God Damned Fundies!
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Joe Savelli
Sub: Christian Coalition Cult (CCC) is rather embarrassing...
Date: 15 Jan 94 21:44:24
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 07954fc2
REPLY: 1:133/208.0 2d2ed2b6
PID: FM 2.02
js> Christian Coalitions membership in 1992 300,000.
And every one of them was arrested for praying, no doubt.
Well, no, actually. The self-appointed charasmatic cult watchdog group
"BARK"
founded by Barkley and Seal in New York publish active membership information
acquired through direct involvement -- in fundie words, they infiltrait
cults
and report to a varity of educational institutions around the United States.
At the end of June of 1992, recorded active membership in that charasmatic
cul
t
was a rather dismal and embarrassing 17,000. Also:
js> In 1993 900,000 and still growing.
At the end of June of 1993, the number of recorded active membership in
that c
harasmatic cult was a rather dismal and embarrassing 17,000.
Creamy Ranch Dressing was your choice, as I recall? As usual, cults greatly
i
nflate their membership in a vain attempt to make people believe that there
is
a viable domestic terrorism at work and that people should fear the cult.
js> We are going to invade all political and educational institutions,
All you're going to do, Joe, is invade the rears of innocent young boys.
js> The Church won't sit back and permit unbelievers to run the world.
Too late. You're perfectly harmless, Joe.
js> Scared Good....
You certainly appear to be.
~*~ I don't like you, I just hate you, I'm gonna' kick your ass! - GNR
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Dave Keeton
Sub: Evolution is a fact and there are theories to describe it
Date: 16 Jan 94 12:57:34
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080c6fd6
REPLY: 1:3406/27.0 2d306caa
PID: FM 2.02
Greetings, Dave!
I doubt if you'll be willing to finish reading this yet, here goes!
DW> No, I don't "believe" in evolution. Evolution is a fact. I believe the
DW> Theory of evolution is at least a good approximation of what
DW> happened.
dk> Well, which is it? a theory or a fact? It is most certainly not
dk> a FACT, although as of the last few years, it has been taught
dk> in public schools as fact.
There are quite a few believers in mythology who are honestly confused with
ev
olution and the theories which are being developed to describe it. Evolution
is an immutable fact, not subject to belief or disbelief. The theories
evolv
ed to describe the advent of species _is_ subject to debate yet the fact
remai
ns a fact.
"Gravity? Well? Which is it? A theory or a fact?"
That's what you're saying. Evolution, like gravity, is a fact. Also, evoluti
onary theories, like gravitational theories, attempt to describe the facts
and
are subject to scientific inquiry and opinion.
Anyone who claims that evolution doesn't happen needs to ask himself or
hersel
f why they are willing to accept that gravity happens but not evolution.
The
conclusion (if the individual is thinking at all) will be that they are
constr
ained through dogmatic belief in mythologies and are incapable of rational,
cr
itical, thought.
dk> Anyone willing to have an open mind and do a little
dk> research into the very fields that you like to quote
dk> from for your evidence, will doubtless find that the
dk> parameters for life to exsist on this planet leave
dk> little margin for error
I suspect you won't be allowed to remain within this forum for very long
-- no
t that anyone else will suggest that you search for some other avenue to
discu
ss mythology, but because you, yourself, will find that occult claims are
to b
e dismembered in rather unfriendly ways. When exposed to the light of
truth,
believers in mythology vacate rather quickly -- rather like vampires being
ex
posed to the light.
o Point 1: The origin of life is not in any way connected with
nor concerned with the advent of species (evolution.) Evolutionary
theories do not attempt to describe the origins of life. You are
claiming otherwise which means that you know not of which you spout.
o Point 2: There are biologists within this forum and laypeople
who are very well versed in the subject and associated subjects.
Claiming that the participants are unlearned in this area,
specifically, is rather silly and does nothing in supporting the
positive image that you doubtless consider you hold.
dk> and how all of these things point to a Creator.
Thinking that some magic wand is required to create life isn't being "open
minded." It is being rather silly and grimly close-minded. What we find
is
that the origins of life are easilly permitted through the environments
obtain
able as the Earth's crust cooled after its accretion.
What we also find is that believers will stoop to any lowness; perform any
und
erhanded and dishonest act; make any occult claim they must to salvage both
an
unworkable superstitious belief and a failing faith.
Most believers in deities don't feel the need to concoct stories and ignore
re
ality to bolster-up a sagging faith.
~*~ I fully give him the right to call the Bible a load of bullshit...
Just NOT to someone who believes in it. - Dan Sereduick
---
* Origin: Creationists: six impossible things before breakfast (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Robert Curry
Sub: I AM Popeye the Sailor Man!
Date: 16 Jan 94 15:00:32
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080c6fdf
REPLY: 1:3603/140.4 740ce450
PID: FM 2.02
JCJ> is it warmer in the South than it is in the Summer?
rc> If you have trouble making it parallel, I can do that for you, but
rc> you ought to give it a shot first, for pedagogical reasons. Deal?
You could just tell him 'no' and then demand that, in the spirit of fairness,
he answer RC Query #1. The reason that the answer is 'no' is because it
is ju
st as warm in the South as it is in the summer -- in the South during summer.
It's amazing, isn't it? The insecurity and fear a simple question invokes.
~*~ I don't care if you're a Lesbian trapped in a mans body
- Thomas Blumenstetter
---
* Origin: I want to have Steve Winter's baby (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Quarrella
Sub: Christian Coalition is groaning...
Date: 16 Jan 94 16:51:46
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080ff6ff
PID: FM 2.02
JS> The Church won't sit back and
JS> permit unbelievers to run the world.
sq> Unbelievers won't allow you into their homes or their yards.
I knew you would comment. It's amazing, isn't it, that, after
be
ing so soundly debunked and exposed as a liar and a fraud, this individual
can
simply take a deep breath and continue to lie.
The guy's harmless. He's a homosexual but is too afraid to admit it, by
all e
xternal indications.
~*~ Their gawds are not worth the paper they are printed on! - Steve Rose
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: STEVE QUARRELLA
Sub: GUESS WHO'S COMING TO CUM?
Date: 17 Jan 94 12:22:38
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 088ae2c2
PID: FM 2.02
> þ POW 1.0 On Trial þ Powerline Offline
> reader for Windows - New Windows OLR
Your OLR sucks the big Harry one.
(It caps yur name and subject, and truncates the subject.)
~*~ I believe in family with my ever loving wife beside me. She don't
know about my girl friend -- or the man I met last night - GENESIS
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Quarrella
Sub: Fact vs. Fact
Date: 17 Jan 94 22:05:07
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Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 08958fc9
PID: FM 2.02
#include David Rice
DR> I heard that all sexual desire vanishes in a man once he
DR> marries. Wonder if it's true.
sq> In your wildest dreams, you hateful heathen. :)
'Taint so. The frequency of sexual intercourse may decrease due to mounting
f
inancial, socio-political demands and stress yet marriage doesn't seem to
detr
act from the biological drive to fuck, fuck, fuck.
~*~ I still can't make heads or tails or heads or
tails or heads or tails. . . out of it. - David Rice
---
* Origin: Reality's a bitch. (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: QMail v1.01
To: Nobody in particular
Sub: Re: Whatsa high water mark?
Date: 15 Jan 94 20:10:21
--------
This message is used by QMail to store the high water mark
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Barard
Sub: And at last count, seven -- and growing!
Date: 15 Jan 94 20:42:54
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 07947f76
REPLY: 1:350/401 86212DAB
PID: FM 2.02
DC> Perhaps nothing more than another round of trivia.... Glad
DC> to see that you have at least done a little research!
SB> Thanks. Bring on the next question.
Okay! How many deities do you worship?
~*~ Shit, gotta run. there's data that needs to be faked.
- Martin Goldberg
---
* Origin: I want to have Steve Winter's baby (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Dan Ceppa
Sub: Fact vs. Superstition
Date: 15 Jan 94 21:05:46
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 07950fb1
REPLY: 1:350/401 86212DB2
PID: FM 2.02
#include Rob Bamford
RB> Take note, also, that the Bible was written by numerous authors (Old
RB> and New Testaments) over many hundreds of years, yet while the majority
RB> of the authors did't know each other, their writings have stayed in
RB> harmony with each other. Rob
dc> Bob, do you care to start that off by explaining how the day
dc> of the last supper seems to be off a tad when comparing the
dc> different gospels?
"That's a minor rather embarrassing mistake which doesn't detract from the
validity of the rest of the doctrin."
dc> ... +Origin: MASTICATOR! NETWORK--CHEWING THE FAT WITH JESUS
~*~ Homosexuality and liberalism IS evil... Both are destined to fail...
- Joe Savelli
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Bedard
Sub: Interpret it any way you want to -- it's still mythology, Steve.
Date: 16 Jan 94 12:43:20
--------
Star:Goat
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REPLY: 1:247/133 050b1d4d
PID: FM 2.02
DS> Even the devils believe. Jesus even told Satan to get behind him
DS> and commanded him to do good (serve God).
sb> Actually, Jesus was talking to Peter here and was calling Him satan
sb> because he tried tempting Jesus into avoiding the crucifixion.
That's one way to interpret this bit of mythology. There are many ways
that t
his bit of mythology may be interpreted which can present a claim for anything
your masters wish it to claim.
I merly mention it as that's the nature of myths: they are employed as
socio-
political vehicles towards an end and their interpretations change and mutate
according to the political environment of the contemporary time.
In any event, it's rather a heavy contradiction in that the Jesus mythos
chast
ized Peter about not setting himself up as a martyr and then later, before
bei
ng hung or nailed to a tree, asking himself for permission to change his
own m
ind about him setting himself up as a martyr.
A buck! says that you'll find a justification for the change of
hear
t. At _minimum_ the Jesus mythos was comparing himself to the Satan mythos
wh
en it asked itself to avoid its own required death.
~*~ We got you, Jesse. You belong to us now. - David Rice
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Dave Keeton
Sub: More ignorance being displayed by the creationist
Date: 16 Jan 94 13:20:30
--------
Star:Goat
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REPLY: 1:3406/27.0 2d306cab
PID: FM 2.02
#include Martin Goldberg
MG> 5. Random events do not occur and stick around.
dk> Man, you guys think that my arguments are ludicris?!
So far you have yet to concoct a valid argument so the answer is no.
dk> Neo-Darwin Evolution would be impossible inside the scope of 10-20
dk> billion years because the chance of random shuffling of amino acids
dk> (the building blocks of life) producing a workable set of enzymes
dk> would be less then 10 to the -40,000
You are employing one of the standard creationist straw-men. Evolutionary
pro
cesses do not employ random distributions. Also, you are doing nothing
to det
ract from the fact of evolution; you are merely attempting to find something
w
rong with one of the theories which describes it.
dk> (this is a conservative estimate by British
dk> Astrophysicist Sir Fred Hoyle made in 1981).
Hoyle is a creationist who holds no discernable credentials in biology nor
in
molecular biology. When he spouts his creationist beliefs he merely serves
to
damage his once highly reguarded credability as a fine scientist.
You may as well name-drop a mathematition, philosopher, or plumber.
dk> Science does have a limit in the Laws of Probability,
dk> at which something can be considered IMPOSSIBLE.
No, actually. Within the realm of scientific method, nothing remains impossib
le just highly unlikely. Brownian motion within a table may cause that
table
to reform into a lamp yet it's highly unlikely.
dk> Anything less than 10 to the -50 is considered absurd.
An occult and emotional belief not supported by facts.
dk> Even if you ran your different combinations in the 20
dk> BILLION years, you wouldn't have the TIME to come up
dk> with the right combination.
Another straw-man yet, even so, you're incorrect. In sequential order,
placed
within one nanosecond, one wouldn't need even a percent of that 20 billion
ye
ars you're offering.
In any event, the Earth's star is a second generation star.
Really, Dave... Try to present a reasonable discussion, at least.
~*~ My personal opinion that we were built by something is based
on the available evidence. Since it is an opinion and not
backed up with evidence. -- Bill Wolff
---
* Origin: Creationists: six impossible things before breakfast (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Howard Harkness
Sub: Aids is the Christian pantheon's gift to a sinning humanity
Date: 16 Jan 94 13:30:52
--------
Star:Goat
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PID: FM 2.02
Hay!
Welcome back!
SB> Sorry, but Christian morality is the only hope this world
SB> has. To bad to world is going to refuse to follow it.
hh> By their fruits shall ye know them. More human suffering has
hh> been inflicted in the name of Christianity than by any other
hh> 'ism' -- with the possible exception of Islam.
Though the evidence is immutable and entirely clear, you'll never convince
a b
eliever in same deadly ideologies that there is anything wrong with them.
What
I expect you'll see is that Steve Bardard will claim that the Catholic Pope
a
nd all of the people who have murdered, tortures, raped, and burned the
millio
ns of innocent people all down through recorded time were not Christians.
~*~ Most white people can get seriously mutated by just
5 hours of constant direct sunlight. - James Conwell
---
* Origin: Creationists: six impossible things before breakfast (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Careful Eugene
Sub: True colors: black and white
Date: 16 Jan 94 14:02:28
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ce> I don't expect someone off the street to be able to do it,
ce> but fer Christ's Sakes, 4 year grads who can't do ladder logic?
Hey, wow. We got us one of them ladder logic grunts here in Holland doing
wie
rd, bizzare, and occult things with hardware thingies. Us software types
neve
r stoop so low as to get our hards dirty with that stuff.
He's moving motors for conveyers and sortation machines and I'm telling
him wh
ere to go.
