit Martin Goldberg ad Jesse C. Jones:
MG> ten per cent of my time, but I am involved in youth oriented
MG> services.
The same youth-oriented services that pay homage to his deity in their
oath? I haven't been active in several years, but I spent much of my time
as an Assistant Scoutmaster contributing towards their cause.
... 750 megahertz...or bust!
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: Martin Goldberg
Sub: THE END IS NEAR
Date: 05 Jan 94 13:42:00
--------
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Hwaet, Martin!
2 Jan 94, dixit Martin Goldberg ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> I didn't see it either. Weird. In any event, I'm slowly
SQ>> changing my SQUISH.CFG to strip the private flag from all
SQ>> inbound echomail. :)
Frankly, I thought that Maximus would strip the private flag in a
"Public Only" area. It seems to just ignore it. Squish, on the other
hand, is faithfully stripping private flags...I just haven't had a chance
to
set it up for each of my message areas.
... "Spiritus sanctus, anno anno mundi..."
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00P BT026
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: Martin Goldberg
Sub: BACK IN THE USSR
Date: 05 Jan 94 13:43:00
--------
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Hwaet, Martin!
2 Jan 94, dixit Martin Goldberg ad Steve Quarrella:
MG> You may be interested to know that Mindless Chatter (Worst Echo
MG> in Fidonet ) has an annual get togther and will be here
MG> this summer.
We've been invited to the ByteBrothers gathering up in Wichita in May...they
seem to LOVE Randall Terry...maybe he'll come back.
MG> the only consensus that I can get is that they want to see Dealy Plaza.
Maybe they'll all film their own death scenes or something. :)
... Valencia: Served in an iron skillet because it's dangerous.
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: John Musselwhite
Sub: HEY
Date: 05 Jan 94 13:45:00
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Hwaet, John!
1 Jan 94, dixit John Musselwhite ad Suzy Quarrella:
-=>> Quoting Suzy Quarrella to Starwyn <=-
JM> Congratulations! This is the first post I've seen with
JM> your new name... how does it fit? B-})
Well damned if I can find a copy of Creedence Clearwater Revival's
CHRONICLE, now that I really need it. [Think about it for a second.
First track. :) ]
SQ>> your hair. I saw your .GIF and I don't want Steve getting any ideas.
JM> So... when do we see YOUR GIF?
I'll have to bring some photos tomorrow night when I see Liar Marty and
Liar Lou Dripkin. :)
... COFFEE.CUP empty: Operator shelled out to kitchen
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: Styx Allum
Sub: MANSON FINDS THE LORD GOD
Date: 05 Jan 94 13:56:00
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Hwaet, Styx!
26 Dec 93, dixit Styx Allum ad Steve Quarrella:
>> Correction: Ritchie Blackmore is God. :)
SA> Blasphemy! Vernon Reid is the Devil,
Hardly. If only he were that good.
SA> and Steve Vai is the guitar god. (Not a bad combo, eh?)
Nope. Blackmore. "My god's better than your god, my god's better
than yours..."
SA> (Satriani is merely a good impersonator)
He's impersonating Ritchie Blackmore right now, in fact, on the last leg
of Purple's European tour. Shame.
SA> * Origin: Neil Peart is the god of percussion. (1:152/20)
Nope. Keith Moon. :)
... Incest is a game the whole family can play.
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: Styx Allum
Sub: NUN BETTER
Date: 05 Jan 94 14:08:00
--------
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Hwaet, Styx!
1 Jan 94, dixit Styx Allum ad Starwyn:
SA> Okay, let's get this year off to a good start with a bad joke:
SA> Four nuns died in a car crash.
I'll call and raise your joke:
Three nuns reached the pearly gates after death. St. Peter decided that
they weren't ready to pass into Heaven, but he said "I'll send you back
as
any person of your choosing." The first nun indicated that she wanted to
go back as Marilyn Monroe. St. Peter went into the back room, and quickly
returned. "OK, you're going back as Marilyn Monroe." , she was
gone.
The second nun indicated that she wanted to go back as Greta Garbo.
St. Peter again disappeared to look up the stats on Greta Garbo, and again,
he returned after a short time and said "OK, I found Greta Garbo... you're
off."
The third nun indicated that she wanted to go back as Sarah Pippeleen.
St.
Peter once again vanished, but this time, he didn't reappear right away.
The third nun wondered if she had been forgotten, when Peter finally appeared
with a semi-irritated look on his face.