Yet you make the point clearly: There is a marked lack of quality education
b
eing performed in the general populace. The perception is that people are
not
getting what they pay for in higher-level institutions and they're not gettin
g what they _should_ get in the lower-level schools.
~*~ In no way am I your physical or mental inferior and I refuse to
be addressed as one, you drooling asswipe. - Lynne Rosendale
---
* Origin: Creationists: six impossible things before breakfast (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Quarrella
Sub: HYPNOTHERAPY
Date: 16 Jan 94 14:10:37
--------
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REPLY: 1:124/9005 2d30807f
PID: FM 2.02
sq> * To : Stewart Harris
SH> However, two government agencies, because of a device I have
SH> which overcomes gravity without using any energy, have had me
SH> judged mentally incompetent and my passport is being held up
SH> under "administrative review."
I just _love_ conspiracy theories!
sq> Thought some would get a chuckle out of this.
sq> Sorry I didn't catch the original.
The original would be worth money. Does anyone you know have it?
~*~ "Join us on the dark side, Jake." - Questor Thews
---
* Origin: Creationists: six impossible things before breakfast (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Len Ovens
Sub: no not that! Yes, sadly, it's an education
Date: 16 Jan 94 14:12:46
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PID: FM 2.02
AH> God has better things to do than have
AH> conversations with mere humans.
lo> Yes, but then I have better things to do than talk to my son too.
If you're making the attempt to equate the classical Christian pantheon
descri
be in the OT as a 'father/son' relationship, you might have more success
sugge
sting that the time you spend with your son is in killing him were he to
displ
ease you.
I merely mention in, Len. No need to get upset.
~*~ Your immortal soles, corns and all, are in danger of
ever-lasting stewing in the Holy Bile! - David Rice
---
* Origin: Creationists: six impossible things before breakfast (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: John Musselwhite
Sub: Know you from ADAM...
Date: 16 Jan 94 14:45:22
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SL> In reponse to MG: Can you give us any real evidence that Cesar lived,
jm> Do you mean "Caesar"? Which one? Again, it hinges on evidence.
And Augustus, as I recall, ruled for four years under the name Octavian.
(Pardon __my__ spelling! )
~*~ BUT... if I told you that 1+1=1, as idiotic as it seems, until
I am proven wrong I am right. -- Zach Webb, HOLYSMOKE FidoNet
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Joe Schultz
Sub: Real unconvincing evidence
Date: 16 Jan 94 14:48:59
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ML> Then gravity's a god to you?
JS> No. I am smarter than gravity.
DM> Evidence?
js> Elementary, my dear Donson; you responded to me.
Only because Gravity is smart enough not to make outrageous claims.
js> Your Worst Nightmare!
More like your worst daydream.
This claim, also, has been tried before and debunked.
~*~ If Iraq invaded Turkey from the rear would Greece help? - Unknown
---
* Origin: I want to have Steve Winter's baby (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Robert Curry
Sub: Jesse has indeed learned a great deal
Date: 16 Jan 94 16:10:51
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Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080ff6f9
REPLY: 1:3603/140.4 d3046bf7
PID: FM 2.02
SB> It seems to be more non-theistic rather than atheistic [...]
rc> Haven't you picked up on this fact yet? Keep it up, and you'll be
rc> the next Jesse, saying, "I have learned _nothing_ from my stay here!"
Which is evidenced as false merely due to his marked change in amount of
nonse
nse being spewed.
~*~ Once more: your question is stupid, and I will not answer it.
- Jesse C. Jones
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Robert Curry
Sub: Real vs. imaginary
Date: 16 Jan 94 16:14:02
--------
Star:Goat
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REPLY: 1:3603/140.4 44c3a643
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SB> Alright I have a better one. If I show you both of my hands
SB> and they seem empty can you prove that I am not holding a
SB> hammer in my hands?
He picks a real object to 'support' an argument about an imaginary one.
rc> If I show you both of my hands and they seem empty, can you
rc> prove that I am not holding a magical elf in my hands?
You did much better.
rc> ... "I killed the Greek piper god", Tom deadpanned.
"I can fuck you now," Tom said stiffly.
~*~ Deal with it, pink boy. - Crow T. Robot
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Robert Curry
Sub: Rape and kill for Jesus -- it's the only way to "return them."
Date: 16 Jan 94 16:17:46
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080ff6fb
REPLY: 1:3603/140.4 73ce7eb2
PID: FM 2.02
SB> When He destroyed it was out of necessity and when He punished the
SB> Hebrews it was in order to bring them back to Him.
"Punished" as in "raped then killed their children and then killed their
paren
ts" and "bring them back to it" as in "kill them all so that they could
stand
in judgement after they're dead.
rc> Sounds like some excuse used by husbands who abuse their wifes. It
is
rc> sickening and barbaric, with no redeeming social qualities at all.
rc> Disgusting.
It's amazing that this Christian pig can read his mythologies and find nothing
whatsoever wrong with the lovely morality of rape and murder.
~*~ I fully give him the right to call the Bible a load of bullshit...
Just NOT to someone who believes in it. - Dan Sereduick
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Mike Staab
Sub: And yet another one steps up to the microphone
Date: 16 Jan 94 16:20:24
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080ff6fc
PID: FM 2.02
ms> I don't like to play games, but do enjoy sound reasoning.
ms> Anyone interested?
Why sure!
Was your Judas mythos killed by hanging or by jummping off of a cliff?
~*~ A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle - U2
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Dan Sereduick
Sub: She can handle it
Date: 16 Jan 94 16:26:30
--------
Star:Goat
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PID: FM 2.02
ds> Yes, but it's ludicrous to think that atheism is not a religious
ds> belief, since it does indeed deal with theories about religion.
Oh? And what, please tell, are these mysterious religious 'theories' that
you
are attempting to saddle the more fortunate among us with? Please be specifi
c.
~*~ You could push it for more mileage but your flaps are wearing thin
and
I could sleep on it 'till morning but this nightmare never ends - GNR
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Quarrella
Sub: USA Vs. USSR in "morality"
Date: 16 Jan 94 16:45:12
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080ff6fe
PID: FM 2.02
DR> P.S. Just downloaded DOOM. Disgusting!
sq> Great game. "Catharsis" is written all over it. :)
I thought it had 'B L O O D" written all over it.
What's a file name I can use to download her butt good?
~*~ "Pi = 3, no error at all - Jesus
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Barard
Sub: And at last count, seven -- and growing!
Date: 15 Jan 94 20:42:54
--------
Star:Goat
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DC> Perhaps nothing more than another round of trivia.... Glad
DC> to see that you have at least done a little research!
SB> Thanks. Bring on the next question.
Okay! How many deities do you worship?
~*~ Shit, gotta run. there's data that needs to be faked.
- Martin Goldberg
---
* Origin: I want to have Steve Winter's baby (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Dan Ceppa
Sub: Fact vs. Superstition
Date: 15 Jan 94 21:05:46
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 07950fb1
REPLY: 1:350/401 86212DB2
PID: FM 2.02
#include Rob Bamford
RB> Take note, also, that the Bible was written by numerous authors (Old
RB> and New Testaments) over many hundreds of years, yet while the majority
RB> of the authors did't know each other, their writings have stayed in
RB> harmony with each other. Rob
dc> Bob, do you care to start that off by explaining how the day
dc> of the last supper seems to be off a tad when comparing the
dc> different gospels?
"That's a minor rather embarrassing mistake which doesn't detract from the
validity of the rest of the doctrin."
dc> ... +Origin: MASTICATOR! NETWORK--CHEWING THE FAT WITH JESUS
~*~ Homosexuality and liberalism IS evil... Both are destined to fail...
- Joe Savelli
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Bedard
Sub: Interpret it any way you want to -- it's still mythology, Steve.
Date: 16 Jan 94 12:43:20
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080c6fd5
REPLY: 1:247/133 050b1d4d
PID: FM 2.02
DS> Even the devils believe. Jesus even told Satan to get behind him
DS> and commanded him to do good (serve God).
sb> Actually, Jesus was talking to Peter here and was calling Him satan
sb> because he tried tempting Jesus into avoiding the crucifixion.
That's one way to interpret this bit of mythology. There are many ways
that t
his bit of mythology may be interpreted which can present a claim for anything
your masters wish it to claim.
I merly mention it as that's the nature of myths: they are employed as
socio-
political vehicles towards an end and their interpretations change and mutate
according to the political environment of the contemporary time.
In any event, it's rather a heavy contradiction in that the Jesus mythos
chast
ized Peter about not setting himself up as a martyr and then later, before
bei
ng hung or nailed to a tree, asking himself for permission to change his
own m
ind about him setting himself up as a martyr.
A buck! says that you'll find a justification for the change of
hear
t. At _minimum_ the Jesus mythos was comparing himself to the Satan mythos
wh
en it asked itself to avoid its own required death.
~*~ We got you, Jesse. You belong to us now. - David Rice
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Dave Keeton
Sub: More ignorance being displayed by the creationist
Date: 16 Jan 94 13:20:30
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080c6fd7
REPLY: 1:3406/27.0 2d306cab
PID: FM 2.02
#include Martin Goldberg
MG> 5. Random events do not occur and stick around.
dk> Man, you guys think that my arguments are ludicris?!
So far you have yet to concoct a valid argument so the answer is no.
dk> Neo-Darwin Evolution would be impossible inside the scope of 10-20
dk> billion years because the chance of random shuffling of amino acids
dk> (the building blocks of life) producing a workable set of enzymes
dk> would be less then 10 to the -40,000
You are employing one of the standard creationist straw-men. Evolutionary
pro
cesses do not employ random distributions. Also, you are doing nothing
to det
ract from the fact of evolution; you are merely attempting to find something
w
rong with one of the theories which describes it.
dk> (this is a conservative estimate by British
dk> Astrophysicist Sir Fred Hoyle made in 1981).
Hoyle is a creationist who holds no discernable credentials in biology nor
in
molecular biology. When he spouts his creationist beliefs he merely serves
to
damage his once highly reguarded credability as a fine scientist.
You may as well name-drop a mathematition, philosopher, or plumber.
dk> Science does have a limit in the Laws of Probability,
dk> at which something can be considered IMPOSSIBLE.
No, actually. Within the realm of scientific method, nothing remains impossib
le just highly unlikely. Brownian motion within a table may cause that
table
to reform into a lamp yet it's highly unlikely.
dk> Anything less than 10 to the -50 is considered absurd.
An occult and emotional belief not supported by facts.
dk> Even if you ran your different combinations in the 20
dk> BILLION years, you wouldn't have the TIME to come up
dk> with the right combination.
Another straw-man yet, even so, you're incorrect. In sequential order
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Barard
Sub: And at last count, seven -- and growing!
Date: 15 Jan 94 20:42:54
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 07947f76
REPLY: 1:350/401 86212DAB
PID: FM 2.02
DC> Perhaps nothing more than another round of trivia.... Glad
DC> to see that you have at least done a little research!
SB> Thanks. Bring on the next question.
Okay! How many deities do you worship?
~*~ Shit, gotta run. there's data that needs to be faked.
- Martin Goldberg
---
* Origin: I want to have Steve Winter's baby (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Dan Ceppa
Sub: Fact vs. Superstition
Date: 15 Jan 94 21:05:46
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 07950fb1
REPLY: 1:350/401 86212DB2
PID: FM 2.02
#include Rob Bamford
RB> Take note, also, that the Bible was written by numerous authors (Old
RB> and New Testaments) over many hundreds of years, yet while the majority
RB> of the authors did't know each other, their writings have stayed in
RB> harmony with each other. Rob
dc> Bob, do you care to start that off by explaining how the day
dc> of the last supper seems to be off a tad when comparing the
dc> different gospels?
"That's a minor rather embarrassing mistake which doesn't detract from the
validity of the rest of the doctrin."
dc> ... +Origin: MASTICATOR! NETWORK--CHEWING THE FAT WITH JESUS
~*~ Homosexuality and liberalism IS evil... Both are destined to fail...
- Joe Savelli
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Bedard
Sub: Interpret it any way you want to -- it's still mythology, Steve.
Date: 16 Jan 94 12:43:20
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080c6fd5
REPLY: 1:247/133 050b1d4d
PID: FM 2.02
DS> Even the devils believe. Jesus even told Satan to get behind him
DS> and commanded him to do good (serve God).
sb> Actually, Jesus was talking to Peter here and was calling Him satan
sb> because he tried tempting Jesus into avoiding the crucifixion.
That's one way to interpret this bit of mythology. There are many ways
that t
his bit of mythology may be interpreted which can present a claim for anything
your masters wish it to claim.
I merly mention it as that's the nature of myths: they are employed as
socio-
political vehicles towards an end and their interpretations change and mutate
according to the political environment of the contemporary time.
In any event, it's rather a heavy contradiction in that the Jesus mythos
chast
ized Peter about not setting himself up as a martyr and then later, before
bei
ng hung or nailed to a tree, asking himself for permission to change his
own m
ind about him setting himself up as a martyr.
A buck! says that you'll find a justification for the change of
hear
t. At _minimum_ the Jesus mythos was comparing himself to the Satan mythos
wh
en it asked itself to avoid its own required death.
~*~ We got you, Jesse. You belong to us now. - David Rice
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Dave Keeton
Sub: More ignorance being displayed by the creationist
Date: 16 Jan 94 13:20:30
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080c6fd7
REPLY: 1:3406/27.0 2d306cab
PID: FM 2.02
#include Martin Goldberg
MG> 5. Random events do not occur and stick around.
dk> Man, you guys think that my arguments are ludicris?!
So far you have yet to concoct a valid argument so the answer is no.
dk> Neo-Darwin Evolution would be impossible inside the scope of 10-20
dk> billion years because the chance of random shuffling of amino acids
dk> (the building blocks of life) producing a workable set of enzymes
dk> would be less then 10 to the -40,000
You are employing one of the standard creationist straw-men. Evolutionary
pro
cesses do not employ random distributions. Also, you are doing nothing
to det
ract from the fact of evolution; you are merely attempting to find something
w
rong with one of the theories which describes it.
dk> (this is a conservative estimate by British
dk> Astrophysicist Sir Fred Hoyle made in 1981).
Hoyle is a creationist who holds no discernable credentials in biology nor
in
molecular biology. When he spouts his creationist beliefs he merely serves
to
damage his once highly reguarded credability as a fine scientist.
You may as well name-drop a mathematition, philosopher, or plumber.
dk> Science does have a limit in the Laws of Probability,
dk> at which something can be considered IMPOSSIBLE.
No, actually. Within the realm of scientific method, nothing remains impossib
le just highly unlikely. Brownian motion within a table may cause that
table
to reform into a lamp yet it's highly unlikely.
dk> Anything less than 10 to the -50 is considered absurd.
An occult and emotional belief not supported by facts.
dk> Even if you ran your different combinations in the 20
dk> BILLION years, you wouldn't have the TIME to come up
dk> with the right combination.
Another straw-man yet, even so, you're incorrect. In sequential order,
placed
within one nanosecond, one wouldn't need even a percent of that 20 billion
ye
ars you're offering.
In any event, the Earth's star is a second generation star.
Really, Dave... Try to present a reasonable discussion, at least.
~*~ My personal opinion that we were built by something is based
on the available evidence. Since it is an opinion and not
backed up with evidence. -- Bill Wolff
---
* Origin: Creationists: six impossible things before breakfast (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Howard Harkness
Sub: Aids is the Christian pantheon's gift to a sinning humanity
Date: 16 Jan 94 13:30:52
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080c6fd8
REPLY: 1:124/2113@fidonet.org 1390eb75
PID: FM 2.02
Hay!
Welcome back!
SB> Sorry, but Christian morality is the only hope this world
SB> has. To bad to world is going to refuse to follow it.
hh> By their fruits shall ye know them. More human suffering has
hh> been inflicted in the name of Christianity than by any other
hh> 'ism' -- with the possible exception of Islam.
Though the evidence is immutable and entirely clear, you'll never convince
a b
eliever in same deadly ideologies that there is anything wrong with them.
What
I expect you'll see is that Steve Bardard will claim that the Catholic Pope
a
nd all of the people who have murdered, tortures, raped, and burned the
millio
ns of innocent people all down through recorded time were not Christians.
~*~ Most white people can get seriously mutated by just
5 hours of constant direct sunlight. - James Conwell
---
* Origin: Creationists: six impossible things before breakfast (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Careful Eugene
Sub: True colors: black and white
Date: 16 Jan 94 14:02:28
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080c6fd9
REPLY: 1:106/3323.0 2d30bd2c
PID: FM 2.02
ce> I don't expect someone off the street to be able to do it,
ce> but fer Christ's Sakes, 4 year grads who can't do ladder logic?
Hey, wow. We got us one of them ladder logic grunts here in Holland doing
wie
rd, bizzare, and occult things with hardware thingies. Us software types
neve
r stoop so low as to get our hards dirty with that stuff.
He's moving motors for conveyers and sortation machines and I'm telling
him wh
ere to go.
Yet you make the point clearly: There is a marked lack of quality education
b
eing performed in the general populace. The perception is that people are
not
getting what they pay for in higher-level institutions and they're not gettin
g what they _should_ get in the lower-level schools.
~*~ In no way am I your physical or mental inferior and I refuse to
be addressed as one, you drooling asswipe. - Lynne Rosendale
---
* Origin: Creationists: six impossible things before breakfast (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Quarrella
Sub: HYPNOTHERAPY
Date: 16 Jan 94 14:10:37
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080c6fda
REPLY: 1:124/9005 2d30807f
PID: FM 2.02
sq> * To : Stewart Harris
SH> However, two government agencies, because of a device I have
SH> which overcomes gravity without using any energy, have had me
SH> judged mentally incompetent and my passport is being held up
SH> under "administrative review."
I just _love_ conspiracy theories!
sq> Thought some would get a chuckle out of this.
sq> Sorry I didn't catch the original.
The original would be worth money. Does anyone you know have it?
~*~ "Join us on the dark side, Jake." - Questor Thews
---
* Origin: Creationists: six impossible things before breakfast (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Len Ovens
Sub: no not that! Yes, sadly, it's an education
Date: 16 Jan 94 14:12:46
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080c6fdb
REPLY: 1:153/7070.0 2d2f5c00
PID: FM 2.02
AH> God has better things to do than have
AH> conversations with mere humans.
lo> Yes, but then I have better things to do than talk to my son too.
If you're making the attempt to equate the classical Christian pantheon
descri
be in the OT as a 'father/son' relationship, you might have more success
sugge
sting that the time you spend with your son is in killing him were he to
displ
ease you.
I merely mention in, Len. No need to get upset.
~*~ Your immortal soles, corns and all, are in danger of
ever-lasting stewing in the Holy Bile! - David Rice
---
* Origin: Creationists: six impossible things before breakfast (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: John Musselwhite
Sub: Know you from ADAM...
Date: 16 Jan 94 14:45:22
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080c6fdd
REPLY: 1:134/67.0 2d2fcce9
PID: FM 2.02
SL> In reponse to MG: Can you give us any real evidence that Cesar lived,
jm> Do you mean "Caesar"? Which one? Again, it hinges on evidence.
And Augustus, as I recall, ruled for four years under the name Octavian.
(Pardon __my__ spelling! )
~*~ BUT... if I told you that 1+1=1, as idiotic as it seems, until
I am proven wrong I am right. -- Zach Webb, HOLYSMOKE FidoNet
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Joe Schultz
Sub: Real unconvincing evidence
Date: 16 Jan 94 14:48:59
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080c6fde
REPLY: 1:114/262.0 2d308f96
PID: FM 2.02
ML> Then gravity's a god to you?
JS> No. I am smarter than gravity.
DM> Evidence?
js> Elementary, my dear Donson; you responded to me.
Only because Gravity is smart enough not to make outrageous claims.
js> Your Worst Nightmare!
More like your worst daydream.
This claim, also, has been tried before and debunked.
~*~ If Iraq invaded Turkey from the rear would Greece help? - Unknown
---
* Origin: I want to have Steve Winter's baby (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Robert Curry
Sub: Jesse has indeed learned a great deal
Date: 16 Jan 94 16:10:51
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080ff6f9
REPLY: 1:3603/140.4 d3046bf7
PID: FM 2.02
SB> It seems to be more non-theistic rather than atheistic [...]
rc> Haven't you picked up on this fact yet? Keep it up, and you'll be
rc> the next Jesse, saying, "I have learned _nothing_ from my stay here!"
Which is evidenced as false merely due to his marked change in amount of
nonse
nse being spewed.
~*~ Once more: your question is stupid, and I will not answer it.
- Jesse C. Jones
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Robert Curry
Sub: Real vs. imaginary
Date: 16 Jan 94 16:14:02
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080ff6fa
REPLY: 1:3603/140.4 44c3a643
PID: FM 2.02
SB> Alright I have a better one. If I show you both of my hands
SB> and they seem empty can you prove that I am not holding a
SB> hammer in my hands?
He picks a real object to 'support' an argument about an imaginary one.
rc> If I show you both of my hands and they seem empty, can you
rc> prove that I am not holding a magical elf in my hands?
You did much better.
rc> ... "I killed the Greek piper god", Tom deadpanned.
"I can fuck you now," Tom said stiffly.
~*~ Deal with it, pink boy. - Crow T. Robot
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Robert Curry
Sub: Rape and kill for Jesus -- it's the only way to "return them."
Date: 16 Jan 94 16:17:46
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080ff6fb
REPLY: 1:3603/140.4 73ce7eb2
PID: FM 2.02
SB> When He destroyed it was out of necessity and when He punished the
SB> Hebrews it was in order to bring them back to Him.
"Punished" as in "raped then killed their children and then killed their
paren
ts" and "bring them back to it" as in "kill them all so that they could
stand
in judgement after they're dead.
rc> Sounds like some excuse used by husbands who abuse their wifes. It
is
rc> sickening and barbaric, with no redeeming social qualities at all.
rc> Disgusting.
It's amazing that this Christian pig can read his mythologies and find nothing
whatsoever wrong with the lovely morality of rape and murder.
~*~ I fully give him the right to call the Bible a load of bullshit...
Just NOT to someone who believes in it. - Dan Sereduick
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Mike Staab
Sub: And yet another one steps up to the microphone
Date: 16 Jan 94 16:20:24
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080ff6fc
PID: FM 2.02
ms> I don't like to play games, but do enjoy sound reasoning.
ms> Anyone interested?
Why sure!
Was your Judas mythos killed by hanging or by jummping off of a cliff?
~*~ A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle - U2
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Dan Sereduick
Sub: She can handle it
Date: 16 Jan 94 16:26:30
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080ff6fd
REPLY: 1:2617/117 059155b5
PID: FM 2.02
ds> Yes, but it's ludicrous to think that atheism is not a religious
ds> belief, since it does indeed deal with theories about religion.
Oh? And what, please tell, are these mysterious religious 'theories' that
you
are attempting to saddle the more fortunate among us with? Please be specifi
c.
~*~ You could push it for more mileage but your flaps are wearing thin
and
I could sleep on it 'till morning but this nightmare never ends - GNR
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Quarrella
Sub: USA Vs. USSR in "morality"
Date: 16 Jan 94 16:45:12
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080ff6fe
PID: FM 2.02
DR> P.S. Just downloaded DOOM. Disgusting!
sq> Great game. "Catharsis" is written all over it. :)
I thought it had 'B L O O D" written all over it.
What's a file name I can use to download her butt good?
~*~ "Pi = 3, no error at all - Jesus is God, so listen to Paul! With
faith in your Babble, beat Satan at Scrabble! Type things to hide
your illiterate scrawl." - Robert Curry
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Dave Schultz
Sub: Your deities are good! Don't damage the faith!
Date: 16 Jan 94 16:56:22
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 080ff700
PID: FM 2.02
TAW> Debatable, but in any event, is good God?
DS> More than anything else, as good is synonymous with love.
MG> I DARE you to call Steve Quarrella's BBS and
MG> [download] "GOD$LOVE.GIF" from his Holysmoke files area.
sq> Phone number is 214/412-8457.
Don't do it Dave! No one remains a Christian after getting a good look
at wha
t his or her deity is really like. If you have _any_ questions about your
fai
th, I urge you not to even attempt to face the facts. If you're a false
Chris
tian, DON'T LOOK AT THIS PICTURE! You can still be saved if you don't!
~*~ Don't die blondie! Please don't die! You son of a bitch! I'll teach
you! Oh! I'm sorry! Please don't die blondie! - Good, Bad, Ugly
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Zach Bickers
Sub: bible nonsense
Date: 16 Jan 94 20:20:26
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 081441b3
REPLY: 1:106/7315 2D320077
PID: FM 2.02
zb> Heres a good point,"the bible was writing by humans,humans lie1"
zb> whats the responce to that one gonna be?
"Correct your grammer and your spelling and try again."
I have no concept of what you're trying to say.
~*~ The wheels of scientific inquiry and discovery
are greased by caffeine. - Marty Leipzig
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Dave Keeton
Sub: Proofis for pudding
Date: 16 Jan 94 20:42:58
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 081441b4
REPLY: 1:3406/27 52c7d4c2
PID: FM 2.02
dk> Can you prove that God doesn't exsist?
People who are programmed to believe in deities are those who must present
evi
dence for the existance of their deities; it is not up to the better educated
to try to find the invisible pink hippos in your backyard merely because
you t
hink they are present.
dk> It seems that you are quite certain that he doesn't...
Which deity or deities are you suggesting David W. doesn't think exist?
Withou
t putting a name on them, it's rather difficult for the better educated
to kno
w which deities, exactly, you are talking about.
dk> Do you believe in evolution?
No one believes in evolution.
dk> Why? were you there? Did you see it happen?
If you can not ask a meaningful or rational question, Dave, I would suggest
th
at you attempt to educate yourself to the point where you can concoct one.
dk> Those of us who believe the Bible and are convinced that
dk> God does exsist, are not always on the defensive.
Which bible are you talking of, specifically? There are hundreds
of
holy books and your lack of mentioning which one you're talking about makes
t
he better educated individuals within this forum ignore ambiguoius claims.
In any event, if you are spouting occult nonsense about the classical Christia
n mythologies, then you need look only so far as the believes in said mytholog
ies who feel that they need to deny the existance of evolution in a vain
attem
pt to salvage unworkable superstitious beliefs.
You'll also note that all public debates between the better educated and
the b
elievers in the classical Christian mythologies have ended with the sad
and un
timely dismemberment and disembowlement of the poor unfortunate believer
in sa
id mythologies.
dk> I belive that it takes more faith to believe
dk> that all this (look around...) happened by accident.
Only because you believe that it happened by accident.
dk> When you look at the complexity of out
dk> universe, and how everything works with
dk> so little room for error, one cannot
dk> help but wonder if it is the product
dk> of engineering.
It would seem as though you are vastly ignorant as to the rather dismal
amount
of evolutionary genetic garbage in each and every cell of a living thing.
It
would also seen as though you are vastly ignorant of the rather badly aranged
organic biology -- your own body (as much as it disgusts you) is indicitive
o
f the astounding negation of your claim of 'design.'