"Sorry, sister...that was the SAHARA PIPELINE that hundreds of men laid
in
just a few weeks."
... Vultures only fly with carrion luggage.
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00P BT026
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: Dan Sereduick
Sub: TAG: BIBLE_NEWS WAS UPDATED.
Date: 05 Jan 94 14:09:00
--------
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Hwaet, Dan!
2 Jan 94, dixit Dan Sereduick ad Steve Quarrella:
DS> Hehhehe...they probably think the messages come "straight from
DS> the lord"... heheh...
Oh, they DO come from "the lord", but not the same lord that they might
think... :-\
... In memory of Keith Moon.
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: Joshua Lee
Sub: HEY
Date: 05 Jan 94 14:11:00
--------
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Hey, where the hell have YOU been? :)
... Finder: Windows with bullet-proof glass.
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: Marilyn Burge
Sub: FACT VS. FAITH
Date: 05 Jan 94 14:14:00
--------
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50
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Hwaet, Marilyn!
2 Jan 94, dixit Marilyn Burge ad Steve Quarrella:
SQ>> This is a straw man. Any atheist on this forum is going to ask for
SQ>> a visit from your God as evidence to your testimony, and the visit
SQ>> never comes.
Is this so difficult? All we hear in return is "Pray harder! He'll come!"
Hail, hail, fire and snow, call the angel, we will go....
MB> Do I hear an echo in here? or is his statement an exact
MB> paraphrase of what Christian Soldier told me? Too bad these
MB> guys can't at least be original with their threats. 8-(
There's a collective "unconsciousness" in there all right.
SQ>> RB> While there are of course aspects of God which are beyond our
SQ>> RB> comprehesion at this time,
SQ>> Such as?
MB> The whole damned thing, Steve, the whole damned thing. . . .
Such as how someone will so eagerly buy the whole lollipop. Look at
Steve Bedard and his "I couldn't resist any longer, so I gave in". That's
simply incomprehensible to me.
SQ>> one of these three and ONLY these three. What about other
SQ>> possibilities, such as a historical Jesus having been doctored up by
SQ>> past mythology and political struggles through the centuries?
MB> Bite your tongue!!!!
Oh, I know! I'm hateful!
... Detroit: Where the weak are killed and eaten.
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: John Musselwhite
Sub: JESUS SAYINGS?
Date: 05 Jan 94 14:16:00
--------
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Hwaet, John!
26 Dec 93, dixit John Musselwhite ad Steve Quarrella:
MG>>> tommorow by the Macmillian Publishing Co. It's called "The
MG>>> Five Gospels: What Did Jesus Really Say?"
JM> I've been looking for it and have read some reviews and
JM> articles as well. It should be quite interesting!
Give us some comments after you've finished, eh?
... My parents looted L.A. and all I got was this stupid tagline.
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00P BT026
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: Patrick Humphrey
Sub: FACT VS. FAITH
Date: 05 Jan 94 14:17:00
--------
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Hwaet, Patrick!
3 Jan 94, dixit Patrick Humphrey ad Rob Bamford:
PH> ... G'day, mate...throw another fundy on the barbie!
Hee hee hee.
... Would a bullfighter with acne have Oil of Ole'?
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: Lonnie Coleman
Sub: TRIVIAL THINGS
Date: 05 Jan 94 14:18:00
--------
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Hwaet, Lonnie!
3 Jan 94, dixit Lonnie Coleman ad Robert Curry:
->> As the Gregorian calendar has come into common international usage,
->> the year has become referred to as 1993 C.E. (year 1993 of the Common
->> Era). But does it really matter? What do you call the days of the
LC> 1st... 2nd... 3rd... 4th... 5th... 6th... and Sabbath
You're Portuguese, then?
You've evaded the question. Why is it that the Fundamentalist will ask
the serious question, and then when answered, become all smiles and laughs
when he is asked a serious question in return?
... "I've Been Working on the Railroad": Dinah WHO?
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00P BT026
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From: Steve Quarrella
To: Jesse C. jones
Sub: GUESS WHO'S COMING TO DINNER?
Date: 05 Jan 94 14:35:00
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3 Jan 94, dixit Jesse C. Jones ad Suzy Quarrella:
SQ>> My family has NEVER asked Steve about his beliefs.
This will be an interesting conversation when it finally happens.
JC> your family was Mormon. Steve has only referred to them
JC> as Christians, who reject him because he does not believe
JC> in their God.