Either subtract your ignorance or admit that your nasal cavities drain into
yo
ur lungs.
dk> Shalom.
Try again.
~*~ Ok, please explain the difference between facts and truth - J. Conwell
Facts are what the educated accept as truth.
Truths are what fundies are told to accept as fact. - Steve Rose
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: David Rice
Sub: Calling god a liar
Date: 16 Jan 94 20:46:21
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 081441b5
REPLY: 1:124/9005.0 2d284a74
PID: FM 2.02
MC> Looking for contradictions in scripture is looking to
MC> catch God in a lie, because God says the Bible is true.
The Christian pantheon lies worse than Joe Save-lie.
~*~ You act like you've never had love and you want me to go without -
U2
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Comrade Fredric
To: David Rice
Sub: True colors
Date: 16 Jan 94 21:21:08
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 081441b6
REPLY: 1:124/9005.0 2d284ab0
PID: FM 2.02
#include: Derek Clayton
CF> Where are the girls in grass dresses? Where are the
CF> palm trees? They said there would be palm trees and
CF> girls.
dr> "And I'm going to get a. . . recreational vehicle...." []
Yes, and live in Montana. The zampolit? He met with an accident.
'Course the best line was, "They'll give you the Order of Lenin(sp) for
this."
DC> Which explains why so many christians are ethical midgets.
CF> Enforced compliance to dogma and myth may well be window
CF> dressing for the bitter center which seeks only to dictate
CF> others morality for all time.
dr> Er, my opinion is that the average Christian biggot is
dr> altruistic in hir attempts to mandate "morality."
I can't agree to that as a viable alternative in light of Joe Save-lie and
his
recient dictates to the contrary, though. If we're looking at averages,
I w
ould have to conclude by the evidence that the average Christian was an
insecu
re, sexually dysfunctional missfit with delusions of being a bully with
a mob
behind him or her to punish those hateful better educated who taunted them
wit
h undeniable truths into a miserable silence.
This perception isn't simply mine. There are several books delving into
the p
sychology of the Christian. Such works as, "The Mind of the Bible Believer"
c
overs the psychotic lengths believers will go to to violate others to bolster
a sagging faith.
dr> SHe just doesn't see that attempt as the bigotry (based in
dr> fear) that it is. In other words, I believe that they
dr> actually -DO- have our best interests at heart, but they
dr> do not understand that most of us are old enough to look
dr> out for ourselves, thankyouverymuch, and don't appreciate
dr> their attempts to "help" us.
Again, I can't agree. While many individual Christians are that ignorant
and
that stupid, I still must attribute it to direct malice as I refuse to accept
the suggestion that there are millions of such individuals so fundamentally
"broken" and inhuman. Claims to the contrary have been evidenced false.
Scott
Shitfitt -- as have others -- have made claims that their motivations were
to
'save everyone' -- presumably from rational discourse and intelligence.
And, as the sugar coating comes off, we find a hateful little boy hiding
behin
d the mob, stiff dick in hand and malice in mind.
dr> They believe they are saving everyone from drowning,
dr> even though there's no water anywhere. They believe they
dr> "know best" and everyone is less enlightened than they.
That's not the conclusion that the religious zealots invoke among the unaffect
ed here in this forum, though -- or at _minimum_ the perception that I have
is
that it's direct malice.
Claims about homosexuals sum-up the perception nicely;
specifically, the _ideologies_ are faulty and hateful and
so those who subscribe to those ideologies must be.
And, while HolySmoke couldn't be considered real life, it _does_ draw from
the
pool of the living. (Yes, that's highly debatable since __some__ of us
don't
have a life.)
So I can't agree. We could ask yet I would expect more lies.
dr> What you are refering to are minority theist actions. Their mandates
dr> stem from ecotism and the desire to control and manipulate people
dr> for the sake of control and manipulation.
I don't think it's the minority, though.
~*~ Daddy didn't give affection and the boy was something that Mommy
wouldn't wear. - Pearl Jam
---
* Origin: Reality's a bitch. (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: David Rice
Sub: Internet access
Date: 16 Jan 94 21:41:25
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 081441b7
REPLY: 1:124/9005.0 2d284ad8
PID: FM 2.02
#include Questor Thews
QT> AAAAAAAAAAAAUGH! AUGH AUGH AUGH!
FR> A man being subjected to the Total Perspective Vortex?
dr> "No! Wait! What's this switch?!"
"You know; before your planet did the big firework."
dr> [yes, I know it doesn't fit into the conversation.]
This is HolySmoke! Of _course_ it works into the conversation!
QT> TELL me how to GATEWAY fido into INTERNET! I would LOVE to
QT> have this info! GOAT, I would LOVE it!
FR> Questor you ignorant boy slut. Who didn't you sleep with
FR> to get this job, really!
dr> With over 5000 USENET newsgroups to choose from, how the hell
dr> does one find the time to read the 3% or 4% that interests one?!
Beg Star Goat for a list of the message threads that are interesting.
But you're right; there are just so many messages one can read when one
_doesn
't_ have a job. I can imagine what would happen were I to find a job where
I
couldn't have the time to review HS.
dr> I may be missing some important information in
dr> alt.sex.gerbal.ducktape.furry.and.tasty and I'd never know it.
That would be a shame. You could possibly learn something new!
Fer instance: Banana peels.
dr> I'm going to buy another computer, and put The Astro-Net back on
dr> line. Hayes is selling 28.8K modems for $288+ tax and
dr> $10 shipping. I need another 80386 computer with an IDE hard disk.
Sounds grape! _Where_ is it to be put? You need to move out of that place
fi
rst, I would imagine.
dr> I have Maximus 2.02 set up, running FrontDoor and Squish. A few
dr> weeks ago I bought a 340 megabyte hard disk, and I'm running MSDOS
dr> DoubleSpace on it, and the Space Manager add-on: the on-the-fly
dr> disk compression is excellent, and Space Manager knows enough
dr> about files with .ARJ .ZIP .ARC .LZH etc files that it doesn't
dr> bother trying to compress them--- saving time. The 340Meg disk
dr> now looks like a 536Meg disk. With 1Meg of RAM caching the hard
dr> disks, performance is EXCELLENT.
Sounds great! Yet will we find the fun under who consigned you to DOOM!?
dr> The Squish messages do away with the *.MSG files. Which means that
dr> =YOU= will have to convert your message utilities for =MY= use.
I need to add Squish to everything, yep. I _do_ have the file formats already
on The Skeptic Tank. All I need is the incentive.
> I have: 774 atheist files
> 822 evolution and "Creationism" files
> 238 skeptics files
> 162 books on disk
> 491 social/political files
> 136 hate literature files from christians
> 212 "satanic crime" rumor files
> 111 conspiracy files
I could use these.
dr> I deleted the bible because I needed the
dr> room for all of my Satanic literature
A perfectly reasonable level of priorities.
~*~ Let us trust in God who has alway fooled us in the past. - Unknown
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: David Rice
Sub: Camels Kill
Date: 17 Jan 94 10:56:32
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 088ae2b3
REPLY: 1:124/9005.0 2d284af8
PID: FM 2.02
#include Steve Bedard
#include Tony NoseAllah
SB> How about informing us then what the Muslim view of sex is?
FR> That depends upon whether the camel is standing or sitting down.
dr> You're -very- bad.
I forgot about this comment. I should put it into the quote file.
dr> "Nine out of ten Muslims who try Camels prefer women."
I think those facts are grossly biased. }:-}
~*~ If atheism is a religion, then health is a disease. -- Clark Adams
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: David Rice
Sub: "Missing day"
Date: 17 Jan 94 11:04:50
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 088ae2b4
REPLY: 1:124/9005.0 2d284b1e
PID: FM 2.02
dr> [The make landfall. Lots of begats follow. Fair-skined
dr> decendant rebels and makes war. Son enslaves father. Daughter
dr> of Jared in cahoots with the devil. The wicked win a major
dr> battle at Omar, and god accepts defeat graciously [Ether 9:4.]
The Omar wicked didn't happen to have iron, by any chance? }:-}
dr> Through courtly mechanations, the wicked inhabitants of Omar
dr> manage to kill off everyone but 30 godly people. The House of
dr> Emer survives, the the wicked are destroyed. Hurray!]
Break out the wine and rape the survivors for Allah!
dr> 19 And they also had horses, and asses, and there were
dr> elephants and cureloms and cumoms; all of which were useful
dr> unto man, and more especially the elephants and cureloms and
dr> cumoms.
And there you have it. When elephants were unknown, people who saw them
in fa
r away lands and returned to the ignorant to tell of them were in awe.
~*~ D'you wear a black arm band when they shot the man who said
"Peace could last forever" - GNR
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: David Rice
Sub: That Heat
Date: 17 Jan 94 11:20:33
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 088ae2b5
REPLY: 1:124/9005.0 2d284b7e
PID: FM 2.02
JC> Ultraviolet radiation causes mutations in all known lifeforms.
WM> I'm beginning to wonder if he's one of those guys who wraps
WM> himself in tinfoil before he goes outside.
dr> possible?" This troubled him deeply, and he desperately needed
dr> an answer. The idea that he could always take off his hat and
dr> discard it apparently never occured to him. Just as he asked the
dr> psychotherapsit the question, another person walked up and says
dr> "Yes they can, and they do! They've been monitoring my dialogs
Did you catch the PBS show on KCET which was about such mental difficulties
an
d, specifically, covered at length a specific individual who eventually
jumppe
d off of a bridge and killed himself?
There is a group that goes around handing out lunches to mentally disturbed
in
diiduals who live on the street because they often end up in hospitals which
m
erely ship them off to another city for treatment of malnutrition related
dise
ases.
One individual who they covered (in length, as I said) managed to get convince
d to some degree that he needed psychological assistance due to his rather
unu
sual psychotic beliefs about people monitoring him. He had lost his eye
glass
es (he said someone stole it) as an attempt to kill him off by getting him
run
over by a truck that he couldn't see were he to try to cross a street.
When he was given a new set of glasses, he kept asking if there were any
trans
mitters in the frame. As I recall, he managed to get someone to 'steal'
that
set as well. At times he would yell at the camera filming him to turn off
yet
I think that the people who filmed these people to try to gain financial
supp
ort to try to help them merely confirmed the mental cases' suspicions and
"kno
wn facts."
dr> If James Conwell wants to believe that ultraviolet light causes
dr> mutation, we can laught at him, but we can also have compassion
dr> and pitty for him--- his belief is very real to him.
It's entirely real, yes, which is why I had tried my best to stop laughing
at
SpinRonald. I think it's okay to laugh at the clowns as that's what they're
h
ere for and they must not be allowed to infect young minds. Yet when they
are
mentally incomplete, my opinion is that therapy by professionals should
be at
tempted.
~*~ If the theists all shut up, the gods would be speechless. - Robert
Curry
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: STEVE QUARRELLA
Sub: DEMON SEEDS
Date: 17 Jan 94 12:06:48
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 088ae2bf
PID: FM 2.02
JC> You heathens have been predicting,
sq> "Oh, denigrate me...scourge me!"
Yep. I hope Robert painted another fundi on his monitor.
FR> At times I have wondered whether I could get HEATHEN on
FR> a car license plate. In some states I imagine I could yet in
FR> California it would be considered a religious statement.
sq> I'm looking at DFISH m'self. I'll probably be turned down, which is
sq> when I establish the Church and then try again, citing religious
sq> reasons.
DOPFISH would fit but some might think it means "dope" as in drugs.
FR> sq> 'Oh, scourge me. Cut me with a sword. Make me wear a crown
FR> of thorns. sq> Mock me, and hoist me up on a cross.' I bet
FR> There is a great deal of truth in that, according to the
FR> authorships of a variety of books published by Prometheus Books.
sq> Oh, don't we know it, but I would sure
sq> like some good reading. Got a list anywhere?
As usual, Prometheus Books. From what I've heard of "The Mind of the Bible
Be
liever," that's a good place to start when looking into such mental problems.
Alas, so much to read...
~*~ A religionoid cannot use Dove. Dove only sports 1/4 cleansing cream...
and their myth-gawds demand 100% purity. - Steve Rose
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: STEVE QUARRELLA
Sub: GODS AND GODDESSES ARE ALL WET BEHIND THE TAILS
Date: 17 Jan 94 12:14:45
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 088ae2c0
PID: FM 2.02
JCJ> My reference to that friend as a "blasphemous tool of your
JCJ> cunning," now appearing in local taglines, of course referred
JCJ> to _your_ use, and not your goddaughter's, of this friend.
sq> Oh, it's a tool alright, but can you qualify "blasphemous" for
FR> A tool which has been used successfully.
sq> But yet he dares not admit that his make-believe friend is no
sq> different than that of Robert's god-daughter (Gotta change the
sq> name of that title. :).
Strange, huh? Any normal, rational, thinking individual would merely say
eith
er "yes" or "no" and either append disclaimers as needed or not.
sq> Instead, we get the "Many people have
sq> experienced it, so it must be true!" dodge.
I quite liked the "revenge of the nurds" bit. Yep! Part 3.
sq> Yeah? Maybe it was Odin in disguise, wearing the clothes
sq> that Christians created for him (And someone will tell me
sq> that that's silly, I wager.).
No, no. Not at all. Odin was a cross dresser and so was Jesus. I mean,
she
changed her name from the original Isis, after all.
JCJ> Your questions are inane and tiresome.
sq> His evasions are inane and tiresome.
And a single two or three letter word would end RC Query #1. Except that
the
poor individual realizes that, once that one is out of the way, there is
alway
s RC Query #2 -- another question he must not answer truthfully.