No, you weren't reading. They don't know that I'm not a Catholic, for
example. Simply because I do not subscribe to THEIR particular version
of
Christianity is part of the problem (also that my wife does not subscribe
is a matter of discussion). I'm going to be interested, now that we're
married, as to what kind of rationalization will be made for attempts to
control our sexual behaviour.
JC> I know very little about Mormonism, but my
JC> impression is that it is narrow-minded.
When you claim that someone has to be a member of your club to be
joyful or thankful, then you are as narrow-minded as they.
SQ>> Why should I
SQ>> deprive myself of a wonderful life with him becaue of a few small
SQ>> differences?
JC> Well, experts on marital relationships say that religious
JC> differences are usually either resolved by abandoning
JC> religious faith, or tear apart the marriage.
Frankly, I don't give a shit about Suzy's religious beliefs, and am unaware
of what they are, for the most part. Fighting over such a stupid thing
as
religion or lack thereof is ridiculous...have you ever heard of Belfast
or the Middle East?
You really did fail to answer the question, or at least you failed to
understand it. The point is "Why should Suzy not marry the person she loves
because he's not a member of the cult to which her family belongs?" They
would prefer that she marry some Mormon guy who doesn't give a shit about
her rather than have her marry me, some "heathen" who DOES care." It's
like
my old Italian aunts saying "You'll marry a nice Italian girl someday",
as
if that "Italian" made everything alright (in fact, my "wife" in my high
school marriage course was Italian...didn't care for her at all).
SQ>> I used to be rather intolerant and inflexible because of my religion.
JC> I'm happy for you that you overcame that.
Watch and learn.
SQ>> I felt that
SQ>> other people were "bad" just because they didn't belong to my faith.
Rather like "You cannot be truly happy without my deity", mayhaps?
JC> Very true, and an important lesson to learn, I agree.
Watch and learn.
JC> I even acknowledge that there are atheists who are "good
JC> people."
Now it's up to you to figure out WHY. Can you do it without invoking
mysticism and quotes from yellowed books?
JC> The primary definition of "heathen" in the OAD is, "a
JC> person who is not a believer in any of the world's chief
JC> religions."
Playing dictionary games like this gets you nowhere. Care to explain to
me
your use of "diabolic", from a few posts back? Not only can I give you
the dictionary usage, but I can tell you the evolution of the word.
SQ>> like my posts before, you probably won't respond. Is
SQ>> it because you can't make a good argument for your claims?
A little kick there, I think.
JC> My appearing in this conference is like running through a
JC> gauntlet. Everyone wants to take a shot at me.
Because, by uttering such lunacies as "Atheists are unable to be thankful",
you not only don a large target, but also put a "Kick me" sign on your
back. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime (Since you seem to
enjoy quotes so much.).
... Wesley Crusher, please report to airlock five!
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00P BT026
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--------
From: Steve Quarrella
To: John Musselwhite
Sub: DIVERS WEIGHTS
Date: 05 Jan 94 15:35:00
--------
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Hwaet, John!
1 Jan 94, dixit John Musselwhite ad All:
JM> along to his B.I.L.. The quote was Deuteronomy 25:13 which
JM> states in the KJV that "Thou shalt not carry divers weights
JM> in your bag" (or something similar... I'd have to look it
Have you ever seen the one Red Dwarf episode where Rimmer explains that
his
family were Seventh Day Advent Hoppists, because there was a typo in their
Bible to the effect of "Faith, hop, and charity...and the greatest of these
is hop". Rimmer goes on to tell how he and his family had to spend Sunday
hopping around because of the dictums of one little book. :)
... The lab called...your brain is ready.
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From: Marshall Shapiro
To: Marilyn Burge
Sub: Religon
Date: 07 Jan 94 10:39:11
--------
EID:9cf4 1c2754e0
MSGID: 1:250/636@fidonet.org 138f1f90
MB* "By their fruits ye shall know them."
I totally agree. I know someone who doesn't have the personality of a
grape and has the disposition of a lemon. I know someone else who's a
real peach and has a plum job.
,\\
* 1st 1.01 #1024 * If you knew sushi like I know sushi ...
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'e'
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From: C. J. Henshaw
To: All
Sub: The bullshit never stops on the PRIME network
Date: 06 Jan 94 15:21:00
--------
EID:c04d 1c267aa0
MSGID: 1:250/820 2d2c731e
Please spread this info around. Thanks!!
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Moderator/founder HOLY_BILE (The Wholly Stupidity Echo)
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=
WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING
WARNIN
G
This is a work of fiction. Any resembelence between to people or events
past
or present is purly coincedental.
WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING WARNING
WARNIN
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C. J.
--- GEcho 1.00
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--------
From: jonny vee
To: Steve Quarrella
Sub: Maybe You Can Tell Me
Date: 07 Jan 94 02:51:00
--------
EID:f8d6 1c271660
MSGID: 1:215/606@Fido 0382214e
PID: FM 2.02
> jv> I was wondering who would be stepping onto the chopping block
> jv> now that Stewart Harris, Bill Wolff, and Ron Strangefellow have
> jv> faded away.
> Nature abhors a vacuum,
That's why even technopagan witches ride brooms.
> and there will be plenty of new people
> donning the
> same old clown suit to replace them, rest assured. Looks like Marty
> Leipzig
> has caught himself a live one in the form of James Conwell.
I was thinking that Steve Bedard was the fresh meat this time, but I guess
he'
s already been around for a while. ANd then we appear to have a few who
left
before but have come back for more, as well as a few last fading dribblings
fr
om some who can't seem to make a clean break.
Does any of this remind you of addictive behavior? Perhaps some psych grad
st
udents should be invited to come in here and do theses on fundies who are
addi
cted to The 'Smoke. When they write books about it, we can quote them here
an
d speculate on the true identities of the case histories (One of the more
curi
ous was the one we'll call "Howard"....).
> jv> Looks like this little christian soldier is going
> jv> to be a real warrior for the lord, don't you think?
> "When the going gets tough, the tough go and have a little cry in the
> corner."
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
--Hunter Thompson
jv
--- GEcho 1.00
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From: jonny vee
To: Brian Newman
Sub: True colors
Date: 07 Jan 94 15:38:00
--------
EID:7510 1c277cc0
MSGID: 1:215/606@Fido 038f40f8
REPLY: 1:105/69.0 2d2c3b84
PID: FM 2.02
> DR> I believe that they actually -DO- have our best interests at heart,
> DR> but they do not understand that most of us are old enough to look
> DR> out for ourselves, thankyouverymuch, and don't appreciate their
> DR> attempts to "help" us. They believe they are saving everyone from
> DR> drowning, even though there's no water anywhere. They believe they
> DR> "know best" and everyone is less enlightened than they.
> Yes, but if they were all so good-hearted and honest, wouldn't they
> stop and
> say, "Hmm, yeah, you may be right" when we say how much their
> attempts to
> mandate their morality is bigoted fascism? They don't do that,
> however; they
> just keep on going with it, without even taking a split second to
> think about
> what *WE* have to say.
They just can't accept the possibility that their morality is bigoted; to
them
, it is THE TRUTH, and if you speak against that, you must be either misled
or
evil.
> I can't believe that every single person is that dumb, so I must
> assume that
> they are that evil.
No, they're just that committed to their delusions.
jv
--- GEcho 1.00
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From: Don Martin
To: David Rice
Sub: Camels Kills
Date: 8 Jan 94 08:07:53
--------
EID:e33c 1c2840e0
MSGID: 1:109/519.37 2d2eb03b
PID XRS! 5.1-
REPLY: 1:124/9005.0 2d284af8
A pregnant pause ensued as David Rice shared a conception -- Camels Kills
-- w
ith Fredric Rice on 03 Jan 94 11:42:
DR> "Nine out of ten Muslims who try Camels prefer women."
As do the camels.
---
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From: Don Martin
To: Dave Keeton
Sub: Proof
Date: 8 Jan 94 08:28:26
--------
EID:0ea2 1c284380
MSGID: 1:109/519.37 2d2eb561
PID XRS! 5.1-
REPLY: 1:3406/27 52c7d4c2
A pregnant pause ensued as Dave Keeton shared a conception -- Proof -- with
Da
vid Worrell on 04 Jan 94 04:30:
DK> Those of us who
DK> believe the Bible and are convinced that God does exsist, are not
DK> always on the defensive.
Most such are, in fact, pretty offensive. Particularly when they pontifi
cate without quoting.
---
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From: Don Martin
To: David Rice
Sub: Adam...
Date: 8 Jan 94 10:34:51
--------
EID:08e9 1c285440
MSGID: 1:109/519.37 2d2ed379
PID XRS! 5.1-
REPLY: 1:124/9005.0 2d2caf02
A pregnant pause ensued as David Rice shared a conception -- Adam... --
with J
ohn Musselwhite on 06 Jan 94 19:38:
DR> She also noted that the Catholic Church has lost 25% of its clergy
DR> within the last 20 years. (She was a nun.)
The last I heard, the Catholics in this country were getting two new cler
gypersons for every three that retired, died or got kicked out for altarboy
ro
gering. It is rumored (but stoutly denied by those institutions) that the
sta
ndards at the seminaries have been lowered to retain the more poorly prepared
candidates they are accepting to fill up the space.
---
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From: Don Martin
To: David Worrell
Sub: Good?
Date: 8 Jan 94 10:47:10
--------
EID:1751 1c2855e0
MSGID: 1:109/519.37 2d2ed5be
PID XRS! 5.1-
A pregnant pause ensued as David Worrell shared a conception -- Good? --
with
Steve Bedard on 04 Jan 94 08:20:
> SB> not do good as God sees good unless they do it in the power of the
> SB> Holy Spirit.
DW>
DW> Let me get this straight. If I, as a non-christian, save your life
DW> tomorrow, then I have performed an evil act in the eyes of God????
Think about it. Would YOU want this guy acting as YOUR self-appointed sp
okesman?
---
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From: Don Martin
To: Stephen Lochmiller
Sub: ADAM...
Date: 8 Jan 94 10:49:25
--------
EID:f74a 1c285620
MSGID: 1:109/519.37 2d2ed64e
PID XRS! 5.1-
A pregnant pause ensued as Stephen Lochmiller shared a conception -- ADAM...
-
- with Martin Goldberg on 05 Jan 94 21:34:
SL> Abraham Lincoln lived, or that George
SL> Washington lived or Thomas Jefferson
SL> lived? Can you really prove it to me?
Given the sort of mental equipment you demonstrate here, it is probably
i
mpossible to prove anything to you. So?
---
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From: EDEK ANDRED WHITEWITCH
To: DAVID RICE
Sub: Those terrible "attacks"
Date: 07 Jan 94 10:58:00
--------
EID:74D2 F4275740
+-+ Quoting David Rice +--------------+
|DRwith: Dan Sereduick and Hector Plasmic...
|
|DR>DS> I never said I didn't want to be here. I just want an idea of
|DR>DS> why various people in this echo get off on attacking people.
|
|DRSQ> For their money, of course - stick 'em up!
|
|DRThe hell with his money. . . . "We want his children! We want his
|DRchildren!" [ala Joe Savelie]
|
|DR--- Maximus 2.01wb
|DR * Origin: Wanted, Dead or Alive: Randall Terry. (1:124/9005)
+-+ Robert Curry replied thusly +-----+
->Men your all so wonderfully foolish!!!
++ ++-+ +
++udie ++ | |ase
+-++ ++ +-+ -'@
sysop emeritius
Under the El BBS
215-638-8121
tagline > >>> Guns don't kill people.. Mailreaders kill people! <<<
* QMPro 1.02 94-7652 * Under the El BBS (215) 638-8121
--- GOMail v1.2 [DEMO] 02-01-94
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From: Marty Leipzig
To: Careful Eugene
Sub: MAYBE YOU CAN TELL ME
Date: 08 Jan 94 06:53:05
--------
EID:c8d0 1c2836a0
Careful Eugene, who gets a blast out of plasma detonics, said to Marty Leipzig
:
ML> Careful Eugene, who thought 2000 Roentgens were 2 rad,
ML> said to Steve Quarrella:
SQ> Tecumque.
CE> Really! Niota, etowah.
ML> Yataheah! Shiechk es?
ML> Estsotsos! Keyosho, shatata.
CE> Eskimo? Give me a break......
Nahhh...Navajo.
Nearly as obscure.
... Geraldo Rivera: Genetic experiment gone bad? On the next Geraldo...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
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From: Marty Leipzig
To: Jesse C. Jones
Sub: Revenge of the Nerds
Date: 08 Jan 94 11:59:33
--------
EID:0c40 1c285f60
Jesse C. Jones, who gets a blast out of plasma detonics, said to Marty Leipzig
:
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Jesse C. Jones <=-
JCJ> You define "education" as the training
JCJ> which enables a bunch of scientists to work for the oil industry!
ML> Got that buckwheat. Tell me, what grade PCDI bit would YOU use
ML> to drill the overpressured Wilcox at 18,000'? Hmmmmm?
Never did answer this question, did you?
JCJ>
JCJ> Where were the historians?
ML> Whoa! I swear! You fundies are the best straight men for which
ML> an atheist could pray! The historians? You bozo. How about
ML> geologists? We're the ultimate historians. We study history
ML> back 4.68 billion years. Next.