FR> Unwillingness and inability. The number of participants he is
FR> unable to face is climbing, I noticed.
sq> It is curious that this potential chauvinist does not address many
sq> of my wife's posts, yet I do not recall her being "hateful" to him.
Well, he never saw them.
FR> soon we'll see nothing but quotes from the classical Christian
FR> mythologies coming from this particular participant.
sq> It comes in cycles. :)
We've had this discussion before about SpinRon. I wonder if there is a
larger
curve or sine wave function superimposed on the wave function. Again, I'm
_c
ertain_ that the data could be made to bear this theory out successfully
yet,
again, my selection for rabidity would be too heavilly biased.
~*~ If accepted I have plans to gather a group of explorers, set out
for foreign soil and tame the savages and goatanize them. - Michael Malon
e
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: STEVE QUARRELLA
Sub: CHILDISH AND EVIL BUNNIES!
Date: 17 Jan 94 12:20:40
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 088ae2c1
PID: FM 2.02
> [Derek Maddox, in absentia]
FR> He holds some bizzare beliefs about reproductive biology
sq> For example?
I tole' ya'! He seems to consider giving birth a punishment for enjoying
one
s reproductive organs to their fullest. He has complained that having an
abor
tion of taking an abortuaium is "not taking responsability" when it is,
in fac
t, being a responsable parent -- by not being one.
It has been a long time since this topic came up in A_Theist and, as you
may i
magine, Moderator kept an eye on it. My recollections are doubtless faulty
ye
t to what degree I couldn't say.
FR> yet he doesn't have the overwhelming need
FR> to inflict it upon everyone else.
sq> If only more could follow his lead...
I am of the opinion that the minority do so.
FR> Did you see our slick lawyer claim that Honest Christians were
FR> those who denounced their Christianity to conform to _our_ rules
FR> of conduct?
sq> The outrage lingers on...
It's time to start thinking about whether America can afford to have so
many l
awyers.
~*~ If I do not have a valid argument, why do you
refuse to answer my question? - Steve Bedard
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: STEVE QUARRELLA
Sub: XENOPHOBIA AND REPRESSION
Date: 17 Jan 94 16:53:59
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 0890cb15
PID: FM 2.02
SQ> I would call the police if he showed up at my door.
sq> I bet that he thinks I'm joking. I'm in dead earnest. Anybody who
sq> claims that he would have no sense of morality without his deities is
sq> in dire need of medical attention, and I wish he would seek out help
sq> before he shoots up a McDonalds.
Agreement. It is no different had the clown stated that, without his invisibl
e pink bunny slippers every night, he would _have_ to "be selfish." For
any ot
her insanity, such individuals would be locked up and looked after. It goes
to
show just how far-reaching the mind-rot goes.
jcj> This is how they treated dissidents in the former Soviet Union, too.
sq> There's the ol' persecution complex again.
I was wondering where the music was coming from.
FR> This being the case, it would be wise for Steve to have such a
FR> madman removed from his doorstep prior to the possibility of
FR> allowing said madman to give evidence to his insanity.
sq> I would not want him to become a non-Christian in my neighborhood.
sq> Seriously. Myself, my wife, and my neighbors are all at risk in such
sq> a case.
One wonders. I would guess that his insanity is not exhibited before a
judge
or within a court room. I would guess that he knows enough to keep from
makin
g such occult claims outside of here. Any bets that he regrets being so
easi
lly manipulated and exposed?
FR> I also wonder if it might be entirely inaccurate to suggest that
FR> you are not actually a practicing lawyer.
sq> Perhaps a "criminal lawyer"? :)
Redundant. }:-}
~*~ If atheism is a religion, then health is a disease. -- Clark Adams
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: STEVE QUARRELLA
Sub: RELIGION OF DAN
Date: 17 Jan 94 16:56:24
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 0890cb16
PID: FM 2.02
mb> You're not, you're a deist.
ds> No, I do not worship a deity.
FR> Neither do deists. We have two known deists in this forum.
sq> One of whom admittedly tends to create "god" in his own
sq> image...shit, creating something this big and then walking
sq> away with a can of Foster's in hand is something that I
sq> would do if I could get away with it.
Create a deity and then claim that it's Miller Time. No wonder
so m
uch beer is consumed in America.
~*~ If I shoot his wife because I'm trying to scare him out of his
hiccups, I haven't really killed her. - Jason Rosendale
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Quarrella
Sub: Backwards Masking
Date: 17 Jan 94 17:00:41
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 0890cb17
PID: FM 2.02
DC> real religious. Anyhow, it's rather neat how they take a
DC> collection and place all the cash in front of the altar.
sq> I never noticed that...speaks volumes though, doesn't it?
Oh there's no doubt that money is what it's all about for some preachers.
sq> "Send a donation straight to God, 1-800-TOL-FREE!"
That number was "1-800-TAX-FREE."
DC> You never see a politician placed in the basket.
sq> I'd love to drop a copy of MEIN KAMP into the plate.
Or something from Dawkin.
~*~ We already have the necessary proof - the Scriptures. God has already
told us what happened. Why do we need further proof. - Derek Williams
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Quarrella
Sub: More DOOM lunacy
Date: 17 Jan 94 17:17:05
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 0890cb18
PID: FM 2.02
sq> You will be happy to know that I for one support you. ID made
sq> the game so that you DESTROY demons. I mean, if you had been killing
sq> people to take over the base in the name of Satan, then the game would
sq> have been satanic.
WHAT A WONDERFUL IDEA!!! Get right on it, Steve!!!
sq> Well, as one Christian... ...I do miss hosing Nazis and stuff.
Like my out-of-context quote?
DS> Yeah! I'm with you! Even the S/W version has the Star-In-Circle
DS> symbol all over- the end level is SHAPED like it!!
Clowns incapable of realizing a pagan symbol from a Christian (Satanic)
one.
CB> What did you expect in Hell? Altar boys and holy water???
Another good quote!
?> Are you saying satanic stuff is OK?!?! I'd think that
?> even an atheist would be repulsed by it.
Then he's not thinking.
?> But it's helping to twist the minds of those who
?> play it into consenting to this garbage.
It's certainly helped twist the minds of the believers in 'Satan.'
?> As the shareware screen says, I'll probably go to hell anyway, so why
?> not get to know the place (or something like that) before I come back
?> to make my return visit?
Now that's funny!
jcj?> You're justifying their blasphemy.
Jesse? That you, boy?
?> Not to impose, but you should try reading The Bible. There's no
?> obligation in it to do anything. Just give it a read. It's very
?> eye-opening.
Now that's an understatement!
~*~ The argument from ignorance does not point to a goddess...it
points to ignorance. - Tyler A. Wunder
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: David Rice
Sub: Christmas Card
Date: 17 Jan 94 19:10:40
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 08920507
REPLY: 1:124/9005.0 2d29aa3c
PID: FM 2.02
SQ> This happened to me when I wore my kilt to work once.
SQ> Amazing what people fear, eh? A man in a skirt, fer Goat's sake.
dr> "Par for the course" in California (men in skirts).
Not of late. If I had known that you clowns were going to hold an earthquake,
I would not have shipped my family back the same morning.
SQ> They fear challenges to authority. :)
dr> We had someone here who was fired and escorted out of the building
dr> because he was antisocial and violent. He called up later and
dr> threatened to crash the company picnic and empty an assault rifle
dr> at the attendees.
Some lawyer who lost his deity, no doubt.
~*~ though we do not accept homosexuals into the church
that does not make us bigots - Dan Lafferty
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: David Rice
Sub: USA Vs. USSR in "morality"
Date: 17 Jan 94 19:22:23
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 08920509
REPLY: 1:124/9005.0 2d2a024c
PID: FM 2.02
dr> RADIATION OUTRAGE. U.S. government used people
dr> as nuclear guinea pigs. By Deirdre Griswold
I've written this group to see about subscribing to their magazine.
How is it that you acquire copies?
Also, what's the fastest land animal on Earth?
~*~ I'm a lot less judgemental than you. - Martin Goldberg
I'll be the judge of that. - Marty Leipzig
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Rose
Sub: Crustian Coal
Date: 17 Jan 94 19:24:21
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 0892050a
REPLY: 1:109/601 2d321eb0
PID: FM 2.02
JS> Scared Good....
sr> Fine. Hope it cured your hiccups.
Joe is a kitten venting his outgage at a ball of string.
He's harmless.
~*~ Good grief. Guess he's never read the bible he is thumping. - David
Rice
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: David Rice
Sub: Bro' Jed.
Date: 17 Jan 94 19:34:53
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 0892050b
REPLY: 1:124/9005.0 2d32cc42
PID: FM 2.02
dr> In the universe of Brother Jed, fornication is rampant in the
dr> dormitories, and fraternity/sorority houses are virtual Gomorrohs.
Oh man, I wish! He is of the opinion of many people, though. A study
(condu
cted in Florida, no doubt) which asked people what age group of people engage
in sexual activity the most varried depending upon the age group; specifically
, all other age groups targeted others. They did this because they knew
that
they were not getting fucked, someone must be, so it's in the younger or
older
generation.
dr> In addition, any Brother Jed utterance of the word "fornication" is
dr> accompanied by a peculiar hand motion on each syllable. Of course,
dr> the entire crowd joins in on "fornication".
What fun! I wonder if he could be reached to attend special sessions.
dr> who listens to any of the following: The Who, Led Zeppelin, the
dr> Grateful Dead, the Rolling Stones, Rush, Van Halen, and especially
dr> "that pervert", MICK JAGGER.
Ah, good. "Buns and Hoses" are safe.
dr> "Hey! You in the red sweater! How many
dr> men have you slept with this week?"
"Not as many as you," she said.
-=- This "Brother Jed" sounds like a good listen.
~*~ No need to pity me. Jesus gives me all the help I need. - Steve Bedard
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Dan Ceppa
Sub: Backwards Masking
Date: 17 Jan 94 21:04:03
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 08950607
REPLY: 1:350/401 86252AD6
PID: FM 2.02
DC> I took my aunt to mass Christmas eve.
SQ> Oh, you're hateful!
dc> Yeah, very un-X-tian thing to do, wasn't it? Should
dc> have made her walk the 15 miles to mass. :)
Then set the dogs on her like a "True Atheist."
~*~ "Onward Xtain soldiers"...like the Iraqi army. - Marty Leipzig
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Dan Ceppa
Sub: Fact vs. Faith
Date: 17 Jan 94 21:10:38
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 08950608
REPLY: 1:350/401 86252AD7
PID: FM 2.02
dc> If you think this is going in circles, your only half right.
You've taken off on a tangent.
~*~ Look at that mama; she's got it sticking in the
camera! Man.... I wish I had some - D.S.
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Dan Ceppa
Sub: Mormallity
Date: 17 Jan 94 21:17:05
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 08950609
REPLY: 1:350/401 86252AD8
PID: FM 2.02
dc> into one of the groups. From what you are saying, it
dc> seems as if the polygamy, though offially banned by the
dc> Mormon hierarchy, is at least tolerated. Or, are they
dc> splinter groups that do not abide by the main stream edicts?
There are, indeed.
Recall some years back when there were two 'prophets' vieing for political
clo
ut within a Mormon enclaive in some inbred township somewhere in Utah which
ma
de the national news for human rights violations (and many civil and constitut
ional violations, of course.)
This township had one of the old dispossessed 'prophets' still leading
this band of zealots -- the guy in question was into his late 70's and was
bas
ically even more the dottering fool he had been much of his life (though
not,
it seems, quite so foolish as his followers.)
His death was expected but his Mormon cult followship wasn't quite willing
to
give up the ghost and have some other Mormon 'prophet' take over this township
s Mormon cult control. So, as the rest of the idiotic Mormon cult around
the
United States tossed out the old 'prophet' and usshered in the new 'prophet,'
these clowns managed to cut themselves off from the rest of the world whereaf
ter they institutionalized polygamy and had set up a commune where _everything
_ belonged to the old 'prophet.'
My facts are in disorder yet that's what happened. I suspect that there
remai
ns a great deal more of this since, after all, we're talking about a rather
la
te-commer to the Jesus mythos cults.
~*~ No, the reason that you tout it is your conscience an
stand it better then Life from Life. - Ron Stringfellow
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Dan Ceppa
Sub: Poof the magic bunny
Date: 17 Jan 94 21:36:09
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 08958fc7
REPLY: 1:350/401 86252AD9
PID: FM 2.02
DK> universe, and how everything works with so little room for error,
DK> one cannot help but wonder if it is the product of engineering.
dc> Seems like the engineer could have done a better job. All
dc> those earthquakes and volcanoes. Sure messes up the neighborhood.
And, to judge by the many astroblems on the Earth, his deities seemed to
have
quite a bit of difficulty providing an environment for their 'creation'
safe f
rom meteors.
Amazing that people can look at the flaws and not seem them.
~*~ First we'll spank your big behinds.. then we'll
twist your little minds... - Styx
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Quarrella
Sub: Your daily chuckleth
Date: 17 Jan 94 21:57:51
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 08958fc8
PID: FM 2.02
sq> Hwaet, Fredric!
Onzin! (My Dutch is _NOT_ improving; neither my spelling nor grammer.)
FR> Sadly, Master Stokes had fled a long time ago to find people
FR> more, um, well, er, willing? to believe that English was the
FR> language of the time.
Hay! A X-Post! Totally neat.
sq> The sad thing is that, as is the wont with the Fundamentalist
sq> lot, he'll find plenty of suckers who WILL believe him, even
sq> with damning evidence to the contrary (We'll get the tried
sq> and true "Were you around at the time?
Alas, there is a great deal of truth in the words that you did 'speak.'