JCJ>
JCJ> The philosophers? The theologians?
ML> Unnecessary frills. We tend to stick to reality. Next.
JCJ>
JCJ> The educators?
ML> That's us, bucko. I teach courses in Vertebrate Paleontology,
ML> Archosaur Bioenergetics, and Paleozoology at the local
ML> community college (gratis) and give lectures (which are
ML> oftimes SRO, quite well received and also quite gratis)
ML> at various community centers. I also teach Handgun Safety
ML> at the range. I prefer a Glock 10 mm. automatic with laser
ML> ranging.
JCJ> The psychologists?
ML> Whoever needs psychologists needs their head examined. Next.
JCJ>
JCJ> The sociologists?
ML> Not needed. We were taking care of our own. Next.
JCJ>
JCJ> Scholars of
JCJ> literature and the arts?
ML> Right here, again. Between my immediate peer group, we've
ML> authored no less than 60 articles and 12 books. A good friend
ML> of mine, as a sidelight, is an accomplished artist (you may
ML> recall sometime ago my little squib about "detonic art".
ML> That's him.) Next.
JCJ>
JCJ> You're cracking me up, Marty!
I don't think so, Jesse. You cracked up long ago.
JCJ> I think it's time to come honest
JCJ> and give up this "better-educated" label.
'Smatter, Jesse, truth hurt?
JCJ> Instead, it looks to me like
JCJ> the regulars here are
JCJ> THE REVENGE OF THE NERDS!
Yeah, now there's a prime example of your educational level
and debating skills.
Which begs the obvious question, just who reads these messages to you?
... If you think education is expensive, try ignorance!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
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From: Marty Leipzig
To: Dan Curran
Sub: HAPPY NEW YEAR!
Date: 08 Jan 94 07:01:48
--------
EID:8807 1c283820
Dan Curran, who gets a blast out of plasma detonics, said to Marty Leipzig:
> Don't you tell me what kind of year to have...
DC> Ok, Happy New Year to everybody but Marty Leipzig.
Oh, oh, oh! Getting exclusionary, are we?
You'll burn in Heck for that, me bucko.
DC> ... What the hell is a "kind" anyway?!
A kind is a kind of kind that follows its' own kind but not
other kinds.
At least, that's what the Creatidiots say.
... Creationism is stuck in a "Morris" of misinformation.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
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From: Marty Leipzig
To: Jesse C. Jones
Sub: Who does what
Date: 08 Jan 94 11:42:51
--------
EID:73e9 1c285d40
Jesse C. Jones, who gets a blast out of plasma detonics, said to Marty Leipzig
:
-=> Quoting Marty Leipzig to Jesse C. Jones <=-
ML> Let me ask you, Herr fundy-humanities-type. How many pro bono
ML> cases do you take per year and how's the schedule on your
ML> lecture circuit?
JCJ> I don't keep count, but I probably handle about a dozen "pro
[60 odd line snip.]
JCJ> Protestant Appeal.
JCJ> You asked.
Gee. I'm impressed.
I mean, when do you find the time to chase ambulances?
... How do you get a lawyer out of a tree? Cut the rope.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
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From: Marty Leipzig
To: Martin Goldberg
Sub: That enthalpy.
Date: 08 Jan 94 12:00:30
--------
EID:4bd0 1c286000
Martin Goldberg, who gets a blast out of plasma detonics, said to Marty
Leipzi
g:
MG>> time. At the bottom is the same message written in Greek."
MG>> So it's "Demotic" and not "Detonic". Have Jesse sue me.
ML> I like "detonic" better. Maybe we can define detonic as the
ML> language used in HolySmoke to nuke fundies....
MG> Or Demonic? With a Devil-may-care attitude like this, I'm satan in
my
MG> boots waiting for it.
What the halite. Call it moronic, or just a spayed a spayed.
... You'll have to beat a different dog for awhile, I'm headed north: RevRon
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
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From: Marty Leipzig
To: Martin Goldberg
Sub: The Xtian fraud called Piltdown Man
Date: 08 Jan 94 11:57:27
--------
EID:af76 1c285f20
Martin Goldberg, who gets a blast out of plasma detonics, said to Marty
Leipzi
g:
MG>> He's somewhat blurry about what a real nutageniser is.
ML> He's somewhat blurry as to what reality is.
MG> Conwell has taken the proverbial Hoysmoke Powder. Take one and your
MG> headache goes away.