How m
any participants within this very Educatioal forum we al know and love as,
"Ho
lySmoke" actually believe the same thing?
Or worse? That the psycho-babble commonly refered to as "tounges" means
that
_anyone_ who hears it actually hears it in his or her domestic language?
I'm glad you're around to show the utter stupidity in such claims. I don't
th
ink that anyone else around here is qualified to debunk them with any degree
o
f authority.
sq> How do you know it didn't exist?"
The wee little people? Seriously, there is an idea growing in my
mind
. (No! Really! There is!) Expect network mail. (Or, to be accurate,
expec
ted network mail as you'll have it already.)
sq> Of course, it'll get silent when I ask "How do you know
sq> that the Jesus of the Bible didn't exist?").
As _someone_ is often found saying, "wacka-wacka-wacka."
sq> I am by no means a Germanic scholar -- I've only been interested
sq> in Germanic languages for the past several years, going back and
sq> forth between Old and Middle English -- but good grief, it doesn't
sq> require any more knowledge than that which is imparted in a
sq> freshman English course to know that an allegation of "English
sq> was spoken during Biblical times" is idiotic at best.
We're talking about people who thought that humans had only one language
prior
to one of their myths -- the "tower of Babble" (or something equally silly.)
Is it really so strange that some think _English!_ (for Goat's Sake!) was
the
world language?
sq> Good grief, even in my high school history course we had to
sq> know that William the Conqueror's little trip was largly
sq> responsible for steering the language of the Saxons towards
sq> what it is today.
Well, _I_ don't know diddly about the advent of language other than to note
th
at dictionaries cover the useage and does not set the language. 'And that
wor
ds are adopted and mutated. "Salt, sugar, and <-gasp-> pepper" are all
very c
losely spelled and pronounced the same so perhaps some idiot will look at
them
and claim that this is "proof" of a commpn language. Which it is, perhaps,
y
et not English.
FR> There had also been comments about how the use of English around
FR> the world -- being taught in high schools and such -- was a 'sign'
FR> that the second coming of one of his heros was ever-more-so at hand.
sq> Hardly.
If someone sets out to look for signs, someone always finds them.
FR> second, well... I would guess that a myth can return
FR> reguardless of the languages spoken around the planet -- if
sq> I've been trying to dig up the copy of BEHOLD THE MAN I offered to John
sq> Musselwhite before we moved, but I need to send you a copy as well.
You keep harping about it. Surely I could find a copy if I ever return
to the United States. (If I do; Fascism is growing in the U. S. yet it's
also
growing here in Europe.)
sq> In it, the protagonist journeys back through time to search for
sq> Jesus, and even HE speaks Aramaic (NOT English) to the Essenes
sq> he encounters. In fact, there's a hilarious sequence when Glogauer
sq> (the protagonist) speaks Latin to a group of Roman soldiers, who
sq> are puzzled by his hoity-toity pronunciation of the language (Coming
sq> from someone who appears to be an Essene, no less!).
It's as much an insider joke to me since I lack any understanding. Yet
it's g
rounded in fact. Soldiers are not generally considered the best educated
of a
populace in any culture though I may be entirely inaccurate.
FR> correcting mine. There was much discussion about the
FR> use of the word "pisseth" and the appending of the "eth"
FR> uponeth many words wicheth just don'teth makeths much senseth
FR> linguistically.
sq> Don Martin can probably correct me here, but if memory
sq> serves, that -eth is simply a remnant from Old English.
Which was never in the classical Christian mythologies until, what? the
17'th
century? John Musselwhite could probably set the history straight about
the l
anguage used in the various versions of the Christian bible.
~*~ Any religion that rejects coffee worships a false god. - Unknown
---
* Origin: Reality's a bitch. (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Steve Quarrella
Sub: Even *more* DOOM lunacy
Date: 17 Jan 94 22:06:23
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 08958fca
PID: FM 2.02
CJ> The problem I have with it is the `demonic influence'. It is
CJ> offensive to many and not necessary.
sq> It certainly is necessary. Has Elwood missed the point of
sq> the game? As for the 'demonic influence', it is also inoffensive
sq> to many.
It looks like many did miss the point. Some Christians pointed at the idiots
who denounced it as 'satanic' and called them idiots -- I'm glad to see.
~*~ I still can't make heads or tails or heads or
tails or heads or tails. . . out of it. - David Rice
---
* Origin: Reality's a bitch. (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: jonny vee
Sub: Lightbulbs & X-tians
Date: 17 Jan 94 22:13:04
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 08958fcb
REPLY: 1:215/606@Fido 050e896e
PID: FM 2.02
jv> Could it be that you are not fully "describing your deities the way
jv> christians describe them", and are instead using a more limited
jv> description in order to provide yourself a more defensible position?
That's exactly what Steve Badard is doing in this particular instance.
The la
ck of specifications about what his deities are, do, and have done, is the
cla
ssical escapist vehicle of theists who recognize that making unambiguous
claim
s leads to the disassemblement of badly-needed faith.
Historically, making specofic claims about a deity kills it in time. It
is no
wonder that theists have to shove them someplace inaccessable in order to
kee
p them safe from fact.
~*~ "Menacing atheists approach! Quick - hide the god, hide the god!"
- RC
"No, not there, they'll look there. Quick, behind the big bang, and
pray they didn't bring Hawking with them!" - Hector Plasmic
---
* Origin: I want to have Steve Winter's baby (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Mike Apoc
Sub: Prove A Negative?
Date: 17 Jan 94 22:17:57
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 08958fcc
REPLY: 1:134/67.0 2d320d9d
PID: FM 2.02
Greetings, Mike!
Welcome to HolySmoke! Light 'em if you' got 'em.
ma> Greetings, Steve. You were saying to Fredric Rice...
SB> But if you can not prove a negative, how can you prove that the flood
SB> or virgin birth never happened, much less that the Christian God does
SB> not exist?
ma> Simple.
Well, with Steve, it's never quite so simple.
ma> You make the claims, he debunks them.
ma> Eventually, you are left with nothing.
There was a lengthy discussion and eventual disembowelment about a particular
"virgin birth" myth which Steve has yet to admit is as pure to 100% bunk
as ma
kes no never mind. Though myths are at times easilly debunked or at times
re
quires a great deal of effort (many people researched the myth and posted
the
origins and use of the word used for 'virgin') Steve __still__ refuses to
ackn
owledge his error.
~*~ We tend to idealize tolerance, then wonder why we find ourselves
infested with losers and nut cases. -- PATRICK HAYDEN
---
* Origin: I want to have Steve Winter's baby (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Michael Malone
Sub: Mike Warnke
Date: 17 Jan 94 22:27:52
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 08958fcd
REPLY: 1:114/7.0 d32f48d0
PID: FM 2.02
mm> I still maintain that:
mm> a) Pornography is designed to titillate.
mm> b) It is does not matter what the material is.
mm> c) grossly repressed, christians use stories of ritual abuse,
mm> domination, demon possession, etc. in this capacity.
FR> My opinion is that your premises and conclusions has a great
FR> deal of merit. The use of Christianity as a substitute for
FR> sexuality even as the ideologies demand sexual dysfunction
FR> fits in well with your conclusions.
mm> Very good point.
mm> Rome at this moment is feeling the pain of forced exual repression.
Their rather embarrassing problem with clergy sexually mollesting boys and
gir
ls is epidemic, isn't it? Do you have any idea as to percentages or numbers?
The review on PBS called, "Sins of the Fathers" didn't get into percentages
p
er Christian brand name and I would __love__ to encounter such figures.
mm> I would be very interested to know where
mm> the idea of celibacy for jesus came from.
No pun noticed. It __is__ bizzare since the Jesus mythos used
to be
female and, specifically, the Goddess Isis who was the rebirther. The celebra
tion of the yearly rebirth of the planet was remade into Easter which, as
I re
call, is the rebirth/reanimation of the Jesus mythos.
The eggs and bunnies at Easter are the actual origin of the myth. It is
laugh
able that contemporary Christians are at times led to believe that their
Jesus
mythos never engaged in sex when that's what they're celebrating in an off-be
at way every Easter. Seems kind of strange.
mm> Something in the back of my mind tells me that it was born
mm> from papal scandal in the 1600's. If I recall correctly,
mm> that pope had many children that were not the product of a
mm> sanctioned union.
Oh!? I'll bet I could ask a couple of groups who research such things what
th
ey have on it. I'll do that as it's interesting. If I find anything, I'll
po
st it to "All" under the subject, "Papal Bastards."
~*~ Find your peace, find your say, find the smooth road on your way.
Trust you gave, a child to save, left you cold and him in grave.
- METALLICA
---
* Origin: I want to have Steve Winter's baby (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: James Conwell
Sub: Ron is a Christian just like you are
Date: 17 Jan 94 22:31:59
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 08958fce
REPLY: 1:106/7512 d181f82f
PID: FM 2.02
FR> And Steve Bedard will not disappear either even as he spouts his
FR> claims that virgin births are possible. So much for failing to see
FR> any theist refuse scientific facts in a stupid (and often
FR> entertaining) way.
jc> Virgin births are possible.
No one here is in denial.
It happens all of the time, James, and is quite common.
jc> Admit it or be declared a "Fundy".
Oh come now, James. It's an honorable label. Live with it and smile more.
~*~ Origin: MARANATHA! NETWORK, KILLING FOR JESUS! (1:102/890) - FLR
I wonder if a Fido Policy complaint against your node would work?
If not, prayer will. - Martin Riley
---
* Origin: Creationists: six impossible things before breakfast (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Marty Leipzig
Sub: Question for the Better Educated
Date: 17 Jan 94 22:41:04
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 08958fcf
PID: FM 2.02
MG> You got me. All objects in free fall will accelerate at 32 ft/sec^2.
MG> there is a maximum to this but I forget what that maximum velocity is.
ml> It's called terminal velocity, i.e., that velocity demonstrated
ml> by an errant Delta airliner before it pancakes into DFW.
You're both badly wrong! Delta usually has its planes at full military
thrust
when their pilots decide that they've had enough of this Earthly toil --
that
is if they still have their engines. (At the last one in DFW in 1984, wind-
sheer set it down; I don't think that the pilot suicided-out on that one.)
~*~ Fundies are proof that evolution is an unguided phenomena. - Marty
Leipzi
g
---
* Origin: Creationists: six impossible things before breakfast (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Marty Leipzig
Sub: OUT OF CONTEXT...
Date: 17 Jan 94 22:42:52
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 08958fd0
PID: FM 2.02
rc> ... "141, 142, 143, 144!" she counted grossly.
FR> "Argh! Ack! Greck!" he said heartlessly.
ml> "Whoops. I just dropped a running chain saw." he said offhandedly.
FR> "I just don't give a rat's ass," she said carelessly.
ML> "Just look at all that waste oil swirling down the sewer!",
ML> said Dwayne uncutously.
DM> "Space really IS a vacuum!" he said breathlessly.
ml> "I'm falling at 32'/sec/sec!", he said, reflecting the gravity
ml> of the situation.
"I may fuck you now," Tom said stiffly.
~*~ They're not evil, they're just.... stupid. - Spaced Invaders
---
* Origin: I want to have Steve Winter's baby (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Marty Leipzig
Sub: A HolySmoker's Dyslexicon
Date: 17 Jan 94 22:55:34
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 08958fd1
PID: FM 2.02
DC> What happened to X Y & Z? After all, that's the
DC> Church I started awhile back...
ml> I saw little mention of xenobiology, ytterbium and Z ê bosons
ml> from the local fundy populace. Gotta stop somewhere.
That sounds like a problem that I had with Pi mesons. They have mass, read
th
eir bibles, and couldn't describe Pi-circular orbits. No wonder there is
some
thing fundamentally wrong with the universe.
"He hit me in the mouth with an ax!" Tom grinned broadly.
~*~ You're dangerous 'cause you're honest - U2
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Marty Leipzig
Sub: The One True Expert! Part 1
Date: 17 Jan 94 23:11:30
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 08958fd3
PID: FM 2.02
ml> After the gushing simmered down, Cliff asked him about the relative
ml> dolomitization of the superincumbant strata just below the
ml> nonconformity.
ml>
ml> The silence was deafening.
I'll bet. No crickets anywhere to be had, I would guess?
What you've described is _perfect_. Give yourself and your friends a "well
do
ne," please, from myself with my thanks. You allowed the faithful to do
thei
r own conclusions which is just so very lovely and, more to the point, __ratio
nal__.
I would like to submit your account to SKEPTIC, if I may; the publication
that
comes out of Cal. Poly Tech., if you don't mind. I'll send you a copy of
the
publication or have Mister Shermer forward you some copies if it's printed.
I'll forward this request to your system and please let me know whether
you
would rather not have it published or if you might want some names changed.
It's a wonderful piece!
~*~ Billy Graham has done more harm to the cause of christianity
than any man alive. - Christianity Today (x, no.13, 1 April 1966)
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Ariadne
Sub: Virgin Idiots
Date: 18 Jan 94 08:05:06
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 0907ea6a
REPLY: 1:153/826 52c732e2
PID: FM 2.02
FR> mysticism and then demand that they're Pagan. When I heard
FR> Awhatshername say that Pagans and/or Wiccans 'sacrifice'
FR> animals, the immediate conclusion was that she was very much
FR> mistaken and holds not a clue what Pagans do.
a> To point out, I've been pagan for about 10 years, Wiccan for 6, and a
a> High Priestess for 2. I've worked hard at what I do, and if you don't
a> like it and can't deal with it, then go suck someone else's cunt!
So much for addressing any inaccurate comments in my post. If you can not
rat
ionally defend your faulty understanding of Pagani, rather than spout nonsense
and vulgarities at those who know better, try _researching_ what it is,
exact
ly, you're professing to believe in.