Funny thing...it's transcendental. He takes one and disappears.
MG>> Parthogenesis my ass...I thought you were talking about
MG>> Virgin Birth. Are those lizards MARRIED?
ML> Whoops. Now that you mention it, they were just shacking
ML> up....
MG> I guess that all the dinosaurs are in Hell.....
Close. Hell Creek.
(Howling at the geofunny just created...trust me, it's a
thighslapper...)
... A man who turns green has eschewed protein.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
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From: Careful Eugene
To: Marty Leipzig
Sub: Sheeze
Date: 08 Jan 94 07:06:32
--------
EID:27ea 1c2838c0
MSGID: 1:106/3323.0 2d2ea1c8
ML> Telca Mousef, who thought 2000 Roentgens were 2 rad,
ML> said to Steve Quarrella:
ML> "Telca", you old reprobate. Long time, no see. Welcome back.
ML> We've got a few new fundies merrily roasting over the coals just
ML> waiting for someone to launch a distillation tower their way...
Or something more weighty, such as a Westinghouse j-frame. Outfitted with
a flexable hose for inlet gas and chassised on wheels, it would make a most
cl
ean swath through almost any Baptist church, cutting the alter into the
ersatz
marble pieces and lighting pews on fire with it's exhaust gases.
Fortunately, because of the Good Samaratin laws, I will be able to view
th
e destruction firsthand and maintain deniability.
DR>> I Love Steve Winter
DR>> David Rice, user of 1:124/9005
This guy leaves the french doors wide open.
SQ>
SQ> Note that any mail from Steve Winter to this system will be eaten by
SQ> EXCLUDE. I would rather not be included in his lunacies.
TM> EXCLUDE is a program used by people who don't know or cannot
TM> constructively argue and confront others. It is a weakness on your
TM> part that you use such software.
ML> Now, now. Most people can divine the difference between an
ML> extant and extinct equine. Some prefer not to flog the latter.
ML> I, on the other hand, prefer to hand someone a metaphorical
ML> live 440 VAC line when the deserve it...
TM> To beat Steve Winter, you have to
TM> turn his own evidence against him. I suspect
TM> Leipzig would have little
TM> trouble with the likes of him....instead, causing Winter to EXCLUDE
TM> him.
ML> Well, do I detect a bit of a challenge here? I have heard of
ML> this Christian monstrosity, but only in the third person. Guess
ML> I'll mosey over and toss a few molotovs his way and see what
ML> lights up.
In that case, I may just put on my fundy disguise and order them all up.
I
am sure I can drive him crazy with my "errant fundy" rap, but I would enjoy
w
atching him be debilitated in your style. Combine us and I am afraid the
boy w
ill end up in the "secure" ward at Rusk, with his mental equal, George Roden.
--- Maximus 2.01wb
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--------
From: Careful Eugene
To: Styx Allum
Sub: Well folks....
Date: 08 Jan 94 07:15:48
--------
EID:5c95 1c2839e0
MSGID: 1:106/3323.0 2d2ea3f4
REPLY: 1:152/20@fidonet 01963f64
SA> But you just did, anyway. So does all that handshaking in a church
SA> full of sweaty palms and money from people's pockets. Think about
SA> that for a moment, in case you hadn't before. Some people even keep
SA> their used hankies in the same pockets as their money. [Cough]
Strange that you would point this out.
--- Maximus 2.01wb
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From: Careful Eugene
To: John Musselwhite
Sub: Re: Bible
Date: 08 Jan 94 07:17:10
--------
EID:3a34 1c283a20
MSGID: 1:106/3323.0 2d2ea446
REPLY: 1:134/67 2d289394
I suppose we should list our stipulations as far as the bible(xtian) is
co
ncerned, sooooooo
Holy Smoke Bible Stipulations
-----------------------------
1. Egypt exists and did exist during the times the books of the bible
were written. This is a fact.
__________________________
Please feel free to add as you see fit.
--- Maximus 2.01wb
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--------
From: Careful Eugene
To: Steve Quarrella
Sub: Manson Finds The Lord God
Date: 08 Jan 94 07:36:26
--------
EID:6d23 1c283c80
MSGID: 1:106/3323.0 2d2ea8ca
SA> Blasphemy! Vernon Reid is the Devil,
SQ>
SQ> Hardly. If only he were that good.
SA> and Steve Vai is the guitar god. (Not a bad combo, eh?)
SQ>
SQ> Nope. Blackmore. "My god's better than your god, my god's better
SQ> than yours..."
Blackmore would be better if he could get off of that 20 year downer binge
he has been on. I nominate Clapton for endurance and originality....as well
a
s some pretty good re-dos of Hendrix as of late.
Zappa could rip the hide off of all of them, to be honest....if he had eve
r just once gotten serious. He got close with "Too late to save a drowning
wit
ch" but I am resigned that he is about 100 years ahead of his time. I have
see
n him perform a number of times and Zappa is highly underrated as a guitarist.
SA> (Satriani is merely a good impersonator)
SQ>
He's an ego-driven snot-nosed punk. (probably a closet Pentecostal) I have
known 10 year old kids that could make him sound like a beginner. Anyone
who
likes that one must enjoy devo and machinery symposiums.
SQ> He's impersonating Ritchie Blackmore right now, in fact, on the last
leg
SQ> of Purple's European tour. Shame.
Imitation is the sincerest form........alternately, those that can...do
those that cannot...imitate
SA> * Origin: Neil Peart is the god of percussion. (1:152/20)
SQ>
SQ> Nope. Keith Moon. :)
Ginger Baker when Blind Faith was rippin butt.
--- Maximus 2.01wb
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--------
From: Careful Eugene
To: Jeff Jones
Sub: Re: Assurance
Date: 08 Jan 94 07:53:36
--------
EID:41f0 1c283ea0
MSGID: 1:106/3323.0 2d2eacd0
REPLY: 1:202/102 2d2bbf54
JJ> Actually, scholars believe the contrasts in the OT as well as the
JJ> references to Yahweh-Elohim are due to a blending of
JJ> two religions into one. One of them perhaps from an
JJ> area near India but definitely with eastern influence.
JJ> A person seeking the truth about the origins of a
JJ> religion has to first step back from that religion for
JJ> an unbiased viewpoint.
It was my understanding that YHWH or yaweh is the singular for god and tha
t Elohim was a term referring to a plural "host" as a leader of a nation.
Your mileage may vary.
--- Maximus 2.01wb
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--------
From: Careful Eugene
To: Jeff Jones
Sub: Re: Question for the Better Educated
Date: 08 Jan 94 07:58:30
--------
EID:255c 1c283f40
MSGID: 1:106/3323.0 2d2eadf6
REPLY: 1:202/102 2d2bbf59
JJ> *** Quoting Marilyn Burge to All ***
MB> theology. He
MB> said that the virgin birth was a physical possibility and cited MB>
some l
aw
MB> of physics to "show" how it was possible. Is there somebody in MB>
this
MB> conference who would like to hazard a guess which physical law he MB>
invo
ked to justify his absurdity? I've been wracking my brain
JJ> The only thing I can think of is perhaps Mary was a hermaphrodite.
There are occurances in nature of unfertilized eggs developing into
embryos. It is rare, and the account I read involved domesticated
turkeys.
I doubt this is the answer to Mary's problem though.
--- Maximus 2.01wb
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--------
From: Careful Eugene
To: All
Sub: Hunting rules for fundies
Date: 08 Jan 94 08:05:04
--------
EID:ad02 1c2840a0
MSGID: 1:106/3323.0 2d2eaf80
With thanks to Marty Leipzig:
Saw this yesterday when I got my new fishing license:
FEDERAL WILDLIFE COMMISSION
OFFICE OF DANGEROUS PESTS CONTROL.
The following regulations and bag limits for fundys become effective
with the issuance of this announcement. No restrictions apply with
regard to the use of sporting firearms (including semi-automatic and
automatic weapons), archery equipment, edged instruments, trapping
devices, bludgeons, truncheons and snares (poisonous, explosive, or
otherwise).
LICENSE REQUIREMENTS
1. Any person with a valid hunting license, driver's license,
(or learner's permit), U.S. social security card, draft
registration card, U.S. Passport, Visa (or Master Card), or
alien green card is eligible to harvest fundys without
payment of additional fees.
RESTRICTIONS AND REGULATIONS
1. The use of honesty, truthfulness, and openness in dealing
with this particular prey is not expressly forbidden, but
everyone is urged to exercise extreme caution in the use of
these baits. In almost all cases, the fundy species perceives
these particular bait scents as a sign of weakness and will
attack without warning.
2. The use of currency, or legal/illegal tender is a highly
effective bait, but it must be used prudently and sparingly.
When using this as a lure, it is best to camoflage or
disguise the true nature of the material as much as
possible; using