So-called "New rAge Mystics" have polluted Pagani and Wicca to the point
where
even claims of "animal sacrifice" is actually believed by some who profess
to
be Pagans or Wiccans. You shouldn't do your friends the disservice of making
such claims and then failing to address them rationally.
~*~ ... Here, kitty, kitty, kitty....
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Jesse C. Jones
Sub: Emptiness redux
Date: 18 Jan 94 08:14:31
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 0907ea6b
REPLY: 1:135/71.0 2d2a3168
PID: FM 2.02
jcj> I see you have learned Curry's trick of repeating questions to
jcj> which you don't like my answers, as if I had never answered, and
jcj> never responding to the substance of my answers.
In the 800+ messages on this system, I seem to have failed to see you answer
R
C Query #1 truthfully. Would you please restate for the court what your
hone
st, rational answer was?
Thank you in advance.
jcj> DO YOU KNOW HOW TO LOOK INSIDE YOURSELF?
Find a good surgen with a video recorder.
jcj> Observe the human condition.
Rather gullible and sadly ignorant for the most part, it would seem. The
requ
irement of a crutch is perfectly understandable yet points to, (in my opinion)
-- not a weakness but to a lack of willingness to learn.
jcj> The evidence is all around you, Steve.
Only for the better educated. Those without evidence try to manufacture
it in
their own minds.
~*~ Your immortal soles, corns and all, are in danger of
ever-lasting stewing in the Holy Bile! - David Rice
---
* Origin: But in your heart you know it's flat. (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Jesse C. Jones
Sub: The Reign of God is at hand! Start the murders of the infidels!
Date: 18 Jan 94 08:22:40
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 0907ea6c
REPLY: 1:135/71.0 2d2a316b
PID: FM 2.02
jcj> It is time for people to call on the name of God and join
jcj> together in working for God's reign to make things right.
That was tried in the 13'th to 17'th century, Jesse Torqueamada Jones.
It did
n't work then and it certainly won't work now when there are well over 250
mil
lion firearms in America.
Fascist religious zealots who want to "make things right" will have to start
t
he killing __now__ in order to prolong their eventual dieing-out. You can
not
prevent the end of your particular tyranical religion, you can only prolong
i
t by mounting ever more bloody campains against the better educated.
SQ> Where is your Messiah, Jesse?
jcj> Among us. The Reign of God is at hand.
Yep. That's what every generation since three days after the
Isi
s mythos was hung from a tree has been saying.
jcj> Those who follow Christ are called to take up Christ's cross.
Good grief. Religious zealots are faintly disgusting.
~*~ If I prove there is a God, will you shut up? - Stewart Harris
---
* Origin: Just how often _was_ Jesus a boy-toy? (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Greg Nienaltowski
Sub: Aids Kills
Date: 18 Jan 94 08:27:38
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 0907ea6d
REPLY: 1:2410/278 02848aeb
PID: FM 2.02
gn> "My son, if I am wrong, I have but wasted 70 years, 1 life in
gn> billions that don't matter, but if I am RIGHT, you will have
gn> wasted an eternity for 70 years of self-indulgance."
Actually, thinking that there are deities who 'look after' one and worshipping
those deities to gain their favors is highly self-indulgent. More to the
poi
nt, creating thousands of deities to try to give an "ultimate reason" for
exis
tance is highly egotistical and self-serving.
Your atheist friend in the story about would then go on to say:
"Well, father, you had better start believing in two thousand
other gods and goddesses because, if you're just trying to
cover your ass, you seem to have missed most of them."
gn> I'd say it takes at LEAST a lot of GUTS
gn> to be sure there is no God, if not faith...
Not at all. It only takes a continued capacity for critical thought.
~*~ Danger's a drug that takes you higher - U2
---
* Origin: Just how often _was_ Jesus a boy-toy? (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Greg Nienaltowski
Sub: Christian Wrongs
Date: 18 Jan 94 08:32:36
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 0907ea6e
REPLY: 1:2410/278 02848aec
PID: FM 2.02
SS> * Freedom to share the Gospel on campus.
SS> * Freedom to handout Gospel tracts on campus.
SS> * Freedom to engage in voluntary school prayer.
DC> All the above are not covered by the Constitution. You may
gn> Try substituting 'chess' for Christian and Gospel.
Chess is not covered in the United States Constitution as against the law.
Nei
ther is playing Chess or the game of chess a deity-oriented religion (except
t
o a few.)
gn> without the slightest uproar by the backgammon players. If Unis. and
gn> government s can tolerate these hobbies, why are you opposed to people
gn> practicing their religion in the same way? In what way is what Scott
gn> stated infringing on someone elses rights?
You've launched a "red herring." Dan is not complaining about a rather
deadly
hobby and neither is he complaining about chess. He is merely pointing
out t
hat the Constitution of the United States mandates that the State not establis
h a religion.
Also, Dan is not stating that public school grounds and classrooms are to
be e
xcluded from use by believers in occult mythology. He is stating that the
Con
stitution of the United States dictates that such occult nonsense be conducted
and participated in outside of class time.
SS> * Freedom to be a living witness for Jesus Christ.
DC> As long as you witlessness does not infringe on others
DC> that do not want to partake in your drivel.
gn> Say that to a gay activist.
Explain yourself, please.
~*~ If accepted I have plans to gather a group of explorers, set out
for foreign soil and tame the savages and goatanize them. - Michael Malon
e
---
* Origin: Just how often _was_ Jesus a boy-toy? (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Kelsey Bjarnason
Sub: It's Just Amazing! Seven! Count 'em yourself!
Date: 18 Jan 94 09:01:13
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 0907ea6f
REPLY: 1:153/7715.0 2d2794d8
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Now that's so very strange. Didn't you claim that you had
FR> only one deity not too long ago? Thereafter I listed all
FR> seven of them to which you continued to wine and wimper?
kb> Seven? Could you list them again? I missed it... ;)
I include the concept of "angels" and "disembodied spirits" among the Christia
n pantheon as objects of deification. I might also make a case that there
are
13 due to the confounding of 'Lucifer,' 'Satan,' 'Loki,' 'Pan,' and Prometheu
s' and the confounding of 'Mithra,' 'Isis,' and 'Jesus.' We could add another
for the deity of the OT and one for the NT as well.
I'll settle for four and reach for seven:
o The deity called 'father-OT/father-NT'
o The deity called 'Jesus/Isis/Mitra'
o The deity called 'holy ghost'
o The deity called 'Satan/Lucifer/Loki/Pan/Prometheus'
These are a bit of a reach yet I'll continue to argue the point:
o The deified goddess called 'Mary/Lillith/Eve'
o The sub-pantheon titled 'angels'
o The sub-pantheon of deified mortals called 'spirits'
And if we want to include further confounding of beliefs:
o The Goddess Hel who was confounded with her domain of rule
Christians will complain greatly that these are not 'deities' nor are they
act
ivly 'worshipped.' Some are and some are not yet they are _all_ part of
the c
ontemporary Christian pantheon reguardless of whether they wish to acknowledge
the fact or not.
~*~ Butting heads with fundies is best left to Goats - Styx Allum
---
* Origin: Just how often _was_ Allah a boy-toy? (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Kelsey Bjarnason
Sub: You laughed... {sob!}
Date: 18 Jan 94 09:04:02
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 0907ea70
REPLY: 1:153/7715.0 2d27ac1a
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Why don't you just post a general query to 'all' as ask
FR> them if they're here seeking "truth." It's highly probable
FR> that only the occultists among us will claim that they seek
FR> "truth" rather than knowledge.
kb> Truth is what we want it to be. Reality simply is.
That's _much_ too profound for HolySmoke. }:-}
~*~ Your immortal soles, corns and all, are in danger of
ever-lasting stewing in the Holy Bile! - David Rice
---
* Origin: Just how often _was_ Allah a boy-toy? (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Kelsey Bjarnason
Sub: The Fact And Theories Of didilly squatt
Date: 18 Jan 94 09:16:30
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 0907ea71
REPLY: 1:153/7715.0 2d27b5f8
PID: FM 2.02
FR> Fact is that which is positivly evidenced.
FR> It is that which is falsifiable and which
FR> has survived the tests placed against it.
kb> Hmm. I'd have to debate the latter half of this.
Oh, do you have to?
kb> That the sun has the appearance of rising is a fact. What
kb> method can you propose to falsify this? It can't be done.
It's quite easilly done. Venus is a quite useful tool for providing all
the e
vidence that should be required to support the contention that the Earth
is re
volving (and that it orbits Sol, by the way.)
When Sol occludes a bright star (Sirus or Vega, for example) or when it
occlud
es Venus or Jupiter, the geometry of the planetary motions in relationship
to
Sol fail big tyme. Occultations observed work perfectly when planetary
motion
s are plotted against an Earth orbiting the Sun and only work well with
a Sun
that does not orbit the Earth.
Sideral motion is also plotted against the backdrop of stars using measurement
s acquired twice a year -- at both ends of the eliptical orbit. We see
the Su
n in movement within the Sagitarius galactic arm, dragging its planets along
w
ith it.
kb> A fact is self-demonstrating. It simply is, irrelevant of any
kb> beliefs, attempts at explanation, or other shilly-shallying.
Believers in a creationist mythology will complain that the creation they
beli
eve in _is_ self-demonstrating.
FR>~*~ The sun is covered in bright green puppy dogs.
FR> Martians have taken over the US government. - Kelsey Bjarnason
kb> I made it? Hmm. A dubious honour, considering
kb> the silliness of the statement. :]
I've _seen_ Nancy Regan. Martians _have_ taken over the government.
~*~ I see faith in your eyes, never you hear the discouraging lies. I hear
faith in your cries. Broken is the promise. Betrayal. - METALLICA
---
* Origin: But in your heart you know it's flat. (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: jonny vee
Sub: Atheists can't read...
Date: 18 Jan 94 09:18:50
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 0907ea72
REPLY: 1:215/606@Fido 02802452
PID: FM 2.02
rv> It is very simple. I neither believe nor disbelieve in the existence
rv> of any God. I am completely neutral. Unbiased. Objective.
rv> Insufficient data.
jv> Haw! Have you noticed, Robert, how difficult it is to
jv> get a simple "yes" or "no" answer around this place?
Yes.
~*~ Fundies are like the Borg: Separate them from the rest of the
collective consciousness and they malfunction. :)
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: David Rice
Sub: Circular... Hardly.
Date: 18 Jan 94 09:22:24
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 0907ea73
REPLY: 1:124/9005.0 2d2af88c
PID: FM 2.02
#include Akonyte Napellus
AH> Christianity can only be disproven to someone seeking it to
AH> be disproved.
FR> Incorrect. Mathematical proofs do not apply to mental
FR> constructs of unevidenced deities. Evidence is what you're
FR> thinking of, perhaps. And in any event, Christianity is but
FR> one of hundreds of contemporary deity-oriented religions
FR> which may boast of an embarrassing lack of evidence for
FR> support.
dr> Did you see December's _Scientific_American_? "The Death of Proof."
Is that an American publication? (Willfully ignorant trying to complaint
off-
handedly about my exile.) Yet: Nope. SA is quite expensive here.
dr> Either the author was horribly edited, or I mistake what
dr> he was saying, or he was making a case that "proof" is social
dr> even in the numerical context (i.e. your "mental constructs"
dr> above). If it yields results, it's proof enough for me. Every
dr> time I add 2 plus 3, I always get 5.
It sounds a bit like someone had a thesis handly at hand for publication.
~*~ No, the reason that you tout it is your conscience an
stand it better then Life from Life. - Ron Stringfellow
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: David Rice
Sub: drop them from airplanes
Date: 18 Jan 94 09:29:43
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 0907ea74
REPLY: 1:124/9005.0 2d2af8ac
PID: FM 2.02
dr> fundy: The scientists drop them from airplanes.
FR> Now we know why someone thinks there are fossils in the
FR> stratosphere.
dr> What ever DID happen to Ron, anyhow? I had uploaded the facts on
dr> radiometric dating, and how we know how old Earth is, to the BBS
dr> he uses, and he vanished. Hard disk failure?
Hard dick failure. He was rather badly deflated after being so soundly
debunk
ed -- yet - one - more - time. It _is_ very mysterious how claimants fall
"un
expectedly" silent when presented with immutable evidence to the contrary.
I
think it was RC who called it the "Cricket Effect."
FR> What we've got here is - failure to communicate. - Cool Hand Luke
dr> "What we have heah, is a failure to duck bullets." --- Warden
Sometimes having nothing is a really cool hand.
~*~ But when judgement is cast down upon you ... don't forget to get out
your calculator and convert the temperature in hell from Celsius to Ranki
n
units. - David (Christian Soldier)
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: David Rice
Sub: THE FACT AND THEORY OF EVOLUTION
Date: 18 Jan 94 09:33:00
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 0907ea75
REPLY: 1:124/9005.0 2d2af8b8
PID: FM 2.02
FR> "'While standing under the water canopy, Martin Goldberg
FR> said dryly?'"
dr> It took me -DAYS- to think of that one. Marty was coming up with
dr> new and witty ones every day. The problem with Marty's is, one
dr> has to look up the words in a geology text book to see if it's
dr> funny or not.
It's a good one! I thought of one about geology and cracks but had to discard
it as being __too__ vulgar for the family educational forum we all know
and
love as "HolySmoke."
I later came up with:
"Marty Liepzig, a geologist to a fault, said:"
But that stunk rather highly to heaven.
But I __did__ come up with a good "Origin for Jesus," I think.
~*~ What we've got here is - failure to communicate. - Cool Hand Luke
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: David Rice
Sub: Religion of Dan
Date: 18 Jan 94 09:49:51
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 09098fcc
REPLY: 1:124/9005.0 2d2af916
PID: FM 2.02
dr> and_Other_Essays_ on cassette tape. He suggests that all that was
dr> required for the universe to form was the physics behind the
dr> Uncertainty Principle. I can't a clue what he's talking about.
dr> When imaginary time is used, particles can form by borrowing
dr> matter from the future. The mass of the universe is in effect
dr> ZERO. This seems rather farfetched to me, but would Prof. Hawking
dr> lie to us?!
Virtual particles are _required_ to describe the perterbations and 'missing'
d
ecays of particles, if I read the material correctly. They exist only so
long
as to perterb or interact with other particles to describe the decay tracks
i
n experiments. Mathematically, virtual particles are required. Experimentally
, virtual particles are evidenced.
(At one of the sites here I create 'virtual totes' to carry goods mathematical
ly around the system when I detect a carton no one told my software about.
It
exists for a time and then recombines with itself when the software finds
out
where the container belongs.)
And the decay of a proton is exactly equal to the decay of a neutron with
the
time-line reversed. If the number of protons equal the number of neutrons,
it
could very well be that the mass of the universe is zero.
(BTW: I added a cartiovascular(sp!) system to one of my projects -- two
heart
s and named-pipes to carry 'blood.' On the multi-processor platform, I
run OS
/2 on one processor, DOS on another, and ladder-logic on the third. To
know i
f either processor had died (suffered a heart attack,) I run a thread under
OS
/2 to simulate a beating heart and I expect the ladder processor to provide
a
pulse. If either fail, I slowly drip blood on the screen with the cryptic
mes
sage, "LADDER HAS DIED!" If the processor is restarted, I run a routine
call
ed "reanimate_zombie_goon()" which mops up the blood and removes the message.)
~*~ Look at that mama; she's got it sticking in the
camera! Man.... I wish I had some - D.S.
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: David Rice
Sub: If Star Goat doesn't exist, create It
Date: 18 Jan 94 09:51:48
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 09098fcd
REPLY: 1:124/9005.0 2d2af916
PID: FM 2.02
Oh! I almost forgot. I also make sure Star Goat exists.
In order to know that my project is not currently running on a system so
that
I don't end up with more than one copy running under OS/2, I try to open
the n
amed-queue "StarGoat."
If StarGoat exists, I know I'm running somewhere on the computer so I bail.
if
StarGoat does not exist, I create StarGoat and then allow the program to
cont
inue to run.
~*~ Shit, gotta run. there's data that needs to be faked.
- Martin Goldberg
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: David Rice
Sub: Selfish Gene, Sidebar
Date: 18 Jan 94 10:45:41
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 090abee5
REPLY: 1:124/9005.0 2d2af8e6
PID: FM 2.02
dr> Wearing only shoes and very brief briefs, I rubbed the ashes
dr> of my campfile over my body and in my hair to mask my smell,
Did you stick a rabbit bone in your beard?
~*~ If I do not have a valid argument, why do you
refuse to answer my question? - Steve Bedard
---
* Origin: Reality's a bitch. (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Joe Savelli
Sub: Well Folks....
Date: 18 Jan 94 11:15:27
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 090b09dc
REPLY: 1:133/208.0 2d2a2afc
PID: FM 2.02
js> Steve, don't you think that anyone has
js> the right to defend himself/herself.
So your hatred of fags is merely 'defending yourself," is it?
js> I did not fight the man because I hated him. I fought him
js> because he was trying to harm me.
No you didn't. It is a fantasy that took place in your mind.
js> Notice that I didn't turn him in to the MP's.
No one ever does when they make it all up. Witness the dismal (and laughable)
lack of any criminal charges ever brought against self-professed "satanists"
who claim they've murdered babies. Your claim is just like theirs: quite
sim
ply, it (and your man getting arrested for praying) simply never happened.
You didn't file a complaint because you know you're lieing.
js> He would have ended up in the stockade
js> for 20 years if I had done that.
Another latent homosexual speaks out. Your claim is incorrect. The guy
or ga
l would have been ejected from the service for coming onto your advances,
not
"locked up for 20 years" as you would like to dream about.
js> I felt at the time that a person should always show mercy in
js> victory. Even though at the time I was NOT a Christian.
You're no Christian now, either. You're an abomination to Christians, Joe.
~*~ Once more: your question is stupid, and I will not answer it.
- Jesse C. Jones
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Joe Savelli
Sub: Wait a minute...
Date: 18 Jan 94 11:17:07
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 090b09dd
REPLY: 1:133/208.0 2d2a2c14
PID: FM 2.02
js> I don't hate homosexuals.
Yes you do else you would not be concocting stories about "we want your
childr
en! we want your children!"
Your hatred is generated by Christian ideologies, Joe. We know it. You
know
it. And we know that you know it. You're a homophobic latent, that's all.
~*~ And I can't be holding to what you got when all you got is hurt - U2
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Marilyn Burge
Sub: Aids Kills
Date: 18 Jan 94 11:18:54
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 090b09de
REPLY: 1:105/40.3 34f4fb72
PID: FM 2.02
#include Greg Nienaltowski
GN> I'd say it takes at LEAST a lot of GUTS to be sure there is no
GN> God, if not faith...
mb> Pascal's Wager. I'd know it anywhere.
Greg may think that we've never heard the fallacy before.
mb> ... Total lack of ethics? Become a Christian lawyer!
Neat! As for me, I want to have Steve Winter's baby!
~*~ For the most part, atheists simply do not do good and ethical things.
-- Jesse C. Jones (the fundy has no clothes)
---
* Origin: I want to have Steve Winter's baby (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Styx Allum
Sub: Tag: HOLIER_BIBLE was Added.
Date: 18 Jan 94 11:37:59
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 090b09e2
REPLY: 1:152/20@fidonet 008ca44f
PID: FM 2.02
>> Tagname: HOLIER_BIBLE Area Key: HLRBBL
>> Title: HOLIER_BIBLE
>> Description: HOLIER_BIBLE was created due to the great number of
>> false Christian scum echos, such as HOLY_BIBLE,
>> which are spreading false doctrine and are forcing
>> people to worship false gods.
>> Origin: 1:250/820
>> Distribution: Private
I get this feeling that the EchoList is becoming a new battle
ground
for warring Christian factions (though some may call it scum.)
One thing I thought about... Expect network mail.
~*~ NAH NAH NNNah nah.... - Joe Savelli
---
* Origin: The Skeptic Tank, Holland, tilting at windmills (1:102/890)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Styx Allum
Sub: We got us a new one!
Date: 18 Jan 94 11:50:35
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 090baa23
REPLY: 1:152/20@fidonet 01963f61
PID: FM 2.02
#include James Conbadly
jc> BTW: I am saving your quote to show to my Doctor friends (hehehehehe)
sa> Lemme guess... proctologists? Osteolaryncolonists?
Psychologist. This is the one that claims untraviolet light mutates people.
~*~ Furthermore, if evolution were true, evolution would be natural.
There weren't chemist and biologists around 3000 million years
ago to direct it. - Bruce Willis
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: John Musselwhite
Sub: Circular...
Date: 18 Jan 94 12:01:15
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 090baa24
REPLY: 1:134/67 2d294ae6
PID: FM 2.02
AN> in fact, if there is any anitchrists,
AN> you are most definitely one of them!
I'm working on it.
AN> sorry that your involvement with Christianity failed you. I'm sorry
AN> that you never receiveed the blessing you once tried in vain to grasp.
jm> Tried in vain to grasp?
jm> I'd like to hear Fredric's answer to this one...
The poor individual seems to be of the opinion that everyone else is rather
li
ke him in reguards to his belief in the Christian stories. If you didn't
see
my rather lengthy reply, let me know? I'll search for it.
Of course the individual has mysteriously grown silent.
~*~ We are all in need of salvation. I may not know you, but knowing you
are an atheist, I know you need to be saved. It must be extremely
difficult to be an atheist? - Scott Shiflett, HolySmoke
---
* Origin: * Origin: MARSUPIAL, NETWORK! Pouching youths for Jesus! (1:102/890
)
ÿ
--------
From: Fredric Rice
To: Kirby Nixon
Sub: Well? Where did you run off to?
Date: 18 Jan 94 12:23:20
--------
Star:Goat
MSGID: 1:102/890@FidoNet 090baa25
REPLY: 1:134/67.0 2d2a7f96
PID: FM 2.02
FR> May Star Goat smile good fortune upon you, Kirby.
kn> May the hair on your butt, transmute onto your head. Praise Dopefish.
FR> after being so badly dismembered; rather he's a Steve Winter who would
FR> watch for a reason to file a policy complaint if only the hurtful
FR> infidels would say something actionable.
FR> Is he just as rabid in his zealotry as ever?
kn> More so! But he's been a good little fundy of late.
I can well imagine merely by the network mail that gets forwarded to this
lap
top in Holland. It's like there is but one crazed individual using multiple
n
ames and posting from different sites around the United States. Martin
Riley,
Jesse C. Jones, Steve Bedard, and Steve Winter may very well be the same
indi
vidual. (Joe Save-lie is just too unique to be part of that pie.)
kn> BTW, did you take out your "modem trash" today? }:-)=
I purge my circular buffers twice a day.
kn> His attempts at flaming usually start off with accusing someone of
kn> telling lies about him behind his back and then digresses to "how old
kn> are you, your so immature, does your mom let you talk that way" kinda
kn> boring stuff.
Neat! Projectionism tyme again! Really choice materials are very much
welcom
e as cross posts to this forum and, of course, to my very own growing (and
gro
aning) archives. This individual offers the promise of being another ticking
tyme bomb and I want to get it all on film.
kn> There was a major flaming war that went on for about two days just
kn> before christmas. ALL DIRECTED AT HIM. I'd say about ten people
kn> tried to carve him up including many of the other so-called
kn> christians and atheists. It was quite entertaining.
Great! A little family entertainment before the Winter Solstice break is
nice
to kind of set the stage for the festivals which follow. It's too bad that
I
don't have a direct copy of all of the messages he and Steve Winter writes.
N
ow _that_ would be worth buying.
kn> John Musselwhite had accepted temporary moderatorship just at that
kn> time and the flaming stopped. I got a major chuckle out of it and
kn> managed to delve into a few classic HolySmokisms to add fuel to the
kn> fire. Didn't get a chance to use "...dung clotted serving spoon"
kn> though. That has to be one of the very best I've ever read anywhere.
I can see how John could restore and maintain order. And, yes, that particula
quote is rather, er, um, well, disgusting? Yes, disgusting _is_ the word
I'm
looking for.
kn> Somebody suggested a new echo all based on whoever got kicked off of
kn> Martins MARANTHA NET BBS. I kinda liked the name "PUNTED_134" and I
kn> may try to start one just for fun. I'm not a sysop though so it may
kn> be difficult.
Great idea! You can always ask SysOps in your area or your BOSS node!
FR> Explosivly venting methane for Jesus.
kn> HAHAHAHA !! I've got to add that one to my file.
Yep:
kn> + Origin: FLATULENT NETWORK: EXPLOSIVELY VENTING METHANE FOR JESUS!
Let me know how that one works out when the poor individual in question
manage
s to see it -- before hitting that ever-popular faith-saving "next" key.
FR> Guys like him think we've never seen the mythologies before. More:
FR> Guys like him think they're actually read.
kn> One guy in our echo took him on after Martin posted some
kn> tracts and they were debunked to some extent.
Wow. Putting up the effort to debunk the same stuff over and over again
is ti
me consuming and something of a I can well imagine how successful
such
an undertaking was:
kn> I never read them - of course. Come to think of it Martin
kn> just whimpered *again* when called to task for his spewage
kn> and sulked away.
Neat! Love! It! The poor guy's last comment in HolySmoke (the Family
Educa
tional Forum) was "I wonder if a policy complaint might do it." That was
in r
esponse to my putting "MARANANTHA, NETWORK! KILLING FOR JESUS!" at the
end of
my message -- something like that.
There have been about 40 or 50 variations on the theme.
FR> At times they'll express
FR> bewilderment that the myths didn't convert the infidels on the spot.
Mouth a-gape... "Why are you not begging for salvation now?"
FR> Yet how many infidels know the Christian mythologies better?
FR> What we like to do is to rework the myths into something a great deal
FR> more entertaining. That usually cures a mythology-poster quickly when
FR> they see their myths easilly defiled.
kn> Some of the debunking that goes on here is really a riot. I might
kn> post some of his junk here somewhere along the line just for a laugh.
It is, first and foremost, an educational forum. The entertainment is somethi
ng of a side-effect, I believe.
kn> He has another one of the sheep from his BBS right now posting some
kn> incredible junk which I have crossposted here about Noah's ark,
kn> dinosaurs etc. (perhaps you've read it).
FR> Of course I did! And thank you ever so much!
kn> Ian Coles has disappeared already and Martin has reappeared once
kn> again under the protection of anybody flaming him being "punted".
Anyone asking him to back up his occult claims will be ran from.
kn> I invited him here *again* but of course he's cowering
kn> in fear at the heathens bequest of attendance.
Yeah? I sent him some messages __begging__ him to come back and save us
all f
rom ourselves. Silly me. I though he was serious in his attempts as doing
so
the first time. I must conclude that he hasn't the faith required to drive
t
hese particular deamons out of the better educate -- seeing as how the brains
must be removed, of course.
kn> I might post some stuff about the church that he goes to called
kn> Truth Tabernacle. Apparently his bran